
Class JJIM^IL. 
BMkJxSJJic- 



R E POR T 



jf^7 



THE SELECT COMMITTEE 



HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 



APPOINTED UNDER THE 



RESOLUTION OF JANUARY 6, 1873, 



TO MAKE INQUIRY IN RELATION TO 



THE AFFAIRS OF THE UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD COMPANY, THE 

CREDIT MOBILIER OF AMERICA, AND OTHER MATTERS 

SPECIFIED IN SAID RESOLUTION AND IN 

OTHER RESOLUTIONS REFERRED 

TO SAID COMMITTEE. 



WASHINGTON: 

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE, 
1873. 






0. of 0. 



42d Congress, » HOUSE OF BEPBESENTATIYES. ( Eepoet 
3d Session. f \ No. 78. 



AFFAIES OF THE UNION PACIFIC EAILEOAD COMPANY. 



February 20, 1873. — Ordered to be printed and recommitted. 



Mr. JEEEMIAH M. Wilson, from the Select Committee (No. 2) on the 
Credit Mobilier, &c., made the following 

REPORT: 

[To accompany bill H. E. 4031.] 

The select committee appointed under the resolution of the House of Jan- 
uary 6, 1873, to make inquiry in relation to the affairs of the Union Pa- 
cific Railroad Company, the Credit Mobilier of America, and other mat- 
ters specified in said resolution and in other resolutions referred to said 
committee, note submit to the House the following report as to a portion 
of the matters therein : 

By the statutes of July 1, 1862, and July 2, 1864, which, for most of 
the purposes of this discussion, may be treated as a single act, Congress 
created a corporation to be known as the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany, with authority to construct and maintain a railroad and telegraph 
from a point on the one hundredth meridian of longitude west from 
Greenwich to the western boundary of Nevada Territory, upon a route 
and on the terms specified, there to connect with another road largely 
endowed by the Government, so as to form a continuous line of railroad 
from the Missouri Eiver to the navigable waters of the Sacramento 
Eiver in California, and thereby to unite the railroad system of the 
Eastern States with that of California, strengthen the bonds of union 
between the Atlantic and Pacific coasts, develop the immense resources 
of the great central portion of the North American continent, and cre- 
ate a new route for commerce from the Atlantic and Europe to the Pa- 
cific and Asia. By an act passed July 3, 1866, the company was authorized 
to locate and construct its road from Omaha, in Nebraska, without refer- 
ence to the original initial point at the one hundredth meridian. iTo aid 
in accomplishing these vast results, the corporation was clothed by the 
Government with a proportionally vast endowment. The right of way 
through the public land, the Government undertaking to remove all 
Indian titles, for a space of two hundred feet in width on each side of 
its entire route ; the right of eminent domain to appropriate necessary 
private land-space for depots, turnouts, &c. j public lands to the amount 
of ten alternate sections per mile within the limits of twenty miles on 
each side of said road, were given to this corporation. 

It was further provided that upon the certificate of three commis- 
sioners, appointed by the President, of the completion and equipment 
of every section of twenty consecutive miles of said railroad and tele- 
graph in accordance with the provisions of the act, the Secretary of 
the Treasury should issue to the corporation bonds of the United States 
of $1,000 each, payable in thirty years after date, with interest at the 
rate of 6 per cent, per annum, payable semi-annually, to the amount 



II CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

of $16,000 per mile for a portion thereof, and $32,000 per mile for a por- 
tion, and $48,000 per mile for a portion. These bonds were to be a loan 
to the corporation. To secure their repayment the act of 1862 provides 
that their issue shall, ipso facto, constitute a first mortgage on the 
whole property of the company. This lien was, by the act of 1864, sub- 
ordinated to a mortgage executed by the corporation to secure its own 
bonds for an amount equal to the amount issued by the Government, 
as aforesaid. Pursuant to these provisions, the company has received 
from the Government bonds to the amount of $27^236,512, and has 
issued its own bonds to the amount of $27,213,000. "TThe corporation 
has also received, by patents issued, 654,419 acres of the public lands, 
leaving about 11,345,580 acres, not yet patented, embraced in the 
grant. It has issued bonds, called land-grant bonds, to the amount of 
$10,400,000. These land grant bonds are secured by a deed of trust 
executed to John Duff and Cyrus McOormick, covering all the lands 
embraced in the grant. 

It has also issued what are called income bonds to the amount of 
$9,355,000. These bonds are secured by a pledge of the income of the 
road to three trustees, Benjamin E. Bates, John E. Duff, and F. 
Gordon Dexter. It has also issued stock to the amount of $36,762,300. 
It has also taken possession of and is enjoying the land needed for its 
way, turnouts, stations, &c. 

It will thus be seen that all that the Government stipulated to do in 
aid of this enterprise has been done. 

The aid thus afforded by the Government was accompanied with pre- 
cise directions as to the proceedings of those to whom it was intrusted, 
and Congress endeavored to provide sufficient safeguards to secure the 
faithful performance of their trust. It was provided that tbe capital 
stock should be paid in in money. In relation to this the act is emphatic 
and unmistakable. There were to be ten directors, each of whom must 
be the oonafide owner of five shares of the capital stock. The act of 
1862 provided that the shares should be of the par value of $1,000 each, 
of which not more than two hundred should be owned by any one per- 
son. This was changed by the act of 1864, so that the shares might be 
held in small quantities, and the par value was fixed at one hundred in- 
stead of one thousand dollars. Both acts provided that the stock 
should be actually paid in full in money, in assessments of not less than 
5 per cent., at such intervals, not to exceed six months, as should be 
determined by the directors. 

The interests of the Government were to be especially protected by 
five Government directors appointed by the President, one of whom 
should be a member of every standing and special committee. Annual 
reports were required to be made to the Secretary of the Treasury, set- 
ting forth the names and residence of the stockholders and officers, the 
amount of stock subscribed, the amount of stock paid in, the indebted- 
ness of the road, and its receipts. The claim of the Government to a 
reimbursement for the loan of its bonds was secured by a second mort- 
gage or lien upon the road ; by the obligation to apply at least 5 per 
cent, of the net earnings after the road is finished thereto j and when- 
ever the net earnings of the road amounted to 10 per cent, of the cost, 
Congress reserved the right to legislate for the reduction of the fares ; 
and, if unreasonable in amount, to fix and establish the same by law ; 
and further reserved the power, having due regard to the rights of the 
corporation, to add to, alter, amend, or repeal the act. 

The purpose of the whole act was expressly declared to be "to pro- 
mote the public interest and welfare by the construction of said railroad 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. Ill 

and telegraph line, and keeping the same in working order, and to 
secure to the Government at all times, but particularly in time of war, 
the use and benefit of the same for postal, military, and other purposes." 

Your committee cannot doubt that it was the purpose of Congress in 
all this to provide for something more than a mere gift of so much land, 
and a loan of so many bonds on the one side, and the construction and 
equipment of so many miles of railroad and telegraph on the other. 

The United States was not a mere creditor, loaning a sum of money 
upon mortgage. The railroad corporation was not a mere contractor, 
bound to furnish a specified structure and nothing more. The law cre- 
ated a body politic and corporate, bound, as a trustee, so to manage this 
great public franchise and endowments that not only the security for 
the great debt due the United States should not be impaired, but so that 
there should be ample resources to perform its great public duties in 
time of commercial disaster and in time of war. 

This act was not passed to further the personal interests of the cor- 
porators, nor for the advancement of commercial interests, nor for the 
convenience of the general public alone ; but in addition to these the 
interests, present and future, of the Government, as such, were to be 
subserved. A great highway was to be created, the use of which for 
postal, military, and other purposes was to be secured to the Govern- 
ment " at all times," but particularly in time of war. Tour committee 
deem it important to call especial attention to this declared object of 
this act, to accomplish which object the munificent grant of lands and 
loan of the Government credit was made. To make such a highway, 
and to have it ready at " all times," and i£ particularly in time of war," 
to meet the demands that might be made upon it ; to be able to with- 
stand the loss of business and other casualties incident to war and still 
to perform for the Government such reasonable service as might under 
such circumstances be demanded, required a strong solvent corporation, 
and when Congress expressed the object and granted the corporate 
powers to carry that object into execution, and aided the enterprise 
with subsidies of lands and bonds, the corporators in whom these 
cowers were vested and under whose control these subsidies were placed 
were, in the opinion of your committee, under the highest moral, to say 
nothing of legal or equitable obligations, to use the utmost degree of 
good faith toward the Government in the exercise of the powers and 
disposition of the subsidies. 

Congress relied for the performance of these great trusts by the cor- 
porators upon their sense of public duty ; upon the fact that they were 
to deal with and protect a large capital of their own which they were 
to pay in in money; upon the presence of five directors appointed by 
the President especially to represent the public interests, who were to 
own no stock ; one of whom should be a member of every committee, 
standing or special; upon commissioners to be appointed by the Presi- 
dent, who should examine and report upon the work as it progressed; 
in certain cases upon the certificate of the chief engineer, to be made 
upon his professional honor ; and lastly, upon the reserved power to 
add to, alter, amend, or repeal the act. 

Your committee find themselves constrained to report that the moneys 
borrowed by the corporation, under a power given them, only to inee* 
the necessities of the construction and endowment of the road, havo 
been distributed in dividends, among the corporators; that the stock 
was issued, not to men who paid for it at par in money, but who paid 
for it at not more than 30 cents on the dollar in road making ; that of 
the Government directors some of them have neglected their duties and 



IV CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

others have been interested in the transactions by which the provisions 
of the organic law have been evaded ; that at least one of the commis- 
sioners appointed by the President has been directly bribed to betray 
his trust by the gift of $25,000 ; that the chief engineer of the road was 
largely interested in the contracts for its construction ; and that there 
has been an attempt to prevent the exercise of the reserved power in 
Congress by inducing influential members of Congress to become inter- 
ested in the profits of the transaction. So that of the safeguards above 
enumerated none seems to be left but the sense of public duty of the 
corporators. 

Your committee, therefore, proceed to report the facts as they have 
been able to gather them from the evidence, relative to the manner in 
which the parties in whom these trusts were reposed have discharged 
them, and the consequences which have followed. 

By reference to the first section of the act of 1862, it will be seen 
that a subscription of $2,000,000, two thousand shares of $1,000 each, 
and the payment of ten per cent, thereon, was a condition-precedent to 
organization. 

The sum of about $2,180,000 was subscribed, and ten per cent, (about 
$218,000) paid in, and thereupon, in October, 1863, the company was 
organized by the election of a board of directors, &c. 

The first contract for the construction of the road was made with one 
H. M. Hoxie, who seems to have been a person of little pecuniary respon- 
sibility. His proposal to build and equip one hundred miles of the rail- 
road and telegraph is dated New York, August 8, 1864, signed H. M. 
Hoxie, by H. C. Crane, attorney. It was accepted by the company Sep- 
tember 23, 1864. On the 30th of September, 1864, Hoxie agreed to 
( / assign this contract to Thomas C. Durant, who was then vice-president 
and director of the Union I^aciScTJailFoad Company, or sucE parties as 
he might designate. On the 4th of October, 1864, this contract was 
extended to the one hundredth meridian, an additional one hundred 
and forty-six and forty-five hundredths miles, the agreement for exten- 
sion being signed by Crane as attorney of Hoxie. Hoxie was an employe 
of the company at the time, and Mr. Crane, who signed as Hoxie's attor- 
ney, wasDurant's " confidential man," as Durant himself expresses it. 

By this contract and its extension Hoxie agreed to build two hundred 
and "forty-six and forty-five hundredths miles of road, to furnish money 
on the securities of the company, to subscribe $1,000,000 to the capital 
stock, and he was to receive $50,000 per mile for the work. 

On the 11th day of October, 1364, an agreement was entered into by 
Durant, Bushnell, Lambard, McConib, all directors of the Union Pacific 
Bailroad Company, and Gray, a stockholder, to take from Hoxie 
the assignment of his contract, (which assignment he had previouly 
bound himself to make to such persons as Durant should designate,) 
and to contribute $1,600,000 for the purpose of carrying the contract 
out. 

This Hoxie contract and its assignment were a device by which the 
persons who were the active managers and controllers of the Union 
Pacific Bailroad Company caused said corporation to make a contract 
with themselves for the construction of a portion of its road, by which 
also they got possession of all the resources which it would be entitled 
to by the completion of said portion, and by which they evaded, or 
sought to evade, the requirement that the, capital stock should be fully 
paid in in money, by substituting for such payment a fictitious or nom- 
inal payment in road building and equipment, each share being treated 
as being worth much less than its par value. That this was the sub- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. V 

stance of the transaction will more fully appear when we come to speak 
of a subsequent arrangement of the sairie nature, bat on a larger scale. 

That in making this contract the interests of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company were utterly disregarded, your committee do not doubt. 
That it was deliberately done we do not hesitate to believe. That be- 
lief is founded upon the following summary of the evidence in addition 
to the facts heretofore stated. 

Peter A. Dey, esq., then the engineer-in-chief, testifies that before this 
contract was made he had surveyed and estimated the one <hundred miles 
embraced in it, and that upon a full estimate he made the cost not to ex- 
ceed $30,000 per mile ; that after this Mr. Eeed, an agent and director 
of the company, came there and directed him to make a larger estimate, 
putting heavy embankments where none were required, which he did, 
making an estimate of about $50,000 per mile. When the Hoxie con- 
tract was submitted to him he objected to it, and when he found that 
it was to be executed and the work done under it, he resigned his posi- 
tion as chief engineer, as appears from the following written resignation 
and private letter addressed to the president of the company : 

Engineer's Office, Union Pacific Railroad, 

Omaha, December 7, 1864. 
Dear Sir : I hereby tender you my resignation as chief engineer of the Union Pa- 
cific Railroad, to take effect December 30, 1864, one year from the date of my appoint- 
ment. I am induced to delay until that time that I might combine the results of sur- 
veys of the present year and present them to the company and to myself in a satisfac- 
tory manner. My reasons for this step are simply that I do not approve of the contract 
made with Mr. Hoxie for building the first hundred miles from Omaha west, and I do 
not care to have my name so connected with the railroad that I shall appear to indorse 
this contract. 

Wishing for the road success beyond the expectation of its members, I am, respect- 
fully, yours, 

PETER A. DEY. 
Hon. John A. Dix. 

Mr. Dey further testified as follows : 

Question. Did you send the letter of which this is a copy to General Dix ? . 
Answer. 1 did. 

Q. Was your resignation accepted? 
A. Not that I know of. 

Q. Did you write any other letter to General Dix ? 

A. On the same day that I wrote the letter I have just read to you I wrote and in- 
closed in the same envelope the following : 

Omaha, December 7, 1864. 
Dear Sir : With this I send you my resignation as chief engineer of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company. My reasons I have given. I received the contract nearly 
a month ago. When I first read it I felt that it was made against my known views, 
and I could not be held in any measure responsible for it, but it has since been a con- 
stantly recurring subject of thought to me, and I am not now satisfied that I shall be 
able to acquit myself of all blame if I become an instrument of its execution. You 
know the history of the M. and M. road, a road that to-day could be running to this 
point if its stock and bonds only represented the amount of cash that actually went 
into it. My views of the Pacific Railroad are perhaps peculiar. I look upon its man- 
agers as trustees of the bounty of Congress. I cannot willingly see them repeat the 
history of the M. and M. by taking a step in the incipiency of the project that will, I 
believe, if followed out, swell the cost of construction so much that by the time 
the work reaches the mountains the representative capital will be accumulated so 
much that at the very time when the company will have need for all its resources, as 
well of capital as of credit, its securities will not be negotiable in the market. From 
my boyhood I have associated Mr. Cisco and yourself with Mr. Bronson and Mr. Flagg, 
men whose integrity, purity, and singleness of purpose have made them marked men 
in the generation in which they lived. Of course my opinion remains unchanged. 
You are doubtless uninformed how disproportionate the amount to be paid is to the 
work contracted for. I need not expatiate upon the sincerity of my course when you 



VI CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

reflect upon the fact that I have resigned the best position in my profession this coun- 
try has ever offered to any man. 
With respect, 

PETER A. DEY. 

The parties above named having procured the assignment to them- 
selves of this contract, were liable individually as partners for all debts 
incurred in the joint undertaking. They therefore took steps to pro- 
cure corporate powers as a shield against such risk, and secured for 
that purpose the control of a corporation afterward known as the Credit 
Mobilier of America. The following is a brief history of the cor- 
poration : 

On the 1st day of November, 1859, the State of Pennsylvania granted 
a charter for the incorporation of the Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency. That 
charter gave powers of so extraordinary a character that your commit- 
tee deem it important to insert it here in full. It is as follows : 

An act to incorporate the Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency. 

Section 1. Be it enacted by the senate and house of representatives of the Commonwealth 
of Pennsylvania in general assembly met, and it is hereby enacted by the authority of the 
same, That Samuel J. Reeves, Ellis Lewis, Garrick Mallory, Duff Green, David R. Por- 
ter, Jacob Ziegler, Charles M. Hall, Horn R. Kneass, Robert J. Ross, William T. 
Dougherty, Isaac Hugus, C. M. Reed, William Workman, Asa Packer, Jesse Lazear, C. 
S. Kauffman, C. L. Ward, and Henry M. Fuller be, and they are hereby, appointed 
commissioners to receive subscriptions and to organize a company, by the name and 
style of the Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency ; and the owners of the shares herein author- 
ized to be issued, when the company is organized, shall, under the name and style 
aforesaid, have perpetual succession ; and may purchase, hold, and acquire, by any 
lawful means, estate, real and personal, and the same may use, sell, lease, let, mort- 
gage, transfer, and convey, and otherwise dispose of; and may sue and be sued, plead 
and be impleaded, contract and be contracted with, and have and use a common seal, 
and the same may change at pleasure ; and may make by-laws and regulations for the 
government of their affairs, and may have and use all the rights, powers, and privi- 
leges which are or may be necessary for them to have as a company incorporated for the 
purposes herein stated : Provided, That the said company shall not at any time hold, 
in this State, more land than may be requisite for the convenient transaction of their 
business. 

Sec. 2. That the purpose of this act is to organize an incorporated company, and to 
authorize them, as such, to become an agency for the purchase and sale of railroad 
bonds and other securities, and to make advances of money and of credit to railroad 
and other improvement companies, and to aid in like manner contractors and manu- 
facturers, and to authorize them as a company to make all requisite contracts, and es- 
pecially to receive and hold, on deposit and in trust, estate, real and personal, including 
the notes, bonds, obligations, and accounts of States, and of individuals, aud of com- 
panies, and of corporations, and the same to purchase, collect, adjust, and settle, and 
also to sell and dispose thereof in any market in the United States, or elsewhere, with- 
out proceeding in law or in equity, and for such price and on such terms as may be 
agreed on between them and the parties contracting with them, and also to indorse and 
guarantee the payment of the bonds and the performance of the obligations of individ- 
uals, of corporations, and of companies. 

Sec. 3. That the capital stock of said company shall consist of fifty thousand shares 
of $100 each ; and the commissioners aforesaid, or a majority of them, may, in person 
or by proxy, open books of subscription at such times and places as they deem expe- 
dient, and when five thousand shares shall have been subscribed, and rive per cent, 
thereon shall have been paid in, the shareholders may elect five or more directors ; and 
the directors of the said company, when it shall have been organized, may, and they 
are hereby authorized and empowered to have and to exercise, in the name and in be- 
half of the company, all the rights, powers, and privileges which are intended to be 
herein given ; and may, from time to time, increase their resources by borrowing money 
on a pledge of their property, or without such pledge, or by new subscriptions, not ex- 
ceeding fifty thousand shares ; and any citizen or subject, company or corporation, of 
any State or county, may subscribe for, purchase, and hold shares of the said company 
with all the rights and subject only to such liabilities as other shareholders are subject 
to ; which liabilities are no more than for the payment to the company of the sums due 
or to become due on the shares held by them ; and when new subscriptions are made, 
the shares may be issued at par or sold for the benefit of the holders of the shares here- 
tofore issued. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. VII 

Sec. 4. That the by-laws shall prescribe the manner in which the officers and agents 
of the company shall be chosen, and designate their powers and duties, and their 
terms of service and compensation ; and the principal office of the company shall be 
in Philadelphia, but the directors, under such rules and regulations as they may pre- 
scribe, may establish branches and agencies in Europe and elsewhere, and may deal in 
exchange, foreign and domestic; but the said company shall not exercise the privilege 
of banking, nor issue their own notes or bills to be used as bank-notes or as currency. 
Sec. 5. That three-fifths of the directors of the said company shall be citizens of the 
United States, and the majority of the whole shall reside in this State. 

Sec. 6. That the said company shall pay to the State treasurer, for the use of the 
State, a bonus of one-half of one per cent, on the sum requisite to be paid in previous 
to the organization, payable in four equal annual installments, the first payment to be 
made in one year after the payment on the capital stock shall be made, and also a like 
bonus on all subsequent payments on account of the capital stock of the said company, 
or any increase thereof, payable in like manner ; and, in addition to such bonus, shall 
pay such tax upon dividends exceeding six per cent, per annum as is or may be im- 
posed by law. 

W. C. A. LAWRENCE, 
Sj>eaker of the House of Representatives. 
JNO. CRESVVELL, Jr., 

Speaker of the Senate. 
Approved the first day of November, anno Domini, one thousand eight hundred and 
fifty-nine. 

WM. F. PACKER. 

On the 3d day of March, 1864, Thomas 0. Dnrant, vice-president of 
the Union Pacific Railroad Coinpauy, purchased this charter for the 
purpose of using the corporation for the construction of the Union 
Pacific Railroad. 

On the 26th day of March, 1864, by an act of the legislature of the 
State of Pennsylvania, the name was changed to " The Credit Mobilier 
of America." 

By the terms of purchase of the charter, an agency was to be estab- 
lished in the city of New York, and when the subscription was made it 
was upon the condition that the full powers of the board of directors 
should be delegated to the New York agency, and that a railway bureau 
should be established at said agency, of five managers, three to be di- 
rectors of the company, (afterward changed to seven managers,) who 
should have the management of railway contracts, subject to the appro- 
val of the president. By these means this Pennsylvania corporation, 
so far as the management of its affairs was concerned, substantially 
expatriated itself, and, clothed with the extraordinary powers acquired 
from the State of Pennsylvania, it proceeded to take upon itself the 
control of the Union Pacific Railroad Company in the manner following : 

It purchased the outstanding stock of that corporation, amounting 
to about $2,180,000, on which about $218,000 had been paid to the railroad 
company, the Credit Mobilier paying for this stock the amount already 
paid. At the time of this purchase the shares of Union Pacific stock 
were $1,000 each. After the act of 1864 was passed these shares were 
canceled, and a re-issue was made in shares of $100 each. The re-issue 
was made to the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier, and by this pro- 
cess the stockholders of the two corporations were made identical. By 
this meaus the persons who under the guise of a corporation that was 
to take the contract to build the road held complete control of the cor- 
poration for which the road was to be built. 

These things accomplished, they took charge of construction under 
the Hoxie contract, and the portion of the road lying between Omaha 
and the one-hundredth meridian was constructed under it. 

This contract cost the Union Pacific Railroad Company $12, 974, 416 24 

It cost the Credit Mobilier 7,806,183 33 

Profit 5,168,233 91 



VIII CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

This profit is a profit in stock and bonds estimated at par. Their 
actnal value will appear hereafter. 

The next event in this history is as follows, and it is stated here to 
show the animus of those who were managing this great trust : 

The Hoxie contract had been completed, finishing the road to the 
one-hundredth meridian, a distance of two hundred and forty-six and 
forty-five hundredths miles. An agreement wasthen made, (November 
10, 1866,) by Thomas 0. Durant, vice-president of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company, with a Mr. Boomer for the construction of one hun- 
dred and fifty -three and thirty-five hundredths miles west from the one- 
hundredth meridian. By the terms of this agreement Boomer was to 
be paid $19,500 per mile for that portion between the one-hundredth 
meridian and the east bank of the North Platte, and for that portion 
lying west of the North Platte within the limits of the agreement 
$20,000 per mile ; the bridge over the North Platte, and station-buildings 
equipment, &c, to be an addditional charge. 

This contract was never ratified by the company, but under it the 
work progressed, and fifty-eight miles of road had been completed and 
accepted by the Government. The books of the company fail to show 
what this fifty-eight miles had cost the company ; but from the best evi- 
dence that could be procured your committee believe that the cost had 
not been to exceed $27,500 per mile for construction and equipment, the 
excess over the contract price being for station-houses, equipment, &c. 
Inasmuch as the charter required that the station-houses, equipment, 
&c, should be built and furnished before acceptance by the Government, 
and inasmuch as the records of the Department show that the fifty-eight 
miles had been accepted, your committee feel warranted in finding that 
this had been done and that the cost of the whole was not to exceed 
$27,500 per mile. But notwithstanding this, on the 5th day of January, 
1867, the board of directors by a resolution extended the Hoxie contract 
over this fifty-eight miles of then completed road, thereby proposing to 
pay to the Credit Mobilier the sum of $22,500 per mile for this fifty-eight 
miles, amounting to the sum of $1,345,000, without any consideration 
whatever. 

The following is the resolution of date January 5, 1867 : 

Resolved, That the Union Pacific Railroad Company will, and do hereby, consider 
the Hoxie contract extended to the point already completed, namely, three hundred 
and five miles west from Omaha, and that the officers of this company are hereby au- 
thorized to settle with the Credit Mobilier at $50,000 per mile for the additional fifty- 
eight miles. 

That it was proposed to give the Credit Mobilier this profit, if that is 
the proper word to be used in such a connection, is verified by the fact 
that subsequently the sum of $1,104,000 was paid to the Credit Mo- 
bilier on account of this fifty-eight miles, for the construction of which 
it never had even the semblance of a contract. Of this $1,104,000 fur- 
ther mention will be made hereafter. 

Against this proposition Dr. Durant filed the following protest : 

To the board of directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company : 

Gentlemen : I protest against the passage of the resolution appearing on your min- 
utes as passed January 5, 1867, purporting to treat and consider the Hoxie contract as 
extended to the point already completed, namely, three hundred and five miles west of 
Omaha, and authorizing the officers of the company to settle with the Credit Mobilier 
at $50,000 per mile for the additional fifty-eight miles. . Said resolution was moved and 
adopted while I was absent from the meeting of the board on necessary business of the 
company. I make this protest on the ground that said fifty-eight miles has been con- 
structed at much less cost than $50,000 per mile, and has been accepted by the United 
States Government as complete, and that it was not constructed under the Hoxie con- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. IX 

tract, and that a considerable portion of the cost thereof had been paid by the com- 
pany before the adoption of said resolution, and that said resolution does not provide 
any compensation or advantage to the company by requiring stock subscriptions, or 
stipulations for the construction of additional portions of the company's railroad, or by 
any other means or stipulations whatsoever, but leaves the company to sustain a very 
great and unrequited loss. 
Respectfully, yours, 

THOMAS C. DURANT. 

Durant afterward procured an injunction against this extension of 
the Hoxie contract over this fifty- eight miles. 

The next step was on the 24th day of June, 1867. At this date there 
had been completed and accepted by the Government ninety-eight and 
a quarter miles of road west of the one hundredth meridian, at a cost 
to the railroad company of about $27,500 per mile. Mr. J. M. S. Wil- 
liams then proposed to build and equip two hundred and sixty-sev'en 
and fifty-two hundredths miles west from the one hundredth meridian 
at $50,000 per mile, and his offer was accepted. At the same time he 
proposed to the railroad bureau of the Credit Mobilier to assign that 
contract, if accepted, to that corporation. Here was another attempt to 
give the Credit Mobilier a profit of about $22,500 per mile on constructed 
and accepted road, this time on ninety-eight and a quarter miles. 

Mr. Williams was asked this question with reference to this proposed 
contract : 

Q. Then what purpose had you to propose to build a road that had already been 
built by the company at a cost to them of less than the amount mentioned in your propo- 
sition ? 

A. We were identical in interest. The Credit Mobilier and the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company were the same identical parties. We were building it for ourselves, 
by ourselves, and among ourselves. There was not $20,000 outside interest in it. 

Q. Was this understood at the time ? 

A. Yes, sir. It was understood that we were dealing with ourselves to get the con- 
trol in the right hands. 

The consummation of this project was defeated by legal proceedings 
instituted by Durant. Construction was continued. Durant had de- 
clared that the Credit Mobilier should never have another contract. 

Then a ae\yjlevice was resorted to, which will be explained in what 
follows. 

On the 16th of August, 1867, the "Oakes Ames contract" was entered 
into. At this time one hundred and thirty-eight miles of road had 
been completed and accepted west of the one hundredth meridian, at a 
cost of about $27,000 per mile. The portion of the road embraced in 
this contract began at the one hundredth meridian, and extended west- 
wardly six hundred and sixty-seven miles, and by the terms of the con- 
tract the railroad company was to pay as follows : 

For first 100 miles, $42,000 per mile $4,200,000 

For next 167 miles, 45,000 per mile 7,515,000 

For next 100 miles, 96,000 per mile 9,600,000 

For next 100 miles, 80,000 per mile 8,000,000 

For next 100 miles, 90,000 per mile e 9,000,000 

For next 100 miles, 96,000 per mile 9,600,000 

667 47, 925, 000 



At the time this contract was made there was an understanding that 
it was for the benefit of the shareholders of the Credit Mobilier. Mr. 
Ames was only the medium through whom these shareholders should 
receive the benefits accruing from it. 

By this contract Ames was to be paid nominally in cash, but the actual 



X CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

character of the transaction is disclosed by the. following clause in the 
agreement, namely : 

Eleventh. Payments hereon shall be made to the party of the second part, his heirs, 
executors, administrators, or assigns, in cash ; but if the Government bonds received 
by the company cannot be converted into mouey at their par value net, and the first- 
mortgage bonds of the company at ninety cents on the dollar net, then the said party 
of the second part, his heirs, executors, administrators, and assigns, shall be charged 
hereon the difference between the amount realized and the above -named rates ; pro 
vided the first-mortgage bonds are not sold for less than eighty cents on the dollar 
and if there shall not be realized from the sale of such bonds an amount sufficient tc 
pay the party of the second part, his heirs, executors, administrators, or assigns, for 
work as stipulated in this contract, and according to the terms thereof, then such de-> 
ficiency shall from time to time be subscribed by said party of the second part, his heirs, 
executors, administrators, or assigns, to the capital stock of said company, and proceeds 
of such subscriptions shall be paid to said party of the second part, his heirs, executors, 
administrators, or assigns, on this contract. 

This contract was signed on behalf of the railroad company by Oliver 
Ames, as president pro tempore, who was the brother and business part- 
ner of Oakes Ames $ it was approved by Oliver Ames, 0. S. Bushnell, 
Springer Harbaugh, and Thomas 0. Durant, as executive committee of 
the railroad company, all of whom, excepting Harbaugh, were interested 
in the Credit Mobilier. 

Pursuant to the previous understanding, that this contract was to be 
for the benefit of all the shareholders of the Credit Mobilier, on the loth 
day of October, 1867, it was assigned by a tripartite agreement to seven 
trustees, namely, Thomas C. Durant, Oliver Ames, John B. Alley, 
Sidney Dillon, Cornelius S. Bushnell, Henry S. McComb, and Benjamin 
E. Bates, all stockholders in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company and 
in the Credit Mobilier, Oliver Ames occupying the anomalous position 
of president of the railroad company making the contract, and one of 
the parties to whom it was assigned, and all of them were directors of 
the railroad company. 

The beneficiaries of the contract under this assignment are shown by 
the following extract, namely : 

Fourthly. To hold all the rest and residue of the said proceeds and avails for the use 
and benefit of such of the several persons holding and owning shares in the capital 
stock of the said Credit Mobilier of America on the day of the date hereof, in propor- 
tion to the number of shares which said stockholders now severally hold and own, and 
for the use and benefit of such of the several assignees and holders of such shares of 
stock at the times herein set forth, for the distribution of said residue and remainder 
of said avails and proceeds, who shall comply with the provisions, conditions, and 
limitations herein contained, which are on their part to be complied with. 

Fifthly. To pay over, on or before the first Wednesday of June and December in each 
year, or within thirty days thereafter his just share and proportion of the residue and 
remainder of the said proceeds and avails as shall be justly estimated by the said trus- 
tees to have been made and earned as net profit on said contract during the preceding 
six months, to each shareholder only in said Credit Mobilier of America who, being a 
stockholder in the Union Pacific Railroad, shall have made and executed his power of 
attorney or proxy, irrevocable, to said several parties of the second part, their surviv- 
ors and successors, empowering them, the said parties of the second part, to vote upon 
at least six-tenths of all the shares of stock owned by said shareholders of the Credit 
Mobilier of America in the capital stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company on the 
day of the date hereof, and six-tenths]of any stock in said Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany he may have received as dividend, or otherwise, because or by virtue of having 
been a stockholder in said Credit Mobilier of America, or which may appertain to any 
shares in said Union Pacific Railroad Company which had been so assigned to him at 
the time or times of the distribution of the said profits as herein provided ; and this 
trust is made and declared upon the express condition and limitation that it shall not 
inure in any manner or degree to the use or benefit of any stockholder of the Credit 
Mobilier of America who shall neglect or refuse to execute and deliver unto the said 
parties of the second part his proxy or power of attorney, in the manner and for the 
purpose hereinbefore provided, or who shall in any way, or by auy proceeding, know- 
ingly hinder, delay, or interfere with the execution or performance of the trust and 
conditions herein declared and set forth. 



CKEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. XI 

It will be seen by this that, in order to secure any of the proceeds of 
this contract, the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier who owned stock 
in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company were compelled to give an irrev- 
ocable proxy to these seven trustees to vote in all cases six-tenths of 
their railroad stock. 

The stockholders in the two corporations were substantially identical. 
These proxies were executed and delivered to these trustees ; they rep- 
resented a majority of the stock, and by this means the entire control 
of the railroad company passed out of the hands of the stockholders of 
the latter company and was reposed in these seven trustees, and for two 
years they exercised the power thus acquired. 

The management of the affairs of the railroad company during the 
execution of the work under this contract (and the Davis contract here- 
after to be treated of) was under the control of the beneficiaries thereof. 
These trustees, having acquired this power by means of these proxies, 
were manifestly not especially looking after, or proposing in the future 
to very carefully guard the interests of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany. 

If auy one doubts that this railroad company's interests were to be 
disregarded and the interests of the contractors vigilantly cared for, 
that doubt must be speedily dispelled by reading the following agree- 
ment eutered into by these trustees the next day after the Oakes Ames 
contract was assigned to them. It was as follows : 

Memorandum of agreement made this IQth day of October, 1867, between Thomas C. Durani, 
Oliver Ames, John B. Alley, Sidney Dillon, Cornelius S. Bushnell, Henry S. McComb, and 
Benjamin E. Bates, witnesseth as follows : 

The undersigned, being the owners of shares and holders of certain proxies of the 
shareholders of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and expecting hereafter to hoj d 
other shares and proxies for other shares therein, for the protection of our mutual i n- 
terests and the interests of our constituents, do hereby mutually agree each with the 
other, at any and every election of directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, to 
vote upon the shares of stock then standing in our own names respectively, and upon 
such shares as we hold or may hereafter hold proxies therefor for such persons as direct- 
ors of the said Union Pacific Railroad Company as may be nominated at or before each 
annual stockholders' meeting of said company, by a majority of the then existing board 
of directors, not appointed by the President of the United States, and no others. And 
on failure of such nomination for any reason by the said existing board of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company, we then agree to vote for the re-election of the elected mem- 
bers of the then existing board. It is further agreed, that in case any one or more or 
the parties hereto fails or neglects to perform and stand to any of the agreements and 
covenants herein contained, tliat he shall not be entitled to or claim any benefit or 
right under or by virtue of any of the trusts or agreements contained in a certain 
memorandum of agreement heretofore made and concluded by and between Oakes 
Ames of North Easton, Massachusetts, party of the first part, the parties hereto parties 
of the second part, and the Credit Mobilier of America, a party of the third part, bat 
the said shares and. proportion of the said party so in default shall become the property 
of and be divided among the said several remaining parties, for whose benefit said 
trusts in said agreement are declared. 

In witness whereof the said parties have hereunto subscribed their names, this day 
and year first above written. 

OLIVER AMES. 

JOHN B. ALLEY. 

CORNELIUS S. BUSHNELL. 
• SIDNEY DILLON. 

H. S. McCOMB. 

THOMAS C. DURANT. 

B. E. BATES. 



Signed, sealed, and executed in presence of 



CHARLES BELL. 



Comment upon this is unnecessary. It is plain that the men who 
made this contract on the part of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, 



XII CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

through Oakes Ames with themselves, were determined to hold the 
control of the railroad company until their purposes were accomplished. 

In addition to all this, your committee find that the wife of the en- 
gineer-in-chief, General Granville M. Dodge, who was appointed to suc- 
ceed Mr. Dey, whose letter of resignation has been given, was the 
owner of one hundred shares of stock in the Credit Mobilier, which was 
issued in her name when the capital stock of that corporation was 
increased from $2,500,000 to $3,750,000. This stock was paid for origin- 
ally by John Duff, and General Dodge was written to by Mr. Ham, 
secretary of the Credit Mobilier, to forward $10,000 to re-iniburse Duff. 
Whether Dodge paid for this stock with money of his own, or whether 
it was paid for with moneys of his wife, is of little consequence. 
Whether it was the one way or the other, it placed him in a position 
"where his pecuniary interests were adverse to the interests of the rail- 
road company he was representing in this most vital capacity. 

In making this contract the stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany to be subscribed for by the contractors, in pursuance of the elev- 
enth section, above quoted, was deemed worth not more than thirty 
cents to the dollar, and the price of the work was increased accordingly. 
If it had been treated as worth par in cash the price of the work would 
have been lower by the amount of at least 70 per cent, on the par value 
of so much of the stock as was to be subscribed for. The subscription 
was never paid in in money, but checks were taken for amounts due on 
construction, and these checks were passed back by the contractors to 
the railroad company in payment for stock. 

The effect of this is stated by Mr. Oliver Ames in his testimony, as 
follows : 

By Mr. Hoae : 

Q. When these subscriptions were made by the Credit Mobilier trustees to the capi- 
tal stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, what was the process "? What hap- 
pened at the time of the payment ? Was there any absolute payment in cash on these 
subscriptions, or was it a mere payment in road-making ? 

A. It was a payment in road-making. We paid cash for building the road, and then 
we took stock from the company in payment of the expenditures. 

Q. But you would not have considered that stock as equivalent to so much cash in 
payment for your expenditures ? - 

A. No, sir ; we would not. 

Q. Therefore you do not consider the amount of expenditure in road-building which 
you paid in for the stock as equivalent for so much cash, did you ? 

A. No, sir ; I would have been loth to have taken it. 

Q. Then, so far as the subscriptions of the Credit Mobilier were concerned, 
there was no cash payment for subscriptions except so far as this might be considered 
equivalent ? 

A. We actually paid cash. The Union Pacific Railroad Company agreed to pay 
to contractors so much money ; when the contractors came to us with their bills we, 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company, if we had not bonds to pay them, paid the bal- 
ance in stock ; we sold our bonds and paid in cash as far as it would go, or we paid 
them in bonds, which, by the contract, they were obliged to take ; and the balance due 
on the contract we were obliged to pay in stock. 

Q. My question is whether $100 in stock, so subscribed for and so paid, was 
deemed by either party of the transaction as equivalent to $100 in cash. 

A. By the Union Pacific Railroad Company of course it was equivalent to $100, 
but the man who took it would have been very glad to sell it for thirty or forty dol- 
lars. 

Q. As contractors you got cash, bonds of the company, and Government bonds 
for building the road f 

A. Yes. 

Q. You did not regard that, in paying you for building the road, $100 in stock 
was worth its face to you ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. You expected to get something else besides tliat $100 in stock as your $100 
worth on your contract ? 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. XIII 

A. Yes. The stock was really not worth, to the contractor who took it at par 
by any means, because it could be always bought in the market as low generally as 
from thirty to forty dollars. 

Q. Then, if the $100 in stock was only worth about thirty or forty dollars to the con- 
tractor to whom it was paid, in proportioning what he rendered to the company be- 
tween what was given as an equivalent for its stock and what was given as an equiv- 
alent for its Government bonds, and what was given as an equivalent for its own first - 
mortgage bonds, he did not render to the company $100 in value for every $100 in stock, 
did he ? 

A. No, sir. 

Q. Was there any actual going through the ceremonial of paying in cash on those 
subscriptions to the treasurer of the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? 

A. Yes, there was always a check given. 

Q. But the money never got into the treasury of the Union Pacific Railroad Compa- 
ny, I suppose ? 

A. The Union Pacific Railroad Company gave the trustees a check for the amount 
due, and the trustees turned over that check in payment to the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company for stock. 

Q. There never was any interval between the payment of this check for stock and 
handing of it over again in payment of the contract ? 

A. Probably not. 

Q. When you made, in behalf of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, the contract 
with Mr. Oakes Ames as contractor, you expected that the transaction which you have 
now described would be the substance of the transaction that would take place, did 
you not ? 

A. Substantially. 

This contract extended over one hundred and thirty-eight miles of 
road completed and accepted. No work was done under it until after 
its assignment. That portion already completed had cost not to exceed 
$27,500 per mile, and by embracing this one hundred and thirty-eight 
miles in it, these trustees derived a " profit," if such a term is admissible 
in such a connection, which enabled them to make a dividend among 
the stockholders in less than sixty days after the assignment, namely, on 
the 12th of December, 1867, as follows : Sixty per cent, in first-mortgage 
bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com pany, $2,244,000 ; sixty per cent, 
in stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, $2,244,000. 

This was mainly, if not entirely, derived from the excess of the con- 
tract price over what the one hundred and thirty-eight miles had cost. 

The trustees proceeded to construct the road under this contract, and 
from a balance-sheet taken from the books it appears that the cost to 
the 

Railroad company was $57, 140, 102 74 

And the cost to the contractors was 27,285,141 99 

Profit 29,854,141 99 



. The nature of this profit, as in case of that on the Hoxie contract, 
will appear hereafter. The next step in construction was under what 
is known as the 

DAVIS CONTRACT. 

This was a contract made with J. W. Davis, a man of but little, if 
anv ? pecuniary ability, (and not expected to perform the contract,) for 
the construction of that part of the road beginning at the western ter- 
minus of the "Ames contract," and extending to the western terminus 
of the road, a distance of one hundred and twenty-five and twenty-three 
hundredths miles. It was upon the same terms as the Ames contract, 
and was assigned to the same board of trustees. Under it the residue 
of the road was constructed, and, from a balance-sheet taken from the 
books of the railroad company, it appears that it 



XIV CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

Cost the railroad company , $23,431,768 10 

And, from a balance-sheet taken from the books of the trustees, that it 

cost the contractors 15,629,633 62 

Profi t 7,802,084 48 

Tour committee present the following summary of cost of this road to 
the railroad company and to the contractors, as appears by the books : 

Cost to railroad company. 

Hoxie contract $12,974,416 24 

Ames contract 57, 140, 102 94 

Davis contract . 23,431,768 10 

Total 93,546,287 28 

Cost to contractors. 

Hoxie contract „ $7,806,183 33 

Ames contract 27,285,141 99 

Davis contract 15,629,633 62 

50, 720, 958 94 

42, 825, 328 34 
To this should be added amount paid Credit Mobilier on account of 
fifty-eight miles 1,104,000 00 

Total profit on construction 43,925,328 34 



The balance-sheets, from which the foregoing results have been ob- 
tained, were made out by Mr. Crane and Mr. flam, accountants familiar 
with the books and with most of the transactions. Your committee have 
earnestly endeavored to get the exact cost of the road to the company 
and to the contractors ; and if they have failed, it is because those who 
should know, and have had the opportunity to inform the committee, 
have failed to give the information. The books have been kept in such 
a way, and the transactions have been of such a character, as that their 
true nature has been very much disguised. 

It is a matter of no little importance to know what the cash profits of 
this construction have been, and in this connection the following sum- 
mary is presented on that subject. 

The attention of Mr. Ham was called to the fact that the balance-sheets 
above alluded to showed an aggregate profit on the Ames and Davis 
contracts of $37,657,095.43, and he was asked the question how much of 
it was money, how much bonds, and how much stock. His answer gave 
the following exhibit : 

$3,777,000 first-mortgage bonds, at 90 $3,399,300 

$4,400,000 certificates for first-mortgage bonds, afterward converted into 

income-bonds, at 4, 425, 000 

$5,841,000 income-bonds, at 60 3,486,600 

$24,000,000 stock Union Pacific Railroad Company 24, 000, 000 

$2,346,195 cash 2,346,195 

Total 37,657,095 



From this it will appear that in making up this profit all the securities 
are estimated at their cash value, except the stock, which is estimated at 
par. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. XV 

This shows that the profits on these two contracts are — 

Bonds, (cash value) ." $11,310,900 00 

Twenty-four million stock, at 30 7,200,000 00 

Cash 2,346,000 00 

20,850,900 00 

The profits on the Hoxie contract, as before stated, were ..$6,272,232 71 
Treating all of this as stock, except $1,125,000 of first-mortgage bonds, 

divided as hereinafter stated, the profits, cash values on this, would 

be as follows : 

$1,125,000 first-mortgage bonds, at 85 965,250 0C 

$5,147,232.71 stock, at 30 1,544,169 81 

Total cash profit : 23,366,319 81 

In making this calculation the stock is placed at thirty cents, because 
that is the value the parties have placed on it. 

If all the profits made have been divided, the dividend account should 
correspond with the amount of profit above stated. But it does not 
correspond, and w T hether the failure to correspond is attributable to in- 
accuracy as to the amount of profits or to disguises in making divisions, 
the House can judge in some degree from the facts hereinafter set forth. 

The following are the dividends as appears in the evidence. First, by 
Credit Mobilier, results of Hoxie contract : 

The Credit Mobilier on the — day of January, 1867, increased its capi- 
tal stock from $2,500,000 to $3,750,000, and for each $1,000 of additional 
stock taken, there was distributed to the subscriber a first-mortgage 
bond of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company of $1,000. In this way 
there was divided $1,125,000 in first-mortgage bonds. 

Then, on the day of , 18G7, there was a dividend made of 

12 per cent. (6 per cent, for each of the years 18G6 and 1867) in 
stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, at 30 per cent, of its 
par value. This would amount to $1,500,000 stock par value. 

These two amounts aggregate $2,750,000. 

But the balance-sheet shows a profit to the Credit Mobilier — 

On the Hoxie contract of $5, 168, 232 91 

Add amount received on fifty-eight miles 1, 104, 000 00 

Total ,. 6,272,232 91 



This shows a discrepancy of $3,522,232.91. But that the above divi- 
dends are delusive, and are not all that was divided, is disclosed by the 
testimony of Mr. Ham, pages 277-383, to which attention is especially 
called. 

Mr. Ham was asked what amount of profit was made by the Credit 
Mobilier on the Hoxie contract, and what they had received on the fifty- 
eight miles west of the one hundredth meridian. 

A. The amount of profit they have received is $6,272,232.91. 

After stating that of this amount $1,125,000 was divided in first- 
mortgage bonds, as above, in his further examination as to the disposi- 
tion of this profit, (see pages 377-383,) it appears that the whole of the 
profit above stated was divided. 

So it is apparent that much more has been distributed on account of 
this Hoxie contract among these stockholders than what the dividend 
statements would indicate. 



XVI CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

2. The following are the dividends, as appears from the books, that 
were made out of the proceeds of the Ames contract : 

First dividend December 12, 1867, of sixty per cent., in first-mortgage bonds $2, 244, 000 

Sixty per cent. in stock Union Pacific Railroad Company 2,244,000 

Second dividend January 3, 1868, of twenty per cent., in first-mortgage 

bonds 748,000 

Third dividend June 17, 1868, of forty per cent, stock Union Pacific Railroad 1, 500, 000 

Sixty per cent, cash 2,250,000 

Fourth dividend July 3, 1868, first-mortgage bonds 2, 791, 500 

Fifth dividend July 8, 1868, in cash 1,095,168 

Sixth dividend December 29, 1868, in stock 7,599, 000 

Total 20,471,668 



Here, it will be observed, is another large discrepancy between the 
dividend account and the amount of profit made, as shown above. 
Whether this difference has escaped under the cover of some fog into 
the pockets of these managers, as was obviously the case under the 
Hoxie contract, or whether the books show too large a profit, your com- 
mittee will leave the House to judge. 

The Ames and Davis contracts having been essentially the same, the 
accounts were so kept that it was difficult to separate them and know 
exactly the profit on either — this is the testimony of Mr. Ham and Mr. 
Crane — and a part of the profit charged to this Ames contract may have 
been divided under the Davis contract, as it will hereafter be seen that 
under that contract a division was made of largely more than the profit 
par value of the stock divided. 

NEXT, THE DIVISIONS UNDER THE DAVIS CONTRACT. 

The mode of making divisions under this contract was this : 

On the day of , 1869, the trustees sold to the stockholders of the Union 

Pacific Railroad Company — 

2,750 first-mortgage bonds for $275,000 

2,750 land-grant bonds for 275,000 

Total 550,000 

They distributed to the persons to whom these bonds were sold in stock 
two and one-half times the amount of bonds purchased, namely, stock 
Union Pacific Railroad Company $1,375,000 00 

2. The trustees sold stockholders 3,901 income-bonds, at 80 cents to 
the dollar, amounting to $ , and divided stock Union Pacific 

Railroad Company 7,802,000 00 

3. The trustees sold stockholders 1,909 income-bonds, at 80 cents to 

the dollar, and divided stock Union Pacific Railroad Company 3, 318, 000 00 

* — — 

Total stock - 12,995,000 00 



This is a division largely in excess of the profit on this Davis con- 
tract in stock, par value, as shown above ; but, as before indicated, this 
excess may have been carried from the Ames into the Davis contract. 

This excess of profit over the dividends appearing- on the books, in all 
probability was disposed of in some such way as was used in the dis- 
position of the Hoxie profits, * 

Mr. Ham having given the amount of bonds, stock, and money em- 
braced in this $37,657,095.43 profit on these two contracts from the 
books, is very strong if not conclusive evidence that the statement of 
profit is correct, and consequently that the books do not show all that 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. XVII 

was divided, or that there is yet in the hands of the trustees undivided 
profits. 

lit this connection the committee calls attention to the following 
facts : 

First-mortgage bonds issued $27,213,000 00 

Sold at a discount of 3,494,991 23 

Net proceeds . 23,718,008 77 

Government bonds issued , $27,236,512 00 

Sold at discount of 91,348 72 

27, 145, 163 38 

Aggregate net proceeds of both classes $50, 863, 172 05 

Cost of whole road to the contractors 50, 720, 958 94 



142,213 11 



And attention is also called to the time of the receipt of Government 
bonds, as shown by schedule thereof set forth in the evidence. 

It appears, then, speaking in round numbers, that the cost of the road 
was $50,000,000, which cost was wholly re-imbursed from the proceeds 
of the Government bonds and first-mortgage bonds ; and that from the 
stock, the income-bonds, and land-grant bonds, the builders received in 
cash value at least $23,000,000 as profit, being a percentage of about 
forty -eight per cent, on the entire cost. 

The committee have examined, as will be seen from the evidence, the 
parties who have been participating in these transactions as to the 
amount of profits. Their testimony on the subject has been widely 
variant. 

The committee deem it proper here to direct attention specifically and 
separately to the following transactions in disbursement of portions of 
the assets of this road, which seem to the committee to have been wrong- 
ful, and to demand the immediate and grave consideration of the 
present directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company and of what- 
ever authority may be charged with the duty of securing the recovery 
of the property of the company from those who are responsible for or 
the recipients of these illegal disbursements : 

1. One hundred and twenty-six thousand dollars were paid to O. S. 
Bushnell on the 9th day of March, 1871, and denominated "special 
legal expenses," which was disposed of as follows : 

First. To G. M. Dodge for services in procuring the passage of 
the act of March 3, 1871, in relation to transportation by 
said company for the Government = . - $24, 500 

Second. Amount paid by O. S. Bushnell to Thomas A. Scott 
on private account , . . 19, 000 

Third. Amount retained by C. S. Bushnell on his own ac- 
count 82, 500 



126, 000 



2. Fifty thousand dollars were paid to Governor John A. Dix as a . 
purchase by the railroad company of its own stock. 
^ 3. Twenty-five thousand dollars were paid to a Government commis- 
sioner to secure the acceptance of a portion of the road as completed. 
H. Rep. 78 ti 



XVIII CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

4. Four hundred and thirty-five thousand seven hundred and fifty- 
four dollars and twenty-one cents, designated as " suspense account," 
were allowed to T. 0. Durant, vice-president of the company, which 
appear from the evidence to have been disbursed in connection with the 
passage of the amendatory act of July, 1864, of the particulars of 
which disbursement the committee have been unable to obtain satisfac- 
tory account. For disbursement of such money, so far as ascertained, 
the committee refer to the evidence herewith reported, as they do also 
as to the disposition of the other moneys above named. 

Justice to the parties interested requires that the grounds on which 
they rely for their defense or extenuation should be understood by Con- 
gress and the country in their full force. The contractors, or some of 
them, justify these transactions on the following grounds : 

1. That nearly every railroad which has been built in the United 
States for the past twenty years, although its charter may have required 
the payment of its capital in cash, has in fact been constructed under 
an arrangement by which the capital stock was in large part paid in 
road-building. 

2. That it would have been impossible to build the road under the 
acts of Congress, if the condition requiring the capital to be paid in 
money had been strictly enforced. 

3. That the act required the books to be kept open for subscriptions 
until the completion of the road, or until one hundred millions of capi- 
tal stock were subscribed. If at any time before the completion of the 
road the stock was in actual value above par, it would be in the power 
of any person by subscribing and paying for new stock at par to avail 
himself of the value which the stock had derived wholly at the risk 
and through the labors of former subscribers, and that this provision 
rendered a compliance with the act impossible. 

4. That all the stockholders of the railroad company consenting and 
being parties, these transactions though in form a contract were in sub- 
stance a dividend which they had a perfect right to make, and with 
which no outside party can justly find fault. 

5. That the railroad company acquired by the transaction something 
more than the mere construction of a road for cash ; that the arrange- 
ment called into their service the vast personal credit of Cakes Ames 
and others, without which it could never have been built, and which 
could not have been called into the service of the road at less expense. 

6. That if the road had been built by contractors in the ordinary way, 
either under one contractor or cut up into numerous subdivisions, then a 
l>rofit of 16 to 20 per cent, would not have been unreasonable or im- 
proper, and that no more profit has in fact been made here. 

7. That the managers of the road believed they were complying with 
the requirements of the law in substance. 

8. That they were advised by eminent counsel that they were so com- 
plying. " 

9. That the country has in fact received not only the vast public bene- 
fits resulting from the early completion of the road, but the pecuniary 
saving to the United States in. postal and military transportation and 
the maintenance of troops is so great that they are entitled to gratitude 
and not censure for having departed from the letter of the law, which 
rendered the construction of the road impossible. 

10. That it may be partly true that the capital stock ought not to be 
divided, and that the bounty Of the Government or the moneys bor- 
rowed ought to have been kept in the Treasury ; but that if they had 
dealt with a stranger, they could have got no better terms than they in 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. XIX 

fact got for building the road. And if they added to the credit of the 
road their own. personal credit, it was not unreasonable that they should 
make a dividend of so much as they would have had to pay to a stranger 
as profit. 

These arguments the committee have carefully weighed. Some of 
them are not without force. 

We will consider them in their order. It is perhaps true that the 
clause in railroad charters requiring payment of the capital in money, 
has been of late years constantly disregarded or evaded. But these 
conditions are commonly inserted in charters granted by State author- 
ity as a protection to the public against the contracting of debts by 
organizations without either corporate funds or the power to pledge 
the personal liability of their members. The fund, as is said by Judge 
Story, is a substitute for personal responsibility. Where the purpose of 
the charter — namely, the construction of the railroad — has been accom- 
plished, and the road acquired by the company by exchanging its stock 
for construction, and no person is misled, the public benefited by 
the enterprise has been disposed to deal leniently with the violation of 
law. But in this case the Government gave to this corporation its 
franchise, its right of way, including substantially its entire road-bed, 
a vast area of public domain, its credit to the amount of over twenty- 
seven million dollars, and enabled it to obtain a like amount by mort- 
gaging the property the Government gave it. The Government never 
consented to trust its property to men who had not put their own 
money into the enterprise. It never consented to take security for its 
re-imbursement at the end of thirty years, solely on the property it had 
advanced. It never expected to rely for the performance of these great 
public duties upon a company whose debts equalled its whole property. 
The law-making power, if its mandates are to be obeyed or respected 
hereafter, cannot accept as an excuse for disobedience to its express 
directions, by the corporation it has created, that the members of that 
corporation have decided that those directions were unreasonable and 
unnecessary. 

In this case the provision of the charter requiring the stock to be 
paid for in money, has been grossly violated; because, as is apparent, 
nearly the whole of the stock that has been issued represents no value 
to the railroad company ; or, to state it differently, was issued without 
any consideration whatsoever. 

2 and 3. If it was impossible to build the road according to the act of 
Congress, they had no right to build it. They could easily have repre- 
sented their difficulty to Congress, which has dealt generously with them 
from the beginning. 

4. It may be that all the existing stockholders shared these profits, so 
that what was in form a contract was in substance a dividend. But 
nothing is better settled than that a railroad corporation has no right, 
either as against creditors or a minority of its stockholders, to distribute 
any part of its capital as dividends, and that a court of equity will 
interfere to prevent it. There can be still less justification for using the 
proceeds of moneys borrowed either of the Government or on the first 
mortgage for the purpose of a dividend. 

5. The claim that these gentlemen had aided the enterprise with their 
own personal credit at first seemed a forcible one, but it disappears when 
carefully examined. 

Let us see exactly what risk was assumed at the beginning of the 
execution of the Oakes Ames contract. If the contract on the whole ap- 
peared at any time during the progress of the work likely to be unprofit- 



XX CREDIT MOBILISE AND UXION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

able, tlie clause giving the trustees an irrevocable proxy to vote on six- 
tenths of every man's stock enabled them to obtain the consent of both 
the nominal parties to its abandonment. 

They were to have their bonds of both classes for each twenty miles 
when that twenty miles was completed, and, on the certificate of the 
chief engineer and commissioners, a proportionate share for uncompleted 
work. They were entitled by their contract to about $3,000,000 profits 
on the portion of the road which had been completed under a previous 
contract, but was included at a higher price in theirs. All they put at 
risk, therefore, was what they had to advance to build each twenty 
miles of the road, and this risk only lasted until that sum was re-imbursed 
on the completion of such section of twenty miles. This, at the rate 
fixed for the first hundred miles under the Oakes Ames contract, would 
amount to $840,000 for twenty miles, supposing there were no profits, 
and at the rate for the last hundred miles, to $1,920,000. But they di- 
vided among themselves on the 12th of December, 1867, less than two 
months after they got the contract, as before shown, a large amount in 
first-mortgage bonds and a like amount in stock par value, and from 
time to time made the other dividends hereinbefore set forth. Thus it 
appears that they divided, December 12, 1867, among themselves as 
profits at that date, a larger sum than they ever put at risk in the whole 
transaction. 

6. This claim that no unreasonable profit has been made is not sup- 
ported by the testimony. The risk, as has been shown, was wholly 
that of the Government. 

7 and 8. The gentlemen making these excuses, though invited, have 
failed to furnish the committee with any evidence that such a legal 
opinion w r as given them. 

9. It is true that the construction of the Pacific Eailroad has saved 
large expenditure, both in postal and military transportation and the 
maintenance of troops, and has been of great public advantage. But it 
has been built chiefly w 7 ith the resources of the Government. 

10. The answer to this is to be found in figures disclosed in this 
report. 

It is also said that it is unjust to look at this question in the light of 
the present; that we should go back to the condition of things before 
the road was built, when the whole scheme seemed, to the prudent capi- 
talists of the country, visionary and perilous. This is true ; and if 
these gentlemen assumed great risks from which others shrank, and 
thereby great benefits inured to the public, they should have all due 
credit. But we think they differed from other capitalists, not in taking a 
risk, but in having discovered that the road could be built at vast profit 
without risk, the resources furnished by the Government being more 
than ample for the purpose. 

The committee do not conceive it to be their duty to express or to 
form an opinion as to the degree of moral blame that attaches to the 
persons engaged in these transactions, except so far as that may right- 
fully affect the exercise of the discretion of Congress in dealing with 
their franchises. Congress cannot accept the general intentions of per- 
sons combined as an excuse for a deliberate violation of its laws, if it 
expects them to be obeyed or respected hereafter. But we do not like 
to close our narrative of this case, and pronounce judgment upon these 
illegal transactions, without observing that there are many persons con- 
nected with the Credit Mobilier who held their stock openly and with- 
out concealment from the beginning, and who seem to have had no 
share in its management, and no knowledge of the wrongful use of its 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. XXI 

stock or of the funds of the railroad. Some of these persons are per- 
sons of eminent character, holding high public positions. It is difficult 
to believe that they had any consciousness that they were doing wrong, 
or saw the whole proceeding in the light in which the committee now 
state it. Mr. J. M. S. Williams's statement probably correctly represents 
the exact feeling of this class of persons : " they thought they were 
only dealing with their own property; they did not think they had any- 
thing to do with the Government." 
The result of these proceedings was this : 

1. While the charter of the Credit Mobilier required its affairs to 
be managed by a board of directors and its principal business office to 
be in Philadelphia, the actual conduct of its affairs was wholly by the 
men acting as a board of trustees and in the city of New York, so that 
this unlawful arrangement attempted to disguise, and did in effect dis- 
guise, these persons by means of a fictitious and pretended and not a 
real use of the corporate powers of the Credit Mobilier. 

2. While the charter of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company required 
its corporate powers to be wielded by a board of fifteen directors, ten 
of whom should be bona-fide holders of stock and should be elected by 
stockholders representing capital which had been actually paid in full 
and in money, this contrivance virtually placed ail the power and con- 
trol of said railroad corporation, its property and franchises, in the 
hands of the same persons, and beyond the management provided by 
law, thereby disguising and intending to disguise an unlawful seizure 
of the powers cf the company, an unlawful use of its name in the issue 
of stock, bonds, and scrip, and an unlawful distribution of its property 
among the parties. 

3. While the United States subordinated its own lien to secure re- 
imbursement of the loan of its bonds to a mortgage to secure the bonds 
of the company for a like amount for the purpose of constructing the 
road, moneys have been in fact borrowed under the privilege so con- 
ferred and distributed as dividends. 

4. The statute requiring the capital stock to be paid for in money at 
par, it has in fact been paid at not exceeding thirty cents on the dollar 
in road building, excepting, perhaps, the sum of about $400,000. 

5. Instead of securing a solvent, powerful, well-endowed company, 
able to perform its important public functions without interruption in 
times of commercial disaster and in times of war, and able to maintain 
its impartiality and neutrality in dealing with all connecting lines, it is 
now weak and poor, kept from bankruptcy only by the voluntary aid of 
a few capitalists who are interested to maintain it, and liable to fall into 
the control of shrewd and adroit managers, and to become an append- 
age to some one of the railroad-lines of the East. 

In 1871 it fell under the control of the active managing men of the 
Pennsylvania Central Eailroad Company ; and its present control and 
the manner in which it was procured are sufficiently shown by the fol- 
lowing testimony of Hon. Horace F. Clark, the present president. After 
stating that he had purchased twenty-five or thirty thousand shares of 
the stock, and with some friends forty thousand shares in all, (which he 
purchased at thirty cents,) and had made a call or contract for twenty- 
four or twenty-five thousand additional shares, his testimony proceeds 
as follows : ■ 

Q. What object did you have in view in making this purchase of stock and in be- 
coming president of the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? 

A. I am connected with a line of railroad leading from the Missouri River, through 
Chicago, Cleveland, and Buffalo, to Albany and Boston. I was president of the 



XXII CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Lake Shore and Michigan Southern Railway Company, which fills up the gap from 
Chicago to Buffalo. I was a director in the New York Central aud Hudson River Rail- 
road Company, which fills up the gap between Buffalo and New York. Mr. Scott had 
previously been the president of the Union Pacific Railroad Company.' He represented 
the Pennsylvania Railroad, which is an opposition line to the lines with which I am 
connected. From Chicago they reach the sea-coast by Philadelphia, by the Fort Wayne 
road. My object in interesting myself iu the Union Pacific Railroad Company was to 
share in the traffic arrangements. We might get none of the traffic of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company by the way of our lines if the control of that road was in the hands 
of a competing line. That was the inducement. My inducemeut to make the call was 
that (never taking any compensation in the way of salary) I wanted the advantage 
which would result from a participation in the traffic of this railroad. Boston is 
reached by rail through our lines ; it is not reached by continuous rail through any 
other lines. It seemed to me as if tea and silks, and various articles of merchandise, 
could be carried to Boston, which is a great point of consumption, and a great point 
of export by rail, if the rail-line to the sea-board was open. My object in making the 
call was that I might share in the prosperity of the road, which would result from the 
opening of this rail-line; and I made the call. Whether the parties who sold me the 
call had. the stock or not, was a point which I did not inquire about. They were 
responsible parties, and if they did not have the stock they were bound to buy it iu 
the market. My object in having anything to do with the line was in connection with 
railroad traffic. I knew nothing about the Credit Mobilier. I had heard that there 
had been a construction ring in that road, but what had been the effect of it I did not 
know. My object in taking the call was to get the advantage, which some thought 
might result from the increase in the value of the stock, from the change of adminis- 
tration. 

Q. Was it your purpose in making that purchase of stock, or was there an arrange- 
ment when the stock was purchased, that you should become president of that road 1 

A. There was. 

Q. By whom was that arrangement made ? 

A. I think the negotiations for that arrangement were made between Mr. Morton 
and Mr. Banker. 

Q. Who were the parties behind them ? 

A. I do not know them all. I think that among these parties were some of the 
Boston parties. Mr. Morton only became responsible under the call to a limited 
amount. The Messrs. Ames joined in the call, but in what sums I do not remember. 
The total amount was twenty-four or twenty-five thousand shares, at 30. 

Q. The arrangement which was made for that purchase of stock resulted in your 
coming into the presidency of the road? • 

A. Y r es ; because then I said to the stockholders that I would take their proxies, 
and the stockholders sent their proxies to me. I had not, with my friends, stock enough 
myself to control the election, or anything like it. 

Q. Do you know whether, the year preceding, Mr. Scott became president of the 
road under a similar arrangement f 

A.. I know nothing about it. I have heard statements about it, but I have no knowl- 
edge on the subject. 

The division of the substance of the corporation has so weakened it 
as to make its control by capitalists and powerful railroad corporations 
in the manner above described, easy. It is now helpless and dependent. 

6. The right of the Government to regulate fares when the road pays 
10 per cent. Qn its cost is rendered nugatory or difficult of exercise by 
recording a fictitious and not an actual statement of the cost of the 
road. 

Before proceeding to discuss the question of remedy, your committee 
take occasion to say that, in making this investigation, they have la- 
bored under great disadvantages. The books containing the records of 
these transactions are voluminous and complicated. The estimates of 
engineers made before the letting of the various contracts cannot be 
found. The presence, as a witness, of General Granville M. Dodge, 
the chief engineer, under whose supervision the principal -part of the 
work was done, could not be procured, although diligent efforts were 
made to that end. Telegrams were sent to him, inviting his attendance 
as a witness, and a deputy sergeant-at-arms was sent for him, who has 
diligently sought him for weeks, but has been unable to find him. Your 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. XXIIL 

committee have information from which they feel warranted in stating 
that they believe that he has been purposely avoiding the service of 
the summons. . 

Mr. John J. Cisco, who was treasurer of the Union Pacific Railroad, 
Company, was unable to attend by reason of illness. 

Governor John A. Dix, who was president, could not be present by 
reason of his executive duties as governor of the State of New York. 

Having had these difficulties to encounter, your committee do not pre- 
sent the foregoing figures in relation to the money value of profits and 
in relation to dividends as being exact. 

Many of the incidents to these transactions have not been investi- 
gated as thoroughly as was desired, for want of time. 

This report does not embrace all the matters committed to the com- 
mittee, and the report is only in part. The present report is made be- 
cause of the desire of the committee to submit it to the consideration 
of the House without that delay which would be unavoidable if the re- 
port should be attempted to be made complete before any part of the 
matters submitted to the committee are presented to the House. It is 
the purpose of the committee to proceed at once to consider and report 
upon the residue of the matters referred. 

The committee have given much consideration to the question of rem- 
edy. To discuss it fully would extend this report, already too long, to 
an undue length. We will briefly state our conclusions. It is proper 
further to state that nothing has been disclosed in the evidence indicat- 
ing any misappropriations of the moneys of the company by the present 
management. 

We think the facts we have stated would furnish ground for judgment 
of forfeiture of all the franchises of the corporation, including the prin- 
ipal franchise, to be a corporation on proper process. According to the 
American decisions, judgment of forfeiture on quo ivarranto is not fol- 
lowed by an absolute forfeiture to the Government of all the property 
of a corporation, as was the earlier English practice ; but a court of 
equity in such case has jurisdiction to divide the assets among the cred- 
itors or stockholders. We have no doubt also of the right of Congress 
to repeal the charter, which is expressly reserved in the act of 1862, and 
that on such repeal equity would distribute the assets in like manner. 
But the objection to either proceeding is twofold : first, it would be 
harsh and unjust to forfeit the eights of the present stockholders, a large 
majority of whom have bought their stock in good faith in the market, 
for the wrong-doing of their predecessors; second, in either case above 
supposed, equity could only distribute the assets as in case of bank- 
ruptcy or death ; neither court nor Congress could compel the present 
owners to embark their property in continuing the exercise of the same 
franchise under a new organization. The railroad must then stop or be 
operated by the Government, or be sold at a forced sale in the market. 
To either of these proceedings there are grave public objections. The 
committee have then sought for a remedy which would compel the 
recovery of the property of the road from those persons who have re- 
ceived it wrongfully, and its application in future to the purposes of 
the road and the payment of its debts, including that due the United 
States. The question of the right to such recovery is of course purely 
judicial. We cannot by act of Congress impose upon any man a legal 
or equitable obligation to pay money into the treasury of the company. 
But we have the right to make provision for as simple, speedy, and 
ample a remedy as possible. 



XXIV CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Can this remedy be by suit, in the name of the United States ? The 
United States sustains several relations to this corporation. First, it is 
the sovereign which created the corporation. It may proceed by quo 
warranto at common law for forfeiture of the franchise. The objections 
to this proceeding have been stated. The sovereign in England has a 
visitorial power over certain public corporations, which is exercised 
through the chancellor. But it has been held that this is a power which 
the chancellor exercises as the king's servant or representative, and is 
not a part of the powers of a court of equity as such, and does not reside 
in the national courts of the United States. It is doubtful whether the 
equity power to regulate charities, though it has been extended over 
certain trusts created for the irablic interests which are not included 
within the popular, and perhaps not within the technical, definition of 
a charity, would extend over a corporation which, though created for a 
public purpose, conducts its business for private gain. The United 
States also sustains the relation to this corporation of creditor. But as 
an ordinary creditor it cannot go into equity for relief against the equi- 
table assets of its debtor until it has first obtained judgment at common 
law. Whether any present debt exists, due and payable to the United 
States from this corporation, is a matter of grave debate, which is already 
before another committee of this House. 

But we think the corporation and the United States sustain the rela- 
tion of trustee and cestui que trust. The United States have placed in 
the hands of the corporation large properties to be managed for a pub- 
lic purpose, for which management the corporators are to be compen- 
sated by the gains lawfully made in the employment. After the com- 
pletion of the road, 5 per cent, of the net earnings of the business are 
to be applied to the payment of the debt of the United States. Bonds 
of the United States, payable in thirty years from their date, are issued 
to the company, and on the refusal or failure of the company to redeem 
said bonds, or any part of them, when required so to do by the Secre- 
tary of the Treasury, in accordance with the provisions of this act, the 
said road, with all the rights, functions, immunities, and appurtenances 
thereto belonging, and also all lands granted to the said company by the 
United States which at the time of said default shall remain in the owner- 
ship of the said company, may be taken possession of by the Secretary 
of the Treasury for the use and benefit of the United States. (Statute 
1862, section five.) The statute of 1864, section ten, " subordinates the 
lien of the United States to that of the bonds of the companies author- 
ized by that act to be issued." This is not a mere mortgage or lien on 
existing and ascertained property. It is a right to have a fund in- 
trusted to the corporation for management applied at a future day to 
the benefit of the United States, and to have in the mean time a share 
of the profits of such management also so applied. A trust is an obli- 
gation on the part of the legal owner of property to manage and apply 
it for the benefit of another. 

If the United States had reserved, as it lawfully might, the right to 
5 per cent, of the net earnings and to enter upon the whole property at 
the end of thirty years for its own absolute benefit, it would have pre- 
sented a state of facts which would serve for a clear and simple illus- 
tration of a trust. It can be no less a trust that the benefit the. United 
States are to receive is limited to the payment of a debt. Its security 
for the payment of the debt is the equitable property reserved to it by 
the act which creates the corporation, endows it, and defined the terms 
on which the endowment shall be held. 

Both the grant of the land and the issue of bonds to this company 
were made for the purpose and on the trust expressly declared in the 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. XXV 

grant in these words, " for the purpose of aiding in the construction of 
said railroad and telegraph line, and to secure the safe and speedy 
transportation of the mails, troops, munitions of war, and public stores 
thereon," and " to promote the public interest and welfare by the con- 
struction of said railroad and telegraph line and keeping the same in 
working order, and to secure to the Government at all times (but par- 
ticularly in time of war) the use and benefits of the same for postal, 
military, and other purposes." 

The committee do not doubt that the proceeds of these lands and bonds, 
as well as of the first-mortgage bonds which the Government has pro- 
vided to secure by a lien prior to its own, are held as an express trust 
by this company, and applicable alone to said declared purposes of the 
acts. Any distribution of the proceeds of either of these funds as 
profits or dividends to stockholders is illegal, as violative of the de- 
clared purposes of the trust. 

We have, then, the case of a corporation which is a trustee, in the 
management of persons who have divided the trust funds among them- 
selves, who have promised to pay for its capital stock in cash, which 
promises they have not kept, and on which they are still liable, and 
which the corporation neglects to enforce, and who have made contracts 
with themselves in reference to the trust fund, the profits on which con- 
tracts they ought in equity account for to the trust fund upon the most 
simple principles of equity. A suit can be maintained by any cestui que 
trust to compel the collection of these assets, and that the trustee shall 
hold them hereafter as part of the trust property. It will be no answer 
to this statement to say that the ultimate security of the United States 
has not been impaired. This is far from being true in fact. If it were 
true, the United States have a right to have the security which they 
stipulated for, even if it be more than is necessary. 

If we are wrong in this opinion, there is no remedy except by resort- 
ing to the extreme power of repealing the act. Those questions are 
judicial questions, as we have said. We propose a simple method of 
raising and determining them in one suit, and of securing so far as we 
can the administration of the fund according to law in the future. 

The committee, then, find that there are persons connected with the 
Credit Mobilier holding such bonds as are contemplated by the order 
of the House. 

They are not holders of the same in good faith and for value, but did 
procure the same illegally. 

We do not recommend that the United States refuse to pay these 
bonds or their interest without a judicial ascertainment of the facts. 

We think that so many persons hold the first-mortgage bonds of the 
Union Pacific Railroad in good faith and for value that the said mortgage 
ought not to be set aside. 

We report the facts as to the character of the organization known as 
the Credit Mobilier. 

We refer for facts as to the members of Congress and officers of the 
Government connected therewith to the evidence taken before the com- 
mittee of which Mr. Poland, of Vermont, is chairman, and to that here- 
with submitted ; and 

We respectfully report the accompanying bill, and recommend its 
passage. 

J. M. WILSON. 
SAML. SHELLABARGER. 
GEO. F. HOAR. 
H. W. S LOCUM. 
H. Rep. 78 m 



XXVI CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

AN ACT to amend an act entitled " An act to aid in the construction of a railroad and telegraph line from 
the Missouri River to the Pacific Ocean, and to secure to the Government the use of the same for 
postal, military, and other purposes," and to secure the interests of the United States and of the 
people in the Union Pacific Railroad. 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America 
in Congress assembled, That the Attorney-General shall cause a suit in equity to be in- 
stituted in the name of the United States against the Union Pacific Railroad Company, 
and against all persons who may in their own names or through any agents have sub- 
scribed for or received capital stock in said road, which stock has not been paid for in 
full in money, or who may have received as dividends or otherwise portions of the 
capital stock of said road or the proceeds or avails thereof, or other property of said 
road, unlawfully and contrary to equity, or who may have received as profits or pro- 
ceeds of contracts for construction or equipment of said road or other contracts there- 
with, moneys or other property which ought in equity to belong to said railroad cor- 
poration, or who may, under pretense of having complied with the acts to which this 
is an addition, have wrongfully and unlawfully received from the United States bonds, 
moneys, or lands, which ought in equity to be accounted for and paid to said railroad 
company or to the United States, and to compel payment for said stock, and the collec- 
tion and payment of such moneys and the restoration of such property or its value 
either to said railroad corporation or to the United States, whichever shall in equity 
be held entitled thereto. 

Sec. 2. That said suit may be brought in the circuit court in any circuit, and all said 
parties may be made defendants in one suit. Decrees may be entered and enforced against 
any one or more parties defendant without awaiting the final determination of the 
cause against other parties. The court where said cause is pending may make such 
orders and decrees and issue such process as it shall deem necessary to bring in new 
parties or the representatives of parties deceased, or to carry into effect the purposes 
of this act. On filing the bill, writs of capias and attachment may be issued by said 
court against any parties defendant, which writs shall run into any district, and shall 
be served as other like process by the marshal of such district, on which property, real 
and personal, may be attached to abide the event of the suit as like property may by 
law be attached on writs issuing from the circuit court in such district. 

Sec. 3. That the books, records, correspondence, and all other documents of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company shall at all times be open to inspection by the Secretary of 
the Treasury, or such persons as he may delegate for that purpose. 

Sec. 4. That the laws of the United States providing for proceedings in bankruptcy 
shall not be held to apply to said corporation. 

Sec. 5. That no dividend shall hereafter be made by said company but from the actual 
net earnings thereof, and no new stock shall be issued, or mortgages or pledges made 
on the property or future earnings of the company without leave of Congress, except 
for the purpose of funding and securing debts now existing, or the renewals thereof. 

Sec. 6. That no director or officer of said road shall hereafter be interested, directly or 
indirectly, in any contract therewith, except for his lawful compensation as such officer. 

Sec. 7." That any director or officer who shall pay, or declare, or aid in paying or de- 
claring, any dividend, or creating any mortgage or pledge prohibited by this act, or who 
shall offend against the provisions of the sixth section thereof, shall be punished by 
imprisonment not exceeding two years, and by fine not exceeding $5,000. 



MINORITY KEPOIiT. 

I concur in the facts and figures presented in this report, so far as the 
same could be ascertained through the testimony of those who have 
been connected with the Union Pacific and Credit Mobilier Companies, 
and the legal remedies recommended by the committee; but I object to 
the adoption of the report as incomplete, under the resolution referred 
to this committee January 6, 1873, until some recommendation is em- 
bodied in the same in reference to certain members of Congress who 
have had transactions with Hon. Oakes Ames, as will be found detailed 
in the report of Hon. Luke P. Poland, as chairman, &c, believing that 
the same should be promptly considered and disposed of without further 
loss of time. 

THOS. SWANK 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



Washington, I). 0., January 10, 1873. 

The committee met at 10 a. m. Present: Jeremiah M. Wilson, of 
Indiana, chairman; George F. Hoar, of Massachusetts; Thomas 
Swann, of Maryland ; Henry W. Slocum, of New York. 

On motion, it was ordered that the chairman be authorized to conduct 
the examination of witnesses. 

Ordered, that this committee will regard the action of the House di- 
recting the committee of which Hon. Mr. Poland is chairman to sit with 
open doors, as an instruction to this committee in this investigation. 

Ordered, that the chairman "be requested to confer with counsel ap- 
pointed or to be appointed under resolution of the House of January 6, 
to ascertain whether aid can be rendered b} T them to the committee in 
this investigation. 

John B. Alley sworn, and examined as follows: 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Do you know of the existence of an organization or asso- 
ciation, or corporation, by the name of the Credit Mobilier of America ? 
— Answer. I do. 

Q. Are you now, or have you at any time been, in any way connected 
with it J ? If so, when did your connection with it begin, and in what 
capacity were you connected with it ! — A. I commenced as a stockholder 
in August, 18G5. In Mav, 1867, 1 was elected a director. I continued a 
director, I think, till May, 18G9 or 1870; probably May, 1870. 

Q. Are you connected with it in any way now ! — A. 1 am simply a 
stockholder now. 

Q. Are you an officer of that organization at this time ? — A. I am 
not. 

Q. Have you been connected with it in any other way than you have 
stated at any time; if so, when ? — A. Only as a stockholder and director. 

Q. Is this a corporation, or what is the character of the organization % 
— A. It is a corporation existing in the State of Pennsylvania. 

Q. Upon what authority is this corporation organized? Give a his- 
tory of its organization ; the date of its organization ; and if it ever had 
any other name, state what it was. — A. This organization was formed 
under a charter originally from the State of Pennsylvania, in 1859, which 
was called the Fiscal Agency of the State of Pennsylvania. That is my 
impression of its original title. After two or three years, it having done 
nothing, I believe, under the old organization, it was procured by the 
owners and managers of the Union Pacific Pailroad Company, who in- 



2 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

tended it to be a contracting company for the bnilding of the Pacific 
Eailroad, as I understood. Then its name was changed from the Penn- 
sylvania Fiscal Agency to that of the Credit Mobilier of America. I 
do not remember exactly at what time; probably in 1863. 

Q. Who were the officers of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, 
who procured that charter or transfer? — A. I think the manager was 
the then vice-president of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, Thomas 
C. Durant, of New York ; John A. Dix was president at that time. 

Q. Were there any other officers of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany connected with that transaction at that time ? — A. I could not' say 
about that ; I suppose that Mr. Durant was the man who procured that 
charter, and, as I understood it, it was. procured for the purpose of 
building this road. 

Q. Are there any books or papers showing the character of that 
transaction and the persons connected with it in existence ; and, if so, 
where may they be found f — A. There are, I suppose ; Oliver W. 
Barnes was the secretary of the Credit Mobilier ; he was a resident of 
Philadelphia then. 

Q. Are these books or papers a part of the books and papers of the 
Credit Mobilier, and are they now in the custody of the officers of that 
corporation % — A. I presume they are ; I said Mr. Barnes was secretary : 
I think, perhaps, he was the treasurer ; he was, as I understood, in 
those early times of the organization of this company the principal man 
that I knew anything about. 

Q. Can you now give the names of the persons who were parties to 
the original organization of this Credit Mobilier ? — A. Thomas C. Durant 
was president : Henry C. Crane, of New York, was assistant treasurer, 
and I think Oliver W. Barnes was the treasurer. Who the secretary 
was I do not know, and who the other parties at that time in control 
were I do not remember, if I ever knew. 

Q. Was this association organized upon articles of association signed 
by the persons engaged in this enterprise, and were their stock-books 
opened % — A. Yes ; it was a regular corporation and had very good 
powers as a corporation ; it was procured by these parties as an agency 
to build the Pacific Eailroad. They regarded it as utterly impossible 
to build the road under the bill which was given them by Congress, 
except through the intervention of a contracting company or a corpora- 
tion like this ; they took this corporation for that purpose, as I under- 
stood, merely as a contracting company. 

Q. Where has the business office of the Credit Mobilier been kept 
since its organization % — A. They had what is called a New York agency, 
or bureau, which did the business principally, although it was a Penn- 
sylvania corporation. They had a right, under authority which was 
given them by the Pennsylvania legislature, to establish an agency or 
bureau, as they called it, in New York, which they did, and their busi- 
ness was transacted chiefly there. 

Q. Have you with you any printed or written copies of any papers to 
which reference has been made in your testimony? — A. No, sir; I have 
not. 

Q. Was the office or business place of this company ever transferred 
or removed to the city of Boston ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Where was this office in the city of New York ?— X. Most of the 
time, I believe, it was 20 Nassau street. 

Q. Where was the office of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — 
A. That was in the same building — the same block. 

Q. Were these two offices kept in the same room 1 — A. I think not. 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 3 

Q. Who are the officers of the Credit Mobilier now ? — A. Sidney Dillon 
is president; Benjamin F. Ham is secretary and treasurer ; and Dillon, 
Ham, and Eoland G. Hazard, I believe, are directors ; I do not know 
who the other directors are. They have been changed since I have been 
there. 

Q. Where is the office of this company now % — A. The New York 
agency is still kept np, and the business chiefly transacted there. 

Q. Has it no other office or place of business except New York ? — 
A. It has ; in Philadelphia, afc 524 Walnut street, I think. I may be 
mistaken as to the number. The New York office is now at 52 Wall street. 

Q. Where does Mr. Ham reside ? — A. He resides in New Jersey, some 
twelve or fifteen miles from New York. I think in Elizabeth, or not far 
from there. 

Q. Who is the custodian of the books and papers of the Credit Mo- 
bilier at present ? — A. Mr. Ham, I believe. 

Q. Where are these books : at the Philadelphia or New York office % — 
A. I believe a part of them are in Philadelphia, and part in New York. 

Q. How long - has Mr. Ham held that office? — A. I think since May 
19, 18G9. 

Q. Who preceded him as secretary % — A. I think Mr. Crane did. 

Q. Has there ever been any other secretary except Mr. Crane and 
Mr. Ham \ — A. I do not think there has since I have had any knowledge 
of it. 

Q. Are there books or papers showing the amount of the capital 
stock, the names of the stockholders, the amount of stock held by each, 
the money paid in on stock, the contracts and the money expended, and 
the dividends declared and paid % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Are you now in any way connected with the Union Pacific Kail- 
road Company; and, if so, in what way? — A. I am not; and have no 
interest in it of any consequence. 

Q. Are you a stockholder % — A. I have a very few shares. 

Q. State the names of the officers and directors of that company. — 
A. Horace F. Clark, president; John Duff, vice-president; E. H. 
Rollins, treasurer and secretary; H. B. Wilbur, auditor. Directors: 
Horace F. Clark, New York : Augustus Schell, New York ; James H. 
Banker, New York ; Oliver Ames, Boston ; John Duff, Boston ; Elisha 
Atkins, Boston; Oakes Ames, Boston; L. P. Morton, New York; B. 
E. Bobbins, Boston ; James Brooks, New York ; G. M. Dodge, 
Council Bluffs, Iowa ; Sidney Dillon, New York ; C. S. Bushnell, New 
Haven ; Geo. M. Pullman, Chicago ; P. Gordon Dexter, Boston. 
Government Directors : B. F. Wade, Jefferson, Ohio ; Hiram Price, 
Davenport, Iowa ; James F. Wilson, Fairfield, Iowa; J. C. S. Harrison, 
Indianapolis, Indiana ; David S. Ruddock, New London, Connecticut. 

Q. Where is the business office of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany now % — A. In Boston. 

Q. Who is the custodian of the books of that corporation ? — A. The 
treasurer, Mr. Rollins, I suppose. The books are at the office of the 
company, in Sears' building, Boston. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. At the time of the contract made with the Credit Mobilier Com- 
pany for the construction of a part of the Union Pacific Railroad, how 
much of the capital stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company had 
been subscribed and actually paid in, according to the best of your rec- 
ollection % — A. Not a great deal had then been paid in ; perhaps two 
or three hundred thousand dollars. 



4 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. When that contract was made, who were the principal men of 
interest in, and controlling, the Union Pacific Bailroad ? — A. The prin- 
cipal stockholders at that time I could not now give. Mr. Durant and 
General Dix were among them. Not more than two or three hundred 
thousand dollars had been paid in, and that was a percentage on the 
shares taken. The first contract for the construction of the Union 
Pacific Bailroad was made, I think, by a Mr. Hoxie, and transferred to 
the Credit Mobilier. The original parties to the contract had broken 
down. They had gone on for awhile, but had concluded they would 
rather lose what they had put in than go on. Then they came to Bos- 
ton, and got Mr. Ames to go into it. But it was determined that the 
only safe basis to go on with it was through the medium of a contract- 
ing company, and they procured the Credit Mobilier for that purpose. 
My subscription was to the Credit Mobilier, originally, for 500 shares. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. The contract for 247 miles of road ; then, was practically with the 
Credit Mobilier ? — A. Practically it was. 

Q. The subsequent contracts for building the Union Pacific Bailroad 
were made directly with the Credit Mobilier % — A. No, sir ; not at all. 
The Credit Mobilier never had anything to do with building the road, 
except the first 247 miles. When I went into the direction of the 
Credit Mobilier the Hoxie contract had been transferred to it. After 
that contract was completed, Mr. Durant said the Credit Mobilier 
should never have another contract while it was under the control of 
the men who were called the " Ames party," and it never had, except 
in this way : The Credit Mobilier agreed to guarantee the fulfillment of 
the Ames contract for a consideration, and furnish money, when called 
upon, for which they were to have two and a half per cent, commission. 
When called upon, however, they were unable to furnish the money, 
and, therefore, they never had really any such connection, and I believe 
the formal connection ceased a few months afterward. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. The whole business of the Credit Mobilier consisted in this con- 
tract of 247 miles, and their whole property consisted in profits they 
made on that contract ? — A. No ; their property consisted, in addition 
to that in the capital, of $3,750,000, which was paid in money. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Who contracted for building the balance of the road ? — A. There 
were something over 800 miles of the road remaining to be built. 
Oakes Ames took a contract to build 667 miles, with the privilege of 
building the balance, if he should conclude to do so. But after the 667 
miles were built, under this contract, he declined to take the remainder, 
and it was built, I understand, for and on account of the stockholders 
of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company. The condition of the contract 
given to Mr. Ames, and the only condition he would take it upon, was 
that it should receive the consent of all the stockholders of the Union 
Pacific Bailroad Company at that time. 

Q. That portion of the road, then, which Mr. Ames declined to build 
under the provisions of this contract was built in the interest of the 
stockholders ; by whom was it built ; was it a contract let to any one I 
— A. There was a contract made with a man by the name of Davis ; 
but I think it could not be put through under his contract, and it was 
finally built for and on account of the Union Pacific Bailroad stock- 
holders at that time. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 5 

Q. What interest did the Credit Mobilier have in the Ames contract, 
either at the time it was made or subsequently by transfer or assign- 
ment % — A. The corporation had no interest except as I have described. 
When Mr. Ames took this contract it was subject to the assent of the 
stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company; but he said he 
knew the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier were the parties to whom 
it realty belonged ; and if there was any benefit to be derived from it he 
thought it was fair and just to give every stockholder in the Credit 
Mobilier the right to come in and take an interest under his contract on 
signing an agreement to become personally liable, and that was re- 
garded as satisfactory. I think he assigned the contract to seven 
trustees, for and on account of the individuals who were stockholders 
in the Credit Mobilier, and that they were to have an interest in his 
contract in pro rata proportion to their ownership of stock in that com- 
pany. That was the original design with the Credit Mobilier, who built 
the road. The contract was not given to the Credit Mobilier on account 
of the feeling against it on the part of the chief men and managers of 
the Union Pacific Kailroad Company ; but they gave it to Mr. Ames ; 
and all the parties interested had perfect confidence in him that he 
would do what was right, and would give to every man an interest such 
as belonged to him. The contract was executed in that way. The 
Credit Mobilier, as a corporation, had no jurisdiction over or voice in it, 
or anything to do with it. 

Q. Were there any dividends declared by the Credit Mobilier? — 
A. Yes, sir; there were two dividends of 6 per cent. each. I think these 
were all the Credit Mobilier, as a corporation, ever declared. 

Q. Were there profits made from the Ames contract ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you remember the amounts? — A. I think I can tell pretty 
nearly. The Oakes Ames contract amounted to $47,000,000. In a suit 
which was brought for taxes, in the State courts of Pennsylvania, I was 
a witness. I was then a director of the road, and of the Credit Mobilier, 
and had occasion to make out a statement for use in that suit, which, 
I think, was entirely accurate. The dividends upon that contract were 
the only profits amounting to anything ever made by the Credit Mobilier 
or anybody else in building the road, and these profits were between 
$8,000,000 and $9,000,000 upon that contract, estimating it upon this 
basis : The road was finished and opened, I think, in May, 1869. I took 
the average market- value of the stock and bonds which they received 
in payment of this contract between that date and January 1, 1870. 
Upon that basis, which everybody regarded as a fair basis, taking the 
average market- value for that period of over seven months, the profits 
would amount to between $8,000,000 and $9,000,000. 

Q. Were these profits divided among the stockholders of the Credit 
Mobilier % — A. They divided the profits during the progress of the work, 
in some instances, sooner than it should have been done, and the conse- 
quence was, that before the contract was finished they had to call upon 
the parties for a large sum of money. Mr. Ames aided them to the 
amount of several millions, and they all had to do a good deal. 

Q. Where are the books and papers showing these transactions and 
this division of the profits % — A. These books are in the hands of the 
trustees of that contract. I suppose they are in Boston. 

Q. Who are the trustees? — A. Oliver Ames, Benjamin E. Bates, John 
Duff, Thomas C. Durant, Sidney Dillon, and H. S. McCoinb. That is 
my recollection of the names. 

Q. Do you know whether they have a secretary, or any officer, who is 
the special custodian of these books and papers ?— A. They are in the 



b CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

custody of the treasurer, I believe, BeDJainin E. Bates, president of the 
Bank of Commerce. 

Q. Will the books of the Credit Mobilier show anything on this sub- 
ject ? — A. No, sir ; not at all. They had nothing to do with it. There 
was a part of the road in dispute — I think about one hundred miles, 
which was compromised in some way — and I suppose the books of the 
Credit Mobilier would show in regard to that. I believe it was 'out of 
that these two dividends of 6 per cent, each were made. 

Q. State whether the shareholders of the Union Pacific Bailroad all 
consented to the Ames contract. — A. Yes, sir, I presume so, at least with 
two or three trifling exceptions ; but I cannot recall any to mind now, 
except Brigham Young. I believe his stock was afterward purchased 
by Mr. Dillon or some one, so that finally they all came in. Brigham 
Young never made any objection to the contract that I heard of, and the 
only reason of his not assenting was that he was away in Salt Lake 
City. 

Q. Was there any assent given by the Government, so far as you know, 
to this contract I — A. I do not think there was. It was not regarded 
that the Government had any interest in it at that time, except to have 
the road built according to the conditions that had been agreed upon. 



Washington, D. C, January 10, 1873. 
Oakes Ames, a member of the House of ^Representatives, sworn and 
examined. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Question. Do you know of any further documents which would give 
additional light in this investigation other than those mentioned by Mr. 
Alley ? — Answer. No, sir ; I know of nothing that would give any more 
light than the books of the company. 

Q. Then all the information that the committee desire upon that sub- 
ject has been communicated by Mr. Alley in his testimony ? — A. I think 
he has named all the books and papers that bear upon the question. 

Q. Have you any documents in your possession that would throw 
light upon the subject ? — A. I have no documents except printed copies 
of the contract, and other papers filed in this case in Philadelphia, 
which I will furnish to the committee^ if they desire. 

Q. Have you a copy of the assent of the stockholders of the Union 
Pacific Bailroad to the Oakes Ames contract? — A. I do not know that 
I have ; that would be in the possession of the trustees. 

The committee adjourned until January 14. 



Washington. D. C, January 14, 1873. 
The committee met at 7.30 p. m. Present, the chairman, (Mr. Wilson, 
of Indiana,) and Messrs. Hoar, Skellabarger, and Swann. 

Benjamin F. Ham sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : 
Question. Where do you reside? — Answer. In Xew Jersey. 
Q. Do you know of a corporation known as the Credit Mobilier ot 
America? — A. I do. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. i 

Q. Are you an officer of that corporation ? — A. I am assistant secre- 
tary and treasurer, and also a director. 

Q. Have you the custody of the books of that corporation % — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Have you them here with you % — A. Yes. 

Q. Have you a copy of the act or charter under which that corpora- 
tion is organized? — A. Yes, (producing it.) 

Q. Is this document which you have handed to me the original act of 
incorporation and the amendments thereto ? — A. It is the original act 
of incorporation. It does not contain all the amendments. 

Q. How many amendments are there to this act % — A. I know only of 
one. There may be others. 

Q. Have you a copy of that one ! — A. Eo, sir ; I have. not. 

Q. Look at this paper that I show you, and state whether that is a 
copy of it. — A. I should take it to be. 

Q. Have you any doubt about if? — A. JTo, sir ; none in the world; I 
take that to be a copy of it. 

The charter and the amendment were put in evidence, as follows : 

No. 715. 

AN ACT to incorporate the Pennsylvania Fiscal Agencj-. 

Section 1. Be it enacted by the senate and house of representatives of the Commonwealth of 
Pennsylvania in general assembly met, and it is hereby enacted by the authority of the same, 
That Samuel J. Reeves, Ellis Lewis, Garrick Mallory, Duff Greeu, David R. Porter, 
Jacob Ziegler, Charles M. Hall, Horn R. Kneass, Robert J. Ross, William T. Dougherty, 
Isaac Hugus, C. M. Reed, William Workman, Asa Packer, Jesse Lazear, C. S. Kauffman, 
C. L. Ward; and Henry M. Fuller be, and they are hereby, appointed commissioners to 
receive subscriptions and to organize a company, by the name and style of the Penn- 
sylvania Fiscal Agency; and the owners of the shares herein authorized to be issued, 
when the company is organized, shall, under the name and style aforesaid, have per- 
petual succession ; and may purchase, hold, and acquire, by any lawful means, estate, 
real and personal, and the same may use, sell, lease, let, mortgage, transfer, and convey, 
and otherwise dispose of ; and may sue and be sued, plead and be impleaded, contract 
and be contracted with, and have and use a common seal, and the same may change 
at pleasure; and may make by-laws and regulations for the government of their 
affairs, and may have and use all the rights, powers, and privileges which are or may 
be necessary for them to have as a company incorporated for the purposes herein stated : 
Provided, That the said company shall not at any time hold, in this State, more land 
than may be requisite for the convenient transaction of their business. 

Sec. 2. That the purpose of this act is to organize an incorporated company, and to 
authorize them, as such, to become an agency for the purchase and sale of railroad 
bonds and other securities, and to make advances of money and of credit to railroad 
and other improvement companies, and to aid in like manner contractors and manu- 
facturers, and to authorize them as a company to make all requisite contracts, and 
especially To receive and hold, on deposit and in trust, estate, real and personal, includ- 
ing the notes, bonds, obligations, and accounts of States, and of individuals, and of 
companies, and of corporations, and the same to purchase, collect, adjust, and settle, 
and also to sell and dispose thereof in any market in the United States, or elsewhere, 
without proceeding in law or in equity, and for such price and on such terms as may 
be agreed on between them and the parties contracting with them, and also to indorse 
and guarantee the payment of the bonds, and the performance of the obligations of 
individuals, of corporations, and of companies. 

Sec. 3. That the capital stock of said company shall consist of fifty thousand shares, 
of one hundred dollars each ; and the commissioners aforesaid, or a majority of them, 
may, in person or by proxy, open books of subscription at such times and places as 
they deem expedient, and when five thousand shares shall have been subscribed, and 
five per centum thereon shall have been paid in, the shareholders may elect five or 
more directors ; and the directors of the said company, when it shall have been organ- 
ized may, and they are hereby authorized and empowered to have and to exercise, in 
the name and behalf of the company, all the rights, powers, and privileges which are 
intended to be herein given ; and may, from time to time, increase their resources by 
borrowing money on a pledge of their property, or without such pledge, or by new 
subscriptions, not exceeding fifty thousand shares; and any citizen or subject, com- 
pany or corporation, of any State or county, may subscribe for, purchase. 'and hold 



8 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

shares of the said company, with all the rights arid subject only to such liabilities as 
other shareholders are subject to ; which liabilities are no more than for the payment 
to the company of the sums due or to become due on the shares held by them ; and 
when new subscriptions are made, the shares may be issued at par or sold, for the ben- 
efit of the holders of the shares heretofore issued. 

Sec. 4. That the by-laws shall prescribe the manner in which the officers and agents 
of the company shall be chosen, and designate their powers and duties, and their terms 
of service and compensation ; and the principal office of the company shall be in Phila- 
delphia, but the directors,, under such rules and regulations as they may prescribe, may 
establish branches and agencies in Europe and elsewhere, and may deal in exchange, 
foreign and domestic ; but the said company shall not exercise the privilege of bank- 
ing, nor issue their own notes or bills to be used as bank-notes or as currency. 

Sec. 5. That three-fifths of the directors of the said company shall be citizens of the 
United States, and the majority of the whole shall reside in this State. 

Sec. 6. That the said company shall pay to the State treasurer, for the use of the 
State, a bonus of one-half of one per centum on the sum requisite to be paid in pre- 
vious to the organization, payable in four equal annual installments, the first payment 
to be made in one year after the payment on the capital stock shall be made, and also 
a like bonus on all subsequent payments on account of the capital stock of the said 
company, or any increase thereof, payable in like manner ; and, in addition to such 
bonus, shall pay such tax upon dividends exceeding six per centum per annum as is or 
may be. imposed by law. 

W. C. A. LAWRENCE, 
Speaker of the House of Bepresentatives. 
JNO. CRESWELL, Jr., 

Speaker of the Senate. 

Approved the first day of November, anno Domini one thousand eight hundred and 
fifty-nine. 

WM. F. PACKER. 

Office of the Secretary of the Commonwealth, 

Harrisburgh, November 1, A. D. 1859. 
I do hereby certify that the foregoing is a full, true, and correct copy of the original 
act of the general assembly, as the same remains on file in this office. 

In testimony whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the secre- 
tary's office to be affixed, the day and year above written. 

WM. M. HIESTER, 
Secretary of the Commonwealth. 
Pennsylvania, ss : 

[Seal of secretary's office, Pennsylvania.] 



LETTERS-PATENT SIGNED BY THE GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIA. 

Pennsylvania, ss : 

A. G. Curtin. 

[L.S-j 

In the name and by the authority of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Andrew 
G. Curtin, governor of the said Commonwealth, 

To all whom these presents shall come, sends greeting: 

Whereas an act of the general assembly of this Commonwealth, entitled "An act to 
incorporate the Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency," approved the 1st day of November, A. D. 
1859, provides for the organization of a company by the name, style, and title of "The 
Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency ;" 

And whereas the commissioners, in accordance with said act of the general assembly, 
have made application to me for the issuing of letters-patent to said company; and 
whereas the stipulations and things in the said act directed to be performed have in all 
respects been fully complied with: Now, know ye, that in pursuance of the power and 
authority to me given by law, I, Andrew G. Curtin, governor of the said Commonwealth, 
do, by these presents, which I have caused to be made patent and sealed with the great 
seal of the State, create and erect the subscribers to the stock of the said company for 
the number of shares by them subscribed, viz : 

Samuel T. Billmeyer, four shares, 

Oliver W. Barnesi two thousand four hundred and ninety-six shares, 

Charles M. Hall, two thousand four hundred and ninety-five shares, 

E. Reed Myor, five shares, 

Duane Wiiliams, three shares. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. V 

Charles Williams, three shares, 

Samuel L. Clements, three shares, and 

David R. Porter, three hundred and twenty shares, 

Amounting in the whole to five thousand three hundred and twenty-nine shares ; 

And, also, those who shall afterwards suhscribe to the stock of the said company, 
into one body politic, and corporate in deed and in law, by the name, style, and title of 
" The Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency." And by the said name the subscribers shall have 
perpetual succession, and all the privileges and franchises incident to a corporation ; 
and the said subscribers, and those who shall afterwards subscribe, their successors 
and assigns, are generally to be invested with all ther ights, powers, and privileges, 
with full force and effect, and be subject to all the duties, requisitions, and restrictions 
specified and enjoined in and by the said act of the general assembly, and all other 
laws of this CoinmNmwealth. 

Given under my hand and the great seal of the State at Harrisburgh, this first day of 
June, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, and of the 
Commonwealth the eighty-seventh. 

By the governor : 

(Signed) ELI SLIFER, 

Secretary of the Commonwealth. 

AN ACT to change the name of The Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency. 

Section 1. Be it enacted by the senate and house of representatives of the Common- 
wealth of Pennsylvania in general assembly met, and it is' hereby enacted by the au- 
thority of the same : 

That from and after the passage of this act " The Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency" shall 
be named instead thereof " The Credit Mobilier of America," with all the powers, privi- 
leges, and authorities they had under their former name, and be subject to all the 
restrictions and liabilities to which they were subject to under the same. 

HENRY C. JOHNSON, 
Speaker of the House of Representatives. 
JOHN P. PENNEY, 

Speaker of the Senate. 

Approved the twenty-sixth day of March, anno, Domini one thousand eight hundred 
and sixty-four. 

A. G. CURTLN. 

Office of the Secretary of the Commonwealth, Pennsylvania, 

Harrisburgh, March 28, A. D. 1864. 
I do hereby certify that the foregoing and annexed is a full, true, and correct copy 
of the original act of the general assembly entitled "An act to change the name of 
'The Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency/" as the same remains on file in this office. 

In testimony whereof, I have hereunto set my hand, and caused the seal of the sec- 
retary's office to be affixed, the day and year above written. 
[L. s.] W. H. ARMSTRONG, 

Deputy Secretary of the Commonwealth. 

No. 3. 
second amendment of charter. 

No. 278.— February 28, 1867. 

Be it enacted, $c. } That in every case where the Credit Mobilier of America, a body 
corporate established by the laws of this Commonwealth, has heretofore agreed, or shall 
hereafter agree, to aid any contractor with a railroad company by advancing money to 
such contractor, or by guaranteeing the execution of a contract for the building, con- 
struction, or equipment of a railroad, or for materials or rolling-stocks, it shall be law- 
ful for the said Credit Mobilier of America to take such measures as will tend to secure 
the full and faithful performance of the contract, and the said Credit Mobilier may to 
that end appoint its own officer, agent, or superintendent to execute the contract 
in the place of the contractor so aided or guaranteed; saving, nevertheless, to all par- 
ties their just rights under the contracts according to their true intent and meaning. 
(Signed) JOHN R. GLASS, 

Speaker of the House of Representatives. 
LOUIS W. HALL, 
Speaker of the Senate. 
Approved February 28, 1867, by 

JOHN W. GEARY, 

. Governor, $~c. 



10 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. When was the corporation, the Credit Mobilier of America, organ- 
ized under that charter ? — A. This book shows that the first meeting 
was on the 29th of May, 1863. That was a meeting of the stockholders 
of the Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency. It was originally the Pennsylvania 
Fiscal Agency, as the charter shows. 

Q. Does that book show the organization of the corporation now 
known as the Credit Mobilier ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who were the original stockholders of the Credit Mobilier, and 
what amount of stock did each one subscribe for ? — A. Charles M. Hall. 
2,421 shares of $100 each ; Oliver W. Barnes, 2,420 shares of $100 each. 
There were three or four other parties who had small amounts of stock. 
I cannot give the names. It was long before I had anything to do 
with the organisation. 

Q. Are there any books or papers in your possession that will show 
who the original stockholders were ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Has there ever been any such book, of which you have any knowl- 
edge ? — A. Not that I know of. There may have been. 

Q. Have any books or papers of that corporation been lost, destroyed, 
or carried away since you have been connected with it? — A. Some of 
them have been lost. 

Q. Do you know what books were lost ? — A. The transfer-books were 
lost — the transfers of stock. 

Q. Any others ? — A. I do not know of any others. 

Q. When were those transfer-books lost? — A. They were lost in my 
possession in December, 1868. 

Q. What became of them then ? — A. That is more than I can tell. 

Q. How did they get out of your possession ? — A. At that time I re- 
signed my position as assistant secretary. 

Q. When were you re-elected ?— A. In May, 1870. 

Q. Were those transfer-books among the books of the company at 
the time you went out of office ? — A. Yes ; there were two of them — 
two transfer-books. 

, Q. And they were not there when you came into office again ? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. Who held that position during the time you were out of office ? — 
A. There was no assistant secretary during that time. 

Q. Who was the officer that had possession of those books during that 
time ? — A. They were around in different places. They were park of 
the time in Philadelphia, and part of the time elsewhere. 

Q. What do you mean by "elsewhere?" — A. They were sometimes in 
New Jersey and sometimes in Philadelphia. 

Q. Who was carrying them about in that way ? — A. They were not 
being carried about ; they were put away in various places. Mr. Dillon, 
as president of the Credit Mobilier, ordered them put away. 

Q. Put away where ? — A. Put away in different places ; I do not know 
where; I did not go with them. I surrendered them to Mr. Dillon 5 he 
took the safe, containing the books and all, and took it away. 

Q. Do you know anything about the purpose for which they were 
carried away ? — A. To avoid process in the James Fisk suit. 

Q. Do you know where Dillon took them when he did take them 
away? — A. No, sir; I do not. 

Q. You never saw them since ? — A. I do not know that he took these 
transfer-books away. I do not know that they wefe in that safe, be- 
cause it was necessary for me to use some of the books, as a clerk, and 
these books may have been left in the office of the Union Pacific Bail- 
road- Company, "and lost then' during the time that the thing was locked 



CREDIT M0BIL1ER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 11 

up. There was a time that I kept out of New York on account of the 
James Fisk suit, and remained at my home in New Jersey for months. 

Q. And you know nothing of these transfer-books since you went out 
of office ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. How long before you went out of office had you seen them ! — A. 
That 1 cannot say. These things are three or four years old, and are 
sot fresh in my memory. 

Q. Had you frequent occasion to use these transfer-books I — A. No, 
sir ; I very seldom used them. There was very little transfer of stock. 

Q. You" have no other means of knowing who were stockholders? — 
A. The stock-ledger shows who were stockholders. 

Q. Where is that stock-ledger ? — A. Here. The transfer-books were 
of no account to anybody. It is possible that I may be able to tell from 
some of these other books who the original parties were. (Turning to 
the page.) Here they are given : 

Cash for capital stock, $26,645 ; D. R. Porter, 320 shares ; S. T. Billmeyer, 4 shares ; 
Oliver W. Barnes, 2,496 shares ; Charles M. Hall, 2,495 shares ; E. R. Meyer, 5 shares : 
D. Williams, 3 shares ; E. Williams, 3 shares ; S. L. Clement, 3 shares. 

These are all of the original stockholders. 

Q. What is the date of that subscription ?— A. May 29, 1SG3, this 
cash seems to have been received. 

Q. Have you any books that will show who have since become stock- 
holders? — A. Yes, sir ; the stock-ledger will show. 

Q. We want to know all who have been stockholders at any time 
after the first organization of the Credit Mobilier down to the present 
time. — A. I will furnish you with a written list. 

Mr. Hoar. Furnish a list of all persons who have held stock, the 
number of shares held by each, the dates, and all the sums paid on 
account of stock, with all sums of money or other property divided or 
allotted to each. — A. The last question is one I cannot answer, because 
I had nothing to do with the books. 

Q. State whether you were ever a stockholder in the Credit Mobilier 
Company yourself. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Are you interested in that stock now ?— A. My son holds three 
shares ; or it is held in trust for him by E. D. Bush, trustee. 

Q. When did he procure that?— A. He procured it in 18G8 or 18G9, 
I cannot say which. 

Q. And you have no interest in the stock of Credit Mobilier except- 
ing that? — A. No, sir. 

Q. How old is your son ? — A. Seven years old. 

Q. Who furnished the money with which to pay for that stock f — A. 
His mother did. 

Q. Out of her separate means? — A. Out of her separate means which 
she had before I married her. 

Q. State to the best of your knowledge what sum of money has been 
paid over to that trustee on account of those three shares. — A. I can 
state that by purchases and sales of the Union Pacific stock there has 
been $700 or $800 realized on these three shares ; but then there have 
been two or three purchases and sales of stock. Stock has been bought 
by me at 20 and sold at 40, and repurchased again. 

Q. Why did you do this if your son's shares were held in trust by 
somebody else ? — A. Because I had the management of it. Mr. Bush 
held it as trustee, and I managed it. 

Q. Hid you receive the dividends on it ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Or the allotments ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Who did receive them ? — A. The allotments that were turned 



12 CKEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

over were turned over to Mr. Bush. The Union Pacific Railroad stock 
was transferred to him. 

Q. Then how did you use it ? — A. He indorsed it, and I sold it. 

Q. Where is the money % — A. The money is in my hands at present. 

Q. These shares that Mr. Bush held for your son, were they paid for 
at a hundred dollars a share ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Has there been by that trustee any money received on these shares 
as dividends % — A. I do not think there has been. I do not know. 

Q. In what way have the profits or allotments on those three shares 
been made I — A. I think they were all made in stock of the Union 
Pacific Bail way Company. That is the only thing I have ever seen. 

Q. What amount of stock of the Union Pacific Railway Company 
has been received on these shares % — A. That I cannot tell you. 

Q. Give your best recollection.— A. I cannot say whether it was four- 
teen or fifteen shares ; it was something like that. 

Q. What was their par value ? — A. One hundred dollars per share. 

Q. Then that was $1,300 or $1,400 in nominal value that was re- 
ceived % — A. Yes. 

Q. Has there been anything else of value received, directly or indi- 
rectly, on account of that stock % — A. I do not think there has been. 

Q. Any bonds % — A. I do not think there has been, "there could not 
be any bonds, because it was too small an amount. 

Q. Have these shares been sold ! — A. Yes. 

Q. What sum, has been realized from them by this trustee? — A. About 
seven hundred or eight hundred dollars. 

Q. What has become of the three Credit Mobilier shares f — A. They 
are still held by the trustee. 

Q. They have not been sold ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have those three shares, so far as you know, received any more 
than their proportion as compared with other stock of the Credit Mo- 
bilier %— A. Mind that this $700 or $800 is not the result of dividends 
alone. It is the result of purchases and sales since the dividends 
were made — selling the stock and buying it again. 

Q. At the time you received the 14 or 15 shares of Union Pacific 
stock, what was its market value % — A. That I do not recollect. . 

Q. What is your best judgment of the matter? — A. I have no best 
judgment about it. 

Q. How long ago is this ! — A. Three or four years ago. I paid very 
little attention to it. 

Q. You had the practical managment of the matter % — A. Yes, but 
I paid little attention to it. It was a small matter. 

Q. Was the stock worth par at that time % — A. No, sir ; it was not 
worth 50 cents on the dollar. 

Q. You paid attention enough to it to know that ?— A. Yes. 

Q. Was it worth forty % — A. No ; I should think it was worth about 
twenty. 

Q. But you afterward realized forty upon it % — A. Yes. 

Q. Now I will come back to the question; did these three shares, so 
far as you know and believe, receive as much and no more in proportion 
as the other shares in the Credit Mobilier % — A. I presume they received 
the same. 

Q. You say that the whole capital stock of the Credit Mobilier 
was A. Three million seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars. 

Q. And you think that on account of that $3,750,000, stock in the 
Union Pacific Railroad was realized by the holders of the Credit Mo- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 13 

bilier stock in the proportion of fourteen to three ? — A. No, sir ; I do 
not. 

Q. I understood you that you got thirteen or fourteen shares of Union 
Pacific stock for the three shares of Credit Mobilier held for your son? — 
A. That may be ; but I did not get bonds or anything else. Other par- 
ties received bonds. 

Q. What kind of bonds were received ? — A. Those bonds were divided 
by the trustees, and they can explain the matter. 

Q. I want to get at your general knowledge ; you were the secretary 
of the company ? — A. I had nothing to do with the dividends as secre- 
tary of the company. 

Q. You were in fact secretary of the company ? — A. Yes. 

Q. And you had a minor son who was a stockholder, and his stock 
was held in trust under your direction ? — A. Yes. 

Q. What did you understand was received in bonds by other share- 
holders ? — A. That I cannot call to mind now. I have not the books, 
and I have no memory upon it. 

Q. What was your understanding at the time upon the subject ? — A. 
Having so little interest in it, I paid no particular attention to these divi- 
dends. I had plenty of business of my own to attend to. 

By Mr. SwANN : 

Q. Where is that information to be got ? — A. Mr. Crane or Mr. Durant 
will furnish the information. 

Mr. Durant. I have books that will furnish all this information, and 
the names of all the parties. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Who were the first board of directors of the Credit Mobilier Com- 
pany ? — A. David R. Porter, Oliver W. Barnes, Samuel T. Billmeyer, E- 
Keed Myer, Charles M. Hall, and Jacob Ziegler. 

Q. When were they elected ?— A. On the 29th of May, 1863. 

Q. When was the board organized by the election of officers of the 
board and who were the officers? — A. The record shows that it was 
organized on May 29, 1863. The officers were Jacob Ziegler, president ; 
Oliver Barnes, secretary ; and Charles M. Hall, treasurer. 

Q. When was the next election? — A. The next election was July 26 1 
1865. 

Q. Who were elected then as directors ? — A. Thomas C. Durant, G. 
Griswold Gray, J. M. S. Williams, J. H. Scranton, Oliver W. Barnes, 
Paul Pohl, jr.,' and Charles M. Hall. 

Q. Who were elected officers of the board? — A. Thomas C. Durant 
was elected president and Oliver W. Barnes secretary and treasurer. 

Q. When was the next election?— A. May 19, 1866. 

Q. Who were elected directors then ? — A. Oliver W. Barnes, J. W. 
Scranton, Paul Pohl, jr., Benedict B. Stewart, Thomas C. Durant, G. 
Griswold Gray, and John M. S. Williams. 

Q. Who were elected officers of that board ? — A. Thomas C. Durant 
was elected president, and Oliver W. Barnes secretary and treasurer. 

Q. When was the next election ?— A. May 18, 1867. 

Q. Who were elected directors then ? — A. Oliver W. Barnes, Eobert 
G. S. McNeal, Benedict B. Stewart, Paul Pohl, jr., Sidney Dillon, John 
B. Alley, and Roland G. Hazzard. 

Q. Who were elected officers of the board ? — A. Sidney Dillon was 
elected president, and Oliver W. Barnes secretary and treasurer. 

Q. When was the next election ?— A. May 16, 1868.. 

Q. Who were elected directors then ? — A. Oliver W. Barnes, Paul 



14 CREDIT MOBILIEE AND ONION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Pohl, jr., Charles M. Ghriskey, Thomas Rowland, Sidney Dillon, John B. 
Alley, and Roland G. Hazzard. 

Q. Who were the officers ? — A. Sidney Dillon president, and Oliver 
W. Barnes secretary and treasurer. 

Q. When was the next election of directors? — A. May 21, 1870. 

Q. Who were elected directors then ? — A. R. G. Hazzard, Sidney 
Dillon, Paul Pohi, jr., Charles M. Ghriskey, Thomas Roland, Francis JEL 
.Janvier, and B. F. Ham. 

Q. Who were the officers ? — A. Francis H. Janvier was elected secre- 
tary and Sidney Dillon president. 

Q. When was the next election ? — A. I think that that election in 
1870 was the last. 

Q. Did this corporation at any time engage in the construction of the 
Union Pacific Railway ? — A. It had charge of building the road to the 
hundredth meridian. 

Q. When did it first engage in that work ? — A. Those other witnesses 
who had charge of it can tell yo*a more definitely than I can. 

Q. Is there any entry on the books that will show when the Credit 
Mobiiier engaged first in the construction of the Union Pacific Railway % 
— A. The Credit Mobiiier advanced money to it, and I can show you 
when that first took place, but I am not familiar with the workings 
of it, as it was done before I had anything to do with the concern. The 
Credit Mobiiier never built any of the Union Pacific Railroad after I 
*became an officer. The company paid on account of construction under 
the Hoxie contract, on March 20, 18G5,- $202,770. That was the first 
payment. 

Q. On what kind of contract or arrangement did the Credit Mobiiier 
advance money to the Union Pacific Railway Company ? — A. I do not 
know that it did advance any money to the Union Pacific Railway Com- 
pany, except to lend it the same as to any one else. If the Credit Mobiiier 
Company had any money it did not need, it would lend it. 

Q. Have you any paper or memorandum showing the nature of those 
loans and what kind of obligation was given by the Union Pacific Rail- 
way Company, or any one else?— A. There were no obligations given at 
all. It was nothing but a book account. If the Credit Mobiiier lent any 
money to the Union Pacific Railway Company, it was simply on book 
account. 

Q. There was no note? — A. No note and no obligation. 

Q. Or acceptance of any kind ? — A. No, sir; and no securities, if it 
lent the Union Pacific Company any money. 

Q. Have you the Hoxie contract here % — A. No, sir ; I have not. 

Q. Was that contract ever transferred to the Credit Mobiiier ? — A. It 
was transferred by the failure of Mr. Hoxie to execute it. 

Q. Where is that contract % — A. In New York. 

Q. W T hy did you not bring that with you? — A. I did not understand 
that you wanted it. 

Q. Can you produce a copy of the Hoxie contract ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Durant. Copies of all the contracts are here. 

Q. Do you know why that Hoxie contract was assigned to the Credit 
Mobiiier? — A. I do not; I suppose it was because Hoxie tailed to carry 
it out, and the Credit Mobiiier took it. 

Q. Do you know anything of a contract entered into by Oakes Ames 
with the Union Pacific Company for the construction of the road ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you copies of that contract here \ — A. No, sir ; I have one in 
my possession. 






CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 15 

Q. You were examined as a witness in the case of the Credit Mobilier 
of America against the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, were you not? 
— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Look at this document, (handing to witness a printed pamphlet,) 
and see whether that is a correct copy of the Oakes Ames contract, 
commencing on page 14. — A. I should say that this was correct; it looks 
as if it were correct. 

Q. Was that contract assigned by Mr. Ames? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Look at the document I show you, commencing at page 19, and 
state whether or not that is a copy of the assignment of the contract. — 
A. I should take it to be a copy. 

(Copies of the contract and assignment are appended to the testimony.) 

Q. This contract and the assignment were made after you became 
secretary of the company ? — A. Yes, after I became the assistant secre- 
tary. 

Q. Have you any agreement, papers, or memoranda showing the 
assent of shareholders in the Credit Mobilier to the terms of that assign- 
ment ¥ — A. No, sir ; they were never asked to assent to it. They con- 
sented in another manner. 

'Q. In what manner did they assent % — A. They assented to the trus- 
tees. 

Q. You have no copies of that assent ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. State whether or not, under this contract and the assignment 
thereof, the Credit Mobilier proceeded in this work. — A. No, sir ; it had 
nothing to do with it. 

Q. Was there ever any relinquishment on the part of the Credit 
Mobilier of the interest which it acquired under that contract \ — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Have you a copy of it? — A. No, sir; I have not. 

Q. Where is it f — A. I do not know. 

Q. Was it ever among the books or papers of the Credit Mobilier I — 
A. No, sir ; I never held a copy of it. 

Q. How many dividends have been declared by the Credit Mobilier ? 
— A. Onlv one. • 



Q. When was that declared ? — A. It was declared in December, 186 



Q. What was the amount of that dividend ! — A. Six per cent, for 
each of the years 1866 and 1867. 

Q. Was the stock of the Credit Mobilier increased at any time; if so, 
when and* what amount ? — A. The capital stock was originally designed 
to be $2,000,000. It was then increased nominally to $2,500,000, but 
not fully. 

Q. When was that increase made ? — A. That I cannot say, for it was 
before I had anything to do with it. 

Q. Do not the books show when that increase was made? — A. The 
stock account shows the time wiien the capital stock was paid in, but 
the capital stock never was made up to the full amount of what it was 
allowed to be. For instance, when it was supposed to be $2,000,000 it 
was not quite that. Then they increased it 25 per cent, to make it 
$2,500,000, but they did not get $2,500,000. Then they increased it 
$1,250,000 with a view to make it $3,750,000. 

Q. That was an increase simply by additional stock ? — A. By addi- 
tional stock, or by allowing old subscribers to take the new stock and 
pay for it. 

Q. When was that done ?— A. The increase of $1,250,000 was done 
in February, 1867. 



16 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. I understand you to say, then, that these stockholders were per- 
mitted to take additional stock ? — A. Yes. 

Q. And that they paid for it dollar for dollar ? — A. Yes, sir. 
Q. What was that stock worth in 1867, at the time that this increase 
of which you have spoken was made !— A. It could be bought for 90 
cents on the dollar. 

Q. At the time the increase was made? — A. Yes; I could have 
bought all I wanted at that. 

Q. Did it increase in value after that ; and, if so, to what extent ? — 
A. It was held at all sorts of fictitious prices. But I do not know of 
actual sales. 

Q. What was it considered worth by those who owned it ? — A. I pre- 
sume they considered it worth from 200 to 300 per cent. 

Q. After the making of the Oakes Ames contract, in 1868, what was 
it worth 1 — A. That was the time they considered it so valuable. 

Q. Was this stock for sale in the market ? — A. No, sir; sales were 
very seldom made. Owners would not part with it. 

Q. Had it got to be considered worth 90 cents on the dollar before the 
Ames contract °? — A. I do not think it did. I have no positive knowl- 
edge of that. * 

Q. You said, a moment ago, that there never was but one dividend 
declared, and that was in 1867 !— A. Yes. 
Q. That was 12 per cent. ? — A. Yes. 

Q. What was it that increased the value of that stock in the estima- 
tion of its holder, if the Credit Mobilier had nothing to do with the 
Ames contract ? — A. It was a prospective value. 

Q. But I understood you to say that the Credit Mobilier had no con- 
nection whatever with the Ames contract ; that it had relinquished all 
its interest in it. Now, what did the prospective value grow out of % — A. 
This interest was not relinquished till afterward. The Credit Mobilier 
stockholders had an interest in the contract, but the Credit Mobilier 
itself did not have an interest. 

Q. If the Credit Mobilier itself had no interest in the contract, why 
should its stock be estimated so high by the holders of it ? — A. Because 
the dividends made by the trustees were payable to the stockholders of 
the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. Then it was from what they expected to be derived from the Oakes 
Ames contract, through the trustees, that the advantage was to come? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know anything in regard to the amount of dividend or 
allotments that were received by the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier 
on account of the Ames contract % — A. Not of my own certain knowledge. 
Q. Are there any books or papers belonging to the Credit Mobilier 
that will show the amount which the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier 
received on account of this Ames contract ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were there ever any such books ? — A. Never, in the possession of 
the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. Were you, at any time, or are you now, an officer of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company 1 — A. I was at one time auditor of the com- 
pany. 

Q. When °?— A. From January, 1867, till October, 1870. 
Q. Are you an officer of that company now % — A. No, I am not. 
Q. During the time that you were an officer of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company, where w r as the office of that company kept 1 — A. Part of 
the time in New York, and part of the time in Boston. 
Q. How much of the time in New York % — A. The office was kept in 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 17 

New York until Congress gave authority to remove the office to 
Boston. 

Q. During that time, while the office was in New York, was the office 
of the Credit Mobilier kept in the same office with the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company ? — A. Yes, sir, it was. 

Q. Was the secretary or the custodian of the books of the Cred i ?■ 
Mobilier Company an officer at the same time of the Union Pacific Eai 
road Company ? — Yes, sir, he was. 

Q. State whether or not, at all times, from 1867 down to this time, the 
officers of the Credit Mobilier Company have also been officers of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company ! — They have not. At the present 
time they are not. 

Q. For what length of time were they, and when were they ?— A. I 
was an officer of both corporations from May, 1867, until December, 1868. 

Q. After that how was it ! — A. After that Mr. Dillon was president ot 
the Credit Mobilier Company, and one of the directors of the Union Pa 
cific Eailroad Company. 

Q. Who was secretary of the Credit Mobilier Company after that — 
A. Oliver W. Barnes. 

Q. What connection had he with the Union Pacific Eailroad Com 
pany? — A. None whatever, except as a stockholder of the Union Pacitic 
Eailroad Company. 

Q. Were there any other officers of the Credit Mobilier who were also 
officers of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 1 — -A. I do not think 
there were. 

Q. Were they stockholders in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ! - 
A. Mr. Hazzard and Mr. Alley were. 

Q. Who were not ? — A. I do not think that any of the rest were stock- 
holders in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. I cannot say whether 
others of them were or not. 

Q. From 1867 down to the time that the office of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company was removed to Boston, were the offices of the two 
corporations in the same place excepting while the Credit Mobilier Com- 
pany was traveling about, as you have already stated! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Prior to 1867, were the offices of these two companies kept to- 
gether? — A. I do not know about that. 

By Mr. SwANN : 
. Q. You have stated that you were the custodian of the archives of 
your company ; have these papers disappeared $ — A. Not while I was 
custodian. They disappeared after I resigned my position. 

Q. Do you know what that box or iron safe contained ! — A. It was a 
regular iron safe. 

Q. Do you know what documents it contained % — A. No, sir; I do not. 
It is some years since it was moved away. 

Q. Did it contain the transfer-books f — A. No, sir ; I do not know 
that it did. My impression is that they were not in it. 

Q. What other papers did it contain % — A. It contained these books 
that I have here. 

Q. And no other valuable books or evidences that you know of? — A. 
No, sir. 

_ Q. You went to the safe occasionally to see what it contained ? — A. 
Yes, but it is some years ago, and I do not recollect. 

Q. Did it contain anything but these books to which you have refer- 
red ? — A. It contained some papers in addition to those books. 

Q. You do not know what those papers were? — A. No, sir; I do not. 
2 c M 



18 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. They might or might not have been valuable papers ?— A. They 
might or might not. I do not think that there was any money or bonds 
in the safe. 

Q. And they disappeared after you resigned or retired from the com- 
pany ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And what became of them you do not know ! — A. No, sir : I do 
not. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Which of the books that belonged to the Credit Mobilier, and that 
were in your hands while you were its secretary, are now lost f — A. The 
transfer- books. 

Q. Do you know of any others % — A. No, I do not. 

Q. Was there any cash-book or journal other than what you have 
here? — A. No, sir; none other than I have here. 

Q. Then you are able to exhibit, so far as you know, all the transac- 
tions of the Credit Mobilier Company, so far as they appeared on the 
books, except these transfer-books f — A. Yes, sir j I could make a new 
transfer-book from what I have here. 

Q. You would be able to make it out from your books of debit and 
credit with the different stockholders! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you understand that there is a copy of the transfer-book in ex- 
stence ? — A. A book was exhibited to me to-day purporting to be a true 
i opy. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. In whose custody ought that safe, in which those papers were 
kept, to be at this time ? — A. That safe is now in my office ; but these 
missing papers were not in that safe, I think. I know that these books 
were not. I know of nothing else that was missing. I do not think the 
transfer- books were in the safe at all. There are some papers still in 
the safe. 

Q. When have you seen the safe last t — A. I saw it yesterday. I did 
not open it. 

Q. Are you satisfied, from the appearance of the safe, that it con- 
tained all the papers that you saw in it formerly, when you had the cus- 
tody of it ? — A. 1 do not think that there are any papers missing from 
that safe that were in it. I do not think that the transfer-books were 
in it at all. 

Q. Where were they kept? — A. They were kept in the vault of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. Do you know whether they exist still ! — A. No, sir ; I do not. If 
I did, I should have made an effort to produce them to-day, for it has 
been somewhat an inconvenience for me to be without them. • 

Q. Where ought they to be? — A. They ougktto be now in my posses- 
sion. 

Q. ITow could they have disappeared ? What is your impression on 
the subject 1 — A. At the time that we locked up the vault on the 19th 
of March, 1868, we did not put in any papers that we could keep out of 
it. I went to New Jersey and staid a month. These papers were stowed 
away, I supposed, and, as the books were books which nobody used but 
myself, they were very probably put away where they could not be found 
by other parties. 

Q. Have you any idea that they were abstracted for any purpose ? — 
A. No, sir, I have not, for there would be no purpose in doing it. 
We have got all the evidence in these books that the others could con- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 19 

tain. There would be, therefore, no object in abstracting them. My im- 
pression is that the books are mislaid ; that is all. The stock-ledger is 
correct. 

By Mr. Siiellabarger : 

Q. How was this stock in the Credit Mobilier taken ; were there books 
pened, and an opportunity given to the public in general to come ino 
and take stock % — A. I do not know ; that was before my time. 

Q. Was there ever any time after you became connected with the 
company when such an opportunity was given ? — A. No, sir. When I 
became an officer of the Credit Mobilier Company the subscription-list 
was completed, or nearly so. 

Q. After you became an officer, what additions were made to the sub- 
scriptions ? — A. About three hundred thousand dollars. 

Q. By whom was that stock taken f — A. It was taken by parties who 
were entitled to it. 

Q. At what dates ! — A. The first was June 1, 18G7, Williams & Guion. 
816,000; the next was John B. Alley, June 29, $5,000; W. H. Mace\% 
8500 ; G. G. Gray, from the 2d to the 15th July, $09,000; December 16, 
Thomas C. Durant, $1G5,500; December 17, George Francis Trainl 
80,000; December 20, Thomas C.t)urant, $7,500; December 20, Thomas 
O. Durant, $5,000 ; December 18, David Jones, $13,000 ; January 18, 
18G8, Henry C. Crane, trustee, $6,000; February 29, Anna Dodge. 
$1,000; March 11, Charles H. Neilson, $5,000; April 1, Oakes Ames, 
trustee, $9,300. That is all the money I received on account of stock. 
That makes the amount up. 

Q. No original stock has been taken since that which you have just 
named? — A. No. sir. The stock was then made up to its full amount, 
83,750,000. 

Q. That includes the 50 per cent, which was added and allowed to 
the original stockholders f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You spoke in your testimony about a dividend of 12 per cent, that 
was made for two years — 6 per cent, a year. Out of what business did 
that dividend arise ? — A. A portion of it must have arisen ou» of the 
business of the Hoxie contract, and a portion of it arose out of the 
profits of the Oakes Ames contract up to a certain period. 

Q. So far as you know, did the Credit Mobilier ever embark in any 
other enterprise, or lend its credit to any other enterprise than in con- 
nection with this railroad 1 ? — A. No, sir." 

Q. Never ?— A. No, sir. 

Q. Then there was no other source of income except under the Hoxie 
contract or the subsequent contracts? — A. No, sir; except its capital 
stock. 

Q. Did it ever loan out any of its capital otherwise than toward for- 
warding this enterprise? — A. No. sir; it may have done so originally. 

Q. Not after it changed its name I — A. Not after it came into the 
hands of the present owners. 

Q. Was that stock ever offered in the market? — A. I presume it can 

e bought now. 

Q. Was there ever a time in which it was offered in the public market 
or quoted for sale ? — A. No, sir; it never was on the stock-list. It never 
was dealt in on the stock exchange. 

Q. What is the first sale that you know of having being made of that 
•>tock at its full value? — A. I cannot recall any one. 

Q. You know of no sale at all being made at its fall value ? — A. Not 
of my own knowledge. 



20 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. There is no time at which you can give us the true value of the 
stock, from any*transactions in it, of your own knowledge 1 — A. No, 
sir ; because I never dealt in it myself. 

Q. You never heard any of the members of the Credit Mobilier say 
what its value was, or what they were able to sell it to strangers at, 
who had no interest in purchasing it except as an article of merchan- 
dise ? — A. I may have heard them say, but I paid no attention to it. 

Q. Can you not recollect now any sales that were made ? — A. No, sir. 
There were very few sales made. I do not think there were a thousand 
shares sold. 

Q. You stated a while ago that there were no dividends ever made by 
this Credit Mobilier as a corporation, except for the two years you men- 
tioned ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. But that all payments that were ever made as profits from the 
Oakes Ames contract were made directly to the stockholders of the 
Credit Mobilier, but not through the corporation % — A. Yes ; it was paid 
to individual stockholders. 

Q. Did all the stockholders participate alike ? — A. Not unless they 
signed a certain agreement. 

Q. Were there any who did not si<m it? — A. I do not know; I had 
nothing to do with the books. 

Q. You were the auditor of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ?— 
A. Yes. 

Q. What were your duties in the office? — A. I had' charge of the 
books and accounts of that company ; I kept them. 

Q". What amount of subscription to the capital stock of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company was, in fact, paid up from first to last by the 
several subscribers to the stock of that company — paid up in cash, ac- 
cording to the requirements of the act of Congress ? — A. The original 
subscribers, the men who took the thousand-dollar shares, sold their 
stock to the Credit Mobilier, except, perhaps, two or three. The Credit 
Mobilier bought up that stock and held it. 

Q. Was your answer that the Credit Mobilier bought up all the stock 
except from two or three subscribers ?— A. Yes ; except from two or 
three parties who held on to it ; and that was a very small amount. 

Q. When did that transaction occur? — A. The Credit Mobilier com- 
menced buying at once. 

Q. What was the " at once V 7 — A. The books show that they commenced 
buying stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company on December 1, 
1864. They commenced buying stock from the first stockholders. 

Q. Was that done by the Credit Mobilier as a corporation, or by the 
members thereof? — A. It was done by the corporation. 

Q. As such ? — A. That is what the books show — that the corporation 
bought it and paid for it. 

Q. At what rates ? — A. The books show that they paid the full value 
lor it. 

Q. Par value ? — A. No, sir ; the stock was not paid for in full ; but 
only $5 or $10 a share was paid. 

Q. Did they ever pay up the balance at any time ? — A. Yes ; they 
paid up the balance, and made it a full-paid stock before they issued it 
to their stockholders. 

Q. Who paid it up ?— A. The Credit Mobilier. 

Q. And issued the stock to whom? — A. To their stockholders: or 
sold it to them. My recollection is that they sold, it to them when it 
was a 30 per cent, stock. They bought the stock when there was. say 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 21 

20 per cent, paid on it, and they continued to buy it all along until they 
bought it all. 

Q. The stock was issued to somebody, was it ? — A. Yes. 

Q. To whom was it ultimately issued by the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company ? Was it issued to the Credit Mobilier or to their individual 
stockholders? — A. It was first issued to individuals, and, when the 
Credit Mobilier bought it,.it was issued to the Credit Mobilier. As fast 
as theybought.it, it was transferred, and new certificates made out 
in the name of the Credit Mobilier of America. 

Q. Was all the stock issued to the corporation, and not to individual 
members ? — A. To the corporation, and not to individual members. 

Q. And that was doue after the Credit Mobilier had become owners 
of the great body of the stock"? — A. It was done at different times. 
According as the Credit Mobilier bought the stock, it was transferred. 

Q. What do you mean by transferred ?— A. It was put in the name 
of the Credit Mobilier of America. 

Q. But the certificate was never issued to anybody until it was paid 
for ! — A. Yes ; they had scrip certificates, or receipts, on which they 
were required to pay ten per cent. 

Q. When did it come to pass that the Credit Mobilier had substanti- 
ally all the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. At the 
time of making the Oakes Ames contract they had substantially all of 
it. There were, perhaps, eight or ten men who had not sold their stock. 

Q. How did the Credit Mobilier make payments to the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company of the hundred per cent, on the stock subscribed? — 
A. That was before my time. 

Q. Can you tell from the books ? — A. I can examine and see. 

Q. Do you know whether they had come to own all the stock before 
the Oakes Ames contract was assigned to the trustees ? — A. Substanti- 
ally. There may have been eight or ten men who had not sold their 
stock, but not more than that. 

Q. Do you know who were directors of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company at the time of this assignment? — A. No, sir; I do not. 

Q. Do you know whether they had retained any of the stock of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company or not? — A. No, sir; they did not 
retain any of the old original stock. 

Q. What is the difference between the old original stock of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company and something else? — A. The old original 
stock consisted of thousand- dollar shares, subscriptions made by these 
different individuals before the organization was effected. That stock 
was all bought up by the Credit Mobilier, and new certificates of $100 
shares were issued under the act of 1864. 

Q. Were the $1,000 shares canceled and re-issued as $100 shares ? — 
A. Yes, sir ; ten shares for one. 

Q. When was that done? — A. As fast as they were bought up. 

Q. When the re-issue was made, were the certificates issued to the 
Credit Mobilier as a corporation, or were they issued to individuals? — 
A. They were issued to the Credit Mobilier as a corporation. 

Q. And the stock is held, so far as you know, now by the Credit Mo- 
bilier of America ?— A. No, sir. 

Q. How is it ? — A. The Credit Mobilier made a dividend of 6 per 
cent, payable in stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company at 30, 
and it also sold Union Pacific Eailroad stock. 

Q. Can you give us the payments that were made from time to time 
in the shape of dividends or profits to the individual members of the 



22 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Credit Mobilier ? — A. I have stated that these dividends were entirely 
out of my jurisdiction. They were in the hands of the seven trustees. 

Q. Tou got the same dividend as the others got on your soms shares? — 
A. Eo, sir; not that I know of. I do not recollect anything about that. 

Q. I thought you stated that yours was about the same as the rest ? — 
A. No, sir, I do not recollect anything about it, because I paid no atten- 
tion to it. 

Q. Then you have no knowledge, either as auditor of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company or as an officer of the Credit Mobilier, about 
the dividends made to the shareholders of that company ! — A. Ko, sir. 

Q. You were never connected in any way with the lettings of the 
work of the Union Pacific Railroad ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you ail auditor of the Union Pacific Railroad Company at the 
time of the contract with Oakes Ames in 1867 ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What contracts had been let before that date ? — A. I had nothing 
to do with that part of the business. 

Q. Do you know anything about it ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Wa's there any more than the one Hoxie contract f — A. That was 
the only contract which the company had made for building so many 
iniles of road. 

Q. Do you know, as a matter of your own knowledge, or from the 
statements of the directors of the Union Pacific -Railroad Company, 
what inspections or surveys had been made of the line of road that 
was covered by the Ames contract prior to the letting to Mr. Ames % — 
A. 5To, sir; I had nothing to do with inspections or surveys. 

Q. Who made the surveys and inspections on which the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company let that work to Oakes Ames ? — A. General Dodge 
was chief engineer of the company. 

Q. Are you able to state, from your own knowledge, that that survey 
was made throughout the entire line covered by the contract, and a re- 
port and estimate made?— A. No, sir; I do not know anything about 
it ; I had nothing to do with it. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Did the Credit Mobilier hold a majority of the stock of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company at the time this contract with Oakes Ames 
was made ? — A. No, sir ; it did not. 

Q. After the stock was re-issued to the Credit Mobilier, what was 
done with it by that company ? — A. That company sold some of it to 
its stockholders, and then it divided some of it. 

Q. Did it sell any of that stock to persons other than its own share- 
holders %— A. No, sir ; not to my knowledge. 

Q. Then the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company which 
was issued to the Credit Mobilier, as you have stated, was either sold 
to the stockholders or divided out among the stockholders of the Credit 
Mobilier as dividends ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did the Credit Mobilier hold any portion of that stock at the time 
the contract with Oakes Ames was made ? — A. Yes, sir ; it did. 

Q. Can you tell about what proportion ?— A. It held 1,970 shares at 
that time. 

Q. And how many shares were there altogether at that time \ — A. 
Tli at I cannot state ; our books do not show that. 

Q. At that time, what percentage of the Union Pacific Railroad stock 
had been paid in in cash I — A. All had been paid in to the Union Pacific- 
Railroad Company in cash. The charter did not allow them to issue 
stock in any other way except for cash. 



CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. Z6 

Q. How much is the stock of tbe Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — 
A. *36,000,000. 

By Mr. SWANN : 
Q. What amount of the stock had been issued at the time of the con- 
tract with Mr. Ames ? — A. That is what I stated I did not know. I have 
not the Union Pacific Railroad books here. 



Washington, D. C, January 14, 1873. 

Oakes Ames sworn and examined. 
By Mr. HOAR : 

Question. What property has been paid oyer to the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company by the United States Government under the acts of 
1S62 and 186-1, and other acts relating to that road? — Answer. We have 
been paid, I think, $16,000 a mile to the foot of the Eocky Mountains. 

Q. How much in the aggregate ?— A. About $27,000,000 of bonds in 
the whole. 

Q. How much in value in land I — A. That is hard to say. I think we 
were voted twenty sections to the mile. The Government has giyen us' 
about one-fourth of it, and withholds the other three-fourths. 

Q. How many sections does that make? — A. We have got the land 
certified to us for 250 miles, at twenty sections to the mile. That would 
make 5,000 sections. 

Q, And how much remains, as you understand, to be conveyed to you 
by the United States Government ? — A. Three times as much. 

Q. How much more in bonds? — A. No more in bonds. 

Q. What is the amount of the first-mortgage bonds of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company bonds prior to the lien of the United States ? — 
A. The same amount as the Government bonds, about $27,000,000. 

Q. What disposition has been made of those first-mortgage bonds ? — 
A. They were used for the construction of the road — both classes of 
bonds. 

Q. Were they used for the construction of the road as so much cash at 
any fixed cash value ? — A. No, sir ; I think not. I know that the first 
bonds which we got from the Government were sold at 92J. 

Q. And you paid the cash which you received for the construction of 
the road? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then you received" in cash about an average of 90 cents on the dol- 
lar?— A. More than that. The first bonds were sold at 92 J, and we 
afterward got par for them. 

Q. About what amount of cash did you realize from those Government 
bonds, according to your judgment? — A. I should think an average of 
95 per cent. 

Q. According to your best judgment, what did you realize in cash 
from those first-mortgage bonds? — A. I should think from .80 to 85 on 
the average. 

Q. What does the property of the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
now consist of? — A. It consists of the railroad and its rolling stock, its 
machine-shops, machinery, and lands. 

Q. How large an amount of the land giyen to it by the Government 
has been sold by the Union Pacific Railroad Company?— A. That I 
cannot tell you, but I think the company has sold about enough to come 
to about $2,000,000. We sold it on an average, I think, of about four 



24 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

dollars an acre. But the land has been sold on long notes. I think we 
have canceled about $1,000,000 of the land-grant bonds. That is my 
impression. 

Q. What property was paid over by the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company to the Credit Mobilier under its contract for building the 
road ? — A. I do not know that any was. 

Q. Was anything ever paid to the Credit Mobilier direct? — A. I do 
not think there was under my contract. 

Q. Under any contract ? — A. I do not know. The Credit Mobilier took 
the Hoxie contract, but that was before I had much, to do with it. I 
was not a director in the company during his contract. 

Q. But you were a leading stockholder in the Credit Mobilier ? — A. I 
was one of the three or four largest stockholders. 

Q. Give us your best judgment as to what was paid to the Credit 
Mobilier Company under the Hoxie contract, or any other contract, by 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company; what in value, and what the prop- 
erty consisted of. — A. Beally, I do not know. I do not know that any- 
thing was paid to the Credit Mobilier, except these two dividends of "C 
per cent. each. 

Q. Did the Credit Mobilier execute the Hoxie contract t — A. I think 
it did assume it. 

Q. For what distance was that contract to build the road % — A. I be- 
lieve the first contract was to build a hundred miles of road, with a right 
to extend it to the hundredth meridian. 

Q. How much, a mile were they paid for that I — A. That I do not 
know. That contract was made before I had anything to do with it. 

Q. Have you any information on the subject, either as stockholder 
or otherwise ?— A. I think about $50,000 a mile was paid for part of it. 

Q. Do you know how that was paid for, in cash or in bonds %— A. I 
suppose in cash. The capital paid in to the Credit Mobilier was used 
o build that road. 

Q. I am speaking of how the property of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company was disposed of. You think about $50,000 a mile was paid 
under the Hoxie contract % — A. Yes. 

Q. For a hundred miles? — A. That I cannot tell you. 

Q. Do you not know how much of the road was built under the 
Hoxie contract f — A. I think about two hundred and forty miles. 

Q. And, according to your impression, the price would be about 
$50,000 a mile % — A. Yes ; that is my impression. 

Q. What sum was paid over under the Oakes Ames contract, by the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company? — A. The Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company paid over $47,000,000 under that contract. 

Q. Was that paid in cash % — A. In cash, or its equivalent. 

Q. What do you mean by its equivalent 1 — A. Bonds and stock were 
sold to raise the money ; we took the stock of the road at par ; what 
money we did not get by the sale of the bonds we took in stock of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad at par ; that is my impression. 

Q. Can you approximate the amount of every kind of property which 
was received from the Union Pacific Eailroad Company in payment 
under the Oakes Ames contract! — A. No, sir; I cannot. 

Q. Can you not approximate it 1— A. No, sir; I assigned my contract 
to seven trustees, and these trustees kept the books and accounts. 

Q. Were you yourself one of them 1 — A. No, sir. 

Q. Who were the trustees !— A. Mr. Durant, Mr. Alley, Mr. Duff, Mr. 
Dillon, Mr. Bushnell, Mr. Bates, and Mr. Oliver Ames. 

Q. You are unable to give us any information as to what kind of 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 25 

property that $47,000,000 was made up of! — A. On 150 miles of the 
road which was built over the Rocky Mountains, we got $48,000 a mile 
in Government bonds, and $48,000 in first-mortgage bonds ; from the 
termination of the Hoxie contract to the Rocky Mountains we were 
paid at the rate of $16,000 per mile in Government bonds, and $16,000 
a mile in stock. What the bonds did not pay for we took in stock at 
par. 

Q. But the amount of each you are unable to state? — A. I am, but it 
can be calculated in figures. After we passed the 150 miles, for which 
we got $48,000 a mile in Government bonds and $48,000 in first-mort- 
gage bonds, we received for the rest of the way $32,000 a mile in Gov- 
ernment bonds and $32,000 in stock and first-mortgage bonds. 

Q. Were there any other contracts for constructing the road except 
those you have named, the Hoxie contract and. the Oakes Ames con- 
tract ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In which the Credit Mobilier had an interest ! — A. 2so, sir, none 
others. 

Q. What other contract was there? — A. At the end of my contract, 
there were two contracts made to finish the work to Salt Lake ; one the 
Davis contract, and one the Boomer contract. 

Q. Those were persons whom you had. no connection with % — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Do you know how much was paid on those contracts \ — A. 2vo, sir : 
but it is my impression that the contractors lost money, although it did 
not cost nearly as much as the work we did. 

Q. Whom do you mean by we? — A. We, the people who carried out 
the Oakes Ames contract. 

• Q. I was asking about the Boomer contract and the Davis contract. — 
A. The Boomer and Davis contracts were assigned to the same trustees 
as the Oakes Ames contract was assigned to. 

Q. You are unable to state how much in cash was paid under those 
contracts ! — A. I cannot tell you, but I believe those contracts were given 
up by the parties, and the work finished by the trustees as trustees. 

Q. Can you tell the entire amount which the construction of the Union 
Pacific Railroad has cost the Union Pacific Railroad Company, including 
the equipment and the entire paraphernalia of the road % — A. I think 
about $60,000,000 ; that is my impression. 

• Q. That is an average of how much per mile \ — A. Between $50,000 
and $60,000 per mile. The length of the road is about ten hundred and 
fifty miles. 

Q. Of which amount" the company has received about $50,000,000 from 
the two classes of bonds ! — A. Yes. 

Q. How much of the stock was actually paid in in cash ! — A. It was 
all paid in cash, or on account of construction, which is the same thing. 

Q. What is the amount of the capital stock of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company!— A. I think about $36,000,000. 

Q. So that, if the company received $50,000,000 from the two classes 
of bonds and $36,000,000 in cash from the stock, that would make 
$86,000,000 which it had received, besides the land, against an expense 
of $60,000,000 ?— A. That is my impression. 

Q. So that, in other words, the company would have $26,000,000 to 
show for its capital stock besides the lands which the Government has 
conveyed to it or is hereafter to convey to it % — A. Yes. 

Q. State to the committee, as near as you can, what profit was made 
by the contractor on each of those contracts ? — A. That I cannot tell 
you. 



26 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Take the Oakes Ames contract first. — A. I think we made about 
15 per cent, on the Oakes Ames contract. 

Q. Fifteen per cent, on the whole sum u ? — A. Fifteen per cent, on 
147,000,000. 

Q. That is your best judgment of the matter ? — A. Yes. 

Q. That would be about $7,000,000 of profit ?— A. I do not think it 
exceeded that in cash profit. 

Q. i^ow, in reference to each of those other contracts, tell us, as far 
as your judgment goes, what profit was made by the contractor. Take 
the Hoxie contract first. — A. That I do not 'know. I do not think thai 
there was much, if anything, made. 

Q. You think there was no substantial profit made under the Hoxie 
contract? — A. jSo, sir : I think not. We labored under great disadvan- 
tages with it. 

Q. Do you mean to say to the committee that your best judgment is 
that on the entire cost of constructing and equipping that road — about 
$60,000,000 — the profit to the various persons who contracted to do it 
amounted to only about $7,000,000? — A. I think that would cover it — 
hardly as much as railroad contractors get in ordinary contracts. 

Q. Are you a member of, or interested directly or indirectly in, an 
organization that has made a contract with the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company for furnishing coal % — A. Kb, sir; -I am not a member of it 
any further than this, that the stockholders of the Union Pacific Bail- 
road Company own nine-tenths of it, and it is for the benefit of the 
stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad. The man who manages it 
owns the other one- tenth. 

Q. Your interest in that contract, then, is merely as a stockholder in 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. Yes. 

By the CiiAnniAN: 

Q. Were the first-mortgage bonds of the company sold by the com- 
pany, or were they taken by those trustees to whom your contract was 
assigned in payment for their contract; and if so, at what rate f — A, I 
think they were sold by the trustees. 

Q. Then they were taken by the trustees in part payment of their 
contract ? — A. That is my impression. 

Q. Do you know at what rate the trustees sold these bonds ? — A. At 
various rates, as the market would take them. 

Q. Did they sell all of these bonds ? — A. I think they made a divi- 
dend of some bonds once. 

Q. Then the whole of the bonds were not sold by those trustees, but 
were in part divided out among whoin?— A. There was a dividend 
made among the stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 
A dividend was made to the parties who came into the agreement and 
made themselves personally liable in the Oakes Ames contract. 

Q. But is it not a fact that before these parties could get any stock 
dividend it was necessary that they should be stockholders, not only in 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company, but in the Credit Mobilier ? — A. 
That document (indicating) will show that exactly. 

Q. When you say that these bonds were divided out as dividends 
among the stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, are you 
not in an error ; was not the division made among the stockholders of 
the Credit Mobilier, and was it not simply a requisite that they should 
be stockholders in the Union Pacific Railroad Company in order to en- 
title them to participate in these dividends ? — A. I do not know exactly 
whether that is so or not. I know that nobody could participate in 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 27 

these dividends unless they signed this agreement to support the trus- 
tees and make themselves parties to the Oakes Ames contract. 

Q. In other words, they required the stockholders of the Credit Mo- 
bilier to be stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, and 
that they should give an irrevocable proxy to those trustees to enable 
the trustees to vote on six-tenths of their stock in the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company ? — A. There was suck an agreement among the sub- 
scribers to the Oakes Ames contract. 

Q. Then, when the dividends of stock were made, they were made 
among such shareholders of the Credit Mobilier as were also share- 
holders of the Uuion Pacific Eailroad, and as had entered into such 
agreement. Is that the case I — A. I had to assign this contract, and 
nearly all the parties were participants in it. I took that contract 
without any regard to anybody else. 

Q. Those who signed that agreement got dividends, and those who 
did not sign it did not get any dividends % — A. That is so. 

Q. Were you not, on the 12th of December, 1867, the owner of 2,819 
shares of the Union Pacific Eailroad stock % — A. I cannot tell you. 

Q. Were you not at that time the owner of 1,955 shares of Credit 
Mobilier stock ? — A. That is about the amount that I owned. 

Q. Did you not on that day receive a dividend of $117,300 in first- 
mortgage bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, and a like 
dividend of $117,300 in stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company % — 
A. It is my impression that that was in January, 1868. 

Q. Did you not, on the 3d of January, 1868, receive a dividend in 
first-mortgage bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, of $39,100, 
as the holder of 1,955 shares of Credit Mobilier stock ? — A. It is very 
likely. I cannot recollect the amount of bonds or the date, but I re- 
ceived my dividends regularly. 

Q. It is a fact, then, that dividends of the first-mortgage bonds and 
of the stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company were made to the 
holders of the Credit Mobilier stock, but the amounts you are not now 
able to state ? — A. That was the way we fixed it. 

Q. Then, you do not mean to be understood as saying that these 
bonds were sold by the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, but you 
mean to say that the bonds and stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company were turned over to these trustees, and that they either sold 
them or distributed them ? — A. That is my idea. 

Q. Do you know the rate at which these bonds were taken by these 
trustees from the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, on account of this 
contract? — A. No; I cannot say. The contract will tell, I believe. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Is the Union Pacific Eailroad Company now paying any dividends 
out of its earnings by transportation 1 — A. No, sir. 

Q. Suppose it was to receive pay for all its business, (leaving out any 
right of the United States to retain any p*art, for any purpose,) would 
it earn anything beyond its running expenses, and, if so, how much ? — 
A. It earned, last year, nearly enough to pay the interest on its first- 
mortgage bonds, on its land-grant bonds, and on its income-bonds. 
There are $10,000,000 of income-bonds. 

Q. The United States Government making the deduction or not? — A. 
The United States Government making the deduction of one-half. The 
company did not earn quite euough, I think, to do this. 

Q. Explain about these income-bonds. — A. These income-bonds were 
issued after the road was completed, in order to furnish it with rolling- 
stock. 



28 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Those bonds are subordinate to the United States claim ! — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. By whom are those bonds held ? — A. By various parties. They 
were sold in order to raise money. 

Q. What did you get for them ?— A. We got 80 for them. They are 
10 per cent, bonds. They were selling at 83 last week. 

Q. I want to get at the nature and character of the Government se- 
curity, if I can. Suppose the Union Pacific Eailroad Company were to 
receive pay for all its business, (leaving out now the right of the Gov- 
ernment to make a deduction on the work done for it,) what profit, in 
your judgment, would the company make, over and above its running 
expenses and the interest on its bonds % — A. I think the net proceeds 
last year were about $3,500,000 over and above running expenses. That 
would about pay the interest on the first-mortgage bonds and the other 
bonds. The interest on the first-mortgage bonds is 6 per cent., in gold, 
on the land-grant bonds 7 per cent., and on the income-bonds 10 per 
cent. Up to this time we have not replaced much of our iron. The iron 
is getting worn out. We have got to work economically in order to 
meet our interest. 

Q. Has the road been kept up in good repair ? — A. Yes, sir ; in very 
good repair. 

By Mr. Swakn": 

Q. Were you connected with railroads before you were connected 
with the Credit Mobilier ? — A. Yes, sir ; I had been building railroads 
in Iowa since 1856. 

Q. That has been your profession pretty much ? — A. No, sir ; I am a 
shovel-maker. 

Q. When you took this contract did you not remark at various times 
that the stock of the Credit Mobilier would be immensely valuable, far 
beyond the 15 per cent, which you thought would be the profit of the 
contract?— A. After this contract was made, and after we found the 
easy grade over the Kocky Mountains, I thought we would make a good 
deal of money. 

Q. In your conversations with members of Congress, did you not hold 
out the expectation that it would be an immensely profitable thing? — 
A. Yes, sir j I thought it would be a profitable thing. 

Q. Can you state what the stockholders in this Credit Mobilier have 
received from first to last on their interest in this concern ? — A. I can- 
not tell you without referring to my books. 

Q. Can you not approximate it % — A. I should think we have made 
300 per cent. 

Q. You do not think it has gone beyond 300 per cepat. ? — A. I do not 
know. That depends upon the value of what we have got. 

Q. At the time you went into this contract, had you the estimates of 
the engineer of the probable cost of the whole line for which you con- 
tracted % — A. I looked them over. 

Q. You had the estimates before you ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What did these estimates amount to per mile ? — A. I cannot recol- 
lect. I thought I should make about 20 per cent, profit. 

Q. I want to know the estimate of the engineer. — A. I cannot recol- 
lect. 

Q. Had you no paper or report ? — A. I presume I looked them over, 
but it is a good while ago, and I cannot recollect figures very accurately. 
I supposed I should make about 20 per cent, on the contract. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 29 

Q. I want to get at the estimates of the engineer. — A. I cannot tell 
you what the estimates were. 

Q. Would you go into a contract of some forty millions of dollars 
without knowing how you stood? — A. I suppose I knew- at the time, 
but I cannot recollect the estimates now. I estimated that I should make 
20 per cent. 

Q. I want to know the engineer's estimates. — A. Take 20 per cent. 
from that, and the engineer's estimate would be about $37,000,000. 

Q. Have you in your possession now the report of the engineer ! — A. 
I examined it in the office of the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. Can you produce that paper ? — A. I do not know whether I can 
or not. 

Q. It would be very satisfactory to the committee if you could produce 
it, because it is the only way we can estimate the profit which you have 
derived from the contract. What I want to know is the estimate of the 
engineer of the cost per mile of the construction of that road. — A. It 
would vary all the time. I will try to find it. 

Q. Do you recollect having ever said that it was not the profits which 
you expected to derive from the construction of this road that influenced 
you, but that it was from a motive of patriotism that you threw your- 
self into the field to engineer and carry out this great enterprise f — A. 
I never thought that, and I do not think 1 ever said it. Did you ever 
hear me ? 

Q. STo, sir: I ask you the question. — A. I do not think I ever said it. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. I understood you to say that the profits of the Credit Mobilier 
were about 300 per cent, in dividends. — A. Yes, sir, on that $3,750,000. 
It will depend on what we get for the stock. I have held my stock. I 
want to see the road through, and to keep the control of it until I get it 
right. If the stock falls during the month as it has gone down for some 
days past, the dividends would not amount to much. 

Q. By your influence and power as a capitalist in the community in 
which you move, how much money do you suppose you i aised for the con- 
struction of the road % — A. I cannot tell you. I got a goud many people 
to go in by my influence and by guaranteeing them against loss. I took 
a large amount of stock myself alone and some in connection with others. 
My brother took a large amount. 

Q. Was it your habit to guarantee parties against loss, and did you 
bring them in in that way % — A. Yes, sir, lots of them. 

Q. Did you guarantee those members of Congress who came in ? — A. 
I guaranteed Senator Grimes 10 per cent, on his money. I guaranteed 
Mr. Adams* and I offered to guarantee Mr. Hooper. He thought first 
that he would take it, and afterward he thought that he would not. I 
also guaranteed several other parties. People thought I was crazy to 
make such contracts and to go into such an enterprise. Governor Wash- 
burn, of Massachusetts, came to me before I took that contract, and 
offered to loan me $50,000, which they had at the Greenfield Savings 
Bank. I asked him what security they wanted. He said, "What secu- 
rity can you give?" I mentioned my brother and other names. I 
also gave him $50,000 in stock as collateral. Immediately after I took 
that contract he called on me to pay back the loan at a time when it 
was inconvenient to pay it back. He said that the contract was a reck- 
less thing, and that he would not consent that I should have the money j 
that the directors said they would not trust a man who would take 
such a contract. That is the way the thing was looked upon. 



6V CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. How did you induce these large capitalists to come in ? — A. I took 
them in before I took this large contract. 

Q. Were they disposed to "fly the track'' when they found that it 
was not going to be profitable ? — A. After we found an easy path over 
the Eocky Mountains we knew that the contract would be profitable. 

Q. Did you not state that it was going to be an immensely profitable 
contract ? — A. The last part of the time I did — after we found this easy 
grade over the mountains. Previous to that I had my doubts about it. 
Still I thought it would be a fair investment. I thought it was a good 
contract to take, and supposed I was going to make 20 per cent, on it. 
But I cannot carry the data in my mind for half a dozen years. I will 
try to get you the report of the engineer, if that will satisfy you. 

By Mr. HoAE : 

Q. How do you reconcile the statement which you made just now that 
the Credit Mobilier made 300 per cent, on $3,750,000, which would be 
over $11,000,000, with your answer to me that you thought the entire 
profit made out of this contract was only about $7,000,000 ? — A. If I 
could sit down and figure it up, I could get nearer to it. These are round 
guesses. 

Mr. Hoar. I thought that that was something of a discrepancy even 
for round guesses. 

The Witness. I suppose there would be some profit out of the Hoxie 
contract ; I do not know. 

Q. What is your present judgment ! — A. My present judgment is that 
we made some $8,000,000 or $9,000,000 on the Oakes Ames contract. 

Q. The Credit Mobilier profit alone would have amounted to over 
$11,000,000 if they made 300 per cent. ?— A. Part of it came out of Credit 
Mobilier stock, which is not now worth 25 cents on the dollar. Its cap- 
ital has been worked up on these contracts. 

Q. Do you mean that, in addition to the original par value of the stock, 
there was a profit of over $11,000,000. or do you mean that the stock 
became worth 300 per cent., which would make a profit of 200 per cent.? — 
A. I think the profit was more than 200 per cent. I think it must hav* 
been 300 per cent., but I cannot tell you from, memory. 

The committee adjourned to 15th January, at half past 10. 



Washington, D. C, January 15, 1873. 
The committee met at half past 10. Present, the chairman, Messrs. 
Hoar, Shellabarger, Swaun, and Slocum. 

Henry C. Crane sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer* At Vonkers, Westchester 
County, New York. 

Q. Have you been at anytime an officer in the corporation known 
as the Credit Mobilier of America 4 ? — A. From the time of the removal 
of the company's agency from Philadelphia to New York until May, 
1867, I was assistant treasurer. I cannot tell the date that I com 
menced, but it was after that time it came to Xew York. I should say 
it was in 18G1. 

Q. Were you then, and are you now, a stockholder in the Credit 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 31 

Mobilier? — A. I was not at that time. I became a stockholder by pur- 
chase a year after that, perhaps. 

Q. Are you a stockholder now ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where was the office of the Credit Mobilier kept during the time 
you were an officer? — A. What was called the New York agency was 
kept part of the time at 20 Nassau street and part of the time at 13 
William street. 

Q. 'Were you at that time an officer of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company f— A. No, sir; I never was an officer of that company. I was 
a director for a very short time. 

Q. Were you a director of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company at the 
time you were an officer in the Credit Mobilier! — A. I think not. 

Q. 'Where were the offices of these two corporations kept in New 
York with reference to each other ? — A. They were both together, in 
the same office. 

Q. Who were the stockholders in the Credit Mobilier at the time the 
Oakes Ames contract was made, on the 10th August, 1867 ? — A. I think 
1 have a list here which comprises all the stockholders at that time. 

Q. Who were the officers of both oi those corporations at the time 
that contract was made f — A. I cannot give you the officers of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company. The officers of the Credit Mobilier were : 
Thomas C. Durant, president ; Oliver W. Barnes, treasurer ; myself, 
assistant treasurer, and B. F. Bunker, assistant secretary. 

Q. Do you recollect whether either of them were at that time officers 
in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. I think that Mr. Durant 
was. 

Q. As to the others you cannot say \ — A. I know that Mr. Barnes and 
Mr. Bunker were not. 

Q. Now give the names of the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier at 
that time, the amount of stock which each one held; and, if any of them 
held Union Pacific stock, state the amount of such stock which each one 
held. — A. I believe that this printed list here is a full list of the stock- 
holders of the Credit Mobilier, and also shows the number of shares which 
they held in the Union Pacific Company at that time. It is certified by a 
commissioner named Gill, having been compared with the original. 

Q. Look at pages 1, 2, 3, and 4 of this document, and state whether 
or not they show the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier at that time. 
all of them ; and the dividends that were made at the time indicated 
thereon ; and if the name of any stockholder is omitted, state who it is. 
and the amount of stock owned by him. — A. I think it very likely that 
these one hundred shares of stock in the name of Anna M. Dodge may not 
have been transferred to her at the time the list was made. Aside from 
that, this list I think to be correct, showing the names of stockholders 
in the Credit Mobilier, the amount of stock they held, the amount of 
stock which they held in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company at that 
time, and the dividends received at that time. 

Q. Look at pages 6, 7,- and 8, and state what they show, and whether 
or not it is correct, according to the best of your knowledge. — A. I have 
t looked over the list, but I suppose it to be correct. 
Q. State whether pages 0, 10, and 11 show another dividend. — A. 
They purport to be another list of stockholders, with the dividends made 
to them at that time. I suppose it to be correct, although I have not 
tooted the columns. 

Q. Look at pages 2. 4, 5, and 6, and state whether they show another 
dividend to the stockholders. — A. It purports to be a. dividend made 
w rh -July. L868, in cash, to the same parties. 



6Z CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Look at pages 27-29. — A. That purports to be the same thing — a 
dividend made in stock on July 3, 1868. The cash dividend was on 
July 8. 

Q. Look at pages 30-32. — A. That purports to be the same thing — a 
dividend in stock on December 29, 1868. 

Q. Do you think these are correct ? — A. I suppose so. I have not 
compared them. 

(The lists referred to by the witness are appended to this testimony.) 

Q. Were you at any time connected with the board of trustees of the 
stockholders of the Credit Mobilier 1 — A. No, sir. 

Q. You were not an officer of that board ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know where the business of that board of trustees was 
transacted ? — A. There never was a board of trustees of the Credit 
Mobilier. There were trustees of the Ames contract. 

Q. We are referring to the same thing. Was the business of that 
board at any time transacted in the city of New York ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Where did they hold their meetings ? — A. At 20 Nassau street. 

Q. At the same place where the Union Pacific Eailroad Company and 
the Credit Mobilier had their offices ? — A. Yes. 

Q. How many dividends, in all, were declared by that board of trus- 
tees? — A. They made four what they called dividends and two what 
they called allotments. 

Q. What is the distinction between dividends and allotments ? — A. I 
think that with the allotments there was an agreement that, in case the 
trustees required any money to finish the contract, these parties were 
to return it to them. 

Q. Which of these are dividends and which are allotments I — A. The 
first four are dividends. 

Q. Have you any books or papers showing the records of the trustees 
at the time these dividends and allotments were made f — A. I have not. 

Q. Who has them ? — A. Mr. Durant has copies of the books. 

Q. Have you any books or papers showing what action was taken by 
the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier with reference to the Ames 
contract, indorsing it, or sanctioning it, or ratifying it? — A. I have got 
no books or papers myself. Thomas C. Durant has copies of them. 
The originals 1 did have $ but I returned them to the chairman of the 
trustees. 

Q. Who is Anna M. Dodge ?— A. The wife of General Grenville M. 
Dodge. 

Q. Was the husband of Anna M. Dodge connected in any way with 
the Union Pacific Eailroad ? — A. He was the chief engineer. 

Q. Was he the chief engineer from the commencement of the surveys 
and construction of the road ? — A. I think he was chief engineer from 
the very start to the conclusion. 

Q. Do you know what the construction of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
cost the railroad company ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know what its construction cost these trustees under the 
Ames contract, so far as that contract was concerned ? — A. I do not. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. Were you treasurer of any company or association having a* con- 
tract or interest in a contract with the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ; 
and if so, what was it, and at what time?— A. After the removal of the 
Credit Mobilier. to New York, and until May, 1867, I was assistant 
treasurer of that corporation. When the Oakes Ames contract was 
made and assigned to the trustees, I was made secretary and assistant 
treasurer to the board of trustees. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 33 

Q. Give as nearly as you can the dates of the events. — A. My idea is 
that it was some time in the winter of 18G4-'05 that the Credit Mobilier 
came to New York. In May, 1807, my connection with it ceased. In 
October, 1807, the time of making theOakes Ames contract, I was made 
assistant secretary and treasurer of the trustees of the Oakes Ames 
contract. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. In making settlements and receiving payments from the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company under this Oakes Ames contract, in what way 
were the payments made ; were they made in cash or in bonds \ — A. In 
cash. 

Q. Did the Union Pacific Railroad Company pay the cash % — A. It 
paid the cash. 

Q. Did the trustees get any bonds or stock of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company % — A. They bought bonds and stock of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company. 

Q. Explain how that thing was done. — A. At meetings of the trustees' 
there were resolutions passed to purchase of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company so many thousand dollars of bonds. We paid them for their 
bonds at whatever price was authorized by the resolution, and we received 
from the Union Pacific Railroad Company a check on account of the 
contract. 

Q. Then it was only cash in form, and not in fact % — A. That is the 
fact. 

Q. Then it was done in this way : when you came to receive a payment 
you bought the bonds % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who bought the bonds? — A. The trustees. 

Q. At what rate f — A. I do not recollect. The resolution will tell and 
the trustees' books will tell. 

Q. Then the trustees afterward sold the bonds? — A. No. I do not 
think they sold them. I think they divided them ; turned them over as 
profit to the stockholders. The trustees, I think, never sold bonds at 
all. All the bonds that they parted with, as far as I know, were turned 
over to their stockholders as allotments or dividends. 

Q. What class of bonds are you referring to % — A. To the first-mort- 
gage bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad. 

Q. What was done with the Government bonds'? — A. We never had 
them at all. The Union Pacific Railroad Company sold the Government 
bonds itself. We had nothing to do with them. 

Q. Did the trustees receive payment from the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company in cash ? — A. Yes. They did not receive anything but what 
they received in cash. If they bought anything from the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company they paid for it; it was not on account of the con- 
tract. The Union Pacific Railroad Company never paid the trustees 
any bonds on account of the contract, but they paid the money, and the 
trustees bought bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad Company with the 
same money. 

Q. Then, in other w r ords, it amounts to this, that the trustees bought 

the bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad Company for cash % — A. Yes. 

Q. And when the Union Pacific Railroad Company paid the trustees 

for w T ork done under the Oakes Ames contract it paid money? — A. Yes, 

sir. 

Q. Were these transactions contemporaneous % — A. Sometimes I think 
they were, and sometimes not. The books will show the whole of these 
3 c j\i 



84 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

transactions. I do not pretend to carry them in my head. The books 
are right. • 

Q. What books should we go to to find out these transactions ?— A. 
You want to see the books of the trustees of the Ames contract. They 
kept a set of books which show the whole of the transactions. They 
kept a record-book, the same as every corporation <loes, in which their 
resolutions and proceedings were entered, and their regular books show 
the regular mercantile transactions, what they bought and what they 
paid for it, where they got the money, and all about it. 

Q. State, according to the best of your judgment and information, 
what was the profit made by the contractors on each of the contracts to 
which you have referred.— A. I may as well state that, at the time that the 
Union Pacific Kailroad office was moved to Boston, the trustees moved 
their office and took their papers there also, and I had no connection 
with them afterward. The business of the trustees and all the business 
of the Union Pacific Kailroad Company was done in Boston. I did not 
go there. I remained in New York, and knew nothing of their trans- 
actions. Consequently I am unable to tell you what the road cost or 
anything about it. 

Q. Then when the Union Pacific office was removed to Boston the 
office of the trustees was also removed to Boston ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Do you know whether they were kept in the same place ? — A. I 
think they were. 

Q. Give your best information as to the profits made. — A. I really 
have no way to judge anything about it. There was never any calcula- 
tion made, to my knowledge, of the net proceeds of the contract.. If it 
was, it was made after the books went out of my hands. 

Mr. Sloctjm. You know what dividends were made ? 

The Witness. Yes. The first dividend, made in December, 1867, was 
60 per cent, in stock and 60 per cent, in bonds of the Union Pacific Bail- 
road Company. Then, on January 3, 1868, a dividend of 20 per cent, in 
bonds. In June, 1868, they made a dividend of 40 per cent, in Union 
Pacific stock and of 60 per cent, in cash. In July, 1868, they made a 
dividend of 75 per cent, in bonds of the Union Pacific Bailroad stock. 
On July 8, 1868, they made a dividend of 30 per cent, in cash. In De- 
cember, 1868, they made a dividend of 200 per cent, in Union Pacific 
Bailroad stock. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. State whether those dividends represented profits on any con- 
tract; and, if so, on what. — A. V\ r e had monthly statements made by 
the chief engineer of the Union Pacific Kailroad Company which 
showed what was due on the contract. From that total we deducted 
the money which had been paid to the trustees by the Union Pacific 
Baiiroad Company, and we declared dividends accordingly. 

Q. State whether or not those dividends represented the profits on 
those contracts. — A. I cannot tell you whether they did or not. 

Q. Had the trustees any other source of revenue than that % — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. Was there any source from which they derived money, stocks, or 
bonds other than on this contract ! — A. They did nothing but build the 
Pacific Koad. 

By Mr. Slooum : 
Q. The capital stock was $3,750,000 ; did the trustees put that money 
in I — A. No, sir ; the trustees had nothing to do with that. The Credit 
Mobilier was an entirely distinct organization and had nothing at all to do 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC KAILROAD. 6b 

with the Ames contract. The tripartite agreement shows the interest 
of the Credit Mobilier in that enterprise. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. What was the value of these bonds and stocks at the respective 
dates you have given when these dividends were made ? — A. I should 
say that the bonds were between 80 and 90. I know that the first bonds 
sold to the Credit Mobilier by the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
were sold at 85. I think they were the first bonds that were parted with 
by the -Union Pacific Eailroad Company. After that they were selling 
by the company, through its agents, as high as par at different times. 

Q. What was the stock worth ? — A. I do not know. It had not been 
placed upon the stock exchange at all. I think it was valued at from 
20 to 40 and all sorts of prices. 

The committee here took a recess until 2 o'clock. Upon re-assembling 
the examination of the witness was continued as follows : 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Have you examined the books of the Credit Mobilier produced here 
by Mr. Ham ; and, if so, is there anything in these books from which it 
can be now ascertained who are the present holders of the Credit 
Mobilier stock? — A. The stock-ledger will show in whose names the 
stock of the Credit Mobilier now stands. 

Q. Is there any other book from which that can be ascertained ? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. Was the stock of the Credit Mobilier increased at any time ; and,, 
if so, when ?— A. I can tell by looking at the records. (After referring 
to the books.) The stock was increased from 25,000 to 37,500 shares, 
representing $3,750,000. I think it was increased in January, 1867. 
The resolution is dated on the 26th, but it was not all taken up until 
some time afterward. It was a 50 per cent, increase. 

Q. What disposition was made of that increase of stock ? — A. It was 
disposed of to the parties already interested. They had the option to 
increase their interest in the concern 50 per cent. 

Q. Were no other persons than those already interested in it per- 
mitted to take any of this increased stock ? — A. They had no right to- 
it. I think there was one case in which one man was allowed to come 
in afterward. 

Q. Do you recollect who that was? — A. It was Mr. Neilson. He got 
fifty shares. 

Q. When did he come in? — A. He took the certificate on the 11th of 
March, 1868. 

Q. For what consideration was this additional stock issued ? — A. For 
every ten shares of stock subscribed and paid for they had one bond of 
the Union Pacific Eailroad. 

Q. I mean what consideration did the Credit Mobilier get ?— A. It 
got the money. 

Q. Then these persons who got this additional stock paid the par 
value of the stock to the Credit Mobilier ? — A. Yes, sir ; that is it. 

Q. When the additional stock was issued to Mr. Neilson was the 
money paid for it? — A. Yes, sir. It seems that he got a dividend upon 
it before that. He paid interest on the $5,000 from the time it should, 
have been paid until the time it was paid, and he collected back divi- 
dends on it. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. He took his stock at a certain date ? — A. Yes. 



36 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. And there were back dividends to which that stock was entitled ? — 
A. Yes. 

Q. And these back dividends he drew ? — A. Yes ; and he was charged 
the interest on the $5,000 from the time it should have been paid until 
the time it was paid. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Had there been dividends declared by the Credit Mobilier before 
the capital stock was increased ? — A. I think that a 6 per cent, divi- 
dend was declared before that, but I am not certain about that. * 

Q. Was there not a 12 per cent, dividend declared ? — A. There were 
two 6 per cent, dividends declared at the same time, making 12 per cent., 
and covering two years. 

Q. Was this increase of stock after the dividend was declared ? — A. 
That dividend of 12 per cent. — the two 6 per cents. — was declared on 
December 28, 1868. 

Q. Then that 12 per cent, dividend was declared on $3,750,000 of 
stock? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Had there been any allotments or dividends on the increased stock 
before the 12 per cent, dividend ? — A. None other than that the sub- 
scribers to the increased capital stock got for every ten shares of stock 
they took a bonus of a $1,000 bond. They did not call it a dividend. 

Q. When did they become entitled to this bonus? — A. Whenever 
they paid the money for the new stock. That was part and parcel of 
the arrangement for the increase of the capital. 

Q. That is, a man became entitled to $1,000 in stock and got at the 
same time a bond of $1,000, but he had to pay in that $1,000 in payment 
for his stock? — A. Yes; he paid the Credit Mobilier $1,000 and got his 
new stock, and then he got a $1,000 first-mortgage bond. 

Q. How nearly was the OakCs Ames contract completed at the time 
of this increase of capital stock ? — A. I think the contract was com- 
pleted in 1869 ; the increase was made in 1868. 

Q. Was it understood at the time of that increase that there were to 
be large profits on this Oakes Ames contract? — A. I do not think it 
was, because it was with some difficulty that they got the stock placed. 
They did not take it very sharply. 

By Mr. SwANN : 

Q. What was the pressing necessity for that increase of stock?— A. 
I suppose it was in order to raise the money for the Union Pacific Bail- 
road Company. They were not selling their bonds, and this placed 
money in their vaults, 

Q. They wanted the money to construct the road? — A. Yes. 

Q. And not to make dividends? — A. No, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. I see in looking at this list of stockholders that Sidney Dillon, 
president, appears as the holder of four hundred shares of the Credit 
Mobilier stock and five hundred and ninety-eight shares of the Union 
Pacific Bailroad stock. In what way did he hold that stock ? — A. That 
belonged to the company. He received that stock by transfer from 
Thomas O. Durant. It was transferred to him as president. 

Q. W. F. Day, cashier, appears to have been the holder of one hun- 
dred shares in trust. On whose account did he hold that I — A. I do not 
know. I can tell where he got it from. 

Q. Elizabeth Hazzard appears to be the holder of thirteen shares in 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 37 

trust. — A. That was for relatives of Mr. Hazzard, one of the other stock- 
holders. 

Q. Josiah Bardwell appears as the holder of three hundred shares in 
trust, — A. I do not know for whom he held it. I think it was for a Mrs. 
Nourse, some lady-friend of his. 

Q. You are down on this list as the holder of sixty shares in trust. — 
A. Yes. 

Q. For whom was that held ?— A. I do not recollect now. I held stock 
for Mr. Thomas 0. Durant in trust, and I held some for Mrs. Clarissa 0. 
Cooke. 

Q. Oakes Ames seems to have been the holder of ninety-three shares 
in trust. Do you know for whom he held them % — A. *L do not know 
anything about it. 

Q. On the 17th of June, 1868, as appears by the list of dividends de- 
clared on that day, Oakes Ames appears to have been the holder, as 
trustee, of three hundred and forty-three shares of this Credit Mobilier 
stock. Do you know from what source he derived those three hundred 
and forty-three shares. — A. The books will tell. I t^iuk that stock was 
transferred to his name from Mr. Dillon's name. 

Q. Please look at the books and see how that stock came into Oakes 
Ames's hands. — A. He received thirty shares as trustee on 8th January, 
1868, from Sidney Dillon, president, and he received on 20th January, 
1868, two hundred and twenty shares. These, with the ninety -three 
shares which he received before, made the three hundred and forty- three 
shares. 

Q. Do you know for whom he held that stock ? — A. I do not know 
anything about it. 

Q. Or on what account ? — A. I know nothing about it. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. Were you then connected with the company ? — A. No, sir, I think 
not. I was in New York in 1867, and this was in May, 1868, in Boston. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. Do you know whether this stock was purchased in the market and 
at what rate ? — A. I know nothing about it, except that the books will 
show what he paid for it. 

Q. Tell us that.— A. (After examining books.) He paid par and six 
months' interest at 7 per cent, for these two hundred and fifty additional 
shares on January 8 and January 30, 1868. 

Q. Look and see whether that was not stock that was held by the 
Credit Mobilier and transferred to him f — A. No, sir, because the trans- 
fer shows that it was stock held in the name of Sidney Dillon, which he 
had received from Thomas C. Durant, and which Mr. Dillon transferred 
to Mr. Ames. The entry is that the company received from Oakes Ames 
83,000 for thirty shares of stock and $105 in interest. There are ten 
shares on the 31st of January, thirty on the 21st, and one hundred and 
eighty on the 7th of February, paid for with six months' interest. That 
makes two hundred and twenty shares. That, with the thirty shares 
and the ninety-three shares, makes the three hundred and forty-three 
shares which Mr. Oakes Ames held in trust. 

Q. From whom did Anna M. Dodge receive the stock which she 
holds?— A. The entry of it is: "29th February, 1868, capital stock, 
Anna M. Dodge, certificate No. 372, for 100 shares." There would be 
no transfer on that if it is new stock; and from its not having been 
transferred 1 should say that it was new stock — some that the company 



38 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

had on hand. If the money had not been paid to the company for it, 
the entry would not have been there. 

Q. Did she receive any dividends on that stock pursuant to the divi- 
dend declared on the 27th of December, 1867 ? — A. (After referring to 
the book.) I do not think she did; she does not seem to be on the list. 

Q. Were you connected with the board of trustees at the time that 
Anna M. Dodge got her stock ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Do you know who paid for the stock of Anna M. Dodge ? — A. I do 
not know anything about it. 

Q. Do you know anything of the transaction personally ? — A. I know 
nothing about it, except what I see here about it in this book. 

Q, Do you know where she lived at that time ? — A. I think she lived 
at Council Bluffs, Iowa. 

Q. Where was the subscription for this stock made ? — A. The books 
were kept in Boston. 

Q. Was her husband frequently in Boston and New York I — A. I 
suppose very likely. I do not know. I have seen him in New York. 

Q. Where did he make his reports as engineer 1 — A. At the office of 
the company in New York when it was there, and in Boston after it 
was removed there. 

The examination of the witness was here suspended, in order to allow 
of the examination of another witness, Cornelius S. Bushnell. 



Washington, D. C, January 15, 1873. 
Cornelius S. Bushnell sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Question. State your residence—Answer. New Haven, Connecticut. 

Q. What relation do you sustain to the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany? — A. I was originally a corporator in the bill of 1862. I went to 
Chicago with the other corporators and helped to organize the company. 
In 1863 I was appointed on a committee to procure the first two millions 
subscription, necessary to organize the stockholders' company. I pro- 
cured over two millions of subscription on my book. I was in the organ- 
ization of the stockholders' company, at the election of the first board of 
directors. I was elected a member of the first board of directors and 
have been elected a member every year since, and on the executive 
committee every year until the last. 

Q. Who were the first directors that were elected % — A. John J. Cisco, 
Thomas C. Durant, General Dix, Charles A. Lambard, George F. Black, 
E. W. Dunham, E. T. H. Gibson, Pickering Clark, J. F. D. Lanier, A. J. 
Jerome, A. A. Low, George F. M. Davis, August Belmont, L. C. Clark, 
Charles Tuttle, Henry D. Poor, George Griswold, J. V. L. Pruyn, E. H. 
Eosekranz, W. P. Ogden, J. F. Tracy, Nathaniel Thayer, Jos. H. Scran- 
ton, J. Edgar Thompson, Ebenezer Cook, John E. Henry, Aug. Koontz, 
John J. Blair, S. C. Pomeroy, and Henry S. McComb. 

Q. Now proceed in your own way and give, as fully as you can, the 
history of the transactions of the company from that time forward 
toward the letting and construction of the road. — A. That board of di- 
rectors met and formed a set of by-laws which have remained essen- 
tially the by-laws ever since. General Dix was elected as president 
and Mr. Cisco treasurer. An executive committee, of which I was one, 
was appointed, and also other committees. Doctor Durant and myself 
were appointed a committee to come to Washington and procure addi- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 6\) 

tional legislation, so that we could go on with the construction of the 
road. We came early in the session of 1863, and remained throughout 
that long session almost constantly in attendance. Our efforts resulted 
in the legislation of 1864, which is known to yon all. As soon as we 
procured that legislation we commenced the construction of the road, 
under an engineer by the name of Henry. 

Q. Describe how you commenced the construction ; what extent of 
line you surveyed ; from what point and to what point. — A. Just as 
soon as we secured subscriptions for two millions, Dr. Durant. and 
myself sent Prof. Dodge on to the proposed line of the Pacific Railroad 
to see if coal could be found. We had decided in our own minds that 
unless coal could be found we would go no further with the enterprise. 
He came back and reported to us that coal in abundance could be found 
west of the Rocky Mountains. We then appointed an engineer 'force 
to go on the line of the road and make preliminary surveys. We 
changed the line that was first located direct Avest from Omaha over 
the hills, and took rather a circuitous line south from Omaha, where we 
finally built the road. Mr. Durant and myself, and a few friends who 
were associated with us, went just as far as our means and our credit 
would go in the construction of the road in the year 1861. We 
found at the close of that year that in order to make any kind of pro- 
gress we had to get in more aid. We made the most vigorous efforts 
with capitalists in New York to induce them to go into the enterprise. 
No one would do it individually, as we were doiug it. We made a con- 
tract with Mr. Hoxie to build a hundred miles, which contract was after- 
ward extended to the hundredth meridian. 

Q. Yv T here was the eastern end of Hoxie's contract ? — A. At Omaha. 

Q. State what surveys were made before the letting to Hoxie and 
by whom. — A. Surveys were made by Engineer Henry. 

Q. What was the character of his surveys j were they complete sur- 
veys, with profiles 1 — A. Everything perfect, with estimates and every- 
thing. 

Q. What length of line did he survey and report % — A. I think the 
first 100 miles. 

Q. And then there was a letting*? — A. Yes. 

Q. That letting was made on the report of the engineer, Henry ? — A. 
Yes. 

Q. Was it a public letting, for which bids were advertised? — A. Mr. 
Durant was appointed a committee to let the road. The details of that 
I cannot tell. I sanctioned the letting. 

Q. Can you state the rate at which it was let to Hoxie? — A. My 
memory is, about $50,000 per mile. 

Q. The Hoxie contract was afterward extended to the hundredth me- 
ridian? — A. Yes. 

Q. How much did that extension add to the length of the Hoxie con- 
tract ! — A. It made two hundred and forty-odd miles, I think. 

Q. Was there a second letting to Hoxie after he had taken his first 
contract for a hundred miles ? — A. No, sir ; there was only one letting to 
Hoxie. He could not move without funds, and Dr. Durant and myself 
guaranteed him funds to the extent of our abilities, and when he got as 
far as he could it was found absolutely necessary to get in more capital 
that would not come in under personal responsibility. The result was 
the Organization of the Credit Mobilier. I had bought a charter myself 
in Connecticut, but we afterward decided to take a charter passed by 
the Pennsylvania legislature, in which there was no personal liability 
beyond the capital stock. The sole object was to bring in more capital, 



40 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILEOAD. 

and we could not bring it in with personal liability. Hoxie assigned nis 
contract to the Credit Mobilier. After the most persevering efforts we 
increased the capital to two and a half millions. We came to Mr. Ames 
and got him to take a large amount of the stock. This was in 186.5. We 
had gone on one year and had done our best. The next year we got Mr. 
Ames to take hold, but we soon used up ail the money that he put in. 
We then got Mr. Ames to intercede with his friends, and he got in Oliver 
Ames, his brother, and various other parties, and we increased the cap- 
ital stock that was finally paid in to two and one-half millions. By the 
superhuman efforts almost of Mr. Ames with all his friends we got the 
capital up to two and one-half millions, and went through 1865 and 1866, 
and carried the road out to the hundredth meridian and completed it and 
had a grand excursion, in which there were, I think, 150 |)eople. All 
this was prior to getting any road across Iowa, and we had to get our 
iron up the Missouri Eiver on boats, and had to get our ties with great 
difficulty from everywhere. 

Q. State the date of the assignment to the Credit Mobilier of the 
Hoxie contract. — A. The record shows that. It was just about the time 
that we got in these new parties — late in 1864 or early in 1865. 

Q. At what rate per mile was the rest of the contract taken by Hoxie 
up to the hundredth meridian % — A. The record shows that. As nearly 
as I can recollect it was $50,000 a mile for the whole of it. If not that, 
it was a little less than $50,000. 

Q. How was he to be paid for his work ?— A. He was to be paid in 
certain securities in the road, I think; a certain amount in cash and a 
certain amount in securities. 

Q. Do you recollect what you received from the Government of the 
United States for this part of the road u ? — A. Sixteen thousand dollars a 
mile of Government bonds and twenty sections of land. 

Q. Go on with your narrative. — A. I have got to the time of the ex- 
cursion in 1865. We had then used up all the Government bonds, and 
we had hypothecated three or four millions of the first-mortgage bonds 
of the company ; and many of our people were seriously discouraged. 
We had meeting after meeting to discuss what course we should take 
and how we should go on with the road. It all culminated in a meeting 
at the Fifth Avenue Hotel in New York, in December, 1866, or January, 
1867, in which we decided that we would increase the capital stock of 
the Credit Mobilier $1,250,000, giving to the holders of old stock 50 per 
cent, dividends in first-mortgage bonds. 

Q. At that time the Credit Mobilier had no relation with the Union 
Pacific Eailroad except to lend it money % It had no contract to con- 
struct the road or anything of that kind ?— A. Fo, sir. The Credit Mo- 
bilier had no contract then for the construction of the road. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. What I want to know is where the bonds ca'inefrom that you gave 
to the new stockholders to enlarge the stock of the Credit Mobilier. — 
A. These were first-mortgage bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany, of which they could issue $16,000 to the mile. The Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company had not sold a bond up to spring of 1867. 

Q. Who gave them the bonds ?— A. The Credit Mobilier took this 
$1,250,000, which it got from its new subscribers, and furnished it to the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company for this $1,250,000 in bonds. This re- 
lieved the Union Pacific Eailroad Company of so much debt. It re- 
lieved it of $1,250,000 of debt out of a debt of $3,500,000 or $1,000,000. 
These bonds were given to the old owners of Credit Mobilier 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 41 

stock. A great many of these old subscribers could not take their por- 
tion of the new stock, and many others thought that the thing looked 
so blue that they would not take it. Besides, Mr. Duff thought it 
would be impossible to sell the Union Pacific Eailroad bonds until they 
extended the line to some place where the cars would be running, and 
I contended that. the affair would be an utter failure if we had to wait 
till that time, and that we could sell the bonds. Various parties in New 
York and Boston said to me, " Now, if you will get any parties to take 
this Credit Mobilier stock, we will give you 5 per cent, cash for 
every share that you will get placed with other parties." I had got all 
that I was worth embarked in the enterprise, an (J being an original 
corporator I was determined to put it through. I went to New York 
and I placed $130,000 or $140,000 worth of this stock. Dr. Durant 
gave me 5 per cent, to place $100,000 of his stock, and I placed 
it; that is, 1. sold it all the way from 95 to 97 J and up to 100. 
When we got that $1,250,000 spent we came to a stand-still almost as 
bad as before. The result was that the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany allowed me to undertake the sale of the four or five millions of the 
first-mortgage bonds that we had on hand, and on which we were bor- 
rowing money at extravagant rates of interest ; I do not think at less 
than 14J per cent. 

Q. As I understand you the Credit Mobilier was at that time under 
no obligation to construct any portion of the railroad and had no right 
to contract for the construction of any portion? — A. No legal right. 

Q. So that when a stockholder put his stock into the Credit Mobilier, it 
was simply paying so much money to that institution, and having that 
institution pay it over to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company for its 
bonds, and delivering the bonds over to the stockholders ; is that the 
substance of it ? — A. That was it ; but you ought to know that, although 
there was no written contract, it was a distinct .understanding that a 
contract should be made, and that the contractor, if not the Credit 
Mobilier, should be summoned, who would give the benefits of the con- 
tract, any profits to be made from it, to the holders of the Credit Mobilier 
stock. That w T as a distinct understanding. 

Q. Between whom ? — A. Between all parties. 

Q. Do you mean between the managers of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company on one side and the managers and stockholders of the Credit 
Mobilier stock on the other side? — A. Yes, and these were identical 
people. 

Q. When was that understanding first reached? — A. At the time we 
increased the stock of the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. You say that at that time there was an understanding that when- 
ever the contract was made for the construction of the Union Pacific 
Railroad, it should be given only to such persons as would hold it for 
the benefit of the holders of the Credit Mobilier stock ? — A. Thatis 
esssentially it ; and the records of the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
and of the Credit Mobilier show an effort to make a contract directly 
between the Union Pacific Railroad Company and the managers of the 
Credit Mobilier. I was not so particular as Dr. Durant, because Dr. 
Durant said he would never consent that a contract should be made 
between the directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company and the 
stockholders and managers of the Credit Mobilier, both being interested 
in each concern, so that it would be making a contract with themselves. 
He said he would never consent to it unless there was a written consent 
from every stockholder in the Union Pacific Railroad Company. He 
went to law about it twice, and stopped it by injunctions, so that finally 



42 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

he and I united together to compel the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany not to make any contract with the directors. Mr. Ames was not 
a director either in the Union Pacific Railroad Company or the Credit 
Mobilier, and so they made a contract with Mr. Ames, who assigned it 
to the owners of the Union Pacific Railroad Company and the Credit 
Mobilier. Dr. Durant and myself refused to let that contract go into 
effect until the written consent of every stockholder of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company was had. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. If I understand you now, it was distinctly agreed prior to the 
Oakes Ames contract, between the Union Pacific Railroad Company, on 
the one part and the Credit Mobilier on the other part, that the person 
who took the contract for building the road should assign the benefits of 
the contract to the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier ?— A. I cannot 
answer that in that way. I want it understood that the owners of the 
Credit Mobilier, being the owners of the Union Pacific Railroad stock, 
felt perfectly satisfied that there would be no arrangement made to the 
prejudice of the common interest. There was no understanding or con- 
tract, but a feeling of that kind under which we were going to go ahead 
until we came to some adjustment. It was understood that that would 
be done and that the interests of all would be protected. 

We did not let anything hinder us going on with the work. Mr. Duff, 
Mr. Durant, and Mr. Dillon started off to drive the work, and they left 
me with authority to sell ten millions of bonds. Mr. Duff said to me, 
" You will not sell these bonds." Then said I, " Mr. Duff, you need not 
go out there to spend money." But I went to work, employed an ad- 
vertising agent, and started advertisements in every leading paper in 
the Northwest and New England, and I sent traveling agents to every 
leading city. My most sanguine expectations were realized, and in less 
than six months I sold ten millions of bonds, and put the price up from 
90, at which we had started, to 95. That furnished us with money, so 
that we were out of the woods so far as financial difficulties were con- 
cerned. 

Q. State by whom were these bonds sold. Was it by the Union Pa- 
cific Railroad Company or by the Credit Mobilier f And state who owned 
them at the time of the sale. — A. They were sold by the treasurer of 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and the proceeds went into the 
treasury of the Union Pacific Railroad Company. I acted as agent for 
their sale. The money received from them was paid out on estimates 
of the work as it went along. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. State' whether any commission was paid to the Credit Mobilier for 
the sale of these ten millions of bonds. — A. No, sir ; not a cent. They 
were sold exclusively for the benefit of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company. While we were succeeding so well in selling the bonds our 
people came back and reported that, instead of the terrible Rocky Moun- 
tains, that. we supposed would have been immensely costly to build a 
road through, a route had been found by the Black Bills so easy that 
the cost would be comparatively light. This was in the fall of 1867. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. State when the Union Pacific Railroad Company made their first 

surveys and location of its road west of the hundredth meridian as it was 

finally built under the Oakes Ames contract. — A. We had corps of 

engineers comparatively a few miles apart over these mountains, and 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 43 

we decided upon and adopted this line of the Black Hills in the spring 
of 1867. 

Q. Who was the engineer that had charge of that part of the survey 
which covered the region of the Black Hills? — A. Engineer Evans was 
really the man entitled to the credit of discovering this pass. My first 
knowledge of the pass was in the spring of 1867. 

Q. And it was reported to be a comparatively easy pass at that 
time 1 ? — A. Yes, sir, a much easier pass than we had anticipated. 
. Q. What was the character of the survey reported to you by your 
engineers as having been made at that time; I mean as to the extent 
of the observations and survey ? Was it an instrumental survey or was 
it mere ocular observations ? — A. I know nothing of the details of the 
survey. I may be mistaken as to the time I learned of this pass. Per- 
haps it was not so early as I have stated. 

Q. Go on with your statement. — A. I had got to where we had sold 
the bonds, and when we had all found that it was not going to cost us 
so much to get over the Kocky Mountains as we had anticipated. The 
result of that was that in the fall of 1867 the Credit Mobilier stock 
went up first to 160. The first notice that I had of the advance was 
that some one sold at 160 to 165 ; and before the next summer it went 
up still higher. 

Q. When was that date?— A. That was in the fall of 1867. 

Q. Was the Credit Mobilier stock quoted in the newspapers ? — A. 
No, sir ; but I learned of the sale. The first sale that I knew of was a 
sale by Mr. Alley to Mr. Peter Butler. I understood that it was at 160 
or 165. I have learned since this discussion that it was still higher. 

Q. You let the contract for building these six hundred and sixty-seven 
miles west of the hundredth meridian to Oakes Ames? — A. Yes. 

Q. You let that on actual surveys and location by your engineer !— 
A. Yes. 

Q. Who was that engineer? — A. The chief engineer, who was really 
the letting engineer, was General Dodge, but he was not the construct- 
ing engineer, nor the engineer on whom I think Mr. Durant relied the 
most for the work to be done. We had a consulting engineer in New 
York, Mr. Seymour ; a constructing engineer, Mr. Reed, and an assist- 
ant engineer, Mr. Evans, who had active charge of the line, and many 
others. Mr. Durant was very careful about their reports. He did not 
rely upon General Dodge alone, but he sent out his constructing en- 
gineer. I do not think they perfected the route over the Eocky Moun- 
tains until late in 1867. 

Q. Describe now in what form the reports of the engineers were made 
to the company prior to the letting of the contract to Mr. Ames. If 
they included profiles of the road, state that. Describe fully what kind 
of reports were made and how full and complete they were. — A. I know 
that the reports were very voluminous. 

Q. Did they cover the whole six hundred and sixty-seven miles which 
Mr. Ames took? — A. That is my impression. 

Q. Then they did let the contract on actual surveys, and not on im- 
aginary ones?— A. On actual surveys. 

Q. How was that letting conducted ? Was there an offer made by 
the Union Pacific Eaiiroad Company to all the world to come in and 
take the work at the lowest bid % — A. I do not think there was. 

Q. How was it done ?— A. I cannot say ; it was done during my sick- 
ness, which confined me four or five weeks in my home in Connecticut. 

Q. Go on with your narrative. — A. We went on with, the work with 
great rapidity, laying two or three miles of track a day, until the year 



44 CREDIT MOBILIEB AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

of 1867 or 1868. We worked under the Oakes Ames contract during 
the winter of 186S-'69, and I think that every yard of earth laid through 
the winter of 1869 cost us more than similar work would have cost us 
by the rod at another time. It was immensely expensive. 

Q. State why the Union Pacific Eailroad Company deemed it neces- 
sary to work in such weather and under such disadvantageous circum- 
stances. — A. We had intrusted to Dr. Durant the conduct of that depart- 
ment, and made him chief of it, and he deemed it the wisest and best 
course (and I do not know but that the result has justified it) to drive 
the work on as fast as possible, so that the immense interest account 
which was accumulating should not break the company. 

Q. Was this the completion of the work?— A. Yes, in 1868-'69. 

Q. Was not this a part of the reasons — that there was a strife between 
the Union and Central Pacific Railroad Companies which should get 
the largest portion of the subsidy ; and was not the pushing of the work 
owing to that consideration in part 1 — A. I think that that had its effect 
on Dr. Durant. He and I disagreed there. 

Q. Did not the two roads lap ! — A. Yes, the grading of the two roads 
lapped. In the fall and summer of 1868, Dr. Durant sent a force out 
beyond Promontory, and expended considerable money in grading over 
there, and the Central Pacific Eailroad Company sent parties grading 
on the line of our road. 

Q. What was the largest lap ? — A. The lap in grading, I should say, 
was forty or fifty miles. 

Q. Was there a controversy between the two companies afterward as 
to which should have the benefit of the subsidy for that lap ? — A. In- 
dividuals came here representing our company and secured an act of 
Congress in our favor. 

Q. What was the date of that act of Congress ? — A. It was in the fall 
or winter of 1869. 

Q. That secured the benefits of the construction to the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company? — A. Yes, to Promontory. Since then we have sold 
to the other company the privilege of coming to within five miles of 
Ogden. 

Q. What distance is that from the hundredth meridian ? — A. It is 
somewhat over eight hundred miles. 

Q. How far is it from where the eastern end of the Ames contract 
began? — A. Something over eight hundred miles. 

Q. How do >ou explain the difference between six hundred and sixty- 
seven miles and this eight hundred miles ? — A. Dr. Durant, as the vice- 
president of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, in order that there 
should be no delay in driving the work, made a contract himself, while 
on the line of the road, with a gentleman named Davis, one of the sub- 
contractors there, to continue beyond the Ames contract. 

Q. Mr. Ames's contract then stood in its original form, and was com- 
pleted without ever being modified at any time ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the residue of the construction to the western terminus was 
bv Davis? — A. Yes. 

Q. When was that contract let to Davis ?— A. In the fall of 1868. 

Q. Have you anything here that enables you to state to the committee 
at what price the Davis contract was let ? — A. No, I have not ; and I 
cannot tell from memory. 

Q. Describe to the committee generally the character of the route ; 
describe what the difficulties were, where they were special, and then 
give us the general lay and character of the country that you had to 
build the road through.— A. The first difficult work was over the hills 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND' UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 45 

west of Omaha ; but after we got out forty miles from Omaha, the Cre- 
ator could not have given us a better country to build a line of railroad 
through, and that continued nearly out to the base of the Eocky 
Mountains. 

Q. What distance is that ? — A. Five hundred and seventeen miles. 

Q. That country was as good as nature could have made it '? — A. Yes, 
sir. It is decomposed granite at the base, which will be for ever just as 
perfect as can be. We built the road just as perfect as a railroad can 
be built, and we built it at great -rapidity and at an immense cost for 
everything. The cost of building a road and driving it so fast is almost 
fabulous ; but we saved the extra expense in interest. 

Q. Why did that great increase of cost result from the rapidity with 
which you did the work ? — A. It resulted from the immense surplus of 
help we had to have in doing the work so fast. For instance, you had 
a thousand men to lay the track. If there was any little delay in pro- 
curing the materials these thousand men were idle, and so in every other 
department. 

Q. You have got now to the foot of the Eocky Mountains ; how near 
was that to the western end of the 667 miles of the Oakes Ames con- 
tract ? — A. About half way. 

Q. Describe the road from that onward. — A. The road from that over 
the Eocky Mountains was nothing like as expensive as we expected it 
to be, although it was very expensive through the granite of the Eocky 
Mountains and up a road of 80 to 90 feet to the mile and circuitous. 
Then there was the bridge over Dale Creek, a chasm of 600 or 700 feet 
and 130 feet high. We had to get all the materials out there ahead of 
the road, and it cost ten times as much to build that bridge as it would 
cost now. And so down the mountains beyond the Dale Creek bridge 
it was solid rock all the way through till we got to Laramie plains. 
From the Laramie plains till the valley of the Green Eiver was compar- 
atively an easy road to build. One mistake was that an old Government 
director, Jesse L. Williams, a very nice man, and Mr. Brinkerhofer, an- 
other nice man, insisted upon our making a cut through every rising in 
the Laramfe plains, which probably cost us millions of dollars, as we had 
afterward to till up these cuts. I was satisfied at the time that it was 
a great mistake, but they thought otherwise. Then we came to the Green 
Eiver, which was a very costly and expensive place to build a road and 
we came out to the Carbon and got to the coal fields, and dow T n Butte 
Creek, where it was impossible for the cattle to drink the water without 
dying. There was no vegetation there. Every particle of corn and 
hay and grain for the cattle, and food for the men, had to be carried 
ahead 200 or 300 miles, where the men were doing the grading. A pound 
of corn, brought there, cost perhaps twenty times as much as it cost 
where it started from. Ail this made the construction mighty expensive. 
It' we could have waited to complete the road till 1876, 1 think we could 
have built the road at less than half of what it actually cost us ; but 
then, on the other hand, the interest account would have ruined us. We 
built the road seven years inside of our time. 

Q. When was the road completed*— A. On the 10th of May, 1869, 
more than seven years inside of the time allowed. One of the incidental 
advantages from the early finishing of the road has been that over 
twelve millions worth of silver has been brought from Salt Lake Valley 
alone this year, by which the country will profit several times the inter- 
est paid on the bonds. This is clean profit to the country, of course. One 
little lead and silver mine which I and my associates bought for 
812,500, we sold to the people of Amsterdam for $400,000. I give that as 



46 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

an instance of the advantages of having- completed the road before 1876. 
We want a little credit for this in anything that you may find objection- 
able in our transactions. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Suppose the claim that has been made, that the interest on the 
Government bonds is payable by the company as it accrues, be insisted 
on, is the road in a condition to be able to meet it ? — A. I do not think 
that for the past three or four years the road could have met it in 
addition to its other interest. I hope to see the road earning enough 
to do it. The past earnings would not justify it. 

Q. Do these Pacific roads meet promptly the interest on their first- 
mortgage bonds? — A. Yes, sir ; and on their land-grant bonds, and on 
their income bonds. 

Q. Has the Union Pacific Eailroad Company borrowed any money for 
that purpose ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Is it still unpaid ? — A. Yes. 

Q. How much ? — A. We borrowed $600,000 to pay the interest due 
this January. 

Q. What is the condition of the road as to repair? — A. It is in per- 
fect order. 

Q. Has the road steel rails or iron ? — A. Iron rails. 

Q. What are the resources of the road to meet its debts ; what prop- 
erty has it? — A. To benefit the road and advance its interests, the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company has loaned money to extend the Utah 
Central and the Utah Southern down in that mining region, and the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company holds the security of those roads for 
the money advanced. If it had not advanced that money it would have 
had money enough to meet its interest on the first-mortgage bonds, but 
not on the Government bonds. 

Q. On what do you rely for your ability to meet the Government ad- 
vances—that $27,000,000 — when it comes due ? — A. Well, I was one of 
the contracting parties with the Government, and I utterly misunder- 
stood the Government's part of the contract, if it was not this 

Q. Please answer my question. You can make any explanation you 
think necessary afterward. — A. Well, we expect to pay the Government 
for its advances to us in half the transportation and 5 per cent, of the 
net profits of the road. 

Q. Have you yet had any such net profits as would warrant that ex- 
pectation? — A. Not yet; but we anticipate an immense increase. 

Q. Then, the means with which you expect to meet the debts of the 
road, as they become due in the future, are to come from business here- 
after to be developed? — A. Yes; I suppose we shall do it exactly ac- 
cording' to the provisions of the bill. 

Q. Would the road, in your judgment, be able to develop that busi- 
ness much faster if it had greater pecuniary resources % — A. I think the 
directors are making up for the lack of the company in that particular. 

Q. But I am asking about the company; whether, in your judgment, 
it would be able to perform better the functions of a railroad company 
for the public benefit, and to develop the resources of the country 
through which it passes, if it had greater pecuniary resources % — A. I 
can't see anything that it has left undone ; if it had millions of money, 
I can't see what it could do more. 

Q. It has been obliged, you say, to borrow money to meet its inter- 
est? — A. Yes; but that is merely a temporary advance for sixty or 
ninety days. We only anticipate the earnings of the road a little. 



CREDIT M0BIL1ER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 47 

Q. Then it is your opinion that the road does everything for the pub- 
lic that it could do if it had ten or twenty millions more capital on 
hand! — A. Everything that can be done to accommodate the public is 
being done. 

Q. What was the market value of the stock of the road three months 
ago ? — A. Its average price last year was 38 ; the average right through 
the year. 

Q. On what capital % — A. Nearly thirty-seven millions. 

Q. How high has it been during the past year ? — A. Forty -two. 

By Mr. Slocum : 
Q. How high has it been at any time ? — A. It was at one time, in the 
summer of 1870, 45J to £5f. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. So that, judged of by the average price — I do not speak of times 
when it has been depressed or raised by special causes — the value of the 
stock of the road is 42 per cent, ou its par? — A. Well, it has not for the 
three years averaged that. For the last year it has averaged 38, and 
that is a fair average. 

By Mr. Shell abarger : 

Q. What is the character of the bridges on the road % — A. The bridges 
on the entire line of the road are most substantial. They are not iron 
bridges, but the foundations are all masonry, and ready for iron. When 
we were building the road it was impossible to get iron ahead, but since 
the construction of the road we have kept on steadily and filled up 
nearly all the wooden structures with solid materials, so that I don : t 
suppose there is a road in the world that has so little of wooden struct- 
ures on it. 

Q. Is there a double track ? — A- No, sir, a single track ; but our turn- 
outs are very long — a mile long. One-sixth of the road, if I remember 
right, is turn-outs. 

Q. How are depot-buildings and the accommodations generally along 
the line, and how is your supply of rolling-stock ; is it adequate? — A. 
O, yes ; most magnificent. The depots are very complete, ami our roll- 
ing-stock is very large. Our locomotives are in splendid order. Our 
bridge across the Missouri is one of the most magnificent bridges in the 
country. 

Q. Has the stock sold as low as $9 a share ? — A. I bought it as low as 
$0 a share three years ago, when the question of the Government's with- 
holding one-half was before the public. There is one point more that 
goes into the case of the road very largely. The road has cost a great 
deal of money, and we have to explain and apologize for that. I don't 
know, either, as we have to apologize for it ; I take that back, but we 
have toexpla in it. It is owing to the rapidity with which we built it 
and the trouble that arose in the spring of 1869. In the spring of 1S69, 
we had on hand in New York ten millions of the first-mortgage bonds ; 
we had on hand seven millions and odd of land-grant bonds, on all of 
which we had borrowed every dollar we could get on them. We had 
made the fatal mistake of putting the price of our bonds so high that 
the sales had stopped completely. We were spending an immense 
amount of money in advertising, but no bonds were sold, because we 
had put them too high. We had an immense debt on hand, not less 
than thirteen or fourteen millions, and just then Fisk came down upon 



48 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

ns with his blackmailing suit, just as we were going to hold an election. 
You know the history of Judge Barnard's taking possession of our office. 
Our bonds were scattered, and every single director of the road was 
driven out of New York, with some apprehension of Ludlow-street jail — - 
every single one of them except myself. The book-keepers were driven 
out, and the bonds, in the great hurry to get them away from the reach of 
the sheriff, were scattered, and many of them lost. I gathered them up, 
all I could, and disposed of them at 85 for the first-mortgage bonds, and 
55 for the land-grants, to raise money to meet the obligations of thirteen 
or fourteen millions that were due in New York and out along the line of 
the road. I took hold, and I told Judge Barnard that he could not drive 
me out of New York ; that he might shut me up, but he could not drive 
me out. Fisk had told us, " I will break you up so that you cannot pay 
your obligations, and the first one you default on I will buy it up, and 
so on, until I get control of the road, the same as with Erie." He 
bragged that he would do that ; and I suppose the company had to sac- 
rifice six or seven millions on account of that attack on us. 

By Mr. ShELLABARGER : 

Q. You speak of the land-grant bonds ; just describe what they 
were. — A. There was a mortgage made early in 1867, I think, or possi- 
bly a year before that, mortgaging our lands, all of them, to Cyrus H. 
McCormick and John Duff, trustees, and those bonds were disposed of 
to raise money to complete the road. Not a dollar of that money, as I 
remember, was divided in dividends or otherwise disposed of. 

Q. What is the amount of the land-grant bonds outstanding upon 
your unsold lands ?— A. We have sold lands enough so that when the 
notes are paid there will not be over seven and a half millions out. 
There are now about eight millions of bonds out. 

Q. You speak about the enormous increase of cost of the road to the 
company on account of the great speed with which it was constructed. 
State what per cent, less the work could have been done for if you had 
constructed it at only an ordinary rate of speed. — A. It is my impres- 
sion that we could have built the road for one-half what it cost if we 
had taken the seven years longer. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Would it have required the whole additional seven years to have 
completed the road, working at an ordinary rate of speed ? — A. Yes, 
sir; at ordinary speed we could not have done it or got it done inside 
of the time allowed. 

Q. What part of the road was constructed with such great speed that 
it cost double what it would have cost at an ordinary rate of speed ? 
That does not apply to Hoxie's part, or to any part where the speed was 
ordinary ? — A. The whole road was constructed with extraordinary speed 
beyond the one hundredth meridian. 

Q. How much do you say that part cost you ? — A. I think it was not 
far from $100,000,000. One hundred millions is the amount of the 
securities, taking the stock at par. 

Q. Then you make the amount lost by reason of the speed come 
to about $50,000,000?— A. 1 think the road cost 850,000,000 more than 
it would have cost if built at an ordinary speed. The entire road across 
the continent certainly did. I don't know that- ours did cost quite that. 

Q. That would have made your road cost about $50,000,000 if built 
at ordinary speed ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. But in building the road at ordinary speed, you would have taken 
the whole seven years H — A. Yes, sir. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 49 

Q. How much of that amount would you have used the first year, 
probably — a seventh part of it ? When did you commence building the 
road 1— A. In 1864. 

Q. Then you would have taken eleven years to build the road at an 
ordinary and economical rate of speed % — A. Yes. 
. Q. Then you would have divided the $50,000,000 by eleven %— A. Yes. 

Q. And you would have expended about four and a half millions a 
year?— A. Yes. 

Q. You would have required four and a half millions in 18G5, and so 
on each year % — A. Yes. 

Q. Then you would have had the interest on four and a half millions 
for eleven years, and so on down f You would have had only to use the 
capital of each year in the year in which that part of the road was con- 
structed 1 — A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. To make that calculation straight, you would have to deduct what 
you received for local traffic % — A. Yes, sir ; but you will have to remem- 
ber that we didn't get par for our securities. I can make this a little 
clearer. Suppose we take five years. Our earnings have averaged 
eight millions a year, which would have just paid the running expenses. 
We should always have been paying runniug expenses just the same 
without any earnings. No w, we have earned eight millions a year for five 
years — that is a fair average. That makes $40,000,000 on the Union 
Pacific, and we will assume that there has been nearly as much more on the 
Central Pacific ; that would be $80,000,000 on the two roads gained by the 
speed with which they were built. We saved that amount, which makes 
up for the great additional cost of rapid construction. I have thought 
-a great many times that the thing was just about evenly balanced — that 
the great cost of constructing the road was about balanced by the earn- 
ings for the years saved by the speedy construction. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. Then the increased speed at which the road was constructed w r as 
no disadvantage to the company % — A. Not at all ; but it accounts for 
the great cost. A great many say that we did a wrong to the Govern- 
ment, it being jointly interested with us ; but I say that it was a great 
advantage to the country. This year alone we have about $12,000,000 
of mineral products from Salt Lake ; so that, if anything, there is 
great gain to the country in having driven the work so fast. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. Is this $8,000,000 annual earnings you speak of net or gross ? — A. 
Gross. 

Q. What have been the net earnings ?— A. About $3,300,000, which 
is just about enough to pay the interest on the first-mortgage bonds, the 
land-grant bonds, the income-bonds, and half to th'e Government. 

By Mr. SWANN : 
Q. That amount includes the company's service in transporting ma- 
terials 1 — A. No ; we never put anything done for the company into the 
earnings account. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. Have you anything in your possession, or can you direct us to 
anythiug, which shows how much the Government has saved by having 
4 M 



50 CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

this railroad in operation? I am not speaking now of the right to re- 
tain any part of the earnings of the road in serving the Government; I am 
asking how mnch it has saved in its military and other transportation 
by nsing the railroad at existing rates, instead of doing the work in the 
old way. — A. I have ; and I will be most happy to furnish it to you. I 
will state now that up to 1871 it had saved over $50,000,000, and I will 
hereafter furnish the data on which that statement is based. 

Q. It is the claim of your company, as I understand, that under the 
proper construction of the two organic acts of 1862 and 1864, the Gov- 
ernment is not entitled to retain one-half of the proceeds of transporta- 
tion done for it, to apply to paying the interest? — A. That was our un- 
derstanding when the bill was passed. 

Q. When did you first hear or know of any different claim on the part 
of the Government, or any person ; when did you first know that that 
was a question? — A. That was in the fall of 1869 or 1870, in Boston ; I 
saw a letter there one day from the Treasury Department making that 
claim. 

Q. Had it never occurred to you, or been mentioned to you by any 
person in the management of the road, that there was any question on 
that subject? — A. The question never had arisen, so far as I know; 
among our counsel that we had here at Washington, when we passed 
the bill, there was no such idea. When we organized in 1863, William 
B. Ogden made the point, in his opening address, that it would be 
absolutely necessary for the Government to relinquish one-half the 
earnings for transportation to the company for the company's use, and 
that it would not be safe to undertake the work otherwise ; and we or- 
ganized with Mr. Ogden as president, with that understanding. 

Q. I wish to know when it occurred to the company that there was a 
doubt on that subject? — A. So far as I remember, it was in the fall of 
1870. 

By Mr. SvrANN : 

Q. In the examination of Mr. Ames, yesterday, I asked him some 
questions in regard to the engineer service of the Credit Mobilier after 
he came into possession of the road ; whether or not he required reports 
from his chief engineer, who was acting under him in the construction 
of that road — what the estimates of the engineers were in regard to the 
cost of the road ; and I asked also for any information he could give us 
upon that general subject. ]STow, I want to know from you who was the 
chief engineer having control of that portion of the road which was 
taken possession of by Mr. Ames under the Mobilier contract; who 
was the chief engineer having control of the whole line placed in charge 
of Mr. Ames ? — A. On the part of the company or on the part of Mr. 
Ames's assignees? He assigned to seven trustees. 

Q. I know ; but I look upon him as the representative of those trus- 
tees. He turned the business over to them to do certain things, which 
they performed? — A. Yes, sir. The engineer in charge representing 
Mr. Ames was Mr. Beed. He was the chief construction engineer. The 
chief engineer of the company at the time was General G. M. Dodge, 
and the consulting engineer in New York was Mr. Seymour. 

Q. Was the Credit Mobilier in the habit of receiving monthly reports 
from the chief engineer as to the cost of construction ? — A. The Credit 
Mobilier, after the execution of the Ames contract, had practically no 
more to do with the construction of the road than you had ; it was done 
under those seven trustees. 

Q. Who was the custodian of those monthly reports of the chief 
engineer? — A. I suppose they all came through him. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 51 

Q. The chief engineer of construction you mean ? — A. Yes. The re- 
ports came from Mr. Iieed to the secretary of the seven trustees. 

Q. Were those estimates submitted to anybody else than the trustees 
before they came into the hands of Mr. Ames ? — A. I don't think it. 

Q. I take it for granted that when he made the contract he had the 
estimates of the engineers before him upon which to base his contract ? — 
A. That is a matter that Dr. Durant can post you fully upon ; it is not 
in my department. 

Q. You don r t know what became of those estimates ? I suppose the 
disbursements were made upon those monthly exhibits of the cost of 
the road as you were progressing? — A. Those were all handed in at the 
office, and Mr. Durant can give you an account of what became of them, 
as that was in his department and charge. Mr. Ames or myself would 
not be likely to know anything about that. 

Q. Well, we desire to have that information if we can procure it, 
because we can ascertain in that way the cost as estimated by the en- 
gineer corps. — A. I think you will be entirely satisfied with what you 
will get from Mr. Durant on that subject. 

Q. You state that these papers passed into your hands after your 
connection with the Credit Mobilier — I mean the archives of the con- 
cern — and that you have had control of the chest containing them ? — 
A. Yes; the trustees. 

Q. Did you know what papers were in that chest? — A. In general. I 
knew that the reports were there. 

Q. I mean to ask whether you knew the contents of that chest — any- 
thing connected with the Credit Mobilier? — A. In general I did; not in 
detail. 

Q. You knew where that chest was sent to when it was removed, and, 
in general terms, what it contained at the time it passed under your 
control ? — A. If you mean all the results . 

Q. I mean everything that pertained to the Credit Mobilier and its 
transactions; what they had in their possession after Ames made the 
contract, which, I understand from you, was after the transfer of many 
of the papers to the trustees. — A. The details of that I don't know ; but 
I can name some things. They had one thousand or more acres of land 
at Council Bluffs, which they- owned or were holding in trust; they had 
some shares of stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad; they held obligations 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company to the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. Had you any reason to believe that any of the papers contained 
in that chest were abstracted at any time, or disappeared after they 
passed into your possession? — A. I don't know of the disappearance of 
a single. paper, except what grew out of the Fisk and Barnard raid; at 
that time everything was scattered broadcast. 

Q. W T ere they in the habit of keeping the reports of the engineers in 
that, after the trustees took possession? — A. Everything was kept snug 
and in perfect order. 

Q. Everything was kept in that chest?— A. Everything, at No. 20 
Nassau street, was kept perfectly snug and in perfect order, so that Mr. 
Crane could at any time get every paper and every contract and report 
of the engineers, all perfect. 

Q. I understand from Mr. Ames that he does not know where to put 
his hands on these reports ; that they are not here, and he does not 
know whether he can get them.— A. Well, it is not strange. I have not 
the power to get them, but I thiuk you will be able to get all you want 
from Dr. Durant. 

Q. I allude particularly to the report of the engineers as to the cost 



52 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

of the work per mile ; do you think he has those ? — A. I think he can 
give you the reports and everything that you want, from the construc- 
tion engineer and the company's engineer. I have not conferred with 
him about it, but that was in his department. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Can you tell me what the earnings of the road have been, year by 
year, since it was completed ? What were the gross, and what the net, 
earnings the first year after it was completed % — A. In general- 1 can 
tell you what they were ; but the books will show better. You had 
better have those. 

Q. Can I get that information from Mr. Durant ? — A. I think you 
would have to get that from the treasurer, in Boston. I cannot give 
you any exact figures, but the average has been eight millions a year 
every year since the 10th of May, 1869. That is the average gross 
earnings. 

Q. I don't want the average earnings now; I want to ascertain 
whether the earnings have increased from year to year ; and if so, at 
what rate.- — A. I can give you that. The earnings for 1869 and 1870, 
until the 10th of May, (if you put it that way,) were the largest earn 
ings that the road has ever made, except this year. In 1870 and 1871 
the Kansas Pacific road was completed to Colorado, and the Denver 
Pacific and Cheyenne, which reduced the gross earnings of the Union 
Pacific nearly $1,000,000, so that the gross earnings fell off to seven 
millions and a half; but this year we have come up again to eight mil- 
lions and a half or three-quarters. We lost a million by the loss of the 
Colorado business, but we have begun to go ahead again, through the 
development of the Salt Lake mineral business; so that this year Octo- 
ber, November, and December were the largest months' earnings we 
have ever made. 

Q. What will be the effect upon your road of the completion of the 
Northern Pacific Bailroad ? That will be a competing line 1 — A. Yes, 
sir, a competing line, reducing the prices for through business ; but, in 
the mean time, the immense mineral resources of the Salt Lake Valley 
will undoubtedly keep up our earnings to the present standard, if not 
increase them. 

Q. That is conjectural, of course? — A. Of course. 

Q. What will be the effect upon your road of the completion of the 
South Pacific road ? Will that be another rival ?— A. That will affect 
us only so far as southern business with the Pacific coast is concerned. 
That line will have its own local business, all that it can handle. The 
mineral resources of the country on that line are perfectly enormous. 

Q. Will not that line tend to reduce your through business ? — A. I 
don't think it will. If so, it will be very little. 

Q. Do you not receive much of your business from the business which 
comes up the coast to San Francisco ? — A. Some, of course. 

Q. Will it not, then, be the tendency of that road to diminish your 
business from that quarter ? — A. The tendency of the construction 
of both the other roads would be to reduce the through business of the 
Union and the Central Pacific ; but we anticipate the development 
of other business to more than make up for any falling off on that 
account. 

Q. That is, you look to local developments along your line to com- 
pensate, or more than compensate, for the loss resulting from the con- 
struction of those two other roads ? — A. Yes, sir. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 53 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. Has the snow interfered with your road materially during the 
present season? — A. Not a day. Eunning a thousand miles, we have 
not been eight hours late this whole winter. 
By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Do you anticipate any increase in through business by reason of 
the development of commerce with the Asiatic nations % — A. We do ; 
we are getting it all the while. 

Q. And by reason also of the growth of San Francisco and the imme- 
diate country about it? — A. Yes, sir. And the Australian line has 
added immensely to our wool business duriug the past year, and an ad- 
ditional line to China is going to double our business with that country 
every month. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. What amount of bonds has the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
issued in all ? — A. Twenty-seven millions and a fraction of first-mortgage 
bonds ; ten millions four hundred thousand land-grant bonds in all, and 
ten millions of income-bonds in all. 

Q. And what amount of stock ? — A. A little under twenty-seven mil- 
lions, or thereabouts. 

Q. Who drew this tripartite contract between Mr. Ames, the Credit 
Mobilier, and the trustees ? — A. I don't exactly remember, because I 
was sick in Connecticut when that was drawn. 

Q. Who drew the contract between the railroad company and Mr. 
Ames? — A. The company's counsel ; that is my recollection. I signed 
it, and I remember reading it very carefully, but I cannot now say posi- 
tively who drew it. 

Q. Who drew the assignment of that contract by Mr. Ames ? — A. 
That 1 don't remember. I should have known if I had not been sick, 
for I am sure a matter of detail of that kind would not have escaped 
me. 

Q. What, if anything, do you know about the payment of any of the 
money of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, or of the Credit Mobilier, 
to influence the election of Senators, or the election of members of the 
House of Eepresentatives ?— A. I do not know of the payment of a sin- 
gle dollar from first to last. 

Q. You have no knowledge of any payments of that kind? — A. None. 

Q. Have you ever heard of the payment or use of any moneys of 
either of those corporations in that way ? — A. Not the first cent. 

Q. Has any member of Congress, or have any members of Congress, 
been at any time attorneys of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, or 
of the Credit Mobilier ? If so, give the names. — A. I don't remember. 
I believe there was one instance where a member of Congress came in 
as counsel, but I don't think it was at the request of either of the com- 
panies. 

Q. Did that member of Congress act as attorney for the company in 
any way ? — A. I think not. The more I think of it, the more I think I 
am correct in saying that there has not been any member of Congress 
connected with either company as attorney. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Then I did not understand your answer to a previous question. 

Did you not say that a member of Congress did come in as attorney? — 

A. He came in and gave counsel, but I think it was at the request of 

some individual who was interested in the road. I think that neither 



54 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

the Union Pacific Company nor the CrediFMobilier has ever employed 
any member of Congress as counsel. ' ~^ m ^. 

Q. Was that action as counsel gratuitous ? — A. It was, so far as the 
companies were concerned. 

Q. Do you know of any member of Congress having received any 
money or other compensation for- that counsel f — A. I do not. 

By Mr. SwANN : 

Q. The company had no permanent counsel ? — A. O, yes ; we had 
permanent counsel. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Connected with Congress? — A. No, sir 5 not connected with Con- 
gress. We never had any counsel connected with Congress — perma- 
nently. 

Q. Who have been the attorneys of the Union Pacific Company and 
of the Credit Mobilier ? — A. Messrs. Tracy, Olmsted & Co. have been 
from the first, up to 1869 or 1870, the steady counsel of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company. They have had the assistance, in behalf of both 
the Union Pacific Company and the Credit Mobilier, of Messrs. Barlow, 
Larocque & Co., Barlow, Larocque &> McFarland, Judge Allen, now of 
the court of appeals of New York, Mr. Samuel J. Tilden, and several 
others — it would be difficult to name them all. 

Q. At whose instance was it that that member of Congress you have 
alluded to came in and gave counsel? — A. It is my impression that on 
one occasion Mr. Alley brought in a member of Congress as a friend of 
his. 

Q. When was that ?— A. I think it was in 1867. 

Q. With reference to what was that member brought in, to give 
counsel ? — A. We got into a quarrel between ourselves. The Boston 
and the New York interests, as we termed them, were at loggerheads ; 
they did not agree upon some line of policy. One of the things that 
brought around the disagreement was, that some members of the Bos- 
ton interest did not see the necessity of getting the consent in writing 
of every stockholder in the Union Pacific Company to whatever con- 
tract should be made, while Mr. Durant was determined that neither 
the Credit Mobilier nor anybody else should have the contract without 
the consent of all the stockholders of the Union Pacific. Quite a con- 
test or quarrel grew out of that, but it was settled up in a friendly way 
between ourselves, and that was the occasion of bringing in this gen- 
tleman, as — you might not call it as counsel, but to give advice. He 
certainly did not act as counsel for the companies any way ; but Mr. 
Alley, I think, brought in this gentleman, and I believe that Mr. McComb 
at the same time brought in Judge Black. Whether he was paid by the 
company or not I don't know, but at any rate he was not a member of 
Congress. 

. By Mr. Swann : 
Q. By whom was that other counsel paid ?— A. I don't know. The 
company did not pay either of them, to my knowledge. I wish to say 
now, on reflection, that it is possible that this gentleman to whom I 
refer was not then a member of Congress ; that this occasion when he 
was called in may have been prior to his election. He is now in Con- 
gress, and has been muoh of the time since that, but I think it is possi- 
ble that he was not in Congress at that time. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. We will ask you to give us his name, and then we can ascertain. — 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 55 

A. Well, it was General Butler. I think it possible that this was the 
year prior to his election to Congress. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. Was it before or atter the assent of the stockholders was obtained 
to this contract"? — A. I think it was before. 

Q. That assent was in writing, so that we can get at the date? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. You know it was before that, and was about the matter which 
that closed up and settled ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. State whether you know of any money having been paid, directly 
or indirectly, to Senator Harlan — any moneys of the Union Pacific 
Company or of the Credit Mobilier. — A. I don't tbink there ever was a 
dollar. 

Q. State whether or not any drafts, or any notes or acceptances, or 
any sort of paper on which money could be procured, were given to 
Senator Harlan. — A. Nothing of the kind that I know of; and I think 
I should have known it sure if there had been. 

Q. You never heard of anything of the sort ? — A. Not by the Credit 
Mobilier or the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. Was there by anybody ? — A. I was informed by Mr. Durant that 
he was going to assist Mr. Harlan — going to assist the friends of Sen- 
ator Harlan, to procure newspapers and to carry the election. Mr. 
Durant told me he was going to do it, and afterward he told me he had 
done it. 

Q. Who has kept the books and papers of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company; have you ever kept them yourself? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you kept the books, &c, of the Credit Mobilier ? — A. No. 

Q. At what time was it that Mr. Durant told you that he was going 
to assist Mr. Harlan ? — A. I can't remember the time, but it was some 
time prior to 1870, I think. 

Q. Was Mr. Harlan then a Senator, or w T as he Secretary of the Inte- 
rior ? — A. It is my impression that he was Secretary of the Interior. 

Q. What was the purpose to be attained by this assistance that was 
given to him ? — A. Sustaining one or two newspapers in Iowa that were 
friendly to Senator Harlan. 

Q. And Mr. Durant afterward told you that he had furnished assist- 
ance ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. But you don't know whether it was paid out of the moneys of the 
company? — A. I know that Mr. Durant said he had paid it himself. 
By Mr. Swann : 

Q. Did he tell you the amount that he had paid ?— A. Ten thousand 
dollars in all. 

By the Chairman : . 

Q. Have you any knowledge of any person connected with the Union 
Pacific Railway Company or the Credit Mobilier furnishing assistance 
to anybody else for the purpose of aiding in procuring an election, 
either to the Senate of the United States or to the House of Represen- 
tatives ? — A. Do you mean out of the funds of the Union Pacific Rail- 
way Company, or of the Credit Mobilier ? 

Q. I am speaking now of persons connected with either of those com- 
panies. Do you know of any person connected with the Union Pacific 
Railway Company or with the Credit Mobilier furnishing any assistance, 
directly or indirectly, to any person to secure an election to the Senate 
of the United States or the House of Representatives? — A. I know 



56 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD; 

nothing concerning other people's contributions* I always contribute* 
and always have contributed liberally ever since I have been a voter, 
for campaign expenses, but nothing more than that. 

Q. I am asking about furnishing funds to be used in this particular 
way ? — A. I know of nothing of the kind. 

Q. Did you yourself at any time furnish any funds for any such pur- 
pose? — A. Nothing more than my general subscription for campaign 
expenses. 

Q. Did you never furnish any money, directly or indirectly, to any 
individual to enable him to secure an election to either the Senate or 
the House or Eepresentatives I — A. I can't answer that. 

Q. Why is it that you cannot answer it ? — A. Well, it is barely possi- 
ble that I might answer it wrong. 

Q. If you had done such a thing as that, would not you be most likely 
to recollect it ? — A. Well, if I had, I say frankly I would not tell it. 

Q. Do you wish to be understood as saying that you cannot answer 
simply because you will not, or is it because you have not the ability to 
answer? — A. In the first place, I have contributed always right straight 
along every year for campaign expenses, and that contribution might 
possibly make me wrong if I said no, and, on the other hand, if I said 
yes, it might be wrong. 

Q. Well, if you have made any contributions and will explain them 
and let us get at the facts, then nobody will be likely to put a miscon- 
struction upon what you say. The facts are all we want. — A. I don't 
know how to answer the question. I tell you frankly,. I have hardly 
ever said no to a political campaign appeal, and I never expect to $ and 
I don't know that it is right. 1 might criminate myself, and I don't think 
you would ask me to do that. 

Q. No, sir ; if you put it upon the ground that you would criminate 
yourself, that raises another question. Do you put it upon that ground? 
— A. No, sir ; 1 do not ; I don't put it in that way. 

Q. Well, did you ever furnish, directly or indirectly, to any person 
who was a candidate for the Senate of the United States money to aid 
him in securing his election? — A. I should rather be excused from 
answering that question. 

The Chairman. I will submit it to the committee. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. Upon what ground do you ask to be excused ? Upon the ground 
of its criminating you? — A. No; I should not put it on that ground, but 
on the ground that I have always subscribed liberally for campaign 
purposes — alway responded liberally to assessments made upon me for 
political purposes 3 and never have done it in any underhanded or special 
way. 

The Chairman. If that is the only ground,. I submit that the witness 

ought to be required to answer. 

* 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Have you in your mind any transaction of that nature which you 
now remember and which you are unwilling to tell ? — A. I cannot recall 
any one. I cannot answer that question any better than I have done, 
in the way I have stated. 

The Chairman. The only answer you made to my question was to 
say that you would rather not answer it. I w T ould like to have you 
answer that question. 

The Witness. It is my impression that in. one instance I did. That 
is my impression. 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 57 

Q. What amount did you contribute ? — A. I contributed, I think.. 
$5,000 in one instance. 

Q. To whom was that contribution made ? — A. I am not so sure that I 
did it. I don't want to injure another man by making a mistake in this 
matter, though I don't think it ought to be any injury. 

Mr. Shellabarger. He will, of course, have the benefit of the de- 
gree of certainty or uncertainty with which you state it. 

The Witness. Weil, it is my impression that I contributed $5,000 to 
Senator Thayer to enable him to procure his re-election, or, rather, to 
use for general campaign party purposes ,• it was in the campaign of 
1870 or 1871. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. In what way did yon furnish him that money ? Did vou hand him 
the money, or a check, or a draft"? — A. I did not give him the money; I 
gave him a check, or a draft, or something of that kind. 

Q. If you gave him a check, on what bank was it? — A. My impres- 
sion is that I authorized him to draw on me. 

Q. Did he draw on you ? — A. I think he did. 
, Q. Can you tell us through what bank he made that draft on you ? — 
A. No, I cannot. 

Q. Have you the draft that was drawn upon you?— A. No, sir. 

Q. Where is it ? What has been done with it! — A. If I paid it, that 
is the end of it. I don't suppose I kept it. 

Q. Are you in the habit of destroying drafts upon you that you pay? 
— A. It is the custom with me to tear up a note in the bank always, and 
a draft the same way. 

Q. Have you a book-keeper 1 — A. Yes. 

Q. Does he keep a set of books ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. If you paid a draft for $5,000 drawn on you by Senator Thayer, 
would not your books show anything of it? — A. It is only since March 
last that I have kept a special book-keeper. My business prior to that 
I attended to myself, being in New York largely. I kept my accounts, 
gave my notes, and kept a memorandum in a little book, and when they 
matured I paid them and tore them up. 

Q. When was it that you gave Senator Thayer this authority to draw 
on you ? — A. I think it was during the campaign, prior to the election. 
I think it was in 1870 ; it was the State election that was pending. 

Q. Was he a candidate for Senator ? — A. I believe he was. It was 
understood that he was. 

Q. Was it understood between you and Senator Thayer that you were 
contributing that for the purpose of enabling him to get himself elected 
as Senator of the United States ?— A. Not especially. He was a candi- 
date and he was a friend of mine, and I did it just as I always contrib- 
ute to our campaigns in Connecticut. 

Q. Did that contribution, then, have any reference to Mr. Thayer's 
election as Senator ? — A. Well, I think I wanted him re-elected. 

Q. Was it not for that purpose that you made that contribution ? — 
A. Well, yes 5. you might say that that "had some weight with me — the 
wish for our party to carry the State, and, in consequence of that, to 
enable him to succeed in the election. 

By Mr. HOAR : 
Q. Are you sure that the contribution was not made after the popu- 
lar election in the State and before the election of a Senator by the 
legislature ? — A. It was before the popular election in the State.. 



58 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Do you think you would have made the same contribution for an 
election in that distant State if Mr. Thayer had not been a candidate 
for re-election ? — A. Well, I hardly think I would. 

Q. That State is on the line of your railroad % — A. Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Did you ever make any contribution to aid any other person who 
was a candidate for the Senate % — A. No ; I never did. 

Q. Or to any person who was a candidate for the House of Eepre- 
sentatives? — A. No. 

Q. This is the only contribution, then, that you have ever made in 
that direction 1 — A. This is the only one that I can remember. I don't 
remember to have made any other special contribution like that, bub I 
always have contributed to the regular campaign. 

Q. Have you ever, before or since, contributed that much money at 
any one time in a political campaign 1 — A. I don't think I ever have 
contributed so much as that. They generally get out of me from $1,000 
to $2,500 a year,* I have always considered that just the same as my 
State tax. Every man must do something to help. 

Q. To save the country % — A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Slqcum : 

Q. Your position is such that you would know if there had been any 
application made on the part of any candidate for help f — A. I think I 
would. 

Q. Did you ever hear discussed the importance of beating General 
Washburn in Wisconsin % — A. No. 

Q. Did any member of Congress advise you that he was an enemy of 
the road, and that it was necessary to contribute to his defeat? — A. No, 
sir; I don't think it would have come to me, for I liked Mr. Washburn 
always ; he was open and frank. 

By Mr. Shellabaroer : 
Q. The chairman asked you if you ever knew of any money being 
paid or offered for the purpose of influencing members of Congress • now, 
did you ever know the Union Pacific Bailroad Company or any of its 
officers, or the Credit Mobilier or any of its officers or stockholders, or any 
of those seven trustees that were interposed under that assignment, to 
give, either directly or indirectly, to any member of Congress, or to any 
other person for the purpose of being given to any member of Congress, 
any money, stock, or other thing of value? — A,. Not a dollar, nor a 
share, nor a bond, nor a single thing- and I am very confident that I 
would have known if there had been even a single dollar contributed 
in that way. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you know anything in relation to any distribution of the stock 
of the Credit Mobilier among members of Congress by Mr. Oakes Ames 
or any other person % — A. I do not. I know that I signed a paper, or 
vote, authorizing Mr. Oakes Ames to deliver some three hundred 
and odd or two hundred and odd shares of Credit Mobilier stock which 
he said he had disposed of in the spring of 1867, when I was disposing 
of that two or three hundred thousand dollars! worth that I have testi- 
fied of. 

Q. Did he tell you at that time to whom he had disposed of that 
stock % — A. He stated that he had sold it — part of it at least — to differ- 
ent gentlemen, members of Congress, and that they held him to his 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 59 

agreement, which was made when I was selling it at 95 and 97. He 
said they held him to his agreement, and that as a matter of honor 
and right he thought he ought to be authorized to fulfill his agreement 
with them, and I thought so too, so I signed a paper, after carefully 
reading and considering it, authorizing him to fulfill his agreement. 

Q. Where is that paper? — A. In the records of the Credit Mobilier, 
I think ; I have not seen it since, or a copy of it. 

Q. Did he give the names of the members of Congress to whom he 
had made that disposition of the stock? — A. It is possible, but I don't 
remember one single one of them. 

By Mr. SWANN : 

Q. Why did he confine the distribution to members of Congress ? — A. 
He was in Washington at that time, (the spring of 1867,) a member of 
Congress himself, and his department of placing the stock was more 
naturally with his friends here, while I placed it in New York and New 
Haven. Congress adjourned, I think, in March — early in the spring of 
1867 at all events — and it was not until the fall, or late in the year, that 
the parties, as I understood, came to him and held him to his promise. In 
the mean time, owing to the sale of those $10,000,000 in bonds that I spoke 
of, and our getting over the Black Hills, the stock had gone up to 160 
and above ; but because it had gone up I didn't feel that it was right 
for us to refuse to authorize Mr. Ames to carry out his contract of sate; 
I thought the parties were justly entitled to the stock, as much as those 
were who had bought of me. 

Q. Did you ever hear Mr. Ames say that he wanted to place the stock 
where it would do most good ? — A. No, sir ; I heard him say that he 
thought it would be bad policy, and perhaps injurious to us, to break 
his agreement with those gentlemen here, members of Congress and 
others, and I concurred with him fully ; and I only wonder that gentle- 
men who had agreed to take it when it was 97 hadn't the moral cour- 
age to take it when it was worth two or three hundred per cent., and 
own it, and be proud of it, as Mr. Ames seemed to be. I came to Mr. 
Ames when he was a member of Congress, and got him to take two or 
three thousand of Credit Mobilier, and he has never been ashamed of it 
himself, and why any other gentleman should be ashamed of taking 
hold and helping the Credit Mobilier through is beyond my comprehen- 
sion. 

By Mr. HOAR : 

Q. When you disposed of the stock at 95, as you say Mr. Ames did 
in those cases, did you accompany it with a guarantee that the purchasers 
should receive 10 per cent, on their money, or else should receive it 
back? — A. No, sir; my guarantees were against loss, principal and inter- 
est. They were written guarantees, and gentlemen in New Haven are 
ready to send some of them down here as evidence, if required. 

Q. You sold the stock at 95 and accompanied it with your personal 
guarantee ?— A. No, sir ; I got it at 95, and I sold at 97£ and par. That 
was my brokerage and an inducement, but the great inducement to me 
was to get money into the Credit Mobilier treasury. 

By Mr. SWANN : 
Q. He (Mr. Durant) let you have it for the purpose of being dis- 
tributed among those members of Congress? — A. No, sir; Mr. Durant 
let me have that stock in order to raise money for the treasury of the 
Credit Mobilier, to furnish money to go on with the work. His great 
object was that nothing should interfere with the road, and he took all 



60 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

the stock that it was convenient for him to take, and let me have a por- 
tion of his stock, and through other parties I placed two hundred and 
fifty or three hundred thousand of the stock. There was no anxiety at 
that time to get the stock. The prospect did not look very bright, and 
I placed it by giving my personal guarantee in writing that they should 
not lose. 

Q. I understood you to say that you authorized Mr. Ames to carry 
out contracts for the sale of stock which had been made when it was 
95 ? — A. Yes, sir ; when I got it of Dr. Durant at 95. 

Q.. Were you informed that those contracts which were made by Mr. 
Ames, those sales of stock to members of Congress, were accompanied 
by a guarantee that the persons receiving the stock should realize at 
least 10 per cent, on it ? — A. I don't think a word of that was said. I 
never heard of it until I heard of it in the testimony. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. You say that the sales were made by you and Mr. Ames for the 
purpose of realizing cash to carry on the business of the road? — A. Yes, 
sir ; that was the object. 

Q. Were the sales which Mr. Ames reported to you as made by him 
to members of Congress made for cash, or were they made on credit % — 
A. So far as I know anything about that, it is only from the report of 
Mr. Ames. This was in the winter of 1867, and he represented that he 
had sold the stock the spring previous. 

Q. Had he paid into the treasury, in the previous spring, the money 
for that stock % — A. He had paid for a large amount of stock. 

Q. Had he for this stock that he said he had sold to members of Con- 
gress! — A. No ; I don't think he had. » 

Q. Then do' you wish to modify your previous answer, that the sales 
were made for the purpose of realizing cash for the company to go on 
with the road % — A. My sales were ; I did not speak of Mr. Ames's sales. 

Q. I understood you to say that the object of making sales of that 
stock at that time was to realize cash to go on with the work, and that 
you made your sales among your friends, and that Mr. Ames would 
naturally make his among his friends here. — A. Yes, sir ; my sales were 
made solely to realize cash ; I got cash in every instance. 

Q. But you did not understand that Mr. Ames's sales were made to 
realize cash % — A. J did not understand anything about his sales, except 
that he said he had made them. 

Q. So far as you know, there was no cash paid into the treasury for 
those sales % — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. ShellABARGER : 

Q. Was there any reason given why cash was not paid into the 
treasury for the sales of stock made ? — A. I did not understand that the 
sales were concluded. He had only promised the stock to those parties 
at the last end of the session, and then he took this stock in fulfillment 
of his promise. 

-Q. If it was simply a promise, and there was no bargain and sale, then 
why was there any obligation to let the stock go at the rate at which it 
was at the time the promise was made, when it was now so much 
higher 1 — A. 1 won't say that there was no sale. He had offered the 
stock, and the parties had agreed to take it, but before he had got the 
certificates and delivered them, Congress rose, and these parties went 
home, and he did not meet them again until Congress came together the 
next winter. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 61 

Q. Do you wish, to be understood as saying that the reason why the 
sales were not consummated was simply because the adjournment of 
Congress came so soon that there was not time to consummate them ? — 
A. That was simply my impression. 

Q. Were there sales made to anybody else than members of Congress 
on such terms as to be binding sales, and yet without the payment of 
money ; and, if so, who was that somebody else ? — A. There has no such, 
sale been concluded that I know of, and the transfer made. 

Q. No inquiries were made by your company how it happened that 
the sales made by Mr. Ames never had brought any cash into the 
treasury % — A. No ; but he had disposed of a great deal of that stock for 
cash, and had brought a great deal of cash into the treasury. 

Q. I am not asking about those sales, but about the sales to members 
of Congress. — A. No ; nothing occurred to me about it then. 

Q. But you did consider that, although, there was no binding sale 
made in those cases, it was your honorary and legal obligation to let 
that stock go at par, it being then worth nearly double as much. % — 
A. Yes ; I have always lived up to my contracts, make or lose. 

Q. What perplexes me is to understand how there was any contract 
there, when you say there was only a promise, but no sale. — A. Well, if 
he had offered them the stock and they had agreed to take it; but he 
could not get the stock before they had gone. 

Q. That would be a sale. — A. Well, that is as I understand it — a sale. 

Q. But a sale on credit ? — A. Yes ; - for a short time. 

By Mr. SwANN : 

Q. Suppose Mr. Ames had failed in the mean time, what would have 
been the effect? — A. I think they could have held him for the profits. 

Q. Suppose the parties had been in the same situation, unable to 
make payment for the stock which they had received, it would have 
been a loss to the company, would it not % — A. No ; the company would 
not have lost the stock ; they would not deliver it until they got the 
money. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. You say that the reason the stock was not delivered and paid for 
at the time was, that there was not sufficient time to get the requisite 
certificates and consummate the transactions before Congress adjourned % 
— A. That was my impression, but I may have been mistaken. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. The stock which you sold, was that entered on the books of the 
company in the name of the purchaser when you sold it f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. As soon as you had made your sale for cash, you entered the trans- 
action on the books of the company % — A. Yes ; you will find the names. 

Q. Were the sales to any of those members of Congress so entered 
on the books of the company % — A. No ; I didn't sell to any members of 
Congress. 

Q. But you are familiar with the books, and I wish to know if any of 
those sales ever appeared on the books of the company? — A. No; not 
that I know of. I never heard of it. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. Not even after you delivered the stock to Mr. Ames to carry out 
your obligations % — A. No, sir. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. You sold some Credit Mobilier stock yourself ? — A. Yes, sir. 



62 CEEDIT MOBILIEK AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. When that stock was issued there was a $1,000 bond accompany- 
ing so many shares, was there not 1— A. JSo. 

Q. Was there not a bond issued ? — A. The bond went to the original 
holder of the stock • it was really a 50 per cent, dividend in bonds. 

Q. The bond, then, did not accompany the stock that you placed 1 ?: — 
A. No, sir j those bonds that were earned at all were earned before that. 



Washington, D. C, January 15, 1873. 

Thomas 0. Dtjrant sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer. I reside in New York. 

Q. Have you had any connection with the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, and if so, at what time and for how long a period % — A. I was a 
director and vice-president of the company from the time of its organi- 
zation until the last rail was laid. The first election of directors was in 
October, 1863, and the last rail was laid, I think, in May or June, 1867. 

Q. When were the surveys for the road made % — A. The surveys were 
commenced in the fall of 1863, before the company was organized. 

Q. When was the last survey made? — A. We had a corps of engi- 
neers at work all the time until 1869. 

Q. When was the location of the road upon the line where it was 
constructed finally determined upon % — A. The location of the road was 
determined in sections, and the surveys were made of the final location, 
with the approval of either the President or of the Interior Depart- 
ment, I don't recollect which. The sections were filed and accepted at 
different dates. 

Q. Have you any books, papers, or reports which will show when the 
various locations were determined upon % — A. I think we can obtain 
those here in Washington from either the Treasury or the Interior De- 
partment, where they are filed. If it is your intention to make a full 
investigation of the organization of the company, I had better com- 
mence at the beginning, and take each contract by itself, and get the lo- 
cation of the road and the surveys and cost under each contract. The 
road was located in parts, and I think they were 300 miles ahead of the 
last location in the construction ; that is, the maps were filed, but the 
Department had not acted upon them. 

Q. When was the last location determined upon, so far as the rail- 
road company was concerned % — A. The last general location at the last 
end of the road was determined upon in 1868. 

Q. You had to file a map? — A. Yes; a map and profile. They were 
filed in sections, and I am unable to state the dates without reference 
to the Department where they were filed. 

Q. Give me your best impression as to when the last one was made, 
so far as the company was concerned. — A. In 1867 or 1868. 

Q. If it was in either of those years, can you tell what time of the 
year it was ? — A. I cannot. Those maps were filed, I think, by General 
Dodge, who had an office here in Washington, and was chief engineer 
of the company. 

Q. Were there estimates made by the engineer of the cost of the work 
on those several parts of the road as they were located ? — A. There were 
estimates made by quantities. The engineers did not, except in two or 
three instances, estimate the cost, but they estimated so much earth- 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 6& 

cutting, so much embankment, so much earth-filling, so much rock, so 
many bridges, &c. They could not estimate the cost of iron or labor, 
except by the average cost of them at the time the estimates were 
made. 

Q. Have you those estimates with you, or copies of them? — A. I have 
not ; I think many of them have been published. 

Q. Where can they be had ? — A. I suppose in the office of the company. 
They were there the last that I had to do with the company. They be- 
long to the Union Pacific office. I have no copies of them except what 
may be found in pamphlets. 

Q. Have you any of those pamphlets ! — A. I have here some of the 
first preliminary surveys. 

Q. Were the estimates made by the engineers furnished either to the 
Interior or the Treasury Department $ — A. I cannot say what General 
Dodge did with them ; I suppose they were, though. 

Q. When was the first contract made for the construction of that 
road, with whom was it made, and in what way did the company begin 
the work ? — A. The company was organized under the act of 1862 or 
1863. I forget which was the year. It was organized by a subscription 
with the commissioners of $2,000,000 to the stock of the company, of 
which 10 per cent, was paid. I think the subscription amounted to 
about $2,180,000. The commissioners were William B. Ogden, Thomas 
W. Olcott, and Henry V. Poor; they were the officers of the commission. 
The books were opened at all the places designated by law, and kept 
open at the main office for a year. 

Q. What I want to know now is, when the first contract for the con- 
struction of this road was made. — A. Immediately after the organiza- 
tion of the company, they went to work and commenced to build the 
road themselves by putting men and laborers on. That continued 
through the fall and winter of 1863 and 1864. The company, I see by 
General Dix's report, had then incurred expenditures to the amount of 
about $600,000 or $800,000. After that they found they could not go 
on with the work — parties would not take the stock ; and they were 
obliged to sell some of the materials, cars, &c, which they had bought, 
and to hold up on the w T ork, although they still kept going on mode- 
rately. A committee was appomted in May — May 12, 1864, I think — 
with authority to receive proposals and let the work. 

Q. State, if you can, the amount of money the company expended in 
construction and equipment in the manner that you have spoken of.— 
A. They expended $218,000, and were in debt $200,000 or $300,000 be- 
sides, for iron, cars, locomotives, grading, ties, &c. 

Q. Then they had expended between four and five hundred thousand 
dollars 1 — A. They had run in debt for a portion of it, and had been 
obliged to sell some of their material to meet their indebtedness. 

Q. Then the company ceased the attempt to construct the road in that 
way ? — A. They appointed a committee. The first board of directors con- 
sisted of thirty, elected by the stockholders, and two chosen by the Gov- 
ernment. They appomted a committee of three to see if they could get 
proposals and let a contract, and they did let a contract to H. M. Hoxie.. 
I hand the committee a copy of that contract. It was for $50,000 a 
mile. Soon after, Mr. Hoxie found that he could not go on with the 
contract, and that parties would not take the risk of getting pay from 
the company, and he was obliged to throw it up. I persuaded him to 
hold on a while, and we would see if we could not find parties who would 
join him and furnish the money, and I made an agreement (which is 
marked in this Schedule B) for him to sell his contract to any party 



64 CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

who would furnish the money. I hand you also a copy of that agree- 
ment, and in connection with that I hand you the agreement and nearly 
all the subscription-list of the parties who proposed to take the contract 
off his hands — proposing to raise $1,600,000 in cash, and to carry on 
the contract. Under that arrangement the parties who subscribed to 
that paper paid in the first installment of 25 per cent. 

Q. How much was paid by the company to Hoxie for work that he 
did under his contract ; how much work was done under that contract 
before the transfer was made ? — A. I can answer that better after the 
next document. We have a document here by which we can get at what 
was done on the line up to that time, exclusive of equipment. 

Q. After the transfer of the Hoxie contract was made to the persons 
named in that agreement, what was done next in the way of a contract 
for the construction of the road % — A. The parties named here paid in 
their 25 per cent. They kept the work progressing, but when the time 
came to make the second payment, the parties did not respond. They 
were in doubt whether they would ever get their money back, and they 
thought they had better stop where they were ; and finally, after a good 
deal of talk, they said that if they had no risk beyond the amount of 
money they put in, they would go on, but they declined to go on in a 
general partnership, with each liable to the amount of his property, and 
with success doubtful. They looked about, therefore, to find some means 
of meeting the difficulty, and it was decided to take the charter of the 
Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency, as it was called, and on the 15th day of 
March we agreed to that. I may as well state here that between the 
time that Hoxie made an agreement to assign this contract, and the 
time that these parties gave notice that they would take it, the work 
was still going on, and Mr. Hoxie was obliged to assign whatever in- 
terest he had in it subject to that agreement, in order to get money to 
pay his men. On the 15th of March, 1865, an agreement was made with 
the Credit Mobilier to take the Hoxie contract. I hand the committee 
a copy of that agreement, (marked No. 4.) It was agreed for that com- 
pany to guarantee the performance of the Hoxie contract, to advance 
the money 3 and to take the work on the same terms that the contract 
provided. It was merely a transfer from a general copartnership to a 
corporation. Then Hoxie was instructed by those parties to make an 
assignment to John Duff, trustee, of the contract as collateral security 
to the Credit Mobilier. I hand you a copy of that contract, (marked 
No. 5.) On the opposite side of the sheet is a copy of the guarantee of 
the Credit Mobilier, (marked 6.) 

Q. Under the charter of the Credit Mobilier, and the amendments 
thereto, that corporation had the right to take charge of the work itself, 
and execute the contract ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. State whether the Credit Mobilier, after those contracts had been 
made which you have now given in evidence, did take charge of the 
contract and execute the work under it. — A. Yes, it did. 

Q. Now state whether or not the work that was contemplated to be 
done by the Hoxie contract was completed by the Credit Mobilier. — A. 
It was completed by the Credit Mobilier under that contract. 

Q. And what amount of money was paid by the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company to Hoxie, the Credit Mobilier, or anybody else, on account 
of that construction 1— A. In the settlement, instead of the Union 
Pacific Company making a settlement and closing up with Hoxie, the 
Credit Mobilier made the settlement, and the Union Pacific Company 
settled with it for the whole work. 

Q. What amount did the Union Pacific Railroad Company pay to the 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 65 

Credit Mobilier on account of that contract — the entire contract ? — 
A. The contract was for $50,000 a mile for two hundred and forty- seven 
miles, extending to the one hundredth meridian. 

Q. Was there anything paid by the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
in excess of the amount you have just named, $50,000 per mile for two 
hundred and forty-seven miles? — A. I think there was. When the 
Hoxie contract was made the line was located from Omaha west, and 
there was some very heavy work on the line as located ; it was impossi- 
ble to get the grade as low as they wanted. Thirty miles out they had 
a grade of 10 feet to the mile for three or four hundred miles. Here 
there was an ascending grade of 80 feet or upward, and a descending 
grade of about the same, striking the Elk Horn Valley ; and the Gov- 
ernment inspector, General Simpson, and the consulting engineer of the 
company, went out and made a survey, and recommended a change of 
line, on the ground that it would be much cheaper to make the road 
twelve miles longer and keep the grade down. I think that, according 
to the terms of the contract, there had been from $150,000 to $200,000 
spent on that heavy work, and the company allowed for a portion of 
what was done, but they allowed only the cost of it — no profit. 

Q. W T hen was the work under that Hoxie contract completed ? — A ; . 
In the fall of 1866, on the 5th of October, 1866. The whole length was 
247 T Vo miles. 

Q. How long after that did the Credit Mobilier make a dividend among 
its stockholders, and what was the amount of that dividend, and in 
what was it made? — A. I think I understand what you'want to get at, 
and if you will take that when we come to take up the Credit Mobilier, 
we can give you each dividend received. 

Q. Who were the officers of the Credit Mobilier at the time that cor- 
poration obtained control of the Hoxie contract? — A. I think they had 
their original directors in at that time, although it appears to me that 
a portion of the original directors had resigned and others had been 
chosen in their places. I must look through this book to find the 
directors on that day. They were Oliver W. Barnes, Charles M. Hall, 
E. Eeed Meyer, G. F. Train, Thomas C. Durant, and D. E. Porter, I 
think; but I am not positive as to him. 

Q. Can you state the names of the members of that board ? — A. I was 
president, and Mr. Hall was treasurer. 

Q. Hid you have any other officers ? — A. I find by the minutes of the 
15th that a copy of the subscription paper was presented, and the 
board of managers was appointed, I think, the railway bureau in New 
York. 

Q. Who were that board of managers ? — A. Thomas C. Durant, C. A. 
Lombard, C. S. Bushnell, John Huff, and J. W. Barnes. Those 
managers were appointed in accordance with the terms of the subscrip- 
tion paper on which the stock was paid. 

Q. Were any of those directors at that time officers or directors of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. I was vice-president of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company, Mr. Bushnell was a director, and I think Mr. 
Lombard was a director. . 

Q. Were they all stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany % — A. Yes. 

Q. And stockholders of the Credit Mobilier? — A. We hadn't sub- 
scribed for our stock of the Credit Mobilier. W^e took this contract of 
Hoxie's after he could not go on. with it. 

Q. Well, you were connected with the Credit Mobilier ? — A. Yes ; I 
think I had $500 in it about that time. 
5 c M 



66 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. How many of that board of directors were directors of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company? — A. Myself and Bashnell were the only 
ones who were officers of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 

Q. What was the amount of the paid-up stock of the Credit Mobilier 
at that time ? — A. There was no stock full paid, but on the subscription 
under which they organized there had been a percentage paid. 

Q. In what did the Union Pacific Eailroad Company pay the amounts 
paid on the Hoxie contract? — A. Cash. 

Q. From what sources was that cash derived ? — A. From stock sub- 
scriptions and the sale of their bonds. 

Q, Did the Credit Mobilier purchase those bonds from the Union Pa- 
cific Eailroad Company ? — A. They never purchased any until after they 
had finished the two thousand four hundred and forty-seven miles of 
road. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Has it yet appeared what amount of cash subscriptions there was ?— 
A. The Credit Mobilier furnished a large amount of money by subscrib- 
ing to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company's stock, and paying the cash 
for it. 

Q. Can you tell how much money had been paid in on stock subscrip- 
tions to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company at that time that the 
Credit Mobilier finished that contract ? — A. I think between five or six 
millions — five millions, I guess. 

<Q. When was the next contract for construction after the Hoxie con- 
tract made, and with whom was it made ?— A. After the Hoxie contract, 
after the road had been built to the one hundredth meridian, and about 
the time it was completed to that point, there were quite a number of 
stockholders of the Credit Mobilier who had become large stockholders 
in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ; among them Mr. Ames, Mr. 
Dillon, Mr. Duff, and others. They had become large holders of Union 
Pacific Eailroad stock, which they had purchased through their interest 
in the Credit Mobilier, and they desired to be represented in the Union 
Pacific board, and Mr. Oliver Ames and two or three others went into 
the direction of the Union Pacific Eailroad. In January, 1865, there 
were three hundred and five miles of road completed. 

Q. I ask you when the next contract after the Hoxie contract was 
made, and with whom % — A. I made a contract which was known as the 
Boomer contract, (a copy of which I will give you ;) but that contract 
never met the formal approval of the board, although they paid $1,700,000 
on it. Under that Boomer contract we had completed, in the fall of 
18G6, fifty-eight miles of road more, inaking, with the two hundred and 
forty-seven miles, three hundred and five miles; and in January the 
board passed a resolution to consider the Hoxie contract extended so as 
to cover this fifty-eight miles additional, and instructed the treasurer to 
pay the Credit Mobilier for it at the rate of $50,000 per mile. 

Q. What was the price per mile under the Boomer contract? — A. 
Part of it, exclusive of equipments, was to be $19,500 per mile, exclu- 
sive of a bridge that we had not got an estimate on, and the balance 
$20,000 per mile. I hand you a copy of that contract, (marked 7.) 

Q. This contract seems to have been entered into on the 10th of No- 
vember, ISiM; was there any work done under it ?— A. Yes; I don't 
recollect the amount, but,. I think, there must have been seventy, eighty, 
or ninety miles, perhaps one hundred. 

Q. And you say that after this contract had been made, and after that 
amount of work had been done under it, the board passed a resolution 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 67 

extending the Hoxie contract to the one hundredth meridian ? — A. That 
resolution of the board was on the 5th of January, 1866. The resolu- 
tion was to consider the Hoxie contract extended to embrace the fifty- 
eight miles of road already completed under the Boomer contract. 

Q. After that work had been performed under the Boomer contract ? — 
A. Well, the board did not recognize that contract, but the road was 
built under it. 

Q. And after the road had been built for that distance under that 
Boomer contract, the Hoxie contract was extended over it % — A. Yes. 

Q. Was it paid for under the Hoxie contract? — A. No, it was not. I 
entered a protest, and got out an injunction and prevented it. 

Adjourned to January 16. 



Washington, D. C, January 16, 1873. 
The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m., ail the members present. 
Examination of Thomas C. Durant continued. 

The Witness. I find a resolution in the books that the engineer's 
reports were called for and ordered to be printed. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. What reports do you refer to? — A. Engineer's estimates, with the 
quantities. 

Q. Have they been printed? — A. I presume they have been- the board 
had them before it. 

Q. But you have no copy of them here % — A. No, sir. 

Q. When the committee adjourned last night you were speaking, I 
believe, in regard to a resolution of the board to extend the Hoxie con- 
tract over the road which had been constructed under the Boomer con- 
tract?— -A. The Boomer contract was never formally approved by the 
board. 

Q. Have you that resolution of the board ? — A. Yes, sir ; I have a 
copy of the resolution here. It was passed on the 5th of January, 1867. 

Q. Please read that resolution. — A. "Resolved, That the Union Pacific 
Bailroad Company will and do hereby consider the Hoxie contract ex- 
tended to the point already completed, namely, 305 miles from Omaha, 
and that the officers of this company are hereby authorized to settle 
with the Credit Mobilier at $50,000 a mile for the additional fifty-eight 
miles. 

"The yeas and nays being had on agreeing to the resolution, it was 
adopted by the following vote : 

"Yeas: Messrs. Bushnell, Tuttle, McComb. Lamport, Ames, Huffy, 
Dillon, and Carter. 

"Kays: Messrs. Harbaugh, Ashmun, Sherman, and Williams." 

Q. Which of those men were Government directors ! — A. Carter, a 
Government director, voted in the affirmative. 

Q. Which of those voting in the negative were Government directors? — 
A. All of them. 

Q. What had been the cost of the construction of the road over which 
the Hoxie contract was to be extended f — A. About $20,000 a mile, ex- 
clusive of equipment. I see the resolution of the board calls for equip- 
ment to the amount of $7,500 a mile. 

Q. Then the cost of construction of this piece of road was $27,500 per 
mile ? — A. About that. 



68 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. For which $50,000 per inilewas to be paid by virtue of this res- 
olution ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Was that resolution ever carried into effect ? — A. It was not ; it 
was rescinded. 

Q. Why was it not carried into effect % — A. I entered a protest, and 
called the attention of the board to it. I also applied for an injunction, 
and obtained it, and the board rescinded the resolution. 

Q. Where did you apply for the injunction? — A. In Judge Barnard's 
court, I think. 

Q. Was the injunction granted u ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Was it after that injunction was granted that the board rescinded 
the resolution % — A. The resolution was passed in my absence, and I 
made this protest, and served the directors with the injunction. The 
following is my protest against the resolution : 

" To the board of directors Union Pacific Railroad Company : 

" Gentlemen : I protest against the passage of the resolution ap- 
pearing on your minutes as passed January 15, 1867, purporting to treat 
and consider the Hoxie contract as extended to the point already com- 
pleted, namely, 305 miles west of Omaha, and authorizing the officers 
of the company to settle with the Credit Mobilier at $50,000 per mile for 
the additional fifty-eight miles. Said resolution was moved and adopted 
while I was absent from the meeting of the board on necessary business 
of the company. I make this protest on the ground that said fifty-eight 
miles has been constructed at much less cost than $50,000 a mile, and 
has been accepted by the United States Government as complete ; and 
that it was not constructed under the Hoxie contract; and that a con- 
siderable portion of the cost thereof had been paid by the company be- 
fore the adoption of said resolution, and that said resolution does not 
provide any compensation or advantage to the company by requiring 
stock subscription or stipulations for the construction of additional por- 
tions of the company's road, or by any other means or stipulations what- 
soever, which leaves the company to sustain a very great and unrequited 
loss. 

" Eespeetfully, yours, 

"THOMAS 0. DUBANT." 

Q. If that resolution had been carried into effect, would the money 
paid on account thereof have gone to the Credit Mobilier ? — A. The 
profits would have gone to the Credit Mobilier. The relative, positions 
of the two corporations had changed at that time. Several gentlemen 
who had been stockholders through their connection with the Hoxie 
contract and the Credit Mobilier had become directors of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company, so that this would have been simply letting 
the contract to ourselves, to the exclusion of the minor stockholders in 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company who had no interest in the Credit 
Mobilier. 

Q. The proceeds that would have been derived from carrying into 
effect this resolution would have been simply given to the stockholders 
of the Credit Mobilier? — A. Certainly. 

Q. W T hat was the next thing done in connection with the construction 
of this road % Was there any further action taken by the board of 
directors with reference to this fifty-eight miles f— A. Immediately fol- 
lowing this protest, at a meeting of the board on the 24th of January, 
Mr. Bushnell offered the following resolution : 

"Resolved, That the resolution adopted January 5th, extending the 
Hoxie contract to the three hundred and fifth mile, be rescinded." 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 69 

I do not know that my protest is on the books of the company, for 
the board subsequently passed a resolution expunging my protest, and 
ordered to be written'across it, in red ink, " Expunged by order of the 
board." 

Q. What was the next thing done in furtherance of the construction 
of this road ? — A. There were committees appointed to get estimates of 
the heavy work, &c. 

Q. State who was the engineer of the company at the time the work 
was done under the Boomer contract. — A. That Boomer contract was 
known on the books of the company as the Gessner contract. Mr. 
Gessner was appointed as agent by Boomer, and Boomer afterward 
sold it to him. 

Q. Who was the chief engineer at the time that that fifty-eight miles 
was constructed % — A. I think that at that time each division had its 
engineer in charge. I am not positive whether it was Mr. Evans who 
was engineer of that division. We had some ten or fifteen engineers on 
the different divisions. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. Were the reports of those resident engineers on the different sec- 
tions indorsed by the chief engineer before being submitted to the com- 
pany % — A. They were not at first, because, instead of a chief engineer 
we kept a consulting engineer, and the work extended over so large 
sections of country that we had the reports made direct to the office. 
Subsequently the chief engineer became a member of Congress, and it 
took too long to get things round. The reports were generally submit- 
ted to him and he signed them. 

Q. Did he sanction them % — A. He sanctioned all the reports on which 
payments were made. I think that most of the reports were submitted 
to him. 

Q. And they came in as the reports of the chief engineer % — A. We 
made, at first, each man chief of his own division. We thought two 
hundred or two hundred and fifty miles was about as much as any engi- 
neer could attend to. 

Q. What I want to know is, whether the chief engineer was respon- 
sible for the reports % — A. Yes ; he was responsible to the company. 

Q. And no disbursements were made except under the order of the 
chief engineer ? — A. They were made k on his estimates. I suppose his 
subs made them up and had them sent. 

Q. You- are not able at present to give the name of the chief engi- 
neer 1 — xV. I am not positive whether General Dodge was then chief 
engineer or not. 

Q. W r as General Dodge then a member of Congress ! — A. Kb ; he was 
elected afterward. 

Q. How long afterward I — A. I do not recollect. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. In regard to this Hoxie contract, I find that it contains a provision 
that the Union Pacific Bailroad Company was to pay for work done 
under it at the rate of $50,000 for every mile completed. Explain in 
what way, if any, the company would have been wronged by the exten- 
sion of the Hoxie contract over this fifty-eight miles. — A. The Hoxie 
contract was made (with no one interested in it) as a bona-fide contract. 
The parties who became subsequently interested in the Hoxie contract 
and in the Credit Mobilier, became directors of the Union Pacific Kail- 
road Company ; and then, to extend that contract over a piece of road 



70 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

that was already completed, was simply letting the contract to them- 
selves. 

Q. Would that operation, extending the Hoxie contract over the road 
already completed, make the work cost the company anymore than it 
cost under the Boomer contract I — A. The actual cost of that fifty-eight 
miles was about $27,500 a mile, fully equipped. 

Q. Have you now the next contract that was made ! — A. Yes ; the 
next was the Williams contract. 

Q. By whom was it made % — A. By J. M. S. Williams. It was a prop- 
osition adopted by the board. I find the following entry in regard to it : 

" On motion, the proposition of Mr. Williams was adopted, with the 
following proviso : That $7,500 per mile be reserved out of the pay- 
ment." 

The proposition of Mr. Williams as follows : 

" New York, March 1, 1867. 
u To the directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company : 

" Gentlemen : I would submit the following proposition, to wit, to> 
build your road from the end of the one hundredth meridian of longitude 
to the base of the Rocky Mountains, at the Crow Greek Crossing, 267 T 5 5 7 o 
miles. For the first hundred miles, at the rate of $42,000 per mile ; for 
the balance, 167 t 5 q^ miles, at the rate of $45,000 per mile. All to be 
built and equipped to the satisfaction of the Government commissioners 
and your board, I agreeing to procure subscriptions for stock to the 
amount of one and -a half millions, or one million five hundred thousand 
dollars. Jhe Union Pacific Eailroad Company shall transport all mate- 
rials required for me on the road completed and used by the company, 
at rates to be agreed upon. Payments to be made on monthly estimates 
as the work progresses.. 

" Yours, respectfully, 

"JOHN M. S. WILLIAMS." 

Q. Was that accepted by the board 1 — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you the resolution accepting it % — A. Yes, sir ; here is the 
copy of it. 

"Resolved, That the President 'pro tempore be instructed to have a 
written contract made with J. M. S. ^Williams, in conformity with his 
written proposal, accepted by the board this day, and that the same be 
recorded in full on the minute-books of this company." 

Q. Was the contract entered into pursuant to that resolution % — A. It 
was not. 

Q. Why was it not? — A. We got another injunction. 

Q. Who got the injunction % — A. I did. 

Q. Where % — A. From Judge Wells, of New York. 

Q. Does that proposition of Mr. Williams, to which you have just re- 
ferred, cover road that had been already constructed under previous 
contracts f — A. I think that my protest explains that. I will read my 
protest of March 27 : 

" Union Pacific Railroad Office, 

"March .-27, 1867. 
" To the directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company : 

" Gentlemen : I protest against the resolution of the board of direct- 
ors, passed at your last meeting, which proposes to give the contract of 
the road of this company, commencing at the one hundredth meridian 
of longitude, for the reason that a. section of road, already accepted, is 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 71 

included in the contract, and it does not appear that this company de- 
rives any benefit adequate to the price paid over the cost of construc- 
tion, and does not in future require, as an essential point in the contract, 
the completion of the road within the shortest possible time, and for 
other reasons named in a previous protest in relation to the Hoxie con- 
tract. 

" I beg to call your attention again to the fact that part of this work 
has been done for weeks, and that contracts have been made, and mer- 
chandise delivered, for nearly one hundred and fifty miles of road which 
the company has paid for, as shown by the books. 
" Respectfully, 

"THOMAS H. DURANTE 

Q. State whether or not the facts stated in that protest were true. — 
A. They were ; and the facts stated in the former protest were also true. 
I will say, in regard to this, that there was a proposition to include in 
this proposition to take a certain amount of stock, which would in part 
do away with some of the objections in the first protest ; but as Mr. 
Williams at that time had made an assignment of his contract, in case 
he obtained it, to the Credit Mobilier, it was simply contracting with 
themselves again. 

Q. Have you a copy of that assignment made by Mr. Williams to the 
Credit Mobilier, or agreement, or whatever it may be? — A. I have a 
copy of the resolution adopted by the Credit Mobilier on the 27th of 
March, 1867, to the effect that the contract proposed to be made by J. 
M. S. Williams for building 257 miles of road is guaranteed by the com- 
pany, and that the company accept the assignment proposed by J. M. S. 
Williams. That last protest of mine met the same fate as the other one. 
It was expunged from the minutes. 

Q. What has become of those proceedings which you instituted for 
the purpose of enjoining the execution of this contract % — A. The case 
never has been withdrawn, and never has been acted on. 

Q. Is it still pending in court % — A. I do not know whether it is pend- 
ing or not. It Avas dropped. Judge Wells died, and by the terms of 
my complaint I think I agreed to withdraw the injunction, provided the 
board of directors would make no contract to which every stockholder 
of the Union Pacific Railroad Company would not give his written as- 
sent. 

Q. I want to know whether there was any work done or money paid in 
the Williams contract to which you have just referred ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. What was the next step taken by the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany toward contracting for the construction of the road ? — A. The next 
step that amounted to anything was the contract with Oakes Ames. 

Q. When was that contract entered into ? — A. The board passed a 
resolution on the 16th of August, 1867. 

By Mr. HoAR : 

Q. Was there any advertisement for biddings in the ordinary course 
of business ? — A. Notices were sent to all the large contractors. 

Q. Was there any advertisement for bids to the public at large % — A. 
I do not recollect. 

Q. Have you a copy of the Oakes Ames contract ! — A. Yes. I now 
produce a true copy of the Ames contract. (Exhibit No. 7.) 

Q. Have you the assignment of that contract, or a copy of it? — A. 
Yes. I produce a true copy of that assignment. (Exhibit No. 8.) 

Q. Were proxies given by the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier, who 
were stockholders in the Union Pacific Railroad Company, as contem- 



72 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

plated in the tripartite agreement or assignment of the Oakes Ames 
contract f — A. Proxies were given. There was a committee appointed 
to vote on all these proxies. 

Q. State as a fact, independent of the books, whether such proxies 
were given. — A. I think they were, to a certain extent. 

Q. Do you know to what extent ! — A. I do not. The minutes of the 
election of the board of directors will tell. I am positive there was 
such a paper, but I cannot find a copy of it. 

Q. Where should that paper be found 1 — A. It ought to be found with 
the papers of the trustees. At a meeting on January 22, 1868, Mr. Boomer 
offered a resolution that Oliver Ames be directed to vote the proxies 
held by that committee at the annual meeting of the stockholders of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company, to be held that day, in favor of hold- 
ing the next annual meeting at the office of the company in the city of 
New York. 

Q. From that entry, are you able to state that there was a separate 
paper ? — A. I think there was ; I am certain there was a paper giving 
the proxies. It was simply in accordance with the tripartite agree- 
ment. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. What percentage of the Union Pacific Railroad stock, as nearly 
as you can recollect, did the stockholders in the Credit Mobilier own at 
the time the Oakes Ames contract was entered into? — A. I should 
think 75 per cent. ; perhaps more. I do not know but it might be 85 
per cent. 

Q. Do you recollect how much stock had been issued by the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company at that time % — A. I think in the neighbor- 
hood of five millions ; perhaps a little above that. 

Q. What property or assets had the Credit Mobilier, aside from its 
capital stock and what it derived from its dealings with the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company % — A. Nothing ; it had no other assets, except 
that they had purchased about a thousand acres of land near Council 
Bluffs, Iowa. 

Q. Was that land purchased out of the capital stock, or out of the 
proceeds of dealings with the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. It 
was purchased out of the capital stock. 

Q. Why was a board of trustees resorted to in connection with the 
Oakes Ames contract ? — A. Because in the way the contract was finally 
adopted by the executive committee, on October 1, it was provided that 
they should have the written assent of all the stockholders of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company. This board of trustees was simply 
to carry on the contract. Mr. Ames assigned it to the trustees 5 the 
company gave him a release, and the trustees carried it on virtually for 
the benefit of all the stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany. 

Q. But tlie trustees were trustees of the shareholders of the Credit 
Mobilier stock, who also held shares iu the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, and who would give this irrevocable proxy for six-tenths of their 
stock, were they not"? — A. They were. There were several reasons 
wby it was done in this way. One was, that the Union Pacific Rail- 
road stock was increasing all the time, and it was difficult to keep 
track of it. Another was, that the Credit Mobilier was the guarantor 
of the contract. Their stockholders owned a large majority of the stock 
of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and it was for the purpose of 
keeping track of the thing that this plan was resorted to. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 73 

Q. Why could not the Credit Mobilier do that as well as'to have those 
trustees do it? The Credit Mobilier had a board of directors and offi- 
cers, had it not ?— A. That did not secure all the stockholders in the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company. The reason that they did not consent 
to that was that they wanted to protect outside stockholders who had 
no interest in the Credit Mobilier. Their assent was required to the 
contract. It was out of the power of the Credit Mobilier and of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad to do anything without the assent of those 
stockholders. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. For whom did the trustees, under the Oakes Ames contract, hold 
the profits of the contract in trust J ? — A. For all the stockholders of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad. 

Question repeated. — A. They held them in trust for the parties who 
are specified in the assignment. I mean for the interest specified in the 
assignment. The names are not specified. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You mean the parties contemplated by the assignment? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Is it not a fact that no dividends were paid to any stockholder in 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company unless he was also a shareholder 
in the Credit Mobilier ? — A. Xo ; I think not. 

Q. Did these trustees, in making dividends, divide with shareholders 
in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company who were not shareholders in 
the Credit Mobilier ? — A. There were no such shareholders left out. 

Q. Were all the shareholders in the Union Pacific Eailroad also share- 
holders in the Credit Mobilier ? — A. I think that every shareholder in 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company received his dividend from these 
trustees. 

Q. Do I understand you to say that all persons holding shares of 
stock in the Union Pacific Eailroad were also holders of stock in the 
Credit Mobilier ? — A. I think they were at that time, because those who 
did not assent sold out their stock to the Credit Mobilier. 

By Mr. Shell abarger : 

Q. Do you mean to the Credit Mobilier, or to stockholders in the Credit 
Mobilier ! — A. To'the trustees of the stockholders. 

Q. The stipulation is that no dividends or profits from the Ames con- 
tract shall be paid to any one who did not execute an irrevocable proxy. 
]Sow, were the dividends from these profits confined to the persons who 
did execute such a proxy, or were others allowed to participate in the 
profits who did not execute a proxy? — A. All who held stock out- 
side were allowed to come in, but whether they all signed or not I do 
not know. 

Q. Although they had not given any proxy, still they received shares 
of profits? — A. Yes. 

Q. Was any person permitted to share in the profits under the Oakes 
Ames contract who did not give a proxy, whereby six-tenths of their 
stock in the Union Pacific Eailroad- Company should be voted by the 
trustees?— A. I do not think they all signed it. 

Q. That does not answer the question. It is whether any one was 
permitted to share in the profits of the Oakes Ames contract who did 
not give that proxy ? — A. I think that dividends were paid to some who 
had not executed proxies. 

Q. Who were they ? — A. I think Mr. Hazard did not execute a proxy. 



74 CREDIT MOBILJER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Do you mean, by your last answer, to say that the seven trustees 
violated the stipulations of the tripartite agreement, and paid profits to 
men who never executed a proxy for six- tenths for their stock in the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. I think they paid dividends to 
those who never executed proxies. The receipt for the dividends made 
them agree to the arrangement. 

Q. Take that dividend list, and point out on it the men who received 
shares of profits under the Oakes Ames contract, who did not execute 
the proxies. — A. They all signed that paper, but that is not the proxy. 

Q. My meaning is that you shall point out in that list the persons 
signing the receipt itself, but who never gave a proxy whereby their 
six-tenths of Union Pacific Eailroad stock should be voted. — A. I cannot 
do that. I never paid much attention to it. I did not regard it as of 
much importance. All the stockholders signed that. The object of 
that was to keep harmony in the board, and not to have the election 
of directors contested at the next election. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Does this document show the names of all the stockholders in the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company, at the times these dividends were 
paid ! — A. It includes all who were stockholders in the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company at the time the Ames contract was made, and this 
first dividend paid, with the exception of a few shares that were owned 
by the Credit Mobilier, and which may have been in the names of other 
parties, not having been transferred ; and with the exception of three 
or four stockholders to the amount of three or four hundred dollars, 
who did not come in. ■> 

Q. Then that shows substantially the stockholders of tbe Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company at the time the dividends were paid f — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. And it also shows all the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier ? — 
A. It does. 

Q. And the amount which they respectively held? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. As this was for all the stockholders, what was the necessity of 
interposing this board of trustees ? 

The Witness. "Who would carry on the contract I 

The Chairman. Why would not the Credit Mobilier carry it on ? 

The Witness. At the time the contract was made, the Credit Mobilier 
did not own the stock ; besides, the Credit Mobilier had no funds. 

Q. At the time the contract was made it was contemplated that the 
Credit Mobilier or the stockholders in the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany should hold all the stock 1 — A. I do not know that. 

Q. It was the purpose of this stipulation, with the Oakes Ames 
assignment, either to cut out the Union Pacific Eailroad shareholders, 
or compel them to come into the Credit Mobilier? — A. O, no; it left 
the option with them. For instance, a man might come in and say that 
he had five shares of Union Pacific Eailroad stock and would not come 
into this Credit Mobilier, and would object to going on with the con- 
tract. 

Q. But suppose such persons did not go in, where was the necessity 
for their going in if they were to get their share in the profits whether 
they went in or not ! — A. It was very difficult to go on with the work as 
rapidly as we wanted to go. The Credit Mobilier had exhausted their 
money and assets. The guarantee was all well enough. The Union Pa- 
cific Eailroad Company could not object to taking the guarantee, as that 
company owed the Credit Mobilier some two millions of dollars, and 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 75 

still does, I believe. We wanted more credit than we could get from 
that corporation. The thing looked very well. By adopting this course 
we made every man that came in liable individually for his whole for- 
tune to carry out that contract. The trustees felt that they had some- 
thing to back them — fifty millions instead of a corporation that had no 
funds on hand. The idea was to make every man a copartner. 

Q. I thought, from what was stated before, that the idea was to get 
rid of individual responsibility. — A. In the first contract with Hoxie 
that was the idea, but then nobody would go in. After this Oakes 
Ames contract everything had changed. Then the securities of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company could be sold. The moneys of the 
Credit Mobilier had beeen exhausted, and parties were willing to come 
in and take the chances of the Oakes Ames contract, as it looked to be 
a profitable investment. 

Q. As the Credit Mobilier was represented by certain stockholders, 
and as those same stockholders were to participate in the profits of this 
contract, I would like to have you explain why it could not have been 
carried on by the Credit Mobilier without the intervention of trus- 
tees. — A. If it were clone by the corporation there was no liability at 
all. If you held $100,000 of stock in the corporation, and the corpora- 
tion failed for $10,000,000, you only lost the amount of stock held by 
you • but if the trustees failed in this contract every stockholder was 
individually liable for all that he was worth. 

Q. Then the object was to make every individual liable for the per- 
formance of the contract ? — A. That was my object. There was some 
feeling as regards the Credit Mobilier. They had been somewhat dis- 
appointed in not having a contract, and they wanted to have a voice in 
the matter some way. 

Q. Had the Credit Mobilier been taxed, by the State of Pennsylvania, 
on dividends that had been declared f — A. Not at that time ; it has 
been since. 

Q. Was it not proposed at that time to tax the Credit Mobilier on its 
dividends ? — A. O, no ; it had not dividends enough then. 

Q. Had there not dividends been declared ? — A. It had paid taxes 
on those that had been declared. 

Q. Was not a part of the purpose, at least, in making this change, to 
avoid the payment of taxes to the State of Pennsylvania? — A. No, sir ; 
that did not enter my mind at all. 

Q. Was there nothing said about it?*— A. Not to me. 

Q. Did you ever hear that matter mentioned ? — A. I have heard it in 
connection with those suits • which suits were decided in favor of the 
corporation. 

Q. Was not that contract entered into for the purpose of avoiding 
the payment of taxes to the State of Pennsylvania? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was that no part of the purpose? — A. No, sir,* after my injunc- 
tion and quarrel with the Credit Mobilier, as long as I owned a share 
of stock in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, I would not have made 
that contract if the Credit Mobilier were to have it. 

Q. When payments were made on account of this contract by the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company to the board of trustees, in what were 
those payments made? — A. The payments were made in cash. 

Q. Those trustees did receive bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company, I believe?— A. They purchased them. 

Q. And they received stock ? — A. They purchased the stock, too. 

Q. Please inform the committee how that thing was done. — A. When- 
ever the trustees wished to make a purchase, they made the Union Pacific 



76 CREDIT MOBILISE AND * UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Railroad Company an offer for a certain amount of securities, fixing the 
price. 

Q. Why were not those bonds taken on the contract in payment for 
the work performed under the contract, instead of buying from the com- 
pany ? — A. Because the railroad company, after the time of making the 
contract, expected to get a higher price for their bonds than the market- 
price at that time, and they preferred to sell their own securities. 

Q. But some of the trustees purchased the bonds from the company'? — 
A. Only a small portion of them, not one-tenth. 

Q. I understood you to say a moment ago that the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company paid these trustees for the work done under the- 
Ames contract in cash? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you say that the trustees purchased bonds and stock from the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company,- is that so? — A. Certainly. They 
subscribed to the stock regularly, through their treasurer, and paid 
for it. 

Q. In money ? — A. In money, I think. 

Q. When this stock and these bonds were purchased by the trustees 
from the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, was the price fined ? — A. 
Yes, in every instance. 

Q. Where was the necessity for going through with that kind of cir- 
cumlocution ? — A. Simply to keep the books straight. 

Q. The company owed these trustees for the construction of the road, 
did it not? — A. Certainly. 

Q. They agreed about the price of their bonds ? — A. Yes ; from time 
to time. 

Q. And agreed upon the price of the stock ? — A. O, no ; the stock 
-was always at par. 

Q. Then why not take the bonds and stock in satisfaction of what the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company owed the trustees an account of the 
performance of the contract ? — A. The contract provides that the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company shall pay a certain amount in cash. The 
company chose to sell their own bonds. If they sold enough bonds to 
conclude the whole thing, well and good. If they did not sell but one- 
half of what they wanted, the Union Pacific Eailroad Company was 
still obliged to pay cash. But the trustees, under the Oakes Ames con- 
tract, desired to have stock enough, and they came in and subscribed 
at par. 

Q. In selling those bonds the Union Pacific Eailroad Company sold 
some of them to these trustees 8 — A. Yes, sir ; generally with the priv- 
ilege of taking them back if the company could get a higher price for 
them. The object was to give the company the chances of the bond- 
market all to itself. But sometimes, if they sold the bonds to the trustees, 
and if the trustees put the bonds on the market as rapidly as they 
required money, they might have affected the price of the bonds. 

Q. Then the effect of this mode of doing business was, that the 
trustees would buy bonds from the company and pay cash for them? — 
A. In a few instances. 

Q. Did they get bonds in any other way? — A. In no other way than 
by paying cash-for them. 

Q. All the bonds that the trustees had they got by purchase from 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And all the bonds that were distributed as dividends or allot- 
ments A. Were bonds which they purchased and paid for. 

Q. Then the trustees paid over the money for these bonds to the com- 
pany ? — A. Yes, sir. 



CREDIT MOJBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 77 

Q. And the company paid the money back to the trustees on account 
of the contract ? — A. They paid on the engineer's estimates. They paid 
by exchange of checks. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. State whether at the time of these receipts, in January, 18GS, and 
immediately afterward, that have been put in evidence, given to the 
trustees of the Ames contract, those trustees had not, by virtue of the 
arrangement, acquired the entire control of the Union Pacific Bail- 
road % — A. Most assuredly they ought to have. The stockholders had 
the control. 

Q. Had not the trustees under the Ames contract received from the 
stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad Company proxies authoriz- 
ing them, as a condition for receiving their dividends, to vote six- tenths 
of the stock of each man? — A. Yes; in the election of directors. 

Q. So that at that time the entire control of the Union Pacific Bail- 
road Company was vested in the trustees % — A. So far as the election 
of directors was concerned. 

Q. That involved the whole control? — A. O, no. Stockholders, at 
their meetings, could do what they chose. 

Q. Is there any limitation in this condition to voting on the election 
of directors ? Is it not an irrevocable power of attorney to vote gen- 
erally J ? Look at it in the 5th specification. — A. (After reading the 
paper.) This agreement can be construed that way. 

Q. Hid not the persons signing the receipts for these dividends agree 
to be bound by all the terms and conditions of that agreement as apart 
of their receipt ? — A. Yes, sir; they did. They made the trustees their 
agent. 

Q. But one of the terms and conditions of that agreement was to get 
that irrevocable power of attorney to vote on six-tenths of the stock of 
the person receipting for the dividend, was it not? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then it is-true, is it not, that this agreement involved the trans- 
fer to these trustees of the entire control of the Union Pacific Bailroad 
Company, so far as that control could be exercised by its stockhold- 
ers? — A. It appears so from this. 

Q. Ho you say that the purpose of this transaction was, in large part, 
to make the persons who entered into and took dividends under it liable 
as partners, so that they had individual liability, instead of the mere 
liabilit3 7 of the corporation known as the Credit Mobilier? Was that 
purpose explained to all the persons to whom these dividends were 
paid ? — A. It was talked openly that we had $50,000,000 to back us. I 
do not know about any explanation being made, as I was in Europe at 
the time these dividends were paid. 

Q. Have you anything that causes you to believe that the women 
whose names appear on this list as persons wito received these divi- 
dends had it explained to them that they were made liable in all their 
private fortune for the contracts of these trustees? — A. All the stock- 
holders understood it. I never conversed with any one who did not 
understand it. 

Q. A good many of them seem to have signed this receipt by attor- 
ney ?— A. Yes ; but most of those had signed a separate document pre- 
viously agreeing to it. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. What amount of money in all was distributed to the stockholders 
of the Credit Mobilier on account of this Oakes Ames contract? — A. 
The amount of money distributed in cash was $3,375,000. 



78 CREDIT MOBILIER XKD UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. What amount of Union Pacific Eailroacl bonds was distributed in 
the aggregate ? — A. Five million eight hundred and twelve thousand 
five hundred dollars at par. 

Q. What amount of Union Pacific Eailroad stock was distributed in 
the aggregate? — A. Eleven million two hundred and fifty thousand 
dollars at par. But that stock dividend included something belonging 
to the Davis contract. The estimate for that stock dividend was made 
on 713 miles of road, on an expenditure of $60,000,000, whereas the 
Ames contract involved only an expenditure of $45,000,000 or 
$46,000,000. 

Q. State whether the Credit Mobilier had also the benefits of what 
you have spoken of as the Davis contract. — A. The Davis contract was 
assigned to the same trustees. 

Q. These amounts that you have given, money, stock, and bonds, do 
they represent the profits to the shareholders of the Credit Mobilier on 
a capital stock of $3,750,000 f Were they dividends on account of their 
being stockholders to that amount I — A. They were on account of their 
being stockholders in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 

Q. Can you tell what proportion of this amount of stock that was 
divided is properly applicable to what was derived from the Oakes 
Ames contract? — A. The Oakes Ames contract amounted to about 
$45,000,000 or $46,000,000. These dividends were paid on $60,738,863, 
less $5,000,000. 

Q. Would the proportion of this dividend of stock properly applicable 
to the Ames contract be as 45 to 55 ? — A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Do the money, stock, and bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company, which you have described, constitute all that was divided to 
these stockholders in the Credit Mobilier? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was there nothing else divided but these three things, stock and 
bonds in the Union Pacific Eailroad and money ? — A. Nothing else. 

Q. There never was any division of specie from any of the Govern- 
ment bonds ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. What has. been the average price of the first-mortgage bonds since 
their first distribution ? — A. From 80 to S5. 

Q. At the time of the distribution what was their price? — A. I think 
it would average 85. I think, however, that the trustees paid par for 
them. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Was there an increase of the stock of the Credit Mobilier at any 
time ; if so, when and to what extent ? — A. The capital stock was 
$2,000,000 on March 15, 1865. On September 21, 1865, it was increased 
to $2,500,000. The next increase was in the fore part of 1867, I think, 
and that increase was $1,250,000. 

Q. How was that stock disposed of ?— A. It was distributed to the 
stockholders of the Credit Mobilier pro rata, according to the amount 
of old stock they held. 

Q. Did the stockholders pay for that stock; and if so, at what rate? — 
A. They paid for it at par. The terms of payment were 25 per cent, on 
February 22, 25 per cent, on March 15, 25 per cent, on April 5, and 25 
p^r cent, on April 26. 

Q. Were any persons outside of the then stockholders in the Credit 
Mobilier allowed to have any of that additional stock ? — A. Yes; par- 
ties took their stock and sold it. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 79 

Question repeated. — A. No one took it unless those who were share- 
holders. 

Q. And they could do what they pleased with it after they got it? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You increased the stock for the purpose of getting money to carry 
on the work ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Have you a statement to show the earnings of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad, gross and net, annually, since its completion? — A. I have 
not. 

• Q. Can you give the committee a statement of the amount of interest 
which the Union Pacific Eailroad Company is now paying annually ? — 
A. I cannot. 

Q. Are you acquainted with Anna M. Dodge ? — A. I have seen her ; 
she is the wife of General Dodge, chief engineer of the company. 

Q. She is a stockholder in the Credit Mobilier, I believe % — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Do you know who paid for her stock % — A. I do not. She pur- 
chased her stock after I had anything to do with the books. 

Q. Did she purchase that stock from the Credit Mobilier ? — A. I can- 
not tell you. 

Q. Look at the stock-ledger and see from whom she got it. — A. (Re- 
ferring to the book.) This stock -ledger shows that she got the stock by 
new subscription, February 29, 1869. 

Q. Refer to the cash-book, and see whether corresponding cash was 
paid in on that day. — A. (After referring to the book.) According to 
the cash-book, which was kept by Mr. Ham, it appears that she paid 
$10,000 the 29th of February, 1868, on account of the capital stock of 
the Credit Mobilier, for which she got 100 shares of stock, in certificate 
number 372. 

Q. To whom was that money paid ; who was the officer of the Credit 
Mobilier who would receive that money % — A. The treasurer or assistant 
treasurer. 

Q. Who was he at that time? — A. I think Mr. Ham was. She may 
have purchased it before, but that is the date of the transfer of the cer- 
tificate, and the date of the payment. 

Q. From whom did she get that stock? — A. From the company. It 
was an original subscription to the company. 

Q. How does it happen that she was permitted to subscribe for stock 
at that date ? — A. I am not positive that every stockholder took all his 
stock at first. There was some left in the treasury. Mr. Ames or Mr. 
Alley, or some one, gave a paper to some of the large stockholders to 
sign, consenting to distribute what stock there was in the treasury. I 
think I signed the paper, and this may have been some of that stock. 

Q. Is there any further explanation of that transaction ? — A. I do not 
know anything more of it. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Be kind enough to give to the committee all the information in 
your power in reference to the subject-matter of the question why it was 
that Mrs. Dodge was authorized to take that stock. — A. I am not an 
officer of the company, and cannot answer that question. Her husband 
was chief engineer of the road. 

Q. Have you given the committee all the information in your power 
on that subject ? — A. Yes. 

Q. You say that her husband was chief engineer of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company? — A. Yes, sir. 



80 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Is it your understanding that if he had not been chief engineer of 
the railroad his wife would have been permitted at that time to take 
that stock at par? — I do not know. I had nothing to do with the 
Credit Mobilier at that time. 

Q, You say you think that somebody brought you a paper and re- 
quested you to sign it, authorizing that to be done? — A. It was a paper 
giving the consent of the large stockholders to distribute auy stock 
there was in the treasury. 

Q. At that time you had no doubt that that stock was valuable much 
beyond its par value ? — A. The stock itself was not, but the rights it 
carried under the Oakes Ames contract were. 

Q. Now, was not the permitting a person at that time to take this new 
stock at its par value equivalent to diminishing by just so much the 
profits of the remaining stockholders ? — A. Yes ; but the capital had 
been fixed at $3,750,000, and the dividends were predicated on that. 

Q. But if no new stock had been subscribed for, there would be just 
so much more to divide among those who remained ? — A. Certainly. 
But the original stockholders were willing to allow tbis to be done. In 
most of the cases, at the time of distributing this stock, there had been 
a good deal of stock promised. Some parties had taken their stock 
and sold it,j but had not made the transfer, and then, as usual in all 
cases where there comes to be a dividend, every one looks for his stock. 

Q. When Mrs. Anna M. Dodge was allowed to subscribe at par for 
these one hundred shares of stock, were you not aware that it was 
equivalent to giving her a valuable property of two or three times the 
par value of the stock ? — A. She may have subscribed for it some months 
previously. 

Q. Then, unless there had been some previous right to it on her part, 
you were aware that it was equivalent to giving her a sum equal to two 
or three times the par value of the stock? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you informed at the time you signed that paper that there 
had been any such previous promise to Mrs. Dodge, so far as you now 
recollect ? — A. I had been informed that there were previous sales of 
stock, but that it was difficult to deliver it. 

Q. Did you believe at the time you signed that consent that there 
had been any such previous contract made with Mrs. Dodge? — A. I did 
not state that Mrs. Dodge was embraced in that consent to distribute, 
but I suppose she was. 

Q. My question is, whether at the time you signed that consent you 
were told that there had been any previous contract made with her, so 
far as you now recollect. — A. I do not recollect that her name was 
mentioned. 

Q. Do you believe that the motive of allowing that subscription to be 
taken by her was because her husband was chief engineer of the road ? 
— A. I do not. 

Q. You mentioned the fact that he was.— A. Yes 5 because you asked 
me who she was. 

Q. I asked you what the motive was, and you said that her husband 
was chief engineer of the road. Do you believe that the fact that her 
hasband was chief engineer of the road induced the allowance of this 
subscription on her part at that time? — A. 1 do not think it did. He 
was always speculating in stock and bonds. 

By Mr. Slocum : 
Q. Did that stock carry back dividends with it?— A. The first divi- 
dends were not paid to her on that stock. It appears, by the books, 
that the first dividend she received was on June 3, 1870. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 81 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Will you furnish the committee with a copy of the Davis contract 
of which you spoke ? — A. The Davis contract was made on November 1, 
1868. Here is a copy of the contract. (Exhibit No. 9.) 

Q. Was that contract assigned to the Credit Mobilier ? — A. It was 
not. It was assigned to the same seven trustees who held the assign- 
ment of the Oakes Ames contract. 

Q. Have you a copy of that assignment? — A. The assignment is here. 
(Also marked Exhibit No. 9.) 

Q. What was the whole cost to the Union Pacific Kailroad Company, 
of the construction of tbis road ? — A. I cannot answer that question. I 
have not the data on which to answer it. 

Q. Do you know anything of the disposition of any of this Credit 
Mobilier stock, other than what you have spoken of here in your 
answers to questions put to you ? — A. I know what stock was originally 
subscribed for, and the books show the rest. 

Qf. Do you recollect that Secretary McCulloch at any time would not 
accept the report of the commissioner appointed by the Government to. 
examine the road, and that he refused to issue bonds to the road on 
account of it ? — A. I recollect that there was some difficulty about the 
Government issuing bonds without having another examination made. 

Q. Did you come to the city of Washington with Mr. Brooks, then 
one of the Government directors, for the purpose of getting that road 
accepted, to the end that the bonds might be issued to the company ? — 
A. I came with Mr. Brooks to see what the trouble was. I called upon 
him as a Government director. 

Q. Did Mr. Brooks at that time, or at any other time, offer to get that 
acceptance of the road in consideration of your giving him fifty shares 
of Credit Mobilier stock ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did nothing of that kind occur between you and Mr. Brooks ? — A . 
Nothing of the sort. 

Q. Did you employ Mr. Simeon Johnson to aid you in that behalf? — A. 
No, si K 

Q. Or anybody else ? — A. No, sir. There were, I think, at least twenty 
people running after me, representing that they knew the best thing to. 
be done. A great many people applied, knowing that we wanted our 
bonds, and offered to show us how we could get them. I dispensed with 
the services of every one of them that we could possibly get along with- 
out. 

Q. Did you bring Mr. Brooks over here, or did he come over here, 
for the purpose of aiding you to have the work accepted? — A. He came 
ov$r here as a Government director. 

Q. Did he come over to assist you in getting the work accepted by the 
Government? — A. Yes, he came to see what was required; what the 
Government wanted. 

Q. But you never agreed to give him fifty shares of stock, or any other 
number of shares of the Credit Mobilier stock? — A. I never agreed to 
give him a cent. I think he was entitled to his per diem pay : whether 
he got that or not, I do not know. 

Q. You say that you never employed Mr. Simeon Johnson? — A. No, 
sir. Mr. Johnson had offered his services, and afterward brought me a 
note, after he found that the bonds had been delivered. The note was 
from somebody purporting to be private secretary to the President, (I 
do not recollect the name.) The note was dated u Executive Mansion,'' 
and stated that Mr. Johnson had done good service in getting the bonds. 
But as it happened that we had got the bonds by an arrangement, deposit- 

6 C 31 



82 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

ing security for them, I knew that that statement was all a hoax, and I 
paid no attention to it. The person sending the note did not sign his 
name as private secretary, but I presumed from the heading of the note 
that he was such. 

By Mr. Sloctjm : 

Q. It was a note written on one of the blanks used at the Presidential 
Mansion ?— A. Yes; and I inferred that it was from the private secretary 
of the President. 

Q. Under whose administration was that ? — A. Under Andrew John- 
son's administration. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. But you say that you never agreed to give Mr. Simeon Johnson 
any number of shares of stock, or employed him in your service? — A. 
Not that I recollect. 

Q. When Mr. Johnson came to you afterward, what was it that he 
demanded of you ? — A. My remark to Mr. Johnson was that we had 
our bonds. He asked me how I knew that. I said that I had learned 
it from Mr. Brooks. He then made the remark, " Mr. Brooks has got 
ahead of us." 

Q. But he did come and demand of you some bonds % — A. I do not 
know that he demanded any bonds. He wanted some payment for his 
services ; I think $500. 

Q. Did he not demand of you fifty shares of stock ? — A. Nq, sir. 

Q. No bonds ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever deliver fifty shares of stock in the Credit Mobilier to 
Mr. Brooks ? — A. No, sir. I transferred to Mr. Neilson, his son-in-law, 
one hundred shares. 

Q. Did you transfer to Mr. Neilson any other stock? — A. I think I 
transferred at the same time two hundred shares Union Pacific Railroad 
stock. 

Q. Anything else? — A. I gave him five Union Pacific Railroad bonds. 

Q. Anything else ? — A. Nothing else. 

Q. On what account did you make that transfer to Mr. Neilson? — A. 
In settlement of a contract, a bargain, a claim, of Mr. Brooks, made 
prior to the Oakes Ames contract. 

Q. What was that bargain with Mr. Brooks ? — A. At the time of the 
increase of this capital stock of the Credit Mobilier, the parties who 
took the new stock were not only obliged to pay for it at par, but were 
obliged to lend an equal amount of money to the company for four 
months. 

Q. What was the contract between you and Mr. Brooks, on which you 
made this transfer to Neilson ? — A. An agreement at the time that he 
should take stock. 

Q. He agreed to take stock of the Credit Mobilier at that time ? — A. 
Mr. Brooks was very anxious to help the thing along. This was before 
he was appointed Government director, and hearing me say that we 
wished we could dispose of five or six hundred thousand dollars of this 
Credit Mobilier stock, and that if we could not do better I would give 
5 per cent, for placing it, he undertook to place it, and he went to dif- 
ferent parties to induce them to take it. During the time he was trying 
to negotiate it, he proposed to take one hundred and fifty or two hun- 
dred shares himself. 

Q. Did he take them % — A. I agreed to let him have them. 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 83 

Q. Did he pay the money for them ? — A. He did not pay the money 
at that time. 

Q. When was that? — A. That was some time between February and 
April, 1867. 

Q. Did he ever pay any money on that stock? — A. Yes; when he 
took it, he paid the money. 'At the time we made the Oakes Ames con- 
tract, Mr. Brooks came to me, and wanted that we should give him 
$20,000 worth of the Credit Mobilier stock, two hundred, shares, saying 
that he had agreed to take that amount. 1 begged to correct that state- 
ment, and I refused to let him have the stock, claiming that I was not 
obliged to let him have so much. After a good deal of discussion, I 
compromised the trade with him, and gave him one hundred shares of 
the stock, two hundred shares of the Union Pacific stock, and five bonds. 
Then I got a release from him from the other one hundred shares that 
he claimed. 

Q. Was that release in writing? — A. No, it was a mere verbal state- 
ment, and I ordered the stock transferred. 

Q. When was it that Mr. Brooks claimed that that contract was made 
between him and you, entitling him to two hundred shares of Credit 
Mobilier stock ? — A. It was at the time that he was trying to place the 
stock. That w.as between February and April, 1867. 

Q. When was it that he came to you and insisted upon a settlement 
of that matter, or that you made this compromise of wiiich you have 
spoken ? — A. He insisted upon it all through the month of December. 
I settled with him, I think, on the 26th of December, 1867. 

Q. You say he paid for that stock ?— A. Yes ; he paid 810.000. 

Q. This was a prior contract, before the Oakes Ames assignment. 
How did it happen that that stock was transferred to Mr. Neilson ? — 
A. When we came to settle, he said, " I have just been appointed a Gov- 
ernment director of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and I cannot 
take any Pacific Eailroad stock myself, but I have disposed of it," and 
so it was transferred to Mr. Neilson. 

Q. Had the capital stock of the Credit Mobilier been increased before 
that time ? — A. Yes. 

Q, Did Mr. Neilson get fifty additional shares in consequence of the 
increase? — A. He got fifty additional shares. I do not know how he 
got it. At that time I had nothing to do with the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. You do not know x how he got these additional shares ? — A. I sup- 
pose he got them by paying for them. 

Q. Have you any knowledge on the subject? — A. Only from the divi- 
dend-books, by which I see that he collected a dividend upon the fifty 
shares. Mr. Brooks was not fully satisfied with the settlement. 

Q. He was wanting more? — A. He thought he ought to have had 
more at the time that we compromised on one hundred shares. 

By Mr. Swann: 
Q. Was the transfer to Mr. Brooks made by order of the board?— A. 
No 5 it was transferred from my own stock. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. Had you paid for that stock to the company ? — A. O, yes ; the stock 
was all paid for. 

Q. Have you brought a suit against Mr. Brooks in the city of New 
York, or against anybody else, for the purpose of recovering these one 
hundred shares of stock ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Or recovering any stock ? — A. I asked the Credit Mobilier to sue 
Mr. Ames for any stock which he claimed to have delivered and dis- 



84 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

tributed, but which he had not sold ; and I also asked them to sue Mr. 
Brooks for these fifty shares. I claimed that if Mr. Neilson had got 
these fifty additional shares under any supposed agreement of mine, he 
ought to* be made to return them, or be sued for their value. 

Q. Then you have brought a suit % — A. I have had the papers made 
out. They have not been served on all the parties yet. I have issued 
a summons or complaint, but the papers have not been served on all the 
parties. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Who is the plaintiff in the suit % — A. I am. I sue as a stockholder 
of the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. That suit is on account of those fifty shares of stock'? — A. It is 
on account of the fifty shares which, I have been informed, Mr. Neilson 
received. 

Q. Had the stock which is in controversy in this suit anything to do 
with auy agreement on your part with any person to assist you in pro- 
curing the acceptance by the Government of this road or any part of 
it % — A. O, no ; none whatever. That was long prior to this time. 

Q. I understand you to say, then, that at no time did you make any 
agreement with anybody to give fifty shares of Credit Mobilier stock in 
order to get assistance % — A. Not a dollar of bonds nor a dollar of 
stock. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. Was Mr. Brooks at that time a member of Congress % — A. I think 
he was $ I am not positive. It was not for congressional services, how- 
ever, that he earned it, or expected to earn it. I had no idea we should 
ever have anything before Congress. 

Q. Do you know anything about this Mr. Simeon Johnson?— A. I do 
not know .who introduced him to me. 

Q. What was his position here ; was he a claims-agent % — A. I do not 
know. 

Q. You do not know anything about his connection with the Depart- 
ments %—r-K. No, sir. 

By Mr. Shell abarger : 

Q. What was the Credit Mobilier stock worth in December, 1866 ; 
what could it have been sold for to those gentlemen who knew its 
value ?— A. From 85 to par. 

Q. What was it worth on January 5, 1867 f — A. You could have got it 
for considerably less than par. 

Q. To those who knew its value, and the prospects of the company 
and the Union Pacific Bailroad, what could it have been bought and 
sold for %— A. From 90 to 95. 

Q. What was it worth in May, 1867 ? — A. It was not worth above par. 
It had never been sold above par. 

Q. Has it been on the stock-boards % — A. No, sir ; it has never been 
on the stock-board. 

Q. What was it worth in June, 1867 % — A. It was not worth any 
more. 

Q. When did it first advance in value? — A. After the Ames contract 
was made. 

Q. How soon after ? — A. After that the Ames contract was assigned, 
so that the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier had an interest in it. 

Q. When did you first survey the region that is spoken of in the act 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 85 

of Congress as the Eocky Mountains ? — A. I think we made our first 
surveys in the fall of 1863. 

Q. When was the pass discovered and ascertained that was adopted 
for the construction of the line of your road 5 I mean in that region on 
which you drew $48,000 a mile from the Government ? — A. The pass in 
the Eocky Mountains was not established, at the point where our line 
crossed, until afterward. 

Q. When was the character of that portion of the road which is 
spoken of in the 11th section of the act of 1862 as one hundred and 
fifty miles westward from the eastern base of the Eocky Mountains, 
first surveyed ?— A. In 1863. 

Q. Its character then became known to the officers of the company ? 
— A. The general character of the country became known, but we sur- 
veyed half a dozen routes to see how we could best get through. 

Q. The route that was in fact adopted became known in 1863 ? — A. 
The geueral route did. 

Q. When did the officers of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company first 
make a survey of that line which was in fact adopted, and on which 
the road was built, and which is described in the act of Congress as one 
hundred and fifty miles westward from, the eastern base of the Eocky 
Mountains ? — A. That is the road of the Central Pacific Company. 

Q. You stated awhile ago that your road passed through what is 
called in the act of Congress the Eocky Mountains, and reached to 
that portion of the country which intervenes between the Sierra Nevada 
Mountains and the Eocky Mountains, and that you got $48,000 a mile 
on the eastern part; and you said you also got a portion of that line 
that drew $32,000 a mile lying between the two ranges % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then, my question is, when the officers of the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company first became acquainted with that portion of the line 
that is spoken of in the act of Congress as one hundred and fifty miles 
westward from the Eocky Mountains ? — A. We were making those sur- 
veys from 1863 to 1867. 

Q. The question is, not when you were making the surveys, but when 
you first became acquainted with the character of that one hundred and 
fifty miles described in my question, and on which you constructed the 
road ? — A. We became acquainted with the general character of the 
country in 1863 or 1864 ; but we did not know whether the line would 
be carried one hundred miles north or one hundred miles south, and we 
were continually running lines to ascertain the best route. 

Q. My question is, not what you found by other surveys about the 
general character of the country, but when the officers of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company first knew the character of that route which, 
you did adopt? — A. I think it was in 1866, or in the fore part of 1867. 

Q. Then, prior to the making of the Oakes Ames contract, there had 
been a survey made of that portion of the road which drew from the 
Government $48,000 a mile? — A. There had been preliminary surveys 
made of it. 

Q. Were those preliminary surveys made by instrumentation? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. When were the reports, profiles, and specifications made on which 
you let that work to Mr. Ames? — A. That is a matter of dates which I 
cannot speak of without referring to the engineer's report. 

Q. Were those reports made in writing, with accompanying profiles 
an c> estimates? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And these are in existence? — A. I suppose so. 



86 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. "Where are they ? — A. I do not know 5 I have not had anything to 
do with the company since 1869. 

Q. Have you any information which would enable the committee to 
get at them % — A. I think that the maps which were sent to the New 
York office were boxed up and sent to Boston with the other papers. 

Q. Did those reports estimate the amounts of work, including exca- 
vations and fillings ? — A. I think the reports contained estimates of 
quantities. 

Q. And on these estimates was made this contract with Mr. Ames? — 
A. Yes, sir ; they had maps and profiles. 

Q. Were those maps and profiles put up in any place for public in- 
spection, and for the purpose of competition ? — A. I do not know as to 
that. 

Q. Were you then an officer of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — 
A. I was ; I was vice-president. 

Q. What were your duties as vice-president ? — A. I was out on the 
line most of the time. 

Q. Your duties were active, and connected immediately with the 
matter of letting the work f — A. The board authorized me to let certain 
contracts, which I did let. 

Q. Was there any advertisement published by the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company, inviting competition for these contracts? — A. There were 
various propositions made, and I think that the large contractors who 
were likely to take hold of such work were notified. 

Q, How?— A. By letter. 

Q. To whom ? — A. To the parties who we thought would be likely to 
do such work. 

Q. Who are those parties ? — A. I do not know their names. 

Q. Do you know that any person was written to it at all ? — A. I under- 
stood so at the time. 

Q. Then you speak from information and not from any knowledge 
that you have % — A. I know that there were other propositions made 
previously to that. 

Q. To whom ? — A. I do not recollect now. 

Q. After the surveys were made and the profiles filed? — A. Yes, sir; 
but the board did not take particular pains to get propositions then. 
The propositions all came for cash, without any conditions as to the sub- 
scriptions for the stock, and it was utterly impossible for the company 
to raise cash enough to do it. 

Q. How were your propositions made ; what conditions were coupled 
with them ? — A. There was a committee appointed to receive proposi- 
tions. 

Q. Do you know what conditions the propositions contained ? — A. I 
do not; I presume that some of them may be on record. 

Q. State whether any offer was made by the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company to anybody to take this contract, and to be paid for it out of 
the cash paid in by subscription to the capital stock? — A. The company, 
when it first started, undertook to make small contracts. 

Q. I am speaking of the time when the Ames contract was let, after 
the surveys were made, and when there were profiles and estimates ; 
was there any offer made to any person to take the work and be paid 
in money out of the money paid in for the capital stock, as required by 
law ? — A. I do not know that there was. 

Q. The original act, or the subsequent one of 1861, requires the pay- 
ment of five per cent. I will read from the act, as part of my question : 
" The said company shall make assessments upon its stockholders of 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 87 

not less than five per cent, per share, and at intervals not exceeding six 
months from and after the passage of this act, until the par value of the 
said shares subscribed shall be fully paid." Now, my question is whether, 
after these profiles were filed, and at the time the company was seeking 
to let this 667 miles that Mr. Ames got, anybody was given an oppor- 
tunity to take that contract, and take their pay out of this money thus 
provided to be paid in on stock? — A. The company could not advertise 
for contracts payable in cash, because they had no cash, and the stock- 
holders would not pay up; they would not make new subscriptions. 

Q. Didn't the stockholders pay up? — A. Every stockholder of the 
original two and a half millions paid up in full on his stock, or the Credit 
Mobil ier did. 

Q. What was the whole amount of stock issued by the Pacific Railroad 
Company in all, from the beginning to the end ?— A. I understand about 
thirty-six million dollars — about thirty-six or thirty-seven millions. 

Q. Then you say the whole amount of that stock was paid in cash by 
the stockholders % — A. By subscribers. The first subscription for two 
and a half millions was paid up. The next was stock taken by the 
Credit Mobilier, making the capital stock five or six million dollars at 
the time of the Oakes Ames contract. This amount was paid and the 
money in the treasury. The balance was subscribed by the seven trus- 
tees. 

Q. 'You say now that the whole amount of stock subscribed to the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company by all parties, from the beginning to 
the end, was about thirty-six or thirty-seven million dollars ; when did 
it reach that amount? — A. Since the last rail was laid — since 1869. 

Q. What amount had been subscribed to the capital stock before the 
loth of August, 1867 % — A. I think between five or six millions, and all 
paid up pretty much. 

Q. That five or six millions that was subscribed and paid up had all 
been expended % — A. Yes, sir ; in completing the road to the one hun- 
dredth meridian — two hundred and forty-seven miles. 

Q. Now, then, at the time the Oakes Ames contract was made, there 
was, therefore, no stock of the railroad company taken by any parties 
except this five, or six millions ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. There was, then, no agreement on the part of anybody, either cor- 
porations, Credit Mobilier, or any party, to take further stock? — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. How came the company, then, when they had no means, no stock 
subscribed for or promised, to let this work out? — A. Because it was 
the only way they could get it done ; you will see the contract itself 
provides the means for the completion of the road. 

Q. How did the company hope to pay for the making of the road, when 
they had no stock either promised or paid in? — A. Because the contract 
with Oakes Ames guarantees in itself to the company the funds to com- 
plete the road. It proposed to take their bonds, and it agreed to pay 
the discount beyond a certain amount on them. It then provided that 
in case the bonds, the Government and first-mortgage, were not suf- 
ficient to complete the road, they will subscribe, or procure to be sub- 
scribed, at par, stock sufficient to furnish the funds to complete the 
road. 

Q. Then, so far as that was concerned, it was an undertaking on the 
part of the contractors to make the road without any other amount of 
stcfck than that amount which was then subscribed ? — A. No, sir; they 
subscribed themselves the stock to make the road. . 



88 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Who subscribed ? — A. The trustees. 

Q. Was this stock to be paid otherwise than in money ? — A. N"o, sir 5 
it was to be paid in money. 

Q. How was the money to be raised? — A. That was their look-out. 
They had a party strong enough, to raise the money. They were all 
individually liable. 

Q. The subscriptions for the stock were taken by the seven trustees? 
— A. Yes, sir ; by the seven trustees. 

Q. When did the Credit Mobilier stock first advance in price ma- 
terially? — A. As soon as it was known that it had an interest in the 
Ames contract. 

Q. When did that first become known ? — A. The contract appears to 
be dated on the day that the board passed a resolution that they would 
approve the contract. The details were left to the executive committee, 
and they approved it on the first of October, 1867. The arrangement 
was made known about the loth of October. Then there was a com- 
mittee sent out to see the condition of the work, and a report was made 
about the 1st of December, 1867. 

Q. That was the time that this advance took place in the price of 
stock ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was it worth between August 15 and October 1? — A. About 
par or 95. 

Q, Was there any understanding either directly or indirectly between 
Mr. Ames and the Union Pacific Railroad Company whereby he was to 
share in profits of the contract with other parties before it was let to 
him ? — A. None whatever. There was no necessity for that, because 
every stockholder had to give his written consent to the contract. 

Q. 1 guess you didn't understand my question. \t was this: the con- 
tract with Mr. Ames was dated the 15th of August, 1867 ; was there 
any understanding between the Union Pacific Railroad Company and 
Mr. Ames that any profits that might be made out of his contract should 
be participated in by any other person than himself ?— A. None to my 
knowledge. 

Q. When did you first reach the purpose of making the arrangement 
that was made in October ?— A. You mean the time we made the con- 
tract? 

Q. Yes. When did you first fall upon the plan of letting other par- 
ties share with Ames in the profits of the contract ? — A. The manner 
in which it w r as done was between the 1st of October and the 15th. 
W T e had had just then a closely-contested election for directors, and I 
started out there with some parties, (General Butler was one of them,) 
and I think he drew up the contract, he and the company's attorney, 
Mr. Tracy, and perhaps Mr. Bell. The day it was dated was the day 
they hit upon the plan, 

Q. Then, at the time Mr. Ames took the contract, it was expected he 
would execute it according to the agreement ?— A. I do not know what 
others thought, but I expected he would certainly. It was not a con- 
tract until the written consent of each stockholder was obtained. The 
resolution for the contract was adopted subject to the approval of the 
executive committee; the executive committee ordered it approved, sub- 
ject to the written consent of all the stockholders of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company. 

By Mr. Swann : 
Q. How long have you been acquainted with Mr. Ames? — A, I think 
I first met Mr, Ames in Washington in the fall of 1863, 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 89 

Q. What was his business here ? — A. Member of Congress. 

Q. I mean the business he was engaged in in Boston. — A. He was 
engaged in the manufacture of shovels. He was also interested in the 
construction of railroads in Iowa. 

Q. How long had he been a contractor for railroads f — A. I do not 
know. 

Q. Was he a man of great influence among the moneyed men of the 
North ? — A. I do not know. In Boston I think he was to a very great 
extent. 

Q. He had the power to induce a great many persons to go into the 
Credit Mobilier? — A. O, yes. He had four or five hundred thousand 
dollars in it himself. 

Q. Was it your estimate of Mr. Ames that he was a very cautious 
man when he entered into contracts of this sort ?— A. I do not think he 
was very cautious ; he was pretty sanguine. 

Q. Do you know the basis upon which he made this original contract 
— the facts that justified him in makiug such a large contract? — A. 
There were estimates made. I do not think there was much attention 
paid to them. I think the principal fact was, that the day they made 
the contract there was three millions profits on hand. 

Q. From what source ? — A. The company had gone in debt for it. 

Q. The Credit Mobilier? — A. No, sir; the railroad company. e 

Q. And he took this contract under those circumstances? — A. They 
had commenced selling their bonds, but could not go on without mak- 
ing a contract. 

Q. Do you know whether Mr. Ames was in the habit of receiving in- 
formation, from the engineers in charge, of the probable cost of the 
work? — A. We had profiles from the engineers, and estimates were 
made from the profiles by engineers and officers here, so that we had 
an approximate estimate of a portion of the work. There was no neces- 
sity for going into estimates of the level portion. 

Q. At the time of entering into that contract, had Mr. Ames an esti- 
mate of the chief engineer of the probable'cost of the line that was to 
be constructed % — A. I can only answer that by saying that, on looking 
over the resolutions of the board, I find that the engineer was ordered 
to furnish such an estimate. 

Q. You do not know whether he did furnish it ? — A. I do not. I 
think the contract was delayed to get that estimate. 

Q. Do you think that Mr. Ames would have taken that large con- 
tract without an estimate of the engineer f — A. I do not think he would 
without an approximate estimate. 

Q. Do you know whether he had that estimate ? — A. I think the com- 
pany had it. I do not recollect. There were so many estimates, I do 
not recollect the particular ones. I know that the profiles were on the 
table at the time of making the contract. 

Q. Do you know the amount that was estimated as the total cost? — 
A. I do not. I cannot recollect them. 

Q. You have no memorandum of it in your books? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Then he was groping in the dark when he made the contract? — 
A. No, sir ; we had approximate estimates. 

Q. Your impression is, then, he had approximate estimates ? — A. Y^es, 
sir ; I do not know whether he had for the whole line or not. 

Q. How were these estimates made ; by the local engineers in charge 
of the different divisions of the road \ — A. They were made from pre- 
liminary surveys first. 



90 CEEDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC EAILEOAD. 

Q. "Were those estimates certified to by the chief engineer? — A. I 
think they were sent direct. 

Q. And the chief engineer had no supervision over them at all? — A. 
These men were appointed by him. 

Q. Appointed by whom? — A. By the chief engineer. 

Q. Bat I want to know whether or not the chief engineer certified to 
those estimates before they went to Mr. Ames. — A. I do not recollect 
whether they were certified to by him or not. I am not certain whether 
the chief engineer was not in Washington at the time. I know that 
the engineer's reports, profiles, and maps were on the table in the di- 
rectors' room, and were being examined by Mr. Ames and the rest of 
them ; and I know the matter was deferred several days, in order to get 
more information on the subject, but whether every mile of the whole 
667 was estimated upon, or whether every mile of profile was there, I 
could not say. 

Q. That is what I want to know — w T hether he had the aggregate cost 
of the road, certified to by the chief engineer, and did not trust entirely 
to the local engineers? — A. I suppose the local engineers were the best 
men to make that estimate. 

Q. I want to know whether the chief engineer sanctioned those esti- 
mates when they went in to Mr. Ames. — A. The chief engineer was there 
a portion of the time, and explained some of the difficulties to Mr. Ames, 
and I suppose, therefore, he sanctioned the estimates. 

Q. You never saw a general estimate of the cost of the whole work 
certified to by the chief engineer? — A. My dear sir, we couldn't wait 
for that; we built six hundred miles before the engineers and surveyors 
could make their estimates. 

Q. Then he made those contracts without any reliable data? — A. No, 
sir; he made his approximate estimates, based on what had already 
been done. 

Q. I w r ant to know whether Mr. Ames, when he made this contract, 
was in possession of reliable data ? — A. He was in possession of data 
that the road could be built. 

Q. What did he base his knowledge upon ? — A. Upon the reports of 
engineers. 

Q. Had he those reports? — A. He had. There were estimates made 
of the feasibility of diiferent routes, and as to which would pay the best, 
first, in an engineering point of view, and, second, in a commercial point 
of view. 

Q. I understand that those estimates varied very largely upon differ- 
ent sections? — A. Yes, sir. Some sections could be built at the same 
cost for thirty miles that it would cost to build one mile of other sec- 
tions. 

Q. So there was no sanction by the chief engineer, that you are aware 
of, at the time Ames entered into this large contract? — A. I think the 
estimates before him were sanctioned by the chief engineer. 

Q. Where were those estimates kept ?— A. They were in Omaha the 
last I knew of them. I believe they were sent to Boston. I have had 
nothing to do with the company since 1869. I believe they were boxed 
away, as we had no further use for them after that. 

Q. Didn't Mr. Ames exercise some control over those estimates; 
didn't they pass into his hands? — A. No, sir. 

Q. He made the contract without any knowledge of what the cost of 
the road would be? — A. He knew the cost of what had already been 
built. 

Q. I speak of the whole road. What was the estimated cost, as cal- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 91 

dilated by the engineers from instrumental surveys ; did you see those 
papers? — A. I think I have, but I have never seen them all together. 

Q. Can you estimate from those documents what was the probable 
cost of the road?-^A. If we waited for the estimates of all of them, we 
would never have got done at all. 

Q. I want to know what became of the estimates of the chief engi- 
neer; whether they passed under your supervision. Is it your im- 
pression that Mr. Ames would have made this large contract without 
being possessed of something reliable? — A. He had estimates of the 
heavy portions of the road. We did not care anything about the level 
prairie. Anybody could have built those sections. What we wanted 
was the estimates of rock-work. Those he had. That was the only 
thing there was any trouble about. 

Q. What has become of them now ? — A. I presume the company has 
them now in its office in Boston. 

Q. Don't you suppose that Mr. Ames was the custodian of those esti-' 
mates at the time he made the contract ? — A. Mr. Ames may have had 
a copy of them. 

Q. The estimates of the whole line or of the different divisions? — A. 
The preliminary surveys. 

Q. Where can the committee find those estimates ? — A. Either in 
Boston or Omaha. They are very voluminous, and after we had no use 
for them we put them away. 

Q. You have no knowledge of those papers being abstracted? — A. 
O, no. There is no reason why they should be abstracted. 

Q. Well, there is very great reason why a certain state of things could 
have induced persons to put them out of the way. I want to know 
where those estimates are. — A. The present engineer of the company, 
whoever he is, ought to be able to inform you. General Dodge is in 
Texas, I believe on the Southern Pacific road. 

Q. You don't know where they could be had? — A. I do not. I have 
had nothing to do with the company since 1869, and am not even a 
stockholder in it. Some of the maps may be in New York, in the loft 
there. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. What were the duties of the chief engineer in building the road? — 
A. To take general supervision of the engineering department. 

Q. And see thi.t the contractors complied with their contract ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. What were the duties of the Government directors chiefly | — A. 
To attend the meetings, and go out on the road and see that it was 
properly constructed. There were no specific duties ; they were to be 
on all the committees, and have a general knowledge of what was going 
on. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. And the details were attended to by Mr. Ames? — A. No; Mr. 
Ames never knew anything about them. After he transferred his con- 
tract, the Union Pacific gave him a general release. 

Q. He had nothing to do, then, but to receive the profits ? — A. Noth- 
ing to do but to receive the profits. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. In addition to the dividends you spoke of a while ago, w r as there 
not a 12 per cent, dividend covering two years? — A. I think there 



92 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

were two six per cent, dividends of the Credit Mobilier — not of the 
trustees. 

Q. There were, then, either one 12 per cent, or two 6 per cent, divi- 
dends of the Credit Mobilier? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Does this statement show all the dividends that were paid by the 
trustees? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Whether on the Ames contract or the Davis contract? — -A. Yes, 
sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. The Oakes Ames contract was made by Oakes Ames, on one side, 
and his brother Oliver on behalf of the company ? — Yes, sir. 

Q. Oliver Ames was president of the company ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the business partner of Oakes Ames ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. He signed the contract as president of the road ? — A. Yes, sir. 
, Q. Now, the provision of that Oakes Ames contract was, that Ames 
should subscribe to so much of the stock of the company as was neces- 
sary to pay him what should be due on the contract beyond what the 
Government bonds and the first-mortgage bonds would pay? — A. Yes, 
sir ; precisely. 

Q. The stock subscribed for by the Credit Mobilier was simply an 
obligation growiug out of the Oakes Ames contract? — A. Subscribed 
by the trustees? 

Q. Yes. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. So that if the Government bonds and the first-mortgage bonds 
had been enough to pay Ames what was stipulated on his contract, there 
would have been no capital stock of the company at all, except the 
limited amount that was first subscribed? — A. If they had been enough, 
the company would not have made any contract. 

Q. That is not answering my question. — A. We had to issue stock 
for the amount the road cost over and above the Government and first- 
mortgage bonds. 

Q. Now, Mr. Durant, I want to ask you a little more particularly as 
to when you were first informed of the general character of the route 
which was substantially that adopted through the Eocky Mountains, 
according to your best recollection. — A. In 1863. 

Q. That route was very much better than the route supposed to be 
practicable at the time of the original charter in 1862 ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You were first informed of that in 1863 ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. By whom ? — A. Before the company was organized, I sent out 
parties "of engineers, at my own expense, to survey the Cheyenne Pass 
and Timber Lake routes, and the route in Platte Valley. We did not 
go into estimates. They were reports as to the practicability of getting 
grades. 

Q. Did you see any of those engineers personally? — A. Yes, sir. 
Their reports were all" published and sent to Congress. They were sub- 
mitted to the board the day it organized. 

Q. You knew, then, of this improved route through the Rocky Moun- 
tains before the legislation of 1864 was obtained ? — A. I knew what was 
known eight years previous. I knew that that route was better than 
the one shown in the Government surveys, and I so reported it. I knew 
it was a practicable route. 

By Mr. Swann : 
Q. What amount was saved by this change in the route ? — A. It was 
not a question of saving 5 it was a question of practicability or imprac. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 93 

ticability. We simply found we bad an elevation we could run a railroad 
over ; that was what we were trying to get at. 

Q. What was the difference in the estimates of the. two roads'? — A. 
I never read the estimates. I never figured the estimates of that route, 
as it was reported impracticable by the Secretary of War at the time. 

Q. What is your opinion of the amount that Mr. Ames netted in his 
individual capacity by the approval of this contract ? — A. I can give 
you that from the book. 

Q. Can you not give it in round numbers? — A. No, I cannot. I would 
not recollect it if I heard it a dozen times. 

Q. You cannot say whether it was five, four, or three millions? — A. 
No, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. I will ask you if you know of any moneys that this railroad or the 
Credit Mobilier have used, either directly or indirectly, for the purpose 
of influencing or procuring the election of any person to the United 
States Senate °i — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know of any person connected with either of those corpo- 
rations at any time using money or furnishing money for that purpose ? 
— A. Not of the company's money. 

Q. Anybody's money % — A. I have furnished money for the election s 
myself. 

Q. When did you furnish it ? — A. That was my own money. 

Q. I am going to examine further about that. I want to know when 
you furnished that money ? — A. I have furnished money a good many 
times for elections. 

Q. I am speaking of elections of Senators. How many times have 
you furnished money for that purpose ? — A. I pay very little attention to 
politics. I do not know whether it was for Senators' election or not. I 
gave a check some five or six years ago to be sent to Senator Harlan. 
It was sent to some committee, but what it was for I do not know. 

Q. That was pendiug the senatorial contest there f — A. I do not know. 
Some of our parties were mixing up in politics, and I was very much 
annoyed at the time. I refused to do anything at first, but afterward 
furnished them money. 

Q. For what purpose did you furnish that money % — A. I could not 
tell you, for I even forget the committees whom I sent it to. Mr. Har- 
lan once said to me, "Are you never going to help us in our election V 
I said, " When you cannot do anything, I will do what I can." 

Q. What did you furnish ? — A. I gave two checks on different occa- 
sions, for $5,000 each, but it has been called to my mind by Mr. Crane 
that one was a subscription to some Methodist institution, and I believe 
now it was something of that kind. 

Mr. Crane. A Methodist college. 

The Witness. Perhaps so. 

Q. You furnished $5,000 ?— A. Yes, sir ; and probably $10,000. There 
was no concealment at all. I told the young men to send the check to 
Senator Harlan's order. I do not know but what he was chairman of a 
committee. 

Q. I want you to give me, as nearly as you can, the date of those 
transactions. — A. It was 18G5 or 18GG; "it was a year or two subsequent 
to the passage of the act. 

Q. Was Mr. Harlan at that time Secretary of the Interior? — A. I do 
not- recollect whether he was or not. 

Q. Do you recollect whether at the time you gave those checks he was 



94 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

a candidate for the Senate from the State of Iowa ? — A. I know -he was 
a candidate. I do not know whether he was at the time, or became one 
afterward. I think he was at the time. 

•Q. Were yon here when the bill was pending, growing ont of your 
contest with Fisk, when yon were seeking to move your office to Bos- 
ton ? — A. No, sir ; because I did not think there was any necessity for 
moving the office to Boston. 

Q. You did move your office to Boston ? — A. I know they did. These 
transactions must have been prior to that. 

Q. Where are those checks ? — A. I do not know. I presume I can 
find them. 

Q. Do you think you can find them ? — A. I presume so ; it was six or 
eight years ago. « 

Q. Where do you suppose they are f — A. They are probably boxed up 
somewhere. It was some time ago. They may have been destroyed. 

Q. Are there any books that will show the dates of those drafts f — A. 
I think I have them. 

Q. Where are those books ? — A. In New York somewhere. If they 
have not gone traveling, I can find them. 

By Mr. Swann : 
Q. They are in your bank-book, I presume ? — A. I suppose the checks 
came back from the bank. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. What bank was that ? — A. I cannot tell you. 

Q. Have you seen any copies of those checks at any time recently ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether Mr. McComb has copies of them % — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. Has he ever had access to them ? — A. No, sir. Anybody who 
looked over my check-book could have seen the memorandum on the 
margin of the book. 

Q. I will ask you the question whether these checks were not given, 
or one of them, for the purpose of aiding in the election of Mr. Harlan 
to the Senate of the United States? — A. I could not tell that. I gave 
them for campaign purposes ; for newspapers, documents, &c. 

Q. But was it not understood at the time you gave the check for 
$5,000, or the two checks, that they were to be used by him in further- 
ing his election to the Senate of the United States? — A. There was no 
understanding about it. I was in hopes he would get elected. I would 
have given more for that. I think, now, it was in 18C5 I gave those 
checks. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. You gave botti checks in the same year ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you remember the time of year 1 — A. I think it was in the sum- 
mer or fall. I know we were very busy at the time. I know I was an- 
noyed at our men going home to work for Kasson. I would have given 
twice as much to defeat Kasson as to elect anybody else. 

Q. Did you give anything to defeat Kasson f — A. I do not know 
what it was used for. Our people were inclined to go into politics, and 
I was opposed to it. I do not mean the Union Pacific road, but other 
roads I was engaged in. I had been in business in Iowa eighteen or 
twenty years. 

Q. Was that for the benefit of your road ? — A. I kept the road out of 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 95 

politics. I bad no idea there would be any legislation about the Pacific 
road. 

Q. To whose order were these checks made payable % — A. Mr. 
Harlan's. 

Q. Were they indorsed by him % — A. I do not remember. Of course 
they must have been. 

Q. Is there any entry on the books of the Union Pacific Railroad of 
these two checks ? — A. If there is any entry on the books of the Union 
Pacific Railroad of that kind, it was done for some purpose. The checks 
were my own checks* 

Q. I want to know if there is any entry of those checks, or of the 
money that was paid ont on them, on the books of the Union Pacific 
Railroad % — A. I do not know why there should be. 

Q. That is not answering the question. Is there any such eutry 2 — 
A. I do not know. I have never presented any account of them to the 
Union Pacific Railroad. 

Q. Has your attention ever been called to the alleged fact that there 
was any entry of the kind? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was it paid out of your own private funds ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Has it ever been re-imbnrsed to you from any source whatever? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you not answer yesterday, before the other committee, that 
you paid this money out for the purpose of electing Mr. Harlan Sen- 
ator % — A. It was paid out to Mr. Harlan as Senator. I understood the 
question to be whether I gave any money to any Senator to secure any 
election. I supposed it would be used for his own election. There was 
nothing said about it. 

Q. What was yoivr purpose in giving him the money; you say you 
supposed it would be used for his own election % — A. I would rather see 
the election carried for Harlan than anybody else. 

Q. Was that the understanding, that it was to be used for his elec- 
tion, when you gave him the check! — A. No, sir; I did not have that 
understanding. 

Q. Why did you suppose that it would be used to secure his own elec- 
tion ? — A. I supposed it would be natural. 

Q, He had an election pending then? — A. I suppose he had, but I 
am not positive. I had as much as I could attend to looking after other 
interests. 

Q. I do not care for those other matters. I want to know what was 
the purpose for which you gave him this money for this election. — A. 
For documents and electioneering purposes. 

Q. Electioneering purposes with reference to what? — A. There was 
nothing said about that, but I suppose it was at the time he was a can- 
didate. 

Q. You say there was nothing said to Mr. Harlan? — A. I did not see 
Mr. Harlan three minutes. 

Q. How did you happen to give him the checks f — A. I ordered one 
of the clerks to give him the checks. I went out. 

Q. Where was Mr. Harlan at that time ? — A. I cannot tell you. 
Q. You saw him three minutes % — A. I did not see him more than 
three minutes. 

Q. Where were you at the time you saw him these three minutes ? — 
A. I do not recollect. 

Q. Was it at the Interior Department ? — A. O, no, sir ; it was not in 
Washington. 

Q. Jn Iowa ? — A. No, sir; I think it was in New York. 



96 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Did he ask you for $10,000 ?-— A. No, sir. 

Q. What did he say to you? — A. He said to me something about — T 
do not recollect. Was he not chairman of some committee — general 
central republican committee ? 

Mr. Shell abargker. I really do not know. 

The Witness. He was speaking about the election and my interests 
out in Iowa. 

Q. You said you saw him only three minutes ? — A. This was before. 

Q. Did you send these checks by mail? — A. I cannot answer that. 
I was working eighteen hours a day then. If it was sent by mail, there 
will be a copy of the letter. 

By Mr. Sloctjm : 

Q. Mr. Durant, do you know what amount of stock was assigned to 
Mr. Ames to be "placed," as they call it here"? — A. The resolution as- 
signing it is in the books here. 

Q. How much was it? — A. I think somewhere in the neighborhood of 
three hundred shares — three hundred and fifty, I think. 

Q. Were you personally cognizant of that transaction when it was 
ordered ; were you present at that meeting of the board? — A. No, sir. 
I was not a member of that board. 

Q. That was done by the Credit Mobilier ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You were not present at the time? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You cannot testify about it except as shown by the books ? — A. No, 
sir. Mr. Ames reported that he had obligations out for stock, and they 
were calling on him for it, but never mentioned they were members of 
Congress. 1 had promises out for a large amount of stock, and claimed 
that all the stock in the treasury belonged to me. 

Adjourned to the 17th January. 



Washington, D. C, January 17, 1873. 

The committee met at 12 noon.' Present, all the members. 

Mr. Aaron F. Perry, one of the counsel appointed by the President to 
carry on the suit against the Pacific Railroad Companies, was also 
present, and participated in the proceedings. 

Examination of Thomas C. Durant continued. 
By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Question. In your statement yesterday, you said something in refer- 
ence to a suit having been commenced by you, one object of which was 
to recover certain stock put into the possession of Mr. Oakes Ames for 
certain purposes. Please state what those purposes were, and what the 
amount of that stock was. — Answer. The amount, I think, was some- 
where about three hundred shares. 

Q. Is there any book entry which will show the exact amount, and, if 
so, where is that entry ? — A.' There is a resolution, I think, on the Credit 
Mobilier books authorizing him to take the stock. 

Q.. Are those books here? — A. There are copies of them here. 

Q. State whether the object or purpose for which that transfer was 
made is anywhere expressed in writing, and, if so, where? — A. I think 
that some of the largest holders assented to the transfer in writing. 

Q. Please produce that writing. — A. I have not the writing j I was 
not then a director in the company. 

Q. That assent has not been made a matter of record in the books of 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 97 

the company ! — A. Not in the form of an assent ; there is a resolution, 
I think. 

Q. Now state what the object of that assignment of three hundred 
shares of stock to Mr. Ames vras. — A. To enable him to fulfill contracts 
which he claimed to have made previously, for delivering the stock ; 
and, the price having gone up, he wanted what stock was over in the 
treasury, or a portion of it. 

Q. At the time that that order was made to deliver him that stock, 
was there a report made to the corporation, or to any members of the 
corporation, as to who the persons were who were so entitled to that 
stock ? — A. None whatever. 

Q. Did Mr. Ames ever make a report either in writing or otherwise to 
the Credit Mobilier, or to any of its members, of what disposition he had 
made of that stock ? — A. I was not a director in the Credit Mobilier at 
the time, and if there had been such a report I would not have known 
it. • . 

Q. You know of no such report ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You stated yesterday, in substance, that you had heard recently 
that disposition was made of that stock which was not in accordance 
with the designs of its transfer. — A. I did not intend so to state.. 

Q. Eepeat your statement in that regard. — A. I intended to state 
that I understood recently that he had not transferred all the stock, 
and that he still owned it, and that if he sold the stock the money 
belonged to the corporation and not to him. 

Q. What amount of stock, so far as you know, or are informed, has 
he so held on to ? — A. I do not know ; I am on a voyage of discovery 
to find out what he has got. 

Q. And that is one purpose of your suit % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The purpose, then, of his obtaining it was to enable him to com- 
ply with actually existing contracts % — A. It was so understood at the 
time. 

Q. Was there any report made by Mr. Ames to the Credit Mobilier, 
or to any officer or member of that corporation, of what he had received 
for the stock which he did actually distribute % — A. I know of no such 
report. The corporation received from Mr. Ames par for the stock, in 
m oney . 

Q. Then the amount which Mr. Ames would be required to account 
for would be the difference between the par value and the actual value 
of the stock so given to him % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was that difference at the time of the alleged distribution f — 
A. I think about 100 per cent. 

Q. That is, 8100 in par was worth 8200 ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were there dividends allowed and paid by the Credit Mobilier to 
these persons to whom Mr. Ames did distribute that portion of the 
stock which he did in fact distribute, and did not hold on to ? — A. I 
think the stock stands in Mr. Ames's name, as trustee. It did at the 
time of the first dividend. 

Q. Did it draw the dividends as all the rest did ! — A. Yes, sir ; it 
drew dividends. 

Q. And that drawing applied to the whole three hundred shares J ? — 
A. Y^es, to whatever he had. Whatever stood in his name as trustee he 
took the dividends for. It was 313 shares. 

Q. You have already said that the value of that stock was 100 per 
cent, above par at the time of the distribution. Now state whether 
that 100 per cent, included the past dividends, or was the stock worth 

7 C 31 



98 CKED1T MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

that exclusive of any accumulated or due dividends? — A. It was worth 
that with the dividends on to January 3, 1868. 

Q. Then it would have been worth $200, if the purchaser would get 
the dividend of the 5th of January ? — A. Yes. 

Q. What per cent, was that dividend ?— A. I think the 2d of January 
dividends amounted to 80 per cent, stock in Union Pacific Eailroad, 
and 80 per cent, in bonds. Mr. Ames on his 93 shares received 80 
per cent, in stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad, and two dividends in 
first-mortgage bonds, making 80 per cent. 

Q. What was the value of the Union Pacific Eailroad stock at that 
period ? — A. I do not know of any sales. 

Q. What was the value of the bonds ? — A. Eighty-five to ninety. 

Q. Are you in possession of any information you can give to the com- 
mittee as to who the persons were to whom that stock was alleged to 
be due ? — A. I have no idea, only what I have gathered from the tes- 
timony as published. 

Q. You know nothing about it as having been ascertained at the 
time? — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Was there any report given to the public by authority annually, 
semi-annually, or at any other stated interval, of the profits made by the 
Credit Mobilier, or by the trustees under the Ames contract, or by any 
contractor? — A. Contractors are not in the habit of making reports to 
the public. 

Q. Be good enough to observe what the question is ; I ask whether 
there were in fact any such reports f— A. No, sir. 

Q. Where are the accounts which show how profits that were divided 
among these Credit Mobilier stockholders were made up?— A. In 
Boston. 

Q. In whose custody f — A. I think in the custody of Oliver Ames, 
chairman of the trustees. 

Q. You were not one of the seven trustees ? — A. I was one of them. 

Q. Suppose a person not one of the seven trustees had desired to 
know whether he was receiving on his Credit Mobilier stock, from the 
trustees, all that he was entitled to, how would he have known it ? — A. 
By access to the books ; they all had access to any books they wanted. 

Q. But was the fact of this dividend among the stockholders given 
to the public at the time in any form or way? — A. It was known to the 
stockholders. 

Q. Was it given to the public ? — A. It was not given to the public 
that I know of. 

Q. So far as you know, it was kept private among the stockholders 1 
— A. Yes ; private among the parties who participated iu the con- 
tract. 

Q. Did these books show the precise expenditure in the actual con- 
struction of the road, by the parties who made it? — A. To the dollar. 

Q. And the precise profit ? — A. To the dollar. 

By Mr. Perry : 

Q. You spoke of those profits being reported to the stockholders, and 
of the stockholders being at liberty to examine the books ; state whether 
there was a. report made, written or oral, to the meeting, or whether 
they ascertained it merely by access to the books?— A. Certainly. 

Q. I direct my inquiry to this alone, whether there was any written 
report made of them ? — A. Only the notice of dividends. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 99 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Was there any mode by which a stockholder in the Credit Mobilier 
could ascertain how much profit had been made by the Credit Mobilier, 
excepting by going through the books i — A. I suppose that every time 
there was a dividend made, there was a statement made up ; there must 
have been a statement made up from which the dividend was made ; a 
dividend would not be made unless there was a statement, showing the 
cost of the work, or what they had received for the work. 

Q. Do you know of any statement that was made out ? — A. It must 
have been made out; I think that would be one of the requirements ; 
these statements ought to be with the other papers. 

By Mr. Perry : 

Q. Your answer to me was, that the persons interested were notified 
that a dividend for a certain amount was ready for them. — A. State- 
ments were made out at that time, and they had access to them. 

Q. That was the only notice they got unless they examined the books ? 
— A. That was all. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. We are directed to inquire about this Congressmen business ; you 
may state whether you know any member of Congress who, as attorney 
or otherwise, was paid anything for services by the Credit Mobilier ? — 
A. I do not call to mind any now. 

Q. Do you know of any member of Congress who was employed as 
attorney for any stockholder of the Credit Mobilier in relation to the 
business pertaining to that corporation? — A. I employed Mr. Jen ekes, 
but I do not know whether he was a member of Congress at the time 
or not ; 1 employed him in some suits in Khode Island. 

Q. Any others ! — A. I do not call to mind any others. 

Q. Do you know of any member of Congress who was employed by 
any member of it in relation to the affairs of the corporation If — A. No, 
sir. General Butler came with Mr. Alley one time to attend to a stock 
holders' meeting, and acted as an attorney at a stockholders' meeting ; 
that was at the time of the Ames contract ; I think it was about the time 
the coatract was made — in October, 1867. 

Q. Was he attorney in any sense for the Credit Mobilier? — A. Not 
that I know of; I think he was present when that tripartite agreement 
was drawn up. 

Q. Did he draw it ? — A. I do not know how much of it he drew ; there 
were Mr. Tracy, Mr. Bell, and two or three other counsel there ; and I 
think that General Butler represented Mr. Alley and Mr. Oakes Ames» 

Q. He represented them in the preparation of that contract ? — A. Not 
in the contract, but in the tripartite agreement; he was there at the 
stockholders' meeting. 

Q. At this same time I — A. He must have been there a week. 

Q. Where?— A. In New York. 

Q. Was that tripartite agreement prepared in New York ? — A. It was 
prepared in New York. 

Q. Was it prepared about the date it bears ? — A. I think it was pre- 
pared about the very date — 15th of October, 1867. 

Q, Were you present at its preparation ? — A. Yes, sir ; I think the 
attorneys drew something near what they wanted, and, after the}' had 
got some general memoranda, they went into another office and had it 
put in shape. 

Q. What attorneys participated in making up the memoranda of the 
agreement ? — A. I think it was Charles Tracy and Clark Bell. I am 



100 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

not positive whether General Butler was present at first or not. He 
was about there at the time. 

Q. Then, after the terms were fixed upon and put in shape in memo- 
randa, the contract itself was drawn in another room ; is that right? — 
A. Yes ; the tripartite agreement. I think it was at Mr. Bell's office. 

Q. Did any member of Congress participate in the ultimate drawing 
up of the agreement % — A. I do not know. 

Q. When it came to be put into legal shape, did any member of Con- 
gress aid in putting it into legal shape % — A. I cannot say as to that. 

Q. Have you now told us all that you know in regard to any member 
of Congress having been connected with the business of the Credit Mo- 
bilier % 

The Witness. In what shape — as attorney % 

Mr. Shellabarger. As attorney or otherwise. 

A: I have, unless you refer to stockholders. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Were there any members of Congress who were stockholders in 
the Credit Mobilier I — A. There were. 

Q. Who were they ?— A. I cannot name them from memory, but this 
list in evidence, showing dividends, includes ail the stockholders of the 
Credit Mobilier. 

Q. State whether or not the Credit Mobilier or the Northern Pacific 
Eailroad Company, or any person connected therewith or interested 
therein, has furnished any money with a view to secure the election of 
any member of Congress. — A. The only case I recollect is the case I 
mentioned yesterday — the Harlan case, and that was an individual 
matter. 

Q. With reference to that case, I will ask you to whom you paid the 
$10,000 of which you spoke yesterday — the two drafts. — A. I paid them 
directly to Mr. Harlan. I did not know the names of the committee 
who were canvassing the State. I paid the money directly to Mr. Har- 
lan, and requested him to send it to them himself. 

Q. Do you mean by that that you delivered the draft into Mr. Har- 
lan's hands personally % — A. No ; I do not recollect that I did. 

Q. Did you send the draft to Mr. Harlan ?— A. I instructed «ome of 
the clerks at the office to attend to it. 

Q. What clerks ? — A. My private clerks. 

Q. Were those private clerks connected in any way with either ot 
those corporations as officers or clerks of the corporations % — A. I think 
Mr. Crane was assistant secretary and assistant treasurer of the Credit 
Mobilier at the time. I am not positive. 

Q. Was it Mr. Crane whom you instructed to send these drafts % — A. 
Very likely it was Mr. Crane who drew the check. 

Q. Was the check or draft payable to the order of Mr. Harlan ! — A. I 
presume it was. 

Q. How was that check or draft transmitted to him % — A. By mail. 

Q. Was it a check or draft on a New York bank % — A. It was a check 
on a New York bank. 

Q. On what bank % — A. I do not know : I kept several bank-accounts. 

Q. Will your bank-book show f— A. I think it will. I will look for it 
and furnish it to the committee. 

Q. Has the check been preserved 1 — A. I cannot say that it has. 
Checks are generally preserved until they pass the time for things being 
outlawed, and then we put them out of the way. 

Q. Yv^ould it have required Mr. Harlan's indorsement on the check to 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 101 

procure the money 1 — A. I presume so. We seldom give checks except 
to order. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. You have spoken of " we'" and " the office" in connection with 
this check. What do you mean by "we" and "the office!" — A. I 
was away most of the time, and I gave Mr. Crane a power of attorney 
to sign my name to checks, transfers of stock, and notes. When I say 
"we" I refer to Mr. Crane, for I do not know whether he did it or I did 
it. Sometimes he signed his own name to checks and sometimes my 
name, according to the bank they were drawn on. 

Q. What office do you refer to"? — A. My own private office. 

Q. Was your private office kept in the office of the Credit Mobilier, 
or the Union Pacific Kailroad office? — A. It was in the room adjoining. 

Q. Were these connecting rooms ?—A. Yes. 

Q. Did Mr. Crane at that time receive from you a compensation for 
services rendered to you in your private capacity ? — A. He did. 

Q. What was the character of Mr. Crane's employment by you ? — A. 
He had been my confidential man for fifteen years, and for ten years 
had had a power of attorney to sign checks. 

By the CHAIRMAN: 

Q. At what salary f — A. I do not recollect. He keeps my cash ac- 
count. 

Q. What salary was he getting from the Credit Mobilier ? — A. I do 
not know. 

Q. Who solicited this $10,000 from you? — A. It was given volun- 
tarily on my part for election purposes. It was in two checks of $5,000 
each. I cannot tell what time intervened between them. 

Q. You voluntarily sent them to Mr. Harlan, without any solicita- 
tion from any party ? — A. Previously to that Mr. Harlan had said to 
me, " Cannot you do something for the election in Iowa ?" I had been 
in Iowa for fifteen or twenty years, and had a large interest there. 

Q. What was your purpose in sending this $10,000 to Iowa ? — A. As 
a personal friend of Mr. Harlan's. 

Q. Was it your purpose to aid him by that means in being elected 
United States Senator "? — A. It was to aid in carrying the State elec- 
tion. I supposed that if he wanted to be elected to the Senate he would 
get the nomination if he could. I would have liked to see him elected 
United States Senator. 

Q. Was not that the motive? — A. I did not tell him so. It may have 
had some influence with me. 

Q. Was not that the leading motive that influenced you to do this 
thing, so far as you were concerned ? — A. I had large interests in Iowa, 
and they were rather crowding us there on some questions — our own 
party was. 

Q. What do you mean by " crowding F — A. I had some county bonds 
which I had had for some ten or fifteen years, and they were repu- 
diating them ; and there were a variety of other matters there on which 
some of the candidates for the legislature had been opposing us. We 
had even gone so far as to carry the matter into the United States 
courts, and had the commissioners arrested for not levying taxes to pay 
those bonds. There were considerably lively times there. These peo- 
ple who were opposing us lived on a rival line from ours. I do not 
mean rival to the Union Pacific road, but another road in which I was 
interested. 



102 CREDIT MOBILIEB AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. So your purpose was to influence Ms election in sending this 
$10,000?— A. Certainly. 

Q. Then, to come back to the question which I asked you, were you 
not prompted in sending that money by a desire to have Mr. Harlan 
elected to the Senate of the United States ? — A. I would like to have 
seen him elected, and I presume that had an influence on me. 

Q. Was that the leading motive?— A. Perhaps it was, except that I 
am a personal friend of Mr. Harlan's. 

Q. Was it not your intention by that means to aid in securing that 
election to the United States Senate and aid in carrying the State ? I 
would like to have a direct answer to the question. — A. That was one of 
the objects, undoubtedly. 

Q. Was not that the principal object ? — A. I cannot say that it was 
the principal one. I was seeking to defeat some other parties who were 
candidates for the legislature. 

Q. You did expect by that means to influence the election of a Sena- 
tor to the United States Senate ! — A. He could use it in that way if he 
chose. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. Was it before or after the election of members to the legislature? — 
A. It was at the time they were canvassing the State. I knew that Mr. 
Hoxie and some other parties were fighting Mr. Harlan, or rather were 
working for other parties, and I presume that that knowledge had some 
influence on me. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. The State of Iowa was a pretty strong republican State, was it 
not ? — A. It was republican, I believe. 

Q. Then there was no particular motive in sending that money to 
carry it for the republican party ? — A. It was to assist in local elections. 
I assisted in one case for republicans and in another case for democrats, 
in cities that were not far apart, simply to get good local men. 

Q. What were you driving at in that ? — A. I was trying to influence 
local elections — town elections. 

Q. Why did yon interest yourself in those local elections ? — A. I had 
a larger interest in that place than I had in New York. 

Q. Why did you want particular men elected to office 1 — A. I did not 
want any particular men elected. I wanted good men elected. I never 
named a candidate. My friends would come and say to me, "Here, we 
have got good men for candidates, and you must help some,' 7 and I 
would'help as far as I felt I was able. If we found candidates who 
were in favor of repudiating these bonds, no matter what political party 
or side they were on, we went against them. That was the principal 
thing that we looked out for, to compel these different counties to pay 
their bonds, which were ten years past due. 

Q. Can you tell me, now, what your main motive was in sending this 
$10,000 to Mr. Harlan?— A. I cannot answer any plainer than I have 
done. I desired to see him elected to the United States Senate. I sent 
it out of friendship to him. That was a larger motive than anything 
else. 

Q. You say you paid this money out of your private purse ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Did you ever claim to have that money refunded to you out of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company or Credit Mobilier ?— A. I never asked 
such a thing. 

Q. Did you ever present a claim to the officers of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company for expenses incurred by you on account of that road, 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. lOS 

or on account of legislative or executive action in Washington, with refer- 
ence to that road ? — A. I have made a claim against the company that 
was allowed for preliminary expenses. 

Q. What was the amount of that claim, and when did you make it 1 
— A. I made it at different times from 18G4. 

Q. Did you ever present at any time to the company a claim for a 
large amount of money, which you said you had expended in various 
ways in the interest of the road, and which the company declined to 
allow, but appointed a committee to investigate! — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was there never anything of that kind ? — A. I can explain that 
to you. There was an account of three or four hundred thousand dol- 
lars suspended, and it was audited by a committee and paid. Subse- 
quently to these negotiations, another board went over the books, and 
put what they called a. suspense-account in them, and charged a certain 
amount to me, two or three hundred thousand dollars. I then asked a 
committee to be appointed to audit that account, and a committee was 
appointed, consisting of Mr. Oliver Ames and Mr. Cisco, to see whether 
these moneys had been paid on proper vouchers. I have a copy of their 
report and everything here. These various sums were put in a suspense- 
account for the purpose of making all the preliminary expenses of the 
road to be distributed over the whole road instead of over the first- 
forty miles, to which they would otherwise have applied. 

Q. State whether there was any other account of that magnitude pre- 
sented by you than the account you have just spoken of? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You say there was a committee appointed to investigate that ac- 
count?— A. Yes, sir. 

(Witness produced copy of the account.) 

Q. Explain fully to the committee how this suspense-account arose. — 
A. It is made up of items that were paid from time to time. 

Q. We want to know the origin of this controversy. — A. I think the 
origin of this controversy came from a clause in the Hoxie contract. 
The men who had that contract had no means to go on with it, and 
there was a sum of $168,000 of their money back. The Credit Mobilier 
made a contract to assume it. At the close of the Hoxie contract the 
question came up as to this sum being charged back, and then came up 
the question of the suspense-account, as to how that sum should be dis- 
tributed in the accounts of the company. 

Q. What had you to do with that? — A. I had nothing to do with 
that. 

Q. But why did the company hold you in any way responsible 1 — A. 
That is what I never understood. But about that time we were get- 
ting into a little muss among ourselves. 

Q. What do you mean by a suspense-account ? — A. It is customary 
when a voucher is paid to have it charged against such and such an 
account; to have it charged against grading, or equipment, or some 
other account. Every item goes to its proper account. But here were 
items which were general expenses, and wmich could not be referred to 
any particular account. We did not want them to be charged to any 
particular portion of the road, but wanted to have them distributed 
over the whole road, and the account was held in suspense so as to 
have it properly distributed. 

Q. Then the items came into the general-expense account % — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Why did the company call upon you to account for this general- 
expense account, or any portion of it % Had any moneys been placed 



104 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

in your hands to be used on account of the general current expenses ? — 
A. No, sir ; nothing but what went into the vouchers. 

Q. What had you to do with it ? — A. I was the general agent of the 
company ; I was its vice-president, and had general management of the 
whole concern. 

Q. Who had paid out these moneys on the general- expense account ?— 
A. They were paid out by the treasurer. 

Q. Can you tell to whom they had been paid ?— A. They were paid 
to a great many people. 

Q. Had any portion of the money been paid to you I — A. No, sir ; 
except in cases where I had advanced the money. I had loaned to the 
company several hundred thousand dollars at that time. 

Q. Where you advanced money on account of the company, that 
portion of the general expenses went to you ? — A. Yes. 

Q.' Were there any moneys paid out by the treasurer or assistant 
treasurer on vouchers which were issued by you ? — A. If I paid the 
money and vouchers properly authenticated, the treasurer paid the 
money back to me. 

Q. Did you draw on the treasurer for any moneys at any time? — A. 
O, yes. 

Q. Did these moneys go to the general-expense account ? — A. Yes; 
with the vouchers. • 

Q. Then you say that out of that matter came this question of the 
suspended account ? — A. Yes ; when the company came to distribute 
the account. 

Q. Were they not calling upon you to show the account as to what 
this money had been paid out for, so far as you had had any connection 
in the matter? — A. Simply to show that I had paid it out on proper 
vouchers. 

Q. Then they were trying to get from you such a statement as would 
enable them to place the moneys that you had paid out to their proper 
accounts on the books? — A. I think that it was a matter of malice. 

Q. But that is what they professed to be attempting to do ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Did you meet with that committee and explain matters to them ? — 
A. Yes, and I looked up the vouchers on which the money had been 
paid. 

Q. Did you find all the vouchers ? — A. Yes ; I found vouchers for 
everything that was allowed. The committee allowed nothing for which 
the vouchers were not furnished. 

Q. Do you know the amount that they allowed ? — A. The amount 
allowed is shown by the account. 

Q. In settling these matters with this committee did you claim any- 
thing for which you did not produce the vouchers or receipts in some 
form or other? — A. I did not claim a thing but what I showed a voucher 
for. 

Q. Do you know where these vouchers are?— A. No; they may be 
gone traveling. 

Q. Do you suppose that these vouchers can be found? — A. I do not 
know ; they may be with the papers of the company. 

Q. State whether or not, in this connection, there were any amounts 
of money allowed or considered that were paid out in regard to matters 
of legislation, or to affect executive action in ,the city of Washington 
or elsewhere.- — A. No, sir. 

Q. None whatever ? — A. No ; none whatever. Some money was paid 
in employing attorneys to go on with me. I had three or four of them. 

Q. Did you bring attorneys to Washington ? — A. Yes. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 105 

Q. What were they here for ? — A. To draw the bill up ; to see what 
•was done ; to reconcile differences. 

Q. What bill do you refer to ! — A. The amending act of 1864. 

Q. Who were the attorneys whom you had here ? — A. Clark Bell, 
Mr. Sherman, J. B. Stewart, and Alexander Hay. We paid Mr. Bush- 
nell for bringing on several people here. 

Q. For that you had vouchers? — A. Yes, for all of them. 

Q. You state that there was no money at all paid for which you had 
no vouchers, and that none other entered into this account ? — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. Why had you not returned those vouchers before that time % — A. 
Those vouchers had been settled two years before that time and the 
items had gone up to another account. 

Q. Were the vouchers in the office of the Union Pacific Bailroad 
Company at that time? — A. They were. 

Q. Then what was the necessity for that committee ! — A. A new board 
of directors wanted to know what had been going on. 

Q. They had the evidence right in the office ? — A. Yes ; but they did 
not know where to look for it in such, a mass of papers. The Hoxie 
contract provided that $168,000 should be carried until the work was 
done. 

Q. Do you know a man by the name of J. B. Stewart ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Did he get any of this money ? — A . Yes. 

Q. How much % — A. I do not know how much. 

Q. About how much ? — A. I think J. B. Stewart got one or two hun- 
dred thousand dollars, and maybe more. 

Q. What services was he rendering to the company in that behalf? — 
— A. He was arranging difficulties between the Leavenworth and 
Pawnee Bailroad and the Union Pacific Bailroad. 

Q. Where does J. B. Stewart live % — A. In Washington. Alexander 
Hay also got seventy-five or a hundred or one hundred and fifty thou- 
sand dollars ; I do not know how much. 

Q. Both these gentlemen were acting for the committee ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Were they lawyers by profession I — A. Yes ; they are both lawyers 
by profession. 

Q. Were they not lobbying around Congress? — A. I do not know what 
you would term lobbying. They were about here. They were not au- 
thorized to use one dollar to influence legislation, and I do not think 
they ever did, directly or indirectly. 

Q. Those two men were here working in the interest of what com- 
pany ? — A. In the interest of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company. 

Q. What services did they render to the company ? Did they draw 
any contracts 2 — A. They drew many contracts and settled many claims 
that were in our way. In order to get the bill passed, we had to settle 
the claims of the Leavenworth and Pawnee Company. I recollect one 
instance where Thaddeus Stevens, who was the chairman of the Pacific 
Bailroad Committee, insisted upon the section in the bill that would 
compel the presidents of the companies to make affidavit before receiv- 
ing any Government bonds that the companies were out of debt. Fin- 
ally I came to Mr. Stevens's house with Mr. Hay % and Mr. Stevens ex- 
plained that the affairs of the Leavenworth and Pawnee Company were 
in sucli a condition that it was questionable in his mind whether the 
debts which they had contracted would not be liens upon the road 
ahead of the Government liens ; and he would not consent to put any- 
thing in the bill that would enable us to get the Government bonds so 
long as there was the least shadow of doubt as to the Government; 



106 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

being secure. He recommended us to arrange our affairs among our- 
selves, so that everything might be all clear. 

Q. Who is Mr. Hay ?. — A. I think he lives in Providence, Khode 
Island. I think he is in the city now. , 

Q. How long were those men engaged in this business before you 
finally got it closed up? — A. I think they were engaged six or seven 
months here, and four or five months afterward. 

Q. Then they were engaged in all about a year ? — A. Yes ; as much 
as that. 

Q. How much money did Mr. Stewart receive ? — A. I cannot say. I 
should think between two and three thousand dollars. 

Q. Did you pay him that money for his services in that behalf? — A. 
Yes ; and for arranging with these other corporations. 

Q. Was Mr. Stewart arranging money-claims between these corpora- 
tions? — A. Yes, sir. 

• Q. When he arranged a money-claim between these two corporations, 
did you put the money into his hands to pay it % — A. I gave him the 
money to pay it. 

Q. Why did you not pay it yourself? — A. I did not see the parties at 
all. Sometimes they would come ,with claims that they had a large 
amount of stock in the Leavenworth and Pawnee Company, and they 
had the idea that the road was to go through the Indian lands, which 
were immensely valuable. They claimed also that they had a right to 
go through the lands of the Northern Pacific Railroad Company, and 
they would not withdraw their objection to the bill that was pending 
until we made arrangements with them. 

Q. How much did Mr. Hay get ? — A. I do not know. I think over 
$100,000. 

Q. Did he use it in the same way ? — A. Yes ; he and Mr. Stewart 
used the money for the same purpose. In some instances they had to 
buy stock of this Leavenworth and Pawnee Railroad. 

Q. When they had arranged claims and paid them, did they take 
vouchers for the moneys they had paid ? — A. They rendered the bills to 
me. 

Q. Did they take vouchers for the money which they had paid ? — A. 
I would authorize Mr. Stewart to arrange with these parties for so much 
money, or so much less than the amount I would fix as they would take. 
When he had accomplished the arrangement he would render me the 
bill. 

Q. Did you give him the money and paid these claims ? — A. I gave 
the money to him. 

Q. Did he take vouchers when he paid over the money? — A. I do not 
know as to that. 

Q. Then you do not know whether the claims were ever settled or 
not?— A. O, yes. 

Q. You do not know whether those parties received any money ? — A. 
I know that some of them did. 

Q. No voucher was ever returned to you by Stewart or Hay, showing 
that they had paid over the money ? — A. I think there were vouchers 
returned in some instances, but I do not recollect about them. 

Q. Were those vouchers which came through the hands of Hay and 
Stewart returned to the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? s office ? — A. 
All the vouchers that I had were submitted to the committee, and ap- 
proved and paid, at a time long before this suspense-account was inves- 
tigated. 

Q. I find here, at the beginning of this suspense-account, an item of 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 107 

$44,549.45 on the 1st of August, 1864. Can you tell what that was for ! — 
A. That was probably made up of a good many items. The vouchers 
were all approved. 

Q. Was it your vouchers that were returned ? — A. The vouchers on 
which the money was paid. 

Q. When you paid money over to Stewart and Hay, what vouchers 
had you ! — A. I think they were drafts on me. 

Q. Did you get any receipt 1 — A. The draft was the receipt. 

Q. I find in this account only one item to Alexander Hay of $4,000, 
and I find no item charged to Stewart at all. — A. In taking the accounts 
they would just charge them to me. 

Q. Why would they charge them to you I — A. Because the money was 
paid upon vouchers that I furnished. I advanced the money ; the com- 
pany had not funds, and I had to advance the money, and I. returned 
the vouchers to the company. The reason why Mr. Stewart's name does 
not appear there is that I gave him drafts. He had one draft for $60,000. 
Probably the last installment of the draft to Mr. Hay was paid at the 
office, and that may account for the $4,000 being charged to him directly. 

Q. I find one item here on December 29th, 1865, of $112,000, charged 
to T. C. Durant. Do you know what-that was for? — A. Yes; that was 
on an agreement made with these other parties in regard to bonds. The 
agreement which Stewart made was with the Leavenworth and Pawnee 
Kailroad Company ; it was for $200,000 worth of bonds, but the amount 
was not to be paid until some two or three hundred miles of the road 
was completed. At the time we made these contracts I did not like 
these obligations to be out, and I found that I could take up that agree- 
ment by allowing the friends of the Leavenworth and Pawnee Road 
$120,000 of their own first-mortgage bonds. I bought the bonds and 
settled the item in that way. 

Q. And this item of $112,000 is all on that account! — A. Yes. 

Q. On the 30th of March, 1866, there is an item of $50,000, " Special 
Committee ; ,? on what account is that ? — A. That was on the same ac- 
count. 

Q. What was it tor ? — A. In settlement of the same thing. Some of 
this was really payable in the thirty per cent, stock of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company. 

Q. There is another item, on May 10th, charged to Special Committee ; 
what is that for ? — A. They were all on the same account. I always 
called these " Special Committee" accounts. 

Q. Was that not a sort of aggregation of money paid out in one way 
and another ? — A. Yes, it is an aggregation of preliminary expenses. 

Q. Had there not been a great deal of controversy about these things 
before this resolution was adopted ? — A. Not at all. It was brought up 
for the committee to examine. I said to the board of directors, " You 
can go back and examine what was done three or four years ago ; I have 
no objections to your appointing a committee." The only men whom 
I knew to be very anxious about it were Mr. Alley and Mr. Ames. 1 
asked Mr. Ames what he wanted by going over these accounts again. 
He said he wanted to know what members of Congress had been paid. 
I asked him what did he want to know that for — that I was not in the 
habit of paying members of Congress. He said that if I had paid mem- 
bers of Congress, he wanted to make them do what they had'promised. 

Q. What was the date of that conversation with Mr. Ames ! — A. That 
was at the time that they were pressing the examination of these 
accounts. 



108 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Before this matter was investigated % — A. Before it was investi- 
gated the second time. 

Q. Bepeat that statement by Mr. Ames. — A. He was asking about 
the items of these accounts. 

Q. And what did you say to him % — A. I said that they had been 
examined by a previous board and settled ; that they had been passed 
upon and paid up. He said he wanted to see what they were paid for. 
I said, " Whfit do you want to find out about f He said, " I want to find 
out if you paid any member of Congress.' 7 I said, " What do you want 
to know that for?" He said, " To make them pay back if they do not 
go straight," or something of that kind. I do not suppose that he 
meant it in earnest. 

By Mr. SWANN : 

Q. What did he mean by the remark, "If they do not go straight V 1 — 
A. I suppose it was a mere jocular remark. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. When was this? — A. Prior to this examination. 

Q. How long prior to it ? — A. It, may have been three months or six 
months. 

Q. W T hat was the date of the examination % — A. The resolution 
appointing this committee to make the investigation was adopted on the 
4th of January, 1867. 

Q. Was the conversation of Mr. Ames prior to that date ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. How long prior ? — A. I cannot say. 

Q. Do you mean that it was within a few months, or a few weeks 
prior ? — A. Within a few months. 

Q. So that before this resolution was adopted, there was controversy 
about this matter 1 — A. O, yes. 

Q. And somebody was calling on you for an explanation ?— A. Yes. 

Q. I will read this resolution to you as a part of the question : 

" Resolved, That Oliver Ames, president pro tern., and John J. Cisco, 
treasurer, be a committee to inform themselves in regard to the details 
of the so-called suspense-account of this company ; also, to audit any fur- 
ther claims on this account ; and that their statement to this board, that 
the facts in the premises are satisfactory to them, shall end all further 
discussion, and that the accounts shall be closed and charged to con- 
struction. n 

I ask you to state if there was any special reason why that resolution 
was put in that particular form ; and if so, what it was. — A. I do not 
know 5 they had their own ideas about it ; but I do not know what they 
were. 

Q. But there was discussion there ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Why was it provided in that resolution that the statement of 
these two committee-men to the board, that the facts in the premises 
were satisfactory to them, should be final ! Why was it put in those 
terms 1 — A. Probably to cover the authority for payment. Some of the 
stockholders might raise a question whether we had a right to do any- 
thing but build our own railroad. We were in negotiation between rival 
roads. 

Q. If there were vouchers there showing on what account the moneys 
had been paid, what was the necessity for such resolution as that?— A. 
With the mass of papers that had accumulated for four years, it would 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 109 

be great trouble to find vouchers, unless they were put away for a special 
purpose. 

Q. Were there any larger number of vouchers than there were items 
in the accounts ? — A. O, yes. 

Q. Do you know any reason why all the vouchers were not itemized 
in the account % — A. Simply because they took the check, which may 
have been paid for a dozen vouchers at the time. That account is 
simply the date when the check was given to me. 

Q. State, according to your best knowledge, information^ and belief, 
whether or not those two checks that have been spoken of as having 
been sent to Senator Harlan are embraced in any way in this account? — 
A. They are not embraced in this account. 

Q. Were they ever embraced in any other account that was ren- 
dered.? — A. They were not. 

Q. Were they brought before that committee, and rejected by it? — A, 
[No, sir. I was asked a question about these checks, and I told them 
that they were my own private money, and that I did not present them 
for payment. I was asked whether my account embraced those checks, 

Q. Who asked you that question % — A. Some member of the commit- 
tee. If I had presented the checks they would, probably have allowed 
them. I said, "No; I have no claim to present, for those checks are 
mine." 

Q. How did that committee know anything about those checks ; how 
did they find out that you had paid out of your own private resources 
$10,000 to Senator Harlan ? — A. I do not know; they appeared to know 
it. It was no secret in the office at all. 

Q. Were the members of this Credit Mobilier in the habit of inspect- 
ing your private bank-accounts ; did they have access to your private 
business ? — A. [No, sir. 

Q. Then how did it happen that they knew of those two drafts for 
^5,000 each % — A. I do not know. It had been talked of before them, I 
suppose. I think that Mr. Alley, or somebody, saw Mr. Crane drawing 
the checks. 

Q.vDid they call upon you then to know whether or not you had em- 
braced those checks in your account? — A. I think I showed the checks, 
and I said, " Gentlemen, anything I have done in that way I have done 
myself, and I do not ask you to pay it." I recollect saying that in the 
committee-room. 

Q. Did they make inquiries of you with reference to these two checks 
at the time that this account was stated ? — A. I do not recollect that 
they did. 

Q. Jt was talked about \ — A. I spoke of it myself. I recollect saying 
that I did not charge for anything which might be regarded as paying 
for influence. 

Q. And you think you showed the checks at that time ? — A. I think 
I showed the checks ; there was no secret about these* checks at all. 

Q. Why should that matter have come up, when you were simply 
settling an account for which vouchers had already been filed in the 
office? — A. I do not know, except that it came up in general conversa- 
tion. 

By Mr. SHELLABARGER : 

^ Q. The vouchers covered everything in the account ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then how could the question have been properly asked, whether 
the checks were in the account, when you had already vouchers, that 
covered everything ? — A. I think these checks were in 1865. 



110 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. That must have been before that account, or else they could not 
have been talked of? — A. Yes. 

Q. State whether, at the time you gave those checks, Mr. Harlan was 
Secretary of the Interior ? — A. He was Secretary of the Interior, but 
whether he was so then or not I do not know. I had not been in Wash- 
ington for some time before. 

Q. I hold in my hand what seems to be part of a record in the Su- 
preme Court of Ehode Island, in which Isaac P. Hazard and others were 
plaintiffs, and T. 0. Durant and others defendants. What was the claim 
in the bill in that case against you ? — A. I do not know. They claimed 
all these moneys in that bill. 

Q. The moneys in the suspense-account? — A. Yes, and everything 
else, I guess. 

Q. The object of the suit was to compel you to account for certain 
moneys which they claimed you had failed to account for ? — A. That 
suit was not by the directors, but by the stockholders, and they made 
the affidavit on information and belief. 

Q. The question is, what was the object of the prayer of the bill in 
chancery which I have named to you in this case ? What did it ask you 
to account for 1 — A. To account for all the items of money in the bill. 
I never went through it myself, and cannot tell what they are. 

Q. And that includes what is called in this record the suspense-ac- 
count ?— A. Yes. 

Q. I find under the head of statement of suspense-account a footing 
up of $435,754.21, and in that aggregate are included those items to 
which your attention has been called by the chairman ; one of them 
'$112,000, and various other items of large amounts. Now, the question 
I desire to ask you is, whether you exhibited to the parties in interest 
adverse to you vouchers in writing which covered all the moneys, and 
accounted for all the moneys which they sought to charge you with in 
this matter ? — A. I exhibited vouchers to the committee that was ap- 
pointed. 

Q. Written vouchers ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did those written vouchers all purport to be vouchers from third 
persons, or was part of them your own statement of payments made by 
you? — A. I think that they were all written vouchers, with the excep- 
tion of my bill for traveling expenses, amounting to two or three thou- 
sand dollars perhaps. 

Q. Then your answer is that everything thus charged against you 
here was accounted for by you, by vouchers from third persons, except- 
ing only certain traveling expenses of yours which were accounted for by 
you on your own statement? — A. Yes, and money paid to third persons. 

Q. Then there was a portion of this account for money paid to third 
persons, for which you produced no receipt ? — A. I produced their draft 
or receipt. 

Q. Then there was no money paid to third persons for which you did 
not produce drafts or receipts, or some paper from third persons, show- 
ing that you had honestly paid the money ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. The only exception to that is, that there were certain traveling 
expenses, for which you presented your own statement ? — A. That is my 
recollection. 

Q. So that everything was accounted for by you in one or other of 

those two ways, either by papers from third persons A. Or bills 

of my own in writing. 

Q. And those bills only included your own personal expenses ? — A. 
Only my own personal expenses. There were no bills for salaries. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. Ill 

Q. Was there anything in that account which you presented, and for 
which no papers from third persons were presented, except your mere 
traveling expenses ? — A. I think there was nothing else. 

Q. There were no moneys paid to third persons for which receipts or 
vouchers of some sort were not produced? — A. No, sir. They were 
produced in the form of bills or drafts. 

Q. If that were true, this dispute could have been settled by a simple 
inspection of papers, except only as to your traveling expenses. Is not 
that so ? — A. It was settled in that way. 

Q. Why, then, any serious dispute about your account, provided you 
producedpapers showing that you had paid the several items charged ? — 
A. Because some of these bills from Mr. Stewart and Mr. Hay were 
pretty large and some of the new directors wanted to get the details, 
which I could not always give them. 

Q. Then these receipts which you produced from third persons were 
sometimes statements of your sub-agents or employes, for moneys which 
they had disbursed ? — A. Yes, the majority of them were. 

Q. Were these vouchers accompanied by other vouchers, showing 
that these agents had properly paid out the money? — A. I cannot answer 
as to that. 

Q. Can you tell the committee whether those moneys that were dis- 
bursed by these men were not, some of them at least, disbursed for the 
purpose of procuring or influencing legislation? — A. I do not believe 
there was a dollar. 

Q. Can you swear to the committee that these men did not disburse 
portions of this money for the purpose of influencing legislation? — A, 
Not a dollar, to my knowledge. 

Q. Have you any knowledge on the subject ? — A. They reported ver- 
bally what they were doing. 

Q. Did they report to you and show you places where that moiaey 
was all legitimately expended, and not for the purpose of corrupting 
legislation? — A. The gentlemen are here and can speak for themselves; 
I was satisfied at the time that they did not use any money for that 
purpose. 

Q. Did they present to you at any time such papers or other evidence 
as satisfied you that this money was all expended by them legitimately? — 
A. They might cheat me on some things, but I do not think they did. 

Q. The question is whether they presented to you such papers and 
showed you that the money had been legitimately expended, and that 
none of it had gone for the purpose of corrupting legislation or the 
executive officers of the Government? — A. They presented me such 
accounts as I was satisfied with at the time. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Did those gentlemen give you a single written voucher of their 
expenditures? — A. They did. 

Q. Where are those vouchers now ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. Did you put those vouchers into the possession of the Union Pa- 
cific Railroad Company ? — A. I think so ; they were in the office. 

Q. Did they give you vouchers for the full amount of their expendi- 
tures ? — A. No ; they only gave me their own vouchers ; they did not 
give me vouchers in all instances from the parties whom they paid. 

Q. What did you say was the entire amount that they expended? — 
A. Two or three hundred thousand dollars. 

Q, By whose direction or procurement were those gentlemen em- 
ployed ? — A. By mine. 



112 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD, 

Q. Entirely?— A. Yes. 

Q. Did you know thein personally before? — A. I do not know bow 
long before ; I think they were introduced to me by Mr. Bell. 

Q. Is that all the knowledge you had of them ? — A. I cannot say how 
long I had known them. 

Q. How came you to employ counsel resident at Washington, for the 
purpose of dealing with those northwestern railroads ? — A. Because all 
the parties were here. I bought one-third interest in the road before I 
could accomplish what I wanted, and I think I expended nearly $500,000. 
All the parties were from Kansas. 

Q. And you employed a lawyer in Washington to whom you had been 
once introduced ¥ — A. Yes. I was here seven months with them my- 
self. 

Q. I ask you again if you received from this gentleman a single 
written voucher of expenditures ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you receive vouchers for the full amount he expended ? — A. I 
received vouchers for the amount. Sometimes the vouchers were in 
Leavenworth and Pawnee stock. 

Q. Where are those vouchers now % — A. I think they are with the 
other paper. 

.Q. Did he bring you the receipts of persons to whom he had paid out 
that money % — A. No, only in a few instances ; for most of them I took 
his own voucher. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Had the company regularly appointed attorneys who were doing 
its business? — A. Yes, sir. Mr. Bell was here with me. 

Q. How long after you were first introduced to these two men, whom 
you have named, was it before you employed them in this matter ?•— A.. 
I think I had seen Mr. Stewart two or three months before. 

Q. Had you ever known them as lawyers before the time when Mr. 
Bell introduced them to you % — A. I knew of them as lawyers. 

Q. Where are the offices of these attorneys % — A. Mr. Stewart has an 
office in this city and one in New York also. 

Q. Where is Mr. Hay's office % — A. I do not know whether Mr. Hay 
has an office in Now York or not. He was a lawyer in those Goodyear 
India-rubber suits. 

Q. Was it the settlements of accounts that these men were engaged 
in, on account of which you paid this large amount of money % — A. They 
can explain that better than I can. That Leavenworth and Pawnee 
road had been first in the hands of Sloan and then got into the hands 
of General Fremont, and there were several claims and obligations and 
suits commenced that might be ahead of the Government bonds as 
liens upon the road, and we were obliged to get these out of the ay ay. 
I know that I paid for that purpose iust about one-fourth what I sup- 
posed I should Jiave to pay. 

Q. Who were the individuals with whom Hay and Stewart were deal- 
ing in making these settlements and arrangements % — A. Samuel Hal- 
lett was here. He is dead now. I do not know who represented Mr. 
Fremont. I think there were other attorneys also paid. I think we 
paid Mr. Stanton and Mr. Latham. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. You have been asked whether any money was ever paid to influence 
legislation or executive action by the" Credit Mobiller, or by any of its 
officers or stockholders. I now ask you whether you know of any being 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 113 

paid by the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, or any of its officers or 
stockholders ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Did you ever go to Washington with Mr. James Brooks to aid in 
getting him appointed Government director of the Union Pacific Kail- 
road Company ? — A. No ; I do not think I ever did. I do not think I 
came myself. 

Q. Who did come instead of you? — A. No one that I know of. I 
suggested that we ought to have one democrat on the board. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. Do you know one Andrew J. Poppletou, of the State of Nebraska ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know of his having been a candidate for Congress ?— A. I 
do not. 

Q. Did you never hear of his running against the present member 
from Nebraska, Mr. Taife?— A. I do not know that I did. 

Q. Has he not been in the employment of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company out there % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How long was he in the employ of that company ? — A. I think 
the company employed him as an attorney to look alter land matters 
and right of way in 1864. 

Q. And how long has he continued in their employment? — A. I do 
not know ; I have not had anything to do with the company since 1869. 

Q. Did he continue up to 1869 ! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any money being furnished to him by the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company or by the Credit Mobilier, or by anybody 
connected with those companies, for the purpose of aiding him in the 
race for Congress? — A. I do not know of a dollar. 

Q. You never furnished him with any yourself? — A. I never furnished 
him any myself, and there was never any furnished to him by my orders. 

Q. You were asked a while ago whether or not any member of Con- 
gress was employed as an attorney for the Credit Mobilier, and you 
answered that General Butler was there on one occasion. Do you know 
of any other member of Congress ever having been employed as an 
attorney of that company? — A. I do not recollect any. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. It has been stated that General Butler was engaged as counsel of 
the Credit Mobilier, at an annual salary of $6,000. — A. That is the first 
I ever heard of it. 

Q. Then it is not true? — A. Not to my knowledge ; but I have had 
nothing to do with the Credit Mobilier since 1867. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You were examined yesterday in reference to the Hoxie contract 
and the Ames contract ; and you spoke also of the Davis contract. 
State at what point on the road the Ames contract began. — A. At the 
hundredth meridian, between 246 and 247 miles from Omaha. 

Q. And extended westward how far ? — A. Six hundred and sixty- 
seven miles. 

Q. At the time that contract was entered into, how much of that 
road had been constructed west of the hundredth meridian ? — A. On 
the 16th of August, 1867,' the day the resolution was passed by the 
board, authorizing the contract to be made with Oakes Ahies, there had 
been 188 miles constructed. 

Q. What was the date of the assignment of the contract to the trus- 
tees of the Credit Mobilier ? — A. It was on the 16th of October, 1867. 
8 c M 



1.14 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILEOAD. 

Q. How many miles of road had then been completed west of the 
hundredth meridian ? — A. Two hundred and thirty-eight miles. 

Q. Then the Ames contract covered 238 miles of road that had been 
already constructed ? — A. It assumed the existence of all contracts. 

Q. What was the purpose of giving Mr. Ames a contract to build a 
road which had already been built ? — A. If he had not taken from the 
hundredth meridian west, including the light work, he would have 
demanded a higher price for the heavy work. This 238 miles was pretty 
easy work, and it was averaged all the way through that it would take 
so much to build the road. 

Q. But what necessity was there for letting the contract and building 
a road which had been already built? Why did not the company at once 
let the contract for road which had not been constructed ? — A. There was 
a variety of reasons — among others that the stockholders of the Credit 
Mobilier had increased their capital, and loaned to the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company in anticipation of getting the contract, and they demanded 
that they should have some interest in the contract. 

Q. Had any profits been made on the construction of those 238 miles 
of road west of the hundredth meridian at the time the Ames contract 
was made ? — A. I have no statement to show that there had been. I do 
not know that there had been. 

Q. Had that 238 miles been paid for by the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company?— A. It had been paid for at its cost. 

Q. What was that cost? — A. A portion of it was built very cheaply — 
at about $27,500 a mile, including the equipment. 

Q. And the balance of it — what did it cost? — A. I cannot tell. 

Q. Can you not give the whole cost of these 238 miles ? — A. No 5 I 
have no figures. 

Q. When you let the Ames contract you let it at a greater price than 
these 238 miles had already cost ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. At the times of the Ames contract did you know what these 238 
miles had cost ? — A. W T e could not tell the precise cost then, because it 
was in Nebraska, and it took thirty days to get reports from there. 

Q. Did you know about what it cost ? — A. Yes, sir ; about. 

Q. Then, when you made the Ames contract and extended it over 
these 238 miles, why did you make it for more than the work had 
actually cost ? — A. The price paid Mr. Ames was more than the actual 
cost. 

Q. How much more on this 238 miles ? — A. I should think two or 
three million dollars. 

Q. Give your nearest estimate. — A. I should say from two and one- 
half to three million dollars. 

Q. Then, if I understand you, you gave Mr. Ames a contract for the 
construction of 238 miles of road, at a cost to the Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany of between two and a half and three million dollars more than the 
work had actually cost? — A. Yes; for that portion of it. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. At the time that the Ames contract was made, do I understand 
that this portion of the road had been built, paid for, and was the prop- 
erty of the company, without further obligation to anybody ? — A. Yes, 
sir ; I think most of it had been accepted by the Government ; but the 
Pacific Railroad Company was owing some money upon it. 

Q. When they put that 238 miles into the Ames contract, at a price 
several million dollars above its cost, as a road to be built, it had 
already been built, paid for, and was the property of the company, with- 



CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 115 

out further obligation fco anybody. Is that the fact ? — A. I cannot say 
that it had been all paid for ; the company was probably owing the con- % 
tractor something. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. At all events the obligations of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany for the construction of the road were increased between two and 
one-half and three millions of dollars by the Ames contract? — A. Yes, 
sir ; on that portion of the road. 

Q. At that time cars were running over it regularly? — A. Not regu- 
larly; they were running construction- trains over it. 

Q. Before this Ames contract was made the Credit Mobilier had already 
declared two dividends of 6 per cent., or one dividend of 12 per cent, for 
the two years ? — A. Yes, sir ; I think so. 

Q. These 238 miles of road had been built under the auspices of the 
Credit Mobilier before the Ames contract, had it not? — A. No ; it was 
built by the Union Pacific Railroad Company under the Boomer contract, 
a great portion of it; then the Union Pacific Railroad Company assumed 
it themselves. 

Q. So that it really belonged to the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
at the time the Ames contract was made? — A. Only about 100 miles 
of it was; the Union Pacific Railroad Company passed a resolution 
authorizing the officers of the company to go on as fast as possible,, 
making all their contracts subject to any future general contract that 
should be given. 

Q. Then the Union Pacific Railroad Company completed these 238- 
miles under its own auspices ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the Credit Mobilier had no interest in it up to the time the 
Ames contract was made; is that so? — A. No; it had no interest in 
the contract ; it claimed that it had ; but the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company claimed that it had not. 

Q. After the Credit Mobilier declared that dividend of 12 per cent.,. 
what was its stock worth, up to the time the Ames contract was made '?■ — 
A. I should think from 85 to 95. 

Q. What assets had the Credit Mobilier after that dividend of 12 per 
cent, was so paid ? — A. I am not positive ; I was not in the direction at 
that time; but I think it had eight hundred or one thousand acres of 
land near Council Bluffs. It had some Union Pacific Railroad stock, and 
it had claims against the Union Pacific Railroad Company for nearly two 
millions of dollars. I think that was all its assets. 

Q. The Ames contract was transferred to the trustees of the stock- 
holders of the Credit Mobilier on the 15th of October, 186T. From what 
source did the Credit Mobilier derive its means to make the dividend 
which was declared on the 12th of December, 1867 ? — A.. The Credit 
Mobilier made no dividend then ; it was a dividend made by the trustees 
from the profits of the portion of the road completed to January, 1868. 

Q. These trustees never had existence as trustees until the Oakes 
Ames contract was transferred to them? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Then their existence began on the 15th October, 1867 ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. And on the 12th of December, 1867, these seven trustees declared 
a dividend to the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier, which has been 
already given in evidence? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That was a little less than two months after they took the assign- 
ment of that contract ? — A. Yes, sir. 



116 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Prior to the 15th of October, 1867, these trustees had no assets 
out of which to declare dividends ? — A. The trustees had no assets. 

Q. Then, from what source did they get this Union Pacific Eailroad 
stock and these first-mortgage bonds, out of which to declare their divi- 
dends ? — A. The contract assigned assumed all existing contracts on 
the road and all liabilities of the company, and it gave them the profits 
that had been earned on the construction from October, 1866, to Decem- 
ber, 1867, as embracing the portion of the road which was constructed 
at that time. 

Q. To strip this thing of all verbiage and circumlocution, is it not the 
fact that the difference between what these 238 miles had cost the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company and the amount which it was let for under 
the Oakes Ames contract composed the assets out of which this dividend 
was declared ? — A. It did, certainly. 

Q. You call it profits ; is it not just simply the increased price that 
was paid under the Oakes Ames contract over the cost of construction? 
— A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Suppose that contract had not been made, the property that was 
then divided would have remained the property of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company, would it not? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. So that the first thing that these trustees proceeded to do after 
they were organized was to take what property the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company had on hand and divide it among the stockholders of 
the Credit Mobilier as their first act, did they not ?— A. Yes, sir, to 
answer the question directly ; but it strikes me as hardly fair to the 
company to stop there. AsT said before, Mr. Ames never would have 
got the contract for that 217 miles only as he took the contract beyond, 
where we were doubtful about succeeding. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. The dividend that was paid was declared on the 12th of Decem- 
ber, 1867, two days less than two months from the time the trusteeship 
was created. That dividend was 60 per cent, in the first-mortgage 
bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company and 60 per cent, in the 
stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, was it not ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. The capital stock of the Credit Mobilier was then $3,750,000?— A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. The aggregate of the dividends declared on that occasion was 
$2,250,000 in first-mortgage bonds and $2,250,000 in the Union Pacific 
Eailroad stock. These bonds and this stock, thus divided, were de- 
rived from the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, on account of the 
extension of the Ames contract over these 238 miles. Is that so? — A. 
Not altogether ; because at that time there were over 500 miles com- 
pleted. At the time the dividend was made there were 537 miles com- 
pleted. 

Q. Can you tell me, then, whether there are any means by which you 
can give me the amount which the construction of that road had cost ? 
— A. I cannot without going over the monthly estimates. 

Q. From what sources can we get the information ?— A. From the 
contractors' pay-rolls and the measurements of the work on contract. 

Q. Where would these be found? — A. They ought to be in Boston, 
or perhaps in Omaha. 

Q. In the office of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. Yes ; 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 117 

they should be in the office of the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 
Yery likely they were submitted to the trustees at the time. 

Q. Whe&i was the Davis contract? — A. On the 1st of November, 
1868. 

Q. State what was the understanding at the time that contract was 
made, as to its performance. Was it understood at the time that it 
was to be transferred to the Credit Mobilier or to any other corporation 
or board of trustees ? — A. It was to be transferred to the same board of 
trustees. 

Q. Was that the understanding at the time the contract was entered 
into between you and Davis ? — A. It was the understanding that Davis 
would transfer it, or that they would relieve him from all responsibility. 

Q. Did he afterward transfer it, pursuant to the understanding be- 
tween you and him % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is this a copy of the transfer % — A. Yes, sir. 

(The contract and transfer were put in evidence.) 

Q. Then the effect of that arrangement was simply to extend the 
Ames contract over the uncompleted portion of the work? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. And to put it into the hands of these seven trustees who were 
named in the assignment of the Ames contract % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. State now, whether, under the contract, those trustees proceeded 
to build the balance of the road. — A. They did. 

Q. Can you give the cost to the company ? — A. I cannot give the whole 
cost of the whole road. I can give the cost up to a certain point — up to 
the point the last dividends were made. In answering the question 
relative to the cost of this road and the amount that was paid on those 
dividends on the portion of the road that was built before Mr. Ames 
took the contract, I wish now to say that in the estimate on which those 
dividends were paid was also included a large amount of work done 
ahead of that — iron, ties, &c. — amounting probably to two or three mil- 
lions dollars. 

Q. State whether or not a question arose about the 25th of February, 
1869, in regard to payments that had been made on account of construc- 
tion. — A. There had been large payments made, and the question came 
up as to what authority there was for making them. 

Q. Then a question did arise % — A. Yes. 

Q. What did you do in reference to that matter; did you offer any 
resolution in regard to it? — A. I offered a resolution for the treasurer to 
report the authority. 

Q. Will you please read that resolution, so that it may be made a part 
of your testimony % — A. I will read from the record of the executive 
committee : 

" New York, February 25, 1869. 

" On motion of Mr. Durant, 

" Resolved, That the treasurer report to this committee the authority on 
which the check for $50,000, dated July 23, 1868, w T as paid ; also whether 
there is any deficiency in the cash or bond account of the company; the 
authority on which the payment of $11,000,000, or thereabouts, was 
made to contractors in January, and also an explanation of the check of 
$3,000 said to have been given for a commission on a loan which was not 
obtained." 

Q. Was that resolution adopted ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was the result of it ? — A. There was a report. 

Q. Did the treasurer make a report ? — A. The treasurer made a re- 
port. 



118 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Have you that report?— A. I have a copy of it here, and will fur- 
nish it to the committee. 

Q. Was any further action taken in regard to this matter or anything 
connected with it?— A. The report was made by authority of the com- 
mittee, and was accompanied by a copy of the chief engineer's report. 

Q. I will ask 3~ou to state whether yon made a protest on the 4th of 
March, 1869, aud caused it to be entered on the books of the company ; 
and, if so, I will ask yon to read it, so that it may go in as a part of your 
evidence. — A. I made a protest of that date, and submitted it to the 
board March 9, 1869, as follows : 

"New York, March 4, 1869. 
u To tlie Executive Committee of the Board of Directors of the Union Pacific 

Railroad. 

"Gentlemen: I learn that while I was absent on business of the 
company payment was made to assignees of the Oakes Ames contract, 
out of the funds of the company, for construction or equipments, or 
both, on the line of the road west of the 667 miles mentioned in that 
contract. As no assent of the stockholders to any contract or the exten- 
sion of any contract west of 667 miles has been obtained and no authority 
exists for said payment, I protest against the same, and demand that 
all such payments, if made, be recalled and the sums so paid be re- 
stored to the company." 

Q. Did you find that payments had been made of the character indi- 
cated in your protest ! — A. Payments had been made. 

Q. Do you know the extent of the payments ? — A. I do not know the 
exact extent of the payments. I could not tell. 

Q. About how much % — A. Several hundred thousand dollars. 

Q. What was the result of your protest ? — A. The assent of the stock- 
holders was procured, I think, to the Davis contract, and that being as- 
signed to the same parties it was adjusted between themselves. The 
company was not the loser by it. The protest was on the ground that 
there was no contract made, and could not be until the approval of the 
stockholders was obtained. The funds belonged to the company and 
were not to be paid to anybody except for construction. 

Q. You say that the money that was paid was afterward adjusted on 
the settlement of the Davis contract ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. To whom had that money been paid ? — A. To the trustees. 

Q. These trustees, then, had been going on and drawing money on this 
667 miles before the Davis contract was made ? — A. Yes, sir ; before it 
was approved by the stockholders. The trustees went on with their 
men and tools to complete the road. 

Q. I was interrogating you a little while ago in regard to the exten- 
sion of the Ames contract from the one hundreth meridian for 667 miles 
west when 238 miles had already been completed; you commenced 
giving some explanation as to why that was done; if you have any 
further explanation to make as to the reason why you commenced at 
the one hundredth meridian and ran 667 miles west, when 238 miles of the 
work was already done, I would like to hear it. — A. The stockholders 
of the Credit Mobilier had increased their capital to purchase an amount 
of bonds of the Pacific Railroad. After purchasing them they were to 
have the contract for a hundred miles of that road. That proposition 
embraced the purchase of nearly six million dollars of securities. It 
was accepted by the executive committee, and they commenced paying 
for the securities. The board of directors were not willing that the 
executive committee should make the contract ^Yithout their sanction. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 119 

They refused to sanction the contract, but still allowed these parties to 
take the bonds, as they needed the money. They paid for the bonds, 
and had no contract to go on. That was in 1867. When this contract 
was made with Mr. Ames they claimed that they should have the right 
to contract for the road, and it was for that reason that the Ames con- 
tract was assigned to the Credit Mobilier. Mr. Ames would not have 
taken the contract for the heavy work at the price he did, nor would the 
company have allowed him the light work that had been nearly com- 
pleted, on those terms; and they proposed to make an average, and the 
calculation was that there would be nearly 20 per cent, profit. 

Q. Why could they not just as well have let this contract for the 
uncompleted portion of the 667 miles at a contract price, to have been 
agreed upon ; where was the necessity of making this thing run back 
over the road that was already constructed ? — A. Well, they had been 
negotiating for the construction all the time, and the resolution on their 
books was that all contracts should be subject to the general contract 
from the one hundredth meridian. 

Q. Why should the company make a contract for a road that had 
already been constructed % — A. They were a good deal in debt, and it 
required a good deal of outside aid. Notwithstanding these contracts 
were made, notwithstanding this road was built, the parties interested 
in these contracts were borrowing money to keep them up. 

Q. How was the Union Pacific Railroad Company to receive any ad- 
vantage by handing over its means to pay the debts of these trustees 
and then paying an additional price for the t construction of the road ? — 
A. Under the Oakes Ames contract the} 1- secured at once means enough 
to construct their whole road, which it was doubtful could have been 
otherwise done. The Oakes Ames contract provided that the money they 
realized from the bonds should be paid, and beyond that the contractors 
should subscribe for stock enough to complete the whole thing. That 
iusurecrthe completion of the road. » 

Q. The company, then, could not make a contract for the construc- 
tion of the balauce of this 667 miles, unless it would make this arrange- 
ment covering the 238 miles H — A. They could not. 

Q. Those parties to whom the Oakes Ames contract was assigned 
would not make a contract with this railroad company, except upon 
condition that the company would give them the benefit on their con- 
tract of the part of the road that was already constructed ? — A. That 
was the case, sir. They would not unless the company could have shown 
that they could have paid for it at a much higher price. 

Q. Were the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroadand the stock- 
holders of the Credit Mobilier the same at that time ? — A. I think they 
were, with the exception of a few who had not paid up. These did not 
represent more than $20,000 or $30,000 stock. 

Q. Have you made up a statement showing the cost of this road on 
the Ames contract, the Hoxie contract, the Davis contract, &c. f — A. I 
have up to such time as included the dividends that have been made. 
(Statement handed in, and marked Exhibit 11.) 

Q. You spoke yesterday of some protest you had entered upon the 
records of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, and which they ex- 
punged ! — A. It was a difference of opinion on matters of policy. I 
protested against their making contracts without the assent of all the 
stockholders. 

Q. I will ask you to state if you know anything of Mr. Ames, after he 
had got his contract, and before it was assigned, making any efforts to 
get rid of you as a director on or manager of this road in any way I — A. I 



120 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

know there was objection to making the contract without the assent of 
the stockholders. 

Q. Have you any information that he made application of any sort to 
persons that were interested in the matter to get you out of that insti- 
tution % — A. There is that letter I have shown you. I would rather you 
would not bring private matters in if possible. 

Q. Just read that letter, so that the reporter may put it in your testi- 
mony. At this point 1 will ask you, in the first place, whether you are 
acquainted with Mr. Ames's handwriting. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is that his handwriting ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now read the letter. — A. I am doing this without the consent of 
Colonel McOomb. I do not know whether it may not be a breach of con- 
fidence : 

" New York, September 17, 1867. 

" Dear Sir : I have called on Governor John A. Andrew, and got his 
consent to act as one of the Government directors if he should be ap- 
pointed, and it is our wish to have him. I wish you to put the matter 
in the hands of Judge Black, if that is the best channel to do it. I do 
not suppose the change will be made until October. I hope you will get 
everything to run smoothly on the contract. I do not think we should 
do right to put Durant in as director, unless he withdraws his injunction 
suits and submits to the will of the majority. He cannot hurt us half 
as badly out of the direction as he can in, and there is no pleasure, 
peace, safety, or comfort with him unless he agrees to abide the decision 
of the majority, as the rest t>f us do. 
u Tery truly, yours, 

" OAKES AMES. 

" H. S. McComb, Esq." 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
<Q. I want to ask you a question which I believe has not been asked. 
By the first stipulation in the contract of August, 1867, with Oakes 
Ames, there is this provision : " First, the party of the second part 
agrees and binds himself, his heirs, executors, administrators, or assigns, 
to build the following-named portion of the railroad and telegraph line 
of the party of the first part, commencing on the 100th meridian of longi- 
tude, upon the following terms and conditions, to wit : 1. One hundred 
miles at and for the rate of $42,000 per mile. 2. One hundred and seven 
miles at $45,000. 3. One hundred miles at $96,000. 4. One hundred at 
$80,000 per mile. 5. One hundred miles at $90,000 per mile. 6. One 
hundred miles at $96,000 per mile." Now, please state where upon the 
line of the road each one of these subdivisions is located. — A. 1 could 
not do it without the maps and profiles. 

Q. Then state where are the maps and profiles by which that can be 
ascertained. — A. I presume they are in Boston. 

Q. State to me whether these subdivisions begin at the east end of 
the Oakes Ames contract and extend westward in the order of their 
statement in the contract. — A. They do ; it was so intended. 

Q. Is there any return, so far as you know, either in the records at 
Boston or in the Interior Department here, which will show what por- 
tions of these subdivisions drew the $10,000 per mile and what the 
$32,000 per mile 1 — A. Those points were established, I think, by the 
Government engineer, and they are a matter of record in the Interior 
Department or Treasury Department ; I do not know which. 

Q. These records in the Department will show this, it being known 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 121 

that these subdivisions begin at the eastern end, in the order' of their 
statement in the contract ! — A. The Government engineer established 
the base at the foot of the Eocky Mountains, which is the basis for the 
848,000 per mile. One hundred and fifty miles west of that point the 
$32,000 per mile commenced, and that continued through the Ames 
contract. 

Q. I see a stipulation here that the seven trustees in the assignment 
of the contract were to receive for their services as trustees a reason- 
able compensation, not to exceed the sum of $3,000 per annum ; what 
did they in fact receive ? — A. They received $3,000 per annum. That 
was paid for one or two years, aiid I believe they have received nothing 
since. 

Q. For one or two years they received that, and the residue is still 
unpaid ? — A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Suppose this road had been completed economically, and without 
unusual haste, and the capital subscribed had been paid in cash, would 
not the amount of the Government loan of $27,000,000 and the capital 
stock of $36,000,000, amounting together to $63,000,000, have com- 
pleted and equipped the road, without reference to the land-grants'? — 
A. Hardly, at the time they commenced work. 

Q. Would it not have substantially! — A. With the facilities as they 
were then, I doubt whether it would have. 

Q. In your opinion did the construction and equipment of that road 
cost the persons who furnished both more than that amount, $63,000,000 % 
I include in that the payment of land damages. — A. I think $65,000,000 
would have covered it/ 

Q. In that case, then, the expenditure of the Government loan of 
$27,000,000, the capital stock of $36,000,000, and $2,000,000 more in 
cash, would have completed the entire road and equipped it without ref- 
erence to the land-grant. Now, if that has been done, would not the 
stockholders now have had the entire road and its equipment, subject 
only to the Government claim of $27,000,000, together with all the land- 
grants % — A. So far as it was completed, they would. 

Q. State now what in your best judgment would be the present value 
of such property, including the land-grant and all its prospects of future 
development and increase. — A. I have no idea what the road is earning 
now. 

Q. You were its vice-president for many years ? — A. I have not been 
connected with the road for two years, not even as a stockholder. 

Q. Have you not a general knowledge of what the road is earning % — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Look at this statement of the earnings for eleven months in 1872, 
and state then what you should think the value of such property to be. — 
A. I should think the stock would be worth 80. The net earnings 
would be 6| per cent., but still you must take into consideration the 
depreciation of property and the renewal of iron every ten years. 

Q. Did you take into consideration the prospect of a large increase 
of trade ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you taken into consideration any value whatever of the 
land-grants? Your calculation is based upon earnings alone. — A. Upon 
earnings alone. 

Q. Now, have you any doubt, as an experienced businessman, taking 
that to be a correct statement of the present earnings and considering 
the value of this land-grant, that the capital stock of $36,000,000— the 



122 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

company owning the entire road, equipments, rolling-stock, &c, as they 
do, subject only to the Government claim of $27,000,000 — would be worth 
considerably above par ? — A. No, sir. I do not think it would be worth 
par. In the first place, I do not think there are two million acres of 
land worth a cent. 

Q. You still think it would be worth 75 or 80 ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What do you think it to be worth now? — A. It depends upon 
whether the street is " long V or " short" of the stock. I think the last 
quotation is about 35. 

Q. I will ask you the general question whether any of the persons who 
have held the office of Government director in the Union Pacific Bail- 
road since its original establishment have ever been interested, directly 
or indirectly, so far as you know, in the Credit Mobilier, or in any con- 
tract with the road ? — A. I do not recall any, except the case of Mr. 
Xeilson, the son-in-law of James Brooks, about which I have testified. 

Q. With that exception, have any of the Government directors been 
interested in any manner in the Credit Mobilier, or in any contract for 
the construction of the road? — A. I do not call to mind any. 

Q. Or supplying it with coal ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. I will ask you to read over the list of Government directors and 
see whether you wish to qualify your answer. — A. I do not recollect any, 

Q. Are you a member of the Wyoming Coal Company ? — A. I sub- 
scribed to its stock to help its organization. 

Q. Who are the principal owners of that company ? — A. The company 
was organized for the benefit of the Union Pacific Eailroad, and to sup- 
ply it with coal. Several of the directors subscribed to its stock, as 
trustees of the Union Pacific road. The parties who work the mine have 
10 or 15 per cent, of stock, and the rest is held for the benefit of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad. 

Q. Suppose there is a dividend of the stock of this coal company, is 
that dividend paid into the treasury of the company % — A. The company 
only pay the actual cost of the coal, $1.82. Any dividend would go to 
the Union Pacific road. I hold $20,000 of stock, which 1 paid for in 
installments out of the trust-funds. The only reason that it stands in 
my name now is because the Union Pacific will not release the parties 
that subscribed from any liability in case of debt. I believe that all the 
stock except about 15 per cent, is held in trust for the Union Pacific 
road. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. When was the first contract entered into in regard to this Wyo- 
ming Coal Company % — A. I think it was in 1868. 

Q. W r ho executed that contract % — A. I do not know y I never saw it 
until after it was executed. I think Mr. Oliver Ames, Mr. Godfrey, and 
Mr. Wardell. Oliver Ames executed it as president of the road. 

Q. When was the company organized % — A. I presume the date stated 
is correct — February 21, 1868. 

Q. Is it not a fact that the Wyoming Coal Company was organized 
after the date of this contract I have referred to % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was this agreement assigned to the Wyoming Coal Company % — 
A. Supposed to have been. 

Q. Under what law was the Wyoming Coal Company organized 1 — A. 
The general law of the State of Nebraska. 

Q. Who were the directors and officers of the coal company ? — A. The 
directors, I think, were John Duff, Mr. Oliver Ames, and Mr. Wardell. 
I do not remember whether Mr. Bushnell was one or not. Mr. Duff was 
president, and Mr. Wardell secretary or treasurer. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 123 

Q. Do you know the capital stock of this coal company ? — A. I think 
$500,000, divided into shares of $100 each. 

Q. What proportion of the capital stock of the Wyoming Coal Com- 
pany is held by stockholders or officers of the Union Pacific Railroad ? — 
A. None on their own account. • 

Q. What percentage of this stock do they hold ? — A. I am not posi- 
tive whether that contract provided that Mr. Wardell should have one- 
tenth. Whatever it was, he is the only stockholder besides what is held 
by the Union Pacific Railroad. Possibly he may hold only one-fifth, 
and the company the rest. 

Q. Is the stock in the name of the Union Pacific Railroad ? — A. I think 
they ordered the whole to be transferred to Bushnell, as trustee for the 
Uniou Pacific road, but there are some subscribers who have not trans- 
ferred their stock. I have not, because they have made no report, and 
if they are in debt I want a release, so that I shall not be individually 
liable. 

Q. Where is the business office of this Wyoming Coal Company ? — 
A. In Omaha. 

Q. Do you know what the receipts of the coal company have been ? — 
A. The treasurer informed me the other day that the receipts were 
barely sufficient to pay the expenses. 

Q, Do you know how much had been paid in on the stock? — A. I 
think about 25 per cent. Stock has never been issued. Certificates 
have, I understand, been issued within two or three months for the ben- 
efit of the company. 

Q. Do you know of any money being paid to any commissioner ap- 
pointed by the Government to inspect this road? — A. I never paid any, 
nor was any ever paid by my instructions. 

Q. Did you ever hear of any being paid ? — A. I think we paid Snow 
$600 and his traveling expenses out there. 

Q. Did you ever hear of any money being paid to these commission- 
ers? — A. I heard a good deal of talk about it around the hotels here. 
They said a man wouldn't take it unless he could make something out 
of it. I wrote to the president and treasurer to ascertain if that was so. 
I knew I had paid nothing. 

Q. How much money was reputed to have been paid ? — A. I have 
heard as much as $25,000. 

Q. Did you ever hear Mr. Alley say anything about any money being 
paid ? — A. No, sir ; I do not recollect his saying anything about it. 

Q. Who did you hear speak of it ? — A. I cannot say. It was the 
general talk here. I beard of it first here. 

Q. Is there anything of that kind in this suspended account we were 
talking about? — A. No, sir; not a dollar. I never paid anything and 
don't know anybody that did. They were legally entitled to some- 
thing, I think. They sent their bills in pretty promptly, bills of Govern- 
ment commissioners. 

Q. Has it not been generally understood among you gentlemen who 
were managing this thing that moneys had been paid to these commis- 
sioners in excess of what they were entitled to under the law ? — A. No. 

Q. You never heard anything of that sort ? — A. The commissioners 
used to get abused a good deal by newspaper correspondents who did 
not get all they wanted ; we could not send excursion trains over twice 
a day. 

Adjourned till the 18th. 



124 CREDIT M0BILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Washington, D. C, January 18, 1873. 

Testimony of Thomas 0. Durant continued. 

Witness. I was asked yesterday whether Government directors had 
ever been paid anything. I desire to state now that they were paid 
by the Union Pacific Railroad* Company. Their salary was fixed first, 
I believe, at a per diem, and afterward a resolution was passed to give 
them $3,000. At the time that Mr. 0. T. Sherman was leaving the 
city he presented a claim for $3,000 a year for three years. His claim 
amounted to $7,000. I saw Mr. Bushnell, who was one of the commit- 
tee to which the matter was referred, and he informed me that it was 
all right ; and Mr. Bard well and myself advanced Mr. Sherman $7,000. 
I had stated yesterday that I had made no advances to Government 
directors, and this statement is in explanation of that. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Did Mr. Sherman continue to be a Government director after 
that 1 — A. No $ he was through with it and was leaving the city. 

Q. Do you know anything in regard to what was called the Sioux City 
Construction Company 1 ? — A. I suppose it to be the company which con- 
structed what was formerly known as the Sioux City branch of the Union 
Pacific Railroad. 

Q. Were there any changes made, either by legislation or otherwise, 
which affected the original manner in which these roads were to be 
constructed ! If there were, I wish you to call the attention of the 
committee to them. — A. The original bill provided that the Union 
Pacific Railroad proper should commence at the one hundredth merid- 
ian, and it authorized or compelled the comiDany to build a branch from 
some point near the center of Iowa, to be fixed by the President of the 
United States, to the one hundredth meridian ; also a branch to the 
Sioux City Railroad, to connect with the Union Pacific Railroad at some 
point which might be determined upon by the President. It also gave 
the right to the Leavenworth and Pawnee Railroad Company, on the 
south side, to construct their line to the one hundredth meridian, there 
to connect with the Union Pacific Railroad, and I think there was a clause 
in the law that the road which first got to the one hundredth meridian 
should go on and complete the whole Pacific Railroad. In the law of 
1864 there was an amendment to the bill, giving the right to build the 
Sioux City branch to private corporations, and relieving the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company from the obligation of building it, and giving to these 
private corporations all the subsidies which the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company were allowed for that branch. They got all the subsidies, and 
everything, and were tied to the same obligations as the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company, with the exception of being obliged to have Govern- 
ment directors. 

Q. State whether you have any knowledge or information in regard 
to any person having paid anything to anybody in order to get that 
thing accomplished. — A. I do not know that anything was paid to get 
that accomplished. 

Q. Do you know of any payment being made with reference to that 
thing % — A. The franchise may have been sold out. 

Q. State to the committee all that you have heard on that subject. — 
A. I think that Mr. Ames and Mr. Alley had a large interest in it. I 
know 1 have heard Mr. Ames repeat, on several occasions, that he had 
paid others for their interest. 

Q. Whom did he say that he had paid for their interest ? — A. He 
mentioned the Iowa members of Congress at the time. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 125 

Q. Did he mention the names of the members ! — A. I think he men- 
tioned the name of Mr. Wilson and of Mr. Allison. I am not positive 
about Mr. Allison. 

Q, Did Mr. Ames tell yon what he had to pay? — A. He said he paid 
$5,000 apiece for some of the interests. I do not know what they were. 

Q. Did he tell you he had to pay them in order to get this legislation 
in that particular case 1 — A. No j I think it was to get control of the 
franchise. 

Q. When was this Sioux City branch built f — A. It must have been 
built under some subsequent company. 

Q. What subsidies were paid for building this road ? — A. The same 
subsidies as the Union Pacific Eailroad got. 

Q. At what time, with reference to the passage of this act of 1S64, 
were these payments made that you have spoken of? — A. I do not 
know ; this road is being constructed now by the Sioux City Construc- 
tion Company. 

Q. Were the subsidies in lands, or were they in bonds ? — A. They 
were to have the same Government bonds — $16,000 a mile — and the 
same quantity of land per mile as we had. We were contesting the 
lands where they lapped. They got the subsidies in bonds, and such 
lands as the Government had upon the liue. 

Q. Was that the same legislation that is embraced in the act of 1864 ? 
— A. It is all in the bill known as the Union Pacific Railroad bill. 

Q. Who constructed this branch road ? — A. I suppose the Sioux City 
Construction Company did it. 

Q. Have you any information as to what parties were largely inter- 
ested in that Sioux City Construction Company % — A. Mr. Ames was in 
it ; Mr. Alley was in, I believe, and I think that Mr. Dillon had an 
interest in it. I had no interest myself. 

Q. What franchise was it that Mr. Ames said he had to pay $5,000 
apiece in order to get % — A. The franchise of whatever parties had the 
right to that Sioux City line. 

Q. Had there been anything at that time done in the construction of 
that line? — A. Nothing at alb 

Q. There had been no organization effected ? — A. Except that the Union 
Pacific Eailroad organization controlled the whole thing. But after 
the amendment of 1864, the Union Pacific Railroad Company had 
nothing further to do with it. That act cut the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company out of it, and gave it to private corporations. 

Q. And it was for the parties who organized after the act of 1864 
that Mr. Ames negotiated ? — A. I suppose so. 

Q. Is there anything else that you know about that ? — A. No, sir ; I 
was considerably annoyed that we lost that branch road. 

By Mr. Perry : 

Q. Mr. Barnes has put in a contract about which I wish to ask you a 
question or two— a contract made by the subscribers to the Credit Mo- 
bilier, at or about the time of the subscription, with this condition : that 
the full powers of the board of directors should be delegated to the 
New York agency; also, that a railroad bureau should be established, 
to consist of aboard of five managers, three of whom must be directors 
in the company, and who should have the management of railroad con- 
tracts. It was afterward added that that board should consist of seven 
members. As I understand it, the organization of the Credit Mobilier 
was kept up by meetings held in Pennsylvania to elect the officers? — 
A. Yes. 



126 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. And the records of their meetings were kept in that State ? — A. 
Yes. 

Q. The officers who were elected there included the executive com- 
mittee?— A. Yes. 

Q. Aud that executive committee created the railroad bureau ? — A. I 
do not recollect whether the executive committee did, or whether the 
directors did. The full powers of the directors were delegated to the 
executive committee when the directors were not in session. 

Q. I find by reference to this book of records that on motion there 
was appointed an executive committee with the full powers of the board 
of directors when the board was not in session ; also, that on motion 
the railway bureau be increased to seven members as soon as the assent 
of the executive committee is obtained. The railway bureau, I take it, 
made such reports as they did make to the executive committee? — A. 
They kept a separate book of their proceedings, which were reported to 
the board of directors. 

Q. Where is that book ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. Did the executive committee make any reports beyond those ?— A. 
I think that the minutes of the railway bureau were always reported to 
the board of directors, or to the executive committee — generally to the 
executive committee. 

Q. "Was there a book kept of the proceedings of the executive com- 
mittee in New York? — A. There was a record whenever they had a 
meeting. 

Q. Did not your executive committee keep a separate book of their 
transactions in New York ? — A. I am unable to say. The executive 
committee met very seldom, as the business was confided to the railway 
bureau! The object of that was this: The charter provided that the 
majority of the directors should reside in the State of Pennsylvania. 
It provided, also, that the committee might establish agencies in Europe, 
or elsewhere, to do the business. They established the New York agency 
for that business, and then they confided the construction of the road 
to a board of managers, on which 'they put three directors. They might 
put all directors on the board, bat they iniist have three at all events. 
The object was to get railroad men to manage the business. That was 
the railway bureau, and they had full authority over construction. They 
were really the men who did the business. The others kept up the or- 
ganization. 

Q. This is the real record of the proceedings of that bureau ? — A. 
Yes. 

Q. You do not know whether there was any record kept by the execu- 
tive committee? — A. I do not know that the executive committee had 
more than two or three meetings, and my impression is that their pro- 
ceedings were put upon the records of the board of directors. 

Q. Aside from what there may be on these minutes kept by Mr. 
Barnes of the proceedings of-the executive committee, you are not aware 
that any book was kept ? — A. No, sir.' 

Q. You think there w r as not ? — A. I think their proceedings were in 
the record-book of the board of directors. 

Q. There is no book covering the action of the board of directors ex- 
cept this one produced by Mr. Barnes ? — A. Not that I know of. I 
have had nothing to do with the company since 1867, and I think that 
that was all the record that was kept in 1867. 

Q. In looking for traces of records of the proceedings of this company 
we are to look at this book, kept by Mr. Barnes in Philadelphia, and 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND TOsION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 127 

the book, to which you have referred, kept by the railway bureau iu 
New York ! — A. Yes. 

Q. And that bureau transacted the chief business of the company! — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. As to this suspense account, I wish to see if I have the correct 
idea of what you stated yesterday. Here is an account of $435,000, 
running from the 1st of August, 1864, to the 10th of May, 18G6 ; did 
I understand you that in all these items you put in the vouchers : that 
is, you put in the receipts or vouchers given to you by the persons who 
took the money ? — A. Yes. 

Q. With the exception of traveling expenses $— A. Yes. 
Q. With that exception it was all covered by the receipts of the 
persons to whom you gave the money f— A. Yes, and approved by the 
committee. 

Q. And the committee reported to the board. of directors? — A. The 
accounts were all audited and approved at the time they were paid. 
This was a subsequent board of directors that wanted to distribute the 
suspense account over the whole road, and this new board of directors 
audited it again. 

Q. You did state, I believe, pretty satisfactorily, that, according to 
your knowledge and belief, not a dollar of that amount was paid to 
influence legislation % — A. I stated so distinctly. 

Q. Have I understood you correctly, that you paid something like 
$100,000 to Mr. Stewart?— A. More than that; two or three hundred 
thousand dollars. He was employed to settle arrangements with the 
Leavenworth and Pawnee Bailroad people, who were interfering with 
the bill then pending. Mr, Hay, Mr. Latham, and Mr. Hallett were 
also employed. 

Q. For service out there in Kansas? — A. No ; but here in Washing- 
ton. The Kansas people were all the claimants of the stock ; it was an 
arrangement between the two corporations ; they were throwing obsta- 
cles in the way of the bill all thewhile. I think that General Fremont 
had a million dollars of stock, and they were here with a strong force, 
ten to our one, and we found that we could not do anything until we 
had adjusted these difficulties and got their opposition out of the way. 
Q. At the time that this money was paid, you and the other trustees 
interested in it knew for what it was paid ? — A. A good deal of it was 
done in this way : For instance, there was a claim of $1,200,000, and Mr. 
Stevens got an idea that that claim would be ahead of the Government 
lien on the Kansas road, and he insisted on inserting a clause in the 
bill to compel the officers of the railroad companies to swear that the 
roads were out of debt on every section before the Government issued 
its bonds. It was the removal of this obstruction that cost us monej T . 
The Leavenworth and Pawnee road had already issued a mortgage, 
and Mr. Stevens contended that that mortgage would be a prior lien to 
the Government bonds, as well as to the first-mortgage bonds of the 
company, and we had to arrange to get those bonds taken up. I said 
to Mr. Hay and Mr. Stewart that we would go to the extent of $500,000 
in the matter, but would not go any further. They called for money, 
from time to time, and as we had not the money to pay all at once, we 
distributed the pay all along. The details of that matter these gentle- 
men can explain. 

Q. Can you state which of these items in the suspense account are 
covered by that? — A. This is covered in different items, because the 
moneys we're paid at different times. I took their. vouchers and ad- 
vanced the money. 



128 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Then.it is for that reason that these items appear to be charged 
to you ? — A. All the items beginning with August 6, down to Septem- 
ber 14, 1864, stand in my name, and were all of them money that was 
paid over to get rid of these claims. 

Q. Here is another item, under the head of September 30. — A. All of 
these items in my name were the same thing; they all refer to that 
except, as I stated before, where they refer to traveling expenses, &c. 

Q. Here is an item charged to Mr. Bushnell, September 21. — A. That 
is for an account which he rendered. | do notTecoilect the details of 
it. I have not the least idea what it was for. He was one of the 
directors here. I think it was for the purchase of this Leavenworth 
stock. 

Q. There is another item of September 26, of $3,000, charged to Mr. 
Davis. — A. That was for services, and I think he subscribed $3,000 to 
the stock. 

Q. What services were they ? — A. He did a good deal of business for 
the company. He is the railroad agent in New York, and the purchaser 
of iron and equipments. He came to Washington for the company 
two or three times, and he went to several other places for the company. 
This item may be for his expenses. He came on here once to meet the 
Cabinet, in order to see about changing the gauge of the road. He was 
a director in the company at the time. 

Q. The next item is $2,000 for Kennedy. Do you know what that 
was for 1 — A. That was for his services. I do not recollect what they 
were for. That sum he paid as an installment in the stock. I think he 
subscribed for two thousand shares, and paid 10 per cent, on them — the 
same as he is charged there. 

Q. The next item in the -suspense account is on September 29 ; Alex- 
ander Hay, $4,000. — A. I do not recollect that. It is, perhaps, some- 
thing which the company paid him instead of my paying him. 

Q. There is an item charged to Mr. McOomb, March 21. — A. That was 
a claim for his expenses in coming to Washington, &c. 

Q. The next item is of March 30 : " Special committee $50,000." Do 
you know what that is % — A. That item*is simply charged in that way, 
instead of being charged to me. It was all for the same thing. 

Q. It was all paid to get rid of this Kansas difficulty f — A. It was in 
exchange for those Kansas bonds. 

Q. You were asked yesterday whether, to your knowledge or belief, 
any money was paid by either of these companies to any member of 
Congress. I now ask you whether any was paid to any executive offi- 
cer of the Government? — A. I do not think there was. There may 
have been such a thing as some of this stock being purchased from 
some officers of the Government, but I do not think that any money 
was paid to any executive officer. The only executive officer of the 
Government that I know anything about in connection with it (and he 
took an active part in the matter) was Mr. John P. Usher. He was very 
active in the Leavenworth and Pawnee road long before he came here. 

Q. Do you know whether any part of this large sum of money that 
went to Stewart and Hay was paid to him ? — A. I do not think it was. 
I do not know. I cannot answer what Stewart did with it. I have been 
trying to think whom he saw here at that time. I saw but very few 
executive officers or members of Congress. 

Q. I want you to state, from your recollection or belief, whether from 
your conversation with persons employed by you or by your company 
n rela tion to these transactions here any money went to any executive 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND TOION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 129 

officer of the Government ? — A. I do not think any did. Our difficulty 
at that time was not to get the bill amended, because everybody was in 
favor of that and everybody wanted the road built. The difficulty was 
to arrange the troubles between the corporations and the embarass- 
ment which this Leavenworth and Pawnee road had got into. Mr. 
Stewart did give me a statement. He wrote me a letter after the last 
thing was closed up, giving me a full statement. I did not read the let- 
ter through, but I showed it to Mr. Harbaugh, I think, and he said, 
"This is an important document; let me put it on file." I have never 
been able to see it since. I applied to Mr. Stewart years ago to see if 
he could make me up another statement, but I have never got it. 

Q. I understand you to say that, to the best of your knowledge and 
belief, there was no money or valuable thing paid to any executive offi- 
cer of the Government ? — A. ISTot to my knowledge. These items in the 
suspense account were frequently paid in small sums, and one of these 
entries may cover twenty items. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Are the first-mortgage bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany so registered that there is any mode of ascertaining who were the 
holders of those bonds at any particular time 1 — A. The numbers of the 
bonds were kept in the office up to a certain time. I do not remember 
whether whenever a bond was sold the name of the person to whom it 
was sold was taken. After 1866 or 1867 there were no numbers to 
the bonds. They are coupon bonds, and change from hand to hand. 
There is no registration of the bonds. 

Q. Is the mortgage to the trustees for the bondholders? — A. The 
mortgage is to the trustees. 

Q. Who are the trustees ? — A. Governor Morgan and Oakes Ames. 

Q. Have you any information as to where the larger proportion of 
these bonds are now held ? — A. I have not. Small parcels have changed 
hands probably twenty times. They have been on the market for sev- 
eral years. 

Q. Are you yourself the holder of any of those bonds now ? — A. No, 
sir ; I am not. 

• Q. Are any of them held by the Credit Mobilier, or by the trustees, 
so far as you know ? — A. Not so far as I know. 1 do not think the 
Credit Mobilier has any. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Does the Credit Mobilier own any stock of the Union Pacific Bail- 
road Company % — A. I do not know. 

Q. Please explain to the committee the character of these land-grant 
bonds, and under what authority they were issued, and when they were 
issued, and the whole amount of them, as near as you can. — A. I think 
the amount is about $10,000,000. They were issued under a deed of 
trust on the lands as the company acquired them. The trust is to secure 
the payment of so many bonds per mile. 

Q. That deed of trust was executed by whom ! — A. By the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. Does it cover lands for which patents have not been received, or 
is it confined only to lands for which the patents were already received? — 
A. It covers all the lands embraced in the grant. 

Q. Who are the trustees in that deed of trust \ — A. I think the trus- 
tees are John Duff and Cyrus McCormick. 

Q. Where can a copy of that deed be found ? — A. In the company's 

9 CM 



103 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

office. Either of the trustees will probably have it, as copies were 
printed for circulation. 

Q. Is there any mode of ascertaining who are the holders of those 
land- grant bonds? — A. They are coupon bonds payable to bearer. 

Q. How were they sold — in the open market f — A. Some of them. 

Q. Or were they sold to the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier? — A. 
I cannot answer that. They were sold after the office was removed to 
Boston. They were sold in parcels at the time according as the com- 
pany wanted the money. I do not recollect that I ever was the owner 
of one. 

Q. Have you any information as to how they were disposed of? — A. 
I think that the first lot of them was offered to the stockholders of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company at a certain price. 

Q. At what price? — A. I do not recollect the price. I know I did 
not take mine, and a great many others did not take theirs. 

Q. Have the whole $10,000,000 of bonds been sold?— A. I cannot 
answer; I do not know. 

Q. What is your best information on that subject? — A. At the last 
meeting of stockholders that I attended two years since, I think there 
were some still in the possession of the company. I think the report 
stated so, but I am not positive. 

Q. At what rate were those bonds offered to you when tbe3 T were 
offered? — A. I cannot say whether it was 55 or So, but it was a price 
which I did not think they were worth, and I did not take any. 

By Mr. HOAR : 

Q. What generally was done with these land-grant bonds; to whom 
were the $10,000,000 issued ? — A. They were sold to anybody w 7 ho would 
take them from time to time during two or three years. 

Q. Did the Credit Mobilier buy any of them ?— A. O, no. 

Q. For what end were they issued ? — A. The Union Pacific Bailroad 
Company was in debt. 

Q. What debt had the company ? Did it owe any considerable debts 
except to those persons who had the construction contracts ? — A. They 
owed for construction, and it took no inconsiderable amount to pay the 
interest on the first-mortgage bonds, while the company was earning 
nothing. I think they have used some money in aiding other roads out 
there. 

Q. What other roads'? — A. I suppose the connecting roads there. 

Q. What ones ? — A. I am unable to say. I think some roads near 
Denver and some roads in Salt Lake Valley. 

Q. Are any of the other roads that were aided by this money which 
was realized on the land-grant bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad, 
roads in which any of those gentlemen of the Credit Mobilier were 
interested ? — A. I have not the least idea, for I paid no attention to the 
affairs of the company since 1869. 

Q. When were these land-grant bonds issued ? — A. I cannot tell you. 
I think the company commenced issuing them in the latter part of 1868 
or the fore part of 1869. The first issue was to be $3,000,000. 

Q. Is the deed of trust in the nature of a mortgage ? — A. It is in the 
nature of a deed of trust and a mortgage. 

Q. According to your estimate of the valne of the lands, this land- 
grant mortgage is a mortgage of the entire value of those lands. They 
are mortgaged up to the full value? — A. I do not know what they are 
selling their lands at. 

Q. You stated yesterday that you did not consider all the rights of 



CBEDIT MOBILIER AXD UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 131 

the company to public lands equal to more than a few millions of dol- 
lars? — A. Not what they have got outstanding now. The company has 
redeemed some of these bonds. 

Q. You stated that all the land was only worth a few millions of dollars"? 
— A. I did not intend to be so understood. I stated that I did not think 
that more than 2,000,000 acres of the land were of much value. 

Q. Be good enough to state what, in your judgment, the right of this 
company in the public lands, assuming that right to be complete, is 
worth? — A. I cannot tell you, for I do not know whether the land is 
selling at 82 or $5 or 810 an acre. 

Q. You have no knowledge on the subject? — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Shellabaeger : 

Q. Do you know how much of these land-grant bonds the Union Pa- 
cific Railroad Company has yet under its control? — A. I know nothing 
of its affairs since 1869. 

■ Q. Where is that mortgage recorded? — A. It is recorded on the line 
of the road, aud either iu the office of the Secretary of the Interior, or of 
the Secretary of the Treasury, or probably in both of them. 
By Mr. Perry : 

(J. Your railway bureau consisted of three directors of the Union Pa- 
cific Railroad Company ? — A. They were not necessarily directors of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company. It was not necessary that they should 
be at all in the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. Did it consist in part of directors or stockholders in the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. Yes ; two or three of them were. 

Q. When these first-mortgage bonds were issued under the act of 
1864, where was that mortgage first determined upon — in this executive 
committee or in this railway bureau ? — A. Neither one of them had any- 
thing to do with it. That mortgage was the business of the Union Pa- 
cific Railroad Compauy, and not of the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. You mean to say that the Credit Mobilier or its executive com- 
mittee had nothing to do with getting up that mortgage? — A. Nothing 
at all. I think it was done before the Credit Mobilier had anything to 
do with the road. 

Q. Before the proxies by the Union Pacific stockholders were given ? 
— A. Yes. W T e had nearly 600 miles of road doue when these were 
given. 

Q. The resolution relative to the laud-grant bonds was adopted May 
12, 1864?— A. Yes,- and this Credit Mobilier came in May 15,1865. 
At that time we could not get the Government bonds, and we could not 
issue our first-mortgage bonds until we had got the Government bonds. 

Q. Now as to the first-mortgage bonds authorized under the act of May, 
1864? — A. They were issued iu 1864 or 1865. We had nothing to do 
with the Credit Mobilier until 1865. This Credit Mobilier stock was 
transferred to us in 1865, with 1 or 2 per cent, paid upon it. and we paid 
it up in full. The charter had been bought for another purpose. 

Q. You bought the charter before the re-organization ? — A. I had an 
interest iu it before the re-organization. When we took it we found a 
certain amount of stock paid up; I think 2 per cent. 

Q. When you first bought that it was under an organization started 
by Duff Green? — A. I do not know when it was started, but it was 
called the Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency. I paid $500 as my subscription 
to the stock. 

Q. You paid about $39,000 for the charter, altogether ?— A. Yes ; it 
cost us about $40,000, altogether. 



132 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. When you first made that arrangement it was existing as a fiscal 
agency, and there had been nothing paid on it ? — A. The treasurer's ac- 
count showed that there had been about 1 or 2 per cent, paid upon the 
stock subscriptions. 

Q. Whatever it was, that organization was abandoned? — A. No; they 
kept up the organization. 

Q. The first organization as a fiscal agency was wholly abandoned t — 
A. That was before I knew anything about it. We got it while Mr. 
Barnes was in it 

Q. When did you first take the transfer of the stock? — A. I cannot 
say ; I paid no attention to it ; I advanced $5,000 and took 500 shares 
myself. This must have been in the winter of 1863 or 1864. 

Q. Has not your attention been called to the steps. taken in the or- 
ganization? — A. No. 

Q. Here was originally an organization made on the 7th of Novem- 
ber, 1859. There were no meetings held after that down to May 29, 
1863; but, in the mean time, as I understand it, there had been some 
litigation. On May 29, 1863, the original commissioners under the act 
opened a new subscription, just as if it had never been organized, arid 
when the subscription was made the governor issued his letters-patent? — 
A. That I do not know anything about. It was before I had anything 
to do with it. 

Q. The first you knew of it was about March, 1865 ? — A. No ; during 
the winter of 1864 some parties were offering the charter for sale. I 
thought it might be a good thing for operations in New York. I pro- 
posed to make it a sort of half-way banking concern. I advanced $5,000 
to Mr. Train, who went on and made the negotiation. I subscribed for 
500 shares of stock, and that was the last I knew of it until March, 1865. 
Then I found that we were obliged to have this corporation. They had 
attempted to build the road on individual subscription, but they could 
not do it on account of individual responsibility. Then this was taken 
to restrict the responsibility to the amount of cash paid in. 

Q. How soon after that did you commence negotiating with the Union 
Pacific Kailroad Company for the contract to build its road ? — A. The 
contract was made a long time previous to that. We took the contract 
of a contractor who had failed and offered to surrender his contract to 
the company. 

Q. Who do you mean by "we?" — A. I mean the parties who sub- 
scribed to that paper. The Credit Mobilier took it. Mr. Hoxie took the 
contract first, and went along as far as he could. Then he made an 
attempt to raise $1,600,000. The subscribers paid the first installment of 
25 per cent., but when they were called upon to pay the second install- 
ment everything looked so blue that the parties said, u No ; we are gen- 
eral partners and will not go on unless you can limit our liability." So 
we took this charter. I had it examined ; I thought it would answer our 
purpose, and transferred the subscriptions which had gone in individu- 
ally in order to furnish this company with a capital of $2,500,000. The 
company then guaranteed Mr. Hoxie's contract and went on with it. On 
the day that was done Mr. Hoxie had requested the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company to take his contract back. 

Q. So that this is about the first date of your mutual relations ? — A. 
^hat r s tr > first the two companies had anything to do with each 



ot 



By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. Give me the resolution that was passed in reference to the Ames 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 133 

contract. — A. The Ames proposition was made August 16, 1867. It 
was a proposition made to the officers and board of directors of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company to this effect : •* I propose to construct, 
for your company, 667 miles of your road, commencing at the 100th me- 
ridian, westward, for the following prices, &c. ; provided the details of a 
contract can be arranged, by a committee of your board and myself, 
satisfactorily." 

Q. What was the action of the board on that proposition ? — A. The 
proposition of Mr. Ames was adopted by the following vote : leas — Du- 
rant, Tuttle, Cisco, McComb, Ames, Bardwell, Dillon, Macy, Tracy, 
Cooke, Harbaugh, Ashmun, and Sherman. Nays — Carter and Williams. 
Mr. Carter had offered the following resolution, which was lost : " Ee- 
solved, That the contract now under consideration be limited to the Lara- 
mie Eiver, so as to leave a part of the $48,000 per mile subsidy to go with a 
future contract, which will include the Washita range, known to be the 
heaviest and most expensive portion of the road.' 7 The next resolution 
relative to the contract was on the same day, as follows : " Resolved, That 
the contract adopted this day be referred to the executive committee to 
settle the details; and when the same is approved by the said executive 
committee, the president pro tern, and secretary are hereby authorized to 
execute the same in the name of the company ; and it is further ordered 
that when executed, the secretary record the same on the minutes of the 
board." Here is a copy of the contract as drawn up in detail by the execu- 
tive committee, and here are the resolutions passed upon it. Mr. Williams, 
Government director, suggested that it should be left in the option of 
the board to extend that contract to Salt Lake, if it did not cover the 
Washita range, and then the following resolution was offered and 
adopted: " Eesolved, That the option to extend this contract to Salt 
Lake be referred to the board, with the recommendation that the option 
be accepted." That was on October 1, 1867. 

Q. Was there stock originally issued to the Credit Mobilier in gross, 
in large quantities, and then afterwards taken up and canceled and then 
re-issued as dividends of stock ! — A. O, no, sir. I will tell you how 
that was done. In the first place the Credit Mobilier subscribed to a 
certain amount of stock and paid thirty per cent, on it, leaving seventy 
per cent, to be paid. This stock they disposed of among their stock- 
holders. They afterwards, when the Pacific Eailway was in want of 
money, would pay one, two, or three hundred thousand dollars, as the 
case might be, to them, and took a receipt that they paid so much 
money on account of stock, and it was credited for new subscriptions. 
These receipts were issued to their stockholders. Some of them took 
the receipts and subscribed it as so much money ; others used it to pay 
up their subscrintion fully. After that all subscriptions were paid up 
in full. 

Q. What was the amount of this subscription on which the Credit 
Mobilier paid thirty per cent.? — A. I think the first subscription was 
for 500 shares ; it might have been 5,000. If it was 5,00Q they paid 
$150,000 cash and took a subscription certificate for thirty per cent, 
leaving it subject to a call of seventy per cent. 

Q. From the books in your possession, are you able to state the vari- 
ous amounts issued in that way"? — A. I am not familiar enough with the 
books to know where to look for them. 

Q. Can you state the aggregate amount of stock that was is . \ to 
the Credit Mobilier in the way you have just described? — A. I think 
the Credit Mobilier took, including the stock purchased of other parties 
on which ten per cent, had been paid, somewhere about five millions. 



134. CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. That includes all that it took from first to last ? — A. From first to 
last, 

Q. Now, then, what other stock was subscribed than this $5,000,000 
and that $2,000,000, which yon testified about yesterday? — A. No 
other. 

Q. One of the witnesses has testified that stock was issued to him in 
his own name as dividends upon his Credit Mobilier stock, and taken by 
him at thirty per cent, of its par value, but he could not testify whether 
or not that stock had been previously issued to the Credit Mobilier in 
gross and then taken up and re-issued to the stockholders. Can you 
state how that was ? — A. Most of the difficulties people labor under in 
regard to this matter is that they confound the two corporations. That 
witness, probably, received his stock from the Credit Mobilier, upon 
which they had paid thirty per cent. He owes the Pacific Eailroad sev- 
enty per cent, on that stock whenever they choose to call for it. 

Q. Your statement is that when the dividend was made to a stock- 
holder in the Credit Mobilier at 30 per cent., and he received a certifi- 
cate, say, for one share of Union Pacific Eailroad stock, he took it sub- 
ject to the obligation to pay 70 per cent, before he would be entitled to 
the full stock ? — A. Yes, sir. They were not made as dividends ; they 
were made as sales. 

Q. Is that true now of all this stock we see in the papers that have 
been shown here, as issued by the Credit Mobilier as dividends ? The 
stockholders took all the shares of stock therein described subject to an 
obligation to pay to the Union Pacific Railway the balance due on the 
stock 1 — A. No, sir. I spoke only with reference to the Credit Mobilier 
under the Hoxie contract. When you come to the Oakes Ames contract 
that is a different thing. 

Q. Mr. Barnes, a witness here, said that he received a dividend on his 
Credit Mobilier stock of 40 shares, said dividend consisting partly of ' 
cash and partly of stock in the Union Pacific Bail way issued to him in 
his own name and not subject to future payments, and he understood 
the same thing was done with each stockholder who stood in the same 
position he did. Is that inaccurate ? — A. Inaccurate so far as he con- 
founds the two contracts. So far as the seven-trustee contract was con- 
cerned, the treasurer of the trustees subscribed and paid the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company such sums as it from time to time wanted, and stock 
therefor was issued in the name of the treasurer of the seven trustees. 
When they came to divide it up they had it transferred on the books of 
the Union Pacific Railway Company, and a new certificate issued to the 
person entitled to the same. 

Q. Then this dividend was made out of fully-paid stock in the Union 
Pacific Railway % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Here are several transfers after March, 186G, and before the com- 
pletion of these contracts, say to the middle of the 3 r ear 1868 f in what 
way did you get at the value of the stock % Here, for instance, is a sale 
to Mr. A. A. Low of one hundred shares in June, 1867. — A. Mr. Low's 
was sold at par. 

Q. Did you make any sales of stock held by you to any person for 
the purpose of inducing that person to go into the Credit Mobilier in 
order to obtain his name, influence, or credit f — A. Only to get his 
money. 

Q. I did not ask you that. Did you make any sales of shares of the 
Credit Mobilier for the sake of obtaining influence, credit, or standing ? — 
A. In making sales we made them to the best parties we could find. I 
never sold anv stock for influence. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 135 

Q. Do you know who Pierrepont H. Foster is % — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know anything about the transaction with Sewall H. Fes- 
senden, who appears to have bought some stock ? — A. I do not. 

Q. You have no knowledge of Mr. Fessenden having been a near rel- 
ative of any influential member of Congress ? — A. None whatever. This 
stock appears to have been issued March 26, 1867. It is evidently issued 
at the time we were selling the increase. Some parties were unable to 
take the increase and sold out, and the new stock would be issued direct 
to the purchaser. 

Q. Is there anything on the books that will show whether such was 
the case in this instance ? — A. I think the other books will explain it. 

Q. You refer to the books that are lost? — A. I do not think they are 
lost. I think they are filed away in a loft in New York, and can be found. 

The following are papers referred to in the foregoing testimony of T. 
0. Durant : 

The" following communication was then received from the vice-pres- 
ident, Mr. Durant : 

New York, November 27, 1868. 
Board of Directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company : 

Gentlemen: I hand you herewith copy of contract and an as- 
signment of the same in trust to the same parties who are trustees for 
the assignees of the Ames contract, the whole subject to the approval 
of the stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad Company. I found 
it absolutely necessary, in order to carry out the wishes of the board, to 
commence work on this portion of the road at once. The present or- 
ganization, with its large outfit of teams, tools, and men, presented the 
most available means of doing the same. To have created an entirely 
new organization would cause so much delay that the programme of 
the company for the year would have been endangered. Should your 
stockholders not sanction the contract, you will have to make some fair 
arrangement with the trustees of the Ames contract for the use of their 
outfit. On the other hand, if approved, the work can go on under the 
same organization as heretofore. Referring the whole subject for your 
action, I remain, very respectfully, yours, &c, 

THOS. C. DURANT, 
Vice-President and General Agent. 

There having been no meeting of your board since the date hereof, 
I hand the report to your executive committee. You will perceive I 
have taken the terms of the Oakes Ames contract as a base, believing 
that to be the wishes of the stockholders who approved said contract. 

Weber, November 1, 1868. 
Sir : I will build and equip, according to the specifications of the con- 
tract made by your company with Oakes Ames, esq., all that portion of 
your road not embraced in the said contract, and west of the same, upon 
the conditions and terms embraced in said contract for the pro-rata price 
per mile, according to the amount of work to be done, which rate shall 
be established by competent engineers, in such manner as your board 
shall determine. 
Yours, &c, 

JAMES W. DAVIS. 
Thos. C. Durant, 

Vice-President and General Agent, Union Pacific Railroad Co. 
Accepted, subject to approval of all the stockholders of Nov. 1. 

THOS. C. DURANT, 
Vice-President and General Agent. 



136 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Weber, November 6, 1868. 

Know all men by these presents, that I, J. W. Davis, do hereby, in 
consideration of one dollar, lawful money of the United States, to me in 
hand paid, and for other considerations to me satisfactory, do hereby 
assign, transfer, and set over to Oliver Ames, Thomas 0. Durant, John 
Duff, Sidney Dillon, H. S. McComb, B. E. Bates, and C. S. Bushnell, 
trustees for the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, 
the contract made with me for building a portion of their road, dated 
November 1, to have and to hold the same as trustees aforesaid, and all 
benefits and profits accruing from the same, they assuming and paying 
all losses and liabilities of every kind ; said profits, if any, to be divided 
pro rata according to the amount of stock held by each stockholder, or 
to which he was entitled on the 1st day of November. This assignment 
and the contract referred to being subject to the approval of the afore- 
said stockholders. 

JAMES W. DAVIS. 

Witness : 

0. L. Frost. 

On motion of Mr. McComb, 
r Resolved, That the report of the vice-president, Mr. Durant, be ac- 
cepted, the contract and assignment approved, and referred to a com- 
mittee, consisting of Messrs. Duff and Bushnell, with instructions to put 
the same in proper form, if any change is desirable, and ascertain if the 
stockholders consent to the same. 

247 miles Hoxie contract $12, 696, 550 87 

Estimated cost of transportation of iron „ . 102, 052 16 

Abandoned line $175, 813 25 

Interest allowed.. . ... 7, 748 81 

183,562 06 

12, 982, 165 09 
713 miles Ames contract and portions 

Davis, per estimate of engineer. „ $55, 391, 363 00 

Cost of equipment, furnished engines, 

buildings, &c 5, 035, 563 00 

60, 426, 926 00 



73, 409, 091 09 



Dividends and allotments as shown by books here. (Copies here.) 

Hoxie contract, cash * $450, 000 

Ames's trustees, cash 3, 375, 000 

Bonds at par 5, 812, 500 

Stock at par 11, 250, 000 

Total 20, 877, 500=28.45 percent. 



Total dividends and allotments. 

Calling bonds at 85 per cent. ) *-„ uft (]0 n_^a ^ ™. 09nf 
Stock at 30 per cent. j kl2,140,b-o_10.o\5 per cent. 

This estimate assumes that the present assets of the u Credit Mobilier 
of America' 7 are worth the par value of the stock. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 137 

In the supreme court of the State of .Rhode Island. 

Isaac P. Hazard et al. } 
vs. > 

TH03IAS C. DURANT ET AL. ) 

Mr. Lainbard offered the following resolution, which was adopted : 
Resolved, That Oliver Ames, president pro tempore, and John J. Cisco, 
treasurer, be a committee to inform themselves in regard to the details 
of the so-called suspense account of this company, also to audit any 
further claims on t this account, and that their statement to this board 
that the facts in the premises are satisfactory to them shall end all fur- 
ther discussion, and that the accounts shall be closed and charged to 
construction. 
Meeting of board of directors, January 4, 1867. 

(Copy.) 

Messrs. Ames and Cisco, a committee appointed by virtue of a reso- 
lution passed at a meeting of the board of directors, of January 4, 1867, 
report as follows : 

Statement of suspense-account. 
1864. 

August 1. T. C. Durant „, $44, 549 45 

August 25. T. C. Durant 4, 000 00 

Sept. 1. T. C. Durant ...... 66, 325 00 

Sept. 14. T. C. Durant 13, 128 13 

Sept, 14. T. C. Durant 6, 500 00 

Sept. 21. C. S. Bushnell 15, 751 63 

Sept. 26. G. T. M. Davis. - 3, 000 00 

Sept. 29. James C. Kennedy 2, 000 00 

Sept. 29. Alexander Hay 4,000 00 

Sept. 30. T.C. Durant 50, 000 00 

Sept. 30. T. C. Durant. . ." 8, 000 00 

March 21. T. C. Durant 30, 000 00 

March 21. T. C. Durant 5, 500 00 

March 21. H. S. McComb : 1, 000 00 

1865. 

Dec. 29. T. C. Durant 112, 000 00 

1866. 

March 30. Special committee 50, 000 00 

May 10. Special committee 20, 000 00 

Total 435, 754 21 



To the Board of Directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company : 

The undersigned, special committee appointed by the resolution of 
this board, passed January 4, 1867, respectfully report that we have 
informed ourselves as to the details of the accounts of which the fore- 
going is a settlement, and have found that the several amounts were 
paid, as above contained, upon proper authority, and that the facts in 
the premises are satisfactory to us. 

OLIVER AMES. 
JOHN J. CISCO. 
New York, September 11, 1867. 



138 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

On motion of Mr. McConib, 

Resolved, That the report of the special committee in respect to cer- 
tain suspense-accounts be approved and adopted, and that said accounts 
be closed, and charged to construction. 



Washington, D. C, January IS, 1873. 

Oliver W. Barnes sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Hoar : 

Question. Where do you reside % — Answer. In New York City. 

Q. Have you at any time held any office either in the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company or the Credit Mobilier ; if so, what office have you 
held, and what has been your personal interest in each company $ — A. 
I was secretary of the Credit Mobilier of Am erica from the first meeting 
of the stockholders, on the 29th of May, 1863, till the 21st of May, 1870. 
I held no office in the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. What personal interest, if any, had you in the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company ? — A. I was a stockholder. 

Q. What amount of stock did you hold % — A. I cannot recollect the 
amount — various amounts at various times. Sometimes I bought stock, 
and sometimes I sold it. 

Q. You speculated in the stock? — A. I made investments sometimes, 
and sold as I thought proper. 

Q. You bought and sold for profit ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Were you a subscriber to the stock originally ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. From whom did you procure the first stock that you held from the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company J — A. I acquired it from the company. 

Q. Without a subscription % — A. I think I purchased it in the market, 
and then it was transferred to me. 

Q. Do you mean that you purchased from a broker % — A. Yes, I pur- 
chased it through a broker in the open market. 

Q. Was the stock which you held ever paid for to the company in 
cash ? — A. I do not know ; I presume it was. 

Q. What was your interest in the Credit Mobilier % — A. I held forty 
shares of stock. I was an original subscriber. 

Q. At what time did you take those forty shares'?— A. In 1864, I 
think. I cannot tell the precise month. 

Q. When did you pay for it? — A. I think I paid for it at that time. 

Q. What dividends have you received on that stock altogether, and 
when was the first dividend paid ? — A. The first -dividend was on the 1st 
January, 1867. 

Q. How much was that ? — A. A dividend of 6 per cent, per annum 
was declared for each year, ending November 1, 1866, and November 1, 
1867, payable in the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, at 30 
per cent, of its par value, in accordance with the circular which I have 
in my hand. This is the official notice of the first dividend. (Appended 
to the testimony.) 

Q. Did you all receive interest at the rate of 14J per cent, per annum, 
and compound interest on it, and six months' interest at 7 per cent. ? — 
A. Yes, whatever is mentioned in that circular. 

Q. Have you any other circulars like this, issued at times of any other 
dividends made by the Credit Mobilier? — A. No, sir; I think that was 
the only printed circular issued in relation to dividends. 

Q. To whom was the money paid in on your original subscription, 



CREDIT MOBILIER AST) UXIOX PACIFIC RAILROAD. 139 

and how was it paid ? — A. That I do not recollect. I think it was paid 
at the New York office. 

Q. In cash? — A. I think so; it is so long ago that I do not recollect. 

Q. Are yon able to tell the committee whether there was any actual 
cash payments made by yon to the original capital of the Credit Mo- 
bilier! — A. Yes, sir; it was all paid in cash, bnt I do Dot recollect at 
what time or the precise amount of the installments. 

Q. Do yon know whether it was paid in one payment, or by install- 
ments! — A. I think it was all paid in one payment. 

Q. How long should you think you had paid out cash for your sub- 
scription before you received this 6 per cent, dividend ! — A. Some three 
years had expired. 

Q. You received for that cash payment to the Credit Mobilier a larger 
amount of the Union Pacific Eailroad stock than the entire amount of 
the cash which you paid in to the Credit Mobilier would represent at 
par ? — A. I think so. 

Q. That is, you received in Union Pacific Eailroad stock, at 30 per 
cent, of its par value, 12 per cent, of your Credit Mobilier stock ? — A. 
Yes; that would be equal-to about 36 per cent. 

Q. Did you receive this 11J per cent, per annum, which would make 
for three years (to say nothing of the compound interest) 43 J per cent. — 
did you receive that in Union Pacific Eailroad stock, or in cash ! — A. 
That was in cash. 

Q. So that, under this resolution, you received 43J per cent, of your 
original subscription in cash, and 30 per cent, in Union Pacific Eailroad 
stock? — A. Yes. 

Q. Were you in the habit of attending the meetings of the executive 
committee of the Credit Mobilier ! — A. No, sir. The principal business 
of the conrpany was done in the city of New York, and I resided at that 
time in Pennsylvania. The Philadelphia office, with which I was con- 
nected, was merely formal. 

Q. What knowledge had you in regard to the transactions of the 
Credit Mobilier other than the receipt of your dividends % — A. I had 
nothing except the reports that were made from the New York office, 
verbally sometimes, and sometimes written, once a year. 

Q. What would those reports consist of? What was their general 
form and character f — A. They were generally a balance-sheet, showing 
the statement of the company's affairs at that time. 

Q. Where are those balance-sheets! — A. I have not any of them; 
they are in the possession of the company in Boston. 

Q. Are they entered on the books! — A. They are not on the Phila- 
delphia books. 

Q. Did they show how the profits were made ? — A. Y'es ; I think they 
did. Mr. Ham kept these accounts. 

Q. What means had you of knowing that the account that was ren- 
dered you of the profits of the Credit Mobilier was a faithful and true 
account ! — A. I had no means of knowing. 

Q. You took the word of the executive committee for that fact ! — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Had you, at the time you went into the Credit Mobilier, any in- 
terest in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 1 — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you go into the Credit Mobilier before it was determined to 
undertake this business of building the Union Pacific Eailroad f — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. State whether at the time it was determined to go into that busi- 



140 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

ness you had any interest in the Union Pacific Railroad Company. — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Had you any tiling to do with the negotiation by which the original 
charter of the Credit Mobilier was acquired by those gentlemen who 
engaged it in the construction of the Union Pacific Railroad I — A. Yes, 
sir ; I had. 

Q. With wlioin was that negotiation made ? — A. The negotiation for 
the charter was made by Thomas C. Durant, through George Francis 
Train, as his agent, with myself and Charles M. Hall, of Philadelphia. 

Q. Give to the committee the history of that negotiation, substan- 
tially. Did any other person take part, on the part of the purchasers, 
except Mr. Train? — A. No, sir; nobody else. We saw nobody else. 
Mr. Train came from New York to Philadelphia, and asked Mr. Hall 
and myself if we controlled that charter, and we said we did. 

Q. At that time had the persons who owned that charter any con- 
siderable amount of money invested in it, or was it a substantially de- ( 
funct organization ? — A. It was a living organization, but it had not 
been used at that time. 

Q. Had the capital stock been paid in ? — A. The first installment had 
been paid in, either 2J or 5 per cent, upon 100 shares. The Duff Green 
payment had never been made. 

Q. Go on and give a history of the negotiation. — A. These men stated 
that they wanted the charter for the purpose of using it in building 
the Union Pacific Railroad, and they were willing to pay us our expenses 
and some consideration for having carried the thing so long as we had; 
and on the payment of this money, we made them a transfer of the stock 
which we held. 

Q. How much did they pay you ? — A. I do not recollect ; I think it 
was $25,000 or $30,000. There had been considerable expense con- 
nected with it, and they repaid this. The amount did not exceed 
$30,000, I think. 

Q. Was it a part of the consideration that you should become stock- 
holders in the new organization"? — A. No, sir; I think not. I think we 
paid for some stock at the time we made the arrangement. We agreed 
to take a certain number of shares ourselves. I took the forty shares 
of which I have already spoken. 

Q. Had you any active part in the concerns of the Credit Mobilier 
after that time, except recording the meetings of the board that took 
place in Philadelphia ? — A. No, sir; I had nothing else to do with it. 
I occasionally attended meetings in New York, but I do not recollect 
any important business being transacted while I was there. 

Q. You say you never knew of the details of the business, so as to 
have any knowledge whether the accounts rendered were correct or 
not ? — A. No, sir ; I did not. 

Q. Had you any knowledge of those changes in the form of the con- 
tract by which it was taken, first by Mr. Ames, and afterward by the 
trustees, for the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier, instead of being 
taken by the Credit Mobilier itself?— A. I knew nothing about it until 
after it was accomplished. 

Q. From whom did you then learn the fact? — A. I signed a paper 
in New York, which it was necessary to sign in order to accomplish it. 

Q. At whose request did you sign that paper ? — A. At the request of 
Mr. Durant. 

Q. What was the avowed reason given to you for that change? — A. 
I do not recollect any definite reason, other than that there had been 
some dispute among the boards of directors of the two companies. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD, 141 

Q. Had there not been a claim, on the part of the State of Pennsyl- 
vania, to tax the dividends which the Credit Mobilier made at that 
time"? — A. Yes. 

Q. And after that claim on the part of the State, were there any far- 
ther Credit Mobilier dividends made directly, as made by the Credit 
Mobilier itself, not by the trustees ? — A. Not after that time. 

Q. Did not these changes of form in that transaction occur soon after 
this claim, made by the authorities of the State of Pennsylvania, to tax 
the dividends ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Was that not the reason of the change in the method of doing the 
business, to escape the taxation of these dividends by the State of 
Pennsylvania f — A. 1 believe they complained a good deal of the taxes 
in Pennsylvania. 

Q. Did you not understand that that was the reason for making this 
change"? — A. I understood that that was one of the reasons; but that 
there were others. 

Q. Did you not understand that that was the principal reason % — A. 
No, sir; not the principal reason. 

Q. What other? — A. The disputes between the two boards of di- 
rectors. 

Q. Were not the controlling powers of the two boards precisely the 
same ? — A. No, sir ; I do not think they were. 

Q. After the contract was transferred to these trustees, what interests 
controlled the Credit Mobilier that did not control the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company? — A. I do not think it was understood that the 
Credit Mobilier controlled the Union Pacific Eailroad Company at that 
time. 

Q. How did you understand that this change from the Credit Mobilier 
to a board of trustees for the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier re- 
moved these disputes between the two boards ? — A. By procuring the 
assent of the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company to a 
new arrangement. 

Q. In other words, you understood that the new arrangement con- 
templated a plan by which the Credit Mobilier, or those who repre- 
sented it, should acquire the control of the Union Pacific Eailroad % — A. 
No, sir ; I did not understand that. 

Q. I ask you how those disputes were ^o be removed by a change in 
the method of transacting the business on behalf of the Credit Mobi- 
lier ? — A. I believe that the assent of all parties interested was to be 
obtained to this arrangement. That is the way the difficulty was solved. 

Q. Was it not a part of this new arrangement that the assent of all of 
the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company should be ob- 
tained by an irrevocable proxy from every one who received a divi- 
dend 1 — A. I believe I signed a paper of that kind. 

Q. No stockholder in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company could re- 
ceive any dividend under this arrangement until he had first accepted 
it as a stockholder in the Credit Mobilier % — A. I do not understand it 
in that way. 

Q. In what way do you understand it % — A. My recollection in regard 
to the details of the arrangement is very obscure. The agreement itself 
is in existence. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. The true understanding of it is in the contract I — A. Yes, sir ; I 
had no other understanding. 

Q. Have you any of the books or the papers of the Credit Mobilier 



142 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

in your custody other than this book of records? — A. No, sir; nothing 
of importance. 

Q. What have you of these papers in the Philadelphia office ? — A. I 
think the papers that relate to the company were all sent to New York. 
I have here the report of the treasurer to the stockholders, made at the 
meeting of May 19, 1866. (Appended to the testimony.) 

Q. What does the word u scrip " here mean? — A. It is some kind of a 
temporary paper in reference to Uoion Pacific Kailroad Company, con- 
vertible at a certain time into stock. 

Q. Where was the stock at that time 1 — A. I do not know what it 
was issued for, or when it was issued. 

Q. Had the Credit Mobilier any Union Pacific Eailroad stock at that 
time, or was it simply an agreement to procure the stock to be issued ? — 
A. As I understood it, it was to be issued in the future by the New 
York agency.) 

Q. That stock, so far as it was issued in the future and received by 
the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier, was always received at a large 
discount, was it not ? — A. I think it was. 

Q. So that, in point of fact, the Credit Mobilier gave to its stock- 
holders an agreement to procure and give to them, at a large discount, 
stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, which had not been is- 
sued at that time, but was to be issued in the future ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What other memoranda have you here ? — A. I have the list of 
stockholders at the annual meetings in May, 1866, '67, and '68 ; and I 
have a circular from the Union Pacific Eailroad Company to its stock- 
holders, dated April 10, 1869. 

(These papers were put in evidence, and are annexed to the evi- 
dence.) 

By the Chairman : 

Q. State from what these lists of stockholders were made. — A. Prom 
the books in the New York office. 

Q. Are you able to give us a list of the present stockholders of the 
Credit Mobilier'? — A. I am not. 

Q. Can you make a list of them from the stock-ledger ? — A. Mr. Ham 
can do so. 

Q. Although secretary of the company, and a stockholder, you had no 
detailed account in print or in writing of the receipts and expenditures 
of the trustees, on which these dividends were made, and you had no 
knowledge of their transactions? — A. I had no knowledge of their 
transactions except from their annual reports. 

Q. And these were merely a balance-sheet ? — A. Merely a balance- 
sheet. 

Q. Showing neither vouchers nor details? — A. No, sir. I had the 
corporate existence of the company in charge. 

Q. And in your capacity as stockholder you had nothing but a state- 
ment of the trustees of the amount which you were entitled to receive 
unless you chose to go to the books in New York, and make an exam- 
ination there? — A. That is all. 

Q. There was no printed or written statement? — A. No, sir. 

Q. There was no publicity given in any form ? — A. No publicity. 

Q. The thing was kept private ? — A. Yes, sir ; outside of the stock- 
holders. 

Q. Have you any of those balance-sheets ? — A. No, sir ; they were 
all turned over to Mr. Ham. 

Q. Are there any books or papers in the Philadelphia office ? — A. No, 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 143 

sir. Most of the books and papers that are in Philadelphia at all, are 
in the custody of Mr. Robert McMurtrie. 

Q. You have no books or papers in the Philadelphia office ? — A. None 
of any importance except those which I have given you. They were all 
turned over to nay successor in Philadelphia. 

Q. Have you any at all, other than those you have produced here % — 
A. No, sir; nothing that I consider of any importance. 

Q. At what rate was this Union Pacific Railroad stock divided among 
the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier after this dividend that you 
spoke of awhile ago? — A. I think that the stock dividends under the 
Oakes Ames contract were made at a much higher rate, some of them 
at par ; but I am not able to speak of that because it is a long time ago. 
There is a paper in existence which gives all that information. I speak 
of the document that sets forth the dividend, and of which this printed 
pamphlet is a copy. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. To whom was the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
issued, which was divided among the stockholders of the Credit Mo- 
bilier ? — A. Mine was issued directly to myself. 

Q. By whom'? — A. By the secretary of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company, Mr. Ham. I think he was acting as secretary at that time. 

Q. How was it with that stock which was divided among other stock- 
holders of the Credit Mobilier as dividends — to whom was that stock 
issued ?-— A. I do not know. 

Q. How did you pay in your assessments on the capital stock of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company, that was issued to you in your own 
name ? — A. That which was received in the way of dividends I did not 
pay anything for, but that which I held outside of dividends I bought 
in the open market. I do not know how that was paid for. 

Q. Do you recollect to whom that which you bought in open market 
was issued ? — A. No, sir ; I do not. 

Q. You got that which you received as dividend at 30 per cent, of its 
par value? — A. Yes. 

Q. Aud you paid for it, simply as a payment of your proportion of the 
dividends of the Credit Mobilier % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And in no other way ? — A. In no other way. 

Q. Do you recollect as a matter of fact how much of the Union Pa- 
Railroad stock you got at all, in that way? — A. No, sir; I do not. 

Q. Can you approximate the amount by memory ? — A. K o, sir ; but 
the information is in existence in tabulated form. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. How many shares of Union Pacific Railroad stock did you receive 
on your forty shares of Credit Mobilier pursuant to that resolution ? — 
A. I think I received fourteen shares, aud scrip for four-tenths of a 
share, in all amounting to $1,440. 

Q. Under the circular of January 2, 1867, which you have furnished, 
did you receive money or stock in dividend ? — A. It was paid in money. 

By Mr. Perry : 

Q. 1 have here a pamphlet in reference to this Credit Mobilier; do 
you know who published it? — A. I thiok it was published by Duff 
Green, or by his sou Benjamin. 

Q. Have you seen it before? — A. I never saw it before. 

Q. From this pamphlet it appears that the act originally incorpo- 



144 CREDIT MOBILIES AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

rating the Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency bears no date ? — A. The original 
act was approved on the 1st of .November, 1859. 

Q. That approval by Governor Packer was after Duff Green had made 
his journey to Mexico ? — A. I think it was. That approval was delayed 
for a considerable length of time after the act was passed. 

Q. He says here, on page 2, that the documents which he brought 
back from Europe (referring to # Duff Green) satisfied Governor Packer, 
who signed the charter on the 1st of November, 1859, and the company 
was organized 5th November, 1859. Are you aware what these docu- 
ments were that he brought back • — A. Yes ; I saw them. 

Q. Do you know what became of them ? — A. They were in the pos- 
session of William G. Moorhead, of Pennsylvania. I think that Gov- 
ernor Packer saw them. 
Q. Do you know where they are now ? — A. No, sir ; I do not. 
Q. This pamphlet, then, purports to set forth the proceedings of a 
meeting held somewhere on the 5th of November, 1859 ; do you know 
where that was ! — A. I do not recollect. I think it was at some place 
in Philadelphia. 

Q. You are the Oliver W. Barnes whose name is mentioned here ? — 
A. Yes. 

Q. Was it at that meeting that you were appointed secretary \ — A. 
That was an attempt at organization by Duff Green, which failed in 
consequence of his not paying up the first installment as the charter 
required. 

Q. It was at that first meeting that you were elected secretary ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. This meeting adjourned to meet at 11 a. m. on Monday, November 
7. Then follows the subscription paper, (page 11 :) 

u Duff Green, five thousand shares ; Oliver W. Barnes, for self and 
associates, two thousand shares; David K. Porter, for self and associates, 
five hundred shares; Samuel B. Brooks, for myself and associates, five 
thousand shares ; William Halsted, five hundred shares; Duff Green, 
thirty-seven thousand shares." 

If I understood your answer to me correctly, there was no five per 
cent, paid on any of these subscriptions ! — A. No, sir; not at that time. 
At that attempted organization nothing was paid in on the stock. 
Q. Here is a certificate, (page 11 :) 

" Whereas the undersigned, being a majority of the persons named in 
the act entitled 'An act to incorporate the Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency,' 
as commissioners to open books of subscription to the capital stock of 
the company, did, on the 5th day of November, 1859, open books of 
subscription in the city of Philadelphia, and thereupon Duff Green sub- 
scribed for five thousand shares ; Oliver W. Barnes, for self and asso- 
ciates, two thousand shares ; David B. Porter, for self and associates, 
five hundred shares; Samuel B. Brooks, for myself and associates, live 
thousand shares; William Halsted, five hundred shares ; and Duff 
Green, thirty-seven thousand shares; and Duff Green having paid to 
William Halsted, the person by us appointed as treasurer, with author- 
ity to receive the same, the sum of twenty-five thousand dollars, being 
the sum of five per centum on his subscription of five thousand shares ; 
we hereby certify that the said Duff Green ; Oliver W. Barnes, for self 
and associates; David B. Porter, for self and associates; Samuel B. 
Brooks, for myself and associates ; AYilliam Halsted, and Duff Green, 
have subscribed for the number of shares of the capital stock, as above 
stated, in the Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency, and that Duff Green having 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 145 

paid the sum of five per cent, on five thousand shares, the said share- 
holders are authorized to elect five or more directors, and that the books 
of subscription are closed. 

" DUFF GREEK. 

"CHAS. M. HALL, 
"By DUFF GREEN, his proxy. 

"DAVID R. PORTER. 

"ASA PACKER, 
" By DAVID R. PORTER, his proxy. 

"WILLIAM T. DOUGHERTY, 
" By DAVID R. PORTER, his proxy. 

"ISAAC HUGHES, 
"By DAVID R. PORTER, his proxy. 

" OLIVER W. BARNES, 
"For C. L. WARD, by proxy. 

"J. ZIEGLER. 

" HENRY M. FULLER. 

" J. B. LIPPINCOTT, 
" For C. M. REID, by proxy." 

Your name does not appear to be attached to that certificate in your 
own right ? — A. Yes. 

Q. If I understood you, you could not have signed that in your own 
right, certifying payment, because no payment had been made. — A. Yes, 
but we were deceived. We supposed that the payment was a good one, 
but it was not. The check which Duff Green gave at that time proved 
to be without foundation. :: r-r 

Q. How soon after that did you ascertain that the check was not 
good ? — A. A long time afterward. 

Q. Do you know whether that percentage was paid over to the gov- 
ernor of Pennsylvania on the first installment? — A. No, sir, not at that 
time. There was no payment made to the governor for some time after 
that. 

Q. Was there any payment made to the governor before the second 
organization in 1863 ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was there any other meeting of that corporation held before its 
re-organization in 1863? — A. I think there was another call issued, and 
adjourned meetings held from time to time. 

Q. Then this book purported to be the record which you kept ? — A. 
Yes, that is the book kept by me. 

Q, The first entry here is of a meeting of stockholders of the Pennsyl- 
vania Fiscal Agency, held at the office of Oliver W. Barnes, in Phil- 
adelphia, on the 29th May, 1863, for the purpose of selecting six direct- 
ors ? — A. Yes. That does not contain the minutes of the organization. 
The organization of course preceded the election of the directors. That 
book is in the custody of the company somewhere, I do not know where. 

Q. Are you i>ositive that there was any meeting of the stockholders 
or directors after the time of this meeting of November 7, 1859, before 
this meeting of May 29, 1863 ? — A. Yes ; there were meetings of the 
corporators, and there were directors elected. 

Q. HaVe you any records of those meetings? — A. There were records 
of them ; I do not know where they are at present. They were deposited 
in the New York office at the same time that the other books were 
brought there. 

Q. When was the first meeting held after the 7th November, 1859? — 
10 c M 



146 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

A. That I cannot answer without the books. It was some time after- 
ward, at least two years. 

Q. Do you recollect who were present at the meeting I — A. No ; I do 
not. 

Q. When was the next meeting after that one which you think took 
place at least two years after the meeting of November, 1^59 ? — A. I do 
not recollect. 

Q. Was there another meeting down to the time of the meeting just 
preceding this for the purpose of organization ? — A. I think there was a 
meeting, not just preceding it, but probably a year before these minutes 
were written. 

Q. That would bring it to 1881.— A. I think it was probably in 1S61 
or 1862, after the war broke out. 

Q. Were the proceedings of that meeting kept in'a book like this? — 
A. I think they were kept in a separate book. It was a meeting of the 
commissioners. There were one or two meetings after the organization 
of the company. Duff' Green brought a suit against the company after 
that for the charter-privileges. The whole of this subject has been ad- 
judicated in Pennsylvania, and it was decided that Duff Green had not 
effected any organization at that time, and that the organization made 
subsequent to that was not a real organization. The question has 
already been adjudicated and disposed of. 

Q. Did the case go to the supreme court of Pennsylvania? — A. I do 
not know that it went to the supreme court. At all events it has not 
been pressed since the decision was made. 

Q. I have here in this pamphlet a paper marked " number 10," of 
May 29, 1863, which I will read to you : 

" Certificate of proceedings at second subscription, made 29th May, 
1863. 

u We, the undersigned, a majority of the commissioners authorized 
by an act entitled 'An act to incorporate the Pennsylvania Fiscal 
Agency,' approved the 1st day of November, A. D. 1859, do certify 
that at a meeting of said commissioners, held in Philadelphia, on the 
29th day of May, A. D. 1863, books of subscription were opened, and 
Charles M. Hali was appointed treasurer, and the following subscrip- 
tions of stock were made, and the first installment of 5 per cent, upon 
5,015 shares, amounting to $25,075, actually paid in, in cash, to wit: 
Samuel T. Billmeyer, Germantown, 4 shares; Oliver W. Barnes, Phila- 
delphia, 2,496 shares; Charles M. Hall, Philadelphia, 2,495 shares; E. 
Beed Myer, Philadelphia, 5 shares; Dnane Williams, Philadelphia, 3 
shares; Charles Williams, Philadelphia, 3 shares; Samuel L. Clements, 
Philadelphia, 3 shares; David R. Porter, Harrisburgh, Pennsylvania, 
320 shares." 

I see that you are a subscriber here for 2,496 shares ? — A. Yes. 

Q. You paid in the 5 per cent, on those shares? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Inferentially you had just abandoned the old organization as a 
nullity?— A. Yes. ' 

Q. And the same commissioners that were named in the act opened a 
book of subscription again? — A. They were . convened bf notice; a 
notice was mailed to all the commissioners, aud they were convened in 
Philadelphia a second time. 

Q. And opened books for subscription again, as if there had been 
nothing done before? — A. Yes; they treated the other as a nullity. 

Q. Was that before or after you had sold the control of your charter 
to Mr. D u rant and others? — A. It was before that. 



CREDIT MOBILTER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 147 

Q. Had there been any negotiations at that time ? — A. No, sir ; Mr. 
Durant had not heard or it at that time. 

Q. You spoke of a meeting prior to the 29th May, 18G3, which is tlie 
day when these subscriptions were made. That must have been a 
meeting of the old corporators? — A. No, sir; that is the meeting that 
I alluded to. I thought it was longer anterior to that, but I see it was 
on the same date. 

*Q. Then there would have been, so far as you recollect, but the one 
meeting from the meeting of the 7th -November, 1859, about two years 
after that? — A. The commissioners frequently met at my office and 
talked this matter over, but no formal meeting was held until that 
meeting. 

Q. There was no call of stockholders ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was that meeting which took place about two years after Novem- 
ber, 1859, a formal one? — A. No; it was simply a talking of the thing 
over. 

Q. Do you recollect how many commissioners were present ? — A. I 
do not recollect, but I suppose there were five or six, perhaps. 

Q. But there were no formal proceedings, and nothing was recorded ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Then if you could get the books from New York, they would show 
nothing as transpiring in the company from the time of the original 
meeting, in 1859, down to this one? — A. No, sir; they would show 
nothing. 

Q. Do you recollect, or does your book show anywhere, how many of 
the original corporators were present at the meeting at which this re- 
organization took place ? — A. No, sir ; I do not know of any records, ex- 
cept this, that would show it. 

Q. Then, if I understand you correctly, we get here a connected account 
of all the official meetings of the stockholders ? — A. Yes. 

Q. About how long after this meeting of 29th May, 1863, was the 
negotiation made with Mr. Durant ? — A. Mr. Durant's purchase of the 
control was made the 3d March, 1864. 

Q. How long before the actual purchase was the negotiation com- 
menced ? — A. One day before ; that was the first we ever heard of Mr. 
Durant. 

Q. The transfer, 1 suppose, consisted in the transfer of the controlling 
interest in the stock ? — A. It was a transfer of the original subscrip- 
tions. They paid us back our investments, and we gave them an assign- 
ment of the stock. We assigned the whole of it over to them, and then 
we bought some back. 

Q. Did you buy it back at that time? — A. Yes; I think so. The 
transaction was all made that one day. 

Q. How many shares did you buy back? — A. Forty. 

Q. You were re-elected in the new organization secretary of the new 
company? — A. Yes, sir. 

• Q. And you continued as secretarv down to what time I — A. Down to 
May 21, 1870. 

Q. If I understood your answer to Mr. Hoar, all. the business meet- 
ings of. the company, after this sale to Mr. Durant, were conducted in 
New York ?— A. Yes, sir.' 

Q. And all the records of those business meetings which appear on 
this Pennsylvania record were sent to you from New York? — A. Yes, 
sir ; that book was taken over to New York on some occasions. 

Q. Every business meeting of the company for the transaction of 
business, after your sale, was held in New York ? — A. Yes, sir. 



148 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. And whatever the records show, whether they show where the 
meeting was held or not, it was held in fact in New York ? — A. Yes. 

Q. But you kept up the organization in Philadelphia ? — A. Yes ; the 
corporate existence was kept up in Pennsylvania. 

Q. How was that done % — A. By a majority of the board of directors 
/being Pennsylvania gentlemen. Every election of directors, as you will 
see by the books, was held in Philadelphia. 

Q. At those meetings they simply elected the officers ? — A. That was 
all. The executive committee was also elected at those meetings. 

Q. Then that was the only quality of meetings which was held in 
Pennsylvania from the time you sold % — A. Yes. 

Q. There was another kind of committee appointed j what did they 
call it ? — A. A railway bureau. 

Q. Was that different from the executive committee % — A. Yes. 

Q, That was not elected in Pennsylvania 1 — A. No, sir ,• that railway 
bureau was selected by the executive committee. 

Q. Does your book show what the duties of that railway bureau 
were 1 — A. No, sir. 

Q. Explain to us about the purport and scope of the duties of that 
railway bureau. — A. I cannot tell very well. It had charge more par- 
ticularly of the construction of the Union Pacific Eailroad ; the pur- 
chase of materials ; the transportation of the materials to the road j the 
auditing of payments, and matters of that kind. 

Q. That bureau was made up in part of stockholders of the Credit 
Mobilier and in part of the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad ? — - 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. It was not exclusive to either ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Now, in point of fact, do you not understand that the duties of 
that bureau substantially covered all that was done by that railway 
company 1 — A. Yes. 

Q. Do you know whether there were any books in which these pro- 
ceedings were kept? — A. There was a book in which these proceedings 
were kept. 

Q. Do you know where it is ? — A. I do not. It was kept by the sec- 
retary, J. M. S. Williams, of Boston. It was kept in New York. It was 
a book very much like this one, (indicating.) 

Q. When did you see it last f — A. Several years ago ; about the time 
of the Fisk suits in New York. 

Q. Where was it ? — A. It was in the office of the company of New 
York at that time. 

Q. Then if I get a correct idea from your testimony, the officers of 
the company were elected — that is, the ordinary nominal officers of the 
company — in Pennsylvania, including the executive committee ? — A. 
Yes. 

Q. And that executive committee elected the railway bureau J — A* 
Yes, sir. 

Q. And that railway bureau had charge substantially of all the busi-' 
ness of the company f — A. All the detailed business of the company. 
The executive committee had charge of the larger fiscal transactions, 
and the railway bureau had charge of the construction of the road, 
payments, &c. 

Q. But there was absolutely nothing done in Pennsylvania at the 
meetings of the stockholders there that really controlled the operations 
of the company ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. And the stockholders were in no other way consulted than as they 
occasionally voted for the officers in Philadelphia f — A. Yes, whenever 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 149 

any meetings took place in Philadelphia there were always enough New 
York gentlemen to give direction to the proceedings that were taken. 
Nothing was done except at their request. 

Q. The corporation then was a sort of shell, under which this bureau 
operated % — A. Not exactly a shell. We had a majority of the board in 
Pennsylvania at all times, but we delegated our powers to the New York 
agency. 

Q. And the transactions were actually made by the New York 
agency ? — A. Yes. Nevertheless we had a majority of the directors ia 
Pennsylvania, and could have transacted it there if we had chosen to 
do so. 

Q. But in point of fact that majority of directors delegated their 
powers to the agency in New York % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That agency consisted of the executive committee? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And through that executive committee of this railway bureau? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The books of the company proper kept by you, as the secretary, 
scarcely show any of the transactions of the company. — A. They merely 
maintain the corporate existence of the company. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. What was the average amount of stock subscribed to the Penn 
sylvania Fiscal Agency prior to the sale to Mr. Durant ? — A: Five thou 
sand three hundred and fifteen shares. 

Q. On that there was paid in, prior to the sale to Mr. Durant, 2J per 
cent. ? — A. Either 2J or 5 per cent., whichever the law required. I do 
not recollect now. I think it was 5 per cent. 

Q. Are you still a stockholder of the Credit Mobilier 1 — A. Yes. 

Q. Have you stated the whole amount of the dividends which you 
have received on that stock % — A. No, sir ; I have not. 

Q. Can you do so now % — A. I cannot. The lists that are in evidence 
show it. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. State whether any member of Congress has at any time been em- 
ployed as attorney of the Credit Mobilier. — A. I know that there has 
not been any member of Congress 'employed as attorney for the Credit 
Mobilier. 

Q. Do you know whether there has been any member of Congress 
employed as attorney for the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — 
A. I do not know of any member of Congress having been employed as 
attorney for the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. Do you know of any sum or sums of money that have been paid, 
by the Union Pacific Railroad Company or Credit Mobilier, or by any 
person in connection with either, to any member of Congress for any 
purpose whatever % — A. There has been no money paid by the Credit 
Mobilier to any member of Congress, to my knowledge. 

Q. Has there been by the Union Pacific Railroad Company? — A. Not 
to my knowledge. 

Q. Have there been any sums of money paid to any members of Con- 
gress, by any person connected with the Credit Mobilier or Union Pacific 
Railroad Company for such purpose, of which you have any knowledge, 
either as stockholder or officer ? — A. I do not know of any money 
having been paid by the Credit Mobilier to any member of Congress, 
except to Mr. Brooks, for interest on temporary loans. .1 understand that 
he loaned the company, at various times, money, and that he was paid 
interest on that money. 



150 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. What sums of money had Mr. Brooks loaned to the Credit Mobi- 
lier? — A. I do not know. Mr. Ham had charge of the books. 

Q. Do you know the rate of interest that was paid to him! — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know of any individual connected with the Credit Mobi- 
lier paying any sum of money to any member of Congress? — A, No, sir. 

Q. Or connected with the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. Do you know of any sum of money having been used by either of 
these corporations, or by any person connected with either of these cor- 
porations, to influence any election of any member of Congress or of the 
Senate of the United States'? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you ever heard that anything of that sort had been done ? — 
A. I never heard of money being used for any such purpose. 

Q. Do you know of any sum or sums having been used for the purpose 
of procuring either the acceptance of the road by the Government or 
the issuing of bonds by the Government, or for anything else in con- 
nection with the executive department of the Government ? — A. I never 
knew of any such payment. I never heard of it. 

Q. Either by the corporations or by any person connected with 
them ? — A. I never heard of it. 

Q. Do you know anything of money being paid over by the Credit 
Mobilier to agents to be used? — A. No, sir; I do not. 

Q. Do you know of any agents being employed by the Credit Mobi- 
lier with reference to matters appertaining to either of these companies f 
— A. No, sir. 

Q. You never were an officer of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. And you know nothing of the details of the business ? — A. Ex- 
cept as a stockholder and by hearsay. 

Q. Do you know anything of the employment of Joseph B. Stewart 
in connection with the affairs of that corporation ? — A. Only from hear- 
say. 

Q. From whom did you hear anything on that subject ? — A. From Mr. 
Durant. 

Q. And what information did Mr. Durant give you in relation to 
him?— A. He told me that he had employed him to settle with persons 
who were interested in other lines of railroad, particularly the Leaven- 
worth and Pawnee. 

Q. How long is it since he gave you that information ? — A. Five or 
six years ago. 

Q. Did he tell you about having employed a man named Hay ?— A. 
He told me he had employed several persons; I do not recollect their 
names nor much about the details. 

Q. Did he tell you the amount of money handled by those persons ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. How happened he to tell you about these men? — A. It was in a. 
general conversation. 

Q. Was there at that time a controversy in reference to the suspended 
account in the affairs of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ?— A. Not 
at that particular time. There had been a discussion about it before 
that time. ' • . 

Q. Was it that suspended account which gave rise to this conversa- 
tion ?— A. No, sir ; it was just a casual conversation. It had nothing 
to do with that suspended account. 

Q. Have you any knowledge or information in reference to any money 
being paid to Senator Harlan ? — A. No, sir. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILEOAD. 151 

Q. Have you any knowledge or information of any being paid to Mr. 
Harlan while be was Secretary of the Interior? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any money having being paid, directly or indi- 
rectly, to any commissioners with reference to the Union Pacific Rail- 
road ? — A. No, sir ; I do not. 

Q. Did you ever hear of it? — A. I never heard of money being paid. 

Q. Did you ever hear it rumored about that money had been paid? — 
A. No, sir $ I never did. 

Q. Do you know Mr. Hoxie, who had a contract ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know where he lives ? — A. I do not know where he lives 
at present. 

Q. Do you recollect his having a contract with the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Do you know where he lived at that time? — A. In Omaha, I be- 
lieve. 

Q. Was he reputed to be a man of means ? — A. I think he was. 

By Mr. Shell abak gee, : 

Q. Do you know anything about some stock being put into Mr. Ames's 
hands for the purpose of distribution or to enable him to comply with 
existing engagements ? — A. I only know by hearing it spoken of in the 
office. 

Q. You know nothing about the details ?— A. I know nothing about 
the details. 

Q. You cannot tell where he was to place it ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. State precisely what you heard spoken of on the subject and by 
whom ?— A. I think I heard Mr. McComb speak of it and Mr. Crane. 
He said that Mr. Ames had received a certain amount of stock of the 
Credit Mobilier, in trust, to deliver to certain parties, to whom he had 
agreed to furnish it. 

Q, What was that certain amount? — A. Something over three hun- 
dred shares, I think. 

Q. What was the date of that statement ? — A. I cannot remember 
the date from recollection. • 

Q. Was it before or after he had distributed it ? — A. I do not know 
anything about his having distributed it at all. fc 

Q. Was it before or after it was put into his hands in that trust? — A. 
It was after that. 

Q. How long after ! — A. Probably within a year after. I do not 
recollect the dates. 

Q. Was it before or after the controversy ? — A. It was about the time 
of the controversy over the stock. Mr. McComb claimed it, and Mr. 
Ames refused to give it to him, I believe. 

Q. What was the ground of Mr. McComb's claim ? — A. He claimed 
to have subscribed and paid for it. 

Q. By whom was that stock put into Mr. Ames's hands ?-^ A. Tha I 
do not know. 

Q. Was it by act of the corporation ! — A. No, sir ; not by any action 
which came under my observation. 

Q. Was it by act of the seven trustees ? — A. It may have been done 
by the officers of the Credit Mobilier in the city of New York. 

Q. Did Mr. Ames in that controversy between him and McComb claim 
that he had distributed all of it according to prior engagements? — A. 
It was stated that he had not distributed any of it. . I understood the 
statement to be that none of it had been distributed, and Mr. McComb 
desired it to be returned. 



152 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. But did Mr. Ames claim that lie had, in fact, distributed it as he 
was bouud to do i — A. I never heard Mr. Ames make any such state- 
ment. 

Q. Was it stated who was entitled to that distribution from Mr. 
Ames ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You can give us no information on that subject ? — A. No, sir. I 
know nothing about it. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. Are you connected, in any way, with the Wyoming Coal Com- 
pany? — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar: 

Q. State whether you have any knowledge of the Credit Mobilier or 
any of its stockholders or trustees being connected with the construc- 
tion of any other railroad, except the Union Pacific Railroad, in which 
the Government has an interest.— A. I know of no such connection 
with any railroad in which the Government has an interest. 

Q. Or any railroad to which the Government has made grants or 
given aid ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Or given aid in any form ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know of their being connected with the construction of 
any railroad at all ? (I will not qualify the question.) — A. I think that 
several of the gentlemen are interested in other railroads. 

Q. Be good enough to state the names of all the railroads in which, 
so far as you know, any of these gentlemen have had an interest in the 
construction. — A- I cannot do that. My remark is only general. 

Q. Have you yourself any such interest ? — A. O, yes. I have been 
engaged in several other railroads since that time. 

Q. What other railroads have you been concerned in the construction 
of? — A. I am a civil engineer by profession, and I have been engaged in 
several other railroads. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Were you employed as engineer on the Union Pacific Railroad ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. State whether the Credit Mobilier had any other source of revenue, 
or whether it derived any stock, bonds, or money from any other source, 
except the construction of the Union Pacific Railroad. — A. No, sir. It 
has transacted no other business except the construction of the Union 
Pacific Railroad. 

Q. All its resources were derived from that and from its capital 
stock? — A. Yes, sir; there was a contract existing among the principal 
stockholders that it should not engage in any other business. 

Q. Do you know where that contract is? — A. Here it is. (Producing 
it.) 

. By Mr. Perry : 
Q. Were you personally cognizant of the proxies given by the^stock- 
holders of the Union Pacific Railroad Company to the managers of the 
Credit Mobilier ? — A. I gave my own ; I do not know of any others. I 
know that the proxies were given, but I do not recollect much about 
the details of the matter. They were given to the executive committee. 
They were permanent proxies. 

By the CHAIRMAN : 
Q. Where are the books of this railway bureau to be found now ? — 
A. They should be in the custody of Mr. J. M. S. Williams, of Boston. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 153 

He was secretary to the railway bureau. I think it was a general cor- 
poration, composed partly of Credit Mobilier stockholders and partly of 
Union Pacific Railroad stockholders. 

By Mr. Perry : 
' Q. By these proxies given to the executive committee of the 
Credit Mobilier, that executive committee operating without action of 
the directors, through the railway bureau, dictated the whole business 
of the two companies ? — A. Yes ; the powers were delegated in that 
way. 

By Mr. Shell abarger : 

Q. In what form were those powers delegated f — A. By resolution of 
the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier. I am not able to say how the 
powers of the Union Pacific Railroad Company were delegated, but the 
powers of the Credit Mobilier were delegated at each annual meeting by 
the stockholders passing a resolution forming the executive committee. 

Q. State whether the stock in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
which was divided to the other stockholders of the Credit Mobilier as 
dividends was similar to that which was issued to you ; in this, that it 
was issued in their own names ? — A. Yes, sir ; it was issued in the same 
way. 

Q. Do you know whether the other divisions of stock which were 
made to the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier were made at the same 
rate per cent, or that they varied ? Thirty per cent, was the rate about 
which you testified. — A. No ; the rates were different at different times. 

Q. Whatever the value was in the market at the time of the divis- 
ions ? — A. Yes, sir ; or what was supposed to be the market value of 
stock at the time the divisions were made. 

Q. Then each of the divisions of the stock of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company that were made by the Credit Mobilier to its stockholders 
was made by issuing stock to them in their own names % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the payment for that stock was made in the same way as you 
have testified, by being a credit on their shares in the Credit Mobilier ? — 
A. The certificates were made out in advance. We signed the receipts, 
and the certificates were delivered to us. 

Q. And that was the only payment ever made upon' the stock that 
was divided to the members of the Credit Mobilier 1 — A. I believe so. 
The stock had been acquired by the Credit Mobilier in its corporate ca- 
pacity, and then divided. 

Q. But when it was issued it was issued in the names of the persons 
who got the dividends f — A. I think so. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Were the offices of the two corporations held in the same place ? — 
A. The agency of the Credit Mobilier was in the adjoining room to the 
offices of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, at 20 Nassau street, New 
York. They were connecting rooms. 

Q. When the Credit Mobilier, or the trustees of the stockholders of 
tbe Credit Mobilier, declared a dividend in Union Pacific Railroad stock, 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company issued certificates directed to their 
shareholders? — A. That I am not able to say. There may have been 
an intermediate certificate issued in gross to the Credit Mobilier, and 
that may have been subdivided by the officers of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company to meet these dividend payments. But whether 
there was an actual delivery of the stock in gross for 'the whole amount 
to the Credit Mobilier, I am not able to state. 



154 CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD, 

By Mr. ShellabAeger : 
Q. If there was such an issuance in gross, that must have been taken 
up and consolidated, and new issues made to the individual stockhold- 
ers who became entitled to the dividend? — A. That would have been 
the correct and usual mode of doing it — to subdivide the certificate and 
surrender the gross one. 

The following are the papers referred to by the witness in his testi- 
mony: 

Credit Mobilier of America, New York Agency, 

20 Nassau street, January 2, 1867. 

■ , Esq. 

Dear Sir: At a meeting of the executive committee of the board of 
directors of this company, held at this agency, on the 28th day of De- 
cember last, the following resolutions were adopted, viz : 

Resolved, That in order to eqiializethe date of payment to increase stock subscription 
made under agreement of February 29, 1867, interest be allowed to each subscriber 
from the date of payment to July 1, 1867, at the rate of 14-J per cent, per annum, and 
interest on the amount so allowed each subscriber, from July 1, 1867, to January 1, 
1868, at the rate of 7 per cent, per annum ; and the secretary and treasurer be instructed 
to make statement of, and pay to each subscriber, the amount under this resolution, 

Resolved, That a dividend of 6 per cent, per annum be, and is hereby, declared for 
each of the years ending the 1st day of November, 1866 and 1867, payable iu stock of 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company, at 30 per cent, of its par value, to the registered 
stockholders of this day. 

In conformity with the above resolutions, interest and dividend state- 
ments have been prepared, and will be paid on application to the under- 
signed. 

Eespectfully, 

BENJAMIN F. HAM, 
Assistant Secretary and 'Treasurer. ' 

Report of the treasurer to the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier of America. 

The treasurer begs leave to report that since the last annual meeting 
at Philadelphia the company have been vigorously prosecuting the con- 
struction of the Union Pacific Eailroad under contract, and have ex- 
pended up to the present time, as shown by the books of the company, 
about $3,500,000 ; have completed some seventy miles of road, with 
some one hundred and fifty miles ready for superstructure, and have a 
large lot of material and supplies on hand. On 3d March last, by reso- 
lution of the board of directors, with the approval of the stockholders, 
the capital stock of the company was increased to $2,500,000, the whole 
amount being subscribed for and nearly all paid in. 

The total receipts up to this date were- — 

Capital stock $2, 365, 915 00 

Union Pacific Eailroad Company 2, 633, 162 31 

Sundry accounts 125, 361 46 

Total 5, 124, 438 77 

The total disbursements 

Construction contract $3, 433, 574 03 

Stock Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 515", 410 00 
Scrip Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 848,172 50 

Interest account • 185, 754 33 

Sundry account 141, 527 91 

. . 5, 124, 438 77 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 155 

For any details of the business affairs of the company, the treasurer 

respectfully refers to the books at its agency in the city of New York. 

H. C. CRANE, 
Assistant Treasurer Credit Mobilier of America. 
May 1, 18GG. 

Accepted, approved, and ordered to be filed among papers of the 
company. 

O. W. BARNES, 

Secretary. 

List of stockholders of Credit Mobilier, May 18, 18GG. 

Shares. 

Charles M. Hall 5 

Oliver W. Barnes 40 

Thomas C. Dnrant G, 041 

George Francis Train 125 

L. E. French 20 

John Duff 1,250 

Charles A. Lambard 1, 250 

Sidney Dillon 025 

W. T. Glidden , . . 625 

J. M. S. Williams 625 

Williams & Guion. 250 

H. W. Gray 25 

R. G. Hazard u 1, 250 

O. S. Chapman 312 

D. R. Porter 10 

Oliver Ames 3, 125 

C. S. Bushnell 750 

W. H. Macy 250 

J. H. Scran ton „ 5 

G. G. Gray 1, 267 

Joseph Nickerson , 250 

Benjamin Holladay 500 

Benjamin E. Bates 600 

Frederick Nickerson 250 

John B. Alley 500 

J. P. Hazard „ 250 

W. D. Forbes 100 

Samuel Hooper & Co 500 

Horatio Gilbert 125 

H. J. Gilbert 87 

C. H. McCormick 625 

David Jones , 250 

Oakes Ames „ 900 

Elisha Atkins 312 

Ezra H. Baker 313 

H. S. McComb 500 

Paul Pohl, jr , 6 

James W. Grimes 250 

Thomas Nickerson : 100 

E. Reed Mver : 20 

George Opdy ke ., „ 462 

J. Bard well 250 

Total 25, 000 



156 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

I hereby certify that above list comprises the stockholders of this 
coinpanv as shown by the books of the New York agency. 

BEKJ. F. BUNKER, 

Assistant Secretary. 
New York, May, 1866. 

Stock-list of tits Credit Mobilier of America, May 17, 1867. 

Shares. 

Andrews, Frank W 100 

Atkins, Elisha . 622 

Alley, John B 500 

Ames, Oliver 4, 685 

Ames, Oakes „ 1, 330 

Barnes, Oliver W 10 

Bates, Benjamin E 500 

Baker, Ezra H 473 

Bard well, J 480 

B ushnell, C. S 910 

Bowman, A. H „ 150 

Bristol, W. B. 50 

Beard, Sylvester M - , 100 

Beard, Eli 100 

Bradford, G. 100 

Chapman, O. S 312 

Cumminjrs, W. A . 100 

Crane, H. C ., 90 

Day, W. F., cashier in trnst 100 

Dana, Samuel T 100 

Dillon, Sidney 945 

Durant, Thos. C 5, 558 

Duff, John Robertson 1. 180 

French, L. E 20 

French, Charles H 160 

Fessenden, Sewall H . . , w . 50 

Foster, Pierpont B 50 

Glidden, W. T , . .\ , - . 625 

Gray, H. W 25 

Gray, G. G 1, 287 

Gilbert, Horatio , 185 

Gilbert, H. J 137 

Grimes, James W 380 

Gilmore, E. W ' 150 

Hall, Charles M 15 

Hazard, B. G 1, 618 

Hazard, I. P 380 

Hazard, Elizabeth 34 

Hazard, Elizabeth, trustee 13 

Hazard, Anna. 20 

Hazard, Mary P ! - 10 

Hazard, Rowland .... 372 

Holladay, Ben : 500 

Hooper, Samuel & Co - 750 

Horner, A nna 1 

Hotchkiss, Henry 150 

Jenks, Barton H , 500 

Jones, David 250 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILAOAD. 157 

Shares. 

King, John L. . . . : , 80 

Lambard, Charles A 1, 400 

Low, A. A 100 

Lockwood, Le Grand . ' 500 

Macy, W. H 375 

McCormick, O. H ; 945 

McOomb, H. S 750 

Myer, E. Eeed 20 

Nickerson, Jos 380 

Nickerson, Frederick - 250 

Nickerson, Thomas 150 

Opdyke, George ; 712 

Pohl, Paul, jr 6 

Pi got, J. B 200 

Peck, Nathan 100 

Bobbins, Royal E 200 

Scranton, J. H 5 

Stewart, Benedict D . 5 

Sanford, Harvey - « 125 

Train, George Francis - . . - 115 

Trowbridge, Henry 75 

Trowbridge, Ezekiel H , 50 

Torrey, Lydia , 11 

Vernon, Sophia. , , . . . 1 

Williams, J. M. 8 620 

Williams & Guion 380 

Waite, O. G 50 



Total ; 34, 482 



Thirty-four thousand four hundred and eighty-two shares. 
The above is a true and eorrect stock-list as shown by the books of this 
company at this office. 

BENJ. F. BUNKER, 

Assistant Secretary. 
New York, May 17, 1867. 

Memorandum : Oliver Ames, this 18th day of May, 1867, previous to 
the election of directors, transferred to Robert G. S. McNeille, of Phila- 
delphia, five shares of the capital stock of the Credit Mobilier of America. 

OLIVER W. BARNES, 

Secretary. 

List of stockholders of the Credit Mobilier of America, May 16, 1868. 

Shares. 

Alley, John B 290 

Ames, Oakes .*. « - 1, 955 

Ames, Oliver. . . . '. 4, 680 

Ames, Oakes, trustee „ 343 

Andrews, Frank W 100 

Atkins, Elisha 622 

Baker, Ezra H :..,. 623 

Baker, Ezra H., jr 50 



158 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Shares. 

Bardwell, Josiali , 730 

Bardwell, Josiah, trustee 300 

Barnes, Oliver W „ * 15 

Bates, Benjamin E „ 500 

Beard, Sylvester M .. „ . . ........ 100 

Beard, Eli. 100 

Blood, Henry 4 

Boyer, B. M 75 

Bradford, Gamaliel 100 

Bristol, William B 50 

Bushnell, Cornelius J ,. , , 510 

Chapman, Oliver J 412 

Charlick, Oliver 3 

Crane, Henry C 128 

Crane, Henry C, trustee 180 

Cummings, William A 4 100 

Davies, John M „ 500 

Dillon, Sidney 1, 005 

Dodge, Anna M , 100 

Duff, John B 1, 880 

Durant, Thomas C... 5,658 

Fessenden, Sewall H 50 

Foster, Pierpont B „ 50 

French, L. Eugene 20 

Gardner, John, trustee 625 

Gilbert, Horatio 185 

Gilbert, Horatio J 137 

Gilmon, E. W 150 

Glidden, William T 625 

Gray, G. Griswold a 1, 350 

Grimes, James W 380 

Hazard, Bowland G 1, 610 

Hazard, Isaac P „ . . . . . . . . 380 

Hazard, Bowland 380 

Hazard, Elizabeth * , 34 

Hazard, Elizabeth, trustee 13 

Hazard, Anna 20 

Hazard, Mary P «... 10 

Hedden, Josiah „ k 100 

Hobart, Aaron, jr , 25 

Holladay, Benjamin , 750 

Hooper, Samuel & Co 750 

Horner, Anna ., 1 

Hotchkiss, Henry „ § 150 

Johnston, James B 200 

Jones, David 380 

King, John L 80 

Lambard, Charles A 150 

Lockwood, Le Grand 500 

Low, Abiel A 100 

Macy, William H , 300 

McComb, Henry J 1, 250 

McCormick, Cyrus H 945 

McNeil, Robert G. J . , , 5 

Moore, E. C 10 

Neilson, Charles H 150 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 159 

Shares. 

Nickerson, Frederick .. 250 

Nickerson, Joseph 380 

Nickerson, Thomas 150 

Opdyke, George 712 

Peek, Nathan .- 100 

Pigot, James B 150 

Pohl, Paul, jr, 6 

Richardson, Joseph 50 

Bobbins, Henry A 100 

Bobbins, Royal E 300 

Sanford, Harvey - 125 

Seranton, Joseph H 5 

Skinner, F., & Co -- 250 

Skinner, F., & Co., trustees 250 

Smith, J. N 405 

Stetson, Thomas M i . 30 

Stevens, W. B., trustee 50 

Stewart, Benedict D 5 

Thacher, Isaac - 92 

Torrey , Lydia 11 

Train, Willie Davis , 175 

Trowbridge, Ezekiel H 50 

Trowbridge, Henry 75 

Yernon, Sophia 1 

Waite, O. O * 80 

Williams, John M. S 620 

Zborowski, Martin 100 

Total . . 37, 500 



Amount - $3, 750, 000 



I certify that the foregoing is a correct list of stockholders, as shown 
by the books of the company, at the close of business, May 15, 1868. 

BENJAMIN F. HAM, 

Assistant Secretary Credit Mobilier of America. 

Subscription list to the Credit Mobilier. 

[Five-cent stamp.] 

We, the undersigned, do hereby subscribe to the number of shares 
set opposite our respective names in the capital stock of the Credit 
Mobilier of America, a. corporation duly incorporated by an act of the 
legislature of the State of Pennsylvania, under the title of " The Penn- 
sylvania Fiscal Agency," the 1st day of November, 1859 — said title being 
changed by the legislature aforesaid, March 20, 1864, to that of "The 
Credit Mobilier of America 7 ' — on the following conditions: 

That there be delegated the full powers of the board of directors to 
the New York agency j 

That a railway bureau shall be established at said agency, to consist 
of a board of five managers; three of them must be directors of the 
company, who shall have the management of the railway contracts for 
which this company may be the agent, which shall be subject to the ap- 
proval of the president of the company ; 

And the subscribing hereto of an amount that shall make the capital 



160 CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

stock one million six hundred thousand dollars, and not to exceed twe 
millions of dollars without the consent of the holders of three-fourths 
of the stock issued by said company. 

And also, on the further condition that no business shall be done by 

said company except that pertaining to the construction, as agent or 

attorney, or by lawful authority of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, 

without the consent of three-fourths as aforesaid in amount of the stock* 

March 15, 1865. 

Thomas 0. Durant, 

including former subscriptions, six thousand shares. 

0. S. Bushnell, two thousand shares. 

Charles A. Lambard, one thousand shares. 

John Duff, one thousand shares. 

G. G. Gray, by H. W. G., two thousand shares. 

Sidney Dillon, five hundred shares. 

W. T. Glidden, by C. A. L., five hundred shares. 

John M. S. Williams, by C. A. L., five hundred shares. 

Ben. Holladay, five hundred shares. 

It is hereby agreed by the subscribers hereto that the railway bureau 
shall consist of seven members, instead of five a& first named. 
Thomas C. Durant. 
John M. S. Williams. 
W. T. Glidden. 

Oliver Ames, one thousand shares. 
John Duff. 

F. Nickerson, two hundred and fifty shares. 
C. A. Lambard. 

Jas. Nickerson, two hundred and fifty shares, 
Oliver Ames, five hundred shares. 
Wm. D. Forbes, one hundred shares. 
Oliver Ames, five hundred shares. 

B. E. Bates, five hundred shares. 

O. S. Chapman, two hundred and fifty shares. 

S. Hooper & Co., five hundred shares. 

E. G. Hazard, five hundred shares. 

Isaac P. Hazard, two hundred and fifty shares.. 

Sidney Dillon, five hundred shares. 

Ben. Holladay, live hundred shares. 

C. S. Bushnell. 
Geo. T. M. Davis. 
Geo. Francis Train. 

Geo. Griswold Gray, eleven hundred shares. 
H. S. McComb, two hundred and fifty shares. 



Washington, January 18, 1873; 
John M. S. Williams sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside? — Answer. Cambridge, Massachusetts; 

Q. Have you in any way been connected with the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company; and if so, since when, and in what capacity? — A. I was 
treasurer from March, 1869, to March, 1871. 



CREDIT MOJBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 161 

Q. Were you an officer of that road prior to that time % — A. I never 
acted as an officer. I was elected director once, but never served. 

Q. When was that ? — A. I forget the time. 

Q. Were you a stockholder in the road % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When did you become a stockholder "l — A. I was one of the origi- 
nal subscribers. 

Q. Have you been a stockholder ever since ? — A. Yes, sir; until about 
a year ago, when I sold out. 

Q. What amount of stock did you hold in the road % — A. I was an 
original subscriber for $20,000. I have held from that all the way to, 
I think, at one time, three or four hundred thousand dollars. I cannot 
remember the exact amount. 

Q, Have you at any time been interested in the corporation known as 
the Credit Mobilier of America ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When did your interest in that begin and how long did it con- 
tinue ? — A. I think it was in 1865 it commenced. I am still a stock- 
holder. 

Q. Do you remember what was the capital stock of the Credit Mo- 
bilier at the time you became a subscriber ? — A. I think it was two mil- 
lions paid in. 

Q. How much stock did you take in it at that time ? — A. One-sixteenth 
of the capital stock — $125,000 — that is, myself and my partner took that 
amount. 

Q. Your firm took $125,000 !— A. Yes, sir. 

Q, Who composed your firm % — At There were four in the firm, but it 
was taken in the name of two of us — William Gliddon and myself. 

Q. Was that an original subscription or purchase of stock? — A. 
Original. 

Q. How much money did you pay on account of that stock % — A. 
The whole amount. 

Q* The capital stock was increased after you took your subscription % — 
A. Yes, sir. . 

Q. How much additional stock did you get by virtue of that in- 
crease % — A. I did not take it. 

Q. You did not take the additional stock % — A. No, sir. Perhaps 
here I ought to say that on the first addition we declined to take it, and 
others took it ; and on the second addition we paid some one to take our 
proportion — paid 5 per cent. 

Q. Have you at any time been an officer of the Credit Mobilier % — A. 
I was one of the directors for several years — between two and* three 
years. 

Q. From what date to what date ? — A. I could not tell without the 

jords. 

Q. Look at these books of the Credit Mobilier and see if they will eu- 

le you to state. — A. Yes, sir. I was a director from June, 1865, to 

iy, 1867. 

Q. Did you hold any other position in that corporation ? — A. I was on 

e executive committee. 

Q. Who else composed that committee ? — A. I think that Mr, Durant 

d Mr. Duff were members most, if not all, the time I was on the com- 

ittee. There were five altogether. I find on referring to the records 

at the first executive committee was composed of Thomas C. Durant, 

>hn Griswold Gray, and J. M. S. Williams. They were the executive 

m m ittee for 1805. The committee were three then and had all the 

>wer of the board. 

Q. Was the executive committee constituted by virtue of a resolution 

11 C M 



162 CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

or a by-law of the Credit Mobilier? — A. I cannot find from these records 
how that is. The management was committed to a railway bureau of 
five before I come into the board. 

Q. I wish you would read that portion of the record establishing a 
railway bureau. — A. It was at a meeting on March 3, 1865 : " Present, 
Messrs. Durant, Bushnell, and Train. The form of subscription was 
submitted and approved. , The president stated he had entered into a 
contract for the construction of one hundred miles of the Union Pacific 
Railroad, and guaranteed the performance of the same, and advanced 
the necessary sum for the fulfillment of the contract, which, on motion, 
was approved. On motion of Mr. Durant, it was resolved that a rail- 
way bureau be established, to consist of five managers, in accordance 
with the terms of the subscription, who shall hold office at the discre- 
tion of the board or of the executive committee. Resolved, that T. C. 
Durant, 0. S. Bushnell, John Duff, C. A. Lambard, and O. W. Barnes 
constitute said managers.' 7 

Q. When was that executive committee appointed that you referred 
to a moment ago ? — A. That committee was appointed in 1864. 

Q. Who appointed this railway bureau ? — A. The directors of the 
Credit Mobilier. 

Q. Did that railroad bureau appoint an executive committee ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. When was that done ? — A. It was done at a meeting of the rail- 
way bureau in November, 1865. 

Q. Read the record of that appointment. — A. " On motion, it was re- 
solved that an executive committee of T. C. Durant, John Duif, and Sid- 
ney Dillon are hereby appointed by this bureau, and no contract shall 
be entered into or payment of money made or appointment to any office 
or position without the concurrence and approval of said committee. 7 ' 
I find further the following on the records : u At a meeting of the direct- 
ors held in the city of New York July 12, 1865, the following gentle- 
men were appointed an executive committee with full power of the 
board of directors when the board is not in session.*' Then on motion 
the railway bureau was increased to seven members as soon as the con- 
sent of subscribers to the stock could be obtained, per agreement of 
March 3, 1865. 

Q. You were secretary of the railway bureau at the time the execu- 
tive committee of the railway bureau was appointed ? — A. I was. 

Q. Did you after that make a contract with the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company for the construction of any part of its road % — A. I at- 
tempted to do so. 

Q. When was that ?— A. June 24, 1867. 

Q. Have you the record of the railway bureau in relation to that pro- 
posed contract? — A. I have what purports to be a copy; I presume it 
to be so. 

Q. Will you i)lease read it, so that it may be incorporated in your 
evidence % — A. I will. 

" New York, June 24, 1867. 

" Dear Sir : I beg to offer the following proposition, namely : to build 
your road from the end of the hundredth meridian of longitude to the 
base of the Rocky Mountains at Crow Creek Crossing, 267 f^ miles, at 
$50,000 per mile, to be acceptable to the Government commissioners; to 
be completed before the 1st of January, 1868. I also propose that the 



CREDIT M0BIL1ER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 163 

company shall transport all material required for construction over the 
road completed by the company at rates to be agreed upon. 
" Yours, very truly. . 

" JOHN M. S. WILLIAMS. 
'< T. J. Carter, Esq., 

"Secretary of Committee. 

ki P. S. — I agree to furnish suitable guarantees. 

" J. M. S. W.» 
Q. What follows this on the record? — A. 

" New York, June 15, 1867. 
" To the Railway Bureau of the Credit Mobilier : 

" If the proposal which I have submitted this day to the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company for the construction of 267 miles of road is accepted, 
I hereby agree to assign said contract to the Credit Mobilier, with the 
agreement aud understanding that the special executive committee of 
the said bureau, as now organized, shall continue the management of 
the same until changed by consent of two-thirds of the stockholders of 
the Credit Mobilier. 

" Yours, very respectfully, 

" J. M. S. WILLIAMS." 

Q. Was that proposal of yours accepted by the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company, or any of its committees 1 — A. I think it was. 

Q. Of what committee w T as Mr. Carter, to whom your letter is ad- 
dressed, secretary ! — A. I have not the record before me, but my mem- 
ory is that he was secretary of a committee appointed by the board, of 
directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company to make a contract 
for the further building of the road. 

Q. Do you remember whether any part of the line embraced in your 
proposition had already been constructed ? — A. I think a small portion 
of it had. 

Q. What was the object of proposing to build a road that had already 
been built ? — A. It was to try to get it in the right hands. 

Q. Into whose hands was it sought to get it by this proposal ? — A. 
Mr. Dillon's and Mr. Duff's, instead, of Mr. Durant. 

Q. But had not that portion of the road already been accepted by the 
Government ? — A. I do not know; 

Q. Do you know what the road that had already been constructed had 
cost the Union Pacific Railroad Company % — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you remember whether your proposition to build the road was 
for a larger amount of money than the road had already cost the com- 
pany ? — A. It undoubtedly was. 

Q. Then what purpose had you to propose to build a road that had 
already been built by the company at a cost to them of less than the 
atnoun tmentioned in your proposition f — A. We were identical in in- 
terest. The Credit Mobilier and the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
were the same identical parties. We were building it for ourselves, by 
ourselves, and among ourselves. There was not $20,000 outside interest 
in it. 

Q. Was this understood at the time % — A. Yes, sir. It was under- 
stood that we were dealing with ourselves, to get the control in the 
right hands. Mr. Durant had entire control, and we proposed to get it 
out of his hands. He was the most extravagant man I ever knew in my 
life, and we were trying to get the management into the hands of Mr, 
Duff. 



164 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. If, under Mr. Durante management, this portion of the road had 
been built for a less sum of money than was proposed to be paid under 
your contract, how was the railway company to be benefited ; was it 
not, in fact, a contract in the interest of the Credit Mobilier ?— A. The 
Credit Mobilier and the Union Pacific Railroad were the same people. 
I owned just as much in the Credit Mobilier as I did in the Union 
Pacific. 

Q. Bat there were a good many persons who did not? — A. I do not 
think there was $20,000, all told. Every stockholder in the Union Pa- 
cific had been invited to come into the Credit Mobilier because it was 
understood that the road was to be built in that way, by contracting 
among ourselves for the common benefit of all. We had been building- 
railroads in Iowa in that way, by contracting companies organized 
among the stockholders. We wanted no one to have an interest except 
in both alike. Therefore, every man who was a stockholder in the 
Union Pacific was invited to come into the Credit Mobilier. If he did 
not, then efforts were made to buy him out, so that there would be no 
outside interest, but the interest would be identical, and no man would 
suffer by these contracts. 

Q. Have you any books or papers in your possession or under your 
control belonging to this railway bureau, showing the transactions of 
the bureau in connection with this matter ? — A. I have not. All the 
books and papers were left with the Credit Mobilier. 1 do not think 
there were many books kept. There was this record-book, of which 
you have a copy. 

Q. Were any accounts kept by thjs executive committee of the rail- 
way bureau ? — A. I do not think there were. All their business was 
done by the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. Have you any books of the Credit Mobilier in your possession ? — 
A. No, sir ; I never did have. Mr. Crane was the man who had charge 
of them — Mr. Crane and Mr. Ham, while he was secretary. 

Q. Can you, from the record before you, give the names of the per- 
sons constituting this railway bureau, and the names of the persons con- 
stituting the executive committee of the railway bureau at the time 
your contract was made or proposed to be made ? — A. Yes, sir. T. C. 
Durant, C. S. Bushnell, Sidney Dillon, Charles A. Lambard, J. M. 8. 
Williams, John Duff, and Mr. Gray. 

Q. Who constituted tbe executive committee? — A. Tbe executive 
committee were composed of T. C. Durant, John Duff, and J. 31. S. 
Williams. 

By Mr. Perry, (counsel for the Government:) 

Q. Were the executive committee of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany and the executive committee of the railway bureau of the Credit 
Mobilier substantially the same until the road was completed ?— A. I 
could not answer that without the records, but I think that Mr. Durant 
was on both. 

Q. Without reference to the record, how many would you suppose to 
be the same f — A. I have no recollection of any one except Mr. Durant, 
but I presume Mr. Bushnell was ; they generally worked together. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. After the ace of Congress, which authorized the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company to issue first-mortgage bonds to the same amount 
as the Government bonds, had passed, did the company issue these 
first-mortgage bonds before the Credit Mobilier made its contract? — A. 
I presume it was about the same time. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 165 

Q. Who determined when these bonds should be issued — the Credit 
Mobilier or the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. The Union Pacific 
issued the bonds, but they could not sell them ; there was no market for 
them. 

Q. I know the Union Pacific Eailroad Company was the only party in 
form who could issue the bonds ; but didn't they lay the matter before 
the Credit Mobilier and request them to issue the bonds ? — A. Well, they 
acted so simultaneously in everything that it would be difficult to divide 
it. They were virtually one concern always. 

Q. That was the casein the issue of bonds and the sale of them under 
the first mortgage ? — A. I should say yes ; yet you might construe my 
answer one way or another. They were the same identical parties all 
the way through, having the same interest ; they were serving each other 
and serving themselves. W r e built four lines of road in Iowa in that 
way, dealing with ourselves always. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. I understand you to say that the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
and the Credit Mobilier were in substance the same concern ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Composed of persons having the same interests? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was it true that during a considerable portion of the time there 
was a stipulation by which before any person could receive a dividend 
he must give to the trustees of the Credit Mobilier an irrevocable power 
of attorney to vote at least six-tenths of his stock % — A. That was sub- 
sequent to the action of the Credit Mobilier ; they had been left out in 
the cold. 

Q. That was by the trustees 1 — A. Yes. 

Q. But the dividends that these trustees made were divided among the 
stockholders of the Credit Mobilier? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then the Credit Mobilier when getting some ten or twelve million 
dollars in dividends were hardly left out in the cold ? — A. They were, as 
an organization. 

Q. But such warmth as could be derived from the dividends they re- 
ceived ? — A. It was their own money. They only took from one pocket 
and put it in another. 

Q. You understood it was necessary, did you not, to obtain the consent 
of every stockholder to this arrangement ? — A. It was so stipulated iu 
the agreement. 

Q. Why was that ? — A. I could not answer that question. 

Q. Was it not, accordiug to your understanding of it, because the 
majority of the Union Pacific Railroad Company would have no right to 
make a contract binding the minority ; were you not so advised? — A. 
2So, sir; I was not. I was not one of the managers that had anything 
to do with it. I had gone out of the executive committee of the Credit 
Mobilier before the execution of the Oakes Ames contract. 

Q. How was it at the time of the Williams contract ? — A. I was in at 
that time. 

Q. Was the Williams contract one you expected to carry out your- 
self? — A. Only for the Credit Mobilier, and that was so stated in the 
records. 

Q. So I understand. First, you say you wanted to get it in the right 

hands — the hands being the Credit Mobilier. Now, didn't you regard it 

as in any way a fraud upon the Pacific Railroad Company to make these 

dividends of stock ! — A. They were the same parties j it could not be a 

raud by any possibility. 



166 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Now, how was it about their relations to the Government % The 
eighteenth section of the act of 1872 provides that whenever the net 
earnings of the road exceed ten per cent, of its cost Congress may 
reduce the rates of fare thereon. How was Congress to know anything 
about the cost of the road, with a view of exercising that power % — A. 
I do not know, sir. 

Q. Was there any provision by which the actual cost of the road to 
the Credit Mobilier, exclusive of its profits, should be reported to Con- 
gress % — A. I do not think there was. 

Q. Then, they were by no means the same thing so far as their rela- 
tions to the Government were concerned 1 — A. They thought they were 
only dealing with their own property ; they didn't think they had any- 
thing to do with the Government. 

Q. Now you see that they were not ! — A. I do not. The Government 
could determine the cost of the road in any manner it thought proper. 

Q. Were the returns to the Government of the cost of the road the 
cost to the parties who constructed it, exclusive of profit, or the cost to 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, including profit f — A. The cost of 
the contract. 

Q. So that the Union Pacific Eailroad Company and the Credit Mo- 
bilier being the same thing, they did not return to the Government 
what the road really cost them ? — A. They returned what it cost the 
Union Pacific Eailroad. 

Q. But you say that they are the same persons ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then they returned to the Government as the cost some ten or 
twelve million dollars more than what it actually was ? — A. That is very 
doubtful, because they took part of their pay in stock, and that stock 
was not worth ten cents on a dollar at the time. 

Q. How does that make it cost any more to construct the road? — A, 
They received stock for building the road, and that stock was not worth 
ten cents on a dollar. ■ . 

Q. Do you understand that the provision 'of law which requires them 
to report the cost of the road would be complied with if they issued 
their own stock, worth ten cents on a dollar, at par, by calling the par 
value of that stock the cost of the road ?— A. They supposed it was 
when they made their reports. 

Q. Do you now suppose so? — A. I would require time to think of that 
question. 

Q. The Credit Mobilier divided among themselves stock. Who re- 
ceived the dividend, the Credit Mobilier or their trustees, or the per- 
son constructing the road ? — A. I do not know, sir • I do not think they 
did. The Credit Mobilier did not, because they were not in that 
contract. 

Q. Was it not stipulated in the instrument creating these trustees 
that the dividends should be made under the Ames contract to those 
persons who were stockholders in the Credit Mobilier who had given a 
proxy on their Union Pacific stock? — A. And also stockholders in 
both. 

Q. Well, they were all stockholders in both. So it was to them in 
their capacity as stockholders in the Credit Mobilier that the division 
was made ? — A. It was in their capacity as stockholders in the Union 
Pacific Railway that the division was made. 

Q. I thought it was in form and nominally the profits to the Credit Mo- 
bilier of the contract with the Union Pacific. Now if that was a division 
to the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, you would 
not certainly think it was dealing in good faith to the Government to 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 167 

report, that as the cost of the road to the company ' — A. It was not a 
division to them directly, but to trustees, who were acting for them. 
It was not a dividend, but a division. 

Q. Do you think it was acting in good faith to the Government to in- 
clude in the cost of the road the profits which they divided up among 
themselves? — A. I do not think the Government was interested in it at 
all, and therefore we did not see any want of good faith at all. Allow 
me to say right here that Congress appears to be laboring under an 
entire misapprehension as to the nature and character of this Pacific 
Railroad act. It was not a' special or private act, but an act to pro- 
mote public interests and public welfare. The eighteenth section of the 
law of 1862 declares this to be its object, and I think it is due that it 
should be judged from the stand-point of the Thirty-seventh and Thirty- 
eighth Congresses, and not of the Forty-second, and that we ought to look 
at it contemporaneously with the event. There is a great misunder- 
standing about the whole thing. We understood that the Government 
was not to call upon us for the interest of 5 per cent, of the net earn- 
ings; that both of those were done away with by that clause of the law 
which allows them only to retain one-half of the cost of Government 
transportation, and therefore in everything we did we thought nobody 
had any interest but ourselves. That is the view we acted upon, and I 
ought to say here that I never had anything to do with the management 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company as such, and in everything I did I 
tried to act for the best interests of the stockholders, the public, and the 
Government, and I believe I did. I believe the building of that rail- 
road was one of the greatest blessings to this country. The greatest 
sufferers were those who built the road, and not the Government. 

Q. You understood, Mr. Williams, did you not, that the Government 
was to have a security on the road reserved by the act of 1862 for the 
amount of the Government bonds issued % — A. The act of 1862 did so 
provide, and under that the road could not be built. 

Q. Now, the act of 1864 authorized the issue of first-mortgage bonds, 
and. gave them a prior lien to its own bonds, did it not % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You understood that was granted because the road could not be 
built under the act of 1862 ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, as I understand you, this division of ten or twelve million of 
dollars was among the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad sub- 
stantially !— A. Equivalent to the stock they took. 

Q. Did you understand that you had a right to raise ten or twelve 
million dollars by these first-mortgage bonds of the company for the pur- 
pose, not of constructing the road, but of making a dividend to that 
amount among the stockholders ? — A. I think we had a right to do with 
them what we had a mind to. They were our property ; nobody else had 
any interest in them. 

Q. Suppose you had built the road for the amount of the Government 
subsidy of $27,000,000 and the sale 6f your land and such capital stock 
as was actually subscribed, do vou think you would then have had a 
right, under the act of 1864, to borrow $27,000,000, giving it a prior lien 
to the Government loan, and divide it among yourselves as dividend? — 
A. Certainly. 

Q. And was not that precisely what you did, to divide among your- 
selves, as profits for constructing the road, the money raised by these 
first-mortgage bonds, which had been given a prior lien to the Govern- 
ment bonds? — A. Of course it gave a prior lien— the law gave that. 

Q. Did you not, in fact, divide, to some extent, these very first-mort- 
gage bonds, and also the stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, 



168 CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

among the parties who received the division of profits under these con- 
tracts! — A. The trustees divided some of them, not all. 

Q. Gan you tell us what, in round numbers, was the cost of that road 
to the parties who constructed it and equipped it ! — A. I have no figures, 
and have never seen any. 

Q. Do you know whose plan or scheme this tripartite agreement 
was — who devised it ? — A. I never did know. It was something I had 
nothing to do with. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. You have stated that the Credit Mobilier and the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company are substantially the same in interest °? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And that in disposing of the Williams contract, as you have testi- 
fied, no injustice was done by including completed work in the letting of 
the contract'? — A. You only suppose that because it was included after- 
ward in the Oakes Ames contract. All the stockholders of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company assented to that. 

Q. That is not just my question. There was included, and you now 
so state, in the Oakes Ames contract, a large amount of road that was 
at its date completed. — A. I should not say large. 

Q. Was it not two hundred and thirty-eight miles? — A. I do not 
know the amount. I did not suppose it was so large as that. 

Q. Was it not about that amount! — A. I do not know. My proposi- 
tion was in January; the Oakes Ames contract, as I understand it, was 
in August. I do not know about that. I was not connected with the 
making of that contract ; in fact, I had been left out in the cold before 
that. 

Q. Do I understand you to say that, when, your contract was taken 
in January, 1867, already at that time there had come to have been an* 
understanding between the Union Pacific Railroad Company and the 
Credit Mobilier that any profits that were made on your contract would 
inure to the benefit of the Credit Mobilier, and that therefore they 
would inure to the benefit of the stockholders of the Union Pacific Kail- 
road Company, because they were substantially identical ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was that also true at the time of the letting of the Oakes Ames 
contract, that all benefit and profit that could be derived from that 
would inure to the benefit of the stockholders in both corporations ? — 
A. I was not a party to that until a long time after it was made. That 
was my understanding of it, however. 

Q. From your knowledge, and it ought to be pretty thorough, was 
there any abandonment of that understanding, which existed when your 
contract was taken, whereby all the advantages of your contract would 
inure to the benefit of the stockholders in the Union Pacific Eailroad ; 
was there any abandonment of that undertaking between the time you 
took your contract and the time Oakes Ames took his '? — A. I do not. 
suppose there was. 

Q. Well, now, at the time the resolution was passed, which I will ask 
you to look at, whereby it was authorized to investigate the Oakes Ames 
contract, was that your understanding of the relations between the con- 
tractor, Oakes Ames, and the stockholders in the two corporations, 
namely, that all profits that might be derived from the Oakes Ames con- 
tract would inure to the benefit of the stockholders in the Union Pacific 
Eailrond Company 1 — A. That was my understanding at the time. I 
signed it some time after it was made. If it had not been so I should 
have considered that somebody was cheating it. 

Q. That was just the question I was going to ask. You say that the 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 169 

238 miles was included in the contract with Oakes Ames, which was 
then completed, accepted by the Government of the United States as 
completed, and which had cost, with the equipment, about $27,000 a 
mile; would not the letting of that to Oakes Ames, at $50,000 per mile, 
have been a very gross fraud as against the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company ? — A. No, sir ; nob by any means. 

Q. Well, why not? — A. Because they were the same owners. 

Q. But, had they not been the same owners, would it not have been ; 
that is to say, if the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany did not get the benefit of the difference between $27,000 and 
-§50,000, would not the company have been wronged out of that sum? — 
A. It would, unless they consented to it. If they had not consented to 
it, it might have been a wrong. 

Q. Had they any understanding at the time of the letting of the 
Oakes Ames contract that they should have the benefit of it — the stock- 
holders in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. I stated before 
that if it hadn't been for their benefit it would have been a wrong. 

Q. I ask you, had they a common understanding that it was for their 
benefit ? — A. I answered that once, that I supposed they had. I had not, 
because I had been left out in the cold. If they had not I should have 
considered it a very great wrong. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. How were you left out in the coid? — A. I had been in the railway 
bureau, connected with the management of the Credit Mobilier, and I 
was left out of it. 

Q. But your interest had not changed? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Will you state whether that contract would have been approved 
by the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, had there not been an under- 
standing that he was not to have the profits of the contract, but they 
would have been divided among the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier? 
— A. I should not suppose so. It was- not approved until it was so un- 
derstood. 

Q. It was not approved, then, until it was so understood ? — A. It was 
not approved by the individual stockholders until it was so understood. 

Q. Was it approved by the company as a corporation ? — A. That I do 
not know. 

Q. Was the contract with Oakes Ames so approved ? — A. I suppose 
it was by their acceptance of it. They accepted it in October, did they 
not? 

Q. Who do yon mean by "they?' 7 — A. The Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company. 

Q. Will you state whether a committee was appointed to investigate 
the Oakes Ames contract — the contract itself I mean, not the assign- 
ment ? — A. It would be entirely out of my province. I do not know 
anything about it; never did. 

Q. Why was not the part of the road that was completed at the date 
of the Oakes Ames contract dealt with as completed work, and why 
did you not let contracts on separate surveys and estimates, for the un- 
completed part beginning at the west end of the completed part and 
proceeding westward ? — A. I cannot answer that question. I had noth- 
ing to do with the matter. 

Q. Can you state why they included this two hundred and thirty- 
eight miles, or whatever it was, of completed work in the Oakes Ames 
contract ? — A. I had nothing to do with it. 

Q. You were a stockholder ? — A. Only a stockholder,' and assented to 



170 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

everything tliey did, but I had nothing to do with the transaction, I 
mean in an executive character. I was not connected with either the 
Union Pacific Railroad or the Credit Mobilier as an officer or manager 
in any way. 

Q. Upon what facts did you base your opinion at the time, and the 
opinion you expressed a moment ago, that there was an understanding 
at the date of the letting of the Cakes Ames contract, the same as there 
was when you took yours, that all the stockholders in the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company should have the benefit of the profits of the 
contract? — A. Because it was a common understanding, and nobody 
would have a right to make a contract for common benefit. 

Q. Then you heard no conversation or declaration that led you to 
that conclusion, but you base your conclusion merely upon the fact that 
it would have been just and proper to so do? — A. That is all. I was 
left out — not consulted. I wanted the contract made for the Credit 
Mobilier. I did not want this trustee arrangement ; therefore I was not 
consulted. 

Q. Why would it have been unjust to make the Oakes Ames contract 
as it was made, had there not been an understanding that the stock- 
holders in the Credit Mobilier and the Union Pacific Railway Company 
should have the benefit of the job ? — A. Because we were acting 
together — had always acted together from the start. No set of men had 
a right to go outside and make a contract, for their own personal benefit. 
But when we were all acting together, there was no wrong done to any 
one of us. 

Q. And that was the understanding from the beginning, that you 
were to act together for the common benefit ? — A. So far as I know, yes, 
sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do I understand you to say that you considered the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company and the Credit Mobilier the same thing? — A. Yes, 
sir ; so nearly identical that there was no divergence of interest. 

Q. Did this road cost the Union Pacific Railroad Company more than 
it cost the Credit Mobilier ? — A. It depends upon how you look at it. 
If your right-hand pocket had more money than your left, and you took 
some from the right and put it in the left, you would be neither richer 
nor poorer. It was your own property, and you took it out of one pocket 
and put it in the other. 

Q. The Union Pacific Railroad corporation was one corporation and 
the Credit Mobilier another corporation, and yet you think they were 
substantially the same thing ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, was the cost of this road the same to the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company as it was to the Credit Mobilier ?— A. In one sense it 
was, and in one sense it was not. 

Q. In what sense was it the same?— A. Because they were the same 
party. 

Q. How would it appear upon the books of these two corporations — 
the books of the Union Pacific Railroad Company and the Credit Mo- 
bilier; would they be alike in the cost of building the road? — A. They 
might or they might not. It depends upon what value the stock had. 

Q. So far, then, as dollars and cents were concerned, they were not? 
— A. They might or might not have been. .You might take a million 
dollars of cash and a million dollars of bonds, and it would only repre- 
sent twelve hundred thousand dollars. 

Q. Therefore, in order to make them alike in this particular case, it 
is necessary to add to the cost of the construction by the Credit Mo- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 171 

bilier the amount of the dividends to the Credit Mobilier? — A. The 
amount of the depreciation of the bonds they were supplied with. 

Q. The bonds were the same all the time, were they not, whether 
they were in the Credit Mobilier or in the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany? — A. Yes, sir. 
• Q. And the stock was the same ! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the money was the same ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, the cost of this road was represented by bonds, stocks, and 
money 1 ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How, then, can you make them the same, other than by adding to 
the cost of the road to the Credit Mobilier the amount of bonds, stock, 
and money that was divided among the stockholders as dividends, 
divisions, or whatever you may choose to call it? — A. I will answer that 
question in this way: Suppose the actual cost to the Credit Mobilier for 
constructing that part for which it received under the contract $62,000 
per mile was $36,000 per mile ; the Government bonds they received, 
($16,000 per mile,) selling at 90 cents, would amount to $14,400; the 
first-mortgage bonds to the same amount sell at 80 cents, and net 
$12,800, and the stock received, $30,000 per mile, sells at 29J^ cents, 
and amounts to $8,800, making the total of $36,000. This is an illus- 
tration of how it becomes even. 

Q. Now, when the railway company comes to pay these bonds that 
the Credit Mobilier sold at 80 cents, they have to pay dollar for dollar? — 
A. All railroad companies when they commence to build their roads 
have to sell their bonds at a discount, and when they become due pay 
for them at par. 

Q. If the Credit Mobilier has these bonds at 80 cents and can compel 
the railroad company to ,pay dollar for dollar, how does that make it 
even ? — A. It is equal to the contractors. • 

Q. I am not talking about the contractors; is it equal to the corpora- 
tions ? — A. You never saw the railroad yet that didn't have to sell its 
bonds at a discount. 

Q. Does that illustration make it equal ; does it not prove that they 
are unequal ? When the Pacific Railroad Company conies to pay these 
bonds, it has to pay dollar for dollar, does it not ? — A. Certainly ; all 
railroad companies have to go through the same ordeal. 

Q. Then, according to your construction of this, the railway com- 
pany sells its bonds to itself for 80 cents, and then pays itself dollar for 
dollar. — A. That is one way of looking at it j that is not the way that 
I look at it. 

Q. State whether you have any knowledge or information of either 
the Union Pacific Railroad or the Credit Mobilier, or any person con- 
nected therewith, either directly or indirectly, having paid any money 
to influence or procure in any way the election of any Senator to the 
Senate of the United States or of any Representative in Congress ?— 
A. I do not know of any such. 

Q. Have you any information of anything of that sort? — A. I do not 
remember of any When I was treasurer of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company there was no money paid for that purpose out of the treasury 
of the company. 

Q. Do you know of any person connected with either of those cor- 
porations paying money for the purposes alluded to ? — A. I have paid 
money for every election almost. 

Q. I am not talking about general contributions to a campaign, but I 
am speaking about the payment of money for the election of persons to 
either the Senate or the House of Representatives ?— A. I think I can 



172 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

give a general denial to that. I have no special information. I have 
paid money myself generally for campaign purposes. 

Q. Do you know of any member of Congress employed directly or in- 
directly for either the Union Pacific Bailroad Company or theCredit 
Mobilier? — A. General B. F. Butler was employed, but I do not know 
whether he was a member of Congress at the time or not. He came on 
with Mr. Alley, and the company paid him $3,000. I understood, how- 
ever, that they paid him more. I heard that he received $5,000. 

Q.' When was that $3,000 paid?— A. Either in the fall of 1863 or the 
spring of 1864. 

Q. Have you any knowledge of any other sum being paid to General 
Butler?— A. No, sir. 

Q. What service did he render? — A. He gave advice about the Ames 
contract, and helped us at a meeting we had for an election of officers. 

Q. Who drew the Oakes Ames contract ?— A. I do not know. 

Q. Who drew the assignment? — A. I do not know. I was not con- 
nected with any of those. I was opposed to them. 

Q. Do you know of any fees being paid to Mr. James F. Wilson ? — A. 
T do not. If I heard of any it has passed out of my mind. I have an 
impression that he was in the employ of the company, but I am not 
positive that any sum was paid to him. 

By Mr. Shellabargker : 

Q. Was any account rendered by General Butler to the Union Pacific 
Bailroad Company for the service he rendered? — A. I do not remember 
what the voucher was. 

Q. That service was rendered in New York at the time they arranged 
the tripartite agreement? — A. It was twice, once at a meeting or elec- 
tion of some kind or another, and again at the signing of the agree- 
ment. I think they were both in the same year, or I may be mistaken. 
It was at the time of the assignment in October, 1867, the latter service 
was rendered. 

Q. Why did the Union Pacific Bailroad pay for a service that was 
rendered the contractor in his dealings with the Credit Mobilier ? — A. I 
do not suppose it was rendered for the benefit of the contractor; it was 
rendered for the benefit of all. I understood that Mr. Alley took him 
to New York, but the company took his advice and paid him for it; I 
was not in the company then. I was left out, and th'e whole thing was 
against my advice. 

Q. The Union Pacific Bailroad Company was not in the habit of pay- 
ing Mr. Alley's lawyer for services rendered him, were they ? — A. I think 
not. 

Q. On its face the railroad company had no interest as a corporation 
in the question that was then adjusted between the contractor and the 
Credit Mobilier? — A. I should think they had a very large interest. 

Q. Well, why ? — A. They did not want to do anything that was ille- 
gal. 

Q. But their contract was made with Ames ? — A. But the stockhold- 
ers had not assented to it. 

Q. And that was the reason they paid a lawyer for getting up an as- 
signment between their contractor and some one else?- A. They paid 
him for his advice. 

Q. Did you see this $3,000 paid ? — A. No, sir ; I heard it was paid 
and I saw it on the books afterward. 

Mr. Alley, by permission of the committee, was allowed to ask the 
witness the following questions : 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 173 

Q. Do you say, Mr. Williams, that I got Mr. Butler to go ou there as 
my lawyer ? — A. That I understood to be the case. 

Q. Who told you such a story as that 1 — A. I do not know, sir. 

Q. Have you any ground for such a statement 1 — A. It was generally 
understood so around the office. 

Mr. Alley. I was in New York City at the time and the president of 
the company sent on for General Butler. I had nothing more to do with 
his coming there than you had. 

The Witness. I heard he came with you. 



Washington, January 18, 1873. 

Joseph B. Stewart sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside? — Answer. In New York City. 

Q. How long have you resided there? — A. My residence has been in 
the city of New York since 1864. I have had an office in Washington 
City for twenty- seven years. 

Q. What is your occupation ? — A. I am a lawyer. 

Q. Do you practice law in the city of Washington 1 — A. I do. 

Q. In what courts ? — A. In all the courts. 

Q. Have you at any time, and if so when, rendered any service for 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company or the Credit Mobilier of America; 
and, if so, when did you render that service ? — A. The scope of that 
question calls for a great deal. 

Q. I have not called for the character of the service — merely for the 
time. — A. I will answer generally, yes, commencing, within the scope of 
this question, about February, 1864, and continuing until' the close of 
that year. Now, in justice to myself as a witness here, and as an indi- 
vidual — and I can perhaps thereby enable you to direct your further 
inquiries — I would like to say just a word here. For reasons which I 
have seen fit to entertain, I have for many years been a very earnest 
advocate of a railroad to the Pacific, and have done everything I could 
to promote every Pacific Railway project that has come up since 1855. 
Therefore, the subject was not a new one to me, but one I sought to 
participate in. When the act of July 1, 18G2, was passed, 1 took an 
active interest in that, and watched its progress up to 1864, when, at 
the instance of Mr. Samuel Hallett, who brought me a letter from Ex- 
Governor Hunt, of New York, I started a more immediate connection, 
as I may term it, growing out of that stage of complications surround- 
ing that particular portion of the. enterprise provided for in the Pacific 
Railroad bill, known originally as the Leavenworth, Pawnee and West- 
ern Railroad, then known as the Union Pacific Railroad, eastern divis- 
ion, now known as the Kansas Pacific. Now, the connection of a pro- 
fessional character commenced specifically about the period I have indi- 
cated. Now, to go back again to May, 1863 j I then had something 
to do as counsel, and something to do in the contract between Stone, 
Ewing, Isaacs, and McDowell, and also when they sold the corporation 
known as the Leavenworth, Pawnee and Western Railroad to Hallett 
and Fremont; and it is very likely that the fact that I was interested 
in that matter professionally, as well as individually, caused my recon- 
nection with the road in a more active character at the period I have 
indicated, in 1864. 

Q. You say you took an active interest in these enterprises. In what 



174 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD: 

particular way was tliat interest manifested ; in what way were you par- 
ticipating in these things ? — A. At that stage of it, of course, when there 
was no corporation existing, it could only be by advocating it, occasion- 
ally by my pen and more frequently by my tongue, and constantly urg- 
ing it before the public whenever I could. 

Q. Was it a part of your business in Washington to urge that thing 
upon members of Congress and Senators? — A. It was by no means a 
specific part of my business other than I made it a part of my business, 
as any citizen had a right to do. 

Q. And when this period came around, when you became connected 
with the Union Pacific Railroad Company, did you participate actively in 
securing further legislation in that behalf? — A. I used my utmost en- 
deavors to induce Congress — I speak of it as a body ; of course I did 
not address myself to details — so far as I could, to foster, sustain, and 
favor the persons who were disposed to engage in and invest their pri- 
vate fortunes in building those roads, for reasons which I observed and 
were sufficient. 

Q. Did you use those endeavors of which you have spoken in this gen- 
eral way upon members of Congress and Senators for the purpose of in- 
tluencing them or inducing them to pass this amendment of 1864? — A. 
As I had a pretty active part in getting up the amendment, it may well 
be supposed that I did all I could to procure its passage. 

Q. You did so, then ? — A. I did so publicly and notoriously. 

Q. Did you do so privately with individual members ? — A. As I had 
not the privilege of speaking on the floor of Congress, and, except when 
permitted, in the presence of committees, I had no other means of ad- 
dressing members of Congress than through the press and personally ; 
but it was not privately,- it was not addressed to any particular mem- 
ber of Congress to the exclusion of the rest. 

Q. I want to know whether you were engaged in what is called lob- 
bying in behalf of that scheme ? — A. I disclaim the performance of that 
service within the terms indicated by the question at any time or on 
any occasion. I have had, during the last twenty-seven years, a good 
deal of business before Congress, as constituted to administer certain 
rules of justice appertaining to the Government, there being no other 
tribunal, and whatever arbitrary terms may be employed, calling it 
lobbying or what not, I am not responsible for that. 

Q. But you have had a great deal to do, as I understand you, within 
the last twenty-seven years in getting measures through Congress? — A. 
You have no right to understand that. 

Q. What did you mean, then, in answer to my former question ? — A. I 
mean to say that during the last twenty-seven years I have had a great 
deal of business before Congress as organized 

Q. Well, hold on ; right there I will ask you a question, or make a 
suggestion in the form of a question. Is there any mode known to you 
by which Congress does any business other than by acts of Congress 
becoming laws ? — A. I should regret if there were. 

Q. Was not, then, the mode by which you were accomplishing, or seek- 
ing to accomplish, the ends you desired by getting acts of Congress 
passed ? — A. I will put my language in this way : It was to address 
myself to Congress as a legislative body, through its committees, sub- 
mitting reasons why a law should be passed for the relief of my client, 
or to present his case, for instance, before the Naval Committee, Commit- 
tee on Post-Offices and Post-Roads, and so forth. I speak now more 
particularly before the organization of the Court of Claims, the original 
draught of which bill I drew. There was a time when I had a calendar 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 175 

every winter and every Congress before the several committees. It was 
openly, not in the spirit; of persuading any manor Senator, as a member 
or Senator, but to submit to him, as a member of a committee or mem- 
ber of Congress, reasons why it ought to be done. 

Q. Did you labor for the enactment of this Pacific Railroad act of 
1804 as you did in these other cases to which you have referred?— A. 
Most actively and earnestly. 

Q. Was this labor you rendered in getting this legislation rendered 
gratuitously upon your part ? — A. No, sir, not gratuitously upon my part. 

Q. Who paid you for it J ? — A. I was paid for my services by the com- 
pany, or those acting for and representing the company at the time. 

Q. What were you paid for the purpose of getting this legislation? — 
A. For my individual services I was paid $30,000. 

Q. On account of this railroad f — A. On account of the railroads. 

Q. Who paid you that $30,000? — A. Now, the question you are ask- 
ing is calculated to lead to a conclusion which I wish to prevent right 
here. Now, I will answer, and I will answer just as the facts transpired. 
I think the entire amount and all that was paid, with one exception, 
was paid through Mr. Durant and Mr. Hailett — through Durant mainly. 
The other payment was made by Mr. C. P. Huntington. 

Q. What amount did he pay you ? — A. Ten thousand dollars. 

Q. Was that in addition to the $30,000 ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who is Mr. C. P. Huntington ?— A. President of the Central Pacific 
Railroad. He paid me in stock of the Central Pacific Railroad. 

Q. When was that ?— A. In 1864. 

Q. Was that in consideration of aiding and procuring the passage of 
this act of 1864 ?— A. It was. 

Q. Was the $30,000, of which you have spoken, paid for services ren- 
dered in aiding in getting the same act passed ! — A. It was ; but that 
was not all that came into my hands. 

Q. Well, go on. — A. A great deal more than that came into my 
hands, a nd I received it in discharge of my duty and undertaking as 
attorney where the roads were concerned, and where parties having 
interests preceding 1864 had, or alleged that they had, a prior right, 
resting largely upon the corporation which I have described, now known 
as the Kansas Pacific Railroad ; some growing out of the Union Pacific 
main line. These matters were discharged in the course of my profes- 
sional relations as counsel to the company and to the other parties, and 
as mediator, negotiator, and compromisor between conflicting interests, 
all of which I do not purpose to explain here to this committee, 
because the confidence reposed in me in these matters is the confidence of 
my clients, and they refer to matters which were settled then, and which 
had no reference to any member of Congress, or Senator, or anybody 
else outside of the private interests involved. Now, for this purpose I 
received a great deal more than $30,000 or $100,000 either. 

Q. From whom did you receive this large amount of money that went 
through your hands % — A. The bonds, you mean % 

Q. From whom did you receive these bonds I — A. From Mr. Samuel 
Hailett and Mr. Thomas C. Durant. 

Q. What bonds were they — railroad bonds or Government bonds ? — 
A. They were railroad bonds. 

Q. What railroad bonds were they % — A. Of the Union Pacific and 
the Union Pacific, eastern division, now known as the Kansas Pacific. 

Q. What reason have you for declining to state what the subject- 
matter of these controversies were that were settled by the use of these 
bonds ? — A. Because they are the private interests of other people, who 



176 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

have not the remotest idea of having them disclosed here, and because 
I have no right to disclose them. 

Q. It is very hard for the committee to appreciate your motives with- 
out a more detailed statement of the matter. — A. I am the judge of 
that. No part of that fund was paid, either directly or indirectly, to a 
member of Congress or Senator. When you go outside of that, I claim 
to have duties to observe and obligations to perform as well as you, and 
they cannot be disregarded. 

Q. What amount of money was at any time placed in your hands by 
Mr. Durant? — A. That does not state the case as I thought I explained 
it a moment since. 

Q. I will put it as mouey, bonds, or stock. — A. Now, then, I will place 
the proposition before you in this way : At the time these things trans- 
pired, there were disputes and demands, in some of which I was myself 
counsel for the parties j others were represented by different counsel. 
They gave rise to embarrassments and to controversies and threatened 
injurious litigation — litigation which, if commenced or persisted in, would 
tend to discourage and certainly to seriously embarrass the objects off 
the road. Mr. Durant and Mr. Hallett together paid me a very large 
amount — to exceed $250,000. 

Q. Was that in money or in bonds ? — A. I have said a moment ago 
all in bonds. 

Q. And bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad? — A. Not all of the 
Union Pacific. 

Q. What amount of these were bonds of the Union Pacific % — A. As 
nigh as I can remember it, I think one hundred to one hundred and fifty 
bonds. Whateyer they were I could not get at specifically now. I 
must here do justice to say, and it is proper to say — for these amounts 
sound large — that if I laid before this committee all the reasons and all 
the matter involved which laid the foundations for that proceeding, it 
would not look so disproportionate. I do not think there were over 10 
or 15 per cent., so far as the claims being controverted were concerned, 
that were settled. They were claims for land, and bonds, and various 
things. 

Q. What did you do with the Pacific Railroad bonds that came into 
your possession '? — A. That is the very thing I do not propose to dis- 
close. 

Q. What were those stipulations ?— A. They were matters between 
clients and persons who were urging these claims, who submitted to have 
them settled, sometimes by me directly, sometimes by myself in con- 
nection with others, sometimes at the end of serious controversy, some 
involving litigation — all of which enter into the very reasons that I do 
not propose to state to this committee. 

Q. Who were the parties interested in these disputes of which you 
have spoken "I — A. They were a number of persons. The question in 
my mind, Mr. Chairman, is how far your inquiry proposes to lead me 
on. So far as you are interrogating me about this resolution of in- 
quiry — what pertains to things done with Congress — that I feel called 
upon to answer distinctly and fully; but outside of it, into my profes- 
sion, I come to a point where I do not propose to permit myself to be 
interrogated, or answer questions. 

Q. I simply want to know who these parties were. — A. They were 
not members of Congress. 

Q. I have not asked who they were not. — A. I decline to allow any 
inquiry into my clients' business. Learning 1 was going to be sum- 
moned, I got the resolution and read it. I was going away to-night, 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 177 

but Hot desiring: to leave in the face of a summons, I read the resolution, 
and seem to understand its object. Having occupied the position of 
attorney and trustee, and participated in the settlement quietly of mat- 
ters previously un pleasantly controverted, I should feel I was very recreant 
to my trust if I disclosed them now. 

Q. Well, Mr. Stewart, we have traced into your hands a certain 

amount of bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad A. Allow me to say, 

in the first place, that I object to the use of the language of having traced 
anything into my hands. 

Q. Well, did you receive into your possession any of the stock or bonds 
of the Union Pacific Railroad : and, if so, how much ? — A. I have stated 
most distinctly that exceeding $250,000 of bonds passed through my 
hands. Now, to whom I paid them I decline to say. I say that no mem- 
ber of Congress received any. I paid the bonds to different persons who 
were my clients, or subject to my trust, whose private affairs I do not 
think are involved in this resolution. 

Q. What bonds were those % — A. The bonds issued by the railroad 
company. They were the construction bonds, convertible into the first 
mortgage bonds. I do not think a Government bond came into my hands 
at all. 

Q. Did you pay any of these bonds to any officer of the Government ? — 
A. 1 never did. 

Q. Directly or indirectly ? — A. I never did. 

Q. Do you know of any bonds being given by any other person with 
reference to this legislation ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any money being given to members of Congress 
with reference to this legislation?— A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know of any bonds or money being paid to any officer of 
the Government with reference to this legislation? — A. I do not. 

Q. Since the organization of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, do 
you know of any bonds, stock, or money being paid to any legislator or 
member of Congress, or officer of the Government, by said company '? — 
A. No, sir. 1 answer that with great emphasis ; 1 do not at all. 

Q. Have you any information that anything of that kind was done ? — 
A. i have fortunately no such information. I would not allow myself to 
speak of such information, if I had. 

Q. Why would you not allow yourself to speak of it ? — A. I would not 
allow myself to publish what others might say in matters so serious and 
detrimental to the character of gentlemen in public position, unless I 
knew the fact. In other words, I would not retail gossip. 

Q. If you had been told by some one that so and so had been done, 
would you refuse to' state the fact that somebody had told you sol — A. 
If I had been told by some one, you ask, a certain matter, would I refuse 
to state that somebody had told me it ? 1 should be very much disinclined 
to repeat what I heard in that way, when the person from whom I heard 
it might deny that he had told me. 

Q. Do I understand you to say that nobody ever did tell you such a 
tiling % — A. Nobody ever did tell me that they knew personally such a 
thing. The step beyond that is to pick up Dame Rumor. Such stories 
luive been in my ears day in and day out, but nobody has told me about 
them whose word I believe, and I never heard the rumor from anybody 
whose opinion 1 thought worth cherishing. 

Q. In what way were you paid $30,000 for your services in aiding this 
legislation in 1864? — A. For the labor I performed, I was paid the bonds, 
as agreed by Mr. Hallet and Mr. Durant. 
12 c M 



178 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Mr. Durant paid you the $30,000 ! — A. He paid me a much larger 
amount than that. 

Q. Did you have an accounting- with Mr. Durant' with regard to the 
large amount that came into your hands ?-»-A. Now, I will answer that 
question just as it transpired, and you must bear with me, as my answer 
may, perhaps, save other questions. When the basis was determined 
upon -which these matters in dispute should be settled, it was reduced 
to a memorandum, the parties having this memorandum. A man 
claimed a hundred thousand dollars' worth of stock, or he would claim 
that equivalent, or some other equivalent, in land, that would possibly 
be settled for ten per cent, of the amount or fifteen per cent. — the best 
terms that could be effected to avoid litigation — all the claims having 
at least some color to maintain them, and sometimes very well-defined 
obligations. These memoranda — whatever the amount was, ten, fif- 
teen, or twenty per cent., for in no instance did it go above twenty per 
cent, to any one person — were grouped together, and Mr. Hallett on the 
one part would approve them, for before I concluded the settlement I 
had consulted sufficiently close with him and Mr. Durant to know what 
would be acceptable to them. These were reduced to a general memo- 
randum, upon which the bonds were to be delivered. If the party relin- 
quished what he had in the way of a claim, he received this memorandum 
that he would get so many bonds, and when these were all brought 
together they were paid, and the memoranda taken in. There was 
no other mode of settlement. 

Q. Taken in by whom ? — A. By Durant and Hallett. 

Q. What time did you get these bonds.? — A. The latter part of June, 
1864. ]STow, as to my own employment; the records of Congress will 
advise you that when the Kansas Pacific Railroad, as it is now called, 
was sold to Hallett and Fremont, it gave rise to a series of controversies 
between parties who were interested in the road previous to that, who 
had certain claims upon it. During the fall of that year Mr. Hallett 
and Mr. Fremont differed and separated, which eventuated in Mr. Du- 
rant coming into the Union Pacific, eastern division. That is the road 
commencing at Kansas City and going back to Denver, and forming a 
junction with the main line at Cheyenne. That gave rise to contest and 
litigation between Hallett and Fremont. After it had been well ascer- 
tained that the road could not be built under the act of 1862, and when, 
in 1864, they were seeking here to get further strength in their financial 
condition by the friendly legislation of Congress, among other embar- 
rassments, there sprung up a contest between Hallett and Fremont, 
each well sustained by counsel, the quarrel having commenced in New 
York, and found its way here and in the committee-room. Mr. Dudley 
Field and certain other gentlemen were brought here as counsel, and 
what was known as the eleventh section of the act of 1864 was got into 
the bill as reported — mark you, as reported, for it never became a law. 
When that eleventh section was put in, it provided that the Leavenworth, 
Pawnee and Western Railroad, commonly known as the Union Pacific, 
eastern division, should have neither land nor bounty until the contro- 
versies, represented as they were by two boards of directors, Fremont 
president of one and Perry the other, should be settled or determined 
by a court of competent jurisdiction ; and in that shape, with that clause 
in the bill, it was reported from the Committee on the Pacific Railroad. 
1 was engaged more especially to handle what was called the Hallett 
and Durant side of the controversy, and it was our design to get the 
bill free from that clause. It was in connection with that that I took 
an active part, and for that reason you will understand that the bonds 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD, 179 

that were paid me for taj services were the construction bonds of the 
Union Pacific Railroad, eastern division. There were five corporations 
embraced in one bill, and whatever embarrassed one embarrassed the 
whole. > 

Q. Was it not for the purpose of settling that dispute with reference 
to the Lawrence, Pawnee and Western road that those bonds of the 
Union Pacific Railroad were placed in your hands, and didn't they go 
into the settlement of that dispute? — A. They most certainly did. 

Q. Then all the bonds that were used by you were paid over in settle- 
ment of that dispute and for your lees ? — A. Certainly, every solitary 
one of them. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. In this transaction, whose agent did you consider yourself ?— A. I 
considered myself the agent and attorney of ail the corporations, be- 
cause I was employed to endeavor to frame a proposition that would be 
acceptable to Congress, and, so far as I could, to aid and strengthen the 
financial condition of the roads. I am the author of the tenth section 
of the act of 1864. 

Q. Did you report to Dr. Durant how these sums of money were dis- 
posed of? — A. I most certainly did. 

Q. Have you any objection to stating what you then reported to Dr. 
Durant? — A. I have. 

Q. Do you understand the protection of counsel to extend beyond 
the confidential communications of counsel and client ? — A. I under- 
stand pretty well the rule. I understand the rule to extend to all rela- 
tions that come within the scope of counsel or adviser on one part or 
the other. I also understand it to extend where is rested in my bosom 
the conflicting controversies between two parties that I am arbitrator 
between, and that I have no right to state anything that w T oukl revive 
those oppositions. 

Q. What I want to know is whether you refused to disclose those facts 
which the chairman inquired of^you about, on the ground of your re 
lation or duties to your client, fjr whether you based it on your con- 
struction of the resolution authorizing the committee' to act. — A. Ex- 
clusively upon a sense of duty to my clients. I would only resort to the 
resolution in certain contingencies. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. Did you furnish a written statement or account to Dr. Durant of 
the amounts that you had paid out, and for what purpose ? — A. There was 
no other memorandum than the one I have spoken of; no vouchers 
given or required or needed. 

Q. Do I understand that you had made a settlement of these con- 
flicting interests of claimants before you received the bonds, and that 
yon knew the amount that would be required to make the settlement, 
and obtained the necessary quantity of bonds to pay off the claim- 
ants r— A. That is it, exactly. 

Q. Then you got the bonds on your exhibit of what had been ad- 
justed ? — A. Extending to your question that. these things were under- 
stood as they professed by Mr. Hallett and Mr. Durant. 

Q. And they never received from you any other vouchers of what 
you had done 2 — A. Only the receipt for the bonds. 



180 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Washing-ton, D. C, January 21, 1873. 
The committee met ; all the members present. 

E. H. Rollins sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer. At Concord, New Hamp- 
shire. 

Q. Are you an officer of the Union Pacific Railroad Company? — A. I 
am treasurer of the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. How long have you been treasurer of that company? — A. Since 
April, 1871. 

Q. Had you any official relations with that road before that time ? — A. 
I was secretary of the company from the time that the office was re- 
moved to Boston, in May, 1869. 

Q. Prior to that time had you any connection with it?— A. Prior to 
that time I had some connection with the company. 

Q. In what way ? — A, I was employed by the company to attend to 
some business in Washington toward the construction of the road j to 
secure the subsidy-bonds from the Government in pursuance of law ; and 
I attended to the adjustment of some of its claims with the Quarter- 
master Department for transportation. 

Q. When was that ?— A. 1 think in 1868. 

Q. Have you with you now any of the books of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company? If so, state up to what time these books show the 
transactions of the company. — A. Up to the time of the removal of the 
office from New York to Boston. In addition to that I have records 
of the company to the present time, and many other books covering the 
transactions of the company since, but not all of them. 

Q. Have you the directors' record which was kept in the city of New 
York ?— A. I have. 

Q. With whom was the first contract made for the construction of 
this road, as appears by the records of the company? — A. With H. M. 
Hoxie. 

Q. On what page of the directors' record will be found the first entry 
in reference to that contract? — A. On page .116. 

Q. Where is the next entry with regard to it? — A. On page 139. 
This is the proposition of H. M. Hoxie to construct a portion of the road. 
The heading is " Copy of contract," but it seems to be only a proposition. 

Q. Was that contract approved by the board? — A. It seems to have 
been approved on page 141 by a select committee. 

Q. Was the Hoxie contract assigned to the Credit Mobilier ? — A. It 
was. 

Q. Is there any entry on the records in reference to that assign- 
ment? — A. Yes; on pages 142 and 143. 

Q. Is there anything on the records of the board of directors in refer- 
ence to what is known as the Boomer contract ? — A. I think not. 

Q. Is there anything on the records in reference to the contract with 
John M. S. Williams?— A. There is. On page 206 will be found a pro- 
posal of John M. S. Williams. 

Q. Was that proposition accepted, as appears by the record ? — A. It 
was ; on pages 206 and 207. 

Q. Was there any further action in relation to that contract by the 
board of directors ? — A. There was. On page 208 is a resolution instruct- 
ing a committee to prepare a written contract. 

Q. What was the next contract that was made for the construction 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 181 

of this road, as appears by these records ? — A. The Oakes Ames con- 
tract. 

Q. What is the first entry that yon find on the record with relation to 
the Oakes Ames contract ? — A. On pages 245 and 246 is a proposition 
of Mr. Oakes Ames fqr a contract. 

Q. Was that proposition accepted by the company ? — A. It was ; the 
acceptance will be found on page 246. 

Q. Was there a committee appointed to settle details in relation to 
that contract ! — A. There was ; the executive committee of the com- 
pany. That will be found on page 250. 

Q. Does the contract appear on record ? — A. It does, on pages 251 to 
255 inclusive. 

Q. Is there anything further on the records of the company in rela- 
tion to that contract"? — A. There is, on page 256 the recommendation 
of the executive committee and the approval of the contract. 

Q. Look on page 258 and see whether the contract was approved by 
the board. — A. The contract w^as approved by the board by the approval 
of the records of the executive committee. 

Q. Was there anything further done in relation to it? — A. On page 
259 the board consented to the assignment of the contract. 

Q. Is there anything further in relation to it on that record? — A. No, 
sir; that is all. 

Q. Have you another book that shows entries with relation to this 
contract ? — A. I have a book of directors' records from October 4, 1867, 
to March 13, 1869. 

Q. What is that book entitled ? — A. On the first page it is headed 
" Rough Minutes." 

Q. Can you explain how that book happened to have an origin? — A. 
There was some difficulty in relation to the annual election of the board 
of directors, and it grew out of that. 

Q. What is shown on that book of rough minutes in relation to the 
assignment of the Oakes Ames contract? — A. On page 5 the executive 
committee was authorized to examine an assignment of the Oakes Ames 
contract, and was given full power to accept of such an assignment or 
to reject it. 

Q. Was it accepted as appears on that record ? — A. It was, on page 6. 

Q. Was Oakes Amos released from the performance of it by the 
board f — A. On page 7 is an entry with relation to the Oakes Ames con- 
tract. 

Q. What was the next contract that was entered into ? — A. The 
Davis contract. On page 57 of the executive committee records is found 
a letter from Thomas 0. Durant, vice president and general agent. 

Q. What is the next entry ? — A. The next entry is on page 58 ; it is 
a proposition from James W. Davis to construct the road; it is dated 
November 1, 1868. 

Q. Was that proposition accepted as appears there? — A. There is a 
memorandum here " accepted, subject to approval of all the stockhold- 
ers of November 1." 

Q. What is the next entry ? — A. The next entry is on page 58, an as- 
signment of the contract of J. W. Davis. 

Q. To whom ? — A. To the trustees named ; they are all named in the 
assignment. 

Q. Was that assignment approved ? — A. It was, on page 59. 

Q. Are you now or have you at any time been in any way connected 
wilii the Credit Mobilier of America? — A. Not at all. 

Q. Neither as stockholder nor in any way ? — A. Never at all. 



182 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

(The examination of the witness was here suspended.) 

The examination was resumed, as follows: 

Q. State what was the cost to the Union Pacific Bailroad Company 
of the construction of that part of the road which is embraced in the 
Hoxie contract, under that contract. — A. The only statement I can 
make is from the books, which show the amount charged to the Hoxie 
contract; the amount paid under the Hoxie contract and charged to»it 
was $14,550,278.94. The last entry in this book seems to be March 30, 
1867, and the last credit seems to be September 30, 1867. 

Q. Do you know when the additional payments (not included in that 
book) were made? — A. They were made before 1 became treasurer of 
the company. 

Q. The whole amount shown to have been paid under the Hoxie con- 
tract is the amount you have stated 1 — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Of that sum please state how much had been paid up to the 30th 
of March, 1867 ?— A. $12,550,278.94. 

Q. Between the 30th of March, 1867, and the final payment on this 
contract there seems to have been an additional sum of $2,000,000 paid? — 
A. Yes. 

Q. Do you know when that $2,000,000 was paid?— A. It was paid, I 
should think, some time during the year 1869. 

Q. Have you 'ever seen the entries on the books of the payments con- 
stituting this $2,000,000 ?— A. Yes; I have seen the entry on the 
ledger. 

Q. Is that a single entry of $2,000,000 ?— A. It is. 

Q. Do you know on what account it was paid? — A. The entry on the 
ledger is "bills payable." I do not know that I ever saw the entry on 
the journal. 

Q. . Did you ever see the bills payable constituting that $2,000,000 ?— 
A. I never did. 

Q. Do you know any of the circumstances attending the giving of any 
such obligations as those, either of your own knowledge, or from infor- 
mation derived from others? — A. As I understand it, a note of the 
company was given for $2,000,000, and charged to the Hoxie contract. 

Q. To whom was that note given? — A. I do not know to whom it was 
given in the first instance, but it was placed in the hands of Elisha At- 
kins, of Boston. 

Q. For what purpose ? — A. It was given him, as I understand the 
case, in trust, as collateral security for the indorsers of some bond, which 
w r as required in the case of the suit in Pennsylvania against the Credit 
Mobilier for taxes. 

By Mr. Sloctjm : 
Q. "Who were president and treasurer at that time?— A. Oliver Ames 
was president, and John M. S. Williams secretary. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you know any consideration at all for which that note of 
$2,000,000 was given?— A. None except work on the Hoxie contract. 

Q. Had not the Hoxie contract all been paid up to that time ? — A. 
That I do not know. 

Q. The Hoxie contract covered 247 miles and a fraction, which, at 
%50,000 a mile, would amount to about $12,400,000, and, up to the 30th 
of March, 1867, there had been paid on it $12,550,278.94, according to 
the showing of your book. — A. In justice to the books I should say 
that there is credited under the Hoxie contract $263,000 more than the 
amount specified here. I mean to say that there is still, according to 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 183 

the boots of the company at Boston, something due under the Hoxie 
coi) tract. 

Q. Notwithstanding this $2,000,000?— A. Yes; some $263,000. 

Q. In addition to the amount you have given here? — A. Yes. 

Q. So that, according to this, the Hoxie contract has cost the com- 
pany some $263,000 in addition to the $14,550,278.94 that you gave a 
little while ago ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Who holds the $2,000,000 note now ?— A. Elisha Atkins, of Bos- 
ton. 

Q. Is that all the information that you can give us now in reference 
to the Hoxie contract?— A. Yes,sir; I think it is. 

Q. Is that all you know in relation to this $2,000,000 note ?— A. Yes. 

Q. Do you know who made the entries on the books in regard to this 
$2,000,000 loan ?— A. The book-keeper at the time, Mr. J. E. Fisher, I 
think. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q.»Is this suit in Pennsylvania against the Credit Mobilier settled ? — 
A. I understand it is. 

Q. Then why is it that this note of $2,000,000, which was given as 
collateral security, has not been recalled and delivered up to the com- 
pany ? — A. I do not know. I cannot explain it. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. Have you any information in relation to that note, derived from 
others, other than what you have already given to the committee ? — A. 
No, sir. 

By Mr. Swann: 

Q. Is it a promissory note or a bond ? — A. It is a note. 

Q. Renewed from time to time ? — A. I have never seen the note my- 
self. 

Q. You do not know who signed the note? — A. I have no doubt that 
it was signed by the president and treasurer of the company at the time, 
Messrs. Ames and W illiams. It never has been renewed, to my knowl- 
edge. 

By Mr. Slocum: 
Q. Was it a call-note or a time-note ? — A. I do not know. 
Q. When was that note dated ?— A. August 4, 1869. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. When would that promissory note be barred by the statute of lim- 
itation ? — A. I do not know. I suppose in six years after date- 
By the Chairman : 

Q. Has there been at any time recently an order of the board of direct- 
ors to issue a large amount of bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany ? — A. There was an order passed at a recent meeting of the direct- 
ors in New Y r ork to issue $16,000,000 of bonds. 

Q. Of what class of bonds ? — A. They were to be denominated " Sink- 
ing-fund mortgage bonds." 

Q. Where is that order ? — A. On the book of " Records of the stock- 
holders and directors," on pages 163, '4, '5, '6. 

Q. What is the date of the order ?— A. December 12, 1872. 

The order was put in evidence, as follows : 

" Mr. Morton presented preamble and resolutions as follows, which 
were adopted unanimously : 



184 CREDIT MOJBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

" New York, December 12, 1872. 

" Whereas it appears by the report of the finance committee, submit- 
ted this day, that the company will require about four millions of dol- 
lars for the payment of coupons and obligations maturing on or before 
April 1, 1873 ; and whereas the income bonds of the company, amount- 
ing to ten millions of dollars, mature in 1874: It is therefore 

"Resolved, That a mortgage upon the land, land-grants, road-bed, ap- 
purtenances, and property of the company be made to the Union Trust 
Company, of New York, as trustees, to secure the payment of the bonds 
of this company for sixteen millions of dollars currency, or three mil- 
lions two hundred thousand pounds in British sterling, in sixteen thou- 
sand bonds, numbered 1 to 16,000 inclusive, for the sum of $1,000 United 
States currency, or £200 British sterling each, the principal of which is 
payable on the 1st day of March, 1903, in gold, unless sooner redeemed 
under the sinking fund clause hereinafter contained, at the office of the 
company, with interest at the rate of 8 per cent, per annum currency, or 
7 per cent, per annum British sterling, at the option of the holder, inter- 
est payable on the 1st day of March and the 1st day of September in 
each year, said bonds to be called ' a sinking-fund mortgage bond/ 

"Resolved, That a sinking fund of one per cent, per annum on the 
amount of coupon bonds actually issued and outstanding under the 
mortgage be created for the purchase, at par, and extinguishment of 
said coupon bonds issued under this mortgage, to be redeemed by annual 
drawings by lot, by the trustees for the time being, or some one of them, 
or by some person duly authorized by them, in the month of February 
in each year, beginning in the month of February, 1874, at the office of 
the Union Trust Company, or their satisfactory successors, in New 
York, in the presence of one of the officers of the company and of a 
notary public, notice of said drawing to be announced thirty days prior 
to said drawing, both in New York and London, and notice of the num- 
bers so drawn to be posted, by the trustees for the time being, at the 
office of the Union Trust Company, in New York, and at the office of 
Morton, Rose & Co., in London, or their satisfactory successors, and 
also to be advertised, by the Union Trust Company and Morton, Eose 
& Co., in one or more newspapers in each of the cities of New York and 
London. On the 30th day of August following the drawing, the bonds 
so drawn shall be paid, by the trustees for the time being, to such of 
the holders thereof as may have, in writing, notified the trustees on or 
before that day of their election, to have their bonds so redeemed or 
paid; that is to say, at the rate of $1,000 in United States currency in 
New York, or £200 in British sterling money in London, for each 
bond, on delivery of the bonds with the unmatured coupons. And in 
case any of the holders of the bonds so drawn shall fail to notify the 
trustees, in writing, of their election to have their said bonds thus paid 
and redeemed, as aforesaid, then and forever thereafter such bonds shall 
cease to be entitled to be purchased and redeemed by means of said 
sinking fund shall be proportionately reduced. 

" Resolved, That ten millions of dollars, or two million pounds sterling, 
of the above bonds, known as the ten per cent, income bonds of this 
company, and for no other purpose whatever. 

"Resolved, That the aforesaid coupon bonds may, at the option of the 
holder, be converted into registered bonds of the company* bearing in- 
terest at the rate of 8 per cent, per annum in currency, said registered 
bonds not being entitled to share in the sinking fund or annual drawing 
under said sinking fund. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 185 

u Resolved, That a committee, consisting of the president, Augustus 
Sehell, John Duff, L. P. Morton, James H. Banker, E. Atkins, and D. 
S. Ruddock, be, and they are hereby, authorized to have said mortgage 
and bonds prepared, under advice of the counsel of the company, and 
that the president and treasurer be, and are hereby, directed to execute 
said bonds and mortgnge and attach the seal of the company thereto 
wheu and as the same shall have been approved by the executive com- 
mittee.'' 

Q. Were you present at that meeting? — A. I was. 

Q. Was there anything said at that meeting in reference to this in- 
debtedness of $2,000,000 to the Credit Mobilier on account of this note ? — 
A. I think not. 

Q. That matter was not mentioned ? — A. I do not think it was. 

Q. Was there any purpose in ordering these $16,000,000 of bonds to 
be issued, other than is specified in the record which you have just re- 
ferred to ? — A. Not that I am aware of. 

Q. Have any of those bonds been issued pursuant to that order ? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. Have they been prepared for issuing ? — A. I think not. I have no 
information that anything has been done in regard to issuing those 
bonds. 

By Mr. Swann: 

Q. What collateral security was to be pledged for the redemption of 
these bonds ? — A. There was to be a sinking-fund for the redemption of 
the bonds and the mortgage. 

Q. That mortgage has never been made or executed ? — A. It never has 
been made or executed. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you know anything in regard to a lot of bonds having been lost 
about the time the office of the company was transferred from New York 
to Boston? — A. I know that there were some bonds lost. 

Q. Do you know the amount ? — A. I do not know that I can give that 
information any better than to hand you my report, which I made to the 
board of directors, on the auditor's thorough examination of the matter. 
It is dated March 8, 1871, and is found on pages 117, 118, 119,120, and 
121 of the records of stockholders and directors. 

By Mr. Swann : 
Q. What was the amount of the bonds that were lost? — A. 254 first- 
mortgage bonds, making $254,000. 

By Mr. Slootjm : 

Q. Was that the property of the Union Pacific Railroad Company or 
the Credit Mobilier? — A. I have no doubt they were the property of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. They were in the hands of whom % — A. Mr. J. J. Cisco was then 
treasurer of the company. 

By Mr. gwANN : 

Q. Who had the custody of them ? — A. I suppose the treasurer or the 
assistant treasurer, Mr. Charles Tattle. The assistant treasurer had 
the most active part in the transactions of the company. 

Q. Were those bonds in the box where the archives of the company 
were kept, which were afterward sent to the North % — A. I do not know. 

Q. You never saw them there? — A. O, no: I never saw them. 



186 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. Have you any information as to what became of those bonds ? — A. 
No, I have not. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. Have any efforts been made'to recover them by the board ? — A. 
Yes, a good deal of time has been spent in trying to discover what be- 
came of them. 

Q. You have not been able to trace them, and have never received 
any of them back from any source? — A. Ho, sir. 

Q. What officer was responsible for them as custodian 1 — A. The 
treasurer or assistant treasurer. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. State the cost to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company of the con- 
struction of that portion of tts road covered by the Oakes Ames con- 
tract under that contract?— A. $59,381,855.53. 

Q. At the time the Oakes Ames contract was made, there seems, by 
the reports from the Treasury Department, to have been 142 miles of 
that already completed and accepted by the Government ; state what 
that work had cost the Union Pacific Railroad Company, as shown by 
the books of the company. — A. It is impossible for me to answer that 
question from any data I have here. 

Q. Is there anything in the books of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany anywhere, showing what the company paid for that work ? — A. I 
have not examined the books through with reference to that matter, and 
I do not know whether it would be possible, from the books, to make up 
that account or not. I will not undertake to say, but 1 presume that an 
approximate estimate can be arrived at. 

Q. After the completion of the Hoxie contract do your books show 
any contract under which the Union Pacific Railroad Company con- 
structed that portion of the line west of the one hundredth meridian, 
until the Oakes Ames contract came into existence ? — A. I do not find 
any. 

Q. Then from anything that appears upon the books of the company, 
in what way or by what arrangement did the company construct those 
142 miles of road which was accepted by the Government at the time 
the Oakes Ames contract was made ? — A. That it would be impossible 
for me to explain. I know nothing about the transactions at that time. 

Q. Look at page 462 of the journal ; do you find there an item charged 
to the Ames contract of $5,606,542.30 ?— A. I do. 

Q. Do you know on what account that charge was made? — A. Only 
from the entry of the journal. 

Q. Read the entry ! — A. : 

Amount to balance. 

J. G. Mitchell $186,401 26 

AY. C. Lindsay, cashier 3,509,120 82 

Iron account 1,786,020 22 

N". A. Gesner, agent 125,000 00 

5,606,542 30 

Q. Can you tell whether that represents the amount that was paid by 
the company, or which it had cost the company to construct the work 
that nad been done prior to the Oakes Ames contract ? — A. No, I can- 
not. I do not know. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 187 

Q. Is there any mode by which that can he ascertained from the 
books? — A. The only possible way in which it could be ascertained 
would be by having the parties who kept the books at the time, and who 
are familiar with all the transactions and entries, to make up the ac- 
count. 

Q. The next contract after the Oakes Ames contract is the Davis con- 
tract. What was the cost to the company, according- to the books of 
the company, of building the portion of road which is covered by the 
Davis contract, pursuant to that contract ? — A. The books show a 
charge to the Davis contract of $26,385,595.94. 

Q. And how much is he credited with ?— A. $3,068,920.36. 

Q. That would seem to leave a balance in favor of the company un- 
paid, on account of this contract, of $23,000,000. Is that the way the 
books show it ? — A. I don't know how fche fact is ; it so appears from the 
books. 

Q. Have you had a statement made out by your book-keeper, show- 
ing the cost of the construction of this road under these various con- 
tracts ? — A. I have. 

Witness produced the following paper, which was put in evidence : 

Boston, January 18, 1873. 

Construction. 

Charged to June 30, 1872 $93, 518, 982 69 

Present fiscal year, live months . 202, 663 51 

93,721,646 23 
Credited, same period 5, 131, 969 11 

Balance Dr 88, 589, 6V7 12 

Memorandum. — The credit is made up in part by amount from — 

Hoxie contract ' $407. 000 00 

Central Pacific Railroad Company 2, 840^ 000 00 

Atlantic and Pacific Telegraph Company 178, 000 00 

Ames Contract. 

Charged, prior to June, 1870 * $59, 381, 152 26 

Difference in account 703 27 

59,381,855 53 
Credited 57, 633, 115 59 

Balance Dr 1,748,739 94 

Nothing since June, 1870. — =- 

Davis Contract. 

Charged $26, 385, 595 94 

Credited 3, 068, 926 33 

Balance Dr 23,316,669 61 

Principally prior to January, 1871. = • 



188 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

Hoxie contract. 

Charged $12,550,278 94 

Charged August 4, 1869 ; bills payable , 2, 000, 000 00 



14, 550, 278 94 
14, 813, 899 07 

Balance Cr 263, 620 13 



Credited '. ., 14, 813, 899 07 



Q. Did your book-keeper make up the statement in reference to the 
Hoxie contract ? — A. He did. 

Q. State what has been the whole cost of this railroad to the Union 
Pacific Company, as shown by the books of the company! — A. 
$88,589,697.12. ■ 

Q. Does this paper which you have put in evidence show, as far as 
you can gather from the books, the cost of the construction of the whole 
road under the various contracts % — A. It does. 

Q. What amount of first-mortgage bonds were issued by the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company %— A. $27,237,000. 

Q. Has any other class of bonds been issued by the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company? — A. Yes. 

Q. What are they ?— A. Land-grant bonds; $10,400,000. 

Q. How much of these land-grant bonds have been disposed of! — A. 
All, I think. 

Q. When were they issued % — A. I will furnish the committee with a 
fall statement, showing the amount issued and the amount redeemed. 

Q. Do the books show what amount of money the Union Pacific Rail- 
road derived from these first-mortgage bonds ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. State the amount. — A. I will cause to be made up a statement 
showing the exact amount which the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
received from its first-mortgage bonds. 

Q. What amount did the Union Pacific Railroad Company derive 
from the sale of Government bonds ? — A. I will furnish a statement of 
that also. It must have realized about their par. 

By Mr. Swann : 
Q. I understand that these r bonds, whether sold to a large or small 
amount, were regularly entered in the books of the company % — A. Yes, 
sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Has the Union Pacific Railroad Company any account with the 
Credit Mobilier of America on its books ! — A. It has. 

Q. Does the Union Pacific Railroad Company, according to that ac- 
count, owe the Credit Mobilier anything? — A. It does not. 

Q. Turn to that account. — A. [After referring to the books.] The 
Credit Mobilier stands charged with $992,466.37, as a balance due the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company. The last entry in that account is 
May 15, 1872. 

Q. How stood that account of the Credit Mobilier with the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company, on the 4th August, 1861) % — A. [After exam- 
ining the account.] The Credit Mobilier seems to have been in debt to 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company, on that date, $795,81)0.89. 

Q. Do you know of the officers of the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
having bought any bonds of other railroads? — A. We have taken bonds 
of other railroads as collateral securitv for loans. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 189 

Q. To what amount?— A. We have $220,000 of the Utah Southern 
Railroad bonds. 

Q. State the transaction. — A. We furnished the iron and rolling- 
stock for that road, agreeing to take in return for it the bonds and 
stock of the company. I think we also have, as collateral, Utah Cen- 
tral Railroad bonds and Colorado Railroad bonds. 

Q. To what amounts? — A. I would not undertake to fix the precise 
amounts. 

Q. Will not your books show? — A. Not the books that I have here. 

Q. Has there been an actual outlay of money by the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company on account of those roads? — A. There has been on 
account of the Utah Central, because the Union Pacific Railroad 
did not succeed in placing those loans immediately after it fur- 
nished the money and materials. 

Q. How much money of the Union Pacific Railroad Company is now 
invested in that way? — A. It is but justice for me to say that it was 
not money of the company. The money was furnished by the di- 
rectors of the company. 

Q. Which oft the directors did it ? — A. Nearly all the present board 
of directors have done it. 

Q. Who are the present board? — A. Horace F. Clark, Augustus 
Schell, James H. Banker, Oliver Ames, John Duff, Elisha Atkins, 
Oakes Ames, L. P. Morton, R. E. Bobbins, James Brooks, G-. M. Dodge, 
Sidney Dillon, G, S. Bushnell, George M. Pullman, F. G. Dexter. 

Q. Were those Utah Central bonds furnished during the progress of 
the work, or after its completion ?-— A. I think after the completion of 
the road. 

Q. If the directors or officers of the Union Pacific Railroad furnished 
the money with which to take those bonds, what had the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company to do with them ? — A. They furnished the money to 
the company, and the company furnished it to the Utah Central Rail- 
road. 

Q. So that the company now owes this money to its own directors? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the company owns these bonds as its collateral security for 
the redemption of the money ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Why was that thing done? — A. For this reason: It was deemed 
very much to the advantage of the Union Pacific Railroad to have a 
railroad constructed from Ogden to Salt Lake, and thence further south, 
as, by that means, they would have direct communication with Salt 
Lake City by rail, and with the mineral region below in the Utah Val- 
ley. All the freight and passenger traffic between the Utah Valley and 
the East must go over every mile of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany. 

Q. Is there on the books of the company what is known as an item 
of special legal expenses? — A. There are on the books of the com- 
pany legal expenses; there is a legal expense account. 

Q. Do you know an item of $125,000 for special legal expenses? — A. 
I know an item of about that amount, but not exactly that amount. 

Q. Do you know what it was for ? — A. I think the record which I 
have here shows it. 

Q. Refer to it. — A. At the directors 7 meeting held in Boston, March 
S, 1871, the following resolution was adopted: "Resolved, That a 
committee of three be appointed, to act with the president, to audit, 
settle, and pay the special legal expenses of the company up to this 
date. 1 ' This was at the regular meeting of the board, March 8, 1871. 



190 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Gu the 9th March the president, from the committee, reported standing 
committees as follows 

Q. Name that committee to settle special legal expenses. — A. Thomas A. 
Scott, G. M. Dodge, John Duff, Government Director J. F. Wilson. This 
committee made a report as follows: 

" The special committee of the board to which was referred the matter 
of auditing and paying the special legal expenses of the company, re- 
port, that on examination they find the same to amouut to the sum of 
$126,000 • and authorize the same to he paid to the secretary of the com- 
pany as agent of the company for payment. 

" G. M. DODGE, Chairman. 

" Boston, March 9, 1871." 

Q. Were you present at the meeting ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was there any statement made of the items of that account ? — A. 
No, sir. I was not present at the meeting of the committee, but I was 
present at the meeting of the directors. 

Q. Was any information given to the directors of the items of which 
that special legal expense was made up? — A. I did not hear any expla- 
nation of it. 

Q. Had you any other information or knowledge of what that item 
consisted ? — A. No ; I had no knowledge of it. 

Q. When that vote was passed did you not ask for any explanation 
of so large and unusual an item '? — A. I was secretary of the company, 
keeping the records, and it was hardly in my province to ask such a 
question. 

Q. Did no director ask for such information in your hearing, when the 
vote was passed or when the report was made ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. And no explanation was given in the board either of the items or 
the character of that special legal service ! — A. No, sir; none that Ire- 
member. 

Q. Was there any statement made to the board when the services had 
been rendered ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Had you no opinion about it yourself at the time, as to when these 
legal services had been rendered ? — A. The resolution covered all the legal 
expenses of the company up to that date. 

Q. All the special ones; not all the general ones? — A. All the special 
ones. 

Q. You have in your books, I suppose, outside of this one item which 
the secretary was authorized to pay, the usual accounts with the attor- 
neys of the road? — A. O, yes; when we employ counsel they present 
their bills and they are charged to legal expenses. 

Q. Have you the general legal expense account of that year ? — A. 
Yes. 

Q. You have a general expense account of items to counsel for draw- 
ing contracts, giving opinions, making arguments, &e. ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Covering two or three pages ? — A. Yes. 

Q. And there is an item for special legal expenses'? — A. Yes. 

Q. You were secretary to the company ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who usually paid the legal expenses of the company? — A. The 
treasurer of the company. 

Q. Had you, at any other time, had the duty placed upon you of pay- 
ing any lawyer of the company ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. State whether in met the money was put in your hands for pay- 
ment, in accordance with the report of the committee? — A. Checks and 
drafts for the amount of $120,000 were drawn by the treasurer and 
made payable to my order as secretary. Those check and drafts were 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 191 

put on my desk for indorsement. I indorsed them and returned them 
to the treasurer, or bis cashier. 

Q. Did you make any report of your doings in that respect to the 
company ? — A. Nothing further. 

Q. That report of the committee was accepted by the directors'? — A. 
I do not think that a report was ever made to the board of directors. It 
did not require auy further action by the board. It was authorized to 
audit, settle, and pay. 

Q. Why did you return that money to the treasurer*? — A. He handed 
me the checks for indorsement, and asked me to return them. 

Q. But the money was placed in your hands for payment ! — A. I un- 
derstood from the board of directors that the disbursement was to be 
made under the direction of the committee. 

Q. Did the committee direct you not to make the payments yourself? — 
A. The committee did not give me any directions about it, except what 
is contained in the resolution. 

Q. Checks and drafts to that amount were brought to you ? — A. Yes; 
with the request that I would indorse them. 

Q. Why did you not pay them, in accordance with the vote, to the 
persons who were to receive them ? — A. I did not know to whom to pay 
them. I followed the instructions of the committee, as I supposed. 

Q. In what way were the instructions of the committee communicated 
to you, that these checks were to go back to the treasurer, and that you 
were not to pay the monev in person J ? — A. According to my best recol- 
lection some member of the board presented the checks and drafts to 
me and asked me to indorse them. 

Q. What member, according to your best recollection ?— -A. I should 
not wish to swear positively. It may have been a member of the com- 
mittee, or it may have been Mr. Busknell. 

Q. Give us your best recollection who was the person ? — A. I will not 
undertake to fix positively who it was. 

Q. Have you a person in your mind as the person with whom you had 
that transaction "l — A. I do not think I have. 

Q. Who was the treasurer of the company at that time ! — A. John M. 
S. Williams. 

Q. Did you deliver these checks to him ? — A. I either delivered them 
to him, or to his cashier. 

Q. Which do you suppose ? — A. The balance of probability would be 
in favor of the cashier, as his desk would be the one to which I would 
naCTirally go. 

Q. Your desk was in the same room ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you mean to say to the committee that you have no knowledge, 
opinion, or belief, as to what was done with that money'? — A. I know 
what was done with the checks and drafts. 

Q. What was done with them? — A. They were delivered back by me 
to the treasurer, or his cashier. 

Q. Had you at the time any knowledge, opinion, or belief as to the na- 
ture of the expenditure of that $126,000? — A. I suppose it was to pay 
the special legal expenses of the company. 

Q. What class of expenses did you suppose that this included! — A. 
I do not know that any better description can be given of it than is 
given in the resolution. 

Q. This took place March 9, 1871 ?— A. Yes. 

Q. About five or six days after the legislation of that winter directing 
the Secretary of the Treasury not to withhold the half of the expendi- 
tures for Government transportation % — A. Yes, sir. 



192 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Was it not your understanding at that time that that expenditure 
of $126,000 had something to do with procuring the passage of that 
act? — A. I supposed that some portion of it might have been for ex- 
penses incidentally growing out of that matter. The company employed 
attorneys here and incurred some expenses. 

Q. Ordinarily, when the company has employed counsel, his name 
appears on the books, and his receipt is filed with the vouchers of the 
company ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you not understand that the method of conducting this trans- 
action was for the purpose of concealing it? — A. There was no explana- 
tion made to me by any member of the board, and by none of the com- 
mittee, as to the' object at all. 

Q. You were the responsible officer of the company ? — A. Yes, sir ; 
not responsible for its finances, however. 

Q. The directors of the company authorized three of their number to 
make an expenditure of $126,000 ?— A. Yes. 

Q. And that three signed a written report authorizing that amount 
to be 'put in your hands to be paid? — A. Yes. 

Q. That amount was brought to you in checks and drafts in pursuance 
of that authority ? — A. It was. 

Q. And you simpl}^ put your name on the back of those checks and 
drafts, and handed them over to another officer of the company at his 
request? — A. I simply put my name on the back of the checks and 
returned them. 

Q. Did you not understand at the time that that unusual method of 
managing that transaction was adopted so that it should not appear in 
detail on the books of the company like other legal expenses? — A. That 
would be the natural inference. 

Q. Now, I ask what at the time was your understanding of the charac- 
ter of that expenditure that distinguished it from ordinary legal services, 
such as appear on the books of the company ? — A. I cannot answer you 
any better than I did before. 

Q. Had you np opinion at the time of the character of that expendi- 
ture ? — A. Possibly I had. 

Q. Possibly, what was it ?— A. I supposed that it was for the special 
legal expenses of the company. There was the vote in the board of 
directors that that money should be appropriated, and a report to that 
effect. 

Q. Did you not understand that a greater part of it, if not the whole, 
had been expended in procuring the passing of the act of Congress to 
interfere with the exercise of the discretion of the Secretary of the 
Treasury ? — A. I do not believe it was. 

Q. On what do you predicate that opinion? — A. I think that some 
portion of it may have been used in the employment of some counsel, 
and in paying the expenses which would naturally have been incurred 
in having some action of Congress. 

Q. Why did you understand that that transaction was to be concealed ! 
There was nothing to be ashamed of in getting a lawyer to argue your 
side of the law? — A. Not that I know of. The mode of the transaction 
was somewhat unusual. 

Q. In what particular? — A. In the checks and drafts being made 
payable to my order. 

Q. You say that you understand that that was done for the purpose 
of concealing it. Why do you understand that it was desirable to con- 
ceal it ? — A. I do not know whether it was desirable to conceal it. 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND U&ION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 193 

Q. Ton had some opinion at the time, had yon not % — A. I may have 
had. I do not recollect what my opinion was. 

Q. Have yon any opinion now ? — A. I suppose the parties who made 
the disbursements "did not want all the details known. 

Q. Why not % — A. I am sure I do not known. 

Q. Who were the parties who made the disbursements ! — A. I do not 
know. 

Q. Were you here in the city of Washington during the previous ses- 
sion of Congress ? — A. I was. 

Q. Who else of the officers of the company were here?— A. Mr. Bush- 
nell, Mr. Duff, Mr. Alley, and Mr. Oakes Ames. Mr. Williams, I think, 
was also here for a few days. 

Q. As tar as you understand they were all here on that business ? — 
A. [ presume they were. They may have had other business, but they 
were all interested in the act of 1871. 

Q. Have you told the committee all that you know of your own knowl- 
edge or by information from other persons connected with that company, 
with reference to that transaction ? — A. Yes, sir ; I have told the com- 
mittee exactly what occurred, as near as I can recollect. 

Q. You have no other knowledge or recollection about it except what 
you have disclosed % — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. SLOCra : 

Q. Have you ever heard it intimated from any quarter whether any 
portion of that money went to a Senator or member of Congress % — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. You never heard such a thing intimated at all ? — A. No ; I do not 
think that I ever have. 

Q. Has the Union Pacific Bailroad Company got a contract with the 
Pullman Car Company ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Have you got that contract with you ? — A. I think I can produce 
a copy of it. 

Q. What is the nature of that contract ? — A. It is substantially the 
same as the contract the Pullman Car Company has with other roads. 
I believe it was draughted from the contract with the Pennsylvania Cen- 
tral, and is substantially in the same terms. Their contracts are uni- 
form. They have a printed form, and I think they are substantially the 
same with all the roads of the country. I have never examined them 
carefully, but that is my impression. 

Q. Do you know who the stockholders in the Pullman Car Company 
are f — A. No $ I cannot say that I do. 

Q. Who negotiated the original contract with the Pullman Car Com- 
pany I — A. I think, originally, there was a sort of Palace Car Company 
connected with the road. 

Q'. Was there not a separate palace-car organization that was owned 
by the stockholders of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company ! — A. I 
think there was. % 

Q. And they sold out to the Pullman Car Company 1 — A. Yes. 

Q. Who were the stockholders in the original Palace Car Company ? — 
A. According to my recollection and best information on the point, the 
great bulk ot the stock was owned by the Union Pacific Bailroad Com- 
pany. 

Q. Who were the officers in the first Palace Car Company ! — A. I do 
not know. 

Q. Do not the books show anything of the contract between the Union 
13 c 31 



194 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILEOAD. 

Pacific Railroad Company and the first Palace Car Company ? — A. Yes ; 
the office at home can furnish that information. 

Q. You do not know the nature of the contract ? — A. No ; I should 
not undertake to swear to the details of the contract. 

Q. Do you know any stockholder in the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company who was a stockholder in the first Palace Car Company I — A. 
I do not know really who were the stockholders. I never saw any of 
the stock. 

Q. When was the contract which was made by the first Palace Car 
Company sold to the Pullman Car Company ? — A. In 1870. 

Q. Who was president of the Union Pacific Railroad Company then ? — 
A. Oliver Ames. 

Q. What memorandum have you there? — A. A resolution of the ex- 
ecutive committee. 

Q. Read it. — A. It is a resolution authorizing the president to sell 
2,000 shares of the Pullman Palace Car Company stock for the sum 
of $400,000 cash, and also authorizing- him to execute a contract, which 
contract might be assigned over to the Pullman Palace Car Company. 

Q. It appears that you were secretary at that meeting?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you were then secretary of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany? — A. Yes. 

Q. And you do not know any of the stockholders in the Pullman Pal- 
ace Car Company ? — A. It seems that the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany owned 2,600 shares. 

Q. How many shares were there in all? — A. I do not know what the 
capital stock was. 

(The examination of the witness was here suspended, and Mr. Oakes 
Ames was called in and examined as follows :) 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Question. It appears that on the 9th of March, 1871, the board of direc- 
tors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company appointed a committee with 
authority to audit an item of $120,000, denominated special legal ex- 
penses; do you know what that item was made up of ? — Answer. No, 
sir ; I know nothing about it. 

Q. Mr. Rollins states that that committee reported authorizing the 
sum to be paid to the secretary of the company, as agent for the com- 
pany, for payment, and that all he did about it was to receive a number 
of checks and drafts from the treasurer, which he indorsed and gave 
back to the treasurer or cashier ; do you know what was done with any 
of those checks or drafts ? — A. No, sir ; I do not know anything about 
them. 

Q. Did you know that there was such an item in existence? — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. Neither from personal knowledge nor information ? — A. No, sir. 
I heard that there was money expended to that" amount. 

Q. For what purpose? — A. I heard, for expenses, or something or 
another at Washington. I was here at Washington all the time, and 
did not know anything about it. 

Q. Did you hear the amount ? — A. No, sir; I did not hear the amount. 

Q. Do you know from whom you heard it ?— A. No ; it was some time 
after. 

By Mr. Slocum : 
Q. Were you then a director of the company ? — A. I do not know 
whether I was or not. 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 195 

Q. It was during the month that the law was passed.— A. I was here 
in Congress. I do not know whether I was then a director or not. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. What do you know, if anything, in reference to the payment of 
810,000 to Senator Harlan ! — A. I do not know anything about it. 

Q. Did you ever hear anything about it ? — A. I have heard the story. 

Q. When did you first hear of it ? — A. That I cannot tell you. 

Q. Did you ever see the two checks? — A. No, sir; I was not a 
director of the company, and bad nothing to do with it. 

Q. Have you ever been a director in the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company ? — A. I am a director now, and have been for nearly two 
years past. 

Q. Do you know anything of these checks being entered on the 
books of the Union Pacific Railroad Company in any shape or form "? — 
A. No, sir ; I never examined the books. 

Q. Have you ever heard it discussed in your board at any time? — A. 
No, sir ; it was never discussed in my presence. 

Q. Did you ever hear Mr. Durant say anything to Senator Harlan 
about these checks ? — A. Only what I heard him say here. 

Q. Is that the first that you ever heard of it ? — A. I heard the story, 
but not from Durant. 

Q. From whom did you hear it f — A. I eanrfot tell you. It was a 
common report. Some of the newspaper reporters had it here two or 
three years ago. Mr. Boynton made the statement in some of the 
newspapers. 

Q. Is that the first you heard of it ? — A. I do not know whether it 
was or not. I heard Mr. Durant testify that he gave that amount to 
Mr. Harlan. 

Q. You have no knowledge or information about it other than what 
you have stated? — A. Only information at other hands. 

Q. Information from any other sources than you have named ? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever hear Mr. McComb speak of it ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Or Mr. Alley ? — A. I do not know if I did; I may have heard so. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. I notice on this book that on the 8th of March, 1871, at the di- 
rectors' meeting of the Union Pacific Railroad Company in Boston, 
yourself being present, it was resolved, on motion of Mr. Dodge, that a 
committee of three be appointed to act with the president to audit, 
settle, and pay the special legal expenses of the company up to date. 
Was there no explanation to the board of directors of what that item 
was ? — A. I cannot tell you. There might have been, but I have no 
recollection of it. 

Q. You have no recollection of the transaction ? — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. Did you contribute money to carry the State of Indiana last fall? — 
A. I contributed money. Mr. Boutwell was out there, and he tele- 
graphed to Mr. Claflin that they must have more money out there, and 
I contributed $2,000. 

Q. Do you know of others connected with the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company who also contributed ! — A. My brother gave $2,000. I do not 
know of anybody else who gave any. I thought it a good use of the 
money, and I think so yet. 



196 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

The examination of E. H. Eollins was here resumed, as follows : 
By Mr. Hoar : 

Question. State, as nearly as you can, the present assets of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company, and their value. — Answer. I cannot tell that, 
with any sort of justice to myself or the company, without a careful ex- 
amination of the books of the company at Boston. I have not got the 
data here from which I could make it up. 

Q. You are one of the principal officers of the company % — A, I am 
secretary and treasurer of the company. 

Q. You are the legal custodian of the property of the company, so far 
as it is capable of being in individual custody .% — A. I am. 

Q. When did you make your last report % — A. There has been no re- 
port made since the last annual election. There was no regular report 
then, but merely a financial exhibit made up. 

Q. How long have you been treasurer % — A. Since April 18, 1871. The 
law calls for a report. That was made and filed at the close of the fiscal 
year ending 30th June, 1872. 

Q. When you succeeded to your predecessor in office I suppose you. 
had some knowledge of the property you came into possession of"? — A. 
Yes ; I took a careful inventory of it. 

Q. State as far as you can the nature and character of the property 
you came into possession of. — A. There was on hand Utah Central 
bonds as collateral security for loans, Utah Southern Eailroad bonds, 
Colorado Central Eailroad bonds, Atlantic and Pacific Telegraph stock, 
and income bonds of the company. That is all that now occurs to me, 
but it is a very imperfect list. 

Q. Had you in the office an account and estimate of the value of the 
road, its rolling stock and movable property, its depots, &c. u l — A. Yes; 
the number of engines, and all the property of the company can be 
shown from books of the company. 

Q. Have you had no authentic statement made up to within a year 
w T hich shows the amount of the property of the company on hand and 
its liabilities ? — A. The statement that we make up in our office does not 
include the operating department of the road. 

Q. Is there not in the head office of the company a statement in some 
authentic form which includes the entire property of the road, as well 
its operating property as its other resources % — A. The report of the 
superintendent would show the property. 

Q. My question is, have you not in the central office of this great 
railroad company any authentic statement made up within any time of 
the past twelve months showing the entire property and its value on 
one side and its entire liabilities on the other % — A. There is such a 
report. 

Q. -Where is it % — A. In the office at Boston. 

Q. Is there no copy of it here % — A. Not to my knowledge. 

Q. What report is that? — A. The report of the general superin- 
tendent. 

Q. That relates only to the operating department? — A. Only to the 
operating department. 

Q. Is there not a statement which includes that, or a summary of it, 
and includes also all the property that is in the hands of the treas- 
urer ? — A. No, sir. I have no custody of the property used in operat- 
ing the road, and in any statement that I make up I never include that. 

Q. Does nobody make a statement which includes that ? — A. No j I 
do not think there has been any made ; I have no recollection of it. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 197 

Q. Is it not usual for some reports to contain these Items 1 — A. I sup- 
pose that the report of the superintendent would cover it. 

Q. That does not show the debts of the road J — A. The treasurer's 
statement would show the debts of the road ; the report of the superin- 
tendent would show the operations on the line of the road, and the 
report of the treasurer should show the financial operations of the com- 
pany. 

Q. Is there any report which shows the entire financial condition of 
the company ? — A. Not at the present time. 

Q. . When was the last one made ? — A. The last statement was made 
at the annual meeting in March last. 

Q. Did that contain a statement of the financial condition of the com- 
pany ? — A. There was a statement made up then of the financial condi- 
tion of the company. 

Q. Which, so far as you know, is full and accurate ! — A. Yes. 

Q. Have you a copy of it here! — A. No, sir; but I will furnish it to 
the committee. 

Q. Is that ever reported to the Government? — A. Not in detail. 

Q. Are there any of those bonds which you have enumerated which 
are held as the absolute property of the company ? — A. Yes ; the. Utah 
Southern bonds are the absolute property of the company, also the in- 
come-bonds, aud the land-grant bonds, and the Colorado bonds. All the 
bonds are the absolute property of the company, except the Utah Cen- 
tral bonds. 

Q. What is the amount of the Utah Central bonds ? — A. Something 
over $200,000. 

Q. That is collateral for a loan, loan and collateral both having now 
become the property of other parties ? — A. Yes ; $150,000 of it. 

Q. So that, in these Utah Central bonds, or the loan which they secure, 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company has no property of value now ? — 
A. Only $50,000. 

Q. Now take each of the other items of assets which you enumerated 
and state the value of each as near as you can. — A. Before departing 
from this Utah Central matter, I should state that the company owns 
5,000 shares in the Utah Central Eailroad. 

Q. Is the Union Pacific Eailroad Company still under any responsi- 
bility as surety or guarantor for that road f — A. It is. 

Q. Is the security good for the loan, as far as you know ? — A.A bund- 
ant. 

Q. So that you do not regard the Union Pacific Eailroad Company as 
under any substantial liability, or as having any substantial property in 
that transaction ? — A. No, sir 5 only in the stock and loan of $50,000. 

Q. The Union Pacific Eailroad Company has 5,000 shares of the stock 
of the Utah Central?— A. Yes. 

Q. What is the par of those shares % — A. One hundred. 

Q. What is the market-value of those shares? — A. About 50, I sup- 
pose. 

Q. So that the Union Pacific Eailroad Company has how much abso- 
lute property in them ?— A. About $150,000. 

The examination of the witness was suspended and the committee took 
a recess till half past seven. 

In the evening session the examination of E. H. Eollins was continued 
as follows : 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Question. You had undertaken to state the amount of property of the 



198 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

company in the hands of the treasurer, and you had mentioned in the 
first place some bonds of a Utah, railroad, which you said they held only 
as collateral. — Answer. I want to correct that now, because, on reflec- 
tion, I am satisfied that I was in error $50,000 — that we still have an 
interest of $50,000 in that loan. There are two notes that we have not 
parted with. 

Q. Are those notes well secured and worth their face ? — A. Yes, sir ; 
abundantly. 

Q. Then you have as assets $50,000 in bonds of the Utah Central ?— 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And in the stock of that company you have how much? — A. Five 
thousand shares of stock, on which we owe just $100,000. It is worth 
50 cents a share. The par value is 100. 

Q. So that the par value of the five thousand shares makes $500,000? 
— A. Yes, sir ; but it is worth only $250,000. I consider our interest in 
it worth $150,000. Then we have income-bonds of the Union Pacific 
Railroad that were included in the issue and that have not been dis- 
posed of yet. 

Q. -What do you mean by income-bonds % How are they secured? — 
A. They are secured by a pledge of the income of the road to trustees. 

Q. Who are those trustees? — A. Benjamin E. Bates. John E. Duff, 
and F. Gordon Dexter. 

Q. How do you make them property of the company? — A, In the 
statement of indebtedness of the road, the outstanding liabilities of the 
road, the whole issue of $10,000,000 is included. 

' Q. How much of those bonds are not yet issued ? — A. The company 
hold eight hundred and eighty of them, or thereabouts. They are 
$1,000 bonds. 

Q. What next ? — A. We have got a small amount of Washington 
County, Nebraska, bonds; I think some $15,000. 

Q. Has the county refused to pay those ? — A. No; they pay the inter- 
est promptly. 

Q. How much are they worth ? — A. I do not know what they are 
worth. I don't know why they should not be worth par ; but there is 
no market-value for them that I know of; they have never been for sale 
within my knowledge. The interest, I think, is 7 per cent. Then we 
have some Douglas County bonds, two hundred, valued at $200,000. 

Q. Do you think they would sell for par ? — A. I see no reason why 
they are not a good investment at' par, but I don't suppose that if they 
were put upon the market they would bring par, though I don't know. 

Q, Have you any idea of what their market- value is ? — A. No, sir ; I 
have not ; but that is the county in which the city of Omaha is situated, 
and they ought to be good. Then we have two hundred and twenty 
Utah Southern Railroad bonds ; that is, $220,000 worth. Then we have 
five Omaha bridge bonds ; they are worth par, $1,000 each, making 
$5,000. Then we have some Omaha City bonds, $12,500 worth; those, 
I think, are a 10 per cent. bond. Then we have some two hundred and forty 
shares of Atlantic and Pacific Telegraph stock. 

Q. That is merely your form of holding your telegraph-line, is it not? 
You do not regard that as valuable property ? — A. The shares in the 
Atlantic and Pacific Telegraph Company are valuable. 

Q. I know; but it is merely a part of the operating stock of your rail- 
road and telegraph company, under your act of incorporation, is it not ? 
It derives its entire value from the income of telegraphing along the 
road, which is one of your franchises, and that is the mode in which you 
get your proportion of the profits of the line? — A. No; we had a line 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 199 

along' the road, and an arrangement was made to consolidate that with 
the Atlantic and Pacific line, they issuing in exchange for it these 24,000 
shares of stock in the Atlantic and Pacific Company. 

Q. Have yon anything else? — A. We have some notes of small 
amounts. I do not think of anything else of considerable value. Yes, 
we have also one hundred and ten Colorado Central Railroad bonds — 
$1,000 bonds. The road is mortgaged for $15,000 a mile, and I think it 
is a good security for that amount. 

Q. Is there anything else? — A. There is an amount of money that we 
have invested in the construction of the Colorado Central Railroad, the 
bonds for which are printed, but not executed and delivered 5 that will 
amount to between seven and eight hundred thousand dollars; the 
amount is $774,827.31 ; that is for material and money advanced for the 
construction of the Colorado Central. 

Q. Is that a debt, or something that yon are to receive in stock of the 
company? — A. Something that we receive. in bonds and stock of the 
company. 

Q. Bonds at par and stock at par? — A. No; the bonds we have re- 
ceived were received at 85, 1 think. This $772,827.31 is what we are still 
to receive, 

Q. Are you to receive it in bonds and stock at the market-value when 
you receive them, so that you can immediately realize the cash on what 
you receive, or are you to receive it in the bonds and stock at par? — A. 
In bonds at 80 or 85, I suppose. 

Q. What are those bonds selling at in the market? — A. They are not 
in the market at all. 

Q. What else is there? — A. There has been delivered to the Utah 
Southern Railroad material to the amount of $213,298.61, which we are 
to receive in bonds and stock ; and the Utah Northern Railroad, 
$43,345.26. That is all, I 'believe. 

Q. If I have added this up correctly, it amounts, at its par value, to 
$1,854,000 ; is that pledged for any debts except so far as it is liable for 
the general indebtedness of the company ? — A. Most of it is pledged as 
collateral security for the various loans of the directors, and loans for 
which the directors are personally responsible. 

Q. Is it sufficient security for those loans? — A. Well, ultimately we 
should hope so. 

Q. Do you think that if put into the market it would bring $1,200,000, 
all told ?— A. O, yes. 

Q. How much do you think it would bring, all told?— A. That would 
be very difficult for me to say, but it would bring a great deal more than 
that. 

Q. Would it bring $1,500,000?— A. I should think so. 

Q. Is that about your estimate of what it would .jbring ? — A. Well, 
should not uudertake to give a close estimate. 

Q. I don't know that it is fair to ask you to give an estimate. — A. I 
don't think it is. It is a kind of property that 1 could not estimate what 
it would bring at a forced sale. 

Q. You have now stated all the property of the road except what you 
would call its operating property, which is in the hands of the superin- 
tendents ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was the net earnings of the company for the last year? — A. 
For the year closing last December ? 

Q. Yes. — A. We have not got the corrected earnings for the last 
month of the year, but as near as I can estimate the net earnings they 
were in round numJbers 5 $4,000,000. 



200 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. This 5 per cent, of the Government comes in when the road is 
completed or comes in at once ? — A. When the road is completed. 

Q. Is the road yet completed ? — A. It has not been recognized by the 
Government as completed. 

Q. Is it claimed by the company that it is completed? — A. We 
claimed long since that it was completed, and we have endeavored to 
have the land-patents of the road issued as though it were completed, 
but the Government has insisted on holding them back as collateral 
security for the completion of the road, 

Q. Of that $4,000,000 net earnings, how much is the claim against 
the Government for transportation for the past«yeac? — A. I cannot give 
you the exact figures, but it is a little rising $700,000. 

Q. Of which you concede that they are to keep back $350,000, and 
the Secretary of the Treasury claims the right to keep back the whole? 
— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Leaving you about $3,300,000 net earnings for the year 1— A. Yes, 
sir, if Governor Boutwell's position were correct. 

Q. Is not $4,000,000 a little high for the earnings of last year 1 Is it 
not one or two hundred thousand above it? — A. So, sir; I think not. 

Q. Will you now give us the debt of the company? — A. The nearest 
I can come to that is a statement which I have at my room, made up to 
the 10th of December last. Will that answer your purpose ? 

Q. We will take that. Of course you would know of any considera- 
ble increase in the debt that had taken place since that time ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

By Mr. Shell abarger : 

Q. You have stated the net earnings at a certain sum. Will you now 
please state the gross earnings of the road for that same time for which 
you gave the net earnings. — A. I have to estimate the earnings for 
December, and for the purpose of answering your question I will 
estimate them at $700,000. That would make the gross earnings 
$8,834,754.61. 

Q. Please state the items that make up the difference between the 
net and the gross earnings. — A. Expenses of conducting transporta- 
tion, motive-power, maintenance of cars, maintenance of way — the 
track ; and then there is on our returns an item of " general expenses," 
which is not large, but which contains, I suppose, items not included 
in either of the others. Then each of those items is subdivided and 
reyjorted upon very much in detail. 

Q. What percentage of the gross earnings, as near as you can state 
in round numbers, is consumed in operating the road? — A A little 
more than 50 per cent., I think. 

Q. In this statement of the difference between the gross earnings and 
the net there is not included- any interest upon the debts of the com- 
pany? — A. Not any. 

Q. And nothing for the general deterioration of the road, except that 
which is included in current repairs ? — A. That is all. 

Q. What is the length of life, as near as is yet ascertained, of rails 
upon a track such as yours is ? — A. I think perhaps seven years. 

Q. Your road was completed in 1869. Has there been any consider- 
able amount of new rails put down since your road was first made ? — 
A. Yes : as fast as the rails give evidence of wear so as to be unsafe, 
old rails are replaced with new ones. 

Q. That merely applies to the replacing of an Old rail with anew one 
when it breaks or gives out ; but you have never relaid any portion of 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 201 



your track with new rails? — A. I think they did relay a small portion 
of the eastern end of the line. 

Q. Owing to what fact? — A. Owing to the fact that the track was 
more worn there than elsewhere by the transportation of materials. 

Q. How long was that portion that was relaid? — A. I don't know. 

Q. What is the average lifetime of a set of ties, such as those upon 
your road ? — A. Not more than four or five years. 

Q. What per cent, per annum would you estimate for the deteriora- 
tion of the rolliug-stock of your road? In other words, how long, on 
the average, will a supply of rolling-stock last ? — A. I should not want 
to answer that question without further inquiry, but I could easily 
obtain for the committee reliable information on that point. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. I would like to know what were the gross and the net earnings of 
the year preceding this that you have given us ? — A. The year preced- 
ing the gross earnings were $7,679,753.11 and the net earnings were 
$3,616,838.72. 

Q. What were they for the year preceding that ? — A. The gross earn- 
ings were $7,333,961.35 and the net earnings were $3,435,257.09. 

Q. Give the gross and the net earnings for the last year up to, but not 
including, the last month of the year. — A. Gross, $8,134,754.61 ; net, 
$3,686,100.36. 1 wish to supply an omission that 1 made today, when 
you asked the number of land-grant bonds outstanding. The whole 
issue w T as $10,000,000, and the amount outstanding is $9,928,000. 

Q. What interest do they bear ? — A. Seven per cent, currency. 



Washington, D. 0., January 21, 1873. 

John M. S. Williams Sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Do you know anything of a note for $2,000,000, executed 
on the 4th of August, 1869, by the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ?— 
Answer. I remember that there was such a note for two millions given 
as part of the balance due to the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. What balance was due to the Credit Mobilier at that time ? — A. It 
was an unascertained balance supposed to be about $2,500,000. 

Q. Who were present at the time that note was executed ? — A. I can- 
not answer the question ; I do not recollect. 

Q. Were the books of the Credit Mobilier present at the time the note 
was executed ? — A. I cannot answer; I do not recollect. 

Q. To whom was that note made payable ? — A. I do not recollect. 

Q. Do you know who has possession of that note now ? — A. No. I 
think it was given to Elisha Atkins at that time. 

Q. For what purpose was it given to him ? — A. It was given to him 
as collateral for parties who signed the bonds to the State of Pennsyl- 
vania, in the suit then pending to collect taxes from the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. Does the Union Pacific Railroad Company owe the Credit Mobilier 
anything in addition to that two millions ? — A. I do not know how much 
it owes. It was supposed to owe the Credit Mobilier at that time an un- 
ascertained balance of two and a half millions. 

Q. Was there any investigation of accounts at that time, for the pur- 
pose of ascertaining whether there was any indebtedness on the part of 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company to the Credit Mobil er ? — A. I do 
not recollect that there was. 



202 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. On what account was this two and a half millions due to the Credit 
Mobilier from the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. I do not re- 
collect. 

Q. What dealings had the Union Pacific Railroad Company had with 
the Credit Mobilier ? — A. The Credit Mobilier were the contractors for 
building the first 247 miles of road. They were also entitled to a com- 
mission for guaranteeing the Oakes Ames contract- 
By Mr. Hoar: 

Q. To a commission from whom ? — A. From the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Comi)any. 

Q. To whom did the Credit Mobilier guarantee that contract? — A. The 
Credit Mobilier guaranteed to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company that 
funds should should be produced by the seven trustees. 

Q. I do not understand how that would make an indebtedness on the 
part of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. Mr. Ames agreed to give 
suitable guarantees, did he not ? — A. Yes, sir ; and the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company agreed to pay the Credit Mobilier a commission of 
2J per cent. I do not know that that was merely for a guarantee ; it 
may have been for an advance of money. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Why should the Credit Mobilier make the guarantee to the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company that those trustees would furnish the funds ? 
—A. I cannot answer. I was opposed to the whole transaction and 
was not consulted about it all. 

Q. Why should the Union Pacific Eailroad Company pay a commis- 
sion to the Credit Mobilier for the guaranteeing of funds which were to 
be furnished to somebody else to perform a contract for the Union Pa- 
cific Eailroad Company ? — A. I cannot answer $ I had nothing to do 
with it ; I was opposed to the whole transaction. 

Q. The Union Pacific Eailroad Company did agree to pay 2J per cent, 
for that guarantee? — A. To pay 2J per cent, commission for something, 
I do not understand what. I never did understand it. It was either 
for a guarantee, or for furnishing money. It was for a transaction which 
I was always opposed to. They did not let me into the matter at all. 

Q. Do you know what that 2J per cent, amounted to % — A. No, sir. 

Q. Can you state whether that 2J per cent, entered into this note at 
all or not f — A. I presume that it entered into the calculations ; I do 
not know. 

Q. Had there been any transactions between the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company and the Credit Mobilier, other than in connection with 
the Hoxie contract ?— A. Only that, and the tripartite agreement. 

Q. There had been no other transaction between the two corporations I 
— A. None that I know of. 

Q. This Hoxie contract was completed early in 1867, was it not, be- 
fore the Oakes Ames contract was let at all ? — A. Yes, I think so. 

Q. And this transaction occurred in 1869, did it not 1 — A. I do not 
know. 

Q. Can you explain why it was that this $2,000,000, for which 
this note was given, was charged back upon this Hoxie contract, on the 
books of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company? — A. I cannot. It was 
done by direction of the auditor. 

Q. Had there been anything said, between the early part of 1867 and 
the time when this transaction occurred, about the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company owing the Credit Mobilier on account of this Hoxie con- 
tract as much as $2,000,000, or any other sum? — A. It was always 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 203 

supposed that the Union Pacific Eailroad Company owed the Credit 
Mobilier a balance. I had no idea what the balance was. 

Q. Can you give any further explanation about this million-dollar note 
than you have given herein! — A. No, sir. 

Q. What were your relations to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
at the time that two-million-dollar note was given ? — A. I was treasurer 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company in 1869. 

Q. And also a considerable stockholder? — A. Yes. 

Q. Did you not understand the transaction at the time? — A. I under- 
stood it as I have just stated to the committee, that we owed the Credit 
Mobilier a balance rising two and a half million dollars. 

Q. On what ? — A. I had no definite idea on what. I supposed that 
it was made up of two different matters, one a balance for building the 
road 247 miles and the other some charge in connection with the Oakes 
Ames contract. 

Q. You say that you were opposed to the transaction of giving that 
note ? — A. No, sir ; but to the Oakes Ames contract. I was not con- 
sulted in regard to it, and had no connection with it. 

Q. Had the stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company been pub- 
licly on the market during those two years'? — A. I think not. 

Q. None had been sold or bought ? — A. No, sir ; it had no market- 
value. 

Q. It has been publicly on the market since ? — A. Yes ; I forget when 
it was brought upon the market. 

Q. When did it begin to have a marketable value ? — A. I do not re- 
collect. 

Q. Has it a marketable value now ? — A. Yes. 

Q. How much ? — A. Thirty-six dollars a share. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. On the 4th of August, 1869, were you an officer of the Credit Mo- 
bilier ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you a stockholder? — A. Yes. 

Q. To what extent? — A. Sixty-two thousand dollars. 
Was your partner also a stockholder? — A. Yes. 

Q. To what extent ? — A. Sixty-two thousand five hundred dollars. I 
had no doubt, at that time, about our owing the Credit Mobilier this 
money ; the basis on which we had that supposition was on the evi- 
ence of Mr. Ham, who had charge of the books of the Credit Mobilier. . 

Q. You took Mr. Ham's statement for it ? — A. Yes, sir ; he is a very 
correct man so far as we had any reason to suppose. 

Q. He was secretary of the Credit Mobilier at that time ? — A. Yes, 
sir ; he had charge of their books. 

Q. Is it true that the managers of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany took his statement in reference to so large a transaction as this, 
without having the books before them to investigate it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was the pressing necessity for giving a note of $2,000,000 
without having the books of those two companies present, for the pur- 
pose of ascertaining whether the money was due or not? — A. The note 
was given as collateral to those who signed the bond in the Pennsyl- 
vania tax-suit ; we had to give a personal bond in $600,000 there. 

Q. Who gave that bond? — A. Oliver Ames, John Duff, John M. S. 
Williams, and others, whose names I do not recollect. 

Q. Were the other persons who went on that bond persons who were 
interested in the Credit Mobilier and also in the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company ? — A. Yes, sir. 



204 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

Q. All of you were interested in both corporations at the time ? — A. 
Yes. 

Q. If the obligors on that bond had to pay it, they would have resorted 
to the note of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, which was given to 
them as their collateral? — A.' Yes; that is, they had that note as col- 
lateral. 

Q. Why should the Union Pacific Eailroad Company give collateral 
security to persons to secure them against an indebtedness on the part 
of the Credit Mobilier? — A. The parties becoming personally liable were 
entitled to a collateral. 

Q. But this, as I understand it, was a suit with the State of Pennsyl- 
vania, to test the question whether that Stave could tax dividends made 
by the trustees of the Credit Mobilier to their stockholders, the State of 
Pennsylvania claiming that that was in substance and effect dividends 
of the Credit Mobilier, and taxable there? — A. Yes. 

Q. And the Credit Mobilier trustees claiming that it was not a divi- 
dend made by the company to its stockholders, but by certain trustees 
to certain individuals who happened to be stockholders ; that was the 
point in the suit ?~A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, in either event, whether the Credit Mobilier had to treat this 
as a dividend or not, these men were merely contractors with the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company, were they not? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What obligation, therefore, was there on the part of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company to save these bond-makers, these obligors, 
harmless? — A. It was the obligation of the Credit Mobilier to do that. 

Q. And not the Union Pacific Eailroad Company? — A. The Credit 
Mobilier gave this collateral. The Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
gave tlie note to the Credit Mobilier, as part of the amount which it 
owed to the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. Then, your statement of the transaction is, as if you were desiring 
to give somebody security in some suit, and a person owing you a sum of 
money, you applied to him to give you a note representing part of that 
sum, that you might have something to turn to ?— A. That was the way 
with the parties who were managing the Credit Mobilier at that time. 
I was not in the management. 

Q. But had not the contract account between the Credit Mobilier 
and the Union Pacific Eailroad Company been closed on the books be- 
fore that time ? — A. I presume not ; it was very difficult to get any- 
thing closed. 

Q. -Did you see that statement which was sent to your company by 
Mr. Ham, on which you say that note was given? — A. I presume I did. 
I do not recollect. 

Q. Do you recollect what items the statement of account contained ? — 
A. I do not recollect any items. 

Q. AVhere is that account now ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. Did the company preserve papers of such value ? — A. If there was 
a regular account made it would be preserved, but the company would 
probably take Mr. Ham's statement that so much was due, without an 
account. 

Q. You are not able to say whether such statement was made ? — A. 
I do not know whether it was or not. 

Q. Would a statement like that be likely to be recorded in any books ? — 
A. I do not presume there would be any account of it, except what Mr. 
Ham might furnish. 

Q. But Mr. Ham was an officer of the Credit Mobilier, and was not an 
officer of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company? — A. Yes. But the 



CREDIT MO.BILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 205 

Union Pacific Railroad Company only gave a note on an unascertained 
balance of account. 

Q. Do you know how much it was? — A. I suppose it was about two 
and a half millions. 

Q. You say that there was an account sent there by Mr. Ham, and on 
that account a note was given ? — A. I am not certain of that. I also 
said that we would take Mr. Ham's word for anything of that kind. If 
he said tbat the Union Pacific Railroad Company owed the Credit Mo- 
bilier that sum of money we would take his word. 

Q. Without investigation % — A. Yes. 

Q. Although you were an officer of a company whose interests were 
adverse ! — A. We did not consider them adverse. 

Q. Were they identical ? — A. They were so nearly identical that we 
did not think there was much difference between them. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Have you in your possession, or under your control, a statement of 
the affairs of the Credit Mobilier of America up to the 30th September, 
1867, and a statement of the cost of the road east of the one hundredth 
meridian ? — A. I presume not. I should not be likely to have. 

Q. Do you recollect ever having had any such statement % — A. I think 
I had some memorandum of such a thing as that. 

Q. Do you know what has become of it? — A. I presume Mr. Ham has 
it in charge, or has had it in charge. 

Q. Do I understand you to say that you have no such statement 
now ? — A. I have not. I would not be likely to have. I am entirely 
out of both companies. 

Q. I will read you a letter which was written to you : 

"November 1.5,' 1867. 
"Dear Sir: Inclosed herewith I send you a statement of the Credit 
Mobilier of America up to September 30 ; also, statement of cost of road 
east of the one hundredth meridian. I will send you in a day or two 
statement of what the road has actually cost, being the amount ex- 
pended both by the Credit Mobilier of America and the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company. 

«B. F. H . 

"John M. S. Williams, Esq." 

Q. Do you recollect receiving any such statement as that? — A." I do 
not recollect. I probably may have received it. 

Q. Have you any papers in your possession or under your control of 
that character ! — A. I do not know that I have. I paid no attention to 
them for several years ; I have had no occasion to use them or refer to 
them at all. 

By Mr. SHELLABARGER : 

Q. You were asked by Mr. Hoar about the price of this stock at one 
time. Please to state when the stock attained its highest price in the 
stock-market and what that highest price was. — A. I cannot answer 
that precisely, but my impression is that it was in June, 1870, and $15 
a share. 

Q. Now it is about $10 a share lower f — A. Yes ; it is now 36. 

Q. When did it decline?— A. At the time that Mr. Boutwell made 
that unlawful seizure of the funds of the company it went down to $10 
a share. 



206 CKEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. What official position did you hold iu the Credit Mobilier on the 
9th March, 1867 ?— A. None. 

Q. Did you hold any official position in the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company at that time ? — A. Yes. 

Q/What?— A. Treasurer. 

Q. Have you any recollection of a special committee having been ap- 
pointed for the purpose of settling special legal expenses? — A. Yes. 

Q, Look at this record (already in evidence in Mr. Bollins's testimony) 
and see if it has reference to that transaction ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you recollect that committee having made a report in regard 
to that matter! — A. No, sir 5 they did not report to me. They reported 
to the board. 

Q. Did you ever see the report that was made? — A. I do not recol- 
lect about that. 

Q. Look at this paper, (handing witness the report of the special com- 
mittee already in evidence.) — A. I think I have seen that paper before. 

Q. That is the report of the committee on these special legal ex- 
penses? — A. Yes. 

Q. What do you know in reference to the payment of that $126,000 ? — 
A. I do not know anything about it, except my payiDg it to Mr. Dodge. 

Q. You paid the money to Mr. Dodge? — A. Yes, sir; that is my re- 
collection of it. 

Q. What kind of vouchers did you receive from him ? — A. I do not 
recollect. 

Q. Where was that money paid to Mr. Dodge ? — A. In the office of 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, at Boston. 

Q. How long after this report was made did you pay that money to 
Mr. Dodge? — A. I presume it w r as paid at the same time. 

Q. Had you and Mr. Dodge been in Washington shortly before this 
money was paid to him ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. For what purpose was that money paid to Mr. Dodge ?— A. I do 
not know anything about it, except the resolution. 

Q. Have you any information on that subject ? — A. None at all. I 
•had nothing to do with the spending of it in any way, form, or shape, 
and was not consulted. 

Q. Did you hear any person say what use that money had been ap- 
plied to or was to be applied to? — A. Nothing more than the resolu- 
tion. 

Q. Was that matter not talked over ? — A. I was not present when it 
was talked over. 

Q. Were you not present when this committee was appointed ? — A. 
I was in another room, and. was not advised with nor consulted. 

Q. Had you known that that committee was to be appointed? — A. I 
did not know it until the record showed it. I was not consulted in the 
matter at all. 

Q. How long had you been in Washington at the time you spoke of? — 
A. I do not recollect. I came here two or three different times to attend 
the meetings of the directors. 

A. You were here shortly before the committee was appointed, when 
Mr. Dodge was here? — A. Yes, but I was not here on the subject of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 

Q. How long had you remained here? — A. I do not recollect; I came 
here on another matter. I had nothing to do here with the Union 
Pacific Eailroad matter. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 207 

Q. You bad something to do with the Credit Mobilier? — A. No, sir; 
nothing in Washington. 

Q. You were at that time treasurer of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company ? — A- Yes; hut I was not here on those matters. 

Q. How long were you here shortly before this thing occurred ? — A. 
I do not recollect. I was a few days attending to a claim which finally 
succeeded in getting through Congress. 

Q. Can you give any reason why the special services for which this 
$126,000 was paid were not specified in some way or other on the books 
of the company ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know of no reason why this matter has been kept in this 
obscure way, so as not to show to whom the money was paid or for 
what services it was paid ? — A. No ; I know of no reason. 

Q. Do you not know that it was intended that the books should be 
so kept as that it should not be known for what purpose this money was 
expended ! — A. No, sir ; I know nothing about it. I only know that, 
as treasurer of the company, I paid the money on the authority of that 
special committee. I had no responsibility beyond that. I was not 
consulted or advised with. 

Q. And you received no information from any quarter as to what this 
money was paid for ?— A. I did not. 

Q. Have you ever heard any person connected either with the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company or with the Credit Mobilier say for what pur- 
pose that money was paid? — A. I have heard hearsay evidence. 

Q. From whom did you hear it ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. What did you hear ? — A. I heard that it was spent to keep the 
bonds of the company from going out of sight. 

Q. In what way ? — A. To help keep up the market price, and that 
money was lost in doing it. 

Q. Why should that be called special legal expenses ? — A. I do not 
know; I do not know that it was so. I stated that it was only hearsay 
evidence. 

Q. How did you pay it? — A. I don't know. 

Q. You say you paid it to Mr. Dodge, I think ; did you not pay it in 
checks or drafts ? You did not count out $126,000 in bills, I suppose f — . 
A. I presume I paid it in checks. I suppose I drew checks and got the 
money and paid it part in bills and part in checks. That is how I pre- 
sume it was, but I am not sure. 

Q. Had you any voucher? — A. I have no doubt there was a voucher. 

Q. What sort of a voucher ? — A. I presume, Mr. Dodge's receipt and 
that resolution. 

Q. The vote of the committee required you to pay it to the secretary, 
Mr. Rollins ? — A. I think I paid it to Mr. Dodge ; that is my impression ; 
he was the man that came to me 

Q. Do you recollect how it happened that it was not paid to Mr. Rol- 
lins, according to the vote? The vote is that the sum be paid to the 
secretary, to be by him paid. — A. That I don't know. 

Q. Your recollection is that it was paid to Dodge ? — A. I suppose it 
was; he is the only man that comes to my mind distinctly in connection 
with the transaction. 

Q. Mr. Rollins testifies that you or your cashier brought him the 
checks; that the treasurer or his cashier brought him the checks 
or drafts, and that he indorsed them, and that they were taken away 
again. — A. 1 have no recollection of it. I recollect the general fact of 
dealing with Mr. Dodge in connection with that $126,000. It might 
have been in a dozen different ways and I should not remember it. I 



208 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

was full of care at the time; I had a very hard row to hoe just theu^ 
and I used to work at my office every night until 12 o'clock. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. At the time you were here, that you have mentioned, was that leg- 
islation of 1871 in relation to the Pacific Railroads pending before Con- 
gress ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were any parties herewith reference to that legislation? — A. I 
think Mr. Dodge was here, and I think Mr. Bushnell was here. 

Q. Who else were here looking after that legislation? — A. I do not 
remember. 

Q. Were there not a number of persons who were interested in the 
Union Pacific Railroad here in Washington, seeking to get that legisla- 
tion through? — A. I remember only Mr. Dodge and Mr. Bushnell. 

Q. Do you recollect Mr. Duff having been here ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you recollect Mr. Rollins being here? — A. I think he was; I 
forget whether he was here when I was here or not. 

Q. Mr. Oakes Ames was at t that time a member of Congress? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you recollect Thomas A. Scott being here ? — A. I presume he 
was here ; I don't recollect meeting him here. 

Q. The ruling or action of the Secretary of the Treasury had had the 
effect, if I understand you, to knock the stock down? — A. Yes,, sir. 

Q. How long before this time had the stock thus been prostrated ?— 
A. I do not remember the time when he macje that decision. 

Q. Do you remember about what the stock was worth at the time we 
have been referring to, before there was any legislation on the subject 
by Congress, in 1871, and after the Secretary had made that order ? — 
A. It fell to 10. 

Q. Was it worth about 10 at the time those gentlemen were here look- 
ing after that legislation ? — A. Yes, sir. I do not know whether it had 
got so low as that at that time, however. 

Q. But it was very low ? — A. Yes ; but I think it was about 20 at that 
time — from 20 to 10 ; it varied. 

Q. Do you know anything of any arrangements having been made 
fo have no newspaper reports sent out with reference to what was going 
on here, pending that legislation? — A. No, sir; I do not know anything 
about it. 

Q. Do you know anything of parties having made large purchases of 
Union Pacific Railroad Company's stock prior to the passage of that 
bill? — A. No, sir; I don't know anything about it. 

Q. Did you ever hear of anything of that sort ? — A. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Q. When ?— A. I do not have any distinct recollection of it, only 
I know it was the talk. 

Q. Was it not understood in private circles, among those who were 
engaged and interested in this matter, that such arrangements had been 
made ? — A. I heard so ; I did not know anything about it ; I was not in 
it, and had nothing to do with it. 

Q. Did you not hear of money having been paid to newspaper cor- 
respondents in order to induce them not to send out any reports from 
here as to what was going on with reference to that bill ? — A. I never 
heard of it, to my knowledge. 

Q. But you did hear that efforts were made to keep the reports from 
going out? — A. No, sir; I never heard of it. 

Q. You understood that there were purchases being made ? — A. Yes, 
sir ; I heard that. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 209 

Q. But you did not hear about arrangements being made to keep 
back the reports f — A. No, sir. 

Q. What was the effect of the legislation of 1871 upon the price of 
Union Pacific stock"? — A.. It went up to about 30. 

By Mr. Siiellabarger : 

Q. Did you hear at that time that certain sums of money were paid 
to newspaper reporters for suppressing news of what was going on 1 — 
A. I did not either know anything about it or hear anything about it. 

Q. Did you know of members of Congress being invited or induced 
to buy stock when it was down to 10 cents on the dollar, when that 
legislation was pending % — A. No, sir, I did not ; I was not consulted 
with reference to anything like that. 

Q. You were wholly disconnected from that matter % — A. Yes, sir ; I 
was attending to my own business here at that time, and had nothing 
to do with the Union Pacific business. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. I did not exactly understand your statement awhile ago about keep- 
ing the bonds up % — A, 1 stated that I had heard that this money had 
been used to keep the securities from depreciating. 

Q. How ! — A. I do not know how. 

Q. Do you mean by procuring legislation tending to keep them from 
depreciating! — A. I don't know, sir. 

Q. Who would be likely to know all the facts about the expenditure 
of that $120,000 %— A. Mi\ Dodge seemed the head and front of it. 

Q. But they would not trust that all to one man % — A. Mr. Dodge and 
Mr. Bushneli seemed to be the leading minds. 

Q. Was Mr. Bushneli in any office then % — A. He was a director. 

Q. Who was president at that time 1 — A. I think it was Oliver Ames.' 

Q. Was he here during that legislation ? — A. I don't; remember. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. Were you here on Union Pacific business in 1869 1 — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you here on Union Pacific business in 1871, just prior to the 
time that this committee was appointed on this special legal-service 
matter f — A. No, sir; but I was in Washington on'some private business 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. You were not here at any time during that session on Union Pacific 
Railroad Company's business ! — A. No, sir ; I was here on private busi- 
ness. 

Q. Were you in the confidence of the principal managers of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company at that time f — A. I was not. 

By Mr. SHELLABARGrER : 

Q. Can you give any explanation why there was no entry made on 
any of the books of the railroad company of that transaction, whereby 
it would appear what use was made of that money ? — A. I can give no 
explanation of it, sir. 

Q. Is it usual in the book-keeping of that company that so large 
amounts are expended in one transaction ■? — A. No, sir; it is not. 

Q. When there is no entry anywhere to be found showing how it was 
expended ? — A. There was no other such large amount entered at any 
time; therefore, there is no " usual" about it. 

Q. Was it usual, then, to have expenditures of any considerable 
14 cm 



210 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC EAILEOAD. 

amount made by the Union Pacific Railroad Company, without there 
being any book or paper to show what use was made of it? — A. I have 
no doubt there was a voucher for this, as in all other cases of expendi- 
ture of money. 

Q. Was there any voucher explaining where the money was expended, 
and for what purpose, and by whom paid? — A. I presume not; I pre- 
sume no voucher explains for what purpose ; the voucher would be the 
authority of that committee's report that was read, with the resolution. 

Q. Were the affairs of that company transacted, usually and habitu- 
ally in such a way as that a mere receipt from one officer of the railroad 
company to another officer of the railroad company, without showing 
anything about what the mouey was used for, or any items at all, was 
treated as a good voucher for so large a sum or for any considerable 
sum of money ? — A. That of itself would not be ; but with the authority 
of the executive committee it would be. 

Q. Did not that executive committee, in all their affairs, preserve some 
account, either in books or otherwise, showing how they disposed of the 
money of the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. I don't know 
whether there were other cases or not ; there might have been ; it would 
have been reasonable to have had them. 

Q. Cases where there was no indication furnished by any existing 
paper or book of what was done with the money? — A. I don't know of 
any cases; none come to my mind : but the authority of the executive 
committee was sufficient for the treasurer. 

Q. I am not trying to get at the question whether you did right or 
wrong; that is not the point at all ; what I want to get at is, whether 
this transaction, which fails to show any use to which that money was 
applied, except that it was for " special legal expenses," was in accord- 
ance with the practice and the book-keeping of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company, or whether it was unusual and exceptional? — A. 1 
should say that it was so different from any other payments that it 
would be difficult to place it under either of your heads. 



Washington, D. C, January 22, 1873. 
Testimony of E. H. Rollins continued. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Question. State in detail the indebtedness of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company so far as you know it. — A. I have with me a statement 
of the indebtedness of the company on December 10, 1872, which is the 
latest statement that has been made up. It was made up for the direct- 
ors at that time. The footing is as follows : 

Currency fl, 412, 613 33 

Gold 120, 000 00 

Q. That is what you call your current indebtedness as distinguished 
from your funded indebtedness? — A. Yes, sir. The detailed statement 
is as follows: 

A. — Staiement of notes payable December 10, 1872. 

NOTES DUE IN DECEMBER. 

June 10. . 6 months, G. T. M. Davis, due December 10 

to 13 |11,593 01 

Sept. 2. No. 1337, 3 months, L. P. Morton, due December 2 

to 5 .- 25,000 00 (Paid.. 

Oct. 2. No. 1371, CO days, Oliver Ames, due December 1 to 4. 15, 000 00 
Oct. 2. No. 1372, 00 days, Oliver Ames, due December 1 to 4. 10, 000 00 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 211 

Oct. 1. No. 1373, 60 days, John Duff, due December 3 $25,000 00 

Oct. 1. No. 1374, 60 days, John Duff, due December 3 25, 000 00 

Oct. 1. No. 1375, 60 days, John Duff, due December 3 25, 000 00 

Oct. 1. No. J 376, 60 days, John Duff, due December 3 25, 000 00 

Oct. 1. No. 1377, 60 days, John Duff, due December 3 25, 000 00 

Oct. 1. No. 1376, 60 days, John Duff, due December 3 25, 000 00 

Oct. 1. No. 1379, 60 days, John Duff, due December 3 25^000 00- 

Oct. 1. No. 1331, 60 days, John Duff, due December 3 18, 849 95 

Oct. 26. No. 1257. 60 days, Oliver Ames, due December 25 to 

28 ..,'. 10,009 00 

Oct. 28. No. 1258, 60 days, Oliver Ames, due December 27 to 

30 ; 10,000 00 

Oct. 26. No. 1260, 60 days, Oliver Ames, due December 25 to 

28 10,000 00 

Oct. 25. No. 1335, 60 days, E. Atkins & Co., due December 24 

to 27 5,000 00 

Oct. 23. No. 1336, 60 days, E. Atkins & Co., due December 22 

to 25 10, 000 00 

Sept. 2. No. 1336, 3 months, Sidney Dillon, due December 2 

to 5 25,000 00) Deducted 

Sept. 2. No. 1340, 3 months, Augustus Schell. due December > -ueuucieu 

2 to 5., 1 25,000 00 ) at l00t ' 

$350,442 96 

NOTES DUE IN JANUARY. 

Oct. 5. , 3 months, Harris & Foster, due January 5 

to 8 10,883 47 

Nov. 14. No. 1415, 60 days, Joliet Iron and Steel Company, 

due January 18 to 21 11,000 00 

Nov. 14. No. 1416, 60 days, Joliet Iron and Steel Company, 

due January 13 to 21 11,000 00 

Nov. 14. No. 1417, 60 days, Joliet Iron and Steel Ccmpan}-, 

due January 13 to 21 11,000 00 

Nov. 14. No. 14 L8, 60 days, Joliet Iron and Steel Company, 

due January 18 to 21 :. 11,047 22 

Nov. 11. ,70 days, Harris & Foster, due January 20 to 23. 10,514 68 

Sept. 9. No. 1252, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due January 9 to 12. 10, 000 00 

— 75, 450 37 

NOTES £>UE IN FEBRUARY. 

Oct. 1. No. 1366, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due February 1 to 4. 25,000 00 

Oct. 1. No. 1367, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due February 1 to 4. 25,000 00 

Oct. 1. No. 1368, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due February 1 to 4 . 25, 000 00 

Oct. 1. No. 1380, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due February 1 to 4. 10, 000 00 
Oct. 11. No. 1254, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due February 11 to 

14 15,000 00 

Nov. 30. No. 1391, 60 days, G. M. Pullman, due February 1. . . 25, 000 00 

Nov. 30. No. 1392, 60 days, G. M. Pullman, due February 1. .. 25, 000 00 

Nov. 30. No. 1393, 60 days, G. M. Pullman, due February 1. .. 20, 000 00 

Nov. 30. No. 1400, 60 days, Oakes Ames, due February i 10, 000 00 < 

Dec. 3. No. 1401, 60 days, Oakes Ames, due February 1 to 4. 25, 000 00 

Dec. 2. No. 1405, 60 days, Oakes Ames, due February 3 25, 000 00 

Nov. 30. No. 1408, 60 days, Oakes Ames, due February 1 10, 000 00 

Nov. 30. No. 1394, 60 days, H. F. Clark, due February 1 25, 000 00 

Dec. 2. No. 1395, 60 days, H. F. Clark, due February 1 25, 000 00 

Dec. 3. No. 1396, 60 days. H. F. Clark, due February 1 to 4.. 20, 000 00 

Nov. 30. No. 1397, 60 days,' Augustus Schell, due February 1 . . 25, 000 00 

Dec. 2. No. 1398, 60 days, Augustus Schell, due February 3. . 25, 000 00 
Dec. 3. No. 1399, 60 days, Augustus Schell, due February 1 

to 4 20,000 00 

Nov. 30. No. 1402, 60 days, J. H. Barker, due February 1 25, 000 00 

Dec. 2. No. 1403, 60 days, J. H. Barker, due February 1 25, 000 00 

Dec. 2. No. 1407, 60 days, L. P. Morton, due February 1 .... 25, 000 00 

Dec. 3. No. 1419, 60 days, F. G. Dexter, due February 2 .... 25, 000 00 

Dec. 3. No. 1423, 60 days, S. Dillon, due February 2 25, 000 00 

Dec. 5. No. 1424, 60 days, S. Dillon, due February 4 25, 000 00 

Dec. 4. No. 1425, 60 days, S. Dillon, due February 3 20, 000 00 

Dec. 3. No. 1414, 60 days, L. P. Morton, due February 4 . . . . 25, 000 00 

Dec. 3. No. 1413, 60 days, L. P. Morton, due February 4 . . . . 20, 000 00 

Dec. 5. No. 1427, 2 months, John Duff, due February 5 to 8 . 25, 000 00 

Dec. 3. No. 1404, 60 days, J. H. Barker, due February 1 to 4. 20, 000 00 

640,000 00 



212 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

2\ T OTES DUE IN MARCH. 

Nov. 1. No. 1382, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due March 1 to 4.. $20, 000 00 
Nov. 4. No. 1383, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due March 4 to 7.. 30, 000 00 
Nov. 16. No. 1388, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due March 16 to 19. 26, 000 00 
Nov. 16. No. 1389, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due March 16 to 19. ' 20,000 00 
Nov. 16. No. 1390, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due March 16 to 19. 26, 000 00 
Nov. 30. No. 1421, 3 'months, L. P. Morton, due March 3 ..... . 25, 000 00 

$147, 000 00 

NOTES DUE IN APRIL. 

Dec. 3. No. 1409, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due April 3 to 6. .. 25, 000 00 

Nov. 30. No. 1410, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due April 2 25, 000 00 

Dec. 3. No. 1411, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due April 3 to 6. .. 5, 000 00 
Dec. 3. No. 1412, 4 months, Oliver Ames, due April 3 to 6. . . 25, 000 00 
Dec. 3. No. 1428, 4 months, F. G. Dexter, due April 3 to 6. . . 30, 000 00 

110,000 00 

DEMAND NOTES. * 

" 1871. 

Dec. 14. Demand No. 1138, Oliver Ames 19, 875 00 

Aug. 27. No. 1313, 60 days, John Duff, trustee 50, 000 00 

Nov. 1. Demand No. 1387, Oliver Ames 19, 875 00 

— - 89,750 00 

Total notes out December 10, 1872 4 1, 412, 643 33 

Deduct two notes Nos. 1336 and 1340 .. 50,000 00 

1, 362, 643 33 
Callloan due Bank of Commerce :.. 50,000 00 

1,412,643 33 

Due January 17 .' £40,000 

Due January 17 40,000 

Due January 30 40,000 

120, 000 



Q. Is that all the indebtedness of the company, so far as you are 
aware, except its indebtedness for current expenses, such as salaries, 
wages, repair-accounts, &c. u ? — A. And the $2,000,000 note. 

Q. That is a statement" of all the current indebtedness of the company 
except that growing out of the operating expenses for the year, and the 
$2,000,000 note ?— A. And the interest on the funded debt 

Q. Be good enough to state the funded indebtedness of the company. — 
A. The first-mortgage 6 per cent, gold bonds, interest and 

principal both payable in gold .. $27, 237, 000 

Land- grant bonds, 7 per cent, currency 8, 928, 000 

(The original issue was $10,400,000.) 

Income-bonds 10 per cent, currency 10, 000, 000 

Government subsidy bonds 21, 236, 512 

Interest paid by the United States $6, 981, 752 49 

Interest repaid by transportation of mails, 

&c 2, 29G, 875 90 

Balance of interest unpaid 4, 684, 876 59 

Interest due and not yet paid 817, 095 36 

Then there are Omaha-Bridge bonds issued under special act of Con- 
gress. The company is liable for the interest on these if the earnings 
from the bridge do not pay it. The original issue was $2,500,000, and 
the amount at present outstanding is $2,462,000. The interest is 8 per 
cent, in gold. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 213 

Q. Has the interest been paid from the tolls collected on the bridge % — 
A. It has been paid by the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, but has 
been repaid by the bridge company. The account has not been made 
up accurately as between the bridge company and the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company. 

Q. Do you regard the railroad company's security on these bonds as 
ample and sufficient'? — A. Yes; I think that the earnings of the bridge 
are ample to pay the interest on the bonds. 

Q. Is that prospective, or do you speak of the present earnings ? — A. 
I think its actual earnings would pay the interest now. 

Q. Has it done so in the past? — A. I think it has. 

Q. What is the Omaha bridge? — A. It is a bridge over the Missouri 
River between Council Bluffs and Omaha. 

Q. Where the railroad bridge and a public bridge are combined ? — A. 
The design is to use it as a bridge for the public. The bridge company 
transports passengers over the bridge in street-cars, small cars with a 
"dummy engine; and they propose to plank the bridge so that teams 
may pass over it. 

Q. Does not the railroad cross the river by this same bridge? — A. 
Yes. That is, we*receive the freight and passengers from the eastern 
roads. They are transported over the bridge, and all business between 
the East and West is transported over that bridge. 

Q. Are there any arrears of interest unpaid on your first-mortgage 
bonds? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you cash enough in the treasury to meet all the interest not 
paid at maturity ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. State about how much there is of interest overdue and not paid. — 
A. I cannot do so without examining the books. 

Q. Then, according to your estimate, if I have footed it correct, the 
indebtedness of the company, not including arrears of interest on the 
first-mortgage bonds, is $78,903,033. Is there any other obligation of 
the road which you have not stated ? — A. I think not. 

Q. You have not included in that enumeration any claim of the Gov- 
ernment for interest on the interest paid on the bonds, supposing that 
such a claim exists ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. The claim of the company is, as you understand it, that the Gov- 
ernment is to receive, at the maturity of the bonds, with the exception 
of the 5 per cent, and the half of the sum paid for transportation, the 
capital of the-bonds and simple interest, but no compound interest? — 
A. I suppose that would be our construction of it. The question has 
never been raised as to whether it is to be computed at simple interest 
or compound interest. I do not feel authorized to speak as to the posi- 
tion of the company on that point. 

Q. Has the Government received any portion of the 5 per cent, of net 
profits which it was to have in a certain contingency ? — A. It has not. 
The Government has never recognized the road as completed. 

Q. Do you regard it as very greatly to the interest of the company 
that the Government should recognize the road as completed ? — A. That 
is a pretty nice question. 

Q. What is your answer to it? — A. I should be in favor of its being 
recognized. 

Q. I ask you whether you regard it as greatly to the interest of the 
company that it should be? — A. Not greatly; but I regard it as for the 
interest of the company. 

Q. Do you know of any official statement of the Government position 



214 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

as to what amount of money should yet be expended to make the road 
complete? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where is it ? — A. In the Interior Department. 

Q. In what form ? — A. It consists, I think, of the report ot five emi- 
nent citizens appointed under the law of 1869. 

Q. What amount of money do they represent as necessary to complete 
the road according to their claim ? — A. $1, '586,100. 

Q. I have omitted one item of your assets, I think, and that is the 
amount of public lands which you have received and disposed of, and 
the amount of public lands which you have yet to receive, supposing 
that you comply with the conditions of the act of Congress. — A. I sup- 
pose there are upwards of 11,000,000 of acres yet unsold to which we 
are entitled under the law. 

Q. Are not these 11,000,000 acres the least valuable portion of the 
public lands to which the Union Pacific Railroad Company is entitled 
under the act of Congress, being situated in the barren portions of your 
route ? — A. I think not. There is a good deal of very valuable land yet* 
undisposed of on the eastern end of the route. 

Q. Do these land-grant bonds entitle the holders of them to receive a 
certain portion of the lands absolutely, or are they bonds by which you 
have undertaken to create a security or lien on the lands ? — A. They 
have undertaken to mortgage the lands to the bond-holders, and the 
bonds are redeemable in land. The owner of a bond can purchase land 
with the bond at the valuation. 

Q. What is the valuation? — A. The value is fixed by the company. 
Up to the 1st of January, 1873, the whole number of acres sold was 
651,598.54 acres. The average price per acre was $1.25 T f q. The num- 
ber of purchasers 3,814, and the total amount of sales is $2,857,554.90. 
The amount of contracts outstanding on that day for land sold was 
$1,466,453.59. That money, when collected, will be used for the redemp- 
tion of additional bonds. 

Q. In your judgment, can the road go through next year and meet 
its obligations in the course of business without assistance from outside 
credit? 

The Witness. What do you mean by outside credit ? 

Mr. Hoar. I mean any credit other than that of the corporation itself. 

A. I think the road will need, to carry it through next year, with its 
present floating debt, the same assistance that it has had in the past. 

Q. What do you mean by the same assistance ? — A. The loans of the 
directors or other parties. 

Q. To what extent? — A. To the extent of the present floating indebt- 
edness. 

Q. About how much in round numbers? — A. Probably something 
over $2,000,000. 

Q. You do not understand that the directors are under any legal obli- 
gation to extend to the company that assistance? — A. No, sir; I do 
not. 

Q. If that obligation should be withheld, either by the death of those 
directors or by any change of purpose, then you think the company 
would fail and become insolvent, do you?— A. I do not. I think the 
road can now earn money enough to pay its running expenses and the 
interest on its funded debt. 

By Mr. Slocum: 
Q. Do you mean the interest on all its funded debt? — A. Yes, sir ; esti- 



CREDIT M0BILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 215 

mating as receipts the moiety which we now receive from the Govern- 
ment, the half of the earnings for Government transportation. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. But it could not do it if the Government should withhold the other 
moiety"? — A. No; I do not think it could at present, and still it might 
be able to do it 5 it is very difficult to determine. 

Q. Is your road in a condition in which the diminution of its reve- 
nues to an amount of some $400,000 or $500,000 by the Government 
withholding the other half of its charges for transportation, and the 
withholding of outside aid to the extent of $2,000,000 by the directors, 
would cause it to become bankrupt 1 — A. I do not know whether the 
money could be borrowed on the credit of the company ; it might be 
very difficult and verj T expensive; but I should hardly like to swear 
thut the company would become bankrupt, because a more skillful 
treasurer, a better financial man than myself, might be able to borrow 
-the money. 

Q. Your judgment is that it would require a more skillful treasurer 
than yourself to manage it! — A. I mean to say that a more skillful 
financier might borrow the money at a better rate. 

Q. Do you see any way yourself to do it ? — A. In the present condi- 
tion of the money market of the country it would be very difficult. 

Q. In round numbers how much has the floating debt increased since 
the 10th of December, 1872? — A. About half a million, to pay coupons 
on first-mortgage bonds maturing January 1. The floating debt of the 
company had been reduced half a million from current earnings just 
prior to the date of the statement, so that during two months the debt 
was not increased, while a considerable saving of interest was effected. 

Q. No more ? — A. I think not. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. State how much of this indebtedness of which you have furnished 
a statement is now in overdue notes. — A. A very small proportion of 
it, which has never been presented. 

Mr. Hoar. If Mr. Eollins desires, on reflection, to add any explana- 
tion to these answers, he will be permitted to do so within a reasonable 
time. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. State whether it has been the habit of the company to put aside a 
sinking-fund for the renewal of the iron of the road % — A. No, sir. 

Q. What is your estimate of the length of time that rails will last on 
a road of that character ? — A.' I suppose from seven to ten years. 

Q. Are you in the habit of putting aside a fund for the purpose of re- 
producing the rail at the expiration of that time ? — A. No, sir ; we put 
in a very large number of ties every year ; as fast as the ties wear^out 
we replace them ; that is part of the operating expenses of the road. 

Q. But you have not done that with reference to the rails % — A. Yes ; 
the same course *is pursued with reference to the rails ; we have no fund 
set apart, but as fast as the rails wear out we replace them with new 
iron. 

Q. But still you have no sinking-fund provided in case the receipts of 
the road do not enable the company to renew the iron % — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you not think that that ought to be a charge on the net 
profits f — A. We have only deducted for such iron as we replaced last 
year. 

Q. What would be a fair estimate of the cost of the iron required to 



216 CKEDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC EAILEOAD. 

relay the entire line of the road % — A. Iron is worth from $85 to 
too. 

Q. What would be the cost of that iron in money at the present rates 
for the whole road ? — A. I have not the data here ; I will supply it. 

Q, So that the net proceeds of the road are the net proceeds less this 
sinking-fund, which yon ought to provide"? — A. Yes; if current repairs 
do not equal depreciation. 

Q. Did you say that you had in the employment of the company per- 
manent counsel ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who are the permanent counsel of the company % — A. We employ 
as counsel, at Boston, Mr. Sidney Bartlett. 

Q. How much does the company pay him ? — A. At the commence- 
ment of the year we give him a general retainer of $1,000, and then we 
pay him, from time to time, according to the services rendered. He has 
no fixed salary. 

Q. What is the average of those salaries which you have paid to the 
permanent counsel employed by the company ! — A. I should think about i 
$5,000 a year. 

Q. What others have you employed ? — A. A. J. Poppleton, at Omaha, 
Nebraska. He has been our counsel for some years. I think we pay 
him $10,000 a year ; he devoting all his time to the interests of the 
road. He has an assistant who receives, I think, $3,000 a year. 

Q. What other counsel have you % — A. We have counsel in New York 
who are attending some special cases there, among others the famous 
Fisk suit. It is the firm of Eminett, Hammond & Pomeroy. They 
charge for services rendered. 

Q. What is the aggregate that you have paid them in a single year? 
— A. (Keferring to the book.) The entries are so made that I cannot 
tell what their services would amount to, but I think it would be about 
$5,000, or perhaps more. 

Q. As nearly as you can guess it would be about $5,000 a year ! — A. 
Yes ; I think it would amount to that. 

A. And not' to any more than that ? — A. Probably not. 

Q. Who else besides these counsel are regularly employed by the 
company ?— A. I do not think we have any others. 

Q. I understood you to say that the counsel employed in Washington, 
or who received that amount of $126,000, were outside of the regular 
counsel of the company. They had nothing to do with the routine of 
the company's business? — A. I do not know to whom the money was 
paid. 1 do not know that any of the money was paid to the regular 
counsel of the company. I think it was not. 

Q. This was an outside operation %— A. Yes, sir 5 I think so; outside 
of the regular counsel of the company. 

Q. And you know nothing about that transaction at all? — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. It did not pass under your supervision, except in the way you have 
stated, merely to transfer the money to others % — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know what was done with that money? — A. No, sir. 

Q. The money amounted to $126,000, and it does not appear in any 
shape or form on the books of the company %— A. No, sir. 

Q. It was used in outside transactions of which you know nothing f — 
A. I know nothing. 

Q. And you do not know that the gentlemen.who received that money 
were here in Washington % — A. No, sir ; I do not know who received it. 

Q. And there is not the stroke of a pen on the books of the company 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 217 

for any part of this $126,000 ? — A. There is a general entry on the books 
of the"$126,000. That is all. 

Q. Have you a general superintendent on the line of this road ? — A. 
Yes. 

Q. When he submits his reports he gives you a schedule and account 
of the rolling-stock ? — A. I think so. 

Q. Everything relating to the general transportation of the road? — 
A. Yes. 

Q. You are in the habit of acting on these reports on the disburse- 
ments made from month to month, growing out of transportation. When 
cars want repairs the disbursements are made on the estimates of the 
general superintendent f — A. The disbursements for that purpose are 
made on the line of the road. 

Q. By whom I — A. By the disbursing-officer at Omaha. 

Q. Who is he? — A. N. Shelton, who is called the cashier. 

Q. Is he an engineer? — A. No, sir. 
♦ Q. How does he know the accuracy of these demands made upon him 
by the general superintendent ?— A. If a car breaks down it is taken to 
the shops and repaired by our ordinary force. • 

Q. Under the report of somebody ? — A. Yes, sir ; of the man who has 
charge of the car department. 

Q. The matter of transportation is under the general supervision of 
a general superintendent ? — A. Certainly. 

Q. I want to know how these disbursements for repairs are made ; 
whether on the order of the chief engineer or of the general superintend- 
ent ; and, if under the order of the general superintendent, whether 
those estimates are sanctioned by the chief engineer or any other 
officer ? — A. The ordinary repairs of cars and engines are all made in our 
shops on the line of the road at various points. The men working in 
them are on the pay-rolls, and the pay-rolls are made up monthly. 

Q. Who makes up those pay-rolls 1 — A. We have clerks for that pur- 
pose under the supervision of the chiefs of each department. 

Q. It is under the control of the division engineers? — A. The car 
department would be under the control of the chief of that department ; 
and the locomotive department under the control of the chief of thai de- 
partment. Then the vouchers go to the auditor, who carefully examines 
the whole. No payment of money is made save on vouchers approved 
by the auditor after careful examination ; and even the check for the 
payment of the money is approved by the auditor. The bills for ma- 
terials purchased are all audited at Omaha, and a draft is made on the 
treasurer at Boston in favor of the party from whom the purchase is 
made, countersigned by the auditor. 

Q. The cross-ties are a part of the expense account % — A. Yes, sir ; all 
supplies. 

Q. They are supplied as needed, along the line, from time to time f — 
A. Yes. 

Q. And I understand you to say that the iron is not ? — A. All iron 
supplied is supplied in the same way. 

Q. But there is no general iron account providing for the renewal of 
the rail \ — A. No, sir. 

Q. So that 1 understand you to admit that that would be a fair de- 
duction from the next returns \ — A. If, for instance, the life of a rail is 
ten years, and we do not replace in a given year to the extent of 10 per 
cent, of the iron, the difference between what we do supply and that 10 
per cent, would be a fair deduction from the net receipts. 

Q. And you have not made that deduction in the exhibit which you 



218 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

have made ? — A. No ; I have not made an estimate. I do not know 
whether we have supplied 10 per cent, or not. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. Have you had any special attorneys outside of those whom you 
have denominated as the regular attorneys of the company?— A. Yes; 
we have employed various attorneys at various- times. 

Q. Have you ever employed any person who was, at the time of his 
employment, a member of Congress or a Senator of the United States? — 
A. I should have no means of knowing except by looking at the books 
and seeing to whom money was paid. 

Q. If you have paid money on account of attorneys' fees, will the 
books of the company show it? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you the books here that will show such a showing ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Turn to them and see. — A. (After referring to the ledger.) I find 
a payment on the 2d of December, 1869, to Benjamin F. Butler of $3,000, 
and on March 4, 1871, a payment to J. A. Jenckes of $4,500. I think 
Mr. Jenckes left Congress that same day. 

Q. Did you find any others ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. For what service was that $3,000 paid to General Butler? — A. I 
do not know, only as I gather from the records and from information 
that I have received from the directors. I learned that he was em- 
ployed as counsel in New York ; I think about the time that the con- 
troversy was commenced in the board of directors. 

Q. You mean at the time that there was a controversy between the 
two different boards of directors ? — A. Yes. 

Q. A controversey as to the control of the road ? — A. Yes, that was 
what I understood. 

Q. What service did Mr. Jenckes render for the company ? — A. That 
I do not know. 

Q. State your best information on the subject. — A. From my best 
information I should say that it was for services rendered in connection 
with the Durant and Hazard suit in the State of Bhode Island. I un- 
derstood that he was employed in that case. 

Q. That was a controversy in the courts of that State ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do vou know of any member of Congress or Senator having been 
employed as counselor for the Union Pacific Bailroad Company ? — A. 
No, I do not. 

Q. Do you know of any other sums of money having been paid to 
persons who were members or Senators ? — A. I do not know of any 
Senator or member of Congress who received one dollar except the par- 
ties whom I have named. 

Q. Do you know of any bonds or stock having been transferred to any 
member or Senator ? — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Sloctjm : 

Q. Do you know of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company ever having 
paid anything to the Government directors? — A. No, sir; except their 
legal expenses. 

Q. Has not the company ever paid any regular salary to any of these 
directors? — A. Not to my knowledge, not since I have been connected 
with the company. The Government directors are paid a per diem and 
traveling expenses, and at each meeting of the board they make out 
their bills and are paid by the company. 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 219 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you know of auy money having been paid to any officer of the 
Government for the purpose of securing the acceptance of any portion 
of this road by the Government? — A. I do not. 

Q. Have you any information of any moneys having been paid on that 
account f— -A. No, sir • only the information that I got from the news- 
papers. 

By Mr. SwANN : 

Q. Had Mr. Brooks any connection with that firm of lawyers you have 
spoken of? — A. Not that I am aware of. I do not believe that Mr. 
Brooks is a lawyer. 

Q. Do you know of any moneys having been paid to him ? — A. I do 
not. 

Q. With the exception of the gentlemen that you have named, there 
was nobody else connected with the permanent law corps of the com- 
pany ? — A. No ; no other occurs to me. 

The Chairman directed the witness to furnish to the committee the 
documents and information required in the following statement: 

1. Annual list of stockholders on which elections are held. 

2. An accurate statement of cost of road to Union Pacific Bailroad 
Company. 

3. An accurate statement of the amount paid under each contract. 

4. An accurate statement of the amount expended west of the one 
hundredth meridian up to the date of the assignment of the Oakes 
Ames contract, October 17, 1867. 

5. Cost of 138 miles west of the one hundredth meridian as accepted 
by the Government. 

6. ATI the estimates of engineers as to cost of construction. 

7. Also a full and detailed statement of the present indebtedness of 
the Union Pacific Bailroad Company, including income-bonds, land- 
grant, Government, and first-mortgage bonds, stock, and floating in- 
debtedness. 

8. Also the full amount realized from sales of Government bonds, and 
dates of sales thereof. 

9. Also the full amount realized from sales of first-mortgage bonds, 
and dates of sales thereof. 

10. Full amount of assets of the company, exclusive of road, rolling- 
stock, &c, used in operating, &c. 

11. The original issue of stock, date, and persons to whom issued, &c. 
The witness, under the permission given by the committee, revised 

his testimony, and proposed to alter it in the following particulars : 

To the question, " Have you cash enough in the treasury to meet all 
the interest not paid at maturity?' 7 he proposed to make the answer 
read : " No, sir;' but current receipts for business will* pay it." 

To the question, " You do not understand that the directors are under 
any legal obligation to extend to the company that assistance ?" he pro- 
posed to make the answer read : " No, sir ; I do not think that they are 
legally bound to make themselves personally liable for the debts of the 
corporation." 

To the question, " If that obligation should be withheld, either by 
the death of those directors or by any change of purpose, then you think 
the company would fail and become insolvent, do you?" he proposed to 
make the answer read : " I do not. I think the road can now earn 
money enough to pay its running expenses and the interest on its funded 
debt. Its earnings have largely increased, and I believe that the 



220 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

receipts for the current year will amount to, say, $10,000,000, which will, 
if there is no hostile action on the part of the Government, firmly es- 
tablish its credit, and enable it to pay the interest on its funded debt, 
and reduce materially its floating liabilities, so that hereafter it can go 
forward without difficulty." 

To the question as to whether the road was in such a condition that the 
withholding of the earnings for Government transportation would cause 
it to become bankrupt, he proposed to make the answer read : " I do not 
know whether the money could be borrowed on the credit of the com- 
pany. It might be very difficult and very expensive. But I should 
hardly like to swear that the company would become bankrupt under 
any circumstances." Also, to strike out the rest of the answer to that 
question ; also, to strike out the question and answer immediately suc- 
ceeding. 

To the question, " In round numbers how much has the floating debt 
increased since the 10th of December, 1872?" he proposed to make the 
answer read : " About half a million, to pay coupons on first-mortgage 
"bonds maturing January 1st. The floating debt of the company had 
been reduced half a million from current earnings just prior to the date 
of the statement, so that during two months the debt was not increased, 
while a considerable saving of interest was effected." 



Washington, D. C, January 22, 1873. 

William B. Shaw sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman: 

Question. Where do you reside ? — Auswer. In Washington City. 

Q. How long have you been residing here? — A. Twenty- two years. 

Q. What is your occupation f — A. Newspaper correspondent. 

Q. How long have you been engaged in that business? — A. Ever 
since I came to Washington. 

Q. You were here during the spring of 1871, when the legislation was 
pending with reference to the Union Pacific Bailroad Company ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you recollect the circumstance of the Secretary of the Treas- 
ury having taken some steps looking to the withholding from the Union 
Pacific Bailroad Company certain moneys on account of transportation? 
— A. Yes ; I was aware of that fact before anybody else. 

Q. How did you ascertain that fact ? — A. From the Secretary himself. 
I went up to see Secretary Boutwell, and while in there, I saw lying on 
his table a statement of the public debt, and I saw a statement particu- 
larly in reference, to the Pacific Bailroads, showing an indebtedness of 
between six and seven millions of dollars. He was looking particularly 
at it, and I inferred from that that he had his mind made up about that 
interest question ; and inasmuch as I was interested in it, I asked him 
what he was going to do about it. Said he, " What do you Avant to 
know for?" " Mr. Secretary," said I, " I am going to be frank with you. 
I have some of the bonds aud stock, and if you are going to take 
any steps to collect this interest from the roads, I would like to know 
it, so that I can unload and get out." He laughed, and said, " Well, 
you are very frank about it." " That is my only idea." I said, u I do 
not want to publish it." Said he, " I do not know what I might do." 
Said I, "Do you claim that you have the right under existing law to 



CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 221 

collect this accrued interest from the roads, and compel them to pay 
it?" Said lie, u I think there is* sufficient law already existing." Said 
I " I do not think you have." Well, said he, •' I have written to the 
several railroad companies, notifying them of the fact of this accrued 
interest that they owe, and only in one instance have I received a reply, 
and I am inclined to let them understand that' I am going to take 
hold of this matter and do something." I went out and talked to one 
of my friends about it. Said I, " Boutwell means mischief in regard to 
this matter; I think we had better get out." Said he, " He cannot do it, 
he dares not do it; he has no right to do it." Said I, ''Suppose he does 
do it V' " Well," said he, " he would not dare to do it." Said I, "That 
has nothing to do with it • but suppose he does it, what then V 7 Said he 
" It would be very disastrous." I waited a couple of days, and then I 
went up to the Treasury again, feeling great interest in the question, 
and I discovered that Mr. Boutwell had issued an order to the warrant 
officer not to pay any more of this 50 per cent, accrued interest to the 
road. I sat down and telegraphed that to my papers at Boston and 
New York. The next day or two after that the stock began to tumble. 
I went up to see the Secretary again, and he told me that he had re- 
ferred the subject to the Attorney-General, and that until he had a de- 
cision he would pay no more of their warrants. I followed the thing all 
along, keeping watch of it all through and trying to ascertain what the 
Attorney-General was going to do. Finally, the Attorney-General ren- 
dered his decision confirming the construction of the Secretary of the 
Treasury. Then the question came up in Congress. 

Q. In the mean time had you unloaded ?— A. I had. 

Q. Had you unloaded before you telegraphed to your Boston paper"? — 
A. I think I had. I always do these things before 1 let anybody else 
know. 

Q. Hor far did it tumble! What was it worth when you unloaded ? — 
A. I think it was worth about from 36 to 38 ; I am not positive about 
it. It went down to nine. You could not sell the income-bonds at any 
price. They were quoted in Boston, where they were most held, at 
29, 39, 35, 40, and such figures. They were oscillating in that way. 

Q. What kind of securities was it that you were loaded with?— A. It 
was the stock I had. 

Q. It was the stock that went down to nine? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then the question came up in Congress % — A. Then the question 
came up' in Congress. I had bought some of the stock under the impres- 
sion that Congress would not confirm the action of the Secretary of the 
Treasury, which I regarded as being in direct violation of the agreement 
between the railroad companies and the Government. 

Q. What induced you to come to the conclusion that Congress would 
not confirm the action of the Secretary of the Treasury '? — A. I had seen 
several lawyers and talked with them on the subject, and I think I had 
also talked with a good many Senators and members of Congress about 
it, on general principles as to what they thought of Boutwell's decision j 
and they generally thought that he was not warranted entirely in doing- 
it. I followed it up very closely, and went to the Judiciary Committee 
of both Houses, and inquired wherever I found anybody who knew any- 
thing about it. The question was also before the Committee on Appro- 
priations. 

Q. After your many interviews with members of Congress, you came 
to the conclusion that Congress was going to disagree with the Secre- 
tary of the Treasury % — A. At first I did not think it would, because 
there was an impression prevalent that these companies had made a 



222 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

large amount of money, and that Congress was not going to help them 
out of the scrape, but that they must take care of themselves. I after- 
ward changed my mind. 

Q. What induced you to change your mind? — A. From the general 
impression that the Secretary's opinion was wrong, and that Mr. Acker- 
man was a mere tool,' and did not know anything about law. They re- 
garded him as a rebel, who was acting against the interests of the people 
of Massachusetts who held this stock. 

Q. Did these interviews that you had with members of Congress influ- 
ence you in coming to the conclusion that Congress was going to disa- 
gree with the Secretary? — A. I was looking about for news, and I had 
two purposes to serve in getting all the news that I could. I told mem- 
bers whom I spoke to that I wanted to know it as a matter of news, but 
I really wanted to know because I had an interest in it. I had loaded 
up again when the stock was down. 

Q. Had you loaded up before you had pretty strong assurance that 
this legislation of 1871 was to be carried ? — A. No, I did not. That was 
my judgment. 

Q. You satisfied yourself, in other words, that that legislation would 
be enacted? — A. I did not know what Congress would do, but I thought 
it would relieve the company, as the enterprise had ruined all those 
gentlemen who were in it, and I thought that Congress would probably 
step in and relieve them. 

Q. Did you make any arrangement looking to the prevention of send- 
ing out from this city information to the. different newspapers of the 
country as to what was likely to be done in Congress with reference to 
that legislation ? — A. No, sir; not a particle. I gave my information, 
after I had used it, to anybody who wanted it. 

Q. Did you pay any money to any newspaper correspondent, or any 
person connected with any newspaper, for the purpose of inducing him 
not to send out news in relation to what was transpiring here in regard 
to that legislation? — A. No; not particularly for that. 

Q. What was it for? — A. I had an interest in this thing, and I did 
not want any adverse criticism. A gentleman came to me and wanted 
me to loan him some money. He told me that he was hard up. I think 
he said that he owed Senator Pomeroy some money. He asked me if I 
would not loan him some, and he kept at me till I finally gave him a 
couple of hundred dollars. 

Q. For what purpose ? — A. To aid me in my purpose. I told him that 
if I made what I expected to make, a nice profit on this thing, I would 
be willing to pay him. 

Q. How was he going to aid you ? — A. I asked him what he thought 
of this legislation. He said he did not know ; and we talked about it 
a good deal. I do not recollect exactly what occurred between us. Said 
I, "Have you any convictions about it." He said he bad not. I said, 
"If you have not got any convictions about it, and if I make anything 
out of this operation, 1 do not object to giving you something out of it. 
If you can help me in any way in creating an impression in the papers 
and keeping the stock up, I would not object to giving you a little divi- 
dend out of mine." 

Q. Did you pay him some money ? — A. I gave him two hundred 
dollars. 

Q. Was it not for the purpose of preventing him sending out news as 
to what was likely to transpire in regard to this matter ? — A. 1 do not 
think so. He w T as rather disposed to help me.' 

Q. For a consideration ? — A. He was insisting on my going on his pa- 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 223 

per, and asked me repeatedly; and I did not like to, because I knew lie 
was rather impecunious. He asked me repeatedly, and I could hardly 
get out of it. 

Q. Who was it?— A. Mr. E. J. Hinton. I have known him for many 
years. He is a very clever fellow, but is generally hard-up. 

Q. Did you pay money to anybody else *? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any being paid to anybody else % — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you heard of any being paid to anybody else % — A. No, sir. I 
should not have paid him if he had not pressed me to borrow the 
money. 

Q. Was there not an understanding among certain persons about the 
city that that legislation was to be had, and that that was a good time 
to buy the stock ; that it was down low, and that as soon as legislation 
was had it would immediately rise in the stock market, and that there 
might be a handsome speculation made ! — A. There was no understand- 
ing. We talked about the thing, and everybody who bad spare money 
was anxious to make something in stock speculation. 

Q. The matter was talked about that it might be a good speculation ? 
— A. The general impression was that it was a dangerous thing to med- 
dle with. 

Q. Why ? — A. On account of the uncertainty of tlie tiling. 

Q. It was considered a certainty if they had the legislation ? The 
stock would go up, and be considered a good speculation? — A. Of 
course ; that was a dead sure thing. 

Q. Those who were talking about this thing were anxious to get this 
legislation? — A. Of course. 

Q. And those who were talking about it, were they engaged in buy- 
ing up the stock ? — A. I cannot tell you. 

Q. Do you know of any member of Congress buying stock at that 
time? — A. No, sir; not of my own knowledge. I beard that members 
were buying. I do not know who they were. 

Q. Did you advise any member of Congress to buy about that time % 
— A. No, sir, 1 suppose they kept their own counsel, and I know that 
I kept mine. 

Q. To what extent had you loaded at that time ? — A. I was carrying a 
few hundred shares. I am always more or less dabbling in stocks. 

Q. Do you recollect what you paid for what you purchased at that 
time ? — A. I think it was something between 18 and 19. It had rallied a 
little. It had rallied a little after the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
had made an arrangement with the Pennsylvania Central to take care of 
the floating indebtedness of the company ; and when I saw that Edgar 
Thomson, of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, had lent his credit 
to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, I made up my mind that the 
thing was coming out all right. I went on my judgment more than any- 
thing else after that; but I made myself very busy in finding out all 
the points, which I used for my papers after I had used them for myself. 

Q. You got the first benefit of the information? — A. I had at that 
time an arrangement with houses in New York to furnish them with in- 
formation touching financial matters, especially in regard to this and in 
regard to other matters, which information was communicated to the 
brokers in New York. 

Q. What did the Union Pacific Eailroad stock go up to after that 
legislation? — A. It went down. I made up my mind that the thing had 
been discounted already, and on the evening of the day when the bill 
passed I sent my order to sell immediately as soon as it was known on 
the street that the bill had passed. I discovered that others who had 



224 CREDIT MOBIL fER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

doubted that Congress would pass the bill were buying the stock while 
I was selling. They all of thein got badly taken in. They were lame 
ducks. 

Q. From whom did you acquire the original lot that you had? — A. I 
had purchased it. I was carrying it on speculation. 

Q. From whom did you purchase it? — A. From one of the brokers in 
~New York 5 Mr. Clews, I think; There were three* or four men buying 
stock for me. I do not recollect from whom I bought it. 

Q. Did you get any of it from any of those managers of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. So, sir. 

Q. Did you get any of it that you did not get by purchase % — A. There 
may have been some carried for me. For instance, I furnish informa- 
tion to a gentleman, and he says, " If you give me this information, I 
will carry for you one, two, three, four, or five hundred shares and pay 
you whatever it appreciates from the time I buy. 7 ' I may have had, "and 
probably had some stock of that kind at that time. 

Q. Who was carrying stock: for you at that time ? — A. Several brokers. 

Q. Give us their names. — A. I am not going to disclose to the com- 
mittee my private transactions in Hew York. They do not relate to 
Congress. 

The Chairman. That is for the committee to determine. 

The Witness. There is nothing in them relating to Congress in the 
slightest degree. 1 do not choose to have my private transactions and 
operations in Hew York inquired into, and therefore I decline to answer 
the question. I will say to the committee that nobody connected with 
Congress in any shape or form had anything to do with my transactions, 
directly or indirectly. 

The Chairman. But we have something to do with others besides 
members of Congress. I will vary the form of the question a little and 
ask you to state whether any person who was connected with the 
management of the Union Pacific Railroad Company was carrying any 
of the stock for you? — A. Ho, I think not. 

Q. Was Mr. Durant carrying any for you?— A. Ho. 

Q. Was Mr. Bushnell ?— A. Ho. 

Q. Was Sidney Dillon ?— A. Ho. 

Q. Oakes Ames ? — A. Ho, sir. 

Q. Was Oliver Ames % — A. Ho, sir. Hot one of these men had I any 
transaction with. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. What is there in the transaction of carrying stock for you a short 
time by a Hew r York broker that makes you unwilling to disclose his 
name? — A. I do not think it is part of the business of this committee 
to inquire into my private transactions. 

Q. But what is there in the fact that you should be unwilling to dis- 
close? — A. I would rather people should not know what I am doing. 
That is all. I cannot discover why I should disclose my private busi- 
ness when it has no relation to anything that this committee is author- 
ized to inquire into. 

Mr. Hoar. I want to know what there is in it that makes you un- 
willing to disclose it. 

The Witness. I do not want to disclose any of my private matters. 
I prefer not to let other people know what my private business is. 

Mr. Hoar. You have stated what your business is, and the question 
is as to the names of the brokers. 

The Witness. I have stated that Mr. Clews has done a great deal of 
business for me. 



CREDIT M0BILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 225 

The Chairman. You stated that persons had been carrying this 
stock for you. What objection have you to stating the names of the 
persons ? 

The Witness. I have given you the name of Mr. Clews. If I had 
all the documents and papers I might inform the committee, but I have 
had transactions with a great many people in New York at various 
times. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. You spoke of having some persons, who, at the time of .your inter- 
view with the Secretary of the Treasury, were carrying shares of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company. Do you recollect the names of those 
persons or any of them ? — A. Not at that time. 1 said I had some of 
that stock. I told the Secretary I had some of that stock. 

Q, Tbe question is of whom you bought it! — A. I bought it on 
speculation. 

Q. From whom % — A. I think I bought it of Mr. Clews. I do not see 
why the committee wants to drag in my private transactions here, that 
have not the slightest concern with the subject; It. is not because I 
am afraid to communicate any information to tbe committee. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. From whom did you acquire the second lot ! — A. I bought it in 
the market. I think Mr. Clews carried some for me. 

Q. To whom did you make payment for it % — A. I did not make any 
payment. You put up a margin, or they carry it for you on account 
of the information you furnish, just as you can make arrangement with 
your broker. 

Q. Did you put up a margin or did you furnish information % — A. I 
had a margin there, I tfiink. I think I had a margin on some specula- 
tion that I had made. I think I have one now with Mr. Clews. , 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Did you acquire any of the stock which you held at the date 
of your conversation with Secretary Boutwell, or any of the stock which 
you afterward purchased, from any person then in Washington, or 
through a bargain or transaction w T ith any person in Washington at the 
time of your acquiring it? — A. Not a dollar's .worth. 

Q. Was it all acquired in the New York stock-market, in the regular 
course of such business ? — A. Yes. I never had a dollar's worth of 
stock at that time that was not bought on speculation. 

Q. Bought in the New York market ? — A. I never had a dollar's worth 
of this stock from Mr. Ames or any other parties. 

Q. You never had a dollar from anybody who you understood was 
connected with the Union Pacific Railroad Company or the Credit Mobil - 
ier ? — A. No, sir ; not a dollar. I never had any connection with the 
Credit Mobilier or the Union Pacific Eailroad Company or with that 
concern. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. Do you hold any of that stock now? — A. No, sir; I do not. I did 
have some a little while ago that I had bought at 34 and sold at 36J or 
,37. I made a nice little turn on it. 

Q. I should like to know how much of that stock you held at the time 

this legislation was pending on account of information or news that you 

furnished ! — A. I cannot tell you. The thing has passed out of my 

mind. When an account is sent to me of a transaction, and I make my 

15 c M 



226 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

percentage on it, I always tear up the memorandum and throw it away. 
I do not keep records of these things. 

Q. Do you studiously avoid keeping any record of these transac- 
tions ? — A. When I am going away for the summer, after Congress ad- 
journs, I go through my papers and any that are important I keep, and 
any that are not important I tear up. 

Q. When you reloaded how much did you get on account of informa- 
tion furnished % — A. I cannot tell that. 

Q. You say that sometimes persons carried stocks for you on account 
of money and sometimes on account of information that you furnished. 
Now, when you reloaded how much did you have on account of infor- 
mation ? — A. I do not know. 1 had three or four hundred shares. 

Q. How much did you realize on the stock which you got for infor- 
mation that you furnished !— A. I think the profit was from 9 to 1.0 per 
cent. 

Q. And what did it amount to in all % — A. I cannot recollect. There 
were several transactions in my account, and I may have had some 
losses. I bought some ■ Rock Island stock and lost on it. When my 
broker makes out my account there is so much lost and so much gained, 
and he pays me the difference. I had two hundred or three hundred 
shares of Sock Island stock. . I always look to see that I make some- 
thing on the whole transaction. 

Q. Did I understand you to say that in one case you made an attempt 
to withhold from the public information of that which was transpiring 
in connection with this legislation 1 — A. On the contrary, I did every- 
thing that I could to send it as fast as the wires would take it, for I was 
sending information to Mr. Abbott, in New York ; and one or two other 
parties were also sending information. He charged- me particularly to 
give him the earliest information in regard to that matter. 

Q. That was private information ! — A. He published it instantly as 
quick as he got it. He threw, it out to fifty or sixty brokers in Wall 
street. 

Q. I am speaking about giving it to the general public. Was not that 
information which you were sending out information to be used by pri- 
vate individuals, for the purpose of handling these stocks'? — A. I did 
not know what they wanted it for. All that I did was to send it to 
them. - 

Q, Was there not an agreement that you were to furnish information? 
— A. I was to furnish information .at so much a week, or so much a 
month, with some, and with others I was to furnish information, and, 
if it proved successful, they were to give me a dividend. 

Q. Did you send this same information to the newspapers ? — A. Yes. 

Q. At the same time f — A. I guess there was not twenty minutes dif- 
ference. After I got the information and shoved it. off, 1 went right up 
stairs and sent it to my afternoon papers. 

Q. But these parties did get it in advanc'e of the newspapers ? — A. 
Of course. That was my agreement — that I should send them everything 
I had in regard to these matters, and in regard to the finances, rail- 
roads, &c, that took place in the Committee of Ways and Means or the 
Committee on Appropriations. 

Q. To enable them to use this information for their private benefit 
and for your private benefit % — A. Yes ; it was mutual. My paper, pub- 
lishes editions at 1 o'clock, 3 o'clock, and 4 o^clock. 

Q. What paper is that ?-— A. The Boston Transcript ; and I had a 
paper in New York, the Commercial. I was also sending to the Chicago 
Journal, and to Cleveland, and I think about that time to Cincinnati. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 227 

Of course, these papers published ray dispatches whenever they pleased. 
If the dispatch was important they would sometimes keep it out of the 
early edition, because if they published it in the early editions the 
papers that did not get specials would steal it and use it. 

Q. But the broker was always a little ahead % — A. Always a little 
ahead. 



Washington, D. C, January 22, 1873. 

James F. Wilson sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where is your residence ? — Answer. Fairfield, Iowa. 

Q. Have you been connected with the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany in any capacity, and, if so, in what and for what length of time? — 
A. I have been connected with the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
since some time in 1869. I was in the first instance appointed as one of 
the commissioners to examine the last accepted sections of the road in 
connection with General Warren and Mr. Isaac N. Morris, of Illinois. 
Subsequently I was appointed by the President one of the Government 
directors of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, and have been re-ap- 
pointed, I think, three times. The appointments are made annually. 

Q. When were you first appointed % — A. On the 14th of July, 1809, 
then on the 8th of March, 1870, next on 6th March, 1871, and lastly on 
11th of March, 1872. 

Q. Are you still a Government director 1 ? — A. I am. 

Q. Were you in the city of Washington at the time the legislation of 
1871 was pending, which grew out of the controversy between the Sec- 
retary of the Treasury and the railroad companies, in regard to paying 
them for Government transportation % — A. I do not recollect being here 
at that time. I believe I must have been in the city some time during 
that session, but I am quite certain that I was not during the pendency 
of that legislation. I have been here more or less every year since 
1861, and possibly I may have been in the city at that session. 

Q. Do you recollect being in the city of Boston soon after the passage 
of that law in 1871 ? — A. Yes, I must have been there soon after that, 
because there was a meeting of the board of directors soon afterward, 
and I think that I have attended all of the meetings of the board. 

Q. Look at this record (in the testimony of E. EL Rollins) and state 
whether you are the James F. Wilson who was appointed on that 
special committee ? — A. I am the James F. Wilson who is named in 
that record. 

Q. You were then a member of a special committee for the examina- 
tion of the matter in reference to special legal expenses ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you meet with that- committee? — A. I did not; I declined to 
act with them. I will state the reason why a Government director was 
appointed on the committee. There is a rule which requires that a 
Government director shall be appointed on each committee ; therefore 
the board could not make that committee without appointing a Govern- 
ment director on it. I mean, that it could not be properly constituted 
without a Government director. 

Q. It was necessary to have a director on this committee ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Why did not you serve on that committee % — A. I will tell you 
very frankly why. I had heard a good deal said as to there having 
been great efforts made here to pass the law in question, and I came to 



228 CREDIT M03ILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

the conclusion that if there was anything of that kind, involving any 
person, I did not want to know who it was. 

Q. Then it was currently rumored that there had been improper in- 
fluences or appliances used for the purpose of accomplishing that legis- 
lation 1 — A. I think I saw that in the papers during the pendency of the 
legislation. I was at home at the time. 

Q. When you were appointed on this committee you were cognizant 
of the fact that the matter which you were to examine, as a member of 
that committee, had reference to what had transpired at Washing- 
ton ? — A. I cannot say that I was cognizant of the fact. This was for 
special legal expenses. 

Q. Were you suspicious that it had reference to it ? — A. I was sus- 
picious that if anything of that kind had been done it was involved in 
this account, and I did not want to know anything about it. I there- 
fore declined to act on the committee. 

Q. State whether, although your name appeared as a member of that 
committee, the fact was that the Government had no member of that 
committee to examine that account J — A. Yes, sir $ that is true. 

Q. Bo yon know, either from personal knowledge or from information, 
what was examined by that committee % — A. No, sir I do not. 

Q. Did you ever see the report that was made by that committee f — 
A. I cannot recollect whether I did or not. 

Q. Look at this report, (in the testimony of E. H. Rollins,) and say 
whether you ever saw it before % — A. I do not think I ever saw it before ; 
I recognize the signature to the paper. 

Q. Whose signature is it $ — A. General Dodge's. 

Q. He was then the chief engineer of that company, was he? — A. No; 
my impression is that he was not the chief engineer at that time, but was 
a director. I think that the action accepting his resignation as chief 
engineer of the company had been had before that time ; although I am 
not positive about the date. 

Q. You being a Government director at that time, what reason was 
there why you should not appear and act with that committee in the 
investigation of that account % — A. The only reason was this, that, as I 
have said, I had noticed the reports to which I have referred, and dur- 
ing my services in Congress for eight years had often heard of charges 
or read of charges in the press affecting the reputation of gentlemen 
connected with public life, and I did not want to have any knowledge 
whatever about any transactions of the kind having been had, if any 
had been had. For that reason I declined to act on the committee. 

Q. If any improper appliances or means had been resorted to, to affect 
the interests of the Government, was it not important that the Govern- 
ment should know that fact % — A. That is probably true ; and the only 
reason that I give for it is the one I have stated, that if anything of a 
suspicious character had transpired, I did not wish to know anything 
about it. 

Q. W^ere you apprehensive that you might find out something of that 
sort in the event of your acting with that committee % — A. I was ap- 
prehensive that if anything of that kind was involved in the account, I 
would find it out if I acted with the committee. 

Q. Have you any information as to what this $126,000 was paid for ? — 
A. I have not. I will state here, in justice to General Dodge, who, I 
think, was in this city when the legislation was had, that he always in- 
sisted to me that there had been no money used improperly. 

Q. General Dodge is in Texas now, I believe % — A. I believe his head- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 229 

quarters are in Marshall, Texas. He is now, I understand, chief engineer 
of the Texas Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. Was he a member of Congress at that time ? — A. No ; he went out 
of Congress on the 4th of March, I860. 

Q. You were not a member at that time? — A. No, sir; I went out 
also on the 4th of March, 18G9. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. I understand you to say that you had some misgivings about the 
matter ? — A. Yes; from public rumors. 

Q. And from newspaper' comments upon the transaction ? — A, Yes, 
sir. 

Q. You thought it was rather outside of their functions^ as directors 
to vote a large amount of money of this sort without guarding it in a 
way which they do not appear to have done ? — A. Undoubtedly that 
consideration was in my mind; I could not, at the time, see, and I do 
not now see, the necessity for appointing a committee to audit an ac- 
count when they had officers whose duty and regular business it is to 
audit accounts. It was not a usual mode of doing business. 

Q. No similar action had ever been taken before % — A. Not to my 
recollection. 

Q. And you do not kDow anything as to the disposition made of that 
money ? — A. I do not ; I cannot state, either from personal information 
or otherwise, whether a dollar of it was used improperly or not; I do 
not know where it was used, nor for what purpose. 

Q. All that you know on the subject is that Mr. Dodge told you that 
none had been used improperly ? — A. Yes, sir ; I had seen these reports 
and I made up my mind that if thare was anything of the kind that 
affected any person, I did not wish to know it. 

Q. In other words, you shrank from the transaction ?-r-A. Yes, sir; 
I did. 

Q. Yon had never heard anything said in the discussions of the board 
as to what disposition had been made of that money, or anything con- 
nected with it 1 — A. No, sir ;. after this committee was appointed it went 
into a room, just across the hall from the room in which the directors 
held their meeting; I went into the room with them; so far, it may be 
said I met with the committee ; I went into the room and said to them, 
*' Gentlemen, I do not want to know anything about this ; I have seen 
these rumors, and if there is anything wrong involved in it, I do not 
want to know it, and I decline to act." 

Q. And you had no discussion in the room as to the plans or purposes 
of the committee ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Or as to the object to which this money was to be applied? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. In other words, it did not impress you favorably, and you deter- 
mined to have nothing to do with it? — A." Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You were present when the committee was appointed I — A. Yes, 
sir, I was ; and I wish to say that if any of that money was used im- 
properly, in any way, I am very glad that I do not know it. 

Q. You thought you could not have sanctioned such proceedings "1 — 
A. I certainly never should have sanctioned the use of any money 
improperly. 

Q. You would not have sanctioned the voting of so large a sum of 
money to be put in the hands of these gentlemen without some check ? — 
A. No, sir. This was some six days*after the legislation was had in 



230 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Congress. I was not here. I went directly from iny home, in Iowa, to 
Boston. I do not think that I was in this city at any time while that 
legislation was pending. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Yon understood that that mode of dealing with this account was 
for the purpose of concealing the transaction % — A. STo, sir ; I did not 
understand that. 

Q. I understood you to say that you did not see why the auditing 
officer of the company should not deal with it, instead of having this 
special committee ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you not understand that it was in order that the ordinary 
auditing officer of the company might not deal with it, that this mode 
was adopted ? — A. That was one of the reasons that impressed more 
forcibly on my mind the impression which had been made before, that 
there might probably have been something wrong. 

Q. Then you did not believe the assurance given to you that no im- 
proper use had been made of the money? — A. This statement was 
not made to me when the resolution was passed, or when I went into 
the room with the committee. It was told to me afterward in talking 
on the subject. I was assured that no money had been improperly 
used. 

Q. But still you felt so much doubt about the correctness of that 
assurance as to be very unwilling to know the truth 1 — A. Yes, that is 
true, with this qualification, that while I believed the statements made, 
still, if they were not complete as to the whole transaction, I might be 
j)laced in a false position as a Government director by any subsequent 
disclosures, and my conduct was therefore self-defensive. 

Q. Was that, in your judgment, a compliance with your duty to the 
Government as a Government director? — A. That is a somewhat deli- 
cate question, and the whole case seemed to involve delicate ones, 
judged by the rumors I have mentioned. I did what I believed right 
under the circumstances, as it was not my duty to audit accounts. 

Q. I am aware of that, and I should be very sorry to put a question 
that would go further in that direction than was proper ; at the same 
time I think that this committee must know how far, in the history of 
this transaction, the Government directors considered themselves as 
representing the Government in the management of the road. Did you 
understand that you had any duty to the Government ? — A. Undoubt- 
edly. 

Q. Did you not understand that your duty to the Government re- 
quired you to be there for the purpose of knowing in reference to just 
such transactions, and of preventing them 1 — A. I should undoubtedly 
have endeavored to prevent the improper use of any money, or improper 
influence of any character on men occupying public or other positions. 

Q. Having called that point to your attention by the question, I do 
not wish to have you make any further answer to it than you yourself 
think fit. — A. I wish to be understood fully in regard to that. I do not 
want to shrink from answering any question that the committee desires 
to ask. 

Q. I thought that this statement having been made by you, some ex- 
planatory statement of your duty might occur to you, which you would 
like to have added to it. — A. What might have occurred to my mind in 
relation to my special duty, as Government director at that time, I am 
not prepared to say. The consideration that weighed on my mind was 
the one which I have stated. If I have not stated it explicitly enough, 



CREDIT M0BIL1ER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 231 

I wish to state that I know nothing whatever of the nse that was made 
of this money, or whether it was used to employ counsel ordinary or 
otherwise. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Have you at any time had any interest in the Credit Mobilier of 
America? — A. Yes, sir; I had, as I stated to the committee of which 
•Mr. Poland is chairman. 

Q. What interest did you have in that corporation ? — A. An interest 
Of ten shares of the stock. 

Q. Were you at any time an officer of that corporation ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. When did you acquire that ten shares 1 — A. My recollection is, as 
I stated in my testimony before the other committee, that it was in or 
about the month of May, 1868. 

Q. Did you acquire that as an original subscription, or did you pur- 
chase it ? — A. I purchased it. 

Q. From whom ? — A. From Mr. Oakes Ames. 

Q. How long did you hold that stock? — A. I held it until some time 
in the winter of 1868-'69. I cannot recollect the date that I parted 
with it. 

Q. You got it in 1868, and disposed of it in the winter of 1868-'69!— 
A. Yes. 

Q. Have you held any interest in it since the winter of 1868-69 ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. In your capacity of Government director have you had occasion to 
examine the books of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, with a view 
to ascertaining the cost of construction under the different contracts 
that had been made for the construction of this f road ? — A. No, sir. 
When I became a Government director the construction of the road was 
completed; the construction had been all made; and, in fact, the tracks 
between the Union and the Central Pacific roads had been joined. I 
had given some attention, however, to the cost of the road in order to 
make up my judgment as to whether or not too much money had been 
expended in it. 

Q. Have you examined the books of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany with reference to that question f — A. Not critically. I have at 
times examined them and got statements. 

Q. Have you ever given any attention to the question as to what the 
Hoxie contract cost the Union Pacific Eailroad Company % — A. No, sir ; 
I have not, except in this: I had occasion once to investigate a ques- 
tion connected with the Hoxie contract, and in that I came to the con- 
clusion that the road had cost too much under that contract. 

Q. Ho you recollect the amount that you considered as the excess paid 
under the Hoxie contract ? — A. I do not recollect. 

Q. About what time was it that you made this investigation in refer- 
ence to the Hoxie contract ? — A. It was in the winter of 1870 or the 
spring of 1871. 

Q. Do you recollect seeing an item of $2,000,000 which had been 
added to the cost of construction under the Hoxie contract ? — A. I do 
not recollect. 

Q. Have you any recollection now of your attention having been at- 
tracted to an item of that kind !— A. No, sir ; I have not. 

Q. Has your attention ever been called to the fact that, on 4th August, 
1869, the Union Pacific Eailroad Company gave a note for $2,000,000, 
and then charged that up to the Hoxie contract ?— A. I do not think I 



232 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

ever knew that. It is possible that I did, but it has escaped my recol- 
lection now. 

Q. Were you present at a meeting of the board of directors or of the 
executive committee, or at any sort of convocation of the officers of that 
board, either as officers or in the capacity of a committee, when a note 
of $2,000,000 was given ?— A. I cannot recall it if I was. 

Q. Has your attention ever been called to the fact that, at the time 
the Oakes Ames contract was made, a large number of miles of the road 
west of the one hundredth meridian had been already completed and ac- 
cepted by the Government ? — A. I have heard that that was the case, yet I 
have never been able to ascertain what the real facts in regard to it were. 

Q. Has your attention been called to the fact that, in addition to the 
number of miles which had been already accepted by the Government, a 
large number of miles of track had been laid, which were not yet ac- 
cepted, but which were soon afterward accepted, by the Government ? — 
A. No, sir; my attention has not been called to it. 

Q. You have not therefore investigated into the question as to how 
much the construction, of which I have just spoken, had cost the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company at the time the Oakes Ames contract was 
let ?— A. No, sir. 

Q. And you know nothing on that subject? — A. No, sir. 

Q. And can give the committee no information in that behalf? — A. 
No, sir ; I cannot. Since the completion of the road, so far as the Gov- 
ernment directors have been concerned, it has been difficult for us to 
get information. We have directed our attention more to the practical 
affairs of the road, in trying to induce reforms that would bring up the 
revenues of the road, and in some respects we have succeeded. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. You were opposed to their whole line pf policy ? — A. Yes. Since 
I have been a member of the board I have been opposed to their line of 
policy, and have endeavored to secure a reform in that policy. I will 
mention in regard to one subject that is embraced in the last report of 
the Government directors ; I mean the coal contract. When I first dis- 
covered that, I made war upon it. In a meeting of the board of direct- 
ors 1 prepared myself, and offered a resolution and preamble, in which 
1 recited this contract in full, declaring in the resolution that it was 
void, because of its contravention of public policy, and directing the 
general superintendent of the road not to comply with it. 

Q. What was the result of that resolution % — A. The resolution was 
adopted, but by some means subsequently I found that the contract was 
being executed. 

Q. Your resolution was adopted ? — A. My resolution was adopted by 
the vote, I think, of every member of the board present. 

Q. And what was the result afterward? The result afterward was 
that the executive committee, by a resolution, revoked what the board 
of directors had clone and re-instated this contract? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is the power in that Union Pacific Railroad Company the board 
of directors or the executive committee ? — A. The executive committee 
seems to undo what the board does, if the executive committee does 
not like what has been done. 

Witness put in evidence the resolution referred to of 19th November, 
1869, referring to the Wyoming coal contract, -to be found on page 69 of 
the stockholders' and directors' record. 

It is as follows : 

" On the motion of Mr. J. F. Wilson, the following preamble and resolu- 
tion were adopted : 



CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 233 

" Whereas the following contract was entered into between Cyrus O. 
Godfrey and Thomas Wardell, and some person acting in behalf of this 
company : 

li This agreement,. made this sixteenth day of July, in the year of our 
Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-eight, between the Union 
Pacific Eailroad, by its proper officers, of the first part, and Cyrus O. 
Godfrey and Thomas Wardell, of the State of Missouri, or assigns, as 
party of the second part ; 

u Witnesseth : That the said party of the first part agrees that the 
party of the second part may prospect, at their own expense, for coal, on 
the whole line of the Union Pacific Eailroad, its extension and branches, 
and open and operate any mines discovered, at their own expense. 

" That said railroad company agrees to purchase of said party of 
the second part all clean, merchantable coal-mines along the line of 
its road needed for engines, depots, shops, and other purposes of the 
company, and to pay for the same, for the first two years, at the rate of 
six dollars per ton ; for the next three years, at five dollars per ton ; for 
the four years thereafter, at four dollars per ton ; and for the six years 
remaining, at the rate of three dollars per ton; delivered upon the cars 
at the mines of the said party of the second part, and which shall not 
be less than ten per [cent, added to the cost of the same, to the said 
party of the second part. This contract to be and remain in full force 
for the full term "of fifteen years from the date thereof. 

" That the said railroad company agrees to facilitate the operations of 
said party of the second part, in prospecting and otherwise, by means 
of such information as it may possess, and by furnishing free passage 
on its roads to the agents of the party of the second part, not exceeding 
six in number. 
. " That said railroad company farther agrees to put in switches and the 
necessary side-tracks, at such points as may be mutually agreed upon 
for the accommodation of the business of the said party of the second 
part. 

u The said party of the second part agrees to make all necessary 
exertions to increase the demand and consumption of coal by all outside 
parties along the line of said railroad, and to open and operate mines at 
such points where coal may be discovered, as may be desired by said 
railroad company, and to expend within the first five years from the 
date of this agreement, in the purchase and development of mines and 
mining lands, and in improvements for the opening, successful and eco- 
nomical working of the same, not less than the sum of twenty thousand 
dollars ; also to furnish, for the use of said railroad company, good mer- 
chantable coal, and to pay all expenses for improvement for loading coal 
into cars. Any improvements desired by said railroad company in re- 
gard to the coal to be used by it shall be at cost of said railroad com- 
pany. 

w In consideration of their exertions to increase the demand for coal, 
and the large sum to be expended in improvement, it is further agreed 
that the party of the second part shall have the right to transport over 
the said railroad and its branches, for the next fifteen years from the date 
of this agreement, coal for general consumption at the same freight 
that will be charged to others ; but the said party of the second part 
shall be entitled (in consideration of services rendered as herein provided) 
to a drawback of 25 per cent, on all sums charged for transportation of 
coal. 

" The said railroad company agrees to furnish the party of the second 
part such cars as they may require in the operation of their business, 



234 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

and to transport them as promptly as possible ; this agreement to re- 
main in force for fifteen years. 

" The coal lands owned by said party of the first part are hereby leased 
for the full term of fifteen years to the said party of the second part, or 
their assigns, for the purpose of working the same as may seem to them 
profitable \ said party of the second part to pay for the first three years 
a . royalty of twenty-five cents per ton for each ton of coal taken out 
from their land $ excepting always coal taken from entries, air-courses, 
or passage-ways, for which coal no royalty shall be paid ; payment for the 
same being due and payable monthly. The royalty for the last six years 
shall be free, provided the price of coal to the railroad company is re- 
duced to three dollars per ton. If three dollars and twenty-five cents 
per ton, or more, then, in that case, the royalty shall be as daring tbe 
first nine years. 

" In witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands and seals tjie day 
and year first above mentioned. 

"0. O. GODFREY. 
"THOMAS WARDELL. 

"And whereas said contract is in contravention of public policy and 
tends to retard the development of the country through which the road 
passes: Therefore, 

Resolved, That the general superintendent of the road be directed to 
disregard said contract in his department." 
By Mr. Swann : 

Q. By what authority did this executive committee assume the pow- 
ers and functions of the board of directors 1 — A. It is customary for 
the board of directors to delegate to the executive committee the pow- 
ers of the board in its absence. But I have never understood that when 
the board of directors takes action upon a given subject, the executive 
committee can legally reverse that action. 

Q. This executive committee assumed, where a resolution had been 
deliberately passed by the board of directors, to annul that resolution 
and act upon their own responsibility % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And there is no authority for that % — A. Not as I understand the 
law under which they are acting. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. If you have any information as to what was subsequently done 
in relation to that Wyoming coal contract, state what that information 
is. — A. I find on the record of the executive committee, on page 86, the 
following proceedings, under date of August 5, 1871 : 

" Upon motion of Mr. Bushnell the following preamble and resolution 
were adopted : 

" Whereas 90 per cent, of the stock of the Wyoming Coal Company is 
the property of this company : Therefore, 

"Resolved, That the general superintendent be requested to co-oper- 
ate freely with the superintendent of said coal company, in order that 
all possible returns may be secured from the disposal of coal and from 
freight, and that no coal be purchased by the company from any other 
parties for the use of the Union Pacific Railroad Company." 

Since that they have been pursuing the same policy with reference to 
the Wyoming Coal Company which they did before passing my resolu- 
tion. 

Q. Who were the parties to this Wyoming coal contract ? — A. It was 
executed by C. O. Godfrey and Thomas Ward ell, and I think by Oliver 
Ames as president of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. Mr. Ames's 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 235 

signature does not appear on my copy of the contract, but I ascertained 
that fact. 

Q. Were Godfrey and Wardell at any time connected with the Union 
Pacific Railroad ?— A. Not that I know of. 

Q. Were they connected with the Credit Mobilier ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. What was the ojection that you made to this contract f — A. The 
objections that I made to the contract are stated with some care in the 
report of the Government directors. 

Q. Have you had occasion to investigate the cost of the road under 
what is known as the Davis contract — that is, the contract west of the 
• Oakes Ames contract ? — A. That contract I have never seen. I always 
heard that contract spoken of as the contract of Davis and associates. 
The examination which I gave was as to what was the aggregate cost of 
the road, and determining in my own mind what it should have cost. 
That was the course of my examination, not involving matters of account 
in the books. 

Q. Did you ever make any of those investigations in the presence of 
the managers of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, or did you com- 
municate to them the results of your investigation % — A. I have talked 
on the subject frequently with members of the company ; I do not know 
that I can recall particularly whom, but I know I have talked the matter 
over with them often and at length. 

Q. Did you communicate the conclusion that you came to as to what 
the road has cost the company"? — A. I will not be positive whether I 
gave any particular sum, but I have talked generally, and given generally 
my idea as to what I thought it ought to have cost. 

Q. Did you make any estimate as to the cost of this road to the com- 
pany? — A. Yes; in the way that I have stated. 

Q. State as explicitly as you can the manner in which you made your 
calculations as to what the road had cost. — A. It was by a personal 
examination of the route, line, and character of the road, and from con- 
versations with the engineers and superintendent. I always got a great 
deal more specific information from the officers of the line of the road, 
or at the headquarters at Omaha, than I ever could get at the Boston 
office. 

Q. I am speaking with reference to what it did cost. — A. No ; I got 
no information on that point. 

Q. You never made any investigation as to what it did cost ? — A. No, 
I could not very well do that without having all the contracts and esti- 
mates, and I never had all of them. I did get a copy of two or three of 
them. 

Q. How did you make your calculation as to what the road should 
have cost ? — A. By an examination of the country through which the 
road passed, and the character of the road itself. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. What might have been saved by a proper construction of the 
road ? — A. A considerable sum. I will refresh my memory about that 
and furnish the result to the committee. 

Q. Your estimates were made from mere reconnaissance? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. It was the estimate of a practical man, not of a professional en- 
gineer i — A. # Yes, sir ; most of the business of this company is done by 
the executive committee. When the executive committee is appointed 
they organize and adjourn over from day to day, and in that way they 
keep the committee alive all the time. I have been a member of the ex- 



236 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

ecutive committee, but I live 1,200 miles away from the place of meet- 
ing, and of course I cannot run back and forth every day to attend these 
meetings, and therefore the information which I, with the other Gov- 
ernment directors, would get would be mainly at the quarterly meeting 
of the board of directors, when we would take up and read what the 
executive committee had done. 

Q. Did you ever protest against the action of this executive com- 
mittee as a Government director? — A. I have frequently done so. 

Q. Did you do it formally, so as to enter your protest on the minutes 
of the board? — A. I do not know whether such a thing can be found on 
the' minutes; but it has been done in discussions of the board. I have 
objected very emphatically in the meetings of the board of directors to 
having the action of the board of directors undone by the executive 
committee. 

Q. Ton protested earnestly against this coal contract? — A. Yes, sir; 
I have been at war upon that for two or three years. 

Q. Were you a member of Congress in 1864? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What, if anything, do you know in reference to a change of route 
from Sioux City, in Iowa, to Omaha? — A. When the bill of 1862 was 
reported from the Pacific Eailroad Committee it provided for an Iowa 
branch, the main trunk commencing not farther west than the one hun- 
dredth meridian. I was not satisfied with the shape of the bill. I 
was at that time practically the only representative in the House from 
the State of Iowa, my colleague, General Yanderveer, being in the 
Army. I secured an amendment to the bill, under which the Omaha 
line was built. In connection with one or two members from Minnesota, 
I waited on the Committee on the Pacific Eailroad, and induced them 
to put in also the Sioux City branch. The provision of the act of 
1862, as nearly as I can recollect it, was that the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company should construct that Sioux City branch whenever a road 
was constructed through Iowa from the East terminating at Sioux City. 
When the bill of 1864 was under consideration, our State had six mem- 
bers of the House. Mr. Hubbard, from the then sixth district, resided 
at Sioux City. He was very anxious to have a railway connection as 
early as possible from his section of the State. In the mean time the 
Dubuque and Sioux City Eailroad Company had become involved in 
financial difficulties, and were not pushing their road. Mr. Hubbard 
concluded that he could get the connection sooner by having the road 
constructed, by an independent company, and without waiting for the 
action of the Dubuque and Sioux City Company, and therefore in his 
amendment he provided for releasing the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany from constructing the Sioux City branch, and for authorizing 
some company to be organized in Iowa or elsewhere to construct that 
branch. 

Q. The change was made in the act of 1864 authorizing this Sioux 
City branch to be constructed by another company, which was then 
organized, or which might thereafter be organized, I believe? — A. Yes ; 
I think that was in the provision. 

Q. Was there a company at that time organized, under whose charter 
that Sioux City branch was afterward constructed ?— A. The company 
which constructed the Sioux City branch was not organized at the date 
of the passage of the act of 1864. 

Q. When was it organized ?— A. It was organized some »time during 
that year. 

Q. Has that company built the road? — A. Yes, sir. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 237 

Q. Aud received the subsidies of the Government ? — A. So I under- 
stand. 

Q. Is that company subject to* Government directors ? — A. No, sir. 
There is a very peculiar feature in this whole Pacific Railroad legisla- 
tion; which is that none of the subsidized roads have Government di- 
rectors, except the Union Pacific Railroad. 

Q, Has not the Central Pacific ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. This Sioux City branch did have Government directors under the 
act of 1862 ?— A. I think the act of 1862 provided for Government 
directors. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. It has been stated here that Mr. Ames said that he had paid to 
you and other gentlemen a sum of money in consideration of his get- 
ting control in some way or other of that Sioux City branch. 

Witness. I understood from the public prints that such statements 
had been made. I am perfectly willing to have that whole subject de- 
veloped, but inasmuch as it relates to me personally, I would prefer to 
have it done in another way than by taking my testimony in the first 
instance. I would rather have another witness state the facts than to 
state them myself, and in addition to that I should like to have placed 
before the committee the record in the suit of Lambard against Blair, 
Ames, and others, in New York, where the whole transaction is dis- 
cussed. 

The Chairman. If you would prefer. to let the matter stand as it is 
now until further testimony is taken by the committee on this subject, 
I do not know that there is any objection to it. 

Witness. I would, not because I am not perfectly willing to tell the 
committee all about it, but because I would prefer to have it come in 
that way. I would like very much to have that record before the com- 
mittee, and, if it is not here already, I will place it before the committee 
in a few days. 

Q. Who constructed the Sioux City branch? — A. That was, I think, 
constructed by what is known as the Sioux City Construction Company. 

Q. And who are the parties actively interested in that construction 
company? — A. John J. Blair was the principal party. He had the en- 
tire supervision of the construction of the line. 

Q. Is that construction company a corporation ? — A. I think it is a 
corporation organized under the general incorporation laws of the State 
of Iowa. 

Q. Do yon know whether Mr. Oakes Ames was connected with that 
corporation ? — A. I think he was one of the largest stockholders in it. 

Q. Who else of the managing men of the Union Pacific Railroad were 
interested in this construction company ? — A. I do not know whether I 
can name any one besides Mr. Ames. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. You, of course, Mr. Wilson, were well informed of the progress of 
the legislation of 1864 in reference to these railroads 1 — A. Yes ; I took 
a good deal of interest in it. 

Q. Was the existence and character of the route through the Rocky 
Mountains, by which the railroad passes at present, known to you at 
that time ? — \. It was not. 

Q. When was it first made known to you % — A. I do not think it was 
made known to me until after the road was well on in course of con- 
struction. I have understood, by conversing with General Dodge, while 



238 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

he was chief engineer of the company, that when they were surveying for 
the line, a party of his engineers, he being out with them, were dispersed 
by the Indians, and that in endeavoring to make their way back, going 
in separate parties, he came upon an unusual and remarkable connec- 
tion between the sedimentary rock and the granite, a few miles this side 
of what is now Sherman's Station. He said he marked the place as well 
as he could by observing the prominent landmarks of the region, and 
that when he returned to Omaha he sent out a surveying party, under 
Mr. Evans, to find this place and run a line over it, giving him the best 
description of the locality he could, and telling him of this singular con- 
nection. It is a very peculiar one. General Dodge told me that it was 
the only connection between the sedimentary rock and the granite he 
had ever been able to find in tracing the country for two hundred and 
fifty miles north and south, and that that discovery was what enabled 
the constructors of the Union Pacific Railroad to save a great deal of 
the money which was made in the construction of the road. 

Q. "What date did he fix for that ? — A. I do not know. I suppose the 
date can be found among the records of the engineers office. 

Q. Was it before the legislation of 1874! — A. 3sTo; my recollection is 
that it was after that. I never heard of it from him until after he be^ 
came a member of the Fortieth Congress. 

Q. W r hat I want to get at is whether, so far as you know, the route 
through the Socky Mountains that was actually adopted, and its char- 
acter, were disclosed at the time of the legislation of 1864 % — A. No, sir ; 
I am quite certain that the character of the route was not disclosed, if 
it had been discovered. 

Q. If it had been disclosed, do you think that the legislation of 1864 
would have been obtained ; I mean the right to give the first-mortgage 
bonds priority over the Government bonds 1 — A. I am perfectly willing 
to give my opinion about that. From my knowledge of the line now, 
and of the country through which it passes, I think that if Congress had 
understood what can be seen in that country now, the act of 1864 would 
not have been passed in its present terms. 

Q. That is, Congress would not have allowed them to give $27,000,000 
of first-mortgage bonds priority over the Government bonds ? — A. Yes. 
It looks very different now, going through the country by rail, from what 
it did by the reports that came to us as to the condition of the country, 
its character, formation, &c. 



Washington^ D. O., January 22, 1873. 
Peter A. Dey sworn and examined. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Where do you reside'? — A. I reside in Iowa City ; I am a native of 
New York. 

Q. State what was the nature and term of your entire service for the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company, or for any association or individuals 
connected with its construction f — A. In September^ 1862, shortly after 
the organization of the Pacific Kailroad Company in Chicago, I was em- 
ployed by Mr. Farnum, a railroad contractor, to go over this line of 
road, to make a reconnaissance from the Missouri River to Salt Lake, and 
to tell him what I thought of the chances of building a road, and what I 
thought there was in the country that would make it available after it 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 239 

was built. I went over the country from Omaha through. I went up 
the Platte Valley, and went to Denver. I crossed the Snowy Eange 
back of Denver, with a small party — just small enough to supply guides. 
I was somewhat acquainted with same of those mountain men. I met 
Mr. Berthoud, who had a pass back of Denver, which he thought was 
available; but the chances of getting through over there did not seem 
sufficient to me. Then I followed the range up north. I crossed the 
Black Hills at the Cheyenne Pass, which satisfied me that it was pos- 
sible to get through there. Then I went on and crossed the main sum- 
mit of the country at the Bridger Pass, which is some distance south of 
where the road now crosses. Then I followed down this valley of Bitter 
Creek to Green Kiver, and went down Eagle Canon to the Salt Lake 
Valley. I came home and made a report to Mr. Henry Farnum. I made 
him a pretty full report of what I saw and what I thought of it. He laid 
the report away, and I heard nothing of it until^I think, the August of 
the following year. I took the map which was' made by Stansbury of 
his reconnaissance and put in a line as I thought it ought to be run on 
that map, which I accompanied with a report. In about a year after- 
ward, I guess jm August, 1863, .Mr. Durant telegraphed, me to come to 
New York and bring with me any papers I might have in relation to the 
country of the Pacific Railroad. I got this report of mine and the map 
and took them on there. My impression is that the company afterward 
paid Mr. Farnum the cost of my reconnaissance. They published that 
report of mine among the first papers that were issued. 

Q. At that time you were not in the employment of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company, of course? — A. No, sir; I was employed by Mr. 
Durant about the 1st of September, 1863, to make some surveys there. 
I put a party in, and ran a line over the Cheyenne Pass and the Bridger 
Pass, and I sent a party and ran a line over the ridge in both instances 
to see whether my judgment was correct or not. I had that done that 
fall. I made some surveys between Omaha and the Platte Valley, and 
between Belieview and the Platte Valley. I ran three lines from Omaha 
and one line from a point above, nearly opposite where the Sioux City 
and Pacific Railroad now crosses. I ran a line round the Platte Valley, 
starting from the Missouri River, and following the Platte Valley round 
to its mouth. These preliminary line3 were finished early in the winter 
of 1861. On the 30th of December 1 was appointed engineer of the road 
by the executive committee, and my acts and doings under the authority 
of Mr. Durant were adopted by the company. 

Q. What information did you acquire, either from your own surveys 
or reports to you, or by conversation with Mr. Dorant or anybody 
else, of the Evans Pass, through which the road now runs ? — A. 1 knew 
nothing of it. The Evans Pass was not discovered, I think, until the 
fall of 1865. It was not discovered when I left the road, which was on 
the 1st of January, 1865. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Have you ever been over that portion of the line through the Blaek 
Hills, where the road is now constructed? — A. !No, sir. 

Q. That part of it you do not kuow anything about? — A. No, sir. 

Q. From the one hundredth meridianwesfcward, as far as you know the 
line, what is the character of the country over which the road passes, 
and what are the difficulties and facilities in the way of constructing a 
railroad ?— A. The grading is very light until you get to the Black 
Hills. 



240 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. What distance is that from the one hundredth meridian ? — A. I 
think it is about three hundred and fifty miles. 

Q. From what you know ®f the character of the country, taking into 
account the cost of transportation, the cost of labor, the cost of iron 
and such other materials as go to the construction of a railroad, for 
what sum per mile could that 350 miles be built? — A. I cannot an- 
swer that question. 

Q. Had there been any estimates made, prior to the time when your 
connection with the road ceased, of the cost of construction over that 
portion of the line ! — A. No, sir ; I think not. 

Q. Had that portion of the line been located prior to the time when 
you left the employment of the company 1 ?— A. No, sir. 

Q. How much of the line had been located when you left the road % — 
A. I think about two hundred miles. 

Q. And that was the two hundred miles west of Omaha ! — A. Yes. 

Q. Had there been estimates made on that portion of the line before 
you left the road % — A. Yes. 

Q. Were the estimates made as to the cost of construction ?— A. Yes. 

Q. Do you recollect who made those estimates? — A. They passed 
through my hands. That is, the quantities were figured up by young 
men of the party. Those estimates I was responsible for. 

Q. They were returned, I suppose, to the office of the Union Pacific 
Bailroad Company ? — A. Yes. 

Q. And ought to be found there ? — A. Yes. ♦ 

Q. Can you give the committee any definite idea as to what these esti- 
mates show ? — A. No ; I never kept copies of them. When I left the 
road I turned all these papers over. 

Q. Were these estimates what you regarded as being fair estimates 
as to the cost of construction ? — A. They were estimates in dollars and 
cents. My idea was that our estimates were large. 

Q. Can you tell whether they went up as high as $50,000 a mile ? — A. 
I made an estimate of the road for the first one hundred miles from 
Omaha, which did run up to about that. I made another estimate, 
which was a good deal below that. 

Q. Which was the correct estimate % — A. The lower one. 

Q. How did you happen to .make the estimate at $50,000 per mile? — 
A. Mr. John E. Henry, who was a kind of superintendent of construc- 
tion, came on from New York with orders to make a large estimate. 

Q. Wliere is Mr. Henry now ? — A. I do not know j I think he is in 
Texas. 

Q. What was the character of the order he had ? — A. He came up 
there, and said that he w r as instructed to have an estimate of a pretty 
large amount made there, giving the basis on which he wanted it done. 

Q. Were these orders in writing? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was that basis which he gave to you in writing ? — A. That I do 
not recollect now. 

Q. Did he say from whom he got his instructions? — A. Yes ; he said 
he got his instructions from Mr. Durant. 

Q. And you made out the first estimate according to the basis he 
gave? — A. No; I think that was the second estimate. I think the first 
estimate was made out before that for the first 100 miles and was 
returned. 

, Q. Do you recollect now the difference between the first estimate and 
the second estimate ? — A. No, sir, I do not. 

Q. Can you approximate it ? — A. My impression is that the difference 
was some fifteen or twenty thousand dollars a mile. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 241 

Q. From your knowledge of that portion of the line lying between 
Omaha, and the one hundredth meridian, what could that portion of the 
road have been reasonably constructed for, taking into consideration 
the price of materials, the cost of transportation, &c? — A. I should think 
that about $30,000 a mile would cover it, including equipments. This 
j give you from my recollection. 

Q. If 1 understand you, you made an estimate which you returned to 
the office of the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. Yes. 

Q. And afterward Mr. Henry came on, and under his instructions you 
made a second estimate ? — A. Yes. 

Q. And it was the second estimate that was up to about $50,000 a 
mile ?— A. Yes. That was for a single track, with all the necessary 
equipments, sidings, stations, buildings, water-tanks, &c. 

Q. How much of this road was covered by these two estimates ? — A. 
The first hundred miles. 

Q. Did you make any estimates for anything after that? — A. Yes, sir. 
The estimate for the second hundred miles was not quite so heavy as for 
the first. 

Q. What was the estimate for the second hundred miles I — A. My im- 
pression is that it was about $27,000 a mile. 

Q. And what was the second estimate on that hundred miles ! — A. 
did not make a second estimate. 

Q. Did you return to the office the estimate which you made on the 
second hundred miles 1 — A. Yes. 

Q. Were the first estimates that you made on these two hundred miles 
what you considered to be fair ? — A. I considered them full. 

Q. Who made the second estimate on the second hundred miles % — A. 
I do not know ; I never saw it. 

Q. When was it that you made the estimate on the second hundred 
miles ? — A. It was in the summer of 1864. 

Q. And when was it that you made the second estimate on the first 
hundred miles? — A. In September or October, 1864. 

Adjourned. 



Washington, D. C, January 23, 1873. 
Olvier A^oes sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : ; , 

Question. Where do you reside? — Answer. In Pittstou, Massachu- 
setts. 

Q. Have you been in any way connected with the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company ; and if so, in what way, and when did your relations with 
that company begin ?— A. I was elected director in October, 1866, and 
was made president of the company when General Dix was appointed 
minister to Austria in November, 1866. 

Q. Had you been a stockholder prior to that ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When did you first become a stockholder ? — A. I cannot tell you 
definitely, but I think it was late in 1865. 

Q. Are you an officer of the road at the present time ?— A. 1 am one 
of the directors. 

Q. And also a stockholder ?— A. And also a stockholder. 

Q. Have you been in any way connected with the corporation known 
as the Credit Mobilier of America ; and if so, in what way, and when 
did you commence to be connected with it ?— A. I never was an officer 
16 CM 



242 CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

of that company. I have been connected with it as a stockholder. I 
was a stockholder in 1865. 

Q. Are you still a stockholder ? — A. I am. 

Q. And have you been all the time since you first became a stock- 
holder?— A. Yes. 

Q. Have you been in any way engaged in the management of the 
Credit Mobilier ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You had no relation to it other than as a stockholder? — A. ~No 
other. 

Q. Do you know of a contract having been made with Oakes Ames 
for the construction of any part of the Union Pacific Eailroad ? — A. 
I do. 

Q. Was there any work done by Oakes Ames under that contract 
prior to its assignment ? — A. I cannot say. The contract was assigned 
within a month or two months after it was made. My impression is 
that there was no work done under the contract until after the assign- 
ment to the trustees. 

Q. At the time that contract was made what was your business re- 
lations to Oakes Ames ? — A. We are partners in business and have 
always been. 

Q. At the time that contract was made, and also at the time it was 
assigned, what were your official relations to the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company ? — A. I was president of the company. 

Q. Are you the Oliver Ames who executed that contract on behalf 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. I am. 

Q. When that contract was assigned it was assigned to a board of 
trustees ! — A. It was. 

Q. Were you one of that board of trustees ? — A. I was. 

Q. Are you still a trustee under that contract? — A. I am. 

Q. And have been continuously ever since the assignment ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Was there any other contract made by the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company for the construction of road of that company after the Oakes 
Ames contract? — A. There was the Davis contract. 

Q. That had reference to that portion of the road lying west of the 
Oakes Ames contract ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Was that Davis contract assigned to the same board of trustees ? — 
A. It was. 

Q. At the time the Davis contract was made what official connection 
did you have with the Union Pacific Railroad Company? — A. I was 
president of the company. 

Q. Were you president of the company also at the time of the assign- 
ment of the Davis contract ? — A. I was. 

Q. This assignment was made to the same board of trustees as the 
assignment of the Oakes Ames contract was made to ? — A. The same 
board of trustees. I think Mr. Alley was not on the board, of trustees 
at that time, although he was on the original board. 

Q. Did this board of trustees, pursuant to the Oakes Ames contract, 
proceed to the construction of the road embraced in that contract ?— A. 
It did. 

Q. And did construct it as it has been constructed? — A. Yes. 

Q. Did the board of trustees, pursuant to the Davis contract, proceed 
to the construction of the road embraced in that contract '? — A. It did. 

Q. And constructed it as it has been constructed under that con- 
tract?— A. Yes. 

Q. Have you the books and papers of that board of trustees showing 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 243 

the proceedings of the board, and the expenditures by the board in the 
performance of those two contracts ? — A. I have. The original records 
of the trustees were sent to New York in a suit that the trustees had 
there, and when I came through New York yesterday I was unable to get 
the book on account of the absence of the person who had it in charge. 
It will be here this evening. That is the record of the trustees. You 
have a copy of it here, I believe. 

Q. With that single exception have you all the books kept by the board 
of trustees during all the time that they were engaged in the perform- 
ance of that work ? — A. I think so. 

Q. Have you all the papers ? — A. All that I esteemed necessary to 
bring. 

Q. What papers have you brought? — A. Engineer's estimates and 
vouchers ; the engineer's estimates that were made from month to 
mouth. 

Q. Have you in the books the expenditure of the road from month to 
month ? — A. Yes. » 

Q. Now turn to the books and show to the committee what it cost 
these trustees to construct that portion of the road which is embraced 
in the Oakes Ames contract. — A. I am not familiar with those books, and 
am not able to do so. 

Q. Were any dividends declared by these trustees ? — A. There were. 

Q. Turn to the record showing the proceedings of the board of trustees 
in that behalf. — A. I have not that book here. That is the book which 
is on its way here. I think there is a copy of it here brought by Mr. 
Rollins. 

By Mr. SHELLAJBARaER : 

Q. I wish to ask you some questions in regard to the history of the 
issuance of the stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company to the stock- 
holders at various times. You may state first what amount of stock was 
issued before the organization of the company. — A. I do not recollect.. 
You mean the original issuance of the one thousand shares ? 

Q. Yes, under the act of 1862. — A. I do not recollect. 

Q. Can you tell approximately the. amount? — A. No, sir. I should 
think, perhaps, five thousand shares. 

Q. Of $1,000 each 1— A. No ; that would make $5,000,000. I do not 
know that there was ever a $l,000-share issued. I think there uever 
was. The law was altered before any one paid up his subscription on 
the $l,000-shares. There was only five per cent, and ten per cent, paid 
on the subscription, and I think there was only $2,000,000 subscribed. 
Some paid ten per cent, on their subscription, some five, and some 
nothing. That company broke up, and under the new law the shares 
were made $100-shares. 

Q. There was but $2,000,000 subscribed under the law of 1862 ?— A. 
About $3,000,000. 

Q. And on that $3,000,000 there was paid only about what per cent. ? — 
A. From five to ten per cent. Some paid five and some ten. I do not 
tbink any one paid over ten. 

Q. What was done with that $2,000,000 of stock after the enactment 
of the law of 1864 % — A. I cannot tell. I did not come into the company 
until some years after 1862. I came in in the fall of 1866. 

Q. State the history of the issuing of stock after you became ac- 
quainted with the affairs of the company; that is, what amount was 
subscribed, by whom, and what per cent, was paid in ? — A. I cannot 



244 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

state very definitely without reference to the records. This stock was 
all subscribed for under the Hoxie contract and the Ames contract, I 
think, and as they completed the road and the company owed for the 
road they subscribed for the stock, and the stock was received under the 
Hoxie contract by the Credit Mobilier at that time and distributed 
among the stockholders in proportion to their stock. 

Q. As the work was executed, you say u they " subscribed for the 
stock. Who subscribed? — A. I do not want to say without examining 
the books. I was not in the company at the time of the Hoxie contract. 
The Hoxie contract was completed very soon after I came into the com- 
pany. I think the books of the company will show that precisely. You 
have these books here. I hesitate to make a statement that will not be 
exactly correct. 

Q. You may make your statements from any source of information 
you can lay your hands on. We want to get as accurately as you can 
give it the history of the subscription and issuing of the stock. — A. 
(After referring to the books.) The first subscriptions that I find are 
as follows : 

Shares. 

June 15, 1866, Thomas C. Durant 5 ? 000 

" u '.' John A. Dix 50 

September 21, 1866, Thomas C. Durant 10, 000 

u " " Credit Mobilier of America, by Thomas C. 

Durant 2, 000 

December 31, 1866, The Credit Mobilier of America, by Thomas 

C. Durant : 19, 000 

" " " Charles Tuttle 20 

" " " Thomas C. Durant, by H. C. Crane, attorney 2, 000 

Q. Have you given all the subscriptions that were made in 1866 ? — 
A. Yes; that is all that was made in 1866. 

Q. What subscriptions were made in 1867 ?— A. I find in the book for 
1867 the following subscriptions : September 21, 1867, James Fisk, jr., 
5,000 shares ; September 21, 1867, T. P. Richards, W. A. Turner, and 
James Fisk, jr., again, 5,000 snares. These latter shares were never paid 
for, and there was never anything done with them. They never paid 
anything and never got their stock. 

Q. Is that all f — A. That is all that is on this book. 

Q. What prior subscription was made to the capital stock of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company to those that you have now given ! — A. On 
the original record-book of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, on 
pages 70-1-2-3, will be found the origiual subscriptions when. the com- 
pany was first organized in September, 1863. The subscriptions were 
made under the following heading : u It haviug been made to appear to 
the president and secretary of the commissioners of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company that, at the least, 2,000 shares had, in good faith, 
been subscribed to the capital stock of the company, and that 10 per 
centum thereon had been paid into the treasury of the company by the 
following parties, to wit: (Then follow the names of the subscribers to 
the stock, with the amount of their respective subscriptions, in all 2,177 
shares at $1,000 a share.) 

Q. How much was, in fact, paid in on these shares as far as you can 
tell ; I mean prior to the date of its organization ?-^A. Ten per cent. 

Q. Please state what subscriptions were made to the capital stock of 
this company between the date of the subscriptions you have last given 
and the subscriptions mentioned in your preceding answer, made in 
1866 and 1867 . — A. That I have not the means of stating. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 245 

Q. Were there any subscriptions made to the capital stock "between 
the dates you have given in your preceding answers ? — A. I cannot tell 
you. 

Q. What subscriptions were made to the capital stock of the company 
after those that you have given as made in 1866 and 1867 ? — A. The 
next subscription that I find is-on June 17, 1868, when the following or- 
der appears on the minutes of the trustees : 

"Mr. Durant offered a resolution 'that the treasurer, B. E. Bates, be 
instructed to subscribe for $1,500,000 stock of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company at par, and make payment thereon.' Carried unani- 
mously." 

The following resolution appears immediately after the one I have 
just read: 

n Mr. Bates offered a resolution that, in accordance with the provis- 
ions of the trust, a dividend of 60 per cent, in cash and 40 per cent, in 
stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company be paid to the holders of 
the stock in the Credit Mobilier of America that have complied with the 
requirement of the trust, payable on and after this date. Yeas and nays 
vote taken. Carried unanimously. H. C. Crane, secretary. 

"Approved and adjourned." 

Q. State on what stock that dividend spoken of in the last resolution 
of 60 per cent, in cash and 40 per cent, in stock of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Compan3 T was made. — A. It was made on the stock of the 
Credit Mobilier. 

Q. Was the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company divided un- 
der that resolution at its par value or at its real value? — A. At its par 
value. 

Q. Now state whether any other subscriptions were made to the cap- 
ital stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company ; and, if so, please 
give them. — A. I find in the book of the trustees that on July 3, 1868, 
the following resolution was offered : 

" Resolved, That the treasurer be authorized and directed to subscribe 
for $2,500,000 in stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and 
make payment therefor. Carried unanimously." 

Q. Is that the next subscription that was made after the one you 
gave in your previous answer? — A. Yes, sir. On the same day, the 3d 
of July, the following resolution was adopted : 

"Resolved, That the treasurer of the committee be directed to pay to 
such individuals, or to their order, as were stockholders in the Credit 
Mobilier of America on the first day of July, instant, an allotment in 
proportion as such parties were interested, say 75 per cent, in certifi- 
cates for first-mortgage bouds in the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, and 75 per cent, in stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, or at his option may sell the stock portion to the parties interest- 
ed at $5 for every $75 of stock, payable on and after this day." 

That was at the time that Mr. Fisk made that raid and broke open the 
safe of our company and drove the company from New York. They 
made that dividend, but they were never able to pay it in stock, and 
they issued certificates for stock. They were never able to pay it in 
bonds, but they issued certificates for bonds. 

^ Q. Was there a meeting of trustees on the 8th of July, 1868, in New 
York ? — A. There was such a meeting, as appears by the record. 

Q. Read the proceedings of the meeting of July 8, 1868.— -A. u Meet- 
ing of the trustees held at the office, July 8, 1868. 

" Present, Messrs. Durant, Billon, Bates, Bushnell, and Duff. The 
minutes of the last meeting read and approved. 



246 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

" Mr. Bushnell offered resolution that the treasurer be authorized 
to sell 28,125 shares Union Pacific Railroad stock at not less than 40 
per cent., first offering it to the parties interested in the contract pro 
rata. 

"Mr. Bushnell offered resolution that the part of Mr. BushnelPs res- 
olution of July 3d relating to an allotment of stock be rescinded. 

" Mr. Bushnell offered resolution that we make an allotment of 30 
per cent, in cash to the parties interested, in trust, payable as fast as the 
trustees receive the proceeds from the sale of stock of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company. 

" Mr. Bushnell offered resolution that the treasurer be directed and 
authorized to subscribe for 3,000 shares in the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company and pay therefor. Yeas and nays vote called. Carried." 

Q. Does that vote apply to all the resolutions, as you understand it ? — 
A. Yes ; they were all adopted. 

Q. Give us the next subscription, in order of time, that was made to 
the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company. — A. On September 
3, 1868, Mr. Durant offered a resolution — 

. "That the treasurer be directed to subscribe and pay for $4,000,000 
of stock in the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and purchase $2,500,000 
of certificates for first-mortgage bonds of said company, at $101. Car- 
ried unanimously.'* 

The payment of that stock was made as follows : 

On the same day the committee on allotments reports as follows : 

" The committee to which was referred the subject of a dividend 
recommends a payment of 40 per cent., payable in the stock of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company, at 40 per cent, of its "par value. 
Signed John Duff, B. E. Bates, Sidney Dillon." 

" On motion of Mr. Bushnell, resolved, that the report of the com- 
mittee be accepted and adopted. Carried unanimously." 

Q. Give us the next subscription of stock to the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company. — A. In the proceedings of the board of trustees of 
December 28, 1868, the following action appears : 

"Mr. Bushnell offered a resolution that the secretary be directed to 
call on the Union Pacific Railroad Company for payment of $11,666,363, 
the amount due contractors as by the estimates of the chief engineer 
dated December 31, 1868. Carried unanimously. 

" Mr. Bushnell offered a resolution that the treasurer be directed to 
subscribe and pay for $7,500,000 of stock in the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company. Roll called, and carried unanimously. 

" Mr. Bushnell offered a resolution that an allotment be made to the 
parties of the trust, 200 per cent, in stock of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company at par, in accordance with the trust. Yea and nay vote 
taken. Carried unanimously. 

"Mr. McComb offered a resolution that the allotment made this day 
be payable on and after January 1, 1869. Carried." 

Q. Now give us the next subscription to the stock of the Union Pa- 
cific Railroad Company. — A. At a meeting of the board of trustees of 
the Davis contract, on 22d June, 1869, at the Union Pacific Railroad 
office at Boston, the following was adopted: 

" On motion it was resolved that John Duff and C. K Bushnell be a 
committee to negotiate with Governor Evans in respect to iron and 
material for the Denver road ; and it was voted that the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company be called upon to pay us ten millions of dollars, on 
account of such sum as shall appear to be due to trustees, and the 
treasurer is hereby authorized to subscribe to stock in said company to 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 247 

sufficient amount to cancel its obligations to the trustees to the amount 
for which we are under obligations to subscribe under the contract, 
deducting what has been or may be received for securities. 

"Resolved, That Messrs. Bates and Duff be a committee with author- 
ity to sell $5,000,000 of Union Pacific Railroad stock, at not less than 
50 of the par value, at such terms as the} 7 may deem best. 

u Eesolved, That John Duff, Oliver Ames, and O. N. Bushnell be a com- 
mittee to adjust all accounts due the contractors on the line of the road. 
Passed on a yea and nay vote, unanimously." 

Q. What body of persons is it whose action these resolutions set 
forth?— A. Trustees. 

Q. Of what?— A. Trustees under the Ames and Davis contracts. 
All these resolutions have been the resolutions of the seven trustees. 

Q. Were there any subscriptions paid to the capital stock of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company after that alluded to in the last resolution 
read ? — A. I think there was no other. This last is dated June 23, 1869, 
and the next date I find is February, 1870, so that there is a gap of seven 
months, but I think that that embraces about all the stock subscribed 
for. 

Q. You think that there was no stock subscribed for after that which 
you have stated in your last answer? — A. I think not. 

Q. Is all the stock that was ever subscribed to the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company embraced in the amount subscribed as appears on 
pages 70,-1,-2,-3* of the books to which you have referred, and that sub - 
scribed in 1866 and '67 which you have stated and that named in the 
various resolutions you have now set forth in your answer? — A. Accord- 
ing to my*best knowledge. I cannot say but that there may have been 
some between those points. What was subscribed under the Hoxie 
contract I have no knowledge of. This is what was subscribed under 
the Oakes Ames contract. I think that all other stock that has been 
subscribed has been subscribed by the Credit Mobilier under the Hoxie 
contract. I am not certain that there is other stock, but I am certain 
that this book embraces all that has been subscribed since my connec- 
tion with the company. Still there may have been some stock subscribed 
under the Hoxie contract which they have not put down. 

Q. How was the residue of the stock paid in above the 10 per cent, 
of which you spoke, for the subscription on pages 70,-1,-2,-3, of the 
book to which you have referred ? — A. It never was paid up. They 
abandoned their subscriptions, except a few persons, and what they had 
paid in was paid back to them. 

Q. Then that subscription was entirely abandoned and never stood 
afterward in the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. 
Xo, sir. Some abandoned it entirely and had nothing to do with it, 
and some took out new stock, and some were paid quite a large sum for 
their interest in the subscription. 

Q. Then, if I understand you, in so far as the same persons who sub- 
scribed in the first subscription became subsequently stockholders, they 
made new subscriptions and got credit for the 10 per cent, they had 
paid in on their old subscriptions ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Others abandoned their subscriptions, left the company, and had 
their money paid back?— A. Yes. 

Q. And all the future government of the company was embodied in 
and represented by the subscriptions that were made after the law of 
1861 ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When the shares were reduced to $100 each ?— A. Yes. 

Q. At what places were books, to receive subscriptions to the capital 



248 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, opened? — A. In New 
York, Boston, Baltimore, Saint Louis, Philadelphia, and Chicago. We 
have all the books here except the Chicago book. 

Q. How long were the books kept open"/ — A. The books were never 
returned until 1869, after the office was removed to Boston. We called 
the books in, but the one from Chicago has never been returned. 

Q. Were any subscriptions made to the capital stock of the company 
at any other place than at the principal office at New York ?— A. Yes, 
sir ; these books show a few subscriptions; I think there were a few in 
Boston. The books do not show that any were subscribed at any place 
but New York and Boston. 

Q. When were these books opened at the various places named ? — 
A. At the time mentioned in the law. They were sent out to these 
various places for subscriptions. 

Q. Was there any public notice given through the newspapers, or 
otherwise, inviting subscription and notifying the public of the opening 
of the books at the places designated in the act of Congress? — A. I sup- 
pose there was, but this was all before I had anything to do with the 
company. The- records of the company show that there were very 
spirited meetings called. They were advertised very generally. 

Q. Was it before or after the act of 1864? — A. Before the act of 
1864. 

Q. How was it after the act of 1864 ; did you send out any subscrip- 
tion-books after the act of 1864 was passed 1 — A. That I do not know. 
These books lay there all the time. They were not called in till 1869. 

Q. Was there any notice given to the public of the opening of these 
subscriptions after the passing of the act of 1864? — A. That I cannot 
say. 

Q. State how the stock that was subscribed by the persons whom you 
have named as having subscribed in 1866- 7 67 was paid in. — A. I think 
that only 10 per cent, was paid on them. 

Q. Can you state that 10 per cent, was paid at the time of subscrip- 
tion — paid in money— by those gentlemen whose names you have given 
as having subscribed in the years of 1866->67 ? — A. The first subscription 
was paid under the Credit Mobilier contract by Thomas C. Durant. 

Q. How much ? — A. Five thousand shares. 

Q. Describe how it was paid. — A. That was a subscription by the 
Credit Mobilier of America, and I presume it was paid by the indebted- 
ness of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company to the Credit Mobilier for 
the construction of the road. John A. Dix is the next subscriber for 
fifty shares. Whether he ever paid for that I do. not know. The next 
is Thomas C. Durant, ten thousand shares, and the next under that is 
Credit Mobilier of America, by Thomas C. Durant, two thousand shares. 
I presume that both these were paid in the same way. 

Q. And what way was that? — A. Both were paid by the indebtedness 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company for the construction of the road 
under the Hoxie contract, amounting to about $12,000,000. The next 
is Mr. Charles Tuttle, who was the assistant treasurer of the Union Pa- 
cific Eailroad Company. His subscription was for twenty shares. I 
presume he never paid anything on that. The next is Thomas C. Du- 
rant, by H. C. Crane, attorney, 2,000 shares, and the next is the Credit 
Mobilier of America, by Thomas C. Durant, president, nineteen thousand 
two hundred shares. 

Q. How was that paid up ? — A. That I cannot say. This embraces 
all that is in here. 

Q. Did this continue to stand on the books of the company, so far as 



CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 249 

you know, as stock represented in its government ? — A. No, sir. Stock 
was only represented when it was issued. Of course no stock was issued 
except when it was paid for. 

Q. Was that stock canceled and issued in new forms to other parties, 
or did it remain ever afterward as stock subscribed and paid for and 
voted in the government of the company? — A. I think it was never 
voted in the government of the company unless it was paid for. 

Q. And you do not know whether it was all paid for % — A. No, sir; I 
do not. No stock was ever issued after my connection with the com- 
pany unless it was paid for at par. 

Q. How was the residue of the stock, which is spoken of in the vari- 
ous resolutions you have caused to be put in your evidence, paid up ? — 
A. It was paid up by the indebtedness of the Union Pacific Kailroad 
Company to the contractors. There is here on the Boston book, under 
date of October 7, 18G9, a subscription to fifty thousand shares of the 
stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company by John A. Eice, assist- 
ant treasurer of the seven trustees under the Davis contract. On Jan- 
uary 26, 1870, John A. Eice, assistant treasurer of the trustees, ten 
thousand shares. On February 11, 1870, John A. Eice, assistant 
treasurer of the trustees, twenty thousand shares. On February 18, 
1870, John A. Eice, assistant treasurer of the trustees, ten thousand. 
July 29, 1870, John A. Eice, assistant treasurer of the trustees, thirty 
thousand shares. 

Q. State on what authority or directions these subscriptions of Mr. 
John A. Eice were made. — A. By resolutions of the trustees, precisely 
the same as I have read before. 

Q. Please turn* to those resolutions directing these subscriptions by 
Mr. Eice as treasurer. — A. That book is not here. The book that will 
show that is on its way here from New York. 

Q. I believe your answer is already down that these subscriptions 
were made by direction of the seven trustees ? — A. Yes. 

Q. State how these various subscriptions made by Mr. Eice were paid 
up. State it minutely and fully. — A. Under the Ames and Davis con- 
tracts, under which the road was constructed at that time, the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company owed to the trustees large amounts of money, 
and by the terms of the trust we were obliged to subscribe for stock to 
the amount of any balance that was due. 

Q. TV ere these various subscriptions paid up by a credit to the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company for work done under the Ames and Davis 
contracts! — A. Yes. 

Q. Go to the books and show where these credits are given.— A. I 
find the following entries in the ledger of the trustees: On pages 230 and 
231 the Union Pacific Eailroad Company is credited with twenty-two 
thousand nine hundred and sixty shares of stock as being issued to the 
trustees January 3, 1868 ; also, June 17, 1868, for cash for fifteen thou- 
sand shares, $1,500,000 ; also July 3, 1868, for cash for twenty-five thou- 
sand shares Union Pacific Eailroad stock, $2,500,000 ; also July 14, 
1868, for cash for three thousand shares Union Pacific Eailroad stock, 
$300,000 ; also December 31, 1868, for cash for seventy -five thousand 
shares Union Pacific Eailroad stock, $7,500,000. 

Q. Can you give the residue of the payment made for stock which is 
not embraced in the answer you have now given as shown by the books ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. State whether any money was paid on any of the capital stock 
subscribed to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company by any of its sub- 
scribers other than what you have stated in a former answer where you 



250 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

said that 10 per cent, was paid by the original subscribers in 1863. — 
A. I think substantially not, although I believe that in some of the first 
issues of the stock to the parties who took it under contracts $1 per 
share was paid. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. When these subscriptions were made by the Credit Mobilier trus- 
tees to the capital stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, what 
was the process ? What happened at the time of the payment ? Was 
there any absolute payment in cash on these subscriptions, or was it a 
mere payment in road bill ? — A. It was a payment in road bill ; we paid 
cash for building the road, and then we took stock from the company in 
payment of the expenditures. 

Q. But you would not have considered that stock as equivalent to so 
much cash in payment for your expenditures'? — A. No, sir ; we would not. 

Q. Therefore you did not consider the amount of expenditure in road- 
building, which you paid in for the stock, as equivalent for so much 
cash, did you? — A. No, sir; I would have been loath to have taken it. 

Q. Then, so far as the subscriptions of the Credit Mobilier were con- 
cerned, there was no cash payment for subscriptions except so far as this 
might be considered equivalent ? — A. We actually paid cash ; the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company agreed to pay to contractors so much money ; 
when the contractors came to us with their bills, we, the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company, if we had not bonds to pay them, paid the balance 
in stock; we sold our bonds and paid in cash as far as it would go, or we 
paid them in bonds, which, by the contract, they were obliged to take ; 
and the balance, due on the contract, we were obliged'to pay in stock. 

Q. My question is whether $100 in stock, so subscribed for and so 
paid, was deemed by either party to the transaction as equivalent to 
$100 in cash? — A. By the Union Pacific Railroad Company of course it 
was equivalent to $100, but the man -who took it would have been very 
glad to sell it for $30 or $40. 

Q. As contractors you got cash, bonds of the company, and Govern- 
ment bonds for building the road? — A. Yes. 

Q. You did not regard that, in paying you for building the road, $100 
in stock was worth its face to you "} — A. No, sir. 

Q. You expected to get somethiug else beside that $100 in stock, as 
your $100 worth on your contract I — A. Yes. The stock was really not 
worth to the contractor who took it par by any means, because it could 
be always bought in the market as low, generally, as from $30 to $40. 

Q. Then, if the $100 in stock was only worth about $30 or $40 to the 
contractor to whom it was paid, in proportioning what he rendered to 
the company between what was given as an equivalent for its stock and 
what was given as an equivalent for its Government bonds and what 
was given as an equivalent for its own first-mortgage bonds, he did not 
render to the company $100 in value for every $100 in stock, did he? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Was there any actual going through the ceremonial of paying in 
cash on those subscriptions to the treasurer of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company ? — A. Yes, there was always a check given. 

Q. But the money never got into the -treasury of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company^ I suppose ? — A. The Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany gave the trustees a check for the amount due, and the trustees 
turned over that check in payment to the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany for stock. 

Q. There never was any interval between the payment of this check 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 251 

for stock and handing of it over again in payment of the contract? — A. 
Probably not. 

Q. When you made, in behalf of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, 
the contract with Mr. Oakes Ames as contractor, you expected that the 
transaction which you have now described would be the substance of the 
transaction that would take place, did you not ? — A. Substantially. 

Q. At that time was any person, so far as you know, interested either 
legally or by any equitable agreement, with Mr. Oakes Ames in that 
contract ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You understood that no other person was interested with your 
brother in that contract, directly or indirectly, at the time he took it ? 
— A. No, sir. 

Q. Was it expected, so far as you know, by any other party, that any 
others would come in and be interested in it afterward ! — A. I think it 
was. 

Q. What was the expectation ? — A. I think that the expectation was, 
that the parties in interest in the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
would aid him in carrying out tbat contract. 

Q. What is your reason for supposing that that was the expectation ? — 
A. I do not know that I have any reason for it. I felt so myself, that I 
was willing to join him in the thing, and I think that others did. 

Q. You were his general business partner, were you not ? — A. I am. 

Q. Had you any interest, or right to acquire an interest, by your 
express understanding, or by course of business, in this contract with 
your brother? — A. No, sir. 

Q. W T hen you say you were his general business partner, you do not 
mean that your partnership was so general as to include this transac- 
tion ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. This expectation or understanding, I suppose, was expressed in 
words or in conversation, was it not?— A. I have no recollection of its 
being so. 

Q. This right to come in and share in the profits and losses of a con- 
tract amounting to some $47,000,000, was there nothing which rendered 
it distinct in the minds of the parties, or in your mind ? — A. No, sir; 
there was that general feeling, but I do not think that there was ever 
anything said about it, only that Mr. Oakes Ames would do it for the 
benefit of his associates in the road. 

Q. Was that said ? That is the point of the inquiry. I want to know 
whether the understanding was either put in writing at the time, or was 
understood verbally among these gentlemen, that when Mr. Oakes Ames 
made that proposition to the company he represented the rest of the 
gentlemen ^v*hom he afterward took in with him? — A. I do not think 
there was the least understanding about it at all. 

Q. So if it had been ascertained the next week that Mr. Oakes Ames 
would be able to go on with this contract and make ten or twelve millions 
of dollars profit, there was no legal, equitable, or honorary right on the 
part of anybody else to share those profits? — A. That is the way I un- 
derstood it. 

Q. The Hoxie contract had been previously acquired by the Credit 
Mobilier, had it not ?— A. Yes. 

Q. And the profits in that had been shared by these A. Stock- 
holders of the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. Now, when youn brother took this contract, there was a provision 
in it by which he was to be paid (as has been testified to by other wit- 
nesses) for a good many miles of the road at a large price which had been 
already built, completed, accepted by the Government, and paid for at 



252 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

a small price. Now, why was that done! — A. That road which was 
completed beyond the one hundredth meridian was in a very imperfect 
state. In fact, there was really n6 equipment on it. There were no de- 
pots of any consequence on it, although there were some that were neces- 
sary to run it. The road-bed was done, and that was about all. That 
was done for the purpose of making the whole contract for the 667 miles, 
and he took it at a lower rate. That road cost nearly $42,000, when he 
came to put on the equipment. 

Q. That was limited to $7,500 a mile!— A. Yes; $7,500 a mile of 
equipment was to be put on. Then the depots, the round-houses, and 
all these things were not up at that time. The work had been hurried 
through. He was to do all these things and to complete the 667 miles, 
and we thought we had got a very good contract out of him in having it 
done at $42,000 a mile, when we had been just paying $50,000 a mile 
for that portion below it. 

Q. Who are the u we n . who had got the good contract ! — A. The 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 

Q. But as you understood, the gentlemen interested in the company 
would share the benefits of it! — A. We were willing to take the risks ; 
we did not know whether there would be a profit or a loss in it, but we 
were willing to take the risks. It was a pretty difficult thing. I know 
that at that time I would have been very glad to have paid $100,000 to 
any person to have taken our places. For a year or two we were paying 
18 or 19 per cent, for money. We paid 19 per cent, for money in New 
York to carry on this work. We were deeply in debt and very much 
embarrassed, and we were using our credit to the utmost extent in 
driving the work along. For a period previous to the Ames contract, 
and for six months afterward, I think there was none of us who was not 
willing to have gone out at the loss of half of what we had paid in. It 
was further supposed at the time that contract was taken that the 
mountain region would be very much more expensive than it proved to 
be. We got a very much better line than we anticipated. I know that 
the Government directors at that time thought that the contract was 
very favorable. We had five eminent men from the Government on 
that board, and they even insisted that we must make a provision that 
we would continue to build the road. They supposed when we got that 
contract that we would not go on with the rest of the road. 

Q. Who were those five gentlemen! — A. Charles Sherman, George 
Ashmun, Jesse L. Williams, Mr. Harbaugh, and T. J. Carter. 

Q. Was the character of the route and the existence of the pass, 
which is now called the Evans Pass, communicated to the Government 
directors at that time so far as you know, through which the road was 
in fact built ! — A. I think there was always a free discussion in the 
board over the whole thing. I think that Mr. Jessie L. Williams knew 
very well about it. He had been all over the country. The general 
feeling at the time was that we were going to take a long route by going 
up the Cache la Poudre, but this proved to be a better route and a 
shorter one. 

The Chairman. It is proper to call your attention to the importance 
of this point, so that you may make your statement fully and carefully. 
Mr. Durant testified that he knew of this pass in 1863, and Mr. Dey testi- 
fied, I believe, that in his judgment it was not known till the end of the 
year 1865. Now, what I wish to know about it is, whether the gentle- 
men who built the road communicated anything on the subject that you 
recollect to the Government directors at* the time of making that con- 
tract ; and if so, what it was ! — A. I did not know, and I was not aware 



CREDIT MOBILIEK AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 253 

that we were going to have so favorable a route. We supposed just 
previous to that time that the route would be up the Cache la Poudre, 
running down almost to Denver. 

Q. Was not the road located at the time you made the contract with 
your brother, by the way it now goes 1 — A. No, sir ; I think not. 

Q. Is that not included in the first Oakes Ames contract 1 — A. I was 
thinking that it was not. 

Q. You did not let it without knowing where the road was to be 
located % — A. The road was not thoroughly located at the time. 

Q. I suppose that the pass through the Eocky Mountains through 
which the road was to go was determined upon at that time % — A. I do 
not recollect whether it was or not. 

Q. You acted as the president % — A. I was the president of the road. 

Q. What was the cause for the removal of Mr. Dey from his office as 
engineer? — A. I suppose because we got a better man in General 
Dodge. 

Q. What was the particular want of capacity in Mr. Dey % — A. I do 
not know. Before I went on the road he was removed. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. Suppose that the trustees who built the road had made one hun- 
dred miles of that road for $30,000 a mile, amounting to $3,000,000, and 
by their cou tract with the Union Pacific Railroad Company they were 
entitled to receive $96,000 a mile, and thus made a profit of the differ- 
ence between $30,000 a mile, which it cost, and $96,000 a mile, which 
they received from the Union Pacific Railroad Company, how much 
stock would that one hundred miles entitle the trustees to % Would it 
entitle them to the $3,000,000 worth of stock or the $9,600,000 worth %— 
A. It would entitle them to the difference. 

Q. I want you to understand my question. Here is one hundred miles 
of road for w r hich the trustees actually paid in cash $30,000 a mile, in 
construction ; but their contract with the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany gives them $96,000 a mile. How much stock would that one hun- 
dred miles of construction entitle the seven trustees to % — A. It would 
entitle them to the difference between the bonds which they received 
for the construction of the road and the amount due under the contract. 
For instance, we make a contract to do that work for $96,000 a mile in 
the mountain region. If we get $48,000 in Government bonds and $48,000 
in first- mortgage bonds, then we do not get any stock ; but if we get 
only $64,000 in bonds, then the balance is paid in stock. 

Q. At what rate % — A. At par. 

Q. So that in the construction of those one hundred miles for which 
the Credit Mobilier was entitled to $96,000 a mile, they would get first 
whatever the Government bonds and the first-mortgage bonds would 
yield in money % — A. Yes. 

Q. Then they would get the residue of the $96,000 a mile in stock at 
par \ — A. Yes. 

Q. And all that would be received for an outlay in cash of $30,000 a 
mile which it cost the trustees to make the road % — A. Yes, if it cost 
only that. 

Q. You stated that the work was very imperfect on that part of the 
road which was partly finished at the time the Oakes Ames contract was 
made, and which was included in it. Now, I ask you whether there was 
not a considerable part of it so complete as that the company had in- 
duced the Government to accept it as complete ? — A. I think there was, 
over one hundred miles. 



254 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Now, if there was over one hundred miles of the work actually ac- 
cepted by the Government, at the date of the letting of the Oakes Ames 
contract, why was it not excluded from the Oakes Ames contract, and 
the residue which was actually to be made let at its fair value, and on its 
own estimates? — A. We supposed that it was nothing but a fair con- 
tract to put that in, and make him equip it. All that it had cost the 
company was, of course, charged up, and the Oakes Ames contract paid 
for that road as far as it was built. 

Q. But if there was a margin of several thousand dollars per mile 
between what Mr. Ames was charged with as the cost that had been 
expended in making it as far as it was then made, and the amount 
which Mr. Ames got for making that part complete, then he would have 
all that profit % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Why did you let that road at all without any surveys or estimates 
by the engineers covering the entire line let under the Oakes Ames 
contract ? — A. We had estimates in part from the engineer ; we could 
not have known exactly about it at any time. 

Q. How could estimates be in possession of the road at the time of 
the Oakes Ames contract, when, as you have said, you did not know 
where the road was going to be made, and didn't know that it would 
turn out near as favorably as it did? — A. The route turned out much 
more favorably than we supposed. 

Q. How was it possible, when you neither knew the route of the road 
nor that it would turn out near as favorably as it did, for you to have 
any estimates or knowledge of what was a just price to let the road at 
to Mr. Ames? — A. We acted on our best judgment. 

Q. But your best judgment was based on absolute ignorance, if I 
understand you, of even the location of the road ? — A. No, sir ; I do not 
thinks it was absolute ignorance. 

Q. I will ask you this question : you have stated that you included 
that finished work in the contract with Oakes Ames because you be- 
lieved that it was a favorable contract ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And that you would not have been able to let it so low had the 
completed part not been included in the contract ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How could you have supposed that when you did not know where 
you were going to make the road and didn't know the character of the 
mountain it was going to pass over? — A. Well, we supposed the road 
would be much worse over the Eocky Mountains than it proved to be 5 
we found the rock to be much softer than we contemplated, and there 
was less road-cutting than we thought there would be. 

Q. Then the only thing you were lacking in information about was, 
not the topography of the country, or the grades, or the mountains, but 
was simply the character of the rocks that were to be excavated? — A. 
I know the character of the rock was much better than was thought. 
It was softer. The granite seemed to be disintegrated as we worked 
into it. 

Q. Now, Mr. Ames, another question. It has been testified, in sub- 
stance, that surveys, instrumental surveys, were made of the entire 
road let to Oakes Ames before such letting w r as made, and that maps 
and profiles of the road were putin possession of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road prior to the letting. Is that true or not true? — A. Well, I think 
it is true. I think there were surveys made of several routes. The 
favorite route, in the early history of the road, was the Cache la Poudre 
route; but the new route over the Black Hills, by way of Cheyenne — 
the Lodge Pole route, as we now term it — proved to be the best route. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 255 

Q. When was that route adopted ? — A. I think it was adopted after 
the Oakes Ames contract was made. 

Q. Were there profiles and estimates put in possession of any officer 
of the Union Pacific Railroad Company for the route upon which Oakes 
Ames did, in fact, construct the road? — A. I think not. 

Q. Then at the date of that letting, you had no survey, neither in the 
way of location, nor in estimates, nor in profiles, of the route that was, 
in fact, adopted and constructed under the Oakes Ames contract? — A. 
I think we had surveys of both routes, of both the Cache la- Poudre 
route and the Lodge Pole route, but as to having any definite survey of 
the quantity of material to be used, or anything of that kind, I think we 
had not. 

Q. I think your answer does not quite cover my question. My ques- 
tion is this: Was that particular line, upon which the road was con- 
structed, shown by any maps, profiles, or estimates in possession of the 
company before the Oakes Ames contract was made in August, 1867 ? — 
A. That I could not say. 

Q. Now where are these estimates, surveys, maps, and profiles upon 
which the contract was let % — A. The profiles and maps are filed here, 
in the office of the Secretary of the Interior. 

Q. You are speaking of the profiles required to be filed by act of 
Congress before you got your bonds % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. But I am asking you in regard to the profiles that you had when 
you let the Oakes Ames contract ; where are they % — A. I could not tell 
you. I think they are in New York. I have no recollection of seeing 
them with the other papers that were removed to Boston. 

Q. Now state to the committee what estimates, maps, or profiles were 
in possession of the company upon which they let the contract on the 
16th of August, 1867, to Oakes Ames? — A. My recollection on that 
point is not perfect enough to answer. 

Q. Then I will put the question in this shape, and confine your an- 
swer, please, to the line of road that was adopted ; state whether any 
maps or profiles or estimates were scrutinized by you before you let the 
Oakes Ames contract ? — A. Yes, sir ; I think there were. We had maps 
there always, more or less — maps of the line. 

Q. Of that particular line you built the road upon % — A. I am not very 
sure about that. 

Q. Now, if there were such, can you enable the committee to find 
them % — A. Yes, sir ; I think all the papers in reference to profiles, &c, 
are in Mr. Durante office in New York. I do not think they were brought 
over to Boston. 

Q. Suppose the fact were that a large portion of this road had been 
constructed and accepted by the Government before you let the Oakes 
Ames contract in August, 1867, and that the cost to the Pacific Rail- 
road Company was greatly less for that part than the amount you agreed 
to pay Oakes Ames, how would you reconcile the letting to him of the 
finished work at a greatly higher price than it had already cost the com- 
pany, with justice to the stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company, if there was at the time of letting the contract to Oakes Ames 
no understanding by which the stockholders in the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company were to have the benefit of profits made by Oakes Ames 
on the finished part of the work ?— A. When we let the contract our 
opinion was that the price was not high. 

Q. But how could you suppose that giving him forty -two or forty-five 
thousand dollars per mile for what had been finished and accepted by 
the Government, and had cost the company but twenty-seven thousand 



256 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

dollars per mile — how could you suppose that that would be justice to 
the other stockholders if they were not to share in the profits made by 
Oakes Ames ? — A. I do not recollect how much of that road was built. 
I think there was some completed, but, taking the whole contract 
together, we thought it a fair contract, throwing in that to sweeten the 
rest. 

Q. But you said a little while ago that you knew very little about the 
residue of the contract ; how could you know whether it was a fair price 
or not?— A. We had an idea that the country was pretty rough over 
the mountains, and that it would cost a great deal to go over them. 
That was the general report. 
By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. When the Hoxie contract was made, was it not understood that it 
should inure to the benefit of somebody else besides Hoxie? — A. I sup- 
pose so, because Hoxie was a man of no means. That, however, was 
long before I had any connection with the Union Pacific Railroad. 

Q. Were you one of the original stockholders of the Credit Mobilier? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. But before the Credit Mobilier had any contract, or became in- 
terested in any contract in the Union Pacific Railroad, you were a stock- 
holder in it ? — A. No, sir ; I think not. 

Q. When did you become a stockholder in the Credit Mobilier? — A. 
In 1865. 

Q. Well, now, from the time you became a stockholder in the Credit 
Mobilier, was it not understood that the contracts for the construction 
of the Union Pacific Railroad should inure to the benefit of the stock- 
holders of the Credit Mobilier? — A. It was understood that the con- 
tract should inure to the benefit of the stockholders in the Credit Mo- 
bilier who were stockholders in the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. And all the stockholders in the Credit Mobilier, by virtue of the 
dividend, became stockholders in the Union Pacific? — A. Yes, sir 5 be- 
cause the Credit Mobilier in this last contract was only interested to the 
extent of a certain percentage. It was to advance the money, and 
receive 2 J per cent, commission and 7 per cent, interest. 

Q. And that understanding was in existence from the time you took 
stock in the Credit Mobilier down to the completion of the Oakes Ames 
contract? — A. The Credit Mobilier, as I understand it, was a distinct 
corporation, and its interest in the Oakes Ames contract was only 7 
per cent, interest on such money as it might advance, and 2 J per cent, 
commission, making about 14 per cent, in all. 
By the Chairman : 

Q. Let me read you an extract from the testimony of Mr. Alley : 
"The contract was not given to the Credit Mobilier on account of the 
feeling against it on the part of the chief men and managers of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company, but they gave it to Mr. Ames, and all 
the parties interested had perfect confidence in him that he would do 
what is right, and would give to every man an interest such as belonged 
to him. The contract was executed in that way. The Credit Mobilier 
as a corporation had no jurisdiction over, or voice in it, or anything to 
do with it?" — A. That is my understanding of it. 

Q. Mr. Alley also says : " The corporation had no interest except as I 
have described. When Mr. Ames took this contract it was subject to 
the assent of the stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad Company ; 
but he said he knew the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier were the 
parties to whom it really belonged, and if there was any benefit to be 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 257 

derived from it lie thought it was fair and just to give every stockholder 
in the Credit Mobilier the right to come in and take an interest under 
his contract on signing an agreement to become personally liable, and 
that was regarded as satisfactory V — A. Yes, sir ; that is my idea. 

Q. Then your understanding of this thing is simply this : that when 
this contract was let to Mr. Ames it was the understanding that all the 
shareholders in the Credit Mobilier should have an interest in it % — A. 
That was the general feeling. 

Q. Was that the general understanding? — A. That was the general 
feeling, and understanding, perhaps j but I do not think there was any 
definite understanding of that kind. 

Q. There had been no definite written agreement between Mr. Ames 
and these shareholders at the time of this contract! — A. No, sir. 

Q. But there was an understanding that they were to have an inter- 
est in it ! — A. Yes. 

Q. And in pursuance of that understanding this contract was assigned 
to these seven trustees ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, Mr. Ames, I want to direct your attention for a moment to 
this matter that has been spoken of in regard to letting the contract for 
work that had already been accepted by the Government. There had 
been at the time the Oakes Am'es contract was assigned about 138 or 
140 miles completed and accepted by the Government, had there not? — 
A. A certain amount was completed ; I do not recollect the amount. 

Q. Before the road could be accepted by the Government it had to be 
ready for the service contemplated by the act of incorporation, and 
supplied with all necessary drains, culverts, viaducts, crossings, sidings, 
bridges, turnouts, watering-places, depots, equipments, furniture, and 
all other appurtenances of a first-class railroad. Now, so far as the 
road had been accepted by the Government, these conditions had been 
complied with, had they not? — A. Yes, sir 5 I suppose so. But when 
we had twenty miles of track laid we had built all culverts and such 
things to make the road ready before the machine-shops were ready, or 
the equipment on hand. 

Q. Do I understand you that when the various sections of this road 
were accepted by the Government these requirements of the charter 
had not been complied with? — A. There was a good track and every- 
thing of that kind, but the depots and machine-shops, and everything 
of that kind, could not be built so rapidly as we ran the road along, and 
the equipment did not necessarily require to be so large when we were 
constructing the road as was necessary to be put on afterward. 

Q. But were not the equipments necessary before there could be an 
acceptance of the road by the Government ? — A. We furnished all neces- 
sary equipment, but we did not furnish the equipment necessary for a 
road doing a heavy business. 

Q. Well, there had been some 138 miles of road completed and ac- 
cepted by the Government at the time the Oakes Ames contract was 
let. Now, I would like you to explain, if you have any explanation to 
give, w^y that 138 miles of road was included in this Oakes Ames con- 
tract at $12,000 a mile, when it had cost the company but $27,000 a 
mile ? — A. I can only say, as I have said before, that we put it all together 
in the Oakes Ames contract, and did not think we were giving any too 
much for it. 

Q. But why the necessity of letting over again a road that was al- 
ready constructed?— A. By the contract with Oakes Ames this road 
was to have the equipment on it, 

Q. Now, Mr. Ames, 1 would like to ask you a direct question. Did 
17 M 



258 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

you not, by virtue of that contract with. Oakes Ames for this 138 miles 
that had already been constructed, derive a large profit from the Union 
Pacific Railroad, and was not that profit made upon the very instant 
that that contract was signed ? — A. That was very probably the case. 

Q. Did yon not, in less than two months after that, declare a large divi- 
dend to the shareholders of the Credit Mobilier? — A. I think we did: 
the trustees declared the dividend. 

Q. Did these trustees have any existence as a board of trustees prior 
to the assignment of the Oakes Ames contract ? — A. I think not. 

Q. Then all the assets they had out of which" they made a dividend 
they derived from the Oakes Ames contract between the date of its as- 
signment and the date that dividend was declared ? — A. I suppose so. 

Q. Was not a very large proportion of the dividend which they dis- 
tributed on the 12th of December, 1867, derived from the profits that 
were made by the extension of the Oakes Ames contract over that por- 
tion of the road which had already been accepted by the Government ? — 
A. Very probably it was. 

Q. Had there not been very considerable amount of track laid — nearly 
one hundred miles — in addition to what had been accepted by the Gov- 
ernment at the time of the Oakes Ames contract? — A. I do not know 
about that. 1 suppose the books will show. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. When did you discover that the route was of a more favorable 
character than you had supposed it to be at the time of the letting of the 
Oakes Ames contract ? — A. I do not know ; within a few months after- 
ward we had reports from the mountains that it was more favorable. 

Q. Who made that report? — A. I think General Dodge; he was chief 
engineer of the Union Pacific Railroad at the time. 

Q. Did you not discover the character of the rock until you came to 
make the road ? — A. I think not. 

Q. When did you make this discovery? — A. I think it was in 1867. 

Q. Did you reach the mountains as soon as 1867 ? — A. Yes, sir ; men 
were put into the mountains immediately. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Can you tell how much this 138 miles of completed road that 
was included in the Oakes Ames contract had cost the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company I — A. I cannot. 

Q. Was it to exceed $27,000 a mile ?— A. I do not recollect. 

Q. Have you any impression on that subject? — A. I have no distinct 
impression. 

Q. Have you any indistinct impression % — A. I have an impression 
that there was an estimate that it would cost between $27,000 and 
$28,000 a mile, but I do not recollect distinctly enough to say what it 
was. 

Q. Were there receipts given by the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier 
to the board of trustees when they received the dividends that were 
declared?— A. Yes, sir; the book of receipts is here. (Book shown.) 

Q. What does this book contain ? — A. It contains the Oakes Ames 
t^ntract, the assignment of that contract, extracts from the minutes of 
the meeting, and the receipts given by parties for their dividends. 

By Mr. SwANN : 
Q. Did you represent to the Government from time to time, as you 
received your bonds, that the road completed up to that time was a 
finished road and fully equipped?— A. Commissioners came out for the 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 259 

Government and examined the road, and upon their certificate we got the 
bonds. We had no representations to make about it j the commission- 
ers examined the road and made their report. 

Q. What I want to know is, whether the road was represented by 
yourself to the Government to be a finished road in all its equipments"? 
— A. The engineers generally went over with the commissioners and 
examined the road, and upon their certificate we got the bonds. 

Q. I understand yon to say that the water-stations were not com- 
pleted? — A. No, sir;-I did not state that. I said this, that the road 
was a completed road so far as the contract was concerned, but that in 
regard to the equipment of the road we had not all the equipment that 
was necessary at that time. When the road was not completed and not 
open to travel, we only wanted equipment enough to haul the rails, &c. 

Q. Did you consider that as the full equipment of the road in accord- 
ance with the requirements of the law"? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How many engines did you have? — A. We had all that was neces- 
sary to do the work; I do not know how many. 

Q. I understand you to say that the engine-houses were not built? — 
A. We built the engine-houses as they were needed. There were prob- 
ably temporary houses built. 

Q. Were there any watering-stations built? — A. There must have 
been watering-stations ; we had windmills up all along the road. 

Q. How could these commissioners accept the road when it was in 
this unfinished condition, and no railroad man would understand it was 
in a finished condition in accordance with the requirements of the law ? 
— A. I think it was. I think the Union Pacific road was as well built 
as any road in the western country. 

Q. But I am speaking of the equipment of the road? — A. You would 
not ask us to have as large an equipment as was necessary when the 
road was in full operation. We had eminent gentlemen out there as 
commissioners, and they said it was all right. 

Q. Bo you know how much was paid under the Hoxie contract for 
the equipment of the road ? — A. I do not. Hundreds of thousands of 
dollars have been spent in engine-houses and the like. We built them 
just as fast as they were needed. 

Q. But this was done subsequently ; you got your bonds when there 
was a great deal to be done that was required to be done ? — A. The 
Government knew all about it just as well as anybody; they sent three 
men to examine every twenty miles of the road, and reported that it was. 
up to the full requirements of the law. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Did I understand you to state that when this 138 miles of finished 
road was included in the Oakes Ames contract, there still remained 
something to be done to complete it ? Did the Oakes Ames contract 
bind him to do anything more than the previous contract had bound 
him to do — that is, to complete the road according to the acts of Con- 
gress? — A. I do not know how the Hoxie contract read. The Oakes 
Ames contract required that portion of the road to«be equipped. He 
was to put on so many engines and so many cars. 

Q. Well, did not the trustees, before your brother had done any work 
on that part of the road, proceed to divide the difference between the rate 
per mile on his contract and the rate per mile under the previous 
contract, among the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier, without any 
deduction for expenditure on that part of the road ?— A. I suppose that 
was the case. 



260 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

By Mr. Shell abaegex : 

Q. I will read you that part of the contract which refers to this matter. 
The second clause stipulates : u The whole to be constructed in good 
workmanlike manner, upon the same general plan and specification 
adopted east of the hundredth meridian of longitude. The party of the 
second part shall erect all such necessary depots, machinery, tanks, and 
turntables, and provide all necessary machinery and rolling-stock, at a 
cost of not less than $7,500 per mile in cash, and shall construct all 
necessary side-tracks as may be required by the party of the first part, 
not exceeding six per cent, of the length of the road constructed and to 
be constructed under this contract." Now, is there any other require- 
ment in this contract, or anywhere else, in regard to the amount of roll- 
ing-stock, machinery, and equipment to be furnished, than this stipu- 
lation I have just read 1 ? — A. I think not. 

Q. Now, was not all that was required of Oakes Ames also required 
of the other contractor, who had so far completed his work that it had 
been actually accepted by the Government of the United States? — A. 
I think that the amount of rolling-stock required by the Oakes Ames 
contract had not been put upon it. 



Washing-ton, D. C, January 24, 1873. 

Examination of Oliyer Ames continued. 
By the Chairman: 

Question. W^ere you acting as president of the Union Pacific Kailroad 
Company on the 9th of March, 1871? — Answer. No, sir; I think not. 

Q. Who was president at that time! — A. Mr. Thomas A. Scott, I 
think. I went out on the 8th of March. 

Q. Were you present at a meeting of the board of directors, in 
Boston, on the 9th of March, 1871 ?— A. I went out on the 8th. of March, 
1871. I very probably was present. 

Q. Do you recollect a committee being appointed to make an ex- 
amination into a matter respecting special legal expenses I — A. I think 
I do. I think such a committee was appointed. 

Q. Do you know the character of expenditures that were to be 
considered by that committee? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Had you been in the city of Washington shortly before that meet- 
ing, and when the legislation of 1871 was pending before Congress, 
which grew out of the action of the Secretary of the Treasury with 
reference to the matter of transportation ? — A. No, sir ; I never was in 
Washington when there was any subject up for legislation concern- 
ing the Union Pacific Bailroad Company, that I recollect. I never 
knew anything of any matters connected with legislation for the 
Union Pacific Kailroad Company. 

Q. Do you recollect the committee having made a report in refer- 
ence to these special legal expenses to the board of directors? — A. No, 
sir - 7 I do not think the committee ever made a report ; I have no 
knowledge of any such report. 

Q. Do you know the handwriting of General G. M. Dodge 1 — A. I 
think I do. 

Q. Look at this report, (producing the report put in evidence by E. H. 
Rollins.) — A. I think that paper is not in the handwriting of General 
Dodge. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 261 

Q. Look at the signature. — A. The signature looks like his writing, 
but the body of the paper is not in his handwriting. The signature 
looks to me like his, and yet it is a little plainer than he generally 
writes. 

Q. Whose writing is the body of the report in ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. At this meeting of the board was this matter of special legal ex- 
penses discussed? — A. No, sir; not at all. 

Q. Do you recollect the amount of special legal expenses that were 
under consideration? — A. No, sir: I have not the least knowledge of it 
at all. 

Q. Was the character of these special legal expenses discussed before 
the board at that time ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you any knowledge or information as to what the character 
of that expenditure was, or the purpose for which the money was ex- 
pended ? — A. I have not ; not the least. 

Q. Have you any information on that subject! — A. I have not. 

Q. Was not that matter called in question in any way before the board 
of directors at that time ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You know nothing about it, either personally or from information? — 
A. No, sir; not at all. 

By Mr. SWANN : 

Q. When such large amounts were appropriated by any authority in 
your board, were you not in the habit of considering them? — A. I was 
not an officer of the company at that time. I was not president at the 
time. I went out the da} 7 before. 

Q. Did you go out of the direction ?— A. I was on the board of di- 
rectors. 

Q. You knew nothing of the expenditure of this money ? — A. No, sir; 
not at all. 

Q. Or of the direction which it took? — A. No, sir; I know that we 
paid to Mr. E. E. Hoar, to Mr. Curtis, and to other gentlemen, their fees 
for legal opinions, which were printed at the time, but no large sums of 
money. 

Q. They were not connected with the legal officers of the company ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. They were outside of your regular appointed corps of legal ad- 
visers? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know what your legal expenses were to those who had 
\een permanently appointed by the company ? Can you say what the 
aggregate paid to these lawyers was ? — A. I cannot. 

Q. The ordinary fees of counsel were submitted to your board, I sup- 
pose ? — A. Generally. 

Q. Not always? — A. We have certain local counsel, whom we pay 
regularly so much per month for services. We have Mr. Sidney Bart- 
lett, in Boston, and Emmett, Hammond, and Pomeroy, in New York. 

Q. Do you know any reason why this large appropriation of $126,000 
was not submitted to the board ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you not consider it a rather extraordinary transaction that so 
large an amount of money should have been put into the hands of any- 
body without some knowledge on the part of the board? — A. The ex- 
penses seemed to have been very large. I did not know for what pur- 
pose they were used, and I did not desire to know anything about it. 

Q. Why had you no desire to know anything about it? Would it not 
have been your duty, as a member of the board, to have looked into 
that subject ? — A. It was a committee in which we had confidence, and 



262 CEEDIT MOBILISE A^ T D UNION PACIFIC EAILEOAD. 

we felt that if they bad expended the money they had expended it for 
the best interest of the road. 

Q. But you never heard how it was expended, in any shape or form ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Did that amount ever appear on your books in any way ! — A. I 
suppose it does ; I never examined the books to see. 

Q. Was it not your custom to have entered on the books of the com- 
pany large amounts of this sort "that had been disbursed ! — A. I suppose 
it was on the books of the company. 

Q. But you are not certain tjiat it was entered on the books of the 
company? — A. I did not look to see. x 

Q. You have not any idea as to how that money was disbursed ? — A. 
Not the least. 

Q. You never heard of any member of Congress who had received 
any portion of it ? — A. No, sir ; I do not believe it was ever applied in 
that way at all. 

Q, In what way ? — A. To any member of Congress for services. I 
never heard that it was so applied. 

Q. Would you not have considered it your duty, as a member of the 
board, if you had heard of that transaction, to have protested against 
it?— A. Yes, sir 5 I should. 

Q. And you would have protested against it? — A. Yes, sir ; I should 
have protested against it. 

Q. You never heard of the mode in which this thing was accomplished, 
the circuitous manner in which this money was paid ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. It never came to j r our knowledge ? — A. I had no knowledge of how 
it was used or how it was paid. 

Q. Or how it was proposed to be paid ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Or who paid it? — A. I have no knowledge of anything about it- 

Q. I understand you then to say, as a member of the board of direct- 
ors, that you have no information on the subject, and that this large 
amount of $126,000 was disbursed by the committee, out of the funds 
of the company, in this irregular way, without your knowing anything 
about it? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do I undersand you to say that no member of the board knew 
anything about it? — .A That I do not know. 

Q. You never talked with them on the subject, or never heard the 
thing talked about as an irregular proceeding ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You do not know of any similar case in which money had been 
distriuted to such a large amount without some record having been 
made of it in the minutes of the board ? — A. Charges for legal expenses 
are not made on the minutes of the board. They are made on the books 
of the company. 

A. It seems to be extraordinary that a transaction involving so large 
an amount of money should not have been the subject of some com- 
ment among the members of the board ? — A. There was no discussion 
or no comments in the board while I was present. A committee was 
appointed to settle legal expenses, and that was all. 

Q. You were always regularly in attendance at the meetings of the 
board? — A. 1 was there off and on. My own office was very near, in 
the same building. 

Q. And you never heard of how that money was expended, in any 
shape or form ? — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Shellabaeg-ee : 
Q. When did you cease to be president of the board ! — A. On the 8th 
of March, 1871. ' 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 263 

Q. That was a few days after the act of 3d March, 1871, which required 
the deduction of but one-half the earnings of the company for Govern- 
ment transportation ? — A. Yes. 

Q. And you were president of the board at the date when that act 
was pending in Congress ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Who constituted the committee that came to Washington to look 
after your interests in relation to that act ? — A. I do not recollect. 

Q. Was not G. M. Dodge one of the committee ?— A. G. M.Dodge 
was here. I do not think there had been any special committee ap- 
pointed by the board. He was a director in the company at that time, 
and was here looking after our interests. 

Q. Do you know that funds were put in the hands of some of those 
gentlemen who were connected with your road for the purpose of being 
expended here in the interest of the company during the pendency of 
that legislation ? — A. ]So, sir; I do not. 

Q. Do you know that it was not so? — A. I think it was not so. 

Q. Why do you think it was not so ? — A. Because I think that if it 
were so I should have known it previously to my going out of the office 
as president. 

Q. These special legal expenses mentioned in the report that has 
been showu, and wkich report has Mr. Dodge's name, which you say is 
genuine % — A. I think it is genuine. 

Q. These special legal services were rendered at the date of that re- 
port? — A. I presume they were. I do not know what the amount of 
them was. I only heard, when the resolution was adopted, that it was 
$126,000. 

Q. State to the committee what special legal services were rendered 
to your company that were not rendered by the gentlemen you have 
named in a former answer. — A. I cannot tell you anything about it. I 
do not know anything. 

Q. Did any member of your direction, either yourself as its presi- 
dent, or any other member, know what these special legal services 
were % — A. I suppose they may have known. I do not know anything 
about it. I was not here at the time. 

Q. My question is not intended to ask you precisely what the services 
were ; but what they were about % — A. That I cannot tell you. I do not 
know r anything about it. I suppose it w T as for the purpose of getting 
favorable legislation. 

Q. Was there no report, either verbally or in writing, at any time 
rendered to your board as to who performed these special legal ser- 
vices? — A. Not to my knowledge ; I have never seen such a report. 

Q. In a transaction of this magnitude, had it been discussed in the 
board, you would have been apt to remember something about it, would 
you not? — A. I think I should. It was not discussed in the board, I 
am very positive. 

Q. Can you tell the committee why it never became a matter of 
action, or of consideration, on the part of your board, as to the intrust- 
ing of these services to any board or committee — I mean these services in 
looking after this favorable legislation which you spoke of a moment 
ugo? — A. Our board of directors — that is, myself and the majority of 
us — had always looked to Mr. Oakes Ames to look after our matters at 
Washington, and believed he would do whatever might be necessary 
for the interest of the road. 

Q. He was then a member of Congress ? — A. He was. 

Q. The effect, then, of what you design to say is, that your under- 
standing, and your board's understanding was, that these special ser- 



264 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

vices were rendered in behalf of securing legislation in the interest of 
your company? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. But you can give no detail as to whom the money was paid to, nor 
by whom it was paid, nor what the services rendered by the lawyers 
were? — A. No, sir; I cannot. 

Q. Can you tell the committee whether the money which this report 
orders to be paid was paid before this transaction of the 9th of March, 
and that this was merely a method of settling without vouchers for 
it; or was the money paid over to them in obedience to the report 
of the committee ? — A. I think it was paid over to them in obedience 
to the report of the committee. 

Q. Then any funds that may have been advanced before in behalf 
of these special legal services were not furnished by the Union Pa- 
cific Kailroad Company, but were furnished by somebody else? — A, 
Yes, sir. 

Q. And you paid the money which re-imbursed them, if they had 
expended these funds before that? — A. Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You spoke of services rendered to the company by Mr. E. R. Hoar. 
You refer to the ex- Attorney-General ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were any of the services which he rendered in the nature of an 
argument which he made to the Attorney-General? — A. Yes, sir; a 
written argument. 

Q. And not an opinion rendered to the company ? — A. No, sir ; it 
was for an argument ; it was for services rendered in his office at 
Boston. 

Q. The services that were rendered by ex-Attorney-General Hoar and 
Mr. Curtis, and the others whom you have referred to, were not em- 
braced in this $126,000 ?— A. I think not. 

Q. You said, in answer to an interrogatory put to you by Mr. Swann, 
that you had no desire to know what this was for. Why had you no 
desire to know what this money was expended for ? — A. I did not care 
to know anything about it. I did not feel any interest in it. 

Q. Why did you not care to know ? — A. I can only say that I did not 
care to know. 

Q. What was it that you did not care to know ? — A. I did not care to 
know anything about it. 

Q. I should like to know why you did not care to know what dispo- 
sition was to be made of this large sum of money? — A. I felt just in 
this way about it : that the committee which had been here and had 
expended that money was a committee of responsible gentlemen, and 
that I did not care to inquire as to how they spent it. I was perfectly 
satisfied that they had spent it for the best interests of the road. 

Q. Did you not regard the expenditure of that money as a question- 
able transaction, and was not that the reason why you did not care to 
know of the disposition they had made of it? — A. Not exactly so. 

Q. Then please to explain. — A. If it were a questionable transaction, 
I, of course, should not have wanted to inquire into it at all; because I 
should not like to know that the company had employed money in any 
way that was questionable. I had great confidence in the men that 
were appointed to look after the interests of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company here, and I felt that they were acting entirely in the interests 
of the railroad, and would not spend any money wastefully or wrongfully. 

Q. Still you were a director in the board of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company ? — A. Yes, sir 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 265 

Q. And $126,000 of the money of the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
was being paid out, and you say you did not care to know what had 
been done with it. Now I would like a distinct answer to my question 
why it was that you did not care to know ? — A. If any portion of that 
money had been employed wrongfully, then I certainly should not have 
wanted to know it. 

Q. Was it not because you were apprehensive or suspicious that it 
might be learned that there had been some improper use of that money, 
that you did not care to know or to investigate where it had gone ?— A. 
I do not know but that was the fact. I do not think, however, that it 
was employed wrongfully. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. You have just now stated in substance that if the moneys were em- 
ployed wrongfully or improperly, then you would not want to know it. 
Am I right in understanding your answer in that way ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now I wish to ask you this question : If the moneys of your road 
were sought to be expended for the purpose of corrupting legislation^ 
would you not, as the president of that road, want to know it, and want 
to prohibit the payment of the men who had spent it corruptly ? — A. 
Why, certainly I should have wanted to prohibit the use of it corruptly. 
But my confidence in the people was such that I did not believe they 
would use it corruptly. 

Q, Who were the people who used it J ? — A. When I say " used it,' 7 1 
mean the people who had the management of our interests here. 

Q. Who were they? — A. Mr. Oakes Ames and General Dodge were 
directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company at that time, and I 
think they were here looking after the interests of the road. 

Q. These were the gentlemen in whom you had the confidence you 
have expressed f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. If you have as fully answered my question as you desire, I am con- 
tent ; but I will repeat it so that you may fully answer. You have said 
that if the money was improperly expended, then you, as an officer of 
that road, would not want to know it, thereby meaning, as I understand 
it, that you would pay the money without knowing whether it was used 
corruptly or not, and would, for that reason, not want to know. My 
question is whether that is your answer — that the reason why you did 
not want to know was, that if the money was paid corruptly you would 
want to pay it without knowing that it had been used corruptly? — 
A. I would not have wanted to pay it if it had been used corruptly, but 
my confidence in the people who had the management of our interests 
here was such that I did not believe they would use it corruptly. 

Q. Then, why not investigate the matter, and require the ordinary 
vouchers, showing the particular services rendered, to be presented as 
is done in other cases in your company, and know all about it before you 
made the payment ? — A. I suppose that was done by the committee ap- 
pointed to look after that. I was not on that committee, and was not 
an officer of the road whose duty it was to look after the vouchers. 

Q. Can you point out any other case in the history of the company 
where legal services were paid for without the designation to the com- 
pany of the persons who rendered the services or of the services ren- 
dered '?— A. I do not know of any. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. When was this committee appointed J ? — A. At the meeting of the 
9th of March. 



266 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. You were present at the appointment of the committee?— A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Have you known of any other single instance, in which a com- 
mittee had been appointed by your company, where the board gave it 
unlimited power over the funds of the company to the extent of $126,000, 
or any other amount ? — A. I have not. 

Q. Giving unlimited power to the committee to spend that money 
without being accountable to the board — you are not aware of any other 
instance ? — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. After the execution of the Oakes Ames contract it was assigned 
to this board of trustees, for the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier, 
and at that time, or thereabouts, Mr. Ames was released by the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company from personal liability under the contract, 
was he%iot? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the trustees undertook to engage' that it should be fulfilled — 
that is, the engagement of these trustees was substituted by the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company for the engagement of Mr. Oakes Ames ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, what in fact, after this arrangement was made, were his rela- 
tions to the construction of the road — that is what I want to get at. 
He remained a party largely interested by reason of his stock in the 
Credit Mobilier, did he not ? — A. Yes, sir ; and of his stock in the Union 
Pacific Railroad also. 

Q. Now, what did he do — what was it that was expected by his asso- 
ciates in this contract of Mr. Oakes Ames after that, as his share of the 
general looking out for the general interests of the party? — A. He was 
to do nothing more than any other stockholder of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company. He assigned his entire right in the contract. 

Q. But he was a stockholder of the Credit Mobilier? — A. Yes, sir; 
and of the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. Had he any special authority? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Had he any authority to dispose of stock in the Credit Mobilier 
after that time? — A. No, sir. 

Q. I see that he held some stock and that you held some stock ; was 
that stock held by you and him as a joint transaction in fact? — A! Stock 
standing in my name was held jointly by us. The stock standing in his 
name was his own stock. 

Q. How came the joint stock to be in your name as an individual ? — A. 
We started in that way. He thought it would be better for me to hold 
it, and I did so. 

Q. There seems to have been three modes of entry of that stock on 
the books — Oliver Ames, Oakes Ames, and Oakes Ames, trustee ? — A. 
Yes. 

Q. I want to know whether Mr. Oakes Ames, after that time, had any 
office or duty in connection with the contract 1 — A. He had none — no 
more than any other stockholder of the company, excepting that he 
owned the largest interest in the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company. 

Q. I do not know whether you and he have your property pretty 
much as common property, or whether you have separate property and 
interests to a large extent? — A. Oar property's largely together. 

Q. Suppose your brother Oakes had lost heavily on this stock which 
stood in his name as an individual, is the arrangement between you 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 267 

and him such that you would have come in and assumed half or other 
share of that loss in fact f — A. Yes. 

Q. Then you regard the stock held by Oliver Ames and Gates Ames 
both as really joint stock for all practical purposes % — A. Yes. 

Q. How was it with this stock that was entered " Oakes Ames, trus- 
tee V — A. That I do not know anything about. I had no interest in 
the stock standing on the books iu his name or as trustee. 

Q. Then I am afraid 5*011 have misunderstood me. I asked you 
whether, if your brother had lost heavily on the stock that stood in his 
name individually, the relations between you is such that you would 
have come in and shared in that loss ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. Any more than if it had stood in the name of John Brown or any 
entire stranger to you f — A. No, sir. 

Q. You answered before that you would have shared in the loss.— A. 
I understood your question to be in reference to the property which we 
held jointly. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You were president of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company on the 
4th of August, 1869 l—A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know of a note for $2,000,000 having been given on the 
4th of August, 1869, by the Union Pacific Bailroad Company? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. State for what consideration that note was given ? — A. As the bal- 
ance of the account due to the Credit Mobilier on the first 247 miles of 
the road built. There was that amount due on that contract. 

Q. How was that amount ascertained on the 4th of August, 1869? — 
A. It always stood on the books of the company as due. 

Q. On the books of what company % — A. On the books of the Union 
Pacific Bailroad Company. 

Q. Can you show on the books of the Union Pacific Bailroad Com- 
pany where that balance has stood in favor of the Credit Mobilier? — 
A. I am not familiar with the books, but that has always been the re- 
port — that we were in debt to the Credit Mobilier on the Hoxie contract 
to that amount. 

Q. Did you make any investigation of the books at the time that this 
note for $2,000,000 was given % — A. The books were investigated at that 
time, and that balance was found due b^ the Union Pacific Bailroad 
Company. 

Q. Who presented the books at the time that note was given % — A. 
Mr. Williams was treasurer of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company, but 
I think Mr. Ham made an examination of the books at that time. Mr. 
Ham was the book-keeper of the Credit Mobilier, and came over to 
Boston. The account was made up and that note was given. That 
note was given for a specific purpose — to guarantee certain parties who 
became obligated for the payment of any sum that might be found due 
to the State of Pennsylvania in a suit that had been brought against 
the Credit Mobilier for taxes on dividends. 

Q. In whose hands was that note placed ? — A. In the hands of Elisha 
Atkins. 

Q. Was there any considerable amount of extra work done under the 
Hoxie contract?— A. I think not. 

Q. If there was any amount of extra work done I presume it was 
estimated by the engineer, and reported to the Union Pacific Bailroad 
Company % — A. Yes, sir ; I presume so. I do not think there was any 
extra work done. I do not know of any. 



268 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

Q. Did you ever bear of any extra work having been done under the 
Hoxie contract in addition to the contract price that was stipulated for ? — 
A. No ; I was not in tbe company at tbe time of tbe Hoxie contract, 
except during tbe last part of it. It has always been my idea that the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company owed under that Hoxie contract to the 
Credit Mobilier about $2,000,000. 

Q. Tbe Hoxie contract was for $50,000 a mile ? — A. Yes. 

Q. And tbe length of road covered by it was 246 miles and a frac- 
tion % — A. Yes, sir.- 

Q. Calculating it at 247 miles, $50,000 a mile would make $12,350,- 
000 ?— A. Yes. 

Q ; Look at tbe account of the Hoxie contract in the ledger of tbe 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company and see whether, on the 30th of 
March, 1867, there had not been paid under the Hoxie contract $12,- 
550,278.94? — A. (After consulting the ledger.) It seems so by the 
book." 

Q. That was more than the Hoxie contract would come to at $50,000 
a mile ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then, how will you account for tbe fact that, on the 4th of August, 
1869, an additional sum of $2,000,000 was charged up to that Hoxie con- 
tract? — A. I do not understand it. 

Q. Is it possible that under tbe Hoxie contract there could have been 
performed work in excess of the contract price to the amount of $2,000,- 
000? — A. I am not able to answer that question. 

Q. If there had been paid on the 30th of March, 1867, $12,550,278.94, 
that would be, as I understand you, an excess of the contract price ? — 
A. Yes. 

Q. Then have you any mode of explaining how it came that two years 
afterward an additional sum of $2,000,000 was added to the cost of that 
contract ? — A. I am not able to say. I know that the accounts w ere 
made up at the time that note was given. 

Q. If this sum of money had been paid up to tbe 30th of March, 1867, 
and if this note of $2,000,000 be paid, it will make the Hoxie contract 
cost the Union Pacific Eailroad Company $14,550,278.94 ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Which is more than $2,000,000 in excess of the contract price as 
appears by the books? — A. Yes, sir. I know that at the time this note 
was given it was stated that there was due under the Hoxie contract an 
amount equal to the amount of that note ; and that note was given for 
that specific purpose and is now in the hands of Mr. Atkins. The pur- 
pose for which it was given has expired, as the suit has been decided, 
and nothing has come of the note. 

Q. But it is still outstanding as a debt against the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company, is it not ? — A. Yes. 

Q. And if it is paid it will go to the stockholders of the Credit Mo- 
bilier, will it not ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Or, in other words, it will go to the Credit Mobilier as a part of the 
assets of that corporation ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When this note was given did you take the statement of Mr. Ham 
as to the indebtedness of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company to the 
Credit Mobilier ? — A. Mr. Ham and tbe treasurer of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company, Mr. Williams, made up that account. 

Q. What official relations did Mr. Ham bear toward these two cor- 
porations at that time? — A. At that time he bore no relations to tbe 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 

Q. What relations did he bear to the Credit Mobilier ?— A. He was 
treasurer of the Credit Mobilier. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 269 

Q. Then in giving this note for $2,000,000, the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company took" the statement of an officer of the Credit Mobilier? — A. 
The treasurers of both companies looked over their accounts. 

Q. What interest had Mr. John M. S. Williams in the Credit Mobilier 
at that time ? — A. He was, I think, a small stockholder in the Credit 
Mobilier, and also in the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. He had a pecuniary interest in the Credit Mobilier? — A. Yes, and 
a like one in the Union Pacific Railroad Company. I will say in ref- 
erence to that note that Mr. Atkins holds that note, and is ready to de- 
stroy it or give it up at any time ; and the account can stand on the 
books just as it is now. He wanted to destroy the note as the purpose 
for which he held it has been accomplished, and, if the account on 
the books is correct, then we owe the money on the books of the com- 
pany. 

Q. But nevertheless the Union Pacific Railroad Company, as I under- 
stand you, by the execution of the note has recognized the fact that it 
owes the Credit Mobilier $2,000,000 on that old Hoxie contract ? — A. 
Yes. 

Q. And so recognizes it still, I suppose % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then why should the note be given up if you owe the money? — A. 
There is no reason why, perhaps; but then the thing would stand in 
precisely the same position as it does now. The understanding at the 
time that note was given was that the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
did owe under the Hoxie contract $2,000,000. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. You were one of the trustees of the Credit Mobilier stockholders ? — 
A. Yes, sir ; I am one of the trustees in the Oakes Ames contract. 

Q. For the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier %— A. Of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company. I do not recognize the Credit Mobilier at 
all in executing the trust as trustee. 

Q. Your duties as trustee- were to collect and pay over the profits on 
the Oakes Ames contract to such stockholders of the Credit Mobilier 
holding stock in the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and giving the 
required irrevocable power of attorney in proportion to their stock ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, then, you were a trustee for these persons, and the persons 
so described were all the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier, were they 
not ! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. There was not any stockholder of the Credit Mobilier who did not 
come within that definition — first, holder of stock in the Union Pacific 
Railroad Compauy, and second, having signed that irrevocable proxy? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Then the fact is that you did divide the money among the stock- 
holders of the Credit Mobilier in proportion to their stock % — A. Yes. 

Q. Now, if the Union Pacific Railroad Company owed the Credit 
Mobilier that $2,000,000, why did you not, in the exercise of that trust, 
collect it and pay it over % — A. The trustees had no authority over it. 
The Credit Mobilier had the claim against the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company. 

Q. Why did not the Credit Mobilier do it % — A. That is a question to 
be asked of its officers. 

Q. But it is one for the stockholders, of whom you arc a pretty large 
one ? — A. 1 am also an equal stockholder in the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company. 

Q. I ask you, in your capacity as stockholder in the' Union Pacific 



270 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Eailroad Company, why you did not pay it, and in your capacity as 
stockholder in the Credit Mobilier, why you did not collect it? — A. The 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company did not have the money to pay it. 

Q. Could it not have paid that $2,000,000, if it had been called for at 
any time during the last two or three years ? — A. Very probably it 
might. 

Q. You were president of the road and know. I put it to you as a 
practical question, could the Union Pacific Eailroad Company have paid 
that $2,000,000 at any time since it fell due, if it had been called upon 
to do it ? — A. That I cannot answer. 

Q. Do you believe it could ? — A. I believe it might have paid it] 

Q. Do you believe it could pay it to-morrow if demanded ? — A* No, 
sir. 

Q. Could it have paid it at any time within the last twelve months if 
demanded t — A. I do not think it could have paid it without making a 
loan from somebody else. 

Q. Do you believe it could make a loan of $2,000,000 from somebody 
else ? — A. I think it could. 

Q. Unless sustained by the individual credit of some of its directors 
or of somebody interested in keeping up its credit, do you think the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company could have paid that note on the 
strength of its own resources without availing itself of other means'? — 
A. No, sir ; I think not. 

Q. Then, if that was the case, how did that $2,000,000 become secu- 
rity ? Was it good security for the $2,000,000 to the persons to whom 
it was delivered ? — A. It was prospectively so. 

Q. What do you mean by that? Be good enough to explain it a lit- 
tle more fully. — A. Almost all of us who were interested in the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company believe that it is going to be a successful and 
prosperous line, and that it will make money hereafter enough to pay 
the interest on all its bonds, as it is now doing, and will be able not 
long hence to pay a dividend on its stock; and we believe that prospect- 
ively the Union Pacific Eailroad Company will be able to pay all its 
debts — not to-day. 

Q. Then you believe that the Union Pacific Eailroad Company is not 
able to pay its debts to-day without the aid of the individual credit that 
is interested in keeping up its credit ? — A. I should hardly want to say 
that. It might affect the credit of the company for me to say that. 

Mr. Hoar. I know that, and I would be very sorry to affect the 
credit of the company, and I would not put such a question lightly ; but 
it is very important for this committee to know what are the resources 
and credit of this company now with reference to the Government claim. 
You are aware that the Government claims that it is entitled to receive 
the interest as it is paid, while the company takes a different view of 
the law, and it is important for us to know what are the resources of 
the company. It may be important to us to know, on the one side, 
whether the insisting on this claim, if it be valid, would make the com- 
pany bankrupt ; and it is important for us to know, on the other side, 
whether it is likely to be paid hereafter. I want to know, therefore, 
what your belief is as to its resources. Make your answer to this ques- 
tion, and make it as fully as you think the interests of the company re- 
quire you to do; whether, in your judgment, the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company is able to pay its outstanding debts in the course of 
business without the aid of outside credit ? 

The Witness. I would prefer not to answer that question at all. 

Mr. Hoar. I will not take the responsibility alone of urging it. I 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 271 

would make known to you, however, that the treasurer of your com- 
pany does not think that it is, and has so testified ; and, if you think 
proper to qualify that opinion, it seems to be a good time now for you 
to do so. (To the coinmitte,) I will not press that question any further, 
but I will move that the witness be at liberty to make any explanatory 
statement to the committee hereafter during the examination on this 
subject that he may desire to make. 

The Chairman. That is the privilege which the committee accorded 
to the treasurer, Mr. Rollins. 

The vote was taken, and it was so ordered. 

The Witness. I would have no objection to making an answer in 
writing to the committee, bat I would hardly like to have it go oat. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. You stated yesterday that you were not familiar with the books 
of the company. I desire, however, to attract your attention to an 
entry on the journal of the contractors of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company, on page 18 — an entry bearing date 3d January, 18GS. Please 
to read it ? — A. (Reading.) 

" Credit Mobilier of America, Dr. 

To cash for on account of agreement with them for contract, 
$1,104,000." 

Q. See whether that same item appears on the ledger of the same 
date. If it does, read the ledger entry in relation to it? — A. (Looking 
at the book.) It does appear under the same date. The entry is — 

a By Credit Mobilier of America, on account of agreement for con- 
tract, $1,101,000." 

Q. At that time you were the president of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company? — A. I was. 

Q. Do you know what that item is for ? — A. For moneys advanced 
by the Credit Mobilier to the Union Pacific Railroad Company, on ac- 
count of the contract. 

Q. On account of what contract? — A. The Ames contract. The 
Credit Mobilier agreed to advance that sum of money. 

Q. Was the Credit Mobilier furnishing money at that time to the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. Yes ; the capital of the Credit 
Mobilier went all into the construction of the Union Pacific Railroad. 
What little there is left of it is not of much account. 

Q. Cau you tell in what way that money was advanced by the Credit 
Mobilier to tUe Union Pacific Railroad Company; was it all in one 
item ? — A. I presume not. 

Q. It is all entered in the journal as one item, and is carried into the 
ledger in the same way ; do you know whether that was money that 
was actually furnished to the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. I 
cannot tell you. I suppose the book-keepers of the company could make 
all these items out. 

Q. You are not able to make any further explanation in regard to 
it ?— A. Ko, sir. 

Q. On that day there was a dividend declared by the trustees of the 
stockholders of the Credit Mobilier, was there not ?— A. That I do not 
recollect now. 

Q. Look at the record and see? — A. (After examining the record.} 
Yes, sir. 

Q. What was that dividend? — A. That was a dividend under the 



272 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Ames contract; al] these dividends were under the Ames contract and 
were made by the trustees. 

Q. Have you the proxies that were given to the board of trustees pur- 
suant to the assignment of the Ames contract to vote the six-tenths of 
the stock % — A. No, sir. 

Q. Where are the proxies f — A. They were given up at each voting ; 
1 think the last time they were voted was.by Mr. Bates ; I voted them 
once. 

Q. Do you know where these proxies are f — A. They were filed with 
the election papers probably 5 at the time the votes are given the proxies 
are put in. 

Q. Is it a fact that the stockholders in the Credit Mobilier who owned 
stock in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company did give proxies to vote 
six-tenths of their stock? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And these proxies were used by these trustees in voting at the 
elections of the Union Pacific Railroad Company? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did these proxies cover stock enough to control the election of di- 
rectors! — A. They did. 

Q. For what length of time? — A. I think for two elections, in 1867 
and 1868 ; that is my impression. 

Q. Did the stockholders sign the agreement that was contemplated 
by the Cakes Ames contract on its assignment f — A. They did. 

By Mr. Sixellabarger : 

Q. You stated that the proxies at each voting were given up ? — A. 
When we voted we handed in our proxies ; I voted these proxies, 1 think 
in 1867, and handed them in to the inspector of election. 

Q. Where is the irrevocable instrument of proxy that was delivered 
to the seven trustees ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. Was there a separate paper of that sort which read as giving an 
irrevocable proxy f — A. Yes. 

Q. Where is that paper or those papers? — A. I cannot tell you where 
they are. 

Q. Did you ever see them? — A. If there was any such paper given, I, 
of course, saw it. 

Q. You signed such an instrument, did you not? — A. Yes, sir. ' 

Q. Did all the others sign an instrument of that character along with 
you, or was there a separate instrument executed by each person giving 
the irrevocable proxy ? — A. My recollection is that we all signed the 
same paper. 

Q. Where is that paper ? — A. That I cannot tell you. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. Is that a part of the papers belonging to this board of trustees ? — 
A. I think it is. 

Q. That is where it properly belongs ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Have you ever made search for it? — A. I never -have. I think 
that this thing continued but two years — during the Oakes Ames con- 
tract. 

Q. Was not the same thing repeated in the Davis contract ? — A. I 
think not. 

Q. Was it not stipulated for? — A. I think it was. I think the Davis 
contract was to be subject to all the provisions of the Oakes Ames con- 
tract 

Q. Do you know whether such an instrument was executed with 
reference to thu Davis contract, after the Ames contract had termi- 



CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 273 

iiated ? — A, My impression is that there was no such instrument executed 
under the Davis contract. 

Q. Were there monthly estimates made up by the engineer, and re- 
ported to the board of trustees 1 — A. Yes, sir. 

The Witness. In regard to the questions yesterday, in reference to 
why the 138 miles put into the Oakes Ames contract had been so put in, 
and, rather carrying the idea^ that it was not a favorable thing for the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company, I have a statement in my hand of the 
cost of the road per mile west of the one hundredth meridian, which was 
built when the Oakes Ames contract was made, as follows: 

Statement of cost of road west of one hundredth meridian per mile, built 
when the Oakes Ames contract was made. 

Cost of road as per statement made. $27, 500 

Equipment, &c, to be furnished by Oakes Ames 7, 500 

Cost of road 35, 000 

What was received : 

$16,000 in Government bonds, at 98 .- . . $15, 680 

$16,000 in first-mortgage bonds, at 90 14, 400 

$12,000 in stock, at 30 3, 600 

33,680 

Gain to Union Pacific Eailroad by including this road in con- 
tract. . . N 1, 320 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Who made out this statement ? — A. I made it out this morning. 

Q. Is that all the statement which you desire to make at present? — 
A. That is all the statement that I desire to make in reference to that 
point. 

Q. You say " cost of road as per statement made." What have you 
reference to ? — A. That is the statement made, as I understood you, by 
Mr. Durant or Mr. Crane, that it cost $27,500 a mile. 

Q. But that included $7,500 per mile as equipment ? — A. It included 
only such equipment as was on it, and not such equipment as Oakes 
Ames was to put on it. 

Q. That is the basis on which you start, that the road had cost $27,500 
a mile ! — A. Yes. 

Q. And to that you acid $7,500 a mile for equipment? — A. Yes. 

Q. Was there any record of these estimates kept in any way by the 
board of trustees ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Can you turn me to the record ? — A. I do not think I can. I be- 
lieve I have got a lot of them here, (handing a package of papers to the 
chairman.) 

Q. Have you got all the estimates here ? — A. A large number of them 
are here. 

Q. So that, if the equipment that was requisite was already on it, this 
statement would be erroneous to the extent of $7,500 a mile, would it 
not i — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You say you got 120 shares of stock, and you put that down at 30 
cents to the dollar i— A. Yes. 

Q. Was it true that the stock was paid for, dollar for dollar? — A. The 
Union Pacific Eailroad Comp; ny received dollar for dollar for it in the 
contract. 

18cm 



274 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. In what way 1 — A. In the amount that the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company owed under the contract. It owed the contractors for the 
construction of the road. 

Q. This 120 shares of stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, 
that was given per mile, had it ever been paid up before that time % — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. Then the contractors were the original subscribers to that stock, 
were they not ! — A. They were. 

Q. Then, as original subscribers for this stock, were they not bound to 
pay to the Union Pacific Railroad Company $12,000 ? — A. They were. 

Q. The original stock was to be paid up dollar for dollar, according to 
the charter of the company ? — A. Yes. 

Q. These stockholders became the original subscribers f! — A. Yes. 

Q. Then, by virtue of this operation, which you have given on this 
statement that you have now presented to the committee, the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company, instead of getting $12,000 for this stock, 
only got $3,600°?— A. It got $12,000 according to that statement. 

Q. The Union Pacific Railroad only got 30 cents on the dollar instead 
of dollar for dollar % — A. Why so % Were not the parties entitled to 
profit on their contract % They made a contract to build that road for 
$42,000 per mile, and that is what they received for it. They received 
so much in bonds and so much in stock; and that makes up $42,000 per 
mile which they were to receive. Now the contractors turn round and 
say " This stock is not worth dollar for dollar to us.*' Of course it was 
only actually worth to the contractors what they got for it. 

Q. You present this in justification or by way of explanation of the 
fact that the company had let this road at $42,000 per mile, which had 
been already constructed. Now you know the fact that the law requires 
that the stock of the company shall be paid for dollar for dollar? — A 
Yes. 

Q. And you furthermore state that these contractors were original 
subscribers for the stock % — A. Yes. 

Q. And you state, in addition to that, that instead of the company 
getting dollar for dollar on the one hundred and twenty shares of stock 
per mile, it only got 30 cents % — A. No, I say that the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company got $12,000 for the one hundred and twenty shares. 

Q. Did the Union Pacific Railroad Company get dollar for dollar for 
that stock ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What way % — A. In paying for the work at the contract price. 

By Mr. SlIELLABARGER: 

Q. I understood you to say that when you came to settle with your 
contractors at the contract price, say $42,000 a mile, you found that the 
first-mortgage bonds and the Government bonds yielded a certain 
amount of that $42,000 %— A. Yielded $30,000. 

Q. Then you had a residuum to make up to pay the contract price of 
$42,000 a mile, and that residuum was made up by the issue of stock to 
the contractor % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the amount of stock which you issued to the contractor to 
pay that residue was such an amount as was required to make up the 
residue, at the rate of 30 cents on the dollar °? — A. No ; enough to make 
up the residue to $42,000 a mile. We have already received $30,000, 
and now we want $12,000 more to fill the" contract. The contractor 
takes that stock at $12,000. Now. what that stock is actually worth to 
the contractor is the question — what he can sell it for in the market. 

Q. How much stock was issued to the contractor for the payment of 



CREDIT M0B1LIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 275 

that $12,000 ? — A. Twelve thousand dollars' worth of stock — one hun- 
dred and twenty shares. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. This $27,000 per mile was to be paid by Mr. Oakes Ames to the 
previous contractor ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The company had in fact paid it, but it is charged as if it is a 
payment by him ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Did the previous contractor bind himself to take the same propor- 
tion of. stock and bonds as Oakes Ames did? Was the previous con- 
tractor to have first-mortgage bonds and Government bonds as far as 
they went under the Hoxie contract I — A. He w r as, I believe, to a cer- 
tain extent ; I do not recollect the precise proportion. 

Q. The point of my question is this : Leaving out any point about 
the depreciation of first-mortgage bonds and Government bonds, if you 
had contracted with Mr. Hoxie to pay him $27,000 a mile, and he was 
to be paid pay in these things that were nearly or quite as good as 
cash; and then you contracted with Oakes Ames to' pay him $42,000 a 
mile, of which only $27,000 was to be received in something as good a's 
cash, and the balance in your stock which was only worth 30 per cent., 
then you would be entirely justifiable in your explanation. That is, you 
would show that the company had gained and not lost by the transaction. 
The only objection to that proceeding would be that you were only get- 
ting really 30 cents on the dollar for your stock, while the act requires 
the stock to be full paid in cash. Now, how was it on the Hoxie con- 
tract, do you recollect? — A. I do not recollect. I only say that the 
Union Pacific Kailroad Company did a good thing in this. 

Q. In other words, you say that Mr. Oakes Ames added, after that 
contract was made, $7,500 or $8,000 a mile in actual cash value ? — A. 
That he was obliged under the contract to do. I do not know how much 
lie put on. I am not able to say. 

Q. And that, although in form he got $42,000 a mile, yet in substance 
there was charged to him $27,000 a mile, which the company had already 
paid out, and that the balance, amounting to $15,000 a mile, which he 
would be actually entitled to receive, was substantially all or nearly all 
paid in stock that was only worth 30 cents on the dollar? — A. Yes. 

Q. Therefore, in reality, what you paid him over and above the 
$27,000 a mile did not amount in cash value to more than he put in ? — 
A. Yes ; that is my point. 

Q. That leaves you, then, to explain what I asked you yesterday — that 
is, whether you were not issuing your capital stock, which was required 
to be paid for in cash, to a person who only understood that he was pay- 
ing 30 cents on the dollar for it, and that you were only getting what 
you understood was only worth 30 cents on the dollar? — A.- 1 do not 
admit that the contract was not a strict contract, or that we did not pay 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company the full value of the stock. 

Q. But if the Union Pacific Kailroad Company was entitled to receive 
for their stock $100 in cash for each share, and had no business to part 
with it on any other terms, then the explanation you have now made 
will not stand fire. — A. Certainly. 

Q. How many shares of stock did you deliver per mile ? — A. One 
hundred and twenty shares— $12,000 worth. 

Q. You were bound bylaw to treat that as being as good as $12,000? — 
A. Yes. 

Q. Then, what did you get for that one hundred and twenty shares? — 



276 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

A. The Union Pacific Railroad Company got $12,000; what the con- 
tractor got I do not know. 

Q. But I thought that the Union Pacific Railroad Company only got 
what was worth $7,500 or thereabout ? — A. We got what was agreed on 
in the contract, and under that contract we were obliged to pay the 
price specified in it. 

Q. Now, in order to make your answer a good one, you have got to 
claim that the $12,000 of Union Pacific Railroad stock which you parted 
with was only worth 30 cents on the dollar to either party in the trans- 
action. — A. That is true in relation to Mr. Oakes Ames. 

Q. So that the legality and propriety of your action all comes to the 
question of the legality and propriety of issuing stock nominally at par 
to a contractor who treated it as only worth 30 cents on the dollar, al- 
though he called it par, and making up to him in the same contract the 
balance of the sum that he was to receive in cash or. its equivalent ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That is the substance of it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Are these estimates that you have handed to me all the estimates 
that were returned to the board of trustees ? — A. I think they are j I 
did not examine them. They are estimates of the engineers. 

Q. You found them among the papers of the board of trustees % — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. This board of trustees had no existence, I suppose, until the as- 
signment of the Oakes Ames contract ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. How happens it that the monthly estimates that were made prior 
to that time were returned to that board of trustees ? — A. I think they 
were not. 

Q. I find one here, dated the 31st of July, 1867 ; and the board of 
trustees had no existence until the 17th of October, 1867. — A. It must be 
a mistake. 

Mr. Oakes Ames. That may apply to the portion of the road that 
was constructed before my contract. 

The Chairman. (To witness.) What do you say in regard to that % 

The Witness. (After examining it.) I have nothing to say in regard 
to it. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. You said something awhile ago in relation to its not being ex- 
pected that the contractor should take the stock at more than it was 
worth, and that it was worth then about 30 cents on the dollar. — A. I 
did not mean to be so understood. 

Q. You spoke about the depreciated value of the stock at the time, 
and you spoke of it for some reason on which you acted in that transac- 
tion. What was it that you did say that grew out of the fact that the 
stock was worth only 30 cents on the dollar at the time of the contract 1 — 
A. There was no market value for the stock at the time of the contract. 
I do not suppose that it could have been sold at all. 

Q. But Mr. Oakes Ames, when he took the contract, agreed to take 
a portion of his pay in stock ? — A. Yes ; at par. 

Q. Now, what I want to get at is this: Whether, in letting the con- 
tract at the prices named in that contract," the prices of the lettings 
were fixed with reference to the value of the stock as it then existed, 
and whether those prices were made higher, owing to the fact that the 
pay was to be taken in stock at par, which stock was not worth, as you 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 277 

have said, anything roucb. — A. I may say that it was. The contract 
was taken with the idea that the stock was not worth par. 

Q. And the price of the letting was increased accordingly ? — A. Yes, 
on the idea that the stock was not worth par. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you recollect the date of the last monthly estimate ? — A. I do 
not. 

Q. Do you recollect the number of miles, in all, in Oakes Ames's con- 
tract! — A. Six hundred and sixty-seven miles, extending to the 914th 
mile. 

By Mr. Shell abarger. 

Q. We went over the books yesterday, and saw the method in which 
the stock was issued, under the various resolutions of the board. I 
now want to ask a few questions in relation to that general part of the 
case. The stock that was issued to the contractors, or to the seven 
trustees, was for that amount of the work done which exceeded the 
proceeds of the two classes of bonds, was it not ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was all the stock that was issued simply for the excess of what 
the contract came to above what was yielded by the sale of the two 
classes of bonds f — A. Yes, sir. All the stock that was issued by the 
company was issued in payment of the contract for what was due above 
what contractors received from the sale of the bonds. 

Q. So that that portion of the work that was paid for by the proceeds 
of the two classes of bonds was never represented by any stock issued ? 
— A. No, sir. 

Q. In making your contracts for the letting of the road, you stated 
awhile ago that you took into consideration the real value of the bonds, 
and that the contractors added the depreciation of the stock in which 
they would get their pay below par to the contract price at which the 
road was let as nearly as they could ; am I right in that % — A. I cannot 
say what the contractors did. 

Q. What did you do in your dealings with the contractors? — A. In 
our dealings with the contractors we were aware that the stock of the 
company could not be sold at par, and we gave them a correspondingly 
higher price. 

Q. You also spoke a few moments ago about the stock not being worth 
over thirty cents on the dollar $ was that about the estimate which, in 
these lettings and in giving an increased price, you placed upon the 
stock ? — A. That I cannot say. 

Q. You cannot tell the committee what the estimate was that the 
company put upon its own stock in these lettings % — A. No, sir, I can- 
not. 

Q. Can you approximate about what^ you did estimate that stock to 
be worth to the contractors % — A. I think about thirty. 

Q. What was the estimate that you put upon the stock that was 
agreed to be taken under the Davis contract ; was it about thirty also? 
— A. About the same rate. 

Q. Was all the stock that was issued in payment for work done under 
the Oakes" Ames contract, and under the Davis contract, issued as orig- 
inal stock to the parties entitled to it ?— A. It was. 

The committee here took a recess till half past seven. 
When the committee re-assembled, the examination of Oliver Ames 
was continued as follows: 



278 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. I wish to call your attention again to that item of $1,104,000, with 
reference to which you were examined this forenoon, and in that con- 
nection I will call your attention to the record of the trustees, page 24, 
and ask you to read the resolution which you find there. 

The witness read as follows : 

" Mr. Bushnell offered a resolution that the treasurer pay over to the 
Credit Mobilier of America, in accordance with the provisions of the 
contract of Oakes Ames and the Union Pacific Railroad Company of 
August 16, 1867, and the assignment to the trustees, the sum of $1,104,000^ 
or a sufficient sum to enable them to make the stock of the Union Pa- 
cific Railway Company held by them full paid." 

Q. Was that resolution adopted as appears by the record % — A. Car- 
ried unanimously. 

Q. What is the date of that record ? — A. January 3, 1868. 

Q. W T as your prior explanation on that item of $1,104,000 the correct 
one ? — A. I must say that I do not understand the last part of that reso- 
lution now — " a sufficient sum to enable them to make the stock of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company held by them full paid." 

Q. Were you present at that meeting, as appears by the record % — A. 
Tes ; I suppose I was. 

Q. Are you able now to explain that transaction ? — A. I am no more 
able to explain it than I was to-day — that the company was in debt to 
the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. Which company do you mean % — A. The trustees. 

Q. The trustees were in debt to the Credit Mobilier ? — A. Yes, sir ; 
the trustees of the Ames contract. Under the Ames contract the Credit 
Mobilier was to advance money, and was to receive 7 per cent, interest 
and 2J per cent, commission on the money it advanced ; but the last 
part of that resolution I do not understand at all ; perhaps Mr. Alley 
m ay understand it. 

Q. Can you give any further explanation of that item than you have 
already given % — A. No, sir. 

Q. You were at that time, of course, connected with the Credit Mo- 
bilier ? — A. I never had any connection with the Credit Mobilier as an 
officer. 

Q. Were you familiar with the affairs of the Credit Mobilier as a 
stockholder"? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether the Credit Mobilier held any stock of the 
Union Pacific Railway Company at that time ? — A. I suppose they did ; 
they must have held stock — a large amount of stock at that time. 

Q. Mr. Oakes Ames held some stock of the Credit Mobilier in trust, 
did he not ? — A. It is so recorded. 

Q. Do you know for what purpose he held that stock? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did he not tell you the # purpose for which he held it % — A. I only 
know from the accounts I have seen in the papers recently. 
. Q. Did Mr. Oakes Ames ever tell you — did you ever have any con- 
versation with him at any time in regard to the purpose for which he 
held that stock?— A. 1 had. 

Q. When was the first time you ever heard him speak of it ? — A. I 
presume I heard him speak of it very near the time it was given to 
him. 

Q. Did he tell you for what purpose he held it ? — A. No, sir ; he never 
told me for what purpose he held it. 

Q. Do you know what disposition he made of it ? — A. I suppose he 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 279 

sold the stock to various parties ; it was the purpose when he took it to 
sell it to various parties. 

Q. Do you know to whom he sold it '?— A. I do not. I only know this 
public rumor that is out now of his having sold it to members ot 
Congress. I know if he did sell it to them, he sold it to them for all 
that he thought it was worth at the time. At the time we took that 
stock it was with great difficulty that we could induce our own people to 
take it; I know I was led up almost like a lamb' to the slaughter, to take 
that stock which I took. I took over $100,000 of the stock, and I would 
very gladly have let anybody have it at very much less than I paid ; 
but my interest in the Pacific Railroad and my desire to carry it through 
led me to take it. 

Q. Do vou remember at about what date Mr. Oakes Ames got that 
stock in trust ?— A. I do not remember the exact date, but I think it was 
in 1867 ; in the winter of 1867, I think. 

Q. Do you mean the winter of 1866-'67 or the winter of 1867->68 f— A.- 
I mean the winter of 1867-'68. My recollection of the matter is this : 
that the time that we increased the stock of the Credit Mobilier from 
$2,500,000 to $3,750,000, was a time of great depression of our securi- 
ties and great darkness in the affairs of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company, all of us desiring to get out of it as well as we could ; and 
that, feeling that we had a very large amount of money in there which 
we should perhaps lose, we increased the stock for the purpose of carry- 
ing the road through at that time. I think the books will show that. 
I know we had a meeting in an upper room in the Fifth Avenue Hotel 
with quite a large number of the leading stockholders of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company, and we decided to increase the stock, and to 
subscribe pro rata for it ; all of us desiring to get clear of it if we could 
get anybody to take our interest in it, and some of them took their in- 
terest, and immediately, if they could get a chance to sell it at a less 
price, sold it off. I took my interest in it, which was large, (I was next 
to the largest stockholder in the railroad company at that time,) with 
very great reluctance and fear ; and at that time Mr. Oakes Ames said 
he thought that there were parties here in Washington who would take 
some of that stock; that -he had talked with them about it; and the 
stock was promised to him then. It was agreed that he should have it. 
That is my recollection of the first mention of it. If I am right in my 
recollection about the time when this increase of stock was made, the 
transfer of the stock on these books to Mr. Oakes Ames was made quite 
long after it was sold to him. 

Q. Was there anything said by Mr. Oakes Ames at the time you refer 
to as to the purposes for which he wished to use that stock % — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. Was there anything said at that time as to the persons, or the class 
of persons, to whom he proposed to dispose of it ? — A. I think there 
was. 

Q. What was said ? — A. He said that he wanted to get persons in- 
terested in it who were good persons. 

Q. What kind of persons did he want ? — A. I think he mentioned to 
me the names of certain parties here in Congress. 

Q. Whom did he mention! — A. I think he mentioned Mr. Colfax as 
one of the persons. 

Q. Who else? — A. I do not recollect the names very distinctly. 

Q. Can you remember any other names except that of Mr. Colfax ? — 
A. Mr. Colfax was one of the prominent men in Congress at that time. 



280 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Was it to Congressmen that he intended to dispose of it? — A. He 
mentioned others besides Congressmen. 

Q. Did he mention Congressmen as persons to whom he intended to 
dispose of some of this stock? — A. Yes, he mentioned Congressmen as 
persons to sell the stock to. 

Q. Do you recollect now any Congressmen that he mentioned except 
Mr. Colfax?— A. I think he mentioned Mr. Boutwell. 

Q. Anybody else ? — A. I think he mentioned Mr. Wilson too ; he 
boarded at that time with Mr. Wilson. 

Q. Who else ? — A. I do not recollect very distinctly about the names 
of the parties. 

Q. Do you remember any other name that he mentioned? — A. I do 
not. I know very well the names that are now before the public in that 
connection, bufc I do not remember any other now that he mentioned at 
that time. 

Q. Why was he going to let members of Congress have it? Was it 
because of the pecuniary aid that he expected to derive, or because he 
desired to get the influence of members of Congress by disposing of the 
stock to them ?— A. Well, I suppose it was because he desired to get a 
good class of people in it. We did not expect that any legislation would 
be necessary ; wc had got all the legislation we wanted. 

Q. Well, was it money that he was after in making that disposition 
of the stock, or was it influence? — A. It was money that he. was after. 

Q. Money especially ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the influence of these parties was not what he was seeking ? — 
A. No, sir ; but then we all desire always to be associated with good 
men. 

Q* Did Mr. Oakes Ames inform you that he had disposed of that stock 
and to whom he had disposed of it; and, if so, when did he give you 
that information? — -A. Well, sir, I cannot answer that question. I have 
a general idea that he did dispose of it to such parties as hold it or as 
have held it along, and whose connection with it has now come out. I 
have that general idea abgut it; but it is possible that that may have 
been impressed upon my mind recently. 

Q. Did you ever know anything personally as to what disposition he 
had made of the stock ? — A. No, sir; I never did. 
' Q. What was the date of the assignment of that stock to your brother, 
Mr. Oakes Ames?— A. It was in 1867, I think. 

Q. Was it not in January, 1868? — A. (Eeferring to book.) It was in 
January, 1868 ; two hundred and twenty shares and thirty shares. 

Q. Congress was then in session? — A. It was. 

Q. Was your brother at the place where the assign ment was made at 
that time? — A. I do not know. I was not an officer in this company, 
and of course I don't know anything about that. 

Q. The arrangement for transferring that stock to your brother was 
made prior to the date of that 'assignmeut ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was it made before he went on to Congress? — A. I think it was 
made in the April previous to January, 1868; I think so, from what I 
now know of the matter. 

Q. Was the amount of the stock that was to be transferred to him in 
trust "to dispose of definitely agreed upon at that time ? — A. I think 
it was. 

Q. What was the amount? — A. I do not" recollect the amount. I 
recollect my brother saying that he could dispose of so much stock; that 
he had promised so much stock; he made a little statement of so much 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 281 

that be had promised, and it was conceded that he ought to have it j 
and, at the same time, Mr. Durant made a similar statement. 

Q. That conversation, when your brother declared that he had already 
promised a certain amount of stock, was in April, 18G7, you say? — A. 
I think so. , 

Mr. Alley. No, Mr. Ames ; you are mistaken as to the date. It was 
the last of November or the first of December, 1867, when he made that 
representation to the executive committee of the Credit Mobilier. If 
you look at the books, you will see that it was either late in November 
or early in December when he and Durant made those statements. I 
was there as one of the board, and I speak from knowledge. 

Q. Now, since hearing the statement of Mr. Alley, what have you to 
say as to the time when it was arranged that your brother should take 
those shares! — A. I do not very well recollect the time, but I know 
it was cold weather, and that we had the room warmed ; the room in 
Fifth Avenue Hotel, in New York. 

Q. Then the arrangement under which Mr. Oakes Ames was to get 
that stock to be disposed of at Washington, wag made in a room in the 
Fifth Avenue Hotel in New York, and it was in. cold weather? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Was the amount that he was to get then agreed upon ? — A. There 
was an amount agreed upon that the parties in interest would consent 
to resign to him. 

Q. What was that amount? — A. I do not recollect the amount. 

Q. Was it not over three hundred shares ? — A. I cannot recollect the 
amount. 

Q. Is that as near as you can answer? — A. Yes; I cannot tell. 

Q. Which is your better recollection now — that it was in the spring of 
1867, or in the winter of 1867, in December ? — A. My recollection about 
it would be that it was just about the time that we increased the stock. 

Q. You still adhere to that as the time ? — A. That is my recollection 
of it. I cannot fix the time. 

Q. Did not the parties to whom Oakes Ames sold the stock which it 
was thus arranged should be given to him, become entitled, in virtue of 
the sale, to one first-mortgage bond, of a certain amount, for each 
$1,000 worth of stock? — A. I don't know that it was due on the stock 
at that time. They were entitled to all the dividends that might accrue 
on the stock. 

Q. Was there not a dividend made on the 12th of December, 1867 ? — 
A. I think there was. 

Q. What was the per cent, of that dividend, and what in stock ? — A. 
I cannot recollect. The books will show. 

Q. If that conversation at the time that Mr. Oakes Ames received 
the promise that he should have that stock was in December, 1867, it 
was about the time that a dividend was made on that Credit Mobilier 
stock ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That was a large dividend, was it not ? — A. Yes ; my impression, 
however, was that he was to have the stock out of the new stock, and 
whether that would have been entitled to a dividend or not I do not 
know. 

Q. Did not that stock receive the same dividends as the other? — A. 
If the dividend was declared in December, it would not apply to stock 
issued after that. 

Q. If the last increase of a million and a quarter was preceding the 
12th of December, 1867, then this increased stock was entited to the 



282 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

dividend of the 12th of December, 1867 % — A. Yes, sir $ it would have 
been entitled to it then. 

Q. At any rate, there was a large dividend made in December, 1867, 
was there not? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And another very large dividend made very soon after — on the 
3d of January, 1868 ? — A. The two dividends were paid at the same 
time, were thev not ; the one of December 12, 1867, and the one of Jan- 
uary 3, 1868? 

Q. I cannot answer you at this moment, but you ought to be able to 
tell ? — A. (Eeferring to book.) This dividend, declared December 12, 
1867, was payable January 3, 1868, and the dividend of January 3, 1868, 
was payable at the same time. 

Q. Then there were two dividends, both payable on the 3d of January, 
1868?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What per cent, upon the stock of the Credit Mobilier was ordered 
to be divided at each one of those two dividends? — A. The one of De- 
cember 12, 1867, was 60 per cent., and the one of January 3, 1868, was 
20 per cent. 

Q. Then that would .be 80 per cent, that was divided on the 3d of 
January, 1868 ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. At that date, in December, 1867, what was the stock of the Credit 
Mobilier worth ? — A. I never sold a share of stock of the Credit Mobilier, 
and I don't know what it was worth. 

Q. Was it not worth nearly double its par value? — A. Double the par 
value was paid, I believe, by some parties. 

Q. About that time?— A. Very soon after that; but I never traded 
in the stock, and I don't know its value. I will say here, that I recol- 
lect now one instance where it was bought at 160 about that time. 

Q. Then you were mistaken when you said that the time that arrange- 
ment was made, by which your brother was to get this stock, was a 
dark time, when the stock was not worth much ? — A. No, sir ; I am not 
mistaken about that. At the time that we increased the stock— and 
that was the time, according to my recollection, that he was promised 
the stock — we were all very anxious not to be forced to take that stock. 
None of us wanted to take it. 

Q. Which increase do you refer to in your last answer ? — A. I refer to 
the last increase of the stock. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. Is it again your answer that the promise of that stock to Oakes 
Ames was made in the fore part of 1867, and not in December, 1867 ? — 
A. My recollection is that it was promised* to him earlier than Decem- 
ber, 1867. 

Q. Was it at the meeting at the Fifth Avenue Hotel that it was 
promised to him ? — A. I think it was. 

Q. And, so far as you know, the promise was not made at any other 
place? — A. I have no recollection of hearing the thing talked over at 
any other place than that. 

Q. Then the date of that promise, when it was first made, would be 
fixed by fixing the date of the meeting at the Fifth Avenue Hotel ? — A. 
That is my recollection. 

Q. And if that was in December, 1867, then you are mistaken in 
thinking that it was earlier than December ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And, at the time of the meeting in December, that stock was 
worth as much as 160, you say ? — A. About that time. I understood 
it so. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 283 

Q. How came you to arrange to sell to gentlemen, through your 
brother, stock which received a dividend of 60 per cent, in stock and 60 
per cent, in bonds on the 12th of December, 1867, at its face ? — A. My 
recollection of that is, that it was promised to him ; that when we made 
the arrangement that he should have that stock, it was not worth more 
than par. 

Q. Did your brother report to you that he had an arrangement that 
was made when the stock was below par; did he report that to you 
some time previous to the time when you fulfilled the promise to him 
by assigning the stock ? — A. My recollectiou of it is that when he had 
this stock it was not worth more than par. 

Q. That does not answer my question. When did he represent to you 
that those engagements of his were made ? — A. He said they were all- 
made at that time. 

Q. But how long before that had they been made % — A. That I don't 
know. 

Q. This he said at the Fifth Avenue Hotel J ? — A. Yes ; that he had 
made arrangements for the sale of that stock. 

Q. Did not, in fact, the persons to whom he distributed this stock re- 
ceive those dividends of December 12, 1867, and January 3, 1868; has 
it not come to your knowledge that they did receive them ? — A. I sup- 
j)ose they received all the dividends that were due on the stock when 
they had the stock. 

Q. Do you not know, from the testimony pf your brother, that some 
of those gentlemen, where they took $1,000 in stock, received a bond 
for $1,000 and also a cash dividend % — A. T>6 I know from the state-' 
ments that I have recently seen in the papers ; is that what you meant 

Q. No; but from the statements of your -brother. — A. He never made 
any statement to me about it at the time. 

Q. Or since? Have you not heard him state since that he did deliver 
to those parties, for whom he recived the stock under the arrangement 
made at the Fifth Avenue Hotel; those bonds and dividends of Decem- 
ber, 1867, and January, 1868 ! — A. Yes ; I have heard him say that. 

Q. You have no explanation to give, then, of how this stock came to 
be disposed of to those gentlemen at par, provided the engagement to 
deliver it to them was made in December, 1867, at the time of the Fifth 
Avenue Hotel meeting % — A. No, sir. 

Q. It was much above par at that time % — A. Yes; but my recollection 
is, that at the time the engagement was made to let Oakes Ames have the 
stock, it was not much above par. I know I did not feel that I was 
giving up anything in resigning my interest in those shares. ' 

Q. If you can fix the tiifle when those parties made an arrangement 
with Oakes Ames, I wish you would do it ! — A. I cannot do it. My recol- 
lections are, that it was at the time that we increased the stock, and at 
that time it was not thought to be worth par. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Were you present at a meeting of the board of directors of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad in the city of JSTew York on the 5th of January., 
1867 ? — A. The record shows that I was. 

Q. Look at this resolution offered on that day and read it. 

The witness read as follows : " Mr. Lambert offered the following reso- 
lution : That the Union Pacific Eailroad Company will, and do hereby, 
consider the Hoxie contract extended to the point already completed, 
namely, three hundred and five miles west from Omaha, and that the 



284 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

officers of this company are hereby authorized to settle with the Credit 
Mobilier, at $50,000 per mile, for the additional fifty-eight miles." 

Q. That resolution was adopted, was it not, on a yea and nay vote ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The Hoxie contract was extended to the 100th meridian % — A. It 
was. 

Q. The proposition in that resolution was to extend the Hoxie con- 
tract over a portion of the road that had already been completed % — A. 
Yes $ fifty-eight miles farther west. 

Q. And to pay the Credit Mobilier $50,000 a mile for it %— A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Will you explain to the committee why that was done ? — A. I have 
no explanation to make of it, further than that it was the desire to put 
the road all under one contract. 

Q. But that fifty-eight miles was already completed ? — A. Yes ; the 
fifty-eight miles was completed. 

Q. It was not proposed by that resolution to embrace any of the road 
excepting what had already been completed, as I understand the reso- 
lution. Is not that your understanding of it ? — A. Y r es, sir. 

Q. The Credit Mobilier, prior to this, had no contract with the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company for the construction of the road west of the 
100th meridian, had it ?— A. No, sir. 

Q. Then why should the company extend the Hoxie contract over 
those fifty-eight miles already completed, and pay the Credit Mobilier 
$50,000 a mile for it % — A. My explanation of it would be that the Credit 
Mobilier had gone on and built the road precisely the same as they had 
built it east of the 100th meridian, and expected a contract on the same 
terms as the original Hoxie contract, and, having done that, the directors 
of the Union Pacific Railroad Company thought it was proper to vote 
to them the amount of road that had already been built. 

Q. Is there any explanation of it that you can give other than that ? — 
A. No, sir ; I have no other explanation. This road, you understand, 
was built by the Credit Mobilier. They continued jjight on building the 
road, under the expectation that they were going to have their contract 
extended. 

Q. Had there been any proceedings of the board looking to that ? — A. 
That I don't recollect ; but it was the expectation that we should con- 
tinue the Hoxie contract. 

Q. In point of fact, were not the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier 
and the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company at that 
time the same persons ? — A. They were. 

gs Q.. Do you know what that fifty-eight miles had cost the Union Pa- 
€ific Eailroad Company ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know what the construction of it had cost whoever had 
constructed it ? — A. I do not. That road was afterward put under the 
Ames contract. 

Q. Mr. Durant testifies that that fifty-eight miles had cost about 
$20,000 a mile, and adds, "I see the resolution of the board calls for 
payment to the amount of $7,500." Then the question was put to him, 
u Then the cost of construction of this piece of road was $27,500 per 
mile'?" and he answers, "About that." Is that about correct, according 
to your best recollection or information in that regard? — A. Well, I 
have no figures at present, to judge of it by. We always supposed, 
though, that the cost of the road up there was more that $20,000 a mile, 
grading and iron. 

Q. Do you mean the actual outlay of money, or the cost of the road 
at $50,000 a mile?— A. The actual outlay of money. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD^ 285 

Q. Do you remember Mr. Durant filing a protest afterward against the 
extension of the Hoxie contract over this fifty-eight miles of road ? — A. 
I do not. 

Q. (Eeading Durant's protest to witness.) Do you recollect anything' 
of that % — A. I had forgotten it, if he made it. He was frequently mak- 
ing protests on one thing and another. 

Q. Do you recollect his getting an injunction on that? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you recollect of a contract being let to John M. S. Williams'? — 
A. I recollect of a contract being made with Mr. J. M. S. Williams; but 
nothing was ever done under it, I believe. 

Q. Perhaps I can refresh your recollection a little in regard to who 
had constructed those fifty-eight miles of road. Do you remember a con- 
tract having been made by Mr. Durant, on behalf of the company, with 
a Mr. Boomer ? — A. I recollect of his asserting that he had made such 
a contract, but the company knew nothing about it. 

Q. It appears on the records of the company, does it not ? — A. It may 
appear there, but, then — — 

Q. Now, was it not under the arrangement made with Boomer that 
that work had been done west of the one hundredth meridian % — A. I 
don't think there was ever anything done by Boomer ; it was a bogus 
thing of Dr. Durant's entirely. 

Q. Did not that Boomer arrangement (or whatever you see fit to call 
it) stipulate at the rate of $19,500 per mile for a portion of the work em- 
braced in it, and $20,000 per mile for the remainder of it 1 — A. Well, 
sir, I have not any recollection of the Boomer contract. 

Q. And did not the work go on under that Boomer arrangement until 
these fifty-eight miles were completed ?— A. I think nobody ever knew 
of the Boomer arrangement at all until Mr. Durant brought it out at 
some time ; I think there was never any money paid on it ; it was a 
secret arrangement. Boomer was a man of no responsibility. 

Q. Was Hoxie a man of responsibility % — A. Not at all, sir. 

Q. Was Mr. Davis a man of responsibility % — A. No, sir. 

Q. Neither of these men was a man of responsibility % — A. No, sir. 

Q. They were mere figure-heads in all this business % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. They were simply nominal parties to whom contracts were let, with 
the view of turning them over to somebody else ? Is not that- the 
fact? — A. The Davis contract was made by Dr. Durant with Davis, and 
turned over to the trustees under the Oakes Ames contract. 

Q. It was understood, at the time the arrangement was made, that it 
was to be turned over ; nobody expected Davis to perform that con- 
tract ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Nobody expected Hoxie to perform his contract ? — A. I suppose 
not; but I don't know about Hoxie; that was before I went in. 

Q. Neither was a man of responsibility ? — A. Mr. Hoxie was an em- 
ploye of the road. I think he looked after the ferry over the Missouri 
Biver at Omaha. 

Q. He was an employe of the company at the time the contract was 
made with him ? — A. That I cannot say : but he did have charge of the 
ferry afterward, while he was a contractor. 

Q. "Was Davis an employe % — A. He had a contract with the company 
to get out ties on the road. 

Q. Was there anything paid to Hoxie on account of his being inter- 
posed here for the purpose of taking this contract % — A. That I don't 
recollect. Mr. Hoxie had a good position on the road ; I think lie was 
paid a salary subsequently of about $5,000 a year for service?. 



286 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

v Q. What class of service was he rendering ■? — A. He looked after get- 
ting the freight over the river — the ferry at Omaha. 

Q. Was there anything paid to him in consideration of his assignment 
of that contract to the Credit Mobilier ? — A. I don't recollect. 

Q. Was there any stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company given 
or transferred to him on that account ? — A. I have no recollection. 

Q. Dicl the trustees under these contracts either give or sell original 
shares of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company to contractors — I mean 
shares that had not yet been issued? Did you dispose of them to the 
contractors, and then have them issued to the contractors ? — A. No, sir. 
The trustees under the Oakes Ames contract, and under the Davis con- 
tract, received the balance that was found due from the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company in cash ; and we paid that cash over to the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company, and received the amount in stock ; and that 
stock we' divided among the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eail- 
road who were also stockholders in the Credit Mobilier, as shown in the 
book here. 

Q. Let me see if I understand you. The Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany paid the trustees in money on the contract ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was that money actually paid over ? — A. It was paid over by 
check. 

Q. But was the money paid over, or was there simply a check given? — 
A. A check given. 

Q. And what did you do with that check ? — A. We bought stock of 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 

Q. At what rate ? — A. At par. 

Q. Then they gave you a check for money, and you gave them back 
a check for the stock, and the stock you procured in that way you 
divided out among the shareholders of the Credit Mobilier ?— A. And of 
the Union Pacific Eailroad. 

Q, But they were all the same thing ?— A. Yes. 

Q. Then it was divided among the shareholders of the Credit Mobil- 
ier ? — A. Yes ; who were also shareholders in the Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany. 

Q. Your officers were right together at that time ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q„ In the same room ? — A. In the same room ? In the same building. 

Q. Communicating rooms ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the officers of the one were officers of the other, were they 
not, in the main? — A. We did not have any officers of the Credit Mo- 
bilier. 

Q. I mean the trustees ? — A. Yes, the trustees. The Credit Mobilier was 
another institution altogether oft' in New York. The treasurer of the 
trustees was another individual altogether from the* treasurer of the 
Credit Mobilier. 

Q. But they were there doing business all together in communicating 
rooms ? — A. The treasurer of the trustees was president of a bank. 

Q. But the business was all done there together? — A. Yes, sir 5 the 
business was done there. 

Q. Did any money pass in that transaction. Was it not a mere 
paper transaction? — A. Well, if you don't consider a check money 

Q. Weil, I do not consider a check money. I might give you a check 
to-night for $50,000, but you would not get a dollar on it— A. But this 
was different. You owe me, or I owe you, $50,000; I give you my 
check for $50,000; you want to buy of me, perhaps, shovels to that 
amount, and you turn around and give my own check for the shovels, 
^ow, is not that a cash transaction 1 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 287 

Q. It is a paper transaction ; no money passes. — A. But values pass. 

Q. But there was no money passed in the transactions you have testi- 
fied to? — A. It was settling an account. 

Q. But no money passed ?— A. There were no actual bank bills passed. 

Q. Have you any information of any money or thing of value, bonds, 
stocks, or anything of that kind, having been given by any person con- 
nected with the Credit Mobilier, or with the Union Pacific Bailroad 
Company, to any Government officer, with a view to procuring the 
acceptance, on the part of the Government, of this road, or any part 
thereof ! — A. No, sir ; I have not. 

Q. Have you heard of such a thing as that having occurred ? — A. I 
have heard that such a thing did occur, but I do not know. 

Q. From whom did you hear that it did occur % — A. I heard it of Cor- 
nelius Wendell. 

Q. Who gave you that information?— A. That information was given 
me, I think, by Mr. Snyder. 

Q. And what amount did Mr. Snyder inform you had been given to 
Mr. Cornelius Wendell? — A. Twenty-five thousand dollars, I think; I 
won't be certain. My recollection may not be distinct about it. 

Q. In what was that $25,000 paid to Mr. Wendell — in money, bonds, 
or stocks ? — A. In money. 

Q. How long ago did Mr. Snyder give you that information ? — A. I 
don't recollect. I think it was in 1866 or 1867 ; it was during Johnson's 
administration. Mr. Johnson sent Wendell out there to make a raid to 
raise some money. 

Q. What did Mr. Snyder tell you about it ? Tell the story as 'twas 
told you. — A. Mr. Snyder said to me that Mr. Wendell came there 
and represented that if they did not pay him a certain amount of money 
he would not accept of the road, and he lay around there some time, 
and Mr. Snyder, on his own volition, and without authority from me, 
paid him that $25,000. 

Q. Where was it that that demand was made upon Mr. Snyder, as he 
told you? — A. At Omaha. 

Q. What position did Mr. Snyder occupy on the road at tbat time? — 
A. He was superintendent. 

Q. Did Mr. Snyder ever ask to have that money re-imbursed to him ? — 
I think not. 

Q. Did Mr. Snyder lose the money? — A. Mr. Snyder alleged tome, 
when I called him to account for it, that he paid out the money under 
the authority of Dr. Durant ; that Dr. Durant was out there at the time. 

Q. Did you have a settlement with Snyder after that?— A. We did 
not. 

Q. You never had any settlement with him ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was he handling the moneys of the company ? — A. He was re- 
ceiving freights. 

Q. Did he account for all the freights that he received, or was this 
$25,000 deducted from the amount that he received ?— A. I suppose it 
was deducted from the amounts that he received. 

Q. In other words, Mr. Snyder did not respond to the company for the 
amount that he had received by $25,000 ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. And that $25,000 he was permitted to retain because he had paid 
that amount to Mr. Cornelius Wendell for the purposes you have stated. 
Is that the way? — A. That is the way of it. 

Q. Was that man's name Cornelius or David Wendell ? — A. Cornelius, 
I think. He was a commissioner appointed here by Mr. Johnson to go 



288 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

out and make a raid upon the Union Pacific Bailroad Company, for the 
purpose of raising some money for some Johnson paper here. That was 
the understanding at the time. The road was well made and every- 
thing about it was good, hut the Union Pacific Company were in great 
straits ; they needed the money for the purpose of carrying on their op- 
erations, and they could not afford to do without it. I think there were 
some forty or fifty miles of road, and it was absolutely essential to the 
Union Pacific Company at that time to have that money, or else they 
would have had to go to protest ; and I suppose the view that was taken 
of it was, that it was cheaper to pay the money than to go to protest. 

Q. You regarded it as a black-mailing operation % — A. A black-mailing 
operation entirely. 

Q. And you submitted to it as such rather than be subjected to the 
inconvenience and loss incident to not having the road accepted 1 — A. 
Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. "What portion of the road was it that you say was complete and 
ought to have been accepted at that time ? — A. A large amount of road 
was ready for examination. The commissioners appointed by the Gov- 
ernment to go and examine the road went out and examined it, and 
Mr. Cornelius Wendell was one of those commissioners, and he re- 
fused to consent to the acceptance of the road, as I understood, with- 
out being paid a certain sum of money. 

Q. That I understand ; but my question is, what p£rt of the road it 
was that you say was then completed and ought to have been accepted 
without this black-mailing operation ? — A. I don't know the exact sec- 
tions ; I think it was about three or four hundred miles out. 

Q. Then that must have been after December, 1867 ? You had not 
progressed that far with the road,' had you, in December, 1867 %— A. 
No, sir $ I wish to say, however, that I never consented to that expend- 
iture at all. I wrote some strong letters to Mr. Snyder on the matter, 
that we should hold him accountable for the money ; but Mr. Snyder 
was poor, having no means except his salary, and the money had already 
been paid to the commissioner, and paid for what he (Snyder) thought 
was the best interest of the road at the time. 

Q. How soon after Snyder paid that money did he report the fact to 
the company ? — A. It was quite a little while. 

Q. That is rather indefinite. — A. W^ell, I cannot tell definitely with- 
out referring to the correspondence. 

Q. W r as it communicated to you, or to any other member of the com- 
pany than Durant, prior to the payment to the company by the United. 
States of the bonds which that finished part of the road entitled you 
to 1— A. I think not, 

Q. You think you knew that this extortion had been practiced upon 
you before you got the United States bonds on that part of the road 
then finished? — A. I am not sure that I knew it before that ; I think I 
did not know it until after ; I did not know it immediately. 

Q. Had that part of the road then been fully equipped ! — A, Fully 
equipped — as fully as the road was at any time during the progress of 
construction. We were putting on cars and locomotives as fast as re- 
quired to do the business of the road. 

Q. Did not Mr. Wendell claim and state that there were certain things 
yet undone which were required by the act of Congress % — A. I don't 
know that he did ; I do not know what his statement was. 

Q. At the time that the commissioners were asked to accept the 



CKEDIT MOBILIEK AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 289 

• 
road bad there been an affidavit made by the president of the company 
that the part completed was completed in the manner required by the 
act of Congress, setting forth with certainty where such completed part 
was I — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who was president of the company ? — A. I was. 

Q. Had you personally seen the road that you then asked them to 
accept? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You made your statement on information that you had ? — A. Yes ; 
I made the statement on the report of the engineer on the construction 
of the road ; he reported that, in construction, so much was completed. 
I then went before a judge at court and made application to have the 
commissioners go out and examine it. 

Q. That application was verified by an affidavit ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When was that affidavit made by you in this particular case J ? — A. 
I don't recollect now. 

Q. Can you state the year? — A. I think it was in 1S87. 

Q. How far westward beyond the one hundredth meridian had you 
progressed with the work in 1867 ? — A. We had got out some two hun- 
dred miles, I think. 

Q. Was not that the very part of the road you spoke of yesterday as 
being incomplete, and as justifying you in giving a greater sum to Oakes 
Ames when it was put under his contract ? — A. Yes, sir. It was not 
equipped fully up to the requirements of the road when it was opened 
for public business, but it had all the equipment necessary for a road in 
construction. 

Q. You' spoke of the buildings as temporary, and as being intended 
only as temporary buildings "I — A. Yes ; many of them were so. 

Q. Then they were not such buildings as a first-class railroad would 
need to have ultimately ? — A. No, sir ; but there were no people there 
to be accommodated by depots. 

Q. Then if those buildings were thus temporary at that time, and the 
road incomplete, as you described it in your testimony yesterday, was 
it not right that Mr. Wendell should refuse to accept the road at the 
time he got the $25,000 ! — A. I think not. I think the buildings were 
all that was required for a first-class road of that kind. There were no 
people there ; you would not want to put up a depot to accommodate 
100 or 200 people at a certain point when there was nobody to take the 
cars there. 

Q. Then you interpreted that act of Congress as meaning, not that the 
road should be in the condition that it was ultimately to be put in, with 
good permanent buildings, but was to be supplied with temporary 
structures which would satisfy the requirements of the law and entitle 
you to your bonds ; that was your construction of it at that time ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. When did this Mr. Snyder cease to be the superintendent of the 
road ? — A. I think he ceased to be superintendent in the latter part of 
1868; that is my impression, but I don't know but he continued longer. 
I think he was superintendent pretty much through the entire construc- 
tion of the road. 

Q. Was that payment of $25,000 to Mr. Wendell made known to the 
directors ?— A. I think it was. 

Q. Who were the Government directors at that time % — A. You have 
a list of them. 

Q. Did you mention to the Government directors that' act of bad faith 
19 c M 



290 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

on the part of the commissioner ? — A. I don't recollect whether I did or 
not. 

Q. Do yon remember whether that commissioner acted in that capacity 
again after that? — A. No, sir. I think that was the only time that he 
ever was ont on the road. 

Q. Where does he live, this Mr. Wendell?— A. Here in Washington. 

Mr. Hoar. I understand that he is dead. 

By Mr. Shell abarger : 
Q. I would like to know what relation Mr. Durant sustained to the 
railroad at the time that he had Snyder pay that $25,000? — A. He was 
vice-president. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Do you know anything of a sum paid to a Mr. Snow, a commis- 
sioner ? — A. No, sir ; there never was anything paid to Mr. Snow. Mr. 
Snow attempted to black-mail us in the same way, but he was not paid 
anything. 

Q. What was that transaction, so far as you know ? — A. Well, he 
made a very long report and very damaging to the Pacific Eailroad, and 
did everything that he possibly could to injure the road. He went out 
there as a commissioner appointed by Johnson to examine the road. 
He went out with a special authority and lay about there, (I under- 
stood — I never knew him,) and endeavored to get 

Q. On reflection I don't know whether I should properly have asked 
that question, if it was a mere attempt, and there was nothing done in 
the matter. — A. He never was paid anything. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. Do you know of any other Government commissioner who was 
paid anything ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever hear of any other ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever hear of anything being paid to Dr. White ?-*-A. No, 
sir. 

Q. Did you ever hear of any transfer of Credit Mobilier stock to 
him ? — A. The doctor had Credit Mobilier stock, but not from the com- 
pany, or anything of that kind. 

Q. From whom did he get that stock ? — A. I think he got it from Mr. 
Bushnell, who was a personal friend of his. I have no personal knowl- 
edge of his having the stock, though, and it does not appear upon the 
transfer-book. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Who is Dr. White, of Connecticut ? Do you know what his first 
name is ? — A. William. He lives at New Haven, and is about sixty 
years of age, I think. 

Mr. Alley. You are mistaken, Mr. Ames, about his being a stock- 
holder in the Credit Mobilier. 

By Mr. Shellabaroer : 

Q. Do you know of any money having been paid by the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company to any member of Congress as an attorney for the 
company, or for the Credit Mobilier ? — A. To nobody, except, perhaps, 
Mr. Butler. 

Q. What service did he render ? — A. He was employed by the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company at the time of the contest between James 
Fisk and the company. He came down to New York on the day of the 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 291 

election, and acted as counsel for the company and inspector of the 
election, and he remained there about two or three days, I think. 

Q. When was that election J— A. In October, 1867, I think. 

Q. The contract of assignment, called the tripartite contract, is dated 
the loth of October, 1867. Was General Butler acting as attorney in 
the way you have described at the date of that contract ? — A. (Refer- 
ring to the record.) At the annual meeting of the stockholders of the 
Union Pacific Railroad- Company, held at their office, No. 20 Nassau 
street, October 2, 1867, the inspectors of election were appointed, and 
the record is signed " B. F. Butler, for the inspectors." 

Q. Mr. Butler and somebody else acted as inspectors ?— A. Yes. 

Q. Was that the date at which the contract of assignment of the 
Oakes Ames letting was made to the seven trustees ? — A. No, sir 

Q. It bears date the 15th of October, 1867 ; when was it prepared, 
and where ! — A. That was prepared in New York. 

Q. Were you there at the time? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. By whom was it prepared % — A. I think it was drawn up mostly 
by Mr. Tracy. 

Q. Did any member of Congress aid in its preparation ? — A. O, no, 

Q. Was not General Butler there at the time ? — A. At the drawing 
up of that contract — no, sir. I think the Oakes Ames contract was 
made in August. 

Q. I am not asking about that ; I am asking about the tripartite con- 
tract which brought into existence those seven trustees. Where was 
that prepared and when ? — A. It was prepared in New York, by lawyers 
there in New York. Mr. Charles Tracy was one of the principal lawyers, 
I believe, in drawing up those papers. 

Q. Did any member of Congress participate in preparing that tri- 
partite contract % — A. No, sir. 

Q. You were present at its preparation, and know about it yourself? — 
A. I was present more or less during the time. 

Q. Was there any other service rendered by any member of Congress 
other than that you have described as rendered by General Butler ?— A. 
I think not. I have no knowledge of any other member of Congress 
being employed to render service to the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany. 

Q. Do you know of any member of Congress having rendered service 
to the Credit Mobilier ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Or to the se^en trustees ? — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Why, instead of issuing capital stock to make up the balance of 
the Oakes Ames contract, did you not simply issue bonds or notes or 
other evidence of indebtedness of the company, for the balance ? — A. 
And not have any stock ? 

. Q. Have a subscription of such an amount as you chose — large 
enough to govern the company only. You had some stock subscribed, 
$2,000,000, and 10 per cent, paid in, before you started. I do not know 
that this has any bearing upon the case, but I wish to know why it was 
necessary to adopt this roundabout method of having the contractor 
nominally subscribe tor a quantity of the stock. What advantage did 
you gain by the violation— for it was a violation — of the law? — A. Well, 
we wanted stock enough to vote on to control the road. 

Q. But you have got, nominally, about $38,000,000 of stock there ?— 
A. Yes, sir. Is that too much ? 

Q. I do not mean to intimate that it was too much ; but is not the 



292 CKEDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC EAILEOAD. 

note of a corporation worth more than its capital stock? — A. It is not 
so good for the corporation, though, because they will have to pay the 
note, and the capital stock is good for nothing. Stock is considered 
the best form in which a company can put these things, because they 
ain't obliged to pay anything on it unless they earn the money. 

Q. But suppose that precisely the same parties in interest had. com- 
plied with the law which requires them to subscribe what capital stock 
there was in cash, and had subscribed two, three, or rive millions ot' 
dollars, and issued the notes of the company, payable, with interest, at 
such times as they saw fit, why would not that have been better for the 
contractor and better for them, being at the same time a compliance 
with the law? — A. Persons engaged in railroads generally think that if 
they can get the capital into stock it is the very best way in which they 
can have it, because then they are under no obligation to pay anything 
upon it unless they earn it, while if they have notes and bonds out they 
must either pay or go to protest. 

Q. But that is in cases where the ownership of the capital and the 
ownership of the indebtedness are in different persons. In this case you 
proposed to have the ownership of the capital stock and the ownership 
of the indebtedness in the same persons, substantially, who were repre- 
sented by those seven trustees. 

Mr. Oakes Ames. If you will allow me I will say a word in answer 
to that. The stock would go into the hands of various parties ; those 
trustees could not carry the notes, and when the notes got about into 
different hands, first one would sue and then another would sue. 

Q. Were you not informed by the counsel who drew the contract that 
this was a violation of the law I — A. We were informed by counsel 
whom we consulted that this issuing of stock as a payment upon the 
contract for building the road was in entire compliance with the law. 

Q. Who were the counsel that gave you that advice? — A. Mr. Charles 
Tracy, Mr. Samuel J. Tilden, and Judge Allen. 

Q. All of New York ? — A. All of New York. They were the parties 
that were consulted in this matter. 

Q. Was this contract drawn before or after General Butler's visit to 
New York? — A. The Oakes Ames contract was before, and the assign- 
ment to the trustees was after. 

By Mr. Shellabargee : 

Q. Did you hear that advice given yourself, or dp you speak only 
from information derived from others? — A. I heard it*. 

Q. Did .not they tell you that it was made legal, or made so that it 
could not be objected to in law, owing to the consent that was secured 
from all the stockholders in the Union Pacific Bailroad Company, 
whereby they could not make any objection to the contract that was set 
out in the tripartite agreement of the 15th of October, 1867 ? — A. On 
that point I think not; the legality of the payment for the stock. 

Q. The second section of the act of 1864 provides that " money only 
shall be receivable for any such assessment," referring to assessments 
to be made in payment of capital stock subscribed. Now, my question 
is, whether those counsel advised you that the method adopted by you 
in issuing stock, as you have described in your testimony, and taking- 
pay in the work of construction under contracts which were let at 
prices augmented in the way you described in your testimony, to-day, 
by reason of their taking stock at par which was worth only 30 per 
cent. — did those counsel advise you that that arrangement would satisfy 
the section of the law that I have read ?— A. It was cash that we paid 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 293 

for the stock. The contractors received from the Union Pacific Kail- 
road Company a check for the amount of the balance due to the con- 
tractors under the contract for work done on the Pacific Railroad ; that 
check was turned in to the Union Pacific Railroad Company in pay- 
ment for the stock that we received 'from them; and that was consid- 
ered a cash payment, and we were advised by our lawyers that it was 
in compliance with the law. 

Q. But you have stated in substance that, in making the contract of 
letting, whereby the price to be paid to the contractor was fixed, you 
augmented the price to be paid to the contractor by reason of the agree- 
ment that he was to take stock at par which was in fact worth only 30 
per cent. ? — A. That is the fact. 

Q. So that the transaction would have been the same thing had you 
let the road at the just price in cash and then got 30 per cent, for your 
stock, its true value ? It would have come out all the same % — A. Yes, 
I suppose it would, but it would not have been a compliance with the 
law. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. How much was paid by the Union Pacific Railroad Company to 
General Butler for his services as attorney % — A. There was $3,000 paid 
to General Butler, and then subsequently, I think, $3,000 more. The 
general claimed that the first payment was not sufficient compensation 
for the service he had rendered. 

Q. So that he received $8,000 in all % — A. That is my impression. 

Q. He received that compensation for the services you have stated? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was he ever employed as the attorney of the road at any other 
time than that to which you have testified % — A. No, sir. 

Q. And he never received any other sums of money from the com- 
pany "? — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Shell abarger : 

Q. That compensation, you say, was paid by the Dnion Pacific Rail- 
road Company % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And not by Mr. Alley % — A. No, sir. 

Q. Mr. Bushnell stated that General Butler was brought there as at- 
torney for Mr. Alley. — A. Mr. Alley was, of course, a friend of General 
Butler, and I think he suggested to me that General Butler was a very 
proper man to look after the interests of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company at that time, and I got him to come down to New York. 

By Mr. Alley : 

Q. I had nothing more to do with it than simply making that sugges- 
tion to you, had I ? — A. No, sir ; that is so. 

Q. Don't you remember that General Butler came twice to New York ; 
that he was there at the first meeting, and then was also there at the 
adjourn ed meeting and took part, and was consulted with reference to 
this assignment of the contract! — A. I don't recollect in regard to the 
assignment of the contract, but I think he was at the adjourned meet- 
ing. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Didn't he stay there in New York about a fortnight attending to 
this business ?— A. I think not. 



294 CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Washington, D. C, January 24, 1873. 

John A, Bice sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Hoar : 

Question. Your name appears upon the stock-book as having sub- 
scribed for certain shares of the stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad ; were 
those shares issued to you % — Answer. I think part of them were issued 
in my name and part of them in that of Benjamin E. Bates, as treasurer. 

Q. Treasurer of what % — A. Treasurer of the trustees under the Ames 
and Davis contract. 

Q. Won't you state exactly what you did when you made those sub- 
scriptions % — A. I would like to say that it is nearly two years since I 
have been at the. office, and I have nearly forgotten the transaction. 
My principal business is with the Ames Clock Company ; this with the 
trustees was only a secondary matter of business with me. 

Q. You were there merely to have some person there who had some 
authority when Bates was gone, I suppose % — A. Yes, sir ; and my recol- 
lection is that at tl*e time of making this subscription I subscribed here 
for the shares, and paid the money for them to the treasurer of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company, Mr. J. M. S. Williams. 

Q. You did not carry up that amount of money and count it out there, 
did you % — A. No, sir ; it was paid in a check. 

Q. A check drawn by you, or given to you by some one to pay it 
with ? — A. A check drawn by me as assistant treasurer. 

Q. What did you do with the check ; was it given back to you again % — 
A. No, sir ; I gave the check to Mr. Williams and took his receipt. 

Q. You were then acting treasurer ; your authority as assistant treas- 
urer authorized you to act in the absence of Mr. Bates ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then you were entitled to receive as treasurer just the amount 
you paid in as a subscriber to the stock ; or did you not take that check 
right away again? — A. I can't recollect. 

Q. You do not recollect whether you did or did not? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you receive a check from the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
and then check back again ; was not that the substance of it ? — A. Yes, 
sir ; I think it was. 

Q. The first step in the process was for you to pay in the cash for your 
stock % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then, having paid in for the stock, you were to receive that 
amount under the contract, were you not % — A. I think I was to receive 
that sum before I paid for the stock. 

Q. But you did not go away leaving any money in the treasury of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company a great while, I take it % — A. No, sir. 

Q, Here is your name signed for 120,000 shares, which would amount 
to $12,000,000; now, did you pay over any such sum of money into the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company's treasury, which staid there; was it 
not a mere paper transaction % — A. It was all done by checks. 

Q. I know; but it was not as if you paid a check to a stranger to 
whom you owed the money. There was no twelve millions of dollars 
remaining in the treasury of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company when 
they had got through the transaction with you ; there was no such sum 
of money in their treasury with which they could do what they had a 
mind to ? — A. I could not say that there was. 

Q. Do you suppose there was ever anything there for five minutes, 
exposed to be attached by a creditor of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany % — A. I do not think there could be. 

Q. Then, in that transaction, was there not merely a check given by 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 295 

you and carried back again without ever being drawn! — A. Yes, sir; 
it was all done by checks. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. What is your age ? — A. Thirty-five. 
By Mr. Oliver Ames : 

Q. You received a check from the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
for the amount of those subscriptions, and then you gave them another 
check, or returned them their own check, and received this stock, or a re- 
ceipt tor so much stock ; didn't you ? — A. Yes, sir ; I think that is it. 

Q. You received a receipt to be delivered to the trustees for so much 
stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, and when the Union Pa- 
cific Railroad Company had given you their check and turned over to 
you the stock for that $12,000,000, they owed the trustees $12,000,000 
less; it was actually the same as though they had paid $12,000,000? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. But, so far as you remember, the bank-bills did not make their ap- 
pearance in the transaction ? — A. No, sir. 
Adjourned until Monday, January 26. 



Washing-ton, D. C, January 25, 1873. 
Examination of Oliver Ames continued. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. I call your attention to the records of the executive com- 
mittee of date February 26, 1869, and I will ask you to read a portion of 
the report which was presented at that time.— Answer. [Reading :] 

"Union Pacific Railroad Office, 

" Neio York, February 26, 1869. 

" In reference to the questions propounded by the»*executive commit- 
tee of the company, February 25, I have to report, first, the check for 
the $50,000 referred to was given on the order of Mr. Ames, president, 
and Messrs. Bushnell and Alley — said to be for legal expenses.' 7 

Q. Whose report is that from which you have been reading ! — A. The 
report of John J. Cisco, treasurer of the company. 

Q. State what that $50,000 was expended for"? — A. This wa*s at the 
time of the Fisk suit and raid on the Union Pacific Itailroad Company. 
The Union Pacific Railroad Company was under injunction, and I was 
advised not to appear in New York publicly. On that morning I went 
down to the office of Mr. Cisco, in a sort of a private way, and while I 
was in the office, Mr. Charles F. Tracy, one of the counsel for the com- 
pany, and Mr. Fullerton, came into the office of Mr. Cisco, and after 
talking some time on various matters, especially in reference to the suit 
of the Union Pacific Railroad Company with Fisk, they said that the 
whole thing could be settled ; that if they had $50,000 they could settle 
that suit. I thought it very questionable whether the money should be 
paid, and I did not give any special consent or dissent. The money 
was obtained from the company through the assistant treasurer, Mr. 
Tuttle, and so used, I suppose. I do not know anything about it, fur- 
ther than the testimony of Mr." Fullerton and Mr. Bushnell, on that 
question, before the court on the impeachment of Judge Barnard. 



296 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

They testified in that case that they paid that .money over for the set- 
tlement of that suit. 

Q. To whom did they pay it % — A. They asserted that they paid it to 
Jim Fisk, for the withdrawal of the suit and the settlement of the whole 
matter. 

Q. Did you give an order for the payment of that money ? — A. No, 
sir; I did not. 

Q. By what authority was that money paid out of the treasury of the 
company 1 — A. That I cannot say. My impression is that Mr. Bushneli 
went to the assistant treasurer of the company and the money was 
paid out. A check was given by Mr. Tuttle, and the money was paid 
over to Mr. Fullerton for the settlement of that case. ' That is all that 
I know of it. 

Q. What voucher had Mr. Tuttle for it ? — A. He had no voucher. 

Q. He paid it out without any voucher, and afterward this was the 
mode resorted to in order to account for that $50,000!— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did Mr. Fullerton get the money? — A. I expect he did. Mr. 
Tracy and Mr. Fullerton were the first who came and made the repre- 
sentation. 

Q. Did they state to you in what way they were going to settle ♦this 
suit through the use of this money? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was the suit ended with that? — A. The suit was not ended. 

Q. So that the payment cf the money did not terminate that litiga- 
tion ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was any explanation ever given to you or to the board as to why 
it was that after payment of the $50,000 the litigation was not termi- 
nated ? — A. No, sir. We never had any explanation of it. Mr. Fuller- 
ton's testimony was, I think, that after paying the money they refused 
to carry out the agreement subsequently. 

Q. Have you any knowledge or information in reference to this trans- 
action, other than what you have given to the committee? — A. I have 
not. 

Q. You procured some legislation, I believe, to enable you to move 
the office of the I£nion Pacific Railroad Company from New York to 
Boston ? 

By Mr. Alley, (with the permission of the committee:) 

Q. Mr. Cisco states in his report that that money was paid out on 
your order and by the approval of Messrs. Alley & Bushneli ; and you 
have stated that this was done at the office of Mr. Cisco. Do you recol- 
lect whether I was present at that time ? — A. think you were. 

Q. Do you recollect that I sat at the other end of the room and that 
you were in consultation together in another part of the room, and that 
I heard nothing of the conversation, and that you reported it to me 
afterward ? — A. I think I do recollect something of the kind. 

Q. You recollect that that was so ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Do you recollect that I protested against the payment of the 
money and advised you to have nothing to do with it and not to consent 
to it? — A. I think I do ; I think you protested against the payment of 
the money. 

Q. And that neither you nor I knew anything of the payment of the 
money before some days afterward ? — A. That is true 5 at that time, as 
president of the company, I did not want the service of an injunction 
upon me, and I returned from New York home; I took a carriage im- 
mediately after that and went home, and did not go to New York for 
some period after that. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 297 

By the Chairman : 

Q. What was this Fisk suit about? — A. Fisk claimed a right to vote 
on a large share of the Union Pacific Railroad stock which he had not 
paid for ; he had subscribed for a large amount of stock, as you see by 
the books there, but he never paid for it 5 he made an offer of payment 
to the amount of fifty-five cents to the dollar, which was contrary to 
law ; all the other stockholders paid in full. On that suit he got an in- 
junction and shut up the offices of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, 
and drove the company out of New York. 

Q. Then it was for the purpose of getting rid of this injunction of 
Fisk's that this $50,000 was paid?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Had there been an order of arrest made in that case? — A. There 
had been. I bad been arrested, and quite a number of others had been 
arrested. 

Q. Was not the order of arrest made at the March meeting in 1SG9, 
when you got into a controversy in regard to the election ? — A. The 
order of arrest was made at the time of election, and the suit was at 
that time. 

Q. Had not the suit been commenced before that time ? — A. No, sir 5 
I think not. 

By Mr. HOAR : 

Q. W r as this Fisk suit part of the same transaction in regard to which 
you mentioned that General Butler was employed ? — A. Yes*j it was 
part of the same transaction. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you recollect a suspended account that was brought to the 
attention of the board with which Mr. Durant was in some w T ay con- 
nected ? — A. I do. 

Q. Do you recollect that a committee was appointed to audit that 
account ? — A. I do. 

Q. Wlio composed that auditing committee ? — A. The one that I rec- 
ollect consisted of Mr. Cisco and myself. 

Q. Did you and Mr. Cisco examine into that account and make a re- 
port in relation to it ? — A. We did. 

Q. Did you have before you the books and vouchers showing the 
items that made up that account? — A. Yes ; we did. 

Q. Have you made them now? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Where are they ? — A. Dr. Durant claimed them as his private 
papers. He brought before Mr. Cisco and myself a tin box containing 
a lot of papers, vouchers for the payment of the several sums of money. 
Mr. Cisco had been in the company long before I had been, and I think 
that at the time these payments were made he was an officer of the com- 
pany. I did not know as much of the accounts as Mr. Cisco did. Mr. 
Durant presented to us vouchers signed by various parties, among them 
Mr. Alexander Hay and Mr. Stewart, whose names have been mentioned 
here. Most of the others were approved by a board that had been 
appointed to approve vouchers on congressional expenses. I do not 
know that that was the word exactly, but it was a board or committee 
to approve of bills that had been paid by Dr. Durant. 

Q. Do you recollect who composed that committee ? — A. I think that 
committee was composed of C. K Bushnell and George T. M. Davis 5 
that is my recollection. 

Q. Where does Mr. George T. M. Davis live now ?— A; In New York. 



298 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Dr. Durant brought these papers to you in a tin box and you ex- 
amined them, and on these papers you made your report f — A. Yes. 

Q. Why did you not keep these papers ! — A. We did not suppose that 
we had any right to them. Dr. Durant claimed them as his private 
papers. 

Q. But Dr. Durant was claiming to have a credit for this large sum 
of money ; nearly half a million, was it not? — A. Yes, sir; $435,000. 

Q. Why, then, was it not necessary for you to preserve these papers 
for the purpose of showing on what you had authorized the payment 01 
this $435,000 ? — A. The payment had been made long before that. We 
did not feel under the resolution that we had any more right than to 
report. I think we were not authorized by that resolution to take these 
vouchers from Dr. Durant. W x e report U that we have informed our- 
selves as to the details of the account of which the foregoing is a settle- 
ment, and have found that the several amounts were paid as above con- 
tained on proper authority of the road, and on proper vouchers, and 
that the fact in the premises is satisfactory to us." This report was 
made some two or three years after these transactions. 

Q. Is it not your recollection that the resolution authorized you to 
report whether it was satisfactory to you or not f — A. I think so. 

Q. The language of the resolution was substantially the same as the 
language of your report ? — A. I think it was. 

Q. You examined carefully these vouchers presented by Dr. Durant ? — 
A. We did. 

Q. Can you state to the committee what the character of those vouch- 
ers was ? — A. I cannot. 

Q. Can you state to the committee the character of the payments that 
had been made as represented by those vouchers 1 — A. No, sir ; I can- 
not state anything special about it further than that they showed that 
so much money was paid, and that the bills had been approved by a 
former committee. 

Q. Did these vouchers point out for what purpose this money was 
paid ? — A. No, sir ; they did not. 

Q. Then all that you know about the payments after the investigation 
was, that certain moneys had been paid, and that their payment had 
been approved by a former committee ? — A. Yes. 

Q. And that is all you knew about it ?— A. That is all we knew about 
it, 

Q. Did you ask any explanation as to the purposes for which this 
money was paid ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. All you did was simply to take the papers, and to find that they 
had been approved, and you reported that that was satisfactory to you, 
without making any explanation as to whether the money had been 
properly applied or not ! — A. Yes, that is the way we did it. We looked 
over those papers, and found that the amount of money said to have 
been expended by Dr. Durant had been expended, and had been ap- 
proved by an authorized committee for that purpose, and we did not 
feel authorized to go behind that. 

Q. Did you ask Dr. Durant no question on this subject J ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. And these vouchers were wholly silent as to the purpose for which 
this money had been paid ?— A. I cannot say that they were wholly 
silent; I think that some of the vouchers stated the purpose for which 
this money was paid. 

Q. Can you tell whether there was any considerable portion of this 
money with reference to which there was no explanation as to the pur- 
pose for which it was applied ?— A. Quite a large amount of it. 



CKEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 299 

Q. Did those vouchers state to whom it was paid ? — A. I think not. 
No, they did not state to whom they had been paid, but that so much 
money had been paid for legal expenses. 

Q. Why did you not inquire as to the purpose for which this money 
had been paid ? — A. This question had been quarreled over and talked 
over, and all that sort of thing, among the people of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company, and these vouchers had never been brought out 
before for examination. They appointed a committee, consisting of Mr. 
Cisco and myself, to ascertain whether that money had been expended 
as alleged. We went, and Dr. Durant brought those papers to us, and 
showed them to us. The payments all appeared to be properly vouched, 
and we made a report that these were payments that had been examined 
and that they all seemed to be properly vouched. 

Q. It was only satisfactory to you because some one else had approved 
them % — A. That was so. 

Q. Is it not a fact that you did not care to know what purposes this 
money had been applied to % — A. I think that perhaps that was so. 

Q. Was there not an apprehension in your mind, or a suspicion, that 
this money had been applied to purposes which it was not prudent to 
make public, or to spread upon the records of the company %— A. I may 
say that I did not think that there was very much about that matter. 

Q. Was there not a suspicion in your mind that there was something 
about the expenditure of the money which it was best not to make pub- 
lic % — A. I supposed it was spent for the purpose of getting legislation 
through Congress. 

Q. That was your idea of it at the time % — A. That was my idea, but 
I understood at the time that a good deal of it was spent in settling the 
quarrels between the Pawnee Railroad and Dr. Durant, and between the 
eastern division and Dr. Durant. 

Q. Was it because you thought that a considerable portion of it had 
been used for the purpose of procuring legislation that you did not de- 
sire to investigate the matter ? — A. W^ell, I think it was. 

Q. Do you know anything as to the purpose for which it was applied 
excepting what you have now stated % — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Did you not fear, when you were appointed on that committee, 
that it might turn out that some of that money had been improperly 
used, if you pushed your investigations to the bottom f — A. We did not 
feel that we had any right to push this investigation. 

Q. I thought you said that it had been publicly charged that that 
money had been improperly used % — It had been publicly charged that 
it had not been used at all. It was charged that Dr. Durant had not 
used the money, but had put it into his own pocket. 

Q. You report here that you have informed yourselves as to the de- 
tails of the accounts ; but you now say that you informed yourselves in 
no other way? — A. W 7 e examined every bill that there is there, in the 
details, to the full amount of $435,000. The charge was that Dr. Du- 
rant, instead of spending this money as he alleged he had spent it. for 
the purpose of getting a charter and for doing all things necessary, had 
put the money into his own pocket. 

Q. You did not regard the use of money to compromise the claim of 
another railroad as an improper or discreditable use of money, did 
you % — A. No, sir ; I should not have supposed it was. 

Q. So far as that was concerned, there would have been no reason 
why a receipt binding the company and relinquishing the rights which 



300 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

it had claimed, that were in controversy with you, should not have gone 
among your vouchers in the regular course of business? — A. I "sup- 
pose not. That thing was three or four years before I got iuto the 
company. 

Q. Now, I put this question with reference to these items — the item 
of $50,000 paid during the troubles in New York, and the item of 
$126,000 paid in 1871, at the time of the passage of the act of 1871. 
Did you consider it your obligation as the president of the company, 
if there had been any corrupt expenditure of the moneys of that com- 
pany, to ascertain it, to expose it, to punish it, and to prevent its recur- 
rence ? — A. Well, sir, I should have felt that if there had been any cor- 
rupt expenditure of the money, I should have opposed it ; but I did not 
believe that there had been any corrupt expenditure of the money. 

Q. Do you mean to say that, during your term of office as president, 
the suspicion never entered your mind that any of these sums of money, 
which appear in this extraordinary way on the books of the company, 
had been improperly applied to influence legislation f — A. No, sir ; it 
never did. It never entered my mind. I never believed in bribing 
members of Congress. I did not believe that it was a thing that could 
be done. 

Q. Did it not occur to you when that $126,000 item for special legal 
expenses was reported, that such a transaction would give rise to a 
suspicion that money had been improperly used in connection with that 
legislation'? — A. It might have done so in other minds ; it did not do so in 
mine. 

Q. Did it not occur to you then that it might in others! — A. It 
might. 

Q. I ask you whether that thought occurred to you then — that that 
suspicion might be excited in other minds'? — A. I do not think it did. 

Q. Did you ever have any evidence that that $50,000 which was 
taken by Mr. Fullerton and Mr. Tracy, was really paid to James Fisk ? — 
A. I only know what was alleged ; that it was paid to him, and then he 
refused to carry out the contract. 

Q. Had you ever any evidence of the fact ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You never saw his receipt for the money nor in any way satisfied 
yourself that it was paid ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Who alleged that it had been so paid to him? — A. Mr. Fullerton. 

Q. Then the evidence you had of it was your confidence in the verac- 
ity and integrity of your counsel, Mr. Fullerton, to whom you had in- 
trusted it? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether any receipt was taken from Mr. Fisk ? — A. 
I never have seen any receipt from him, and I do not think that any 
was taken. 

Q- Did you inquire for one? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you inquire of Mr. Fullerton why it was that if he had settled 
with Fisk, and Fisk refused to carry out his agreement, there had not 
been a binding signature to the agreement ? — A. I never did. 

Q. I suppose that ordinarily if you yourself had a lawsuit and you 
settled with the other side, you would take a receipt? — A. I think I 
would now ; I had probably more confidence in lawyers at that time. 

By Mr. Alley, (with consent of the committee :) 
Q. Is ifc not within your recollection that I and your brother, and 
some of the members of the committee which were subsequently ap- 
pointed, were dissatisfied with the action of the committee ? — A. Not 
of the committee on which I was. I think I recollect something about 



CEEDIT M0BILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 301 

a committee being appointed ; but, as no report was made, I do not 
recollect anything definite about it. 

Q. Do you not recollect that your brother and myself, and some other 
members of the committee, dissented entirely from Mr. MeOoinb's 
view? — a. I do not recollect about it; I know that our report was not 
satisfactory to some persons on the board. 

Q. Do you not recollect having said to me, on information that came 
to you subsequently, that you did not believe that Dr. Durant spent 
that money at all ? — A. I do not recollect saying that thing. 

Q. Was not that your belief? — A. I must say I did believe that Dr. 
Durant might not have spent all the money that he alleged he did. 

Q. Have you not said you did not believe that he spent much if any 
of it 1 ? — A. I do not think I ever said that. 

Q. But you think you have said that there was a good deal, which 
he claimed to have spent, that he did not spend. Did you ever hear 
him say anything about spending $80,000 to procure the influence of 
Thaddeus Stevens — he paying out that money in a roundabout way % — 
A. Yes ; I have heard Dr. Durant say that he paid about $80,000 to 
purchase a piece of property of Thaddeus Stevens, which had been 
burned, I believe, by the rebels. 

Q. The practical effect of it was to give Mr. Stevens $80,000. Do 
you not recollect that we all said we did not believe a word of it — you, 
nor I, nor any of us, and that that much went into Dr. Durant's pocket, 
or into somebody else's pocket 1 — A. I have understood Dr. Durant to 
say, at one time, that he bought a furnace, or furnace property, or 
something of that kind, from Thad. Stevens, and paid him, I think, soine- 
thnig like $60,000 or $80,000 for the property. I did not understand 
that it was any corruption, or anything of the kind. The intimation 
of Dr. Durant was that it was a very much larger price than the prop- 
erty was worth. Whether Mr. Stevens thought so or not I did not 
know. 

Mr. Hoar. But Mr. Alley's question was whether you had heard Dr. 
Durant declare that he had expended $80,000 in purchasing from Mr. 
Stevens some property that had been destroyed by the rebels, for the 
purpose of insuring his influence. 

Mr. Alley. You are mistaken. That was Mr. Ames's remark. 

Mr. Hoar. (To witness.) Do I understand you to answer that question 
in the affirmative. 

The Witness. Yes ; that Dr. Durant did so declare that he bought 
that property of Thaddeus Stevens. 

Mr. Hoar. (To witness.) This is a very important and grave inquiry. 
You answer the unimportant part of the question, and do not answer 
the important part. It is not important whether or not Dr. Durant 
bought a piece of property from Mr. Stevens. The important thing is 
whether he bought this property, paying for it more than it was worth, 
for the purpose of insuring Mr. Stevens's influence. That part of the 
question is the point, and the whole point ; and I want to understand 
whether you answer it in the affirmative or not. 

The Witness. No, sir ; I do not answer it in the affirmative. Dr. 
Durant said he had bought this property from Mr. Stevens. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. And that he had bought it with part of this money charged to the 
suspense account ?— A. That I do not know. There was no evidence 
of it. 

Q. I am asking what Dr. Durant said; was that a part of his state- 
ment, that it was bought with this money ?— A. No, sir; it was not. 



302 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. But Dr. Durant said that he had bought of Mr. Stevens some prop- 
erty ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Did he in any form or manner allege, when he said that, that he 
had paid for that property more than it was fairly worth? — A. I cannot 
say. I do not recollect. My impression, however, at the time, was 
that the doctor did pay more for the property than it was worth. 

Q. I am asking what the doctor said f — A. He did not say so. 

Q. Did he say, in form or substance, or did he intimate that he had 
done it for the purpose of securing Mr. Stevems's influence in favor of 
the road, or in favor of any project connected with it ? — A. That was 
the impression I got. 

Q. It is very important that you should answer the question. — A. 
Well, Mr. Durant did not say that. He did not say to me that he had 
paid Mr. Stevens this money to influence him. 

Q. In form or substance, or anything having that meaning? — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. But you say you had the belief that more had been paid for the 
property than it was worth, and that it was for that purpose ? — A. That 
was the impression. 

Q. On your mind? — A. Yes. 

Q. Was the impression on your mind also that the sum had been 
paid directly or indirectly, from the funds of the company ! — A. That 
was not stated. 

Q. You had, however, your own private belief. ]S T ow, I ask you 
whether your belief extended to that ? Did you understand that that 
money was paid from the funds of the company ? Did you have that 
belief? — A. Well, I do have that belief ; but yet there was no evidence 
of it in these vouchers at all. 

Q* You were at that time president of the company 1 — A. No, sir ; 
that was four years before I was president. 

Q. You. were a director at that time? — A. No, sir; I had no connec- 
tion with the company at all. 

Q. How came Dr. Durant to make this statement to you ? Were you 
at the time of that statement and before it an officer of the company? 
A. I was a director, I think. 

Q. When the belief first came to your mind that Dr. Durant had ex- 
pended, of the funds of the company, a sum of money to pay Mr. Stevens 
more than it was worth for some property hekl by him, and thereby to 
secure his favor and influence to the road, did you take any steps what- 
ever to ascertain whether that was true? — A. When the committee on 
which I was examined this suspended account there was nothing in that 
account to show that any money had been paid to Mr. Stevens. 

Question repeated. — A. I did not. 

Q. Did you not conceive that fidelity and duty to the company re- 
quired you to recover money so illegally and corruptly spent by Dr. Du- 
rant, if he had so expended it ? — A. Well, I think it would have been. 

Q. Why did you not do it ? — A. The thing was not so fixed, it was 
not so definite that we could make any claim on it. 

Bv the Chairman : 

Q. Why did you not investigate that matter when you were on this 
committee ? — A. When I investigated these accounts they all seemed to 
be properly vouched, and the money had been paid on these proper 
vouchers by a previous board of directors, some three years previously. 

Q. But you were directed to look into the details of these accounts, 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 303 

were you not? — A. Yes, sir; we examined every account presented 
there, and had vouchers for it. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Have you any knowledge or information on the subject of any 
transaction with Mr. Stevens, except the allegation of Dr. Durant to 
which you have referred? — A. Nothing at all. I never heard of it from 
any other person. * 

Q. Have you any knowledge or information of any property being 
now possessed or having been possessed by the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company which had been formerly owned by Mr. Stevens? — A. No, sir. 
None such has ever been possessed by it since I have been president 
of the board. I never believed the allegation of Dr. Durant. I know 
that he made that statement. T should hardly want such a statement 
to go on the record here against Mr. Stevens. 

By the Chair:mAN : 

Q. State whether Dr. Durant claimed that the money which he had 
paid on account of this furnace was embraced in that suspended ac- 
count ? — A. No, sir ; I think not. 

Q. That was not a part of the suspended account! — A. I think not. 



Washing-ton, D. C, January 25, 1873. 

Elisha Atkins sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside ?— Answer. In Boston. 

Q. Have you at any time been in any way connected with the Credit 
Mobilier of America f — A. No, sir ; except as a stockholder. 

Q. How long have you been a stockholder in the Credit Mobilier 1 — 
A. I made my first purchase in January, 1865. 

Q. What amount of stock did you purchase at that time ? — A. One 
hundred shares. 

Q. Have you increased your stock since that time? — A. Yes. 

Q. To what extent ? — A. Six hundred and twenty-two shares. 

Q. When did you get the additional shares ? — A. la September, 1805, 
April, 1860, and February, 1867. My last purchase was made in Feb- 
ruary, 1807. 

Q. How much of that stock do you now hold ? — A. The whole of it. 

Q. Have you at any time served on any of the committees connected 
witfi- the Credit Mobilier ? — A. No, sir, never. 

Q. Are you in any way connected with the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company ? — A. As director. 

Q. Are you director now ? — A. I am. 

Q. How long have you been director ? — A. Since the office was re- 
moved to Boston, in 1809. 

Q. Had you any official relations with the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company prior to the office being removed to Boston ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Are you a stockholder of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ; 
and, if so, how long have you been a stockholder ? — A. I am and have 
been, I should say, since 1800. 

Q. How much stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company do you 
now hold ? — A. I think about fourteen hundred shares. 

Q. Do you recollect or have you any knowledge of a note for two 



304 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

million dollars which was given by the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
in August, 1869? — A. Yes, I have the note. 

Q. Were you present when the note was executed ? — A. No, I think 
not. 

Q. Do you remember the circumstances under which it was given f — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. State the circumstances under which that note 4 was given. — A. In 
the course of a suit by the State of Pennsylvania against the Credit 
Mobilier for taxes it became necessary to give an appeal bond, (if that 
is the proper term,) a bond to prosecute the appeal. It was represented 
that the Credit Mobilier had no available assets to secure parties sign- 
ing that bond. It was also stated that there was a balance due by the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company to somebody on one or more of the 
different contracts for building the railroad — an unadjusted balance. It 
was finally arranged between the president of the Credit Mobilier and I 
think the trustees that the Union Pacific Eailroad Company should 
give their note to the Credit Mobilier for the sum of two million dol- 
lars, which would be indorsed by the Credit Mobilier and placed in the 
hands of trustees for the protection of parties who would be willing to 
sign that bond. The bond was executed, the suit came to trial, and ter- 
minated, as we supposed it would, against the State of Pennsylvania 
and in favor of the Credit Mobilier. The bond was canceled, but the 
note remains in my possession. I believe that is the whole hisforv 
of it. 

Q. Produce the note an*d read it to the committee. 

Witness produces the note and reads it, as follows: 

" New York, August 4, 1869. 
" $2,000,000. 

" On demand the Union Pacific. Eailroad Company promise to pay to 
the order of the Credit Mobilier of America two million dollars, for value 
received. 

"OLIVER AMES, 

" President 
"JOHN M. S. WILLIAMS, 

u Treasurer. 
"No. 774/? * 

Indorsed : 

" Pay to the order of Elisha Atkins, trustee. 

" SIDNEY DILLON, 
u President Credit Mobilier of America. 1 ' 

Q. Is there a memorandum on the back of the note I— A. There is ; it 
is as follows : 

" The Credit Mobilier of America will please affix the necessary stamps, 
and charge to account of Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 

"JOHN M. S. WILLIAMS, 

" Treasurer. v 

Q. Were any stamps ever put on that note ? — A. The note never was 
used. 

Q. Did you hold the note for the purpose which you have indicated ! 
— A. Yes ; for the protection of the parties. 

Q. As collateral security for the purpose of indemnifying those par- 
ties against loss f — A. Simply as collateral security for the parties sign- 
ing that bond, and for no other purpose. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 305 

Q. Do you know who was present at the time that note was executed ? 
— A. I do not; neither did I know that I was to be named as trustee. 
But Mr. Dillon insisted that I should take charge of this note. 

Q. Do you know whether there was any investigation of the accounts 
between the Union Pacific Eailroad Company and the Credit Mobilier 
at the time that note was given ? — A. I do not. 

Q. When was it that you first knew of the execution of that note, and 
the purpose for which it was executed ? — A. Probably the same day, as 
the bond was waiting to be signed ; no doubt I knew it at the date it 
was executed. 

Q. Have you any further information in regard to that matter other 
than what you have stated to the committee ? — A. The bond was for 
only $000,000 and the note was for two million dollars. I was not con- 
sulted in making the note, bat my presumption and conclusion is, that 
it was made for that large sum in order to cover the contingency of its 
being finally payable in stock, as some parties in the Union Pacific Bail- 
road Company claimed that the balance should be paid in stock. To 
guard against that contingency, I suppose, the note was made sufficiently 
large to indemnify them. 

Q. So that, if it was payable in stock, the note was made large enough 
so that the stock should be estimated at its real value and not at its 
})ar value? — A. At its market- value. With the stock at 30, the note 
would about cover it. 

Q. Then, if the Union Pacific Kailroad Company paid this note in 
stock, or if it turned out that the Union Pacific Eailroad Company had 
the right to pay it in stock, the note was made large enough, so that 
the two millions of stock would pay the six hundred thousand dollar 
bond ? — A. Yes, sir ; that is the way I look at it. 

Q. Was the matter talked over at the time? — A. No, sir, I do not 
think it was; but the matter of the settlement of that account had been 
talked over frequently before. The question had been often raised how 
this balance should be paid, whether in stock or in money, some con- 
tending that it should be paid in stock, and some contending that it 
should be paid in money. To cover that contingency, the note was made, 
as I said before, for that large amount. 

Q. It was not pretended at that time that the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company owed the Credit Mobilier two millions in money? — A. It was 
pretended by some parties, and disputed by others. This was an un- 
adjusted balance. 

Q. Were you ever a member of any of the committees of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company'? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Of what committees? — A. I have been on the finance committee 
ever since I was a director ; I was on the executive committee one year, 
I think. When I was notified of my election as director, I finally ac- 
cepted it with this distinct understanding, that my time was not to be 
called upon in the general management of the road ; that I should have 
nothing to do with the management or building of the road, but that 
what time I could devote should be given strictly to the finances. I 
was chairman of the finance committee and a member of the finance com- 
mittee since I have been on the board. 

Q. Do you know anything in regard to an account of $126,000 for 
special legal expenses? — A. I know that there was such an account 
paid, but I know nothing further about it. 

Q. Do you know the character of the services rendered ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know to whom the money was paid? — A. I do not. 
20 c M 



306 CKEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILED AD. 

Q. Have you any information from any source as to the purpose to 
which that money was applied ? — A. I have not. 

Q. Have you ever heard it talked over among the members of the 
board, or of any of the committee? — A. Nothing definite; the money 
was spent, and I had no reason to suppose that it was not spent legiti- 
mately; it did not come into my province to know anything about it 
I concluded that the money was spent legitimately by the proper parties. 

Q. Did you never have any information from any person as to the 
character of the services for which that money was expended ? — A. No, 
sir, I never asked the question. 

Q. Did you ever hear it talked about t — A. I do not think I did. 

Q. What is your best impression ? — A. That there was nothing defi- 
nite said about it. 

Q. Did you ever hear anything said about it? — A. It may have been 
talked about that the $126,000 was paid; it was paid by the proper 
authorities. I took it for granted that it was all right, and I supposed 
that it was all right 

Q. Was not your understanding that that money was used in secur- 
ing legislation ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was there nothing said on the subject? — A. Not a word. 

Q. Did you ever hear anything said about it? — A. No, sir; if the 
money had been spent, from time to time, in the interest of the company 
to support the securities, I should ask no question about it. 

Q. And you have no knowledge or information about it further than 
you have stated? — A. No, I have not. 

Q. Did you ever hear of an item of $50,000 for special legal ex- 
penses? — A. Yes; I heard it to-day. It was long before my connection 
with the company, and I know nothing whatever about it, except that 
there was such an item on record. 

Q. Was the character of that expenditure ever called in question at 
a meeting of the board or of any of the committees ? — A. Not to my 
knowledge. My impression is that it was paid under the direction of 
the president at the time; still I cannot positively state that. 

Q. Do you know where this $126,000 was expended ? — A. No, sir ; I 
do not. 

Q. You recollect the fact, do you not, that it was paid or ordered to 
be paid shortly after the legislation of 1871? — A. I do not recollect the 
precise date ; I recollect seeing the approval of the auditing committee. 

Q. Were you at the meeting of the board at the time that it was di- 
rected to be done ? — A. I do not recollect ; the record will show whether 
I was or not. I probably was if it was the occasion when Mr. Scott was 
elected nresident 

Q. Why do you hold this $2,000,000 note now?— A. Immediately 
after the bond was canceled I desired to get rid of the note, and I con- 
sulted with the president of the Credit Mobilier to see what was to be 
done. In the interest of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company I wished 
to avoid giving the note to the Credit Mobilier, and I asked to be al- 
lowed to cancel the note or return it to the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany. I hold it now in the interest of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany in the hope of having the thing settled as it should be. This is 
done by Mr. Dillon's approval, hoping that in the mean time the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company would arrive at some conclusion about set- 
tling that balance. 

Q. Please to read from the bond the names of the parties who signed 
it.— A. C. S. Bushnell, William T. Glidden, O. S.' Chapman, E. W. 
Baker, Sidney Dillon, Oakes Ames, Eowland G. Hazard, John E. Duff, 
P. Nickersom Oliver Ames, John M. S. Williams, and Elisha Atkins. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 307 

Washington, D. C, January 27, 1873. 

Continuation of the examination of John B. Alley. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Have you any information of a protest having been filed 
with the Secretary of the Interior by the Government directors against 
contracts that were being made between the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany and the Credit Mobilier of America, or persons connected with 
the Credit Mobilier of America $ — Answer. Xo, sir 5 none whatever. I 
never supposed that there were any. 

Q. Did you ever hear of any such protest ? — A. I never did. 

Q. I refer to a time when Mr. Sherman, of Ohio, now judge of the 
northern district of Ohio, was one of. the Government directors, and 
when Mr. Harlan was Secretary of the Interior. Did you hear of any 
such protest as that during that period 1 — A. I never did that I recollect. 

Q. Do you know anything of a remonstrance or any kind of paper 
having been filed by these Government directors against the manner in 
which the work was being let by the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — 
A. I have no recollection of it. On the contrary, my recollection is that 
the Government directors were all in favor of it, and no man advocated 
it and urged it more than Mr. Sherman at the office in New York. 

Q. You mean to say that he advocated and urged the manner in 
which the contracts were being let out for the construction of this 
road 1 — A. I think so ; I think he was strongly in favor of it. 

Q. Did you understand him to be in favor of the extension of the 
Hoxie contract over fifty -eight miles of road that had been already con- 
structed ? — A. I do not recollect particularly about that. I remember 
very distinctly that I was opposed to the contract and the whole thing, 
and was opposed to the dividends. I had quite a number of controver- 
sies with Judge Sherman, who, on the contrary, was strongly in favor 
of the whole thing, so far as I now remember after the lapse of so many 
years, from beginning to end. That is my recollection. 

Q. And he was in favor of paying these dividends ? — A. I cannot say 
about the dividends ; but I do not recollect that he ever made the slight- 
est opposition to them. He was regarded as a Durant man, and what- 
ever Durant was in favor of he was in favor of. 

Q. But Durant was opposing the extension of this Hoxie contract, 
was he not, over this fifty-eight miles ? — A. I do not think he was. 

Q. Do you wish to be understood as saying that Judge Sherman was 
in favor of the manner in which the contracts were being let ? I am 
alking now about the Hoxie contract and its extension. — A. I do not 
know about the Hoxie contract $ I was not in the board at that time. 

Q. Did I understand you to say that he was in favor of the Ames 
contract 1 ? — A. Yes, I think so. 

Q. Did he not go out of office before the Ames contract was made 1 — 
A. I think not. 

Q. Did he not go out of office on the 1st of January, 1867'?— A. Per- 
haps so. If he did, he was down there acting as counsel, or in some 
capacity. He and Duraut were friends. I know that I was opposed to 
the whole thing, and talked to Judge Sherman about it, and he was in 
opposition to me ; I am very certain of that. 

Q. I should be very glad that you would be as particular as you can 
be in your statement in reference to this matter. If you wish to reflect 
about it in any way you may do so. — A. I have just as distinct a recol- 
lection of it, 1 think, as I should have if it took place recently. The 



308 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

first of my hearing about the Oakes Ames contract of 16th August, 1867, 
was in New York, in the office, from information that I derived from 
Judge Sherman, and my impression is that he helped to get it up, and 
wrote a part of it. 1 ought to say here, perhaps, that my opposition to 
the Ames contract, and to its assignment in the manner that it was as- 
signed to the seven trustees, was not on account of any wrong that I 
thought there was in it to the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company, or to the Government, but on account of my personal 
friendship for Mr. Ames, feeling that it was a case of great peril to him, 
and that he ought not to put himself in that position ; that it would be 
very damaging to his credit, and that he would be taking upon himself 
a load which he might not be able to get through with. With regard 
to the dividends, I opposed the dividends all through, and my opposi- 
tiou to them was on this ground, and this ground alone, that it was un- 
businesslike and improper to estimate profits, and to divide them on a 
contract, while there was a possibility, if not a probability, that before 
the road was completed they might find it much more expensive than, 
they expected, and might need all their money, all their securities, and 
everything that they were dividing up to put it through. It was on 
business ground, and as a matter of business propriety, that I opposed 
these dividends, not that 1 conceived that the trustees were doing any 
moral wrong. And my prediction, I believe, was entirely fulfilled in 
regard to that ; and they would nearly all say to-day that I was right, 
and that they were wrong. But as a consequence of my opposition 1 
was virtually turned out of the trusteeship ; I was only trustee for two 
or three months. My opposition was such that, although I acquiesced, 
as I was a small stockholder, we could not agree, and particularly on 
dividends, and they wanted to get rid of me ; and so I resigned. And 
so it was afterward also in the board of directors. 

Q. And you say that you opposed the Ames contract on account of 
your personal friendship for hiin, and because you conceived that he 
was incurring great peril when he took it ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Was it not understood at the time that Mr. Ames was not to per- 
form that contract himself, and that that contract was to be assigned, 
and that all those stockholders in the Credit Mobilier were to have the 
benefit of that contract ? — A. No, sir ; not at all. 

Q. You say that that was not the understanding? — A. It was not the 
understanding at all. 

Q. Did Mr. Ames ever do any work personally under that contract ? — 
A. No. 

Q. Was there anything done under that contract until after it was as- 
signed to this board of trustees '? — A. No, sir ; not much, I think. 

Q. Was there anything at all done % — A. I do not think there was. 

Q. Was it a part of Mr. Ames's original stipulation -at the time of 
his offer to take that contract, that all the stockholders in the Union 
Pacific Bailroad Company should assent to the contract 1 ? — A. It was 
the general understanding; and my impression is that Mr. Antes was 
unwilling to take it unless the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company should all assent to it. 

Q. Why did he require the assent of every stockholder, if it was a 
contract with him as an individual, aud a contract in which a majority of 
the board of directors was not interested 1 — A. I think it grew up in this 
way: I think that after the contract was made with Mr. Oakes Ames 
and executed and delivered, Dr. Durant was afraid that he and his party 
might not get all their rights under it, or their privileges, or what they 
regarded as such ; and then he started the idea that he could control it 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 309 

by such a provision. There was no objectiou made to such a provision. 
I think he threatened an injunction, and I do not know but that he got 
out an injunction ; at all events he threatened one if they did not all 
come into it. Mr. Ames himself, I believe, was very willing and de- 
sirous that that should be done. 

Q. But if this was a contract understood on both sides to be with Mr. 
Ames as an individual, and in which the management of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company had no other interest than to protect the in- 
terests of the company, having no personal concern with the contract, 
what were the rights and privileges which Durant and his party con- 
ceived they were entitled to and were afraid they would not get ? — A. I 
should like to state my understanding of the history of that matter. 

Q. The point to which I was going to call your attention next was as 
to whether or not you have any knowledge or information in relation to 
$10,000 or any other sum having been paid Mr. Harlan"? — A. I have 
not. There never was a dollar paid to any member of Congress, or to 
any officer of the Government while I was a director of the company, 
or while I was a director in the Credit Mobilier, by either corporation, 
directly or indirectly, to my knowledge or in my belief. 

Q. You know nothing at all in relation to a payment of $10,000 to Mr. 
Harlan % — A. I know nothing about it except what I have heard. 

Q. From whom did you hear it? — A. The first time I heard of it, I 
think, was from Oakes Ames. 

Q. When was that ! — A. I cannot tell you the exact time, but I should 
think it was after the election of Mr. Harlan to the Senate. 

Q. How long was it after his election to the Senate that you heard of 
it ? — A. 1 should think a year and a half. He was elected a year before 
he took his seat, and it was some time after he took his seat in the 
Senate that I heard about it. 

Q. What was it that Mr. Ames told ypu in relation to it ? — A. Mr. 
Ames said, according to my recollection, that Mr. Durant had contrib- 
uted $10,000 to the election of Mr. Harlan himself, personally, and that 
it had just come to light, as far as he had any knowledge of it, and 
that Mr. Durant wanted the company to pay it, and claimed that he 
ought not to have to pay it individually. Mr. Ames said that he should 
not submit to any such thing as that, and asked me what I thought 
about it. I said that he was certainly right about it, and that if Mr. 
Durant had contributed $10,000, or any sum of money, to the election 
of Mr. Harlan, it was an individual matter, and that never, with my con- 
sent, should the company pay anything to that man. My impression is, 
that I was then a director in the company, but I am not certain ; I think 
I had just been elected a director, which, I presume, was the occasion 
for Mr. Ames speaking to^ me about it. 

Q. About what time was that f — A. Some time after Mr. Harlan took 
his seat in the Senate. It must have been a year and a half after his 
election, because he was elected a year before he took his seat. I think 
he was elected in 1866 by the Iowa legislature. 

Q. If you are correct iu point of time, it would be some time even in 
1865 or 1866 that this payment was made ? — A. I always understood 
that it was made not only before Mr. Harlan's election, but before the 
legislature was chosen. But, however that was, I do not know. I have 
no further knowledge of the transaction except Mr. Ames telling me 
about it, and it had passed altogether out of my mind ; I do not know 
that I had thought of it again until it was brought up by this investi- 
gation. 

Q. Do you know whether that $10,000 was ever paid out of the funds 



310 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company I — A. I never supposed that it 
was ; if it was it was done without my knowledge. 

Q. Did you ever hear of its getting a place on the books of the com- 
pany? — A. I never did. 

Q. Did no one ever tell you anything on that subject ? — A. No, sir ; 
all that I ever heard about it was this conversation with Mr. Ames here 
in Washington. 

Q. Did you ever hear anything in relation to that money beiug paid 
out of the funds of the Credit Mobilier ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You do not know whether it appears on the books of that corpora- 
tion? — A. I do not; but I do not believe that it does. I never saw it 
there. I never heard of it, and I never heard it intimated, and have no 
belief that it is there. 

Q. Have you ever seen any drafts or checks that appertain to that 
matter ? — A. No, sir ; I never heard a word about it, and I do not know 
a thing about it, except as I have told you. 

Q. Do you know anything about any letters having been written in 
relation to it ? — A. I never heard of any letters being written in relation 
to it. 

Q. And you never saw any ? — A. I never saw any. 

Q. And all that you know about it, directly or indirectly, is what Mr. 
Oakes Ames told you, and what you heard since this investigation be- 
gan 1 — A. Yes, that is the whole story, 

Q. And what you have heard since this examination began is that 
exclusively that has been stated in the testimony % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You have not heard anything of it outside of the testimony % — A. 
I am not certain that I heard anything of it outside of the testimony. 
If I did I heard nothing of it inconsistent with the testimony. 

Q. Were you a member of the executive committee of the Union Pa- 
cific Eailroad Company in September, 1868 % — A. No, sir ; I never was. 

Q. Did you ever hear of the account spoken of as suspense account, 
amounting to $435,000 ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether this $10,000 to Harlan was embraced in that 
account in any way % — A. No, sir; I never heard that it was. 

Q. Have you any information in relation to that $10,000 other than 
what you have now given to the committee % — A. No, sir. 

Q. Either directly or indirectly % — A. No, sir ; I never heard a word 
about it except as the committee has heard from the testimony here. 

Q. Were you in any way connected with the settlement of this sus- 
pense account of $435,000 ? — A. No, sir. I was appointed on a commit- 
tee once to investigate and look into it. I am not certain, but do not 
think that I was appointed by a formal resolution of the company, but 
in connection with some prominent stockholders, informally, who were 
not directors. We talked the matter all over, and examined it as far as 
we could. That expenditure occurred at a very early period in the 
organization, and, so far as I was concerned, I never knew anything 
about it, and had nothing to do with it. Neither had the Ameses, I 
believe. 

Q. You were appointed on a committee to investigate its accounts on 
one occasion % — A. Yes, appointed or requested to serve. 

Q. Did you investigate it % — A. We did, as far as we could. 

Q. To what extent did your investigation go % — A. Not very far. 

Q. Did you get any of the vouchers before you % — A. Some vouchers 
were shown, but were not to my mind very satisfactory. 

Q. What was the character of those vouchers, and what was the 
amount of them in the aggregate ? — A. I do not know. My recollection 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 311 

is that tlie amount was in the neighborhood of $400,000. Tour record 
says $435,000, and I presume that that is the correct amount. 

Q. And the vouchers for that $435,000 were not satisfactory to you ? — 
A. There was nothing about it satisfactory to me. 

Q. What was it that you discovered there that was not satisfactory 
to you? — A. There was nothing that was satisfactory; there was no 
sufficient account given, to my mind. I believe that the only person on 
the committee who was satisfied was Mr. McComb, although 1 think 
there were others willing to acquiesce and to join in a report to settle. 
But I declined to do so, and I think that Mr. Oakes Ames did ; I know 
that he expressed his dissatisfaction, and I believe that all the rest did, 
except Mr. McComb, who expressed himself as entirely satisfied. 

Q. State the character of the vouchers that came before you. — A. I 
think there were few or no vouchers that seemed to me to be proper 
vouchers. 

Q. What was it that did come before you 1 — A, It is a good while ago, 
and my recollection is not very distinct ; I think there was a voucher 
there from Mr. McComb, and I think there was a voucher there from 
Mr. Bushnell. It strikes me that there were some vouchers also from a 
Mr. Stewart — I am not sure about that, though. 

Q. Were there any vouchers from a Mr. Hay ? — A. I think very likely 
there were. 

Q. What did these papers show on their face? — A. They did not 
show anything, except that the signers had received so such money, 
and nobody gave any explanation that was at all satisfactory to me. 

Q. What was the date of that investigation ? — A. I think it was in 
the autumn of 1867, but am not sure ; it was very soon after I came 
into the direction. 

Q. Was Mr. Bushnell present when this investigation was made? — 
A. I do not think he was ; I do not think he was on the committee, but 
he may have been. 

Q. Was Mr. McComb there ?— A. I think Mr. McComb was there. 

Q. Did Mr. McComb give you any explanation as to what he had 
done with the money ? — A. He did not, and I believe he had not 
much to do with it. They claimed that they had spent the money 
down here in Washington, a good part of it, and Durant claimed, I 
think, that some of it was spent in compromising a complicated matter 
with some other railroad, I think with the eastern division. But the 
whole thing was entirely unsatisfactory to me, and I refused to give my 
assent to it, or to sign any report. 

Q. And there was nothing specified in any of those vouchers that 
could enable you or any member of the committee to know for what 
purpose that money had been expended ? — A. No, sir ; Dr. Durant re- 
fused to give; me any satisfactory explanation. I remember that Mr. 
Hazard, a large stockholder in the Union Pacific Bailroad Company, 
not a director, I believe, but one of the executive committee of the 
Credit Mobilier, was not only dissatisfied, bat made a very great oppo- 
sition to it, which culminated in a suit that he brought on his own ac- 
count in the courts of Bhode Island to recover this amount. 

Q. Had the committee not understood, or at least strongly suspected, 
at the time you were investigating this suspense account, that that 
money had been applied for improper purposes ? — A. If we had believed 
their declaration it wonld have been so, but I do not think we did. 

Q. Was it declared there that the money had been applied for im- 
proper purposes ? — A. They stated that it was a secret, confidential 
matter, and that they could not reveal what had been done with all the 



312 CEEDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

money in detail, but they said that it had been spent chiefly down here 
in Washington. I inferred from what they said that the newspaper 
folks got a good deal of it, and then they said that they had compromised 
these railroad claims. Their explanation was exceedingly unsatisfac- 
tory. 

Q. Was not their explanation to the effect that the money had been 
used to get certain legislation through Congress, to wit, the amendment 
of 1864?— A. I do not think that that was stated. 

Q. Was not that your understanding of it from all that occurred 
there at that time % — A. My belief and my understanding (and I think 
that belief was shared by most of the others) was that the money was 
not spent at all, or any considerable portion of it. 

Q. Did they not claim that they had used it here for the purpose of 
influencing that legislation % — A. No, I do not think they did claim as 
much as that. I know that I asked them if any of this money had 
gone to members of Congress in any way, and they denied that it had 
except in one instance, and that we did not believe in. 

Q. In what instance was it that they claimed that money had gone to 
a member of Congress % — A. Durant said to me that Mr. Thaddeus 
Stevens had got $80,000 of it indirectly. 

Q. Did he mention anybody else who had got any of it \ — A. No, sir; 
he did not tell me of anybody else, and it is but just to Mr. Stevens's 
memory to say that I do not think there was a man of us who believed 
a word of the statement. 

Q. Then it was claimed there that that money, or some portion of it, 
had gone for improper purposes % — A. That much of it. 

Q. Was there any explanation as to the balance of it I — A. No further 
than what I have stated. 

Q. They said it was secret and confidential and that they could not 
reveal? — A. Durant said to me that they could not reveal any further 
than that. I would not say that they said positively that the news- 
paper folks had got a good deal of it, but still I have got that impres- 
sion. 1 remember that Durant said he had compromised these railroad 
matters and that they had cost a good deal. 

Q. Did he say anything about what newspaper men had got any of 
it % — A. No, sir. I should hardly wish to say that that was one of the 
reasons given by him. It is only an indistinct impression that I have 
of it. When we called him up to know what he had done with the 
money, he was very unwilling to answer, and he answered what he did 
with very great reluctance.- 

Q. You had a voucher of Mr. BushelFs there also, did you not % — A. 
My recollection is that that voucher of Bushnell's was not a voucher, 
but a certification that one account was right to his knowledge. 

Q. What account was that % — A. I have forgotten. It was a moder- 
ate amount — a very few thousand dollars, I think ; I should say ten or 
fifteen thousand dollars. 

Q. What was Mr. Bushnell's explanation of that item I — A. I do not 
know that I ever heard him make any explanation. 

Q. You say he certified that it was satisfactory to him. Did you 
simply take this vague statement to that effect and pass it over in that 
way f — A. I tell you that I was not satisfied with hardly any part of it. 

Q. Did you not press Mr. Bushnell to know what that was for % — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Did he tell you ?— A. I think that that was for a bill at Willard's 
Hotel. My impression would be that it was about ten thousand dollars, 



CREDIT M0I3IL1EK AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. , 313 

and for a bill that was paid at Willard's. We were pretty well satisfied 
that that bill was a fair one and not objected to, I think. 

Q. How long had these gentlemen been here in Washington? — A. 
They were here quite a length of time. I think they were here most of 
the winter. 

Q. Did Mr. Durant have an itemized account of the bill at Willard's ? 
— A. O, no, I think not ; there was nothing, I believe, itemized ; 
everything was in gross. 

Q. What other bills did you have there ? — A. 1 do not recollect any 
other bills. 

Q. Did anybody else certify that any bill was correct? — A. I think 
Mr. McOoinb did ; I am not certain. 

Q. What was the amount of the bill that he was certifying to? — A. 
It was quite a moderate amount. 

Q. About how much ? — A. Perhaps about the same amount as Bush- 
nelPs, but perhaps less ; I do not know. 

Q. What was it for ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. Was that a hotel bill ? — A. I really do not know. 

Q. Was it a newspaper bill? — A. No, I do not think it was a news- 
paper bill, or I should have remembered it. 

Q. Can you not recall what this $10,000 item of McComb's was for ? — 
A. I do not know that it was $10,000; it may have been $5,000 or 
$6,000, or it may have been $15,000. I would not state that positively, 
either. 

Q. What is your best impression that that was used for, as you gath- 
ered it from that investigation? — A. I can hardly say that I have any 
impression as to the character of it. 

Q. Have you no lingering, indistinct impression about it ? — A. I have 
not, not the slightest. The whole matter was so unsatisfactory and dis- 
gusting to me that I refused to sanction i^ or to have anything to do 
with it. 

Q. It looked to you as if there had been so much money either wasted 
or improperly used, or improperly withheld from the company ? — A. 
Yes, sir ; it did. 

Q. But nevertheless the committee, without having any evidence as 
to its being a correct account other than what you have stated here, 
allowed that account of $435,000 ? — A. No, sir ; this committee, I think, 
never reported. 

Q. But it was afterward allowed ? — A. I do not think so. 

Q. You think it still stands unsettled ? — A. I think it stands just in 
that way. I know that Mr. Hazard has brought a suit against Dr. 
Durant for it in the courts of Rhode Island. 

Q. So far as the books of this company are concerned it has been set- 
tled on the books ? — A. Yes, sir ; Dr. Durant had the whole control of 
everything, and paid it himself, at the time it was paid out, and we 
could not get it back. 

Q. Has not the Union Pacific Railroad Company since allowed that 
suspense account? — A. Not to my knowledge. 
By Mr. ShellaBAEGER : 

Q. This record shows the suspense account to be composed of the fol- 
lowing items : 

1864, August 1, T. C. Durant $44, 549 45 

1864, August 25, T. C. Durant. . 4, 000 00 

1864, September 1, T. C. Durant 66,325 00 

1864, September 14, T. C. Durant 13, 128 13 



314 CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

1864, September 14, T. C. Durant $6, 500 00 

1864, September 20, 0. S. Buslmell 5, 751 63 

1864, September 26, G: T. M. Davis 3, 000 00 

1864, September 29, Innes O. Kennedy 2, 000 00 

1864, September 29, Alexander Hay 4, 000 00 

1864, September 30, T. 0. Durant 50, 000 00 

1864, September 30, T. C. Durant 8, 000 00 

1885, March 31, T. C. Durant 30, 000 00 

1865, March 31, Durant 5. 500 00 

1865, March 31, H. C. McOomb 1, 000 00 

1865, December 29, T. 0. Durant. ........ 112, 000 00 

1866, March 30, special committee 50, 000 00 

1866, May 10, special committee 20, 000 00 



Aggregata 435, 754 21 



Then follows the report of the special committee, which I will read to 
you : 

u To the board of directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company : 

" The undersigned special committee, appointed by the resolution of 
this board passed January 4, 1867, respectfully report that we have in- 
formed ourselves as to the details of the accounts, of which the forego- 
ing is a settlement, and have found that the several amounts were paid, 
as above contained, on proper authority of the board and on proper 
vouchers, and that the facts in the premises are satisfactory to us. 

" OLIVEE AMES. 
" J. J. CISCO. 
" New York, September 11, 1867." 

" On motion of Mr. McComb, 

" Resolved, That the report of the special committee, in reference to a 
certain suspense account, be approved and adopted, and that the said 
accounts be closed and charged to construction.'' 

By the Chairman : 

Q. The account that has been read to you was the account which was 
under investigation at the time you have spoken of when you were a 
member of the committee ? — A. Yes, sir ; I think so, but cannot recol- 
lect distinctly. I was not a member of that committee and not in the 
direction then. 

Q. The amendment that is commonly known as the amendment of 
1864 was approved on the 22d of July, 1864, was it not % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did not these items, that have been read to you, have reference to 
expenditures that were made at the time the legislation of 1864 was 
pending % — A. A large portion of them were alleged to have been ex- 
pended in 1862 and 1864; most of them, I think, in 1864. I never be- 
lieved, however, that they were spent. 

Q. Do you recollect an item of that account under the head of "special 
committee, $50,000 V— A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you recollect of hearing anything said about that special com- 
mittee 1 ? — A. No, sir; Ineverheardanythingabout.it. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. State to the committee whether in this investigation of yours you 
interrogated Mr. Durant particularly about these large items that were 
in his account. — A. Yes, sir. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 315 

Q. Did you interrogate him about what he did with that $112,000 that 
appears in his account as on December 29, 1865 ? — A. I presume so, but 
I do not recollect what his answer was. I only remember the general 
terms of it. 

Q. State to the committee what account he gave to you, as a member 
of that committee, of what was done with that $112,000! — A. I do not 
recollect particularly about that item, or about any other item in par- 
ticular. 

Q. You cannot state to us anything he said to you in reference to the 
item of $50,000 of December 3, 1864 ?— A. No, sir ; what I remember is 
entirely confined to the general account. 

Q. So that you can give us no information as to either one of the items 
of his account, as derived from what he said about it himself? — A. No, 
sir ; I cannot. 

Q. State, then, what you can tell us about his statement touching the 
aggregate of his account. — A. I have stated that as nearly as I can 
recollect. He stated that it was spent down here mostly ; that there 
were some legal expenses in it, and* that a considerable portion of it was 
used in the compromise of those railroad claims. 

Q. How much did he claim to have paid out in compromising these 
railroad claims ? — A. That I do not know. 

Q. Did it cover any considerable part of it? — A. He claimed that it 
did. 

Q. Why should that have been suppressed or made secret? — A. It 
should not have been. 

Q. Why did he say that he would not give you any account in detail 
of those very large items ? — A. He merely stated that he regarded it as 
private and confidential, and that he had spent the money under the 
authority of the board at the time. But he was really and practically 
the whole board. 

Q. He claimed that he had spent it under the authority of the 
board; please state what that authority was — how broad it was. — A. I 
was looking at that resolution the other day, and if you let me see the 
books now, 1 think I will find it. (After looking over the book.) I can- 
not find, it, but I think I can give you the substance of it. I think 
that in April, 1861, a resolution was passed by the board of directors of 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, (I only know this from the records, 
as I was not a director for a long time afterward,) authorizing a com- 
mittee to go to Washington and procure additional- legislation, and that 
such expenditures (I think the words used are "such proper expendi- 
tures") as might be necessary should be borne by the company. That is 
my recollection of that resolution. Then, when this $112,000 was put 
on the account, a resolution was passed sanctioning that as being in 
accordance with a resolution of the company passed in April, 1861, if that 
is the date. That is my recollection of it. I was only looking at that 
the other day. I saw that item and hunted the matter up. 

Q. Your memory is that the resolution authorized proper expenditures 
in securing additional legislation ? — A. That is my recollection of the 
resolution, which I never saw till the other day — say within ten days from 
this time. 

Q. You have stated that in investigating the details of this account 
Mr. Durant said to you that they had expended the money under the 
authority of the board, but that there were confidential expenses which 
he declined to reveal to the committee. Is that right? — A. That is 
substantially as I understood it. 



316 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Did lie give any reason why it was improper to communicate even 
to the board what was done with that money ? — A. No ; he did not. 

Q. Was there anything said about a large portion of that money 
having been handed over to a lawyer by the uame of Stewart ? — A. I 
think there was. 

Q. Did he state to you anything about what kind of vouchers Stew- 
art had rendered to the committee that was sent to Washington or to 
Mr. Durante — A. He said that Mr. Stewart had rendered proper vouch- 
ers for the whole. 

Q. Did he produce to you these vouchers, or did you ask him to do 
so % — A. I cannot say as to that ; I do not think he presented them. 

Q. Why did he not, if he did not ? — A. That I do not recollect, and 
I am not sure that we asked him. 

Q. So that the result of your investigation was that you found out 
nothing whatever in relation to what was done with that money except 
this general statement contained in your answer as to some of it having 
been spent in compromising with railroads and other portions of it spent 
upon newspaper men j and that is as far as you can go in giving any 
account? — A. My impression is that we found out just about as much 
as this committee found out the other day when examining Mr. Durant; 
I was here and heard his testimony. 

Q. Did your committee make a report to the board of directors of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company of the result of your investigation of 
that suspense account f — A. They did not. 

Q. Why did they not %— A. Because there was such a difference of 
opinion, I think; and then I do not think it was a committee of the 
board ; my recollection of it is that it was a sort of informal commit- 
tee appointed, or rather requested, for the satisfaction of all parties, to 
act in the matter. It consisted of some of the prominent stockholders 
as well as directors ; I know that Mr. Oakes Ames was on the commit- 
tee, and was in consultation with us, and he was not a member of the 
board of directors of either company at that time, but was merely 
brought in and consulted as a prominent large stockholder. 

Q. Have you given, in answer to the chairman, the names of the mem- 
bers of that committee ? — A. I think not. 

Q. Please state their names.— A. I only remember Mr. Oakes Ames, 
Mr. Hazard, myself, I think Mr. Dillon and Mr. McComb, and, I rather 
think, Mr. Oliver Ames, but I really do not remember with much dis- 
tinctness their names. 

Q. Can you state anything about a resolution ordering a committee 
for the purpose of examining this expense account, with a provision 
that their action and settlement should be final % — A. There never was 
any such resolution passed to my knowledge. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. What do you know about an item of $126,000 known as ''special 
legal expenses F — A. I know nothing about it ; that was after I left the 
board. 

Q. Have you not been present at any meeting of the board when that 
account was investigated ? — A. No, sir ; I think that that was after I left 
the board. 

Q. Were you not at any time a member of the board when a commit- 
tee was appointed to investigate that $126,000 item % — A. No, sir. 

Q. What do you know in relation to an item of $50,000 for legal ex- 
penses 1 — A. I was in Mr. Cisco's office one day about the time that they 
were after Mr. Oliver Ames, at the time of the Pisk raid, as we call it. 



CREDIT MOBILIEK AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 317 

Mr. Cisco was treasurer of the company at the time. While sitting at his 
table, Mr. Fullerton and Mr. Tracy, counsel to the company, and Mr. 
Bushnell came in and spoke to Mr. Cisco, and said they would like to 
say a word to him. They went up to one corner of the room and whis- 
pered together. I did not hear what they said. Then they called Mr. 
Oliver Ames, and he went up. Mr. Oliver Ames came back to me and 
said that Mr. Fullerton and Mr. Tracy said that that suit could be set- 
tled lor $50,000. Mr. Ames said that it was outrageous to black-mail 
us in that kind of a way. I told him I thought so too, and said I, u So 
far as I am concerned I never will give it my approbation, and I advise 
you to have nothing to do with it." "Well," said he, "I shall not have; 
I do not believe in it." That was his expression. These gentlemen 
whispered together still longer, and Mr. Ames and I went away. A 
few days afterward Mr. Ames told me that they had taken that money, 
and that it was obtained from Mr. Tattle, the assistant treasurer, and 
he was quite indignant to think that it should be taken in that way. 
We could not learn much about it, how it was disposed of, or what was 
done with it. I think that nearly a year afterward we called Mr. Cisco 
to an account, and he said that he knew nothing about it, further than 
that it was paid to counsel on an order from Mr. Oliver Ames, and 
under the advice of Mr. Bushnell and Mr. Alley. I went right down to 
see Mr. Cisco, and asked him what he meant by stating that. I said 
that I had had nothing to do with it, that they did not consult me, 
and that all I knew about it was what Mr. Oliver Ames told me after 
he came back from consultation with them, and that I had advised 
Mr. Ames not to have anything to do with it, and not to pay the 
money, because we regarded it as a black-mailing affair on the part of 
Fisk and his folks. Mr. Cisco said, " Well, it is some time ago, and I 
am mistaken about it. I thought that you assented to it." I said, 
"No; I never did." He said, " Undoubtedly you are right about it." 
But it was so long ago that he had forgot the exact circumstances. 
Then, when they impeached Judge Barnard somebody brought that up, 
and they called on Mr. Bushnell and Mr. Fullerton to say what was done 
with that money. There was a suspicion that a portion of that money 
went to Judge Barnard. Both of them stated, however, so I was told, 
under oath, that it was paid to Fisk, and that Fisk agreed to withdraw 
the suit and settle the whole thing; but that for some reason or other 
he did not choose to do it, and, to use their expression, " went back on 
them." That is all that there is to that, and I think that is all that 
anybody knows about it. 

Q. Is that all you know about it ? — A. That is all. 

Q. You have no personal knowledge where the money went, and no 
information further than what you have stated? — A. No, sir; it was 
very unsatisfactory to us, and we tried to trace it out ; but that was all 
that we could tind out about it. 

Q. Do you know of any money having been paid out of the funds of 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company or of the Credit Mobilier to aid 
in the election of any other person to the Senate of the United States 
or to the House of Representatives than what you have spoken of in 
action with Senator Harlan? — A. No, sir. The Credit Mobilier 
never paid a dollar, nor the Union Pacific Railroad Company, while I 
was connected with them, for any such purpose, to my knowledge. 

Q. Have you any information of anything of that sort having been 
done with reference to any other Senator or Representative of the 
House? — A. j^o, sir; I never heard anything of the kind. 

Q. Did you ever hear anybody demanding that $10,000, or any other 



318 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

sum of money, should be sent anywhere for aiding in the election of a 
United States Senator ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you never hear of anything of that sort ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever hear any member of Congress declare that if $10,000 
was not sent for the purpose of securing the election of a United States 
Senator, he would make it cost them as many million dollars, or some- 
thing to that effect ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever hear of anything of that sort before ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you ever said that you had heard anything of that kind? — 
A. No, sir ; of course not. 

Q. Not to anybody ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever tell anybody that General Butler had made a demand 
of that kind ! — A. No, sir ; I never did. 

Q. Did you ever hear of General Butler having made such a demand 
as that ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. This is the first you ever heard of it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You were a member of the board of directors in 1868 % — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. I wish to call your attention to an entry on the journal on the 3d of 
January, 1868 ; u C. M. of America, debtor. To cash for and on account 
of agreement with them for contract, $1,104,000.'- You will find a cor- 
responding entry on the ledger. Do you know what that refers to? — 
A. (After examining the entry.) No, I do not know what that refers to. 
I presume that that refers to that contract, but I do not know. 

Q. Do you know for what that $1,104,000 is ! — A. I do not. I had 
never anything to do with the books. 

Q. Look at this entry on the record-book of the trustees of the Qakes 
Ames contract, page 24, (quoted in Mr. Oliver Ames's testimony.) — 
A. (After reading it.) I do not know positively what that refers to, 
I think I can explain it, but I may be mistaken. 

Q. I would like to have your explanation of it as you understand it. — 
A. My imprestion is this : when the change took place in the disposition 
of the Credit Mobilier, we turned out Mr. Durant and his party. They 
had controlled the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. The Credit Mo- 
biliar was expecting to have a contract with the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company, either directly or indirectly, to finish the balance of the road, 
but Mr. Durant stated that he never would consent to let the Credit 
Mobilier have another contract, because they had turned him and his 
party out, and that the road should never be built by and through the 
Credit Mobilier, neither should the Credit Mobilier have anything to do 
with it. That he said to me and to other managers. Still the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company had absorbed nearly all the capital of the 
Credit Mobilier. They owed the Credit Mobilier two or three million 
dollars. The Credit Mobilier felt that it ought to have a contract 
to go on and build the road inasmuch as it had put all its capital 
into it, or nearly all, and as the Union Pacific Eailroad Company was 
in its debt. The Credit Mobilier had bought a good deal of iron 
and materials, and furnished means to purchase all the materials 
that had gone into the road. When the Credit Mobilier found that 
it was impossible to* get a contract, with the state of feeling that 
Dr. Durant was then in against the Credit Mobilier, and when it was 
concluded to give a contract to Mr. Oakes Ames, then the Credit 
Mobilier felt very much aggrieved that it should be deprived of what 
it regarded as its rights and privileges, having put all of its money 
in there with the expectation of getting the contract, and having really 
furnished the means and used its credit and loaned its money to the 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 319 

Union Pacific Railroad, which enabled the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany to build this amount of road that was afterward put in with Mr„ 
Oakes Ames's contract. After a good deal of talk and controversy, and 
some ill-feeling about it, it was afterward concluded to compromise the 
matter; and the directors of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company felt 
that under the circumstances, inasmuch as they had got this capital 
from the Credit Mobilier and were unable to pay it back, it was nothing 
but just and right, on the whole, to give them the profits on the portion 
of that road, 58 miles I think it was, which they regarded as the profits, 
because the Credit Mobilier had actually realized but little on the 247 
miles which they had built. It was finally concluded to fix it up in this 
way as a matter of justice and right all round, and the Credit Mobilier 
claimed whatever profit there was on that 58 miles, and I presume that 
that resolution refers to that and was on account of that claim ; but still 
I do not know. I cannot understand that it can belong to anything else. 
That is my version of it in my own mind. I cannot say that I know 
anything from personal knowledge. If I knew at the time I have for- 
gotten about it. Yery likely I did know all about it at the time. 

Q. That was a very large sum of money and not a matter very likely 
to be passed over without attracting your attention? — A. No. I say that 
is my explanation of the matter, in my own mind. 

Q. I find this same resolution in another record. ISTow, I would like 
to get your explanation as to what this expression here means : " To 
enable them to make the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
held by them full paid 1 ?" — A. In looking at this, I am still more con- 
firmed in the opinion that my explanation of it is correct, and that it 
refers to that contract. I think that the expression, " to enable them to 
make the stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company held by them 
full paid," refers to this, (still I do not know it, but it is only a matter of 
inference from facts that I do know :) Some time before I came into the 
direction, a year or two before, there was a sale of a large amount of 
stock to the Credit Mobilier, on which $30 a share had been paid ; and 
the Credit Mobilier assumed it. Then they sold it, I believe, to the 
stockholders of the" company for some $6 a share, subject to future calls. 
I presume that that $1,104,000 was appropriated in that way to make 
that full-paid stock. I do not know of anything else that it would apply 
to, and it certainly would apply to that very properly. It is a mere in- 
ference with me. 

Q. But this stock, according to the terms of the law, was to be full- 
paid stock to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company % — A. It was. 

Q. Every share of stock was to be paid for, dollar for dollar, was it 
not % — A. It was. » 

Q. Then, why was it that the $1,104,000 was not paid to the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company, instead of to the Credit Mobilier % It was the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company that was entitled to be paid, dollar for 
dollar. — A. Yes; and the Union Pacific Eailroad Company got dollar for 
dollar at the time the stock was issued. (After reflection.) No, that cannot 
be, either. I will tell you howl suppose it was : When the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company was first started, they made their subscriptions and 
then made their several assessments upon those subscriptions. This 
stock that was transferred to the Credit Mobilier had been assessed only 
30 per cent., the same as the others. It was all assessed alike. There 
was a good deal of stock that was issued in the first period of the enter- 
prise in that way, and 1 believe that that portion of the stock .subscrip- 
tions was taken and assessments laid, and these assessments amounted 



320 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

in the aggregate to 55 per cent., I think; but at the time this right 
(which was merely a right) was transferred to the Credit Mobilier, there 
had been only $30 a share assessed on it. I think it refers to that. 

Q. Who did you understand held this railroad stock that was to be 
full paid under this resolution ? Was it held by the Credit Mobilier, or 
by these trustees ? — A. That I cannot say ; I do not recollect. 

Q. That was a very large transaction. Can you not iix it in your 
mind in any way ? — A. Not at all. If there had been anything wrong 
about it, I should. But if the transaction had been as much as 
$5,000,000, and if at the time I found it all right and correct and un- 
derstood it, it would pass out of my mind, and I should not be likely to 
know anything about it at this late period. If, however, there had been 
anything wrong about it, I am quite sure I should have recollected it. 
If there had been an item of a million of dollars entered on these books 
in any way irregularly, or if there had been any impropriety in it in 
any way, I have no doubt that I should have recollected all about it. 

Q. It is so entered here as to be utterly incomprehensible to you now, 
is it not ? — A. No, not exactly incomprehensible, because I explain it in 
my own mind by referring to this matter. 

Q. But yon explain it, not from the entry on the books, but from a 
vague sort of recollection that you have ! — A. Yes, sir ; that is it. 

Q. You could not take those books and account from them for this 
large transaction *?— A. No, not so far as an explanation of the books is 
concerned. I judge from what I know of those two matters and the 
resolution. The resolution is rather indefinite. 

Q. The item is charged up to the account of contract on the ledger and 
journal ? — A. I know, and I have no doubt that it is all correct. Still, 
I do not know anything about it. I had nothing to do with the books. 
I used to look over them occasionally, and if there had been anything 
wrong in them at the time I should have noticed it. 

Q. I wish you to state to the committee how this stock was issued by 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and in what way the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company ever got full pay for that stock which was issued by 
the company — $36,000,000. — A. I have no idea that" a dollar of stock 
was ever issued by the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and a certifi- 
cate given, that was not fully paid. If there is anything of that kind I 
never knew it. There certainly never was while I was a director. 

Q. You say you believe that this stock was full paid, every share of 
it ?— A. Every share of it. 

Q. I wish you to state now in what way the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company ever got full pay for that stock. — A. It was paid for in cash, 
as I understand it. 

Q. Do I understand you to say that $38,000,000 and more was paid 
into the treasury of the Union Pacific Railroad Company on account of 
stock in actual cash? — A. I have no doubt of it if there have been cer- 
tificates issued to that amount, because the law provides that that shall 
be done. 

Q. Do you not know as a fact that that never was done, and that no 
such sum* as that in money ever did go into the treasury of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company on. account of stock issued 1 ? — A. I think it 
did. I not only do not know that it is not a fact, but I believe that the 
fact is that every dollar of that stock was paid for. 

Q. In what way was it paid "? — A. I know that so far as the Credit 
Mobilier subscriptions were concerned, (and that is all I know about it 
personally,) we paid for the stock in cash or checks. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 321 

Q. Was it not done by checks instead of cash ? — A. I do not know, 
only from what I have hear'd of the testimony here. 

Q. Then why do you say that you believe that every dollar of this 
$36,000,000 was paid in cash to the treasurer of the Union Pacific Kail- 
road Company — why do you make that statement ?— A. If you owed me 
$10,000, and if you sold me a house for that amount, and if, instead of 
getting the money on your check for the $10,000 you owed me, I gave 
you back your check in payment for your house, I should say that I had 
bought and paid for it $10,000. 

Q. But you would call that a paper transaction, and not a mere hand- 
ling of money ? — A. In one sense it would be a paper transaction, and 
in another sense it would not be. 

Q. Is it not a fact that contracts were made for the construction 
of this road, and that the contractors agreed to take Union Pacific Rail- 
road stock in payment for portions of the work done under the con- 
tract ? — A. I think that was the fact. I do not know that anybody dis- 
putes it. 

Q. Then, in consideration of this contract, the stock was issued to the 
contractor. If the Credit Mobilier were the contractor or the assignee 
of the contractor, the stock was issued to the Credit Mobilier ; or if a 
board of trustees were the contractor or the assignee of the contractor, 
then the stock was issued to the board of trustees. Is not that the way 
it was done \ — A. Yes. 

Q. Then, instead of the Union Pacific Railroad Company getting 
money for its stock, it got the performance of the contract in payment for 
the stock % — A. 2s o, sir ; it got what was the same to it as money. 

Q. I am asking you for a fact and not for an opinion. Is it not a fact 
that the Union Pacific Railroad Company, instead of getting money — I 
am talking about money, not checks or drafts — instead of getting 
money for its stock, got the performance of a contract % — A. I have told 
you the exact facts, which you have already in your possession, and I 
do not know why you want them repeated. If these men contracted to 
build and equip this road for $42,000 per mile, and were to take pay in 
bonds and stock at par, then you may say that that stock was appro- 
priated in payment of this coutract. Now the question arises 

Q. I am not talking about questions ; is that the fact % — A. That is 
the fact. 

Q. Then it is a fact that the money did not come into the treasury of 
the company ? — A. I know that in many instances the money did so far 
as the Credit Mobilier is concerned. 

Q. I am talking about the stock issued to the contractors or the as- 
signees of the contractors. So far as that stock is concerned was the 
money paid into the treasury % — A. That I cannot tell you about. I know 
that they took the advice of the most eminent counsel in New York, and 
chat counsel advised them that a bona-fide debt against the company was, 
in their judgment, equivalent to money, and answered the provisions of 
the law. Whether the counsel were mistaken or not in that advice, 
that is not for me to say. 

Q. Well, you acted upon that advice ? — A. I had nothing to do with 
it ; they did, I presume. 

Q. The business was transacted in accordance with that advice? — A. 
I presume it was ; I have no doubt of it, and in some instances — I re- 
member one instance in particular where some money was due the 
Credit Mobilier and stock was issued to them in payment, and in this 
/.nee I speak of, Mr. Cisco— I think it was he— was so particular 
21 c M 



322 • CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

« 

that they deposited the money — actual money, no checks — and then paid 
for the stocks. There were several instances of this kind, but I know 
of only this one. The counsel told him it was all folly to take such 
trouble as that; that if there was an actual debt due from the company 
it was cash in the eye of the law, and that both morally and legally it 
was all right. 

Q. And that was the way the business was done ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Are you familiar with the letting of any of these contracts for the 
construction of the road? — A. I was familiar with the letting of the 
contract to Oakes Ames. 

Q. Had you no connection with the letting of the contract to Hoxie ; — 
A. That was before my day, and I had nothing to do with it. 

Q: Now, when you let rms contract to Oakes Ames, what was Jhe 
stock worth % — A. 1 do not think there was any market value to it at 
all. 

Q. What was it estimated to be worth % — A. Well, different prices. 

Q. About what % — A. Mr. Ames thought it was worth 100 ; Mr. Haz 
ard thought it was worth 80, and bought some at that price. I think it 
was generally regarded as being worth a great deal more than it turned 
out to be ; that is my impression. 

Q. Was it not generally regarded as being worth 30 cents on a dol- 
lar % — A. It was so regarded by some. 

Q. Was it not the generally received opinion that it was worth only 
30 cents on the dollar? — A. That price was arbitrarily fixed for the 
adjustment of some claim, where they were going to distribute stock 
among the parties in interest, but I do not think that was regarded as 
the market value or the intrinsic value of the stock. 

Q. Was that sum arbitrarily fixed with reference to the letting of the 
Oakes Ames contract % — A. No, sir ; it had nothing to do with the 
Oakes Ames contract ; my impression is that it was fixed with reference 
to making a dividend in the Credit Mobilier Company. 

Q. Was it or not understood at the time the Oakes Ames contract 
was let that the stock was not worth par % — A. I do not think it was re- 
garded as worth par by anybody except Mr. Ames ; he was very san- 
guine about it. 

Q. When the Oakes Ames contract was made, was there any margin 
allowed in the amount per mile which was to be paid for the building of 
the road on account of the fact that the stock was not worth par, and 
that a portion of the stock was to be taken in payments on the con- 
tract ? — A. That I cannot say. 

Q. You heard Mr. Ames's testimony on that point last Saturday night, 
did you not % — A. I think I did. 

Q. Was that testimony correct according to your recollection I — A. lit 
what part? Some things were not in accordance with my judgment. 

Q. I am speaking more particularly in reference to the matter I have 
just been interrogating you about — the value of the stock in connection 
with the price agreed to be paid for the construction of the road. — A. I 
do not remember what he valued the stock at. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. He valued the stock at about thirty per cent, as near as he could 
state ; he thought it was regarded at about that in making the Oakes 
Ames contract. — A. I think he is mistaken about that, but I do not 
know. I should say that his estimate of its value at that time was 
much more. I know that thirty per cent, was merely taken as an arbi- 
trary figure for the. purpose of settling with the Credit Mobilier, 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 323 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Was it not quoted at that time in the papers ! — A. No. sir j there 
were no quotations : it had no market value. 

Q. Was the stock on the market ? — A. No, sir ; I think not. Mr. Haz- 
ard bought some at 80 just about that time, and I remember saying to 
him that if he wanted any more I would sell it to him at that price. 

Q. The fact I wish to direct your attention most particularly to is 
whether or not, in making the Oakes Ames contract, the price per mile 
agreed to be paid for the construction of the road was increased because 
the payment was to be made in stock that was below par. — A. That I 
cannot say, but I have no doubt it was so. I was opposed to the con- 
tract. 

Q. I want to ask you how that can be reconciled with fair dealing to 
the Union Pacific Eailrod Company. The Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany was to have dollar for dollar for its stock, but if the price of con- 
structing this road was increased simply because this stock was worth 
but 30 cents to the dollar, then the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
would not get dollar for dollar for its stock % — A. It would not practi- 
cally. , 

Q. Well, it is practical matters we are dealing with now. — A It 
would not practically; that is so. 

Q. Then, if you have any explanation to give why this kind of an ar- 
rangement should be entered into, whereby the Union Pacific Eailroad 
should not get dollar for dollar for its stock, notwithstanding the law 
provided that the stock should be paid for, dollar for dollar, I will be 
glad if you will state it to the committee. — A. I have stated in my tes- 
timony heretofore given here that when that proviso was put into the 
bill requiring that the stock should be paid for in full, and that the books 
should be kept open until the one hundred millions was subscribed, and 
that they should be kept open in all the large cities of the Union until 
that amount was subscribed, or the road finished— ,1 said, when that 
proviso was put into the bill, to many members of Congress, al- 
though I went for the bill and was very anxious to have the road built, 
I said that that provision was one which it was utterly impracticable 
to carry out literally ; that it was not possible to build a railroad under 
such a provision. After they had attempted to build the road, and it 
had broken down, and they could not go on with it, and the parties in 
interest who had put in half a million of dollars said they preferred to 
lose all they put in rather than jeopardize more, Mr. Ames came to me 
and I told him that that provision was fatal to the building of the road ; 
that no road could be built under such conditions. He said to me that 
he knew that very well, but that they could build it under a corporation. 
Mr. Ames and some of the rest of us were then building roads in. Iowa 
under a contracting company, which required the expenditure of four, 
five, or six million dollars. Fifty individuals could get together and 
agree to build a road for five or six millions of dollars, paying in their 
money to a common treasury ; and they were very certain that the road 
would be put through and they would have their money back again. 
But when it came to a road which would cost seventy or eighty million 
dollars, no contracting company would be safe in taking such a responsi- 
bility upon them. Therefore they resorted to a contracting company 
with corporate powers, namely, the Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency, which 
was afterward changed to the Credit Mobilier, and they went on and 
built two hundred and forty-seven miles of road, and were prevented 
from going on farther, for reasons'! have given, because Dr. Durant and 
his party, who controlled the Union Pacific Railroad -at that time, would 



324 CKEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

not allow us to go on farther, and said that the Credit Mobilier should 
not have anything to do, directly or indirectly, in the further building 
of the road. We never received one dollar of profit from it, and the 
stock of the Credit Mobilier, so far as enjoying dividends were con- 
cerned, was not worth, except as a basis of determining the amount 
of interest which you could take in the Oakes Ames contract, more than 
your or anybody else's note. It was just worth one hundred cents on 
a dollar and no more, the day after the agreement was signed, and no 
dividends were drawn on it. 

Q. You are getting away from the point to which I was directing your 
attention. I want to know what explanation you have to give why the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company did not get dollar for dollar for its 
stock. — A. That is the explanation that I give. Practically that could not 
be carried out. The road was built just as all other railroads are built, 
and I do not see how there was any wrong done to the stockholders of 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, when all consented to it, and all 
participated in it to an equal degree, and no director, trustee, or any 
other party had any advantage that was not shared in common by every 
stockholder of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 

Q. You say the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
all consented to it ? — A. Yes, sir ; every man of them. 

Q. The stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company and the 
stockholders of the Credit Mobilier were the same persons, were they 
not % — A. They happened to be substantially the same ; they were not 
so necessarily. 

Q. Was it not the understanding at the outset that they should be 
identically the same. % — A. No, sir ; nothing of the kind. That contract 
was given to Mr. Ames without reservation or qualification, as, I think, 
be will tell you. I think I know about that, because there was a great 
deal of discussion on the subject, in which I participated, because I was 
opposed to it. 

Q. If there were any persons who were stockholders of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company, and were not stockholders of the Credit Mo- 
bilier, it would be a fraud on them, would it not } — A. It would, if the 
contract price was exorbitant, unless they consented to it; but we had 
this understanding before signing the contract, and certainly eveisy 
candid man must see that it is perfectly fair ; we offered to every stock- 
holder of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company their pro rata proportion 
just the same as the others had. If they did not choose to go in, we 
would buy their stock from them. They were all perfectly satisfied, and 
if there was any wrong done to anybody, I cannot see it. 

Q. Those who didn't go in, you bought out their stock f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. So you made the two practically the same ; that is, composed of 
the same parties 'i — A. There was no design in it. 

Q. But that was the fact ? — A. The fact is, that the stockholders of 
the Credit Mobilier and the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company were substantially the same ; yet that had nothing to do with 
the contract. 

Q. I am not speaking about that ; those who didn't go into the Credit 
Mobilier you bought out of the Union Pacific ! — A. Not all of them. 

Q. Who were left out ? — A. I forget now. 

Q. How did you make this thing even or fair with them ? — A. Well, 
they were settled with to their satisfaction ; some got a considerable 
proportion of profits under the contract. 

Q. How did they get any profits if they did not go into the Credit 
Mobilier f — A. They got it by an understanding. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 6zb 

Q. You had some private understanding, then, with some of them? — 
A. No, I do not think there was any private understanding. None to 
my knowledge. 

Q. What was this understanding by which they were to get their 
share when they didn't go into the Credit Mobilier 1 — A. I do not know ; 
there was a general understanding to do what was right with them, and 
make them satisfied. 

The committee here took a recess for one hour. 

On the re-assembling of the committee, Mr. Alley's examination was 
resumed. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Have you any further explanation to make as to whether or not, by 
this mode of letting these contracts, the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
received but 30 per cent, of its capital stock that was issued in payment 
for the construction of the railroad $ — A. I believe I got through on that 
point, except I would say this : the stock was not taken at 30 per cent., 
and that was not understood to be its real value ; it was to be determined 
in the future what its value was. 

Q. I understand your version of this matter to be that, when you let 
the contract, it was at such a price that the stock that should be received 
by the contracting parties in payment on that contract should only cost 
them thirty cents on a dollar ? — A. I do not mean to say anything of 
that kind. 

Q. Do you not mean to say that, when they let the contract, they in- 
creased the price per mile, so that the stock should only cost these par- 
ties thirty cents on a dollar or some sum less than par ? — A. I suppose 
this to be the case, that, whatever profit there was in that contract, would 
nearly all of it be in the stock, and it was very problematical what that 
stock would be worth. In the estimation of some, it would be worth 
par ; in the estimation of others, 50 per cent. ; in the estimation of others, 
30 per cent. 

Q. It was understood, however, that it would be worth less than par, 
and therefore the price at which the contract was let was correspond- 
ingly increased ; is that the fact? — A. That was the fact in the estima- 
tion of some. 

Q. Was not the basis upon which the Oakes Ames contract was made, 
that the stock was understood to be worth less than par, and the con- 
tract price was increased correspondingly * — A. I suppose it to be the 
case as with other railroads. When men take contracts to build rail- 
roads, and agree to receive bonds and stocks or whistles and traps for 
their pay, they calculate to get a greater sum than they would if it was 
solid cash right on the nail. I have no doubt about that, if that is what 
you mean, and nobody else can have. 

Q. Then it was upon that theory or idea that this contract was let ? — 
A. No, not to the extent that contracts are generally let. 

Q. Did that idea enter into this contract, no matter to what extent! — 
A. Well, it probably did in the minds of some, but I do not know that 
it did in Mr. Ames's mind. Mr. Ames is a very sanguine man; he be- 
lieved the shares to be worth a great deal more than I did. 

Q. If such is the fact, will you explain how it is the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company got dollar for dollar for its stock? — A. Because they 
were paid cash for it in the indebtedness of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company to these parties, and a debt against the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company was as good to them and was as good to anybody, and 
has been up to the present time, as cash. 



326 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. But that debt was incurred by this contract ? — A. Of course it was 
made by contract. Could any railroad be built without making a con- 
tract and incurring some debt? I am telling you just as I understand 
it. I say plainly and distinctly, when I took that stock I did not be- 
lieve it to be worth one hundred cents on the dollar ; but some were 
more sanguine than I was, and I have no doubt that the contract was 
made and the price set upon it somewhat different than it would have 
been if the consideration was bona-fide cash instead of stocks and bonds, 
because the stock was really worth, at one time, comparatively little, 
and the bonds would not have brought anything like par. 

Q. If I understand you now, the price was increased because of the 
depreciation of the stock 1 — A. I am not saying that ; I am only telling 
you what was in my own mind as to the value of it. I do not think it is 
quite right to ask a witness to state the exact facts, just as they are, and 
after he does state them, fully and completely, to then require him to 
give an opinion, as a matter of inference, upon what other men in the 
company intended ; which opinion is to be construed against the proper 
interpretation of the law. 

Q. I do not want any opinion in regard to the matter ; I am trying to 
get the facts. — A. I have certainly stated all the facts or have intended 
to do so, and have given as good an explanation of it as I am capable of. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. I understood you to say to the chairman that this stock, issued to 
the Credit Mobilier or its stockholders, was paid for by them in cash in 
effect. Now I wish to ask you this question ; you used the expression 
a while ago that a contractor taking his pay in whistles and traps was 
not expected to take it as low as if he got the hard cash. Now, suppose 
that the Credit Mobilier sold to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company for 
one hundred thousand dollars a whistle, to use your expression, and 
gave a check for it in payment, in order that that check should then be 
passed over in payment for stock ; would you deem that a payment for 
the stock in cash or a substantial compliance with the law requiring the 
stock to be paid for in cash ? — A. No, sir, I should not ; I should think 
they were paying pretty dear for their whistle. 

Q. Now, suppose that this whistle that you speak of was a contract 
sold by the Union Pacific Eailroad Company to the Credit Mobilier at 
twice what it was worth in cash, would that transaction, although paid 
by checks, be equivalent to a payment of cash to the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company for its stock % — A. That would depend upon circum- 
stances. 

Q. I have stated the circumstances in my question ; I desire simply 
to understand you. — A. State your question again. 

Q. Suppose the price of the contract was augmented to double what 
it could have been let for in cash, and then the transaction was consum- 
mated by giving checks. to each other as you have described, would you 
deem that equivalent to a payment in cash for the stock of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. No, sir, I would not; not under those 
circumstances. 

Q. Therefore, if there was any putting up of the price of this work be- 
yond what it could have been got for in cash, owing to the fact that the 
contractor had to take his pay in what you call traps and whistles 

The Witness. I beg your pardon. I did not use the phrase traps and 
whistles in reference to Mr. Ames's contract. I spoke of other railroads, 
and was using it only as an illustration. 



CREDIT M0BIL1ER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 327 

Mr. Shell abakgker, (continuing.) If there was any putting up of the 
price of the work, owing to the fact that he was to take part of it in 
stock, then you would not deem the stock as sold for cash, as required 
by the charter, would you 1 — A. I would not quite say that. If you 
mean to ask whether that contract would have been taken any lower for 
the cash down, without any reference to bonds or stock, I say I presume 
it would. That, perhaps, answers your question. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Were you in the direction of the road at the time of the Oakes; 
Ames contract ? — A. I was not. 

Q. You had no relation to the Union Pacific Railroad Company other 
than that of a stockholder ? — A. I had not. 

Q. Do you remember what amount of stock you then had ? — A. I think 
I owned one thousand shares. 

Q. Were you one of the original subscribers ? — A. I was not. 

Q. How did you acquire this stock — tliese one thousand shares 1 — A. 
My impression is that I purchased it of the Credit Mobilier ; I believe 
it was stock that came to them under the Hoxie contract ; that is my 
impression. I could not tell you exactly without reference to the books. 

Q. You got it as a dividend ? — A. No, sir, as a purchase. 

Q. What did you give for it ? — A. I have forgotten now. I think it 
was $4 a share, upon which $30 had been paid. I do not rempmber 
exactly about it ; that is my impression. 

Q. Did you engage to pay the other $70, or was that to be paid by 
the Credit Mobilier under this contract ! — A. I do not remember how 
that was. 

Q. You had 1,000 shares, amounting to $100,000 at par ; this was 
just before the execution of the Oakes Ames contract. Now, there had 
been paid by the Credit Mobilier $30,000 on those one thousand shares ? 
— A. I said $30 a share ; that is my recollection. 

Q. Well, somewhere in that neighborhood, and that amount had been 
paid under some construction contract ; it had not been paid in money, 
without any paying back ? — A. That I cannot say. It was some time 
before I was director, but my impression is that it was obtained in that 
way. 

Q. Well, you got for $4, in that way, what $30 had been in some 
manner paid for according to your recollection ? — A. Yes, sir ; if I am 
right in my impression in regard to the way in which \t was obtained. 
I am not certain of it. 

Q. Did you at anv time pay to the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
in cash the balance on that $100,000, the $70,000 ?— A. Certainly not. 

Q. Was it not paid under these construction contracts in some form 
or another ?— A. It is my impression that it was; I think that resolu- 
tion I have referred to provided for that. 

Q. The stock was so much depreciated at that time that what counted 
for the payment of $30,000 on the shares you held you were in reality 
enabled to acquire by the payment of $4,000 ! — A. No, I should not say 
that. 

Q. Is not that substantially what you have stated ? — A. No, because 
it was paid for by the Credit Mobilier ; and I, being a stockholder in 
that corporation, paid my pro-rata proportion. I paid it out of one 
pocket and put it in the other. 

Q. Did it ever cost you more than $4 a share in cash ? — A. I suppose 
that it cost me $100 in that indirect way. 



328 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. But in any direct way it didn't cost you more than $4 f — A. I only 
say $4. That is my impression. 

Q. Did you regard the payment for this stock of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company by a check by the Credit Mobilier on these trustees, 
which was applied on the construction contract, as of any real impor- 
tance ? Did you not understand that the substance of that transaction 
was that the stock was paid for in road-building ? — A. I have said that 
as many as three times. 

Q. I put it as preliminary to something else. — A. I say just this : We 
were instructed by the most eminent counsel in New York that that 
was a compliance with the law, and we believed it to be so ; and I say 
further, as I have said before, that a literal compliance with the law 
would have rendered it impossible to build the road ; and we would have 
no Pacific Eailroad to-day if we had been held to the literal terms of the 
law. 

Q. That is just what I want to bring out. You understood that this 
was really a payment for that stock in road-building ; and you further 
regarded it, did you not, that the amount so paid for the stock in road- 
building differed from its nominal par value in cash by the difference of 
the estimation which the contracting parties put upon the value of that 
stock compared with its actual cash value % — A. I think so, to a very 
great degree. 

Q. »Now, I understand you to say, as your justification, or as your 
explanation of that matter, that that was the common method of build- 
ing railroads, where the statute contained this provision for payment in 
cash, the contractor taking part of the stock in payment on his con- 
tract ? — A. Yes, sir, invariably ; so far as I know. 

Q. That is one ground of justification $ another, as I understand you, 
is, that if the statute requiring the payment for this stock to be in cash, 
and leaving open to the public the right to subscribe up to $100,000,000, 
had been literally complied with, it would have been impossible to build 
the road ?— A. That is what I have stated. 

Q. And, further, I understood you to say that you were instructed by 
eminent counsel, upon whose advice you relied, that the course you took 
was a compliance with the law ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you ever seen, or do you know whether that opinion of emi- 
nent counsel is in existence now, in writing ? — A. I do not know. I do 
not know whether it was given in writing. 

Q. Was it given to you by these eminent counsel % — A. Mr. Tilden, I 
know, told me that he regarded it as a compliance with the law. 

Q. Was that advice given to you personally ? — A. Not to me, par- 
ticularly. I was talking to him, and he said, incidentally, that he re- 
garded it in that light. 

Q. Do you know whether that opinion was shared in by other coun- 
sel % — A. I think Judge Allen told me the same — I know I talked with 
him about it — and I have heard others express the same opinion. 

Q. Can you ascertain whether those opinions were in writing, and, if 
so, whether they can be produced and laid before the committee 1 — A. 
That I do not know. I can only say that I am not connected with the 
road, and have no interest in it, and I do not know why I should be 
required to hunt up this evidence. 

Q. We do not want you to hunt up this evidence ; I merely ask you 
for a statement of facts. — A. I have given the facts as they occurred, 
according to my recollection. 

Q. The fact that these gentlemen supposed that they were complying 
with the law, and were so advised by eminent counsel upon whom they 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 329 

relied, although it would not change the law, would be a very impor- 
tant point in this case, in my mind ; and I therefore ask you to state 
carefully all you know about it, and whether you know if that opinion 
can be produced % — A. I doubt whether it was ever given in writing. 
Now, while on this point, 1 would like to give you an illustration. Un- 
der the old State law of Massachusetts, when a bank was chartered, it 
was always required that the amount of the stock should be paid for in 
specie, and that no bank had a right to go into operation until all the 
specie was paid in, and whenever a bank was organized and ready to 
go into operation, commissioners were appointed to count the gold and 
silver. I have assisted in the organization of a good many banks under 
that law, have been a director in several, and was once or twice ap 
pointed a commissioner by the governor to make this examination; and 
it was invariably the case, when the bank was organized, that they would 
go around to all the neighboring banks, and obtain for an hour or two 
enough specie to make up the required amount, and lug it into their 
vaults. It was then really in their possession, and the ownership for 
the time being was vested in the new bank. The commissioners would 
then come in, and count it all over, and certify under oath that the required 
amount of specie was paid in. As soon as they were gone, the specie 
would be mostly carried back to the other banks, and all the great law- 
yers held, and the courts, I believe, held, that it was a literal compliance 
with the letter of the law, or such a compliance as answered the pur- 
pose, and all must see the impracticability of the law in going beyond the 
custom. Now, in building railroads by means of construction companies, 
there is something done in the same line, only in the bank case it is a 
literal compliance with the letter of the law, and in the railroad case 
with its spirit. I only use this as an illustration. 

Q. Perhaps your statement is entirely correct, except so far as the 
last part of it is concerned, that the lawyers and courts held that that 
was a compliance with the law % — A. Well, I don't know about the 
courts, but all the banks were organized under the advice of counsel, 
and you know what lawyers some of the big banks of Boston have. 

Q. I do not suppose that any responsible lawyer gave an opinion that 
that was a compliance with the law ? — A. I don't think that there was 
any bank organized in Massachusetts — and I suppose that you and I 
consider her people as moral as people anywhere — I don't think there 
was a bank organized under that State law for fifty years on any other 
basis or principle than that. 

Q. Don't you think that, if the bank had proceeded to divide that 
cash among its stockholders, the other banks would have scolded a lit- 
tle % — A. I think they would, but if you mean to make any application 
of that kind to this case, you do an injustice. 

Q. No ; I am merely looking to see if it is really their property. — A. 
You don't mean to insinuate that the property that these men divided 
in what they called dividends did not belong to them I 

Q. No, sir; I had no reference to them. I had nothing of that kind 
in my mind. — A. I don't see, then, that there is any significance in your 
remark. 

Q. I don't think it necessary for you to comment on the significance 
of my remarks. I was merely carrying out your illustration. Were 
these transactions of the Credit Mob'ilier made public ?— A. What do 
you mean by made public % 

Q. I mean what you mean by made public. — A. They were well know;i 
to everybody so far as I had any knowledge. As I stated before, I wa>, 
entirely opposed to the whole thing so far as the dividends were con- 



330 CREDIT MOBILJER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

cerned. I saw no wrong In it to anybody, unless they wronged them- 
selves. 

By Mr. SWANN : 

Q. Is It the custom now in the State of Massachusetts — for I consider 
that State badly dealt with by the opinion you have just given — when- 
ever the Secretary of the Treasury orders an inspection of the national 
banks, which he does from time to time, for these banks, whenever they 
are short of the required amount of specie or currency, to go to another 
bank which may be hard by, and borrow the amount of specie or cur- 
rency which is necessary to make up their balance-sheet 1 — A. No, sir ; 
I do not mean to say any such thing, or intimate any such thing. 

Q. Would you not consider that a fraud upon the public? — A. Why, 
certainly I should. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. By the assignment of the Oakes Ames contract, it was stipulated 
that the parties who were to participate in the dividends or avails of 
that contract should sign an irrevocable proxy, authorizing these trustees 
to vote six-tenths of the stock they held in the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company ? — A. Yes, sir ; until the completion of the contract. 

Q. Was this six-tenths more than a majority of the stock of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company! — A. I do not know how that was. 

Q. Was it intended to be a majority of the entire stock of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. I do not know that it was intended to 
be. It was regarded as sufficient to control the company, with the addi- 
tional stock that was owned by themselves individually. 

Q. And they were to give an irrevocable proxy to vote not only the 
stock they owned then, but the stock they acquired by virtue of the 
Credit Mobilier ? — A. The object was to keep control, and I think every 
consideration of prudence required it, over the road until the contract 
was finished. 

Q. Were these proxies given ? — A. Yes, sir ; I believe so. 

Q. Do you know who held these proxies I — A. I think Mr. Oliver 
Ames, chairman of the board of trustees, held them. 

Q. Do you remember that, at a meeting held in New York on the 27th 
January, 1868, you offered a resolution that was adopted, authorizing 
Oliver Ames to vote these proxies!— A. I presume so, if the record 
says so. I have no recollection of it. 

Q. Do you know for what length of time Mr. Ames held these proxies 
and used them? — A. I do not think they were ever used but once. 

Q. Were they not used twice ?— A, In 1868 they were used for the 
first time. I think Mr. Ames testifies they were used in 1867, but he 
must be mistaken, for at the annual meeting In 1867 they had not been 
completed ; and I do not think they were used in 1869, but they may 
have been. 

Q. But it is a fact that the proxies were given in pursuance of the 
Ames contract ! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then the parties who held the Union Pacific stock and the Credit 
Mobilier stock were the same parties substantially ! — A. They were when 
the Oakes Ames contract was made. They shifted very much afterward. 
I should say in 1868 they were not. 

Q. But that is substantially the fact, is it not ? — A. It was before the 
Oakes Ames- contract was signed. 

Q. Was it not after the Oakes Ames contract ? — A. It was not at the 
time of the election. 

Q. Still, the effect of the execution of these proxies was to place the 



CREDIT MOBILIER ASTD UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 361 

control of the Union Pacific Railroad entirely into the hands of these 
seven trustees to whom the Oakes Ames contract was assigned? — A. 
That was the object of it. 

Q. Well, that was the effect of it, was it not ? — A. It must have been 
if they held a majority of the stock. 

Q. So, if it turned out to be a fact that they held a majority of the 
stock, then, by virtue of this irrevocable proxy, the entire management 
and control of the Union Pacific Railroad was taken away from that 
corporation and put into the hands of these seven trustees I — A. No, 
sir ; not all. 

Q. Well, they held the voting power I — A. They held the voting power 
provided they held a majority of the stock. 

Q. My question is predicated upon the supposition that they did have 
a majority of the stock. — A. The record will show how that is. 

Q Did not the Hoxie contract extend from Omaha to the hundredth 
meridian, and was not two hundred and forty- seven miles of the road 
built under that contract ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And after that contract had been completed and the road built up 
to the hundredth meridian, there was a proposition to extend the con- 
tract over fifty-eight miles more of the road ! — A. I do not know that 
the proposition was made. I know that it was expected they should 
have the contract for extending the road. 

Q. But there was a proposition to extend the contract over that fifty- 
eight miles of the road ? — A. I have an impression that there was ; I 
am not positive. 

Q. At the time this effort was made to extend the contract over this 
fifty-eight miles of road, had not that fifty-eight miles been already con- 
structed and accepted by the Government"? — A. That I do not know. 
It was built really by the Credit Mobilier, and with their funds. 

Q. I am not talking about who built it ; had it not already been ac- 
cepted by the Government ? — A. That I cannot say. 

Q. Do you remember Dr. Durant filing a protest against the exten- 
sion of the Hoxie contract over this fifty-eight miles of road ? — A, I do 
not. 

Q. Were you not connected with the road at that time ? — A. I do not 
remember ; I do not know what the date was. 

Q. Do you know what that fifty-eight miles of road had cost I — A. I 
do not know. 

Q. When the Oakes Ames contract was made, had there not been 
one hundred and thirty-eight miles of road constructed and accepted 
by the Government west of the hundredth meridian? — A. I do not know. 
1 should say very nearly that. 

Q. Had there not been a very considerable amount of track laid that 
had not been accepted by the Government — between eighty and one 
hundred miles % — A. That I cannot say anything about. 

Q. My object in putting these questions is to give you an opportunity 
to explain to the committee why it was that the company gave a contract 
for the construction of one hundred and thirty-eight miles of road that 
had already been constructed and accepted by the Government? — A. I 
do not know that I can tell exactly, but my recollection of that is, that 
it was expected, as I have said before, that the Credit Mobilier would 
go on and complete the road, and it had purchased a large amount of 
materials, and paid for them, and the capital of the Credit Mobilier had 
been almost entirely absorbed by the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
in the building of the road, &c. There was quite a contention about 
the settlement of this claim, the Credit Mobilier contending that they 



332 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

ought to have whatever profit was made on so much of the road as had 
been built up to that time, inasmuch as it had really J^een built by 
them, they having furnished the material, money, credit, &c. There 
was quite a dispute about it, and I think it was compromised by giving 
them the profit on fifty-eight miles, and the Oakes Ames contract in- 
cluded the other portion of it for the benefit of the trustees or the par- 
ties in interest. Then there was some grading to be done, and the 
road was to be equipped ; for, although accepted by the Government, * 
there was a great deal to be done to put it in a condition to satisfy the 
Government directors. I remember talking with Mr. Williams about 
it at the time, and he agreed that there was a great deal to be done. 
These two reasons are the only ones 1 know of why that portion of the 
road was included in the contract. 

Q. Do you mean to say that that contract was extended over the one 
hundred and thirty-eight miles of road in order to give the Credit Mo- 
bilier a profit upon the construction of that portion of the road ? — A. I 
was an officer of the Credit Mobilier at that time, and not an officer of 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, and I contended very earnestly 
for much more than we got. I remember that I thought, and so did 
Mr. Hazard, and, I believe, Mr. Dillon, that we should have had more 
than was allowed. 

Q. More than the $42,000 per mile?— A. No ; more than the fifty- 
eight miles that we had really practically built ; and that we were enti- 
tled to the profits, whatever they were. 

Q. How did you get at the profits ; you had no contract, and the road 
had been built? — A. I suppose the road, equipped and all, did not cost 
more than $33,000 or $34,000 a mile on that part of it, and they were to 
have $42,000>a mile. There would be a profit of $8,000 or $9,000 a mile, 
which we thought we were entitled to. 

Q. But this Oakes Ames contract had not been made then? — -A. I 
know ; but we had gone on and built the road and furnished money an d 
labor. For instance, I had no connection with the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company at all j was not a director in it, but I was a director in 
the Credit Mobilier, and during that time I raised for the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company millions of dollars ; and I felt, and we all felt, that 
the Credit Mobilier was entitled to some consideration, and entitled to 
some profit on the building of the road, which we had really, in point of 
fact, built, although we had no contract. 

Q. Is " profit" the word to use, then ; could you have a profit when there 
was no agreement for the construction of the road, but you had gone on 
and built it without a contract ? — A. The understanding was, that we 
should have a contract, and, in fact, I believe a contract was made with 
Mr. J. M. S. Williams, with the expectation that it would be transferred 
to us as the Hoxie contract was, and we went on and built the road 
with our money and our efforts. I know that I was there all summer. I 
had no connection with the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, but I was in 
the Credit Mobilier, and it was my duty to look after their interests, and 
when we had raised millions of money for the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company, we felt that we were entitled to whatever profit there might 
be on this road that was built with our money. 

Q. Does it not all amount to this, that, when the road had been built, 
you then fixed the contract-price with reference to getting a profit on 
that part of the road k— A. I suppose the contract-price was $42,000 a 
mile. 

Q. But when you built the road, fche£e was no contract-price? — A. 
Ko, sir ; only in anticipation. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. ddo 

Q. You had built the road for whatever it had cost, and when you 
made the contract after it was built, didn't you make it with a view 
of fixing the amount of profit which the Credit Mobilier should have ? — 
A. I don't think so at all ; I think it is just this way : we had built the 
road practically ; the Credit Mobilier had furnished the money to build the 
whole two hundred and forty-seven miles, as we conceived, or, at any rate, 
for a large portion of it, and we felt that we were properly entitled to 
whatever profit there was on building that road. If the contract-price 
was $42,000 a mile, and we failed to get the contract, and some one else 
got it, we thought we ought to have the difference between that cost and 
the contract-price. The Union Pacific Eailroad Company didn't agree 
with us, but finally compromised the matter, and allowed us a profit on 
fifty-eight miles, which was not really as much as we in the Credit Mo- 
bilier thought we ought to have had. 

Q. Let me put the question in this form : When did you find out how 
much profit had been made on this road west of the hundredth meridian ? — 
A. I do not know particularly about that, but that was easily done. The 
equipment and all did not cost over $35,000, and the amount paid was 
$42,000, and, as we furnished the money and did the work, we felt we 
were entitled to the profit. 

Q. When did you find out the contract-price was $42,000 ? — A. I sup- 
pose that was done by agreement after it was agreed to compromise the 
matter. 

Q. Was it not when the Oakes Ames contract was made ! — A. No, sir ;. 
it was some time afterward. 

Q. After the Oakes Ames contract was made % — A. I think so ; these 
trustees relinquished, after quite a controversy, to the Credit Mobilier, 
the profits on fifty-eight miles of the road. Under the circumstances,, 
they felt it was no more than right. 

Q. In other words, if I understand you, the Credit Mobilier were 
claiming an interest in the Oakes Ames contract ; and claimed that part 
of the profits under that contract should be transferred to them because 
they had furnished the money % — A. They claimed it as a matter of 
right. It was not in that form at all ; I am telling you exactly how it 
was, the Credit Mobilier furnished the money for building the road. 
Afterward Dr. Durant said we should not have a contract to build 
another inch of the road, but still we went on and built the road, with 
the expectation that the doctor would finally yield and concede it to us, 
but he did not do so ; and as the Union Pacific Eailroad Company had 
spent our money, and we had gone on and built the two hundred and 
forty-seven miles of road with that expectation and belief, we felt that 
we were entitled to consideration. We demanded it ; it was resisted ; 
and finally the matter was compromised by allowing us the profits on 
fifty-eight miles of the road, and the trustees agreed to relinquish the 
profits under the Oakes Ames contract on so much of the road. 

Q. Did you estimate the profits according to the stipulations of the 
Oakes Ames contract ? — A. That I do not know ; I do not know how it 
was estimated. 

Q. You had to get at what the profits were in some way? — A. Yes,. 
sir. 

Q. There was no other contract at the time the Oakes Ames contract 
was made % — A. I presume it was on that basis. I cannot see how it 
could be in any other way. They made this contract with J. M. S. Wil- 
liams ; that was knocked over, and we were building the road in the 
expectation that they were going to give us a contract. 

Q. Then there was some more of the road that had already been built, 



334 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

and accepted by the Government — the difference between this fifty 
eight miles and one hundred and thirty miles; what reason was 
there for embracing that eighty-eight miles in the Oakes Ames con- 
tract ? — A. As I understand it, they wanted to cover the whole amount ; 
it was very much mixed up. That part of the road was much easier to 
build, and although it had been accepted by the Government, it was not 
completed ; it had to be equipped. The profit on all would not be very 
much, and they felt that it ought to be put in, as the other end of the 
road was so much more expensive than this — more hazardous and risky — 
and it seemed to them no more than fair and right to include that. ^No- 
body was wronged; it was all with themselves. They were all stock- 
holders in the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and these stockholders 
and nobody else got the profits. 

Q. According to your idea, if they had let it for $100,000 a mile, no- 
body would have been wronged? — A. Nobody would have been wronged, 
except in case the security of the Government had not been good; then 
the Government might have justly complained, although I do not see 
how they could under the circumstances, because they had the first lien 
after the first-mortgage bonds, and if it had cost $500,000 a mile, I don't 
see how the Government could be wronged. 

Q. And if they let it for $42,000 a mile, when it ought not to cost 
$35,000 a mile, you don't see how anybody was wronged u ? — A. I don't 
see how they were. It was built in the interests of the stockholders of 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and the profits were divided in 
pro-rata proportion among those stockholders, and if anybody was 
wronged, I don't see it. 

Q. The first dividend made by this board of trustees was made on the 
12th of December, 1867, was it not? — A. I think it was; that is my 
recollection. 

Q. From what source did the trustees derive the assets from which 
they declared that dividend % — A. I believe that was estimated profits 
on the road which had been constructed. 

Q. Up to the time when the Oakes Ames contract was made % — A. I 
don't know that it was up to that time. 

Q. Whatever was divided then, was the estimated profits on that con- 
struction ? — A. Of course it must have been ; I don't see any other source 
it could have been obtained from. 

By Mr. Shellabargker : 

Q. The amount of that dividend appears to be GO per cent, of bonds of 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and 60 per cent, of stock of that 
company ; is that right according to your recollection % — A. If the record 
says so, it must be right ; I have no recollection about it. 

Q. What class of bonds was it that were divided ?— A. First-mortgage 
bonds. 

Q. Then a dividend was ordered on the 3d January, 1868, of 20 per 
cent, in first-mortgage bonds ; what did that arise out off — A. Out of 
estimated profits on the Oakes Ames contract. 

Q. July 8, 1868, cash dividend of 30 per cent. : did that arise out of 
the same thing % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. July 3, 1868, allotment of bonds, 75 per cent. ; that arose out of 
the same contract? — A. That was in anticipation of profits, and they 
issued certificates for bonds. 

Q. There was another allotment December 18, 1868, 100 per cent. ; 
that arose out of the same contract % — A. Yes, sir ; that w T as in stock . 

Q. The whole amount of dividends declared during these periods foot 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 335 

up, according to the paper banded me by the clerk, $19,842,724 ; does 
that sum represent profits on the Oakes Ames contract ? — A. I think 
this was the actual state of the case ; they represent in stock and bonds 
the nominal profits upon that Oakes Ames contract of forty-seven mil 
lion dollars, and it was distributed with the understanding, and, I 
believe, written condition, that if the money was required to complete 
the road, that they would pay back the amount. 

Q. Pay back how much ! — A. They would pay back whatever they 
received, or they would furnish a sufficient amount of money to finish up 
the road ; and my impression is that they made dividends upon esti- 
mated profits which were never realized to the extent that they supposed, 
and all those parties who were able to had to put their hands in their 
pockets and furnish millions of dollars before they got through, in con- 
sequence of having divided these sums among the subscribers ; I was 
entirely opposed to the whole thing ; I told them what would be the 
result in the end, and they found it was so. They were very sorry, the 
responsible men of the contract, that they made this dividend of sup 
posed profits when really they were not profits. 

Q. Then these divisions resulted in such an impoverishment of the 
road that persons interested in the road had to return millions in order to 
finish it up? — A. I did not mean return; they loaned several millions, 
and it has been a source of misapprehension from that day to this, as I 
predicted it would be at the time. 

Q. These loans from the friends of the road to complete it, and which 
were made necessary by these dividends which you deem improper, were 
they 

The Witness, (interrupting.) I beg your pardon ; I did not say im- 
proper; impolitic they were; there was no impropriety in it, because 
nobody was wronged, unless it was themselves. 

Mr. Shell abarger, (continuing.) Were they secured to the persons 
making the loan; and, if so, how? — A. They were secured partly, and 
partly not ; and then they had to 

Q. Now, just stop. How were they secured, in so far as they were 
secured ? — A. Well, I think the money was mostly raised by the pur- 
chase of securities. 

Q. What securities % — A. Land-grant bonds ; income-bonds. 

Q. Then this loaning back to complete the road that was necessary 
by. these prior dividends was accomplished by gentlemen getting land- 
grant bonds, selling them, and using the proceeds to finish the road? — 
A. To finish the road and pay their debts. 

Q. Now, what was the effect of these dividends which have beea 
enumerated upon the value and solvency of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company and its stock ? — A. It had no effect whatever upon the value 
of the road and its stock that I am aware of, except in this way : Of 
course it increased the indebtedness of the road, and I think its solvency 
would have been hazarded at that time if it hadn't been for the pecu 
niary assistance rendered by its directorsrand stockholders, and friends 
immediately interested in the road; and the premature division of these 
profits occasioned a temporary embarrassment which they had to lift the 
road out. of, and for which they alone suffered ; nobody else was wronged 
in any way, shape, or manner, by that act of theirs," which I regarded 
then, and do now, only as an error of judgment. 

Q. Suppose that, instead of making these divisions of bonds, stock, 
and cash, these assets that were donated by the Government to secure 
a great solvent corporation for all time, had been invested properly and 
preserved as the property of the railroad company, what, in your "judg- 



33j6 credit mobilier and union pacific railroad. 

ment, would have been the effect of such investment and preservation 
of the assets upon the value of the stock 1 — A. Its stock would have 
been enhanced in value ; but it was a matter in which the Government 
had no interest, and could not suffer. 

Q. You are now giving an opinion of law that we are not inviting. 
That is a question that we will have to deal with as a purely legal ques- 
tion. I am now asking simply for the facts. You say that the effect of 
investing these assets would have been to enhance the value of the 
stock ! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In former answers you have referred to the manner in which 
railroads are usually constructed ; do you know of any practice by which 
dividends to stockholders are made in amounts greatly in excess of the 
net earnings of the road ?— A. I should say that, so far as dividends 
upon stock was concerned, there could not have been any made properly 
except out of the earnings of the road. But this, you understand, is a sup- 
posed profit upon the construction of 'the road, which was perfectly 
legitimate, in my judgment, and proper to divide. 

Q. Did any of the counsel to which you have referred in your former 
answer, ever advise you that such dividends as have been made in this 
case would be a compliance with the charter of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company 1 — A. I think that the contract was made, and the divi- 
dends declared, and everything that was done was done under the advice 
of good counsel. -i 

Q. Did ever any of these counsel advise you that the payment by 
work under contracts, where the prices of the contract were greatly aug- 
mented by reason of such dividends as these, would be an equivalent in 
law to the payment for this stock in cash ? — A. I do not know that they 
ever did in those words, but in effect they did. 

Q. Well, I will ask my question in another shape. Did you ever con- 
sult with and obtain opinions from lawyers that, if dividends were made 
so as to reduce the value of stock to 30 per cent, or thereabouts, and 
then the price of the contracts for work was put up in proportion as the 
stock had been thus reduced in value, and you took your pay for stock 
in work thus augmented, that would be a compliance with the require- 
ments of the statute 1 — A. I do not think it was ever put to them in 
that form. If it had been, I don't know what their answer would be. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Do you know what was the cost to Oakes Ames or to those to 
whom he assigned the contract for building the road, including the part 
that had already been built % — A. I cannot tell exactly, because I have 
been out of the road a great while, and I have nothing to go by. The 
assignees can tell you exactly. I suppose that in clean cash it cost 
about thirty millions ; that is my opinion. 

Q. How much did they obtain from the Government in bonds on that 
distance? — A. I think an average of about $25,000 a mile. 

Q. And they got the same amount on their first-mortgage bonds % — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That would make about $33,350,000 from these two sources, with- 
out resorting to any issue of stock, deducting whatever difference there 
was between the par value of the bonds and what they would sell for in 
the market? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you agree with the other witnesses that the average discount 
on the Government bonds and the first-mortgage bonds was about 10 
per cent. ? — A. I think so, on the whole. 

Q. Then, deducting 10 per cent, from their value, would leave- 



CREDIT MOBILIEK AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 337 

-^30,015,000 as the net amount that would be realized from those bonds S 
— A. Yes, sir. Then you will have to add to the cost quite a large sum 
for interest during the time the road was being constructed. 

Q. Interest on what? — A. Interest on the cost. The company, you 
know, were paying large sums for interest on the money used for build- 
ing the road. 

Q. Well, that has nothing to do with what I am trying to get at. 
Now, if you had a piece of road to build which would cost $30,000,000, 
and had resources at your disposal in bonds to the amount of $30,015,000, 
why would it be necessary for you to resort to this roundabout way of 
a corporation to build the road, and to issue stock giving the contract- 
ors a profit of $12,000,000 1 — A. I never thought it was necessary. I 
was always opposed to it. I never thought it wise or proper. 

Q. You never thought it was necessary, with those resources, to resort 
to that contrivance ? — A. Not that particular contrivance. 

Q. Now, as I understand it, the problem was before the company 
of building this six hundred and sixty-seven miles of road, which 
would cost $30,000,000. They had resources on hand in Government 
bonds and first-mortgage bonds to the amount of $30,015,000. What 
was to hinder them from going on and building the road with 
those resources, without resorting to this complicated machinery 
of the Credit Mobilier, with its trustees, railway bureau, &c, and 
without making these dividends of stock in the way you have de- 
scribed 1 — A. I was entirely opposed to the Oakes Ames contract, and 
to the building of the road in that way and with that machinery. I 
did not think, however, that it would be possible to build the road 
without the intervention of a contracting company, or a company 
possessed of corporate powers like the Credit Mobilier, aud for this 
reason: Although the company had in prospect these resources of 
•■$30,000,000, yet it was necessary to expend vast sums of money, and to 
use individual credit in order to build the road before any considerable 
amount of those resources could be realized. The Government itself 
was very slow, very dilatory indeed, in the issuing of the bonds, and 
sometimes the company would have millions of dollars due them before 
they could get a single bond out of the Government. All of you gen- 
tlemen who have had any experience with the Government know how 
slow they are. 

Q. W r hat was the average length of time, in your judgment, which in- 
tervened between the time of the expenditure of money in the con- 
struction of the road and the realizing of cash from the Government 
bonds ? — A. I could not say exactly, but I should say several months. 

Q. How many months ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. Would you think six months? — A. No; I should say, certainly, 
three or four months. 

Q. Then, was not this $12,000,000 of profits, or whatever you may term 
it, simply expenditure by the company to obtain credit for three or four 
months on the amount which they would realize from the Government 
bonds and their first-mortgage bonds? — A. No; let me explain: The 
company was deeply involved in debt at that time. It had absorbed 
nearly all the capital of the Credit Mobilier, amounting to several mil- 
lion dollars, which it owed to them and was unable to pay. It was in 
such a condition — its credit was such — that it could not raise the means 
to build the road on the anticipation of these resources, which it ulti- 
mately obtained, because the capitalists of the country had very little 
confidence in those securities, or in the road itself. Pledges were made 
to vast amounts bv the company at 40 or 50 cents on the dollar, and, I 
22 c m 



338 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

believe, in some instances, as low as thirty -five cents ; and it required 
not only all the resources of the company, but what they could com- 
mand of the individual resources of the directors and large stock- 
holders, and their individual credit was used to a vast amount. But 
for those things the road at that time would have gone into bank- 
ruptcy ; and under those circumstances these men took that contract 
and put it through, and were induced to do so partly to save the money 
which they had in already to the amount of several million dollars, 
and partly in the hope and in the anticipation of making a reasonable 
profit in the future. Now, with regard to the contract with Oakes 
Ames, I tried to induce him not to accept it; but he did accept it, and 
his view of it then was this: That we could command those resources 
and sell those bonds at such a price, and the stock at such a price as 
would give him and those of us who should go in with him a clean jjrofit 
of at least 20 per cent. : and, I think, at one time he thought it would 
realize 25 per cent. The ultimate result, as I figured it out and made 
oath to in a court in Pennsylvania, was that between eight and nine 
million dollars of profit were realized, which would be about 16 or 17 
per cent, upon the whole contract, which was performed by those men 
at a prodigious cost of labor, and an immense amount of capital raised 
and furnished by them ; and, I think, the profit realized was very mod- 
erate for the risk taken, and the amount of labor and capital expended, 
and the length of time employed in the use of that capital. 

Q. I understand you, that when the contract with Oakes Ames was 
made, there was no agreement that anybody else should share in that 
contract with him % — A. No, sir. 

Q. Then, of course, there was no agreement at that time that the road 
should have the benefit of anybody's private credit to extricate it from 
the financial difficulties it had previously incurred? — A. No, sir; but I 
suppose that was expected to be done. Mr. Ames, of course, didn't ex- 
pect to take a contract for $47,000,000, and put it through himself. He 
expected to have in some shape or in some form the assistance of the 
capitalists of the country, and generally it was his idea to have the 
assistance of those who had been his former associates, who would share 
in the benefits of the contract and also incur the risk of losses. I think 
that was his idea. The company expected, 1 have no doubt, that he 
would associate with himself some other parties, and that they would 
be able through their means and their credit to put the road through. 

Q. You say the road, at that time, was indebted to the Credit Mobil- 
ier? — A. Yes, sir; and has remained so ever since, and it has not yet 
seen the time that it could comfortably pay that indebtedness. 

Q. Do you mean to say that the road was bankrupt ? — A. No, sir. I 
mean to say that it was like many other roads that have difficulties and 
lean very largely upon the principal stockholders and directors, who 
have to use their private means and private credit to sustain them. 
And the knowledge of that fact and the belief that that will continue 
makes the stock and securities of the Union Pacific Eailroad as valua- 
ble as they are to-day. But for the belief and knowledge of that fact, 
these securities would not be worth one-half what they are to-day. 

Q. What securities do you speak of?— A. I mean the stocks and 
bonds of the road. 

Q. What are the bonds worth to-day '? — A. Well, since this investiga- 
tion began, they have depreciated considerably. 

Q. What were they worth about December 1? — A. I think the first- 
mortgage bonds were worth about 90 and the land-grant bonds about 80. 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 339 

Q. How much was the stock worth ? — A. The stock was worth about 
38. 

Q. Then you think that the road, under its present management, is 
in such a condition that the mere effect of having the facts about its 
existence known to the country, and the withdrawal of the private 
credit of individuals, who are under no obligation to add their private 
credit to that of the road, would be to reduce its stock to 19, and its 
first-mortgage bonds to 45 ? — A. Undoubtedly it would, and I say that 
without any disparagement to the road. It would apply to a great 
many very excellent roads to day. 

Q. Who are these persons whom you have in your mind as the pres- 
ent supporters of the credit of the road ? — A. Its president, Horace F. 
Clark; its vice-president, John Duff; Mr. Oakes Ames, Mr. Oliver 
Ames, Mr. Elisha Atkins, and quite a large number of gentlemen of 
very large means ; I don't remember their names now. 

Q. I would like to have the names of those you do remember. — A. 
Sidney Dillon has helped them largely ; Mr. Schell, of New York, is a 
director, and, I believe, he aids largely ; Mr. Morton, of Morton, Bliss 
& Co., of New York ; Pullman, of the Pullman Car Company ; Mr. 
Dexter, of Boston ; Mr. Bobbins. I should think there were twenty 
gentlemen of very large means who stand ready to help them at any 
time to the amount of millions of dollars when they need it. 

Q. And you think it is upon the aid of the personal resources of 
twenty gentlemen, of whom you have named about a dozen, that the 
road depends to save it from bankruptcy "? — A. O, no, I should not say 
that ; but I should say that the road stands much better in public esti- 
mation from the knowledge ot the fact that twenty gentlemen of im- 
mense means stand ready to put it through any temporary embarrass- 
ment that it may meet, and it is not only true of that road, but, I sup- 
pose, of all roads who have their friends to stand by them ; and new 
roads, that depend solely upon their earnings, must necessarily need a 
great deal of help, which they receive through the friends of the enter- 
prise. It is nothing very unusual or uncommon. This road is a very 
large concern, and it requires strong men to put it through. I think 
the road is in a better condition now than it ever has been, pecuniarily ; 
and with these strong men to back it, and with the great prospects it- 
has, I have no doubt of its entire solvency, of its going through, and 
being very valuable property to its stockholders, and also of its perfect 
ability to pay the Government all it owes it when it becomes due. 

Q. You think there is no danger of its falling into the hands of its 
first-mortgage bondholders ! — &. Not the slightest. 

Q. So far as you are aware, by what class of persons are those first- 
mortgage bonds held ? — A. They are held by persons all over the coun- 
try, and quite a considerable number in Europe. 

Q Do you think the first- mortgage bondholders are, to any consider- 
able extent, persons who own the stock? — A. I do not think they are 
scarcely at all. The stockholders did own at one time a majority of the 
bonds, which they were obliged to carry, because they were not well 
known to the people, but, when their market price got to be what was 
thought to be their intrinsic worth, they disposed of them ; and now 
my impression is that very few of the bonds are held by owners of the 
stock. 

Q. Are they six per cent, gold, or currency? — A. Six per cent, gold. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. Suppose the Union Pacific Railroad Company was now required 



340 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

to pay the five per cent, mentioned iu the original act of incorporation, 
and was also required to refund the interest paid by the United States 
on the Government bonds issued to them, and also the interest that 
hereafter accrues, could it pay those amounts and remain solvent with- 
out the aid of outside persons? — A. !No, sir; it could not pay that 
without the aid of these individuals of whom I have spoken. I should 
judge, from its large increase of business, that in a short time — in the 
course of three or four years — it would be able easily to do that, but I 
do not think at present it could, with any degree of comfort or conveni- 
ence. 

Q. Do you think it would go into bankruptcy if it was required to 
pay these amounts, unless it was helped by outside persons'? — A. It 
could not pay those amounts now; I think it very likely that the en- 
forcement of that claim, if the Government has such a claim, would 
seriously embarrass the road; I have no doubt about it. 

By Mr. SwANN: 
Q. Drive it into bankruptcy? — A. It might do so; I don't know 
whether it would do so; it would be certainly very impolitic for the 
Government, if its claim was clear, to enforce the payment of it now. 

By Mr. Hoar: 

Q. As a general rule, are the gentlemen on whose aid and good-will 
the road has depended to keep itself along, to buttress its credit, and 
on whom it is now depending, so far as you have stated, the same gen- 
tlemen who received the dividends of the Credit Mobilier, or its 
trustees? — A. That applies to the most of them, and a good many of 
their friends. What was called the "other party, "I think, have got 
out of it. 

Q. Would it apply to Mr. Dillon? — A. Yes, sir; and to Mr. Atkins. 
Mr. Dexter, Mr. Bobbins, and Mr. Duff. It would not apply to Mr. 
Clark, Mr. Schell, Mr. Morton, or Mr. Pullman. 
By the Chairman: 

Q. You were speaking a moment ago of the vast sums of money that 
were owing by the Union Pacific Bailroad Company to the Credit Mo- 
bilier. — A. At the time of the Oakes Ames contract. 

Q. You had reference to the time of the Oakes Ames contract? — A. I 
said that the capital of the Credit Mobilier had been absorbed pretty 
much at that time by the Union Pacific Bailroad Company, and that 
company had never seen the time yet when they could comfortably pay 
it backhand they still owe the Credit Mobilier a very large sum, although 
not near so large now as then. 

Q. Y"ou said, if I understood you correctly, that at the time this Oakes 
Ames contract was entered into the Union Pacific Bailroad Company 
was owing the Credit Mobilier a very large sum of money — I believe 
you used the phrase "vast sums of money." On what account did the 
Union Pacific Bailroad Company owe the Credit Mobilier this vast sum 
of money ?— -A. It owed them that for the construction of the road. 

Q. Under the Hoxie contract? — A. Under the Hoxie contract, and I 
believe also they made large purchases of iron and materials under what 
I was going to call a renewed contract, but it was not renewed, but 
under the anticipation of having that contract. 

Q. And this vast indebtedness accrued in that way, did it?— A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. When this vast indebtedness was accruing was the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company, or the Credit Mobilier, getting the advantage of 



CREDIT MOBlLIER AND CXIO.N PACIFIC RAILROAD. 341 

these Government bonds and the first-mortgage bonds of the com- 
pany ? — a. The Union Pacific Railroad were getting the advantage of 
rhe Government bonds as I have told yon, when they were received, bnt 
there was very great delay. The Credit Mobilier never had any advan- 
tage of those bonds. 

Q. Yon say there was great delay in getting those Government bonds ; 
you are not in error about that? — A. I think not. 

Q. Let me call your attention to a, few dates from the records of the 
Treasury Department. On May 1, 18CG, twenty-five miles of road seem 
to have been accepted, and on the 7th of May, 1866, only six days after- 
ward, there were $400,000 worth of bonds issued from the Treasury 
Department ; there was not much delay there between the acceptance 
of the road and the issuing of the bonds ? — A. There was not very great 
delay after the acceptance of the road and after it was all completed, 
unless it was on the latter portion of the contract. 

Q. But I aln talking of the time when the Oakes Ames contract was 
made. You say this vast indebtedness accrued, and it grew out of the 
delay on the part of the Government in accepting the road and issuing 
the bonds? — A. I said it grew out of that in part. 

Q. I call your attention to the fact that on the 1st of May, 1866, 
twenty-five miles of road were accepted, and on the 7th of May, $400,000 
worth of bonds were issued ; and on the 25th of June, 1806, forty miles 
of road were accepted, and on the 26th of June, one day after that, 
$640,000 worth of Government bonds were issued to the company ; yon 
would not regard that as an inordinate delay ! — A. No, sir; I was not 
complaining of the Government. 

Q. But you say there were vast sums due from the Government? — A. 
I did not say after the acceptance of the road. The delay was not very 
great after the acceptance of the road by the Government. 

Q. But I am calling your attention to this point, as to whether there 
was any delay in the acceptance of the road. It seems by the record 
that on the 12th of July twenty miles more were accepted ; you would 
not regard that as a great delay ? — A. I was not speaking of the delay 
complainingiy on the whole, but I spoke of the actual fact that it was 
quite a lapse of time between the building of the road, the furnishing of 
materials, &c, and the time of the payment of money. 

Q. But you spoke of it, as I understood you, in answer to Mr. Hoar, 
in the way of an explanation of the fact that large sums of money had 
to be raised, and that these Government aids, in the way of bonds, &c, 
were not available to the company. Now, I would like for you to look 
over this list of the dates of the acceptance of the road and the date of 
issuing the bonds and see whether there was any delay. — A. I have no 
doubt that list is correct, but it has no reference to my explanation at 
all. My view of the case was this, and perhaps I didn't make myself 
understood. I did not mean to ascribe it all, only in part, to the delay 
of the Government. I think 1 may say with propriety that if it had been 
an individual matter we would have got that money much sooner than 
we got it from the Government. I did not think there was very great 
delay after the road was accepted, but there was an immense expendi- 
ture of money, and it required a vast amount of individual credit to 
build the road before we could get any bonds from the Government. 

Q. But the Government accepted the road about as rapidly as you 
built it .' — A. No, sir. I don't say but that the Government accepted very 
nearly as rapidly as they ought to have accepted it— a portion of it they 
did and a portion of it they did not: 

Q. Do you know what weight per yard of iron was laid on this 



J4Z CREDIT MOBILIER AND UXIOX PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

road? — A. Fifty-six pounds, I think. It was the weight the Govern- 
ment required. 

Q. Was the iron that was put down actually fifty-six, or was it only 
forty-eight ? — A. I think every rail of it was fifty-six pounds to the 
yard. I have no idea that there was any rail put down for less than 
fifty-six. 

Q. What consideration was paid to Mr. Hoxie for the assignment of 
his contract, according to the best of your information on the subject? — 
A. My impression is that he was paid nothing at the time. 

Q. What was he paid afterwards ? — A. He came in with a claim sev- 
eral years afterwards. I think it was for the transfer. of the contract, 
and lie wanted some thousands of dollars. 

Q. How many thousand dollars? — A. My impression is that he 
claimed $10,000 and we gave him $5,000. I think the transfer of the 
contract entered into a part of the consideration. 

Q. Was there not a very large sum paid to him — much more than 
$10,000? — A. Well, perhaps there was; I do not call it to mind. 1 sup- 
pose the books will show. 

Q. What consideration was paid Mr. Davis for the transfer of his 
contract ! — A. I do not know that anything was. As I understand it 
Mr. Davis was unable to complete his contract. 

Q. Did you hear from the parties interested about anything being 
paid ! — A. I know there was some trouble ; that there were some law- 
suits, but how they settled them up I cannot say. 

Q. Mr. Davis did bring suit somewhere in regard to this matter % — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In what court did he bring that suit l — A. I think he brought two 
or three suits in New York, and also in Ohio, but I may be mistaken 
about that. I had very little to do with that, and know nothing about 
it. I had no interest in it. and really have no positive knowledge about 
it. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. Do I understand you to say that you consider the road as in a 
rather delicate position financially, and without the aid of these outside 
influences of which you spoke you do not know what might be the 
result ; it might be temporarily embarrassed or it might go down ? — A. 
I think that but for those gentlemen whom I have mentioned, together 
with many other, numbering perhaps twenty, who are largely interested 
in and strong friends of the road — but for the aid which they rendered 
with their own means, it would be embarrassed. 

Q. But suppose any acccident should happen ; suppose complications 
spring up, which may be the result of this investigation — you say the 
securities, have fallen already— may not these gentlemen take alarm 
aud withdraw their stock ! — A. You know as much about that as I do. 

Q. What I mean to ask is, can you rely upon this outside influence to 
meet these floating obligations, armounting to millions of dollars,. and to 
operate the road successfully as it has been operated heretofore? — A. 
I think so. 

Q. You think that there would be no withdrawal of the influence that 
these gentlemen exert in the road ? — A. It is greatly for their interest 
to take care of the road and carry it along. 

Q. But I understand you to say that without these influences this 
road might go down? — A. No more than I can say of any other road. 

Q. But I ask you in reference to this road ? — A. I don't know that I 
can state it more particularly than I have. I suppose their floating in- 



CREDIT M0B1LIEK AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 343 

clebtedness is about three or four millions and their earnings eight or 
nine million dollars per annum, and you know very well, experienced as 
you are in railroading, what all that means. 

Q. Suppose the revenues of the road should fall off and become 
greatly reduced ; suppose its securities should fall materially in the 
market, do you think the road could sustain itself without the outside 
influences of which you speak? — A. Why, of course not; everybody 
knows it could not, and no other road could. 

Suppose that the management was transferred to other hands, 
what do you siippose would be the result \ — A. If it got into the hands 
of Jay Gould and Jim Fisk 

Q. I do not mean persons of that description ; I mean reliable gentle- 
men who have capital and credit. — A. Well, I could not say. 

Q. Now, sir, what amount of capital would you say the gentlemen of 
whom you speak could bring to the support of the road % — A. They 
could bring, I should say, twenty or thirty million dollars. Perhaps 
those gentlemen are worth thirty, fort}', or fifty million dollars, combined, 
and it would only be a question, not of ability but of willingness on their 
part, and I cannot conceive of any state of things which would probably 
arise where it would not be for their interest to sustain the road, as they 
did when the stock went down to 9 and the bonds went down propor- 
tionately; but they and others in the road at the time furnished the 
money and put the road through, and if it hadn't been for them the 
road would have broken down then. 

Q. What amount of interest do these gentlemen represent in the 
road % — A. I should say one-half the whole stock, besides the bonds. 

The witness desired to make the following statement as a part of his 
testimony : 

I ought to say here, with regard to this matter you have just alluded 
to, that I have no interest in the road scarcely, and it has been a long- 
time since I have had anything to do with it. I do not know exactly 
its situation, but I think it is in a much sounder condition pecuniarily 
than it ever has been. Its earnings are very much larger, and I do not 
think that there is anything likely to occur to put it in peril, and I 
should hate to have any impression go out from here that I have anj- 
doubt of the solvency or the future prosperity of the road, fori have none, 
none whatever; and I regard the present depreciation of the stocks and 
securities of the road occasioned by this investigation as being merely 
temporary, and which cannot occasion any serious embarrassment to it. 

With regard to the newspapers, I have said that Dr. Durant alleged 
that some of this money was spent, or rather that some of the news- 
paper people got some of this money. My impression is indistinct about 
it ; it is a good many years ago, and I do not remember distinctly what 
he did say upon that point; and I think the feeling among us all was 
that the money was not expended as he alleged it was. I did not get 
any impression, however, from him that he spent this money among 
newspaper reporters, but I think he referred to the press generally, as 
a very large amount was speut in advertising and popularizing the loan, 
and he might have said that a considerable amount was spent among 
the press in that way. 

Q. State how much was spent in that way. — A. From the commence- 
ment up to the present time several hundred thousand dollars in adver- 
tising and popularizing the loan — a very legitimate and proper expendi- 
ture. 



344 CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC KAILROAD. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Are you a stockholder now in the Union Pacific Kailroad? — A. 
Only for a very small amount. 

Q. How much stock have you held at any one time? — A. I think I have 
held 4,000 shares ; never more than that. I never was largely interested 
in it or in the Credit Mobilier, so far as stock was concerned : I have 
taken great interest in them and have loaned money to them. 

Q. At what rate did you sell your shares % — A. I have sold them from 
13 to 46. • 

Q. "When you sold last at what rate did you sell for? — A. I think the 
last I sold was 38. 

Q. How long ago was that f — A. I should think a year ago. 

Q. Did you sell a large amount of stock at that time? — A. No, sir, 
not a large amount. I do not remember how much. I felt that the 
Government was interfering so frequently with the road that it was not 
the kind of stock I wanted to own. I hated to own stock or securities 
that any person could get up in the House and offer a resolution and 
knock down the price 3 or 4 per cent. That is not pleasant. I believe 
in the road, I believe in its capacity, and I believe in its future pros- 
perity, and if the Government shall ask nothing of it but what is fair 
and right, I believe it will be a very good investment for those w T ho 
have monev in it. 



Washington, 1). C, January 27, 1873. 

Gakes Ames recalled and examined. 
By Mr. Swann : 

Question. I desire to ask you a single question in regard to the money 
expended by Mr. Durante — Answer. Do you mean that expense account? 

Q. Yes. Did you say or not that a considerable amount of that money 
was expended at Willard's Hotel in this city ? — A. I think the hotel 
items are about the only items I can remember in the bill. I think 
Willard's Hotel bill was $18,000 ; that is my impression. 

Q. Do you know how it was expended % — A. O, no, sir, I don't know 
anything about that. This happened long before I had anything to do 
with the road. 



Washing ton^ D. C, January 28, 1873. 
Benjamin W. Spence sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman: 

Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer. In Boston. 

Q. How loug have you lived there ?— A. I have always lived there 
except for two or three years during the war. 

Q. W hat is your occupation ? — A. I am an accountant. 

Q. What experience have you had as an accountant ? — A. Ever since 
I was fifteen years old ; I have had twenty years' experience, at least. 

Q. Have you been at any time connected . with the Union Pacific 
Kailroad? — A. Yes. I was employed by the Union Pacific Bailroad 
Company in June, 18G9. 

Q. How long did your employment continue ? — A. Until June, 1871- 

Q. In what capacity ? — A. I was employed as cashier of the company 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 345 

and I acted as assistant treasurer of the company, also as assistant 
treasurer of the trustees. 

Q. What trustees do you mean — the trustees under the Oakes Ames 
contract? — A. Yes. 

Q. For what length of time did you act in connection with that board 
of trustees! — A. I should think half the time during the same period. 

Q. Do you know anything in relation to the item of $126,000, known 
as u special legal expenses ? " — A. Yes, sir. I know that there is such a 
charge. 

Q. Do you recollect when the payment was made of that sum of 
money? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When was it ?— A. Mnth March, 1871. 

Q. Who made that payment ? — A. I did. 

Q. Do you know what use was made of that $120,000 ? — A. iS T o 7 sir * 
I do uot think that I do. 

Q. Did you hear the matter talked of as to what use was made of 
it? — A. I heard some talk, from which I got an impression, "but I dp not 
know that I can state any conversation. 

Q. State who it was you heard talking about it as far as you recol- 
lect. — A. I heard Mr. Williams and I heard Mr. Bushnell; I think that 
is all I can say positively that I heard, now. 

Q. Give your present recollection as to the substance of what you 
heard them say in relation to it. — A. That it was used for the purpose 
of securing a reversal of Secretary Boutwell's action. 

Q. Were there other legal expenses paid about that time f — A. I think 
there were some paid a short time prior to that. 

Q. To whom were they paid ? — A. I think Judge Curtis was paid a 
fee, and Mr. Sidney Bartlett and Mr. E. E. Hoar. 

Q. Were the amounts paid them embraced in this $120,000? — A. ]STo, 
sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. The amounts paid these gentlemen just named were for opinions 
and public arguments, were they not? — A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Sloctjm : 

Q. How was this $126,000 drawn — in one check or in different checks ? — 
A. There were two checks drawn and there were two or three drafts 
given. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. State to the committee how you paid this $126,000 — A. I drew 
two checks, one for $24,500 and one for 19,000. 

Q. To whom was the check for $24,500 given ? — A. I first gave it to 
Mr. Kollins, secretary for the company, for I was directed to mate it 
payable to him. The check was made payable to my order at first, as 
all the checks were signed by Mr. Williams in advance. I was directed 
to make it payable to E. H. Eollins, secretary of the company. 1 took 
it to the directors' room and handed it to Mr. Rollins for his indorse- 
ment, and brought it back to my desk. 

Q. To whom did vou deliver these two checks ? — A. I gave the check 
for $24,500 to Mr. G. M. Dodge. 

Q. To whom was the check for $19,000 given ?— A. The check for 
$19,000 I gave to Mr. J. F. Wilson. 

Q. Who was Mr. J. F. Wilson ? — A. Government director. 

Q. And who got the balance ? — A. The balance was in three drafts on 



346 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Mathew Morgan's Sons, of New York — and these I gave to Mr. C. S. 
Bushnell. 

Q. Can you state the amount of the checks; have you a memorandum 
to enable you to state the amounts? — A. (Reading from memorandum.) 
One was for $20,626.45, one was for $43,841.09, one for $18,032.46. 

Q. Were any of these amounts you have named subdivided in any 
way i — A. I do not know that I can state, as a fact, that they were 
divided. 

Q. Have you any memorandum which would indicate anything on 
that subject; and, if so, what does it indicate? — A. I have a memo- 
randum, but I have not got it here. I have a copy here. 

Q. Is it an exact copy ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Where is the original? — A. In Boston. I do not know that I can 
say it is an exact copy. I think that in the original memorandum I 
have a small item which I put in myself for $ 10 that I paid to one of 
the clerks, and put in my cash-drawer as a cash memorandum. 

Q. Aside from that, 4s it a correct copy ? — A. Yes. 

Q. You say you have the original in your custody ? — A. I think that 
I can produce it. 

Q. Produce the copy that you have. — A. Here it is. (Witness pre- 
sents to the committee a small penciled memorandum, of which the fol- 
lowing is a copy :) 

" #2,372.] March 9,111. 

" Give E. H. B,, ch'k for C. S. B., draft on Ma, Morgan's Sons. 

" $2,500. Indorsed by E. H. B., to 1st Nat'l B'k Concord, % H. 

" $19,000 gave J. F. Wilson. Collected through Girard Nat. B'k of 
Phila. 

" G. M. DODGE. 
" $24,500. Gilman Son & Co., col. Nat. B ? k State of New York." 

On the back of the memorandum are figures and initials as follows : 
" $126,000. C. S. B. & others. N. (in red pencil.) 

' " Cops. 



126 



ISO 

7 



7,000 s 

175 17,500 

" Dodge, 24,500 G. M. D. 



101,500 
19,000 C. S. B. 



82,500*' 



Q. Did Mr. Bushnell give any check or draft that day to any person ; 
and, if so, to whom? — A. Yes, sir. Immediately after this transaction 
he made a draft on New York, and gave it to Mr. Rollins, secretary of 
the company. 

Q. For what amount ?— A. $2,500. 

Q. On what bank ? — A. His draft was on Mathew Morgan's Sons, New 
York. 

Q. Did Mr. Bollins state for what purpose that draft was drawn ? — 
A. He came to me with that draft and requested the company's check 



CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 347 

for it, which I gave him. I suggested that it was bis share. He replied, 
Xo; that he wanted it to pay an amount that he had borrowed from 
Mr. Ordway, Sergeant-nt-Arms, for Mr. Bushnell. 

Q. When you suggested to him that it was his share, what was under- 
stood between you and him ? What did you mean by using that lan- 
guage? — A. That it was his share of the $120,000, as compensation for 
his extra services during the two or three weeks he was here in Wash- 
ington. 

Q. Had any of the parties connected with the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company, or with this board of trustees, been in Washington shortly 
before that time : and if so, who were they ? — A. Mr. Eollins, Mr. Bush- 
nell, Mr. Dodge, Mr. J. F. Wilson, and Colonel Scott, although I believe 
lie was not president of the company at that time. 

Q. Whom do you mean by Colonel Scott % — A. Thomas A. Scott. He 
was elected president of the company at that time. 

Q. Was this $126,000 put on the books of the company in one amount, 
or was it in different amounts ? — A. It was all down in one amount. 

Q. You have said to the committee that you have an original memo- 
randum, of which you have produced a copy. Why did you preserve 
that memorandum ? — A. That is a copy of a memorandum which was 
handed to me to guide me in drawing my checks. 

Q. Who handed you the memorandum % — A. I do not know that I 
can state positively/ I think it was Mr. J. M. S. Williams, the treasurer 
of the company. 

Q. Was he treasurer at that time f— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Xow I repeat the question, why did you preserve that memoran- 
dum ? — A. I do not know that I had any particular motive. Perhaps 
for two or three days I kept it because I had this $10 memorandum 
on it 5 and afterwards it occured to me that as there seemed to be so 
much mystery about the transaction, and as I could make no entry on 
ray books which could explain it, I had better keep it for a while in case 
any of the directors might ask me some question about it, so that I 
would have it to protect myself or the treasurer, in case of any investi- 
gation by the directors. 

Q. Did you know of the appointment of a commitee to inquire into 
the item of $126,000 'for special legal expenses ?— A. Xo, sir,- I do not 
think there was any committee appointed to investigate. A committee 
was appointed to fix the amount, but there was no committee appointed 
afterwards to investigate. 

Q. Do you know of the appointment of that committee to fix the 
amount ?— A. Yes. 

Q. Do you know of their being together in a room % — A. Yes, I know 
that they went out of the office. 

Q. Were you in the room wijth them when they had their consulta- 
tion.-— A. No, sir. 

Q. I wantj;o know whether the bringing these checks to you or- the 
directing you to make out these checks and the signature of these checks 
was immediately after the withdrawing of this committee into that 
room. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The one transaction followed immediately on the other ?— A. Yes; 
I do not suppose there was half an hour between them. 

Q. Did they bring you checks for you to sign, or did they simply di- 
rect you to fill the checks which Mr. Williams signed, or what was the 
way of it? — A. Mr. Williams always kept the" check-book signed a 
number of pages ahead payable to my order, and as. this committee 
had reported that this payment should be made to Mr. Bollins, the 
secretary of the company, I indorsed these checks to Mr. Rollins. 



348 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. N 

Q. What checks were they?— A. The checks for $24,500 and $19,000. 

Q. What did you do with the rest ? — A. I do. Dot think that the drafts 
went through Mr. Bollins's hands at all. I drew the drafts on New 
York for enough to make up the balance. 

Q. In whose name were those drafts drawn ? — A. Mr. Williams, the 
treasurer, drew the drafts on Matthew Morgan's Sons, iu New York, in 
favor of C. S. Bushnell. 

Q. What number of drafts ? — A. Three. 

Q. Do you recollect the amounts?— A. One was for $20,020.45, one 
for $43,841.09, and one for $18,032.40. I can explain why these drafts 
were made for those particular amounts. 

Q. Who do you say brought you the memorandum from which you 
drew these checks, and of which memorandum this is a copy % — A. I 
would not have drawn the checks unless Mr. Williams had give the in- 
structions. 

Q. Do you know whose were the figures ?— A. Mr. Williams did not 
make the figures. 

Q. Do you know whose were the figures ? — A. I do not believe I can 
state positively. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. Why were those drafts made for those particular amounts ? — A. 
The company had made a sale of a large amount of their bonds, and 
this was in part payment tor some of the land-grant bonds which ac- 
companied those drafts at the time. Each one of those drafts repre- 
sented so much bonds, with the accrued interest up to the date of the 
draft. That was for payment of so much bonds, and in the usual course- 
I would have deposited that in the Bank of Commerce to the company's 
credit ; but instead of doing that the bonds went off to Xevr York with 
the drafts. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. I do not think I understand you in reference to those bonds that 
accompanied those several drafts. You stated that they were land- grant 
bonds? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Bonds of that character equivalent in amount to the several drafts 
you have named accompanied the drafts ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And were delivered to the same parties who received the drafts : — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Does that also apply to the checks % Were these bonds also de- 
livered to the parties who received the check? — A. Bonds may have 
been delivered to the express. I cannot say positively as to that now. 

Q. Describe now the title by which the parties receiving those checks 
were entitled to the bonds also. That is what I do not understand. 
How came the parties receiving these checks and drafts to be entitled 
to receive also bonds of an equivalent amount? — A. The bonds were the 
property of the company, representing $1,000 each. Tkey had been 
previously sold at 70 per cent. 

Q. Sold to whom? — A. Sold to Mr. C. S. Bushnell as agent of some 
parties. That was some time, prior to this transaction, and this was the 
carrying out of a part of that transaction. 

Q. A party buying a bond, and paying for it r would naturally get 
the bond and pay the money for it, would he not 2 — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Had Mr. Bushnell bought those bonds? — A. Mr. Bushnell, as 
agent, had bought those bonds for another party, and ihose drafts that 
were drawn, and which accompanied the bonds, would have belonged 
to the company had they not been paid over as part of that $126,000. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 349 

I made the entry on my cash-book : " Paid out on account of those legal 
expenses, $126,000.' , I must have something on the other side of those 
books to balance and keep the cash straight. The company, I might say. 
that day made a sale of so much of their bonds, and those drafts were 
the proceeds of these bonds. 

Q. In other words, the result of that transaction was to authorize 
Mr. Bushnell to retain in his hands that amount of money, the proceeds 
of bonds sold by the company ? — A. Yes. 

Q. These drafts, then, were drafts which withdrew from the treasury 
the proceeds of the sale of bonds which they represented ? — A. Yes. 

Q. I)o you know at what price those bonds were sold in that particu- 
lar transaction ! — A. This was only a part of a transaction which had 
been made some two or three months prior. 

Q. Do you know the price at which they had been sold? — A. Yes : 
the land- grant bonds were sold at 70 per cent. 

Q. Then an amount of bonds would be issued in excess (taking them 
at their par value) of the amount of drafts by the difference between 100 
per cent, and 70 per cent.? — A. Yes. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. On what bank was the check drawn in favor of Mr. Bodge? — A. 
On the National Bank of Commerce in Boston. 

Q. Was that check payable to bearer, or .did it require indorsement ? — 
A. It required my indorsement, and it required the secretary's indorse- 
ment. I think Mr. Bollins's indorsement was in blank, and not to any- 
body's order. 

Q. On what bank was the check drawn in favor of Mr. Wilson? — A. 
On the same bank. You did not understand me to say that that check 
was drawn in Mr. Wilson's favor ? I have not stated that. 

Q. State in what way it was drawn. — A. The check was drawn to 
my order first, and I made it payable to the order of E. H. Bollins. 
secretary, and he made the indorsement in blank, I believe; that is 
my impression. 

Q. Do you know where those checks are ? — A. I should say they were 
in the office of the company. 

Q. They ought to be there ! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you ever seen them since the time you issued them, as you 
have stated? — A. Yes, sir; I saw them when the bank account was 
settled at the end of the month, when the bank-checks were returned. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Be good enough to state now exactly what is the source of your 
information on which you have made the statement concerning Mr. Wil- 
son's having any of these checks. To whom did you deliver the check 
tor $24,500, and the check for $19,000 ?— A. The $21,500 check to Mr. 
Dodge and the $19,000 check to Mr. J. F. Wilson. 

Q. You delivered that to Mr. Wilson with your own hands? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Slocoi : 

Q. In your memorandum here you have got 25 multiplied by 7 ; what 
do you mean by those figures ?— A. That is a copy of the original mem- 
orandum. 

Q. These figures mean something; what do they mean? — A. I do not 
know that I really know their meaning. 

Q. You had an idea when you put them down there I — A. I put them 
down there as being a copy of the original. 



350 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Do you know what those figures mean ? — A. I only infer what they 
mean. My inference is that they go to show how the $24,500 was 
made up. 

Q. Give us what you know about it, and tell us what you found 
your opinion on. — A. I found my opinion on the original memorandum. 
My impression is that the $24,500 was made up by seven shares of 
$2,500 each and one share of $7,000. 

Q. What do you found that opinion on ? — A. On the original memo- 
randum. 

Q. Made up by whom ? — A. I cannot say if it was made by Mr. Dodge 
or Mr. Bushnell. 

Q. But somebody gave you a memorandum showing how that 
$24,500 was made up ! — A. Not for that purpose ; but this happened to 
be on the memorandum given to me to draw my checks from. 

Q. And there were seven parcels of $2,500 each and one of $7,000 to 
make up that $24,5001 — A. That is what the memorandum would seem 
to show. 

Q. After the figures $126,000 and the initials " O. S. B. & others" 
is the letter N ; what does that mean ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. Did you just copy that literally from the memorandum ! — A. Yes, 
sir; I have no knowledge at all what it means. It is just a copy of the 
memorandum. 

Q. What was that memorandum! — A. A simple rough pencil mem- 
orandum on a slip of paper about as large as two of my fingers. 

Q. In all the conversation you heard there did you hear the name of 
any person mentioned to whom this money, or any part of it, was to be 
paid % — A. Only those parties whom I have named, General Dodge and 
Mr. Wilso r 

Q. Never 1 , .* ail the conversation with the directors, did you hear any 
names of persons mentioned that this money was to be divided among? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. But you understood that it was all to come to Washington % — A. 
That was my impression. 

Q. I do not want your impressions. — A. I understood that it all 
went to make up this $126,000, which was used for the purpose I have 
mentioned. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. What are the initials of the chief engineer, Dodge? — A. G. M. 

Q. W T ere the letters G. M. B. opposite to the figures 24,500 in the 
original as handed to you! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The letters C. S. B. stand opposite the figures 101,500 in this copy 
of yours; do they so stand in the original ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What are Mr. BushnelPs initials !— A. O. S. 

Q. Opposite to the figures 7,000 is the letter L. Is there any party 
connected with this transaction whose last name begins with L! — A. 
No one that I know of. 

Q. Do you know where that $7,000 went ? — A. No, sir; I do not. 

Q. Have you any information from any officer of the company or from 
any officer of the Credit Mobiiier showing where it went ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You said something about Mr. Rollins having got $2,500 of it for 
the purpose of paying Mr. Ordway. State again just what was said 
about that. — A. When I gave Mr. Rollins a check for the draft which 
Mr. Bushnell gave him, I suggested to him that that was his share for 
his services at Washington; which he did not admit, but said that he 
wanted it to pay Mr. Ordway, the Sergeant-at-Arms, $2,500 which he 
had borrowed of him for Mr. Bushnell when he was in Washington. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 351 

Q. Is tbat all that you recollect ? — A. That is all that I remember 
that he said. 

Q. What did he say at that time about who got the other six 
sevenths ? — A. I had no conversation in relation to it. 

Q. Did you have any conversation with any member or officer of the 
company about who got the other six-sevenths ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Twenty-five hundred multiplied by 7 produces 17,500 on this mem- 
orandum. — A. Yes. 

Q. And 7,000 added to that produces 24,500.— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know anything either from Mr. Dodge or from any officer 
of the company as to what was done with the $19,000! — A. No, sir; I 
have no idea. 

Q. Have you any information which you can give to the committee 
showing what was done with the $17,500, except the $2,500 which you 
gave to Mr. Rollins?— A. Thrt $2,500 is not included in the $17,500. 

Q. Mr. Rollins will be included in this, will he not? — A. No, sir; 
because the $21,500 was made up by those amounts ; and the check 
which Mr. Rollins had came from the $82,500 which Mr. Bushnell had. 

Q. Then his was not one of the seven shares that made up the 
$17,000 ?— A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Did you receive any information from any of these gentlemen 
whether that sum of $17,500 was divided into seven shares rather than 
into two or three shares, or whether it was divided at all? — A. No, sir. 
I have no information in regard to that. 

Q. Were you informed who were the persons who themselves came 
to Washington, or what number of persons came? — A. I " not know 
that I can state the number. I only gathered it from t~ jspondence 
that I saw or from conversations that I heard while in the office about 
these parties being here. 

Q. How many were here? — A. I believe that I have stated the num- 
ber at four, or five, or six. That is as far as 1 know. 

Q. Did you ever exhibit to Mr. Williams afterward this memoran- 
dum ? — A. No, sir ; I do not think I did. I made a remark to him at the 
time it was given to me. 

Q. What was it? — A. I cannot give the exact words, but I said to 
him that I supposed that that was the amount used for lobbying pur- 
poses. I remember that these were just my words. 

Q. What did he reply ? — A. I think he said u I suppose so," or lie 
gave me to infer that such was the case. 

Q. Did you state to any of these gentlemen connected with that trans- 
action that you had preserved this memorandum ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. How long had you been in that office of assistant treasurer or 
cashier at that time ? — A. About a year and a half or two years. 

Q. What was your power ? — A I handled all the money. I disbursed 
all the money that belonged to the company, and 1 received the moneys 
which the trustees received. 

Q. Did you give any bond ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you have the right to draw checks or drafts binding the com- 
pany unless they had been first drawn by Mr. Williams, payable to your 
order ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. So that the method of your transacting business, as far as you 
were a cashier, was that Mr. Williams signed, payable to your order, 
checks in the check-book, and you filled them out? — A. Yes. 



o52 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNIOX PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Do you know where that check-book is now ? — A. I suppose in the 
office in Boston. 

Q. Did you make a memorandum on the margin of the check-book 
indicating the nature and character of the check? — A. It was my cus- 
tom to do so. 

Q. Did you not in this instance % — A. I must have put down some 
memorandum. I do not remember what. I may have put down " E. 
H. B/> The check will show. 

Q. This check which you say you delivered in person to Mr. Wilson, 
was there any memorandum on the margin of the book which would 
exhibit that ? — A. There was some memorandum, but I cannot say what 
it is. 

Q. Did this check come back to you again ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Do you know whether the money could be drawn on it before its 
being indorsed? — A. Yes. It was indorsed by Mr. Rollins in blank, 
making it payable to anybody's order. The party holding it, I suppose, 
could collect the money on it. 

Q. But do you not know whether the rule of your bank was or was 
not inflexible on that subject ? — A. They would require it to be indorsed 
unless the party was known at the bank. I think that that is the cus- 
tom. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. You stated that this memorandum, handed to you by Mr. Williams, 
was not in Mr. Williams's figures ? — A. It was not. 

Q. You did not state in whose figures it was. If you know, do so 
now. — A. I believe that I stated that I could not say positively in 
whose handwriting it was. I am not familiar with General Dodge's 
handwriting. 

Q. Have you an opinion on the subject which you would think worthy 
of delivering to the committee, as to whose handwriting it is ? If 
so, state whose it is, in your judgment or opinion. — A. My opinion is. 
that it is Mr. Bushnell's. I see that he had a good deal to do with it. 

Q. That opinion is not made up from your knowledge of the hand- 
writing ? — A. I think it is in his handwriting. 

Q. Will you produce to the committee, at your convenience, the origi- 
nal, if you can do so ? — A. Yes, sir. If I am obliged to do so, I think 
I can. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you know of any other sum or sums of money having been 
paid out and charged to legal expenses ? — A. As it is some two years 
since I have been in the office, it would be difficult for me, without the 
aid of the books, to state such amounts. There is one amount that 
occurs to me which is charged to legal expenses without a voucher be- 
ing given. 

Q. What was the amount? — A. Three thousand dollars. 

Q. Who got the money? — A. Mr. Rollins, the secretary of the com- 
pany. 

Q. Under what circumstances did he get the money ? — A. I was told 
by the president, Mr. Oliver Ames, to give him the money. 

Q. Did you keep any memorandum of it at the time '! — A. Ko, sir : 
only the memorandum on the check-book. 

Q. Did you at any time afterwards get a voucher, or endeavor to get 
a voucher, from him ; and if so, what was the result? State all you know 
in regard to that transaction. — A. Mr. Ames told me to srive this money 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 353 

to Mr. Eollins, and be would account to me for it. I made a little slip 
memorandum and put it in my drawer for $3,000, counting it as cash, 
and it lay there for some months. One day I went into the directors' 
rooms, where Mr. Oliver Ames and Mr. Eollins were together, and asked 
for a voucher, or what I should charge it off to on my cash-book. I re- 
ceived no answer, but was motioned out of the room. Shortly after that 
Mr. Eollins came out and told me to charge it to legal expenses. 

Q..Did you do so! — A. I did. 

Q. Will the books of the company show that fact ? — A. Yes. 

Q. On what books will that be found 1 — A. On the cash-book. 

Q. Was there ever any voucher furnished to you for that? — A.^No, 
sir ; I called for one, but Mr. Eollins declined to give me any. ;^r 

Q. You say he declined to give you any. Can you state what he said 
in that connection when you asked him for the voucher ? — A. I asked 
him for a voucher, that I might be protected, and he said no ; he would 
not give one ; he would be damned if he would. 

Q. When was this i — A. It was about the first of June 1870. 

Q. Was the treasurer, Mr. Williams, there at the time ? — A. No, sir ; 
I think he was away in California. 

Q. Was his attention ever called to it % — A. I never called his atten- 
tion to it, but he called my attention one day to the fact that my bank- 
account and cash did not balance, and I explained to him how it was. 

Q. Did you tell him then to whom this money had gone ! — A. I did. 

Q. Do you know whether he instituted any investigation into the 
matter ? — A. No, sir ; I do not. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. Was it the absence of a voucher for that $3,000 which made your 
cash account fail to square ? — A. In making up my cash I would say so 
much in tile bank and so much cash on hand, and then, whatever memo- 
randa I might have in my drawer counting for cash. Mr. Williams hav- 
ing noticed the discrepancy in my cash, I had to explain to him that 
there was $3,000 which I held on a memorandum, and which I had given 
to Mr. Eollins. 

By Mr. SwANN : 

Q. On whose check was that $3,000 drawn ? — A. I think it wasfsigned 
by Mr. Williams. He had signed up some hundred pages of the.check- 
book to my order, and I indorsed the check. 

Q. Checks so signed you had instructions to use ? — A. Yes. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. Do you know Jiow that $3,000 was applied ? — A. I have no personal 
knowledge in relation to it. 

Q. Have you any information from any officer of the company, either 
Mr. Eollins or any other officer, that will enable you to state how that 
money was used? — A. I can only state some circumstances which trans- 
pired at that time and some conversation that I had with Mr. Eollins. 

Q. If they relate to this $3,000, or explain its use, you may state them 
to the committee, — A. Mr. Eollins had previously told me that at the 
time of the senatorial contest in New Hampshire in June, 1870, when he 
got ready to go up there, the company would have to help him ; and 
when he received this money he immediately went to New Hampshire, 
and was gone two weeks until after the election. It was at the time 
that he was trying to get Cragin's place, I think. 

Q. Is that all you know about it ?— A. I know something else, but I do 
23 CM 



354 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

not know that it would be pertinent to the matter. I do not know the 
fact whether Mr. Eollins used the money for the purpose which he gave 
me to understand he was going to use it ior. 

Q. Do you know anything else about it that came from any officer of 
the company? — A. No, sir; I do not recollect anything else now. 

By Mr. Slocum : 
Q. Did you ever hear of any other case where the company used 
money to help to elect Senators ? — A. Eo, sir ; I did not. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you know anything about a note of $2,000,000 which was exe- 
cuted by the Union Pacific Railroad Company? — A. I know that there 
was such a uote given by the company. (The copy of the note of 4th 
August, 1869, having been shown to the witness.) I know the fact that 
this note was given. This seems to fix the date ; I do not know that I 
can state the purpose for which the note was given. 

Q. Were you present at the time the note was executed ? — A. Yes. 

Q. What was said about the matter at the time ? — A. I do not know 
that anything was said in my hearing. My desk was a little one side of 
where the note was being fixed up. 

Q. Were the books of the Union Pacific Railroad Company and of the 
Credit Mobilier examined at that time with a view of ascertaining what 
amount, if any, was due by the Union Pacific Railroad Company to the 
Credit Mobilier? — x\. Not to my knowledge. 

Q. To what account was this note charged ? Was it charged to any 
particular contract; and if so, to which? — A. I cannot state of my own 
knowledge what it was charged to. I remember the credit of $2,000,000 
to bills payable, but it has gone from my memory what it was charged 
to. I have seen testimony here, however, which reminded »e that it 
was charged to the Hoxie contract. 

Q. At the time that this note was given did the books of the company 
show that there was anthing due to the Credit Mobilier from the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. I do not know that I can state posi- 
tively in regard to that particular time, but I know that soon after that, 
and for some time afterward, the Credit Mobilier was indebted on the 
books of the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. Do you recollect to what amount? — A. My memory is that it was 
the amount of some $800,000 or $900,000. 

Q. Then, if I understand you properly, at the time this two-million 
note was given, so far as the books showed, instead of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company owing to the Credit Mobilier $2,000,000 or any other 
sum, the Credit Mobilier was indebted to the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company in the sum of some $800,000 or $900,000?— A. I am in doubt 
about the time fixed here. I cannot say that the Credit Mobilier was 
debtor to the Union Pacific Railroad Company at the time this note 
was given. I do not recollect how the books stood at that date. My 
impression was that the note was given some time subsequent to the 
date it bears. 

Q. And dated back ? — A. I will not say so, but my impression was 
that the note was given in 1870. 

Q. After the note had been given, the Credit Mobilier seemed to be, 
on the books of the company, indebted to the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company? — A. Yes. 

Q. At the time that you observed that fact as appearing on the books, 
had this two-million note been entered up against the Credit Mobilier 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 355 

on the books of the Union Pacific Railroad Company ! — A. I cannot 
answer that from memory. I could tell by referring to the books. 

Q. Have you any papers, memoranda, or books under your control 
or in your keeping now, that will enable the committee to know what 
was the true state of affairs between these two corporations at that 
time ? — A. I have no books. I have some rough memoranda which I 
had occasion to make while I was in the office. 

Q. What is the character of those memoranda ? — A. Showing how 
the different accounts on the books stood. 

Q. Do you mean trial-balances f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was there any book in the office of the company showing trial- 
balances? — A. Yes, sir; there was a trial-balance book. 

Q. Where is that book now ? — A. I suppose that the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company has the custody of it. 

Q. How often were these trial-balances made ? — A. Monthly. 

Q. Have you any of those trial-balances with you ? — A. Yes, sir. 
(Handing some papers to the chairman.) 

Q. When did you make this paper out? — A. I do not know that I can 
tell the date ; it was while I was in the office. 

Q. Is this a paper you made up with reference to entries which you 
were about to make up, or was it a memorandum of entries that had 
been made on the books ? — A. It was made up so that I might know 
how the different accounts stood, as was my duty to know. I was recog- 
nized as chief clerk in the office, and had the oversight of the books, 
and for some time, especially at the end of each month, I had to assist 
in drawing up these trial-balances and proving the books. 

Q. Was that the purpose for which this was made ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Can you state from this what it cost the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company to build the road up to this time ? — A. I do not know that I 
can without taking a little time to study it. It has been so long since, 
I thought anything of this matter. 

Q. On 1st May, 1871, how did the books of the company stand with 
reference to what is known as the Hoxie contract? — A. The Hoxie con- 
tract stood debit on the books $263,620. 

Q. And how much debit ? — A. That was the balance of credit. There 
was no debit. 

Q. And at that time what did the books of the company show with 
reference to the cost of construction under the Oakes Ames contract? — 
A. The Oakes Ames contract was debited with $1,748,739.95. 

Q. Did these entries with reference to the Hoxie and Oakes Ames 
contracts show that the Union Pacific owed these amounts to the 
contractors or that the contractors owed these amounts to the com- 
pany ! — A. In the case of the Hoxie contract it would show that the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company was indebted to the Hoxie contract 
$326,000. 

Q. How is it with reference to the Oakes Ames contract? — A. It 
would show that the contractors owed the company $1,718,739.94. 

Q. What would the books at this time show with reference to the 
Davis contract?— A. They show a debit of $23,548,547.54. 

Q. That is to say, they show that the Davis contract owed the com- 
pany that amount of money? — A. The books show that to be the case. 

Q. Do you know what is to be charged up on the other side of the 
account, with reference to the Davis contract? Did the books which 
you had at that time show the expenditures of the company on the 
account? — A. No, sir ; the Boston books did show that. 



356 CKEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

Q. Have you examined the New York books with reference to that 
matter ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have yon ever examined the New York books with reference to 
either of these contracts ? — A. No, sir. The New York books did not 
come to the Boston office till about a month before I left. 

Q. Does that trial-balance sheet show the state of the accounts be- 
tween the Union Pacific Railroad Company and the Credit Mobilier ?— - 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What does it show on the subject 1 ? — A. It shows that the Credit 
Mobilier was debtor to the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
$816,285.01. 

Q. What was that date ?— A. May 1, 1871. 

Q. At the time you made that up, had this $2,000,000 been entered 
up on the books of the company ? — A. I should say that it had been, but 
I cannot tell without referring to the books. 

Q. That sheet does not show it % — A. No, sir ; this is merely balances 
from the books. 

Q. Do you know of any sales of bonds or subscription of stock that 
was made during the time you were connected with the Union Pacific 
Company, and with those trustees ? — A. 1 have such knowledge as I 
could obtain by being in the office. 

Q. What do you know of the sale of bonds ? — A. I do know of the sale 
of bonds being made by the Union Pacific Company. 

Q. What bonds were they ? — A. All the bonds that the company 
owned. 

Q. What class of bonds were they ? — A. Some income and some land- 
grants, and some bridge bonds. 

Q. Do you recollect what amount in all was sold? — A. Between 
$4,000,000 and $5,000,000. 

Q. To whom were they sold? — A. They were sold to Mr. C. A. Bush- 
nell, as agent. 

Q. As agent for whom ? — A. I do not know that fact. 

Q. Do you know at what rate they were sold ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was it ? — A. The income bonds were sold at 56 per cent., 
the land-grant bonds were sold at 70 per cent., and the bridge bonds 
were sold at 85 per cent. 

Q. What bridge bonds do you refer to? — A. The Missouri River 
bridge which crosses at Omaha. 

Q. About what time was that sale of bonds? — A. About January 1, 
1871. 

Q. State whether there was any sale or subscription of stock at or 
about that time ? — A. The trustees sold some stock. 

Q. To whom did they sell that stock ? — A. To the same parties. 

Q. What parties do you mean ? — A. The parties whom Mr. Bushnell 
represented. 

Q. How did the trustees get that stock ; from what source did they 
get it ? — A. I do not know that I can answer. 

Q. Was there a subscription of stock about that time on the books of 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company; and, if so, who made it? — A. 
Yes, sir ; 1 think there was a subscription. 

Q. Who subscribed ? — A. Mr. John A. Rice, assistant treasurer of the 
trustees. 

Q. What was the amount of stock that was sold by those trustees at 
the time you indicated ?— A. From 20,000 to 30,000 shares. 

Q. Was there any money paid to the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
on account of that subscription, any money paid into the treasury of 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 357 

that company ? — A. There was an open account with John A. Bice, 
assistant treasurer of the trustees, had on the books, and there was a 
credit to his account. 

Q. Do you mean to say a credit to the amount of the subscription ? — 
A. I cannot say without referring to the books. The stock subscrip- 
tion books will not show it,, but the general ledger kept in Boston will 
show it. 

Q. Look at this subscription by Eice on the stock subscription book 
and state whether that is the subscription you refer to ! — A. (After 
looking at the book.) I should say it was one of those subscriptions. 

Q. What is the amount of it? — A. Thirty thousand shares. 

Q. What is the date of it?— A. July 29, 1870. 

Q. How was that subscription of 30,000 shares paid for ? — A. I can- 
not say unless it went into John A. Rice's account on the ledger. 
There was no formal transaction. 

Q. Was there any money paid ? — A. There was a nominal check 
passed, I believe, but no money. 

Q. It was a paper transaction exclusively, was it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Describe that paper transaction. Tell the committee exactly how 
this thing was done. — A. The vouchers are in the office, and they had 
better speak for themselves. 

Q. I simply want you to state how it was done — whether it was done 
by passing checks, or by paying in money. — A. Just by passing a check 
on the Bank of Commerce, and a receipt was made out for the check. 

Q. Was there any money in the Bank of Commerce to the credit of 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company corresponding with any such sum 
as that ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. The Union Pacific Railroad Company got no such sum of money as 
that in actual money? — A. No, sir. It would depend somewhat on how 
much these thirty thousand snares represented. If it was a dollar a 
share, it might have been paid, but if the shares were at par it could not 
be. 

Q. Was there any money paid on account of that sale of bonds ? — A. 
Yes, sir ; the day the transaction was consummated there was a check 
for $500,000 passed in payment for 1,000 income bonds. The rest of the 
bonds which were sold were out, pledged as collateral ; and as the loans 
matured on which these bonds were pledged, the bonds were turned 
over, the party taking it paying for the bonds. 

Q. Do you know what the purpose of that transaction was; this sale 
of bonds and subscription of stock ? — A. It was to enable the company 
to pay their floating debt. 

Q. Was there any change in the ownership of the road, or in the con- 
trol of the road, at or about that time 1 — A. This transaction was some 
time in January ; there was a change of direction in March. 

Q. Do you recollect who came to be the directors in March? — A. 
Colonel Scott came in as president, and two or three new directors came 
in. 

Q. Do you recollect who they were 1 — A. I cannot recall their names. 
There were one or two from the Pennsylvania road. They called it the 
Scott interest or the Pennsylvania interest. 

Q. State just how the Union Pacific Railroad Company got pay for 
that thirty thousand shares of stock which were issued at that time. — 
A. If Mr. Rice subscribed for that stock and paid for it, the stock be- 
longed to the trustees. The trustees made the sale of that thirty thou- 
sand shares of stock to the same party. 



358 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. But the Union Pacific Eailroad Company issued the stock on the 
subscription of Mr. J. A. Bice ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Thirty thousand shares u ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I want to know how the Union Pacific Eailroad Company got its 
pay for that stock 1 — A. I do not know of any other way except through 
John A. Eice r s account. His account was credited for the sale of the 
income-bonds that were issued. 

Q. That thirty thousand shares of stock would represent $3,000,000? — 
A. Yes. 

Q. And the only mode by which the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
got paid for that stock, as you understood it, is that it went to the account 
of John A. Eice, who represented the board of trustees under these 
contracts for construction 1 — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was this stock worth at that time ? — A. I think the market- 
value was from 30 to 40. The trustees sold the stock. 

Q. What is the date of the subscription of that stock and the sale of 
those bonds ? — A. The stock subscription was July 29, 1870 ; the sale of 
the bonds was somewhere from the first to the middle of January, 1871. 

Q. Do you know anything about any distribution of bonds, stock, or 
any other assets of any kind by the board of trustees? — A. Yes, sir; 
there was some issued while I was there. 

Q. State what you know in regard to that ? — A. There was a circular 
sent out to the stockholders on the 11th of August, 1869. I present a 
copy of that circular. 

The circular is as follows : 

CIRCULAR. 

Boston, August 11, 1869. 
To the stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad Company : 

The trustees, for the purpose of realizing, from the assets in their 
hands, means to settle up the obligations of the trust on equitable terms 
to all parties in interest, offer to the stockholders of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company one thousand (1,000) land-grant bonds at par, together 
with thirty thousand shares of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
stock ; also certificates, selling by definite numbers, one thousand of the 
first-mortgage bonds now deposited in the Treasury at Washington, at 
par, to be delivered as soon as possible, together with twenty thousand 
shares Union Pacific Eailroad Company stock. 

On the payment of $2,000 you are entitled to one land-grant bond, 
and one certificate for first-mortgage bond, and. fifty shares of Union 
Pacific Eailroad stock inclusive, for every two hundred shares of stock 
now held by you, provided you notify the subscriber on or before August 
20, and send the money to pay for such bonds as you are entitled to 
receive before the said 20th day of August, 1869. 

In case any stockholder fails to purchase the bonds and stock herein 
offered him, the same will be distributed in equal proportions to those 
who accept this offer and comply therewith. 

Please answer. 

B. E. BATES, Treasurer. 

P. S. — The first-mortgage bonds are on interest from July 1, 1869. 
The land- grant bonds are on interest from October 1, 1869. 

Q. Was that distribution made in accordance to the terms of that 
circular ? — A. It was made in part. It was commenced, but there were 
some legal proceedings that stopped it. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 359 

Q. What was done next in that behalf ? — A. The next circular was 
issued on September 22, 1869, as follows : 

CIRCULAR. 

Boston, September 22, 1869. 
To the stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad Company : 

The trustees, "having completed the work of construction and equip- 
ment of the Union Pacific Eailroad, and having received a payment for 
the same in ten per cent, income-bonds, payable September 1, 1871, or 
within live years, at the option of the company, also stock of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company, and being desirons of closing up the trust, 
and paying up all outstanding liabilities, propose to each party interested 
in the trust the following terms : 

For two of said income-bonds at one thousand dollars each, and forty 
shares of the stock of the company, the trustees will take sixteen hun- 
dred dollars, cash, and as agents for the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, and by way of compromise and adjustment, will also give the 
party taking said bonds one other of said bonds of one thousand dollars, 
upon the surrender to us as such agents of a certificate or agreement of 
July 3, 1868, by which the Union Pacific Eailroad Company promise to 
deliver, when practicable, one of its first-mortgage bonds ; payment for 
the said bonds will be received as follows : 

Fifteen (15) per cent, on the first of October; ten (10) per cent, on the 
fifteenth of October; ten (10) per cent, on the first of November,- ten 
(10) per cent, on the fifteenth of November; ten (10) per cent, on the 
first of December ; ten (10) per cent, on the fifteenth of December ; ten 
(10) per cent, on the first of January ; ten (10) per cent, on the fifteenth 
of January ; and fifteen (15) per cent, on the fifteenth of February. 

Any shareholder notifying the subscriber on or before the first day of 
October will be entitled to his pro rata portion of these securities. 

Any stockholder failing to take his portion of the securities in thirty 
days from the date of this circular will forfeit his right thereto, and 
said securities will be divided, pro rata, to those stockholders who are 
willing to take them. 

By order of the trustees : 

JOHN A. BICE, 
Assistant Treasurer Trustees. 

Q. Was the distribution made according to that circular? — A. Yes, 
sir ; to those parties who accepted the conditions. 

Q. Are you able to state who accepted those conditions'? — A. Not 
from memory. The books show it. I should say pretty much all. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. Can you state what the stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany realized in cash to the company under the propositions stated in 
those two circulars ! — A. The 30,000 shares realized to the trustees the 
equivalent of $250,000. 

Q. That is, the $250,000 represented what they got in road-making — 
what would be coming to them under their contract for making the 
road? — A. Yes. 

Q. I will read to you a resolution from the blotter of the seven trus- 
tees under the Oakes Ames contract, dated 4th May, 1870 : 

"Mr. Duff offered the following : 

"Whereas questions have arisen between the trustees for building 



360 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

the Union Pacific Eailroad and the Union Pacific Railroad Company, 
relating to the interest, delays in location, and the extraordinary ex- 
penses of building the road by working night and day, wherein they 
claim large sums over the price provided for in the said contract with 
the said company; and in order to settle all claims of every kind 
under the said contracts, it is proposed by the trustees, on payment of 
$5,000,000, that the trustees* will receive the same in payment of all 
claims against the company on account of the building of the said road 
under the Ames and Davis contracts. 

" Adopted by yea and nay vote. Yeas : Ames, Durant, Bushnell, Duff, 
Bates, and Dillon." 

Do you know whether that $5,000,000 extra compensation provided 
for in that resolution was allowed by the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany to the trustees ? — A. I do not personally know it. 

Q. Have you any information on the subject from the officers or mem- 
bers of either corporation? — A. No, sir. I know that there was a diffi- 
culty between the trustees and the Union Pacific Railroad Company, 
but how it was settled I never knew. 

Q. The books do not enable you to state ? — A. There is nothing on 
the books that would indicate anything in regard to that. 

Q. You can give us no information on the subject at all ? — A. No, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. There has been something said during the progress of this investi- 
gation in reference to what I believe one witness called a shortage on 
the bonds, and it seems to have occurred about the time the office was 
removed from New York to Boston. Do you know anything -about 
those bonds ? — A. I know that there was a shortage in the bond ac- 
count. 

Q. To what extent? — A. In the first-mortgage bond I think it was about 
$350,000, and in the United States currency sixes $145,000, making 
about $500,000. • 

Q. Do you know what became of those bonds, and whether any of 
them have been since discovered? — A. Some of them, I believe, were 
traced. Ninety-seven of the first-mortgage bonds were accounted for. 
These were pledged as collateral on a loan of 260,000 francs by Scheffler 
& Co., who failed, and the drafts were not paid and they kept possession 
of the bonds. I believe the company lost the bonds in that way. One 
other bond was accounted for by a receipt which was found, and I 
believe that was allowed in the account. Then there were twenty-four 
other first-mortgage bonds that were found. I think that that is all 
that were discovered ; the rest is yet to be accounted for. 

Q. Where were these last twenty-four first-mortgage bonds found ? — 
A. They were in New York. 

Q. Who had them? — A. Mr. Ham. At the time I left the company 
these bonds had not been accounted for or returned. 

Q. Do you mean to say that they had been traced into Mr. Ham's 
hands, but had not been accounted for to the company ? — A. Yes. 

Q. How many of those bonds are still missing, according to your un- 
derstanding? — A. About $250,000 of first-mortgage bonds, and about 
$145,000 United States currency sixes. 

Q. Have you any information as to where those bonds are? — A. No, 
sir. 

By Mr. Shellai^arger : 
Q. Is v the company in possession of the numbers of the missiug bonds ? 
— A. It" ought to be. There was a bond-record book showing all the 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 361 

bonds issued, to whom they were issued, and what numbers, so that the 
company ought to be able to know at any time the numbers of the bonds 
it should have on hand. 

Q. Has the company ever taken any steps to ascertain whether any 
of these missing bonds have ever been in circulation or passing from 
hand to hand ? — A. While I was in the office I tried to trace them a 
little, but I did not meet with much success. 

Q. You never discovered any of them except those which you have 
related in your answer to the chairman % — A. That is all. 

Q. You have never found any of the bonds by number in the hands 
of a third person ? — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. You used the phrase " traced to Mr. Ham ; " that might demand 
some little explanation. What was the transaction you speak of, and 
which you describe in that way ? — A. I think it was a loan which the 
company made in New York, or which Mr. Ham, perhaps, negotiated 
for the company, and at the maturity of the note the money was sent 
on to New York to be paid. The payment of the note released the bonds. 
The note came back to the office, but no bonds. 

Q. And the bonds remained in Mr. Ham's possession? — A. Yes. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. You do not mean that Mr. Ham did anything wrong in the mat- 
ter ? — A. O, no ; certainly not. 

Mr. Hoar. You used a phrase which would seem as if you caught 
Mr. Ham running off with those bonds. 

The Witness. No, sir ; I would not like to have that inferred at all. 
I mentioned it because those bonds were found about a year after the 
transaction. 

On motion of Mr. Hoar, permission was given to Mr. James F. Wilson 
to interrogate the witness, and afterwards to make such statement as a 
witness as he himself desired. 

By Mr. James F. Wilson : 

Q. Please fix the date of the alleged delivery of this check to me. — 
A. The same date that that $126,000 is charged, the 9th of May, 1871. 

Q. And is that the date of the check? — A. I should say it was; yes, 
sir. 

Q. At what place and under what circumstances was that check de- 
livered to me? — A. In the office of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany; at my desk, or near to it. 

Q. To whom was that check payable? — A. Payable first to my order 
and then to Mr. Eollins. 

Q. Then it would require your indorsement and Mr. Eollins's indorse- 
ment before I could get the money on it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. On what bank was that check drawn ? — A. On the National Bank 
of Commerce. 

Q. Where is that bank located? — A. In the same building as the 
offices of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 

Q. Was there any other check drawn at that time payable to me, or 
any check that was delivered to me? — A. I have not stated that any 
check was made payable to you, but that it was delivered to you. I 
have stated that I delivered to you the $19,000 check. 

Q. Was it delivered open ? — A. Certainly. 

Q. By whose direction did you deliver that check to me? — A. Either 
by Mr. Bushnell's or Mr. Williams's. I do not know which. 



362 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UN] ON PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. State as nearly as you can which you suppose it was. — A. I sup- 
pose Mr. Williams. 

Q. Have you ever seen that check since? — A. Yes. 

Q. Where is it? — A. It was in the office of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company when I last saw it. 

Q. Was it indorsed by anybody? — A. Only the indorsements which 
I have already stated. 

Q. You fixed the date of that as the 9th of March, 1871 ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. What was your position at that time ? — A. I was cashier of the 
company, and acted as assistant treasurer. 

Q. Did you act at the same time for the Credit Mobilier ? — A. No, 
sir; I never had anything to do with the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. This was a Union Pacific Railroad check for $19,000 drawn on the 
National Bank of Commerce and delivered to me by you by direction of 
Mr. J. S. M. Williams, treasurer of the company? — A. I should say by 
Mr. Williams, but it may have been by Mr. Bushnell. 

Mr. James F. Wilson then made the following statement : 

Mr. Chairman : I desire to state that never since I have been con- 
nected with the Union Pacific Railroad Company have I handled a dol- 
lar of the money of that company except such as I have received for 
my services as a Government director, and for the preparation of a 
pamphlet, to a small amount. All of my vouchers are made out regu- 
larly, and are on file in the office, where they can be obtained. I have 
received no money for myself or for any other person, that I can recall, 
from the Union Pacific Railroad Company, except as I have stated. I 
desire that these checks may be obtained and that every person whose 
hands they have passed through may be examined. I farther wish to 
state that I have no recollection of ever having been in that bank. If 
I am acquainted with any person in that bank I cannot now recall it, 
and I am sure that if I had gone in there with a check to that amount 
they would have required some identification of me or an indorsement of 
the check by myself or by some person acquainted in the bank. I wish 
also to state, and I will do it in the presence of Mr. Clark, the present 
president of the company, that so far from ever having had anything to 
do with the money of the company or endeavoring to influence legisla- 
tion, or being paid for any professional services to the company, Mr. 
Clark has applied to me to act on some occasions as counsel for the 
company, and that I have invariably declined to do so, on the ground 
that I would not put myself in a position which would compromise me. 

Mr. Horace F. Clark. You will also state that I never proposed 
that you should be employed as counsel in any legislative matter. 

Mr. James F. Wilson. No. sir. I speak now of legal services. 

Mr. Clark. Not legislative. 

Mr. Wilson. Not legislative. I have taken no part in regard to 
legislation. When this legislation was had in regard to the interest 
question I was not in Washington. I have invariably abstained from 
endeavoring to influence Congress or any member of Congress concern- 
ing any legislation in which the Union Pacific Railroad Company was 
interested from the time I left Congress and became a Government 
director down to the present. Mr. Clark calls to my mind this moment 
a conversation we had on that subject at one time, in which he stated 
that he never would, under any circumstances, allow any money to be 
used for that purpose if he knew it. 

Mr. Clark. Nor has one cent been so used. 

Mr. Wilson. These checks have undoubtedly passed to some person. 



CKED1T MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. '363 

There is but one possible way that I can think of by which that check 
might have got in my hands. Mr. Spence, if he drew that check, may 
have asked me to hand it to some person, but I have not even got that 
recollection. It is often the case that a paper is handed to some person 
to hand to another who might be out at the time ; but as to ever hav- 
ing handled a dollar of that money, knowing anything about that check, 
or ever having used the money that that check represented, or as to 
knowing where that money has gone to, I utterly and emphatically 
deny. 

By Mr. Shellabargee : 

Q. Were you in Boston on the 9th of March, 1871 % — A. Yes, sir ; the 
directors had a meeting at that time, and I believe, as I stated the other 
day, that I attended all their meetings. 

Q. Do you recollect of being in the office of the Union Pacific Kail- 
road Company at that time ? — A. Undoubtedly, because the meeting 
of the board was held at the office of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany. 

Q. At the same place where Mr. Spence's office was?— A. Yes, sir. 
They occupy two or three rooms in the Sears building. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Was your attention called to this $126,000 item at the time you 
were there on the 9th of March, 1871 ? — A. I stated in my examination 
the other day that I had been appointed one of a committee - to which 
this account was referred, but that I declined to act on the committee. 
I stated on that occasion that I had seen reports in the papers that efforts 
were being made to secure favorable action by Congress, and I deter- 
mined that so far as that was concerned, or as the auditing of accounts 
was concerned about which there might be any question, I would not 
have anything to do with it. It was not my business as Government 
director to audit accounts j and, furthermore, I may state frankly that 
this idea occurred to me, that if I did act, notwithstanding all the rep- 
resentations I had heard of the money being properly used, still if there 
happened to be anything covered up, and which came out afterward, it 
would connect me as Government director with it. It was partly a 
matter of self defense against any future trouble. 

Q. The law requires that a Government director shall be placed upon 
every general or special committee'? — A. Either the law or the by-laws. 

Q. And you, as a Government director, were placed on that committee 
for the purpose of considering that account ? — A. I suppose that was 
the reason they placed me there. 

Q. But you declined to act with the committee? — A. Yes. 

Q. Leaving the Government unrepresented on the committee? — A. 
I may state that it is not a usual mode of doing business. The very 
fact that an account of the kind would be sent to a special committee 
was enough to cause me, or any other Government director, to hesitate. 
I understand this : that touching all subjects to which the Government 
interests can relate properly, they must have a Government director on 
committees; but I do not understand now that it is the place of a 
Government director to act as an auditing officer of the accounts of the 
company. 

Q. Was it the unusual character of that transaction which caused you 
not to act, or did that have any influence with you in not acting? — 
A. That may have had some influence ; it was just the combination 
of circumstances — what I had seen in the papers ; the unusual kind of 
proceeding • the possibility that I might have been misled in the rep- 



364" CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

resentations made to me ; all had their influence in inducing me not to 
put myself in a position where I might be compromised in the future, 
if there was anything wrong about it, and if the facts should afterward 
come out. 

Q. Was it understood, at that time, that there was something ques- 
tionable about that account of $126,000? — A. No, sir; I do not know 
that I heard anything of that kind among the directors. 

Q. Did you have suspicions of that kind in your own mind'? — A. I 
stated, the other day, the rumors which I had seen in the papers, and 
these, together with the unusual mode of doing the business, excited 
suspicion in my mind, of course. 

Q. You did not care to know if anything wrong had been done ? — A. 
No, sir ; I did not want to. If there was anything of the kind, I did 
not want to have anything to do with it. I did not know how I might 
be compromised if there was anything wrong, and I determined to keep 
clear of it. It may have been an injudicious conclusion on my part, 
but I am better satisfied to-day that my conclusion was correct than I 
was at the time. 

By Mr. HOAR : 

Q. You said, the other day, that you retired, leaving the other mem- 
bers of that committee in a room by themselves ? — A. I went across 
the hall to the room, and told those gentlemen that I should decline to 
act. 

Q. Thereupon you left the room? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you leave the building after that, or did you go back to the 
treasurer's room again % — A. I went to the directors' room. 

Q. Was that the room where this witness, Spence, was ? — A. He was 
in an adjoining room ; the rooms opened into each other. 

Q. Did you see again these gentlemen of the committee after they 
came out of the committee-room ? — A. Undoubtedly I must have sees, 
them, because they went in and out of the directors' room. 

Q. Did you see any of the checks drawn or that were drawn for that 
$126,000 ?— A. I did not ; I have no recollection of it. The only pos- 
sible way in which Mr. Spence's statement may have the color of truth 
is, that there may have. been papers handed me- to hand to somebody 
else. 

Q. Did you receive and make use of, or dispose of, in any way, for 
your own benefit, or that of any other person, any check drawn by him 
or indorsed by him on that day 1 — A. No, sir. 

Q. In any form or shape 1 ?— A. No, sir ; unless it may have been in 
the manner I have stated. 

Q. But I speak of using a check for your own use ? — A. Then I answer 
the question specifically, that I did not. 

Q. You have no knowledge of any check being drawn on that day, 
so far as you now remember ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You do not know* what disposition was made of any check drawn 
on that day, if any was drawn ? — A. I do not. 

Q. And you did not make use of any check, or of the proceeds of 
any check, drawn that day, either for your own use or that of any other 
person f — A. I did not. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. Was there any other Government director at that meeting besides 
yourself? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Who were they ? — A. I think Mr. Price was present, and my im- 
pression is that Mr. Wade was also there. 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC KAILROAD. 365 

Q. Was either of those other Government directors put on this com- 
mittee which you declined to serve upon ? — A. Not that I know of. 

Q. The 13th section of the act of 1864 contains this provision : " One 
of said Government directors shall be placed on each of the standing 
committees of said company, and at least one on every special com- 
mittee that may be appointed. The Government directors shall, from 
time to time, report to the Secretary of the Interior, in answer to any 
inquiry he may make of them touching the condition, management, 
and progress of the work, and shall communicate to the Secretary of 
the Interior, at any time, such information as should be in the posses- 
sion of the Department." I now inquire whether any of those sus- 
picions or apprehensions that deterred you from going on that commit- 
tee were communicated to the Secretary of the Interior by you at any 
time? — A. They 'were not; for I had no definite information on the sub- 
ject to communicate. 

Q. But it was sufficiently definite to deter you from acting on the 
committee ? — A. It was sufficiently definite'to cause me to shrink from 
putting myself in a position where I might be compromised by other 
developments. It was partly self-defensive. 

Q. The committee would like to have the benefit of any explanation 
that you may desire to give, as to why it was not your duty under the 
act of Congress instead of shrinking from that investigation, to enter 
upon and make it, and report it to the Department ; and now you have 
the opportunity to give such explanation if you have any to give. — A. 
My explanation can only be a repetition, mainly, of what I have said — 
that I do not regard it as the duty of a Government director to audit the 
accounts of the company, or to subject himself to positions where he 
might be compromised, merely because the board conclude to raise a 
special committee. It was an unusual course of procedure. If the 
board should attempt to change its mode of doing business, and should 
raise special committees, I do not regard it as the duty of a Government 
director to go on and act with every committee that may be appointed. 

Q. But here was a committee raised for the purpose of seeing whether 
a large amount of the assets of this company had been used wrongfully.' 
Is that not a proper subject for an investigation by a committee of the 
directors ? — A. I did not understand at the time that that committee was 
raised for the purpose of seeing whether money had been spent wrong- 
fully. I heard nothing of that kind. But the committee was appointed 
out of the usual course of business to examine a large account. 

Q. These moneys, however, were moneys of the company % — A. I sup- 
pose so. 

Q. The question may have been whether they were legitimately ap- 
plied for purposes for which they might be lawfully applied. — A. A 
great many questions might arise touching the use of the funds of that 
corporation which do not involve the immediate interests of the Govern- 
ment. I understand this, that whatever rights the Government has 
under this legislation, as against the Union Pacific Bailroad Company, 
if that company discharges its obligations, it is not a legitimate subject 
of inquiry for the Government as to what the company does with every 
dollar of its money. It has the control of its own finances. If it so 
manages its affairs that it responds to the obligations which it owes to 
the Government, that is a discharge of its duty. On these questions I 
have differed from a number of the directors ever since I have been 
connected with the board. 

Q. Is it your view of the obligations of the directors, that they ought 
not to inquire into the question whether the funds of the Union Pacific 



366 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Eailroad Company, including those bestowed by the Government, shall 
be or have been applied to the purposes for which they were given, to 
wit, the construction of a great line of railroad and the preserving it in 
a condition of solvency and strength which would enable it perpetually 
to accomplish the purposes for which it was created ? — A. I do not think 
that I differ from the views which are suggested by your question. 

Q. I want to know whether the United States have not a direct in- 
terest in the solvency, strength, and perpetual duration of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company, and one which was designed to be secured 
by providing Government directors who should be disinterested in its 
aifairs? — A. Undoubtedly; and I think that we have endeavored to 
discharge our duties in that respect. 

Q. Then the diversion of any of its means from the fair legal purposes 
of their bestowal would be a matter in which the Government would be 
concerned, and after which it ought to look through its directors? — A.. 
It would be the concern of the Government if any of the rights of the 
Government were likely to be put in jeopardy. 

Q. Anything that would affect the solvency of the company would 
affect the interest which the Government had in it, would it not? — A. 
Yes. 

Q. Then any misappropriation of the funds of the company would 
affect that solvency? — A. Yes; any misuse of the money. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. The duty of the Government directors is to report on the manage- 
ment of the institution, is it not? — A. Yes. 

Q. And you supposed that it was your duty as a Government director 
to inform yourself of the character of the investment of the funds of the 
company, in order to make that report? — A. I have endeavored to 
do so. 

Q. I understood you to state that you had seen in the papers intima- 
tions to the effect that moneys had been used, or might have been used, 
with a view of corruptly influencing legislation, — A. IsTo, sir ; I did not 
state that. 

Q. What were the intimations in the papers ? — A. I cannot recall 
them specifically. They were just such reports as you usually see in 
the papers when Congress is in session. 

Q. But there was something which you did not wish to know, and did 
not wish to connect your name with ? — A. Undoubtedly. I did not 
wish to connect my name with anything wrong, nor to put myself in a 
position where I might be compromised by developments subsequently, 
and of which I had no "knowledge at the time. 

Q. Therefore you refrained from knowing the character of those trans- 
actions further ? — A. Not from knowing. 

Q. If you had gone on that committee you would have learned the 
character of that expenditure ? — A. I do not know. That was one of 
the points to be considered by me, whether I might have been misled 
by representations made. 

Q. Did you not think that hearing the only statement that was made 
to any of the authorities of the company, as to what that $126,000 had 
been expended for would have helped you to learn something about 
it?— A. It might. 

Q. Did you not think that it was your duty, as a Government di- 
rector, charged with the function of ascertaining and reporting to the 
Government the management of this road, to know, if you could, 
whether or not its funds were used for the purpose of corrupting legis- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 367 

lation, and to report it if you found it out 1 — A. I certainly should bave 
reported it. 

Q. Did you not think that it was a part of your duty to know that 
fact, if it existed, and to report it 1 — A. I do not see that I can change 
the answer which I have given. These various several considerations 
entered into my mind at the time. I have found it difficult, since I have 
been a Government director, to ascertain very much about the details 
of the affairs of the company — the same difficulty which, I think, the 
gentlemen of this committee have discovered to some extent in pursu- 
ing this investigation. 

Mr. Hoar. We have not found it so difficult as I wish we had found it. 

The Witness. I had not the power which the committee had. I 
could not send for persons and- papers. You have had the aid of the 
power of the House of Representatives, and still you have found diffi 
culties in pursuing this investigation. 

Q. What I want to know is whether the fear that there might turn 
out in the future to be something wrong connected with that transac- 
tion had anything to do with influencing you in declining to know about 
it % — A. It had. It was one of the considerations. 

Q. Then 1 want to know whether you do not think that it was your 
duty, if there was anything wrong of the kind indicated, to know it if you 
could, and to report it to the Government -% — A. As I have already 
stated, it was not within the scope of what I regarded as the duty of a 
Government director. « 

Q. But was it not your duty to inquire into the character of an ac- 
count as to which there might be a question whether it was employed 
for the purpose of corrupting legislation % — A. That may have been a 
duty ; and at the same time I may have acted there, as men frequently 
do in the presence of what may be absolutely a duty, from a little over- 
caution. I may have been affected more by what 1 regarded as neces- 
sary in protecting my own position. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. How could you have been compromised if you had acted with that 
committee, and learned the facts and reported«thein to the Secretary ? — 
A. That is not the idea at all which I intended to convey. 

Q. Well, lest there might be a construction put upon your testimony 
which you do not desire it to bear, I put that question to you. — A. If 
I had discovered anything wrong, I should have embraced it in our next 
report. I have endeavored to prevent anything that I knew to be wrong 
in the affairs of the company, and I have been in a great many contro- 
versies with members of the board over their policy. 

By Mr. Slocum : 
Q. Who had control of the road at the time of this occurrence I— A. 
Mr. Thomas A. Scott was president. I think Mr. Scott was elected at 
that meeting. Mr. Oliver Ames was president prior to that. 

The examination of Benjamin W. Spence was resumed, as follows : 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Question. Are you in the employment of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company now ? — Answer. No, sir. 

Q. When did you cease to be in its employment 1 — A. I left there in 
June, 1871. 

Q. For what reason did you leave % — A. On account of a change in 
the treasuryship, I suppose. 



368 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. In whose employment are you now ? — A. I am not in the employ- 
ment of any one. I am attending to my own business. 

Q. Did yon leave Mr. Williams's employment at that time ? — A. Mr. 
Williams left before I did. I remained a month or two after Mr. Wil- 
liams left. 

Q. Were yon discharged, or did you resign % — A. I resigned. 
Q. Did you resign of your own volition, or were you asked to re- 
sign? — A. I saw that Mr. Eollins, who was treasurer-elect, wanted to 
have somebody else in my position, so I gave him a chance to put some- 
body else there, and I resigned. 

Q. Who took your place ? — A. I cannot recollect his name just now $ 
he was connected with some newspaper in Concord, New Hampshire. 

Q. Did you have any difficulty with Mr. Eollins, or did they find any 
fault with you ? — A. No, sir ; never. 

Q. What I want to get at is whether you were discharged on account 
of any difficulty with the officers of this company ? — A. I had no diffi- 
culty. If the committee will allow me, I would like to put in a paper 
which I have here, which may perhaps explain that there was no ill- 
feeling when I left. 

The witness handed to the committee a paper which was allowed to be 
put in evidence, and which is as follows : 

Union Pacific Eailroad Company, Sears Building-, 

Boston, April 29, 1871. 
Mr. B. W. Spence has been employed in this office for the past two 
years as chief clerk and cashier, and the undersigned take pleasure in 
recommending him as a gentleman of excellent character and a superior 
accountant. 

We have full confidence in his integrity and ability, and feel assured 
that he will perform any duty he may undertake to the satisfaction of 
his employers. 

OLIVEE AMES. 
JOHN B. ALLEY. 
ELISHA ATKINS. 
JOHN M. S. WILLIAMS. 
E. H. EOLLINS, 

Treasurer and Secretary, 
H. B. WILBOB, 

Auditor. 
Q. Was Mr. Alley a director at that time ? — A. I think not. 
Q. Have you any difficulty or hard feeling with any of the gentlemen 
who are now or have been connected with the management of the 
road ? — A. No, sir $ not the least, except it may be, perhaps, Mr. Eol- 
lins ; for he told me that if he were elected treasurer of the company he 
should use his influence to have me appointed assistant treasurer ; but 
he did not do so. 

By Mr. Oakes Ames, (with the permission of the committee:) 

Qc Did you not bring a suit against the company, after you left, for 
extra pay ! — A. I did. 

Q. Did you not make a claim upon Morton, Bliss & Co., of New York, 
for a bonus for correcting a mistake which you had made yourself? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you not hide some coupons, and afterward write a letter to 
Morton, Bliss & Co., claiming a reward for correcting a mistake that 
you made yourself? — A. No, sir; I never did. 

(Witness here handed to the chairman two newspaper slips.) 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 369 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do these slips have a reference to the question put by Mr. Ames, 
in reference to your suit against the company % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Where was that suit brought % — A. In the superior court at Bos- 
ton, and it was appealed by the company to the supreme court, and was 
tried there, and I recovered in that action. 

Q. Do you recollect the amount which you recovered against the com- 
pany? — A. Two thousand two hundred and sixty-seven dollars. 

Q. Bead those slips to the committee. 

A. (Beading:) 

Supreme judicial court, October 2. — Before Judge Gray. 

Benjamin W. Spence vs. Union Pacific Bailroad Company. — Suit to 
recover $4,830.61, alleged balance due for services as cashier of said 
company from June 20, 1869, to May 23, 1871, at the salary of $2,500 ; 
and also for extra services rendered as auditor, assistant treasurer of 
the trustees, and assistant treasurer of the company. Defense : That they 
never agreed to pay for any extra services, and owe only for services 
as cashier. Testimony concluded. 

William Gaston and J. B. Bichardson for plaintiif ; David Thaxter 
for defendants. 

Supreme judiciary court. 

Verdict against the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

In the case of B. W. Spence vs. the Union Pacific Bailroad Company, 
the jury have returned a verdict of $2,267 for the plaintiff. 

The action was brought to recover $4,800 for two years' services as 
chief clerk and cashier. The plaintiff contended that he was hired in 
the double capacity of clerk and cashier. The defense was that the 
plaintiff was hired only as clerk, and that he had been paid in full 
for such services. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. Have you stated to the committee the immediate cause of your 
resignation? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you satisfied that you were in such a position there, wit- 
nessing the operations that were going on there, that you would have, 
preferred not to remain there as an officer of the company ? Would not 
any other place have been more agreeable to you ? — A. Yes, after Mr. 
Williams resigned. I felt a confidence in him, knowing his character and 
standing ; and while he remained, I wanted to stop; but after he left, 
it was immaterial to me whether I remained or not. 

Q. 1 understand you to mean that the proceedings were of so irreg- 
ular a character that you had no desire to be connected with the com- 
pany any longer ? — A. I did not care to know any more than I did, and 
I know a good deal more than I wish I had known. 

Q. There were a good many transactions there which you did not 
feel authorized to approve ? — A. It would not be competent for me, in 
my position, to have anything to say to them; I was not a bonded 
officer. 

Q. Did you not feel in your position there, as an honest, upright, man, 
that you would prefer to occupy some other position ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Bather than witness developments that were going on there from 
day to day 1 — A. Yes, sir. 
24 c M 



370 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. And did not that feeling have its weight upon you in resigning f — 
A. I do not know that I would say that 5 I had not thought of that so 
much then as I have thought of it since. 

Q. But you say from what you know now, and reflecting on the trans- 
actions that took place there, that you would have felt more comfortable 
to be out of it ? — A. Yes, sir ; I would rather be in some other position 
with less pay. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. I understood you to say that Mr. Eollins had promised that if he 
were elected treasurer he would have you elected assistant treasurer. — 
A. He said he would use his influence to have me elected. 

Q. You desired, of course, that he should do so! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then there is no doubt that you wanted to continue with the com- 
pany if Mr. Eollins had kept his word ?— A. Not in the capacity that I 
was then in. 

Q. You do not profess to come here now and say that you had a 
moral disapprobation of the proceedings which made you wish to get 
out of that employment ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You would have staid in that employment if you had got the posi- 
tion of assistant treasurer % — A. Yes, sir ; if I had had that position and 
the pay. 

Q. And you left without any hard feeling against any member of the 
company except Mr. Eollins, who did not keep his word with you 1 — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Has there been no ill-feeling growing out of this suit ? — A. That 
was after I left. 

Q. In the trial of this suit, did you conceive that you were treated 
unjustly by the company in its resisting your just demand ? — A. They 
all went into court and swore against me. I went in single-handed. 

Q. What I want to know is, whether there is anything in your present 
state of feeling which makes you have a dislike to those gentlemen. — 
A. None at all. I would like to shake hands with all of them. 

Q. Was there no hard feeling growing out of this suit on your part 
toward them, or on their part toward you, so far as you know ? — A. 
No, sir. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. I understood you to say that you would rather be out of the con- 
cern, and that that had its influence with you in resigning? — A. I do 
not know that I said that exactly. I do not think that that influenced 
me to send in my resignation ; but I have said that since I left I would 
rather not have any connection with the office. 

Q. What amount was the treasurer in the habit of drawing in blank ? — 
A. The checks were in blank. Mr. Williams would sign up ten or a dozen 
pages or more, but they were all in blank. I could have drawn out all 
the funds of the company at any time by my signature. All the funds 
of the company were subject to my order. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. How, or through what banks, were those checks collected ? — A. 
The $24,500 check was collected through Gillman, Son & Co., New 
York, through the National Bank of the State of New York, and the 
$196,000 check was collected through the Giiard National Bank, of 
Philadelphia. 

(The committee here took a recess till 7 p. m.) 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 371 

Washington, D. C, January 28, 1873. 

EVENING SESSION. 

Benjamin F. Ham's examination resumed. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. State again, so that we may have the statement in connec- 
tion with your present testimony, what were your relations with the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company. — Answer. I was auditor of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company from January, 1867, until October, 1870. 

Q. State what, if any, relation you held to the Credit Mobilier. — A. 
I have been assistant secretary and treasurer from May, 1867, until the 
present time, with the exception of a little over a year. 

Q. When was that? — A. (Referring to the record.) From December, 
1868, until May, 1870, I was not an officer of the Credit Mobilier at all. 

Q. Were you an officer or employe of those trustees at any time ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. State what work was done by the Credit Mobilier in the way of 
construction of the Union Pacific Railroad, and under what contracts it 
was done. — A. The work under the Hoxie contract was done before I 
had anything to do with it. It was finished in 1866, before I came to 
New York. There was also finished previous to my coming to New 
York fifty miles in addition to the Hoxie contract ; and after my con- 
nection with the company commenced the Credit Mobilier did nothing 
in the way of building the road. 

Q. Are you familiar with the books of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany and of the Credit Mobilier ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. State what it cost the Union Pacific Railroad Company to build 
that portion of its road between the Missouri and the one hundredth 
meridian under the Hoxie contract. — A. It cost them $50,000 per mile ; 
that was the contract price ; and then it also cost them other necessary 
expenses, keeping up the organization, losses, discounts on the securi- 
ties, &c. 

Q. Give the committee the figures. — A. I cannot, without referring 
to the books. 

Q. Refer to the books, then.— A. Up to the 30th of March, 1867, the 
cost was represented by $14,290,835.90. 

Q. That was the cost up to the 100th meridian ? — A. Yes, sir. Of 
course I cannot state that cost was all incurred just up to the 100th me- 
ridian, because there might have been some disbursements appearing in 
the account which would apply beyond that. 

Q, I want to know the cost up to the 100th meridian, if you can give 
it. — A. I cannot give it ; it cannot be separated. 

Q. Can you give the cost up to the end of the 58 miles? — A. No, sir; 
I cannot divide it. I can give you the cost of the entire road, though. 

Q. Can you tell what each one of those contracts cost? — A. I can tell 
you what each contract was. The contract was for so much ; but I can 
tell you also that there were other expenses, preliminary surveys and 
other preliminary expenses, which had been incurred up to that time 
and which extended away beyond. 

Q. In this $14,290,835.90 is there included an item of $2,000,000, for 
which a note was given? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When is the last item before that $2,000,000 note?— A. In the 
early part of 1867, the account between the Credit Mobilier and the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company was adjusted, and the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company directors passed a resolution acknowledging the indebtedness, 



372 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

two million and some odd thousand dollars. That remained some time, 
until it was necessary to use this note, and then the note was given on 
that account. 

Q. Please find that on the records of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany. — A. (Eeading.) "March 28, 1867. Mr. Sherman reported as fol- 
lows : The committee to whom the account with the Credit Mobilier was 
referred report that the vouchers for an item which at our last report 
was not furnished have been now produced, and we have examined 
them and found them satisfactory. We therefore report that there was 
due on the Hoxie contract on the 31st of January, 1867, $1,994,769.96, 
which, when paid, should be a fall and complete settlement of that con- 
tract for the construction and equipment of the road from that point to 
the 100th meridian. On motion, the report was accepted and the account 
ordered to be paid." Now this balance had been made up by me, on be- 
half of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and by Mr. Crane, who then 
represented the Credit Mobilier, before I had anything to do with the 
Credit Mobilier. We had come to this as the balance due on that con- 
tract, and it was adjusted then by the directors of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company and acknowledged as a credit. 

Q. That, then, makes the cost of the road from Omaha to the 100th 
meridian $14,290,835.90 ? — A. No, sir ; I did not so state. I stated that 
there might be charged in that $14,290,835.90 some money that was ex- 
pended on the road beyond the 100th meridian. 

Q. Give us the amount that had been paid out on the Hoxie contract 
prior to that time. — A. The amount paid on the Hoxie contract up to 
the 30th of March, 1867, was $13,381,342.33. 

Q. Is this amount that was allowed by the board in that sum ? — A. 
That was the balance. 

Q. Was this $1,994,769.96 embraced in that $13,381,342.33 ?— A. Yes; 
but there was another item. There was an item 'of $406,926.09 for in- 
terest. That should be deducted from the $13,381,342.33. 

Q. That leaves $12,974,416.24; that amount had been paid up to what 
time ?— A. Up to the 1st of January, 1867. 

Q. You observe that that resolution which you read a moment ago 
only embraces the road between the one hundredth meridian and 
Omaha ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. They found out in some way how much was due on the Hoxie con- 
tract at that time, did they not ?— A. What they did was to take the 
money that they had paid Hoxie, and which was already charged to 
him in the books, and credited him with this item, and that left the 
balance so much. 

Q. State now how much it cost the company to build the road under 
the Hoxie contract from Omaha to the one hundredth meridian % — A. 
Twelve million nine hundred and seventy-four thousand four hundred 
and sixteen dollars and twenty-four cents. That was the amount ad- 
justed between the two companies. 

Q. Have you the exact length of the road from Omaha to the one 
hundredth meridian ?— A. Yes, sir ; 246.72 miles. 

Q. That, at $50,000 a mile, amounts to what? — A. Twelve million 
three hundred and thirty-six thousand dollars. 

Q. That makes the Hoxie contract cost the company $638,416.24 more 
than the contract price ? — A. No, sir; it does not; because it was stipu- 
lated in the contract that the company should pay certain extras, and 
they did pay them. 

Q. That is the way you account for the difference between the con- 
tract price and what was paid ! — A. Yes, sir. The contract provided 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 373 

that if any of the bridges cost over $85,000, they would pay the differ- 
ence ; and there was one bridge that cost over $167,000. They paid 
also for burn etizing the ties and timbers; that was $20,000; and there 
was also extra cost of transportation. The company abandoned part of 
the line, too, and Mr. Hoxie was paid for work on that abandoned line, 
$70,000. 

Q. Do you mean that that was paid to Mr. Hoxie, or to the Credit 
Mobilier f — A. It was paid under the Hoxie contract. 

Q. It was paid to the Credit Mobilier ? — A. No, sir ; it was paid under 
the Hoxie contract. 

Q. Who had that contract ! — A. That was before I had anything to 
do with it ; it was before I came. 

Q. As a matter of fact, the Hoxie contract was transferred to the 
Credit Mobilier ? — A. Mr. Crane can tell you that positively. 

Q. It was paid on that contract, at all events ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What (lid it cost the company to build the next fifty- eight miles 
of road ? — A. That I cannot tell you. 

Q. Before passing from that, tell us what it cost the Credit Mobilier 
to build the road up to the one hundredth meridian. — A. Seven million 
eight hundred and six thousand one hundred and eighty-three dollars 
and thirty-three cents. 

Q. Did the Credit Mobilier make other profits beyond the one hun- 
dredth meridian ? — Yes, sir; under the Oakes Ames contract they 
were entitled to the profits on fifty-eight miles. 

Q. How much were they? — A. There was $1,104,000, 1 think, paid on 
account of that. It never was adjusted. 

Q. That is what it was estimated at ? — A. No, sir ; that is simply a 
sum that the trustees wanted to pay the Credit Mobilier, and they paid 
that much. I do not know just how that was made up, but I know 
that was the sum that was paid. 

Q. Can you tell how much money was paid out on that fifty-eight 
miles by the Union Pacific Kailroad Company, or by the Credit Mobilier, 
in its construction ? — A. No, sir ; I cannot. 

Q. Is there any mode by which that can be ascertained from the 
books ? — A. I don't think there is. 

Q. So that there is no way of ascertaining the cost of construction of 
the fifty-eight miles ? — A. No ; I don't think there is. 

Q. All that you can tell about it is that in an adjustment between the 
Credit Mobilier and these trustees there was $1,104,000 awarded to the 
Credit Mobilier as profits upon that fifty-eight miles of road? — A. It was 
not an adjustment. 

Q. What was it ? — A. It was simply so much paid on account. 

Q. Does the Credit Mobilier claim that there is anything more com- 
ing to that corporation on that account ? — A. It has been claimed that 
it should be adjusted when the final settlement came. 

Q. How is it proposed to be adjusted ? — A. I don't know. 

Q. Is there any mode by which it can be adjusted except by a guess ? — 
A. I don't know that there is; possibly there maybe; I don't know 
how to get that fifty-eight miles by itself; I might have done it four or 
five years ago, but it would be a pretty difficult matter now. 

Q. On the loth of November, 1867, or before that time, had you made 
up an account of the profits made by the Credit Mobilier up to that 
date ?— A. I don't know that I had. 

Q. Look at that letter-book and say if you wrote that letter, and then 
state to what you referred in that letter, if you did write it— A. (Kefer- 



374 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

ring to the letter.) I may have made up such a statement as that, but 
it would have been only an approximate statement. 
Q. Will you please read that letter! — A. (Eeading) — 

"Credit Mobilier of America, 

u Neiv York Agency, November 15, 1867. 
"Bear Sir: Inclosed herewith I send you statement of the affairs of 
the Credit Mobilier of America to September 30; also statement of 
cost of road east of the one hundredth meridian, and will send you, in a 
day or two, statement of what the road has actually cost, being amount 
expended by both Credit Mobilier of America and Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company. 

"Respectfully, 

"BENJAMIN F. HAM, 

"Assistant Secretary. 
"J. M. S. Williams, Esq., 

" Boston, Massachusetts." 

Now, I have no recollection of ever making up that statement that 1 
said I would send him. If I did, it would have been an approximate 
statement. I could have made up a statement, such as I have made to 
you, of the cost of the road to the one hundredth meridian, and it is 
possible that that was the statement I referred to there — the cost both 
to the company and to the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. You have no recollection of making up any such statement? — A. 
No, sir; I have not; but if I did make one it would probably be to the 
one hundredth meridian and nothing beyond that. That would be easy 
enough. I have given you the figures here. 

Q. What did the Oakes Ames contract cost the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company? — A. That has never been settled. 

Q. As far as it has been settled what has it cost the company ? — A. 
There has been simply so much paid on account. It never has been 
settled. 

Q. Read the resolution shown you. — A. (Reading.) "Mr. Bushnell 
offered a resolution that the treasurer pay over to the Credit Mobilier 
of America, in accordance with the provisions of the contract of Oakes 
Ames with the Union Pacific Railroad Company of August 16, 1867, and 
the assignment to the trustees, the sum of $1,104,000, or a sufficient sum 
to enable them to make the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany held by them full paid. Carried unanimously. 7 ' 

Q. What do you understand that resolution to mean'? — A. It means 
that they paid over so much money to the Credit Mobilier, and the 
Credit Mobilier took that money and paid it to the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company on account of stock that they held. It was 30 per 
cent, stock. The Credit Mobilier held a lot of Union Pacific Railroad 
Company's stock ; there was 30 per cent, paid on it, and they took that 
amount there and made the stock full paid. 

Q. Can you show by the books of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany that that money went into that company? — A. January 4, 1868, 
the contractors subscribed for 22,960 shares. The Credit Mobilier sub- 
scribed and paid 70 per cent, on 15,886 shares. 

Q. Explain just how this thing was done. You say that this 
$1,104,000 was paid to the Union Pacific Railroad Company by the 
Credit Mobilier? — A. Yes, sir; they paid so much. They did not pay 
$1,104,000; they paid $1,111,670 and $4,000. 

Q. How did they pay that?— A. They took the $1,104,000 that they 
got from the trustees, and I don't know how they paid the balance. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 375 

Q. Do you mean to say that they paid over in actual cash $1,104,000? — 
A. I don't mean to say that they paid greenbacks or gold either. 

Q. Tell us how they did it, then. — A. They probably paid over checks; 
I don't know. 

Q. Did the Union Pacific Eailroad Company at that time owe the 
Credit Mobilier ? — A. No, sir ; they owed the Oakes Ames contract, and 
they paid them, as you will find, on the same day, $6,800,000. 

Q. How were those amounts paid ? — A. I don't know whether there 
were any checks used or not. I was not the treasurer of the concern. 
I don't know whether there were checks given, or whether there was 
simply a receipt given for that amount, and then a receipt given for this 
amount. 

Q. How much stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company did the 
Credit Mobilier hold at that time? — A. They probably held this amount, 
15,886 shares of 30 per cent, stock, and also that five shares, though 
that was fifty shares really. 

Q. On that amount of stock $30 on the hundred had been paid ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. And when this $1,104,000 was paid over by the trustees to the 
Credit Mobilier, the Credit Mobilier made a payment, you say, of 70 per 
cent, on that stock ? — A. Yes, sir; so as to make that stock full paid. 

Q. Do you think that was all of the stock that the Credit Mobilier 
held at that time ? — A. They may have held a few shares of full- paid 
stock at that time. 

Q. How did those contractors get those 22,960 shares of stock? — A. 
They subscribed for it. 

Q. In what way ? — A. I think Mr. Crane subscribed for it as secre- 
tary of the Oakes Ames contract — subscribed for it on the subscription- 
book — new shares. Mr. Oakes Ames in his contract agreed, I believe, 
to procure subscriptions to the capital stock. 

Q. Then the trustees, standing in the place of Oakes Ames, took those 
22,960 shares on account of that contract, did they ? — A. That is the 
view you may take of it. 

Q. That is the plain English of it ? — A. No, sir ; because the charter 
prohibited them from taking anything for stock except cash. We paid 
cash, received cash, and put it down as cash. 

Q. Do you pretend to say that they paid over, dollar for dollar, the 
amount of money that is represented by these 22,960 shares ? — A. I 
think they drew checks. 

Q. But you said they paid cash. — A. Well, a check is considered 
cash. 

Q. You say the charter required that cash should be paid for stock? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Y. And do you mean to say that that was cash ? — A. I mean to say 
that I was not the treasurer of the concern. 

Q. Who made this entry ? — A. The book-keeper. 

Q. He was under your direction ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then I repeat the question : Do you mean to say that that was 
cash ? — A. I don't mean to say that greenbacks passed. 

Q. Didn't they get that stock on account of road-building; don't you 
know that that was the case? — A. I know it was estimated that there 
was so much due them on the contract, $6,800,000, and that was paid to 
them. That was the way of it. 

Q. Paid to them how % — A. I have told you that I don't know whether 
checks passed or not ; I did not have charge of that transaction ) I was 
not the treasurer, and I did not have the matter under my charge. 



376 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Who was the treasurer at that time ? — A. Mr. John J. Cisco ; I 
know, though, that if it had been necessary to bring in the greenbacks 
there they could have been brought in and paid over. 

Q. And they could have been taken out again also ? — A. Yes, sir ; 
and the checks could have been deposited in bank. 

Q. But there might have been no money to meet them f — A. I draw 
my checks every day when there is no money in the bank. 

Q. Now, was not this all a paper transaction % — A. It may have been 
so. 

Q. Was it not simply an exchange of checks and receipts ? — A. It 
may have been so $ I didn't dispute that. 

Q. Don't you know that that was the way? — A. No, sir 5 I don't 
know it. 

Q. Were you not familiar with those things a£ that time ? — A. No, 
sir ; I was not familiar with what the treasurer did. 

Q. Where was the treasurer's office % — A. It was right there in the 
same building. 

Q. In the same room ? — A. Yes, sir ; in the same room, in the same 
office ; I acknowledge all that. 

Q. Is it possible, then, that this could have been done without your 
knowing how it was done f — A. Yes, sir ; it is possible that there might 
have been checks, or that there might not have been checks. 

Q. Is it probable ! — A. Yes $ it is probable that there were. 

Q. Is it the fact that this transaction was gone through with there, 
and you did not know how it was done % — A. Yes, sir 5 it is a fact that 
I don't know the particulars at this late day. I might have been able 
to tell you three or four years ago, but I don't keep these books and 
transactions in my memory. I have sufficient business of my own to 
attend to without doing that. 

Q. This was your business then? — A. Yes, sir 5 but it is not now. 
That $6,800,000 was due in cash. 

Q. And if these parties had paid in the cash for that stock the cash 
would have been there to pay that sum % — A. Yes. 

Q. But they did not pay in the cash, did they "? — A. At the distance 
of five years I can't state what they did do. 

Q. Do you say now that the money was ever paid on that capital 
stock % — A. Do I say that there was any real money handed in % 

Q. Yes ; that is the question. — A. No, sir 5 I don't assert any such 
thing. 

Q. Do you know that there was any real money paid in on that 
stock % — A. No, sir ; I do not. 

Q. What is your best impression ? — A. My best impression is that 
checks were exchanged. 

Q. State now what the Oakes Ames contract — I am speaking of the 
667 miles — cost the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. — A. That has not 
been adjusted. 

Q. How much has been paid on that 667 miles %— A. Fifty-eight mil- 
lion four hundred and seventy-five thousand eight hundred and seventy- 
eight dollars and forty-four cents. That is what the books show. 

Q. Do you know whether there is anything yet due on that con- 
tract ? — A. No, sir ; I do not, until the engineer makes his final esti- 
mate. I presume there is a little balance due to the Oakes Ames con- 
tract. 

Q. Can you give an estimate of the amount %— A. No, sir ; I cannot. 

Q. How much did that 667 miles of road cost the trustees % — A. That 
I can't state. I did not keep the books, and I had nothing to do with 



CKEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 377 

thein. I had nothing to do with those books of the trustees in any way, 
shape, or manner. 

Q. When payments were made on account of the Oakes Ames con- 
tract they covered the whole extent of the 667 miles, did they ! — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. How much money did the Davis contract cost the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company ? — A. That has never been settled. I can only give 
you the amount that has been paid on it. I see, on looking at the 
ledger, that there is another one which follows this and which is not 
here, so I cannot tell you the whole amount. This one shows the 
amount that was paid up to the time the books went to Boston. 

Q. How much w r as that 1 — A. Five million two hundred and fifty-nine 
thousand one hundred and eighty-two dollars and ninety-five cents. 
That is, up to the 19th of March, 1869. 

Q. Is that all the information you can give us as to the cost of that 
contract to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. If the other ledger 
was here I could tell you the exact cost. The books will show when 
you get them here — though I had nothing to do with that. 

Q. How many miles are embraced in the Davis contract f — A. I don't 
know ; the balance of the road is embraced in it. 

Q. Turn now to the books that show the dividend that was paid by 
the Credit Mobilier. — A. There are no books that show it ; nothing but 
receipts taken from the stockholders to the amount of the dividend. 
One dividend is all that was made. An impression has been conveyed 
that the Union Pacific Eailroad Company did not owe the Credit Mo- 
bilier anything.- I want it to be understood that they did owe them, 
and they owe them to-day. That account has never been settled. 

Q. How much profit was made by the Credit Mobilier on the Hoxie 
contract, and what they received on the fifty-eight miles west of the 
one hundredth meridian ? — A. The amount of profit they have received 
is $6,272,232.91. 

Q. And, as I understand you, there is more to be received ? — A. A 
small unadjusted balance. 

Q. What has been done with that amount of money which they made 
as profit ? — A. Some of it was paid for Union Pacific Eailroad bonds, 
which they (the Credit Mobilier) gave to their stockholders when they 
made their subscriptions to the increased capital. 

By Mr. HoAR : 
Q. What was the capital stock at that time ? — A. Nominally it was 
two and a half millions, but it was not that actually. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. What was the actual capital stock of the Credit Mobilier when 
they made that $6,272,232.91 profit?— A. Three million seven hundred 
and fifty thousand dollars ; no, not quite that ; it was $2,500,000 at that 
time; this was on the 1st of January, 1867; on that day it was 
$2,449,165, less $29,000. It lacked one hundred shares of being 
$2,500,000. 

Q. At the time when it was ascertained that they had made this 
amount of money? — A. yes, sir. 

Q. Tell us what was done with this profit that they made. — A. They 
purchased $1,125,000 bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, 
which they gave to their stockholders to get them to take some new 
stock. 

Q. How much new stock was taken?— A. One million one hundred 
and twenty-five thousand dollars. 



378 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. In other words, they increased their capital stock $1,125,000, and 
to induce the stockholders to take that amount of increased stock they 
gave each stockholder a $1,000 bond of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What became of the balance of that profit ? — A. Then they di- 
vided this Union Pacific stock on this dividend. 

Q. How had that six millions and upward of profit been paid to that 
contracting company'? — A. Well, they had on hand a large amount of 
stock ; they did not have it all on hand at once. 

Q. Did they have that much in money on hand at once ? — A. No, sir ; 
because they had sold or disposed of it. 

Q. What do you mean by saying they had sold it ? — A. I mean to say 
that they sold a lot of that stock to their stockholders. 

Q. Didn't they just divide it among the stockholders ?— A. That was 
done before I had anything to do with the concern. Mr. Durant can 
explain that transaction to you. 

Q. Well, that $6,272,232.91 of profit was disposed of in some way, 
was it not ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do those books show how it was disposed of? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then tell us how it was disposed of. — A. According to my under- 
standing of the case, they had a large amount of stock which the com- 
pany held, on which there had been 30 per cent, paid, and which they 
sold to the stockholders at 71, they agreeing to pay the 70 per cent, 
themselves. 

Q. You call that a sale; was it not a divide? — A. That was done 
before I had anything to do with the concern. 

Q. Then how do you know it was a sale? — A. Because Mr. Durant 
says it was sold, and he was president of the concern. 

Q. You have stated that there was a profit of six millions and some 
odd thousand dollars. Now I ask you what they did with that profit, 
and you say they sold certain things to their stockholders. — A. I say 
they sold a large amount of Union Pacific Eailroad stock, and I am 
telling you my understanding of the case as I had it from the officers 
of the company. This stock was $30 a share paid; they sold it at 71; 
the men receiving it agreeing to pay the additional 70 themselves. 

Q. Did those men pay in that additional 70 ? — A. Then this corpora- 
tion had a lot of scrip, which they sold to these men at 5 per cent, of 
its par value, and these men took that and made that stock full paid. 

Q. Did not this $6,272,232 of profits belong to the stockholders of 
the Credit Mobilier ? — A. It belonged to the corporation. 

Q. Then they were selling it to themselves ?— A. Yes ; they sold that 
to each stockholder in proportion to the amount that he had in the 
Credit Mobilier. They sold it to them at $71 a share. 

Q. Then the stockholders paid in $70 a share? — A. No, sir; there 
was $70 a share unpaid on the stock, and they agreed to pay it them- 
selves. 

Q. To pay it where ? — A. To the Union Pacific Eailroad Company — 
not to the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. Did they pay it to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company? — A. 
Every man turned in scrip. He received scrip from the Credit Mobilier, 
and he turned in scrip to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company to make 
his stock full paid. 

Q. I repeat the question, what disposition has been made of this profit, 
amounting to $6,272,232.91 ? — A. Well, they purchased bonds and stock 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company with that money ; then they 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 379 

sold the stock, a portion of it, to their own stockholders ; they divided 
some of it, and they also gave the bonds to their stockholders. 

Q. How much stock did they purchase? — A. The company purchased 
$3,310,700 of scrip. 

Q. What does that scrip represent ? — A. It is stock scrip, convertible 
into stock. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Those amounts are the nominal values ? — A. This is the par value, 
and that is what they paid for it. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. How much did they purchase ? — A. They purchased 1,037 first- 
mortgage bonds, and they paid $880,450 for them. 

Q. What do the items foot up ? — A. Seven million ninety -two thou- 
sand one hundred and fifty-two dollars. 

Q. Where did the excess over the amount of profit come from ? — A. 
Some of it is in the capital. 

Q. That was a part of the capital ? — A. Yes, sir; they have got some 
of it on hand at present. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. At what date did this occur % — A. They purchased this scrip and 
stock along at different times; from the very beginning of the company 
they commenced buying up these old $1,000 shares of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company, and they continued to buy it. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. How did they buy it ? — A. They bought it and paid for it with 
money. They took the money they received for their capital stock and 
bought stock of the Union Pacific Railroad with it. 

Q. At what rate % — A. Par ; dollar for dollar. 

Q. Can you show on the books of the company where that money 
was paid in ? — A. No, sir ; because they did not buy it from the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company, but of Thomas, Richard, and Henry — John 
Doe and Richard Roe — the men who held it. I can show you where 
John Doe and Richard Roe paid the money in, but I cannot show where 
the Credit Mobilier paid it in, because they paid the money, not to the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company, but to John Doe and Richard Roe. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. You are now speaking of the original two millions of dollars! — 
A. No, sir ; I am speaking of the original subscriptions to the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Made by whom ? — A. Persons all over the country. 
By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. I ask you if you are now speaking of the original $2,000,000 
which was subscribed before the company went into operation under 
the act on which 10 per cent, was paid in by the original subscribers ; 
is that the stock, or part of the stock, which was purchased by the Credit 
Mobilier, as you have stated ? — A. I don't know what the amount was 
that was necessary to make the organization of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company proper ; I don't remember whether it was $2,000,000. 

Q. There were $2,000,000 required to be subscribed ; in point of fact 



380 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

there were about $100,000 over that; of that 10 per cent, was required 
to be paid in in cash, making $210,000. That stock, under the act of 
1864, was liable, and required to be assessed by the directors of the 
company at such times as they saw fit, the longest intervals being fixed 
by the act ; and any new subscriber was bound to pay in, at the time of 
his subscription, as much as had been paid in by those who were origi- 
nal subscribers. Now. is it that original stock that you speak of as the 
stock purchased of individuals by the Credit Mobilier % — A. Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. What was done with what they purchased, stock, scrip, and 
bonds % — A. As I stated, some of this stock was sold to the stockhold- 
ers at $71 a share. I am giving you this from the records of the com- 
pany, for it took place before I came to New York. The scrip was sold 
at 5 per cent, of its par value to the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Do you mean by " scrip " a certificate which was given to a person 
who had made one or more payments on his stock but had not paid it up 
in full?— A. No, sir. 

Q. What is it % — A. This scrip was just a receipt for so much money ; 
it was called scrip ; that is all I know about it •; it was done before my 
time ; it did not represent so many shares ; it represented so many dol- 
lars' worth of scrip, and it was convertible in stock. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. If a man had $1,000 worth of that scrip he could get a share of stock ? 
— A. That was not the way of it. If a man had 100 shares of stock on 
which $30 per share had been paid, he could put in scrip enough to 
make that full paid. That was the actual fact in regard to that scrip. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. What transaction occurred which resulted in the issuing of scrip 
to individuals f— A. It was sold to the individual stockholders of the 
Credit Mobilier at 5 per cent, of its par value. 

Q. Who issued the scrip % — A. It was signed by the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company ; they got par for. it. 

Q. To what class of persons did they issue the scrip, and for what 
consideration ? — A. The Union Pacific Eailroad Company issued it to 
the Credit Mobilier, and for cash. 

Q. You mean that the Credit Mobilier gave the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company $100, or its equivalent, and they issued to them " scrip," 
which was a certificate that they were entitled to one share of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company stock? — A. No, sir; I mean to say that they 
gave them a certificate entitling them to $100 worth of stock. 

Q. That would be one share t— - A. No, sir; that is not the way it was 
given. 

Q. When the Union Pacific Eailroad Company issued the scrip, how 
do you distinguish $100 worth of stock from a share of stock I — A. I 
have explained that, or attempted to explain it, and I don't know that 
I can explain it any better. 

Q. Be kind enough to repeat the explanation. — A. The explanation 
was, that this scrip was not put into shares at all ; it simply represented 
so much money, and was convertible into stock. 

By Mr. ShellAbarger : 
Q. And it was converted at 5 per cent, of its par value ! — A. No, sir. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 381 

The Credit Mobilier purchased this scrip at par, and then they sold it 
to their own stockholders at 5 per cent, of its par value, in proportion to 
the amount they held of the stock. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. What do you mean by saying that they purchased it at par? — A. 
I mean to say just what the books show, that they purchased so much 
scrip of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company and paid for it at par. It 
was done before I had anything to do with the concern. 

Q. Do you mean that the stockholder purchased a certificate that he 
was entitled to one share of stock, and paid $100 for it? — A. The re- 
ceipt read this way : " Eeceived from the Credit Mobilier of America so 
many dollars, convertible into stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany on presentation.' 7 It read like that, or something of that kind. 

Q. Were those dollars which they certified they had received actually 
paid by the Credit Mobilier to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company in 
cash ? — A. These books show it. That was before I had anything to do 
with the concern. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. Who did have to do with the concern at that time ? — A. This man, 
Mr. Crane. 

By Mr. ShELLABAROER : 

Q. A man pays in $100 in money, or the Credit Mobilier pays in $100 
in money to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ■; thereupon they be- 
come entitled to a certificate for $100 of this scrip ; now, what I want to 
get at is, what amount of stock in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
did that scrip for $100 purchase? — A. It purchased $100 worth of 
stock. 

Q. How many shares ? — A. It might have been put into two shares, 
or it might have been put into three shares. 

Q. How many shares did it pay for in full ? — A. It never was put into 
full-paid stock. There never was any of it converted into full-paid stock. 

Q. It was used, then, to purchase stock upon which certain payments 
had theretofore been made ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What amount had theretofore been paid on it? — A. Some $10 a 
share, some $20, and some $30. 

Q. In purchasing that scrip, the scrip just covered, dollar for dollar, 
the amount that had in fact been paid in on the stock which it was ap- 
propriated to purchasing ? — A. In regard to these individual stockhold- 
ers, tbey were sold so many shares of stock; then they were sold scrip 
enough to make that stock full paid. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. That is, in paying up for stock which had been partially paid for, 
this scrip was received by the railroad company, you say, as equivalent 
to so much money ? — A. Yes, sir j for the company had received the 
money for it. 

Q. If a man had 10 shares of stock on which he had paid $100, which 
would be 10 per cent., leaving $900 to pay, then, if he had $900 worth 
of scrip and carried it to the railroad company, he got his certificate for 
ten shares of stock ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That is, the nominal amount which he got in stock was equivalent 
to the nominal amount which he paid in in scrip ? — A. Yes, sir; that 
scrip was convertible into an equal amount of stock. 



382 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You say they sold that to their stockholders ? — A. That is what 
the books show. 

Q. I am asking for your statement of it. — A. That is my statement 
from the books of the company 5 it was before I had anything to do 
with it. 

Q. State again the rate at which they sold that scrip to their stock- 
holders. — A. Five per cent, of its par value 5 that is what the books 
show.- 

Q. For five cents on the dollar, then, a man would get a dollar's worth 
of that scrip ? — A. The stockholders of the Credit Mobilier would. 

Q. They did not sell to anybody but the stockholders, did they ?— A. 
No, sir. 

Q. So the stockholder made 95 per cent, there, didn't he ? — A. No, 
sir; the stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company was not worth 
par. 

Q. What was it worth ? — A. Well, those who, like Oakes Ames, held 
on to it, I doubt whether they will get anything out of it. 

Q. What was it worth at that time ? — A. It had no value ; there was 
none in the market. 

Q. Then that was the way in which the Credit Mobilier got rid of that 
stock ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. A stockholder paid into the treasury of the Credit Mobilier $5, 
and took, in return for that $5, $100 worth of scrip ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How was it with the stock that the Credit Mobilier had ? — A 
They sold it at $71 a share, and the man who got it was to pay the $70 
himself. 

Q. Pay it to whom ? — A. To the Union Pacinc Railroad Company. 

Q. And they all paid that to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company? — 
A. They all paid it in scrip. 

Q. And that scrip they got from the Credit Mobilier at 5 cents on the 
dollar ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And they got stock at the same time, and paid for that stock with 
scrip for which they had paid five cents on the dollar? — A. They got 
30 per cent, stock. The real result of it was that these stockholders 
paid $4.50 a share for their stock. I would just as soon tell it to you 
plainly as any other way, because you can figure it out for yourself. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. How much of this stock was purchased ? — A. About $5,000,000 of 
that stock was sold at that time. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. At $4.50 a share?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What about the bonds ?— A. They purchased $1,037,000 of the 
bonds. 

Q. From whom? — A. From the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 

Q. How much did they pay for those bonds? — A. With the money 
they received from their stockholders on their increased subscriptions. 

Q. What did they do with the bonds? — A. They gave them to the men 
who took this increased stock. They says: Now, gentlemen, we have 
got to have some more money. The gentlemen did not want to furnish 
it. They says then : If you will come in andsubscriheto this stock, one 
share for every two you hold, we will give yon $1,000 bond tor each 
$1,000 of the stock you take. So that a man* paid $1,000 and received 
$1,000 of Credit Mobilier stock and a $1,000 first-mortgage Union Paci- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 383 

fie Eailroad bond ; but the Union Pacific Kailroad Company received 
the money for these bonds ; the Credit Mobilier paid them the money 
that they received from those stockholders. 

Q. That, then, is the process by which they got rid of the profit they 
had made ? — A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. You mean that the Credit Mobilier paid the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company at par for those bonds ? — A. No, sir ; at 85. 

Q. The bonds would bring 85 in the market then, would they not ? — 
A. No, sir ; they were not in the market $ that was before they were put 
in the market. 

Q. Well, 85 has been about their lowest figure since they were put on 
the market? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then the whole amount of this arrangement was that, on condition 
of subscribing one share for every two already held of Credit Mobilier 
stock, each Credit Mobilier stockholder purchased of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company a bond at 85 cents on the dollar 5 is it not so ? — A. 
That is the construction you seem to place upon it. 

Q. I am asking you about it. — A. I do not put any such construction 
upon it. Each stockholder received $1,000 in stock and $1,000 in a bond, 
for which he paid $1,000. 

Q. 1 thought you said he paid only $850 in the $1,000 ?— A. No, sir ; 
I said that the Credit Mobilier paid the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany at that rate. 

Q. What became of the balance of the $1,000 ?— A. The Credit Mo- 
bilier held that as its own money. 

Q. Then, if the Credit Mobilier stockholder got for his $1,000 a bond 
which was worth 85 cents on the dollar, his new share of stock cost him 
but 15 per cent, of its nominal value ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How much was the stock of the Credit Mobilier before that trans- 
action ? — A. Two and a half millions. 

Q. Was that two and a half millions paid in by the original subscrib- 
ers in cash — the whole of it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That was so, so far as you know ? — A. That is what the books 
show. 

Q. Then the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier paid into the concern, 
in cash, so far as you know, $2,500,000 — in value, not in cash — and 15 
per cent, of $1,250,000, and that is all, is it not?— A. That was the re- 
sult. That was the amount of money they received. They received 
$1,250,000, and they paid it out. The bonds had no market value. 

Q. Well, they were at any rate a first mortgage on the entire property 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad, including its right of way across the con- 
tinent, as far as it went ; and they were to be paid in full before the 
Government loan of the same amount got a cent? — A. Certainly. 

Q. And they had whatever intrinsic value that gave them ? — A. Cer- 
tainly. 

Q. They were the most valuable thing that was secured upon the 
property of that road, were they not ? — A. I should rather have had a 
Government bond. 

Q. But the Government bond was not secured on the property of that 
road to the person who held it. You mean to say that you would rather 
have the Government's claim to reimbursement? — A. No, sir; I should 
rather have the Government bond. 

Q. You understand, and you then understood, that these first-mortgage 
bonds were to be paid before the Government got its pay?— A. Certainly 



384 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. And were to be paid before the capital stock could have any value ? 
— A. Certainly ; but I also understood that these men had staked their 
money in this enterprise, and there was uncertainty as to whether it 
would ever be finished ; and if it was not finished, there was no telling 
what would be the result. 

Q. Do you know of a single man who received one of those bonds 
under that arrangement who sold it for less than 85 cents on the dollar 1 
— A. No, sir $ I do not know any one. 

Q. You never heard of any one ? — A. I don't know that I did. I 
would not have been likely to have heard of it ; I was a stranger to most 
of those men at that time. 

Q. So, so far as you know, there was no capital stock paid into the 
Credit Hobilier except the first $2,500,000, and the difference in value 
between the actual and the par value of those bonds to the amount of 
$1,250,000 more ? — A. No, sir ; I don't admit it ; they paid in the par 
value of both kinds of stock. 

By Mr. Alley : 
Q. State whether this privilege of taking this stock with the bond at- 
tached to it was regarded as such a valuable privilege that they were 
all willing to accept of it? — A. No, sir- there were several of them, heavy 
stockholders, that did not take it until some time along in the summer. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. How long after ? — A. Four or five months. 

By Mr. Alley : 
Q. Was there not a very 'large number, including myself, that re- 
garded it as so hazardous that they would not come in and take it : that 
they would rather lose what they had put in than go any further into 

it? — A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Did they lose what they had already put in, and refuse to go any 
further? — A. No, sir; but I say they preferred to do that. 

Q. But which did they do % — A. Well, they finally put it in, or pro- 
cured some one else to put it in; but they did not do it then, when the 
company wanted money. 

Q. Did not the company want money when they did put in ? — A. Not 
so badly. 

Q. Did the company want money when they did put it in % — A. No ; 
they had notified these parties that they would not take the money. 

Q. Did they take the money ? — A. They finally did. 

Q. Do I understand you to say that there were two parties, one who 
did not want to pay the money, but who, somehow or other, did pay it, 
and another who did not want to receive it, but who, somehow or other, 
did receive it ? — A. I understand that originally there were parties who 
did not want to pay, but finally, when they were notified that the com- 
pany did not want to receive it, they came forward and wanted to pay 
it, and then it was received. 

By the Chairman: 

Q. How much stock, and scrip convertible into stock, in all, was dis- 
posed of in the manner which you have described f — A. About five mil- 
lions ; that is, in these sales I mean. 

Q. You caji these transactions " sales V' — A. Well, there was other 
stock divided in the regular dividends. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 385 

Q. Was tliere ever a dividend made by the Credit Mobilier to its stock- 
holders, independent of what yon have 'now been talking about ? — A. 
There was a 6 per cent, dividend for 1868 and 1869, payable in stock at 
$30 a share ; full-paid stock. 

Q. How many shares of stock were disposed of in that way ? — A. 
Fourteen thousand nine hundred and sixty shares ; $1,496,000 capital 
stock, par value. 

Q. There was another dividend of 6 per cent.? — A. I have put the two 
together. 

Q. Since that time has the Credit Mobilier made any money from any 
source!- — A. No, sir ; it has not. 

Q. What are its present assets? — A. Its present assets are principally 
its claim against the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, $2,000,000 and 
over. It has also a few lands. 

Q. What lands has it? — A. It has some lands in Council Bluffs and 
some small pieces in Columbus, Nebraska; town-lots. 

Q. Where are those lands in Council Bluffs ? — A. Between the city 
and the river. 

Q. Is that the land in regard to which there has been a controversy 
about the location of a depot ? — A. That I don't know. 

Q. From whom did the Credit Mobilier get that land at Council 
Bluffs ? — A. Two different parties. One, I believe, was Lycurgus Jerdon, 
and the other I do not know ; it was before my time. 

Q. The lands lie there in a body, between the city and the river? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Is it your understanding that those lands have been held by the 
Credit Mobilier with reference to the future construction of a depot 
there, in the event of the road being brought across there, or the loca- 
tion of the depot on that side of the river? — A. I suppose the lands were 
bought as a speculation. 

Q. Looking to the location of the depot there ? — A. I would not say 
looking to the location of the Union Pacific Eailroad depot there, but 
looking to the location of a depot there; a general depot of some kind. 

Q. Do you know how much land is in that bodv? — A. I think there is 
about 1,000 acres ; I don't know. 

Q. Where do you say those lands of the Credit Mobilier are ? — A. Some 
of them are in Columbus ; I have never seen them, nor even seen the 
deed of them ; I don't know anything about them. 

Q. Have you stated all the assets of any kind that the Credit Mobilier 
now has? — A. It has some Union Pacific Eailroad stock, a small amount; 
2,012 shares of Union Pacific Eailroad stock. 

Q. Then, if I understand you, the present assets of the Credit Mo- 
bilier consist of this $2,000,000 note and -1 — A. I have not used the 

word u note " at all. 

Q. What do you call it? — A. It is a balance on the Hoxie contract, 
$2,000,000 and over. 

Q. There is a note out for $2,000,000 ? — A. There was a note given ; 
but that was only part of the amount. 

Q. You claim there is more than that? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And those lands at Council Bluffs, and the lots at Columbus, and 
the 2,000 shares of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company's stock — that is 
all that the Credit Mobilier has left ? — A. It may have something more. 
I cannot tell you without lookiug aud making a balance-sheet of the 
books. 

Q. Have you the books, so that you can make up such a balance- 
sheet ? — A. Yes, sir. 
25 c M 



386 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. How long would it take you to make up that balance-sheet ? — A. 
I cannot say how long; it would not take a great while, I suppose ; 
there may be some claims against individuals for small amounts. 

Q. The amount of those would be insignificant ? — A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. SHELLABARaER : 

Q. What is the whole amount of stock that has been issued by the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company, and which is now outstanding ?— A. 
It is something over $36,000,000 ; I am not in a position to state accu- 
rately. 

Q. You have given us an account now of something like $5,000,000, 
which was procured in a certain way, which you have described ; then 
$1,350,000, I think, in this last method, arising out of a dividend of 12 
per cent. Now, in brief, state how the residue of. the stock of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company was issued and paid for. — A. The stock, a 
large amount of it, was subscribed for by Mr. Crane, acting as secretary 
of the trustees, and paid for by him on account of the Oakes Ames con- 
tract. Another large amount was sold to John A. Eice, assistant treas- 
urer of the trustees, and paid for by him in money. He paid for the 
stock he got in money, dollar for dollar, par value. 

Q. He subscribed as trustee for whom % — A. He subscribed as assist- 
ant treasurer of these trustees ; that is my understanding of the matter; 
I could tell more about it by referring to the books. 

Q. I want a statement of each class of stock issued ; first, give the 
amount that was issued in payment for work done under the Oakes 
Ames contract. — A. That I cannot do ; Mr. Crane can give you that. 

Q. Can you give it approximately ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Then what amount was paid to Mr. Eice as trustee % — A. To show 
that I should have the Union Pacific Eailroad Company's books, or 
some other books that are not here ; I cannot state that; it was after I 
ceased to have charge of the company's matters. 

Q. When did you cease to have charge? — A. In October, 1870, I 
resigned my position as auditor of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 

Q. I find on the books that on October 7, 1869, John A. Eice, trustee, 
received 50,000 shares. That was during your administration % — A. It 
was nominally during my administration, but I was not in Boston all 
the time. I was living in New York — from July, 1869, to October, 1870. 
I went to Boston frequently, but still I was not there all the time. In 
October, 1870, I resigned everything and told them that I would cease 
to come to Boston any more. If I had the books of the trustees of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company, I could give you a full history of 
these things. 

Q. Then the whole amount of that stock was f — A. About 

$86,000,000, I think— a little over that, 

Q. You have described how the stock was issued. The result of it 
was that it was paid for in road-making ? — A. No, sir ; I want you dis- 
tinctly to understand that Mr. Bice's was not paid for in road making ; 
it was paid for in money. 

Q. That was after you ceased to be connected with the road % — A. 
Well, I was quite often over in Boston in a clerical capacity. I can tell 
you how he got the money, too. 

Q. How much of the stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
did Mr. Eice pay for in money? — A. That I cannot state — whether it 
was the whole of it or only a portion of it ; but I could tell by the books. 

Q. You have already stated that Eice paid for his stock in money ! — 
A. Not the whole of it. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 387 

Q; Can you now refer te the books and tell how much he did pay for 
in money ? — A. I cannot ; the books are not here. If they were, I could 
tell. 

Q. You have stated, as a reason why you said he paid in money, that 
you were in Boston and knew he paid in money ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then tell us how much, he paid in money I — A. That I cannot tell 
without the books. I should think he paid in money for three or five 
millions. 

Q. Dollar for dollar ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That is, he paid into the treasury of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company from three to five millions of dollars ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. At what time ? — A. He paid in at different times. 

Q. Describe how that money was paid in — by what persons ? — A. Mr. 
Rice sold the stock of the company, and sold bonds to the stockholders 
of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, for which he received money, 
and, as he received this money, he turned it over to the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company, and it was placed to his credit on account until 
there was some three or four million dollars due to him — money he had 
advanced. Then he makes a subscription to the stock, and takes this 
money that he has already paid in to pay for that stock j it was money 
that he had already paid in and that was owing to him. 

Q. Then I understand you to say that he took the stock of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company, furnished to him by that corporation, and 

sold that f — A. No ; I don't say that. He took some stock that he 

had undoubtedly received uuder the Oakes Ames contract, and then 
sold that stock with bonds that were received under the Oakes Ames 
contracts. He sold those bonds and the stock and got money, and 
that money was placed to his credit by the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany until it amounted to three or four millions, and then he took stock 
for that money. 

Q. What amount in money, bonds, and stock, added together, did he 
sell from which he realized this profit of three or four millions % — A. 
That I cannot state. 

Q. State as near as you can. — A. I can't tell anything about it. 

Q. You certainly know something about what the stock sold for at 
that time ? — A. Well, he might hare sold eight or ten millions of stock 
and bonds. 

Q. You were a long time an officer of the road, and you should have 
some knowledge of what the average price was that he received for the 
bonds and for the stock J ? — A. When the books come they will show. 

Q. But, if they should not come, you cannot give us any information 
on the subject ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. You cannot even approximate the price at which the stock and 
bonds were sold ! — A. No, sir ; it has escaped my memory now ; it is 
some years since it was done. 

Q. Did the stock sell for as much as 30 cents on the dollar J — A. It 
was not sold alone ; it and the bonds were sold together. 

Q. I want to get the price realized for each class of assets. — A. They 
sold them together. 

Q. If you are so familiar with the matter as to know that they were 
not sold separately, but were always sold together, you must know some- 
thing about what they brought; now tell us. — A. That I am not defin- 
ite about. 

Q. How, then, are you able to state definitely a negative — that they 
were never sold separately, but always together — and yet-unable to tell 
anything about what they brought, either separately or together ?— A. 



388 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Well, that is a question that I cannot answer. If the books were here 
I should be willing to show you. 

Q. What books are they which, if here, would show that ? — A. The 
books of the seven trustees. These books here are the books of the 
trustees up to a certain time. I want the books that show the transac- 
tions since that time. 

Q. What is that certain time at which the books here stop f— A. 
March, 1869, I think. 

Q. Then what we want are the books which show the transactions 
subsequent to that date? — A. Yes, sir; they are, first, a copy of these 
books, but they also contain subsequent transactions. 

Q. Where are those books and in whose custody! — A. In Mr. Oliver 
Ames's, I suppose. 

Q. He is in possession of the books of the seven trustees ? — A. I sup- 
pose he has. 

Q. What is the name of that class of books that would contain the 
facts you have been speaking of? — A. I should not know how to 
describe them in any other way than as the books of the trustees. 
They are the books that contain the transactions of the trustees after 
the company moved to Boston. 

Q. You have said also that part of these facts that we have been in- 
quiring about will be found in books of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company that are not here. What books are those? — A. They are the 
regular account-books of the company. I suppose they are the books 
in present use, but they may have others coming after those. The 
books here come down to March, 1869, and you want the books subse- 
quent to that. I presume they are in the office in Boston. 

Q. Who should be subpoenaed to bring those f — A. Mr. Eollins. 

Adjourned until January 29. 



Washington, D. C, January 29, 1873. 

Joseph B. Stewart recalled. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. In your former answers in this examination you stated to 
the committee that Mr. Durant and Mr. Halle tt, together, paid you a 
very large amount, to exceed $250,000 in bonds, and also that exceed- 
ing $250,000 in bonds had passed into your hands; that of that amount 
from $100,000 to $150,000 was in bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company, and that you received those bonds in the latter part of June, 
1864. Now, state to the committee, so far as you can recollect, the 
names of the persons to whom you delivered, or paid out, those bonds 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, or any part thereof, or the pro- 
ceeds thereof. — A. The question asked me assumes what is erroneous. 
It covers two quantities, of $250,000 of bonds, and assumes that I have 
received and paid out that quantity. I have not stated that. 

Question repeated. — A. The word " paid," in the sense used there, 
has no proper place. 

Q. That is the only criticism you make on that, is it? — A. Yes; 1 
stated that I received that money and those bonds as counsel, to adjust 
matters wherein I was acting for my clients, and in a fiduciary capacity, 
sometimes as negotiator and sometimes as umpire and arbitrator, and 
that I appropriated the money and bonds so received in discharge of 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 389 

that duty as counsel; and that it had no reference to, and was not by 
me applied to, any one connected with the Government in its legislative 
or executive capacity, and that the matters performed by me as counsel 
1 did not mean to state to this committee. 

Q. Were any of the bonds that yon have now referred to, the bonds of 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. I refer to the same bonds in 
reference to which I testified before. 

Q. You stated, I believe, in your former examination, that of that 
amount of bonds that went into your hands, from $100,000 to $150,000 
were the bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. — A. To the 
best of my recollection, something exceeding $100,000. 

Q. Now, I ask you to state to the committee, so far as you recollect, 
the names of the persons to whom you paid out those bonds of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company, or any part thereof, or the proceeds 
thereof. — A. Disclaiming, as I have before done, (and giving now my 
final answer on that subject,) that not one bond or dollar was paid to 
any member of the Government, I do not speak of ray dealings with my 
clients. 

Q. Do you refuse to state to whom you paid or delivered those bonds 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company of which you have spoken, or 
any part of them, or the proceeds of them % — A. I have repeatedly stated, 
and I now again say, that I will make no statement about the business 
of my clients. 

Q. Do you refuse to state to the committee to whom you delivered 
those bonds or what you did with them % — A. That is but changing the 
question again. 

Q. Answer my question. — A. I refuse to speak about the business of 
my clients. 

Q. Do you refuse to state to this committee to whom you delivered 
those bonds or any part of them ? — A. The persistence with which I 
am sought to be placed in a false position by this question I protest 
against. 

Q. It is an easy matter to state whether you refuse to answer the 
question. — A. I refuse to this committee and to this audience to speak 
of the business of my clients ; and I know how far the question is the 
business of my clients. 

Q. I will give you another opportunity. — A. You need not give me 
any opportunity to answer that question again. 

The Chairman. Do you refuse to answer it? 

The Witness. I have answered the question as I mean to answer it. 

The Chairman. I am putting a plain question to you, which you may 
answer or refuse to answer. 

The Witness. If you repeat your former question, it is answered. 

Mr. Hoar. I move that the witness be informed by the chairman 
that, in the opinion of the committee, a disclosure of the names of the 
persons to whom he delivered' money or bonds is not protected by the 
legal privilege existing between counsel and client. 

The motion was agreed to. 

The chairman informed the witness that the committee had had the 
matter under consideration, and had examined the question, and that it 
was the opinion of the committee that the witness had no right to refuse 
to answer the question on the ground of privileged communication or 
for any other reason. 

The Witness. Now, I will give my reasons to the committee, and I 
presume I have some rights here. In my examination heretofore 1 
stated the fact that the duties discharged by me as counsel, as trustee, 



390 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

as negotiator, and as umpire, involved a great many parties. Their 
confidence is my rale and my guide ; their rights are my rights here. 
I might convince Mr. Brown that he should have got $7,000 where he 
got but $3,000, and I might convince Mr. Jones that he should have 
got something else, and I would create dissatisfaction where satisfac- 
tion exists and distrust where confidence exists, while it would not aid 
your iuquiry, and while I and those who might be affected by it would 
be without any remedy which you could afford or would afford. Your 
investigation would necessarily arrive, ultimately, at that which I claim, 
as a lawyer and as a man, you have no right to inquire about, things 
which appertain to private rights. I think there are some rights which 
a citizen has, and which are properly to be respected everywhere, un- 
der the Constitution of this country and under its organic and statute 
laws. I have stated my reasons for refusing to answer your questions, 
and I wish them to go to the public, for I shall stand very firm where 
I am ; and perhaps I will have a right to be heard on this question in 
its further discussion. 

Mr. Hoar moved that the further examination of the witness be 
postponed for two hours. 

The Witness. I have a case on trial in New York which has been 
postponed for me until to-day, and I shall certainly go to New York to- 
day to try that case. 

The Chairman. You can go very readily by answering the question. 

The Witness. I consider I have answered the question, properly and 
legally. 

Q. (By the Chairman.) What kind of bonds did Mr. Hay receive at 
the time this negotiation was going on? — A. Mr. Hay, to the best of my 
judgment, received, and I believe only received, bonds of the same 
description as I did. I believe they were part of the bonds which I 
received from Mr. Durant, as I have before stated. Except through me. 
I do not think Mr. Hay (indeed, I can speak positively) had anything 
to do with the matter. 

Q. Mr. Hay was acting in concert with you? — A. That word "con- 
cert" I object to. Mr. Hay was acting under my directions. 

Q. Was he your agent in assisting you in managing this matter? — A, 
Mr. Hay did certain things which I requested him to do, at the instance 
and request of my clients. 

Q. What was it that you requested Mr. Hay to do? — A. I have stated 
that I requested him to draw or to bring some bonds from New York to 
Washington, to me. I gave him an order on Mr. Durant, also, for some 
money. 

Q. Hid Mr. Hay bring these bonds over from New York to Washing- 
ton ? — A. He did. 

Q. Did he bring over some money also ! — A. Not at that time. . It 
was before the time that he brought the bonds that he brought the 
money. 

Q. How much money did he bring f — A. Sixty thousand dollars. 

Q. What time was that? — A. I will not be precise as to the date, but 
it was current with the other transactions ; some time after the matter 
was adjusted and closed up. 

Q. What did you do with that money ? — A. I made the same dispo- 
sition of it that I did with the bonds. I paid it, or caused it to be paid, 
to those to whom it belonged. 

Q. Do you know from what source that money came? — A. I only 
know that it came from Mr. Durant. 

Q. Was Mr. Durant acting on behalf of the Union Pacific Railroad 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 391 

Company at that time ?— A. At that time, 1864-'65, Mr. Durant, to my 
certain knowledge, was carrying on the Union Pacific Railroad pretty 
much on his own resources. 

Q. He was the active managing man of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company at that time? — A. Yes; Mr. Durant was really the man at that 
time. Prom reasons which come to me professionally I know that to be 
the case, but I do not propose to testify about it. 

Q. To whom did you pay that $60,000 1 — A. I paid it, or caused it to 
be paid, to those of my clients and my cestui que trusts that were entitled 
to it ; and they were not members of Congress, or Senators, or Govern- 
ment officials. 

Q. Give their names to the committee. — A. I decline to give any 
names with reference to my transactions with my clients. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. When were these occurrences ?— A. In 1864 and 1865. 

Q. Who was president of the Union Pacific Railroad at that time ? — 
A. General Dix; but the road, at the time of which I am testifying, in 
1861, had no very active support outside of such as Mr. Durant and a 
few individuals associated with him brought to it. It was later on that 
gentlemen, whom I see now here, invested in it. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Did yon ever receive any moneys or bonds from Mr. Durant at 
any other time than as you have stated? — A. With the exception of one 
matter, as to which I wish to make a correction. I stated in my former 
examination that Mr. Huntington paid me $10,000. I find that he paid 
me but $2,000, and that Mr. Durant paid me the other $8,000. I wish 
to make that correction. 

Q. When was that ? — A. That was at the time of the close of the 
labor which was performed in 1861 and 1865. 

Q. What was that $10,000 paid for ? — A. It was paid to me to dis- 
charge some obligations contracted by Mr. Hallett, I think. I paid the 
money myself over to Mr. Hallett, and Mr. Durant afterward paid it to 
me. Seeing that round figure of $10,000 opposite Mr. Huntington's 
name in a memorandum which I accidentally came across some time 
ago, I supposed that I had received all the money from Mr. Huntington. 

Q. How long is it since you came across that memorandum? — A. 
About a year ago. I came across it among my professional papers and 
laid it away. 

Q. Where is that memorandum? — A. That memorandum is in my 
possession. 

Q. Will you produce it to the committee ?— A. I will not. 

Q. Is that memorandum in this city ? — A. That memorandum is in 
this city at this time. 

Q. Does that memorandum contain a statement in reference to all 
these transactions ? — A. It does not — nor the tithe. 

Q. To what extent does it go ; any further than as to this $10,000 ? — 
A. Xothing further ; and as to the correction of the $10,000 into $2,000. 

Q. You refuse to produce the memorandum ? — A. I do refuse to pro- 
duce any memorandum that has reference to business between me and 
my clients. 

Q. That was a memorandum which you made yourself, was it f — A. 
A memorandum which I made myself in conversation with my clients, 
and in perfecting the adjustment with my clients and cestui que trusts. 

Q. I understood you to say that in some portions ot these transac- 



392 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

tions you were acting as arbitrator or umpire between the parties ? — 
A. I did. 

Q. Do we understand you to claim that an arbitrator and umpire has 
a right to regard what transpires in his presence between parties who 
are controverting questions before him as a privileged communication ? — 
A. Since I was interrogated in the manner I was by this committee as 
to that I have made it a special study, and I am very well prepared to 
sustain my position by authorities, I will hold that to be the case under 
any circumstances, but in every case I was counsel .or had been counsel 
for one party or other ; and if the relation of counsel and client were 
absolved, it was simply to constitute me (they having sufficient confi- 
dence in me) an arbitrator or umpire to settle between them. That 
confidence has not yet been impaired, however it may be at the close of 
this investigation. 

Q. To what extent did these matters pass under review by you as 
umpire or arbitrator between the parties ?—A. In no instance exclusively 
so. It resulted in every instance from my relations as counsel, or in a 
fiduciary capacity to one party or the other. 

Q. So that you were counsel and umpire at the same time ? — A. I stated 
that I was always absolved specially by the consent of the party, but 
that my relation in every instance had its origin in my professional 
capacity. 

Q. But after they had absolved you from your responsibilities as 
counsel, and you came to be umpire alone, then, being no longer coun- 
sel, do you regard the communications that were matle to you by those 
parties between whom you were arbitrating as confidential? — A. No 
lawyer, at any time, has ever absolved his relations between him and 
his client, and no one who has self-respect will do so. 

Q. You do not mean to be understood as saying that, after the rela- 
tions of counsel and client have ceased, communications that are made 
to him are confidential? — A. That relation never ceases, so far as the 
matter that transpired is concerned, whatever it may be in some future 
transaction. 

The Chairman. Then once a man's lawyer, always his lawyer? 

The Witness. Not necessarily ; but in regard to the matter on hand 
he always is his lawyer, and his mouth is always shut in speaking of 
that business transaction. 

Q. Were any of those bonds paid out or delivered to the parties by 
Mr. Hay, or were they all delivered by you?— A. The thing was so im- 
mediately under my direction that any action of his would not be such 
as would impart to him the reasons therefor. 

Q. Was he cognizant at the time of the delivery of any of these 
bonds ? — A. I should think not. Certain it is that I aimed to so arrange 
and to so distinctly settle between all parties before the delivery was 
made that that act finished it. A release, discharge, and everything 
of that sort, was given on the spot, and has stood so for now nearly ten 
years, and I feel burdened at being interrogated about it here. 

Q. Are you simply apprehensive that your disclosure of these names 
would stir up strife between these clients of yours ? — A. I am perfectly 
certain that such would be the result. But my view of the relations 
existing between counsel and client would be sufficient reason for me, 
even if I did not apprehend that. I know that there are elements of 
dissatisfaction that could be very easily moved. 

Q. Did you deliver any of these bonds to newspaper correspondents ? — 
A. That is repeating the question which I have declined to answer; but 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 393 

for their credit, and from a sense of justice to those gentlemen, I will 
say that I did not. 

Q. Did you deliver any of them to newspaper publishers? — A. I de- 
cline to answer. 

Q. Were those newspaper men your clients % — A. Two of them were. 

Q. Where did they live % — A. That is immaterial to the purpose of 
this examination. 

Q. You do not consider where they live a confidential communication, 
do you f — A. I judge that it is not necessary to inquire. 

Q. Do they live in the city of Washington J — A. I decline to answer. 

Q. Did you ascertain where they lived from any communication they 
made to you, or did you know it prior to your engagement by them as 
counsel ! — A. I ascertained where they lived from having been their 
counsel and adviser for ten or twelve years. 

Q. Then the place of their residence was not a confidential communi- 
cation to you 1 ? — A. I choose for the purposes of this examination to 
regard it as such. I cannot see what this committee has to do with the 
names of those newspaper editors who were my clients. 

Mr. Shellabarg-er, (to witness.) You may not have observed care- 
fully the part of the resolution under which the committee is acting, 
which requires the committee to investigate the interests of the Govern- 
ment in the proper and legal disposition of the assets of the road, and 
in so far as that branch of our resolution is concerned it has no special 
relation to influences brought to bear on members of Congress. Now, 
it may not be amiss to state to you that one object of these inquiries is 
to ascertain and report to the House on the matter of the just and legal 
disposal of the assets affecting the solvency of the corporation ; and it 
is partly in that view that the committee desires, in obedience to the 
order of the House, to get information as to what was done with those 
assets. In that view I trust that you will see that the committee is not 
desiring anything else than faithfully to discharge its duties to the 
House. We therefore desire to find out what disposition has been made 
of assets, which it is the concern of the Government to know, whether 
or not they have been used according to law. 

The Witness. In answer to the suggestion, in the way of a question, 
I beg to state that I, as a citizen of the United States, know of no other 
rights than legal rights vested in this Government, and that by the 
laws of the land as they exist I am willing to abide and do obey. I. 
know of no rights that the Government has, in regard to this inquiry, 
beyond those provided by existing law. As to the Government itself, 
let Congress take proper care, legally and equitably, of every individual 
citizen according to the laws as written ; aud then the Government 
itself will already have been provided for to the utmost that it can de- 
mand, and to the greatest measure of its benefit. 

Mr. Shellabarger. In view of the statement which I have just 
made to you, as to what we deem the duties of the committee to the 
House, do you still decline to answer the questions which you have 
hitherto declined to answer? 

The Witness. The questions, and the only questions, which I refuse 
to answer are those which (I repeat) enter into my duties and my rights 
as an attorney as well as a citizen; and, in order to protect the rights 
and interests of those who have confided them to my care, (and which 
I shall do,) I will answer no question that tends to involve, or compli- 
cate, or imperil those rights and interests. 

Mr. Shellabarger. Then I understand you as still adhering to your 
refusals heretofore made i 



394 CEEDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

The Witness. I cannot make myself plainer than the language which 
I have already used has done. 



Washington, D. 0., January 29, 1873. 
Horace F. Clark sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Are you the president of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany ? — Answer. I am. 

Q. How long have you been occupying that position 1 — A. I was 
elected president at a meeting of the board of directors held in the city 
of Boston on the 6th of March, 1872. 

Q. Have you been in any way connected with this company prior to 
that time? — A. In no way; neither as stockholder nor as bondholder. 

Q. Have you been connected with the Credit Mobilier % — A. Never, 
in any way, directly or indirectly. 

Q. You made a report to the Secretary of the Interior, as president 
of the company, on the 12th of September, 1872, 1 believe ! — A. You will 
permit me to say, in reference to that report, that the office of the com- 
pany is at Boston. I reside in New York. The report is prepared in 
Boston, where the accounts of the company are kept, and where are its 
papers. Believing it to be correct, or substantially so, I made the 
formal affidavit to its truth, such, as presidents of railroad companies 
make. We cannot know the entire accuracy of all the facts stated in 
these reports unless we verify them by examination. 

Q. I referred to the report in this connection, with a view of asking 
you some questions with regard to some matters involved incidentally 
in this investigation. I see it stated in the report that the entire cost 
of the road to the 30fcli of June, 1872, unadjusted balances with the con- 
tractors not included, is, including fixtures, $111,258,535.97. — A. You 
will permit me to say that I know nothing of the truth, of that state- 
ment, except that it is a book-balance. 

Q. Can you inform the committee on what books that balance will be 
found ? — A. The books are in the city of Boston. I cannot tell you 
what book. I made an inquiry as to the quarter from which those fig- 
ures were obtained, and was told that they were obtained from the 
books. You will recollect that I informed you that I had no connection 
of any description with the road prior to March, last, and you may not 
be aware that it is the usage in railroad companies for incoming presi- 
dents to take the book-balances from their predecessors. That report 
was prepared in Boston. I swore to it. 

Q. Have you any knowledge of the cost of this road, other than this 
balance, which you say is on the books of the company % — A. I have no 
knowledge whatever of the cost of the road, and no knowledge whether 
the statement of cost in the books is correct or not. All that I know 
about the cost of the road is what I gather from the current history of 
the day, having been familiar with railroads for several years. I cannot 
verify the accuracy of the statement. 

Q. Do you know what is embraced in this item that I have given 
you % — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know any of the items that go to make up this amount ; 
for example, the capital stock ! — A. This must embrace the $27,000,000 
of first-mortgage bonds, the Government loan of $27,000,000, the land- 
grant bonds of $10,000,000, the income bonds of $10,000,000, and the stock 
of $36,000,000 and a fraction. It may be that the Omaha bridge bonds 
are in that statement. That bridge cost about $2,500,000, and I rather 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 6\)b 

think that the bonds were added to the debt. That would make about 
$114,000,000. The company owns some $800,000 or $900,000 of the in- 
come bonds, which are hypothecated as security for floating debt. The 
entire cost of a railroad, in railroad parlance, is the funded debt, the 
floating debt, and the stock. That is the entire cost to the stockholders 
of the company, but I do not think that it means the actual cost. 

Q. In making up the cost of the road, do you make it up from an ag- 
gregate of the securities that have been issued, or for which the road is 
liable, and the stock? — A. This cost account has been kept through a 
course of years, and probably it embraces all the bonded debt and the 
stock. Whether the present floating debt has been charged up, I do not 
know. 

Q. What is the floating debt ? — A. The floating debt is, in round num- 
bers, $2,000,000 ; but you will recollect that that floating debt is secured 
by collaterals, the assets of the company. 

Q. What is the present indebtedness of the Uuion Pacific Railroad 
Company ? — A. The present indebtedness of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company consists of twenty-seven millions or thereabouts of first-mort- 
gage bonds, twenty-seven millions or thereabouts of a debt due to the 
Government, and payable, as we insist, at the expiration of thirty years, 
ten millions or thereabouts of land-grant bonds, of which a portion has 
been canceled by being paid in by purchasers of the lands, ten millions 
of income bonds, due in 1875, and, in addition to those funded debts, 
there is a floating debt of about two millions, carried from hand to hand, 
and I think about two and a half million of sterling bonds, issued to 
build the Omaha bridge. 

Q. There are also out some certificates for bonds'? — A. I do not know 
what that means. 

Q. I see such an item in your report. — A. I do not know what it is. 

Q. The floating debt, you say, is about two millions ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Do you embrace in that two millions any arrearages of interest 
due to the Government ? — A. No, sir. We have paid toward the inter- 
est on that debt one-half of the amount due for transportation for the 
Government, which is all that was required to be paid under the law of 
18G4. We do not count the other half as a floating debt, but it is an 
accumulating debt. I do not embrace that in the floating debt. 

Q. The floating debt, then, independent of any arrearages of interest, 
is aboat two millions? — A. It may have varied since that report, which 
is for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1872. It varies somewhat, of 
course, from time to time. 1 cannot say whether the floating debt is 
larger to-day than it was on the 30th of June last. 

Q. What is the character of that floating debt? — A. It is in notes 
held, I think wholly, by the present directors in different amounts. 

Q. What amount of those notes is past due? — A. I think none. I 
think the company has never been dishonored. There is a note in exist- 
ence for two million dollars, which I have never regarded as a debt, and 
which was never placed on the list of bills payable as exhibited to me. 
I do not refer to that as a part of the floating debt. 

Q. That is a matter to be hereafter adjusted or controverted? — A. A 
list of bills payable has been exhibited to me frequently from time to 
time, and that note was never placed on it. I heard incidentally of the 
existence of such a note, and I made such inquiries as satisfied me that 
it was not an obligation of the company, and that it was in the hands 
of a director of the company, who informed me himself that he held it 
in trust for the company, and that it was originally executed as a 
security or indemnifier of certain gentlemen who signed bonds in some 



396 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

litigation in Pennsylvania involving the interests of the company; that 
the conditions on which the note was given had been discharged and 
the. liability released. I feel satisfied, therefore, that it should be omitted 
from the statement of the bills payable. I think that that note must 
be past due. It was given many years ago. It was an unstamped note, 
but I have been informed by somebody that an indorsement was put 
upon the note authorizing somebody to put stamps on it. Whether that 
was done I do not know. I have never seen the note. There never has 
been any note of the Union Pacific Railroad Company dishonored that 
I have heard of. 

Q. State, as nearly as you can, the gross and net earnings of the road 
during the past year. — A. The accounts for the year are not closed. The 
latest account that I have is for the month of November. The returns 
of the traffic cannot be got for a month, so that the results of the entire 
year are not ascertainable now. It will be nearly a month before we shall 
have the accounts up to the 1st of January. I cannot state but approxi- 
mately the general result. 

Q. Give us, as nearly as you can, the net earnings of the road.— A. You 
will bear in mind that I became connected with the road only in March 
last; all ray knowledge of the transactions of the year prior to that time 
is, of course, from its books and records. 

Q. Have you any circulars or memoranda of any sort that show what 
the earnings have been in the past? — A. I have. (Exhibiting a circular 
to the committee.) Before you leave the subject of the floating debt I 
should like to explain it. That floating debt, to the extent of a million 
and a half and upward, resulted, first, from the diminution of revenue 
during the snow blockade during last winter — a diminution of about a 
million dollars — and from the borrowing of between five and six hundred 
thousand dollars from the directors, which was expended by the company 
with a view to prevent a recurrence of these snow blockades. The rest of 
it is in the ordinary course of business. Here is a detailed statement of 
the earnings and expenses from July 1, 187"J, to November 31, 1872, issued 
from the auditor's office. I have received a comparative statement of the 
earnings and expenses for November, 1872, as compared with November, 
1871. It shows that the ratio of expenses in November, 1872, was 39^0 
per cent., while in 1871 it was 40 t 2 ¥ 5 q per cent. There was an increase in 
gross earnings of $207,585, an increase in operating expenses of $77,000, 
and an increase in net earnings of $130,236.13. 

Q. I have only attracted your attention to these questions for the pur- 
pose of asking you what would be the effect on the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company if the support of those persons who are now and have been 
lending it money were withdrawn, and if the Government should exact 
the payment of the interest. — A. The result would be most disastrous to 
the bondholders and stockholders. 

Q. What would be the effect upon the solvency of the company'? — A. 
The company would not be solvent ; that is, it would not be able imme- 
diately to pay its debts. 

Q. Suppose the Government should insist on the payment of all the 
interest, as is contemplated by the recent action of Congress, what would 
be the result to the company? — A. 1 do not read that legislation as you 
do; the action of the House leaves the law as it stood in 1871, requiring 
the transportation money to be retained by the Government on account 
of interest, but I do not understand that it exacts that is claimed as 
arrearages. 

Q. Suppose the Government should insist upon deducting all the 



CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 397 

charges for transportation, and should also require the arrearages of in- 
terest to be paid, what would be the effect ? — A. The company could 
not stand it. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Suppose the Government were to apply the entire sum due for its 
freights and fares to the payment of interest, (to say nothing about arrear- 
ages,) what would be the effect upon the company? — A. That would 
depend upon circumstances ; if the Government took that ground, and 
withheld the money, and if there should be a snow blockade, I think 
that the result would be disastrous; last winter there was no agitation 
on this question, and, therefore, there w T as no very serious loss of that 
sort; but the elements were against the road last winter, and the com- 
pany was deprived of a million of revenue; up to this time this year, 
we have not been seriously impeded by snow. I think that, with the 
Government against us and the elements against us, we would be gone ; 
the two have alternated hitherto in their raids. 

Q. Suppose that the snow should be withheld, and that the Govern- 
ment should insist upon what has been claimed by Secretary Boutwell 
heretofore, could you get through then ? — A. In dealing w 7 ith the future, 
in regard to freight matters and mail matters, you are dealing with 
unknown quantities. 

Q. I am supposing that Providence is in your favor and the Govern- 
ment against you.— A. It is an inauspicious time to make a raid. 
I will tell you why. This is the year when we have got to begin to 
make large renewals of iron. Last winter was rather an easy winter on 
the road, because the road was covered with snow, and did not carry 
any traffic for upward of two months, and it came out in the spring in 
a very good condition— in a better physical condition than if it had 
been free from snow. This winter the traffic has been uninterrupted. 
There has not been as much snow on the Union Pacific Railroad as upon 
any hundred miles of the Lake Shore Railroad. Now, we have got to 
renew the iron, and may have, perhaps, to spend another half million 
dollars for further precautions against snow blockades. If the Govern- 
ment, under these circumstances, were to withhold all the pay for trans- 
portation, I think the result would be very disastrous. 

Q. What is the weight, per yard, of the iron on the Union Pacific 
Railroad? — A. I think fifty-six pounds generally. 

Q. Was not the first one hundred miles laid with forty-eight-pound 
rail? — A. I do not know. I can ascertain by referring to some docu- 
ments that I have. I thought it was a fifty- six-pound rail, but I am 
shaken by your question. I was not aware that there had not been a 
full compliance with all the provisions of the act. At all events, the 
Government accepted the road as coming up to the qualifications of a 
first-class road. 

Q. Has the company at any time made any provisions, by way of 
sinking-fund or otherwise, for the renewal of the iron on the road ? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. Have any funds been set apart for the purpose of renewing the 
iron? — A. No, sir; and I do not know that that is usual. The theory 
on which a first-class railroad is run is that it shall be kept in repair. 
Renewals are continually going on. But if you take a new road, the 
first heavy renewals of iron take place after a few years. The Union 
Pacific Railroad is admitted by railroad men to be in as good a condi- 
tion as any railroad of the same class. 



398 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

By Mr. SwANN : 
Q. What amount of iron would bo required from year to year to re- 
new the road f — A. I cannot answer that question, because it mainly 
depends upon its actual condition. When a rail is weakened, we take it 
out. We have endeavored to save the track. We run our passenger 
trains at a moderate rate of speed. We run our freight- trains at a slow 
rate of speed. We have saved in that particular by positive instruc- 
tions as to the rate of speed. 

Q. Is it not customary among railroads to put aside a sinking-fund 
for the repair of rails from year to year? — A. No, sir. I am in a good 
many railroads, and I do not recollect any one where it has been done. 
We have had to create floating debts on some of these roads in chang- 
ing the iron to steel rails, as we found that, with heavy traffic, iron would 
not answer the purpose at all. We have contracted a floating debt for 
the purpose of procuring steel rails, but I am in no railroad where there 
has been a fund set apart for the renewal of the rail. 

Q. What is your estimate of the life of the rail on your road under 
the tonnage you are carrying ? — A. You, perhaps, are familiar enough 
with the subject to know that it depends very much upon the quality of 
the iron. If you go to the New York and New Haven road, you will find 
iron that is down seventeen years, and that is still better than iron that 
has been laid within a few years. It depends upon the quality of the 
iron. Take the best Pennsylvania iron, and put it on the Lake Shore 
road under its heavy traffic, and in one year it has got to come up. I 
should think that, under our traffic, the iron will last eight or ten years, 
perhaps longer. 

Mr. Swann. I ask that question under the presumption that you pro- 
cure the best iron for laying and relaying the road. 

The Witness. You are aware that we are restricted by the charter to 
American iron. Whether we are restricted to American iron in the re- 
newing of the rail, I do not know. I think we are restricted to the use 
of American iron, and I suppose that if American iron is all poor we are 
to have poor iron. 

Q. What proportion of that road have you relaid with new iron since 
it has been in .operation, putting in these casual repairs from time to 
time ? — A. An account is kept of it, and I can furnish you with an exact 
statement. The road is in as good a condition, if not better than it was 
a year ago. I referred to the iron question as illustrating what we have 
regarded as the injustice of withholding the money due for Government 
transportation at this time. We thought it was an inauspicious moment 
to do so. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. How much is it anticipated or calculated that it will be necessary 
to expend next year on account of relaying the track ? — A. I should say 
over half a million dollars. My impression is that in this spring the 
road w r ill not come out in as good a condition as last spring, for the rea- 
son that I have stated. In the course of last year I think we were 
blockaded over two months. Up to Saturday last we have had no Ob- 
structions to complain of. 

By Mr. Swann : 
Q. That amount will have to be deducted from the net profits t — A. 
No, sir ; from the gross receipts. There may be ho net profits. We have 
got to keep the track in order so as to do the business. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 399 

Mr. Swann. But, of course, it would reduce the net profits to that 
extent ? 

The Witness. There might to be no net profits. I think there were 
no net receipts this last year, counting the million kept from the road 
by the snow-blockade, and the expenditures made with a view to pre- 
vent a recurrence. There came to us from Europe, and from all parts 
of this country, a demand that we should take some precaution to 
prevent a snow-blockade. We cannot control the snow-storms, and 
all that we could do was to raise the track in the cuts and build snow- 
sheds and fences, so that we could keep the trains running ; and we 
have not been obstructed materially this year. But it has cost us a 
large sum of money, and we shall have to spend another half million 
dollars should the experience of this winter show any particular places 
where it is needed. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. What other railroads have you been engaged in the management 
of u ? — A. I have not had the practical management of any road. I am 
president of the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern Bailroad and its 
branches, and I am director in several of the eastern roads. 

Q. Have you been familiar with the financial as well as the operative 
management of railroads, either from your personal employment or your 
observations for many years ? — A. I have considerably. 

Q. You have been in the habit of studying and considering the causes 
which make a road successful and strong, or the reverse. % — A. I think 
I have. I have given attention to those questions. 

Q. You have, of course, given attention and reflection to the prospect 
of an increase and development of business along that Union Pacific 
Bailroad ? — A. I have. 

Q. Suppose the Union Pacific Bailroad, just as it is, with its debts, 
with its obligations, and with its doubts as to its obligations to the 
Government in respect to interest, (taking that as a question of doubt,) 
were to have now put into its coffers a capital stock of thirty million 
dollars — that is, if the money which the law requires to be paid in cash 
for the stock should now be paid in cash to that amount — what, in your 
judgment, would be the value of that stock in the future? — A. I have 
given attention to this scheme of the Pacific Baiiroads since about 
1857, when my attention was first called to them. I paid considerable 
attention to them in the Thirty-fifth and Thirty-sixth Congresses, when 
there was an agitation for the passage of the law. I thought that, if 
built and completed as first-class roads, to run them would ruin any set 
of men j and my opinion never changed until the discovery of coal. I 
think now that thirty millions of dollars would very soon be lost but for 
the discoveries of coal that were made, I think, subsequent to the. con- 
struction of the road. I think, taking things as they are, the discovery 
of coal, and the settlements in Colorado, Utah, and Montana, that it 
may become a very prosperous road. 

Q. What do you think would be likely to be the nature and character 
of -the investment and of the institution which would be in that way 
built up ? 

The Witness. I do not understand your question. I do not know 
what you mean by purchasing thirty millions of stock. I supposed that 
the case you put was that of this corporation having thirty millions in 
its treasury. 

Mr. Hoar. Yes, sir ; that is the case I put. 



400 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

The Witness. It would be worth having, with thirty millions in its 
treasury. 

Mr. Hoar. I suppose you understand the question ? 

The Witness. I think I do ; I mean that it would then be a good 
thing, but it would not be the best thing in the world even then. 

Mr. Hoar. I ask whether it would be likely to be a valuable prop- 
erty? 

The Witness. I think it would. 

Q. Do you think it would be likely to pay within a reasonable time 
good dividends on that investment so made 1 ? — A. That would depend 
upon its relations to the Government. If the Government bore un- 
friendly relations to the company, I should not care much about it then. 

Q. Taking the thing as it is, and assuming justice on the. part of the 
Government? — A. And the continuance of friendly relations, because 
my experience in railroads satisfies me that the unfriendly relations of 
auy State government, or of the Federal Government, to a corporation 
existing under State or Federal laws, would be fatal to its prosperity. 

Mr. Hoar. I assume in my question obedience to the obligations of 
justice and law, on the part of the company, and doing justice to the 
company on the part of the Government. 

The Witness. I am not sure that I have got your meaning. If you 
mean to say that, if we had a surplus of thirty millions in the treasury, 
with our bonded debt, with our lands, with our traffic, and with the 
prospect of increased traffic 

Mr. Hoar. Suppose the persons who contracted for the capital stock, 
and who paid for it as they did, were now called upon and compelled to 
pay in cash to the amount of the capital stock, what then would be the 
value of the property in the hands of the company, in your opinion ! 

The Witness. Excuse me for saying that your question assumes a 
state of facts of which I am not informed. 

Mr. Hoar. I will put the question again. I ask you, if there were 
now to be paid in by the holders of the capital stock of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company $30,000,000 in cash into the treasury of the 
company, what would be in your judgment the effect upon the solvency 
of the company, and what returns in the future do you think would be 
likely to be received from the investment ? 

The Witness. You must permit me to ask you as to your meaning. 
Suppose this $30,000,000 should be paid in, you do not mean that new 
stock should be issued for it, or that the debt should be increased ? 

Mr. Hoar. I mean that it should be paid in as an obligation on the 
existing capital. 

The Witness. You mean that if there was a responsible subscription 
to that amount by an outside party ? 

Mr. Hoar. Suppose the existing stockholders of this company, the 
men who own the stock to-day, were to pay in, as something due on 
their stock, the amount of $30,000,000 of the capital, $100 a share, so 
that the existing capital would remain just as it is now, and the com- 
pany would have the $30,000,000 in the treasury, what, in your judg- 
ment, would be the effect on the strength of the company, and wiiat 
would be the likelihood of the stockholders receiving a remunerative 
profit on their investment ? 

The Witness. The state of the case which you put is the case of the 
road with $30,000,000 in its treasury. I should think that the road 
would be unquestionably prosperous. 

Mr. Hoar. What do you think would be the likelihood of its being 



CREDIT M0BILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 401 

able to make remunerative returns hereafter to the Dersons who so paid 
in that $30,000,000 ? 

The Witness. With friendly relations with the Government, I think 
it would unquestionably make returns. 

Mr. Hoar. How remunerative ? 

The Witness. You are dealing in unknown quantities, and the future 
of railroads is all uncertainty. 

Mr. Hoar. Do you not think that, with the resources which the ques- 
tion I have put supposes, there would be such a vast development of 
business between the Atlantic and Pacific as would make the returns 
on such an investment highly remunerative. 

The Witness. I think it would make remunerative returns. I do 
not understand exactly what you mean by highly remunerative. A rail- 
road to make returns that are remunerative must be able to maintain 
itself in a good condition and pay 8 per cent, to its stockholders. That 
I should call a remunerative road. I should want more than that for 
a highly remunerative road. I should not look for that in a great many 
years from the Union Pacific Railroad. 

Q. Xot with those resources f — A. No, sir; I think there is no traffic 
that requires any very large expenditure, except for the maintenance of 
the track. It is a tolerably well completed road. Your thirty million 
dollars I do not think would add much to the earnings. It would give 
solvency and strength. But I think that if it had thirty million in its 
treasury now the bulk of it should be at once appropriated to the pay- 
ment of its debts. That is what I should advise. 

Q. It would remove the embarrassments occasioned by its present in- 
debtedness and probable insolvency? — A. I think there is no man con- 
nected with railroads that does not know that there is danger in debts. 

Mr. Hoar. The object of my questiou, I will explain to you, is to 
ascertain, if I can, what would have been likely to be its history sup- 
posing that the capital stock had been actually and in good faith paid 
in in cash instead of its having been subscscribed under contracts by 
which in reality, as some witnesses say, the company got, instead of 100 
per cent, in cash, 30 per cent, in road-building for every share of its 
capital stock. The object of my question is to learn of the present 
president of the road what, in his judgment, would have been likelj 7- to 
have been its condition and the value of the property to the men who 
built it if that had not been done. 

The Witness. It is entirely conjectural. I am hopeful as to the future 
growth and settlement of the country. I think that, in respect of this 
road, it is as well established as many other roads, and that there will be 
a large increase of its traffic I do not think that it needs any very im- 
mense expenditure on it, any very serious outlay. If the company had 
that money and did not owe a debt, I think it might divide a good deal 
of it among the stockholders. 

Q. Suppose the road was obliged to rely upon its own credit and 
resources, without the individual aid of anybody, could it, in your judg- 
ment, meet its obligations in the course of business for the next twelve 
months ! — A. I think not. 

Q. Suppose the Government claim, as you understand it, were to be 
adjuged to be well founded, under the acts of 1802 and 1864, would the 
company, in your judgment, meet its obligations in the course of busi- 
ness for the next twelve months? — A. An intelligent body of directors 
interested in the property would meet the event and would make 
efforts to meet the debt. There is no road in the country that could earn 
26 cm 



402 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

in a year net, so much as the Government debt against the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company. 

Q. Do you think that, without the aid of outside credit, the company 
could, from any quarter, raise the funds to meet its obligations ? 

The Witness. Do you mean without borrowing? 

Mr. Hoar,. No ; I mean to let the company be thrown on its own 
credit, without the aid of outside credit in addition to its own. 

The Witness. I do not exactly understand the character of your 
question. The company is borrowing money now, but it is not borrowing 
on its own credit. Take the money which I lend to the company. It is 
not loaned on the credit of the company, but on its securities, on its 
bonds. If it had no available collaterals on which to borrow the money 
it would have to fund the debt. 

Q. Have there not been any transactions in the management of that 
road, such as are usually styled in business "accommodation transac- 
tions," in which the directors or persons interested in its management 
make advances either of money or credit for the use of the company ? — 
A. Yes, sir ; since my administration, there has been. 

Q. You understand the difference between accommodation transac- 
tions and the ordinary borrowing of money in the course of business ? — 
A. No, sir ; in large railroad transactions I do not. You may lend a 
man ten or twenty thousand dollars without security, but when you 
come to millions the dealing is on securities. 

Q. You know of no loans to the company except on good securities % — 
A. I know of no loans made except on conditions regarded by the lender 
as good security. The security may not be always on hand, but the 
lender relies on the good faith of the company. 

Q. Do you think that if the directors and officers of the road were to 
decline to loan the company any further means, it could meet its obliga- 
tions in the coarse of business for the next twelve months % — A. I think 
not. But you must permit me to illustrate my meaning. Money has 
been loaned by the directors. I have the company's paper maturing, 
for instance, between the first and fourth of February, for between fifty 
and seventy-five thousand dollars. I have got to renew iit. If I did 
not renew it, and if nobody else made a new loan to supply its place, 
the company could not pay. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. I wish to know whether those persons who have been loaning 
money to the company, and who are connected with the company, have 
secured themselves by collaterals'? — A. They have, certainly. These 
are not loans without security. I think it very likely that some of the 
gentlemen may have made loans where they have not got the securities 
in hand. But they have the good faith of honorable men that the secu- 
rity will be placed in their hands. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Are you aware that when that road was constructed the capital 
stock was not paid in in cash, but that the construction of the road was 
received substantially as an equivalent for that capital ? — A. I am tol- 
erably well informed of its history. 

Mr. Hoar. I asked you if you know that particular fact ! 

The Witness. I do not think you state the facts with entire accu- 
racy. 

Mr. Hoar. Do you know whether what 1 asked in my question is oi 
is not a fact f 



CREDIT M0BILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 403 

The Witness. It impressed me as inaccurate. If you will state it 
again, I will answer it. 

Q. Do you know whether the capital stock instead of being paid in in 
cash was in substance paid for by building the road by the persons to 
whom the capital stock was issued ? — A. I have been informed that that 
was the case to some extent ; not wholly. 

Q. Have you not been informed that it was the case to the extent of 
a very large majority of the whole capital ? — A. I have. 

Q. Are you not also aware that, instead of estimating the stock of the 
company as worth 100 cents to the dollar, it was estimated by both par- 
ties to the transaction (the Union Pacific Eailroad Company on the one 
side and the contractors on the other) as worth but 30 cents on the dol- 
lar, and that the price of the work was graduated accordingly ? — A. I 
have been informed of that state of things. Suppose that thirty-six 
millions had been paid in in honest money, and then had been disbursed 
in construction, the difference between the condition of the corporation, 
as it is now and as it would be then, would be the difference in the mode 
of expenditure. If there was greater extravagance and profligacy in the 
expenditure of the thirty millions of cash, the road would have cost 
more than it did. 

Q. Do you not believe that if the company had had in its treasury 
that thirty-six millions of capital stock in honest money, it would have 
been able to obtain contracts for building the road cheaper than it 
actually did, by an amount of at least twelve million dollars % — A. You 
are asking my belief. I give it to you. Taking things as they are, 
taking men as you find them, I think it would have been exceedingly 
disastrous to have had that money in the treasury ; that you would 
not have had the road built, and that the money would have been 
squandered 'or stolen. 

Q. I ask you whether, if the company had had thirty-six millions in 
its treasury in honest money, you do not believe that it would have ob- 
tained contracts for the construction of its road cheaper than it did by 
at least twelve million dollars % — A. I think not. 

Q. Do you not think it could have got its construction considerably 
cheaper ? 

The Witness. You mean, of course, assuming an honest administra- 
tion? 

Mr. Hoar. Yes. 

The Witness. That is a different case. 

Mr. Hoar. Do you mean to imply by your answer that you think that 
the administration of this company at that time was a dishonest one? 

The Witness. No, sir ; I do not. I only mean to say that, taking into 
consideration the high prices of the times, the reckless extravagance of 
the construction, the fact that it was a road built in the first place with- 
out a route, no pass then discovered, (or, at least, the Southwest Pass 
being supposed the one to be followed,) without timber, without fuel, 
without water, with gold, I think, at 160, and with iron at $160 a ton, the 
work hurried up with night and day gangs, working with great rapidity, 
in order to get the advances from the Government ; with half the force 
engaged in keeping Indians off from the other half that was at work ; 
if there had been thirty millions at that time in the treasury, I think 
the money would have been very soon squandered, and I do not believe 
that there would have been a road. 

Q. Do you not think that, with an honest and efficient administration 
of the company, if it had had thirty-six millions of cash in its treasury, it 
could have obtained a contract for building the road for at least twelve 



404 CREDIT MOB1LIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

million dollars less tban it actually cost? — A. I do not think that 
economy and frugality could be expected on such conditions as then 
existed. I do not think that economy was possible. I think that the 
course of construction was more extravagant than anything I ever 
heard of — the haste with which the work was done — the outside expen- 
ditures which had to be made to render it possible to do it all. 

Q. What class of expenditures do you mean ? — A. In the first place, 
there was no road built across Iowa. They had to build a road from Chi- 
cago west. And then think of having to pay enormous prices for trans- 
porting all the materials up the Missouri" Biver from Saint Louis to 
Omaha. 

Q. What do you mean in speaking of the wastefulness and extrava- 
gance in constructing the road ? Do you mean to imply an expenditure 
that was in fact unnecessary, or do you mean to imply an expenditure 
which you thiuk the then existing condition of things rendered neces- 
sary 1 — A. I would not have spent any money in that way. I would not 
have put a dollar in the enterprise, because it occurred to me that it 
was a wild waste of money to think of -doing such a thing. These men, 
however, determined to do it. There was a spirit of adventure about it, 
of loyalty and of courage, such as I have never known in the history of 
railroad enterprises. The conditions were utterly inconsistent with 
anything like prudence or economy, in my judgment; and I am of 
opinion, (accept it for what it is worth,) that every dollar would have 
been wasted except for the accidental circumstance of the discovery 
of coal. Permit me to state one other fact : that, in respect of a road 
where the problem was whether it could get fuel at all, it gets its fuel 
to-day as cheap as any railroad on the continent. At the time that 
road commenced operations they were paying $19 or $20 a cord for 
wood, the substance of which was not equivalent to more than one- 
third or one-fourth of a ton of coal. 

Q. When was that coal discovered? — A. I cannot tell you; but I think 
it was while the road was in course of construction. I think that the 
investment would have been a total loss, and that the road could under 
no circumstances earn its running expenses but for that circumstance. 

Q. You think, as I understand you, that if this thirty-six millions of 
capital had been paid in in cash it would have been of no use, because 
the circumstances of the time would have necessarily resulted in an ex- 
travagant and wasteful expenditure of that money h Would not that 
extravagant and wasteful expenditure of money have been prevented 
by a prudent and conscientious board of directors, or do you think that it 
would have been impossible to get such a board at that time"? — A. Per- 
mit me to say that your question assumes that the money could have 
been paid in ; I do not believe it. You are asking me to assume a state 
of facts which I know did not exist. You could not have got the money. 
But, assuming that you did get it, admitting that those Boston gentle- 
men paid up that thirty-six millions, (which I do not believe they would,) 
the road would have had to be built by days' work. You could have 
got no contractor to take a contract when he had to freight his mate- 
rial at such vast expense, and where he had to have a standing army 
to protect his laborers from Indians. I do not think that any prudent 
responsible contractor would have been found to take the contract at 
any price. 

Q. Do you not think that at the time Oakes Ames took his contract 
for six hundred and sixty-seven miles of this road, which he agreed to 
take his pay for in Government bonds and in first-mortgage bonds and 
in stock of the company, if those directors had had the cash in the 



CREDIT M0BILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 405 

treasury to pay for the entire construction of the six hundred and sixty- 
seven miles as Mr. Ames built it, they could have found responsible 
contractors in the market who would have built it cheaper than he 
did ? — A. I do not. You could have found irresponsible men who would 
have taken the contract, but would not have performed it. 

Q. Could they not have found responsible contractors who would 
have built it any cheaper ? — A. I think not. And let me say that I think 
it was the wildest contract that I ever knew to be made by a civilized 
man. That is my judgment and my belief. 

Adjourned. 



Washington, D. 0., January 30, 1873. 

Continuation of the testimony of Horace F. Clark. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. In your testimony yesterday you based some of your opin- 
ions and calculations on the question of coal for the use of the .road ; 
do you know when coal was first discovered on the line of the road ? — 
Answer. I remarked yesterday that I had no connection with the road 
at that time, and all that I knew of it was its general history. I believe 
that there had been reports that Indians had brought in from the plains 
specimens of coal. There were rumors about coal, and men who were 
very hopeful in regard to the enterprise supposed that they would find 
coal. I suppose it was because of their conclusions from the geological 
formation ; but as to an amount of coal accessible for railroad purposes, 
my impression was that it was as late as 1864 or 1865 that the fact was 
ascertained. I remember to have heard before 1867 that the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company was paying $19 a cord for what in New Eng- 
land would be called brush. 

Q. You spoke of that matter of coal in connection with the contract 
made with Oakes Ames ? — A. My attention was not called to the ques- 
tion of the contract with Oakes Ames. No mention was made of it in 
my examination. My impression was that the road would be good for 
nothing unless available coal for railroad purposes had been discovered. 
I made no reference to the Oakes Ames contract, nor do I know the 
date when it was made. 

Q. Did you not say tbat, when you heard of the Oakes Ames con- 
tract, you thought it was the wildest that was ever made % — A. I dkl 
say that. 

Q. And did you not at that time also make this observation in refer- 
ence to the discovery of coal % — A. I meant my observation as to the 
coal question to apply to the running of the road, when built, not to 
the Oakes Ames contract. The reason why I thought the Oakes Ames 
contract a wild adventure was because it was building the road with 
the fuel question unsettled. 

Q. Do you still understand that the fuel question was unsettled when 
the Oakes Ames contract was made, in August, 1867, and when it was 
assigned in October, 1867 % — A. I should think that at that time the 
belief was quite universal that coal deposits accessible would be found. 

Q. Did you ever examine the report of Dr. Durant, which was made 
to the board of directors in regard to the surveys made up to the close 
of 1861, a report dated 10th April, 1865 % — A. Never, except as part of 
the current history of the times. I do not recollect that particular re- 



406 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

port, although I may have read it in the newspapers. I did not refer to 
the date of the Oakes Ames contract, for until now I did not know it. 

Q. Dr. Durant did make a report, dated 10th of April, 1865. I have 
the report here, and I call your attention to pages 10 and 11 of that 
report, and ask you to read it. — A. '(Beading.) " The first indication of 
this mineral (coal) in place on the line occurs on Eock or Frapne's 
Creek, in latitude 41° 43'. 

" On the other side of the divide, near the Medicine Bow Elver, at 
station 3640 of our line, a seam of coal can he seen 2 feet thick, dipping 
south-southeast, at an angle of 20°. The coal is inferior in quality, 
being extremely dry and brittle. 

" East of Fort Halleck, coal is again found, probably of the same 
formation. At both of the places mentioned some mining has been done, 
the coal from each having been used for blacksmith purposes with suc- 
cess. As to the extent of the deposit east of the North Platte Eiver, 
the undersigned has no means of basiDg an intelligent opinion. It may 
be stated, however, that the places mentioned are not the only ones 
where coal is found east and north of the Medicine Bow Mountains. 
The next coal found is near Sulphur Springs stage station of the Over- 
land Stage Company, on Muddy Creek, fourteen miles west of the sum- 
mit of Bridger's Pass. It is seen at the mouth of the canon, at a con- 
siderable elevation above the stream, and gives the following sections r 




"This opening has been worked systematically, and is carried in a 
distance of 40 feet, with but little appreciation in the quality of the 
coal, it being like that found to the eastward, brittle and imperfectly 
mineralized. The station of the Overland Stage Company, at Sulphur 
Springs, is the headquarters of one of the divisions of their line ; their 
blacksmith and repair shops are here. The object in making the coal 
opening, of which a section is given on the other side, was to save the 
hauling from Bitter Creek, whence they produce their supply. 

"At the shop I found some good specimens from that locality. I after- 
ward visited the opening from which they were obtained, and a speci- 
men is now in your possession ; an analysis of it will probably be made. 
At Black Buttes, thirty miles from the summit of Bitter Creek, and on 
our line, where this coal occurs, several seams have been opened, one 5 
feet, and one 3 J feet of clean coal. Frequent propping is required, in 
consequence of the broken, fragmentary nature of the roof. This is the 
hardest and best quality of coal found on the line. It may be stated 
that these are merely surface openings — other seams may occur at a 
greater depth ; if so, they will be found of a superior quality, having a 
better roof. Some expenditure in sinking shafts will probably be neces- 
sary to determine fully the extent and value of this coal basis. As far 
as my examination and observation went, from this point (Black Buttes) 
to near Green Eiver. the coal crops out of the bluffs frequently, and 
seems abundant." 



CREDIT M0BIL1ER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 407 

It is true that one of the reasons why I thought the scheme a wild 
one was because I thought, at the time, that the coal question was un- 
settled. In referring to the extravagance of construction I did not 
mean to reflect unkindly on the gentlemen who saw fit to permit the 
road to be built under such conditions of extravagance. I did not mean 
that. That was their policy, and there may have been some compensa- 
tions. And I ought to have stated what is a conclusion to which my 
experience has brought me, that extravagance is the law of railroad 
construction, and the reason is that one class of men advance the money 
and another class of men spend it. Men spend other people's money. 

Q. Did you ever examine the report made by Mr. Reed, one of the en- 
gineers of the company t Was he one of the engineers of the company"? 
— A. I do not know. Mr. Seymour is the man whose name occurs to me 
as the leading engineer of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 

Q. Is this pamphlet which I hold in my hand one of the documents 
printed by the Union Pacific Railroad Company? — A. (Looking at it.) 
I do not know. I never saw it until to-day. 

Q. I will call your attention to the report made by Mr. Reed, which 
bears date 24th of September, 1864. Look at page 12 of that report, 
and read the portions of it which are marked. — A. (Reading.) " Coal is 
abundant on Bitter Creek, Harris Fork, Sulphur Creek, Chalk Creek, 
Weber and Bear Rivers. Indications of coal were seen on the Muddy 
Yellow Creek, and in Echo Canon." 

Q. It would appear from this report that coal had been discovered in 
1864, and that it had been reported to the company in 1864 that coal 
was abundant on Bitter Creek and Bear River? — A. I should judge so 
from that. 

Q. And that there were indications of coal as far as Echo Caiioii ? — 
A. I should judge so. 

Q. From what points is the company deriving the coal that is being 
used on the road? — A. From the neighborhood of the Black Hills. 

Q. From those points named in this report? — A. From some of them. 
I think that very^ little coal is derived east of a line 600 miles west from 
the Missouri River. They are prospecting all the while. 

Q. It is a fact that coal is pretty abundant at those points I — A. The 
developments of coal are wonderful on the line of the Union Pacific 
Railroad, and I made the remark yesterday that it was my impression 
that before long the Union Pacific Railroad Company would be supplied 
with coal as cheap as any railroad company in the United States. 

By Mr. Shellabarger :• 

Q. Yesterday you contrasted the cheapness of the coal now being 
supplied to the Union Pacific Railroad Company with that supplied to 
other railroads of which you are president ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Are those supplies of coal, of which you spoke yesterday as being 
so cheap, from the same regions as are spoken of in the report shown 
to you as made in 1864 ?— A. Some of them are. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Did you ever examine the report made to the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company on the 19th June, 1867, by the chief engineer of the 
company, Mr.' Dodge?— A. I do not think I did. 

Q. I ask you to read the portion of his report which you will find 
marked on page 15. — A. (Reading.) " On the western side of this plain 
we pass the main range of the Rocky Mountains, about 7,200 feet above 
the level of the sea, 1,000 feet less than the elevation of Evans ? s Pass in 
the Black Hills, and enter the Bitter Creek country on the western 



408 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

slope of .the Bocky Mountains, which is desolate, dreary, not susceptible 
of cultivation, and only portions of it fir for grazing. All of it is under- 
laid with immense beds of coal. Timber on this portion of the line, for 
one hundred and fifty miles or more, is scarce, and the country has no 
inviting qualities." 

Q. Then at the time the Oakes Ames contract was let it was known 
to the company, through the report of its chief engineer, that there was 
abundance of coal on the line of the Union Pacific Bailroad % — A. If they 
credited that report, it must have been known, and there is no reason 
wny they should discredit General Dodge's statement; although it is 
well enough to remark that the reports and prospectuses which are 
made from time to time in the early history of railroads, for the purpose 
of influencing investment of capital, are very apt to be colored. 

Q. The last report that I showed you was the report of June 18, 1867 ; 
I now call your attention to the report of the chief engineer, bearing 
date December 1, 1867, and ask you to read the portion marked there. 
— A. (Beading.) "Along Bear Biver, coal of the brown formation exists 
in heavy veins, and an analysis of it shows it to be some of the best 
coal existing west of the Missouri Biver. It is easy of access, has 
solid roof, and will be mined cheaply. The line would pass near the 
-Mormon settlement at Bear Biver and Soda Springs. Snow in Bear 
Biver Valley lies steadily on the ground during the winter, hut no 
enormous drifts would be encountered, as we avoid the heavy snows of 
the Wahsatch Mountains. A line by this route, with the proper financial 
backing, could be built at the rate of three hundred miles or more in a 
year, depending entirely upon the Union Pacific Bailroad to bring 
forward to it iron for the superstructure • ties, timber, lumber, &c, 
abound, and can be furnished along the line." 

Q. Is that the line that was adopted by the company % — A. Substan- 
tially. General Dodge's* surveys, I believe, were accex>ted. 

Q. Does the road run through what is known as the Evans pass ? — 
A. I think it does. I think that is the pass through which it was built. 

Q. If I remember correctly, you stated yesterday that you regarded 
this as being a very wild contract to make, for the reason that they were 
making a road without a route? — A. I mean the whole scheme. 

Q. Do you wish to be understood as saying that these gentlemen did 
not know the route over which they were to build this road, before they 
let the contract to build it % — A. I do and did mean to say that I did so 
understand it • that when the project was set on foot, they expected to use 
the Southwest Pass, and that the cost of the road would have been very 
much greater, if it had not been that General Dodge, or some engineers, 
had discovered another route which was practicable, and which they 
got over with grades not exceeding 90 feet to the mile. 

Q. Did you understand that that discovery was not made until after 
the Oakes Ames contract was let. — A. I am informed to-day that the 
Ames contract was made in August, 1867. I should rather think that 
they had perfected tbeir surveys before that: The general impression 
among railroad men was that they had relied upon Government sur- 
veys, which were found erroneous, and that their own surveyors dis- 
covered the route through which the road was built. I should think it 
was earlier than 1867. 

Q And that they understood the general route of the road before 
the Ames contract was made; that is your understanding, is it not? — 
A. I should think before 1867, but I may be mistaken on that question. 
I thought that they had not a defined route or defined grades, and the 
impression on my mind was that they would have to encounter one 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 409 

hundred and eighty feet grades. I think they did not actually encoun- 
ter any grade beyond ninety feet. 

Q. Was it not understood or known where the route of the road was 
to be, before the Oakes Ames contract was let, and was not all that was 
undetermined as to the particular point or place along tbe route where 
they would lay the track? — A. The general route, I think, was deter- 
mined. 

Q. And what was undetermined was as to the particular place where 
they would put the track ? — A. They call it pass — the particular de- 
pressions in the range of the hills. 

Q. They understood these depressions before they let the contract, 
did they not ; that the road would go through the Evans pass? — A. I 
think so ; I think Mr. Dodge must have known it. He was many years 
on the plains. 

Q. I call your attention again to the report of Mr. Dodge in 1866, and 
ask you to read the portion of it marked. — A. (Reading.) "This line up 
Lodge Pole Creek, over the divide between it and Crow Creek, thence 
up the divide between Crow Creek and Lone Tree to Evans's pass, being 
the one finally adopted by the company, I will give the grades neces- 
sary, note some of the peculiarities of the route, and, at the same 
time, give such information as I have been able to obtain on that part 
of the line extending from Julesburgh to the crossing of the Laramie 
River." 

I refer to the particular pass as bearing on the question of grades, 
which is an immensely important question with reference to a heavy 
traffic. I have always been informed that there were much heavier 
grades expected to be encountered than were actually encountered. 

Q. Look at Appendix B, referred to in General Dodge's report. — A. 
(Alter examining it.) Ninety feet is the highest grade here. 

Q. What is the highest grade now on the road? — A. I think 90 feet, 
or thereabouts. We call it 90 feet. 

Q. Then, in 1866, when this report was made, it was known that a 
grade of 90 feet to the mile was the maximum ? — A. That is manifest. 

Q. Is it not the fact that as early as 1863-'64 they had made discov- 
eries of iron ore in large quantities along the line of the road ? — A. I 
think they had in the Black Hills at an earlier date than that. 

Q. Read another extract from this report. — A. (Reading.) " During 
the survey of this season' I resolved to investigate the matter further. 
Starting from Camp Walback in company with Mr. Van Lennep, and 
taking up the trail on the Chugwater, we succeeded in finding the bed 
some fifteen miles from where the water-washed nodules were first dis- 
covered. It occurs in a massive formation in the primary rocks. It 
may be stated to be inexhaustible. It is certainly rich in iron, and, 
unless its chemical constituents are such as to interfere with its reduc- 
tion, it cannot be otherwise than valuable. I take it for granted that 
Mr. Van Lennep will give further information about it, and trust that a 
proper analysis will be made of it to fully determine its character." 

Q. So that before this Oakes Ames contract was let the board 
of directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company knew the forma- 
tion of the country, the maximum of grades, the iron deposits, the coal 
deposits, and the facilities in the way of timber along the line of the road, 
as would appear from these reports ? — A. It would seem so. Whether 
that coal will make iron is, I believe, a subject not fully- deter- 
mined. We have been investigating with an attempt to make iron 



410 CREDIT MOBILIEK AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

where the coal and the iron come near together. It would seem that the 
conclusions at which you arrive are substantially by this report. 

Q. And what is known as the Evans Pass had been discovered before 
that time ? — A. Evidently. 

By Mr. Sloctjm : 

Q. When did you first become a stockholder in the Union Pacific Kail- 
road % — A. After the 1st of January, 1872 ; just about a year ago, I should 
think. 

Q. That was after the legislation on this interest question ? — A. This 
interest question was set at rest in March, 1871. There has been no 
new agitation of the question until since March, 1872. 

Q. You never had had any interest at all in the road until that time ? — 
A. I never had owned for a single moment a single bond or share of the 
stock, nor would I own any now but for that legislation. The act of 
March 3, 1871, is what 1 refer to. 

Q. Where are the transfer-books of the company kept? — A. I believe 
the stocks are transferred both in Boston and in New York. We have 
a transfer-office in New York. The larger transactions are there, but 
we still transfer in Boston. The market there, however, is a very limited 
one. 

Q. Can you give the committee anything like any idea of the rapidity 
with which this stock changes hands ? — A. I do not know that it would 
be extravagant to say that it changes hands like bank bills. The deal- 
ings are very large. I think that the whole amount of capital stock has 
been sold more than ten times over during the last year. The transac- 
tions in the stock are large, and have been since January, 1872. It is 
one of the active, leading, speculative stocks in the market of New York. 

Q. It is safe then to say that the entire capital changes hands at least 
once a year? — A. An amount equivalent to the capital stock is sold 
over many times in the course of a year. It is a speculative stock ; and 
the dealings in speculative stocks are much larger than the dealings in 
investment stocks. 

Q. Since you became president of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany has any money been used to influence legislation in Congress? — 
A. Not one single cent. 

Q. Has any money been used, directly or indirectly, to carry elec- 
tions? — A. Not one single cent. 

Q. Has there ever been an attempt made to draw money from you 
either to effect legislation here or to prevent legislation ? — A. It has 
been suggested to me very often that matters in Washington should be 
looked after. Congress has the same jurisdiction over those interests 
amounting to hundreds of millions of dollars in the market, taking- 
bonds and stock, that the State legislatures have : and it has been sug- 
gested to me very often to see to it by the ordinary appliances, lobby- 
ing, &c, that our interests were not assailed. I have always refused to 
listen to any suggestions of that kind, and can state with positiveness 
that not one shilling has been spent even for lobby purposes. I do not 
know but that there may have been some agencies here touching the 
accounts with the Departments. For instance, if there is a balance of 
money due by the Departments somebody has got to run it down or we 
would never get it perhaps. I do not know but that there may have 
been some sort of employment in connection with departmental business, 
but I am not aware even of that. 

Q. Did you ever have a communication from any one here saying that 
there was danger of bills being introduced that would injure vour road? 
—A. I had. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 411 

Q. And that the introduction of such bills could be prevented by the 
use of money ? — A. By some sort of intervention. 

Q. Have you copies of any of those communications % — A. I have. 

Q. I should like to see them. — A. I will produce them. I was elected 
on the 6th of March, 1872. Early in the month of April there was a sud- 
den depression in the stock market in the stock of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company, audit was rumored in Wall street, which is the head- 
quarters of speculative dealings, that the depression proceeded from 
short sales from Washington. That was on Friday previous to the 7th 
of April, 1872. I felt it to be my duty to endeavor to ascertain the ex- 
tent of the short sales. By short sales I mean speculative sales, where 
a man sells what he does not own to profit by a fall in the price. I was 
informed and believed that those short sales on orders alleged to be from 
Washington looked to a new raid, as it is called. The assailments of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company are known in Wall street by the name 
of raids, and this was supposed to be the precursor of a new raid. This 
was on a Friday afternoon. On Saturday I got a letter disclosing the 
plan, which was that on the Monday following, being resolution day, a 
resolution would be introduced in the House to open the interest ques- 
tion,which naturally excites alarm among bond and stockholders, because 
to them it is a very serious question. There are names connected with 
that raid which perhaps were unjustly connected with it. That I cannot 
help. I investigated it so far as to become satisfied that the gentleman 
who brought the details of the scheme to break down the stock before 
me was not in the conspiracy to injure, but wished to put me on my 
guard. I became satisfied on that point. On the 5th of April 1 re- 
ceived a telegram in these words : 

M Washington, D. C, April 5, 1872. 
" To Horace F. Clark, 

"President Union Pacific Railroad, New York : 
u Get very important letter in morning. Act on it without fail or de- 
lav. 

" GEORGE B. COWLAM, 

"Care General Butler, P 

In answer to that telegram I telegraphed as follows : 

" New York, April 6, 1872. 
" To George B. Cowl am, 

11 Care General Butler, Washington, D. C: 
" Message received, but letter has not yet arrived. Had you not best 
telegraph me in full to No. 10 East Twenty-Second street ? 

"H. F. CLARK." 

This was on Saturday. On the same day I received another telegram, 
as follows: 

"Washington, April 6, 1872. 
" To Horace F. Clark, 10 East Twenty-second Street, Neiv Yorlc : 

"Two very important letters, addressed Horace F. Clark, president 
Union Pacific Railroad Company, New York, went in last night's mail. 
Get them at once. It is of utmost importance for you to be here to- 
morrow morning if any way possible. Legislation ruinous to Union 
Pacific will be introduced in Congress on Monday unless prevented. 



412- CREDIT M0BILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Telegraph if you will come to-night, and will meet you at Arlington in 
morning. 

"GEO. B. COWLAM.'' 

The letter referred to came in the evening — one of them — and this is 
a copy : 

" Washington, April 5, 1872. 

" My Dear Sir: Since writing you earlier in the day I have tele- 
graphed you. On further examination I find the matter to be worse 
even than I then thought, and the combination stronger. Unless im- 
mediate action is taken to head off and defeat this movement, it will 
result in a loss of many millions to the Union Pacific Railroad. It can 
be headed off, but to do it you or some one who can act for you promptly 
and fully should be here on Sunday morning to meet me. It will be a 
hard fight, but must be a short one, and there is not an hour to lose. 

You do not know me. I am private secretary of General Butler, of 
Massachusetts, but have said nothing to him, nor to any one, of the 
matter, and shall not until I see you. I find the measure has been en- 
gineered very carefully for some time by one of the most indefatigable 
workers in the House, and he has behind him a money power and influ- 
ence and interest in the success of the plot that is more powerful than 
anything else here. Prompt action, however, can defeat, punish, and 
cower them so they won't want to try it again. I cannot too much im- 
press on you the importance of immediate action here. 
" In haste, 

" GEO. B. COWLAM.'' 

And here let me say that at this stage I considered the question 
as to my duty. It was Saturday night. I determined that I would 
not call together the executive committee of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company, and that, let whatever might be the hazard, I would not 
spend a dollar. I did not know how much had been previously spent, 
but I thought it was time to call a halt. On Sunday, the 6th of April, 
I connected the wires at the Fifth Avenue Hotel with Washington, and 
sent this dispatch, which»I«will read to the committee, because it states 
the position which the Union Pacific Railroad Company, under its present 
administration, took in regard to the matter : 

" New York, April 6, 1872. 
" To Georgxe B. Cowlam, 

u Care of General Butler, Washington, D. C. : 

" I telegraphed you this p. m., informing you that the letter mentioned 
in your dispatch of yesterday had not arrived. 

" On reaching my house, at six o'clock this afternoon, I found one letter 
from you, dated yesterday, which came through the carriers' delivery. 
At about the hour of seven this evening your telegram of to-day was 
received, in which you inform me that two important letters, addressed 
to myself as president of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, had been 
placed in last night's mail. 

" The letter received by me refers to one addressed to me by you 
earlier in the day. 

" I regret that the first letter has failed to arrive, as I presume it must 
have contained a more specific statement of the impending calamity. 

" My engagements here on Monday prevent me from going to Wash- 
ington. 

" I am not informed of the character of the ' ruinous legislation' of the 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 413 

introduction of which in Congress, on Monday next, yon advise me, nor 
does it occur to me how i it can be headed off,' unless by the purchase 
or bribery of the indefatigable worker in the House to whom you refer. 
As you do not name him I cannot juge of his intention, and should not, 
if in Washington, attempt to influence the vagabond to withhold his 
ruinous proposition, whatever it may be ; and if it be that the mere in- 
troduction of a proposition in Congress can result, as you say, in ' a loss 
of many millions to the Union Pacific Eoad,' it is quite as well that the 
owners of the property should be now informed of its precarious condi- 
tion. I do not believe that the directors of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company would sanction th^ expenditure of one single dollar to avert a 
blow of the kind you designate. 

"You are not, perhaps, aware thati n some of our State legislatures- 
propositions of an exceptional character, of dangerous tendency to rail 
road and other great interests, are sometimes introduced on resolution 
days to affect the stock-market. False reports are sometimes resorted 
to to the same end. I have not supposed that the House of Eepresenta- 
tives could be made available for enterprises of this description ; but 
however this may be, I know of no way in which the mischiefs resulting 
from such transactions can be averted except by seeming the election 
of respectable men to represent positions in legislative bodies. 

" No property can be more secure than the character of the Govern- 
ment, to the jurisdiction of which it is subject, will permit. To attempt 
to buy your peace. from strikers of this class is to encourage the very 
spirit which impels the attack. 

" A rumor has prevailed in Wall street this afternoon that some reso- 
lution of fearful import to th^ Union Pacific Eailroad Company was to 
be offered in the House on Monday, and the market price of the stock 
has been thereby considerably depressed. Whether this is or is not the 
identical scare to which your attention has been called, I cannot deter- 
mine from the facts before me. 

" If you feel at liberty to inform me by telegraph of the precise nature 
of the catastrophe to avert which you are kind enough to offer your aid, 
the executive committee of the company shall be informed, to the end 
that they may consider their duties in the premises ; but, without more 
definite information than I have already received, w^e must abide the 
result, not unmindful that the authors of these conspiracies themselves 
sometimes become the only victims. 

"An answer to this telegram, addressed to my house, will reach me at 
any time. 

" If you can forward by to-morrow's mail a copy of your first letter, or 
the substance of it. if a copy was not retained, I shall be glad to receive it. 

"HORACE F. CLAEK." 

I sent that telegram to that gentleman. Mr. Poppleton, the counsel 
of the company, was in New York or the neighborhood, and was sent for 
to go to Washington. He left New York on Sunday evening, came on 
here, and undertook to place the correspondence in the possession of 
some member of the House, so that, if a resolution were offered attack- 
ing the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, the whole thing might come 
out. On the same day I received the following answer to that tele- 
gram : 

" Washington, D. C, April 7, 1872. 
"To H. F. Clark, 10 East Tiventy-second street, New York : 

"Your long message just received. I cannot understand your failure 
to get my first letter, and still less the misapprehension and discourtesy 



414 CKEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

of your telegram ; but, as it seems to me the emergency is very great, 
if you can suggest any one here with whom I had better confer, or, if you 
desire to talk over the wires to-day, I will come to the telegraph office. 
I will write to-night, addressed to No. 10 East Twenty-second street, but 
fear letter will be too late to be of much account. 

"GEO. B. COWLAM." 

To that I sent this reply : 

"New York, April 7, 1872.'* 
"To George B. Cowl am, 

"Care of General B. F. Butler, Washington, D. C: 

" Your telegram of this morning received. I regret that you deem mine 
of yesterday discourteous. It was not so intended. I have assumed that 
your intervention was friendly in its character, and I felt no embarrass- 
ment in freely expressing my views relative to legislative stock-jobbing 
transactions. As the emergency seems to be, as you state, considerable, I 
have requested Mr. A. J. Poppleton, of Nebraska, who is the friend and 
adviser of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and who has our entire 
confidence, and who is now in this city, to go on to Washington to-night 
and meet you there to-morrow morning. He will stop at the National 
Hotel. You are at liberty to say to Mr. Poppleton whatever you would 
say to myself. He is fully authorized to represent the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company in the matter referred to, and will take such course 
as under all circumstances he shall deem expedient. 

" Please inform me by telegraph of the receipt of this, and add any 
further suggestion which may occur to you. 

"HORACE F. CLARK." 

Mr. Poppleton, by my directions, came on to Washington that evening. 
He will inform you as to what my instructions to him were in regard to 
expenditures. I said to him that the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
would not spend one cent to head off any resolution or any action ; that 
if Congress chose to destroy the property they might do it. 

Q. What was the result ; was anything done on that Monday 1 — A. Mr. 
Poppleton informed me that a motion was made in the House to suspend 
the rules for the purpose of introducing a joint resolution in reference to 
the Pacific railroads, but that a member had this correspondence and 
objected. 

Q. Who made the motion % — A. I do not know. 

Q. What day was it °! — A. Monday, the 7th day of April. The member 
in whose hands Mr. Poppleton put those papers offered to permit the re- 
sotion to come in if he might introduce the correspondence. 

Q. You have never had any conference with the member who intro- 
duced the resolution? — A. Not one w r ord. I said not one word to any 
member of Congress on the subject of the Union Pacific Railroad till 
yesterday, when I called upon Senator Edmunds, who had offered an 
amendment to an appropriation bill in the Senate which, I thought, invaded 
the rights of the Union Pacific Railroad Company. I called and made 
to him an explanation of the subject. I do not think I have ever spoken 
to any member of Congress on the subject with that exception. 

Mr. Slocum, referring to the proceedings in the Congressional. Globe 
of the 7th of April, 1372, read as follows : 

" government freight on pacific railroad. 

" Mr. Negley. I ask unanimous consent to introduce, for reference to 
the Committee on the Judiciary, a joint resolution in relation to pay- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 415 

inents to the Pacific Railroad Companies for transportation of Govern- 
ment freight. 

" Mr. Brooks, of New York. I object, and call for the regular order 
of business. 

" Mr. Negley. Then I move to suspend the rules, so as to enable me 
to introduce the joint resolution and have it referred. 

" The Speaker. A previous motion to suspend the rules comes over 
from Monday last. 

" Mr. Negley. Then I make the point of order whether it is proper 
for a stockholder in the Pacific Railroad Company to object to my 
introducing a joint resolution. 

" Mr. Brooks, of New York. Is it in order for an instrument of Wall 
street, a speculator in Pacific Railroad stock, a mere tool and agent of 
Wall street, to prepare and introduce a joint resolution of this char- 
acter ? 

"Mr. Negley. I deny all and every statement the gentleman has 
made. 

"Mr. Brooks, of New York, (holding up some papers,) I hold the 
proofs here in my hand. I knew this was coming, and had this proof 
sent me by telegraph ; I would like to have these proofs read. 

" Mr. Negley. 1 have no objection at all. 

" The Speaker. During the morning hour of Monday, the States and 
Territories are called audibly and at length for the introduction and 
reference of bills and joint resolutions. After the morning hour is over 
those gentlemen who were not in their seats when their States were 
called are permitted by unanimous consent to introduce bills for ref- 
erence. 

•• Mr. Kendall. I ask unanimous consent to introduce a bill for 
reference. 

"The Speaker. The gentleman from New York (Mr. Brooks) has 
called for the regular order of business. 

"Mr. Brooks, of New York. I will withdraw that call to let the gen- 
tleman from Nevada (Mr. Kendall) introduce his bill. 

" The Speaker. Does the gentleman withdraw his objection to the 
joint resolution of the gentleman from Pennsylvania % (Mr. Negley.) 

" Mr. Brooks, of New York. I will withdraw it, if he will permit me 
to introduce these documents I have in my hands. 

" Mr. Negley. lhave no objection. I have no interest in the Pacific 
Kailroad. I have never owned a dollar of its stock, and I am not a tool 
of anybody, nor am I an instrument of Wall street. 

" The Speaker. The Chair cannot permit debate upon it ; it is a 
matter of unanimous consent. 

" Mr. Banks. I object to any debate of any character, personal or 
otherwise. 

" The Speaker. The question is, shall the gentleman from Pennsyl- 
vania (Mr. Negley) have leave to introduce the joint resolution he has 
indicated ? 

"Mr. Brooks, of New York. I will not object, if he will permit me to 
have read all the documents I have in my hand. 

•• Mr. Negley. I do not object. 

" The Speaker. The Chair cannot entertain conditional objections. 
It is the absolute right of any gentleman to object. 

"Mr. Hooper, of Massachusetts. I object, and call for the regular 
order of business. 77 

The Witness. I do not think that there was any farther raid, as we 
call it, at that session, (Congress adjourned early that year :) but not 



416 CKEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC KAILROAD. 

ooe shilling was expended, except, perhaps, Mr. Poppleton's expenses 
to Washington. He was sent here because it might be necessary for him 
to have gone before a committee and represented the effect of any reso- 
lution that might be introduced in Congress, on the public and private 
interests involved in the Union Pacific Kailroad. 

By Mr. Slocum: 

Q. It is in evidence here that the board ot directors met on the 12th 
of December last and adopted a resolution for the issuing of sixteen 
million dollars of new bonds. Explain the purpose for which those 
bonds were to be issued, and the reason why you refrained from 
issuing them. — A. We have falling due in 1874, if my memory serves 
me right, or in 1875, as some of my colleagues in the board say, 
(but I think in 1874,) ten million dollars of ten per cent, income 
bonds. That is a rate of interest which it seemed to me and my 
colleagues we ought not to pay. Within two or three months past a 
large number of forged coupons of that class of bonds have appeared 
upon the market, I think 180 or upwards, showing that there are forged 
bonds out to the amount of at least $180,000. Many of those coupons 
have been paid. The circumstance of there being forged bonds out, of 
that class, led to a discredit of the bonds and to a fall in fche market. 
Under these circumstances and with these bonds maturing so soon and 
at such a high rate of interest, we thought there was no time to be lost 
in providing means for their withdrawal. These are printed bonds and 
easily counterfeited. Any man in the country who can print a news- 
paper can counterfeit them. There being a demand by the board of 
brokers of New York, where these securities are bought and sold, that 
an engraved bond should be substituted, which, by the high order of its 
art, protects against rude counterfeits, we resolved to issue a new debt 
of $16,000,000, the purpose being to provide means to exchange with 
those income bonds, if the holders will exchange them, or, if not, to re- 
deem them at maturity. Those who hold them till maturity will, of 
course, demand payment at par. The amount of discount on the negotia- 
tion of the new loan would depend, of course, on the credit of the com- 
pany, which might be affected by just such questions as this interest 
question. But the company cannot repudiate, and must provide the 
means to pay that debt. It may require thirteen millions of new bonds 
to do it, or twelve millions may do it, or ten millions may do it, if the 
credit of the company be good. These bonds were then ruling in the 
market at about 88. The proceedings in Congress in reference to the 
interest question have reduced them to about 71. They were 72 yester- 
day. They were then about 88. We proposed, when the new bonds 
were ready for issue, engraved in the highest order of art, so that there 
should be no more counterfeiting, to exchange them at par for the income 
bonds ; or if not to set them aside to meet those income bonds at maturity. 
The rate of interest that we fixed for the new loan was 8 per cent, currency 
and 7 per cent, gold, with the sterling rate adjusted and fixed in the 
bond. We provide a sinking fund of 1 per cent, on the amount issued, 
and we embrace our lands in the mortgage. That is the new class of 
bonds. 

Q. Why have you not issued them f — A. They are being engraved. 
It takes a" long time to engrave them in the highest order of art. We 
are going on with the work, of course, and a good many holders of in- 
come bonds have consented to make this exchange. There is a good 
deal of distrust about these income bonds, They are sent to the treas- 
urer's office at Boston and are there examined and stamped as genuine, 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 417 

but it is just as easy to counterfeit that stamp as to counterfeit the 
bonds. The balance of the sixteen millions was intended to extinguish 
the floating debt, so as to relieve the company from the necessity per- 
haps of paying high rates of interest. The company has paid its inter- 
est always, and paid the interest on these counterfeit bonds in the first 
instance, but where responsible parties presented the coupons we col- 
lected back from them. , 

Q. Is there any difference of opinion among the directors as to the 
propriety of that act? — A. Not the slightest. The resolution was 
adopted by a unanimous vote. I think that the matter was up for con- 
sideration two days. I think that the first day there was a division of 
opinion on the question, because of the want of some statement which 
had not been formally presented to the board. On the next day there 
was no division. - 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. You stated that the sales of the stock of the Union Pacific Kail- 
road Company had been very large during the past year, so that you 
think that an amount equal to many times the entire capital changed 
hands during the year ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Can you form an opinion as to how largely the present holders of 
the stock are persons who had no interest in or connection with the 
road more than twelvemonths ago ? — A. I have no doubt that the great 
bulk of them are. I will say that three-fourths of the bonded debt, and 
perhaps more, are held by innocent purchasers and innocent parties who 
had no connection with the road when it was being built. The great 
bulk of the stock is held by innocent third parties, who had no more 
connection with the Credit Mobilier than any of you gentlemen. Some 
gentlemen who were interested in the Credit Mobilier have always been, 
to a greater or less degree, holders of the stock. The stock is saleable ; 
you can sell it in a minute, and people sell it in view of a raid, or they 
buy it with conditions of confidence. 

Q. Can you obtain for the committee a list of the holders of the 
stock at the end of the last month, and the number of shares held by 
each person ? — A. Let me remark, in respect to a speculative stock : 
take Erie, or take any non-dividend-paying stock, in respect to the 
value of which there are uncertain elements. The stock is not trans- 
ferred $ it is only the dividend-paying stocks where you can find, at any 
particular time, the owners. This stock floats like a bank-bill, without 
reference to the name of the party who is the registered owner. We 
could close our books, but even then people would not transfer their 
stock. A gentleman living in Washington, or a woman living in the 
interior of the country, may own a hundred shares of Union Pacific 
Railroad stock, and it may stand in my name, or in your name, or in 
anybody's. There is no mode by which you can put an ear-mark on 
stock current as a speculative stock in Wall street. But I feel it my 
duty to say to this committee, that the great bulk of the bondholders in 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and the great bulk of its stock- 
holders are innocent in respect of all the matters alleged, touching the 
Credit Mobilier, or touching any effort to bribe Congress. They knew 
nothing about it. The Union Pacific Railroad bonds have been rather 
a favorite investment, because they were cheap bonds, and at a high 
rate of interest. In respect of the stock, a very large majority of it is 
owned by parties who have had no relation of any kind with its previous 
history. They are what may be called innocent third parties. Those 
people I represent. 
27 CM 



418 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. How do you, on the election of officers of the Union Pacific Kail- 
road Company, ascertain who are entitled to vote on its stock? — A. We 
give notice of the election in advance. We keep the books open to a 
day certain, to permit transfers ; then we close the books. On the 
record j as it stands at the close of the books, the vote is taken. A 
person who owns stock looks at his certificate, and if he finds it stand- 
ing in the name of a gentleman in the direction in whom he has confi- 
dence, he does not transfer it. Then there has been, heretofore, a 
stamp-tax of twenty-five cents on each transfer. That stamp-tax is now 
removed, yet, the result is that stock is not transferred, except where 
the stockholder is dissatisfied with the administration and desires a 
change. Then, by transferring the stock to his own name, his proxy 
is the one that votes. 

Adjourned. 



Washington, D. 0., January 31, 1873. 

Examination of Horace F. Clark continued : 

Mr. Shellabarger, (to witness.) I wish to ask a few questions, ad- 
dressed to you both as president of the Union Pacific Eailroad and as a 
person expert in matters relating to the construction and management 
of railroads. In order to ask the questions intelligently, I wish to make 
a statement to you in relation to some things that are disclosed by the 
testimony before the committee. It appears by the testimony that on 
the 16th of August, 1867, a contract was made with Oakes Ames by the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company for the construction of six hundred and 
sixty-seven miles of road extending westward from the one hundredth 
meridian. That contract stipulated for the payment to Mr. Oakes Ames 
of certain amounts per mile — for the first one hundred miles, $42,000 
per mile ; for the second division, one hundred and sixty-seven miles, 
$45,000 per mile ; for the third division, one hundred miles, $96,000 per 
mile ; for the fourth division, one hundred miles, $80,000 per mile ; for 
the fifth division, one hundred miles, $90,000 per mile ; and for the sixth 
division, one hundred miles, $96,000 per mile. Then, on 15th October, 
1867, there was made what is called an assignment of the contract, 
which is also sometimes called the tripartite agreement, in which Oakes 
Ames composed the first party, the seven trustees the second party, and 
the Credit Mobilier the third party. Among the stipulations (and the 
only one that I care to call your attention to now) is the fifth one, as 
follows : 

"Fifth. To pay over, on or before the first Wednesday of June and De- 
cember in each year, or within thirty days thereafter, his just share and 
proportion of the residue and remainder of the said proceeds and avails 
as shall be justly estimated by the said trustees to have been made and 
earned as net profit on said contract, during the preceding six months, 
to each shareholder only in said Credit Mobilier of America, who, being 
a stockholder in the Union Pacific Eailroad shall have made and exe- 
cuted his power of attorney or proxy, irrevocable, to said several parties 
of the second part, their survivors and successors, empowering them, the 
said parties of the second part, to vote upon at least six-tenths of ail the 
shares of stock owned by said shareholders of the Credit Mobilier of 
America in the capital stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD 419 

011 the day of the date hereof, and six-tenths of any stock in said Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company he may have received as dividend, or other- 
wise, because or by virtue of having been a stockholder in said Credit 
Mobilier of America, or which may appertain to any shares in said 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company which had been so assigned to him at 
the time or times of the distribution of the said profits as herein pro- 
vided ; and this trust is made and declared upon the express condition 
and limitation that it shall not inure, in any manner or degree, to the 
use or benefit of any stockholder of the Credit Mobilier of America who 
shall neglect or refuse to execute and deliver unto the said parties of the 
second part his proxy or power of attorney, in the manner and for the 
purpose hereinbefore provided, or who shall in any way, or by any 
proceeding, knowingly hinder, delay, or interfere with the execution or 
performance of the trust and conditions herein declared and set forth/' 

Now there is testimony tending to show that at the date of the Oakes 
Ames contract in August, 1867, and prior thereto, the parties, stock- 
holders of the Credit Mobilier, had an understanding with Mr. Ames that 
they were to share in the benefits of his contract. Among these state- 
ments of that character is this one. Mr. Alley testifies : " The con- 
tract was not given to the Credit Mobilier on account of the feeling 
against it on the part of the chief men and managers of the Union Pa- 
cific Eailroad Company ; but they gave it to Mr. Ames, and all the par- 
ties interested had perfect confidence in him that he would do what was 
right, and would give to every man an interest such as belonged to him. 7 ' 

Further, Mr. Bushnell makes this statement : " You ought to know 
that, although there was no written contract, it was a distinct under- 
standing that a contract should be made, and that the contractor, if not 
the Credit Mobilier, should be some one who would give the benefits 
of the contract, any profits to be made from it, to the holders of the 
Credit Mobilier stock. That was a distinct understanding." 

Mr. John M. S. Williams had a contract for making part of the road, 
which was afterward embraced in the Oakes Ames contract. He testi- 
fies : " It was understood that we were dealing with ourselves to get the 
control in the right hands. We were identical in interest. The Credit 
Mobilier and the Union Pacific Eailroad Company were the same identi- 
cal parties. We were building it for ourselves, by ourselves, and among 
ourselves. There was not $20,000 outside interest in it.' 7 

Further on, in the examination of Mr. Williams, this question is put 
to him: "Q. Do I understand you to say that, when your contract was 
taken in January, 1867, already at that time there had come to have been 
an unclerstanding^between the Union Pacific Eailroad Company and the 
Credit Mobilier that any profits that were made on your contract would 
inure to the benefit of the Credit Mobilier, and that, therefore, they 
would iraire to the benefit of the stockholders of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company, because they were substantially identical? — A. Yes, 
sir. Q. Was that also true at the time of the letting of the Oakes Ames 
contract, that all benefit and profit that could be derived from that would 
inure to the benefit of the stockholders in both corporations? — A. I was 
not a party to that until a long time afcer it was made. That was my 
understanding of it, however." 

Now there is another feature. It appears that at the letting of the 
contract for six hundred and sixty-seven miles to Oakes Ames, extend- 
ing from the one hundredth meridian westward, there was about one 
hundred and thirty-eight miles of the road completed and accepted by 
the Government, and that when the work was afterwards let to Oakes 
Ames, this completed and accepted part was embraced in his six hun- 



420 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

dred and sixty-seven miles, and that those prices which Mr. Ames was 
to get, which I have stated to you, were paid and allowed for the entire 
line let to him, including that which had already been so completed and 
accepted — which I understand to be about one hundred and thirty- 
eight miles. There is testimony before the committee tending to show 
that this one hundred and thirty-eight miles thus completed had cost, 
including the rolling-stock, about $27,500 per mile. Now, in relation to 
that matter this question is put to Mr. Durant : u Q. To strip this thing 
of all verbiage and circumlocution, is it not the fact that the difference 
between what these two hundred and thirty-eight miles had cost the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company, and the amount which it was let for 
under the Oakes Ames contract, composed the assets out of which this 
dividend was declared? — A. It did certainly. Q. You call it profits; is 
it not just simply the increased price that was paid under the Oakes 
Ames contract over the cost of construction ! — A. Yes, sir." Now, the 
only other additional testimony to which I desire to direct your atten- 
tion relates to the dividends that have been declared as profits under 
the contracts. On the 12th of December, 1867, a dividend of 60 per cent, 
in first-mortgage bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company was 
declared, amounting to $2,543,208. 

On the same date a dividend of 60 per cent, in stock of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company was declared, amounting to $2,543,208. 

On the 3d of January, 1868, a dividend was declared of 20 per cent, in 
first-mortgage bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, amount- 
ing to $748,000. 

On June 17, 1868, a dividend of 60 per cent, in cash was made, 
amounting to $2,201,204. 

On the 8th of July, 1868, an allotment was declared of 30 per cent, in 
cash, amounting to $1,112,768. 

On the 3d of July, 1868, an allotment was declared of 75 per cent, in 
first-mortgage bonds, amounting to $2,804,050. 

On the 29th of December, 1868, there was an allotment of 200 per 
cent, in stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, amounting to 
$7,500,000. 

That foots up $19,352,474. To that is to be added a dividend of 12 
per cent, for the years 1866 and 1867. 

Now, my first question, based upon the history of this transaction, is 
to know of you as an expert whether that dividend of the assets of the 
corporation is in accordance with sound usage and business transactions 
in the construction of the railroads of this country ? — A. In many re- 
spects I should say that that dividend was unprecedented. In some 
particulars, perhaps, it was not. In the early history of railroads, going 
back forty years, the usual course was to obtain subscriptions to capital 
stock, or to obtain money on loans on the bonds of the* railroad, 
and then to have the money thus subscribed and borrowed disbursed 
in the construction on account of stockholders. That was the case, 
I tbink, in respect of all the roads up to, say, fifteen years ago. 
The result was that in most instances the stockholders lost all their 
money. As a general rule, the first set of stockholders, tbe first con- 
tributors, lost all their money. Of late years this plan of forming con- 
struction companies to take to themselves all the stock and all the 
securities, and to build the road, has been resorted to, and has not 
been regarded as any violation of sound business principles. The 
great distinguishing feature of this case is, that the gentlemen who 
formed this construction company were themselves the directors 
of the corporation with which the company dealt. I have known 
within the last five years of construction companies in the case 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 421 

of several railroad projects, but this is the first case I ever knew where 
the parties were identical. The construction companies, as a general 
rule, were composed of parties who dealt with the railroad corporation 
at arm's-length ; and it has not been uncommon for those construction 
companies to take all the securities of every description of stock and 
bonds, and turn over the road finished according to their contract ; but 
when the construction company becomes the judge of the completion, 
and when the dealing is between the same parties, then it encounters a 
principle of equity jurisprudence with which' lawyers are familiar. I 
think that at the present time it is almost impossible to raise the capital 
to build any railroad by the ancient methods. There were peculiar cir- 
cumstances in this case, which perhaps rendered it impossible to raise 
the capital by those ancient methods to build this road. JBut I speak 
irrespective of the question of the relation of trustee and cestui que trust 
that existed in this case. 

Q. Is it the opinion of the present administration of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company that the transactions which I have described in the 
question are such as do not entitle the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
to call upon the gentlemen who procured this division of profits to 
account to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company for any part thereof; 
and, so far as you know, is it the purpose of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company not to call upon them so to account % — A. This question has 
not been considered by the board of directors of the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company since my administration ; the facts have never been fully 
developed ; at all events never until now. To what extent the subject 
has been considered by individual directors, I cannot say ; it has been 
agitated more or less among the stockholders. I have, myself, consid- 
ered it under the lights presented, although I still think that all the 
facts are not as yet fully developed. It is alleged, from the develop- 
ments in the course of this examination, that the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company, as a corporation, assented to this Credit Mobilier arrange- 
ment under its corporate seal, and it would be, perhaps, urged that the 
company is estopped from setting up the wrong. It is also asserted, 
whether true or not, that every stockholder in the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company assented to the transaction. To-day you assert that all 
assented, with the exception of the holders of $20,000 of stock. As- 
suming that every shareholder in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
assented to that arrangement, and cannot complain of it, because of 
special frauds in its consummation, there might be urged an estoppal, 
and the question that would be left would be, whether it is competent 
for parties owning the stock to give an assent, and then to dispose of 
their stock to innocent third parties shorn of those equities ; that, per- 
haps, is a new question. There are difficult legal questions which may 
arise in the matter. There has been no formal consideration of the case, 
and will not be until the facts are so far developed that all the legal and 
equitable rights can be ascertained. 

Q. I will now read a part of the eighteenth section of the act of Con- 
gress of 1802, which has not been modified by subsequent legislation 
and which is as follows : 

"And the better to accomplish the objects of this act, namely, to 
promote the public peace and welfare by the construction of a railroad 
and telegraph line, and keeping the same in working order, to secure to 
the Government at ail times, particularly in time of war, the use and 
benefit of the same for postal, military, and other purposes, Congress 
may at any time, with a due regard for the rights of said companies 
named herein, add to, alter, amend, or repeal this act.'". 



422 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

I ask you now, in view of the principles of equity jurisprudence, and 
also of those provisions of the charter, whether it is the opinion of the 
government of the Union Pacific Kailroad Company that it is not the 
obligation of that company to enforce the collection of those assets which 
have been divided in the way described in my question; and this, espe- 
cially in view of the rights which the Government of the United States 
has in the premises. And, I add, is there any estoppal that would pre- 
vent the Government and your company, as its representative, from 
so enforcing such collection'? — A. We recognize the fact that this is 
a public franchise, created by eminent domain, and subject to the 
control of the sovereign power, as are all franchises. The franchise 
was not only to build and maintain the railroad, but to secure to 
the Government, in time of war as well as in time of peace, the 
use and benefit of the road for postal, military, and other purposes, 
and we recognize the power of the Government that created, to de- 
stroy; we have not raised the question as to the powers which may 
rightfully be exercised by the Government under the provision of the 
charter, authorizing additions, alterations, amendments, and repeah 
The State charters of railroads reserve the same powers, and it is per- 
haps an open question whether the prohibitions of the Constitution of 
the United States against States impairing the obligations of a contract 
apply to the Government of the United States at all. I do not recollect 
any provision of the Constitution of the United States which prevents 
the Federal Government from impairing the obligation of contracts. The 
moral question is still left open, whether the Government of the United 
States could make such an addition, amendment, or repeal, as would vio- 
late the private rights of third parties who have reposed on the faith 
of Government acts. Your question involves another point to which I 
have given some consideration. What is the right of the Government 
In this property, irrespective of the public franchise % The Government 
made no gift to the Union Pacific Kailroad Company except of lands and 
right of way; the term "subsidy" is used in connection with the loan of 
the credit of the Government. The Government lent its credit, and took 
a lien in the nature of a second mortgage on the road for the amount of 
$27,000,000. The Government paid no money ; it merely lent its credit. 
It gave every alternate section on account of the valuable consideration 
which inured to it of rendering the sections retained of some value. The 
relation of the Government to this company in respect of its property 
is nothing more nor less than that of a creditor with a lien. I have 
never been able to see how the Government is injured, provided the 
road is maintained and the Government debt is paid. But it is said 
that that debt has not been paid. We allege, and I think with great 
reason, that it was the contract that this credit should be lent for thirty 
years ; that iuterest should not be exacted, except by withholding one- 
half the transportation money, (I mean under the law of 1864.) Now, 
I do not concede, nor do I think that any right-minded lawyer will 
claim that under the authority to alter, amend, or repeal the act, the 
Government can change the bargain. The 5 per cent, derivable by the 
Government under another section of that charter, after the completion 
of the road, does not, on a fair construction of the charter, put the Gov- 
ernment in the position of an interested party in the profits. The 5 per 
cent, to be paid in each year upon the net profits was to be credited 
on the debt; it was to go to reduce the debt. The interest, therefore, 
of the General Government in the profits of the road does not exist 
except as the lien of a creditor. If the debt of the Government was 
actually paid off, then the Government would stand toward this company 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 423 

in the precise relation in which the State governments stand to railroad 
companies created by their jurisdiction. The Government reserved the 
right (and it was, I think, a most unfortunate circumstance for this 
company that that was part of the arrangement) to appoint 25 per cent, 
of the governing body. The transactions in the past have been ap- 
proved by those Government directors, and it seems to me that the 
Government is estopped from setting up, as against the rights of inno- 
cent third parties who have dealt with these properties and these securi- 
ties on the faith of its enactments, the claim that it can make such amend- 
ments aud alterations as to affect the rights of such parties. 

In relation to the subject of recovering these moneys. If recovered, 
to whom would they belong 1 Assuming that the Credit Mobilicr scheme 
was a violation of the established rules of equity jurisprudence, and that 
the profits, if any, can be brought into the treasury of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company, to whom would that money belong ? Not to the Gov- 
ernment, because the Government is only a creditor, and when its debt 
is paid its lien is extinguished. The Government is not a stockholder. 
The Government is not in the position in which it would have been if it 
had embarked capital in the enterprise and at the risk of it. The Gov- 
ernment did not choose to build this road with its own capital, but simply 
volunteered to lend its credit secured by a second-mortgage lien. It is 
true that the Government is interested in the maintenance of the road, 
and in its having sufficient strength to enable it to do the Government 
service ; and that perhaps would be a very proper subject of inquiry. I 
think that even State legislatures may very properly exercise jurisdic- 
tion over railroads chartered by them, and by such amendments and pro- 
visions as do not impair the obligations of the contract get adequate and 
reasonable security that the franchise shall be maintained. But the 
money divided among the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier cannot, it 
seems to me, be grasped by the Government except as an act of spolia- 
tion. These questions have not been considered by the board of direct- 
ors., and I am not authorized, and do not undertake, to express an y but 
my individual opinions. 

Q. Bo I understand you to say that so far as your own individual 
opinions go, as a director of that corporation, that that corporation does 
not deem it any part of its duty to the Government of the United States 
to collect those assets that have been divided in the way described in 
my first question from those who did participate in these divisions of 
assets ? — A. I said nothing of that kind ; I spoke of the question of the 
title to these moneys if recovered by the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany ; and I will say, in more direct answer to your question, that it is 
the duty of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company to recover back froni 
any of its directors or agents any money or properties which they have 
received, and to which they have not a good title. What disposition 
should be made of it is the point to which I supposed you addressed 
your inquiry. 

Q. No. ,1 will repeat my question. It is whether, so far as you know, 
it is the purpose of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company to enforce 
against those to whom these divisions were made re-imbursement to the 
treasury of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company from the men who were 
responsible for those divisions? — A. It is the duty of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company, and it may be regarded as its purpose. I am now 
assuming that a state of facts exists subjecting them liable either in a 
court of law or in a court of equity. 

Q. Assuming the state of facts 'to be substantially such as is described 
in the question I first put to you, is it your opinion that that state of 



424 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

facts under the light applicable to them would require such duty on the 
part of the board ? — A. It is. 

Mr. Shellabaroer. State what your board proposes to do about it, 
so far as you represent the opinion of the board. 

The Witness. We will endeavor not to deal unjustly, not to act in 
mad haste, nor under excitement, nor in accordance, perhaps, with the 
demands of popular prejudice. It is not my habit to lie down before a 
storm ; but assuming that this company has been despoiled by reason of 
these transactions, and that it is not barred in such a way that recovery 
in a court of law or of equity cannot be had, it is my judgment that it is 
the duty of the company to look after the property that has been lost. 
But you will permit me to say that I cannot assume that everything 
which has been stated is necessarily true. 

Mr. Shell ABARGrER. My question, you understand, is carefully con- 
fined to the statement of facts as set forth in my former question, and, 
assuming that statement to be substantially true, is it, then, your 
opinion, and, so far as you know, that of your board of directors, that 
you ought not to enforce collection of those distributed assets from the 
men who participated in and were responsible for that division $ 

The Witness. On the statement of facts presented by you, it is my 
opinion that the technical relations, or the actual relations, that existed 
between some of those gentlemen and the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany precluded them from an acceptance of a profit which should inure 
the cestui que trust on established rules of equity jurisprudence. What 
the case may be as to those who do not sustain that technical relation 
I will not speak. For instance, I know of no impediment in your way, 
if you had seen fit to enter into the contract with the Union Pacific 
Eailroad, to build the road according to that contract, and turn it over 
to them as an arm's-length dealing. I know of no principle of law that 
forbids that. Of course every transaction is open to the allegation of 
actual fraud, but I know of no disability in such case. I think that 
here there was a disability, and I think that the ordinary rule which 
compelled a party dealing with himself in respect of the subject-matter 
of his trust to surrender the profits, if he makes any, and to bear the 
loss, if a loss accrues, applies to the case. But I shall not, so far as I 
am concerned, do anything which I do not think just and right, in 
view not only of the facts developed, but of all the facts in the case. 
I never could see the principle (referring to the resolution of the House 
authorizing the employment of counsel to sue stockholders of the Credit 
Mobilier) on which a creditor, with a debt not due, can strike through 
his own debtor at parties who may be illegal holders of his debtor's 
property. 

Q. State whether your board has considered the question of the pro- 
priety of instituting a proceeding looking to re-imbnrsement of those 
funds by those who are responsible for the division of them. — A. I 
stated at the outset that our board had not considered this question ; 
the developments in regard to this matter have been made since the 
last meeting of the board ; the subject has not been considered by the 
board as a board ; it has become the subject of general discussion, and 
I do not think that any inference can be drawn that the directors of the 
company will be unjust to themselves or the public. 

Mr. Hoar. I put some questions to you the other night with the view 
of helping to satisfy the committee of the justice of certain steps, sup- 
posing the power to take them existed, the object of which was to learn 
whether, in your judgment, the road would have been better off if this 
money that was expended in the construction of the road or in dividends 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 425 

to stockholders of the Credit Mobilier had been paid into its treasury as 
capital stock, and if, then, with that stock, the company had proceeded 
to make contracts with strangers in the ordinary way. I infer from 
some of your answers at the time, and from some comments which 1 have 
seen since, that the purpose of my question, which was to bring out a 
strong statement, which, it seems to me, the gentlemen engaged in this 
transaction would desire to have prominently presented, is somewhat 
misunderstood. It is with a similar view that I purpose to put the 
questions which I have in my mind now. I wish to learn from you, as 
representing I he railroad, and as having occasion to consider the legal 
effect of these transactions, whether, in your view of them, certain possi- 
ble proceedings on the part of Congress would be just or unjust in any 
particular. Now, iu the first place, I want to ask you in reference to the 
view, which you have already stated in your last answer to Mr. Shella- 
barger, as to the relations of this corporation to the Government. As- 
suming, for the purpose of all the questions that I am about to put to 
you, that the decision of the questions in dispute between the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company and the Government shall be made most 
favorable to the railroad, that is that the company is not bound to make 
full payment of interest, and is liable only to a withholding of half the 
Government dues, I suppose that at some time after the expiration of 
thirty years, if not before, there will be an obligation on the part of the 
railroad company to reimburse the Government for something; do you 
not? 

Mr. Clark. Unquestionably; that is, when the debt is due according 
to the contract. 

Mr. Hoajr. Yes ; at the end of thirty years. 

The Witness. I do not understand that it is in the power of one of 
those contracting parties to change the contract. 

By Mr. Hoar : / 

Q. Do you not understand in the next place that for this obligation, 
such as it is, (perhaps not to exist till thirty years hence,) the Govern- 
ment has a second mortgage or lien on the full value of the property of 
the company ? — A. Yes. . 

Q. Now you understand, do you not, that it is the duty of the corpo- 
ration, acting through its board of directors, to manage that property 
for the interest of all persons concerned? — A. Yes; including the lien- 
holders, and I recognize the right of a holder of a lien to prevent waste. 

Q. So that it would be true in your view, would it not, that some- 
thing more than the mere relation of debtor and creditor exists between 
the Government and the railroad company ; that the relation of trustee 
and cestui que trust exists so far as it is the duty of the corporation to 
preserve the Government security against waste? — A. Precisely; with 
this qualification, that I think the relation of trustee and cestui que 
trust does not exist between the Government and the company. I recog- 
nize the duty of the Government to take a course to prevent waste of 
the mortgage security, but not of the general estate of the debtor. 

Q. Do you not understand that an obligation rests on that company 
so to manage the property that the security for the debt of the Govern- 
ment, to accrue in thirty years hence, shall not be impaired ? — A. I do, 
and to that end the present administration has resorted to economy and 
to the cutting off of abuses which previously existed. I recognize to the 
fullest extent, not only the legal principle to which you have referred, 
but the moral obligations of the company. 

Q. I suppose, of course, that you would very properly claim that that 



426 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

relation did not prevent a reasonable regard for the interest of the stock- 
holders of the road, including a right to make reasonable and suitable 
dividends, if in the course of their business management it would be proper 
to do so. — A. I shall answer your question in the affirmative, simply say- 
ing, however, that no dividend ought to be made that should impair the 
security or that might be a waste, or that might interfere with the main- 
tenance of the road. 

Q. Now these transactions in the Oakes Ames contract with the stock- 
holders and the Credit Mobiliermay be considered in either of two aspects, 
to both of which I wish to call your attention as a lawyer and as a person 
skilled in the management of railroads. First, suppose the Union Pacific 
Kailroad Company had found themselves able to construct that road out 
of the proceeds of the Government bonds loaned to them, and out of such 
capital stock as had been actually subscribed in cash, do you conceive 
that they would have had a right to borrow the twenty-seven millions, 
more or less, which they were authorized to do on their first mortgage, 
and to subordinate the lien of the Government to that ? — A. They did 
not subordinate it; the Government did that. 

Q. But if they had not borrowed the money the Government lien 
would not have been subordinated ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you conceive that they would have had a right to do that for 
the purpose of immediately dividing that twenty-seven millions as a 
dividend? — A. There is no use in disguising the fact that here was a 
construction company, the purpose of the organization of which was to 
make money out of the contract and to divide it ; there can be no dispute 
about that. Now, assuming that the money could have been obtained 
in the ordinary way by stock subscriptions or by the negotiation of a 
first mortgage with the Government lien subordinated, I think the deal- 
ing was improper; but you will permit me at the same time to say that 
I do not believe that could have been done. I do not recall the answer 
which I made to you the other day, that I believe if the ordinary course 
had been resorted to there would have been no road built. 

Q. The Government, your idea is, might say in looking at this thing, 
"These gentlemen did not exactly comply with the law, but as far as we, 
the Government, are concerned, we are as well oif as if they had?" — A. 
And better. 

Q. "And therefore we do not propose to deal severely with this trans- 
action.' 7 That was the object of my inquiries the other night. — A. I did 
not so understand you ; but let me say that this very day, applying the 
rules of honest, fair dealing, the Government is indebted to this company, 
and has derived greater advantage from it than the whole amount of its- 
loan to the company. 

Q. Leaving out now the question whether you think the road could not 
have been built, (and that question has been put to nearly a dozen of those 
gentlemen, who all say that they do not think they could have got anybody 
to subscribe that capital,) do you not concede that if that had been done, 
it would not be a fair dealing with this trust or power or franchise, to 
have borrowed this money and made a division of it among the stock- 
holders? — A. I do. 

Q. So even if you treat the Credit Mobilier, and Mr. Ames and his 
successors, as having obtained the assent of every stockholder in the 
Union Pacific Kailroad Company, and if you assume that the obtaining 
that assent bound everybody interested as a stockholder in the corpora- 
tion for the future, still you would concede, would you not, that their 
duty to the Government did not permit of their borrowing mouey under 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 427 

that power to make it a first mortgage for the mere purpose of making 
a dividend ? — A. I can hardly assent to the proposition as you state it. 
They would not have been at liberty to do anything that would impair 
the lien of the Government as a creditor, they would not have been at 
liberty to do anything that would defeat the purpose of the franchise, 
which was to have this road maintained for postal and military pur- 
poses. But I think it can be demonstrated that the Government cannot 
complain of any act which does not infringe on its right of eminent 
domain, or obstruct or interfere with the purpose for which the act was 
passed. The Government made the bargain. It may have been wise 
or it may have been unwise. I think the object of the Government was 
to get a road fit, and the Government got it. I do not think it could 
have got it in any other way. The Government, instead of advancing 
its own capital, instead of building the road itself, saw fit to make a con- 
tribution of its credit to a limited extent, and to call upon citizens to 
furnish the balance in one shape or other. They did it — our predeces- 
sors did it, and we succeeded to their rights. We now say to the Gov- 
ernment, "Perform the contract and we will.' 7 

Q. The Government, however, reserved to itself, did it not, the right 
to a mortgage or lien upon that property ? — A. It reserved a lien for the 
sum for which it loaned its credit. 

Q. Assuming now as a fact that that money had been borrowed on 
the first mortgage, not for the purpose of constructing the road, but tor 
the purpose of making a dividend, do you not concede that to that ex- 
tent it was a violation of the rights of the Government by impairing the 
value of its security, for a purpose for which they were not authorized 
to impair it ? — A. Treating the Government irrespective of the question 
of sovereignty, and as a mere creditor, I do not understand the principle 
on which the Government can complain of these dealings, provided its 
ultimate security is not impaired. 

Q. But is not the security of a second mortgage impaired by every 
unnecessary increase of the first mortgage ? — A; The security stipulated 
was a second mortgage, subordinated to a lien of $27,000,000 to which 
preference was given. This was the bargain. 

Q. Was not the security stipulated, a security on the whole property 
of the road, subordinate to a lien of so much of the $27,000,000 as 
should be necessary for its construction ? Was not that the case ? — A. 
I have not examined the act specially with reference to that point. If 
that be so, and if the Government lien was made subordinate, not to 
$27,000,000, but only to such portion of $27,000,000 as might be necessary 
for the construction of the road, then there has been a dealing unjust to 
the Government. 

Q. Do you not concede that it would be the duty of the managers of 
this road to apply, subject to the right to make proper and reasonable 
dividends to the stockholders, its resources during that thirty years, to 
pay off the first mortgage, and thereby to increase the security of the 
Government for its second mortgage? — A. I never considered that the 
creditor had a right to anything more than his pound of flesh, and the 
right to stay waste, in respect of his specific security. Now, assuming 
that the company had money in its treasury to-day, and the question 
was before us, whether we should make a reasonably moderate dividend 
to the stockholders, or pay to the Government a debt not due, and the 
payment of which the contract postpones for thirty years, I should have 
very little respect for the Government that would complain of our mak- 
ing the dividend, provided its own security was not impaired. 

Q. That is not my question. My question is, supposing you had in 



428 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

jour treasury to-day the proceeds of this first mortgage, they not being 
necessary for the purpose of constructing the road, do you conceive that 
your fidelity to the duty imposed upon you by the Government would 
permit you to divide these entire proceeds, beyond the amount of a rea- 
sonable dividend, and to put them in the pockets of the stockholders ? — 
A. Certainly not. 

Q. Or do you think you should pay off the first debt? — A. Unques- 
tionably. Of course, by paying off' the first lien you make the second 
lien the first. 

Q. Now I come to my next question. Suppose it should turn out that 
in violation of that duty the managers of the road, your predecessors, 
had put that money into their own pockets without right, and were now 
held by a court of equity to restore it to you to be applied as it should 
be, could it be any possible injury, either to your road or to the present 
stockholders, in their capacity of present stockholders, if those prede- 
cessors of yours were compelled to do that ? — A. No, clearly not. 

Mr. Hoar. I speak, of course, of a judicial proceeding, not of the 
exercise of any arbitrary legislative power. 

The Witness. Of course; I do not take Cossack legislation into 
consideration. 

Mr. Hoar. I do not assume by my questions that any legislation 
could compel a man to pay it up, unless he was already liable in law and 
in equity to do so. But you do not see that your road would be in the 
least injured by such a thing? 

The Witness. Not the slightest. 

Mr. Hoar. But on the contrary would be benefited ? 

The Witness. Greatly ; and I hope you did not understand me as 
saying the other day that it was not the duty of the company to pay its 
debts, if it had the money. 

Mr. Hoar. Now I wish to take the other alternative. The act of 
Congress, as you understand it, requires the original capital stock to be 
paid in cash. Now, supposing that it should turn out, that instead of 
paying in that capital stock in cash at par, the then subscribers to that 
stock who had bound themselves so to pay it in cash, at par, had gone 
through a proceeding, the substance of which was that, instead of pay- 
ing in $36,000,000 of capital in cash, at par, they paid in only 30 per 
cent, of that amount in road building. Suppose that to be the transac- 
tion, do you see that any injury could accrue to the road or to any per- 
son in interest in it as a stockholder, by compelling those subscribers 
now to make good their obligation to pay that amount in cash into the 
treasury of the road, to be applied either in the payment of its debts or 
in strengthening its resources, developing its other property, or in such 
other way as should be judged proper? My question assumes not that 
those persons are tb be called upon to do this by legislation, which I do 
not suppose possible for a moment, but it assumes that it shall turn out 
that Congress should simply provide in what court such a proceeding- 
should be brought, and that the judge should decide that the parties 
were already liable to it. That is my proposition. 

The Witness. When I spoke of jurisdiction, I meant not imperial 
power, but judicial power. Assuming that there be judicial power that 
can be invoked to that end, why, of course, no harm can result to the 
vStockholders. But the case, it seems to me, is an ideal one, because 
the property has changed hands. If there were an original valid sub- 
scription for say $36,000,000 of stock, and if that subscription was a 
subscription by responsible parties, and the stock had been issued with- 
out payment, there would undoubtedly be a legal liability on the part 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 429 

of the subscribers to pay in the unpaid portion. But, when you put 
the case to me of a road accepted in lieu of a cash subscription, or of 
rolling-stock worth perhaps $7,000,000 accepted in lieu of a cash sub- 
scription of $7,000,000, whether the transaction was wrong or not de- 
pends upon the question whether the -property put in was or was not 
equivalent to the inoney. Assuming what I believe to be the truth, 
that it was not utterly impossible to have obtained the subscription in 
the ordinary mode to carry out an enterprise as wild as this was, as- 
suming that you could find somebody wild enough to build the road and 
turn it over, the question whether that was a wrong to anybody or not 
depends upon the question of the value of what was turned over. But 
to require an impossible amount of money to be raised, to be then 
disbursed in any particular way is, it seems to me, form without sub- 
stance. 

Q. Suppose it should turn out that your predecessors, for the balance 
of what they received for the construction of this road, had paid in t 
only, in performance of their obligation to take the capital stock at par. 
what was equivalent to thirty per cent, of its par value in road build- 
ing, as Mr. Oliver Ames, the then president of the road, says was the 
substantial understanding on both sides, have you considered the ques- 
tion of the power of your company, by a bill in equity, to compel the 
balance of these subscriptions to be so made good? — A. I have consid- 
ered the case in that respect, but I have assumed that no imperial 
power exists to change the contract in order to meet the exigencies of 
that particular case, and I have not come to a conclusion as to the par- 
ticular form of remedy. If the stock had been issued, 30 percent, paid, 
and 70 per cent, unpaid, you could call in the 70 per cent. But here 
the company has recognized this as full-paid stock ; it is distributed in 
a commercial community as full-paid stock; every man who took it 
knew that he could not be called upon to make any new payment in 
respect of it; and I should be very unwilling myself to be put in the 
position of asserting so absurd a claim as to ask a woman, or an infant, 
or a guardian, who had purchased this stock as full-paid stock, to come 
in and make a payment which the original subscribers of the stock had 
failed to make. 

Q. You do not understand the point of my question. I do not assume 
by my question that a person who has made a contract to pay for stock 
in cash, and has not made the payment, he being a director in the road, 
and covering up the transaction or excusing himself, and who then sells 
the stock, can impose the obligation on his successor to make the pay- 
ment. I am only speaking of the obligation of the individual himself. 
Suppose the Government to be a cestui que trust in regard to its security 
for its debt, and not a mere creditor, have you considered the question 
of the power of the Government by a bill in equity, making both the 
corporation and those persons parties, to compel them to make good 
their original obligations to take the stock? — A. I have considered that 
question. 

Q. Can you conceive any posssible injury that could accrue either'to 
the road or to the present stockholders, if such a proceeding were to be 
maintained ? — A. No ; but, at the same time, I must be permitted to 
say that it occurred to me, in considering the question, that it would be 
a disastrous failure to attempt to assert a claim against any other than 
the original contracting parties. The remedy, if any, is a remedy against 
parties who, by actual fraud, or by a fraud which the law presumes 
because of the technical relations of the parties, did the wrong. The 
redress must be sought from the parties who did the wrong, and must 



430 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

be sought on the part of the Government through its own debtor. I 
now speak, of course, of the administration of a government bound by 
the ordinary rules,, and not exercising imperial power. In this very 
connection I will say that I have learned, since I became president of 
the company,. facts which satisfy me that, among the spoliators of the 
property, the Government itself occupies a very prominent position. 

Q. Leaving out now your opinion as to the possibility of such a 
remedy by mere judicial process, and looking only to the question of its 
justice on the part of a Government desiring to be just with all its citi- 
zens, in your opinion as to whether the Government ought to exact a 
strict penalty, if it can be called a penalty, for a violation of the law on 
the part of the directors of this company, you would be considerably 
influenced by inquiring into the fact, whether the men who did it took 
corrupt means either to bribe the agents of the Government or to lull 
them to sleep, and close their eyes so as to prevent them being in a 
mood to investigate the transactions and to break them up as they were 
going on? — A. I should, undoubtedly. 

Mr. Hoar. Having called these matters to your attention with the 
object of hearing your views on the practicability of this remedy, the 
main object of my calling attention to them was twofold— first, that I 
might be certain that every suggestion as to the justice of it which 
occurred to you should be presented in all its force to the committee ; 
and second, that I might also be certain that it did not occur to you 
that it would work any injustice to the innocent parties whom you now 
represent, and one of whom you yourself are. 

The Witness. I am ; but, at the same time, as one of the stockholders 
of the company, I am unwilling that injustice shall be done to the men 
who may have made mistakes under former administrations. 

Mr. Hoar. Now, I wish you to state to the committee any considera- 
tions that you have in your mind, tending to show the advantages that 
have been reaped by the Government by having this road built in the 
manner it was built, instead of not having it at all, which you think would 
have been the other alternative, either in the form of saving its money 
on transportation, or in any other mode that you can think of, and 
which you think ought to be presented to this committee. 

The Witness. I will present a few. All that the Government gave, 
as I stated before, was these alternate sections of land. By giving 
that, the Government made the sections retained valuable. Without 
the road they would have been valueless. The Government did no 
more in that than any private individual would do in giving a small 
piece of worthless land to somebody who would make the adjacent land 
valuable; and while it is very common in the newspapers and in Con- 
gress to talk about a subsidy, there was no subsidy irrespective of the 
land. There was a loan of credit, and, on the theory now insisted upon, 
it was a cut-throat loan — a loan payable before it was due — the most 
fatal loan that anybody can make. Now, the advantages derived by 
the Government are, first, that there has been already saved to the 
Government a larger sum of money, in my judgment, than the whole 
amount of its credit loan. A standing army almost has been dispensed 
with, and a domain greater than that occupied by many of the great 
governments of the earth has been brought into civilization. Take the 
transportation. There has been saved every year in transportation 
a sum almost equal to the whole interest on the Government loan. I 
have not with me the statistics. A report has just been made from 
the Post-Office Department, to which I wish to call the attention of the 
committee, and from which it will be apparent that there has been saved 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 431 

in mail transportation to the Government, every year, an enormous sum. 
At this very moment this singular state of things is presented. The 
mail service is increasing. Congress passed a law, last winter, author- 
izing express-packages to be carried in the mails — freight transportation. 
The amount of mail-matter is increasing, while the amount of transpor- 
tation of men and materials is decreasing. The amount of transportation 
of troops and munitions of war decreases. The Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company really has a standing army, and pays it out of its own 
resources, which protects the country and protects the travel. A few 
years have wrought this change of things. During the process of con- 
struction half of the working force of the company had to be armed to 
protect the other half, while our engineers in charge of working parties 
were in some instances scalped. Now there is no sort of interference 
from Indians, and the Government will very soon have its interests pro- 
tected as safely along that great line as it is to-day protected in Ohio 
and Indiana. This enterprise was peculiarly a child of the Government. 
The Government set it on foot, made promises, held out representations, 
and made pledges which invited the investment of private capital. It 
made pledges, in my judgment as a lawyer, and in my opinion as a man, 
as clear and specific as the pledge which it made to pay its ordinary 
public debt. And it led the people, it led me, into an investment in that 
property. To be sure, I had another motive, which was traffic in con- 
nection with other railroads. The Government has attained its end in 
full, which was to have a first- class road, a better road than was con- 
tracted to be built ; and the present company finds itself in possession 
of a. road the cost of which has been enormously increased by govern- 
mental intervention. Let me give an illustration. By the original char- 
ter of the company, the Government was to appoint commissioners to 
inspect and accept various portions of the road as constructed. The 
company had no voice in the appointment of these commissioners. The 
Government used it as a means for the distribution of political patron- 
age. It appoints a commissioner to examine a piece of road at a time 
when there were five or six hundred thousand dollars in bonds withheld 
by the Government, and he makes a strike upon the company for $25,000. 
Unless the company will pay him that sum he will not sign the report. 
Take that case. Whose fault is that 1 The Government made that ap- 
pointment. And in this particular instance it appoints a man who it 
must have known would take just such a course. Well, you may say 
the company paid the bribe ; but this is no fault of the company. When 
the Government appoints a man who it must be known would have done 
just such a thing, perhaps it was a mutual fault ; but that $25,000, which 
was one of the items increasing the cost of the road, is as much the 
fault of the Government as it is of the company ; and is more the fault 
of Government than it is of the present innocent third parties, who own 
the property. 

Mr. Swann. To what commissioner do you refer 1 

The Witness. I knew the gentleman well when I was a member of 
Congress, and I would rather not mention his name. It may be that 
others made like demands. I hope the whole truth will come out, but 
I hope you will excuse me now from naming him. Take another case. 
Government commissioners go over the road on a particular occasion — 
men unacquainted with railroads, men knowing very little of their neces- 
sities, and in my judgment perfectly incompetent for the position — and 
they make a suggestion that a machine-shop, as good as to-day exists 
on any of the great eastern trunk lines of road, should be built, two 
hundred and ninety-one miles west of the Missouri Eiver, to cost two 



432 CEEDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

or three hundred thousand dollars. They make that demand. The 
company yields, because it is in the power of these commissioners, and 
it builds machine-shops at the crossing of the North Platte river, cost- 
ing perhaps three hundred thousand dollars, and which are not worth 
three cents to-day. They are of no value ; no railroad man would have 
them, but there they stand. The company lost the money. The shops 
are there, and we do not use them. Take another instance. It has cost 
us a half a million of dollars to raise the grades at certain places where 
the snow obstructions take place, which grades were depressed by the 
direction of those Government commissioners for the purpose of making 
a dead level instead of having a road conforming to the natural surface 
so far as practicable without undue elevation of grades ; and now 
it has cost us a half a million of dollars to fill up these snow-holes, 
which the commissioners insisted upon, or they would not certify so 
that the money due the company could be obtained. The Government 
has used its power over this road for the purpose of distributing political 
patronage ; and if the history of the dealings between this road and 
the Government — I mean the administration— ever becomes known, it 
will be, in my judgment, the most melancholy exhibit of human falli- 
bility of which any great business transaction affords a record. I 
should like to state some reasons. 

Mr. Hoar. 1 think that the object of the committee is to get that 
history out, 

The Witness. I will state some of the circumstances. You will 
recollect, gentlemen, that the position in which I find myself is the de- 
fender of the rights of one hundred millions of capital now owned in for- 
eign countries and by citizens of the United States, who have dealt on 
the faith of the Government, and are in alarm lest the Government 
should repudiate the very acts on the security of which the investment 
was made. The Government loaned its credit in the form of bonds. 
These bonds were receivable as a basis for the currency-issue of the 
national banks, and I am informed they were accepted as such for a 
considerable time. Suddenly, without any act of Congress — without 
any reason that has ever impressed my mind as respectable — the Treas- 
ury Department refused to permit them to become a basis for banking 
purposes. That threw a discredit upon the bonds, and down they went. 
They were as much bonds of the Government as any other part of the 
public debt. The Government has never repudiated them ; but by refus- 
ing to let them be a basis for banking, a large sum of money was lost to 
the company, because of the resulting depreciation of their value. The 
next thing that the Treasury Department did, in relation to the bonds, 
was that they did not count them as part of the Government debt, and 
they thus discredited them. They treated them as the debts of the 
Pacific railroads. Well, true, they were, thirty years hence; but they 
were the debts of the Government at that time. That has been a fatal 
discredit. Perhaps a loss often per cent, resulted from that. Further- 
more, the Treasury Department has published the company as defaulting 
debtors in reference to these arrears of interest — begging the question 
that the interest was due. That was the treatment in reference to the 
bonds. And now go further. The road is finished. The company does 
the service without any complaint. Suddenly, in 1871, the Government 
stops paying altogether, but demands that the service shall be per- 
formed. Without an act of Congress, without the assertion of the 
power of Congress to amend the charter or repeal the law, the Govern- 
ment stops paying for its transportation. That was an arbitrary act of 
a Department or a clerk in a Department. I do not know who did it. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 433 

Congress then intervenes and directs the payment to proceed. New 
parties come in, and, reposing on the faith of* that settlement of the 
question, I, with my friends, become a purchaser of over twenty thou- 
sand shares of that stock, when I supposed that the question was set 
at rest by the enactment of 1871 — by the mandamus given by Congress 
to the Secretary of the Treasury to obey the law of 1864. While I 
acknowledge that there may be a difference of opinion among legal gen- 
tlemen as to the fair construction of these acts, there is not a railroad 
man in the country, nor a woman or child, seeking an investment, who, 
reading this act, would not say that the Government had pledged itself, 
in the act of 1864, to require only one-half of the interest. We took 
control of the company last spring ; we commenced economies ; we cut 
off abuses ; we stopped leakages, and the very moment that reform com- 
menced assailments began. Millions were lost by that action, and every 
time that these raids have been made in Congress fortunes are lost or 
won. The misfortune is that these losses sometimes fall upon the poor, 
who cannot afford them ; the rich can protect themselves. In March, 
1872, the present administration took possession of the road and com- 
menced the reformation of abuses which had long existed. Instead of 
seeking to subsidize Congress or the lobby, they cut it all off, and set 
the lobby at defiance, and said, "If you mean to destroy this property, 
destroy it now." 

This Credit Mobilier excitement grows out of the political canvass ; 
and under the cover of it, under the cloud and darkness that result 
from it, an assail ment is made which has depreciated the securites of 
this company nearly half of the whole amount of the Government loan. 
One class of securities of ten million dollars has fallen from 88 to 72. 
Every one of its securities has fallen, and a general distrust enters the 
public mind and the mind of parties dealing in these securities that after 
all there may be here no security at all. Now it never has been intimated 
to me from any Department, since 1 became president of the Union Pa- 
cific Eailroad Company, that that company has not fulfilled its contracts 
to the letter. No request has ever been made from any Department that 
has not been complied with. No complaint has been made, but legisla- 
tion has run through Congress which puts the Government in the posi- 
tion of saying to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, "You shall do 
this work, and we will not pay the money for it. We insist that you keep 
the road in order, and if it is necessary to spend another half million of 
dollars to keep it open against the winter storms, and if additional 
locomotives are rendered necessary by the increase of the mails, we 
demand that you supply them, but we will withhold the compensation." 
Now these are samples of the dealings between the Government and the 
company. If that account; is adjusted on principles of equity, the Govern- 
ment would be largely indebted to the stockholders of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company. I would call upon the committee to have laid before 
it the reports of the different Departments, showing the actual saving to 
the Government, by reason of the construction of the road, and the com- 
mitte will find that the Government has had all its money paid back to 
it, and more too, while it is now engaged in confiscating the property of 
citizens invested in the enterprise. 

Mr. Hoar. If you think proper, you had better take those reports, 
and cause to be made up an exact statement, as nearly as you can on 
this point, and present it to the committee at an early clay. 

The Witness. I will have it done. I have said these things for the 
purpose of calling your attention to the abuses of the Government prac- 
ticed upon the ow T ners of this property ; and I ought to have mentioned 
28 C M 



434 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

the fact that, while this company was allowed till 1876 to finish the road, 
it finished it within a few years at enormous expense, with, as I said 
before, the most wasteful extravagance, a very considerable portion of 
which was caused by the intervention of the Government commissioners 
themselves. But there was this compensation, that if this loan made 
by the Government was, as is now contended, to be paid currently by the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company, the interest would have ruined it if 
the construction had been slow. 

Mr. Hoar. Mr. Alley was asked, during his examination, how much 
the Oakes Ames contract of 667 miles cost the persons who constructed 
the road ; to which he replied that in round numbers it cost them thirty 
millions of dollars, in his judgment. He was also asked what were 
the proceeds of the amount of Government bonds, and of first-mortgage 
bonds, which the contractors were entitled to receive and to apply to 
that construction ; and he made a computation that it was $30,015,000. 
Then he was asked what in his judgment was the average length of time 
between the actual advances of money by the road-builders for the pur- 
pose of expending it on the road, and its re-imbursement by reason of 
their obtaining and disposing of these two classes of bonds ; to which he 
answered that he should think it was about three months; he was cer- 
tain it was not as much as six ; he did not think it was four months, al- 
though it might be; but it was not, in his judgment, more than three 
months. Now with reference to your answer the other night in regard 
to the possibility of having built that road cheaper and better if the 
company had had in its treasury the thirty millions of capital repre- 
sented by its stock, I wish to attract your attention to those answers of 
Mr. Alley, and to inquire of you, whether in your judgment they are 
true ; and whether, if they are not true, you would suggest any modifi- 
cation of them ; and whether, if they are true, that would not occasion 
you to modify your answer given the other night ; in other words, was 
there anything needed, with the resources which the Government had 
put into the power of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company — first, by the 
loan of its bonds ; secondly, by giving it the right to mortgage its right 
of way, franchise, &c. — to bridge over the period that that construction 
was going on, wasteful and costly as it was ? 

The Witness. The hazard to the constructors was, in my judgment, 
not that they could not build the road ; but that, when the road was built, 
it would be worth nothing. 1 always supposed that, if the Government 
would send out an armed force to keep off the Indians, the company 
could lay the track and build the road ; but I would not have agreed to 
give eighteen pence for it after it was finished. These gentlemen seem 
to have so regarded it, and to have attempted to make their money out 
of the construction of the road, on the assumption that when it was 
built it might be valueless. I was somewhat cognizant of railroad mat- 
ters at .the time of the construction, but I did not invest a dollar in 
it. I was told that there would be a very large profit ; but still I thought 
the money invested would be a total loss. You are aware that there are 
very few gentlemen who can be tempted by any profit, if they think 
they will lose the principal. Now you could get no money from the 
Government until you built twenty miles of the road, and the risks of 
dealing with the Government are very great; the history of this road 
has proved them so. I do not believe to-day, that if this road were not 
built and finished, you could to-day raise the capital to build it again. 
The Government would have to do it itself; the experiences of the last 
two years have shown that there is no security in this kind of dealings. 
I do not think that it would have been possible to get the money into 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 435 

the treasury wherewith to build that road. Railroad directors do not 
build railroads ; that is doue by another class of men — a class of men 
who spend the money of other people, and that of course engenders 
extravagance. I do not think that anybody can tell what that road 
would have cost if the money had been in the treasury. Now, as to the 
profit. I do not know what the profit was ; but I do feel at liberty to 
say that a very large profit ought to have been derived by men who 
risked their money in such an enterprise — assuming that they sustained 
no such technical relations as that their dealings were on account of 
their principals if a profit accrued, and on their own account if a loss 
was sustained. 

Mr. Slocum. You can foot up the absolute profits derived by these 
gentlemen from their dividends. 

The Witness. Inasmuch as the prices at which these bonds were 
disposed of varied from time to time in the market, I cannot tell what 
the profits were. I have figured from the newspaper accounts as near 
as I could get at them, and I have never heard the figures stated as 
large as nineteen millions till Mr. Shellabarger stated them to-day as 
the dividends in stock and bonds. 

The Chairman. In addition to the nineteen millions mentioned by 
Mr. Shellabarger, you will recollect that when the Credit Mobilier in- 
creased its capital stock from $2,500,000 to $3,750,000, a $1,000 bond of 
the Union Pacific Railroad was distributed to subscribers for these addi- 
tional shares — for every ten shares — which would amount to $1,250,000 
in bonds. In addition to that, I call your attention to the fact that there 
was one dividend in cash of $2,201,240 ; and that there was one divi- 
dend in cash of $1,112,768 ; so that there was nearly three and one-half 
millions of dollars in money divided. Can you now give us, approxi- 
mately, what the whole of these dividends amounted to, taking the 
stock and bonds at what they were selling at $ 

The Witness. The stock commanded a higher price than 30 at one 
time. I. cannot give you the market price of the stock at those several 
dates. 1 do not think that the stock was on the market then. There 
were never very extensive dealings in the stock until after the legisla- 
tion of 1871 gave it strength. 

Q. What was the amount of money expended by these men in con- 
struction 1 — A. In the neighborhood of seventy-five millions of dollars, 
as I am informed. 

Q. Have you been engaged in building railroads yourself 1 ? — A. Yes, 
sir j I have been engaged in construction companies in building lateral 
roads connected with trunk lines in several of the States, and while I 
have invested capital in the construction company, it has assumed the 
risk of building the road and dividing all the securities. The cases 
differ from this, because I never sustained any relations as director to 
the company for which the road was built. 

Q. What do business men consider a fair profit on the work in these 
construction combinations ? — A. Remember that construction companies 
with which I have been connected are companies which furnish all the 
capital and take all the securities for better or for worse. The amount 
of a fair profit depends upon the extent of the risk. A man who furnishes 
$2,000,000 to build a road connecting with great trunk lines would not 
think he made too much profit if he made 100 per cent., and that is a 
case where success is almost certain. Take any dry-goods merchant 
or grocer on Pennsylvania avenue, and he thinks he does a poor busi- 
ness if he does not make 25 per cent, a year. Railroad enterprise is 
about as hazardous a business as can be, because you are dealing with 



436 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

an uncertain future, and in such adventures a large profit ought to be 
realized. 

Q. Your idea is, then, that, barring the objection that these men were 
dealing with themselves, their profit was not any greater than it should 
have been. Is that your, idea ? — A. I would not take my chances in the 
enterprise. If a man puts down his money in a faro bauk, he may lose 
it all ; and he ought to have a large profit in view of the extraordinary 
hazard. 

By Mr. SLOCroi : 

Q. I want to ask a question about this matter of economy. How do 
the operating expenses of your road compare from its commencement 
to the present time % — A. We are reducing them all the time. All ex- 
travagance and waste is being cut off. 

Q. Have you cut down salaries since you became president ? — A. The 
salaries or compensations paid by this company were at one time pretty 
much upon the principle of the dividends in the Credit Mobilier. Take, 
for instance, the salaries of the four presidents. John A. Dix was the 
first ; Oliver Ames was the second ; Thomas A. Scott the third, and 
myself the fourth. I take no salary. I will not take compensation from 
a road that cannot pay dividends. 

Q. What was General Dix's salary % — A. There is a salary attached 
to the office of president. I believe it is eight or ten thousand dollars. 
The very moment that economies began, and that extravagance was cut 
off, that very moment Government began a war upon the company. The 
very moment that the road ceased to be used for the distribution of 
political patronage, that very moment these processes of attempted 
destruction commenced. 

Q. What was General Dix's income from the company when he was 
president of the company ? — A. Eight thousand dollars. General Dix, 
I think, resigned the presidency of the company to take the mission to 
France. He went to France and there he rendered some service, I think, 
in regard to the bonds. 

Q. While he was minister to France!— A. Yes, sir, I think so. That 
is my impression, and a compensation was paid to him. 

Q. What was paid to him for his service rendered while he was min- 
ister to France % 

Mr. Hoar suggested that the witness could have no personal knowl- 
edge of it, unless from the record. 

Mr. Slocum, (to the witness :) 

Q. Is that a matter of record ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then I want to know how much money was paid by the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company to General John A. Dix while he was minis- 
ter from this country to France! — A. I will not say that the money was 
paid while he was minister, because I was not a party to its payment ; 
it was not paid during my administration. Of course my knowledge of 
it is not personal. I have no personal knowledge of the $250,000 bonds 
that your contemptuous witness got, or of the $400,000 in the suspense 
account, or of the $126,000 which was given for special legal services. 
Not one shilling of any of these sums was paid under my administra- 
tion. 

Q. What do the books show was paid to General Dix while he was 
minister to France ? — A. The sum, I believe,, is $50,000 ; but I do not 
know that the money was paid while he was minister, nor do I know 
that it was paid for services rendered during his mission. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 437 

Q. I want to know the amount that was paid to General Dix by the 
Union Pacific Railroad while he was minister abroad ? — A. You will 
understand that I have not said that payment was made to him while 
he was minister ; I do not know the actual date of the payment. 

Q. What was paid to hint by the company alter he left the presidency 
of the road ?--A. Fifty thousand dollars in addition to his salary is 
what I have been informed. That is the tradition ; that is the state- 
ment of the company ; that is one of the items in the coast of the road. 

Q. What service was that in compensation for? — A. I have been 
informed that the services were in connection with an attempted nego- 
tiation of the bonds. 

Q. But no bonds were negotiated in France? — A. I think not. This 
was a very great enterprise, and the expenses of every description have 
been on the largest scale of extravagance. We have endeavored to 
check them and to razee them down to ordinary proportions. 

Mr. Hoar. I want to see that there is no misunderstanding as to Mr. 
Clark's precise knowledge of this matter of General Dix. It is entirely 
proper that fact should appear. 

The Witness. I did not introduce it. 

Q. Be good enough to state exactly the extent of your personal 
knowledge about the transaction with General Dix as distinguished 
from what has been told you by others ? — A. I have no personal knowl- 
edge on the subject ; and the first time that the matter was ever called 
to my attention was during the political campaign just passed; and half 
the slanders and half the falsehoods current at the present hour sprung 
into life during the late political canvass. 

Q. Have you seen on the books, or can you find on the books of your 
company, what appears in reference to any transactions with General 
Dix ? — A. (Referring to the ledger.) I am not familiar with these 
books. A ledger is placed before me which I have never seen before, 
and which contains an account. 

Q. It purports to be the ledger of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, does it not ? — A. It does ; I never saw it before. In this account 
General Dix is charged with $24,000, received at various times between 
the 24th of May, 1865, and the 1st of November, 1866. He is credited 
with $19,000 and $5,000, as expense account. The details of that 
account I cannot ascertain without referring to the blotter. I am not 
an expert as a book-keeper. 

Q. You say that you heard of the matter during the campaign of last 
fall ?_A. Yes. 

Q. Do you recollect from whom you have derived any information on 
the subject % — A. From my colleagues in the board. 

Q. Do you recollect from which of them f — A. I see some of them here 
present. Mr. Duff was a director at the time, and he spoke to me about 
it. I do not see any other gentlemen present who was a director at the 
time of these payments. 

Q. What I want to get at is the official statement made to you. I 
want to have it exact on paper what the information is. What state- 
ment have you received from officers of the road in relation to that mat- 
ter, so far as you can recollect % — A. From time to time facts are stated. 
It is not my practice to accept statements without verification. When 
they are material in the interest of the company I verify them, but no 
man becoming president of the Union Pacific Railroad Company in 1872 
could have a personal knowledge of the previous transactions of the 
company. 

Mr. Ho AH. I understand that. I want to distinguish, first, what you 



438 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

know of your personal knowledge, and next what you have learned from 
officers of the company, and then I suppose you may give the general 
current company stories, such as you deem necessary for the present 
investigation. What have you learned from officers of the road in rela- 
tion to the money paid to General Dix? — A. I have learned from officers 
of the road that $50,000 was paid him. I do not know anything about 
this $24,000 which I see on the book. The $50,000 was paid, as I was 
informed, for alleged services touching the proposed negotiation of some 
twenty millions of bonds; but I am not the witness by which any facts 
can be established. 

Q. Was the statement made that this sum was paid to General Dix 
while he was minister abroad! — A. I have said that I never heard 
the specific date mentioned when this payment was made, nor have I 
ever been informed of the particular period at which these alleged ser- 
vices were rendered. 

Q. You state, then, that you have not been informed, so far as you 
know, that the services were or were not rendered while he was minister 
abroad, or that the payment was or was not made while he was minister 
abroad?— A. If you ask me for my information on the subject 

Q. Yes; for your information derived from officers of the road? — A. 
I abhor and detest the defamation which seems to me to be the order of 
the day: but if you ask me for my information on this question, I will 
give it. IJiave no secrets, and shall not withhold any facts. 

Q. I want to know whether those statements that you have received 
from the officers of the company showed that General Dix rendered this 
service or received this money while he was minister abroad ? You 
say they did not point to a particular day. — A. At which the payment 
was made ? 

Q. I ask you whether they pointed out that it was during his mission 
abroad ? 

The Witness. When the alleged services were performed-? 

Mr. Hoar. Yes. 

A. It has been so stated — the alleged services. 

Q. IsTow in relation to this ledger which you have just looked at, will 
you be kind enough to look at it again, and see if there is not a precisely 
similar account with Mr. John «T. Cisco, on the same page % — A. (Referring 
to the ledger.) Here is an account with Mr. J. J. Cisco — a precisely cor- 
responding account on page 646, covering $24,000. 

Q. Who is Mr. J. J. Cisco ?— A. A banker of high respectability 
residing in the city of New York. He was then treasurer of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. I want to hear something about this Wyoming coal contract. I 
have seen it stated that the contract had been made by the board of 
directors. Are you still acting under that contract ! — A. There are fal- 
lacies afloat in regard to that Wyoming Coal Company contract. If 
you want the facts you shall have them. 

Q. That is what we want. — A. The facts are these : There was a con- 
tract made, I think, in 1868, between the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany and two men named Godfrey and Wardell. Let me say, in this 
connection, that the document which the chairman of the committee 
laid before me yesterday led me into an error, on one point. On refer- 
ring to the Wyoming Coal Company contract, a date is given in it 
which shows that I was in error in assenting to a question which was 
put me yesterday in reference to the time of discovering coal. It was 



CREDIT MOBILIEK AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 439 

after tlie Wyoming coal contract that there was the first practical de- 
velopment of coal west of Cheyenne. That contract has been the sub- 
ject of criticism and of local complaint. It was made during the 
administration of Oliver Ames. When I became president of the 
company I found it in existence. We examined in relation to the 
facts, and called before us Mr. Wardell, who was a party beneficially 
interested in one-tenth of the contract. The contract was substantially 
this : The coal mines of the road were leased for a term of fifteen years 
to those two gentlemen, who were practical miners. They were part- 
ners, under the arrangement, it being part of the scheme that they should 
incorporate as the Wyoming Coal Company, under the act of either the 
State or Territory of Nebraska, and that the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company should own nine-tenths of the stock and these gentlemen should 
own one-tenth. I have made inquiries in respect of the state of facts 
in respect of the fuel question, at the time that that contract was made. 
This contract stipulated certain fixed prices that should be paid for the 
coal during this term of fifteen years, on a descending scale. I thiuk 
that we are now working under the four-dollar rule, which was the price 
fixed for the second term. There was a clause in that contract which 
gave the parties with whom the company contracted a drawback of 
twenty-five per cent, on all other coal transported ; and it was represented 
that the practical effect of such a contract was to create a monopoly. 
On examining the question I found that we could control the Wyoming 
Coal Company, because we were owners of nine-tenths of the capital 
stock, and this provision which had been obnoxious to some, and to 
which some of the Government directors had objected, was, by resolu- 
tion of the Wyoming Coal Company, struck from the contract, and does 
not now exist. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. What is that obnoxious provision? — A. It is a provision giving 
Wardell and Godfrey 25 per cent, bounty upon all coal mined by other 
parties. The practical effect of it would be to give to them out of the 
treasury of the Union Pacific Railroad Company 25 per cent, of the 
freights on coal mined by other people, and would enable them to under- 
sell, or would favor them in the competition. That was the point that 
was struck out. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. That was the practical effect of it? — A. There never had been 
anything done under it. The practical effect of it would have been that, 
and that would have discouraged the mining on other lands of the com- 
pany ; that provision, however, was struck out. 

By Mr. SLOCUM : 
Q. I wish to ask you one or two questions bearing upon the remark 
that you made about Government directors. Are the Government di- 
rectors oppressing the road now in the manner which you have described 
that they have done heretofore ? — A. My remark related to the Govern- 
ment commissioners. The present Government directors, with some 
differences of opinion on some questions, and such, differences as would 
naturally arise in a board of directors where twenty-five per cent, of 
them do not own stock and have no interest in the property, are in 
entire harmony with the other directors of the company. And there is 
the best of faith, and, so far as I know, the best of feeling between them. 
The present Government directors, I believe, do their duty to the 
Government in all respects. They do not conceive that they have in charge 



440 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

the interest of bondholders and stockholders as much as they have the 
interest of that great outside public, whose interest is against railroads. 

By Mr. SvfANN : 

Q. This road has been spoken of as a finished road. Jt has been ac- 
cepted by the Government and looked upon by the public as a finished 
road. I wish to know whether you consider it as a finished road?— A. 
You know very well that there is no such thing as a perfectly finished 
road ; and that because the work of decay begins as soon as the work 
of construction ends. I should say that this is a finished road with 
the exception that there is some heavy work to be done. There is some 
trestle-work where there should be filling. The Government says that it 
is a finished road when the payment of the 5 per cent, on the net proceeds 
is claimed, and the Government says it is not a finished road when we ask 
for a patent for the land. The commissioners appointed by the Govern- 
ment have reported that we have got to fill up where this trestle-work is 
before the road is finished. So it seems to be finished or unfinished, 
according to the interest of the parties considering the question. I should 
say that it was a new road finished, with the exception of some heavy work 
that will require a good deal of money. There are some very deep fillings 
to be made where there is now trestle-work, which trestle-work will last 
from seven to ten years, according to the timber of which it is built. 

Q. I understand that the road has reached a point where it is neces- 
sary to have it relaid speedily, and from year to year ? — A. It is not 
necessary to relay the whole of it, but to make extensive repairs. 

Q. I wish to know what amount of iron you, as president of the com- 
pany, propose to contribute from year to year toward the necessary re- 
pairs of that road, so as to keep it in good condition throughout the entire 
line % — A. We intend to put enough iron in to keep it in a first-class 
condition adapted to its traffic. That must be regulated somewhat by 
our means. If the Government withholds one-half of the transportation 
money we certainly shall have so much less money to expend for iron. 

Q. Has not the road reached the point now where these repairs are 
absolutely necessary, and where you will be necessitated to contribute 
a very large amount of iron from year to year f — A. That is true ; and 
ties also. 

Q. Can you estimate the amount that will have to be contributed in 
either monthly or yearly installments % — A. I cannot ; because it de- 
pends a good deal upon traffic. There is a large growing traffic. 

Q. I speak of the present traffic ? — A. We have got to appropriate a 
very large sum for iron. We propose to build a rolling-mill so that we 
can make our own iron, provided this coal that we have on the road 
will make iron. 

Q. Can you approximate the amount that will be necessary to appro- 
priate to relay the road from year to year, until you have completed the 
operation ! — A. I cannot ; because we do not know in what condition 
we will come out in the spring. 

Mr. Swann. That is material to this committee, because I take it for 
granted that those outlays will come out of the net proceeds of the road. 

The Witness. Of course. 

Mr. Swann. So that your net proceeds will be reduced by that 
amount"? 

The Witness. They will. I can ascertain by telegram, and can 
inform you in the course of the day, what iron will probably be needed 
between now and next fall. We look for the necessity of extensive re- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 441 

pairs of iron. And therefore it is that we think that the withholding 
of this money at such a period as this is inauspicious. 

Q. And this amount of iron, I presume, will be increased from year to 
year; that is, you will need a smaller appropriation this year than will 
be required some five or six or seven years hence"? — A. I think we 
cannot aiford to use steel, and that there is no actual necessity for 
putting steel on a road where the freight trains and passenger trains all 
run as slowly as we think it is in the interest of the company, and of all 
concerned, to run our trains. 

Q. What amount do you expect to set apart as a sinking-fund, or to 
expend immediately to relay the whole line of this road? — A. We expect 
to expend half a million dollars perhaps between now and' next fall. 

Q. And you think that that will be increased from year to year, as you 
go on 1 — A. I think so; and you must recollect that it is very expensive 
for us to get iron there, unless we can make iron; and I do not know 
yet whether the coal we have will make iron. 

Mr. Swann. My object is to ascertain what draughts will come upon 
you that will encroach upon the net proceeds of this road; and, there- 
fore, it is important for this committee to know what amount is to be 
deducted from the net proceeds of the road for this specific purpose. I 
understand you to say that at least half a million dollars will be required 
for this coming year. 

The Witness. Yes. 

Mr. Swann. Which, of course, must come out of the net proceeds of 
the road. 

The Witness. Certainly; it may came out of the gross receipts. It 
must be done, at any rate; and if we cannot get it from the net profits, 
it must come out of the gross receipts. 

Mr. Swann. I want to know what amount you expect to realize from 
year to year under your present traffic? — A. By no possibility can any 
dividend be made to stockholders until a very large amount shall be 
expended for iron. 

Q. And you consider that that amount will have to be deducted from 
the net profits of the road ? — A. Unquestionably. 

Q. And can come from no other source? — A. From no other source, 
unless gentlemen see fit to lend money to the company. 

Q. But it would not be legitimate on the part of the company to bor- 
row money to relay their track. — A. I think it would be legitimate to 
borrow money to keep the road safe. The first necessity for the road is 
that it shall be kept in a condition to do the Government service and 
the public service. 

Q. What amount did you state to be the floating debt of the com- 
pany ? — A. Treating that two-million note as a nullity, and not as an 
obligation, the floating debt is in the neighborhood of two million dol- 
lars; but as collateral security for loans made by directors individually, 
there have been hypothecated certain assets of the company which I do 
not regard as a very extraordinary security. 

Q. What assets of the company have been hypothecated! — A. All its 
available assets; for instance, all the investments in the Utah roads, 
the Colorado Central road, the Atlantic and Pacific telegraph stock, 
some city bonds, and some income bonds belonging to the company. 
All of the available securities of the company are hypothecated. 

Q. What is the total amount of the assets of the company that are 
hypothecated "I — A. The amount is one thing and the value another. 
For instance, we acquired an interest in the Utah roads. We purchased 
5,000 shares at 50 cents on the dollar. The amount of that would be 



442 CREDIT M0BIL1ER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

half a million at par, but its value is ouly $250,000. These securities 
that are hypothecated are securities that cannot be disposed of in the 
interest of the road, and therefore directors have consented to carry 
them until the company, by permanent loan, or in some other way, can 
become the absolute proprietor of these securities. If these securities 
should pass into the hands of strangers it would be disastrous to the 
company. 

Q. My object is to ascertain what amount you have left available for 
the purpose of the company in meeting its obligations, or in conducting 
its operations, deducting what you have hypothecated ! — A. I should 
say nothing. . I should say we have no available securities beyond 
those hypothecated for the floating debt. 

Q. So that you cannot calculate upon any of those securities as yield* 
ing you a single dollar toward carrying on the legitimate business of 
the road! — A. I think not. 

Q. Have you no other floating debt that would be pressing on the 
company? — A. We have no floating debt except this sum of two mil- 
lion dollars, which I have named. But of course I do not refer to this 
controverted question with the Government about the interest. If this 
is an arrearage of interest, then that should be added. 

Q. In case of a contingency that might curtail the receipts of the 
road, I want to know what you could calculate upon, outside the earn- 
ings of the road, to meet such contingency ? — A. Nothing. 

Q. You know of no other resources beyond the earnings of the road, 
on which you can rely, without resorting to outside loans % — A. There 
are none. 

Q. So that in case you are overtaken by any unforeseen contingency, 
you know of no other reliance than to resort to outside loans from the 
directors % — A. I do not ; and I think that that is the practical condi- 
tion of every railroad in the United States. 

Q. In the event of any trouble of that sort arising in the future Ope- 
rations of this road, can you rely with confidence upon such outside aid 
as will carry you through without embarrassment, and without affect- 
ing the solvency of- the company ? — A. Permit me to say that that de- 
pends entirely upon our relations to the Government. If the Govern- 
ment is hostile to us it would weaken the confidence of those who are 
aiding the company. 

Q. Without reference to the Government, unless you get this large 
outside aid, of which you are not confident, you consider the company 
in rather a delicate position? — A. I should. I have already stated that 
I thought that, without the aid that has been furnished by the direct- 
ors — some ten in number, I think — we could not have met all our pay- 
ments. 

Q. And that aid may break down at any moment?— A. I do not see 
how you can say so. 

Q. I look upon the road as standing now upon its own basis ; and 
my inquiry is, whether that road, on' that basis, would be self-sustain- 
ing without this outside influence? — A. I do not think the company 
could pay that floating debt in a brief time and maintain itself. If we 
were crowded for the debt we could take the money and pay it ; but 
that might impair the efficiency of the road, and might affect the safety 
of the public. 

Q. What is your policy in leference to those lands when they come 
into your possession, if the Government turns them over to you ? — A. I 
did not mean to say that the Government had withheld the whole of 
the land. We have patents for a good deal of land. We fix a low price 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 443 

for the land, with a view to the rapid settlement of the country, because 
that makes the traffic. Our policy is to sell to actual settlers as fast as 
we can. We receive our land-grant bonds in payment and we give 
credits. 

Q. What amount of those lands has the company now at its dis- 
posal ? — A. I cannot answer that question except by inquiry from the 
land-department. We have sold about 2,900,000 acres of land. We 
nave received in payment about $1,000,000 in bonds, and there is some 
$2,000,000 remaining due to us. I cannot tell, without inquiry at the 
Interior Department, what extent of land has been assigned to us. I 
have been informed that, from a failure of some appropriation, the Gov- 
ernment surveys are not all made. 

Q. So that you cannot calculate upon realizing anything upon those 
lauds within a reasonable time f — A. JSTo, sir. The settlement on them 
is increasing the traffic of the road. We are thrown on the resources 
of the road. 

Q. All that you have to rely upon is the net profits that you are re- 
ceiving from year to year ? — A. That is all. 

Q. With that amount of debt hanging over the company, you are una- 
ble to calculate on the. feeling that may be manifested by the directors 
who have been disposed hitherto to help the company, and there is no 
other resource on which you can rely to meet those obligations pressing 
on you from day to day ? — A. I do not quite assent to your statement 
that we cannot rely upon that feeling. The experience of the past 
makes a very good assurance for the future. 

Q. But I understood you to qualify that by saying that if the Gov- 
ernment interferes that resource will be cut off? — A. If the Government 
withholds the money due on transportation, somebody has to fill up the 
gap. I do not know who will do it. 

Q, If the Government should see fit to put that road under a differ- 
ent administration, all those resources would be cut off? — A. Of course. 

Q. In that event would there be anything to sustain the company so 
that it might not be driven into bankruptcy? Is there anything upon 
which the company can rely? — A. I think not, unless the earnings in- 
crease fast enough to make up the vacuum caused by the withholding 
of the pay for Government transportation. 

Q. Have you any reasou to believe that the revenue of the road will 
increase to such an extent as to relieve you from that embarrassment ? — 
A. The revenue is increasing rapidly. 

Q. What was the net revenue of the road last year? — A. Between 
four and five millions. The gross receipts were about nine millions. 
My impression is that the gross receipts this year w r ill go over ten mil- 
lions. How low we can keep the ratio of expenses depends a good deal 
upon the iron question and depends a good deal upon the snow-storms. 

Q. What is your present organization in regard to the working of the 
road and keeping it in repair? Have y,ou a chief engineer? — A. Yes, 
sir ; we have a superintendent, who is a good engineer ; we have not a 
separate engineering organization. The superintendent of the road is 
engineer. 

Q. Have you resident engineers on the line of the road who supervise 
these repairs % — A. Yes, sir. We have all that well cared for, under his 
direction. He, however, has an assistant, who has charge of the work- 
ing operations of the roatl. 

Q. Have you a master of transportation ? — A. I think we have. I do 
not know whether he is called by that name or not. 

Q. You have a master of the road also ? — A. Yes ; we have all the 
ordinary organization of the eastern roads. 



444 CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. What do you pay your chief engineer ? — A. I think we pay him 
$10,000 a year. He is the superintendent and chief engineer. 

Q. What do you pay your master of transportation ? — A. I do not 
think we have an officer known by that name. That I think is peculiar 
to the Baltimore and Ohio and some other roads. 

Q. Who discharges those duties ? — A. They are discharged under 
Mr. Clark, the assistant superintendent. I think his title is that of 
assistant superintendent. I think he discharges the class of duties 
which, on the Baltimore and Ohio road is discharged by the master 
of the road. 

Q. And to whom do those officers of the company report ? — A. To the 
president, and also to the principal office. They report to both. Then 
we have a local auditor, who is charged with the duty of reporting. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. In connection with this floating debt I understand you to say that 
it is about $2,000,000. if this two-million note should be regarded as null 
and void ? — A. Yes/ sir ; I have treated that note as a nullity. 

Q. But if it should turn out to be the fact that there is two millions 
due by the Union Pacific Bailroad Company to the contractors of the 
Hoxie contract, then your floating debt would be $4,000,000, with the 
interest added on ? — A. There are a good many set-offs independent of 
the main question. I cannot conceive of a state .of things on which, 
from the facts existing, the Credit Mobilier can recover against the 
Union Pacific Bailroad Company on that note. 

Q. I show yon a record of the board of directors of the Union Pacific 
Bailroad Company, and call your attention to an entry made at the 
meeting of March 28, 1867, and ask you to read it to the committee. — 
A. (Reading.) "March 28, 1867. The board met pursuant to adjourn- 
ment; present, Durant, Bushnell, Tuttle, Ames, McComb, Sherman. 
The minutes of the last meeting read and approved." 

"Mr. Sherman reported as follows-: 

" The committee to which the account of the Credit Mobilier was 
referred, report: that vouchers for the items which, at our last report, 
were not furnished, have been now produced, and we have examined 
them and found them satisfactory. We therefore report that there was, 
on the 31st of January, 1867, due on the Hoxie contract the sum of 
$1,944,769.96, which, when paid, shall be a full and complete settlement 
of that contract for the construction and equipment of the road from the 
initial point to the hundreth meridian.' 7 

That is new to me, but it may not be improper to suggest that there 
may be the same disability attaching to this class of dealings that there 
was to the other, 

Q. If that action of the board of directors of the Union Pacific Bail- 
road Company is valid and based upon facts, then at the time that that 
note was given the Union Pacific Bailroad Company did owe more than 
$2,000,000, including interest, under the Hoxie contract. — A. I do not 
see the relation of that to the note. 

Q. Mr. Ham has testified before the committee in substance that this 
note was given pursuant to that order which was made by the board of 
directors. — A. I think he is mistaken. * 

Q. Then, what was the note given for! — A. I have stated that I am 
satisfied that that note was given as an indemnity to the obligors in a 
certain bond executed in the State of Pennsylvania, involving the in- 
terests of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 445 

Q. Was it not giveu for the consideration that is mentioned in that 
order ! — A. I think not. 

Q. Has this $1,994,769.96 ever been paid to the Credit Mobilier by 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company 1—1 A. I do not know that it has 
been. It may be that the Credit Mobilier had it before. 

Q. The directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company admitted 
at that time that they owed that much money to the Credit Mobilier! — 
A. Yes, but the board of directors were under disabilities. I never 
paid that money, and I do not know that it has been paid or has not 
been paid. The Union Pacific Railroad Company claims to be the cred- 
itor of the Credit Mobilier to the extent of a million dollars. 

Q. One of the officers of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, how- 
ever, who was familiar with the operations of both companies, has testi- 
fied that this money never has been paid, and that it was on account of 
it that the $2,000,000 note was given. The reason why I call your at- 
tention to this is simply to enable you to say in the light of it what you 
think is the floating debt of the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. 
That does not change my view at all. I do not believe that the Credit 
Mobilier can recover one dollar against the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company on the note account or on the book account. 

Q. Can you give any explanation of the fact that the board of direct- 
ors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company acknowledged at that time 
that amount of indebtedness to the Credit Mobilier i— A. You can form 
a conjecture as well as I can. 

By Mr. Shell ab auger : 

Q. Why should the Union Pacific Railroad Company give a bond to 
operate as a collateral for an obligation of the Credit Mobilier*? — A. 
That is a question which I have asked myself, but which has never been 
answered to my entire satisfaction. But this explanation has been 
given, that the suit involved questions affecting the liability of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company to the Credit Mobilier under alleged 
contracts between the two corporations. 

Q. That explanation is a little cloudy, is it not? — A. No; but it 
begs the whole question. But you will not forget what I said, that 
this note, an unstamped note, is in the hands of a director of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company, who holds it in the interest of that 
company, and who, I think, would give it up, but says that no object 
would be accomplished by doing so, for it is not to be denied that there 
are unsettled accounts between the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
and the Credit Mobilier. 

By Mr. Sloctjm : 
Q. That note has been charged up to construction account ? — A. That 
is mere book-keeping. That does not alter the facts or liabilities ; nor 
do I think that any book-keeping, or any resolution changing the form 
of the transaction, or charging it to any particular account, can change 
the status of the parties, or affect their legal rights. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. Is that embraced in the cost of the road, as reported by yourself 
to the Government this year ? — A. Very likely it is. I have reported 
the cost of the road as it appears on the books. I cannot ascertain it, 
except by the books. If you think that the president of a railroad com- 
pany can go behind in the history of the past, and verify such state- 
ments, then perhaps it is my duty to do so ; but I should like to know 
whether I should charge that $25,000, which a Government commis- 
sioner " struck" the company, as part of the cost of the road. 



446 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. I understood that your suggestion is that the vote of the directors 
to which the chairman has called your attention was a vote of directors 
who were, or might be, under some disabilities as the original contrac- 
tors to build the road 1 — A. Perhaps so. 

Mr. Hoar. I was calling attention to the question whether the sub- 
sequent rendering that as a part of the expense-account srf the road under 
oath to Congress, by a president and board of directors who were not 
under that disability, would, in your judgment, have any weight as an 
estoppal or recognition binding the company? 

The Witness. Not the slightest. I recognize this fact that a note, 
given by the company, if duly stamped and not outlawed, would, prima 
facie, be the subject of recovery. The assertion of a claim by the Credit 
Mobilier on that note would throw the onus of proving its invalidity on 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and would involve the whole of 
those transactions. I should prefer to have the note canceled, so that 
the onus need not be thrown on the company. 

By the Chairman : 

Q, Do you think that you would get rid of the dificulty in that way ? — 
A. I do not think that note worth a straw. 

Q. Suppose the Credit Mobilier should see fit to bring suit, not upon 
that note, but on an account, or on the acknowledgment of an account, 
or on an account stated, and then should introduce this record as evi- 
dence, where would the onus of proof rest ? — A. It' would have to come 
up in a cross-bill, but the onus would be then on the Union Pacific Bail- 
. road Company, and would involve every transaction of the Credit 
Mobilier, ab initio. 

Q. Can you make a first-class road with a 48-pound rail to the yard 1 — 
A. I should think that would be light iron. 

Q. You could not make a first-class road with it, could you ? — A. I do 
not know what you mean by a first-class road. 

The Chairman. You have been speaking as an expert. 

The Witness. I speak of a first-class road under this act. 

Q. State whether you could make such a road as is contemplated by 
this act with a 48-pound rail ? — A. I should doubt it, with the present 
traffic. 

Q. You are contemplating a large increase of traffic ? — A. There is an 
increasing traffic. I think that that is light iron for the traffic of this 
road to-day; but you do not understand me as asserting that it is 
48-pound iron. 

Q. The office of this company is in Boston ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Is there any one at the eastern terminus of the road who has au- 
thority to make arrangements on account of freight? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Has he the right to make special arrangements in regard to freight 
without consulting the office in Boston ? — A. He has the right to make 
current arrangements. He has no right to bind the company beyond 
the present. 

Q. That is to say, if somebody wished to ship a car-load or ten car- 
loads of freight over the road westward or eastward, he might make 
special arrangements % — A. Yes ; governed by a tariff which is prescribed 
for all. 

Q. But suppose he wished to make special arrangements outside of 
the tariff, has he the right to do so without consulting the heads of the 
company at Boston ? — A. He confers with the superintendent. That is 
a power too dangerous to confide, and it is not confided without limit- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 447 

ation. He can make a special rate for current business, but he cannot 
make an agreement to carry freight at a certain price for a year. 

Q. You say that, since this Wyoming Goal Company was organized, 
and this contract made with it, that that obnoxious feature in the con- 
tract has been eliminated from it by the consent of the coal company*? — 
A. By the consent of both parties. 

Q. Do you know whether your agent at the eastern terminus, who 
has the power to make special rates, is making special rates in favor of 
that Wyoming Coal Company for the transportation of coal ? — A. I 
think not, because the Wyomiug Coal Company complains that he 
treats others better than he does them. The complaint is just the other 
way. 

Q. You think that nothing of that kind is being done? — A. I am 
quite confident of it, because the Wyoming Coal Company complains 
that they are not very well treated. 

Q. The original effect of the contract with the Wyoming Coal Com- 
pany was to give them 25 per cent, advantage over all other shippers % — 
A. iso, sir. 

Q. They were entitled to a drawback of 25 per cent, on the coal that 
they shipped ? — A. Yes; and the effect of that was to discourage com- 
petition. 

Q. If the Wyoming Coal Company were shipping coal over your road 
at the general rates, and if it got a drawback of 25 per cent, from yonr 
current rates, it would give them just that much advantage over all 
other shippers, would it not ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Unless you made the same arrangement with other shippers % — A. 
We should do so; we make no discrimination between one class of 
shippers and another. 

Q. Would you not have done so under the Wyoming coal contract % — 
A. I rather think that that would be its practical effect. 

Q. Where does the Central Pacific Company get the coal that it uses % — 
A. It gets a good deal of its coal by our line, and a good deal by the 
Horn. 

Q. Then the effect of this contract was to enable this Wyoming Coal 
Company to develop its coal mines and to prevent others from develop- 
ing coal mines along the line of the road, simply because it gave them 
the advantage in the way of underselling? — A. That might have been 
the effect, and it was alleged to have been the effect ; and therefore the 
provision was abrogated. 

Q. If your agent at Omaha or Council Bluffs, at the eastern terminus 
of the road, is carrying into effect the provisions of that contract, not- 
withstanding it has been abrogated by the company, then the effect 
would be the same precisely as though the contract had never been ab- 
rogated ? — A. He could not do so; freights are payable in advance. 

Q. You spoke of what would be a reasonable profit on construction 
of this road under all the circumstances— what did you fix it at? — A. I 
did not fix it. I said that an ordinary dry- goods merchant or grocer 
would want 25 per cent, per annum on his capital, but I did not attempt 
to state a reasonable profit here, because it is beyond the range of ordi- 
nary business transactions, as being a risk and a chance. I spoke of 
building roads in Indiana or Ohio where the result is certain, and where 
it is not uncommon for the builders to make 100 per cent. ; but they 
take the risks of the future. 

Q. If you were making an estimate as to what would be a reasonable 
profit for parties to make under such a contract as this, would you make 
your calculation of percentage on the whole cost of the road % — A. That 



448 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

depends upon another state of facts. I did not express an opinion as 
to what was a fair compensation in this case. I said I thought it 
should be large, leaving aside the question of disability. 

Q. You said that the road cost about $114,000,000 ; did you mean to 
say that it cost that amount in money, or that it cost that amount in 
the securities of the company, estimating those securities at what they 
were considered to be worth at the time by the parties ? — A. I did not 
mean to go quite as far as that; I mean that that is the record on the books. 
I have stated that that is the cost of the road appearing on the books. 
It seems to be the amount of the debts and the stock of the company, 
but as to the real cost of the road I do not know what it was ; 1 have 
never been able to make the investigation. 

Q. Do you not know as a fact that that one hundred and fourteen mil- 
lions was swelled to that amount by letting the work at a higher price 
in consequence of the fact that it was to be paid for in the securities of 
the company which were at a discount % — A. Of course. If you take at 
a hundred dollars a bond that is only worth fifty-five you have got to 
charge somebody the difference. The constructing company increases 
the price to that extent. That is human nature. 

Q. The $114,000,000 is made up substantially by the capital stock, 
the two mortgage loans, the land-grant bonds, the income bonds, and 
the floating debt ? — A. Yes ; the company evidently gave that for the 
road. 

Q. I understand you to say that contractors when they agree to take 
the securities of a road in payment for their contract increase the con- 
tract rate so as to make up the difference between the value of the 
securities and the par of the securities % — A. If they are sensible men 
they do. 

Q. Do you know whether that was done in this case or not ?— -A. I 
know nothing of that ; but it may be supposed that the contractor esti- 
mated the value of the securities he was taking in lieu of money when 
he was fixing the price. 

Q. Then, can you tell how the Union Pacific Eailroad Company got 
par for its stock, as required by the law under which the company is 
organized ? — A. I did not say that it did. The company got a road 
which it accepted at such a price which covered the par of the stock. 
Whether it got that road too cheap or not you do not want me to 
express an opinion. 

Q. The practical effect of this was that the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company did not get par for its stock % — A. The practical effect of it 
was that these constructing companies got all the securities, stock and 
all, as full-paid stock, and gave the road. The practical effect of it is 
that the Union Pacific Eailroad Company paid that for the road to the 
contracting parties ; and somebody made a profit equal to the difference 
between the actual cost and the amount realized from those securities. 

Q. You have in your testimony called in question the action of the 
Government A. Of the Departments. 1 do not know of any un- 
friendly action,on the part of Congress. I spoke of departmental action. 
1 do not know that Congress has passed any law that was unfriendly. 

Q. You have said, I believe, that as soon as the road ceased to be a 
means of dispensing political patronage then the raids upon it began? — 
A. I think so. 

Q. I would like to know the persons to whom, you referred when you 
spoke of those Government commissioners who had been getting funds 
from the company in the manner which you have indicated by your 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 449 

testimony ? — A. These commissioners have been different at different 
times. 

Q. You have somebody in your mind ? — A. I have in my mind the 
demand of payment, followed, as I have always understood, by the pay- 
ment of $25,000 to a commissioner, Mr. Wendell, who was appointed 
during Mr. Johnson's administration to accept a certain portion of the 
road. 

Q. Have you any other commissioner in your mind who treated you in 
the same way ? — A. I have never heard that any other commissioner de- 
manded money, and I have never heard that any other commissioner 
made a personal profit. The allegation made to me is that they required 
expenditures on the part of the company which greatly increased its 
actual cost, and were damaging to its real interests. 

Q. Who were those commissioners to whom you now refer ? — A. I 
cannot name them ; it was before my time. 

Q. I think it is due to the commissioners and to those who appointed 
them, that the names of these commissioners should be known, so that 
we may see whether they made anything out of the company. — A. I do 
not think they made any actual profit. 

Q. Who are the parties who have thrown obstacles in the way of the 
company 1 — A. I did not assert that. I said that they made require- 
ments. 

Q. Who are the persons who made these requirements ? — A. I will 
furnish you the names ; I cannot give them to you now. 

Q. Don't you know, from the records of the company, that the Govern- 
ment has been exceedingly prompt in the acceptance of this road and 
the issuing of bonds? — A. I think it was. I think the course of deal- 
ing by the Government at first was generous. 

Q. Has not the Government been prompt all the way through in the 
acceptance of the road and the issuing of bonds ? — A. I think the Gov- 
ernment was prompt and liberal in the issuance of bonds. It is the sub- 
sequent dealings that I refer to. 

Q. The subsequent dealing ? Is that what you call these raids? — A. 
By raids upon the stock I meant, for instance, the withholding of 
money by the Treasury Department. 

Q. That is what you call a raid? — A. Yes, sir ; that is a raid. 

Q. Is that the raid you referred to !■*— A. Wlien I referred to raids, I 
meant first the raid of 1871; second, the raid of last winter, which did 
not amount to much 

Q. Stop. What was the raid of 1871 ? — A. By a raid the market value 
of the securities is depressed. 

Q. Was the raid of 1871 the assertion of the right of the Government 
to withhold the amount due the company for transportaiton and apply 
it to the interest paid by the Government on the bonds ? — A. When I 
used the term.*' raid," I used it as a market expression. 

Q. What was this first raid of the Government ? — A. I didn't say 
raids of the Government ; I said raids upon the stock ; the first raid — 
using the word "raid" as a technical term — was the assertion of the Sec- 
retary of the Treasury that he would apply all their earnings for Govern- 
ment transportation to the payment of interest, instead of one-half, ac- 
cording to the law of 1861. 

Q. That is what you refer to, then, as a raid. What was the next 
raid 1 — A. The next raid to which I referred was last winter, at the time 
it was proposed to re-open this question. 

Q. (By Mr. Slocum.) That is the one to which you alluded in your 
testimony yesterday 1 — A. Yes, sir. 
29 C M 



450 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. What was the next raid ? — A. The next is the one that re-opens 
again this question of withholding the money. I used the term raid as 
applied to the stockholders. Secretary Boutwell, of course, didn't go ou 
the road and make a raid. 

Q. You hold the Department responsible for this raid ? — -A. I think so. 
The Department is responsible for the assertion and re-assertion of this 
alleged right which causes a raid upon the market. 

Q. In other words, any claim that the Government makes — that is, 
any legal claim — upon the Union Pacific Railroad which requires the 
payment of money by them which you think you ought not to pay, you 
call a raid? — A. No, sir ; I don't mean to say that; that is your own 
language. I say that it is any assertion which the Government makes 
in respect to this vital point — that is all; only on this vital point. You 
put me in the position of saying that any claim for money which the 
Government might make would have this effect. 

Q. Well, then, if the Government makes any demand for money 
which you think you ought not to pay in law or equity, and the result 
of which is a depreciation of the value of the securities, that is a 
raid ? — A. No, sir ; what I call a raid is the assertion by the Government 
of an alleged right like the one I have referred to, the enforcement of 
which would probably lead the road into bankruptcy. When the Gov- 
ernment construes the act of 1864 in a way so totally different from the 
well-known intent and meaning of it, the assertion of that claim makes 
a raid on the stock, because it affects the market-value. 

Q. Well, there are two sides to that question? — A. Undoubtedly, sir. 

Q. Do you know a tract of land in Omaha called the " initial point " 
land ? — A. I have heard it spoken of. 

Q. Do you know how much there is of it ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know who owns it? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you ever had that matter investigated as to who was the 
owner of the land ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Is that the land upon which it is proposed to erect depots ? — A„ 
No, sir; the land upon which it is proposed to erect depots was donated 
to the company by the city of Omaha. 

Q. Is not this the land upon which it is sought to have the company- 
erect its depots? — A. There never has been any effort made to my 
knowledge, during my administration, to 'have the depot erected upon 
any land except that donated by the city of Omaha ; I never heard of 
any other. No such application was ever made to me. I ought to say, 
however, that there have been parties who desired the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company to build their depots in Iowa, on this side of the 
Missouri River, and treat that as the terminus of the road. 

Q. Who owns the land over there? — A. Well, sir, I am afraid you 
will bring me into the domain of scandal again. 

Q. We can hardly get out of the domain of scandal in these inqui- 
ries. — A. That seems to be the order of the day, but I do not want to 
introduce it. I determined, so far as the Union Pacific Railroad corpora- 
tion was concerned, that its eastern terminus was the western bank of 
the Missouri River ; and I decided also that, without an enabling act by 
the State of Iowa, the Union Pacific road had no status in that State. 
I decided this against the views of some of my colleagues in the board, 
and against a very large interest in Iowa, which sought to make the 
eastern boundary of the Missouri River the starting-point. 

Q. Did the Government directors all decide against you on this 
question? — A. At the time I made the decision, Mr. Wade, of Ohio, was 
a Government director, and I think he differed from me, as did the other 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 451 

Government directors, with the exception of Mr. Miller, of Nebraska. 
That was a fight between Nebraska and Iowa, and I tried to keep out of 
it as much as possible. 

Q. I desire to know whether the Credit Mobilier owns some land on 
either side of the river ? — A. I cannot say. 

Q. Did not the Credit Mobilier claim to own land on the east side of 
the river ? — A. I have heard it alleged that individuals connected with 
the Union Pacific Railroad had landed interests on the eastern side of the 
river which affected their position or* this terminal question. I had no 
land on either side of the river. 

Q. You say that the city of Omaha has donated land for a depot ? — 
A. Yes, sir j and has donated bonds also, and we have agreed to build 
one. 

Q. Have you built the depot f — A. No, sir. 

Q. When was that? — A. A year ago. The question has been in con- 
troversy — the question as to where our terminus is. 

Q. You have got, however, the land and the bonds 1 — A. Yes, sir $ 
and we agreed to build the depot, and we have committed no wrong by 
not doing so, because they acquiesced in it. The extent, value, and 
character of the structure must depend upon the course of business, and 
the course of the business that comes over the Iowa roads. The Iowa 
roads at one time would not recognize anything west of the Missouri 
River. 

Q. Who built the Omaha bridge ? — A. I think that was built by the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company under the act of Congress. Under the 
act the bonds were issued and the interest on them paid by the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company out of the tolls of the bridge, and the defici- 
ency the company pays out of its own earnings. 

Q. W T hen a car of freight is to go over the Union Pacific Railroad 
and it reaches this Omaha bridge, how do you manage ? — A. We send an 
engine over to the other side and take it over, charging a toll for it. 

Q. What do you charge for toll t — A. I don't know what it is under 
the present tariff. I think we take j?ro rata of the freight upon some 
agreed basis. 

Q. Can you not give some general idea ? — A. We charge tolls upon 
the bridge at the lowest rate which experience shows will maintain the 
bridge and pay the interest on its bonded debt. 

Q. Suppose a car-load of freight was started from the city of New 
York to San Francisco, how would you manage ? — A. It would be way- 
billed at the combined rates of all the companies, including the bridge. 

Q. How much is embraced in it on account of the bridge? — A. That 
varies according to the general rate of transportation, and that depends 
upon the competition between the road and the Horn and the isthmus. 
I think the bridge in respect to freight takes its pro rata share, count- 
ing it by some particular rule which is adjusted by the freight agents of 
railroads from time to time. 

Q. What becomes of the money received ? — A. It goes into the treas- 
ury of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and it is all applied on the 
bonds. 

Q. Then you treat the Omaha bridge as belonging to the Pacific Rail- 
road ? — A. Well, sir, that is the disputed question. If we decide that 
it is, then the road begins in Iowa ; and if it is not, then the road begins 
in Nebraska. 

Q. If it does not belong to the Union Pacific Railroad Company, why 
do you put the tolls into the treasury of the company? — A. Because 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company guaranteed the sterling bonds of 



452 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

the bridge, and out of these tolls it pays the interest on them. There 
would be no use in keeping up two fiscal agencies, so they are paid right 
into the treasury of the- company. 

Q % Is this bridge built on what is called the "initial point?" — A. 
Some might assert that it was, and some might assert that it was not; 
that is the disputed question. The Union Pacific Baiiroad Company 
has not intervened in this Iowa and Nebraska quarrel. 

By Mr. Slocum : 
Q. Government Director Wilson, the other day in his statement here, 
alluded to some conversation that he had with you about becoming coun- 
sel for the Union Pacific Railroad Company; I wish you would state 
your recollection of that conversation. — A. Among the reforms that 
the present administration thought they might properly introduce, was 
one touching the employment of counsel and the immense disbursements 
for counsel fees. The amounts were very large, and I deemed them ex- 
travagant. Mr. Wilson was a Government director, and I knew him to 
be a good lawyer and an able man. I stated to him that I thought we 
paid too much money to lawyers, and I suggested that, as he understood 
well the character of most of the questions in controversy, he should 
render his services as counsel to the company, because I knew that he 
would accept compensation greatly less than what we were paying for 
the same class of services. Mr. Wilson declined, alleging that he might 
be compromised by it in his position as Government director. I differed 
from him as to his opinion, and I thought it rather his duty if he could 
serve the country in that way,* but he thought not; that it would sub- 
ject him to criticism, and he declined it. That is since I became presi- 
dent. The only service which Mr. Wilson has rendered of a professional 
character, is the compilation of that document now before you, which he 
prepared at my request and for the convenience of the company, em- 
bracing all the statutes applicable to it. 

By Mr. Hoar: 
Q. You gave the committee last night some correspondence by tel- 
egraph and to some extent by mail, and in prefacing your statement 
you said that you made some personal investigation which satisfied you 
that the person who had applied to you had applied in good faith and 
was not personally concerned in any attempt to extort money from the 
road. It seems to me that justice requires that you should state a little 
more fully on that point. — A. Mr. Cowlam, who addressed to me all the 
communications upon this subject which are before the committee, was a 
stranger to me. I had never heard of him nor did I know the relations 
which his friends bore to the road. I never saw him until after the Mon- 
day when the project failed, of which he gave me warning. He came to 
New York and I saw him. My conversation with him satisfied me that 
while he was cognizant of this intended raid he was not a party con- 
spirator, and that his object in bringing the matter to my attention was 
that I might guard the interests of the bondholders and stockholders 
who would be affected by the transactions of Congress. I came to the 
conclusion, and I meant to have stated it on yesterday, that he commu- 
nicated information of which he had become informed, but that he was 
not a particeps criminis. Who the conspirators were I was anxious to 
know, and inasmuch as the newspapers have charged that there is a 
gigantic conspiracy to defraud the Government of their $27,000,000 by 
letting the road pass into the hands of the first-mortgage bondholders, 
and as I myself with other gentlemen whose only wrong is that we 
loaned the road hall a million dollars upon inadequate security to keep 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 453 

it up, are charged with being parties to this conspiracy ; and as I am 
constrained to think that it is not impossible that such a conspiracy ex- 
ists. I thought that those fomenting it should not charge it upon inno- 
cent parties, and as I had not the power to make such an investigation 
as to who these conspirators are, and you have, I thought it best to lay 
the whole matter before you. But lest this young man might think 
that injustice has been done him, I prefaced my statement by saying 
that I did not think he wns a conspirator. 

Q. What were the facts that you learned in that interview that in- 
duced you to form that opinion on the subject % — A. I am bound to say 
that I did it upon his statements, exercising my best judgment. 

Q. You stated just now something about his friend being interested 
in the road ? — A. No, sir 5 I did not say that. He stated in one of his 
first communications to me that he was private secretary to General 
Butler, and before I saw him I had become satisfied that General But- 
ler did not occupy an inimical position to the road. He had been coun- 
sel for the road in earlier days, and I h;id not been informed that he was 
unfriendly to it. I came to the conclusion that the real truth was this : 
that parties who wished to make money by stock operations by reviving 
this question, had made somebody their confidant who had given the 
information to Mr. Oowlam, and that he in good faith made the commu- 
nication to me, thinking that the conspiracy, as he called it, might be 
headed off, and that he would probably receive some compensation 
froin the company. That was the impression that I derived from my 
conversation with him. He was very explicit in his statements in the 
letters, giving the character of the combination, their influence, &c. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. In what letter did he give that ! — A. In one of the letters I sub- 
mitted yesterday. 

Q. Does he give any name ? — A. He gives no names. In the letter I 
refer to he refers to indefatigable workers, &c. I thought that if there 
is a conspiracy, a gigantic conspiracy, as the newspapers call it, to de- 
prive the Government of the money it has put into this road, it was 
right that the matter should be thoroughly investigated, so that the 
public should not think that the innocent bondholders and stockholders 
of this road are engaged in that conspiracy, and that this committee 
should find out who are engaged in it, and let the responsibility rest 
where it belongs. We protest against any interference with the road, 
and assert that we have not done anything to aid in any way the caus 
ing of this alarm among the bondholders and stockholders of the com- 
pany. I think it grows out of political agitation, and as the represent- 
ative of nearly one hundred million dollars of property of American 
citizens and of foreigners invested in this enterprise, I would like to 
suggest to this committee whether the alleged frauds of the Credit Mo- 
bilier, the alleged transactions of former directors, whether any profli- 
gate waste of money, any bribery of legislators, any improper owner- 
ship of stock by members of Congress, that may have taken place prior 
to the road passing into the hands of its present owners, affect the 
equities of a class of innocent third parties whom I represent, and whose 
interests it is my duty to take care of. 
By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Will it be in your power to procure for the committee a list of the 
names of the stockholders of the road at some recent date, and of the 
number of shares owned by each ? — A. We can do it ; it would require 
the action tff the board to order the books to be closed. 



454 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. I don't care about that being clone. — A. Well, sir, you have a list 
of the stockholders, as they then were, in the report of the road to the 
Government. 

Q. But it don't give the number of shares owned by each?— A. That 
is impossible to ascertain of a current speculative stock. 

Q. The fact which you wish to establish is that the stock has changed 
hands since certain transactions occurred, and that the persons who now 
own the stock are innocent of those transactions. Now, although a man 
may have bought stock since the 1st of March that does not appear on 
the books, yet so far as the transactions are recorded and show change 
of ownership. To that extent you have proved your point. If, on the 1st 
of March last, your books show that a Mr. John Brown who was not in 
the Credit Mobilier transaction, and who was not a stockholder at the 
time of the legislation of 1871, has bought one hundred shares of stock, 
you have to that extent established your argument, although Mr. Brown 
may have sold the stock since that date ? — A. Yes, sir, that I can do ; 
but I would like to explain to you, because the point of your question 
is material, as to the extent of the bona-fide ownership. Our books will 
not, in fact, show you whether these parties own it. Suppose Mr. Oliver 
Ames had some stock transferred to him yesterday. He might sell it 
again the same day, and there would be another purchaser, whose name 
would not appear on our books. Property of this description, subject 
to speculative dealing, and enormous transfers daily, has no settled 
ownership. Suppose a member of Congress wanted to go " short w or 
"long" on this stock, and he thought it proper not to show his name, 
he could buy and sell the stock through his broker, without his name 
appearing on the record. 

Q. You didn't own stock at the time of the Credit Mobilier trans- 
actions 1 — -A. I never owned a share of stock previous to 1872. 

Q. Well, to that extent the books will show one innocent holder of 
stock at least ? — A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Shellabargker : 

Q. State what you paid for the stock you bought. — A. I have no 
secrets; I will answer that question. I bought a large amount of stock 
at prices varying from 30 to 35. 

Q. When was that purchase made!— A. In 1872. I never bought a 
share before that year. I bought nothing lower than 30. 

Q. Was that original subscription to the stock of the company, or 
was it stock owned by other parties and which you bought? — -A. I could 
not say. The stock had lost its ear-marks, and I could not tell its or- 
igin. When a stock is once transferred it passes from hand to hand 
and it has no ear-marks. We have but one kind of stock, and that is 
common stock ; we have no preferred stock. 

Q. The twentieth section of the act of 1864 provides that the corpora 
tion thereby created, and the roads connected therewith under the pro- 
visions of that act, shall make to the Secretary of the Treasury an annual 
report, wherein he shall set forth, first, the names of the stockholders, 
and their places of residence, so far as the same can be ascertained; 
second, the names and residences of the directors and all other officers 
of the company; third, the amount of stock subscribed and the amount 
thereof actually paid in ; fourth, a description of the lines of road sur- 
veyed; fifth, the amount received from passengers on the road; sixth, 
the amount received from freight thereon; seventh, statement of the ex- 
penses of the said road and its fixtures; eighth, the indebtedness of the 
said company, setting forth the various kinds thereof; which report shall 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 455 

be sworn to by the president of the company, and shall be presented to 
the Secretary of the Treasury on or before the 1st day of July in each. 
year. That act has been changed so as to require those returns to be 
made to the Secretary of the Interior. It also requires that the Secre- 
tary of the Treasury shall transfer to the Secretary of the Interior 
these reports theretofore made, and requiring also some additional things 
to be returned. Now, the question I desire to ask is, whether these re- 
quirements of the law have from year to year been faithfully complied 
with up to this time by the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. I can- 
not answer that question of my own knowledge. The report of the 
treasurer, as adopted by the board of trustees during my administration, 
has been filed. I have no doubt it has been in former years, but I have 
no knowledge on that point. 

Q. Have you ever made any such report yourself ? You see that the 
law requires it to be sworn to by the president of the company. — A. I 
made oath to the report that was filed with the Secretary of the Interior 
in July last. Of course it related to a prior administration, and em- 
braced only two months of mine. 

Q. Did that report show the stockholders and their places of resi- 
dence so far as could be ascertained ? — A. Yes, sir ; so far as could be 
ascertained from the books. I made no inquiries outside. 

Q. Did the report that you made show the amount of stock subscribed 
and the amount thereof actually paid in! — A. I think it did. I think 
there is a paragraph in it covering that point. It didn't state how it 
was paid in, whether cash or otherwise. 

Q. Has the company received the whole amount of bonds authorized 
to be issued under the acts of Congress ? — A. I think it has. I think 
the Government bonds to the full amount stipulated have been deliv- 
ered to the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. The act of Congress requires, before the issuance of those bonds, 
that there should be certain certificates filed, as provided in the fifth 
section of the act of 1862, showing that the road was completed as re- 
quired by law 5 and that requirement is that the road should be made 
ready for the service contemplated by this act, and supplied with all 
necessary drains, culverts, viaducts, crossings, sidings, bridges, turn- 
outs, watering-places, depots, equipments, furniture, and all other ap- 
purtenances of a first-class road, the rails and all other iron used in the 
construction of the road to be of American manufacture of the best 
quality. That was all required to be done before you became entitled 
to these bonds ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And to be done upon every part of the road upon which these 
bonds were issued J — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you say you have received bonds for the entire line % — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Then the road has been dealt with, on the part of the company 
and of the Government, as a completed road ? — A. If you will note the 
exception made by the commissioners appointed by the Government to 
report upon these facts, they did report that certain heavy work was not 
completed — that we had used trestle-work in the construction, which 
we were replacing as fast as we could by solid masonry ; but they did 
not withhold their acceptance of it on that account, but treated the 
road as substantially done, treating us, in fact, with great liberality. 

Q. The Government treated the road, in issuing you all the bonds 
you would be entitled to, as a completed road ! — A. Yes, sir ; and treated 
us with great liberality. It has not, however, given us a title to all 
our lands. 



456 CREDIT MOBILJER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Now, ttieD, the inquiry I desire to make was especially this : 
whether you have paid to the Government the five per cent, of the net 
earnings that is provided to be paid upon completion of the road ? — 
A. We have not, because we have not treated the road as completed. 
We have not done the acts which the commissioners required of us to 
do before it was a completed road. We have accepted the determina- 
tion of the Government that it is an incomplete road until this work is 
done, and we have acquiesced in their withholding our land. I have 
been informed that appropriations have not been made for the surveys 
of some of these lands, and for that reason the patents have been with- 
held. If the road is completed, and we must pay the five per cent., we 
would be entitled to our lands. 

Q. How is it that you are entitled to be paid all the bonds, which could 
only be paid upon the entire completion of a first-class road in every 
particular, and yet not to be required to pay your five per cent. ? — A. 
Well, sir, for the reason that it was liberal dealing. It is difficult to 
say, when a road is complete. Every road, especially in a new country, 
is built in the first instance with trestle-work over deep gorges, and is 
not made secure with solid filling until afterwards. The Government 
did not withhold the bonds, but stated at the time " We require you to 
do so and so, to finish the road." The Government has lost nothing, 
because it had the lands, not having given us the patents, and it 
treated us with the same liberality which any individual would when 
dealing with a contractor doing a valuable service to him. But all 
these bonds were delivered before the present administration came into 
power, and we have not been called upon by the Government to do this 
specific work. 

Q. What would that work cost which you have got to do to entitle 
you to your laud and to pay the five per cent, of the net earnings of the 
road ? — A. I should think a half a million dollars, perhaps. 

Q. What is about the proportion, as near as you can state it without 
looking at the books, of the lands to which you will be ultimately en- 
titled, and that have not been patented to you ? — A. I cannot say. The 
committee of the board of which Mr. Wilson is chairman have charge 
of the question, and Mr. Poppleton, counsel for the company, is con- 
tending in the Land Office about the matter. We have supposed that 
we were fairly dealt with in respect to the land, because we cannot get 
the lands uutil the surveys were made, and the surveys cannot be made 
until they have an appropriation for it. The amount of morgtage debt 
covering ail the land, sold and unsold, is about $10,000,000 ; about 
$1,000,000 has been practically extinguished, and there are assets in 
the land department to extinguish $2,000,000 more. 

Q. What assets % — A. When a man buys a farm he makes a payment 
on account, and we take his note for the balance, agreeing to take 
payment on the note in any bond of the company ; the lower the price 
of the bonds, of course the better for him. The outstanding debt un- 
der the land-mortgage bonds in November was $8,918,000. The lands 
of the company remaining unsold amount to 11,430,948^^ acres. We 
have got on hand notes for laud sold, not counting interest, to the 
amount of $1,377,233.27, and when these notes are paid we shall give a 
title for the land to the purchaser free from any lien of any kind, and 
the mortgage,. so far as it is unpaid, will remain a lien upon the lands 
unsold. 

Q. What proportion does the mortgage bear to the probable market 
value of the land unsold? — A. That depends upon the settlement of the 
road. If, the road is not interfered with, and is permitted to go on and 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 457 

develop the country, I think the land will pay the debt ; but if we are 
interfered with, or any trick played upon us, and our money kept back, 
of course the settlement of the road will be retarded and we won't be 
able to pay it. 

Q. Then you cannot rely upon the land unsold as available assets, 
beyond the extinguishment of the land-grant mortgages ? — A. That is 
all. 

Q. You think if one squares the other it will be all right ? — A. That 
is what we are depending upou. We have sold 649,000 acres to actual 
settlers, at an average per acre of $4.20. We sell in small lots, hoping 
by this means to increase the traffic on the road. There is no danger to 
the purchaser, because there is a, trust created, by which, when he pays 
for his land, he gets a title from the company and from the trustees, 
freed from the lien of the general mortgage. 

Q. Can you tell, approximately, how the lands that have been sold 
compare in value with the unsold lands, taking both classes in the aggre- 
gate f — A. There is a good deal of this land that is good for nothing — 
the alkali laud. Two hundred miles of this land I don't suppose would 
be worth two cents, yet there are some who say the land will be worth 
something for some purposes. 

Q. How do the lands sold compare on an average in value, as lands 
are now estimated by purchasers and by the company, with those un- 
sold ! — A. We have as good lands unsold as sold. We have not received 
the price that other railroad companies have, because we have felt that 
we had better sell our lands cheap and get settlers in, and make money 
out of the traffic. We have as good lands unsold, and in fact unsur- 
veyed. You cannot tell the value of unsurveyed lands, but we have the 
hope that the lands will sell for enough to redeem that debt, and that, 
too, before a great while. There is about one-third of the land-grant 
debt paid. We have got eleven million acres, and have sold a little 
over half a million. 



Washington, D. C, January 31, 1873. 

4XEXANDEE, Hay sworn and examined. 
. By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside ! — Answer. In Philadelphia. 

Q. How long have you resided there ! — A. Well, sir, I live there in 
the winter, and in the summer I go to York, Pennsylvania, where I was 
born and have always resided, except in the winter, when I live at No. 
1939 Spring Garden street, Philadelphia. 

Q. What is your occupation ? — A. At present I am not engaged in 
any business except that of farming. I have retired entirely from busi- 
ness. 

Q. Were you in the city of Washington during the time that the leg- 
islation of 1864, in reference to the Union Pacific Railroad, was pending ? 
— A. I was. 

Q. Were you taking any interest in the passage of the act of 1864 ? — 
A. I was. 

Q. Did you receive into your possession, from any person connected 
with the Union Pacific Railroad Company, any of the bonds or stock of 
that corporation during that time ■'■? — A. I did. 

Q. What was the character of the securities that came into your pos- 
session ? — A. Late in the summer of 1865 



458 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC KAILROAD. 

Q. I am talking about 1864. — A. Then I answer that I did not. 

Q. Did you, after the pendency of that legislation, receive any of the 
bonds or stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. I did. 

Q. When did you receive it ? — A. Late in the summer of 1865. 

Q. From whom did you receive it ? — A. An order was sent me by 
Joseph B. Stewart on Thomas C. Durant, of New York, to deliver to 
me two hundred and thirty construction bonds, as I think they were 
called, of the Pawnee and Leavenworth Eailroad Company. I pre- 
sented that certificate to Mr. Durant, who honored it and referred me, 
I think, to my friend Mr. Bell, or to Mr. Crane, although they do not 
appear to remember it now, and one of them delivered me the bonds 
called for in the order. 

Q. What denomination were the bonds ? — A. One thousand dollar 
bonds — two hundred and thirty of them. My impression is that I re- 
ceived these bonds from Mr. Crane or Mr. Clark Bell. I know very well 
that I receipted for them, and I also know that I have somewhere a copy 
of the receipt I gave. 

Q. What other bonds did you receive at that time ? — A. None other. 

Q. Did you never receive any bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company ? — A. Not under your question. 

Q. Then I will put the question so broadly that there will be no mis- 
apprehension. Will you state whether at any time you received from 
any person any bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, and if 
so, when, and what amount ? — A. No, sir ; I did not. Do you mean in 
exchange for the bonds 1 brought here ? 

Q. I ask you whether at any time you received from any person any 
bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company? — A. Yes, sir; I did. 

Q. When was that, and from whom did you receive them ? — A. I 
received them from Ashbel Green, counselor-at-law, of New York, and 
from Mr. Palmer. 

Q. How many of these bonds did you receive ?— A. About 54. 

Q. One thousand dollar bonds ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When did you receive them? — A. Late in March, 1866. 

Q. Where were you when you received them % — A. I was in New 
York, on Nassau street. 

Q. How came you to get these bonds? — A. Seventy-six thousand of 
those bonds that I brought to the city for Mr. Stewart were handed to 
me for the purpose of exchange under a contract or agreement made 
between parties to take up these construction bonds and issue first- 
mortgage bonds on lands west of Fort Eiley, I think. 

Q. What was the class of Union Pacific Eailroad bonds that you 
received? — A. Land-grant first-mortgage bonds of the Kansas Pacific 
Eailroad. It was special mortgage and secured on this land west of 
Fort Eiley. 

Q. I am talking to you of the Union Pacific Eailroad. — A. I mean 
the Union Pacific. The Kansas Pacific was a branch of the Union Pa- 
cific, and the bonds I received were issued by the Kansas Pacific branch. 
They were land-grant bonds, and were secured upon 100 miles of land 
west of Fort Eiley. I believe I am right in the description of them. 

Q. I don't know that I understand you, and I will therefore ask you 
whether Joseph B. Stewart ever gave you an order on Thomas C. Durant 
for some bonds ? — A. He did. 

Q. What bonds did you receive on that order?— A. I believe they 
were temporary construction bonds issued by the Pawnee and Leaven- 
worth Eailroad Company. 1 could refresh my memory on this point 
if you will take the trouble to send to the Treasury Department and get 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UXION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 459 

my affidavit, filed there late in November, 1865, where I set out these 
bonds in fall. I have not seen one of theui since, and it is not to be 
supposed that I will remember them ; but in the communication made 
by me to Mr. McOulloch, 1 set oat the character of these bonds, and 
claimed that under the act of 1861 he had no right to issue Government 
bonds until the company took up this outstanding indebtedness — these 
very construction bonds. 

Q. What did you do with these bonds that you received from Mr. 
Durant? — A. I brought them here and deposited them with the presi- 
dent of the Merchants' National Bank of this city to the credit of J. B. 
Stewart, from which $76,000 was paid to me, and by me exchanged as I 
have already stated. 

Q. Then of these bonds that you deposited in this bank you received 
back $76,000?— A. I did. 

Q. What did you do with these bonds that you received back? — A. 
Part of these bonds belonged to me, and part to other parties who asked 
me to take possession of these construction bonds, so that when the 
time came to exchange them 1 could do so and pay over to them the 
proceeds, which I did. 

Q. How many of them did you hold on your own account ? — A. Be- 
tween twenty- five and thirty of them. 

Q. Who were the other parties who were interested in these seventy- 
six bonds ! — A. I held for my friend, Colonel Silas Seymour, of New 
York, five or ten, I cannot tell which. He was a civil engineer and con- 
nected with the Union Pacific Railroad Company. I held, I think, ten 
— I am speaking now of the construction bonds that were afterward 
exchanged — for a Mr. Keeler, who was a civil engineer connected with 
the Pawnee and Leavenworth road, and I held, 1 think, fifteen for 
Robert Latham, who was also connected with that road. I held ten for 
Oscar H. Stevens, of Michigan, now of this city. The balance belonged 
to me. 

Q. Did yon exchange those bonds ? — A. I did. 

Q. What did you get in the place of them ? — A. I got the bonds of 
the Kansas Pacific Railroad, called the Eastern Division of the Union 
Pacific Railroad. They were land-grant bonds, as I have already stated. 

Q. What did you do with the boads you thus received in exchange ? — 
A. I had made advances to Colonel Seymour, and I purchased the bonds 
from him. I purchased a part of Mr. Keeler's bonds. I had made ad- 
vances to Mr. Latham, but he paid me and I gave him the bonds. I 
delivered all the bonds due Oscar Stevens to him in this city. 

Q. I repeat the question that I started out with awhile ago : Did you 
ever receive any bonds in your possession of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company ? — A. I did not, but I received money. 

Q. Did you receive any money from the Union Pacific Railroad, and 
if so from whom? — A. Now I can explain that part of it. I did receive 
from Mr. Stewart the acceptance of Thomas C. Durant for $60,000, 
which acceptance was placed in my hands for collection. I collected 
it after a long, long time. I think when the acceptance matured I 
was paid $10,000 on it, and Mr. Durant gave me twenty bonds, which I 
took for $20,000. I cannot remember now what the bonds were. I 
placed them in the York National Bank, York, Pennsylvania, with 
which I was connected and was director. They lay there quite a while 
and one day the cashier asked me what I would take for those bonds ; I 
answered hastily that I would take 90 cents. A few days afterward he 
called my attention to the fact that $18,000 was placed to my credit, 



460 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

and that was the end of that transaction. I could not say whether they 
were the bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company or not. 

Q. Did you collect the balance of the acceptance ? — A. After a good 
while my impression is that Mr. Durant gave me twenty bonds of $1,000 
each, of what are called the " five-year bonds,' 7 of the Kansas Pacific 
Eailroad, and $10,000 in money, in settlement of his acceptance. That 
is the way, I think, it was paid. The bonds matured, I collected the 
interest on them promptly, and the money was paid me in 1871. 

Q. What did you do with this $60,000 ?— A. The $60,000 was the 
property of Mr. Stewart, less any charges I had for services. I paid it 
and settled with Durant. 

Q. Do you know of Mr. Stewart receiving a large amount of bonds 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. I do not, and never heard 
of such a thing. 

Q. Have you ever been connected with him in any other transaction 
in relation to railroad bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
other than what you have stated? — A. I was not; no ofcher transaction. 

Q. What were these bonds and moneys that you have spoken about 
placed in your hands for! — A. I have no more idea of that than any 
other gentleman in this room. For sixteen years I doubt whether there 
has been a fortnight that I have not used, or discounted, or cashed 
paper with Joseph B. Stewart's name on it. 

Q. You and he, then, are very intimately associated ? — A. Yes, sir ; I 
consider him my personal friend. 

Q. Do you know anything about the transactions out of which the de- 
livery to Mr. Stewart of these bonds and moneys grew? — A. Nothing 
more than any other gentleman whom you might meet on Broadway 
would know. 

Q. Did he ever tell you auy thing of the nature, of the transactions I — 
A. He frequently told me that they were indebted to him largely, 
and he often got advances from me. I was connected with him then. I 
believe T owned the railroad between the Baltimore depot and Alexan- 
dria at that time. I came here in 1863, and Congress granted me the 
privilege of bridging the Potomac. I did bridge it, and I paid for it. Mr. 
Stewart was connected with me in that transaction. He was secretary 
of the company, and undertook to raise the money to pay for it, and we 
did pay for it. I had had many money transactions with Mr. Stewart 
from a time previous to the granting of the charter for the bridge, and 
continuing up to day before yesterday. 

Q. Do you wish the committee to understand that you have no recol- 
lection of the character of the transaction on account of which you re- 
ceived these bonds ? — A. No, sir, 1 do not. 

Q. What, then, was it ? — A. Do you want hearsay ? 

Q. You can state what Mr. Stewart told you. — A. He told me fre- 
quently of the large interests the different parties that came to see him 
had in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, what a terrible struggle 
they were having here, and he asked my assistance and to join him as a 
peacemaker to get a bill reported satisfactory to the different parties, 
and I had conversations with him about it daily. During the short ses- 
sion of the preceding Congress we had had a very warm contest about 
bridging the river. 

Q. Do you know the consideration for which Mr. Stewart received 
those bonds? — A. I do not; I know what he told me. 

Q. Do you know anything of the negotiations that were going on ; 
were you not present at any of the negotiations that were going on in 
relation to which these bonds were applied? — A. No, sir. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 461 

Q. No information in regard to them? — A. None except what I de- 
rived from Mr. Stewart. Perhaps I may have heard other persons men- 
tion it. I had my office then in the same building with Mr. Stewart. 
I was president of a company to bridge the river, and I saw the people 
that were coming in almost hourly to see him in relation to railroad 
matters. 

By Mr. Hoar: 

Q. You say you took an order to Mr. Duraut from Mr. Stewart ? — A. 
Mr. Stewart sent me an order on Mr. Duraut to deliver to me 230 bonds. 
I have already stated that I have forgotten the character of those bonds, 
but I can furnish you that hereafter. 

Q. You think they were not the Union Pacific, Eail road bonds? — A. 
I think not; they were the temporary construction bonds of some road. 

Q. What did you do with those bonds? — A. I brought them to this 
city, walked with Mr. Stewart up to the Merchants' National Bank and 
deposited them to his credit. 

Q. Had you any interest in these bonds, or were you merely a mes- 
senger ; ? — A. I was merely a messenger at that time. 

Q. Was there any delay in the delivery of these bonds when you called 
for them ? — A. I cannot get the circumstances in my head, but I think 
not. I thiuk they were delivered to me within twenty -four hours. 

Q. Did you have any conference with Mr. Duraut about the character 
of the bonds ? — A. None whatever. He gave rue an order, or some- 
body went with me and I got the bonds. 

Q. You had no interest, then, in those bonds? — A. At the time 1 
brought them here? 

Q. Yes.— A. I had not$ unless I had made some advances which Mr. 
Stewart had said he would pay me out of these bonds. 

Q. Did you ? — A. I cannot recollect. I had almost daily transactions 
with him. 

Q. Did you go to New York on purpose for those bonds ? — A. I had 
an office in New York, and was there a great deal of my time. 

Q. Did you go there on purpose to get these bonds ? — A. O, no, sir. 

Q. Where was Mr. Stewart when he gave you the order ? — A. I think 
he sent it to me. 

Q, Sent it to you where? — A. Sent it to me in New York, or perhaps 
I was in Philadelphia, at my home. 

Q. Have you any books or memoranda of your transactions with 
Joseph B. Stewart ? — A. I have not. 

Q. Have you any book where your business loans or advances are re- 
corded ? — A. I have not. 

Q. Are you in the habit of keeping a cash-book in your business? — 
A. I am not ; I don't go in debt. 

Q. I understand other people go in debt to you ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you trust to your memory when these debts become due ? — A. 
When notes are discounted I send them to my bank or put them in my 
pocket. 

Q. What was your business in Washington aside from the construc- 
tion of the bridge ?— A. In the winter of 1864 ? 

Q. Yes, sir. — A. I had no special business here. 

Q. Did you take any interest in the passage of the act of 1864 ? — A. 
I did ; very great interest. 

Q. In what capacity did you take an interest in that matter? — A. In 
endeavoring to get a bill reported to Congress that would meet the ap- 
proval of the different parties here who were asking Congress for relief. 



462 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Were you in the employ of these parties? — A. No, sir. 

Q. In whose employ were you 1 — A. Mr. Stewart sometimes called on 
me, and so did man}' of the gentlemen whom I see in this room now. I 
don't know that I can recall their names. 

Q. Were you working gratuitously ? — A. A good deal of it was gratu- 
itous. 

Q. How much was gratuitous, and how much not I — A. Well, Mr. 
Stewart paid me handsomely for what I did do. 

Q. How much did he pay you ? — A. Twenty -three thousand dollars. 

Q. What were the services you rendered for which you received that 
amount % — A. For advances of money paid to him. 

Q. I am talking about services. — A. I didn't refer to that service. 

Q. Confine your attention now to the passage of this act of 1864. You 
say you took an active interest in getting that act passed ; at whose 
instance did you take that interest? — A. At Mr. Stewart's instance. 

Q. Anybody else's % — A. Thomas C. Durant. 

Q. Anybody else's ? — A. John D. Perry. 

Q. Anybody else's ? — A. A California gentleman — Mr. Huntington. 

Q. Who was Mr. Huntington ? — A. I believe he was vice-president of 
the Central Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. What relations did Mr. Durant have toward the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company ? — A. I think he was vice-president. 

Q. Did anybody else solicit your services? — A. A great many others. 

Q. Who were they ? — A. I don't remember. I think almost every per- 
son I see here now has spoken to me about it. 

Q. A great many persons interested in the Union Pacific Eailroad 
asked you to assist them ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you do so? — A. To the best of my ability. 

Q. Did you do it for nothing ? — A. I did. 

Q. Did it for nothing ? — A. I did, except the payment by Mr. Stewart. 

Q. How much did Mr. Stewart pay you on account of the services 
you rendered at the request of these gentlemen ? — A. I am unable to 
answer that question. I cannot begin to say whether it was $5,000 or 
$30,000. I had made large advances to Mr. Stewart, and I cannot now 
separate the two. 

Q. Did you get these bonds on that account ? — A. Part of them. 

Q. How many did you get for your services? — A. Ten or twelve thou- 
sand dollars of them. 

Q. Is that all you received of them ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. How much more? — A. I got a considerable part of the draft foi 
$60,000 for services and advances made. I cannot separate them. 

Q. Can you not give the committee an idea of how much you received 
for services ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you paid any sums of money for your services rendered to 
the Union Pacific Eailroad in this behalf? — A. I think so. 

Q. How much ?— A. Perhaps $4,000. 

Q. Who paid you that money ? — A. It was not paid to me. It was 
paid for my stock subscription in this wise : Mr. Durant asked me to be- 
come a subscriber to the Union Pacific Eailroad. I told him I would do 
so, and I did subscribe for tw T enty shares, at $1,000 each, which I held 
sntil the fall of 1867, when I sold my stock. 

Q. To whom? — A. I think to the Credit Mobilier. I declined taking 
any interest in the Credit Mobilier to the amount of my stock, declined 
to have anything to do with the arrangement that was about being 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 463 

made, and I took steps in New York to enjoin them and they bought 
me out. 

Q. How much did they pay you to get rid of you! — A. They paid me 
what I asked ; I thiuk it was $4,000. 

Q. Who bought you off? — A. I don't know. Mr. Cram paid me. I 
know I got my pay. 

Q. When did that occur?— A. I think it was the fall of 1867. 

Q. You cannot tell the committee, then, the amount of money you 
received for the services you rendered at the request of these gentle- 
men ? — A. I cannot. I would do it if I could. 

Q. Will you tell the committee the character of the services you ren- 
dered ! — A. Yes, sir. They arose from the great desire to fix up a bill, 
as I said before. I spoke to several members of the committee — I knew 
almost every Senator and Eepresentative at that time — and they as- 
sisted me in getting a bill framed. 

Q. The service you rendered was in assisting in the preparation of a 
bill that was to be presented to the committee ? — A. Yes, sir. I was 
assisting in preparing the bill and endeavoring to talk to members 
whenever I had an opportunity. We wished certain clauses put in the 
bill. There was a great effort made here in regard to the Government 
directors — a great desire to get them taken out. I don't know but what 
they were in one or two of the roads. 

Q. Were you employed to get the bill so shaped as that there would 
be no opposition in Congress to it?— A. No, sir. My only employment 
grew out of my acquaintance with Mr. Stewart. He was very well 
known to me, and frequently called on me in regard to it. Neither Mr. 
Durant nor anybody else had any dealings with me in connection with 
the road. 

Q. You say they had nothing to do with you ? — A. Not so far as the 
payment of money was concerned. 

Q. Who did you get the money from ? — A. From Mr. Stewart. 

Q. Did Mr. Stewart merely employ you, and these parties talk to you 
about it? — A. There was no employment about it. Mr. Stewart and 
myself were warm personal friends ; we were constantly together ; our 
offices were adjoining. I was president and he was secretary of a com- 
pany to build a bridge above here, and he asked me for my assistance 
to see that man and do this, and I did it cheerfully. He said I would 
be well paid, and he did pay me all I asked for. 

Q. How much did he pay you ? — A. 1 cannot say. 

Q. Have you any books or papers throwing any light upon these trans- 
actions. 

A. I think there is a copy of the receipt I gave for the 230 bonds in 
my safe. I think also I have a memorandum of the different parties 
that I gave these bonds to and what I advanced on them. I will say 
here that when the messenger found me in Baltimore on Monday night, 
I had then a case on trial in the United States court, and I urged him 
to let me go to New York and look for these papers, but he declined. 
T have been anxious up to this hour to go there. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. When did you leave the city of Washington ? — A. What do you 
mean ? 

Q. Did you leave the city of Washington since this committee began 
the investigation ? — A. 1 left Washington for New York last Sunday 
night a week ago, and went to Philadelphia. I left Philadelphia for 



464 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

New York on Monday night, and returned to Philadelphia from New 
York on the following Saturday evening. 

Q. Did you and Mr. Stewart leave this city together? — A. No, sir; 
Mr. Stewart met me in Baltimore to try my case there. I saw him also 
in New York. 

Q. Did Mr. Stewart and you register in Baltimore together? — A. I 
met Mr. Stewart in Baltimore Monday, and asked him to breakfast with 
me; after breakfast we went to court, and returned to the hotel in the 
evening. I went to bed, and they brought me out of bed here. 

Q. Did you leave your baggage in Baltimore? — A. I had only t.wo 
shirts with me, and I brought them here. I have been urging them to 
let me go back and get some more. 

Q. I will ask you to state whether you and Mr. Stewart did not leave 
here in order to avoid a subpoena from this committee? — A. We did not. 

Q. I will ask you whether you didn't leave your baggage here and go 
to Baltimore in order to avoid a subpoena? — A. I did not; my baggage, 
consisting of a trunk full of papers of a case in the Supreme Court, I left 
here. 

Q. Do you know anything of the deposit of $169,000 of bonds of the 
Union Pacific .Railroad, in this bank of which you have spoken, by Mr. 
Stewart? — A. Never heard of such a thing. 

Q. Do you remember the investigation which was had once into the 
affairs of that bank? — A. I know there was an investigation, and I have 
good reason to remember it. 

By Mr. Hoar: 

Q. I understand you to say that you had received from Mr. Stewart, 
about the time of the passage of this legislation of 1864, a sum of money 
or bonds partly for advances and partly for services; is that so? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. How much, according to your best judgment, was the value of all 
you received from him ? — A. I cannot begin to name it. 

Q. I do not speak now of the payment of debts contracted in the 
course of business, but I speak of money which you received either as 
compensation for services or as a compensation for business advances? — 
A. 1 could not say, and I will tell you why 

Q. It is not necessary to tell me why. Did you receive from Mr. 
Stewart in that year, either as a compensation for services or for ad- 
vances made to him, an amount equal to $50,000? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you receive $30,000?— A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you receive $20,000?— A. Possibly $20,000; I think Mr. 
Stewart paid me $15,000 or $20,000. I discounted and bought a great 
many bonds from him. 

Q. How much of that do you think was for services? — A. I think that 
Mr. Stewart paid me at least $10,000; I would say more than $10,000. 

Q. For services in connection with the legislation of 1864? — A. I 
shall not place it exactly on that ground. I was doing him many ser- 
vices; I was raising money for him continually. 

Q. 1 am speaking now of the services you rendered in securing the 
legislation of 1864. — A. I cannot state that; I put no value on those 
services. If he had never paid me anything I should not have said a 
word about it. 

Q. Were those services merely those conversations with members of 
Congress? — A. That is all. 

Q. W r hat was your occupation in life at that time? — A. I had retired 
from manufacturing at the breaking out of the war. Just before that I 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 465 

was connected with the India-rubber litigation with Horace H. Day and 
others. 

Q. Were you a lawyer or a merchant? — A. 1 was not a lawyer. I 
was raised a hatter and worked as a hatter 

Q. What was your occupation in 1864 ? Be good enough to confine 
yourself to the questions asked, unless there is some good reason for not 
doing so. — A. Well, sir, I was a gentleman. 

Q. What were these clauses in the act of 1864 which you had special 
interest in? — A. I remember there was great controversy over the 
eleventh section of the act of 1864. 

Q. What did it relate to ? — A. It was in relation to allowing the com- 
pany to issue first-mortgage bonds. 

Q. Were not your services in regard to the act of 1864 mainly to 
secure the subordination of the Government lien to the first-mortgage 
lien ? — A. Partly they were. 

Q. What else were they for ? — A. To speak to members of Congress 
and urge them to vote for the bill as reported. I believe I knew almost 
every member at that time. 

Q. Were the advances you made to Mr. Stewart made to him direct, 
or were they made to other persons at his request ? — A. To him in all 
cases, unless to Mr. Oscar H. Stevens, who was assistant secretary of 
our railroad company. 

Q. Were you charging Mr. Stewart for these loans ? — A. They were 
only for ten days or two weeks. I don't know that I was. 

Q. You say Mr. Stewart paid you an amount equal to fifteen or per- 
haps twenty thousand dollars for services and advances. Now, did you 
make these advances in all cases to Mr. Stewart in person ? — A. Always, 
unless it was to Mr. Stevens to pay the contractor for the bridge. 

Q. Do you wish to state and affirm as a fact that, out of the fifteen or 
twenty thousand dollars, or whatever the sum was which Mr. Stewart 
reimbursed to you, $5,000 was compensation for advances of money ? — 
A. I think a heap more than that; but I am unable to state more fully 
than I have already stated. 

Q. Do you think it was equal to $5,000 ? — A. I do. 

Q. Did you take Mr. Stewart's note ? — A. No, sir. What was the use 
of his note ? Sometimes I did and sometimes I didn't. 

Q. Was Mr. Stewart in 1864 a person of responsibility and solvent? — 
A. He was in 1864. 

Q. A person who would be able to borrow $100,000 on his own 
security? — A. I would have given him $50,000 without any other 
security than his word. 

Q. What did you mean by asking "What's the use of his note?" — A. 
He never had any real estate. If he didn't want to pay he wouldn't 
pay me whether I had his note or not. 

Q. Your confidence for being reimbursed in those loans was in Mr. 
Stewart's integrity and not his property? — A. I am speaking of Mr. 
Stewart's integrity. My confidence was unlimited in his integrity, com- 
mencing back 16 or 17 years ago, when he had the ability to meet it. He 
had my confidence then; he has it now; that is, as to his integrity. 

Q. Was he a man of general credit in the community for pecuniary 
responsibility; I do not speak about his personal character, but about 
his general credit in the community ? — A. I believe it was as good as 
any one's. 

Q. Do you know or were you at that time informed of the payment to 
any member of Congress, of either House, of any sum of money or thing 
of value, or the promise or engagement to pay to any member of Con- 
30 c M 



466 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

gress of either House, of any sum of money or thing of value, directly 
or indirectly, to aid or to procure the passage of the legislation in rela- 
tion to the IJnion Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. I do not. 

Q. You fully negative all that question? — A. All of it. I do not 
know that I can say any more. I do not know of any such thing. 

Q. Do you know of the payment or were you informed at the time of 
any payment to any person connected with the press, either as proprie- 
tor, correspondent, or reporter, of any money or thing of value, or the 
promise of any such payment, directly or indirectly, to obtain their 
influence or to withhold their influence in regard to the passage of the 
act of 1864 ? — A. I do not ; unless this Mr. W. J. Keeler was writing 
for the press, although I do not know. 

Q. Were you informed that these persons for whom you received some 
bonds, as you have described, received them in compensation for services 
in aiding this legislation? — A. I know they were all interested in getting 
the act through. 

Q. What consideration did these parties give for these bouds ? — A. 
I do not know. I asked no questions. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Were any moneys or bonds paid you by the Central Pacific Rail 
road Company ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Or anybody connected with it ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you get anything from Mr. Huntington? — A. No, sir. A short 
time before the passage of the bill in the House of Representatives he 
stopped at my room, and I said to him that the vote was so strong for 
that bill that they would not call the yeas and nays on it on the final 
passage. He slapped me on the shoulder and said if the bill passed in 
that way he would make me a present. I met him in New York a day 
or two afterward, the bill having passed in that way, and I reminded 
him of his promise, and he said he would see me in the afternoon. I 
didn't see him in the afternoon and I haven't seen him since. 

Q. You didn't get anything from Huntington ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Or from anybody else on that account ? — A. Not one dollar ; not 
even a cigar. 

Q. How did you come to exchange those bonds that you received in New 
York? — A. Myself and others were notified that the bonds were to be 
exchanged. 

Q. Was it a part of the original understanding that they were to be 
exchanged? — A. No, sir. 

Q. How was it that one set of railroad bonds were exchanged for 
another ? — A. That was a very complicated matter, and I will endeavor 
to explain it. These bonds I brought from New York were exchangeable 
on their face for something, I don't know what. When the first section 
of the Kansas Pacific Railroad, which had been called the Pawnee and 
Leavenworth road, had been accepted, the owners and holders of these 
certificates claimed that under the act of Congress of 1864, before the 
Government issued its bonds, the road should be required to take up its 
temporary construction bonds. Mr. Perry and his secretary were on 
here for the purpose of getting the Government bonds on so much of the 
road as had been accepted, and had filed the necessary affidavits with 
the Secretary of the Treasury. Learning that fact I immediately went 
to Mr. McCulloch and stated to him all the facts in relation to these 
construction bonds. He asked me to write him a letter setting forth 
all the particulars, I did so that afternoon and made affidavit to it. 
That had the effect of stopping for the time the issuing of the Govern- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 467 

merit bonds, and brought about an arrangement between the parties in- 
terested in the Kansas Pacific road and the holders of the construction 
bonds by which those bonds were exchanged, as I have heretofore 
stated. 



Washington, D. C, February 1, 1873. ' 
Webster Snyder sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Have you been at any time in the employment of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company • and, if so, when did your employment begin, 
and in what capacity % — Answer. My employment began in October, 
1865, as general freight and ticket agent, and I was employed in that 
capacity till the year 1867. 

Q. Had you any other employment under the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company % — A. From May, 1867, to July, 1869, I was general superin- 
tendent of the road. 

Q. Where do you now reside ? — A. In Jamaica, Long Island. 

Q. Do you know of any money having been paid to any Government 
officials by the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. No officials that 
I know of, except the Government commissioners. I used to pay them. 

Q. What Government commissioners did you pay money to 1 — A. I 
think I paid them all. 

Q. Give the names of those to whom you made payments ? — A. I 
think all the commissioners who acted in accepting the road • I paid 
them mileage, &c. 

Q. Hid you pay anything except mileage to any of them 1 — A. I never 
paid anything except for mileage and services (whatever they were en- 
titled to) but to one. 

Q. Who was that one ? — A. That one is dead. 

Q. What was his name ? — A. Cornelius Wendell. 

Q, How much did you pay him? — A. Twenty-five thousand dollars. 

Q. For what purpose or on what account did you pay him that 
825,000 ? — A. He was appointed Government commissioner, and declined 
to act. 

Q. In what respect did he decline to act ? — A. He declined to take 
any action as Government commissioner. 

Q. Where was he when he declined to act ? — A. I think it was at 
Bryan, in Wyoming Territory. 

Q. Had he gone there pursuant to his appointment? — A. Yes,* I 
presume so. 

Q. When was this? — A. In November or December, 1868- I have 
forgotten which. 

Q. State to the committee what interview or interviews, conversation 
or conversations, you had with Mr. Wendell on this subject ? — A. Mr. 
Wendell was there several days, and looked over the road, but did not 
appear to pay much attention to it, or to anything else connected with 
the road. 

Q. What did you do ? — A. I did not do much • I talked with him 
when I met him. 

Q. What did you say to him in that connection ? — A. That I should 
like him to take action or to do something. We had applied at that 
time for the acceptance, I think, of eighty miles of the road, and the 
other commissioners were there ready to act. I said that the company 



468 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

had spent its money in good faith, and that he was delaying us and 
keeping the company out of millions of money, which I thought was 
unjust and unfair. 

Q. Did you make any proposition to him with relation to this matter 
in order to induce him to act ? — A. I did not. 

Q. Did he make any proposition to you ? — A. He did. 

Q. What was that proposition ?— A. To pay him $25,000. 

Q. How much of the road had you desired to have accepted at that 
time ? — A. Eighty miles, I think. It may have been but sixty, but my 
impression is that it was eighty. There had been some delay in appoint- 
ing a successor to Dr. White, and Mr. Wendell arrived some days after 
the other commissioners. 

Q. Are you quite certain that it was eighty miles of the road that 
you desired then to have examined and accepted ? — A. I am not posi- 
tive, but that is my impression. 

Q. I will show you a statement from the Treasury Department show- 
ing the dates of acceptance of the road and of the issuing of the bonds. 
On the 21st October, 1868, there was twenty miles accepted, and $640,- 

000 of bonds issued ; on. the 19th of November, 1868, there was twenty 
miles accepted, and $640,000 of bonds issued ; on the 5th December, 
1868, there was forty miles accepted, and on the 7th December there 
was $1,280,000 in bonds issued, and on the 12th December there was 
twenty miles accepted, and $640,000 in bonds issued. If you are right 
in stating that this occurred in November or December, 1868, is it pos- 
sible that this statement from the Treasury Department is correct, or 
is it possible that there could have been either eighty or sixty miles of 
road then to be accepted ? — A. I think we had sixty at the time. I am 
pretty positive we had sixty, and my impression is we had eighty. 

Q. Do you recollect whether there was more than one report made 
by the commissioners favoring the acceptance of this road about that 
time? — A. Yes, sir; I think there were two reports at the same time. 

Q. From this statement by the Treasury Department it seems that 
one report was made on the 5th of December for forty miles, and an- 
other on the 12th of December for twenty miles. Was it with reference 
to the forty miles or to the twenty miles that you were asking to get 
the report of acceptance by these commissioners ? — A. I wanted to get 
a report for what work was done at that time. I cannot say that it was 
for forty miles, or for sixty miles, or for both. I think it was for both. 

1 think we had more than sixty miles completed when Wendell came 
out. 

Q. Then, four days thereafter, on December 16th, twenty miles more 
were accepted 1 — A. Yes. 

Q. And then, seven days after that, on the 23d of December, 1868, 
twenty miles more were accepted. Were there separate reports for each 
acceptance ? — A. I think so. 

Q. You say that Wendell proposed to you that if you would give him 
$25,000 he would act?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did he say that he would make a favorable report f — A. No, sir. 

Q. He simply proposed to act % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you take a receipt from him for the $25,000 % — A. I did not. 

Q. Did you make any private memorandum with reference to it to 
show to your superiors ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You said a moment ago that you had paid money to all of those 
commissioners. Did you pay to any commissioners, other than Mr. 
Wendell, any sum of money in excess of mileage and services ? — A. Not 
to my knowledge. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 469 

Q. In what way did you compute the mileage 1 — A. From their resi- 
dences. 

Q. At what rate ? — A. Ten cents per mile. 

Q. At what rate did you compute their services ? — A. Ten dollars per 
day. 

Q. Did you take receipts from all other commissioners for the mileage 
and services ! — A. I did. 

Q. And returned them to the office? — A. Yes; to the office at 
Omaha. 

Q. Do you know of anything of value, either bonds, stocks, or any- 
thing of that kind, "being given to any other of these commissioners % — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you any information that anything of that kind was done ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you never pay any money to Dr. White, or deliver to him any 
bonds or stocks, on account of the acceptance of the road, other than for 
mileage and services ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever pay, or cause to be paid, indirectly, any sum of money ? 
or deliver anything of value to any Government official, other than you 
have stated here in your examination I — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you any information that anything of that kind was done % — 
A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Where was this payment to Mr. Wendell made % — A. The payment 
was made at Omaha. 

Q. You and he had, both of you, been in that vicinity for some time 
before the payment % — A. No, sir ; we were at Bryan, at the western end 
of the road. 

Q. How long had you been in Mr. Wendell's company before that pay- 
ment was made ? — A. I do not know ; probably two weeks. 

Q. What officials of the road, or persons active in the management 
of its affairs, had been with you during those two weeks %— A. Mr. T. O. 
Durant was there part of the time. He was vice-president and general 
superintendent. 

Q. Had you authority to pay out money on your own discretion to the 
amount of $25,000 %— A. I think so. 

Q. By what authority did you make this payment to Mr. Wendell? — 
A. On my own responsibility. 

Q. Did you have any other authority but your own for doing it % — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. Name all the persons with whom you conversed about the same 
before you made the payment. — A. I do not think I conversed with any- 
body except Dr. Durant. 

Q. Did you converse with Dr. Durant % — A. I did. 

Q. He was vice-president of the company % — A. Yes. 

Q. Who was then president % — A. Oliver Ames. 

Q. The vice-president was performing the active duties of the presi- 
dent, so far as giving directions about the construction of the road, was 
he not ? — A. He was the general manager. 

Q. What conversation did you have with Dr. Durant concerning that 
payment before you made it % — A. I cannot remember the exact words. 
I told Mr. Durant that Mr. Wendell had declined to act, and had made 
this proposition to me. That is the substance of it. 

Q. What did Dr. Durant say?— A. Dr. Durant said he would not 
authorize it. 



470 CKEDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

Q. What then ! — A. That is all I remember, particularly. 

Q. Did Dr. Durant forbid it ?— A. I think he did. 

Q. If Dr. Durant had forbidden you to make such a payment as that 
would you have regarded your authority as superintendent to have 
warranted you in doing it in defiance of his objection? — A. There was a 
particular exigency in the affairs of the road at that time. 

Q. That is not an answer to the question. Had you authority as 
superintendent of the road to expend $25,000 of its money against the 
emphatic objection of the vice-president? — A. Mr. Durant objected to 
it, and I assumed the responsibility. 

Q. You do not answer my question. — A. I think that if he had posi- 
tively forbidden it, I might have conferred further with somebody else. 

Q. Be good enough to answer the question, whether you considered 
you had authority which warranted you in paying $25,000 of the money 
of the company for such a purpose against the emphatic and serious 
objection of the vice-president ? — A. I cannot answer it more definitely 
than I have done. 

Q. Did you consider that you had authority to pay $25,000 of the 
money of the company for such a purpose against the emphatic and 
serious objection of the vice-president ?— A. Hardly. 

Q. Did Dr. Durant say anything other than that he would not author- 
ize it ? — A. We had some conversation. I have forgotten what he said. 
That was the substance of it. 

Q. Did you understand him to forbid it, or prohibit it, if you chose 
to do it without his authority ? — A. No. I did not understand him as 
absolutely forbidding it. 

Q. Were you ever called to account and rebuked for that payment by 
your superiors in the administration of the road ? — A. I had some con- 
versation with Mr. Durant in relation to it, and I had a letter in rela- 
tion to it from Mr. Oliver Ames, the president of the company. 

Q. Have you got that letter? — A. I have nofc. 

Q. Do you know where it is ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Can you state the substance of it ? — A. The substance of it was, as 
near as I can remember, that I had done wrong in paying that amount 
of money. 

Q. Were you removed from your office as superintendent ? — A. is" ot at 
that time. 

Q. How long did you continue in office after the payment of that 
money? — A. I think this was in November or December, 1868. I was 
removed from office in July, 1869. 

Q. By whom? — A. By General Dodge and O. S. Bushnell. 

Q. What cause was assigned for your removal ? — A. I do not know 
that any was. 

Q. Had you any reason to believe, at the time, that you were removed 
for making the payment to Mr. Cornelius Wendell? — A. It was never 
so intimated to me. 

Q. Who was present besides you and Mr. Wendell when you paid 
him this money ? — A. Nobody. 

Q. State the names of all the persons connected with the company to 
whom you reported that payment after you had made it ? — A. I cannot 
do that. 

Q. In what form did you make your report of the payment, or to 
what account was that $25,000 charged? — A.: I think it went to the- 
account of contingencies, or possibly to the account of construction. 

Q. Did you inform Mr. Durant that you had made the payment im- 
mediately after you had done it? — A. I cannot say. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 471 

Q. Have you any doubt that Mr. Durant knew at the time you did 
it ? — A. I do not think Mr. Durant was at Omaha at the time I made 
the payment. 

Q. Have you any doubt that Mr. Durant knew it was done, at the 
time, or immediately after ? — A. The matter was pretty notorious why 
Mr. Wendell came out to that country. Mr. Durant probably heard of 
it. I do not think he heard of it directly from me. 

Q. Did you report it to anybody connected with the road ? — A. That 
I do not recollect. 

Q. Where did you get the money that you made the payment with ? — 
A. I borrowed money from the Omaha National Bank, in a draft on 
New York. 

Q. In your own name ? — A. Yes, sir ; they let me have it. 

Q. Did you give the credit of the company, or of anybody connected 
with it, to the Omaha bank? — A. I did subsequently. At the time I got 
the money I gave my own name. 

Q. You had no indorsement or security from any quarter ? — A. Not 
at that time. 

Q. You borrowed $25,000 from the Omaha National Bank, on your 
sole account, in the form of a draft on New York ? — A. Yes. 

Q. What contract was it charged to, if it was charged to construc- 
tion ? — A. I cannot say. I was not employed in the construction depart- 
ment. 

Q. Under whose contract was the construction then going on ? — A. I 
presume under the Oakes Ames contract. I do not know. 

By Mr. SWANN : . 

Q. Who authorized you to borrow this money from the bank? — A. 
Nobody. I told the cashier of the company to arrange with the bank. 

Q. You did that on your own responsibility, too ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Had you any conversation with Mr. Wendell at the time of this 
transaction as to his reason for withholding his assent at the acceptance 
of the road. Was there any objection on his part to the manner in 
which the road had been completed ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. He stated to you flatly that he wanted $25,000 ?■— A. He did. 

Q. And he gave you no reason why he wanted that money ? — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. Or whether the completion was satisfactory to him or not ? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. He wanted the money in consideration of his coming to your ar- 
rangement I — A. He wanted it as blood. 

Q. And you gave it to him as blood ? — A. I did. 

Q. Did he tell you what he was going to do with the money % — A. He 
did not. 

Q. How could you reconcile it to yourself as an officer of that company 
to hand over that large amount of money to a person who had no right 
to make the claim? How did you justify yourself to your superiors 
when it was objected to by the vice-president ! — A. It was absolutely 
necessary that something should be done. 

Q. And you considered yourself the judge of that? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. So that he could have taken $50,000 or $100,000 from the treasury 
if he had thought proper? — A. I assumed the responsibility of the 
$25,000. 

Q. Would you have assumed the responsibility of a larger sum if 
necessary ? — A. It would have depended on the situation. 

Q. You considered yourself authorized to spend just as much money 



472 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

as was necessary to accomplish your purpose ? — A. I cannot say that it 
was my individual purpose. 

Q. You were acting on your individual responsibility? — A. I was 
acting on my responsibility as an officer of the road. 

Q. But without reference to the instructions of the company ? — A. 
The president and directors were in Boston and New York, and I was 
800 or 900 miles west of the Missouri Biver. 

Q. And you considered this simply as blackmailing ? — A. Precisely ; 
nothing more or less. 

Q. When he got that money he came promptly into the traces and 
did what he stipulated to do? — A. He did not stipulate to do anything, 
except to take some action. I did not have the money at the time, and 
could not get it till I went to Omaha. 

By Mr. Shellabargker : 

Q. Who were the other commissioners who were there along with 
Mr. Wendell?— A. F. P. Blair andN. P. Buford. 

Q. Did they show any reluctance in the discharge of their duty on 
that occasion ? — A. Not a particle. 

Q. They were ready to make a report without any influence? — A. 
They had been ready to make their report several days before Mr. Wen- 
dell got there. 

Q. What time did this transaction take place ? — A. In November or 
December, 1868. 

Q. Is there not any entry on any book or any memorandum, to which 
you could apply to fix the exact date ? — A. None in my possession. 

Q. Can you fix in your memory the exact date of the payment of this 
$25,000 ?— A. I cannot. 

Q. Can you tell which of these two months it was in ? — A. I cannot 
tell positively. I think it was in December. 

Q. Can you say whether it was before or after the holidays ? — A. Be- 
fore, I think. 

Q. Can you state what part of the line it was that this work was 
completed upon which Wendell declined to report upon ? — A. I think it 
was between the eight hundred and eightieth and nine hundred and 
eightieth mile-post, or there somewhere. 

Q. Where did these mile-posts start ? — A. They began at Omaha. 

Q. That would take it very near to the west end of the Oakes Ames 
contract? — A. I am not familiar with the Oakes Ames contract j I 
know nothing about it ; it would run about nine hundred miles west. 

Q. Then this was under the Oakes Ames contract ? — A. Part of it 
may have been. My impression was that it was between nine hundred 
and nine hundred and eighty miles. 

Q. Where were you located at the time of this transaction ? — A. I 
think at Bryan, Wyoming Territory. Bryan is about six or eight miles 
west of where the road crosses Green Biver. 

Q. Was that where the work was that you wanted Wendell to 
accept ? — A. It was either immediately east or immediately west of it ; 
that was our western business terminus. 

Q. Did the work which you wanted him then to accept include the 
point where Bryan is ? — A. I have forgotten. 

Q. What railroad structures are now on that road that were not there 
in December, 1868 ? — A. I have no idea ; I have not been there for four 
years. I was there about a month after the commissioners examined 
that road, and I have not been there since. 

Q. Do you not know, as a matter of fact, that there have been addi- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 473 

tional works made along that part of the road since its acceptance by 
Wendell in order to complete the work ? — A. No, sir, I do not — not to 
any extent. Some little work was done out there while I remained on 
the road. 

Q. What was that little work u ? Describe it. — A. We may have put 
up an engine-house and some section-houses, and probably an eating- 
house. 

Q. How many engine-houses have been put up there since that trans- 
action, and where were they put up % — A. I cannot say. 

Q. What increase of equipments has been made since that accept- 
ance ?— A. I have no idea. 

Q. What besides engine-houses have been put up since? — A. I can- 
not say. 

Q. Have there been any drains or culverts made since $— A. I cannot 
say as to that. I have not been there for four years. I presume that a 
good deal of work has been done ; but I do not know. 

Q. Can you state whether that road was then so completed with all 
permanent structures, including drains, culverts, viaducts, crossings, 
sidings, bridges, turnouts, watering-places, depots, equipments, furni- 
ture, and all other appurtenances, as to constitute it a first-class road at 
that time ? — A. I think it was. 

Q. In all these respects ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then why has work been done since ! — A. Work is constantly 
done on every road. 

Q. I am speaking now of permanent structures, so as to complete the 
road. An engine-house is part of the requirements of the law. You 
say that some have been made since? — A. The equipments and build- 
ings of that time were adapted to the business necessities. 

Q. Were they-not temporary structures % — A. The side-tracks, bridges, 
&c, were all good, permanent structures. 

Q. Did not Wendell say to you that that road was not furnished as 
a first-class road at that time % — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did neither of the other two commissioners say so ? — A. ETo. sir. 

Q. The law requires that there shall be a certificate of the commis- 
sioners to the effect that the road is completed as required by law, be- 
fore these subsidies shall be issued to the company. Were you not 
advised that the certificate of two commissioners would do without the 
signature of the third — that a majority of the commissioners was 
enough ? — A. I did not so understand it. 

Q. Did you consult with the other commissioners about that time, as 
to whether it was necessary to buy over the third one ? — A. I did not. 

Q. Were the other two willing to sign, a certificate of completion ? — 
A. I think they were. 

Q. Did you ask them ? — A. I do not know that I did ask them. The 
road was built as a first-class road. There was no reason why they 
should not sign a certificate. 

Q. Did you report to the President of the United States, or to the 
Government, or to any department of it, the fact that this man refused 
to act ? — A. I did not. 

Q. How soon after you paid this man did you report the fact to your 
superiors in the government of this road 1 — A. I cannot say. 

Q. About how long? — A. I cannot say; I have no idea. 

Q. Did you do it within a month ! — A. I think probably. 

Q. Did you make an entry of it in any book ; and, if so, what accouut 
was it charged to 1 — A. The voucher was made in favor of the cashier 
for that amount of money. I think it was charged on to construction, 



474 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

but I cannot say. I told the cashier to arrange the matter with the 
bank, and I gave him a voucher for the money. 

Q. In squaring your accounts as an officer of the road, this element of 
your transaction had to appear somewhere in the account in order to 
make your accounts square ? — A. Yes. 

Q. And it was set down to the score of contingencies ! — A. That 
would be naturally the account to which it would be charged. I cannot 
say. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Look at this entry on the ledger. — A. (After examining it.) That 
would not show the transaction. It is in the cashier's book, or the di- 
rectors' book at Omaha. 

Q. You s # ay that from May, 1867, to July, 1869, you were general 
superintendent? — A. Yes. 

Q. What were your duties as general superintendent f — A. Acting for 
the company in operating the road. 

Q. Did your duties include looking after construction? — A. Not 
directly. 

Q. Did you have anything to do with superintending the construction 
of the road ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you very often on the road between these two dates? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. How frequently ? — A. I was on the line more than half of the 
time, I should say. 

Q. Were you very much along the line of the road where the work 
was going on 1 — A. Yes. 

Q. Have you had any experience in railroad construction as a super- 
intendent of construction ? — A. Not previous to that. 

Q. Are you able to state to the committee what it cost to build that 
road ¥ — A. I have no idea. 

By Mr. SWANN:. 

Q. After this transaction became known to the directors of the road, 
of your having paid thislargefee to this Government commissioner, was 
there any formal objection to it, or any protest against what yon had 
done, as having exceeded your authority ? — A. I think there was. 

Q. How does that protest appear ; was there any note of it made on 
the books ? — A. Not to my knowledge. 

Q. So they permitted you to carry that fee of blood to the construction 
account, and nothing was put on the record showing disapprobation of 
your course ? — A. I was in Omaha and the directors were in Boston, and 
I ©annot say what they have on the minutes. 

Q. Of course the transaction must have been known to them all ? — A. 
I judge so. 

Q. And still there was no protest, and no objection to your action ? — 
A. Some months afterward I received a letter from Mr. Oakes Ames 
protesting against it. 

Q. What did he say in that letter— that he was representing himself 
or the board 5 did he represent to you that the matter had been brought 
to the notice of the board, and that the company had disapproved of 
it ? — A. I think not. I think he wrote himself, as president of the com- 
pany, without stating anything in reference to the board. He might 
have mentioned the board of directors. 

Q. So that you considered them as recognizing the principle that you 
had a right to pay this money for such services, and that there was no 
power to interfere with you ? — A. No, sir ; I did not think so. 



CKEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 475 

Q. And the whole transaction was tacitly acquiesced in by the board ? — 
A. The transaction was past before the board knew anything about it. 

Q. But after the board did know something about it, there was no 
protest of any sort, no formal objection, and nothing of that sort was 
entered on the minutes of the company ? — A. Not officially, to my 
knowledge. 

Q. And you considered that as a tacit acquiescence in what you had 
done ? — A. No, sir ; not necessarily. 

Q. That was the fair inference, if they did not object % — A. It was too 
late to object. 

Q. I want to know their opinion of the transaction, whether or not- 
they considered it a legitimate one ? — A. They did not consider it legiti- 
mate that the company should be obliged to pay that amount of money 
in order to get what was its due. I suppose they appreciated my posi- 
tion, while thinking perhaps that I had done wrong. 

Q. What sort of appreciation of your position had they ; was it that 
you had the right to take the funds of the company and pay this cor- 
ruption fee ; is that the position they appreciated f — A. They appreciated 
the fact that the company was entitled to consideration. 

Q. What sort of consideration — that you were permitted to put your 
hand into the treasury and spend $25,000 to bribe a commissioner; do 
you think they appreciated your position in that respect ? — A. I do not 
know that they put it on that ground. 

Q. There is no other ground that I am aware of on which they could 
have looked at that transaction. So that it was a tacit acquiescence on 
the part of the board in what you had done. There was no protest 
against it, and nothing on the books to show that they disapproved of 
your course. — A. Not to my knowledge. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. When you settled your accounts with the company, were you al- 
lowed this $25,000 ! — A. I never had any formal settlement of my ac- 
counts with the company. 

Q. Have they ever presented any claim against you for the $25,000 
thus used by you ? — A. Never ; nor for 25 cents for any other purpose. 



Washington, D. C, February 1, 1873. 

Charles C. Van Zandt sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside ! — Answer. Newport, Rhode Island. 

Q. Were you at any time an officer of the Union Pacific Kailroad 
Company % — A. I never was. 

Q. Have you had any connection with that company? — A. I was 
counsel for it in some suits pending in the State courts in Rhode Island 
in the years 1868 and 1869. 

Q. Had you had any employment from that company prior to that 
time? — A. Never. 

Q. Were you in the city of Washington in the spring and summer of 
1864, when legislation was pending before Congress with reference to 
the TJnion Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. I very likely may have been 
here at those times, but not in connection with that legislation. 

Q. Have you any knowledge or information as to any expenditures of 



476 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

money by the Union Pacific Eailroad Company with reference to influ- 
encing that legislation f — A. No personal, definite knowledge. 

Q. What knowledge or information have you with reference to the 
matter ? — A. I may have heard, during the time I was acting as counsel 
for these gentlemen, some loose conversation with reference to it, which 
left a very uncertain impression on my mind. 

Q. To what gentlemen do you refer ? — A. It is impossible for me to 
state. It was a matter entirely outside of my professional employment. 
I was thrown in constantly with those gentlemen in the progress of these 
suits in 1868 and 1869, and perhaps 1870. 

Q. Give us the best impression you have as to the gentlemen with 
whom you were thus thrown in contact, and with whom you had con- 
versations. — A. To arrive at that, I shall have to narrate one feature 
of the case in which I was retained. There were bills in equity filed, in 
Ehode Island, by Mr. E. G. Hazard, and several other parties, against 
Mr. T. C. Durant, the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, and the Credit 
Mobilier of America. These bills, among other allegements, stated 
that considerable sums of money had been expended by Mr. Durant ; 
and Mr. Hazard, and the parties associated with him, (Mr. Eoland G. 
Hazard was really the moving party,) alleged that they had repeatedly 
requested the corporations to recover this money — to demand a recovery 
from Mr. Durant ; but that the corporations having declined to do so, 
they filed their bills, making them parties with Mr. Durant. Mr. Durant, 
in answering these suits, retained me, and I was subsequently retained 
by the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, and by the Credit Mobilier of 
America. These suits were pending for some time in Ehode Island, 
and during that time I heard the matter discussed, more or less, among 
those gentlemen. Mr. Durant utterly denied that any such expendi- 
ture had been made. He denied it in his answer, and stated, further, 
that whatever money he had expended for the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company had been subsequently passed upon by duly-appointed com- 
mittees of the t^o corporations, and that the accounts had been audited 
and settled. That was a portion of his defense. That seemed to be agreed 
to by those gentlemen. The bills were never pressed to an ultimate hear- 
ing. They were pending for a long time, and are, in fact, still pending 
in Ehode Island, but there is no probability of a hearing. The officers 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, when the suits were first com- 
menced, retained Mr. Thomas A. Jenckes and myself; or rather I re- 
tained Mr. Jenckes, at their request, to act for them. Subsequently, 
they receded from their action, and disavowed the fact that they had 
retained us. After that they took the first ground again that we were 
their counsel; and then again they receded from that position. During 
the course of these proceedings I heard a good deal of conversation, but 
really I am unable to state definitely what it was. I was thrown in with 
Mr. Oliver Ames, Mr. Oakes Ames, Mr. Duff, Mr. Dillon, and Mr. Alley. 
I do not know that I ever heard anything stated definitely enough that 
I can repeat it. Some of these gentlemen were in the habit of talking 
pretty loosely. Mr. Durant invariably stated to me that there was no 
such money expended, and he so set up in his answer. I do not recollect 
Mr. Dillon's ever making any remark in relation to it, and I cannot say 
what the other gentlemen did. 

Q. Was the matter out of which this litigation grew what they called 
a suspense-account ? — A. Yes, sir ; it was really that matter. 

Q. Do you recollect the amount of it ? — A. Not definitely; 1 should 
say very nearly $200,000. 

Q. Was it not between $400,000 and $500,000 !— A. I do not think it 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 477 

was so much as that. The entire amount claimed of Durant in the bill 
was more than that, but I do not think that the suspense-account was 
so much as that, although I may be under misapprehension. 

Q. Was it claimed by any of those parties that any portion of this 
money had been expended for the purpose of procuring that legislation 
or for corruption purposes'? — A. I do not think I heard that stated 
definitely, and I scarcely think it proper that I should state a mere 
vague impression of my own, which is very vague. 

Q. I simply desire you to give your best impression. — A. My own 
impression was very decided that there had been a good deal of mis- 
management of the whole matter. The inconsistent manner in which 
they treated their counsel, assuming one position one day and another 
day assuming another position, gave me that impression. I did not 
hear any of the gentlemen say that there had been any bribery. 

Q. What did those gentlemen who were opposing Dr. Durant in this 
matter claim had been done with this money? — A. The parties were 
desirous that these suits should be carried into the Federal court, and 
Mr. Jenckes and myself moved for their removal, under instructions 
from the corporations and Mr. Durant. It was necessary to obtain some 
bondsmen, some sureties in Rhode Island, and these gentlemen pro- 
cured to be executed to me, individually, a bond for quite a large 
amount — larger than was necessary. I procured the necessary security, 
becoming responsible for it myself, and holding this bond as collateral 
security. Mr. Durant recognized that I was their counsel. The other 
parties assumed that I was not, and ignored the fact that they had ever 
given a bond. That was comparatively a few months afterward. I do 
not recollect the amount of the bond, but it was larger than was neces- 
sary. My impression is that it was $50,000 or $100,000. 

Q. Have you any impression now as to what it was that these gentle- 
men were claiming that Dr. Durant had used the money for ? — A. There 
were a number of complaints in the bill. Mr. Eoland G. Hazard was 
really the moving party. Mr. Isaac Hazard, his brother, was associated 
with him, and quite a number of ladies. There were difficulties be- 
tween Mr. Durant and Mr. Hazard, growing out of matters with which 
I was not cognizant. Mr. Hazard claimed that Mr. Durant had appro- 
priated a large amount from the company, including this suspense-ac- 
count, and had never properly accounted for it. The officers and di- 
rectors of the two corporations agreed with Mr. Durant at that time 
that the suspense-account had been audited, investigated, and settled. 
I suppose that there were vouchers, and that that was a finality, and 
that the account was no longer open. Mr. Durant assured me that no 
portion of that money had been applied illegitimately. Mr. Hazard did 
not allege in his bill that it had been. He merely alleged that it had 
been appropriated by Mr. Durant for his own purposes, and that noth- 
ing of it had been expended at all. There was no allegement in the 
bill that there had been any corruption. There was a vast amount of 
crimination and recrimination constantly going on among these parties. 
They were friendly one week and quarreling the next. They would 
agree on one statement one day, and would disagree the next. I do not 
mean to include the whole of them. Mr. Durant's course throughout 
the whole matter seemed to me consistent and proper. He staid in one 
position. Sometimes they would agree with him, and back him up, 
and sometimes they would disagree with him, and assail him. 

Q. Did they give you any information as to the manner in which 
they had audited and settled this suspense-account? — A. They said 
there was a committee appointed by the board of directors. 



478 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Did they give you any details as to the manner in which that com- 
mittee had audited and disposed of that account % — A. Not to my 
knowledge — merely that such committee had been appointed, and that 
the account had been duly audited and settled. 

Q. Have you any information in reference to this matter other than 
you have already given to the committee 1 — A. Not any that I think 
would be of any value. The general impression made on my mind is 
pretty well formed, but specifically I can scarcely speak. 

By Mr. SHELLABARGER : 
Q. Can you give us the substance of the declarations of the officers of 
this company, or of any one of them, as to whether any of this money 
called the suspense-account was used in procuring favorable legislation 
in Congress ? — A. 'No, sir ; I cannot. 



Washington, D. C, February 1, 1873. 

John Duff sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Have you been connected with the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company at any time ? — Answer. I have been connected with it since 
1866, as a director. 

Q. When did you become a stockholder *? — A. In 1866, 1 think. 

Q. About the time that you were elected director, did you first be- 
come a stockholder ? — A, Yes ; I think so. 

Q. Have you had any other official connection with the Union Pacific 
Bailroad Company but as director % — A. As vice-president. 

Q. When did you become vice-president ? — A. In the spring of 1869. 

Q. And continued how long? — A. I am vice-president still. 

Q. Have you been at any time connected with the corporation known 
as the Credit Mobilier of America ? — A. I subscribed for stock in it at 
the time it was re- organized. 

Q. Did you hold any official position in that corporation % — A. I think 
not. 

Q. Do you still hold your stock in the Credit Mobilier f — A. No, sir. 

Q. How long is it since you disposed of it ? — A. Three or four years 
ago. 

Q. Did you dispose of it before or after the dividends were made by 
the Credit Mobilier I — A. I think there were two dividends made before 
I disposed of it. 

Q. Did you dispose of it before any dividends were made by the trus- 
tees under the Oakes Ames contract ? — A. I did. 

Q. Did you receive any dividends from the trustees under the Oakes 
Ames contract or the Davis contract % — A. No, sir. 

Q. How many dividends did you receive as a shareholder in the 
Credit Mobilier % — A. I think it was two. 

Q. Do you recollect the percentage of those dividends % — A. I think 
there were two 6 per cent, dividends in stock of the Union Pacific E ail- 
road, at 30 per cent, on its par value. 

Q. What else did you receive beside those dividends % — A. I think I 
received bonds as a bonus at the time of the increase of the capital 
stock of the Credit Mobilier. I cannot say whether we received the 
stock or the dividends as a bonus. 

Q. How much stock did you hold in the Credit Mobilier ?-— A. Eight- 
een hundred shares, I think. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 479 

Q. Of $100 par value each ?— A. Yes. 

Q. And if you received bonds, then for every $1,000 on the increased 
stock that you took, you got a $1,000 bond ? — A. I either got the bond 
or the railroad stock, but I do not recollect on what basis. If we sub- 
scribed for bonds, we got the stock as a bonus. 

Q. When the stock of the Credit Mobilier was increased did you take 
your proportion of the increased stock ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And received whatever accompanied that stock ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Do you know anything in relation to an item of $126,000 paid out 
on the 9th of March, 1871?— A. Nothing but what I have heard since 
this investigation commenced. 

Q. Were you on any committee to investigate that matter ? — A. I 
was appointed on the committee, but I declined to serve, and did not 
serve. 

Q. Were you present at a meeting of the board of directors on the 
8th and 9th of March, 1871, when action was had by the board with 
reference to this $126,000 ? — A. I do not recollect any action being taken 
by the board about it, but I was informed that I had been appointed 
upon a committee to adjust and settle. 

Q. When were you informed of that ? — A. Probably I was not in 
the room when the board passed the order appointing the committee, 
but shortly afterward the president of the company and General Dodge 
and Mr. Bushnell came into my office, just across the hall, and said I 
was appointed on the committee. 

Q. You were there in the building at the time the meeting was held ? — 
A. Yes. 

Q. To what office do you refer that they came to ? — A. It was a part 
of the office of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, the land-office— 
the office that I occupied there. 

Q. And you were there in the capacity of an officer and director of 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you informed of your appointment on that committee ?— ^A. 
.Yes ; the committee came into my office, and informed me that I was 
appointed on the committee. 

Q. Had vou been in the city of Washington shortly prior to that 
time?— A. Yes. 

Q. What was your business here ? — A. I came here to see what Con- 
gress was going to do in reference to this order of Mr. BoutwelFs. 

Q. Was your business here to aid in getting congressional action that 
should operate as a reversal of the action of Mr. Boutwell in connec- 
tion with withholding the amounts due for Government transportation 
to pay interest? — A. I came here on the invitation of Mr. Ames by 
letter. He said that I had got to come on here. I came here on the 
2d or 3d of March. 

Q. For what purpose ? — A. To see whether we could do anything in 
relation to it. 

Q. Did you take any steps of anv kind to influence the passage of 
the act of March 3, 1871 ?— A. No, sir. 

Q. When you were notified of your appointment on this committee to 
audit or examine this account of $126,000, you say you declined to serve 
on the committee ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Why did you decline to serve % — A. Because I knew nothing about 
it. I was not aware, until the committee was appointed, that there had 
been such an expenditure. I knew nothing about it, and refused to act. 

Q. If you had served on the committee you might have found out 
something about it?— A. Yes, sir; that is very true. 



480 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. "Why, then, should you decline to make use of the means to find 
out something about this item of $126,000, which was to be passed upon 
by the committee? — A. I was not aware of any sum, or what the form, 
shape, or fashion of it was. 

Q. What were you informed that you were appointed on the com- 
mittee to do ? — A. To adjust legal expenses at Washington. I think 
that was it. 

Q. What legal expenses had you in Washington ? — A. I did not know 
of any. 

Q. You had been here as one of the officers of the company ? — A. 
Yes. 

Q. Were you advised of the employment of any attorney here ? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any counsel of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany having been here with reference to any special matters relating 
to the company ? — A. I do not think we had any here ; not to my knowl- 
edge. 

Q. Then the calling on you to act on a committee to adjust legal ex- 
penses at Washington was something that was a little unusual, was it 
not ?— A. I am often called to serve on committees. 

Q. Are you often called to serve on committees to adjust legal ex- 
penses? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Then this was an exceptional case ? — A. Yes ; I think it was. 

Q. The adjustment of accounts involving the expenditure of the 
moneys of the company was a matter, I presume, of some consequence 
to the company, in your estimation as an officer ? — A. Yes, sir ; of 
course. 

Q. Then why should you decline to act on the committee which would 
give you information with reference to the adjustment of an unusual 
account ? — A. As I said before, I knew nothing about it. The president 
of the company and General Dodge, and, I think, one or two others, had 
been in Washington for several months, and must have known all about 
it, while I did not. I knew nothing about the circumstances. 

Q. Did you not feel it your duty, as an officer of the company, having 
been appointed on that committee, to look after the pecuniary interests 
of the company and the expenditure of its moneys, and especially when 
those moneys had been expended in an unusual way? — A. I beg your 
pardon. I do not think that I said that. I do not know that they were 
spent in an unusual way. 

Q. You say that this was not an ordinary expenditure ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Well, here was an extraordinary expenditure ? — A. I hardly think 
I even said that. 

Q. What would you call it ? — A. Your question, I think, was whether 
I had been in the habit of serving on committees of that character for 
legal expenses, and I said I had not been. I do not know that there ever 
was another committee appointed for that purpose. 

Q. Then this was unusual ? — A. I would not say that. I do not know, 
for I have been often absent from the meetings of the board. It was 
unusual as far as my knowledge extended. 

Q. Can you give the committee any reason why you declined to act on 
that committee, and thereby to inform yourself as to the character of the 
account, which was, as you say, unusual in its character ? — A. I did not 
say that the account was unusual, but that a committee for that pur- 
pose was unusual. 

Q. What reason had you for declining to act with that committee, 
and thus to inform yourself with reference to that account ? — A. As I 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 481 

said before, because I did not know anything about it ; and because the 
other members of that committee had all been at Washington, I think. 

Q. By acting with that committee yon might have informed yourself 
about it ?— A. Yes.; 

Q. But you did not do so? — A. I did not. 

Q. Is it or is it not a fact that yon were apprehensive that you might 
make some discoveries there that might be unpleasant in their charac- 
ter? — A. No, sir; I had no such apprehension or thought about it; I 
had no reason to apprehend that there was any such thing in it. 

The Chairman. The committee desires to give you, you having been 
one of the officers of the company when $126,000 was paid and charged 
up to legal expenses, the fullest opportunity to explain anything that 
you kuow, or to give any information of which you may be in posses- 
sion relative to this expenditure. 

The Witness. I know nothing about it excepting the fact that I said 
before, that there was that amount of money expended, and that I heard 
since this investigation commenced. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. You were asked why you did not act on that committee, and you 
answered that you knew nothing about the transaction. I should like 
to ask you, if in making that answer to that question you think you 
have answered the whole truth according to your oath. — A. I do. 

Q. How long were you here in Washington at the time of the passage 
of that legislation ? — A. A day or two. 

Q. When did you come here? — A. I left Washington on the 4th of 
March ; I came here a day or two before. 

Q. At whose request did you come? — A. At the request of Mr. Oliver 
Ames, the president of the company. 

Q. Was that request verbal, or in writing, or by telegraph ?— A. I for- 
get; 1 think it was verbal. 

Q. What reason did he assign for your coming?— A. To see what was 
going on here. I asked him what was doing, and he said I had better go 
on. 

Q. Did you not know that you could learn of the action of Congress 
from the papers in Boston, publishing three or four editions a day, as 
promptly as if you were here ? — A. No, sir, I did not think I could. 

Q. And you made that journey for no other purpose than to see what 
Congress was going to do? — A. Yes, sir, for no other purpose. 

Q. How did you expect to find out what Congress was going to do be- 
fore it did it ? — A. Because there were a good many of our large stock- 
holders here, and they would probably know. 

Q. Why were you so anxious to know as that you took that journey 
both ways early in March ? — A. Congress adjourned early in March, and 
that was why I came early in March. 

Q, I ask you why you were so anxious to know that you made that 
journey from Boston to Washington early in March ? — A. I have told 
you that my purpose was to know what Congress was doing. 

Q. Could you not have learned by having some of those gentlemen 
telegraph to you as soon as anything happened ? — A. I do not know 
whether I could have or not. 

Q. And you think you have answered the whole truth to that ques- 
tion also according to your oath ? — A. I do. 

Q. From whom did you inquire what Congress was going to do when 
you got here? — A. From a good many. 
31 c M 



482 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. From whom % — A. Mr. Eobbins, one of the directors, was the first 
I met, I think. 

Q. Who else ? — A. General Dodge. 

Q. What did he tell you that Congress was going to do ? — A. He 
thought that the thing would be right ; that the Government transpor- 
tation would be paid as usual. 

Q. Did he tell you the reasons why he thought so ? — A. No, I do 
not recollect that he did ; I think he said that it would be all right. 

Q. What did Mr. Bobbins say ? — A. About the same. 

Q. Whom else did you see ? — A. I think I saw the president of the 
company, Thomas A. Scott, and he told me the same when I asked him. 

Q. Is that all you got from Mr. Scott % — A. That is all. My conversa- 
tion was very brief. 

Q. Did you have conversation with any other person? — A. Yes,- 
perhaps with twenty. I saw Mr. Bushnell. 

Q. What did he tell you % — A. About the same. 

Q. Anybody else % — A. I met some of the Central Pacific Eailroad 
people. 

Q. Who are the persons whom you met from the Central Pacific Eail- 
road Company % — A. I think I met General Fanshaw. 

Q. Did you charge your expenses here to the company, or did you pay 
them out of your private pocket % — A. I paid them out of my private 
pocket. 

Q. You never were re-imbursed ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you pay out any sum to any person lor information while you 
were here % — A. No, sir, not a dollar. 

Q. You traveled from Boston to Washington early in March ; staid 
here two or three days ; met sundry gentlemen connected with these 
two railroads ; asked what Congress was going to do ; was told that it 
was all right, and went home again % — A. Yes, I went home after Con- 
gress adjourned. 

Q. And you say that your sole object in coming here was to put that 
question % — A. No, not to put that question, but to see what was 
going on. 

Q. Did you do anything to help it going on % — A. No, sir, I did not 
try to. 

Q. You came on to see fair play 1 — A. No, sir 5 I could not see it 
probably, if I did. 

Q. Were you consulted by any of the other officers of the road as to 
the proper measures to be taken ? — A. No, sir. 

. • Q. Did you hold any office at that time, except as director ? — A. I 
was vice-president. 

Q. What were the duties of vice-president ? — A. They are not defined, 
except to act in the absence of the president. 

Q. What duties did the vice-president actually perform at that time? — 
A. Any of the executive duties in the absence of the president. 

Q. Having a general oversight and superintendence of the affairs ot 
the road ? — A. No, sir. In the absence of the president, the vice-presi- 
dent can act in his place, or the board of directors can assign him to 
certain duties. 

Q. Has not that always been the custom in that company for the vice- 
president to aid the president in the performance of his general duties ! 
— A. Yes, when he is required to do so; but not by the charter or by 
the by-laws. 

Q. I am asking what has been the habit in point of fact. When Mr. 
Durant was vice-president under General Dix's presidency, did he not 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 483 

perform a large part of the duties in supervising the road and in general 
affairs? — A. Yes. 

Q. You being vice-president of the company and a director, were 
appointed on a committee to audit a bill of $126,000 for special legal 
expenses'? — A. I did not know anything about the amount of it. 

Q. But you were appointed on a committee to audit a bill for legal 
expenses in Washington ? — A. Yes ; I understood that the expenses 
were in Washington. 

Q. And your only reason for declining to perform the duty with which 
you were charged by the board of directors, as a member of that com- 
mittee, was, that you did not know anything of what the expenses were 
for? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That is your answer? — A. That is my answer. 

By Mr. SHELLABARaER : 

Q. I understood you to say that your reason for declining to go on 
that committee was, that you knew nothing about the subject-matter of 
the inquiry — that you knew nothing about the thing which the commit- 
tee was expected to inquire into ?— A. I suppose it was the subject 
mentioned in the resolution. 

Q. What was your reason for declining to serve on that committee ? — 
A. As I have given it. 

Q. How have you given it ? — A. That I knew nothing about it. 

Q. About what? — A. About the legal expenses at Washington. 

Q. Is it the practice of the officers of the Union Pacific Eailroadi 
Company to decline to go on committees merely because they personally 
know nothing about the subject, and that they only act when they them- 
selves know about the subject-matter to be investigated? — A. 1 do not 
know what is the practice of others; it has been my practice very often, 
and J know that it has been the practice of a good many directors, when 
appointed, to decline and not act. 

Q. Is that not rather a reason why your board should have commit- 
tees and why you should go upon them ; is not the fact that you know 
nothing about the matter rather a reason that it should be investi- 
gated? — A. Not to my mind. In this case, knowing that the gentle- 
men who were appointed on that committee had been all here, I knew 
that they were the proper persons to attend to it. 

Q. Was there anything to prevent your finding out all about it at 
that time by resorting to the source of information? — A. No, sir; I 
could have gone on the committee, and found out all about it, I suppose. 

Q. You were here at Washington during part, at least, of the time of 
those expenditures? — A. I do not know anything about when they were 
expended. 

Q. I understood your answer to be that, when you were notified that 
you were appointed on the committee, you understood that that com- 
mittee was to investigate legal expenses that had been incurred at 
Washington ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You had been at Washington during, at least, a part of the time of 
those legal expenditures? — A. I do not know when they were expended 
here. I do not know whether they were expended during the two or 
three days that I was here, or months before, or years before. 

Q. Did I not understand you to say to the chairman that you knew 
of no legal expenses incurred here at that time, and that you did not 
think there were any lawyers employed here ? — A. I did not know of 
any, and I did not know of any lawyers being employed here. I have 
no knowledge of it, and I do not think I ever heard of any. > 



484 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Yon have given the names of a large number of gentlemen who 
were here, connected with that affair, and whom you inquired of. — A. I 
do not know that they were connected with the matter ; they were gen- 
tlemen whom I inquired of. 

Q. Were not these the gentlemen who were prominently interested 
and active in the matter at that time ? — A. I supposed they were. 

Q. Were your conversations with them frequent during the time you 
were here ? — A. ]STo, sir. 

Q. Do you think that they might have employed lawyers who ren- 
dered important services, amounting to $126,000, and that you would 
not have heard anything about it, while you were here with them ? — A. 
I did not hear anything about it. 

Q. Is it likely that you would have heard about it if there had been 
such employment as that, doing such a large amount of business! — A. 
I think it is likely that I should not have heard of it. 

Q. Why should you not have heard of it? — A. In the first place, I 
should not want to have heard of it, and I did not inquire. I supposed 
the thing was all done when I came here. 

Q. Was there anybody here whose duty it was more than yours to 
know about an employment so important as that? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q, Who? — A. The president of the road, the executive officer. 

Q. You were the vice-president, however, at that time ? — A. Yes, I 
think so. 

Q. And you think it likely that they would not have let you know 
about it, had that thing occurred ?— A. No, sir ; I do not think they 
would. I made no inquiries at all upon the subject, except to ask how 
they were getting along, and they said that it was all right. I was here 
a very short time when the bill passed. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. What is your position in the company now? — A. I am vice- 
president. 

Q. Do you know how the stock of the company is held now ; about 
how much of it is held abroad? — A. The transfer agents, Morton & 
Bliss, told me a few days ago that there was about 40,000 shares of the 
stock held in Germany and on the continent. 

Q. When did that stock go over there ?— A. It has been going over 
there for the last two years. A good deal has gone lately, and a good 
deal went about two years ago. 

Q. What is your opinion as to the amount of Union Pacific Kailroad 
stock changing hands from day to day? — A. It is very large indeed. I 
saw a statement in the papers, taken from the reports of the board of 
brokers, that the stock had changed hands fifteen times over within the 
past year ; that fifteen times the amount of the capital stock had been 
sold. 

Q. Can you state how much of the bonds of the company is held 
abroad 1 — A. jSTo, I cannot ; it is a large amount, however. 

Q. What classes of bonds are held abroad ? — A. The first-mortgage 
bonds and the land-grant bonds. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You say that you were requested by Mr. Oliver Ames to come to 
Washington ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. To see what was going on here? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The Secretary of the Treasury had already taken his action with 
reference to withholding the transportation-money ? — A. Yes, sir. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AXD UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 485 

Q. You were not apprehensive, then, that Congress would pass any 
legislation unfriendly to you in that behalf? — A. Xo, sir; I understood 
that it was going to be friendly. 

Q. Your purpose was to secure friendly legislation ? — A. No ; I was 
pretty well satisfied that the thiug was accomplished a day or two be- 
fore the third of March. I did not come herewith any such expectation 
or hope. 

Q. You were not here for the purpose of preventing Congress from 
legislating against your company ? — A. I had no purpose of the kiud. 

Q. The company was seeking for legislation to set aside what the Sec- 
retary of the Treasury had done ? — A. I suppose so. 

Q. So that the initiative in reference to that legislation which you 
were here looking after was by the company, and in the interest of the 
company? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you ever hear anything about what has been spoken of here 
as the suspeuse-account ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What position did you occupy at that time in the company? — A. 
I think that that was long before I had any official connection with the 
company. 

Q. You mean to say that the expenditure was before that time? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you here in 1864, when 'the legislation in reference to the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company was pending before Congress '? — A. I 
think not. 

Q. Were you on any committee subsequently, to investigate that sus- 
pense-account ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Had you ever connection with it in any way f — A. None at all. 

Q. You know nothing about it f — A. I know nothing about it except 
the reports made by the different committees appointed. 

Q. Did you attend the meetings of the board of directors generally ? — 
A. Generally. 

Q. I show you a record of the meeting of 11th September, 1868 ; were 
you at that meeting? — A. (After examining the record.) I suppose so, 
from this record. The record states so, and I suppose it is correct. 

Q. I call your attention also to the record of 4th January, 1867. State 
whether you were present at that meeting. — A. (After examining the 
record.) Very likely ; the record shows it. I have some doubts, how- 
ever, about the other one. 

Q. Eead the resolution offered by Mr. Lambard at the meeting of Jan- 
uary 4, 1867. — A. (Eeading.) " Mr. Lambard offered the following reso- 
lution, which was adopted: Eesolved, That Mr. Oliver Ames, president 
pro tern., and J. J. Cisco, treasurer, be a committee to inform themselves 
in reference to the details of the so-called suspense-account of this com- 
mittee ; also to audit any further claims on this account, and that their 
statement to this board that the facts in the premises are satisfactory to 
them, shall end all further discussion, and that the account shall be 
closed and charged to construction." 

Q. Now, I call your attention again to the meeting of 11th September, 
1868, at which you say the record shows that you were present. I ask 
you whether you recollect that suspense-account being under considera- 
tion by the board ?— A. I do not. I have no recollection of it at all. I 
have a recollection of that resolution being passed. 
^ Q. Have you no recollection whatever of that suspeuse-account ? — A. 
No, sir: I never saw it until I saw it here the other day. 

Q. Then you can give the committee no information in regard to the 



486 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

matter, or on what account those items of the suspense-account were 
used ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. Has this matter never been the subject of inquiry or controversy 
in the board of directors since you have been a member ? — A. Except 
that it has been talked about by the directors, and except that action of 
Mr. Lainbard's referring it to the president pro tem. and Mr. Cisco. 

Q. You never made an inquiry into it yourself, and you can give the 
committee no information in reference to the purpose for which this 
sum of money was expended'? — A. No, sir; all these are charges before 
I had any connection with the road. I was elected director in October, 
1866, and this account ends in March, 1866. 

The Chairman. There is evidence before the committee which seems 
to make it necessary that explanations shall be given of this suspense- 
account, and the committee desires to afford you and all other gentle- 
men who have been connected with the management of this road at any 
time the fullest opportunity to give an explanation of the manner in 
which this money has been expended. That is the reason why I put these 
questions to you ; and I now give you the opportunity to make any ex- 
planation that you may deem it your duty to give. 

The Witness. I told you that I know nothing about it. That expense 
was incurred long before I had any connection with the road. 

Q. Were you at any time one of the trustees under what is known as 
the Oakes Ames contract ?— A. I was. 

Q. Were you one of the original seven *?— A. No, sir. 

Q. Whose place did you take % — A. Mr. Alley's. 

Q. At what time did you become a trustee'?— A. I cannot give you 
the date. 

Q. I should like you to give it as near as possible.— A. I cannot give 
you the date. 

Q. Were you a trustee before or after the dividends were declared 
under the Oakes Ames contract to the shareholders of the Credit Mo- 
bilier? — A. It was after. 

Q. Ever before % — A. No, sir. 

Q. The Oakes Ames contract was made in August, 1867, and assigned 
to the trustees in October, 1867. I call your attention to the record of 
the board of trustees of 3d July, 1868, and ask you to state whether you 
were then a member of the board, and whether you were present at 
that meetings — A. (After examining the record.) Yes ; the record 
shows it. 

Q. Fix the date of your appointment from the record.— A. (After ex- 
amining the record.) Mr. Alley resigned 11th March, 1868, and on that 
day I was appointed, as appears by the record. 

Q. Were you present at the meeting of the board of trustees 12th 
March, 1868? — A. (After referring to the record.) It seems so. 

Q. Bead the resolution offered by Mr. Bushnell on that date. — A. 
(Reading.) " Mr. Bushnell offered a resolution that Mr. Ames vote the 
stock in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company for which the trustees hold 
the proxies for the adoption of the by-laws, as reported by the commit- 
tee appointed for draughting the same." 

Q. Were you present at the meeting of the board on the 4th January, 
1868 % — A. (After examining the record.) Yes, the record shows that I 
was there. 

Q. Bead the resolution offered by Mr. Durant at that meeting. — A, 
(Beading.) " Mr. Durant offered resolution that the treasurer be au- 
thorized to loan the funds of the trustees, not required for immediate 
use, to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, payable on demand, and 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 487 

take such collateral security therefor as first-mortage bonds arid Gov- 
ernment bonds at the market rates." 

Q. Was that resolution adopted ? — A. It appears so by the record. 
It says "carried." 

Q. Were you present at the meeting' June 17, 1868? — A. (After 
examining the record.) It seems so by the record. 

Q. Bead the resolution offered by Mr. Durant on that occasion. — A. 
(Beading.) "Mr. Durant Offered resolution that the treasurer, Mr. B. 
E. Bates, be instructed to subscribe fifteen hundred thousand dollars to 
the stock of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company at par, and make 
payment thereon. Carried unanimously." 

Q. Bead the next resolution that was offered and adopted at tbat 
meeting. — A. (Beading.) "Mr. Bates offered resolution that, in accord- 
ance with the provisions of the trust, a dividend of 60 per cent, in cash 
and 40 per cent, in stock of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company be paid 
to the holders of the stock of the Credit Mobilier of America who have 
complied with the requirements of the trust, payable on and after this 
date. Yea and nay vote taken, and carried unanimously." 

Q. Then, after you became a trustee, there were dividends made by 
the board of trustees to the shareholders in the Credit Mobilier ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you present at the meeting of July 2, 1868 ? — A. (After ex- 
amining the record.) Yes, sir. 

Q. Bead the resolution offered by Mr. Bushnell at that meeting. — A. 
(Beading.) "Mr. Bushnell offered resolution that the treasurer make de- 
mand on the Credit Mobilier of America for an advance of two millions, 
under agreement of October 15, 1867. Carried." 

Q. Were you present at the meeting held in New York July 3, 1868? — 
A. (After examining the record.) Yes, sir. 

Q. Bead the resolution offered by Mr. Bushnell on that occasion. — A. 
(Beading.) "Mr. Bushnell offered resolution that the treasurer be 
authorized and directed to subscribe for $2,500,000 of stock of the Union 
Pacific Bailroad Company, and make payment therefor. Carried 
unanimously." 

Q. Bead the next resolution. — A. (Beading.) "Mr. Bushnell offered 
resolution that the treasurer be authorized and directed to purchase 
$2,500,000 first-mortgage bonds of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company, 
at 101. Yea and nay vote called; carried unanimously." 

Q. Were you present at the meeting July 8, 1868? — A. (After ex- 
amining the record.) I appear to have been by the record. 

Q. Bead resolution offered by Mr. Bushnell on that occasion. — -A. 
(Reading.) "Mr. Bushnell offered resolution that the treasurer be 
authorized to sell 28,125 shares of Union Pacific Bailroad stock at not * 
less than 40 per cent., first offering it to the parties interested in con- 
tracts by the road." 

Q. Bead the next resolution of the same date. — A. (Beading.) " Mr. 
Bushnell offered resolution that we make an allotment of 20 per cent., in 
cash, to the parties interested in the trust, payable as fast as the trustees 
receive tho profits on the sale of stoek of the Union Pacific Bailroad 
Company. Carried." 

Q. Bead the next resolution. — A. (Beading.) "Mr. Bushnell offered 
resolution that the treasurer be directed and authorized to subscribe 
for 3,000 shares of stock of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company, and 
pay therefor. Yea and nay vote called ; carried." 

Q. By some of those resolutions to which I have called your atten- 
tion, the treasurer was authorized to subscribe for a large amount of 



488 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

stock of the Union Pacific Railroad at par, and to make payments 
thereon. In what way was the subscription made, and in what way 
was it paid for? Just describe how the thing was done. — A. It was 
paid by moneys due from the Union Pacific Eailroad Company for build- 
ing the road. It was paid by their check, probably. 

Q. Do you mean to say that it was paid for in money at par, or that 
it was taken on account of road-building? — A. It was paid for in checks 
of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, received by the trustees for 
work done under the contract. 

Q. It was just so much stock taken from the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company in payment for work done under the contract? — A. The check 
was taken for the work done and the check was paid back for the stock. 

Q. But that is just what it amounted to? — A. That is just what it 
amounted to. 

Q. Taking payment for work in stock? — A. I have not said that. I 
said that the trustees got the company's check for work done under the 
Oakes Ames contract, and with that check of the company the trustees 
subscribed for stock to pay for it. That is the record, I believe. 

Q. Is that the way in which the bonds were purchased, also, that are 
referred to in this resolution % — A. Some of them, probably. 

Q. Can you tell how many of them were procured in that way ? — A. 
I cannot. 

Q. Were any bonds procured that were not procured in that way? — 
A. That I am not able to say ; T suppose not, however. 

Q. Do you know of any case in which these trustees took money and 
purchased bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad Company as trustees? — 
A. I do not recollect any. I suppose they were all purchased in the 
same way. 

Q. Diet you have any connection with the letting of the Oakes Ames 
contract? — A. I was at the time a director in the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company. 

Q. What was the understanding at the time the Oakes Ames contract 
w r as let, with reference to who should execute that contract so far as the 
construction of the road was concerned 5 whether it was to be done by 
Oakes Ames himself, or whether it was to be assigned by him for the 
benefit of the shareholders of the Credit Mobilier ? — A. I was opposed 
as a director to making the Oakes Ames contract, and 1 was not famil- 
iar with the general understanding at the time ; but I understood that 
the road was to be built, as it was, by trustees. I was opposed to the 
contract originally, and consequently I was not in the trusteeship. 

Q. Was the fact of your being opposed to it one of the reasons why 
you were not a trustee ? — A. I think it was. 

Q. What were the grounds of your opposition to the Oakes Ames 
contract? — A. I thought there might be a simpler and better method of 
doing it, and I thought that he was not the proper person to build a 
railroad, being a member of Congress. I opposed it to that extent that 
the majority would not have me in the management. There were 
sundry other reasons that I had. 

Q. Then your attention was directed to the subject of the trustees? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you make known that objection at the time? — A. I think I 
did. 

Q. What other reasons had you? — A. There were some parties con- 
nected with it who I did not think were efficient railroad men or under- 
stood the construction of railroads. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 489 

Q. Had you any other reason ? — A. There may have been other rea- 
sons, but I cannot recollect them now. 

Q. State who the other parties were who you thought were not good 
railroad men. — A. Mr. Oake,s Ames. At the time the contract was made 
with Mr. Oakes Ames, I did not know the disposition that was going to 
be made of it. I understood afterward that it was to be assigned to 
trustees. Mr. Oakes Ames had no experience in building railroads. 
Mr. Oliver Ames had no experience, neither had Mr. John B. Alley nor 
Mr. B. 0. Bates. I do not think Mr. Bates knew anything at all about 
it. He told Mr. Alley that he had no experience in constructing rail- 
roads ; he was a merchant and politician. 

Q. When was it that you first got the understanding that this con- 
tract was to be executed in the interest of the stockholders of the Credit 
Mobilier, as it was afterward executed ? — A. Shortly after the contract 
was signed. 

Q. How long afterward? — A. A few days. 

Q. You refer to the signing of the original contract, do you? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Then a few days after it was executed ? — A. I understood that that 
arrangement had been made. 

Q. Did you, a few days after this contract was executed, get an un- 
derstanding that it had been the arrangement at the time it was exe- 
cuted that it should be performed in the manner that it subsequently 
was? — A. As I said before, I was opposed to it, and I was not on very 
intimate relations with the people who were discussing the matter. 
They all favored it, I believe, but myself. I got an intimation that it 
was to be assigned to trustees. 

Q. Did you get the information that that was the understanding when 
the contract was executed ? — A. Yes, I suppose so. It would not have 
been made with Oakes Ames without that understanding. 

Q. At the time that contract was executed there were about 138 miles 
of road which had been already accepted by the Government? — A. It 
was so stated, and I presume it was so. 

Q. Did you not at that time know the fact? — A. I knew that there 
was a large portion of it running, and I supposed that it was accepted 
by the Government. 

Q. Can you give the reason why this Oakes Ames contract was made 
to cover the road which had already been built and accepted by the 
Government?— A. I suppose it was that the profits would make the 
whole thing better and more desirable. 

Q. Was that a device in order to get larger profits on the whole 
work? — A. I suppose so. 

Q. Did the trustees get the benefit of those profits ? — A. I suppose 
they did. 

Q. Do you know what the road that had already been accepted by the 
Government had cost the company ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Did you ever hear any officer of the company state what that por- 
tion of the road already accepted had cost the company at the time the 
Oakes Ames contract was made?— A. No, sir, I do not think I did. I 
have since seen it stated that it cost $27,000 or $28,000 a mile. 

Q. Do you think that is about right ?— A. Yes, I suppose so, if it was 
for cash. 

Q. I am speaking about the cost of the road to the Union Pacific Bail- 
road Company. Was that portion of the road west of the one hun- 
dredth meridian built under any contract prior to the Oakes Ames con- 
tract ?— A. There was some little of it. 



490 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. How much ? — A. I do not recollect. 

Q. Under what contract was it built? — A. I think it was built by the 
company. 

Q. The company didn't make a contract,with itself, did it ? — A. No, 
sir, of course not; but it was an extension of some other contract. I 
think it was an extension of the Hoxie contract. 

Q. Are you not aware of the fact that in the first place a proposition 
was made by Mr. Durant to Boomer, and accepted by Boomer, to build 
this road at $19,500 a mile for a part of it, and for $20,000 for part of 
it? — A. I never knew the details of that contract. 

Q. Was the Hoxie contract ever extended beyond the one hundredth 
meridian ? — A. I do not know. I think they had the right to extend it, 
but I do not know whether it was done or not. The record will show. 
I do not recollect. 

Q. Was the next contract that was accepted by the Union Pacific 
Eailroad after the Hoxie contract, the Oakes Ames contract? — A. I 
think it was, so far as I know. 

Q. State whether the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, after the road 
had been completed under the Hoxie contract to the one hundredth me- 
ridian, continued right along in the construction of the road without any 
contract other than the Boomer contract ? — A. I have no recollection 
of seeing any report made about the Boomer contract. 

Q. How was the road constructed west of the one hundredth meridian 
prior to the execution of the Oakes Ames contract ? — A. I was under 
the impression that it was done by the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 

Q. At the time the Oakes Ames contract was let, had the Uniou Pa- 
cific Eailroad Company informed itself, or had those who were manag- 
ing its affairs informed themselves, as to how much that work had cost 
the company at the time ? — A. I suppose so. Of course they had their 
estimates. 

Q. Can you tell where those estimates can be found ? — A. In the office 
at Boston, I suppose. 

Q. Do you know whether those estimates were made with reference 
to a particular contract-price, or whether they were estimates made as 
to the actual cost of the work ? — A. I suppose they were made as to 
the actual cost of the work to the company. 

Q. Then the company ought to be able to furnish the committee with 
the exact cost of that road west of the one hundredth meridian up to the 
time the Oakes Ames contract was made? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you any recollection whether those who were managing the 
affairs of the company looked into the matter to ascertain the amount 
of that cost? — A. No, sir ; I was not an officer at that time. I was in 
the direction, but not an officer. 

Q. Do you know what it cost this board of trustees to construct the 
road under the Oakes Ames contract?— A. I only know what the trus- 
tees' books show. 

Q. Have you ever examined those books to know what the cost to 
the trustees was ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you ever had it stated to you, or had you any account or 
balance-sheet presented, showing the cost of construction to the board 
of trustees? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Has the board of trustees never considered that matter ? — A. They 
may have considered it, but I do not recollect. , 

Q. You are still a trustee ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Has the board of trustees ever at any time gone into an investi- 
gation to find out how much profit was made on the road west of the 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 491 

one hundredth meridian ? — A. I do not think the accounts have been 
closed up. 

Q. What assets has this board of trustees ? — A. That I am not able 
to answer. 

Q. Have they anything excepting those they derived from the Ames 
contract and the Davis contract? — A. Nothing else. 

Q. What they have distributed, either in money, bonds, or stock, has 
been derived from what source ? — A. From profits on the contracts. 

Q. The Oakes Ames and the Davis contracts ? — A. Profits on the con- 
tracts. 

Q. Had they any other contracts than those ? — A. Not that I am 
aware of. 

Q. They had no other source from which to make any dividends 
among the shareholders of the Credit Mobilier ? — A. No, sir; not that 
I am aware of. 

By Mr. Shllabarger : 

Q. I find this statement made by Mr. Durant before another com- 
mittee. In speaking of the risk which Mr. Oakes Ames incurred in 
taking the contract, he says : 

" The risk would have been somewhat modified by the fact that be- 
tween two and three hundred miles of this road, embraced in this con- 
tract, had been actually completed, the difference in price between the 
actual cost of which and the contract price amounted to upward of 
$3,000,000." 

Now. if you have any defense or justification of the transaction de- 
scribed there to make in behalf of the board of directors of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company, of which you were a member, the committee 
will be glad to hear that explanation. — A. I was opposed originally to 
the contract with Oakes Ames, but the understanding was that it was 
necessary to include that in order to get Mr. Ames to take the balance 
of it. He would not take the contract unless that was included. 

Q. Is there not this also to be said in justification of it, that at the 
time that Mr. Ames got this contract, it was understood that all the 
stockholders of the Credit Mobilier, which included also all the stock- 
holders substantially in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, were to 
share in the profits that were to made out of that contract, and that 
therefore no fraud was worked by the transaction ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That was understood at the time of the Oakes Ames contract, or 
about the time? — A. I think it is embodied in it. 

Q. It is not embodied in the contract, but is in the assignment. Was 
it understood, at the time that Ames took the contract, that this division 
should be made to all alike? — A. Yes. I think the acceptance of the 
Oakes Ames contract provided that it should be so. 

Q. Whether that acceptance was so written or not, do you know it to 
be the fact that it was so understood between you all ? — A. Yes, sir ; 
undoubtedly. 

Q. By this Oakes Ames contract it is provided, among other things, 
that part of the pay shall be taken in stock of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company ; you recollect that, do you not ? — A. Yes. 

Q. That part which the two classes of bonds failed to pay was to be 
taken in stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company at par ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Was the price of the letting put up on account of the kind of pay 
which he was thus to get?— A. Undoubtedly; I suppose it was. 

Q. What was the stock estimated at in your transaction at the time ; 



492 . CREDIT M0BILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

about what did you consider it as worth in cash ? — A. I did not consider 
that it had any market-value at all. 

Q. Do you mean that it had no intrinsic value, or do you simply mean 
that it was not quoted in the market "? — A. I mean that you could not 
borrow money upon it or you could not sell it. 

Q. It was not considered worth anything 1 ? — A. You could not sell 
any considerable portion of it, except to people who would take a risk 
as they would at a faro-bank. 

Q. So it was estimated really in the letting of this work as of no ap- 
preciable value u ? — A. At that time we looked forward to the time when 
the road would be completed, and the country settled, and when the stock 
would be of value. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. Was there no price of the stock talked about at that time ? — A. I 
do not recollect ; I had nothing to do with the details of the contract. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. "Were you an experienced person in railroad construction or man- 
agement at the time you went into that direction? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What had been your experience ; was it in railroad finances, or in 
railroad building, or in both ? — A. In both. I have been in the Hanni- 
bal and Saint Joseph Eailroad Company, and got $600,000 in stock, 
which I offered to take 10 per cent, for rather than take the stock ; so 
that the value of railroad stock before the road is built is not much. 

Q. You, as a director and a party in interest in the Union Pacific 
Bailroad Company, knew something, of course, of the nature of the 
route over which the road was to be built at the time the Oakes Ames 
contract was made ? — A. Not fully ; only as to a portion of it. I had 
been through the Platte Valley, and knew something of the character 
of the country there. 

Q. You stated, in answer to Mr. Shellabarger, that the price of the 
work was put up on account of receiving part of the pay in stock. — 
A. I did not say that the price was put up, but the price was larger on 
that account, of course. 

Q. The price of the road was greater, because the payment to the 
contractor was made in stock, and not in cash ? — A. Yes. 

Q. In your judgment, was the amount of the two classes of bonds re- 
ceived from the company by the contractor enough to pay a fair price 
for the construction of the road, without counting in the stock at all ? — 
A. No ; I think it was not. 

Q. How much do you think it would fall short? — A. I cannot tell you 
exactly ; there was no market at that time for the first-mortgage bonds. 
The market had to be created, and the bonds popularized. 

Mr. Hoar. I am not speaking merely about their price in the market, 
but about their actual value. 

Witness. The market price is the actual value. I estimate what a 
bond or stock is worth by what it will bring in the New York stock- 
market. 

Mr. Hoar. I am asking about what you regard as the actual, intrinsic 
value of the two classes of bonds. 

Witness. At that time I would not have considered the first-mort- 
gage bonds worth more than 50 cents on the dollar, and the Government 
bonds 80 cents. I think that the Government bonds were sold at 85. I 
know that I bought a good many for 90, and had them a long time. 

Q. Leaving out now any question of legality or illegality, or of the 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 493 

propriety of the president of the road dealing with his brother in so 
large a transaction, but supposing that Mr. Oakes Ames had been an 
entire stranger to the managers of the road, and had been looking out 
solely for his own interests as contractor, and supposing the managers 
of the road had had no interest with him, and had been looking out 
solely for the interest of the company, and to get a contract as cheap 
as they could, do you think that the price agreed upon between them and 
Oakes Ames was a fair price, supposing the contract had been made 
under such circumstances"? — A. Yes, sir; I do. 

Q. State whether in your judgment it could or could not have been 
done cheaper by any other contractor, and, if prudence required it, by 
cutting up the work into sections instead of taking it in one long con- 
tract ? — A. I do not believe that we could have got responsible parties 
to take it at that price, outside of the parties who had put their money 
into it. 

Q. That is a point to which the committee would like you to give some 
careful reflection. I should, therefore, like to have you state any rea- 
sons within your knowledge bearing directly on the answer to that ques- 
tion. What can you tell us on that point? — A. The objections which 
outside parties would have had to taking the contract were the charac- 
ter of the country, the poor quality of most of the land, the difficulty 
and expense of getting lumber and materials there, the Indians, the 
alkali plains, and the Rocky Mountains. These were all reasons why 
you could not get responsible paities, except the parties who took the 
contract, to take it at the same pay. I know that I solicited good 
men, some of the first contractors of the country, men of material and 
means, to take the contract, and that they declined and refused to touch 
it at all. 

Q. Were there any efforts made within your knowledge to induce 
contractors who had no interest in the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
to take that contract ? — A. Yes. 

Q. What efforts were made ? — A. I spoke to a great many contractors. 
I wanted to know if they would not go out and take some contracts. 
They were experienced men, and men of capacity to execute contracts, 
and who had been engaged in building railroads, but they would not 
touch it at all, not one of them. 

Q. Do you know all the efforts that were made, by bringing the desire 
of the company to obtain contractors to the attention of the public, by 
advertisement, or by personal application to experienced contractors, 
or in any other way, such as are ordinarily made by railroad companies 
to procure bidders for contracts ? — A. I was not in the direction at the 
commencement, but after I became interested in the Credit Mobilier I 
solicited a great many men to become contractors. 

Q. You were also in the direction of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany as early as 1866 ? — A. Yes. 

Q. And have continued down to the present time ?— A. Yes. Your 
question was whether the company had taken measures to see whether 
the work could not be let out in small contracts. I did make several 
efforts in that direction. I had done a great deal of work in this coun- 
try, and had had a great many sub-contractors, but I could not get one 
of them to go out there. 

Q. What was the reason that they would not go there? — A. On ac- 
count of the wild country. The cactus grew there within two hundred 
miles of the Missouri River. The Rocky Mountains were a barrier, and 
so were the Indians. The Indians scalped some of our men within a 



494 CREDIT M0BILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

few miles of where the work was going on. Our men had to take 
rifles with them when they went to work. 

Q. How many men in the employment of the company were, killed or 
wounded by the Indians ? — A. I cannot tell you j there were a great 
many. 

Q. Give us the best information you have on the subject. — A. I sup- 
pose there were several hundred. The surveying parties were escorted 
by United States troops. The engineer who made the surveys for two 
or three hundred miles on this side of Cheyenne, was scalped and mur- 
dered after he got through, and his notes taken, and we had to get up 
another surveying party. The two engineers Hills and Brown were 
both killed. We have now got conductors on the road with their scalps 
off. 

Q. Can you give any other facts (which I should be glad to have you 
give with some detail) that tend to justify the opinion which you have 
expressed that it would have been impossible to have gotfrom a stranger 
a more favorable contract for the Union Pacific Eailroad Company than 
it had from the Credit Mobilier or from Mr. Oakes Ames ? — A. Those 
were the reasons, I believe. The country was considered by all those 
who had thought about it as the American desert, and the lands were 
considered of little value. The president of the road, Mr. Oliver Ames, 
went up the line two or three hundred miles with me-, and said that he 
would not take the lands as a gift, and that if anybody would give him 
twenty-five cents he would move a resolution in the board of directors 
to reject the land $ and I am sure that I would not'have accepted it. 

Q. One of the witnesses testified that the cost under the Oakes Ames 
contract to the persons who actually built the road — that six hundred 
and sixty-seven miles — was about $30,000,000 $ that the Government 
bonds and the first-mortgage bonds, which were actually received in 
payment for that construction, amounted to $30,015,000 $ (that includes 
the net value of all the stock, but, of course, no profits ;) and that the 
average time between the expenditure of money by persons who built 
the road for the purpose of completing it, and the re-irnbursernent of 
the money so expended by realizing the proceeds of those two classes 
of bonds, would be about three months. Now, can you give the com- 
mittee any information that will enable the committee to determine 
whether that opinion was or was not correct ?— A. I can only give you 
as a matter of opinion that it is not correct. It would take some figur- 
ing to see what the market price of the bonds was, &c. It is a question 
of detail. 

Mr. Hoar. I will give you time. It is a pretty important question, 
because it would seem to follow from that answer, if it were true, that 
all that the company gained, and all that the directors did for which 
they got a return, substantially of the whole capital stock of the road, 
was the bridging over that average of three months' period between 
the time of spending this money and the time of getting it back. If 
you think that you can give us any facts that will enable u$ to deter- 
mine whether that is or is not a correct statement, I shall be glad to 
have you consider it, and present any statement on the subject now or 
hereafter that occurs to you. 

Witness. I can do that, but I will require some statistics in relation 
to the price of bonds, &c. 

Mr. Hoar. If you do not consider that you are familiar enough with 
the general subject to be able to do that, I will not ask you further. 

Witness. I am not. Another objection to getting parties to take 
hold of the Union Pacific Railroad, (it was so with myself and a good 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 495 

many others whom I talked to,) was that the Government had five di- 
rectors in the company, who had not any interest in it, except to get 
their traveling expenses and salary. They were not permitted by law 
to hold any stock. The work was subject to the approval of these com- 
missioners, who were likely to be appointed for political considerations. 
And, of course, my own opinion was that they would be men not likely 
to know anything about the construction of railroads, and that they 
would harass and embarrass us a good deal. 

Q. You think that the difficulty of building the road was increased 
by the fact that five members of the direction were to be appointed by 
the Government to represent its interest? — A. Yes; men having no 
interest in the road, except to receive their per diem and traveling ex- 
penses. 

Q. You do not regard the obligation to perform a public duty as of 
any weight ? — A. Not in that capacity — a director without any interest, 
but the reverse. That was a great objection. 

• Q. Perhaps, on consideration, that will occur to you as the reason 
why you did not serve on that special committee to examine into the 
item of $126,000 for special legal expenses. — A. No, sir; that was not 
the reason. A man might do something on that committee by which 
he would compromise himself, and a man can be on a committee and not 
compromise himself. I infer that it is your idea that I would not go on 
that committee because I feared there might be something in it to com- 
XDromise me. I have been on a great many committees where I dissented 
from the majority, and I could have gone on that committee and dis- 
sented from everything it did, and therefore have no responsibility. 

Q. Perhaps you are not aware that one gentleman appointed on that 
committee has testified that, among the reasons for his declining to serve 
on the committee, was that he did not want to know anything about the 
transaction, because he feared he might be compromised. — A. I think 
his fears were somewhat realized. 

Q. Did you share in that apprehension at all ? — A. Not at all. I could 
be on that committee, or any other committee, and its acts would have 
involved me in no responsibility or compromised me. If there was any- 
thing I did not like, I could call the yeas and nays, and vote against it, 
and thus be on the record. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you know what was paid to Davis for the assignment of his 
contract to the trustees ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Was there anything paid to him I — A. I do not know that there 
was. I do not think that that claim has ever been settled. I think he 
made a small claim for $2,000. 

Q. Did he ever bring an action against the company, or against the 
board of trustees? — A. Yes, sir; I think that he and his associates did. 
Davis, Sprague & Co. were his associates, I think. 

Q. What was that suit for % — A. For extra work ; work which he was 
ordered to do outside of his contract. 

Q. Did he ever do any Work under that contract himself? — A. Yes, 
I think he did. I think he did a very large amount of work, himself and 
his associates, in providing ties and timber, &c. 

Q. I am speaking about the contract for the construction of the road — 
for building the road west of the Oakes Ames contract. — A. I am not 
sure about that. 

Q. He did have a contract west of the Oakes Ames contract ? — A. 
Yes. 



496 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Was any consideration paid to him, or agreed to be paid to him, 
for that assignment? — A. I do not know whether there was an agree- 
ment, or whether he received anything. My impression is that he made 
a claim for $2,000. 

Q. When the contract was made, he at the same time agreed to as- 
sign it to those trustees, did he not ? — A. He did assign it. 

Q. Bid he not agree to assign it ? — A. I was not present. 

Q. Was not that your understanding? — A. The first that I knew any- 
thing of it, the contract was made and assigned. I met Mr. Durant 
in a railroad-car, several hundred miles from where he had made the 
contract, and he showed it to mej that is all I know about it. 

Q. Do you know why it was that this particular mode was resorted to 
for the purpose of getting the contract into the hands of these trustees ? — 
A. 1 do not know, except that the men who were on the road, and who 
had the balance of the work, were better calculated to finish it up. 

Q. Why, then, was not the contract made directly with the trustees ? — 
A. That I cannot tell you. 

Q. Were you connected with the road at the time the difficulty oc- 
curred at New York, when the Fisk raid was made ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Do you know anything in regard to large amounts of subscriptions 
by Mr. John B. Alley to the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, at that time ? — A. That was prior to the raid made at the office. 

Q. How long prior? — A. Some months. I was sick at home at that 
time — at the time of that attempted stock subscription by Alley and 
Fisk and Blair. 

Q. Do you know the amount of stock which Alley and Fisk and Blair 
subscribed for at that time ? — A. No, sir ; nothing but what is in these 
pamphlets. That is all I know about it. I was not in the city at the 
time it was done, I was sick at the time. 

By the Ch airm an : 

Q. Do you know a tract of land known as Initial Point? — A. I know 
the initial point of the Union Pacific Railroad. I never knew of any 
other "initial point." That point was fixed as the initial point of the 
road by the President of the United States. 

Q. Do you know who owns the land there? — A. No, sir; I do not. 

Q. Where do you call the initial point ? — A. Between two and three 
miles above the city of Omaha, at the river, on the Nebraska side. 

Q. Is that where the bridge is built across the river ? — A. No, sir ; it 
is two miles below. 

Q. What was the reason for putting the bridge two miles below 
that? — A. There was found to be less crossing, and equal accommoda- 
tion, &c. 

Q. Do you know of the Credit Mobilier owning any land about 
there ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know of any persons connected with the Credit Mobilier 
owning any land there? — A. No, sir: I do not. 

Q. Is tbere some laud there on which it has been contemplated to 
erect a depot, &c. ? — A. Not that I am aware of, or ever heard of. 

Q. Then you do not know anything about it? — A. No, sir, if you 
speak of the initial point of the Union Pacific Railroad. 

Q. Do you know of the Credit Mobilier owning any land in that 
neighborhood ? — A. Not in that State. 

Q. Do you know of their owning any land in Iowa ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Where is it? — A. It is on the bottom-lands between Council Bluffs 
and the river. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 497 

Q. Has it been in contemplation to put the depots of the road on that 
side of the river? — A. Not that I am aware of — not by the Union Pa- 
cific Railroad Company. I believe that some of the people over in 
Council Bluffs contemplated putting it there ; but the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company never did, that I heard of; they have no status there. 

Q. How much land is there in a body between Council Bluffs and the 
river? — A. About GOO acres ; and a small purchase since that, which I 
do not know about. 



Washington, D. C, February 1, 1873 

Sidney Dillon recalled and examined. 
By Mr. Hoar : 

Question. Please narrate as briefly as possible the transaction about 
these lands at Council Bluffs, as you understand it. — Answer. We 
bought of Edgerton a tract of land in Council Bluffs on the flats on the 
Iowa side, of about, I will say, a thousand acres, costing $40,000. It 
was about the time of the organization, or soon after the organization, 
of the Credit Mobilier, a year or so after. Two or three years after, we 
bought, I think, about 250 acres at the same place, which cost about the 
same amount as the first did, being in a location where ^e thought it 
would be needed for a depot or a transfer ground for the Union Pacific 
Eailroad — provided the transfer ground should be made there. We 
hold those lands still. 

Q. Have you ever seen the report of Mr. Dodge undertaking to locate 
the initial point of the Union Pacific Eailroad on that site of the river 
and on those lands ? — A. I do not know that I saw a report of his ; but 
there has been a good deal of discussion about it. 

Q. What discussion ? — A. A part claimed that the initial point should 
be on the easterly side of the river, and others claimed that it was at 
the actual initial poiut ; others claimed that it was at the western bound- 
ary of the State of Iowa, which was at the water-line, I suppose. Those 
were the points in discussion. 

Q. You say you have never seen that report of Dodge ? — A. I might 
have seen it ; but I do not recollect it now. The Credit Mobilier has a 
few lots of ground at Columbus ; but they are worth but a very small 
amount. 

Q. What is the present property of the Credit Mobilier ? — A. As near 
as I can understand, the books show that the present property consists 
(and I think Mr. Ham has testified to it) of those lands at Council Bluffs, 
the lands at Columbus — a small amount of lands there — and a claim, as 
we say, against the Union Pacific Eailroad Company for about in the 
neighborhood of $2,000,000. 

Q. How much do you value all the assets of the Credit Mobilier at to- 
day ? — A. Well, sir, if the initial point 

Q. I do not care about going into the question as to any contingen- 
cies which would affect it in one way or another, but taking into account 
the actual present condition of things as you understand it, what do you 
value the assets of the Credit Mobilier at ? — A. At the present time the 
lands at Council Bluffs may be worth $150,000, and the lands at Colum- 
bus, I think, would be worth $5,000. There are no other assets of any 
great amount that I can recollect now, unless the claim for $2,000,00*0 
that I have just spoken of. 

Q. What do you consider the claim for $2,000,000 against the Union 
32 c M 



498 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Pacific Railroad worth in fact? — A. Well, a claim against the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company, as long as their note has never gone to pro- 
test, must be considered good. 

Q. And you think that claim of $2,000,000 against the Union Pacific 
Railroad is worth $2,000,000 ? But is not your claim more than $2,000,- 
000— something like $2,700,000 ?— A. I do not think the debit and credit 
will show it that much. I think it will go very little over $2,000,000. 

Q. Is it not a little over $2,500,000 according to the vote of the 
directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company? — A. We have had 
something on account since that time which reduces it. 

Q. What have you had on account since that last vote fixing it at 
$2,500,000? — A. I can't say; but we have had something on account. 
Mr. Ham was the book-keeper, and he stated about that here the other 
day. 

Q. Then in round numbers you think the property of the Credit Mo- 
bilier is somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,200,000 in actual value ? — 
A. Yes, sir ; if that note or claim which I speak of is collected — if it is 
worth that. 

Q. Why don't you collect it ? — A. Well, the reason that I did not try 
to collect it was the inability — that is to say, I did not wish to under- 
take to cramp the company. 

Q. Do you think that if you undertook to collect it it would render 
the company bankrupt? — A. I don't know that it would. 

Q. What is your opinion ? — A. Well, I think it might hurt them. 

Q. In your judgment, is or is not the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
saved from bankruptcy by the forbearance of the Credit Mobilier to 
enforce a debt on demand ? — A. No ; I don't think they are. 

Q. Do you not think that if the Credit Mobilier should undertake to 
enforce that debt it would cause the Union Pacific Railroad Company to 
go into bankruptcy? — A. No, sir. 

Q. What do you think would happen ? — A. I think they would fight 
us a while, and that before they had to pay the debt, the business of 
the company would increase so much that they would be able to pay it, 

Q. You think they would fight you ? — A. Yes, before they would go 
into bankruptcy. 

Q. Fight you until their business increased enough to enable them to 
pay it? — A. Yes; that is what I should do. 

Q. And that is your expectation as to what they will do if you attempt 
to collect it? — A. I say that is what they naturally would do rather 
than go into bankruptcy, supposing that it would throw them there. 

Q. But suppose you should get a judgment against thein for that 
$2,000,000 within six months, should you think that would force them 
into bankruptcy ? — A. I don't think that is a supposable case — that we 
could get a judgment in six mouths, at least in the city of New York. 

Q. You have got a note of hand ? — A. We have got a note of hand, 
but they claim that it is not a valid note. 

Q. Is there any valid defense against that claim so far as you know ? 
— A. I don't know of any. 

Q. You do not know of any reason why it ought not to be paid ?— A. 
I don't know of any reason. 

Q. Is there any other reason why it is not paid except your desire not 
to embarrass the Union Pacific Railroad Company at present? — A. I 
don't know of any other reason. 

Q. Was your valuation of the lands at Council Bluffs predicated upon 
the initial point of the railroad being commenced there ? — A. The initial 
point is on the other side of the river where the stake was stuck down — 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 499 

what was fixed as the initial point by Mr. Lincoln, so that there conld 
not be any other initial point. 

Q. Is the valuation which you have placed upon the land there predi- 
cated upon its being wanted for the business purposes of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company at some early day? — A. No, sir. 

Q. The valuation which you have given is independent of any such 
expectation? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you not think that the company will require that land for its 
business purposes at an. early day? — A. A small part of it. 

Q. If they use a small part of it at an early day do you not expect 
that that will very much enhance the value of the residue ? — A. It will 
enhance the value of about half of it; the other half is low ground, 
which it would not enhance. 

Q. A good deal o£ that land is subject to overflow ? — A. A portion 
of it. 

Q. How much, in your judgment, would it be worth if the railroad 
company would take part of it for a depot ? — A. I think that would 
double it." 

Q. Can you form any estimate of the effect upon the value of it 1 — A. 
It might be worth $400,000 if the depot was established there. 

Q. You think it would double or a little more than double the value, 
and that is all? — A. I think so. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. How much of the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
does the Credit Mobilier now hold ? — A. I think it is less than 2,000 
shares — 1,500, or something like that. 

Q. When was that stock acquired that is now held by the Credit 
Mobilier ? — A. It was acquired a long time ago, I don't know exactly 
when — several years ago. 

Q. Is the Credit Mobilier engaged in any business enterprise now of 
any kind ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. How long since it has been so engaged ? — A. It never has been 
since I have been president. 

Q. When did you become president ? — A. In May, 1867. 

Q. Since the Oakes Ames contract the Credit Mobilier has had no 
business whatever except to settle up its affairs ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And it has held those 1,500 or 2,000 shares of Union Pacific Rail- 
road stock ever since you have been president ? — A. I think it has ; but 
I can't say for certain. 

Q. Have you been in any way counected with the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company; and, if so, in what way, and since when? — A. I have 
been a director of the Union Pacific Railroad from 1866, I think. 

Q. Are any of the Government directors interested in those lands 
held by the Credit Mobilier ?— A. No, sir. 

Q. Have they been so interested ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. None of them at any time ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether the chief engineer of the road, General 
Dodge, located by a special description the initial point of the road 1 — 
A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know whether the bonds that have been received by the 
company have been received according to a measurement from a point 
that had been specifically located by somebody ? — A. What bonds. 

Q. I mean Government bonds. — A. I don't know, sir. 

Q. Were you a stockholder in the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
prior to 1866 ? — A. I think I was. 



500 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. When did you first become a stockholder ? — A. That I can't tel* 
you. 

Q. When did you first become a stockholder in the Credit Mobilier ? — 
A. April 20, 1865. 

Q. Were you in Washington at the time that the legislation of 1864 
was pending*? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know anything in regard to this " suspense account" which 
has been spoken of? — A. I do not. 

Q. Was that matter ever before the board of directors of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company when you were present? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you ever heard that matter discussed in the board ? — A. I 
have not, sir. 

Q. Have you ever heard the individual members of the board discuss- 
ing that? — A. I have not; I had nothing to do with it. 

Q. Were you in Washington at the time the legislation of 1871 was 
pending? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you at the meeting of the board when this item of $126,000 
was under consideration? — A. I don't know whether I ever heard it 
spoken of at all, the $126,000 that you speak of. I live in New York, 
and the board is in Boston ; and I don't know whether I was there at 
the time that you have been speaking about to-day or not,- I might have 
been there ; but if I was, as I knew nothing about the transactions going 
on around Washington or anywhere else, I knew nothing about this, 
and never heard anything about it. 

Q. Do you know anything about it now ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Do you know of any moneys having been paid by any person or 
persons connected with the Union Pacific Eailroad Company to any 
member of Congress or officer of the Government ? — A. I do not. 

Q: Directly or indirectly ?— A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you any information of such moneys having been paid ? — A. 
Nothing only what I have heard in this room. 

Q. Were you present at the time that the proposition was made to ex- 
tend the Hoxie contract over a portion of the road that had been already 
constructed?— A. I might have been, but I clo not bear it in mind. 

Q. Do you remember the fact that that thing was attempted to be 
done? — a. Well, I can remember that there was some talk about it; but 
that is all I can remember. 

Q. Do you know the object of extending that contract over fifty-eight 
miles of road that had been already constructed? — A. Which contract? 

Q. The- Hoxie contract. Do you remember a proposition that was., 
made by J. M. S. Williams ?— A. I remember that there was a proposi- 
tion made. 

Q. Do you remember that, at the time it was made, he had agreed in 
writing that he would assign that contract to the Credit Mobilier ? — A. 
How long a contract ? 

Q. Fifty-eight miles or more. — A. I think that is the fact, but I can- 
not swear positively about it. 

Q. What was the purpose of extending that Hoxie contract over that 
piece of road that had been already constructed ? — A. I am not able to 
say. 

Q. Was it for any other purpose than to put profits into the treasury 
of the Credit Mobilier ?— A. I can't tell you ;, I do not recollect that 
part of it. 

Q. You do not recollect what did take place f — A. I do not. 

Q. At the time the Oakes Ames contract was let there was a large 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 501 

amount of road constructed and accepted by the Government ? — A. 
Partially accepted. 

Q. Was there any partial acceptance on the part of the Govern- 
ment? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In what respect % — A. Well, at times on that road the Government 
directors, in some instances where there was not a depot up, or a tank 
up, or where there was some other little thing unfinished, would accept 
that piece of road, 20 miles or so, or whatever it might be, on condi- 
tion that it should be finished before they came again, with the agree- 
ment that if it was not finished then according to the acceptance by 
the Government, they would not give a certificate for anything more. 

Q. Were those agreements or understandings put in writing? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. You had that kind of verbal agreement with the commissioners ? — 
A. There were one or two instances of that kind ; it was not a general 
thing. 

Q. Do you recollect who were the Government commissioners who 
did that? — A. I do not recollect now; there were several Government 
commissioners on the line. 

Q. At the time these acceptances were made that you have spoken of, 
was there any considerable amount of work remaining to be done ? — A. 
Not a large amount. 

Q. Would it require any considerable expenditure of money to make 
those parts of the road in accordance with the requirements of the 
law ? — A. Not a large expenditure. 

Q. Then will you explain what was the object in letting a contract to 
Mr. Oakes Ames for the construction of a large piece of road that had 
already been accepted by the Government, and which was at least sub- 
stantially completed, requiring no large expenditure of money to com- 
plete it ? — A. I don't know that there was that amount of the line 
accepted by the Government prior to that contract. 

Q. Suppose it is a fact that there were one hundred and thirty-eight 
miles of the road already accepted by the Government, would you then 
be able to explain how it came that that contract was let for building 
that portion of the road which was already built ? — A. The only explana- 
tion that I can make is this: That there were other things to do on 
that piece of road^-tkings necessary to be done, which the Oakes Ames 
contract would have to take care of ; and, likewise, that it was not of 
any consequence to the company — the contractors, if you please to call 
them so — how it was arranged. They made an estimate that they would 
build that road from a certain point to a certain point, and complete 
everything that was necessary to be done on it, for so much a mile ; 
and if they had not taken in that work they would have increased the 
price to the same amount. 

Q. Why could not they just as well have let the contract from the 
point to which the road had beeii. completed as to start at the hundredth 
meridian ? — A. I can't see the difference whether it was done that way 
or the other way, but I say, as there were some small items along there 
that were necessary to be attended to, it was thought best at the time to 
have the Oakes Ames contract to cover that road complete, everything 
clean and in proper shape. 

Q. Not very long after the Oakes Ames contract was let there were 
very large dividends made among the shareholders of the Credit Mobilier, 
were there not ? — A. That may be, sir 5 but it does not necessarily fol- 
low that that part of the road should have been placed with the balance 
of the work. 



502 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Where did the trustees get the stocks and the bonds which they 
divided up among the shareholders of the Credit Mobilier in less than 
sixty days after this contract was made ? — A. They got them of the com- 
pany, I suppose. 

Q. Did they get them of the company for work done under the 
Oakes Ames contract, or for work that had been done prior to the let- 
ting of the Oakes Ames contract? — A. The contract was made taking it 
from the one hundredth meridian to the end of the Oakes Ames con- 
tract. 

Q. Do you wish to be understood as saying that within less than sixty 
days after the Oakes Ames contract was let the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company turned over to the trustees the price of constructing the road 
that had been already constructed at the prices specified in the Oakes 
Ames contract ? — A. I wish to be understood to say that they received 
an estimate on that work which was done — you may call it an estimate, 
if you please — sufficient to make that amount. 

. Q. Do you 'wish to be understood,, then, in this way: that they re- 
ceived an estimate at the rate of the Oakes Ames contract for the 
amount of work that was done, and that they paid that amount less the 
amount that the construction of the road had cost the company ? — A. 
It is out of my mind about the amounts you speak of being so many mil- 
lions — that I do not assent to or dissent from- — but I say again, that the 
cost of the contract made by Oakes Ames with the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company being agreed upon, taking the road from the one hun- 
dredth meridian to the point where it ended, after that contract was 
made and certain things done, which probably it was necessary to do, 
there might have been an estimate made on the part which had been 
done by the company or by Hoxie, or anybody else ; and it was due to 
the contractor, Oakes Ames, to receive it as apart of the contract which 
he was to fulfill. 

Q. I ask you whether a large portion of that which was divided up 
among the shareholders of the Credit Mobilier was not obtained by 
taking the difference between what that road had cost the company 
and the prices under the Oakes Ames contract ? — A. I suppose it was. 
We took that contract for four hundred miles of the road. Now we take 
that contract; we include, if you please, a piece that is accepted by the 
Government directors, (assuming that it was so; I can't say whether it 
was so or not ;) we include that, and we say that we will do the work for 
so much per mile the entire distance. We say, if you will throw in this 
number of miles that is done, we will do the entire road under our con- 
tract for so much per mile. Now, I claim as a contractor, (which has 
been my business all my life,) that if I had taken that contract of the 
company, and if I had not built one mile of the road beyond that point, 
unless it was stipulated in the contract that I was not to receive any- 
thing until the hundred miles was completed — I claim that 1 could 
call upon the company according to th« letter of the contract, and that 
it would be just as much my right to get that excess on that piece of 
road which it was my right to build, as of any of the rest of it; for the 
reason, that while there may be a profit of $10,000 or $20,000, or $50,000 
a mile, there may be a loss of $10,000 or $20,000 or $50,000 a mile. 
Therefore, I put the two together, and I say that my right is just as 
great to take the compensation for that part of the road, if it was put 
into the contract, whether it was finished or unfinished at the time, as 
to take any other part. 

Q. That is, you claim there is just as much right, and no more im- 
propriety in your taking that price for the one hundred and thirty-eight 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 503 

miles already completed than there would be if you built a road, and 
if there had not been a shovel stuck into the ground until you set to 
work? — A. I do claim so, sir. I claim that if that road had not been 
taken, the price of the balance would have been increased sufficient to 
make the amount the same. 

Q. How do you ascertain that? Did you have estimates by engineers 
before you commenced making that contract '? — A. There were estimates. 

Q. I suppose they were guided, in some degree by the estimates of the 
engineers in letting the contract for making the road"? — A. They were 
guided to a certain extent. 

Q. And the directors had access to those estimates of the engineers 
with reference to making their contracts I suppose ? — A. They were 
guided to a certain extent in that way ; but there was no engineer this 
side of heaven that could give anything more than an approximate esti- 
mate of what was to be done on that road, and you had to go by your 
own judgment of the character of the country, and run your risk. 

Q. Was the character of the country pretty well understood at that 
date, 1867 ? — A. I don't think it was as well understood as has been 
represented. 

Q. Had not the surveys been made, and was it not well understood 
where the road was to be I — A. Some parts of that road were very 
poorly located ; that is to say, the estimates would be to run along this 
side of a hill, and it would have to go on the other side of the hill; and 
where there were estimates of grades of 80 or 90 feet, or whatever it 
might be, the grade had to be changed, and many such things as that, 
and we had to run a hazard on it. 

Q. What is the highest grade on the road now? — A. Ninety feet, 

Q. Was it not ascertained long before this contract was let that the 
highest grades would not exceed 90 feet ? — A. That may be, sir ; but that 
does not govern the cost of building the road, just because they estab- 
lish a line and say the grade is so and so. 

Q. I am only referring to this for the purpose of ascertaining from 
you whether the general character of the country was understood pretty 
well before the Oakes Ames contract was let ? — A. Not sufficiently. Not 
that any sane man would have been safe to have gone in and taken that 
contract — one single man. 

Q. Why do you say one single man % — A. I mean unless there was 
large capital back of him. 

Q. What was the understanding at the time the Oakes Ames contract 
was made as to who was to perform that contract or who was to get the 
benefit of it % — A. What do you mean by who was to get the benefit 
of it? 

Q. I want to know what, if any, understanding there was at the time 
the Oakes Ames contract was let as to who was to have the benefit of 
that contract and whovwas to execute it, so far as building the road was 
concerned ? — A. The contract was taken by Mr." Oakes Ames as an indi- 
vidual ; but though it was at one time in his possession as an individual, 
without any writing, as I understand it, or obligation to transfer it, I 
suppose it was meant that it should be transferred to the stockhold- 
ers of the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. As you understand it, then, that was the understanding at the 
time the Oakes Ames contract -was made 1 ? — A. I understand that Mr. 
Oakes Ames had it in his power to have held it as his contract; that it 
was made to Mr. Oakes Ames as an individual, but that morally it 
belonged to the stockholders — those who owned stock in the Credit 
Mobilier. 



504 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC KAILROAD, 

Q. And they all understood it in tliat way, did they ? — A. I don't 
know. I don't suppose all did, for I do not suppose half of them knew 
anything about it at all until after it was made; but some of them 
understood it so. 

Q. I believe you are one of the seven trustees ! — A. I be, sir. 

Q. You have been one of the trustees all the while under the Oakes 
Ames contract ? — A. I have. 

Q. You have heard these resolutions read by Mr. Duff on the stand?— 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In what way were these large amounts of stock which the treas- 
urer was directed to subscribe for, as stated in these resolutions, paid 
for by the trustees ! — A. They were paid for, as I understand it, by 
checks given to the trustees for constructing the work under the 
Oakes Ames contract. 

Q. Do you mean by that that the railroad company gave to the trus- 
tees checks for amounts that were due on account of construction I — 
A. I do. 

Q. And that those checks were used to pay subscriptions of stock ? — 
A. I presume they were. 

Q. Were the bonds that are mentioned in these resolutions procured 
in the same way ? — A. I think they were. 

Q. What did it cost the trustees to do the work that was done under 
the Oakes Ames contract and the Davis contract ? — A. I don't know ; 
I live in New York, and the books and papers and everything are in 
Boston, and I have not had anything to do with it. 

Q. Has that matter ever been under consideration by the seven trus- 
tees ? — A. I don't think the seven trustees have brought it to a settle- 
ment or adjusted their accounts and made a statement to show exactly 
what it has cost yet. ; 

Q. W T ill you be so kind as to inform us who can furnish that informa- 
tion ? — A. If I was the chairman of that trusteeship, as Mr. Oliver 
Ames is, I should say that I could do it. He could do it now, I think ; 
he should be able do it. I am a trustee, but the books and papers are 
all in Boston, and I am in New York, and the only way that I could 
recommend is that the chairman of the trustees should furnish the in- 
formation. 

Q. Have you ever had any statement made up from the books show- 
ing the amount of profits that were made by the trustees on account of 
the Oakes Ames and the Davis contracts ? — A. I have never seen one. 

Q. Do you think it would be safe for this committee to assume that 
these dividends that have been declared, cash, stock, and bonds, at 
whatever the stocks and bonds may be worth — do you think it would 
be safe to assume that those dividends represent the profits made by 
the trustees under this contract? — A. You mean to ask if there is any- 
thing left behind. Wejl, I don't think there is. 

Q. If there is anything, what is it? — A. I can't tell you, only I have 
heard statements that the trustees' account was very close to a balance, 
but the exact amount that has been drawn out or made I cannot tell 
you. 

Q. Who made those statements that you heard ?— A. Well, the man 
who is in Boston there, Mr. Eice, I think, is his name. They were not 
statements exactly, but I asked him how this matter stood, and he said 
it was not very far from even. It was a random statement. 

Q. Do you mean to say that there is, so far as you are aware, nothing, 
or nearly nothing, due from the Union Pacific Railroad Company to 
these trustees? — A. I don't think there is much. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 505 

Q. When you said it was about " even" you meant that the accounts 
between the Union Pacific Railroad Company and the trustees were 
about even? — A. That is what I meant to say. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Do you know whether any consideration was paid to Davis, or 
promised to him, for the assignment of his contract to the trustees ? — A. 
I don't know whether there was any consideration promised. I know that 
I paid him at a certain time when there was a settlement of an account 
made up of other transactions, and I think I allowed him in that either 
three or five thousand dollars on account of the assignment of the con- 
tract to the trustees. 

Q. At the time that Davis contract was made did he agree to transfer 
it to the trustees? — A. I knew nothing about it until that agreement 
was made to transfer it, or until it was transferred ; I don't know which. 

Q. Has any Government director ever been a stockholder in the Credit 
Mobilier? — A. I don't know of any. 

Q. Did you ever transfer any stock to any Government director? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Or authorize it to be done? — A. No, sir $ not to my knowledge. 
There have been no transactions, much, in the thing since I took it. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. You have given to the chairman as an explanation of why that 
portion of the road west of the one hundredth meridian which was 
already completed at the date of the Oakes Ames contract was included 
in that contract, the statement that had it not been so included the 
other portion of the road that was not yet made would have been put 
up higher than it was, and would have made it come to the same thing 
on the average ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You were a member of the board of directors of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company at that time? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Your company procured the issuing by the Government, prior to 
the Oakes Ames contract, of all the bonds to which that part of the 
road west of the one hundredth meridian which was already completed 
was entitled ? — A. I suppose they did ; but it is not in my mind now 
when they were issued, whether before the Oakes Ames contract took 
possession of that or after. 

Q. They were issued before, as the 'record shows. Now, if they were 
so issued, then either the Government was wronged or else that work 
was done as required by the 4th section of the act under which you 
were making the road, which requires that the road shall be completed 
with "all necessary grades, culverts, viaducts, crossings, sidings, bridges, 
turnouts, watering-places, depots, equipments, furniture, and all other 
appurtenances for a first-class road." If that work was not done prior 
to the Oakes Ames contract, and those bonds were procured by you to 
be issued by the Government on that part of the road, then a fraud 
was committed on the Government in getting the bonds so issued before 
the work was done? — A. No; I don't think it would be a fraud if there 
was a small amount of work remaining to be done. In a case like that, 
where a road was pushed on at the rate of three or four miles a day, if 
there was a station or a water-.tank, or anything of that kind to be 
made, I don't think it was a fraud; I think it was a compromise between 
the Government commissioners and the trustees, although it might not 
have been very right to do it. 

Q. Here was a plain law requiring certain things to be done, and 
specifying them very particularly. — A. Exactly. 



506 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

Q. Now, if that work was not done substantially as required by that 
law, would not there have been a wrong committed against the Govern- 
ment if you got the bonds issued before it was done % — A. No, sir. May 
I tell you why ? 

Q. Certainly ; that is just what I want you to tell. — A. The reason is 
this : By getting those bonds a month or so sooner it would give us in- 
creased strength to build the next thirty or forty miles of road ; and 
thereby the Government would .get the road a year or two sooner ; and 
therefore it was no fraud on the Government, but a benefit to the Gov- 
ernment. 

Q. Was there any such substantial and material defect in the construc- 
tion of that portion of the road west of the one hundredth meridian, 
which had been accepted at the time Oakes Ames took his contract? — 
A. My memory is rather defective about it, but it seems to me that at 
the time that contract was. made there were certain things along there 
that wanted fixing up. To make it an entire clean thing from beginning 
to end, it was thought best to put that in and estimate it pro rata right 
through. 

Q. How much, did you estimate that Oakes Ames had to do on that 
part of the road whicli had been already accepted by the Government 
and the bonds issued for it ? — A. On a contract like that 

Q. Answer my question, if you please. — A. I can't answer it unless 
you allow me to explain. 

Q. Then, say you can't. — A. Well, I can't. 

Q. Then, when your company let the road, including this finished part 
for which the bonds had already been received, your company knew 
nothing about how much Oakes Ames would have to clo in order to 
complete it ? — A. I say there were some things unfinished, but how 
much there was I cannot say. 

Q. Would it amount to $100,000?— A. If you will let me explain a 
little 

Q. I always want to get an answer to my question first. — A. Well, you 
are a lawyer and I am not. You might be able to answer that question 
at once, but I can't answer it without an explanation. 

Q. Then answer it with an explanation. — A. My answer is this : On a 
contract as large as that which the trustees were taking, if it had been 
$100,000, or $200,000, or $50,000, or any such sum, they would not have 
gone into an estimate so closely as if it had been a* small contract, and 
therefore all that was done was this : it was said there are certain things 
still to be done on that, and that piece of road was put in with the bal- 
ance of the work. 

Q. But you cannot tell whether those certain things that remained to 
be done amounted to $50,000 in your estimates, or $100,000, or what 
they did amount to ? — A. I have no estimate to make. I don't know the 
details, but I know there was something to be done at that time on that 
part of the road. 

Q. You have undertaken to give a reason why your directors included 
two or three hundred miles of finished road — so finished that you had 
drawn the bonds for it — in a contract at prices of from $42,000 to $45,000 
a mile. — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, I want you to give us, if you can, an approximate estimate 
of what you counted the work remaining to be done on that piece of 
road at, in letting it under the Oakes Ames contract? — A. I have no 
estimate to give you, sir. 

Q. Had the board of directors of the Union Pacific Kailroad any 
at the time? — A. The board considered that it was not fully finished 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 507 

and, to make the thing complete, the proposition was made to put that 
in and do whatever was required to complete it, and put the whole at so 
much a mile. 

Q. That you have told us several times. — A. Well, that is the only 
explanation I can give you. 

Q. But can you tell me whether the board, at the time they let the 
contract to Oakes Ames, made any estimate of what it would cost to 
finish the work according to law? — A. I don't know that they made 
an estimate ; they made it in the way that I have told you — that they 
considered there was something to be done there, and he agreed to do 
it. 

Q. I will now call your attention to a statement made by your vice- 
president, Mr, Duraut. Speaking of the risk of Oakes Ames when he 
took this contract, he says : " The risk would have been somewhat mod- 
ified by the fact that between two and three hundred miles of this road 
embraced in tbis contract had been actually completed, and the differ- 
ence in price between the actual cost of which and the contract price 
amounted to upwards of three millions of dollars." Now, if that state- 
ment is true, why did your company pay that $3,000,000 of profit on a 
then completed road, on that contract? — A. My answer is, that if they 
had not paid it on that they would have paid it on the balance of the 
road; it was the same thing one way as the other; if they had not 
taken that into consideration the estimates on the balance would have 
been that much more. 

Q. Let us see about that. Had you made surveys or estimates, which 
were submitted to Mr. Ames or to your company, and upon which resi- 
due of the six hundred and sixty-seven miles were actually let, and did 
you know what it would probably cost from those estimates then sub- 
mitted ? — A. No, sir; there never was an estimate made there but what 
was an approximate estimate, so that any contractors that ever took the 
work could not go by it ; the contractors would have to take it at great 
risk and use their own judgment. 

Q. How did your company know, then, that it would be right or wrong 
if, as you say, no estimates had been made, and if they knew little about 
the residue of the road — how did they know that it would come to about 
the same to thus include the finished part of the road along with the 
unfinished part, when you say they knew nothing about the unfinished 
part % — A. We knew enough about the proximate location of the road 
to form estimates which we were willing to risk the building of that road 
upon, whether it went higher or lower. 

Q. Then how did it help you to get at a just price for the unfinished 
part to include in it the finished part about which you did know all that 
was necessary % — A. I do not think it helped us at all. I say it would 
not help us. 

Q. Then why did you put them together? — A. For the reason, I say, 
that there were some things that we considered at the time were not 
finished on that road, and it was a matter of convenience to have it all 
together. 

Q. Why didn't you make a contract with Ames for the finished part 
and pay him for it separately % — A. I have answered that three or four 
times. As I said before, it was because it was a matter of convenience, 
because w r e considered that that part was not finished, and I say now 
that if that part had not been placed in that contract the balance would 
have cost that much more, and it was no injury to the company or any- 
body else whether that was put on to the balance of the road or "whether 
it was cut off at that point. 



508 CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Is that all the explanation you have to give — that it was a matter 
of convenience % — A. That is the explanation. 

Q. Was not about the first thing you did after you made this conven- 
ient arrangement to divide up these $3,000,000 profits in the shape of 
dividends % — A. I do not know, sir ; I have not got the date. 

Q. Had the Evans Pass been adopted as the route that you would 
take for your road at the date of the Oakes Ames contract ?— A. I think 
it was, but I cannot say now for certain. 

Q. The general character of the route was well known at the time of 
the Oakes Ames contract, was it not % — A. It was not closely defined, 
so that no person could bring the cost of the work down to a close mar- 
gin. I didn't consider it so. 

Q. Why did you let it before it was surveyed and estimated %— A. 
We wanted to finish that road as soon as we could, and if we had 
waited for such things, if we had gone on and located the road in the 
way that it is done in the Eastern States, putting down a stake every 
100 feet, and making up the quantity so as to know to a few yards what 
there is in it, we would have had to keep an army to protect our engi- 
neers ; they were scalped, some of them, as it was, and the thing would 
have taken so long a time that it was thought best not to do' it. 

Q. That is not an answer to my question. I would like to know why 
it would not have been wiser for the company to have gone on as they 
began, by letting sections like that which they let to Hoxie, letting a 
small part of the road, the character of which was well known at the 
date of the letting, so that the company could protect itself against ex- 
orbitant prices. Why didn't you pursue that policy after you got be- 
yond the one hundredth meridian, letting, say two hundred miles at a 
time, that you knew all about, and constructing that, with proper sur- 
veys, estimates, &c, and then, when you got that done, proceed with the 
next % — A. Well, in the first place, you could not find any contractors 
that would have gone out there and made an estimate on that work 
who would have done it as cheaply as Oakes Ames did it, because of 
the risk by Indians, and on account of not knowing the country, and 
the great expense of hauling material, &c. Imagine a small contractor, 
having two or four miles of road, a hundred miles out, with the Indians 
driving his men off or killing them. It was as much impossible to have 
let that work to small contractors, and to have got it done by this time, 
as it is to do any other impossible thing. 

Q. But you had until 1876 to do it. There was no need for haste, 
unless that need arose out of the condition of the country. The law 
did not require such haste. — A. No, sir ; the law did. not require it. 

Q. What was it, then, that did require the haste \ — A. Well, sir, I 
can only say to you that the parties who were interested in it were anx- 
ious to build that road rapidly. I, for one, at the time that we started, 
or some time after we started it, felt very ambitious to build that road, 
and to build it quick, even if it cost more money, and therefore the 
Oakes Ames contract, as I considered always, was made more to carry 
out that idea than it was to steal the proceeds of the road ; the parties 
who were interested in it being so many in number and beiug capital- 
ists, so that if they did happen to lose a little something out of it it 
would not hurt them the same as it would hurt an individual. 

Q. Let me see if I can state your explanation correctly. It is that 
the condition of the country, the danger from Indians, the great re- 
moteness of the country from ordinary means of transportation, and all 
that, were such that a man would not incur the risks and dangers of 
such work unless he had a very large contract out of which he might 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 509 

expect to make liberally, if he incurred those hazards f — A. Yes, I do 
say so. 

Q. And that it was therefore impracticable to let the work* in small 
quantities, because for small quantities men would not take those risks?— 
A. Yes, sir, I say so. I know that to be a fact, for I have been build- 
ing railroads all my life, and in this case I tried to get some of my old 
contractors — men that have worked for me for years — and the only par- 
ties that we ever got out there were some track-layers, and at that time 
I had to make a guarantee to them that they should be all right, or else 
they wouldn't start the work at all. 

Q. There was some testimony given here, perhaps it was before you 
were in 'the room, tending to show that instrumental surveys had been 
actually made and returned before the Oakes Ames contract was let for 
the entire line, and that those were accompanied by estimates of quan- 
tities, but not of values or cost. Is that true according to your recollec- 
tion '? — A. No, sir; there might have been surveys made and lines laid 
out, but there never was one that was surveyed accurately at all. 
About the time that we began grading along the line, many a time we 
were up to the engineers with the grading, and had to stop so as to get 
the location in the most desirable place. I say there was no location of 
the line made there before that time, which defined the thing sufficiently 
so that any one could make a close estimate. I know of what I speak, 
for I was out there a good deal, and. slept many a night on those 
prairies. 

Q. I did not intend to intimate that that testimony tended to show 
that there were such complete surveys as are ordinarily made, but 
that there were surveys and estimates. We have not been able to 
learn just how lull those surveys were, but we have learned that 
there were surveys made before the letting of the Oakes Ames con- 
tract 1 — A. There were; but they were very inaccurate. Some were 
for one side of a stream and some for the other. Some were for one 
side of a hill and some for the other. It was merely a preliminary 
survey of that country to show that a road could be built there j that 
is all they were, in my estimation. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. You were asked by Mr. Shellabarger as to your opinion of the prac- 
ticability of making contracts for the construction of this road either in 
small pieces or with strangers ; state to the committee any facts which 
you may desire them to know as to any attempts which were made to 
give the railroad contractors of the country notice of the desire of this 
railroad company to let contracts for the construction of this road. — A. 
Well, sir, the notice that was given in that case was the same as I al- 
ways give when I am building a hundred miles, or any large quantity 
of road ; the same as I have done on all the work that ever I have let 
for the last twenty years, that is to say, to go to Mr. Hoar, or Mr. Duff, 
or Mr. Shellabarger, or to write them a letter, if they are old contract- 
ors Of mine, and if I know them to be good men, and say to them, " I 
have got a piece of work and I want you to go out there and do it." By 
advertising work of that kind, putting it out broadcast to the world T we 
get so many irresponsible parties, men that come with bundles of rec- 
ommendations as big as a Bible,, and those that have the most are the 
poorest, and the first thing you know you get the work into irresponsi- 
ble hands and it is delayed. But I say to this committee now, that I, 
Mr. Duff, and others, endeavored to get men to go out on the line of that 
road, and did succeed in getting some men to go out and take some 



510 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC KAILROAD. 

small pieces of the work where they knew they would, not be killed ; 
but in my opinion it was impossible to have got contractors that were 
responsible to have gone out and built that road in the ordinary way in 
which roads are built, and I am sure that if it had been attempted to 
do it in that way it would have taken us about three or four years longer 
to have finished the road. I think, myself, that we made a mistake. 
We threw away millions on that road to hasten the road through, and I 
know it, and if the work was to be done over again, and I was to make 
my dollars out of it, 1 would not build it so soon by two or three years ; 
but we got into it and got to going ahead, and we laid our track at the 
rate of four or five miles a day, so that instead of costing $600 a mile it 
cost us $1,500 a mile. That is the way we went on, and that is how it 
cost us to drive it at that kind of way. 

Q. Was not one of the motives for that haste the fear of being inter- 
rupted by Congress if the fact should be known that a contract of this 
kind had been given out and was going on % — A. I considered, sir, that 
Congress had no more right to interfere with us than they have to inter- 
fere with Spain ; that we had done for Congress just what weiiad agreed 
to do, and that they had no right to'touch us so long as we fulhlled our 
contract. 

Q. I did not propose to invoke, by my question, a discussion of the 
question of right. What I want to get at is the question of fact — 
whether any person connected with that work hurried the construction 
of the road in order that it might be completed before any interference 
could take place on the part of Congress ? — A. No such thought entered 
my mind. I thought we were doing justice to the Government, and 
that they had no right to complain. 

Q. Why did you build the road with this unusual and unprofitable 
haste % — A. Well, sir, I can only say that Mr. T.. C. Durant, our former 
vice-president, is a fast man. He started fast, and I tried to hold him 
back awhile ; but he got me to going pretty fast before we got through. 
We got the notion of putting the work through in about so many years, 
and we did it, and we did it at our cost. I have not looked at the books — 
I ain r t a book-man — but the representations here are that the contract- 
ors on that road made 18 or 19 per cent. ISTow, I say here that I would 
spurn the contract ; I would not take that contract to-day, nor any 
other contract, unless I could make that much on it. I have got a con- 
tract to-day on the Harlem Extension of $5,000,000; and if I did not 
think I could make my 15 or 18 per cent, on that I would not touch it ; 
and when they talk $16,000,000, or 19 per cent, profit on a contract like 
that, with the risk that they run — the risk of every one of us being 
bankrupt if we could not have sold our bonds or got through in the 
right shape — 1 say it is an outrage. 

Q. Have you any further answer to give to the question why the road 
was constructed with this unusual and unprofitable haste except that 
Mr. T. C. Durant is a fast man % — A. I can only say, sir, that we felt 
that the price which the Oakes Ames contract gave for it warranted us 
in doing it fast. 

Q. But I understand you to say that the profit anticipated on that 
coutract was not an unusual one? — A. It was not. 

Q. Then if you had a contract to build that road, and the anticipated 
profit and the profit actually realized were not unusual, why did you 
build it with this undue, unprofitable, and wasteful haste? — A. I don't 
consider it wasteful, sir. I consider that the road was not wastefully 
built, in one sense. Time was a very important element in the thing, 
on account of the interest accruing on the bonds as the road progressed. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 511 

Q. Bat that applies, in proportion, to all railroad-building ; there is 
a loss of interest after the expenditure is incurred and before the road 
begins to earn money? — A. Yes, sir; and I tell you this: that many 
roads that I have been on in the East have been delayed on account of 
a single cut or a single section, when all the capital invested was at 
stake, just for the reason that the directors didn't know what they were 
about ; that is to say instead of paying a man a dollar a yard for a stone 
or a hard-pan cut they would keep him down to 30 cents or 40 cents, 
and say to him that he must finish that according to the contract, when, 
by acting in that way, they would lose thousands and tens of thousands 
of dollars in interest by not getting their road done in time. 

Q. That we understand. Now, you allege as one cause of the great 
expenditure in constructing that road, the great haste with which it was 
completed. Was it not constructed with unusual haste ? — A. It was. 

Q. And did not that unusual haste increase the cost of the road to a 
very considerable extent? — A. It did, sir. 

Q. Was not that contrary to the ordinary and profitable methods of 
railroad-building? — A. Well, it was driven faster than they are usually 
driven. 

Q. Now, can you give any reason for that haste, other than the fact 
that Mr. Durant, the vice-president of the road, was a fast man and got 
you to being a fast man too before you got through? — A. What I meant 
by saying that he was a fast man was, that he was a man who when he 
undertook to help to build a railroad didn't stop at trifles in accomplish- 
ing his end, I say the road was built fast, and it was built at greater 
expense than if it had been two or three years longer in building. 

Q. Did the desire of getting as far west as possible before you should 
be met by the Central Pacific JSailroad enter as a motive into that hasty 
construction ? — A. It did in the last part, but not for a long time. 

Q. Did you hasten on that account ? — A. We wanted to get the Salt 
Lake business, for instance; still it was not so much the amount of 
profit that we would make out of the contract, or out of that business, 
as it was to get a governing point. 

Q. A governing point in reference to the control of business after the 
road was completed ?-— A. Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Several times during the course of this examination it has been 
said that 18 or 20 per cent, was not an unreasonable amount to make 
on a railroad contract; 20 per cent, on what? On the cost of the 
work ? — A. I mean 20 per cent, of the contract. 

Q. On what you receive from the contract? — A. Yes, sir; I would not 
take a contract unless I thought I could make 20 per cent, on it. 

Q. You do not mean, then, 20 percent, on the aggregate moneys that 
are paid from time to time ? — A. I do, sir ; I might miss it; contractors 
do miss it, but they never estimate for a piece of work unless they can 
estimate for a profit of 20 or 25 per cent. 

Q. Do you mean 20 per cent, on the contract ? — A. I mean 20 per 
cent, on every dollar that is in it. 

Q. You mean to say that if you had a contract for a piece of road of 
one hundred miles, at $50,000 a mile, you would not think it unreason- 
able if you were able to construct that road at 20 per cent, less than 
that amount ? — A. That is what I mean. 

Q. Do you know anything in regard to any money having been paid 
to Government commissioners in order to get them to report favorably 
on the acceptance of portions of that road ? — A. No,, sir, I do not. 



512 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILEOAD. 

Q. Do you know of Government commissioners making attempts of 
that sort ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Did you ever hear of anything of that kind having been done ? — 
A. Nothing but what was rumored. That rumor was afloat a long time 
ago, and the first I ever heard of it was from the bragging of a man 
who got it — a man here at Washington. 

Q. Was that a fact within your knowledge ? — A. No, sir. I would 
never give a cent to any man living to help the Union Pacific Kailroad 
Company, nor never will ; and I never came to Washington to get a bill 
fixed. I never was here but once in my life before, I believe, and I hope 
not to have to come again on account of the Credit Mobilier. 



Washington, D. C, February 1, 1873. 

Henry C. Crane recalled and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. State again, so that it may be conveniently known by the 
committee in this connection, what your relation was to those trustees. — 
Answer. I was their secretary and assistant treasurer up to the time 
that they moved their office to Boston. I was appointed permanent 
secretary of the trustees, and I consider myself their secretary yet, but 
since they took their matters to Boston I have had nothing to do with 
them there. 

Q. Was the principal part of their business done with before they 
went to Boston ? — A. It was. 

Q. The contracts that they were interested in had been substantially 
performed, and the moneys received from the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you looked through the books that have been brought here 
to see whether all the books of the trustees are here ?— A. I do not think 
the books are complete. 

Q. What seems to be wanting? — A. All the transactions that have 
taken place since the company have moved to Boston — the books that 
contain these transactions.. 

Q. Are you able to state now what this work in the Oakes Ames con- 
tract and the Davis contract had cost the trustees up to the time the 
books were taken away from New York % — A. No, sir. 

Q. Have you ever examined the books with the view of ascertaining 
what it cost? — A. The only examination I made was to see what the 
last engineer's estimate called for as due the contractors, but as to the 
cost of the construction of the road I should not be able to tell anything 
about it. 

Q. Should the books of the trustees show that?— A. Tbey should 
show it. 

Q. And if they are found they will show it? — A. They will, if they 
are made up correctly. 

Q. Are there any books here showing the cost of construction up to 
any particular date ? — A. Yes, sir ; I think I have the books up to the 
time of the removal to Boston. 

Q. Please look at those books and state what they show to have been 
the cost to the trustees of the construction of the road up to the time 
that the books left New York and went to Boston. — A. There is. no way 
to tell it from the books without first taking a balance from them. 

Q. How long would it take to make that out?— A. I do not know. 



CREDIT M0BIL1ER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 513" 

Q. Is that all in your writing?— A. There is none of it in my writing. 

Q. Who wrote it ? — A. A man named Lathrop. 

Q. Under your supervision ? — A. O, yes. 

^Q. Then you are familiar with it I — A. Yes, sir ; I had a balance- 
sheet made every month. 

Q. Bo you know where those balance-sheet are $ — A. Yes j I think 
they ought to be in Boston. I believe I returned all the papers of the 
contractors to Mr. Oliver Ames. 

Q. Can you tell from the books what that part of the road beyond 
the one hundredth meridian, which had been accepted at the time the 
Oakes Ames contract was made, had cost the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company ! — A. No, sir, I cannot tell you. • 

Q. Can that be told from the Union Pacific Eailroad Company's 
books ? — A. They can tell what they got the Government pay on, and 
that would tell how much road had been accepted. 

Q. That we have right here. — A. Well, it is not divided at all on the 
company's books. 

Q. Then there is no mode of telling what that part of the road had 
cost the company up to that time ? — A. No, sir ; there had been pay- 
ments made on account of the contract of Boomer, charged to Gesner, 
agent. 

* Q. That work had been done by Gesner, but as agent for Boomer 1 — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Let us see how much has been paid to him. — A. Up to March 22, 
1S67, there was $1,895,054.47. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. Are there no books that will show the cost of any certain division 
of the line? — A. No, sir ; I do not think there are. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. Gesner was agent under the Boomer contract, and the Boomer 
contract stipulated for $19,500 a mile for some parts, and $20,000 for 
others. Now, up to the 22d of March there had been constructed Under 
that contract exactly fifty-eight miles ; that is to say, there was that 
much accepted by the Government j now, at that time the company was 
doing the work itself, was it n«t % — A. The idea was, according to the 
resolution of the board of directors, that the work should go on in some 
way, and in order to carry it on as a contract this Boomer contract was 
made, and the general resolution of the board was that whenever there 
was a contract made they should assume, in their general contract, all 
the responsibilities, liabilities, and advantages of that contract, which 
they did. 



Washington, D. C, February 1, 1873. 
Thomas C Durant recalled and examined. 

By the Chairman : 
Question. It has been testified since you were on the stand last that 
at the time this " suspense account" was settled you brought in a lot of 
vouchers — the vouchers upon which it was settled — in a tin box ; and 
that those vouchers you took away with you again. — Answer. I may 
have them, but that account was settled a second time, and it is long 
ago, and I have since had no use for them. They may be among the 
papers of the Pacific Eailroad Company. They are simply foivthe 

33 cm 



514 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

most part memoranda. The way that sales of stock and sales of bonds, 
&c, are sent in is this : they do not make out a regular bill for one hun- 
dred shares or two hundred shares, but they just write on a little slip 
of paper the sum you are to pay, and you give a check. Then entries 
are made on the books, and there is no further use for the memoranda. 
Now, I think I can help this committee a good deal in getting at what 
they are after here. There was one witness I noticed here who testified 
that he got Union Pacific bonds, and I am satisfied that he thought he 
was telling the truth ; but he was mistaken. They were Union Pacific 
Eastern Division — bonds of the Union Pacific, Eastern Division — which 
was formerly the Leavenworth and Pawnee road. 

Q. Before you go to that we wish to see if you can tell us where 
those vouchers are. Mr. Alley understands that you carried those 
vouchers away with you. I am talking about the u suspense account 7 ' 
that was settled, and the vouchers on which it was settled. — A. I don't 
know that I understand just what you mean. O, those are regular 
vouchers, with the names of one or more of the* directors on them, and 
they belong to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. Those I can prob- 
ably find ; but they were made up from those certificates, whatever they 
were. 

Q. And you say the bonds that were used, and that have been talked 
about so much here, were not bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company at all, but were bonds of the Leavenworth and Pawnee road ? 
— A. The old Leavenworth and Pawnee road, or Union Pacific, Eastern 
Division. 

Q. What were those bonds used for? — A. I never knew anything of 
them after they went into Stewart's hands. 

Q. Do you know what Stewart did with them t — A. No ; I do not. I 
think he is in a lawsuit about 160 or 180 of them. I understand so. 

Q. Where?— A. I do not know; they were deposited in some bank, 
and somebody that was not entitled to them borrowed money on them, 
and I understand that he got into some trouble about them. 

Q. Was Stewart in your employ? — A. Yes, sir; he was in my em- 
ploy. 

Q. To do what? — A. To arrange and adjust a good many matters 
relative to getting that bill passed. 

Q. What were those matters ? — A. When you asked me the question 
the other evening, I commenced to explain, but you confined me to the 
question. In order to explain that, I will have to go back a little; but 
1 will only detain the committee a few minutes. The original bill was 
passed in 1862. It provided, by the appointment of commissioners, for 
the incorporation of a railroad company, to commence its road at the 
one hundredth meridian, and extend to the State line of California. 
The policy of Congress at that time was not to grant charters in the 
States, but only in the Territories. The company was compelled to build 
a branch road to some point in Iowa, to be designated by the President, 
and also another branch to Sioux City. The Central Pacific, or some 
other road there, was given the same subsidy with the right to build to 
the State line, and connect with the Union Pacific Eailroad. The Leav- 
enworth and Pawnee road, which had been organized for some time, 
and which had by some Indian treaty, I believe,a grant of lands, which was 
supposed to be valuable, was also given the same subsidy, with the right 
to connect with the Union Pacific Eailroad at the one hundredth me- 
ridian. There was a clause in the bill that enabled these railroads, in 
case the Union Pacific Eailroad failed to reach the one hundredth me- 
ridian at the time they did, to take up the road and go on without the 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 515 

intervention of any Government directors or anything else. That bill 
was passed under the auspices of the Leavenworth and Pawnee road. 
It was never supposed, I understand, by the parties who passed that 
bill, that the Union Pacific Company proper would ever be organized. 
The commissioners opened the books, and the time had nearly ex- 
pired 

By Mr. Shellab auger : 

Q. Was that Leavenworth and Pawnee a State charter ? — A. A State 
charter obtained in Kansas. 

Q. Had it at that time a land-grant % — A. I do not know whether it 
had a land-grant or not ; but it had something that they were making a 
great deal of noise about, some kind of a grant of land, which they got 
by some Indian treatfr. I don't know anything about it. 

Q. Did that authority to go on from the one hundredth meridian come 
from the State charter, or where did it come from I — A. From the Union 
Pacific charter. The act of 1862 contained a clause which allowed them 
to go on, in case the Union Pacific failed to reach the one hundredth 
meridian as soon as they did, without Government directors or any re- 
striction. The commissioners appointed to open the books for obtaining 
subscriptions to the Union Pacific Company, opened their books and 
held meetings. They opened books in Chicago and Saint Louis, and all 
the places designated by law ; but very few subscriptions were made, 
and the time had nearly expired wheh they were compelled, by law, 
to file an acceptance of the charter. Their subscriptions were not made 
up ; but the officers of the commission — not the directors — filed an ac- 
ceptance, and that acceptance was accepted by the Government. The 
company was afterward organized in October, 1863, by the election of a 
board of directors, having made up their subscriptions to the amount 
required. I never went into it until August. I then made up my mind 
that I would subscribe $50,000. It was very difficult to get the sub- 
scriptions made up. I tried to get capitalists all around to subscribe, 
and finally I procured a dozen or fifteen subscriptions by giving the 
parties the money to pay a 10 per cent, installment, and agreeing to 
guarantee them against any loss 1 — agreeing to take the stock off their 
hands. Then the books were sent, and parties sent to Boston and 
Philadelphia, but they did not succeed very well ; and I finally got my 
friends to make up subscriptions to the amount of $2,180,000, by fur- 
nishing three-fourths of the money to make the subscriptions myself. 
When we came on to Washington it was known that the road could 
not be built under the bill as it then stood, but it was thought it would 
be amended, as there was a great feeling in favor of the road at that 
time. California was making considerable noise just then, and the 
Government was very anxious to get the road through to California ; 
and we were therefore satisfied that we could get an amendment which 
would enable us to build the road. I was here two or three months, 
and I saw that while everybody was disposed, so far as we could see, to 
go for the bill, yet, whenever it came up, there was some clause 
introduced that gave these other roads all the privileges — some 
clause that, in fact, prevented the road from going on. Among 
others there was a clause (now changed to section 11) which 
I understood Mr. Thaddeus Stevens insisted upon very strong- 
ly. I went up to see Mr. Stevens, with this Mr. Hay that was 
here, and referred immediately to this Leavenworth and Pawnee 
Company, on which it appeared that Mr. Stevens was utterly 
opposed to them ; he said that their obligations were such that the Gov- 



516 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

eminent would not be protected by allowing any lien prior to the Gov- 
ernment lien. Already, he said, there were heavy judgments against 
them, and their franchise had been sold once or twice. I asked who it 
was that had claims against them, and he said John C. Fremont and 
his friends had claims for $1,200,000, and that he should not consent to 
any bill being passed through his committee, if he could prevent it, 
unless he was satisfied that the Government was protected, so that the 
Government lien would be what it was meant to be. He said the best 
way for the parties would be to see if they could not arrange their mat- 
ters among themselves. Mr. Hallett was here at that time, and Mr. 
Perry, and, I think, some of Fremont's friends, and two or three par- 
ties belonging to the Leavenworth and Pawnee road, and I don't know 
who else. At all events we could not get along unless we headed them 
off at their quarters. Then, thinking there might be some money to be 
made in the Leavenworth and Pawnee road, I took a third interest in a 
contract, that was already let, to build a portion of the road, and ad- 
vanced between three hundred thousand and four hundred thousand 
dollars. I gave it up afterwards. 1 then found that the object still was 
to control the Union Pacific road under that charter, and I was strongly 
urged to abandon the Union Pacific organization, and let the Leaven- 
worth and Pawnee go on without any Government directors or any 
other restrictions. I found, also, that they had large obligations out. 
There were three or four millions of their stock floating about Wash- 
ington. Some of it was full-paid stock, and some of it was stock sub- 
ject to assessment ; but the parties who held the stock subject to assess- 
ment seemed to think it was quite as valuable as the stock that was 
full paid. They had the most extraordinary ideas of its value on ac- 
count of this Indian treaty. It was to arrange all these ^matters, and 
get the opposition withdrawn, that I employed Mr. Stewart. There 
was no use in talking to Congress itself, for Congress had its masters in 
the constituents of the members — in public opinion; and where their 
constituents were interested in an enterprise they would come on here 
and keep the city full ; and they did come on here, and we met these 
parties at every point. I found that Mr. Stewart had been in the em- 
ploy of the company before ; I think Mr. Huntington introduced me to 
him. 

Q. Which company? — A. The Leavenworth and Pawnee Company. 
Mr. Latham was in the employ of Mr. Hallett, of the Leavenworth and 
Pawnee Company ; and I think Hallett himself was here, and three or 
four others. I gave authority to make the best arrangements that 
could be made, instructing him distinctly that, as to buying any of 
that stock subject to assessment, I did not want to hold it; that I 
would not have it on my mind ; but if there was any way to arrange 
matters, by making compromises or payments, it might be done, on 
condition that they withdraw their opposition to the amendments, and 
that a bill should be passed which would give the Union Pacific an 
equal chance with the rest of them. How they made all those arrange- 
ments I do not know. Probably I should have known a good deal more 
about it than I did, but I was taken sick, and for eight weeks I did not 
go out of the hotel, and for six weeks I did not leave my bed; the phy- 
sicians did not allow me. I left the matter with Hallett and Stewart : 
and, whatever demands they made upon me, I met them. A portion of 
the arrangement was for our company, the Union Pacific Eailroad, 
to give some sort of obligation that we would pay these matters, as the 
road progressed, in the bonds of the company; but I afterwards made 
up my mind that we did not want any obligations out against the com- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 517 

pany when we came on the market to borrow money, and I authorized 
these parties to make a trade, and bought the other bonds and turned them 
over instead ; and when they came in with either one thousand, or two 
or three thousand, or whatever they had of those bonds, I gave them 
the money for them. I recollect one draft of $60,000, because I kept 
that along and made a ten-thousand dollar payment on it at one time, 
and a twenty-thousand dollar payment at another time, and I think 
it was two years before I paid it in full. That was a draft of J. B. 
Stewart ; that Mr. Hay presented himself. What that original stock 
was spent for I do not know. The certificates were all made out in the 
name of J. B. Stewart. It might have been employed in Congress ; and 
it might be that, if Congress undertook to expel every man that owned 
stock, there might be a difficulty in finding some one to expel the, last 
man. I saw that the witness here meant to tell the truth, and thought 
he had got Union Pacific bonds ; and he was right; but they were 
Union Pacific, Eastern Division. . They were construction-bonds, hav- 
ing only five or ten years to run, when they were obliged to take them 
up. There was another thing that complicated the matter a good deal. 
I mean the rivalry between cities. The Saint Louis interest fought 
hard and strong to make the terminus of the road so as to benefit 
Saint Louis, which it would do if it was at Leavenworth, in Kansas, 
and they carried Kentucky, and I think Ohio. The Iowa and other 
northern legislatures were in favor of the other route, and so was the 
Chicago interest ; and it was with a good deal of difficulty (I think I 
got Mr. Wilson to draw up the resolution for it) that we got the clause 
put in prohibiting the Government from delivering any bonds on the 
main line from the one hundredth meridian. The object of that was, in 
case they succeeded in gettiug the control of the road to Saint Louis, 
that they should be still compelled to. build the Iowa branch. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. I have not yet gathered from your statement what it was that 
those parties were to settle. — A. They were to arrange* for the with- 
drawal of the opposition of those parties, who supposed they controlled 
the road, by arranging, if they withdrew their opposition, to take part 
of their stock and settle claims that they had, so that they would all 
agree to some kind of a bill. 

Q. Do you mean to say that the arrangement, of which you speak, 
simply amounted to buying off their opposition to the legislation of 
1864 f— A. In what way * 

Q. By this arrangement that you speak of. — A. Well, I think in some 
instances they made arrangements to take an interest in their roads, 
and give them an interest in the other road, so that they would all act 
in concert. In that manner they arranged between them in some way ; 
I don't know how it was done ; but they arranged between those parties, 
and agreed to take up their bonds, which brought their outstanding- 
liens down to a point less than the Government subsidy, or equal to the 
Government subsidy. That arrangement was made ; but how it was 
made, I do not pretend to say. I know that all of that Leavenworth and 
Pawnee stock that was returned to me I got rid of as soon as possible, 
for most of it was subject to assessment, and I let anybody take it that 
would. 

Q. What do you say was your object in taking an interest in that 
road? — A. They had beaten us right out ; we did not stand anywhere, 
until I found out what we had to fight. We found that Congress was 
all right ; but there was some outside pressure, and we did not know 
what it was. 



518 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. And you wanted to get rid of that ontside pressure ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Now, how was that done ? — A. By getting the constituents of the 
members in different States, that were interested, to come on here and 
reason with them ; and, where it was necessary, asking them to get the 
legislatures to pass resolutions of instruction as to what they wanted 
their representatives to do. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. Who delivered the assets to Stewart which he received, and which 
he says amounted to $250,000, or about that ? — A. The drafts were paid 
at my office, and the bonds were either delivered by myself, or by my 
order. 

Q. Delivered how long before the act passed ? — A. O, nothing at all 
was delivered until after the act passed. 

Q. When did you first make your engagement with Stewart, by which 
he became entitled to those assets ?— A. In the winter of 1863-'64. 

Q. Was that in writing ? — A. No, sir ; they frequently came to me 
when some claim would come up 

Q. A few questions answered categorically will be more satisfactory 
to me than these volunteer statements. Was the arrangement you made 
with Stewart made with him in person ? — A. Yes, sir $ in person. Well, 
I carried out the obligations of Samuel Hallett. 

Q. Please state as concisely as you can what that agreement with 
Stewart was, whereby he became entitled to receive those assets 
amounting to $250,000? — A. Most of it was in this way : here was an 
enormous amount of claims, and it would take an- enormous amount of 
money to arrange them, and I said, "I won't pay the money; if you 
can arrange it for so much among yourselves, do so f and they arranged 
it just as they chose. 

Q. For how much ? — A. Different sums ; it may have been $60,000 
in one case, an£ $100,000 in another ; but I do not recollect. 

Q. Then, at various times prior to the legislation of 1864, you had 
further agreements with this Mr. Stewart, by which you stipulated with, 
him to arrange certain conflicting interests for such an amount? — A. I 
said I would not exceed so much, and sometimes I said I would give so 
much. 

Q. The amount in each case was limited at least in its maximum ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And all those amounts, added together, come to about the sum that 
Stewart mentioned ? — A. O, my, I think they would come nearer to six 
or seven hundred thousand — the amounts all around. 

Q. Give us now only what was used for the jrarpose of securing the 
legislation of 1864? — A. Arranging those difficulties? 

Q. Yes ; what was the aggregate amount that passed through Stew- 
art's hands on that occasion in connection-with that matter? — A. lam 
not positive, because, I was West ; and afterward it changed hands and 
Stewart made some proposition to the parties in Philadelphia, which I 
acceded to, and whether he took $100,000 or more, or not, I do not rec- 
ollect, but I should judge it was somewhere between $300,000 and 
$350,000. 

Q. There was no actual delivery of assets to Stewart until 1865, or 
until after the legislation of 1864 ? — A. Not until after the legislation 
of 1864. 

Q. When you came to settle with Stewart, of course he, or somebody, 
presented a memorandum, or something, to show how much was coming. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD 519 

to hiui ? — A. I think they only sent ine memoranda — Stewart, Hallett, 
and Latham — they notified me how mrich they wanted 

Q. Who notified yon 1 — A. Latham or Stewart. I had these taken 
i.i p and bought other bonds 

Q. Had what taken up ! — A. My obligations. I told them to bring 
them back and I would exchange them for other bonds. 

Q. I understand you that up to the legislation of 1864 — until that 
legislation was passed — there were no bonds of any kind, and no obliga- 
tions; delivered to Stewart I — A. I don't know but he might have 
handled the Leavenworth and Pawnee, but I did not give them to him ; 
'I don't know anything about that. 

Q. If he had that, it was not contributed by the Union Pacific Bail- 
road Company I — A. No ; there was none by the Union Pacific Railro ad. 

Q. I am trying to confine the inquiry to that at present. Prior to the 
legislation of 1864 no assets of any sort were delivered to Stewart by 
you to aid in securing that legislation ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. But after that legislation you did have, I suppose, some settlem ent 
with Stewart, and some method of ascertaining what was coming to 
him? — A. He sent memorandums of what he wanted, and so long as 
they were within the gross sum that we had agreed upon, I paid no 
attention to the details, but let him have what he wanted. 

Q. And he would send you a memorandum when he wanted any- 
thing? — A. Yes, sir; sometimes on a small piece of paper. 

Q. How did he send you those memoranda ? — A. He would send them 
to me at the hotel. 

Q. Where were you at those times 1 — A. I was in New York, and out 
West, and all about ; I was not here. 

Q. What I want to get at is, what evidence he presented to you, after 
the legislation of 1864, showing what he was entitled to be paid upon 
former engagements with you. — A. I don't recollect. He showed me 
nothing that I could tell anything by. He might have kept three-quar- 
ters of it himself for aught I know. 

Q. You took his word for it? — A. Yes, sir; I took his word for it. 

Q. Where were you when he first began to make those demands for 
payment after the law was passed ? — A. I cannot recollect ; I have not 
the least idea. O, yes; he called for some money while I was in Wash- 
ington, and I did advance some here in Washington. 

Q. Before the law was passed? — A. Yes, sir; before the law was 
passed. 

Q. How much money did you advance before the law was passed? — 
A. Maybe eight or ten thousand dollars; I can't recollect exactly. 
That was for people from Saint Louis. 

Q. And nothing more was advanced before the law was passed? — A. 
I don't think there was anything more. 

Q. And after it was passed you took Stewart's statement of what was 
due, and forwarded the amounts to him without questioning them? — A. 
Yes, sir. As I said before, I was sick, and he and Hallett arranged it 
between themselves, and whatever Hallett said, I took as right. 

Q. Who was Hallett? — A. He had the contract to build the Leaven- 
worth and Pawnee road. 

Q. Had the company then been organized, and had it chosen its offi- 
cers ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were you an officer of the road at that time ? — A. Yes, sir; I was 

vice-president, and owner of three-quarters of the stock — virtual owner. 

Q. Give briefly the reason why those large amounts were paid over 

by the Union Pacific Railroad Company, without any vouchers to show 



520 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

what was done with them. — A. I had agreed that they could use so 
much money iu making those arrangements, and as long as they kept 
within that, that was all I had to do with the matter. 

Q. Please tell what memoranda you preserved to enable you to re- 
member so many transactions, and to enable you to know that Stewart 
was keeping within your prescribed limits. — A. They gave me a list. 

Q. Who gave you a list ? — A. They gave me a list that there were so 
many bonds required, or told me there were so many bonds required .to 
meet the engagements. 

Q. When did they give you that list — after the law was passed ? — A. 
After the law was passed. 

Q. As I understand you, when the arrangement was made by you 
with Stewart, before the law was passed, you gave him the maximum 
amount ? — A. I did, in some cases. 

Q. And in other cases you agreed upon amounts for particular pur- 
poses ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That occurred before the law was passed, and he acted under those 
arrangements with you until after the law was passed. What I want 
to get at now is, how you retained in your mind the amount or amounts 
that you had limited him to, or that you had agreed to, in each particu- 
lar case, and whether there is any paper or book that will show those 
amounts, or how you limited him 1 — A. He would tell me that there was 
an amount — three or four hundred thousand dollars, or whatever the 
amount might be — wanted, and it made no difference to me what he did 
with it 

Q. That is not an answer to my question. I want to know whether 
you preserved any papers or books to show you, when he called upon 
you for payment after the law was passed, what your prior arrangements 
with him were, and if you did, what were those papers or books, and 
where are they ? — A. The papers were showing that so much had been 
used, and that my proportion was so much ; the statement was made, 
the paper was certified to by one or two of the directors in the company, 
and that was the last I ever thought of it. 

Q. Then there was nothing kept by you by which you retained in your 
mind the amounts that you had authorized to be used in each given 
case, but when you came to make those settlements with Stewart, after 
the law was passed, you simply took whatever was certified to you % — A. 
Yes, sir ; if it was within those amounts. 

Q. But how did you retain the amounts of so many complicated 
transactions % — A. O, I didn't try to retain the particular amounts, so 
long as he kept within the aggregate. I looked if the amounts were 
within the aggregate. 

Q. What was that aggregate that you gave him, and required that he 
should not exceed % — A. I think it was $500,000, as I recollect now. 

Q. Did he, in his demands, exceed the aggregate 1 — A. No, the de- 
mands did not come up to the full amount. 

Q. You have told us various items in that aggregate, that you had to 
reconcile and get clear of these conflicting claims, &c. Now I will ask 
you this question,. and you will please answer it carefully ; whether in 
that aggregate there was embraced anything as having been paid to any 
member of either House of Congress, or to any officer connected with 
the Government of the United States? — A. There was not. 

Q. In your arrangement with Stewart did you forbid the including 
in his drafts upon you anything of that kind on account of payments 
made to members of either House of Congress, or to any officer of the 
Government 1 — A. 1 told Stewart when he first took the matter in charge, 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 521 

and it was understood all along, that Congress was all right, if we could 
only get the outsiders all right. There was no necessity of using a dol- 
lar in Congress. I had had bills here before, and I had refused to buy 
a member of Congress. My memory is bad as to the name. Twenty 
years since I had a committee of four wait upon me, representing forty 
members of Congress, and I refused to have anything to do with them. 
I never bought a member of Congress, and I never would have anything 
to do with such a thing. 

Q. Did you prohibit Stewart from using any part of that $500,000 or 
less in influencing members of Congress by paying it to them, either 
directly or indirectly ? — A. It was so understood ; that nothing should 
be done with members of Congress. 

Q. Have you, from any information that you can now give to the 
committee, any reason to believe that Stewart did include in the claim 
that he made upon you anything that he had used in corrupting or in- 
fluencing members of Congress ? — A. I don't believe he did; I have no 
idea that he did so ; he informed me of nothiug of the kind, and I have 
no idea that he did it. Whether any of them were stockholders in that 
company I can't say. 

Q. Did he ever give you an account that satisfies you now, as you 
testified here to-day. that it was a just account of what he did with your 
funds ? — A. I found Mr. Stewart very fair. 

Q. Answer my question. — A. I did not criticise his account. 

Q. Did he ever render you an account? — A. In detail, no: nothing 
more than a memorandum that there was so much due, and that he 
wanted it at such a time. 

Q. Did he ever render you an account which showed the aggregate 
amount for which he made demands upon you, and which you paid! — 
A. No, except in the way I have stated. He wrote me a letter once 
giving a general account, and I think I left it on my desk ; that was 
simply a general thing. 

Q. There is no memorandum or book or paper that you can now fur- 
nish to the committee, that will show what was done with those funds 
of your road f — A. No, sir. 

Q. There is nothing anywhere in the world, that you know of, which, 
if brought to the committee, would show that ? — A. Mr. Stewart or Mr. 
Hallett may have it ; I don't know. 

Q. But you cannot furnish the committee with any means of getting 
at it? — A. No, sir; and if I thought there had been anything done in 
the way you speak of, I would not have been in Washington ; I had no 
idea of anything of that kind ; there was no necessity for it at that time ; 
it was not a measure that there was any opposition to in Congress. It 
was the local interests that made the fight. Saint Louis wanted the 
terminus, and Chicago wanted it, and the railroad interests of the coun- 
try wanted to control the road as a feeder for themselves, and that was 
what made all the trouble. 

Q. Then you have no reason to believe to-day that any of that money 
was used for the purpose of corrupting or influencing legislators or 
Government officers ; I mean in 1864 ?— A. No, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. How was it in 1802 "I — A. I don't know of any. There was two or 
three millions of stock floating around here, and you could not tell who 
it belonged to or anything about it ; I know that a great many brokers 
in different sections of the country had it to sell. 

Q. Do you know of Thaddens Stevens having received any bonds or 
stocks of the Union Pacific Railroad ? — A. I do not. 



522 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Did you purchase any property from Thacldeus Stevens'? — A. 
Never. 

Q. Did you so report to the board of directors' at any time ? — A. Never. 
I said that I was offered by a broker some land property up in Penn- 
sylvania, but that I would not go into the iron trade. 

Q, Did you have any transaction of any kind with Thaddeus Ste- 
vens ? — A. Nothing whatever. 

Q. Did you authorize anybody to make any negotiations with him % — 
A. I did not. * 

Q. Do you know whether any were made % — A. I do not. 

Q. And you have no knowledge of Mr. Stevens having received either 
stock or bonds of this company % — A. I have not any such knowledge. 

Q. Do you know how the provision happened to get into the act of 
1864, under which the Sioux City branch was made % — A. The Sioux City 
branch was in the act of 1862. The Pacific Railroad' Company was com- 
pelled to build it. At the time our bill was before the House, I think 
Mr. Ames suggested to me — and I think that was the first time I ever 
saw him, though I may have seen him once before — he suggested to me 
that we could not carry Iowa unless we gave up that clause and gave it 
to an individual or a private corporation, and that he did not think we 
could carry Massachusetts. 

Q. Had it been arranged at that time who should have the benefit of 
the change that had been made in the law % — A. I don't know ; I asked 
no questions about it ; I was rather annoyed that we should be com- 
pelled to give it up, as I thought, to the State of Iowa, when, as we were 
trying to get a terminus at their State line, they ought to be satisfied. 
I supposed it was some local road interest or something of that sort ; I 
didn't know anything about it. 

Q. Do you know when that provision got into the act of 1864 J — A. I 
think it was put first in the House bill. There were five or six bills, and 
they were changed five or six times. 1 cannot tell, but I think it was 
put first in the House bill. 

Q. Did it not first find its way into the bill in the conference commit- 
tee % — A. O, no, sir. 

Q. Are you quite sure of that ? — A. Quite sure. If you look at the 
record you will find it so, I think. The conference committee put noth- 
ing in the bill that was not in one of the other bills. 

Q. The bill had passed one branch of Congress, and had been changed 
in the other branch, and then it went to a conference committee ? — A. 
Yes, it went to a conference for the last few days. 

Q. Have you ever examined to see whether this provision relative to 
the construction of this Sioux City branch in the form in which it is now, 
ever was in that bill before it got into that conference committee 1 — A. I 
am sure it was. I think I recollect the bills pretty thoroughly. 

Q. You have observed, I suppose, that the act of 1864 provides that 
the point at which the Sioux City branch shall connect with the Union 
Pacific road shall be determined by the company building it ? — A. Ap- 
proved by the President, I think. 

Q. No; determined by the company building it? — A. That the point 
at which it shall connect shall be so determined, subject to the approval 
of the President ; that was the first bill. 

Q. Yes, the first bill contained that provision, but. that is not the way 
with this. — A. I thought that clause was in. , 

Q. The point at which this Sioux City branch connects with the Union 
Pacific Railroad, is that east or west of Sioux City ! — A. I do not recol- 
lect. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 523 

Q. State what, if anything, you know in relation to the payment of 
any sum of money to any Government commissioner. — A. I only know 
what I heard from the superintendent of the road. It was rumored at 
one time that they had paid a Government commissioner $25,000. I 
was coming down the road, passing through Omaha about that time, 
and I went into the cashier's office, and asked to look at his books, and 
•I found a memorandum there which I took off, and on my return home 
I addressed this letter to the president and treasurer of the company : 

• 
" New York, December 12, 1868. 

" Gentlemen : I saw by the cashier's books at Omaha that a check 
for $25,000 was given Webster Snyder, superintendent, for which the 
cashier held no voucher. In answer to my question he stated that Mr. 
Snyder promised to furnish a voucher next day. 

"I am led to believe that this money has been used for improper pur- 
poses, and propose to hold the superintendent to strict accountability 
for using the funds of the company, or making promises on behalf of 
the company without authority, but first desire to know if either of you 
have directly or indirectly given him any authority to make a bargain 
for the payment of money to any of the Government commissioners, or 
said anything to him that can be construed into a consent, on your 
part, that such thing might be done. I believe it to be bad policy on 
the part of this company to pay black-mail to any commissioner that 
may be appointed, no matter how much we may suffer by the delay, and 
earnestly protest against its being done. 

" Our road will stand on its merits when it comes fairly before the 
public or the Government, and we need have no fear as to the final de- 
cisions of any practical commissioner on the character of the work. 
" Yours, respectfully, 

"THOS. O. DUBANT, 

" Vice-President. 

u Messrs. Oliver Ames, President, 
" John J. Cisco, Treasurer." 

I find a memorandum that I made, taking it off the cashier's book : 
F. P. Blair, $3,500. That was simply his fees and mileage ; he had not 
drawn his pay for several examinations. Snyder, $25,000. N. B. Bu- 
ford, $1,500. 

Q. Did you authorize Mr. Snyder to make that payment of $25,000 to 
Wendell?— A. I did not. 

Q. Did he consult with you about it 1 — A. He did not. I never knew 
of it until after it was done. I had authorized Mr. Snyder sometimes, 
when the commissioners came down the road, and did not come this 
way, to pay their bills and draw on New York for it. We were a good 
deal troubled at that time with the commissioners. They were changing 
the commissioners, for politics or something else, every little while, and 
we had several of them out on the road. A gent from the " Intelligen- 
cer," or some paper here, named Snow, went out there as commissioner 
to examine the road, and we had considerable trouble with him. I be- 
lieve he did demand an interest in the coal company, and I immediately 
sent on the telegrams to Washington, and they were taken to the Presi- 
dent and the Cabinet, I believe. 

Q. Who was the President at that time ? — A. Andrew Johnson. I 
learned that Mr. - — had been appointed one of the commis- 
sioners, and I at once addressed the following telegram to the President: 



524 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

" Union Pacific Railrod Company, 

"End of Trade, October 29, 1868. 
"To the President of the United States, Washington, D. C. : 

"One of the commissioners appointed to re-examine the Union Pacific 
Railroad, now completed, and also to examine the location of the line 
west thereof, has been for some time in the employ of this company as 
civil-engineer, and located that portion of the line above referred to ; I 
would, therefore, most respectfully suggest that the commission be com- 
posed of entirely disinterested persons, believing their decision will be 
more satisfactory to the Government, to the stockholders, and to the 
public, and relieve all parties from unfriendly criticism. 
" Respectfully, yours, 

"T. C. DURAOT, 

" Vice-President. r 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Mr. Snyder testified, in substance, if I correctly recollect what lie 
said this forenoon, that Mr. Wendell made this demand on him for 
$25,000 as a condition of his making a favorable report, or as a condition 
of proceeding to report at all $ that he informed you of the fact ; and 
that your reply was, " I shall not authorize any such payment." He 
said, also, that you were there with him, and that the purpose which 
Wendell went there for was notorious. On being asked whether he 
should have made the payment if you peremptorily objected, he replied, 
" Hardly." He also made some other answers which indicated a belief 
on his part that you did object ; but, if I have correctly recalled what 
he said, I have now stated the substance of it. What have you to say 
as to that ? — A. I may have come down on the train with the commis- 
sioners, but I think I came down on the train after them. I heard 
something of this sort ; it was mentioned as soon as I got to Omaha, 
and I went to the office. Mr. Snyder was not there, and I went to the 
cashier's book and took off this memorandum. I have a letter from 
Snyder on the subject, in reply to one that I wrote him about it. 

Q. Did you state to Snyder that you would object to that payment 
before it was made ! — A. I never heard of it until after it was made. 
So I never did. 

Q. Did you ever have any conversation with him about it, or ever 
hear of it from him or any other person that there was any purpose on 
Mr. Wendell's part to receive, or on Mr. Snyder's part to pay to Wen- 
dell, any money other than as ordinary compensation as a commissioner 1 
— A. I never intended he should receive any. 

Q. The question is, whether you ever heard of any such purpose on 
either side ? — A. I think Mr. Snyder or somebody on the line of the 
road said " Don't this mean black-mail ?" And I said " I think not ; if 
it does we won't stand it." 

Q. Didn't what mean black-mail? — A. Their changing commissioners 
and sending out men who were not railroad men. 

Q. Was that remark made in relation to Wendell's refusal to report 
unless he received compensation? — A. No; I didn't know that he had 
refused. It was made in regard to changing commissioners and putting 
in politicians. 

Q. Did you take any steps to have Snyder turned out of office for 
that payment ! — A. This letter that I wrote notifies the president and the 
treasurer ; there was a good deal of complaint about that time of my 
assuming duties that belonged to the president any way. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 525 

Q. Did you take any other step to have him removed, except this 
letter? — A. No, sir ; nothing except that letter. 

Q. Have you a letter from Mr. Snyder in relation to this matter? — A. 
I have. 

Q. Please read it. — A. 

u Union Pacific Bailroad Company, 

Echo City, Nebraska, January 23, 1869. 

"Dear Sir : In reply to your letter of January 23, 1868, making in- 
quiries as to voucher issued November 21, 1868, in favor of W. 0. Lind- 
say, cashier, for $25,000 account cash paid for acceptance for road from 
eight hundredth to nine hundred and twentieth mile-post, I would re- 
spectfully state that draft on New York City for the amount was given 
C. Wendell, esq., United States commissioner, in consideration of his 
signing officially the report accepting as first class the Union Pacific 
Bailroad, the points above mentioned. Having been cognizant of the 
transaction, I approved the voucher for the payment of the amount. I 
approved the voucher as herein specified without authority or direction 
from any person, but as superintendent of the road, and acting in my 
official capacity, in a manner as I deemed, under the state of financial 
affairs at that time, for the best interest of the company which 1 repre- 
sent. 

" Very respectfullv, 

" W. SNYDEE, 
"General Superintendent. 

" T. C. DURANT, Esq." 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. How long did Snvder remain in the service of the road after that ? 
—A. He gave up on the 21th of July, 1869. 

Q. When was this money paid? — A. In November, 1868. 

Q. In the final settlement with Mr. Snyder, was he charged in any 
way with that $25,000? — A. I do not know. That was not in my de- 
partment. It was settled in Boston, after I was out of the road. I went 
out in May, 1869. 

Q. And you don't know whether moneys were paid over to him after 
this transaction or not % — A. I do not know. 

Adjourned. 



Washington, D. C, February 3, 1873. 

Benjamin W. Spence recalled. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Have you now the original memorandum to which you 
referred in your testimony on your former examination ?— Answer. Yes, 
sir. (Handing it to the chairman.) 

Q. Is this paper which you have now produced the paper that was 
handed to you on which you made the checks and drafts of which you 
spoke in your former testimony ? — A. Yes, sir, it is. 

Q. Who made the figuring on the back of it? — A. Those are my 
figures. 

Q. When did you make those figures? — A. They were made at the 
time. 

Q. Have you made any alterations of any kind on this paper since it 
originally came into your possession? — A. Yes, sir; I think that I put 



526 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

on it the item u $10 to Gorhain." He was one of the clerks, and he 
came to me for $10 ; I was busy at the time, and could not enter the 
item on my book, so I put it on that memorandum. 

Q. You made no change other than that you have spoken of ? — A. 
No, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. You say that these figures on the back were made by you at the 
time ? — A. Yes ; it may have been that very day, but certainly within 
two or three days of the time, and most likely the same day. 

Q. What is your recollection about it— that the figures were made on 
the same day or within two or three days afterward? Have you any 
memory on the subject or are you merely inferring? — A. My memory is, 
that the figures were made the same day. 

Q. For what jmrpose did you make these figures on the back of the 
memorandum ? — A. That I might be able to explain in case any of the 
directors asked questions in relation to it. 

Q. Where did you keep this memorandum J — A. I kept it in my cash- 
drawer. 

Q. Open to the inspection of everybody who went to the drawer? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did the treasurer have access to the drawer generally ? A. No, 
sir. , 

Q. How long did the memorandum remain in your cash-drawer ? — A. 
I cannot say, Certainly ; but I should say not longer than till the end of 
the month until I charged up that $10. 

Q. What did you do with it then ? — A. I kept it on a file of papers 
that I had in my drawer. 

Q. How long did it remain there ? — A. It has been on that file ever 
since ; it was a file of private papers — papers relating to other matters 
than the Pacific Railroad business. I closed that memorandum in* a 
wrapper and put it in that file. 

Q. Did it remain there ever since ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You did not leave it there when you left the employment of the 
company ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You mean to say that it was there down to the time when you left 
the employment of the company ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. When was this copy made that you presented when you were last 
examined? — A. It was made just before I left Boston to come on here. 

Q. What does that red letter "N" mean? — A. I had a number of pri- 
vate papers on file, and in order to designate them I had them all let- 
tered. That letter is a mere matter of reference. 

Q. Why did you not copy the writing that was on the back of the 
original memorandum when you copied the writing on its face? — A. I 
had the figures on another piece of paper which I produced here. 

Q. What figures ? — A. The figures that went to make up the amount 
of the $126,000. 

Q. This memorandum you say was brought you by the person who 
gave you directions in regard to the checks and drafts ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Was that word " Dodge," and the letters " &. M. D.,» and "C. S. 
B." on the original paper ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Do you know in whose handwriting that word " Dodge" and the 
letters are ? — A. No, sir, I do not. 

Q. You do not think they are in Mr. Williams's handwriting ? — A. 
No, sir ; I think not. 

Q. When you brought on the copy of these figures the other day, why 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 527 

did you not also copy what was on the back of the same paper "I It 
seenis to be very important. — A. I bad the figures so well fixed in my 
mind that I did not think it necessary. I left in a hurry, and I produced 
another piece of paper here with a copy of the figures. 

Q. When was that other copy made 1 — A. That was made the day I 
was here giving my testimony. 

Q. When were those figures made ? — A. They were made at the time, 
all within a week or so. 

Q. How soon did the check go back from Mr. Wilson ? — A. It came 
back at the end of the month when the bank-accounts came. 

Q. W r hat day was this transaction ? — A. Ninth March. 

Q. And you made what is on this paper within a week of that time % — 
A. Yes. 

Q. If you made within a week of the 9th of March the writing on 
this paper, how comes it that you have put upon it " $19,000, James F. 
Wilson, collected by the Girard National Bank of Philadelphia," if the 
check did not come back till the end of the month ? — A. That may have 
been afterward. 

Q. Is not that evidently written at the same time # with the other 
items preceding and following it % — A. Then I will explain by saying 
that I may have made that memorandum at the end of a month instead 
of confining it to a week. 

Q. You would not have got your check-book until the end of the month 
or beginning of the next month ?-^A. The last day of the month the 
books are left to be balanced. 

Q. You are now satisfied that you did not make this memorandum 
within a week, as you formerly testified, or, perhaps, on the same day $ — 
A. Yes, sir ; I should say within the nionth. 

Q. Then your memory is at fault, so far as the time of making this 
memorandum is concerned % — A. Perhaps I spoke too quickly in saying 
a week, but I know that it was while the transaction was fresh in my 
mind. 

Q. For what purpose did you make notes on this memorandum, addi- 
tional to the figures that were on it when it was first brought to you ? — 
A. For the purpose of being able to answer any question that might be 
asked me by any of the directors. 

Q. And you say that these figures on the back of this original docu- 
ment were made at the same time that you made the memorandum on 
the other paper ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you made this copy when you started to come on here % — A. 
Yes. 

Q. And did not copy that ? — A. No, sir, I did not ; but I had the 
figures on another slip of paper which I handed in here. 

By Mr. SLOCUM : 

Q. Mr. Bushnell was there at the time, and you gave part of those 
drafts to him ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Are you positive that you did not give the check for $19,000 to 
Mr. Bushnell !— A. I did not give it to him. The $19,000 check went 
out of my hands to Mr. Wilson. 

Q. Suppose Mr. Bushnell should appear here and swear that he took 
that check from you, would you not think that you were mistaken % — A. 
No, sir ; although it may not have remained in Mr. Wilson's hands more 
than a minute, or half a minute. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. Do you know what Mr. Wilson did with it? — A. No, sir; I took 



528 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

no notice. Mr. Bushnell, Mr. Dodge, and Mr. Wilson were all standing 
at the left of my desk. 

Q. How came you to give that $19,000 check to Mr. Wilson and not 
to Mr. Bushnell? — A. I am sure I do not know. He may have been 
standing ready at my desk, seeming to want it, and I may have handed 
it to him for that reason. He may have taken it to look at it. 

Q. Are you able to state whether Mr. Wilson put that draft in his 
pocket-book, or moved away from you, carrying it with him ; or whether 
he passed it along to the same person to whom you had given the other 
checks, both being standing near you ? — A. I have no knowledge as to 
that at all, because I gave my attention right away to the figurings on 
my check-book, and I took no notice of what was done with the check. 

Q. But you do know that tins check came back from a different bank 
from that which the check that you gave to Mr. Rollins came back from, 
or that Mr. Dodge's check came back from ? — A. Mr. Bollins's check 
came back from a bank in Concord, New Hampshire. 

Q. Where Mr. Bollins resides % — A. Tes, sir. 

Q. And the $19,000 check came through the Girard National Bank 
of Philadelphia 1 ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the $24,000 check that you say was given to Mr. Dodge came 
back through the National Bank of the State of New York f — A. Yes, 
sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. When did I understand you to say that your connection with the 
board of trustees terminated 1 — A. About the middle of May, 1871. 

Q. Were you familiar with the books of the board of trustees up to 
the time you ceased to act for them ? — A. Not very ; because it was a 
little out of my line of duty. What acts I performed in that capacity 
were under a power of attorney given to me by John A. Bice, assistant 
treasurer. I did not keep their books. 

Q. What books of that board of trustees is it necessary to procure 
or to examine in order to ascertain what the work under the Oakes 
Ames contract and the Davis contract cost the trustees °? — A. It would 
require the New York books in connection with the Boston books. 

Q. Have you any knowledge as to the reliability of the estimates 
made by the engineers of the XJnion Pacific Bailroad Company on which 
contracts were let ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever make any balancings of the trustees' books at Bos- 
ton ; did you make up any balance-sheet or paper of any kind showing 
the cost of the road to the trustees? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether any such balance-sheet was ever made 
rap % — A. Not to my knowledge. 



Washington, D. C, February 3, 1873. 
C. S. Bushnell recalled. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Do you recollect being at a meeting of the board of direct- 
ors of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company held in Boston on the 8th 
and 9th of March, 1871, when an item of $126,000 was under investiga- 
tion ? — Answer. Yes. 

Q. Were you one of the committee to investigate that account ?~A. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION. PACIFIC RAILROAD. 529 

I hardly think I was one of the committee. I was with the commit- 
tee. 

Q. Were you present at the time that $120,000 matter was investiga- 
ted 1— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. State to the committee whether any vouchers were presented to 
that committee at the time the matter was investigated; and, if so, 
the character of those vouchers"? — A. No vouchers were presented. 
It was based on a statement of my own, which I will make here 
without any hesitation, and with a great deal of pleasure. I will have 
to go hack a little, and state the reasons why the committee came to 
that conclusion. 

In December, 1870, after the action of the Secretary of the Treasury, 
our securities went down almost out of sight, and we had not the money 
on hand to pay the interest on our first-mortgage bonds, due on the 1st 
of January. We had expended the money, some $700,000, in building 
or commencing the building of the Omaha bridge. We had no collat- 
erals on hand to raise the money, except a 10 per cent, bridge-bond, of 
which two and a half millions were issued, and it was almost impossible 
to raise any money on them. Some of our directors, nearly all of them, 
were strongly inclined to the opinion that the money could not possibly be 
raised to pay the interest on the first-mortgage bonds. I had an immense 
amount of Union Pacific Railroad stock which I had bought myself 
and had kept and loaned out, and I could not afford to have it utterly 
lost. One or two of the directors were urging strongly that we should 
make no effort to raise the money to pay the interest, but to let the 
coupons go by default. The majority, however, were very anxious to 
pay the interest and were willing to indorse the notes of the company. 
Five or six of them offered to indorse the notes of the company for three 
or four months, provided we would put up these bridge-bonds at 50 cents 
on the dollar. I took these indorsements on the notes of the treasurer 
and the bridge-bonds and went to New York and raised the money to 
pay the interest. I indorsed the notes myself, and became involved to 
the amount of six or seven hundred thousand dollars. I raised the 
money and we paid our interest. Of course I went to work at once to 
see how we could provide the means to pay these notes at maturity, by 
disposing of our bridge-bonds and our land-grant bonds, and thus to 
get the company out of debt. I went to Philadelphia and had two or 
three interviews with Colonel Seott and J. Edgar Thompson, who said. 
to me that if I would make some arrangement whereby the company 
would be got out of debt they would take hold and advance me a large 
amount of money to carry the securities, but on no other condition than 
that the company should be relieved of its floating debt, and provision 
made for the building of this bridge across the Missouri River. 1 came 
home and sat down and figured up the prices of the securities. The 
land-grant bonds were 54, 54J, and 55 in the market 5 and the best we 
could realize on the bridge-bonds was 50 cents on the dollar, which left 
us iu debt more thau a million dollars to complete the bridge after we 
should sell the bonds at that rate. It was a very extreme case and required 
a very extreme and extraordinary effort. I went on to Boston and made a 
proposition to the company to buy the $2,136,000, or thereabouts, of the 
land-grant bonds. They were then selling in the market at 54 or 55^ and 
I proposed to buy them for myself and those who were associated with me, 
at 70 and accrued interest, which was equal to 72 J, and I proposed to 
buy the two and-a-half million of 10 per cent, bridge bonds at 80 and 
accrued interest. Of course that was far above the market price, but it 
was absolutely necessary to buy them at that high price in order to 
34 c M 



530 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

pay the floating debt of the company. They accepted my proposition. 
I was to pay for the land-grant bonds as the loans matured. These loans 
were running for thirty, sixty, and ninety days, and four months. I 
started instantly, after they accepted my proposition, for Philadelphia, 
and made an arrangement for money with Colonel Scott, and drew for 
five or six hundred thousand dollars on New York. As soon as I re- 
ceived the money I started for Washington. I came here mainly, 
almost entirely, to secure legislation of Congress, whereby the Union 
Pacific Kailroad Company should be authorized to place a mortgage on the 
bridge between Council Bluffs and Omaha, which would make the bonds a 
better security so that I could dispose of them. I found that without that it 
was utterly impossible to do anything with them. I arrived here and under- 
took, myself, to present the case, as I always do. I met the Iowa Repre- 
sentatives here, and they said to me frankly that there was a good deal 
of jealousy between Iowa and Nebraska, between Council Bluffs and 
Omaha, about that bridge, and that they would not move a hair's breadth, 
and had been requested not to move, until General Dodge should confer 
with them. I saw that there was nothing for me to do but to telegraph 
General Dodge, at Council Bluffs, to come on, which I did, stating 
that I would pay all his expenses, and that I would pay him for 
Ms trouble. He came here and met me. I told him what I wanted. 
He at once said that he had borrowed every dollar of money he could 
get on his Union Pacific stock, along in the summer or fall, in 
E'ew York, in order to carry on his business — I think some pork-pack- 
ing business — and that that damned Boutwell ring in the Union Pacific 
Eailroad had ruined him ; that his brokers had sold him out and he was 
ruined. I said, "I cannot help that, but do you go to work and help 
me to carry this bill through, and I will pay you for your expenses and 
time and trouble, and make up all that you have lost." He went to 
work, (everybody knows how General Dodge can work when he sets 
out,) and in less than ten or fifteen days we had the bill through Con- 
gress just exactly as we wanted it, and just exactly right ; and I believe 
nobody has found any fault with it. We settled up all the difficulties 
between Omaha and Council Bluffs for the time, although I believe they 
have broken out since. That was my principal business here at that 
time. I did take a little interest in the matter of legislation that was 
going on, but very little. The principal interest I took was to get up 
and have printed and distributed, and presented, the opinions of the 
best lawyers in the country, and the reports of the committee, and all 
that sort of thing. I never had any fear then (and I told all our people 
so, and my act in buying those bonds at 17 or 18 or 19 above the mar- 
ket price showed it) that on reflection the Government of the United 
States would repudiate its contract with the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company. I knew just what that contract was. I would not spend one 
single dollar to influence Congress to do what is right, for Congress is 
quite sure to find out what is right ; but I did spend a little money, 
a very little ;,;oney, in having printed these reports, and in giving them 
to everybody where they could be of service. 

Now as to the $126,000. We went home to Boston, and had our 
annual election ; but before I went it became evident to myself that I 
could not carry out this purchase, and take up these securities, without 
help from the company. I said so to Colonel Scott I could not pay 
him back the money which he had advanced me without some help, for 
I had given from half a million to a million dollars more for the securi- 
ties than they were worth in the market. He said that we would fix 
that ur» when we got to Boston, but that he must have a little of his 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 531 

money returned to him. We bad a committee appointed ; I went before 
that committee and stated the case — that I had promised General Dodge 
to make him good ; that he had lived up to his contract, and I wanted 
to live up to mine. He figured up what he wanted for his services, and 
what would make good his losses, and I agreed to pay it. This was 
$24,500. It is possible that I gave him something more afterward, but 
that I cannot say. I gave him that amount at that time. Colonel Scott 
wanted a payment on account, as he was short. I asked him how much 
he wanted, and he said $19,000 or $20,000. I took the lower sum, and 
gave him $19,000. The balance of the $126,000 I handed over at once 
to the treasurer of the company, in payment for bonds which I got that 
day from him to take to New York. There is only one account in the 
whole matter, the circumstances of which I cannot distinctly remember. 
I know that Mr. Eollins was here, and that I borrowed a little money 
from him. It did not seem to me that I borrowed as much as $2,500, 
but I may have done so, for I know that I handed him over a draft for 
$2,500. I cannot recollect the details about it. 

Q. Have you any recollection of Mr. Eollins borrowing $2,500 from Mr. 
Ordway for you 1 ? — A. I would not wonder if he did. I borrowed some 
money myself from Mr. Ordway, and very likely he did. 

Q. Is there any further explanation that you desire to make ? — A. No ; 
I do not know that there is. 

Q. For what consideration did you pay General Dodge this $24,500 
of the moneys of the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. For his 
services and expenses in aiding me in procuring the passage of this 
bill to mortgage the bridge over the Missouri Eiver ; solely that and 
nothing more, as I understand it. 

Q. On what account did Mr. Scott want this $19,000 ? — A. On my 
account, due to him. I had borrowed several hundred thousand dol- 
lars to carry those securities which I had purchased. 

Q. And it was on that account that you paid him the $19,000 ? — A. 
Yes. 

Q. You say that you turned over the balance of the $126,000 to the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company in payment for the bonds ? — A. Yes. 

Q. This $126,000 came out of the treasury of the Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company? — A. Yes. 

Q. In what way did the Union Pacific Eailroad Company get com- 
pensation for that $126,000? — A. The only real compensation that* it 
got was in enabling me to carry out my contract and to take its securi- 
ties at from half a million to a million and a half dollars above the market 
price. 

Q. The company simply gave you a bonus of $126,000 on that con- 
tract which you had made to purchase its bonds and these bridge- 
bonds. Is that what it amounted to ? — A. I do not know that you can 
put it in much better shape than that. It was of course to pay my 
expenses in doing it, legal and otherwise. 

Q. You had purchased the bonds from the treasurer at a definite price 
for yourself and your associates ? — A. Yes. 

Q. And the Union Pacific Eailroad Company afterward gave you 
$126,000 to help you on with your contract which you had made. Is 
that your understanding of it? — A. I should not put it in that way, but 
that expression covers it very well. 

Q. That is the substance of it ? — A. That is it essentially. 

Q, Then you will explain to the committee how it happened that this 
was charged up to special legal expenses? What legal. expenses were 
there about it that would cause it to be put on the books of the com- 



532 CREDIT M0BIL1ER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

pany in that particular form ? — A. That was simply a little error, proba- 
bly in writing the resolution. I called my part special expenses, and I 
called General Dodge's part, although he is not a lawyer, legal expenses. 

Q. What were General Dodge's relations at that time to the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company J ? — A. He was pretty sore toward it at that 
time. 

Q. Was he chief engineer at that time ? — A. No, sir ; I think he was 
a director at that time. 

Q. General Dodge was one of the committee to settle that account, 
was he not ? — A. It is my impression that be was. 

Q. Do you know his handwriting? — A. I think so. 

Q. (Showing the witness the report given in the testimony of E. H. 
Eollins.) Is this report, which was made to the board at that time, in 
his handwriting? — A. I think it is. 

Q. Who received the $19,000 check? — A. I received all the checks 
myself. 

Q. WHqo were present at the time you received them? — A. 1 do not 
recollect anybody being present in the cashier's room except Mr. Wil- 
liams, Mr. Spence, and the clerks. Mr. Spence was one of the clerks. 
Mr. Williams, I think, handed them to Spence, and Spence handed them 
to me. I handed General Dodge his and Colonel Scott his ; T do not 
recollect distinctly about Mr. Rollins, but probably I handed him his. 
The balance I handed over to Mr. W T illiams. 

Q. You received $82,500. What was the object of dividing that up 
into three different drafts ?— A. These land-grant bonds were hypothe- 
cated in different places and for various amounts. To get this money 
to pay we had to get bonds, and in order to get the bonds we had to pay 
money. So far as I recollect, these particular drafts were payable in the 
different places where the bonds were. 

Q. Do you recollect whether the bonds were in the banks on which 
the drafts were drawn, or did the bonds accompany the drafts ? — A. The 
bonds were scattered around in the banks in New York and in Boston. 
1 took the drafts and took up the bonds, and let -the bonds go forward 
with the drafts. They went on frequently with the drafts, and some- 
times without them. 

Q. In this particular instance did the bonds go forward with the 
drafts? — A. That I do not recollect; that thing did occur frequently. 

tj. Look at this memorandum [as presented in the testimony of B. W. 
Spence] and state in whose handwriting these figures and words are. — 
A. I cannot tell that. 

Q. Are they in yours? — A. I would not say that they are not, but 
still I cannot say that they are. 

Q. What is your best impression about it ? — A. I do not think they 
are mine. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. I understand you to say that previous to this transaction you had 
engaged to purchase from the Union Pacific Railroad Company certain 
securities? — A. Yes. 

Q. Did you at that time make your contract in writing ? — A. I hardly 
think it was in writing. 

Q. With whom did you make any such agreement or contract? — A. I 
think with the executive committee of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Compnny. 

Q. What members of ifc ; what persons ? — A. Oliver Ames, Mr. Duff, 
Mr. Dillon. What others I cannot recollect now. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 533 

Q. Was there anything in the bargain except an agreement on your 
part to purchase these securities at the prices you have named? — A. 
And to pay for them as the loans matured ; that is all. 

Q. To what persons connected with the Government or the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company did you, at the time of this approval of the 
$126,000, explain or make known how it was made up ? — A. I declare I 
do not recollect anybody. 

Q. You said that you made a statement; to whom did you make it? — 
A. To the board of directors. 

Q. Did you explain to the- board of directors how this $126,000 for 
legal expenses was made up ?— A. Not in detail. 

Q. Did you explain the nature of the transaction as you have ex- 
plained it here ? — A. Not as fully. 

Q. Did you to anybody ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. By what authority did you take from the funds of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company this sum of $126,000 and charge it to special legal 
expenses? — A. By the same authority that I gave them half a million 
dollars more than the market price for the securities when I bought 
them. 

Q. I want to know who authorized the payment to you of this sum of 
$126,000, so far as you know ? — A. The board of directors appointed 
the committee. 

Q. Were you one of that committee ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. To what members of that committee did you explain that trans- 
action ? — A. To the president of the company. 

Q. Mr. Oliver Ames?— A. No, sir; Mr. Scott. 

Q. To any other person ? — A. Yes ; to General Dodge. 

Q. Was General Dodge a director in the company at that time? — A. 
Yes ; and he was on this committee. I do not think that the other 
members of the committee took any action at all or attended. 

Q. You had no previous promise from the company, by which you were 
to be paid this $126,000? — A. I think it was a matter of conversation 
with several of the directors that I might need help, and that if I did 
I should have it. 

Q. You took this $126,000, and the only persons to whom you ex- 
plained why you did it were Mr. Scott, who you say had $19,000 of it, 
and Mr. Dodge, who you say had $24,500 of it?— A. Yes. 

Q. And you three w r ere the three gentlemen who knew about it, and 
you charged it to special legal expenses ? — A. Special and legal was the 
understanding. 

Q. Mr. Dodge's report seems to agree with the charge upon the books. 
He says: "The special committee of the board to which was referred 
the matter of auditing special legal expenses. 77 — A. The record may not 
have been properly copied, but I know it was special and legal. 

Q. The phrase, "special legal expenses," is found first in the resolu- 
tion of the directors appointing the committee, then in the report of 
General Dodge, and then on the ledger. It seems to be a permanent 
error. — A. Yes ; but the first mistake w r as in writing the resolution, 
and the others all followed naturally. 

Q. Why mix up an item for legal expenses of $24,000, or whatever it 
was, with this item of yours for getting help from the company on ac- 
count of the contract which you had previously made ? — A. This was an 
organized meeting of the board, ?.ud there would not be another for 
three months. This was the proper time, if at all, that I should have 
relief. 

Q. But it was not for your relief that General Dodge was paid his 



534 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

bill, was it ? — A. Of course it was. I became obligated to General Dodge 
personally, without any prior authority from the board, and of course I 
wanted to have that fixed. 

Q. Did it not occur to you that it would have been better practice in 
the management of the company not to refer the propriety of the pay- 
ment of $126,000 from its funds to the three gentlemen who were to re- 
ceive the money, and who did not explain the nature of the transaction 
to anybody else ? — A. I was not aware that I was on the committee. 

Q. But you say that you and these two gentlemen were the only 
persons who acted? — A. I presented the case, and those gentlemen 
should have presented it to the other members of the committee. Mr. 
Wilson was not here through the entire Congress. 

Q. None of them served on the committee, so far as you know, except 
Scott and Dodge % — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did it occur to you that it was rather bad practice in the manage- 
ment of the funds of a corporation that a transaction of this kind should 
be only disclosed to the two gentlemen who were to receive so large 
portions of the funds, on the statement of the third gentleman, who re- 
cieved the remainder, and that nobody else in the direction of the com- 
pany knew anything about it? — A. The thought of such a thing did not 
occur to me; I knew that it was perfectly just, and. fair, and equitable. 

Q. Here seems to have been a division, [referring to the memorandum.] 
Here are the figures "7,000" and "7,500,' ; and the letter "L w opposite the 
7,000, Can you give us any explanation what that means? — A. (Ex- 
amining the memorandum.) No; I do not know. 

Q. Do you know whether Mr. Wilson was present during any part of 
this transaction ? — A. I do not recollect that he was present at all. 

Q. In what form did you give Mr. Scott his $19,000 — in cash or in a 
draft ? — A. In a check. I turned right over to him the check which 
Mr. Williams gave. 

Q. Who handed you that check? — A. Mr. Spence, I think, handed all 
the checks to me. 

Q. That is a question of some importance, and therefore I wish you 
to distinguish carefully between what you can say you now remember, 
and what you can think the transaction should have been. Have you 
any memory on the subject? — A. My memory is clear that all the checks 
were handed over to me by Spence. 

Q. That is, you have in your memory now the incident of receiving 
all the checks from him in the office that day? — A. Yes ; receiving them 
all, and handing one over to General Dodge, another to Mr. Scott, and 
the others to Mr. Williams. 

Q. Do you know of any division of any portion of the money into 
seven parts for any purpose ? — A. Not the least. I never heard of such 
a thing before. 

Q. Do you know of any dividing of the $17,500 into seven parts of 
$2,500 each, and adding thereto $7,000 as a part of that transaction? — 
A. No ; not at all. 

Q. Did anything occur in reference to it that would explain it? — A. 
Not a thing. 

Q. Was there any use of the money that would tend to explain or 
give you a hint upon why the letter " L" is written opposite the $7,000? 
— A. Not the least. 

Q. Do you know of making up in any way as a part of this sum the 
item of $43,841.09 ?— A. Not the least. I reduced the interest on these 
two and a half million ten percent, bridge bonds, in the bill that passed 
Congress, to eight per cent., and I told Colonel Scott that it was little 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFJC RAILROAD. 535 

enough for me to expect, after saving tbe company $100,000 in two- 
years' interest, that the company should help me. 

Q. Look at this signature of General Dodge to the report and compare 
it with the letters "G. M. D.," and the word "Dodge" on this little 
paper produced by Mr. Spence, and state whether they seem to be in 
the same handwriting. — A. Yes; I should think so. 

Q. You think they are in General Dodge's handwriting? — A. Yes. 

Q. Look at the figures "1871 " in the report and the figures on this paper 
and state whether they seem to be in the same handwriting. — A. Pre- 
cisely. 

Q. Can you explain in this little memorandum, which appears to con- 
tain words and figures in General Dodge's handwriting, these figures to 
which I have called your attention, and to which I now call your atten- 
tion — the figures "25" and then the figure "7" below, and then a line 
indicating that 25 is multiplied by 7, and then the figures " 175 " below 
as the product u ? Can you explain that as connected with this trans- 
action ? — A. Thev had no connection with it that I can -conceive. 

Q. Can you explain the figures " 7,000 " followed by the letter " L» ?— 
A. No, sir; I do not think that I am as good at hieroglyphics as some 
people. 1 cannot conceive what they are for. 

Q. I desire to call your attention to the precise point the committee 
has to deal with. Mr. Spence says that that memorandum was given to 
him by one of the persons who directed him to make the checks, and 
that bit of paper was his guide, to some extent, in doing so, and that he 
handed to Mr. Wilson, and not to you, the check for $19,000, differing 
from you in that particular ; now, the question is this : If this appears to 
you to be a memorandum given by General Dodge, how can you, in your 
narrative of the transaction, explain it '? That is the point to which I 
wish to call your attention and to ask you to make such explanation as 
you can. — A. I should be most happy to if there was anything by which 
I could refresh my memory. But the whole transaction was as simple 
as anything could be. I had had the interest cut down from 10 per 
cent, to 8 per cent, for the benefit of the company and for Bushnell, too, 
for I never lose sight of myself in working for other people. I had had 
that interest cut down from 10 per cent., which seemed to me to be 
enormous, to 8 per cent., and thus saved the company every year $50,000. 
I remarked to Colonel Scott that I had a big load on my shoulders — that 
I didn't know whether I could carry it through, but one thing was cer- 
tain, that I must have $100,000 as a margin to help me place those 
bonds. He thought it only fair to take two years' savings in interest 
on those bonds and give it to me. It had already cost me $150,000 cash. 
I had sent two men to Europe. 

By Mr. Slooum : 

Q. Do you know why it was that Mr. Dutf did not go into that com- 
mittee 1 — A. I think I had said to Mr. Dulf, prior to that, that I must 
have some aid, some help, and Mr. Duff replied that he was willing to 
consent to it. 1 suppose he felt that on that account he was committed 
to some extent, and didn't want to act on the committee. 

Q. Do you know why Mr. Wilson did not act ? — A. The Government 
directors are the most squeamish men that ever lived about taking any 
responsibility. We had always to take the responsibility, except when 
we started to build the road. Mr. Jesse Williams took some responsi- 
bility in showing us how the road ought to be built, and it cost us five 
or ten millions of dollars by reason of his taking that responsibility. 

Q. Can you conceive of any reason why any of those persons should 



536 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

think that that money was improperly used ? — A. Ifc is barely possible, 
and I am very frank about it, that I had told them I had agreed to 
give General Dodge some compensation. They perhaps thought it was 
too liberal, and didn't want to act upon it. Mr. Wilson was a friend of 
General Dodge, and perhaps didn't want to have it said that he was on 
the committee. 
The committee here took a recess until 2 o'clock. 

On the re-assembling of the committee Mr. Bushnell's examination 
was resumed. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. You have stated the relations you sustained during the years 1870 
and 1871 to the Union Pacific Bailroad Company. — A. I was a director. 

Q. What is the date, so far as you recollect it, of the issue of those 
bridge-bonds about which you have testified to ? — A. The 10 per cent, 
bonds? 

Q. The first bonds that were issued ? — A. They were issued in the 
latter part of the year 1870 ; that is my memory. 

Q. Were they the bonds of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company as 
such ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. They were the bonds of the company bearing 10 per cent? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. What fund were those bonds to be payable out off — A. They were 
nominally or really, I don't know which, supposed to be a mortgage or 
a deed of trust on the bridge, and were to be paid out of the proceeds 
of the earnings for freight and traffic and transportation of passengers 
over the bridge. Those bonds, if I remember rightly, also provided for 
a sinking-fund. 

Q. Have you a copy of any one of those bonds that you can furnish 
the committee? — A. I have none in my possession, bat I think I can 
get you one if they were not ail destroyed when the new issue was sub- 
stituted. I can get you the resolution upon which they were issued. 

Q. W 7 as the obligation which the bonds contained one that limited 
the liability of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company in their payment to 
those specific proceeds, or did the bondholders become entitled to go 
against all the assets of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company? — A. My 
impression is that the only remedy was against the earnings of the 
bridge. 

Q. Now what amount of those bonds were out at the date you made 
the purchase you have spoken of? — A. Fourteen to sixteen hundred 
thou and dollars of them had been issued and hypothecated with the 
notes of the treasurer, to raise money to pay the interest on the 1st of 
January, 1871. 

Q. That is to say, the Union Pacific Bailroad Company obtained loans 
and gave these bonds as collateral to raise money to the amount of 
$1,600,000 or about that sum? — A. Yes, sir; the amount of the bonds 
was fourteen or sixteen hundred thousand dollars ; the money raised on 
them was about seven or eight hundred thousand dollars. 

Q. Where did the company raise that money on this collateral ? — A. 
I raised most of it myself in New York, but we could not raise it on 
these collaterals alone; the notes of the treasurer were indorsed by 
John Duff, Oakes Ames, Oliver Ames, J. M. S. Williams, Sidney Dillon, 
and myself. 

Q. When did you get that accommodation for which this collateral 
was pledged ? — A. I got that accommodation fioJi the 28th to the 30th 
of December, 1870. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 537 

Q. Under what authority of law were those bridge-bonds issued? — 
A. Under the general authority in the charter. 

Q. The act of 18G4 ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What section contains that general authority ? — A. I think it is 
under the general authority ; if not, it is a general law : but I think it is 
the charter. I cannot turn to the section. 

Q. The bonds purported to be secured by a mortgage, you say ? — A. 
A mortgage or a trust-deed. I do not know just the legal term. 

Q. Was that mortgage or trust-deed executed and put upon record 
before the date of your purchase of the bonds? — A. I do not know 
with regard to the placing of it on record. The new one, I think, was, 
but I do not remember about the first one. I doubt whether it was 
placed on record. 

Q. Then those bonds were issued to this amount, and pledged as col- 
lateral for a loan in New York, and this trust-deed or mortgage', which- 
ever it was, was provided for and stipulated for prior to the passage of 
the act of 1871, which you have described as the one General Dodge 
got through? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. There was no authority for it, unless it was the authority con- 
tained in the general provisions of the charter ; there was no special 
authority, was there? — A. No; only the general grant. 

Q. When was it that you made the purchase of a million and a quar- 
ter of securities, I think you said, above their actual value? — A. That 
was in the month of January. . 

Q. After they were deposited as collateral in New York? — A. Yes, 
sir j after we raised the money and spent it, I began to think how we 
could get it to pay again, so that these notes would not go to protest. 

Q. I believe you said that that contract was a distiuct, well-under- 
stood, and defined contract on your part, whereby you purchased bonds 
that belonged to the Union Pacific Kailroad Company to the amount of 
what sum ? — A. Two million five hundred thousand dollars in bridge- 
bonds, two million one hundred and thirty-six thousand dollars in land- 
grant bonds. 

Q. At what price each class? — A. Eighty per cent, and accrued in- 
terest for the bridge-bonds, and 70 percent, and accrued interest, which, 
at the time I made the purchase, made it 72^ per cent, for the land- 
grant bonds. 

Q. What did you do with those bonds after you bought them ; were 
they delivered to you? — A. 1 had already hypothecated fourteen or 
sixteen hundred thousand dollars of the bridge-bonds to raise money. 
The land-grant bonds were already hypothecated on a loan of twelve or 
fifteen hundred thousand dollars, probably in fifty different places, the 
loans running all the way from ten days to four months. My contract 
was to take up those bonds and pay for them as fast as the loans ma- 
tured, so there would be no . loss of interest. It took, I think, four 
months before all these bonds came into my possession. The company 
having paid the interest in advance on these loans, didn't wish to lose it. 

Q. I desire to ask one question about this memorandum. Please look 
at it again and see whether the 7 multiplied into 2,500, producing 17,500, 
and added to the 7,000, is not the way in which the 21,500 was made up 
that General Dodge drew? — A. Y"es. 

Q. Now is it not a fact that the amount that General Dodge got was 
arrived at by taking that 7,000, whicli stands with " L v opposite it, 
and adding it to the 17,500, which is obtained by multiplying 2,500 by 7, 
producing, all together, 24,500 ? — A. Y r es, sir ; on that basis it would ap- 
pear so. 



538 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Can you tell us how General Dodge came to be entitled to the 
24,500 unless you are able to explain how the 2,500 came to be multi- 
plied by 1% — A. Well, I do not like to testify to a thing I don't know, 
but my impression is, and yet I may be entirely wrong, that this is his 
loss on 2,500 shares of stock, Union Pacific stock. That is my memory. 

Q. Seven per cent, loss on 2,500 shares of Union Pacific stock f — A. 
That is my impression. I think I had agreed with him to guarantee 
him against any loss, and he came up to me and asked me to carry ont 
my promise. 

Q. Then he had suffered a loss of 7 per cent, on 2,500 shares ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

,Q. Then how do you explain the 7,000 part of it with the " L" oppo- 
site it! — A. My explanation is that he thought that little enough to pay 
his expenses and services in the matter. 

Q. (By Mr. Hoar.) Does the " L » stand for little enough?— A. Pro- 
bably so. (Laughter.) 

Q. I see this act, which you say General Dodge was efficient in getting 
through, 1)1*0 vides "that for the more perfect connection of any rail- 
roads that are or shall be constructed to the Missouri River at or near 
Council Bluffs, Iowa, and Omaha, Nebraska, the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company be, and it is hereby, authorized to issue such bonds, and to 
secure the same by mortgage on the bridge and the approaches and ap- 
purtenances, as it may deem needful to construct and maintain this 
bridge over said river, and the tracks and depots required to perfect the 
same, as now authorized by law of Congress." Now, you observe that 
this act authorizes the issuing of bonds and the giving of a mortgage. 
How came that provision to be put in the law in regard to bonds which 
you had already issued and secured by a mortgage or deed of trust ? 
Or, in other words, how came you to issue bonds and sell them at a 
sacrifice, when the law which you say authorized their issuance was not 
in existence ? I allude to the law of the 24th of February, 1871. — A. It 
was because that without that law T they could not get fifty cents on a 
dollar for them. 

Q. The railroad, however, seems to have issued a very large amount 
of bonds when there was no law to authorize their issue, and then sold 
them to you at a very great discount, and which you say was still too 
high. How came that to be done before there was any law authorizing 
those bonds to be issued ? — A. I did not intend to say before that there 
was any authority to mortgage the bridge j only the common law that any 
company may have the right to mortgage its property, which mortgage 
would come in without authority of Congress behind all prior mortgages. 
Mr. Sidney Bartlett, of Boston, a very able lawyer, worked more or less 
for two years to get up a deed of trust, under which our people felt at 
all safe to buy these bridge-bonds. Our negotiations were long and 
tedious to get any one to take hold of those bonds, and no one would 
take hold of them, because they were represented as no better, to say 
the least, than the income-bonds, which were then selling in the market 
at 30. When I bought these bridge-bonds theineome-bonds were selliDg 
at 30, and Mr. Bartlett frankly said that the trust-deed was the best 
thing he could do ; that it might and might not hold water and hold 
the earnings of the bridge as against prior mortgages. He did not have 
any faith that I could go to Congress and get legislation, and I do not 
think that many of our people had much hope, either. I thought it was 
only right thatVe should have the legislation. If any of you gentlemen 
have been over the road, as I have time and again, you will acknowl- 
edge that the Missouri needed a bridge the worst of any river in the 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 539 

world. I had my whole soul enlisted in having a bridge there. I think 
it is one of the ablest things I have ever done. I took those bonds at 
80 when the income-bonds, that our people said were just as good, were 
selling at 30. 

Q. Please state whether an additional claim made by the parties in 
interest to construct the road under the Oakes Ames contract, and 
which was based upon the rapidity with which the work was done and 
for other causes, was allowed and paid by the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company? — A. My memory is that there was. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. I would like to ask you in relation to this transaction of the checks. 
Did Mr. Spence give you the checks to take in to Mr. Rollins for him to 
indorse? — A. My memory is that it was all done at Mr. Spence's desk. 
Their desks were almost adjoining. 

Q. Whose desks'?— A. Mr. Spence's desk and Mr. Williams's were 
close together, and Mr. Rollins's desk was two steps off into another 
room. 

Q. Then Mr. Spence and Mr. Williams had their desks in the same 
room, and Mr. Rollins's desk was a step or two off, but through an open 
door 1— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. These checks are in the first place signed in blank by Mr. Williams, 
the treasurer, as I understand it, then filled up by Mr. Spence, his as- 
sistant and cashier, then indorsed by Mr. Rollins, and then indorsed by 
Mr. Spence. Now, did you not take these checks to Mr. Rollins for his 
indorsement ? — A. My memory is that they were perfect when they were 
handed over to me — all indorsed. 

Q. Did you not take them from Spence to Rollins ? — A. I might have 
done so, but my impression is that I took them from the high desk used 
by Mr. Spence. There were three or four checks coming to me — the 
$19,000 check went to Colonel Scott and the $24,500 check to General 
Dodge. 

Q. You have no recollection, then, of Mr. Rollins receiving them after 
they were first filled up by Mr. Spence. How did Mr. Rollins's name 
get on them, as you remember the transaction % — A. As I remember the 
transaction the indorsements were all on when I received the cheeks. 
They came to me all perfect ; that is my recollection. 

Q. Do you know whether Spence went into the Secretary's room, got 
them from Rollins and brought them back while you, Dodge, and Will- 
iams were waiting at his desk"? — A. No ; that is entirely outside of my 
memory. Do not understand me to say that it is not so, but simply that 
I have no recollection of it. 

Q. Then, according to your recollection, Mr. Rollins didn't deliver the 
checks to the parties for whom they were intended % — A. That is my 
recollection. 

Q. Do you know whether Rollins knew for whom they were intend- 
ed 1—A. I do not, 

Q. Did you give Mr. Dodge the check on the day. of the transac- 
tion?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the check to Colonel Scott f— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You didn't send their checks to them by mail or express f — A. No, 
sir. 

The examination of the witness was here temporarily suspended for 
the purpose of recalling Mr. Spence, who was examined by Mr. Hoar as 
follows : 

Q. Where was Mr. Scott at the time of this transaction f — A. I do not 



540 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

recollect Mr. Scott being in the office at that time. He had been there 
in the morning, but I do not think he was present when I handed these 
checks to Mr. Bushnell. 

Q. How are the checks draw by you in the usual course of busi- 
ness? — A. The checks are signed in blank by Mr. Williams and made 
payable to my order. I fill them out from time to time, when necessary, 
indorse them, and then send them to Mr. Eollins for his indorsement. 

Mr. Bushnell's examination was resumed. 
By the Chairman : 

Q. Do we understand you to say that you bought the first issue of 
the Omaha bridge-bonds from the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. And that was before the passage of the act authorizing the bridge 
to be mortgaged to secure the bonds ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did the passage of that act enhance the value of the bridge- 
bonds ? — A. It did in mv estimation, very largely. 

Q. You received this $126,000 on the 9th of March, 1871 ?— A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. The act authorizing the mortgage of this bridge was passed 24th 
of February, 1871 ? — A. I do not know the exact date. 

Q. New, having procured the passage of that act, which, as you say, 
greatly enhanced the value of the bonds, what reason was there for the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company, of which you are one of the directors, 
giving you a bonus of $126,000 upon that occasion 1 ? — A. Well, sir, I 
had reduced the interest from 10 to 8 per cent. You will have, in order 
to appreciate my motive, to understand my object in buying those bonds, 
which was to pay off the floating debt. When we had secured this leg- 
islation, and the interest had been reduced from 10 to 8 per cent., thereby 
saving $50,000 a year to the company, it seemed then to me that it was 
but just and equitable that the company, being then able, should help 
make me good for the large sacrifice I had undertaken. 

Q. You were the bona-fide holder of these bridge-bonds for yourself 
and your associates, were you not? — A. I held them for myself. I bought 
them as C. S. Bushnell, agent, but I was the sole owner of them. 

Q. What was the amount of them? — A. Two and a half millions and 
over. 

Q. And you were sole owner of these bonds ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Owner of the bonds bearing 10 per cent. ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And you voluntarily reduced the interest to 8 per cent. ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. And in consideration of that you received $126,000 ? — A. Yes, sir; 
$100,000 in round numbers. I had to pay something to Dodge out of 
that. I have only regretted since, and I think it would have been no 
more than equitable, that the company did not allow me a little more. 
I think I ought to have had more. 

Q. Did you have any expenses to pay out of that $126,000 besides 
what you paid Dodge? — A. I had to pay to carry those bonds. I, of 
course, could not carry them, and I had to pay for it liberally. 

Q. That was interest? — A. Interest, commissions, and everything of 
that sort. 

Q. Did you pay anything to agents besides what you paid to Dodge ? — 
A. What do you mean by agents? 

Q. 1 mean to distinguish between payments for interest and commis- 
sions in getting these loans, and payments for any purpose in getting 
this legislation through? — A. No, sir; none connected with the legisla- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 541 

tion. I sent agents abroad to dispose of those bonds. They were all 
legitimate expenses that every one will find himself obliged to incur 
when he has to work off $4,000,000 of bonds. It cost me more than I 
anticipated. 

Q. I hand you here the record-book of the board of trustees and ask 
you to read the resolution I have marked so that may be incorporated 
in your testimony. — A. I will do so. 

"No. 20 Nassau Street, 

u New York, January 3, 18GS. 

"Mr. Bushnell offered the following resolution: Resolved, That the 
treasurer pay over to the Credit Mobilier of America, in accordance with 
the provisions of the contract of Oakes Ames with the Union Pacific 
•Railroad Company, of August 1G, 1867, and the assignment to the trus- 
tees, the sum of $1,104,000, or a sufficient sum to enable them to make 
the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company held by them full-paid. 
Carried unanimously." 

Q. That is the record-book of the board of trustees, is it not? — A. It 
is so indorsed. 

Q. Will you explain what that was for? — A. My memory is that in 
accordance with the original contract made by the trustees with the 
Credit Mobilier, the Credit Mobilier guaranteed to furnish them with 
funds to enable them to carry out the contract for 2J per cent, commis- 
sion, and it was in fulfillment of that agreement this money was appro- 
priated. 

Q. What is the meaning, then, of the phraseology " or a sufficient sum 
to enable them to make the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany held by them full-paid V — A. I can give you that at once. I think 
the Credit Mobilier of America held a very large amount of stock in the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company on which percentages had been paid, 
but not fully paid up. I know one instance myself. I bought for the 
Credit Mobilier some $20,000 worth of stock, on which there had only 
been 10 or 20 per cent, paid up, and the Credit Mobilier paid the parties 
various prices, but generally par. I do not think it varied much from 
par. For instance, from S. B. Chittenden I bought his stock for the 
Credit Mobilier and paid him just what he had paid in. The Credit 
Mobilier bought all this stock where the parties did not want to take 
Credit Mobilier stock, but in every instance we offered them their money 
— just that they had paid in, and in some cases interest. I don't know 
but that we offered them interest in all cases; but, as a general rule, we 
gave them what they had paid for the stock, and had it transferred to 
the Credit Mobilier. And this money appropriated by the resolution 
was a sufficient sum to make that stock full- paid. It is a considerable 
time since the transaction occurred, but that is my version of it. 
I would like to say, now, in connection with that matter, that while 1 do 
not find fault with the committee, it seems to me that they have not 
made quite prominent enough — and a good deal of undeserved censure 
has come upon the Credit Mobilier managers in consequence — the fact 
that they took so much pains to get the assent of every stockholder in 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and when we could not get the 
assent we bought the stock from them, paying them what it has cost 
them. I have been connected with railroad corporations since I was a 
young man, and I have never known a case where so much pains was 
taken to get the unanimous consent of those connected with the rail- 
road as in this instance. 

Q. Do you know where the document containing that assent is to be 



542 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

found, except so far as it appears from the receipt given for the divi- 
dends? — A. I do not ; I suppose it must be in the New York office. 

Q. Have you ever seen such a document? — A. O, yes; I myself got 
the assent in many cases. 

Q. Was it not on the receipt for dividends ? — A. I do not remember 
just how the form was. We did get the assent of every one, and it was 
made a condition to get the assent of every one. 

Q. How do you know the assent of every.one was obtained ? — A. 
Well, I believe one was not got. 

Q. How do you know the assent of all but one was obtained ? — A. 
Mr. Durant and myself made it an object to get the assent of every one. 
He determined that the contract should not be made unless we got the 
assent of every one. I give him the credit for that. 

By Mr. SLOCUM : 

Q. W T ho was president of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company during 
the construction of the road % — A. General Dix, up to the time he went 
to Europe. 

Q. Do you know how much stock General Dix held in the Union Pa- 
cific Railroad Company ? — A. My memory is, five hundred shares. 

Q. Do you know where he got it?— A. Not sufficient to swear to. I 
know well enough to my own mind. 

Q. You know it was presented to him by the Credit Mobilier ?— A. 
No, sir ; it was not. 

Q. You know it was not? — A. It was not. 

Q. Where did he get it ? — A. If you were to have Mr.- Durant on the 
stand he could explain it better than I could. 

Q. I would rather have you answer my question. — A. Well, sir, Gen- 
eral Dix's stock, it is my impression, was paid for by Mr. Durant. He 
paid the first, and may be the second, installment on it. 

Q. Paid for by Mr. Durant, and not by the Credit Mobilier ?— A. No, 
sir ; it was not paid for by the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. It came out of Mr. Durant's own pocket ? — A. I don't like to swear 
to that, but you can find that out positively by asking Mr. Durant. 

Q. Do you know when General Dix parted with those shares? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. When ? — A. When he was in Europe. 

Q. Soon after he left the country? — A. During the time he was 
abroad. 

Q. What did he get for it ? — A. Fifty thousand dollars. 

Q. He got par for it ? — A. He got par for it. 

Q. Cash ?— A. Cash. 

Q. Who bought it ? — A. The Credit Mobilier of America, if I remem- 
ber rightly. 

Q. What induced them to buy it at par ? — A. The same inducement 
that we had for purchasing Mr. Chittenden's. 

Q. What induced you to buy Mr. Chittenden's at par ? Has the 
stock ever sold in the market at par ? — A. No, sir. The highest cash 
price in Wall street was never over seventy or seventy-five cents, since 
I have ever known anything about it. 

Q. What price was it when General Dix wanted to dispose of his ? — 
A. There was really no stock in the market then; there was very little 
changed hands. 

Q. What did you regard the value of it at that time ?— A. I was very 
sanguine ; I thought it was worth 75 or 80. 

Q. Other people didn't se,em to think so ?— A. Other people didn't 
think so ; they didn't have so much faith in the enterprise as I had. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 543 

Q. How did you come to pay par for this stock ?-*-A. We offered to 
parties holding stock in the Union Pacific Railroad Company, as far as 
I remember, if they didn't want to keep their stock and pay it up in full 
they might take what it cost them, or they could take Credit Mobilier 
stock j I offered that to parties in New York ; I don't know whether I 
had authority to do so; we offered to pay them just what it cost them. 

Q. You don't mean to say General Dix paid par for his j was it not 
given to him bv Dr. Durant 1 ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Why did you give him $50,000 for 500 shares of stock?— A. Well, 
there were a combination of reasons why that was done. 

Q. Let us know what they are ; if you know of any reason just give 
it to us. — A. General Dix was represented to us as being somewhat 
aggrieved by having been left out of the presidency of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company. He made us a very eloquent speech when'he left, 
and stated that he preferred to remain president than to take the posi- 
tion of minister to Prance, and that he would not go off if he had to 
give up his position as president of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany. 

Q. Now, Mr. Bushnell, don't you know of his having written a letter 
to S. L. M. Barlow, which was read to certain of your directors, which 
induced you to pay this money and buy this stock at par $ — A. I saw 
a letter in the hands of Mr. Barlow purporting to have been written by 
General Dix. 

Q. And the letter was of such character as alarmed your company and 
compelled you to pay this money % — A. We were led to believe from that 
letter, and from the remarks of Mr. Barlow, that it was advisable to buy 
that stock. 

Q. You thought it was greatly for the interest of the company te pay 
par for this stock and give him $50,000 for what was not worth $20,000? — 
A. Well, I don't say that ; I don't like to decrj^ the securities of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company ; I had always great faith in them. 

Q. Who was the treasurer of the company at the time the bonds were 
issued — the first-mortgage bonds of the company % — A. Mr. Cisco was 
treasurer at that time. 

Q. And General Dix president 1 — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was paid to each of those parties for signing the bonds over 
and above their salary ? — A. I do not remember hearing of their receiv- 
ing anything over and above their salaries. 

Q. Don't you know that the ledger shown here the other day had an 
entry of $25,000 paid them?— A. I did not look at the ledger. My 
memory is that they didn't receive anything above their salaries of $8,000 
a year. 

Q. You never heard of their having had extra pay for signing the 
bonds ? — A. I never did. 

Q. Did you ever hear of the Union Pacific Railroad being advised to 
give a retainer of $10,000 to a candidate for the United States Senate ? — 
A. No, sir. 

Q. Never heard of the company paying that amount for that pur- 
pose 1 — A. No, sir. 

Q. Didn't you ever hear that a member of Congress urged the Union 
Pacific Railroad to pay to Mr. Carpenter, who was a candidate for the 
Senate, a retainer of $10,000 on the ground that he was friendly to 
the company? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Never heard of that ? — A. No. 

Q. Did you ever hear of any amount being paid to him as a retainer 



544 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

while lie was a candidate for the United States Senate ? — A. No, sir, 
not a cent. 

Q. Never heard that subject mentioned ? — A. Not the payment of any 
money, or that he proposed a retainer, or anything of that sort. 

Q. Never heard it suggested? — A. I can't say that I didn't hear some 
rumor of that kind ; but I w 7 on't say a word to injure anybody. It is 
nothing I can testify to. 

Q. Do you know that any money was paid to him as a retainer ? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. You don't know whether it was paid or not ? — A. No, sir ; I don't 
know of a single dollar either in 1864, or 1867, or in 1871 ; not one single 
dollar used to pay a retainer in Congress of any Senator, or anybody 
connected with Congress, to influence them to do anything. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. I want to know something in regard to the character of that 
letter — what General Dix said in that letter, if you recollect it $ — A. Mr. 
Barlow held that letter in his hand. He didn't let me take it or any of 
the rest of the directors. 

Q. You read that letter 1 — A. He read a few lines, which would not 
enable me to give the character of the letter. It was to the effect that 
Mr. Barlow had authority to settle the matter. 

Q. It was in a complaining spirit; complaining of the action of the 
road in not being more liberal to hiin ? — A. I cannot go into details. 

Q. You state you saw the letter. What induced you to make him 
hat donation ? — A. It was from the very few lines that Mr. Barlow read 
showing that he had authority to sell the stock, and from what Mr. 
Barltw said that it contained. 

Q. Was not the letter in a complaining spirit; was it not a threaten- 
ing letter? — A. I thiuk it was in a complaining spirit. 

Q. And he threatened you that unless this stock was purchased he 
would take some action in reference to the matter? — A. I want to cor- 
rect my testimony. When f said that Mr. Durant gave that stock, it is 
barely possible that it was voted to General Dix by the company or by 
the Credit Mobilier, as extra salary or compensation for services. 

Q. You say you have no distinct recollection about it? — A. lean 
only give my impressions. 

Q. You know certainly it was given to him? — A. I can only say, as I 
have done before, that that is my impression. I would not swear posi- 
tively in regard to it. 

Q. What was the nature of this letter which you say was in a com- 
plaining spirit; you saw the letter or read part of it? — A. Mr. Barlow 
showed a part of it. 

Q. Was it not threatening as to the bonds — as to the reception your 
bonds would meet with in Europe — if you do not take the stock at that 
price ? — A. I am not prepared to say. 

Q. What is your best recollection on that point? — A. My best recol- 
lection is that there was something to that effect either in the letter 
itself or in what Mr. Barlow stated, which may ha\*e been possibly 
without any authority from General Dix. 

Q. What is the relation of Barlow to Dix?— A. He was his counsel 
in that particular. The part of the letter I saw showed that he was 
authorized to act for him. 

Q. Is he not a partner of General Dix's son-in-law ? — A. I did not 
know that. 

Q. You say positively you never heard of a large amount of money 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 545 

being allowed to the president and treasurer, over and above their 
salary, for signing bonds? — A. I do not know ; everything of that kind 
is a matter of record. We want to account for every dollar that has 
gone into that road. We did pay a large amouut to these trustees for 
signing the bonds; we also paid a large amount for advertising the 
bonds — no more, however, than the parties earned ; but it amounted to 
a large sum. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. You paid large amounts to the trustees for signing the bonds? — 
A. Yes, sir; the trustees under the first mortgage. All those things 
cost a good deal of money, and it is only fair that they should enter into 
the cost of building the road. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. How long was General Dix president of the road according to your 
memory ? — A. From the summer of 1864 until he went to France, which 
was, if I remember rightly, in 1868. 

Q. Three or four years ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. How much of his time, before he went to France, did the duties of 
his position occupy ! — A. After the commencement of 1865 he was at 
the office very uniformly, very regularly. 

Q. It was constant employment ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What was the salary paid to the president, the regular standing 
salary ? — A. My memory is, $8,000 a year. 

Q. Now do you know whether it is not a fact that during those years 
the managers of New England manufacturing establishments, men whose 
experience had never been outside of their mills, were being paid at the 
rate of from eighteen to twenty-five thousand dollars a year for man- 
aging their establishments? — A. I was not weir acquainted with the 
mills down there. 

Q. Do you know what salaries were paid at that time for men of skill 
or reputation for managing business concerns ? Were they not, imme- 
diately after the close of the war, much higher than they were before or 
since ? — A. I think they were pretty large. I can illustrate it, if you 
please, in the matter of myself. I charged $10,000 a year for my ser- 
vices. I gave pretty much all my time. Owing to a quarrel, which re- 
sulted here in these national quarrels, my account was not adjusted. I 
was determined, however, to have my pay, and I took the money and 
gave them my checks, which now lie unpaid with my receipt. 

Q. That was undoubtedly an important point to you, but it does not 
seem so important to me. I want to know the current rates, if you 
know, and if you don't know you can say so, which, during the years 
immediately concluding the war, prevailed for the management of large 
business concerns ? — A. I have no specific knowledge. I don't think 
$8,000 was too large a sum. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. For one who devoted his whole time ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You say General Dix was president during the construction of the 
road? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And devoted his whole time to his duties as president ? — A. I 
don't say his whole time. He attended the office every day. 

Q. He was then cognizant of the fact that in this Oakes Ames con- 
tract for buikling six hundred and sixty-seven miles of road you took in 
some road that had already been built and accepted by the Govern- 
35CM 



546 CREDIT MOBILIER AKD UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

ment % — A. If lie was president during that time, as I think he was, 
he did. 

Q. He knew of the fact of your getting the consent of all the stock- 
holders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company that the Credit Mobilier, 
composed as it was of the men who were running the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company, should have the contract to build the road, thus making, 
in fact, a bargain with themselves. He knew of that if he was presi- 
dent and did his full duty ? — A. I think he knew of everything that 
was going on, and he didn't see anything wrong. 

Q. You think he knew of everything that has been brought out here, 
and approved of it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You think he earned his $8,000 a year in approving of those 
things? — A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Did General Dix remain president after he went abroad? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. How long ? — A. Until the next election ; I do not remember the 
exact date. 

Q. Do you know whether this Credit Mobilier contract and the trans- 
actions connected with it were during General Dix's presidency or dur- 
ing the presidency of Mr. Oliver Ames? — A. The only contract the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company ever had ^with the Credit Mobilier of 
America was under the direction of and executed by General Dix. 

Q. Under that contract there was a dividend of 12 per cent, to the 
Credit Mobilier % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And there was only one dividend 1 — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The subsequent contract under which these large dividends were 
made, was that executed under General Dix or Oliver Ames I — A. The 
execution of it, if I remember, was by Mr. Ames, in the fall of the year, but 
it should not be lost sight of, in this investigation, that the real fact 
was that this Oakes Ames contract was a matter of understanding and 
agreement early in the spring of 1867, but it did not take shape and 
execution until the fall, and during the intermediate time this one hun- 
dred miles of road was built. 

Q. Now it is important to know whether General Dix, so far as your 
knowledge extends, was president of the road at the time that under- 
standing was had % — A. It is my memory that he was. I don't know 
whether the committee have found out, but I have never seen it pub- 
lished, the fact that we never made one single dollar to my satisfaction 
in building the Union Pacific Eailroad east of Cheyenne or west of Car- 
buncle. We made our whole money in an incredibly short time in 
building the road from Cheyenne, one hundred and fifty miles west, but 
not a dollar can be shown that we made west of that one hundred and 
fifty miles, and I do not believe we made one dollar east of Cheyenne. 
It was a fortunate circumstance that the Eocky Mountains were not 
what we anticipated they would be, and but for that lucky strike we 
would have lost money. We got $96,000 a mile for building that piece 
of road, and it didn't cost us so much as that for which we got $64,000 
a mile, and the nation ought to know that had the Eocky Mountains 
been what they thought they would be, we would never have got out of 
that contract with one single dollar in our pockets. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 
Q. I will ask you a question here, whether you agree with Mr. Durant 
that the nature and character of that pass through the Eocky Mountains 
was known in 1863 1 — A. He might have known it ; nobody else knew 



CKEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 547 

it, and I don't believe he knew it. Mr. Benjamin E. Bates, of Boston, 
was one of our seven trustees under the Oakes Ames contract. At the 
price at which he sold his profits under that contract, the whole profit 
would not have amounted to $5,000,000, but he sold at an unfortunate 
time, when Mr. Bout well made this attack upon us, as we call it. I sold 
my profits as favorably, I think, as anybody, and at the rate at which I 
sold them the whole profits of the company, all told, under this contract 
would have been less than $11,000,000 on an outlay of over $90,000,000. 

By Mr. Sloctjm : 

Q. What did you get for the Union Pacific stock i — A. I got for my 
Union Pacific from 30 down to 20. 

Q. That was what time ?— A. That was in the fall of 1867. 

Q. That was about the time General Dix went to France, was it not ? — 
A. I don't remember just the time he went. 

Q. He was appointed by Johnson just before his administration 
closed? — A. I cannot go into the details of these things. I think so. 

Q. General Grant came into the Presidency in 1869 ; it must have 
been at the time you sold your stock for 20? — A. It might have. The 
stock went down pretty fast when the raid was made. We have had 
several raids upon us and the stock has gone down. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Here is the report for 1866, in which I find the name of Oliver 
Ames, as president pro tern., and Jolm.A. Dix, president. Now, can you 
explain how Oliver Ames in that year comes to be reported as president 
pro tern, f — A. I cannot say. 

Q. Look at this report for 1869, by which it appears that Oliver Ames 
was president during 1867. Now I ask you whether from your recollec- 
tion, after looking at these two documents, General Dix during the 
year 1866 ceased practically to exercise the duties of the office, and Mr. 
Oliver Ames took his place as president pro tern., and during the 
entire year 1867 Mr. Oliver Ames was president % — A. Mr. Oliver Ames 
was president pro tem., bat did not attend to the business in New York. 
Mr. Durant, being vice-president, attended to the duties there. 

Q. The fact I want to get out is when General Dix practically ceased 
to be president? — A. I think it was the spring of 1867 when he went 
abroad, but I may be inistaken. 

Q. I now desire to call your attention to this report, of which I will 
read the first sentence : " Sir : In accordance with the provisions of 
section 20 of the act of July 1, 1862, 1 have the honor to submit in behalf 
of the Union Pacific Railroad Company the following annual report ex- 
tending from January 1, 1866, to December 31, 1866." Annexed is a 
list of officers for that period, showing Oliver Ames to be president pro 
tern., John A. Dix president, and the report is signed " Oliver Ames, 
president pro tempore of the Union Pacific Railroad Company." Would 
it not appear from that statement that Mr. Ames's assumption of the 
duties of the president pro tern, occurred some time prior to Decem- 
ber 31, 1866 i — A. No ; it would be prior to the date of the signing of 
that report. 

Q. This appears, does it not, to be the report of the president of that 
company from January 1, 1866, to December 31, 1866 ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The report is made in 1867, but it is a report of what happened in 
1866? -A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, it gives a list of officers during the period of 1866, and in that 
list of officers are the names of Oliver Ames, president pro tern., and 
John A. Dix, president. Now, would it not appear from this statement 



548 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

sworn to June 28, 1867, that Mr. Ames assumed the duties of president 
pro tem., for some reason, prior to December 31, 1866? — A. It would, 
according to the list in the report, but according to the signing of it, 

would be prior to the date of signing. My memory is 

Q. But what has the date of signing to do with it ? — A. You are cor- 
rect ; it would appear from this report that he was president pro tern. 
some portion of the year 1866. 

By Mr. Sloctjm : 

Q. A few minutes ago, in your examination, comparison was drawn 
between the salary of the president of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany and the head of some of the factories in New Eu gland, and 1 inferred 
from your evidence that you thought General Dix devoted himself en- 
tirely to his office during the time he was president. — A. I did not so 
state. I said he came every day to the office. 

Q. I thought the implication was that he had earned his money by 
devoting his time to the duties of his office. Now I would like you to 
say whether he did or did not devote himself to the duties of the of- 
fice. — A. The active duties of the company were done by Dr. Durant 
and myself. General Dix came down to the office every day, as I re- 
member, and attended to such duties as he was expected to attend to as 
president, the execution of documents and the answering of letters. 

Q. That did not take up all his time ? — A. I did not intimate that it 
did. 

Q. Did he draw any salary after he became minister to France ? — A. 
I cannot say that he did. 

Q. Do you know whether he did or not % — A. I do not. 

Q. Don't you know that he drew his salary besides selling this stock % — 
A. I think it was understood generally by the New York interests that 
General Dix was to continue president of the road until he returned, 
and I think General Dix was disappointed because he was not continued 
president of the road. That is my impression ; and I think that was 
the purport of his eloquent speech when he left, that he would not go 
to France and disconnect himself from the company. 

Q. Well, now, Mr. Bushnell, didn't General Dix force the company to 
buy his stock at par when it was not worth over 30, under a threat of 
discrediting the bonds in Europe % — A. You would not consider your- 
self bound by everything your counsel did. General Dix might have 
been willing to take one-quarter what he got. 

Q. But yOu understood through his counsel that your bonds were 
liable to be discredited in Europe if you didn't buy five hundred shares 
from him at par. Didn't you so understand from Mr. Barlow ? — A. I 
would not say that. 

Q. Was not that the burden of this letter that Barlow read to you % — 
A. I would not say that. 

Q. Would you say it was not I — A. I would not. 

Q. Give us the tenor of the letter. — A. He did not show enough of 
that letter for me to say. If you summon Mr. Barlow here he can toll 
you all about it. I don't want to reflect on any living man,' unless I 
know the facts. I know both gentlemen, and I think very highly of 
them. I do not want to bring them in here without any positive 
knowledge of facts. 

By Mr. SWANN : 

Q. What impression did that letter make on you ?— A. Simply, as I 
said before, that it was our interest, and advisable for us to bay that 
stock. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 549 

Q. Why was it advisable ? — A. As I stated before, for several rea- 
sons. 

Q. I want to know the principal reasons. — A. One of them was that 
I did not think it was our interest, even if it was right, for us to have a 
quarrel with General Dix or his counsel. 

Q. That is approximating the answer; but still it is not the full an- 
swer. — A. It is a very delicate position to put a witness in. 

Q. I know it is a very delicate matter ; but we want to know the 
facts. We want to know whether you acted under pressure in making 
these large donations to General Dix, and whether you apprehended he 
would act in such a way abroad as to embarrass the company % — A. I 
don't believe he would have done a thing to have injured the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company — not one single thing. I think he was always 
proud, and is to-day, of his connection with the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company; and I think the rest of us will be, who are alive, when the 
smoke of this battle passes away. 

Q. Can you give us the aggregate amount that was paid General Dix, 
other than his salary ? — A. I do not know any other amounts at all, 
except that stock ; and I cannot swear that that was given to him by the 
company. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. What did you pay the trustees for signing those bonds ? — A. We 
paid Governor Morgan $1.12£, $1.25, and $1.37J. I believe those are the 
various figures for each signature. 

Q. How many bonds were issued ? — A. Twenty-seven or twenty-eight 
thousand. 

Q. Those were the first-mortgage bonds ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was he trustee of any others I — A. No, sir. The amounts we paid 
Mr. Ames, the co-trustee, I think were about half as much. 

Q. What is the usual amount paid to trustees for signing bonds % — 
A. It is a matter of agreement. 

Q. A dollar is pretty liberal for signing a man's name where he signs 
27,000 ? — A. Well, there are various prices. I only alluded to the mat- 
ter to account for our money. We were generally pretty generous, I 
think. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. I want to understand one fact oh this very point. Was there any 
other payment to those gentlemen for assuming the office and the re- 
sponsibility of trustee other than the payment for signing the bonds % — 
A. No, sir ; not to my knowledge. 

Q. So that they took upon themselves the office of trustee for prop- 
erty securing a debt, or purporting to secure a debt, of $27,000,000 % — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And the compensation which they got for undertaking that re- 
sponsibility is found in this agreement, that they should have so much 
a bond for signing them? — A. That is it. 

Q. How much did it amount to in the aggregate? — A. There were 
about $27,000,000 of securities, and the compensation would be some- 
where about $30,000. I didn't allude to it as being so much, but merely 
as a usual item of expense. 

By Mr. Slocum : 
Q. You don't understand that a trustee for bondholders has any -per- 
sonal liability, no matter what the amount may be?— A. It was their 
duty not to sign these bonds faster than a hundred miles in advance. 



550 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

He has got to look out that there is not an over-issue, and that they are 
recorded. 

Q. But when he has signed the proper quantity and given them back 
to the road, he is not responsible for their being rightfully or wrongfully 
used ! — A. So I understand. 

By Mr. Shellabaroer : 

Q. You stated awhile ago the part of the road upon which you made 
all your profits, in your judgment. Will you state the east and west 
terminal points of that part upon which you made your profits ? — A. A 
little west of Cheyenne, and continuing one hundred and fifty miles. 

Q. Where is Cheyenne? — A. Cheyenne is a little east of the eastern 
base of the Bocky Mountains. 

Q. Then that profit was made on the Oakes Ames contract of August 
16, 1867 !— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did that part upon which you made your profits include what are 
called the Black Hills ?— A. Yes ; that is it, 

Q. You state that the u lucky strike " you made upon that part of the 
contract enabled you to make all the profits that were made under the 
contract. — A. That is my opinion after very carefully estimating it and 
figuring it up. 

Q. What do you mean when you use the words " lucky strike f Do 
you mean that the road turned out more favorably than you thought it 
would when the contract was let ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, I wish to read you an extract from a report made June 16, 
1868, by J. L. Williams, Government director of the Union Pacific Bail- 
road, filed with the Secretary of the Interior, Mr. Browning. The ex- 
tract reads as follows : " First, as to location. In my report to you of 
the 23d of November, 1866, the very advantageous route of 90 feet 
maximum grade across the first range of mountains — the Black Hills — 
discovered after extensive surveys continued through three succes- 
sive seasons, was fully described. The season of 1867 was occupied in 
further preliminary surveys, more minute than ever before, between the 
Black Hills and Salt Lake under the immediate direction of General 
Dodge, chief engineer." What I want especially to direct your atten- 
tion to is that part of the statement where he says that in his report of 
1866 the very advantageous route of 90 feet maximum grade across the 
first range of mountains, the Black Hills, discovered after extensive 
surveys continued through three successive seasons, was fully described. 
So, by this report, extensive surveys had been made of the Black Hills, 
the route fully described and reported to the Interior Department as 
early as November 23, 1866. What have you to say about that route 
being unknown to you at the date of the Oakes Ames contract, and 
turning out to be lucky ? — A. I have simply to say that the engineers 
during these three years were surveying and resurveying, and while 
they may have been thoroughly posted themselves, I did not know it. 
Practical business men never pin their faith on the reports of engineers 
in business transactions to any extent. Mr. Williams took a great deal 
of interest in the reports and surveys. They came to Dr. Durant and 
he read them over carefully, and I do not think there is one single mem- 
ber of our board other than Dr. Durant and Mr. Williams who knew 
anything about the favorable condition of the road until late in the 
summer of 1867. What Mr. Williams reported to the Interior Depart- 
ment, or what Mr. Durant knew, was not generally known to the rest 
of us. Dr. Durant is a very reticent man, and all those reports of the 
engineers went to his department, and nobody ever saw them. I was 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 551 

as intimate with him as anybody, and I never saw them. I have said 
heretofore in my testimony before this committee that I thought there 
was nothing connected with the Union Pacific Railroad Company, from 
first to last, that I didn't know as much about as any living man, except 
the engineer's reports. 

Q. Is that all the information you can give the committee on that 
point ? — A. I was one of the directors and one of the contractors, and 
I did not know anything of the favorable condition of this road until I 
went out myself in the summer of 1867. I went out as far as Lincoln, 
and I theu began to realize the favorable condition of it. Other people 
may speak for themselves. 

I would like to make a statement to the committee as to the reasons 
why we asked Congress for just what we did in 1864. We did it after 
a consultation — Mr. Dillon and myself — with Mr. Lincoln. Mr. Lincoln 
said to us that his experience in the West after many years was that 
every railroad that had been undertaken there had broken down before 
it was half completed, and the original projectors had lost all their 
money. He had but one advice to give us, and that was to ask suffi- 
cient aid of Congress, so that when we commenced the undertaking of 
building that road we should be able to carry it through to completion 
and not break down and lose all we put into it. He said further that 
if we would hurry it up so that when he retired from the Presidency he 
could take a trip over it, it would be the proudest thing of his life that 
he signed the bill in aid of its construction. I have remarked myself 
that I did not think he anticipated that every year the lobby would 
levy black-mail upon the managers after the road was completed. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Do you understand that that is done ?— A. I was in Mr. Clark's 
office just one year ago 

Q. Answer the question first and we will have the explanation after- 
ward. Do you understand that every year the lobby has levied black- 
mail upon the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. In some shape 
or another. 

Q. Will you be good enough to state to the committee all the black- 
mail the managers of the road have paid, the persons to whom it has 
been paid, and the amount in each case? — A. I will state that we refused 
in toto to pay a dollar — not one dollar. Our president at the last time 
the matter was laid before him — I won't say that he swore, but he did 
say that the parties might go to hell before he would pay a dollar. 

Q. State the amount and upon whom the black-mail was levied. — A. 
In 1869 we were informed that the lobby was coming to Washington to 
induce some legislation to reduce the price of our bonds. They were 
going to ask Congress to reduce the rates, and on that our bonds and 
the Central Pacific bonds were sold right down in the market, and the 
parties who sold them down afterward found they could not get any 
black-mail, and they could not get their bonds in without paying a large 
percentage of profit. The next attempt is too prominent in its history 
to render it necessary to go over it. In 1872 the same thing was 
tried upon us. 

Q. What was the one you thought too prominent to name — the Secre- 
tary's action ?-— A. Yes, sir. The third year 1 was in the office of our 
president, and he received a telegram that immense damage would be 
done to us if we did not furnish a fund to protect ourselves, and the 
president asked me what I would recommend. I said if the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company had got to furnish a fund to protect itself at 



552 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Washington, the sooner we knew it the better. I recommended that he 
should not pay a dollar. He said that was the way he felt, and that lie 
would not pay a damned cent. This year the question came up whether 
we should employ counsel in the lobby to take care of our interests. 
We discussed it carefully and our president said that we should come 
to Congress and come to this committee, and to any other committee, 
and give every fact we knew, without counsel, and if it was necessary 
we could send our regular yearly counsel, Mr. Poppleton, and give the 
committee all the information we could, and then leave it with the commit- 
tee and to Congress to say whether the road can be protected without 
a lobby. We all came to that conclusion, and we have never used those 
means up to to-day. Mr. Clark said that he would come on here, I 
would come on here, and all of us would come on and give every faot 
we knew, and 'let Congress and the nation know them all, and trust 
Congress and the nation for our protection. That is the way I feel about 
it. There is no fact that I am not ready to give. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. You have not given all the cases of black-mail, have you f— A. I 
have not come to Congress to wash my dirty linen. 

Q. How about that $50,000 paid to Fullerton; was not that black- 
mail ? — A. Of course it was ; I ordered that paid myself. There are other 
cases of black-mail, but there is no use of discussing them here. The 
committee has had information Enough, and can come to their own con- 
clusions. We all know the origin of these controversies; you can get 
at the bottom of them and come to your own conclusion. If it were 
necessary, or of any possible use, I can name you three times when the 
Union Pacific Bailroad Company would have gone to protest and ruin 
had it not been for Mr. Ames and myself; but that is of no earthly use 
here. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. When were those three separate times ? — A. The first time was the 
spring of 1867. 

Q. When was the second time % — A. In the spring of 1869, at the time 
of the Fisk raid. Mr. Ames was here, and I telegraphed him to come on 
or we were gone up. 

Q. When was the third time? — A. In December, 1871. Although 
Oakes Ames had failed, owing to the action of the Secretary of the 
Treasury, his name then, together with others, enabled me to raise 
money to pay the interest on the first-mortgage and the bridge bonds — 
I have told you about that — and that saved the company from going to 
protest. 

Q. Now go back to 1867 ; what danger was it that Mr. Ames averted, 
and prevented the insolvency of the company % — A. If you recur to my 
testimony you will see that in the spring of 1867 we owed three and a 
half million dollars, and we were borrowing money from day to day, and 
existing only from hand to mouth. I have been out myself day after 
day during the time we were getting up the $1,250,000, and borrowed 
money after 3 o'clock in the market to keep the company's notes from 
going to protest. 

Q. Then the company was in such straitened circumstances in 1867 
as that it would have gone to bankruptcy and gone to ruin had it not 
been for the aid it received from Mr. Ames?— A. Yes, sir; and the 
parties he got to join with him at the time we placed this memorable 
Credit Mobilier stock. 

Q. What time was that in 1867 ? — A. Very early in the year. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 553 

Q. Then in 1869 another crisis came 1 — A. Yes, sir. , 

Q. What was the nature of that crisis ? — A.. That was when Judge 
Barnard took possession of our offices. Oar notes were about maturing, 
and our bonds went down so that we could not borrow fifty cents on a 
dollar. Mr. Ames was in Washington, and I telegraphed him to come 
on. He did so, and joined me in raising the money to pay the obliga- 
tions that were maturing, and saved the company from ruin. It is the 
daily boast of our enemies that they will put us in bankruptcy anyhow. 

Q. You have said that but for that interposition of Mr. Ames the de- 
struction of the company would have been so complete that those of 
you who had embarked your money in it would have lost your all that 
was in it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. So that the result of what you say is that the assets of the com- 
pany and its debts were such, in relation to each other, that had the 
company been compelled to pay its debts at that time in the way de- 
scribed, the result would have been bankruptcy — permanent bank- 
ruptcy — so that you would have lost all you put in ; is that your testi- 
mony ? — A. It will be necessary to give a separate anol distinct expla- 
nation for each one of those cases. 

Q. Still you made the remark general. I simply want to understand, 
because the question of the solvency or insolvency of this company is 
very material, and we want to know from you, as one of its officers, 
whether its affairs have been so desperate that it was saved from bank- 
ruptcy and complete and permanent destruction by this interposition. 
If you wi«h to be understood that way, that is right; if you do not, let 
us know it.— A. Well, I can't say if we hadn't ;doue what we did it 
would have gone into bankruptcy, because some other gentlemen might 
have come forward and done the same. I know that we did save it ; 
still, if we hadn't, some other gentlemen might have been able and will- 
ing to do it. 

Q. A corporation that is completely solvent and has abundant assets 
to pay its debts is not driven into permanent bankruptcy and destruc- 
tion by the simple fact of an accidental protest at a particular time % — 
A. You can judge as well as I. We owed three and a half millions in 
the spring of 1867, on securities that had no market v#lue. Had we 
done as other railroads do, and let the securities go to protest, you can 
judge of the effect as well as I. In 1869 we owed over $15,000,000; we 
had built the road through in 1868 and 1869 without making one single 
dollar, and we had accumulated this debt. Unwisely, as we see now, 
we had divided the profit of 1867, instead of keepiug it on hand, as we 
now see we ought to have done; but we supposed we were going to 
make some money on the rest of the road. We didn't make as much 
as we thought, and I do not think as much as we ought on an expendi- 
ture of $90,000,000. 

Q. I would like to have you state the amount of actual cash that was 
paid in for stock to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. Now, of 
course, I don't ask for exact dollars, but the amount as near as you can 
state it. — A. At different times, or all through f 

Q. Yes, all through, in actual cash, excluding road-building. Go 
back to the beginning and take the different subscriptions to stock, and 
tell the committee the amount of actual cajsh that was paid in for stock, 
in round numbers. — A. You may not look upon it the same way as I 
do, but I consider that there was paid in actual cash a little over 
$27,000,000. 

Q. I will shape my question, then, differently. State to the commit- 
tee the amounts in round numbers, asnear as you can, that were paid in 



554 CREDIT M0B1LIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD 

for stock subscriptions to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company in money, 
not including what was paid in road-building, and also excludiDg from 
it all payments that were made by check, and the stock divided out 
among the parties in- interest. Now exclude both classes and give the 
amount of money that was paid in for stock. — A. On the original sub- 
scription ten per cent, was paid, but those payments were made by 
check. 

Q. But they were regular checks for money, and the money on them 
was drawn and went into the treasury ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What else? — A. If I remember rightly the next payment was 
made by the Credit Mobilier, with certified checks for so much stock of 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, subscribed for by them and paid 
for by them. « 

Q. And the money paid into your treasury actually ? — A. Actually. 
I think it was a check on a bank, just the same as for all the work on the 
road. I remember that the trustees did pay over to the Credit Mobilier 
money which was paid to the Union Pacific Railroad Company to make 
their stock full-paid. 

Q. My question invites you to state the amounts arid payments into 
the treasury of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, of money, as dis- 
tinguished from those checks which were paid for road-work, and as 
distinguished from all other transactions where the money was paid in 
a check and immediately paid out again. — A. There was ten per cent, 
paid in cash on the $2,000,000 originally subscribed. That was paid 
into the treasury of the. Union Pacific Railroad Company. Afterward 
two and one-half millions, the capital stock of the Credit Mobilier, was 
paid into the Union Pacific Railroad Company in actual cash. Just how 
that got in I cannot state in detail ; but I know that it all went in. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. When the Credit] Mobilier paid for two and one-half millions on 
the capital stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, by using the 
cash which had been paid by its (the Credit Mobilier's) subscription for 
its original capital, were they not carrying out a previous contract to 
take that stock which had been made in connection with contracts to 
build the road' or a part of it ? — A. I think so. 

Q. They took at the same time an assignment of the Hoxie contract ? — 
A. Yes, sir ; about that time ; and that had bound Hoxie to build so 
much of the road at the same price, and to procure subscription of the 
stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company. That you have got in 
detail. 

Q. The original charter requires the subscription of at least ten per 
cent, of that $2,000,000 before the organization of the road shall be de- 
livered over by the Government commissioners to the company, does it 
not? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And that was subscribed and paid in cash amounting to $211,000 1 — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The remainder of this $2,000,000 was made by turning in this 
scrip which they had acquired in payment on one of their contracts for 
building the road, was it not, and not paid in cash tfee other way ? — A. 
A part of it was in that way, and a part in the other. Parties sold their 
stock to the Credit Mobilier, bought it and made it full-paid. 

Q. That transaction was a transaction which accompanied the con- 
tract to build the road. It was in some way connected with that? — A. 
Yes, sir ; so far as the Credit Mobilier was connected with it. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 555 

Q. Do you know of a single instance in which a single dollar was 
paid of the capital stock of that road, except the original $211,000, by 
man or corporation, who simply paid his money and nothing more, and 
who, as a consideration for it, received his stock and nothing morel — 
A. I do not know of any. 

Q. You do not know, with the exception of that original $211,000, 
which paid 10 per cent, on the first two millions subscribed, of a single 
dollar paid into the treasury, by a person who was to pay his money for 
his stock in full, and nothing more, and was to receive in consideration 
for it his stock and nothing more'? — A. I guess I was a little too hasty 
in answering that before. I think that various subscriptions were called 
in, up to as high as 55 per cent. I am not sure that Brigham Young did 
not pay his subscription up to par. The great whole was, however, as 
you suggest. 

Q. There may have been possibly a few individual stockholders who 
paid on small amounts up to 55 per cent. 1 — A. It would be a consider- 
able amount,, except in comparison with the whole. 

Q. Can you furnish the committee with any information which would 
enable it to report that fact exactly I — A. I do not know that I can. 

Q. Was Brigham Young one of the original subscribers ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Then the persons who you think may have paid more than 10 per 
cent, in cash, under the circumstances supposed in my question, were all 
subscribers to the original $2,000,000, so far as you can recollect ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Suppose this road had been built in the old-fashioned way, such as 
the first railroads were built in ; that somebody had come in and sub- 
scribed $20,000,000, and paid it into the treasury of the company, and 
that then the company had proceeded to make coutracts to build the 
road, and had done so under such circumstances as that the stock was 
going to be worth 110 or 120 ; suppose it had been possible to do that ; 
would it not, under the charter, have been possible for anybody else to 
come in and say, "I will now take so much stock at 100, and will get 
the benefit of the profit, and of the rise on the stock, to the disadvan- 
tage of the original subscribers, who had taken the stock and run all the 
risk V — A. Of course ; and that was one of the reasons why we would 
not ran the risk of letting others come in and take all the profits ; that 
is self-evident. If we had subscribed ten millions or twenty millions, 
and gone ahead and built the road just as cheaply as we could, and 
made it a success, and got it within ten miles of the junction with the 
Central Pacific Railroad, so that outsiders would see that there was a 
good thing to be made of it, then they would have come in and taken 
the balance of stock — enough to control the company. We could not 
have prevented it, and they would have got nine-tenths of the profits, 
without having risked a dollar, while we should have run all the risk, 
without making any profit ; that is perfectly apparent. 

Q. Then, for that reason, and for other reasons, was it or not the pur- 
pose of the gentlemen who built that road, so far as you know it, to 
obey the law? — A. That was the intention, and desire, and purpose. 

Q. But I understood you to say that if they had obeyed the law you 
did not think they could have built the road. — A. We think we did obey 
the law. ■ 

Q. I will ask you a question which I asked Mr. Alley. Do you know 
of any legal advice having been taken, by the gentlemen engaged in 
this transaction, in reference, to the question whether these contracts, 
and the taking of the stock under them, was a substantial compliance 
with the provisions of the law requiring the capital to be paid in cash 1 ? — 



556 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

A. I can answer that we were informed by the best legal talent, as we 
supposed, that we could do so ; and that we were complying with the 
terms of the law. 

Q. Have you any written information of that fact, given at the time 
of those transactions? — A. I think we have; I cannot say that we 
have. 

Q. Can you furnish to the committee the testimony of any counsel 
of eminence to the fact that, at the time of these transactions, he gave 
you any such advice f — A. It is my opinion that I can. 

Mr. Shellabarger. Speaking only for one, I should advise you to 
do so. 

The Chairman. Speaking for another, I should be very glad for you 
to do so. 

The Witness. I shall be happy to do so. 

Mr. Hoar. You, may or may not, as you please, name the counsel 
whom you have in your mind as having given you that opinion. 

The Witness. I will name several gentlemen, who, I am prepared to 
say, advised us that the course which we were taking was legal, and a 
safe course for us to adopt. I will name Tracy, Olmstead & Co., of 
New York. It is my opinion that a gentleman who is now a judge of 
the court of appeals in New York, William F. Allen, advised us also to 
that effect. I think that Judge Jerry Black also so advised us ; and 
Mr. Samuel J. Tilden. In Connecticut, I consulted a gentleman who is 
one of the most eminent lawyers there, Mr. William B. Bristol, and he, 
after considering the subject thoroughly, took stock in the enterprise. 

Adjourned. 



Washington, D. C, February 4, 1873. 

John B. Alley appeared again before the committee. 

Mr. Hoar. I understand that you desire to make some further points 
to the committee in relation to your previous testimony ? 

The Witness. I have said before that the road must have been built, 
if at all, by a contracting party with corporate powers, on account of 
that provision of the law which required that the books should be kept 
open till the road was finished or one hundred millions of stock was sub- 
scribed. The parties in interest who built this road have never had 
over fifteen million dollars in it of their own money at any time during its 
construction, including the capital paid into the Credit Mobilier, the 
purchase of securities and loans, and everything else. Now, there was 
liability for forty-seven millions at one time; yet the actual cash they 
had in of their own money would not, I think, have exceeded fifteen 
million dollars. Now, if they had subscribed and paid in fifteen million 
dollars to the capital stock directly, and had built the road as railroads 
were built fifteen or twenty years ago, (but as none that I know of are 
built now,) if successful and as profitable as it should be, commensurate 
with the risk taken and the capital employed, the stock would be worth 
at least 150, provided there was no provision that the books should be 
kept open until the road was finished or one hundred millions subscribed. 
But with that provision all could come in and get their stock at par, and 
prevent those who had taken the risk, furnished the capital, and per- 
formed this immense labor, from reaping any benefit from it more than 
those who came in at the eleventh hour. All must see and admit the 
injustice of this. Under these circumstances it was that they built it by 
contract, in which it was stipulated that stock should be received at par; 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION FACIFIC RAILROAD. 557 

and undoubtedly the contracts were given out at something more in price 
than the Union Pacific Railroad Company would otherwise have paid. 
But they were informed by very eminent counsel that it was legally 
right and proper ; and I am sure we thought there was no moral wrong 
in it — not one of us. 

With reference to the contract : it has been suggested that they were 
making a contract with themselves, and that, therefore, it would be 
illegitimate and unjust. So far as that goes, I have to say that we 
thought there was no injustice in it, as we- were informed by the best of 
counsel that it was most perfectly legal under the circumstances, con- 
taining the provision, as the contract did, that all the stockholders of 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company should give their assent to it. So 
far as I was personally concerned, my interest was relatively three times 
as large in the Union Pacific Railroad Company as it was in the Credit 
Mobilier. I was opposed to the contract, and opposed to the distribution 
of dividends, on business grounds, and not at all on the ground that it 
was any injustice to any party, particularly to the stockholders of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company. If it had been, I should be doing as 
much injustice to myself as to any one, as my interest was so much 
larger in that corporation than in the Credit Mobilier, I owned 1,100 
shares of stock in the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and only 290 in 
the Credit Mobilier ; and the capital of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company at that time was, I believe, less than six millions, while that 
of the Credit Mobilier was $3,750,000. So that if I wronged anybody 
so far as my action was coucerned, I certainly did that wrong to myself; 
but it never entered my head, as I do not believe it did any of the 
others, that they were doiug any wrong to any stockholder of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Now, it should be borne in mind, I think, that in 1867, when this con- 
tract was made, 1 had, a short time before, gone into the Credit Mo- 
bilier, and I was appointed chairman of the finance committee on behalf 
of the Union Pacific Railroad Company. At that time, the Union Pa- 
cific Railroad Company was in a very precarious condition, owing an 
immense amount of money, paying 2J per cent, a month for loans, 
pledging its bonds, which were then entirely unsalable, at 40 and 50 
cents on the dollar, and in some instances at 25 cents on the dollar, 
and requiring that the personal credit of the directors and stockholders 
and parties in interest should be used to a very great extent in putting 
the road through. 

Now, although the profits have been stated here to be some eleven or 
twelve millions on the whole road, (and nobody has put them higher,) 
I think it can be clearly shown, as I have stated before the other com- 
mittee, that the only money made upon any of the contracts really and 
substantially was made under the Oakes Ames contract, and that con- 
tract only yielded between eight and nine millions. That contract 
amounted to forty-seven million dollars, and the percentage of profits 
as you perceive, was only between 16 and 17 per cent. I think it was 
the expectation of the parties in interest, when they took that contract, 
to realize at least 25 per cent, profit, which is regarded by all railroad 
men as a moderate profit for the risks that are usnsally taken in the 
building of railroads ; and this was vastly more hazardous than any 
other road that I have had anything to do with. Of the many rail- 
roads that I have been engaged in helping to build, there has been 
none which, for the risk taken, the capital involved, and the length 
of time that it took to build the road, returned me. so little profit 
as the investment which I made in this road. I think all railroad men 



558 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

will tell you that a profit of 16 or even 20 per cent, is exceedingly 
moderate on contracts for building ordinary railroads. In 1867, while 
I was chairman of the finance committee, we made a good deal of effort 
to sell the bonds and to raise money. 1 visited several cities and called 
meetings of capitalists, and addressed them on the subject, setting forth 
the prospects of the road ; and I found very few capitalists who had 
faith enough in the successful prosecution of the undertaking to feel 
that it was safe to invest a dollar in the bonds, or even to take the 
notes of the company, with bonds as collateral, at 60 cents on the dol- 
lar, without a large commission. It was under that condition of things, 
and with that state of feeling, that this contract was given out, in which 
it was stipulated that Oakes Ames, to whom it was given, should pro- 
cure a subscription to the capital stock of the company at par, suffi- 
ciently large to put the road through. Those men who went into it 
periled their all. The idea of basing the profits on the capital stock 
of the Credit Mobilier, as many have done, and calling it 200 or 300 per 
cent., is, to my view, perfectly absurd, as the Credit Mobilier, as a cor- 
poration, had nothing whatever to do with it. 

And now a word in explanation of these profits. The profits, as I 
said before, were made under the Oakes Ames contract, and none others. 
On all the other contracts there were really losses sustained; because, 
while the profits were nominally twelve millions, (giving some profits nom- 
inally on other contracts,) you will bear in mind that the Hoxie contract 
(which was the only other one on which it is pretended that anything 
was made) was by the Credit Mobilier, and the Credit Mobilier has never 
yet received back its capital. And if you deduct the amount of that 
capital, which was absorbed in this contract, and which has never been 
paid back, and the interest on the same, you will find that the profits 
on the stock of the Credit Mobilier (and that was the only thing which 
yielded any profit) will be very much less than the par value of the 
stock, with the interest added thereto. Therefore, that explains my 
position or declaration that the profits really counted out only between 
eight and nine million dollars. I think that when you consider that 
fact, the immense risk involved, and that the profits were really on the 
contracts themselves, (and for the performance of which every stock- 
holder was liable,) all will see that the profits were exceedingly moderate, 
as compared to the profits made on other railroad enterprises— certainly 
so, as far as any that I have ever been engaged in. 

Now, with reference to my personal opposition to the contract, and to 
the dividends, and as to the reasons why I was opposed to them. 

Mr. Hoar. You say that if 15 millions had been subscribed and paid 
in in cash to the capital stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, 
that capital stock would have been, in your judgment, worth 150. Tlien, 
suppose you could, by application to Congress, or in any other way, 
have removed the difficulty, which you have stated, in obtaining sub- 
scriptions, (which is that, after the risk had been takeu, and after the 
profit, if any, had been made, new subscribers who had had no share in 
the risk and labor that resulted in the profit could come in and demand 
a share in that profit,) would not a subscription of 15, 20, or 30 millions 
of capital stock have enabled you to build the road in accordance with 
the act of Congress, and to have had a strong, solveut corporation at 
the end of the transaction ? 

The Witness. I think a subscription of 30 millions would have cer- 
tainly done it.- 

Mr. Hoar. I do not, however, understand you to" 'admit that, in the 



Credit mobilier and union pacific railroad. 559 

then condition of the public information and of the money-market, such 
a subscription could have been obtained. 

The Witness. It was utterly impossible, or even a subscription of 
live millions, because capitalists would not- subscribe money where it 
was dependent on the contingency of such an act of Congress as you 
have suggested. 

Mr. Hoar. You say that these gentlemen assumed a vast personal 
risk, which no other capitalists or contractors could have been found to 
assume at that time. Now, if, instead of taking the course they did, 
(whether legal or illegal,) they had taken the course of assuming that 
risk by a subscription of 20 millions to the capital stock of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company, would they not, in your judgment, have 
had a solvent and powerful institution, and have made more money by 
the increase of that capital stock from par to 150 than you say they 
have now made? 

The Witness. They would but for that provision of the charter ; but 
I do not thiuk that that amount of money could have been raised, for 
the feeling of the capitalists of the country at that time was very ad- 
verse to it. When Mr. Ames called on me to get me into it, he stated that 
he had just been talking with Mr. William F. Wells, and trying to get 
him into it, but could not do so; Mr. Wells expressing himself very 
strongly to Mr. Ames, and telling him that he would ruin himself, as it 
was too vast an undertaking for private capitalists to carry through. 

Mr. Hoar. In point of fact, in the light of your experienca now, 
would not a subscription of 15 or 20 or 25 millions to the capital stock 
of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and the contracting for the 
work in the ordinary course of business, (if it could have been accom- 
plished,) have resulted in profit to the subscribers, and in strength and 
solvency to the institution f 

The Witness. I have no doubt about that. 

Mr. Hoar. So that, with the single exception of the difficulty you 
have stated, growing out of the obligation to keep the books open till 
the road was completed, or till one hundred millions of stock was sub- 
scribed, the method provided for by the act of Congress itself would 
have been in fact a better method for all parties, would it not? 

The Witness. Yes, if that could have been done, and if the pro- 
vision had been so far modified as to reduce the amount. I had a con- 
versation on that point with Mr. Oliver Ames, the president of the 
company, at the time of the Oakes Ames contract. We were trying to 
suggest some means by which we could get along without this circum- 
locution, and without making a contract such as we made. It seemed 
to me to be one of those things that might be avoided, and, in discuss- 
ing the question, we felt, both of us, that we should like to build the 
road by the company itself,' and as, at that time, a considerable amount 
of the subscription had been paid in, we were very desirous to do so; 
but this one hundred million provision kept staring us in the face, and 
we could not see any way by which we could get any additional sub- 
scriptions in good faith. Nobody would subscribe. 

Mr. Hoar. Did you consider the question whether the same efforts 
that were made to obtain other legislation, such as the company desired 
to obtain from Congress, (I speak of proper efforts in presenting the 
reasons of the case to Congress in the appropriate and proper manner,) 
would have been likely to have removed that difficulty ? 

The Witness. We did. I suggested that thing in the board one day 
and we had a discussion on it, and the feeling seemed almost universal 
that it was useless to attempt to do that. 



560 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD* 

Mr. Hoar. When you speak of a profit of 16 or even 20 per cent, as 
a moderate profit, what do you mean — profit on the actual cost to the 
railroad, on the actual cost to the contractors, or on what it would have 
cost the contractors if prudently built? 

The Witness. On the actual cost of the contractors. For instance, 
on this contract of forty-seven millions, 16 or 17 per cent, would be 
about the amount which, 1 think, they realized. 

Mr. Hoar. Have you ever considered the question what that road, so 
far as it has been accepted by the Government, (and that is the whole 
length for the purpose of issuing the bonds,) could have been built for, 
if prudently built, at the ordinary rates 1 

The Witness. If it could have been prudently built, and built as 
other railroads are built, I suppose that thirty millions would have built 
the entire road and equipped it, perhaps not well as it is now, but still 
as well as it was when it was opened . It should be taken into consideration 
that the road cost, necessarily and inevitably, a great deal more — cer- 
tainly 25 per cent, more, in some things twice as much — for being built 
so rapidly. 

Mr. Hoar. This is a matter which you will be careful not to state so 
as to do injustice to any person concerned in the building of the road. 
When I ask you what it could be built for in the ordinary course of busi- 
ness, I do not mean to suppose the case of a road built in New England, 
where the transportation was all regular and could be depended upon, 
and in a country protected by law. I speak of the road built there, un- 
der the then existing circumstances of transportation, the distance of the 
labor from home, the distance from the place of supplies; and I ask you, 
then, what could the railroad have been built for there, in your judg- 
ment, if built prudently and at the ordinary rate of railroad building? 

The Witness. If you take into view those circumstances, it would 
cost more than I have stated. 

Mr. Hoar. I do not include now any addition to the cost by reason of 
the haste with which the building was pressed. Do you wish to modify, 
in any degree, your thirty- million answer, with this explanation of my 
question — what that road there, and at that time, and in that place, 
would, in your judgment, have cost, built and equipped as it was when 
the Government issued its bonds, if prudently built at the ordinary rate 
of speed f 

The Witness. Yovl mean the whole road ? 

Mr. Hoar. I mean the whole road. 

The Witness. I should say at least fifty millions for the whole road 
— 1,083 miles. Perhaps not quite so much as that, if you do not take 
into account the extra speed with which it was built ; then I should cut 
it down some from that. 

Mr. Hoar. Let us have your careful estimate. You understand the 
question. How do you wish to leave your answer ? 

The Witness. 1 think that with the ordinary speed, I could have 
built that road as was built, at the time it was accepted by the Govern- 
ment, on the 19th of May, 1869, as good as it was then, if I could have 
had the time usually taken to build railroads, for at letisfc forty-tive mil 
lions of dollars. 

Q. What was done with the bonds which the gentlemen who built 
this road received in payment — the Government bonds and the railroad 
bonds — were they as a rule sold in the market, or were they retained as 
a permanent investment, by the parties who received them ? — A. They 
were sold immediately on their receipt. I mean the Government bonds. 
I do not think the company kept them for any length of time. They 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 561 

were all sold within a few days of the time of their reception ; sold to 
strangers entirely. The other bonds, the first-mortgage bonds, were 
sold as fast as they could be sold to the public. They were taken only 
by the parties in interest, when they were compelled to take them, when 
they could not be sold in the market, and when the company must have 
money. 

Q. The fact, whether they were or were not sold as a rule at an early 
day, is a fact that I want to get at.— A. No $ they were not sold. In 
1867, at the time of this contract with Oakes Ames, there were very few 
or none sold ; they had been pledged, so far as they could be. 

Q. What I want to get at is, how soon after the contract for con- 
struction these gentlemen, who were engaged in it, got their cash. 
You say they sold the Government bonds pretty' promptly ? — A. There 
was a good deal of delay in getting these bonds, and a vast amount of. 
expenditure. 

Q. In relation to the second class of bonds, are you able to give the 
committee any information as to how long those bonds on the average 
were held by the gentlemen to whom they were distributed in dividends, 
or by the trustees I — A. A very small proportion of them were distrib- 
uted in dividends. Until we had completed over 300 miles of road 
under the Oakes Ames contract, I don't think a single bond of the first- 
mortgage bonds had been sold, or could have been sold in any consider- 
able quantity, at 50 cents on the dollar. The road was built entirely 
by the freights, and personal credit and means of those gentlemen and 
the Credit Mobilier, with the aid of the Government bonds. 

Q. And when you invested in the Credit Mobilier, you paid in, in the 
first place, a capital stock of $2,500,000 1 — A. Yes, sir ; that was paid 
in iu cash. 

Q. The second payment made on the increased capital stock of the 
Credit Mobilier, entitled the person who made it to a one thousand dollar 
first-mortgage bond for every thousand dollars of stock % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. So that the transaction amounted (except so far as it gave the 
party his rights as a stockholder in the Credit Mobilier) to finding a 
market for so many bonds at the rate which was allowed for them to the 
company ; that was the substance of that transaction $ — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were the two six per cent, dividends on the Credit Mobilier stock 
made before or after that increase of capital u ? — A. It was after. That 
increase of capital was made, I think, in April. 

Q. Why do not the cash and the bonds and the stock divided by those 
trustees, the present value of the Credit Mobilier stock, and the divi- 
dends made by the Credit Mobilier added together, and deducting the 
capital of $3,750,000, show the profits of those parties on that transac- 
tion ; was there any element except your interest account left out u ? — A. 
I think you will recollect that the treasurer and myself, the other even- 
ing, went into an accurate calculation what the whole would amount to, 
with the interest added to the capital, and then taking all the dividends 
received, together with that bond which we gave at the time and calling 
the stock at its present market value, the parties who went into the 
Credit Mobilier would not get a new dollar for an old one. I think we 
showed that pretty thoroughly. 

Q. Keeping the Credit Mobilier itself distinguished from the transac- 
tion with the trustees ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you ever advauce any money on this road daring its construe-' 
tion, except your share of the subscription stock of the Credit Mobilier? 
— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you any record of those transactions % — A. Yes, sir,- I pur- 
36 c 31 



562 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

chased large amounts of their securities to help them out, and I loaned 
them large amounts, from time to time, as all others did. I think we 
loaned them to the amount of many millions. 

Q, I am not speaking of accommodation loans that were outside of 
your relation? to the Credit Mobilier, nor of any outside dealings m 
stock, where you bought them and sold them in the market ; but did you, 
as one of the associates, make any advances of money for the purposes 
of the construction of this road, except your share of the original capital 
stock iu the Credit Mobilier?— A. I did, to a very large amount. You 
mean in the way of loans'? 

Mr. Hoar. No; I mean advances for the purpose of construction. 

The Witness. Well, you mean loans to the company and to the trus- 
tees that were necessary in order to build the road. 

Mr. Hoar. You say that you were, in the first place, a corporator in 
the Credit Mobilier which had a contract, by assignment from Hoxie, to 
construct a portion of this road ? 

The Witness. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hoar. You were afterward one of a company of associates, stock- 
holders of the Credit Mobilier, who, as partners, had a large contract by 
assignment from Oakes Aoi€s! 

The Witness. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Hoar. What I want to get at is, how much, in the execution of 
these two contracts, you did in fact advance in money for carrying out 
those contracts other than your original advances in the capital stock 
of the Credit Mobilier. 

The Witness. I advanced large sums in the way of loans and in the 
purchase of securities. 

Q. To whom ? — A. To the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. W T hy should you have to make loans to the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company in the execution of your contract to build a portion of 
the road 1 — A. Because the company needed the money, and could not 
get along without it. 

Q. W T hat did they want money for ?— A. To construct the road. 

Q. They were not constructing the road. — A. No; but they were 
owing the trustees, which was the same thing. 

Q. They paid you in two classes of bonds and in stock. You did not 
have to loan them any money to get their bonds, when they were en- 
titled to them ; and they issued their stock under the contract. Y r ou, 
therefore, did not have to make loans to the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company. — A. The Union Pacific Railroad Company was very much 
indebted, and had to pay up its debts, and it was necessary for that pur 
pose to lend money to it. That was an independent contract. So far as 
the Oakes Ames contract was concerned, I do not know that there was 
any money advanced on that particularly, only in this way, that we had 
to buy the securities. - 

Q. Just leave out the Credit Mobilier, and call it all by the names of 
Oakes Ames and John B. Alley. What I want to get at is, how much 
advances of money had to be made by those persons who built that road, 
before they got re-imbursed by payments from the company, in the exe- 
cution of the contract'!? — A. I should say several millions. 

Q. How many millions; and can you bring any accounts which show 
that fact? — A. Yes, sir; I think I can. 

Mr. Hoar. One witness has testified that in his judgment there was 
an average of about three months from the time the work was done by 
the contractors, and the cash expended in payment for it, and the time 



CREDIT MOBILLER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 563 

when it was reimbursed by the conversion into cash of the securities 
which the company paid to the contractors. 

The Witness. Well, I should think three or four months, perhaps. 

Mr. Hoar. You agree with that gentleman's statement? 

The Witness. Yes ; except that I would extend the time a little, say 
a month. I do not think that at the time this contract was made, it was 
possible to have let it to outsiders, with the obligations incurred in the 
agreement to get subscriptions to the stock, and subject to a compliance 
with all the conditions, on more favorable terms than the one that was 
obtained from Oakes Ames at that time, if the contractors were to take 
their pay in bonds and stock. 

Mr. Hoar. Can you give the committee any information as to the rea- 
sons for the extraordinary hasfe with which that road was constructed 
in the years 1867 and 1868 ? 

The Witness. The interest account was a very important item, but the 
principal reason was this : Under the provisions of the charter by Con- 
gress they were allowed to go to the eastern boundary-line of the State 
of California, which would give them all the advantages of the connec- 
tions at the western end of the road. That was done by a compromise 
with the Central Pacific Railroad Company. In 1866, very much to the 
astonishment of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, the Central Pacific 
Company, with the Kansas Pacific Company and some other roads, 
came here for additional legislation, and the country being exceedingly 
anxious that the road should be built in the shortest possible time, and 
the Central Pacific Company urging the necessity of it, and the great 
benefit that it would be to the Pacific coast, Congress was induced (as 
we thought very unjustly and against its plighted faith to us) to inter- 
fere with that provision of the charter, and to allow the two companies 
to build until they met each other. This, of course, occasioned at once 
a strong feeling of rivalry to get at those points which it was very im- 
portant to both companies should be got at, and it occasioned a dispute 
and almost a quarrel between the two companies, which resulted in 
building or grading alongside of each other quite a considerable amount 
of road, which was a great loss to both companies. Mr. Huntington, in 
the conversations that 1 had with him about it, said that it was a case of life 
and death to the Central Pacific Company, and that at any cost and at 
every sacrifice they must get to those points on account of the connec- 
tions which they would give them, and in order to prevent our road 
from coming in and cutting them out of those connections and destroy- 
ing their road. 

Q. Then it was for the sake of commanding the point of junction that 
the road was built in such haste ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Was there any reason that you know of except the saving of the 
interest and the desire to command the point of junction ! — A. I never 
heard any suggested by anybody. 

Q. So far as you know or believe, was there any other? — A. So far 
as 1 know or believe, there was no other but those reasons, and also the 
desire to comply with the general wish of the country, and of Congress, 
and everybody, to get the road through as fast as possible. 

Q. Was there no fear, so far as you are informed, on the part of per- 
sons interested in that contract for constructing the road, that they 
would be intefered with by Congress in the arrangements that they had 
made? — A. I never heard of such a thing suggested, and certainly I had 
no such fear myself. 

Mr. Shellabarger. I desire to get a little more definitely into my 
mind the provisions of this act of Congress of July, 1864, under wheik 



564 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

your road was constructed, and which you allude to in your, answers as 
rendering- it difficult to construct the road in literal compliance with its 
provisions. This act provides that the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
shall cause books to be kept open to receive subscriptions to the capital 
stock of the said company, until the entire capital stock of one hundred 
millions shall be subscribed, at the general office of the company in New 
York and at other places named. It also requires that money only shall 
be receivable for any such assessments or as equivalents for any portion 
of the capital stock subscribed. It also provides that the company shall 
make assessments on its capital stock of not less than five dollars per 
share, and at intervals not exceeding six months from and after the 
passage of the act, until the par value of all shares subscribed shall be 
fully paid. Now my first question is whether you design to be under- 
stood as saying that those requirements which I have cited were such 
that they could not practically, in the construction of the road, have 
been literally complied with. 

The Witness. They could not, with the understanding or with the con- 
struction that this committee puts on those provisions. They were 
supposed to be complied with by the officers of the company, inasmuch 
as they were advised by counsel (and inasmuch as it was the custom to 
build railroads having similar provisions in that way) that it amounted 
to a compliance both with the letter and spirit of the law. But, if the 
construction which the committee puts on these provisions is correct, 
then I say that the provisions could not have been literally complied 
with in that sense. 

Mr. Shellabarger. What is that construction of the committee to 
which you allude, and with which you say a literal compliance would 
have been impossible if the road was to be built? Give what you un- 
derstand to be the construction of the committee, which you say could 
not be complied with. 

The Witness. I understood the committee, or some members of it, to 
have said that it did not seem to them that the paying for this stock in 
a debt of the company was a literal compliance with the provisions of 
the law, or, in other words, that if anything was paid for the construc- 
tion of this road in consideration of receiving stock in part payment — 
more than would have been paid for cash down — it was a non-compli- 
ance with the provisions of the law. 

Mr. Shellabargker. Then your answer is, that if the law was so 
construed as to prohibit the taking of pay for stock of the Union Pa- 
cific Railroad Company in work done for the road at prices augmented 
by reason of the fact that pay was to be taken in work at higher rates, 
then the work could not have been done, and the road could not have 
been built. 

The Witness. Yes; the road could not have been built. In other 
words, if it had been required to make a cash-subscription previous to any 
contract being given, I am quite certain that it could not have been 
done, for the reasons which I have given — that under those circum- 
stances no money could possibly have been realized out of it; and no 
capitalists would go into an expensive and hazardous operation, involv- 
ing many millions of dollars, with the certainty that in no event could 
they make any profit, and with the risk of losing all that they put in. 

Mr. Shellabarger. Were not those two reasons the ones princi- 
pally on which you rested your statement that the construction of the 
road would have been impracticable under the interpretation which 
you say is given to the law by members of the committee: first, that 
it left open the subscription-books to all persons in the United States 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 565 

to subscribe until oue hundred millions of stock were subscribed ; and 
second, that those who came in last, after the enterprise had been made 
sure of success, would share equally in the profits with those who had 
embarked in it when it was hazardous; are those the two principal 
reasons which you say would have rendered it impracticable to make 
the road under that interpretation of the law? 

The Witness. I should say they were the strongest reasons. 

Mr. Shellabarger. The charter contains a provision that the capi- 
tal stock of the company shall not be increased beyond the actual cost 
of the road, and that provision is in the same second section that con- 
tains the provisions which I have cited, making the capital stock 
$100,000,000, and requiring books to be kept open to receive that amount 
of subscription. What I want now to ask you is whether or not the 
difficulty that you say was in the way would not have been removed, 
provided you construed the law to require you to keep the books open 
no longer than until the company had received such an amount of capital 
stock as would finish the road? 

The Witness. Not at all ; because the road might be very nearly 
finished — might be finished to such an extent that everybody would see 
just what the risk was, and how profitable it would be to the company, 
and then come in and subscribe for stock and deprive those parties who 
had built the road, and had taken all the risk and furnished all the capi- 
tal, of any profits that they would be justly entitled to for assuming 
that hazard, employing that capital, and performing that labor. 

Mr. Shellabarger. Then, in constructing the road, did the board 
of directors act upon the theory that they might close the books so as 
to prohibit an amount of subscription beyond the actual cost of the 
road, or did they not, so far as you know? 

The Witness. So far as I know, that question was not brought up in 
the board of directors. I am only expressing my individual opinion, and 
how far it governed my individual action, and the action of those with 
whom I conversed, who were connected with the road, and also of those 
who were solicited to subscribe, and who utterly refused to do so on 
that account. 

Mr. Shellabarger. What hazard would there have been incurred, 
even by the first stockholders, had they complied with the requirements 
of the charter in having all subscriptions paid in money only, and in 
having assessments made as required in the second section, so that they 
would have had all the capital stock represented by actual money, with 
the board of directors limiting the aggregate amount of capital stock 
to an amount not exceeding the actual cost of the road as provided in 
the second section? 

Witness. I did not suppose that any right construction of the law 
would limit the capital stock only until the road was finished. That 
was the view which every one took from the start. I never heard any 
other view presented. I did not suppose that any other view could 
properly be taken of it. That being so, you will see, of course, that 
there was very great hazard ; that it was a very hazardous enterprise, 
so hazardous that I expect the general belief was that it was almost an 
impossibility to build the road across the continent in that way. Very 
few people had any faith in it. whatever. 

Q. Were you ever advised, as a board of directors, during the progress 
of this work, that the law was that those who gave their money in pay- 
ment of stock at the beginning of the organization would not be entitled 
to any compensation for interest as against the stockholders who sub- 
scribed last— before these last subscribers should share equally with them 



566 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

in the dividends out of the net earnings of the road '? — A. I do not know 
that that was ever mentioned. 

Q. Would there have been any material hardship in the case stated in 
the question asked by Mr. Hoar had the board of directors or the court 
given to those stockholders who subscribed first the interest on their 
money during the time they were out of it, up to the time that the divi- 
dends began to be made out of the earnings ? — A. No ; there would be 
not only no impropriety in it, but I think there would be very great jus- 
tice in doing so. 

Q. Would not that have equalized things so as to have removed what 
you state was a-practical difficulty "? Suppose that the law be such that 
those who contributed their money early in the enterprise should, as 
against those who contributed late, be entitled to the interest on their 
money during the time that they were out of the money in excess of the 
time that the later stockholders were out of theirs, would that not have 
removed the difficulty i— A. I do not think that it would, or that it would 
have been regarded by capitalists as compensation in any way commen- 
surate with the risk taken. The interest on the money would be a very 
trifling consideration to people who make such investments, as against 
the hazard and risk of maturing an enterprise like that. 

Q. Coming now to another matter. It appears by the reports made 
to Congress in I860 that a very advantageous route, with a 90-foot 
maximum grade across the first range of mountains, the Black Hills, is 
fully described. There is other evidence tending to show that the 
character of the route which was adopted, and on which the road was 
made, was fully known, not only to the board of directors, but also to 
the Government, prior to the letting of the Cakes Ames contract. It 
also appears, from evidence in the case, that the company received 
about $27,500,000 in Government bonds for making that road. It is 
also provided in the charter that, the company should receive these 
bonds on the completion of each twenty miles. It is also provided by 
the law that the company should be authorized to issue a mortgage on 
the entire property of the road, equal in amount to the Government 
bonds loaned. It also appears that the company had the power from 
the start to make a kind of mortgage, which it did make, securing the 
land-grant bonds. Now, taking into consideration the character of that 
route as it in fact was, and as it was disclosed to be by these reports 
returned to the Secretary of the Interior, and taking into consideration 
all those assets furnished by the Government and by the first-mortgage 
bonds and the land-grant bonds, what great hazard was there even at 
the beginning in embarking in this enterprise? — A. Looking at it from 
our stand-point in the present time, it would seem as though the hazard 
was very little in comparison with what it was supposed then to be. 
Being chairman of the finance committee, I found it necessary to visit 
a good many capitalists and a good many banks, and to raise money on 
the company's securities; and I found a universal distrust of the ability 
of these men to put that road through, on account of its being supposed 
to be a very hazardous undertaking, growing out of many causes, more 
particularly the supposed difficulties of getting over the Bocky Mount- 
ains. I can only say, with reference to that report of the Government 
directors to which you have called my attention, that that is a matter 
of which I knew but little. I think that the directors and the stock- 
holders generally, even those who took the most interest in the matter, 
knew comparatively little about it. It belonged more particularly to 
Dr. Durante department; and if he was well informed of these matters, 
he concealed his information from the board and from the stockholders. 



OEBDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 567 

My impression was, and I acted on that impression, (and I am very 
confident that it was the impression of most of the other gentlemen 
associated with us,) that it would be very much more expensive to get 
over the Rocky Mountains than we found it to be. I think that the 
expense of building the last one hundred and fifty miles was very much 
more than we anticipated, and that the expense of building over the 
Rocky Mountains was very much less than we anticipated. 

Q. A gentleman who is familiar with the road, and who has had large 
experience in building railroads, described to me yesterday the charac- 
ter of this route, and I wish to ask you a question about it. He said 
that he thought there was as much as two hundred miles of it that was 
without a culvert or a bridge; that it was, taken altogether, one of the 
most favorable lines for ease of construction, aside from the matter of 
transportation of the supplies, but just taking the topography of the 
country and the character of the route itself into consideration, one of 
the easiest on the continent, and that it should not have cost, on an 
economical construction, over $10,000 a mile, excluding equipments. 
Now, my question is, whether that kind of description is accurate. If 
not, just tell the committee generally, and once for all, what the truth is 
in reference to the natural difficulties of the route, and the necessary 
cost of constructing the road, excluding the rolling-stock. — A. That 
would be too low. I have built a number of railroads, or have furnished 
money to build them in part, and I am very well advised about the 
matter. It is a pretty easy route, as a whole, until you get to what they 
call the Black Hills, then of course it is much more difficult; but it is a 
pretty level country, and the grades are light, and it was not a difficult 
road to build by any means for a good part of the way. I should say 
that the first 500 miles of that road were about as favorable as any road 
in the country of any length. It has as few culverts, as low grades, 
and was as easily built as almost any road I know of in the country of 
any length. But still it was necessarily very expensive for the reason 
I have given. The natural topography of the country renders it a very 
easy road to build for that distance, all things else being equal. 

Q. Then as to the Black Hills ; what was the character of that por- 
tion of the road ! — A. I have never been over it but once, but I was 
surprised when I did go over it to find that the topography there was 
so favorable ; but still it was, of course, necessarily very expensive. 

Q. That was the region on which you drew three times $16,000 a 
mile? — A. Yes; but although the grade is light and the road easily 
built, yet the fact of the country being a desert, independent of any 
other circumstances, would make the road exceedingly expensive. 
They had to convey water a long distance, and it was difficult to get 
men without paying very high wages, and they had to work at great 
disadvantage. 

Q. State what the construction of the road would have cost, exclud- 
ing rolling stock and equipment, if constructed with usual and proper 
economy. 

The Witness. You mean under ordinary circumstances? 

Mr. Shell abargker. Xo; I mean as it was, taking into view all of these 
circumstances except the unusual speed and haste with which it was 
done. 

A. I stated that I thought the road might have been built, if in the 
most economical manner, for 815,000 per mile, thoroughly equipped. 

Q. And the equipment would cost $7,500 per milef — A. More than 
that, I should think. The equipment must have cost $10,000 per mile. 

Q. For which the Oakes Ames contract only entitled you to $7,500 



568 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

per mile ? — A. I do not know that it was more than that when the road 
was opened, bat I should think that now it is more than that. That 
matter I never looked into much, and my opinion would not be of much 
value in reference to the details. 

Q. Then you give $45,000 a mile as the necessary cost of the road, 
including equipment ! — A. I think I could have built it for that myself, 
if I could have had the whole management and control of it, and had 
had plenty of time to build it in. A small portion of the road must have 
cost considerably more than that. I stated before the other committee 
that I thought it could have been built inside of fifty millions. 

Q. Does that remark apply to the whole line from Omaha to the west- 
ern terminus of the Union Pacific Railroad ? — A. Yes ; that is, if they 
had had plenty of time and could have done it in the most economical 
manner; but we were plundered a good deal all along the line of the 
road by everybody, who seemed to think that we were fair game. 

By Mr. Hoar: 

Q. Which fifty miles of the road do you think was the hardest to 
build; would it be along the Black Hills, and what do you think they 
have cost ? — A. No, I think beyond that. I do not know exactly. I 
should say that the hardest fifty miles may have cost more than 
$5,000,000. 

Q. Have you any knowledge on that subject ? — A. No, it is only an 
impression. I have no knowledge that would warrant me to give an 
opinion that would be of any value. I know that some of it was mon- 
strously expensive. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. In the plan which you did adopt for the construction of this road, 
state w T hat it was which obviated that difficulty by which any person 
(under the charter as construed by some) would be entitled to come in 
and subscribe for stock up to the time of the completion of the road, or 
until a hundred millions of stock was subscribed. — A. Nothing was done 
to obviate that difficulty. Of course it was the right of everybody to 
come in and subscribe for stock who chose to do so, but it would not 
have been profitable to do so. 

Q. Why? — A. Because the road was constructed by this construction 
company and stock taken in pay, and that stock could be bought for 
something less than par, and of course nobody was going to subscribe 
and pay par for sfcock when they could buy it for anything less than 
par, even if it was 95 ; and I think nobody has testified here that any- 
body regarded the stock as worth over 80 cents. 

Q. Then the thing that prevented persons from coming in and sub- 
scribing and agreeing to pay cash at par for this stock was the fact that, 
in the way the thing was managed, the stock was rendered worth less 
than par, and nobody would subscribe for it at par in money ? — A. No. 
I do not think anybody was prevented from coming in, because nobody 
would come in any way. The first subscription that was made to the 
amount of some two million dollars, on which I think some half million 
was paid in, was abandoned. The subscribers said that they would 
rather lose all they had paid in than go any further and incur the great 
risk in going on with the investment. It was not until after the experi- 
ment was tried that this construction company scheme was resorted to. 

Adjourned. 

\ 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 569 

Washington, D. C, February 5, 1873. 

T. Z. Hooyer sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Question. Where do yon reside? — Answer. At 1425 Fifth street, 
Washington City. 

Q. How long have yon resided here? — A. I was born here. I call no 
other city my home. 

Q. Do you know of any officer counected with any of the executive 
departments of the Government having ever received any Union Pacific 
Kailroad bonds ? If so, state all that you know about it. — A. The only 
officer I know, in relation to these bonds, was G. G. Cox. He was then 
an officer of the Government. Mr. Smith came to me and represented 
himself to be in direct influence with certain members of Congress. 

Q. When was that! — A. In the latter part of 1868 or '69 — my books 
will show the date — Mr. Smith came to me and wanted me to negotiate 
8500 of Union Pacific Bailroad income bonds. I negotiated the sale of 
those bonds. He came to me the next day and wanted me to sell some 
more bonds of the same kind — I think eight hundred or a thousand dol- 
lars' worth. These were negotiated, or sold. Some two or three days 
after that he came and asked me if there could be a negotiation of $30,- 

000 of Union Pacific Railroad bonds. I said I did not know; but that 

1 thought that it could be done. He then said to me that those bonds 
were in New York City in a banking-house, the name of which I do not 
know. C. C. Cox was part owner of those bonds at that time. 

Q. How do you know that ? — A. Mr. Smith stated that Dr. Cox, who 
was then Commissioner of Pensions, was part owner. A few days after 
that Mr. Cox called upon me, and asked me if I could negotiate certain 
bonds which he and Mr. Smith held. I told him I thought I could. , I 
called on Mr. H. D. Cooke, of this city, and stated to him that I had 
about $30,000 of Union Pacific income bonds, and that the owner, Mr. 
Cox, wanted to have a loan on them. Mr. Cook told me what he 
would do on the loan ; and I notified Mr. Cox of the best that I could 
do. Mr. Cox said that that was acceptable ; and he then telegraphed 
to the banking firm in New York for the bonds. The bonds arrived by 
express ; and when they came, Mr. Cox and I called upon Mr. Cooke. 
It was after 4 o'clock in the evening* Mr. Cooke saw us, and stated 
that he would have given that much for the bonds if they had been 
brought to him the day when I first mentioned the transaction ; but 
that.as the bonds had depreciated in value since then, he could not 
give the sum that had been agreed upon. Mr. Cox then borrowed a 
particular amount from Mr. Cooke on those bonds ; but not the amount 
that was originally intended to be borrowed. A few days after that, 
Mr. Cox paid me a sum of money, and stated that it it was on my com- 
mission for negotiation of the bonds. Some days after that there were 
some other bonds of the same denomination put into my hands for ne- 
gotiation, and I negotiated them. 

By Mr. HOAR : 

Q. Put into your hands by whom?— A. By C. C. Cox, and Mr. Smith ; 
they were together. 

Q. How many bonds in all did you receive from C. O. Cox? — A. I 
cannot be positive of the amount ; I think I must have received from 
him and Smith in the neighborhood of $35,000. That is the whole 
transaction. 



570 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. What description of bonds were they ! — A. They were what they 
call the Union Pacific Eailroad income-bonds. They were not what you 
call the mortgage-bonds. 

Q. Who received the money raised on the hypothecation of those 
bonds? — A. Mr. Cox received some, and Mr. Smith received some. I 
think that all the money that proceeded from my hands into the hands 
of Mr. Cox in cash was in the neighborhood of four or five thousand 
dollars. Mr. Cox stated to me that he had realized with Smith $16,500 
on some other bonds, which he had given to me, but which I had re- 
turned to him. They were bonds of the same kind. I had returned 
them to him as non-negotiable. 

Q. From whom did he realize this money f — A. He told me that he 
had realized some of it from H. D. Cooke, and some other source. 

Q. What office did Mr. C. C. Cox hold at that time ?— A. The first time 
that I had anything to do with him he was in the Interior Department. 
After he left the Interior Department he opened an office on F street, as 
a practicing physician. 

Q. Was he in the Interior Department at the time he said he realized 
this money? — A. I am not positive whether he was or not. 

Q. What is the first transaction you had with him while he was in the 
Inferior Department ? — A. The negotiation of this four or five thousand 
dollars in bonds. 

Q. Can you give the date of that first negotiation? — A. I cannot, 
without my books. I can produce the books at the next meeting. 

Q. You had better do that. How did Dr. Cox tell you that he became 
possessed of these bonds? — A. I asked either him or Smith how it was 
that they had so many income-bonds, and he said, "It is through influ- 
ence that we got possession of those bonds." 

Q. Did he say what influence? — A. He gave me to understand that it 
was for getting certain legislation through Congress that he got those 
bonds; that is the way I understood it. 

Q. State his words, or the substance of them, rather than your under- 
standing. — A. As nearly as I recollect now, the words were that what 
he was doing was lobbying in Congress, and that through those means 
he had got possession of those bonds. 

Q. Was it Smith or was it Cox that said that? — A. Mr. Smith said 
that. Mr. Cox was standing there at the time, and I may have said, 
44 Mr. Cox, you are in the same ring," or something of that kind. Cox 
said, " We all float in the same boat." I recollect that, because it is Some- 
thing that I never heard before or since. That was in Mr. Cox's office. 

Q. Was it in Mr. Cox's hearing that Smith said that the bonds iiad 
been got through influence ? — A. I suppose it was; we were all in the 
same office. 

Q. Did you ever hear Cox say w T hether he and Smith were jointly in- 
terested in the ownership of these bonds? — A. Yes, sir; Cox stated to 
me that Mr. Smith and he had joint ownership. When I receipted for 
the bonds I receipted to Cox and Smith jointly, and I considered that 
they were partners in the bonds, 

Q. How much did that receipt for? — A. When the thing was closed 
up I think it was in the neighborhood of $30,000. It was all receipted 
for at once. 

Q. Do you know whether Mr. Cox had become owner of those bonds 
before he ceased to be connected with the Interior Department ? — A. Iun- 
derstood that he was in the Interior Department at the time. I cannot 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 571 

fix the date without my books. I will fix it at the next meeting of the 
committee. 

Q. Is that all yon know about that matter ? — A. That is ail I know 
concerning Government officers, directly or indirectly. 

Q. Do you know of any money, bonds, or other thing of value, having 
been paid to any member of either House of Congress for the purpose of 
influencing legislation relating to the affairs of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company or of the Credit Mobilier of America ? — A. I do not know 
anything of my own personal knowledge in reference to money being 
paid to members of Congress. I saw none paid myself. 

Q. Have you any information to that effect? — A. I have no informa- 
tion further than this : I was shown a receipt at a certain time purport- 
ing to be signed by a member of Congress for certain shares in the 
Credit Mobilier. 

Q. What was that receipt, and who showed it to you, and who signed 
it? — A. This man Smith showed it to me. 

Q. Go on and state what the receipt was. — A. This man Smith came 
to me one morning and said that he had to have five hundred dollars. 
I got him five hundred dollars on a certain security which he put in my 
possession — a patent. He told me that he had some business with a 
member of Congress, and that he was going to get some bonds for his 
influence in legislation. I asked him who it was, and he said it was 
Kelley, of Pennsylvania. He came back in the afternoon and said that 
he had a receipt from Mr. Kelley. Further than that I do not know. 

Q. You said that you saw the receipt ! — A. I saw a receipt, but I 
cannot say positively whether Mr. Kelley's name was to it. It was in 
the name of Kelley, out whether Mr. Kelley 7 s first name was to it or not 
I do not know. 

Q. When was this ? — A. About two months previously to the nego- 
tiation of any of these income-bonds — in 1868. i 

Q. Give us the contents of that receipt, as far as you are able to do 
so. — A. I am not positive as to the amount, but I think that it was in 
the neighborhood of eight or ten thousand dollars. Smith stated to me 
that he wanted the five hundred dollars in hand to pay Kelley. In the 
afternoon he came back and showed me the paper that he took out of 
his pocket. I glanced over it and saw the amount, whatever it was. 
He stated that he wanted that amount of bonds negotiated in a few 
days. I took a memorandum of the amount, which is on my books, in 
order to see whether I could negotiate that amount of bonds ; but he 
never brought me the same amount of bonds that he said he was to 
bring. 

Q. On what were you to raise the money ? — A. On Credit Mobilier 
stock, or on Union Pacific Pailroad income-bonds. 

Q. Had Smith the stock with him ?— A. He had the stock. 

Q. Did he show it to you 3 l — A. He put it in my hands. 

Q. Did you attempt to negotiate it J ? — A. I thought that I was to 
negotiate it, but he never put it into my hands for that purpose. 

Q. Did he deliver it into your hands so that you had a hold of it and 
examined it ?— A. I had a hold of it just as I now have of this piece 
of paper. He took the stock out of his pocket, and I had it in my pos- 
session. To the best of my knowledge and belief the stock was Credit 
Mobilier stock, and the bonds were Union Pacific income-bonds. 

Q. And did you then and there deliver the papers back to him t — A.. 
I handed them back to him. 

Q. Did you do anything with a view of negotiating those securities!— - 
A. I called on one bank in this city. 



572 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Did you succeed in negotiating a loau upon them ? — A. I did not 
succeed that day. I could have got the loan, if the bonds had been in 
my possession. The Merchants' Bank here agreed to loan me money 
on those bonds. 

Q. Who is this Mr. Smith? — A. I do not know his first name. I 
always supposed that he was a lobbyist. lie was living at that time 
on Sixteenth or Seventeenth street, between I and K, with a preacher, 
who died some time ago. 

Q. What was the preacher's name? — A. I do not know. He was in 
the Interior Department at the time. He was the oldest preacher that 
we had in the city. 

Q. Was Mr. Smith connected in any way with the Government at 
that time % — A. 1 do not know for certain that he was. He told me 
that he was employed under the Secretary of the Interior. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. What is your occupation? — A. I am in charge of a mercantile 
agency in this city. 

Q. What has been your occupation for the last five years ? — A. I was 
employed under the board of health here for a while. 

Q. In what capacity? — A. Master of the District pound. Dr. Cox 
was at that time president of the board of health. Previous to that I 
was a broker and real estate agent, doing business at No. 4 Seventh 
street. 

Q. How long were you a broker? — A. Upwards of three years. 

Q. What was your occupation before that? — A. I kept a grocery till 
I went into that business ; I was in the grocery business three or four 
years. 

Q. What is the duty of pound master ? — A. To keep the animals that 
may be found running at large. 

Q. And you were appointed under Mr. Cox? — A. It was a contract, 
not an appointment; I got a contract from the board of health. 

Q. Did you have any difficulty with Mr. Cox ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Your relations with him have been friendly ? — A. Yes, sir ; I con- 
sider we are on good terms. 

Q. Have you had anv reason to have anv ill feeling or dislike toward 
Dr. Cox?— A. No, sir." 

Q. How do you feel towards Mr.. Smith % — A. I am not on very good 
terms with Mr. Smith, and have not been for some time back ; there was 
a difficulty between me and him in regard to certain commissions. 

Q. Have you ever been under any indictment or complaint for a crim- 
inal offense? — A. I have been under complaint in this city. 

Q. For what? — A. They term it office-broking. 

Q. What did they call it in the indictment? — A. I think they called 
it in that indictment obtaining money under false pretenses. 

Q. What became of that indictment ? — A. I understood that for want 
of evidence the indictments have gone over. 

Q. Were you put on your trial ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Was there more than one indictment against you? — A. All that 
came up were dismissed but one.'; I think they were non-prosed by the 
district attorney. Anyhow they did not come to trial. 

Q. How many of these charges were there against you ? — A. There 
were two at one time, and one shortly after. When I was pound-keeper 
I had some difficulties before the court; but the court dismissed them 
in every case except one. 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 573 

Q. Were these charges what are called blackmailing, in popular par- 
lance? — A. I understood it to be what you term blackmailing. 

Q. Do you know Judge Kelley ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You never had any difficulty with him, or reason to entertain ani- 
mosity or unfriendly feelings toward him % — A. No, sir. # • 

Q. Do you know his handwriting? — A. No, sir: I never saw it, to 
my knowledge. 

Q. You say that this document which Smith put into your hands pur- 
ported to be from Kelley ? — A. Yes, sir ; I said it was Kelley's receipt ,* 
I think it was in' the neighborhood of $5,000. 

Q. Did Mr. Smith state how Mr. Kelley came to give him a receipt for 
$5,000 ? — A. When he called upon me in the morning, he said he was 
going to have some legislation ; I do not know what it was. 

Q. And you had no curiosity to inquire what it was?-— A. I did in- 
quire ; he told me it was in regard to legislation, but he did not tell me 
what the legislation was about. 

Q. Did he desire some legislation in reference to these bonds? — A. No; 
he did not say that he desired legislation in reference to these bonds, 
but that it was in the interest of these bonds that the legislation was to 
be. 

Q. You mean, I suppose, that it had some relation to the road that 
issued these bonds, or to something that affected their value or va- 
lidity ? — A. I mean to be understood that these bonds had to be upheld 
in some way. That is what I took it for. 

Q. And he showed you a document ; did you read that receipt ? — A. 
I am not positive that I read the whole of it. 

Q. Did you see the handwriting and the name attached to it? — A. I 
saw the handwriting, and I saw the name, but I do not recollect seeing 
the first name. I am almost positive I saw the name of Kelley. It is 
some time ago. I took it as a receipt. 

Q. Y r ou knew that Mr. Kelley was a distinguished member of Con- 
gress at that time ? — A. I had the impression that Mr. Kelley was a man 
of great influence. 

Q. A transaction showing that he had been bribed would be likely to 
make an impression upon your mind ? — A. Under some circumstances 
it would. 

Q. Did that transaction excite your curiosity enough, when that doc- 
ument was shown to you, to induce you to read the paper? — A. I think 
I read the paper through, and I took it as a receipt, but at the present 
time I cannot swear positively to the name signed to it. 

Q. Is there anything concerning that transaction, concerning these 
bonds and stock, apparent on your books now ? — A. I guess that the 
memorandum that the bonds were to be negotiated is there. 

Q. If that transaction is there it will show the date, I suppose? — A. 
It will show the date of the original transaction. 

Q. Will you produce those books before the committee ? — A. I will 
produce the book in reference to these bonds. I cannot produce any- 
thing in reference to the receipt. 

Q. Have you ever seen certificates of stock of the Credit Mobilier at 
any other time? — A. I never saw any before or since. 

Q. Describe the appearance of those certificates. — A. The certificates 
that Smith brought to me were similar to the Union Pacific Railroad 
income-bonds. 

Q. You said that he placed in your hands certificates of stock in the 
Credit Mobilier, and these bonds. Now, be good enough to describe the 
appearance of the stock-certificates of the Credit Mobilier? — A. The 



574. CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION, PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

certificates were folded up with the income bonds, and were inclosed in 
a wrapper, on which was stated the number of bonds and stock. I did 
not open them to look at them. 1 think the wrapper stated that there 
was $5,000 in stock in the Credit Mobilier, and $5,000 of Union Pacific 
income-bonds. 

Q. Do you know, of your own knowledge, that there were any income- 
bonds or certificates of stock in that wrapper? — A. Smith drew one 
paper out and said that there was Credit Mobilier stock and Union Pa- 
cific income-bonds, and that he wanted them negotiated. 

Q. What did yon do with the document when you' had it in your 
band ? — A. This document was just as it were sealed up, like an envel- 
ope with the ends cut off, and he said it contained $10,000 in bonds and 
stock. I took the package, and then returned it to him. 

Q. How long did you keep it in your hands 1 — A. Not longer than to 
glance over the back of it, and then I handed it back to him. 

Q. You did not open the package, or see what was in it ! — A. I did 
not tear the package open. 

Q. Did you see what was in it while it was in your hand ? — A. I did 
not see the amount of anything that was in it. The package was open 
at each end. 

Q. Then you do not know, except from the indorsement of this paper 
and the statement of Mr. Smith, that there was any Credit Mobilier 
stock in it at all ? — A. I cannot swear positively that the Credit Mobilier 
stock was there, because 1 did not see it. 

Adjourned. 



Washington, D. C, February G, 1873. 

Christopher C. Cox sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Were you ever connected with the United States Govern- 
ment as an officer % — Answer. Yes, sir ; I was Commissioner of Pensions 
from August, 1868, to May or June, 1869. I resigned, I think, early in 
May. 

Q. Did you ever, while an officer of the Government, own, or have 
any interest in, any of the bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany? — A. Never. 

Q. Did you ever have any of what is commonly called the income- 
bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad Company at the time you were a 
Government officer ? — A. Never. 

Q. Did you at any time immediately before or after you were an 
officer have any of those bonds? — A. No; not immediately before or 
after. I owned in 1870, for a few days, a few of what were called, I 
think, the third mortgage or third income-bonds of the eastern division 
of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, the Kansas road. It was a mat- 
ter of purchase and sale, occupying a few days. But never, during my 
connection with the Interior Department, or with any other public office, 
have I owned or held or had any connection with any sort of bonds 
whatever. 

Q. Did you ever have an interest iu any bonds connected with that 
road or any of its branches, which you sought to negotiate with Mr. 
Cooke of this district, or his bank % — A. Yes, sir ; those are the bonds 
I refer to. That was in 1870, while I was a practicing physician in 
Washington. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. bib 

Q. Did you apply, either through a Mr. Smith or in any other way, to 
a Mr. T. Z. Hoover, of this city, to have money raised on those bonds, 
either by hypothecating them or selling them? — A. Perhaps I had bet- 
ter relate the whole transaction. I think it was some time in 1870 that 
Mr. Smith, whom I have known for many years, an intelligent, upright 
gentleman of this city, mentioned to me that he had disposed of third- 
mortgage income-bonds of the eastern division of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company through a Mr. Hoover, who was a loan-agent and 
money-broker on Seventh street, at some advance over' the price paid 
by Mr. Smith for the bonds, and that Hoover had professed his ability 
to sell any quautity of those bonds at a similar advance. Mr. Smith 
desired to know if he could introduce this Mr. Hoover to me. I had 
never heard of the man, and knew nothing about him up to that time. 
I said. I had no objection. Hoover was introduced, and said that he 
could dispose of any number of those bonds at an advance to a party 
who was buying them up for the purpose of keeping them. At that time 
those bonds were not quoted in the market at all, and had no fixed 
price. He subsequently informed me that the party to whom he alluded 
was Mr. H. D. Cooke, with whom he said he was intimately acquainted, 
and that Mr. Cooke would purchase them at a certain price. u Well," 
said 1, "you are a stranger to me ; I know nothing about you. If this is 
confirmed by the combined evidence of Mr. Smith and yourself, that 
those bonds can be sold at an advance, I am perfectly willing to make 
a negotiation through you." The report returned to me was that Mr. 
Cooke would buy them at that price. 

Q. What was that price ? — A. I have forgotten ; it was an advance 
of some dollars on *the bonds, but not a great deal. I am not certain 
that I went subsequently to Mr. Cooke's house and propounded the 
question to him, but I am under the impression that I did so, and I felt 
confirmed in Hoover's statement that the bonds would be purchased at 
such a price. I then ordered the bonds, and, on presenting them to Mr. 
Cooke, he declined to purchase, stating that he had been mistaken in 
the bonds, and that those were not the bonds he wanted. I think that 
he said the bonds he wanted were the second-mortgage bonds, or the 
income-bonds, which were already quoted at a far higher price that that 
I had asked for those bonds. Of course, I was a little surprised that he 
should make that mistake. However, the bonds were subsequently pur- 
chased, I think, at an advance of one or two dollars, not more than 
enough, I believe, to pay the expenses of the transaction, by the bank- 
ing house of Reese & Co., of Baltimore, and that ended the entire 
transaction. I had no knowledge of Mr. Hoover, whatever. Subse- 
quently he was appointed, during my official term as president of the 
board of health, pound-master, and we were very soon compelled to 
throw him out, owing to the extreme odium which attached to his name 
everywhere, and the universal pressure to have him removed. I sup- 
pose that that accounts for his animus in the present instance, so far as 
I am concerned. That is all I know of the transaction, which I looked 
upon as a perfectly legitimate and proper business transaction. I never 
referred to it again. My memory is distinct as to the facts that I have 
stated, but I do not recollect any other details. I know that the whole 
transaction ceased at that point. 

Q. What was the aggregate amount of the bonds proposed to be sold 
ro Mr. Cooke ?— A. I think about $10,000. 

Q. Were those bonds in New York at the time that the negotiation 
for their sale began here, and were they procured to be sent from New 



576 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

York"? — A. Yes; they were procured from New York through ray brother 
who is in a banking-house there. 

Q. Were they at the time the negotiation began here hypothecated in 
New York, or pledged as collaterals there? — A. Not at all. They were 
purchased on a sight-draft. 

Q. Were they purchased after you received the information as to what 
Mr. Cooke would be willing to pay for them, or did you own them at 
that time 1 ? — A. I did not own them at that time; I purchased them 
subsequently. 

Q. You purchased them for the purpose of selling them here? — A. 
Certainly. And I will state that I was so very certain that the sale 
would take place at the time that I made no provision for the draft, and 
Mr. Couke was kind enough to advance me the amount necessary to 
pay for the bonds, and to receive the bonds as collateral. It was while 
they were lying in bank that they were sold to other parties. 

Q. Did you realize from the bonds at that time in all about $16,000 
in money ?— A. I did not realize $1,600 or $500. I do not think that 
the whole profit amounted to more than one or two hundred dollars. 

Q. I do not speak of the amount of profit. If I remember Hoover's 
statement, it was that the whole amount of bonds that were ultimately 
sold lor you and Smith was about $16,000, and that Smith and you were 
represented as being jointly interested in them. You may now state 
whether that is true. Did you, yourself, or did Smith and you together, 
succeed in selling any considerable amount of bonds; and, if so, what 
amount? — A. Mr. Smith brought this information to me, and of course, 
in any sale that I might effect of the bonds it was my intention to di- 
vide the profits with him. I think that that was the understanding. 
The whole amount of bonds, so far as I can recollect, was about $10,000, 
That was the face of the bonds. I think they cost nineteen or twenty 
or twenty-one cents on the dollar, and were sold for twenty-two or twen- 
ty-three cents; that is my recollection. They were sold to bankers on 
the corner of Calvert and Baltimore streets, in Baltimore. The name 
of the firm, I think, is Reese & Co. 

Q. You say that these were third-mortgage bonds? — A. On the east- 
ern division of the Pacific Railroad, so tar as I can recollect. They 
were not quoted in the market at all. 

Q. How do you fix the date of that transaction ? — A. I fix the date of 
it from the fact that all the negotiations between this party and myself 
were in my office on P street, which I occupied after I left the Interior 
Department. 

Q. Do you know that they did not begin, and that, you did not acquire 
any interest in these bonds until after you were in the office on F street? — 
A. Yes, sir; I was iu the office at that time. And never before, to my 
knowledge, have I owned any bonds of that sort. 

Q. Had you ceased to be connected with the Interior Department 
before you went into that office? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Had you any sort of arrangement or understanding, before you 
ceased to be Commissioner of Pensions, whereby you became entitled to 
any of those bonds, or to any other property of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company T — A. Never; I never knew anything about the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. Did you ever say to Hoover, or to anybody else,. that you had ac- 
quired those bonds, or any other bonds or property, from the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company by reason of the intluence that you were able 
to exercise? — A. Never, sir; never. 

Q. Did any person connected with the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD 577 

pany in any way, either directly or indirectly, ever approach you, while 
you were an officer of the Government, for the purpose of securing your 
influence, in consideration of money or other value? — A. Never. 

Q. What did you authorize Hoover to do in reference to the negotia- 
tion of these bonds ? — A. Smith communicated with the parties whom 
he professed to have in view for purchasing — nothing else. My inter- 
views with him were exceedingly few ; I do not think that I saw him 
more than twice. 

Q. Did Hoover report to you that Mr. Cooke declined to take the 
bonds at the prices which he had first stated, owing to the fact that 
there was a decline in the price between the time he proposed to take 
them and the time the bonds were produced % — A. I have no recollection 
of anything of the sort. 

Q. Did any considerable time elapse between the time when the pro- 
position was first made to Mr. Cooke and the time when the bonds 
were ready for Mr. Cooke ? — A. No, sir ; not more than two or three 
days at furthest. 

Q. What is Mr. Smith's first name f — A. His name is E. J. Smith. 

Q. The gentleman now in the room who has reported himself as Mr. 
Smith is the same gentleman to whom you allude % — A. Yes, sir; the 
same gentleman. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Did you state to Hoover, or to anybody, in word or in substance, 
that those bonds had been procured for aiding in the passage of any 
legislation, or that they had any connection with such legislation 1 — A. 
I never made any such statement. 

Q. Did any such thing ever in fact exist ? — A. Never. I knew noth- 
ing about the road, and never used the slightest influence, directly or 
indirectly, or ever was approached about it directly or indirectly. 

Q. This transaction was a mere dealing in stocks % — A. Yes, a mere 
business transaction. 

Q. And you never concerned yourself on your own account, or as 
agent for anybody else, in any legislation that affected them in any form 
or manner ? — A. Never in my life. 

Q. So far as you know, did Mr. Smith % — A. Not to my knowledge. 

By Mr. Swann : 

Q. What attracted your attention toward those bonds when you made 
the original purchase?— A. Simply the statement of this party that 
there was a gentleman who wanted to buy them up, and would pay an 
advance on the then existing price. I purchased them with a view to 
sell them in that way. 

Q. Had you ever held any of those bonds before ? — A. Never, before 
or since. 

Q. Did you ever hold any of the bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company % — A. Never 5 this was the first and only transaction I had of 
the kind. 

Q. What did you give for those bonds ? — A. My impression is that I 
gave either 19 or 20 per cent, for them, and I sold them at probably one 
or two per cent, advance. 

Q. You bought them as a speculation 1 — A. Entirely so. 

Q. And not with a view to permanent investment ? — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. You have stated that you know this Hoover j do. you know what 
his reputation is for truth and veracity % — A. It is the worst possible 
37 c M 



578 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

reputation. I do not think there are three persons in the community 
who would indorse his character for anything that is proper and right. 
As the president of the board of health it became my duty to dismiss 
him peremptorily from a subordinate position in that department. H'e 
was at the head of the pound at one time, but on account, not only of 
his personal misconduct, but of the extreme odium that attached to 
him, aud of the pressure from all parties of the community to have him 
thrown out, I had to dismiss him. 

By Mr. Swann : 
Q. Does he still carry on the business of a broker? — A. I do not 
know; I have not seen him since that time. When he was first intro- 
duced to me he was a broker and land-agent on Seventh street, between 
E and F. He had a very genteel looking office there. I never saw him 
until Mr. Smith introduced him to me. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. How came this man to be appointed pound-master, if he bore such 
a reputation as you have described "? — A. I do not recollect. It does 
not require a man of very remarkable reputation to perform the duties 
of that office, which consist in taking up animals running at large. A 
man is generally selected who has the energy and push for the place. 

Q. Does he not also have to receive fees from poor people whose 
animals are caught straying, and would not a dishonest man in that 
position have opportunities for extortion and plunder on poor and igno- 
rant people ? — A. There are two checks — one on the part of the person 
paying the money, and one on the part of the clerk who receives it. 

Q. Who appoints the clerk % — A. The clerk is appointed by the board 
of health. 

Q. Did you have anything to do with his selection as pound-keeper"? — 
A. No, sir; not at all. I do not know how I voted in the matter. 

Q. Do you know whether you were aware of Hoover's reputation 
when he was appointed % — A. I did not know his reputation then as I 
know it now. There may have been reflections upon him, but I think 
he brought influence to bear, and that one strong inducement in his favor 
was the man's energy and go-aheadativeness. It was important to get 
a man at that time who would do the work effectively. 

By Mr. Swann : 
Q. Did he give any bond to the board % — A. I think he did. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. State whether you have any knowledge as to Hoover's sanity 1 — A. 
Not from any personal investigation of his case. I have had the charity 
to believe that he was insane. 



Washington, February 6, 1873. 
E. J. Smith sworn and examined. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Question. Were you at any time in the Interior Department ? — 
Answer. I was clerk in the geological cabinet in the Land-Office. I re- 
signed my position about eighteen months ago. 

Q. Do you know a man named T. Z. Hoover? — A. Yes. 

Q. Did you at any time have any transaction with him, or propose any 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 579 

transaction with him, in reference to the bonds of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company, in which Dr. Cox was in any way concerned ? — A. 
I did. 

Q. State that transaction. — A. It was my misfortune to meet this 
person Hoover in this way. Passing up Seventh street, I noticed his 
sign as broker and real-estate agent, and I entered his office. I had 
never seen him before that time. In a conversation I asked him if he 
could negotiate a bond, not of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, but 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, Eastern Division, now Kansas 
Pacific. He stated that he could. I then intrusted the bond in his 
hands to negotiate for me. Had I then known him I should not have 
done so without some security. He did sell this bond for me at a price 
a little above what they had been selling for. They w r ere not quoted, 
and had no market value at that time. Afterward 1 had another mis- 
fortune in introducing him to Dr. Cox. Then follows this transaction 
which Dr. Cox has stated and stated correctly. 

Q. You have heard Dr. Cox's account of that transaction'? — A. Yes ; 
and those are the facts substantially. 

Q. Where did you obtain the bonds which he negotiated for you ? — 
A. I received them from a gentleman named Cheever, on account of 
money due to me. 

Q. How many bonds did you have?— A. I cannot recollect, but the 
amount was under a thousand dollars. 

Q. You are sure you did not receive over a thousand dollars ? — A. No, 
I did not receive over a thousand dollars. 

Q. Did you ever have any transactions, directly or indirectly, with 
the Hon. Win. D. Kelley ? — A, Never. I never had the honor of meeting 
the gentleman. I did not know his name until yesterday, when I was 
invited on the floor of the House by Mr. Dunnell, of Minnesota. Mr. 
Kelley was speaking on an appropriation bill, and Mr. Dunnell told me 
w f ho he was. I only knew him by political reputation. 

Q. Did you ever state to Mr. Hoover that you had received any rail- 
road bond, or any stock of the Credit Mobilier, or anything else, from 
Mr. Kelley % — A. Never. 

Q. Did you ever state to him that you had paid, or were to pay, Mr. 
Kelley any money for anything? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did you ever exhibit to him a document, purporting to be a re- 
ceipt, or which you said purported to be a receipt, from Mr. Kelley for 
money or anything else? — A. No, sir; never in any form whatever. 

Q. Mr. Hoover has stated in substance that you exhibited to him a 
package, which you said contained a number of $1,000 income-bonds of 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, and some stock of the Credit Mo- 
bilier ; did you ever do that? — A. I exhibited to him an envelope that 
contained a few hundred dollars of these Kansas Pacific bonds. 

Q. Was that at the time he negotiated them for you? — A. It was at 
the time we commenced our negotiations, as I have stated. 

Q. Are the two transactions — the one Dr. Cox has related and the one 
you have just described — the only ones you had with Mr. Hoover ? — A. 
The only ones. He has come to me with some schemes, but I have 
always repulsed* him. 

Q. Did you ever possess any stock of the Credit Mobilier? — A. 
Never. 

Q. Did you ever say that you possessed any? — A. Never. 

Q. Did you ever represent to Hoover that you had in your hands any 
stock of the Credit Mobilier? — A. Never. 

Q. Do you know now what the reputation of that man is as a man 



580 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

of truth and veracity in the community? — A. The reputation of the 
man is, that he is a thief, a liar, and a perjurer. That is the common 
repute. 

By Mr. SwANN: 

Q. Do you know how long Mr. Hoover has been a resident of Wash- 
ington? — A. 1 cannot say, not having met him prior to this transaction. 
It was after this transaction that I learned his reputation, and then I 
cut loose from him. 

Q. What was the amount of the bonds he sold for you? — A. I think 
only one bond. The amount was under $1,000. 

Q. Was Doctor Cox jointly interested in that bond with you? — A. 
No, sir; that was my own transaction. 



Washington, D. C, February 6, 1873. 

William D. Kelley sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Hoar : 

Question. Have you ever known or seen, before to-day, Mr. E. J. 
Smith, who has just testified before the committee? — Answer. I saw him 
for the first time in my life, to my knowledge, when I entered this room. 
I did not know the person by name, and I was surprised when he 
mentioned the fact that he was Mr. Smith. Looking at him now again, 
I state that I never have, to my knowledge, seen him before. 

Q. Have you ever given to him, or to an3^ person whatever, any paper 
acknowledging the receipt of money or of auything of value, in consid- 
eration for any services in regard to legislation in Congress, other than 
your receipts to the Sergeant-at-Arms for your salary as fixed by law? — 
A. I have not; and I am happy to say, as I do under the solemnity of 
my oath, that I have never received, in way of compliment or testimo- 
nial or compensation, previous or subsequent thereto, directly or indi- 
rectly, any consideration for the course of legislation I have followed, 
either in speech or vote. 

Q. Mr. Hoover stated to the committee yesterday, that Mr. Smith ex- 
hibited to him a receipt purporting to be a receipt from you, having 
previously stated to him that he was about to pay you something in re- 
spect to some legislation, by which, as Hoover understood it, the bonds 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company were to be upheld. Mr. Smith, 
who has been on the stand, denied that he ever exhibited any such 
document to Hoover, or ever had any such document in his possession, 
or ever stated that he had, or heard of, any such document, or that any 
such transaction took place. I do not know that, after your answer to 
the previous question, it is necessary to call your attention to this 
testimony, but you may make any statement in reference to it that 
you think fit. — A. If I am the person referred to, the statement is 
without foundation, in fact or in appearance of fact. To no Mr. Smith, 
and to no other human being, have 1 ever given written or' oral 
promise or contract, implied or expressed, touching any such matter. 
I have never to my knowledge seen a bond or share of stock of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company. Mr. Henry C. Townseud, my counsel, 
having recovered some money for me in a suit, invested, by my instruc- 
tions, as much as purchased one 10 per cent, iucome-bond for me ; but 
last summer the expenses of my excursion exceeded my calculations 
and I wrote to Mr. Townsend from Laramie to sell that bond and de 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 581 

posit the proceeds to my credit in the Fidelity Safety Trust Fund Com- 
pany of Philadelphia, -where I keep a small account, and he did so. So 
that, although I was the owner of a bond, I never saw one. 

In another way I have been even more remotely, and am to-day, con- 
nected with certain Union Pacific Railroad bonds. In 1849 1 had begun 
investing my earnings and savings in building-lots, iu a triangular lot of 
ground then owned by Dr. George Hutton, and which is now Forty-first 
street in the city of Philadelphia. The plan on which it was laid out 
was in accordance with the then existing plan of that section ; but the 
municipal authorities subsequently discarded that plan and adopted a 
rectangular one, in accordance with the general plan of the city, whereby 
I and adjoining owners found ourselves, some with long lines of front 
and no depth to the lots ; some with triangles, and some with no front 
on any side. It therefore became necessary for us to try and square up. 
Some three years ago I was the- owner of two irregular pieces of ground, 
that were mainly front, on three streets, while a Mrs. Matilda Ketchum 
owned the lots that fronted on College avenue ; so that, while I had 
a large quantity of front which had no depth, she had the interior ground 
and no front. She proposed to sell to me. I tried to exchange, but my 
property was embarrassed with mortgages and judgments, and that was 
impossible, and I determined to buy, if possible, Mrs. Ketchum's prop- 
erty. To do so I should borrow money. The Fidelity Insurance Com- 
pany was willing to loan me money to the amount that I needed, be- 
tween six and seven thousand dollars, if I could give them collateral 
security. A friend of mine had at this time $11,000 of Union Pacific 
Eailroad bonds deposited with that company, or which he was ready to 
deposit with it, and I agreed to pay the company its interest and its 
charge for keeping these bonds as a safe deposit, and to pay my friend 
the same amount of interest on the money borrowed that I paid the 
Trust Company. 

These bonds were transferred to the Fidelity Insurance Company as 
collateral security for a loan to me. So that, without violating the 
usury law of my State, I am paying double interest on money, with the 
addition of the dollar a bond, or whatever it may be, for the safe-keep- 
ing of the bonds. I have never seen them. At this time having, by 
sales of property and a mortgage condensed on a single piece, got a large 
amount free, the Fidelity Insurance Company is about lending me, on a 
mortgage, $10,000 to enable me to relieve myself from the extra interest 
which its officers know me to be paying. Other than in this way I have 
never had, directly or indirectly, to my knowledge, any connection with 
the stock or bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

A word as to the character of Mr. Hoover. I never heard of the man 
till last evening, when I was advised by Judge Cartter, who occupies 
rooms in the same building with me, that he had just heard that this 
man had, in some way, involved my name in his testimony, and that he 
was a man infamous in character. While he talked to me a messenger 
came asking me to see a friend who had information, perhaps important, 
to give me. I hastened to him at once, and there I met a group of gen- 
tlemen, from some of whom I heard the story of the testimony which 
had been given. They all seemed to know this man, and, with unanimity, 
they pronounced him to be a swindler, a perjurer, and a thief. On re- 
turning to my room I found two young gentlemen who were helping me 
to send off some documents, and to whom I mentioned what I had heard. 
One of them, long a resident of Washington, responded, " Why, that 
man Hoover is one of the veriest scoundrels in the District. They made 
him pound-master, and the people of the District were so indignant at 



582 CREDIT M0BIL1EE AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

it that they tore down the pound." On inquiry of the gentleman who 
was kind enough to inform me of the testimony which involved me, as 
to how I should show this man's character, two answers were made ; one 
was, u Ask anybody about the criminal court, whether a mere lounger 
there, the tipstaff, the prosecuting attorney, or the judges.' 7 Another 
named three gentlemen, one of whom (General Mussey) has just entered, 
O. D. Barrett, A. G. Kiddle, and Judge Snell of the police court. 

Mr. Swann. A memorandum has just been handed to me by Dr. Cox, 
stating that it can be proved that Hoover's family consider him insane 
and a fit subject for the asylum. 

The Witness. I inquired whether this man was related to Jonah 
Hoover, a former resident of this city, and a man of unquestioned re- 
spectability ; the answer was that he was not, that he was of a different 
family, a very respectable family living in the District, who apologize 
for his aberrations by the assertion that he is insane ; and undoubtedly 
I believe him to be so. 

Mr. Slocum and Mr. Swann each said that the testimony on this 
subject had gone far enough, and Mr. Hoar, (the only other member 
present) expressed his entire concurrence in that opinion. 

Adjourned. 



The following testimony, down to and including that of Thomas A. 
Scott, was taken by a sub-committee (consisting of the chairman) au- 
thorized by resolution of the House to take testimony in Boston, New 
York, and Philadelphia : 

Boston, Massachusetts, February 6, 1873. 
The committee met at the office of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, Boston, at 9 o'clock a. m. Present, J. M. Wilson, chairman. 

E. H. Eollins recalled. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Can you produce the estimates of engineers that were made 
prior to the letting oftheHoxie contract 1— Answer. I cannot; I have 
caused diligent search to be made ; have made every effort in my power 
to obtain the estimates, but thus far without success. My efforts are 
being continued in the same direction. 

Q. Can you furnish the original estimates, or copies thereof, of the 
engineers, made prior to the letting of the Ames contract ? — A. I can- 
not, for the same reason before given. 

Q. Can you furnish the original estimates or copies made by the en- 
gineers prior to letting 'the Davis contract? — A. No, sir; for the same 
reason. I have made diligent search for all these, and have been unable 
to find them. We are still continuing our efforts. 

Q. About what time were the Omaha bridge bonds issued — the first 
issue % — A. The indenture under which they were issued bears date the 
1st day of November, A. D. 1870. 

Q. What disposition was made of those bonds'? If you have any 
record in regard to it, read it. — A. This is the record of the executive 
committee of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. On page 114 of the 
record I find the following resolution: "Resolved, That the treasurer is 
hereby authorized to sell to C. S. Bushnell one thousand income-bonds 
for $500,000 ; two thousand one hundred and thirty-six land-grant bonds 
at 70 per cent, of their par value and accrued interest, payable as called 
for by the company. Also, two thousand five hundred Missouri River 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 583 

bridge bonds at 80 percent, of their par value and accrued interest, one- 
third payable in four montbs from January 1, 1871, and balance as the 
company may require. In case Congress, within six months from this 
date, shall authorize, or confirm the mortgage of such bridge, the bonds 
now issued bearing 10 per cent, interest are to be returned to the com- 
pany when called for and cancelled ; and the same number of bonds, 
bearing interest at the rate of 8 per cent, per annum, shall be issued in 
their stead.' 7 This resolution was passed Jauuary 19, 1871. 

Q. Did Mr. Bushnell receive those bonds pursuant to that action of 
the board ? — A. He received a portion of them. 

Q. Did he receive all of the bridge bonds? — A. He did not. 

Q. What amount of the bridge bonds did he receive pursuant to that 
resolution? — A. Twelve hundred and twenty-five. 

Q. What was afterwards done with that first issue of Omaha bridge 
bonds ! — A. After the act of Congress of February 24, 1871, a new bond 
Avas issued, bearing 8 per cent, interest, and the old issue was withdrawn 
and canceled, and the new bond substituted therefor, pursuant to the 
resolution of January 19. 

Q. To whom were these new bonds issued, or what disposition was 
made of them ? — A. They were sold to C. S. Bushnell, in accordance 
with this resolution. 

Q. What amount of money did the Union Pacific Eailroad Company 
receive on account of these bridge bonds ? — A. They were sold at about 
80. The Union Pacific Company's books show that the company re- 
ceived $2,060,000 for them. 

Q. Of the original issue what was done with the 1,275 of which you 
have not yet spoken? — A. They were never issued by the company. 

Q. What had been done by Mr. Bushnell with the 1,225 that went into 
his hands? — A. I think they were used as collateral for money loaned 
to the company. 

Q. Loaned by whom ? — A. He arranged the loans in New York for 
the company $ the company received the money. 

Q. Do you know who furnished the money ? — A. I cannot tell who 
furnished it without a great deal of examination. 

Q. Who had possession of the 1,225 bonds at the time the new issue 
was made? — A. They were placed by Mr. Bushnell with J. Pierpont 
Morgan, one of the trustees of the new Omaha bridge bond, and a mem- 
ber of the firm of Drexeli, Morgan & Co. 

Q. When the new bonds were issued were these 1,225 of the new 
bonds placed in the same hands ? — A. They were. 

Q. By whom ? — A. By the company. 

Q. What became of the 1,275 ? — A. They were delivered to the trustees 
of the Omaha bridge bond. 

Q. Do you know what became of them after that ? — A. They were 
sent to London, and there sold. 

Q. Do you know for what price they were sold in London ? — A. I do 
not. 

Q. Will your books show auy thing on that subject? — A. Not any- 
thing. 

Q. Do you know of auy contract having been made with George W. 
Ho wan, jr., relative to transfer of the freight and passengers over the 
Omaha bridge? — A. I have heard that a contract was made with him at 
one time. 

Q. Is there anything on the records of the company showing that 
contract? — A. I think not. 

Q. Have you in this office a copy of that contract or the original? — 
A. We have not. 



584 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Who was the general superintendent of the company on the 21st 
of March, 1872 T— A. T. E. Sickles. 

Q. Where were his headquarters ? — A. At Omaha. 

Q. Do you know in what way transportation over the Omaha bridge 
is regulated, and upon what terms passengers and freight are carried 
over the bridge ? — A. The only information I can give you will be found 
in the time-schedules Nos. 1 and 9, marked 1 and 2, and attached to my 
testimony. 

Q. Look at paper marked Eollins 0., and state whether that contract 
has been reported to this office, or is it found in the records of this 
office ? — A. I have not been able to find any record of such contract, 
and there seems to be no contract of this kind on file in this office. 

Q. Do you know whether the transfer of freight and passengers over 
the bridge is now regulated by any contract between the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company, or any of its officers, and any person % — A. I do not 
know. 

Q. Are you able to state now what rates are charged for transport- 
ing freight and passengers over that bridge? — A. My impression is 
that it is 50 cents for each passenger and $10 a car for freight. That 
is my impression. I should not want to swear to its accuracy. 

Q. Is freight transferred at the bridge from one car to another % — A. 
I suppose it is in many instances. 

Q. I mean through freight 1 — A. I suppose there must be a good many 
cars that go through without any transshipment. Still I suppose a good 
deal of the freight is transshipped. 

Q. Are these rates of which you have spoken charged for the trans- 
portation of Government freight ? — A. I suppose they are. 

Q. What is done with the proceeds derived from the transportation 
of freight and passengers over this bridge; to what use is it applied"? — 
A. To the payment of interest on the bridge bonds. It goes into the 
hands of the company and the company pay interest on the bridge 
bonds. 

Q. Does it go into the general account of the company showing gross 
and net receipts u ? — A. There is a separate account kept at Omaha of 
the moneys received from the bridge. This account will show the gross 
as well as the net receipts from the bridge. 

Q. Does that enter into the earnings of the railroad company 1 — A. 
It does not. 

Q. It forms no part of the earnings, as you keep your accounts % — A. 
£To, sir ; it does not. 

Q. Then, in making up the account for Government transportation 
with the Union Pacific Railroad Company, the amounts paid for trans- 
porting freiglit across the bridge are not embraced ? — A. As we make 
up our accounts — no, sir ; they are made up separately. 

Q. How many issues of income-bonds have been made by the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company %— A. Only one — of ten millions of dollars. 

Q. Can you produce a copy of one of those income-bonds %— A. I 
can; they are printed in pamphlet with the [acts of Congress and by- 
laws of the company; published at Fairfield, Iowa. (Copy submitted 
and marked.) 

Q. When were they issued % — A. They were issued pursuant to a res- 
olution of the executive committee, adopted September 23, 1860", as fol- 
lows : 

"Resolved, That the president, or vice-president and treasurer, are 
hereby authorized to prepare and issue bonds to the amount of $10,000,- 
000, bearing interest at the rate of 10 per cent, per annum, payable at 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 585 

the option of the company, in two years from September 1, 1869, or 
within five years of said date, giving as security the obligation of the 
company to trustees for the purchasers to appropriate the net income 
of the company to the payment of interest on these bonds, after pay- 
ing the coupons on first-mortgage and land-grant bonds of the com- 
pany; and John A. Duff, Benjamin E. Bates, and William T. Glidden 
are hereby designated as trustees for the purchasers as before named, 
and all resolutions in regard to income-bonds heretofore passed are 
hereby rescinded." 

Q. What disposition was made of the income-bonds f — A. Five thou- 
sand eight hundred and seventy were delivered to trustees for con- 
tractors at CO ; 2,457 were exchanged for certificates for first-mortgage 
bonds. 

Q. With whom was that exchange made '? — A. Made with the parties 
who held those certificates. 

Q. Do you know w 7 ho they were ? — A. No, I do not. 

Q. Is there any mode of learning from the books who the parties 
were Avith whom that exchange was made ? — A. I think the facts could 
be ascertained from the books. It would require some little time to pre- 
pare a statement. 

Q. Will you have a statement of that kind prepared to accompany 
your testimony ? (Rollins 14, to be submitted.) — A. I will. One thou- 
sand were sold to C. S. Bushnell, at 50, pursuant to a resolution adopted 
January 19, 1871. One hundred were delivered to Credit Mobilier, in 
trust. Thirty were delivered to T. 0. Durant at 80. The balance re- 
mained in the hands of the company undisposed of. 

Q. Have you the checks that were referred to by Mr. Spence in his 
testimony, one for $24,500, and the other for $19,000 !— A. I have ; here 
they are. 

Q. Bead them. — A. "National Bank of Commerce of Boston, March 
9, 1871. Pay to the order of B. W. Spence $24,500. (Signed) J. M. S. 
Williams, treasurer. No. 2372." Upper left-hand corner, in figures, 
824,500. On the back was the following indorsement: "Pay E. H. 
Rollins, secretary, or order. B. W. Spence. And underneath " E. H. 
Rollins, secretary," in print, " for deposit," indorsed "Gilman, Son & Co., 
pay H. Blaisdale, cashier, or order," and stamped "Credit the National 
Bank of State of New York," then stamped again, " Through clearing- 
house to National Revere Bank of Boston," and then indorsed " H. 
Blaisdale, cashier." 

The next, " National Bank of Commerce, of Boston, March 9, 1871. 
Pay to the order of B. W. Spence, $19,000." (Signed) " Jno. M. S. Wil- 
liams, treasurer." No. 2373. In the upper left-hand corner, in figures, 
819,000. Indorsed, "Pay to E. H. Rollins, secretary, or order. B. W. 
Spence." Underneath, indorsed, " E. H. Rollins, secretary." Stamped, 
" for collection for the Grirard National Bank of Philadelphia," and then 
in pencil the initials, " T. A. S." Further indorsed, " W. G. Shellady, 
for cashier." 

Q. Are these the checks that were used by the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company at the time of the transactions that they denote? — A. 
Yes ; they are the checks, as shown by the books. 

Q. Have you examined the check-book from which these checks were 
taken; and, if so, what do you find? — A. I have; and I find on 
the stub the following memorandum : " March 9, 1871, E. H. P., secre- 
tary, G. M. Dodge, No. 2372, $24,500," in figures ; also, the following 
memorandum: "March 9, 1871, E. H. R., secretary, J. F. Wilson, No. 
2373, $19,000," in figures. "J. F. Wilson" seems to have been written 
at a different time, and there is an appearance which would indicate 



586 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

that the paper on which the name is written has been rubbed ; there is 
also a marked difference in the ink used. 

Q. Was there a check issued for $2,500 the same day, March 9, 1871 ? 
— A. There seems to have been a check issued March 9, 1871, for $2,500. 

Q. Have you that check ? — A. I have. 

Q. Will you produce it ? — A. I have it. 

Q. Eead it.— A. " National Bank of Commerce, Boston, March 9, 
1871 ; pay to the order of B. W. Spence twenty-five hundred dollars ; 
(Signed) " John M. S. Williams, treasurer, No. 2374." In the upper left- 
hand corner, $2,500 in figures; indorsed, " Pay Hon. E. H. Eoliins, or 
order. B. W. Spence." Indorsed, "E. H. Eoliins," pay J. Oarr, esq., 
cashier, or order, for collection for First National Bank, Concord, New 
Hampshire, J. J. Crippin, acting cashier. Following that, " C. H. 
Draper, acting cashier." 

Q. On what account was that check given? — A. That was given for 
money which was borrowed for Mr. Bnshnell. 

Q. Where?— A. At Washington. 

Q. From whom? — A. From Mr. Ordway. 

Q. Does that form any part of the $126,000 ?— A. All the checks and 
drafts covering the $126,000 presented to me for indorsement were, 
agreeably to the report of the special committee, indorsed by me as sec- 
retary. This check was not indorsed by me as secretary, and is evi- 
dently not included in that amount. 

Q. Was this check of $2,500 paid out of the earnings of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company? — A. It would appear from the books that 
the check was exchanged for a draft of Mr. Bnshnell's on M. Morgan 
Sons, of New York, for the same amount. 

Q. How is the balance of the $126,000 paid, as appears by the books 
of the company? — A. The balance, in addition to the two checks, one 
for $24,500 and one for $19,000, was paid by three drafts on M. Mor- 
gan Sons, of New York, as follows : One for $43,811.09 ; one for 
$18,032.46 ; one for $20,626.45. 

Q. Have those drafts come back to the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany? — A. They have not. 

Q. Mr. Spence, in his testimony, has spoken of an item of $3,000 
paid to you in 1870. Are there any entries on the books in regard to 
that sum, or any other sum, charged to legal expenses ? If so, state 
what the entry is, and on what account the money was paid. — A. An 
entry seems to have been made on the cash-book as follows : " Legal 
expenses debtor to cash for amount advanced E. H. E., June 1, by order 
of Oliver Ames, and now charged as above, by direction of E. H. E., 
$3,500." 

Q. In whose handwriting is that entry made? — A. In the handwrit- 
ing of Mr. Spence. 

Q. Was that entry made there by your direction, as stated in the 
book ? — A. From the entry, I presume that I gave the order, though I 
do not remember distinctly. 

Q. On what account was that money used? — A. It was advanced at 
the time, at the request of Mr. Ames, and allowed me for services ren- 
dered the company. I never received a dollar of money from the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company in my life for political purposes ; neither have 
I had a dollar that I did not earn by hard labor. There has been no 
money expended for political purposes, to my knowledge, since I became 
treasurer of the company, and I think I may safely say there will not 
be under the present administration of its affairs, for both political par- 
ties are ably represented in its board of directors. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 587 

Q. Why was this charged up on the books as legal expenses ? — A. I 
had rendered the company services at Washington, outside of my duties 
as secretary, for which I thought I was entitled to compensation. 

Q. What was the character of the services rendered to the company 
at Washington, and when were the services rendered'? — A. The ser- 
vices had reference to the adjustment of the accounts of the company in 
the Departments at Washington, the War Department, Interior, 
Treasury, and Post-Office; and also with reference to matters pending 
before Congress. 

Q. Was any portion of this money paid to any member of Congress or 
officer of the Government ? — A. Not any. In all my business transac- 
tions for the Union Pacific Railroad Company at Washington I have 
never asked an officer of the Government, in either of the Departments, 
a member of the Senate, or of the House of Representatives, to do for 
the company what I would not have done myself had I occupied either 
of the positions named. 

Q. Do you know of any money or thing of value being paid or given 
to any member of Congress, or officer of the Government, with a view of 
securing his influence on behalf of the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
at any time? — A. The only thing that I know is the case of Cornelius 
Wendell. 

Q. Have you any knowledge or information as to the sum of $10,000, 
or any other sum, having been paid as a retainer to any person who 
was a candidate for the Senate of the United States? — A. No, I have 
not. 

Q. Have you ever beard of anything of that kind having been done ? — 
A. No ; I do not think I have. 

Q. Do you know of any retainer of $10,000, or any other sum, having 
been paid to any member of Congress, or Senator, on account of legal 
services? — A. I do not; only in the cases named in my previous testi- 
mony. 

Q. Have you made search for the engineer's surveys that were made 
before the contracts were let? — A. I have. 

Q. Do you find any on file here ? — A. None, except such as are in 
print and on file in Washington, save one annual report of General 
Dodge, late chief engineer. 

Q. Is the Union Pacific Railroad procuring coal from the Wyoming 
Coal Company ; and, if so, for what length of time has it been procuring 
coal? — A. It is receiving coal from the Wyoming Coal Company, and 
has been, I think, since 1869. 

Q. Is there a contract in existence for the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany and the Wyoming Coal Company ? If so, if you have a copy, please 
produce it. — A. There is a copy spread upon the directors' records, under 
the date of November 19, 1869. A copy is here presented, marked 
" Rollins 4." 

Q. Has that contract been changed^since it was executed? — A. The 
contract was so far modified, as I understand, that the company 
pays the coal company $3.50 per ton for its coal. The accounts have 
been made up from the commencement of the contract to the latter 
part of the year 1872 at that rate. 

Q. Is Mr. Wardell or any other person still claiming the original con- 
tract price? — A. I am not aware that he claims the original contract 
price. 

Q. Has there been any final adjustment, on account of coal deliv- 
ered- to the company, since the contract began? — A.. Not that I am 
aware of. 



588 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Do you understand Wardell, or those interested in the Wyoming 
Coal Company, to he assenting to the rate of $3,50 per ton ? — A. I do. 

Q. In snipping coal over the road to other parties, are there any dis- 
criminations made in favor of the Wyoming Coal Company in the mat- 
ter of freights ? — A. My recollection is that there was a drawback of 
25 cents per ton ; but at a recent meeting of the directors of the Wyo- 
ming Coal Company this clause was stricken out. 

Q. Do you know whether discriminations are made in favor of that 
company, as against others, notwithstanding that clause having been 
stricken out of the agreement ?— A. I do not know what the fact is. 

Q. Do you know what rate Wardell gets from Carbon to Omaha, per 
ton ? — A. I could not give you those rates. 

Q. Have you any means of knowing whether the rate is made in favor 
of the Wyoming Coal Company 25 per cent, less than the charge to 
other shippers ? — A. I suppose that was the case up to the time of the 
modification of the contract. 

Q. When was that modification ? — A. In December last, I think. 

Q. Have you any other information as to whether these discrimina- 
tions are made ? — A. I have not. 

Q. Was this Wyoming Coal Company, during the snow- blockade, able 
to supply the Union Pacific Railroad Company with its coal, or have you 
had to make purchases elsewhere ? — A. I think they were short of coal 
and had to make purchases elsewhere. 

Q. Do you remember the quantity purchased, and where it was pur- 
chased % — A. I have not the data at hand. 

Q. Do you know where the coal was purchased they had to buy from 
outside parties ? — A. Well, no ; my impression is, from Iowa. 

Q. Do you know the prices paid for the coal purchased in Iowa ? — A. 
I do not. 

Q. Do you know whether Wardell is claiming that he should have 
the benefit of the difference between the price paid in Iowa and the 
$3.50 per ton which is being paid him under the Wyoming contract? — 
A. I have no information in regard to that. I think I may have heard 
such a suggestion made, but I do not remember. 

Q. Can you get that information for the committee ? — A. I can, and 
will. 

Q. Furnish to the committee a detailed statement of the floating debt 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company on February 1, 1873. — A. Here 
•it is. (Marked " Rollins 5.") 

Q. For what were these bills payable given ? — A. For money loaned 
the company. 

Q. For what purpose was this money loaned % — A. It has been loaned 
at various times to the company to aid other companies in constructing 
roads that would be feeders to the Union Pacific Railroad. 

Q. Was any part of it borrowed to pay interest ? — A. A large portion 
of it was borrowed for the purpose of aiding these roads, and a portion of 
it for the payment of interest. The snow-blockade of last winter seri- 
ously interfered with our receipts, and rendered this necessary. 

Q. What rate of interest is the company paying on these loans?— A. 
Seven per cent, per annum, and commission. 

Q. What commission? — A. One and a quarter per cent, for sixty 
days. 

Q. What security has the company given to the lenders ? — A. The 
loan of John Duff, vice-president, amounted to $298,724.95. He had as 
collateral security for this loan 233 income-bonds ; .2,500 shares of At- 
lantic and Pacific telegraph stock. The latter is redeemed by the pay- 
ment of the note for $25,000, due February 6, 1873. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 589 

Q. Was this payment the payment yon have referred to as having 
been made through a payment in money ? — A. In money. The amount 
due Oliver Ames, $427,419.67, for which he holds 139 income-bonds', 20 
Douglass County bonds, and two notes of Brigham Young for $50,000, 
secured by bonds of the Colorado Central Eailroad Company, at about 
60 cents on the dollar. The company owed Sidney Dillon $130,000, for 
which he has in his possession 24 first-mortgage bonds of this company. 
For the loans by directors not above specified, collaterals are in the 
hands of Mr. Clark, the president, pursuant to the following resolution 
of September 20, 1872 : 

Executive committee resolution. 

" Resolved, That all the stock, bonds, and other securities, now in 
possession of the company, and all that may hereafter come into the 
possession of the company, together with all bonds, stocks, and other 
securities which may be received from the Utah Central Eailroad Com- 
pany, Utah Southern Eailroad Company, Utah Northern Eailroad Com- 
pany, and Colorado Central Eailroad Company, for the investments of 
this company in those enterprises, be placed by the treasurer in the 
hands of Mr. Horace F. Clark, trustee, as collateral security for loans 
made to the companv by various parties, amounting to six hundred and 
fifty thousand dollars, ($650,000.) 

" Adopted September 20, 1872." 

Q. What collaterals have been placed in the hands of Mr. Clark, pur- 
suant to that resolution? — A. Two hundred and twenty thousand dol- 
lars, Utah Southern Eailroad bonds; 3,000 shares of Utah Central Eail- 
road stock. Those are the only securities that have been absolutely 
placed in his charge. Other securities of the company, referred to in 
the resolution, are held by the treasurer for Mr. Clark, under this 
resolution. 

Q. What other securities are held by the treasurer in that way now ? 
— A. All the securities of the company are held as collateral, and I will 
furnish a list. 

Q. When you say that seven per cent, interest is paid on these bonds, 
do you mean seven per cent, per annum % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Can you furnish a statement of loans made by directors to the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company, from time to time, and the rate of 
interest that has been paid thereon % — A. I will furnish a statement. 
The rate of interest has varied from time to time, according to the con- 
dition of the money market, from 7 per cent, per annum to 14J. 
(Rollins 5.) 

Q. Has it been the custom of the company to pay these commissions 
on loans ? — A. At times it has. It has not always been the custom. 
Sometimes the loans have been made by the directors, when the money 
market was easy, at 7 per cent. At other times a commission has been 
charged in addition. 

Q. Has there ever been a higher rate of commission than 1J per cent, 
for sixty days % — A. Not since I have been treasurer of the company. 

Q. Do the books show that higher rates of commission have been paid 
than that prior to the time that you became treasurer % — A. During the 
Fisk raid I presume higher rates were paid. 

Q. Do you know what rates were paid at that time 1 — A. I do not. 



590 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. ♦ 

The following are copies of exhibits referred to in the testimony of 
E. H. Eollins : 

[Copy of telegram.] 

Omaha, Nebraska, February 7, 1873. 
E. H. Eollins, Treasurer, Union Pacific Railroad : 

Purchased coal last winter as follows : Eight thousand six hundred 
and eighty-nine tons, from Union Coal Company, price $2.50, at 
Ottumwa, Iowa; six hundred and eighty-eight tons, Boulder Valley 
Coal Company, price $3.50, at Erie, Colorado ; six hundred and fifteen 
tons, Northwestern Coal Company, price $2.75, at Marigina, Iowa ; four 
hundred and three tons, E. P. Snow, price $3, at Eock Springs, Wyom- 
ing; Port Scott Coal Company, fourteen hundred and forty-three tons, 
at $2.37J, at Port Scott, Kansas; Central Mining Company, six hundred 
and ninety-seven tons, at $2, eleven hundred and fourteen tons, at $2.25, 
and forty-eight tons, at $2.75, at Saint Joseph, Missouri; also seven 
hundred and forty-one tons from other parties, at from $2 to $8.25, prices 
varying on account of points of delivery. Wardell says there is no 
claim made by Wyoming Coal Company for this coal. Since December, 
Wyoming Coal Company is charged the same freight-rates as are made 
to other parties, and no rebate or drawback has been promised or allowed. 

Eates between Omaha and Council Bluffs, over Missouri Eiver bridge 
and approaches, distance nearly three miles, fifty cents for passengers, 
and five cents per hundred for freight. 

T. E. SICKLES, 
General Superintendent. 



Corrected statement. 

First-mortgage "bonds $27, 213, 000 00 

Loss on same 3,494,991 23 



23,718, 



Land-grant bonds $10,400,000 00 

Loss on same t . . 4, 336, 007 9b' 

6, 063, 992 04 

Government bonds $27, 236, 512 00 

Loss on same 91, 348 72 

27, 145, 163 28 

Income-bonds - $9,355,000 00 

Loss on same 2, 818, 400 00 

6,536,600 00 



Agreement made this 21st day of March, A. D. 1872, between the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company, of the first part, and George W. Homan^ jr., 
of Omaha, of the second part, tvitnesseth as follows, viz : 

The said party of the first part hereby agrees to furnish to said party 
of the second part all the rolling-stock necessary for the transfer of pas- 
sengers and freight across the Missouri Eiver bridge at Omaha, from the 
depot of the said party of the first part, in Omaha, to the eastern end of 
its said bridge in Iowa, and to maintain such rolling-stock in good order 
and repair, and also to furnish coal, oil, and waste, sufficient for the use 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 591 

of said rolling-stock. Said party of the first part shall fix the fares and 
charges and may modify and change the same at its discretion. Said 
party of the second part hereby agrees to transfer, by means of such 
rolling-stock, over said Missouri River bridge, between the places above 
named, all passengers and freights destined east or west across said 
river; to receive all freights, west-bouud, that may be tendered to him, 
and to pay promptly all charges which may be due on the same. 

Said party of the second part also agrees to employ all engineers, 
conductors, firemen, brakemen, checkmen, laborers, and other employes 
that may be necessary for the proper, safe, prompt, and satisfactory 
transaction of said transfer business ; run the trains across said bridge, 
and transact all business in connection with said transfer, at such times, 
and under such regulations, as the superintendent of said party of the 
first part may direct, and to his entire satisfaction. 

Said party of the second part agrees to build a freight-platform, eight 
hundred (800) feet long, at east end of said bridge, at a point to be des- 
ignated by the superintendent of said company, the cost thereof to be 
deducted from the. first receipts from said transfer business due and 
payable to said party of the first part. In consideration of the stipula- 
tions and agreements hereinbefore mentioned by the party of the first 
part to be performed, the said party of the second part, in addition to 
the stipulations contained on his part to be performed, hereby agrees to 
pay over at such intervals and times as the said superintendent may 
require, seventy-five (75) per cent, of all receipts from such transfer of 
freights and passengers, for the use of said bridge and approaches, and 
for hire of said rolling-stock to be furnished as hereinbefore agreed. 
This agreement may be terminated by the party of the first part at i^s 
discretion, by giving the said party of the second part ten (10) days 
notice of its election to so terminate it. 

Witness the siguature of the general superintendent of said Union 
Pacific Railroad Company, and the said George W. Homan, jr., hereto 
affixed, this 21st day of March, A. D. 1872, at Omaha, 

T. E. SICKLES, 
General Superintendent Union Pacific Railroad. 
GEO. W. HOMAN, Jr. 

Witness : 

F. E. Lawrence. 
Chas. S. Stebbins. 



[Rollins 4.] 
Contract, Union Pacific Railroad with C. 0. Godfrey ani Thomas Wardell. 

This agreement, made this sixteeuth day of July, in the year of our 
Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-eight, between the Union 
Pacific Railway, by its proper officers, of the first part, and Cyrus O. 
Godfrey, and Thomas Wardell, of the State of Missouri, or assigns, as 
party of the second part, witnesseth : 

That the said party of the first part agrees that the party of the second 
part may prospect at their own expense for coal on the whole line of 
the Union Pacific Railway, its extensions and branches, and open and 
operate any mines discovered, at their own expense. 

That said railroad company agrees to purchase of said party of the second 
part all clean merchantable coal mined along the line of its road needed 
for engines, depots, shops, and other purposes of the company, and to 
pay for the same, for the first two years, at the rate of six dollars per 



592 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

ton j for the next three years, at five dollars per ton ; for the four years 
thereafter, at four dollars per ton ; and for the six years remaining, at 
the rate of three dollars per ton, delivered upon the cars at the mines 
of said party of the second part, and which shall not be less than ten 
per cent, added to the cost of the same to the said party of the second 
part. This contract to be and remain in full force for the full term of 
fifteen years from the date hereof. 

That the said railroad company agrees to facilitate the operations of 
said party of the second part, in prospecting and otherwise, by means 
of such information as it may possess, and by furnishing free passes on 
its road to the agents of the party of the second part not exceeding six 
in number. 

The said railroad company further agrees to put in switches and the 
necessary side-tracks at such points as may be mutually agreed upon, 
for the accommodation of the business of the said party of the second 
part. 

That the said party of the second part agrees to make all necessary 
exertions to increase the demand and consumption of coal by outside 
parties along the line of said railroad, and to open and operate mines 
at such points where coal may be discovered as may be desired by said 
railroad company, and to spend within the first five years from the 
date of this agreement, in the purchase and development of mines and 
mining-lands and in improvements for the opening, successful and eco- 
nomical working of the same, not less than the sum of twenty thousand 
dollars ; also to furnish for the use of said railroad company good 
merchantable coal, and to pay all expenses for improvements for loading 
coal into cars. Any improvements desired by said railroad company in 
regard to the coal to be used by it shall be at the cost of said railroad 
company. 

In consideration of their exertions to increase the demand for coal 
and the large sum to be expended in improvements, it is further agreed 
that the party of the second part shall have the right to transport over 
the said railroad and its branches, for the next fifteen years from the 
date of this agreement, coal for general consumption at the same freight 
that will be charged to others; but the said party of the second part 
'shall be entitled (in consideration of services rendered as herein pro- 
vided) to a drawback of twenty-five per cent, on all sums charged for 
transportation of coal. 

The said railroad company agrees to furnish the party of the second 
part such cars as they may require in the operation of their business, 
and to transport them as promptly as possible. This agreement to 
remain in force for fifteen years. 

The coal-lands owned by said party of the first part are hereby leased 
for the full term of fifteen years to the said party of the second part, 
or their assigns, for the purpose of working the same as may seem to 
them profitable ; said party of the second part to pay, for the first nine 
years, a royalty of twenty five cents per ton for each ton of coal taken 
from their lands, excepting always coal taken from entries, air-courses 
or passage-ways, for which coal no royalty shall be paid ; payment for 
the same being due and payable monthly. The royalty for the last six 
years of this lease shall be free, provided the price of coal to the railway 
is reduced to three dollars per ton; if three dollars and twenty-five 
cents per ton, or more, then in that case the royalty shall be as during 
the first nine years. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 593 

In witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands and seals the day 
and vear above mentioned. 

CYKUS O. GODFREY. 

THOMAS WAEDELL. 
Sealed and delivered in the presence of 

Hannibal, Missouri, April 1, 1SG9. 

For and in consideration of the sum of one dollar, and other valuable 
considerations, the receipt of which we do hereby acknowledge, we this 
day transfer, assign, and set over to the Wyoming Coal and Mining 
Company (a company formed for the purpose of mining coal and other 
minerals on the line of the Union Pacific Railway) and its assigns, all 
our right, title, and interest in and to the within contract, together with 
all its privileges, obligations, and liabilities ; and when accepted by them 
our connection and liabilities, as individuals, shall cease. 

CYRUS O. GODFREY. 
THOMAS WARDELL. 
State of Missouri, County of Marion, ss : 

Personally appeared before the undersigned, a notary public within 
and for the county and State aforesaid, Cyrus O. Godfrey and Thomas 
Wardell, whose names are attached to the foregoing instrument as hav- 
ing executed the same, and who are personally known to me to be the 
identical persons who signed the same, and they severally acknowledge 
their signatures thereto to be their free act and deed for the purposes 
therein set forth and expressed. 

In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my nota- 
rial seal, at my office in the city of Hannibal, this 1st day of April, 1869. 

[seal.] D. K. WARD, 

Notary Public. 



[Rollins 5.] 

Detailed statement Mils payable January 31, 1873. 



Issued. 


To whom issued. 


Time. 


Due. 


Amount. 


ltf 
Dec. 


L 
14 

2. 
' 1 

1 

1 
1 

1 
I 
1 

1 
11 
30 
30 
30 
30 

3 


Demand notes. 
John Duff 




$19, 873 00 

25, 000 00 
25 000 00 


1>" 

Oct 


Xotes due December, 1872. 
John Duff 


60 days 


3 
3 
3 
3 
3 
3 

3 




do 




do 


....do 


25, 000 00 
25, 000 00 
25, 000 00 
25, 000 00 
25, 000 00 
18,'849 95 




do 


do 




do 


do 




do 


do .. 




do 


....do 




do 


do 










193, 849 95 




Memorandum. — The above demand note and the 
notes past due in December, held by John Duff, vice- 
president, have never been presented for payment. 

Xotes due in February, 1873. 


4 months 

do 


4 

14 

1 

i 


Oct. 


$10, 000 CO 
15, 086 00 




do 


Nov. 


G.M.Pullman 


CO days 


25,000 00 




do 


25, 000 00 
20,000 00 




do 


...do 




• Oakes Ames 


....do 


] 0,000 00 


Dec. 


do 


....do 


25. 000 00 



38 cm 



"594 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Detailed statement, §c— Continued. 



Issued. 


To whom issued. 


Time. 


Dae. 


Amount 


187-2. 
Dec. 2 






3 
1 
1 
3 
4 
1 

b 

4 
1 
3 
4 
3 
4 
4 
4 
4 
6 
5 
6 
25 
28 
8 
20 


$25, 000 00 
10,000 00 


jSTov. 30 


do 


do 


30 




do .. 


25 000 00 


Dec. 2 


do 


....do 


25, 000 00 


3 


do 1 


do .. 


20, 000 00 
25,000 00 


K"ot. 30 




....do 


Dec. 2 




....do 


25 000 00 


3 


do 


...do . 


20 000 00 


;Noy. 20 




....do 


25 000 00 


Dec. 2 


do 


...do 


25 000 (9 


3 


do 


...do 


20 000 00 


o 


L. P. Morton 


...do 


25 000 00 


3 


do 


....do 


25, 000 00 
£0, COO 00 
25, 000 00 
25,000 00 


3 


do 


...do 


3 


F. (x. Dexter 


....do 


3 




...do 


5 


do 


....do 


25, 000 00 


4 




..do 


20, 000 00 
25, 000 00 
10, 000 CO 

5, 000 00 

6, 722 44 


5 


John Duff 


....do 


24 




..do 


27 


do 


do ... 








19 




....do 


5, 010 46 












591, 782 90 




Notes due in March, 1873. 


4 months 


4 

7 

19 

19 

19 

3 

7 

13 

13 
14 
26 




Xov. 1 


$20, 000 00 


4 


do 


30, 000 0<i 
26, 000 Of) 
20, 000 00 


16 


do _ 


..do 


16 


do 




16 


do 


.do 


26, 000 00 
25, 000 00 


30 


L. P. Morton 


90 days 

60 days 


Dec. 4 




3, 375 37 


Jan. 9 




2, 638 36 










153, 013 73 






55 days 

56 days 

55 days 






£40, 000 


17 




40, 000 
40, 000 


30 


do 




Total 






120, 000 




Notes due in April, 1873. 


do 


6 

2 

6 

6 

7 

25 

25 

25 

30 

30 

30 

30 

30 

30 

6 




Dec 3 


$25, 000 00 


Xov. 30 


do 


25,000 00 


Dec 3 


do 




5,000 00 


3 




....do 


25,000 00 


4 


do 




25, 000 00 


25 


do 


do 


10, 000 00 
10,000 00 


25 


do 


...do 


25 


do 


do 


10,000 CO 


27 






10, COO 00 


27 


do 


. ..do . 


10, 000 CO 
10, 000 00 
10, COO CO 


27 






27 


do 


do .. 


27 


do 


.do" . 


10, 000 00 
10, 000 00 


27 


do 


....do 


3 


P. Gordon Dexter 


....do 


30,000 00 












225, 000 00 




Notes due in May, 1873. 


4 months 

do 


3 
3 
3 
3 
10 
15 
3 
3 
3 
3 

! 1 


31 


$20, 000 00 


31 


do 


20, 000 00 


31 


do 


...do .. 


10, 000 00 
10, 000 00 
5, 000 00 


31 


....do 


...do 


Jan. 7 


do 


...do .. 


12 


do 


...do 


10,000 00 
20, 000 CO 
20, 000 00 
20, 000 00 
20, 000 00 


Dec. 31 




. do 


31 


...do. 


-do 


31 


do 


...do . 


31 


Horace P. Clark 


....do 


31 


do 


....do .. 


30, 000 06 


31 


do 


l....do 


i 20, 000 00 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 595 

Detailed statement, $r. — Continued. 



Issued. 



1572. 
Dec 31 
31 
31 
31 
31 
31 
1373. 
Jar.. 14 
14 
14 
1872. 
•Jan. 31 
31 
1873. 
•Jan. 10 



1575 

-Jan. 



RECAPITULATION. 



Demand note 

Xotes clue in December, 1872 
Xotes dne in February, 1873 
Xotes due in March, 1873 ... 

Xotes due in April, 1873 

Xotes due in May, 1873 

Xotes due in Jul'v, 1873 



To whom issued. 


Time. 


Due. 


Amount. 




4 months 

do 


3 
3 
3 
3 
3 


#20, 000 00 

20, 000 08 

. 20, 000 00 

20, 000 00 

9ft nnn no 


......do 


...do 


...do .. 


John Duff . . 


..do . 


do .. 


...do 




do .. 


3 20, 000 00 

17 | 20, 000 CO 
17 20, 000 00 
17 




do .. 


do .. 


...do . 


do 


:...do :*::::::: 




....do 


3 
3 

13 


CO, 000 00 
GO, 000 oo 


C. S. Buslmcll . 


do 


Elisha Atkins .• 

Total due in May, 1873 


....do 


25, 000 00 






520, 000 00 


Notes due in July, 1873. 


G months 


1 
1 
1 

1 




20 000 00 


do 


20; 000 00 
20, 000 00 
10, 419 67 


do .- 


...do .. 


do 


....do 


Total due in Julv, 1873 




70, 419 67 









$19, 875 C8 
J 93. 849 9f. 
591, 732 90 
153, 013 7;; 
225, 080 00 
520, 000 00 
70, 419 67 



Total 1, 773, 891 23 

And sterling loan £120, 00 3 



Memorandum showing the liability of the company to each of the following-named persons, 
the aggregate amount appearing in the u bills payable" account. 

John Duff $298, 724 95 

Oliver Ames 427, 4 1 9 67 

George M. Pullman 130, 000 00 

Oakes Ames 130, 000 00 

Horace F. Clark 130, 000 00 

Augustus Schell 130,000 00 

James H. Banker 70, 000 00 

L. P.Morton ., 155' 000 00 

P. Gordon Dexter 55, 000 00 

Sidney Dillon 130,000 00 

Elisha Atkins „ 40, 000 00 

C. S. Bnshnell 60,000 00 

Drafts of the operating department accepted 17, 746 63 



1,773,891 2f 



Bostox. January 31. 1873. 



Collateral for foregoing. 



John Duff, 233 income bonds; 2,500 shares Atlantic and Pacific Telegraph Company's 
stock. 

Oliver Ames. 139 income bonds; 20 Douglas County bonds ; 2 notes Brigham Youn«- 
$•25,000 each. 

Sidney Dillon, 24 first-mortgage bonds. Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Horace F. Clark, for self and other directors, 220 Utah Southern Railroad bonds ; 
3.000 shares Utah Central Railroad stock. 



596 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Statement of assets, Union Pacific Bailroad Company, February 1, 1873. 

Bills receivable .$70,948 

Colorado Central Railroad Company, materials and cask $782, 421 07 

Colorado Central Railroad Company, leased property 35, 387 54 

Colorado Central Railroad Company, 110 bonds , 78, 500 00 

Colorado Central Railroad Company, 2,100 shares stock, at $25. 52, 500 00 

948,808 61 

Utah Central Railroad Company, 3,000 shares stock, at $50 150, 000 00 

Utah Northern Railroad Company, charges on freight 43, 345 So 

Utah Southern Railroad Company, 520 bonds, at $80 $176, 000 00 

Utah Southern Railroad Company, materials . •. - ^ . . 213, 298 61 

, 389, 29i 61 

Atlantic and Pacific Telegraph Company, 24,208 shares stock 242, 080 00 

Omaha City bonds, 25, at $500 12,500 00 

Washington County bonds, 90, at $100 ; 6, at $1,000 15, 000 00 

Douglas County bonds, 200 bonds 200, 000 00 

Saint Louis, Chillicothe and Omaha Railroad Association, 60 shares stock, 

at $50 • 3,000 0O 

Brunswick, Chillicothe and Omaha Railroad Association, materials, &c 30, 077 05 

Central Pacific Railroad Company, interest account 37, 170 71 

John Duff, trustee for land-grant bonds 62, 123 2: 3 v 

First-mortgage bonds Union Pacific Railroad, owned by the 

Company $24, 000 00 

Omaha bridge bonds, 5 bonds, owned by the company 5, 161 35 

Union Pacific Railroad stock, 155 shares, owned by the com- 
pany 8,244 13 

37,405 48 

Total 2,241,757 20 

Boston, Massachusetts, February 10, 1873. 



[Rollins 7.] 
1869. 

At tlie annual meeting of the stockholders of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company, held in Boston, May 25, 1869, the following-named gen- 
tlemen were elected as directors of said company : Oliver Ames, B. E, 
Bates, Sidney Dillon, John Duff, C. H. McCormick, William S. Glidden. 
O. S. Bushnell, F. Gordon Dexter, Rowland G. Hazard, Elisha Atkins ? 
Charles A. Lambard, Ezra H. Baker, Frederick Nickerson, Oliver S'. 
Chapman, John R. Duff. . 

The Government directors, at this time, were Hiram Price, D. Harris,, 
Benjamin F. Wade, James F.Wilson, and John W. Burson. 

Resignation of directors. 

May 27, 1869.— John R. Duff resigned ; G. M. Dodge elected to fill, 
vacancy. 

August 18, 18C9. — E. H. Baker resigned j. James Brooks elected to fill 
vacancy. 

November 19, 1869.— John B. Alley elected to fill place of B. E. Bates, 
who never acted. 

Officers for 1869. — President, Oliver Ames; vice-president, John Duff :. 
secretary, E. H. Rollins; treasurer, J. M. S.Williams. 

1870. 

At the annual meeting of the stockholders of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company, h ?ld in Boston, March 9, 1870, the following gentlemen 



CKEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 597 

were elected directors of said company for the ensuing* year : Oliver 
Ames, Oakes Ames, John Duff, John B. Alley, 0. H. McCormick, W. 
T. Glidden, E. Hazard, Elisha Atkins, C. A. Lambard, O. S. Chapman, 
James Brooks, G. M. Dodge, Sidney Dillon, Frederick Mckerson, C. S. 
Bushnell. 

Government directors. — D. L. Harris, John W. Burson, James F. Wil- 
son, Hiram Price, Benjamin F. Wade, J. S. C. Harrison. The latter- 
named gentleman succeeded J. W. Burson, January 23, 1871. 

Officers. — President, Oliver Ames ; vice-president, John Duff; secre- 
tary, E. H. Rollins; treasurer, J. M. S. Williams. 

1871. 

At the annual meeting of the stockholders of the Union Pacific Bail- 
road Company the following-named gentlemen were elected directors of 
said road for the ensuing year : Thomas A. Scott, Oliver Ames, John 
Duff, Elisha Atkins, Oakes Ames, L. P. Morton, Boyal E. Bobbins, 
James Brooks, G. M. Dodge, Sidney Dillon, C. S. Bushnell, J. E. Thomp- 
son, Andrew Carnegie, G. M. Pullman, F. G. Dexter. 

Government directors. — J. S. C. Harrison, James F. Wilson, Benjamin 
F. Wade, D. S. Ruddock, Hiram Price. » 

Officers. — President, Thomas Scott ; vice-president, John Duff; secre- 
tary, E. H. Rollins : treasurer, J. M. S. Williams. 

Resignations, &c. 

March 9, 1871. — F. Gordon Dexter resigned, aud William Dennison 
was elected to fill the vacancy. 

September 6, 1871. — Hon. William Dennison resigned, and F. Gordon 
Dexter was elected to fill the vacancy. 

1872. 

Directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company elected at the an- 
nual meeting of the stockholders of the company held in Boston, March 
6, 1872 : Horace F. Clark, Augustus Schell, James H. Banker, Oliver 
Ames, John Duff, Elisha Atkins, Oakes Ames, L. P. Morton, G. M. 
Dodge, Sidney Dillon, C. S. Bushnell, G. M. Pullman, F. Gordon Dexter, 
E. H. Baker, N. A. Baldwin. 

Government directors. — James F. Wilson, Jos. H. Millard, D. S. Rud- 
dock, J. S. C. Harrison, Hiram Price. 

Officers. — President, Horace F. Clark; vice-president, John Duff; 
secretary and treasurer, E. H. Rollins. 

Resignations, d'C. 

March 6, 1872. — Messrs. Baker and Baldwin, resigned ; Royal E. Rob- 
bins and James Brooks were elected to fill the vacancies. 



[Rollins 8.J 

1863. 

At a meeting of the stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, held in New York, October 29, 1863, the following gentlemen were 
elected as directors of said railroad for the ensuing year : George 



698 CREDIT MOBILIEli AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Opdyke, Jolin A. Dix, T. C. Durant, E. W. Dunham, Pickering Clark, 
E. I. H. Gibson, J. I. D. Lanier, A. G. Jerome, Abiel A. Low, George 
T. M. Davis, August Belmont, L. C. Clark, Charles Tattle, EL V. Poor, 
George Griswold, New York City, New York ; J. Y. L. Pruyn, Albany, 
New York ; E. H. Eosekrans, Glens Falls, New York ; William B. Ogdeo, 
J. F. Tracy, Chicago, Illinois ; Nathaniel Thayer, C. A. Lambard, Bos- 
ton, Massachusetts; Cornelius S. Bushnell, New Haven, Connecticut; 
Joseph H. Scran ton, Scranton, Pennsylvania; J. Edgar Thompson, 
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Ebenezer Cook, John E. Henry, Daven- 
port, Iowa ; H. S. McComb, Wilmington, Delaware ; Augustus Kountze, 
Omaha, Nebraska; John J. Blair, Belvidere, New Jersey; S. C. 
Pomeroy, Atchison, Kansas. 

Officers elected in 1863 prior to general election. — President, William B. 
Ogden ; secretary, H. Y. Poor ; treasurer, T. W. Olcott. 

Officers elected October 30, 1863. — President, General J. A. Dix ; vice- 
president, T. C. Durant; secretary, H. Y. Poor; treasurer, J. J. Cisco. 

1864. 

At a meeting of the stockholders of the Union Pacific Bailroad Com- 
pany, held in New York, October 5, 1864, the following-named gentle- 
men were electecf as directors of the company for the ensuing year ; 
George Opdyke, John A. Dix, Thomas C. Durant, C. S. Bushnell, Brig- 
ham Young, George T. M. Davis, J. F. Tracy, E. Cook, J. J. Cisco, E. 
H. Eosekrans, H. S. McComb, Pickering Clark, Charles Tuttle, C. A. 
Lambard, and John E. Henry. 

Officers elected for 1864. — President, J. A. Dix; vice-president, T. C. 
Durant; secretary, Charles Tuttle; treasurer, John J. Cisco. 

1865. 

At the annual meeting of the stockholders of the Union Pacific Bail- 
road Company, held in New Y'ork, October, 1864, the following-named 
gentlemen were elected as directors of the company for the ensuing year : 
George Opdyke, J. J. Cisco, John A. Dix,E. H. Eosekrans, T. C. Durant, 
H. S. McComb, C. S. Bushnell, Pickering Clark, Brigham Young, 
Charles Tuttle, C. H. McCormick, 0. A. Lambard, J. F. Tracy, John E. 
Henry, and E. Cook. 

Officers elected for 1865. — President, Governor J. A. Dix; vice-presi- 
dent, Thomas C. Durant; secretary, Charles Tuttle; treasurer, J. J. 
Cisco. 

1868. 

At the annual meeting of the stockholders of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company, held in New York, October 3, 1866, the following-named 
gentlemen were elected as directors of the company for the ensuing year ; 
John A. Dix, Thomas C. Durant, C. 8. Bushnell, Chas. Tuttle, John J. 
Cisco, H. S. McComb, C. A. Lambard, Oliver Ames, C. H. McCormick, 
John Duff, Josiah Bard well, Sidney Dillon, Win. H. Macy, John F. 
Tracy, Ebenezer Cook. 

Officers for 1866. — President, General J. A. Dix ; vice-president, Thos. 
C. Durant ; secretary, Charles Tuttle ; treasurer and assistant-treasurer, 
J. J. Cisco. 

1867. 

The undersigned gentlemen were elected to act as directors of the 
Union Pacific Kailroad Company from October 4, 1867, until the next 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



599 



Q. 



annual meeting' of stockholders of the company : T. C. Dnraut, John B. 
Alley, C. S. Bushnell, T. G. Glidden, J. J. Cisco, Oliver Ames, John 
Daft", Josiah Bard well, F. G. Dexter, Sidney Dillon, Win. H. Macy, John 
P. Tracy, Ebenezer Cook, Ben. E. Bates, H. C. McComb. 

Officers, October, 1867, to March, 1868. — President pro tern., Oliver 
Ames ; vice-president, T. C. Durant ; secretary, Chas. Tuttle ; treasurer/ 
J. J. Cisco. 

1868. 

At a meeting' of the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany, held in Sew York, March 11, 1868, the following gentlemen were 
elected as directors of the company, viz: Thomas C. Durant, Oliver 
Ames, H. S. McComb, John J. Cisco, C. A. Lambard, Sidney Dillon, 
John P. Tracy, Benjamin E. Bates, John Duff, C. S. Bushnell, Wm. H. 
Macy, F. Gordon Dexter, John B. Alley, H. C. Crane, Josiah Bard well. 

Officers for 1868. — President, Oliver Ames ; vice-president, Thos. C. 
Durant ; treasurer, John J. Cisco ; assistant-treasurer, Chas. Tuttle ; 
secretary, H. B. Hammond. 



[Rollins 9.] 

Copy of list of stockholders used at the annual election of officers of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company, held in New York, October 29, 1863. 



Names of parties. 



1 

IN 

IB S3 

m © 

■SJ? 

11 

p © 
JZ5 M 


Amount paid iuto 
the treasury of 
company. 


20 


$2, 000 


20 


2,000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2,000 


20 
10 


2,000 
1,000 


50 


5, 000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2,000 


10 


1,000 


10 


1,000 


20 
20 


2,000 
2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


10 

20 


1,000 

2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2,000 


20 


2, 000 


50 


5, 000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2,000 


5 


500 


50 


5, 000 


20 


2, 000 


10 


1,000 


20 


2,000 



Andrews, S . . 
Ahem, S. J.. 
Ashley, O. D 
Blood"; PL... 



Basford, H.W.... 

Belmont, Aug- 

Bushnell, C.S 

Broadhead,E.C... 
Bonner. G. T. & Co. 
Butler, E 



Bartholemevr, Geo. M. 

Boody,H.H 

Barney, D.~N 

Blatchford, R. M 

Butterneld, John 

Blair, John I 

c&ss,g:w 

Clark, Edward 

Clark. Dodge & Co . . . 
Cook.E 



Curtis, X. B 

Cisco, John J 

Cheny, A. N 

Crane, J. S 

Crane, H.C 

Cooper & Hevrett 
Chittenden, S. B.. 
Corning:, Erastus. 



600 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Copy of list of stockholders, &c. — Continued. 



Names of parties. 




Campbell, Allen 

Carver, B. F 

Dix, John A 

Duncan, Sherman & Co 
Dehon, Clark & Bridges 

Dunham, E.W 

Davis, G.T.M 

Dunham, James L 

Durant, W. T 

Durant, Thomas C 

Dows, D 

Durant W. W 

Dodge, Win. E 

De Rouge & Dyett 

Gibson, E. T. H 

Grinnell, M. H 

Gibson, CD 

Gray, S. M 

Griswold, George 

Gould, Charles 

Gardner, Ransom 

Hartson, G. B 

Harriman & Jerome 

Hodges, G. W 

Henry, J. E 

Hushford, O. P 

Harren, F 

Holliday, Ben 

Jerome, A. G 

Jerome, L. W 

Jones, David 

Kowalski, C 

Ketchum, Morris 

Kountze, Augustus ..'.-. 

Lambard, H. I 

Low, A. A 

Lambard, C. A 

McComb, H. S 

Merriam & Bell 

McCready, F. H. 

McAndrews & Wann . . . 

Maxwell, John D. 

McPherson, Wm. M. 

McCormick, John 

Megrath, James G 

Nye,E 

Ogden, Wm.B 

Opdyke, George 

Pratt, G.W 

Price, J. M 

Pruyn, J. V. L 

Poor, Henry V 

Pomeroy, S. C 

Quintard, G. M 

Rosekrans, E. H 

Ramsford, G. S 

Richards, L. S 



5 
10 

20 
20 
20 
20 
50 
20 
20 
50 
10 
20 
20 
20 
50 
10 
10 
10 
20 
20 

5 
20 
20 
20 
50 

1 
10 
20 
20 
20 
20 
20 
20 

5 
20 
20 
20 
10 
20 
20 
20 
10 

5 

1 

1 
10 
20 
20 
20 
20 
20 
10 

5 
20 
20 
10 
20 



CREDIT MOBILIEK AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. . 601 
Copy of list of stockholders, &c. — Continued. 



Names of parties. 







3 « >< 



Richards, T. P 

Richmond, Dean 

Russell, C. H 

Rickley, John 

Roberts, M. O 

Scott, Thomas A 

Scranton, J. H 

Stebbins, H. J. & Sons. 

SmitHj Samuel 13 

Smith, Piatt 

Sloan, Samuel 

Smith, Francis 

Smith, George R 

Swasy, Wm. J 

Tuttle, Charles 

Thompson, J. E 

Tuttle, J. T 

Train, Geo. F 

Tracy, J. F 

Trims, W.R 

Train, Willie D 

Tilden, Wm 

Thayer, Nathaniel 

Tiffany & Co 

Tilden, S.J 

Taylor, Moses 

Thompson, G. A 

Van Schaick &. Massett 
Winslow, Lanier & Co. . 

Wright, J. B. 

Williams & Guiou 

Watkinson, Robert 

Williams, John M. S. . . . 

Weed, Thurlow 

Williams, N. S 

Winston, F. S 

Young, Briffham 



o 

1 

1 

1 

20 

30 

20 

20 

20 

20 

20 

10 

20 

10 

20 

20 

5 

20 

20 

20 

5 

10 

20 

10 

•20 

5 

5 



$2, 000 

2, 000 

2, 000 

100 

2,000 

2,000 

5, 000 

2, 000 

2, 000 

500 

500 

100 

100 

100 

2, 000 

3, 000 
2,000 
2, 000 
2,000 
2,000 
2, 000 
1,000 
2,000 
1,000 
2, 000 
2,000 

500 
2, 000 
2,000 
2,000 

500 
1.000 
2,000 
1,000 
2,000 

500 

500 



[EOLLINS 10.] 

List of stockholders Union Pacific Railroad Company, and number of 
shares standing in their respective names at the closing of transfer boohs, 
February 24, 1872. 



Adams, Cyrus 

Alley, John B 

Ames, Oliver 

Ames, Oakes 

Ames, Oakes, trustee 
Ames, Oliver & Sons 

Ames, Fred. L 

Ames, Oakes A 

Ames, Mrs. R. C 

Ames, Mrs. C. H 



30 


19 


513 


21 


31,883 


23 


4,661 


28 


30 


30 


2, 140 


32 


85 


34 


136 


34 


30 




20 


35 



Andrews, Elisha Y 


145 


Atkins, Elisha 


4,084 


Armstrong, Mrs. Emily D . 


87 


Broom, E. P. L 


5,000 


Brandon, Edward 


14, 900 


Baldwin & Weeks 


800 


Blake, Geo. Baty, jr 


4, 500 


Blake, Geo. Baty, jr., as 


4,000 


collateral. 




Baker, Ezra H 


5, 850 



G02 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

List of stockholders Union Pacific Railroad Company, &c. — Continued. 



36 

36 
37 

38 
40 
42 
43 
44 
47 
49 
49 
49 

r,i 
51 

52 
59 
62 
63 
64 
65 
67 
70 
70 
71 
72 
76 
78 
81 
82 
82 
85 
86 
88 
91 
92 
94 
95 
95 
97 
98 
99 
102 
102 
102 
104 
104 
108 

in 

112 
115 
116 
117 
117 
120 
121 
122 
123 
124 
124 
125 
130 
130 
131 
132 
139 
142 



Baker, Ezra H., j r 

Bangs, A. W 

Bates, B. E., Treas. of trus- 
tees. 

Barstow, Rogers L 

Black, Geo. W 

Bates & Brown 

Bradford & Stanton 

Bangs, Coffin & Co 

Bend, Wm. B 

Briggs, H. O 

Briggs, Edwin 

Bliss, E.G. W 

Briggs, Lloyd 

Bristol, Win. B 

Baldwin, I. D 

Boissevain Bros 

Brooks, James 

Brewster, Sweet & Co 

Boocock, Sam'l 

Boyd, Vincent & Co 

Bloodgood, John & Co ... 

Bullard, Lewis H 

Bush, Richard D., trustee . 

Butler, Peter 

Bushnell, C. S 

Berlin & Hymaus 

Banker, James H 

j Baldwin & Kimball 

I Benedict, Flower & Co.. - 

I Baylis, A. B. & Co 

i Brown, Geo. & Sam'l &c Co. 

Becker & Fuld 

Bunge, Wm. & Co 

Chapman, Oliver S 

ChaA r lick, Oliver 

Carpenter & Richards 

Chase & Higginson 

Clark, Wm. Adolphus 

Chase, Geo'. H 

Champ, James 

Carnegie, Andrew 

Capron, R. J. & Co 

Clark, ^noch 

Clark, A. P 

Carter, Timothy J 

Clark, James N 

Credit Mobilier of America 

Clark, Horace F 

Cisco, John J. & Sons 

Colby, Walter 

Coolidge, John T 

Codman, Chas. R 

Crosbv, Geo. L 

Cobb,F. D. & Co 

Cooke, Jay & Co 

Campbell & Richmond.. . 

Cooper & Graff * 

Crosbv, Helen 

Crosby, E. C 

Crook, Richard L 

Colgate, Edward 

Coddington, Jefferson 

Closon & Hays 

Cahen, Joseph 

Cutting, R. L., jr. & Co .. 

Chaplin, Ernest : 



297 

12 

1,141 

15 

2 

2,410 

100 

54 

1,300 

60 

80 

6 

100 

100 

100 

440 

490 

200 

300 

100 

1,400 

10 

21 

7 

711 

200 

100 

750 

100 

700 

50 

220 

150 

1,497 

309 

100 

1,720 

15 

20 

600 

100 

7,300 

30 

75 

100 

20 

1,890 

200 

205 

10 

980 

104 

13 

50 

ioo 

1,200 

100 

4 

11 

200 

100 

300 

6, 400 

1,780 

1,900 

2, 000 



146 
146 
153 
154 
156 
158 
163 
163 
164 
165 
166 
170 
174 
174 

185 

186 
187 
187 
187 
187 
192 
195 
197 
199 
199 
202 
204 
206 
214 
214 
224 
227 
229 
236 
237 
237 
237 
237 
238 
239 
240 
244 

244 

I 252 

i 259 

i 261 

i 262 

! 262 

j 263 

I 265 

268 

269 

270 

270 

270 

270 

271 

271 

272 

273 

274 

275 

276 

279 

280 



Davis, Wm. H 

Daniels, David H 

Drexel, Morgan & Co 

DeVon, F. R 

Dillon, Sidney 

Dillon, Mrs. Hannah 

Dodge, G. M 

Dorrance, E. B 

Dotger, A.J , 

Duff, John ...„ 

Duff, John R 

Durant, Thos. C 

Durant, T. F 

Duncan, Sherman & Co., 
in trust. 

Eno, John C 

Elex & Brockerman 

Everett. J. Mason 

Evans, T. B 

Evans, Wharton & Co 

E well, Wood & Co 

Fahr, Charles 

Francis, Chas. B , 



& 



;;* i 



Fanshan & Milliken 
Fessenden, Sewell H 
Fessenden, Geo. L . . . 

Fish, James, jr 

Fellows, James W .. 

Fellows &Co 

Ford, N. & Sons 

Foster, Pierpont B . . 

Gray, H. W 

Gray, H. W. &Co... 

Gardner, Chas. P 

Gilbert, Horatio J . . . 

Gilmore, Wm 

Gilmore, Alson 

Gilmore, Edwin 

Gilmore, Mary E 

Gilmore, E. W 

Glidden, Wm.T .... 

Glidden, John A 

Glendenning, Davis 
Amory. 

Grimes, James W 

Grinnell, Geo. B. & Co... 

Gordan, Wm. A 

Gourlay, Amanda G 

Hawley, W. N 

Harding, A. C 

Ham Brothers 

Hazard , Rowland G 

Hazard, Roland 

Hazard, Isaac P 

Hazard, Mary P . . , 

Hazard, Elizabeth 

Hazard, Elizabeth, trustee 

Hazard, Anna 

Hazard, Sarah L 

Haven , Franklin 

Hawley, T. & Co 

Hale, Win, L 

Hatch, Rufus 

Hatch, Walter T. & Son. . 
Hartshorne, J. M. & Bro. 
Haven, Franklin, trustee. 
Hatch & Footc 



40 

200 

1O0 

6,197 

5,240 

4,700 

5 

100 

16, 000 

62 

4 

200 

200 

100 

830 

100 

20 

700 

100 

300 

100 

50 

40 

34 

6 

3, 300 

2,000 

45 

167 

3, 201 

200 

146 

117 

10 

30 

10 

10 

o 

108 

5 

400 



42, 



?00 

25 

25 

90 

10 

408 

125 

250 

152 

10 

l;; 

' 28 
100 
48G 

225 
100 
100 
900 
100 
900 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



603 



List of stockholders Union Pacific Railroad Company, &c. — Continued. 

» 



Haight, G. L.&.L 

Heath, Win. &Co: 

j Hinkley, John K 

Herdelback, Frank & Co. 

Hobart, Aaron, jr 

Horner, Anna 

Howard, Mary L 

Hotcbkiss, Natk'l S 



Hodges, F. S 

Hough, Cbas. T., trustee. . 

Horton, H. L. & Co 

Hooper, Sain'l & Co 

Hoyt,L. T 

Hughes, G. H 

Hutchinson & DeumiiGk . 

Huunewell, Hollis 

Hunnewell, Francis W 

Hunnewell, Walter 

Hunnewell, Arthur 

Jackson, John P 

Johnston, James B 

Jones, David 

Jones, Maria L 

Jordan, N. W 

Jones, R. H 

Jacobson, J. M 

Johnston, Bros. & Co 

Kimball, D., guardian 

Kissam & Co 

Kennedy, Geo. W 

Knickerbacker, Thos. A . . 

Knickerbacker & Co 

Kimber, Arthur 

Kountze Bros 

Kidd, T. A 

Lawrie, Andrew B 

Lawrence, Bros. &, Co 

Lathe, Martin 

Lennox, Wm. P 

Liucoln, Geo. W 

Lockwood & Co 

Lathrop, Cyrus 

Lippman, Rosenthal & Co 
Leonard, Sheldon & Foster 

Martin, M. L. B 

Macy, Win. LI 

Mann, Harriet C 

Manning, David, jr 

Marquand & Hill 

Maynard, E. D., trustee .. 

Martin, Henry 

Maynard & Sons 

Means, J. Oliver 

Means, Mrs. Sarah H 

Meserole &. Trumball 

McCaine, R. R 

McComb, H. S j 

McFarland, David 

Morehouse, Philo 

Moore, E. C ! 

Morton, Bliss & Co ] 

Morton, L. P ! 

Morton, Rose & Co 

Mumford, Catharine D . . . 

Munroe, B. F | 

Neilson , Chas. H 



•200 


i 
430 


400 


431 


50 


432 


100 


432 


163 


432 


1 


432 


10 


432 


100 


432 


983 


435 


20 


443 


20 


448 


600 


454 


6, 352 


455 


2, 100 


456 


50 


463 


283 


463 


250 


463 


150 


464 


50 


464 


250 


464 


50 


465 


250 


466 


97 


470 


15 


475 


65 


475 


4,005 


475 


740 


475 


1,000 


480 


20 


502 


1,500 


504 


1,240 


514 


100 


516 


100 


548 


200 


520 


400 


521 


1,000 


521 


100 


521 


200 


522 


50 


80 


300 


524 


10 


528 


2,300 


531 


10 


532 


1,630 


535 


600 


537 


2,300 


538 


450 


546 


14 


547 


1 


547 


352 


548 


100 


551 


4 


551 


2,500 


552 


40 


552 


10 


554 


100 




100 


554 


152 


555 


20 


556 


200 


556 


100 


557 


18, 500 


558 


100 


558 


420 j 


558 


50 ! 


560 


5 


560 


-22 


562 



Nickerson, Frederick 


3, 000 


Nickerson, Joseph 


1,109 


Nickerson, Thomas 


435 


Nickerson, F. W., trustee . 


20 


Nickerson, Geo. A 


200 


Nickerson, Albert W 


200 


Nickerson, Josephine 


200 


Nickerson, Miller W 


10 


Newcomb & Cook 


3, 500 


Owens & Lonen 


1,230 


Opdyke, George 


300 


Packard, Frederick 


22 


Paine, Chas. J 


250 


Page, Richardson & Co. .. 


45 


Peters, Geo. H 


50 


Peck, Nathan . . . 


215 


Peck, Thos. B 


110 


Perkins, H. S 


25 


Phelps, Sam'l B 


7 


Prince, M 




Painter, U. H 


53 


Pigot, Jos. B 


1,900 


Poudir, John 


6,566 
100 


Powers, Jos. B . „ 


Pollard, C. W 


50 


Poor, C. C 


10 


Pycott, John W 


50 


Pfitzner & Co 


130 


Pullman, Geo. M 


8,400 
400 


Putnam & Earle 


Raphael, S., & Co 


1,530 


Randolph, E. D., & Co.. . 


100 


Rasmus & Lissignoli 


100 


Robinson, Chase & Co 


200 


Reed, Lucy R 


55 


Reed, Alfred A 


420 


Ritch,Thos. G 


100 


Reed, A. A., jr 


20 


Raymond, Barney & Co.. 


1,700 


Ribon, J. J .. 


400 


Richardson, Miss Elizab'th 


10 


Roberts, Wm. A 


50 


Robbins, Rayal E 


200 


Robbins, Henry A 


4,600 


Robertson, John B t 


10 


Robins, Powell & Co 


100- 


Rutler & Gross 


500' 


Russell, S. T., & Co 


200 


Rutton & Brown 


1,400 


Rotterdamsche Banks . . . 


640 


Sargent, Ignatius 


200 


Sanford, Wm. E 


88 


Sampson, J 


6. 


Scranton, J. H 


10 


Sanders, HardenbergU & 




King 


100' 


Sands, SamT S., & Co' 


100 


Stanton, J. S 


•10 


Smallev, Sam'l 


25 


Smalley, Alvan 


40 


Swan, Otis D., & Co 


900 


Stevens, Ward B 


1 


Stevens, E. H 


6 


Stevens, Hiram A ..... . 


10 


Sweetser. Isaac 


50 


Seymour, Wm. A 


5 


Swift, Wm. C 


500 



604 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

List of stockholders Union Pacific Railroad Company, &c. — Continued. 



562 
563 
563 
564 
565 
568 
568 
568 
574 
572 
574 
576 
• 582 
586 
588 

607 
608 



610 
616 
617 
619 
620 
622 
622 
622 
624 
626 
627 
628 
629 
630 
632 
634 
635 
635 
636 
638 



Smith, Mayo G 

Smith, Henry O 

Speyer & Co., Philip 

Stetson, Thos. M 

Sweet, Edward, &, Co 

Skinner, David 

Smith, Elizabeth 

Smith, Fred. H 

Stone, Ehen F 

Scott, Thomas A 

Scott, E. P., &Co 

Suydam, James S 

Scott, Strong & Co 

Schell, Augustus 

Skillings, "Whitney Bros. 
& Barnes 

Taft, JohnB 

The office of Administra- 
tion of American Funds, 
&c „. 

Taussig, Fisher & Co 

Taylor, Win, H 

Thatcher, Isaac 

Tapp, Wallace 

Trask& Stone...... 

Ten Harve & Van Essen. 

Ter williger, F. L 

Tillingkast, Wm. E 

Teixeira de Mattos Bros. . 

Thorn dike, Jas. P., trustee 

Thieriot, F. M 

Trowbridge, E. H 

Trowbridge, Henry 

Thompson, J. Edgar 

Trowbridge, E. Hayes, jr. 

Tuttle, Chas 

Tucker, Joseph 

Turner, Seth 

Truman, H. H 

Tutein, Nolthenius & de 
Haan 



10 
154 

300 

1,004 

750 

50 

2, 500 

100 

50 

100 

100 

12, 361 

500 

100 

500 
3 



350 
100 
111 

1,061 

50 

900 

20 

5 

200 

3,820 

2,000 

100 

300 

661 

100 

100 

20 

100 

50 

100 



638 
655 
656 
657 
659 
622 
664 
678 
667 
668 
668 
669 
673 
674 
674 
674 
674 
676 
678 
679 
680 
681 
681 
682 
682 
682 
683 
685 
685 
691 
694 
695 
696 
698 
698 
699 



470 



Ten Harve Frzn, J. L . . . . ; 

Van Wyck, Jacob 1 

Vernon, Sophia ! 

Vemilye & Co j 

Vernam & Hay j 

Von Hoffman, L., & Co.. . 
Voorhouse, H. C.,&Co. .. 

Wallace, F. B., & Co j 

Waite,C. C j 

Warren, Walter P I 

Warner, C. H., cashier ! 

Walker, Francis T I 

Warner & Co ' 

Weeks, Stephen ! 

Weld, Benj.C j 

Weld, Ella A 

Wheelock, Jerome l 

Watson, Walter 

Williams, John M.-S j 

Williams, Theo. J 

Williams & Guion 

Winchester, O. F 

White, Mrs. Emily Francis 

White, Wm.M | 

Witherell, Mrs. Sarah A.. 

Winship, J. P. C | 

Whitney, Edwin j 

Whitehouse & Co i 

Winchester, J. T . 

Williams, Wm. S i 

Widow, Tjeenk & Co .... 

Wotterback, R. D i 

Walker, Francis T., & Co. i 

Whitcomb, E. A 

Whitridge, J. A 

Wordeu & Leverich 



100 

100 

1 

2,200 

900 

600 

300 

2.400 

122 

50 

1,000 

400 

600 

60 

25 

25 

10 

7,000 

89 

25 

150 

200 

120 

274 

100 

10 

13 

300 

100 

1,300 

170 

200 

1,800 

50 

100" 

1,800 



367, 450 



List of subscribers to the capital stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, (shares one thousand dollars each,) ivith the number of shares sub- 
scribed and amount paid on same set opposite the names of such subscribers. 



Name. 



Grinnell, Moses H 

Kountze, A . . ! 

McCormick, John . 
McPherson, W. M. 

Swasey, W. J 

Williams & Guion 
Young, Brigham . . 



No. of 


Amount 


shares. 


paid. 


10 


110,000 


2 


400 


2 


200 


5 


500 


2 


200 


5 


1,000 


5 


5,000 




17, 300 



I certify that the foregoing list of stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, representing three hundred sixty-seven thousand four hundred and fifty (367,450) 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



605 



shares, and also the foregoing list of subscribers to capital stock, one thousand dol- 
lars ($1,000) shares, representing payments amounting to seventeen thousand three 
hundred dollars, ($17,300,) are true and correct, as shown by the books of the company 
at the close of business February 24, 1872. 
Very respectfully, 

JAMES G. HARRIS, 

Transfer Agent. 



[Rollins 11.] 

List of stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad Company at the close of 
business February 26, LS70. 



Alley, John B 

Ames, F. L 

Ames, Gustavus 

Ames, Mrs. R. C 

Ames, Oliver 

Ames, Oliver, & Sons. 

Ames, Oakes 

Ames, Oakes, trustee. 

Ames, P. Adams 

Andrews, F. W 



Allen. 

Appleton, Daniel F 

Atkins. Elisha 

Baker, E.H 

Baker, jr., E. H 

Baker, William 

Balch,G.H 

Balcb, Agnes 

Ball,H. K 

Baltzer, Hermon R I 

Bangs, William H i 

Bard well, Josiah I 

Bard well, Josiah, trustee 

Barnes, O. W I 

Bartlett, J. R i 

Barnum, P. T ; 

Bates, Ben j. E i 

Bates, Benj. E., treasurer,trustees 
Bates, Benj. E., trustee for Mrs. L. 

E. Nourse. 

Bates, Benj . E., James T i 

Beard, Eli ! 

Beard, Sylvester M ! 

Bell, Clark j 

Benyon, A. J j 

Blake, Henry T ! 

Bliss, George I 

Blood, Henry I 

Boyer, B. M 

Boyer, B. M., trustee for Mrs. B 

M. Boyer. 

Bradford, Gamaliel 

Bradley, C. P 

Breed, Hubbard 

Bristol, W. B 

Brooks, James 

Burt, Samuel P 

BushnelLC.S 

Butler,Peter 

Chadsey, C. Allen 

Chapman, O. S 



3,833 

320 

300 

• 30 

32, 113 

5,140 

20,319 

1,099 

2, 179 

1,485 

50 

188 

5, 044 

5, 450 

457 

40 

45 

30 

30 

100 

. 100 

3,814 

1,145 

47 

110 

200 

3,735 

1,172 

351 



Charlick, Oliver ] 

Childs, Otis 

Cisco, J. J . ! 

Claflin, William 

Comstock, J. D j 

Condict, J. E i 

Cook, Clarissa ■ 

Cook, Ebenezer j 

Coolidge, J.T \ 

Coolidge, J. T.,. jr 

Crane, H. C 

Crane, H. C, trustee 

Crane, H. C, trustee Mrs. W. D.i 
Train. 

Crane, H. C, J.J \ 

Credit Mobilier of America , 

Cummings, W. A 

Cushman, James S 

Cu shin an & Hurlbert '• 

Davies, J. M ! 

De Haven & Bro 

Delevan, C. S »...] 

Dillon, Sidney 

Dillon, Mrs. Hannah 



30 

655 

655 

10 

50 

45 

240 

29 

411 

87 

735 

100 

10 

257 

490 

100 

4, 926 

187 

20 

3, 148 



Dix, John A 

Duff, John 

Duff, John R 

Durant, W. F 

Durant, T. C 

Eagar, E.R 

Easton, A. D 

Egleston, W. C 

Eiliott, S.M 

Emott, James 

Everett, J. Mason 

Eustis, W. F., trustee 

Fearing, Albert 

Fessenden, L. G 



Fessenden, Sewall H 

First National Bank, New Haven 
II Fiske, C. H., trustee • 

Fiske, jr., James 

Foote. jr., F. W 

j; Forbes, W. D 

j] Foster, D wight 

j' Foster, Pierpont B 

Fowler, James H 

|: French, C. H 

\\ French, L. Eugene. 

Gardner, C. P 



Gilbert, Horatio . 



. 9 

20 

2,255 

340 

3 

80 

551 

1,100 

1,800 

250 

2, 817 

1,380 

1,176 

50 

1,890 

575 

200 

100 

250 

140 

10 

7,300 

5, 240 

785 

690 

4,880 

11, 082 

760 

36, 522 

60 

25 

50 

240 

260- 

so. 

10* 

200 

80- 

287' 

500 

400 

6 

50' 

200» 

200 

367 

1,512. 

260 

40 

50 

1,671 



(i06 CREDIT MOBILIEK AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

List of stockholders Union Pacific Railroad Company, &c. — Continued. 



Gilbert, flora fc to J 
Gilmore, E. W.... 
Glidden, John A . . . 
Glidden, John M. 
Glidden, W. T.... 
Gray, Francis A . . . 

Gray, G. G 

Gray, H. W 

Grilling, M.H 



Grimes, James W 

Griswold, J. N. A 

Guest, W. A 

Ham, Benj. F 

Ham, Benj. F., James M., trustee 

Hammond, Henry B 

Harding, A. C 

Haskins, Ira 

Haven & Co 

Hawley & Co., T 

Hawley, W. N 

Hazard, Anna 

Hazard, Elizabeth 

Hazard, Elizabeth, trustee 

Hazard, Isaac P 

Hazard, Mary P 

Hazard, Roland 

Hazard, R. G 

Hazard, Sarah L 

Hedden, Josiah 

Hinckley, S. L 

Hobart, jr., Aaron 

Hodges, F. S 

Holliday, Benj 

Hooper, Samuel, & Co 

Horner, Auna 

Hotchkiss, Henry 

Hough, B. K 

Howland, Gardner G 

Hunnewell & Sons, H. H 

Hurlbert, jr., Henry A 

Ingalls, Henry 

Ingersoll, J. E 

Jencks, B. H 

Johnson, R. C 

Johnston, James B 

Jones, David 

Kennedy, G. W 

King, John L 

Lambard, C. A 

Lancon, George 

Lee, N 

Lockwood, Le Grand 

Lord, Thomas 

Low, A. A 

Macy, Geo. N 

Macy, W. H ". 

McComb, H. S 

McCormick, C. H 

McNeil, R. G. S 

Manning, Thomas 

Martin, Henry 

May nard & Sons 

Means, W. P. M 

Mason, W. P 

Merrick, G. G 



958 
1,452 

605 

735 
4,423 

125 
9, 030 
4,605 

100 

40 

2,077 

1.009 

445 
3, 647 

100 
20 

270 
25 

100 

225 
90 

143 

160 

53 

2,077 

101 

2, 462 
18, 856 

100 

1,000 

50 

163 

20 

1,300 

6,352 

3 

1,212 

317 

300 

1,500 

200 

100 

11 

1, 500 

750 

3, 680 
3,197 

610 

750 

3, 051 

1,700 

20 

2,006 

105 

735 

25 

2,535 

6, 092 

8,011 

20 

100 

4 

430 

60 

40 

200 



Meyer, E. Reed 

Moore, E.C 

Morton, Bliss & Co 

Nass, William 

Neilson, C, H 

Nickerson, Frederick. ... 

Nickerson, Joseph 

Nickerson, Miller W 

Nickerson, Thomas 

Opdyke, George 

Parker, C. H 

Partridge, Warren 

Peck, Nathan 

Perkins, F. P 

Perkins, T. H., guardian 

Phelps, James 

Pigot, Joseph 

Pomeroy, E. H. 

Pondir, John 

Pasmus &Lissignola. .. 

Reed, A. A 

Reichie, Louis 

Ribon, J. J 

Rice & Whiting 

Richardson, Benj 

Richardson, Miss E 

Richardson, Joseph .... 

Robbins, Chandler 

Robbins, H. A 

Robbins, RE 

Rogers, W. C 

Sampson, J 

Sandford, Henry 

Sandford, James H 

Scranton, E. S 

Scranton, J. II 

Sears, Geo. O 

Seney, G. J 

Shaw, Frank 

Skinner & Co., F 

Smith, G. P.. 

Smith, O.C 

Spencer, A. W 

Sprague, C. J 

Stetson, Thomas M 

Stevens, W. B 

Stevens, W. B., trustee - 

Stevens, jr., W. B 

Stevens, Aniory & Co - . . 

Stone, Daniel 

Sturgis, James .. 

Sweetser. Isaac 

Ten Harve & Van Essen . 

Thatcher, Isaac 

Thomas, T. G 

Torrey, Lydia 

Tracy, John F 

Trowbridge, E. H 

Trowbridge. Henry 

TruesdelLL.B 

Turner, Seth 

Tuttle, Chas , 

Vernon, Sophia 

Vialle, Chas. A , 



Wavrcn.W.P 



30 

118 

1,0C0 

15 

822 

2, 957 

3, 197 

10 

945 

4, 725 

35 

105 

4ir, 

40 

140 

1,072 

20 

1, 929 

300 

420 

15 

1,208 

53 

50 

10 

1,900 

40 

459 

2, 755 

80 

6 

518 

50 

200 

10 

100 

100 

3 

1.537 

'900 

100 

300 

1, 025 

404 

1,600 

159 

35 

650 

60 

100 

75 

20 

961 

60 

45 

300 

367 

561 

80 

50 

280 

o 

loe 

622 
100 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. (307 

List of stockholders Union Pacific Railroad Company, tCe. — Continued. 



Warren & Co 

Wheelock, Jerome 

White, Mrs. E. Frances . 

White, W. M 

Wilder, Geo. E 

Williams, Horace 

Williams, Jar vis & Sous 
Williams, John E 




Williams, J. M.S.- 
Williams & Guiou 
Winchester, O.F... 
Zabrouski, M 



5,001 
910 
100 
595 



337, 450 



List of subscriber* to the capital stock of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company, (shares one thousand dollars each,) with the number of shares 
subscribed and amount paid on same set opposite the names of such sub- 
scribers. 



Names. 



No. 

shares. 



Grinnell, Moses H 10 

Kountz, A | 2 

McCormick, John I 2 

McPherson,W.M ! 5 

Swasey.W. J \ 2 

Williams & Guion | 5 

Young, Brigham | 2 



Amount 
paid. 



$10,000 00 
400 00 
200 00 
500 00 
200 00 
1, 000 00 

I 5, 000 00 



17.300 00 



I certify that the foregoing list of stockholders, representing three hundred and 
thirty-seven thousand four hundred and fifty (337,450) shares, and also the foregoing- 
list of subscribers to the capital stock, representing payments amounting to seventeen 
thousand three hundred (17,300) dollars, are true and correct as shown by the stock- 
ledgers of the Union Pacitic Railroad Company at the close of business February 20. 
1S70. 



[Rollins 12.] 

List of stockholders Union Pacific Railroad Company, and number of 
shares standing against their respective names at closing of books, Febru- 
ary 25, 1871. 



Abbott, Frederick 

Adams, Cyrus 

Alley, John B 

Alley, G.B 

Ames, Oliver 

Ames, Oakes 

Ames, Oakes, trustee . . 

Ames, P. Adams 

Ames, Oliver, & Sons 

Ames, Gustavus 

Ames, Mrs. R. C 

Ames, Fred. L 

Ames, Catherine II . . . 

Ames, Oakes A 

Ames, Oliver, second. . 
Andrews, Frank W... 
Andrews, Eliza T 



180 

30 

1,600 

200 

32, 113 

16, 568 

749 

600 

5,140 

275 

30 

1,185 

20 

100 

100 

1,535 

45 



Ashley, O. D. & Co.. 

Atkins, Elisha 

Armstrong, Mrs -Emily S 

Baker, Ezra H 

Baker, Ezra II., jr 

Bates, Benjamin E, treasurer 

of trustees 

Baltzer, Herman R 

Baker, William 

Barstou , Rogers L 

Barry John S 

Bave, Arthur 

Bartley, Francis 

Bates & Brown 

Barlow, James 

Baker, Henry T 

Beard, Eli 



450 

4,084 

87 

4, 850 

457 
1, 148 

300 

40 

5 

100 

100 

530 
o 
9 

355 



608 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UXION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

List of stockholders Union Pacific Railroad Company, &c. — Continued. 



Beard, Sylvester M 

Benyon, A. J 

Bend, W. B. 

Beck, Brothers 

Bird, J. S 

Bliss, George 

Bliss, George, trustee 

Bliss, E. C. W 

Black, George W 

Blauvett, G. M. S 

Boyd, Falls & Vincent 

Bolles, M., & Co. 

Brooks, James 

Briggs, Edwin 

Breed, Hubbard 

Briggs, H. O 

Brewer, James P., agent . . . 

Brintall, P. L 

Buslinell, C. S 

Butler, Peter 

Bullard, Lewis H 

Bullard, John R 

Bush, Richard D., trustee . 

Burr, Joshua 

Bfowu, Dunning & Co. ... 

Byram, E. S 

Bemis, George F 

Castellanos, A. V 

Capron & Strong 

Casey, Oliver S 

Chapman, Oliver S 

Charlick, Oliver 

Childs,Otis 

Chase, George H 

Champ, James 

Cisco, John A 

Cisco, John J 

Cisco. John J., & Son 

Claflin, William 

Clark, William Adolphus.. 

Cotter, William 

Comstock, John D 

Coolidge, John T 

Codman, Charles R 

Colby, Walter 

Cogswell, George B 

Cook, Olney 

Cooke, Jay, & Co 

Cobb, F. D., & Co 

Crane, Henry C 

Crane, Henry C, trustee .. 

Crane, J. J 

Credit Mobilier of America 

Crosby, E. C, trustee 

Crosby, George L : 

Crowell, Prince S 

Cummings, William A 

Cutting, jr., R. L., & Co . . . 

Davies, John M 

Davis, William H 

Daniels, David H 

Delavau, C. T 

De Haven & Bro 

Dennison, William 

Dehon, William, trustee... 
Dillon, Sidney 



655 

100 

200 

100 

50 

320 

88 

5 

2 

30 

200 

7 

490 

80 

10 

75 

50 

300 

2, 711 

7 

' 10 

75 

21 

5 

200 

25 

200 

ioo 

150 

10 

3, 148 

9 

40 

20 

500 

200 

500 

3,105 

340 

30 

25 

3 

2,050 

104 

15 

25 

40 

100 

50 

503 

100 

50 

1,890 

15 

3 

120 

575 

300 

250 

2 

50 

10 

100 

100 

240 

7,300 



Dillon, Mrs. Hannah 

Dix, John A 

Dodge, G. M 

Dodge, James G. C . . . 

Dorrance, E. B 

Dotger, A. J . . . . 

Duff, John 

Duff, John, in trust .. 

Duff,JohnR 

Durant, Thomas C... 

Durant,T. F 

Durant & Earle 

Earle, William M .... 

Eagar, Edward R 

Easton &, Milne 

Eno, John C 

Egleston, William C. 

Everett, J. Mason 

Ewell, Wood & Co... 

Fahr, Charles 

Fessenden, Sewell H, 
Fessenden, Louisa G . 
Fessenden, George L . 

Fisk, James, jr 

Fitzgerald, G. E 



Foster, Pierpont B 

Fox,JohnT 

Ford, N., &Sons 

Fowler & Wilson 

Fogg Brothers & Co 

French, L. Eugene 

Frankenhei mer, L 

Frost, Charles L 

Francis, Charles B 

Fuller, Charles E. & Co 

Gardner, Charles P 

Gardner, William 

Gardiner, Charles P., trustee. .. 

Gilbert, Horatio 

Gilbert, Horatio, jr 

Gilmore, E. W 

Gilmore, William 

Gilmore, Edwin 

Gilmore, Mary E 

Gilmore, Alson 

Gilley, J.E.M 

Glidden, William t 

Glidden, John M 

Glidden, John A 

Gordon, William A 

Goodwin, H. H 

Gorham, Alfred, trustee 

Gibson, Casan 

Gray, H. W 

Gray, George Gris wold 

Gray, H. W., & Co 

Grimes, James W 

Griffing, M. H 

Griswold, John N. A 

Grant, Richard S 

Graham, Charles 

Graves, R. R., & Co 

Ham,B. F 

Ham Brothers 

Hazard, Anna 



5, 240 

210 

785 

200 

5 

1,300 

4, 880 
26, 000 
11, 082 

5, 286 
3,500 

600 

500 

60 

100 

3,150 

100 

80 

100 

1,600 

40 

293 

34 

6 

21 

450 

367 

100 

70 

4 

8 

40 

600 

30 

100 

250 

176 

7 

850 

510 

768 

1, 452 

10 

10 

10 

30 

15 

4, 173 

735 

605 

25 

20 

o 

500 

2, 470 

8,130 

4,000 

1,013 

100 

7,309 

500 

16 

200 

161 

4, 233 

143 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



609 



List of stockholders. Union Pacific Railroad Company, &c. — Continued. 



Hazard, Elizabeth 

Hazard, Elizabeth, trustee — 

Hazard, Isaac P ■. , 

Hazard, Mary P 

Hazard, Roland 

Hazard, Rowland G 

Hazard. Sarah L 

Hatch, Webster T.. & Son 

Haven, Franklin , 

Haven, G. G., & Co 

Hawley, F. A., & Co 

Hawley, W. N 

Hawley, T., & Co 

Harding, Abner, C 

Hammond, Henry B 

Hedden, Josiah /. 

Heath, William & Co 

Hines, M. B „ 

Hinckley, Edward D 

Hinkley, John K 

Hobart, Aaron, jr 

Holladay, Benjamin 

Hooper, Samuel & Co 

Horner, Anna 

Hotchkiss, Henry 

Hough, Charles T., trustee 

Hough, B.K 

Howard, Mary L 

Holly, John J 

Howland, G. G 

Howland, Gardner G 

Horton, H. L., & Co 

Hodges, F. S 

Hunnewell, H. H., & Sons 

Hale, William L 

Ingalls. Henry . . . , 

Ingersoll, J. E 

Johnston, James B 

Jones, David 

Jones, Warren L 

Jordon, N. W 

Keith, Edwin . 

Keith, F. G... 

Kelly, Stillman 

Kelly, Samuel K 

Kimball, D., guardian 

King, George P 

Kilborne, A. W 

Kimball, C. H.,&Co 

Kohn, Adolf 

Lambard, Charles A 

Lancon, George 

Lapham, Benedict 

Lawrie, Andrew B 

Lavitt, Gould & Co 

Lane, Derrick 

Lee, N 

Lennox, William P „ 

Livingston, W. S 

Lockwood, Le Grand . . . ^ 

Lord, Thomas 

Lathrop, Cyrus 

Lathrop, CD 

Lathrop, C. S 

Martin, Henry . . . 

Macy, William H 



160 

53 

2,077 

101 

917 

10. 661 

100 

200 

680 

600 

50 

90 

225 

10 

700 

615 

150 

10 

100 

25 

163 

1,000 

6, 352 

3 

1,712 

20 

583 

10 

5 

100 

300 

100 

20 

1,500 

2. 200 , 

'200 

11 

1,680 

97 

15 

65 

100 

2 

20 

18 

20 

20 

200 

300 

100 

100 

100 

100 

100 

100 

100 

20 

200 

15 

500 

105 

10 

26 

50 

4 



Mann, Harriet C 

Marquand, Hill & Co 

Manning, David, jr 

Marie, Peter 

McComb, Henry S 

McCormick, Cyrus H 

McNeil, R. G.'S 

McLeod, Allen 

McFarland, David 

McWilliams, W. J 

McGregor, J. A 

Myer,E,Reed 

Means, W. P. M 

Means, J. Oliver 

Moore, E.C 

Merrick, George G 

Morton, Bliss & Co 

Morse, E. Rollins & Bro., agents 



Monroe, E. S., & Co 

Mumford, Catharine D. 

Neiison, Charles H 

Nass, William , 

Naetling, C. T 



Nickerson, Frederick ........ 

Nickerson, F. W., trustee 

Nickerson, Joseph 

Nickerson, Thomas 

Nickerson, George A 

Nickerson, Miller W. 

Nickerson , Albert W 

Nickerson, Josephine 

Ober, Joseph E 

01dfield,H 

Opdyke, George 

Paine, Charles J 

Parker, Charles Henry 

Papanti, L 

Page, Ri«hardson & Co 

Perry, William S 

Peters, C. G 

Peck, Nathan 

Perkins, T. Henry 

Peck, Philip 

Peck, Thomas B 

Peters, George H 

Perkins, H. S 

Perry & Lawrence 

Phillips, W.P 

Phelps, Samuel B 

Pondir, John 

Pollard, C. W 

Powers, Joseph B 

Poor,C.C 

Presbrey, Edward A., cashier 

Pigot, Joseph B 

Pierson, J. M 

Phelps, James 

Pratt, Albert F 

Prince, M 

Putnam, N. D 

Putnam, CA 

Pycott & Bennett 

Pycott, John W ■ 

Reed, Alfred A 



14 

1,750 

1 

1.400 

2,875 

5, 171 

20 

21 

20 

3 

50 

30 

60 

40 

18 

200 

19, 050 

250 

200 

100 

50 

822 

45 

100 

1,000 

3,148 

20 

2,369 

685 

200 

10 

200 

200 

25 

309 

2,396 

250 

35 

50 

200 

100 

.600 

415 

100 

100 

10 

50 

25 

100 

50 

7 

8.935 

50 

100 

10 

300 

6,495 

200 

140 

3 

5 

1,203 

100 

50 

50 

420 



39 c M 



610 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

I/lst of stockholders. Union Pacific Railroad Company, &c. — Continued. 



Read, Lucy R 

Redmond, William, jr ...... . 

Randolph & Co., E. D 

Richardson, Joseph 

Richardson, Miss Elizabeth.. 

Richardson, Benjamin 

Ribon, J. J 

Reicher, Louis 

Ritch, Thomas G 

Ribon &. Munoz 

Robbins, Henry A 

Robbins, Royal E 

Robertson, John B 

Robinson, William H 

Robins, Powell & Co 

Southwick, John C 

Sampson, J 

Sargent, Ignatius 

Sanford, Charles F 

Sanford, William E 

Sanford, James H 

Scranton, J. H 

Scott, T., & Son 

Scott, E. P., & Co 

Sears, Nathan 

Sears, Jacob 

Seymour, William A 

Shepard, Edward <$., coll 

Smith, Mayo G 

Smith, Henry O 

Sprague, Joseph 

Spragne, Charles J., cashier - 

Spits, Henry B 

Stout & Dickenson 

Stearns, Frank P 

Stetson , Thomas M 

Stevens, William B 

Stevens, Amory & Co . 

Studley, S. G 

Stevens, Ward B 

Stone & Downer 

Stone, Eben F 

Stevens, William H 

Stevens, E. H . 

Stevens, Hiram A 

Stephens. David .,.•;_ 

Stoker, Taylor & Co 

Suydam, James S 



25 

100 

844 

4,066 

10 

100 

1,506 

55 

500 

2, 200 

4,700 

7,850 

10 

200 

200 

998 

6 

200 

87 

88 

138 

10 

100 

2, 300 

35 

80 

5 

20 

10 

154 

20 

100 

21 

100 

10 

1,004 

100 

420 

20 

1 

799 

50 

10 

8 

10 

45 

600 

13, 216 



Sweet, Edward & Co 

Sweetser, Isaac 

Taylor, William H 

Taylor, Louis K 

Ten Harve & Van Essen . . 

Terwilleger, F. L 

Thatcher, Isaac 

Thomson, Milton H 

Thain, Alexander 

Tillinghast, W. E 

Torrey, Lydia 

Tower, Giddings & Torry.. 

Trowbridge, E. H 

Trowbridge, Henry 

Tuttle, Charles 

Tucker, Joseph 

Turner, Seth 

Underhill, George E 

Utley, Dougherty & Scott - 

Vernon, Sophia 

Vermilye & Co 

Waite, C.C 

Warren, Walter P 

Warner, Oliver 

Warner, C. H., cashier 

Walker, Francis T 

Weston & De Billier 

Weld, Ella 

Weld, Benjamin C 

Weeks, Stephen 

Weeks, Mrs. Emily Francis 

White, C.E 

White, William M 

White, Davis J 

Wheelock, Jerome 

Whitney, Edwin 

Williams, John M. S 

Williams & Guion 

Williams, Horace 

Williams, Theodore J 

Williams & Hall 

Williams, Mrs. E. A 

Winchester, O. F 

Wing,J.E 

Willis, J. H 

Total.: 



400 

75 

1,240 

200 

20 

2 

561 

100 

20 

200 

45 

25 

150 

561 

1,673 

100 

50 

400 

20 

3 

1,200 

622 

50 

10 

1,000 

1,300 

1 

25 

25 

60 

120 

20 

1,074 

20 

10 

10 

1,389 

3, OK) 

100 

25 

100 

2 

200 

50 

15 



367, 450 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



611 



List of subscribers to the capital stock of the Union Pacific .Railroad Gom- 
pany, shares $1,000 each, with the number of shares subscribed, and 
amount paid on same set opposite the names of such subscribers. 



Names 



Number of 
shares. 



Grinnell, Moses II . 
Kountz, A 

McCormick, John . . 
McPherson,W. M . . 

Swasey, W. I 

Williams &, Guion. 
Young, Brigliam . . . 



Total 



10 
2 
2 

5 
2 
5 

5 



Amount 
paid. 



10,000 
400 
200 
500 

200 
1,000 
5, 000 



17, 300 



I certify that the foregoing list of stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, representing three hundred and sixty-seven thousand four hundred and fifty 
(367,450) shares, and also the foregoing list of subscribers to capital stock, one thousand 
dollars, ($1,000,) shares representing payments amounting to seventeen thousand three 
hundred, ($17,300,) are true and correct, as shown by the books of the company at the 
close of business, February 25, 1871. 

JAMES G. HARRIS, 

Ti'ansfcr Agent. 



Q. What disposition was made of income bonds I — A. Five thousand 
eight hundred and seventy were delivered to trustees at GO. Two thou- 
sand four hundred and fifty-seven were exchanged for first-mortgage 
bonds. 

Q. With whom was that exchange made'? — A. Made with the parties 
who held those certificates. 

Q. Do you know who they were '? 



[Rollins 14.] 

the union pacific railroad company. 

Statement of •income bonds exchanged for certificates for first-mortgage bonds, 



1869. 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 31 
Oct. 21 
Oct 31 



G.Bradford 

Oakes Ames 

W. B. Stevens 

A. Hobart 

Thos.M. Stetson 

G. Bradford 

J. Bardwell 

J. B. Johnston 

H. A. & R. E. Robbins 

F. W. Andrews 

H.Hotchkiss 

Ebenezer Cook 

H.& H.J.Gilbert.... 

Oakes Ames 

W.H. Macy 

J. J. Cisco & Son 

A. A. Low 

E. H. Trowbridge 

Martin Zehrowski.. .. 





1869. 


1 


Oct. 31 


1 


Oct. 31 


4 


Oct. 31 


1 


Oct. 31 


2 


Oct. 21 


7 


Oct. 31 


20 


Oct. 31 


15 


Oct. 31 


30 


Oct. 31 


8 


Oct. 31 


11 


Oct. 31 


6 


Oct. 31 


14 


Oct. 31 


127 


Oct. 31 


10 


Oct. 31 


13 


Oct. 31 


8 


Oct. 31 


4 


Nov. 5 


7 


Nov. 9 



B.E.Bates.. 

Isaac Thatcher. 

Thos. Nickerson 

Fred. Nickerson . 

Sidney Dillon 

J. B. Alley 

Beards & Cummings 

George Opdyke . 

C. C.Waite 

Saml. Hooper & Co. . 

H. Trowbridge 

E. W. Giimore - 

J. Bardwell 

E. Atkins 

Glidden & Williams. 
Joseph Nickerson ... 

O. S. Chapman 

E.H.Baker.... 

Sidney Dillon 



37 



2i» 

7 
6 

4 

2 

30 

3 

4 

2 

36 

36 

26 
50 
10 



612 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Statement of Union Pacific Railroad Company bonds, &c. — Continued. 



1869. 
Nov. 9 
Nov. 11 
Dec. 4 
Nov. 12 
Nov. 12 
Nov. 17 
Nov. 17 
Nov. 19 
Nov. 22 
Nov. 22 
Nov. 19 
Nov. 27 
Dec. 3 
Nov. 25 
Nov. 27 
Dec. 3 
Dec. 
Dec. 
Dec 
Dec. 
Dec. 
Dec. 
Dec. 
Dec. 27 
Nov. 6 
Dec. 14 
Dec. 27 
Dec. 27 
Dec. 28 
Nov. 5 
Dec. 31 

Dec. 31 
Dec, 31 
Dec. 31 
Dec. 31 
1870. 
Jan. 12 
Jan. 14 
Jan. 11 
Jan. 12 



George Opdyke 

S. II. Fessenden 

do 

John Duff 

E. W. Gilman 

O. S. Chapman 

C. C. Waite 

Beards & Cummings . 

Saml. Hooper 

Oakes Ames 

do 

do 

do 

J. Nickerson 

F. Nickerson 

J. Bardwell 

do 

J. Bardwell, trustee 

R. E. Bates, trustee 

do 

H. Trowbridge 

C.S.Bushnell 

Oliver Ames 

do 

do 

Thos. Nickerson 

Joseph. Richardson 

Le Grand Lockwood . . 

Elisha Atkins 

E.H.Baker 

Gliddon & Williams, for 

others. 

Le Grand Lockwood 

Gliddon & Williams 

John Duff 

C. H. McCormick 



Jan. 
Jan. 
Jan. 
Jan. 
Jan. 
Jan. 
Jan. 15 
Jan. 15 
Jan. 7 
Jan. 11 



; do 

Oliver Ames 

J C. 0. Waite 

I C.H. McCormick. 

R. G. Hazard 

! do 

i do 

j do 

F. Skinner & Co . 
j E. W. Gilmore . . . 

Fred. Nickerson . . 

do 

Sidney Dillon.. .. 

J. B. Alley 



25 
o 

2 

67 

2 

5 

2 

6 

26 

5 

50 

23 

73 

14 

7 

10 

5 

10 

3 

54 

2 

30 

76 

75 

200 

4 

4 

28 

10 

] 

1 

1 

10 
21 
53 

1 
1 
2 
5 

28 
2 
1 
5 

14 
3 
6 
1 

40 

14 



1870. 
Jan. 12 
Jan. 12 
Jan. 12 
Jan. 15 
Jan. 19 
Jan. 29 
Jan. 25 
Jan. 25 
Jan. 26 
Jan. 26 
Jan. 26 
Jan. 29 
Jan. 29 
Jan. 29 
Jan. 29 
Jan. 29 
Jan. 29 
Jan. 5 
Feb. 2 
Feb. 16 
Feb. 11 
Feb. 2 
Feb. 9 
Feb. 10 
Feb. 10 
Feb. 11 
Feb. 11 
Feb. 16 
Feb. 16 
Feb. 16 
Feb. 16 
Feb. 16 
Feb. 17 
Feb. 17 
Feb. 18 
Feb. 18 
Feb. 25 
Feb. 28 
Mar. 10 
Mar. 3 
Mar. 7 
Mar. 11 
Apr. 6 
Apr. 21 
Apr. 21 
Apr. 21 
July 12 
Sept. 12 



E. S. Scrauton & Co. 
C.H. McCormick.... 
Beard & Cummings. 

George Opdyke 

G.G.Gray.. 

J. Bardwell 

James Brooks 

George Opdyke 

G. G.Gray 

R. G. Hazard 

do 

J. Bardwell 

E.H.Baker 

do 

T.B.Foster 

C. S. Bushnell 

do 

Oakes Ames 

T.B.Foster 

E. Readmeyer 

B.F.Ham 

George Bliss 

R.G. Hazard 

C.S.Busbneli 

H. C.Crane 

T. C. Durant 

B.F.Ham 

J. Bardwell 

do 

T. C. Durant 

Josiah Hedden 

George Opdyke 

E. H. Gilmore 

G. G. Gray 

John Duff 1. 

T.C. Durant 

H. S. McComb 

J. R. Duff 

David Jones 

T.C. Durant 

H.S. McComb 

David Jones 

Stone & Downer 

B.F.Ham 

do 

Oliver xlmes 

B. F. Ham 

T.C. Durant 



9 

12 

6 

4 

8 
1 

11 
4 
2 
1 

28 



11 

1 

174 

18 
10 
65 

lb 

2 

25 

51 

40 

32 

2 

1 

20 

31 

28 

20 

1 

1 

1 

1 

30 



2, 457 



Boston, February 10, 1873. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



613 



[Rollins 15.] 

Detailed statement of tlis persons who received the S,263 land grant bonds* 
sold under resolution of April 9, 1S69. 



Date. 



To whom delivered. 



No. 



Date. 



1869. 
April 16 
April 20 
April 20 
April 20 
April 20 
April 20 
April 20 
April 20 
April 20 
April 20 
April 21 
April 21 
April 21 
April 22 
April 23 
April 23 
April 23 
April 23 
April 24 
April 24 
April 24 
April 24 
April 24 
April 24 
April 24 
April 24 
April 24 
April 24 
April 26 
April 26 
April 26 
April 27 
April 27 
April 27 
April 27 
April 27 
April 28 
April 23 
April 28 
April 28 
April 28 
April 29 
April 29 
April 29 
April 30 
April 30 
April 30 
April 30 
April 30 
April 30 



May 
May 
Maj 
May 
May 
May 
May 
May 
Mav 



Thomas M. Stetson ; 7 

A. Hobart, jr 5 

Gliddon & Williams 194 

De Haven & Bro 35 

F. Nickerson 15 

H.J.Gilbert ; 7 

Joseph Nickerson 10 

Elisha Atkins 7 

Thomas Nickerson 7 

N.Peck 1 

Isaac Thatcher 19 

W.B.Stevens 2 

G.Bradford..... 21 

W.B.Stevens 10 

F. Nickerson 36 

Oakes Ames 2 

Gliddon & Williams ; 6 

James Brooks 94 

Oakes Ames ■ 458 

Oliver Ames 310 

Benjamin E. Bates 200 

C.A.Lombard 7 

Thomas Nickerson 10 

J.B.Johnston 8 

F. Nickerson 26 

J. Nickerson 33 

C. A. Lombard 126 

H.J.Gilbert 7 

Joseph Nickerson 22 

E.H.Baker 35 

Gliddon & Williams 20 

Elisha Atkins : 113 

J. Bardwell 20 

Oakes Ames 43 

J. J. Cisco & Son 140 

P.P.Shaw 100 

C. S. Buslmell 83 

E.Baker ; 52 

C. H. McCormick 167 

Oakes Ames 25 

F. Skinner 30 

Gliddeu & Williams 13 

E.H.Baker 10 

Thomas Nickerson 8 

H. Trowbridge 8 

J. B. Johnston 34 

J. Bardwell 45 

Gliddon & Williams 30 

Thomas Nickerson 4 

Joseph Nickerson 13 

Nathan Peck 1 

E. H. Trowbridge 10 

J. Bardwell 30 

S.H. Fessenden 5 

Oliver Ames 4 

Oakes Ames 175 

F. Skinner 7 

Glidden & Williams 5 

Joseph Nickerson I 16 



1869. 

|j May 4 

May 5 

May 5 

jj May 5 

II May 6 

May 6 

May 6 

j: May 7 

!| May 7 

I May 7 

May 7 

i May 7 

j ! May 7 

|i Mav 8 

j 1 May 8 

j; May 8 

I May 8 

i Mav 8 

Mav 10 

I May 10 

! May 10 

! May 11 

May 11 

! May 12 

May 12 

Mav 12 

I May 13 

Mav 14 

|| May 14 

\' May 15 

May 17 | 

May 20 j 

May 22 

K May 24 

May 24 | 

[ Mav 25 j 

May 26 I 

1 May 2$ 
Mav 27 l 

i May 27 
May 23 
May 23 
May 28 
Mav 23 

! Mav 23 
Mav 29 
May 29 
May 30 
Mav 30 
May 30 
Mav 30 
May 30 
May 

; June 
June 

I Jane 

'' June 
Jane 



To whom delivered. 



No. 



C. A. Lombard 

Glidden &, Williams... 

J. Bardwell 

F. W. Andrews 

S. H. Fessenden 

Oakes Ames 

J. Bardwell 

F. Skinner & Co 

Oliver Ames 

Gliddon &, Willi am s... 

Thomas Nickerson 

Oakes Ames 

Elisha Atkins 

Oliver Ames 

Joseph Nickerson 

C. C.Waite 

A. A. Low 

E. W. Gilman 

C. A. Lombard 

Nathan Peck 

E.G. Hazard 

Joseph Richardson 

E. W. Gilmore 

F. Skinner & Co 

C. C. Waite 

Eli Beard 

Oakes Ames 

Oliver Ames 

John Duff 

O. S. Chapman 

Joseph Richardson < 

R. G. Hazard | 

Oliver Ames i 

B. E.Bates ! 

Oliver Ames ' 

C. A. Lombard '■■ 

R. G. Hazard ! 

R. G. Flazard ! 

R. G. Hazard ! 

W. Knight ! 

A. Iseliu&Co '■ 

George Opdyke & Co ; 

De Haven & Bro 

P, P. Shaw 

De Haven &. Bro 

Oliver Ames 

H. J.Gilbert 

Oakes Ames*. 

J. B. Alley 

C. S. Bushneli 

J.J. Cisco 

George Opdyke 

George Bliss 

Elisha Atkins j 

E.G. Hazard 

R. G. Hazard 

De Haven & Bro , 

J. B. Alley 

M. Zebrowski 



4 

10 
13 
22 

5 

3 
83 
15 
33 
75 

4 

150 

50 

32 

7 
10 
19 
10 
10 

7 
19 

5 
16 
25 
10 
30 
340 

2 
100 
16 
13 
55 
54 
12 
20 

8 

25 

• 30 

101 

62 

146 

170 

25 

135 

84 

30 

2 

10 

83 

57 
336 

31 
6 

60 
115 

55 
100 

16 



614 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD, 



Detailed statement of the persons, &c. — Continued. 



Date. 



1869. 
Jane 5 
June 8 
June 9 
June 10 
June 11 
June 12 
June 12 
June 15 
June 15 
June 15 
June 15 
June 15 
June 15 
June 15 
June 15 
June 22 
June 23 
June 24 
June 24 
June 25 
June 28 
July 2 
July 6 
July 12 
July 21 
July 23 
Aug. 20 



To whom delivered. J No. 

j 

G.M.Dodge ' 39 

Oliver Ames j 5 

Oliver Ames 8 

F. W. Patterson \ 6 

Sidney Dillon 187 

Gliddon & Williams ; 15 

Samuel Hooper & Co | 66 

O. Ames, trustee j 6 

R. G- Hazard 200 

Gliddon & Williams 3 

H.C.Crane | 6 

C. S. Bushnell ! 83 

De Haven & Bro 40 

P.P.Shaw i 67 

R. G. Hazard I 103 

R. G. Hazard j 500 

Joseph Nickerson j 15 

R. G. Hazard | 190 

Joseph Nickerson J 28 

Elisha Atkins j 10 

O. S. Chapman J 4 

R. G. Hazard i 200 

F. Skinner & Co ! 15 

C. H. McCormick ! 61 

E.H.Baker j 14 

Oliver Ames ! 6 

Sidney Dillon I 15 



Date. 



To whom delivered. 



1869. 
Aug. 20 
Aug. 20 
Aug. 20 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Aug. 31 
Sept. 14 
Sept. 25 
Sept. 28 
Dec, 7 

1870. 
Mar. 7 



James Brooks 

J. J. Cisco 

C. S. Bushnell , 

R. G. Hazard 

C. S. Bushnell 

J. B.Johnston 

Williams & Guion.. 

W. B.Bristol 

William White 

J. B. Pigot 

Le Grand Lockwood 

H. Hotchkiss 

H. Trowbridge , 

W. H. Macy 

G. P. Smith 

Gliddon & Williams 

C. A. Lombard 

Thomas W. Stetson . 

F. Nickerson ... 

J. B. Alley 

Sidney Dillon 

C. A. Lombard . . 

C. S. Bushnell 

C. S. Bushnell 



No. 



50 

75 
50 



1 

5 
3 

8 
3 
1 
5 

18 

14 
9 
2 

12 
9 

75 
4 

70 

24 



8,263 



Boston, February 11, 1873. 



[KOLLINS 16.] 

Boston, June 12, 1872. 

At a directors 7 meeting of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, held 
in Boston Jane 12, 1872, Mr. Oliver Ames, chairman of the special com- 
mittee, read the following report on O. S. Bnshnell's account, viz: 

The committee to whom was referred the unsettled accounts between 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company and C. S. Bushnell, beg leave to 
report that the balance against him is apparently $149,189.91 ; from this, 
however, should be deducted about $76,000, which we think was ex- 
pended for the interest of the road in sustaining the value of the first- 
mortgage bonds at a period of depression wiien persecuted by Fisk and 
Judge Barnard in the courts in New York City. 

Mr. Bushnell Iras sundry other claims amounting to about $42,000 for 
bills alleged to have been paid by him, which the committee are dis- 
posed to think equitable, and recommend they be allowed on the produc- 
tion of vouchers for the same which shall be satisfactory to Mr. Oliver 
Ames and Mr. John Duff. 

These allowances, amounting to $118,000, being deducted, a balance 
of about $30,000 remains, which we consider to be due the company. 

A charge of $100,000 against Mr. Bushnell which stands on our books 
In connection with some transaction in bonds with Prosper P. Shaw, of 
New York, at a time of much excitement, when it is not surprising that 
irregularities of book-keeping might have taken place, is not conclusive 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD, 



615 



to your committee, and has not been treated as proved against Mr. 
Bushnell. 

It is very evident that this sum is due the company from somebody j 
apparently it is from Mr. Shaw, and we recommend that a suit be en- 
tered for its recovery, with the understanding that this settlement with 
Mr. Bushnell shall not act as a bar to future claims on him, should de- 
velopments in proceedings against Shaw, or any other party, so warrant. 
The only other matter to which the committee would refer, is Mr. Bush- 
nelFs claim of $37,000 to balance his account for his services. This is 
wholly disallowed ; not for reason of any doubt in our minds of the 
great value of Mr. BushnelPs service, which we gladly put on record, 
but simply that, as no director has been allowed anything for services 
rendered the company, we think it a bad precedent, and are unwilling, 
even in this case, to depart from the custom. 

OLIVER AMES. 

F. GORDON DEXTER. 

DAVID S. RUDDOCK. 

JOHN DUFF. 

ELISHA ATKINS. 
Boston, April 25, 1872. . OAKES AMES, 

[Rollins 17 a.] 

United States 6 per cent. 30-year bonds. 
ABSTRACT LEDGER A. 



1866. 
July 22 
Aug. 17 
Sept. 14 



To casb 

To War Department 

do 

To balance 



$55, 700 40 
19, 629 81 
44, 890 72 
25, 998, 000 00 



20, 118, 220 93 



18B6. 
Feb. 

May 

June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 



1867. 
Jan. 10 
June 18 
July 22 
Aug. 19 
. 31 

Sept. 16 

23 

Oct. 3 

Nov. 5 
Dec. 19 

1868. 
Jan. 28 
May 16 

18 
June 12 

18 
July 31 
Aug. 31 

31 
Sept. 30 



31 



Oct. 
Nov. 30 
Dec. 8 
31 
31 
31 
31 



By United States 6 per 
cent. 30-year bonds. 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 



per 



'.do 

do 

do 

By cash 

By "United States 6 
cent. 30-year bonds. 

By casb 

United States interest acc't 

By United States 6 per 
ct. 30-year bonds on band 

do 



.do 



1869. 

Jan. 31 do 

Feb. 27 do 



$640,000 00 

400, 000 00 
640, 000 00 
320, 000 00 
560, 000 00 
720, 000 00 
560, 000 00 
480, 000 00 



560, 000 00 
640, 000 00 
G40, 600 00 
9, 814 91 
560, 000 00 

22, 445 36 

87, 960 66 

560, 000 00 

560, 000 00 
320, 000 00 



957, 
960, 
960, 
960, 
960, 

2, 801, 
640, 
640, 

1,920, 
640, 
640, 

1,280, 
640, 
640, 
640, 
640, 



000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 



640, 000 00 
1. 280, 000 00 



26, 118, 220 93 



616 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



United States 6 per cent. "60-year bonds — Continued. 
ABSTRACT LEDGER B. 



To balance to credit of 
United States on 
Ledger C, present 
ledger. 



1869. 

$27, 236, 512 OOS Mar. 19 
July 31 



27,236,512 00! 



Nov. 



1870. 
ran. 10 



July 16 

.' 18 



By balance from Ledger A . 

By United States 6 per- 
cent, currency bonds on 
hand. 

do 



By 6 per cent, currency 
bonds, received this day, 
dated July 16, 1869, ac- 
count fifty-second see. 

By bonds do 

do 



$25, 998, 000 00 
640, 000 00 



114, 000 00 



163, 000 00 



320, 000 00 
1, 512 00 

27, 236, 512 00 



ABSTRACT LEDGER C. 



By balance. 



27, 236, 512 00 



United States 6 per cent 30-ycar bonds on hand. 
ABSTRACT LEDGER A. 



1866. 
Eeb. 6 
May 10 
June 30 


To United States 

do 


$640. 000 00 
400, 000 00 
640, COO 00 
320, 000 00 
560, 000 00 
720, 000 00 
560, 000 00 i 
480, 000 00 

560, 000 00 
25, 000 00 

640, 000 00 
640, 000 00 
560, 000 00 
560, 000 00 
560, 000 00 
320, 000 00 

957, 000 00 
960, OGO 00 
960, 000 00 
960, 000 00 
960, 000 00 
960, 000 00 
801, 000 00 

640, 000 00 
640, 000 00 

1, 920, 000 00 

640, 000 00 
640, 000 09 
640, 000 00 
640, 000 00 
640, 000 00 
640, 000 00 


1866. 

Eeb. 17 

19 
19 

May 10 
10 
10 
10 
10 

June 30 
30 

July 17 
17 

Aug. 13 
13 

Sept. 18 

Oct. 16 

Nov. 9 

1867. 
Jan. 10 
March 4 
June 27 
• July 1 
13 
16 
Aug. 31 
Oct, 4 

Nov. 15 
Dec. 30 

1868. 

Jan. 17 

31 

Eeb. 3 

Mav 23 

26 

27 

•28 

30 

June 16 

16 

17 

20 

22 

July 24 

Sept. 30 

Oct. 2 

3 


By United States 6 per 
cent certificates. 


$58, 000 e*> 


, do 


533,621 25 


July 16 
Aug. 13 
Sept. 18 
Oct. 16 


do 




48, 378 75 


do 




340, 80G 00 


do . 




15, 000 00 


do 

do 




20, 000 00 


Nov. 9 




9, 000 00 




do 




15,200 00 


1867. 




614, 400 00 


Jan. 9 


do 

do 


25, 600 00 


30 


To Sidney Dillon, {25 
bonds.) 

To United States 

do 


312, 800 00 


June 18 


By interest 


7, 200 00 
548, 800 00 


July 22 
Aug. 31 




11,200 00 


do 




720, 000 00 


Oct. 3 


do 




•560, 000 00 




do 




4S0, 000 00 


Dec. 19 


do . 


do 




1868. 


do 


4S5, 000 CO 


Jan. 28 


do 


65, GOO 00 


May 10 
18 


. .do 


do 


100, 000 00 


.do . 


do 


540, 000 00 


June 12 


do 


. .do 


590, 000 00 


18 


...do 


do 


50, 000 00 


July 31 


To John J. Cisco and son 
To United States 6 per 

cent 30-year bonds. 
do 


..do 


560, 000 00 


31 




350, 000 00 




do 


210, 000 00 


Aug. 31 
31 


do 

do 


560, 000 00 


do 


50, 000 00 


Sept, 30 
1868. 


...do 






do 


270, 000 00 


Oct 31 


.do 


907, 0C0 00 


Nov. 30 


do 


do 


50, 000 00 


Dec. 31 


do 


do 


500, 000 CO 


' 31 


...do .., 


do 

do 


100, 000 CO 


31 


do 


100. 000 00 


31 


.do 


do 


100, 000 00 








100, 000 00 




......do 


60, 000 CO 




do 


140, 000 00 




...do 


400, 000 00 




do -....- 


420, 000 00 






1, 920, 000 CO 




. . . do 


960, COO 00 




By John' J. Cisco and son. 


3, 441, 000 00 
100,000 00 




do , 


750, 000 00» 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



617 



United States 6 per cent. 30-year bonds on hand — Continued. 
ABSTRACT LEDGER A— Continued. 



1869. 
Jan. 31 



Feb. 27 



To United States 6 per 
cent. 30-year bonds. 
...do ..' 





1868. 




Oct. 5 




6 




26 

:nov. 3 






13 
20 






21 




23 




24 




25 




30 




Dec. 2 


$640, 000 00 


3 




5 


1, 280, 000 00 


15 




17 




18 




19 




21 




23 




24 




26 




28 


- 


29 




30 




31 




1869. 




Jan. 2 




4 




5 




7 




7 




14 




18 


A 


28 




Eeb. 1 




18 




19 




20 




24 




25 




26 




26 




26 




27 




March 3 




4 




9 




10 


25, 703, 000 00 



Ey cash . . 



By cash 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do .... 

do 

do 

By John Ponder . 



By cash 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

:::::$::::::::::::::::: 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

do 

Balance to Ledger B. 



$250, 000 00 
50, 000 00 
40, 000 00 
50, 000 00 

100, 000 00 
50, 000 00 
15, 000 00 

175, 000 00 

265, 000 00 
50, 000 00 

100, 000 00 
25, 000 00 
60, 000 00 

175, 000 00 
29, 000 00 

265, 000 00 

20, 000 00 

2, 000 00 

52, 000 00 

5, 000 00 

24, 000 00 

415, 000 00 

120, 000 00 
71, 000 00 

200, 000 00 
4, 000 00 



138, 

310, 

267, 

58, 

50, 

5, 

1, 

5, 

640, 

090, 

90, 

100, 

•220, 

97, 

80, 

405, 

150, 

20, 

100, 

512, 

220, 

130, 

205, 



000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
00 000 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 
000 00 



25, 703, 000 00 



618 



CREDIT MOBIL tER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



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CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



619 



[Rollins 17 &.] 
First-mortgage oonds. — Abstract Ledger A. 





1 




1 1867. 

Mar. 1 

i 23 

26 

1 28 

■ 28 

i April 1 

4 

i 25 

27 

May 1 

3 

! 4 

! 7 

10 

! 11 

13 

a 

17 
22 
23 

23 

4 25 
j 27 
1 29 
1 30 
j 31 
June 1 
! 3 

4 
| 5" 
i 6 
i 7 

3 

i 9 

11 

t 12 
13 

14 

15 

17 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

24 

24 

25 

26 

27 

28 

' 29 

Julv 1 

o 

5 

6 

8 
9 

io 
n 

12 

13 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
29 
30 
31 
Aug. 1 


By cash 


$278, 000 




.... ..do 


35, 000 




...do 


25,000 
72,000 




do 




do 


136,000 

25, 000 

8,000 

8,000 

8,000 




. ...do 




...do , 




do 




do 




do 


1,000 




...do 


0,000 

1,000 

1,000 

10, 000 




...do 




..do . 




do :.. 




do . 


40,000 
10,000 




do 




do 


1,000 




do 


1,000 




do .. 


6,000 




do 

do 


1,000 
8,000 




do 


2,000 




do 


1,000 




do :.... 


2,000 


• 


do 


19,000 




do 


33, 000 






18,000 




do 


11,000 




do 


14, 000 




.do 


13, 000 




do 


12, 000 




do 


16,000 




do 


8,000 




do 


15,000 




do .. 


4,000 




do 


10, 000 




do 


12,000 




do 


29,000 




do 


3,000 




do 


26,000 




do 


14, 000 




do 


5, 000 




do 


5,000 




do 


6,000 




do 


12, 000 




do 


20,000 




do 


13,000 




do . 


14, 000 




do 


1,000 




do 


39, 000 




do 


29,000 




do 


71, 000 




do 


55, 000 




do 


49, 000 




do . 


82,000 




do 


29,000 




do 


134, 000 




do 


18,000 




do 


25, 000 




do .. 


15,000 




do 


44, 000 




do 


15, 000 




do 


53, 000 




do .... 


10,000 




do 


27,000 




do 


23, 000 




do 


188, 000 




do 


63, 000 




do 


29,000 




do 


21, 000 




do 


32,000 




do 


31, 000 




do 


31, 000 




do 


19, 000 




do 


22,000 




...do .. 


23,000 




do 


25, 000 




do 


23, 000 




do 


26,000 




do ...... . 


22, 000 
26, 000 




do 



620 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 
First-mortgage boyids. — Abstract Ledger A — Continued. 







! 


1S67. 

Aug. 2 

3 

5 

6 

7 

7 

8 

9 

10 

12 

Aug. 13 

! ' 14 

15 

16 

17 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

26 

27 

28 

29 

30 

31 

Sept, 2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

9 

10 
11 
32 
13 
14 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
30 
Oct. 1 

\ 

o 

7 
•4 
9 
9 
10 
g 

14 

15 
IG 
. 17 
18 
19 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
28 
30 
31 
Nov. 1 




$45, 000 




do 


34,000 
51, 000 
20, 000 
68, 000 
75,600 
52, 000 




......do 




do 




do 












do 


22,000 
59, 000 
36, 000 
47, 000 
70, 000 
57, 000 




do 




do 




do 




do 




do 




do 


35, 000 




do 


39,000 
32, 000 
18,000 
57, 000 
54,000 




do 




do 




do 

do '.. 




do 


23,000 
41, 000 
23, 000 

26, 000 

27, 000 








do 




do 




do 




do 


16,000 
8,000 




do 






21, 000 




do 


27, 000 
54,000 




do... 




do 


26, 000 




do 


22,000 




do 


20, 000 




do 


20, 000 




do 


50,000 




do ! 


67,000 




do 


35, 000 




do 


23,000 




.'. do 


25, 000 




do ...- 


32, 300 




do 


17, 000 




do 


6,000 




do 


34, 000 




...do... 


25,000 
37, 000 




do 




do 


35, 000 




do 


33, 000 




do 


37, 000 
14, 000 




......do 


13, 000 




do 


23, 000 




.do 


33, 000 




do 


8, 000 




.. do 


10, 000 




do 


14, 000 




do 


4,000 




...do 


19,000 




do 

...do 


10, 000 
14,000 




. do .. 


65, 000 






47,000 






106, 000 


• 




17, 000 




do 


15, 000 




do 


11, 000 




...do 


7,000 




do - 


29, 000 




do 


24, 000 




...do 


6,000 




do 


11. 000 




do 


55, 000 




do 


16, 000 




. do . . . 


27, 000 




do 

do 


109, 000 
4, 000 




......do 

do 


5,000 
2, 000 




do 


12, 000 




do 

,do 


28, 000 
5,000 




do 


4,000 




4 
5 

6 


do 

do ! 

do 


10, 000 

9, 000 

34, 000 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 
First-mortgage bonds.— Abstract Ledger A— Continued. 



1868. ; 
Jan. 31 j 

Feb. 27 

28 
29 
2 



Mar. 
Aug. 



To certificates for 1st -mort- 
gage bonds. 
To cash 



.do 
.do 
.do 
.do 



$3, 777, 000 

150, 000 
50,000 

121, 000 
50, 000 
50, 000 



1869. : 
Mat. 13 | To balance to Ledger B. 



Total 23,20e, 000 



1867. 
I Nov. 7 



11 

12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
25 
26 
27 
29 
30 
Dec. 2 
3 



6 
7 
9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

16 

17 

18 

. 19 

20 

21 

23 

24 

26 

27 

28 

30 

31 

1868. 

Jan. 1st & 

31st incl. 

Jan. lst& 

31st incl. 

Feb. 31 

Mar. 31 

Apr. 30 

May 30 

30 
; June 30 
! July 30 

! Aug. 31 
! Sept. 30 
! Oct. 31 

31 
! Nov. 30 
i Dec. 31 

31 



I 

, Jan. 31 

; Feb. 28 

^19, 002, 000 ii Mar. 19 



By cash. 
do . 

do . 

do . 

do . 

do . 

do . 

do . 

do . 

do . 

do . 

do . 

do. 

do. 

do . 

do . 

do . 

do . 

...do . 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 

...do 



.do 



J By S.Dillon , 

By cash 

.....do 

do 

By certificates for lst-inort- 

gage bonds. 

Bv cash 

...■-..do 

By certificates for lst-mort- 

gage bonds. 

By cash 

do 

do 

By certificates for bonds . . . 

By cash 

do 

By certificates for lst-mort- 

gage bonds. 

By cash 

...'...do 

do 



Total 23, 200. 000 



621 



$23, 000 
62, 000 
22, 000 
22, 000 
37, 000 
16, 000 
79, 000 
26, 000 

13, 000 

25, 000 
31, 000 

26, 000 
50, 000 
34, 000 

36, 000 
24,000 

37, 000 

14, 000 
14, 000 

53, 000 
74, 000 

40, 000 
36, 000 

54, 000 
67, 000 
58, 000 

108, 000 
57, 000 

41, 000 
41, 000 
19, 000 
30, 000 
56, 000 

216, 000 

104, 000 
93, 000 
59,000 
98, 000 
83, 000 

161, 000 

105, 000 
158, 000 
126, 000 
155, 000 
172, 000 
313, 800 

5, 671, 0S0 

50, 000 

3, 240, 000 

46, 000 

86, 000 

301, 000 

842,000 

1, 476, 000 

462, 000 

185, 000 

88,000 

44, 000 

1, 907, 000 

7, 000 

64, 000 

240, 000 

86, 000 
345, 000 



622 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



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CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 629 

Boston, Massachusetts, February 6, 1873. 
H. G. Crane recalled. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Have you examined the contractor's books with the view 
of ascertaining what it cost the contractors to build that portion of the 
road covered by the Hoxie contract, extending from Omaha to the one- 
hundredth meridian ? — Answer. I have not. I have not those data here ; 
the books are in Washington. 

Q. Have you examined the contractor's books to ascertain the amount 
that it cost the contractors to build that portion of the road which is 
embraced in the Ames contract ? — A. I have. 

Q. What was the cost of the Ames contract to the contractors as ap- 
pears by the books ? — A. As appears by the books, the Ames and the 
Davis contracts are together. They are interwoven so much that we had 
to depend upon the subdivision that was made by the construction en- 
gineer to divide the two amounts between the two contracts. The total 
amount is $43,914,774.61. 

Q. In making the apportionment between the two contracts how much 
do you make the Ames contract cost? — A. Twenty-nine million two 
hundred and eighty-five thousand one hundred and forty-one dollars and 
ninety-nine cents. 

Q. How much the Davis contract ? — A. Fifteen million six hundred 
and twenty -nine thousand six hundred and thirty- two dollars and sixty- 
two cents. 

Q. Have you made up balance-sheets showing the cost of these two 
contracts to the contractors? — A. I have the balance-sheets showing 
that cost. 

Q. Will you produce them ? — A. Here they are. 

(The balance-sheets were presented and marked " Crane, No. 1," and 
"Crane, No. 2.") 

Q. You have given the whole cost to the contractors under the Ames 
and Davis contracts as $42,914,774.61; that, as I understand you, you 
derive from these balance-sheets. — A. From the two balance-sheets given; 
one the Davis, and the other the Ames. 

Q. Now explain from these balance-sheets how you make the cost 
that you have given. — A. Well, I take the items from the balance-sheets 
that belong to construction and put them together, and they make 
$42,000,000. 

Q. What do you leave out of the balance-sheets ? — A. I leave out the 
cash balance, $5,898.75; I leave out $527,302.99 Credit Mobilier debit; 
I leave out $1,687,500 profit and loss 

Q. Explain what that profit and loss item means. — A. That is the 
difference between par of the securities and the price received for them 
on sale by the contractors. I leave out the first-mortgage-bond account, 
$118,800. 

Q. Why is that left out % — A. Because it is not a part of the construc- 
tion. Five million nine hundred and twenty-four thousand three hun- 
dred dollars have been received ; $5,805,500 have been disposed of, leav- 
ing a balance of $118,800 debit to that account; that is on the Ames 
balance-sheet. The next item is stocks, Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany, $39,500. The next is dividend account, $19,298,500; allotment 
account, $1,125,000. On the Davis balance I except $3,003,000 of stock ; 
$11,778,054 special account; $11,069,800 profit and loss; $12,695.06 
Thomas Wardell 

Q. What is that for ?— A. That is draft for coal. 



630 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Five thousand four huudred and ninety-one dollars and twenty-five 
cents, chairs and spikes; $30,247.58 for fish-joints and bolts; $29,738.62 
for tools and machinery ; $15,135 for turn-tables; $1,038,505.25 for rail- 
road-iron. 

Q. According to this balance-sheet what amount of dividends and 
allotments have been made on account of this Ames contract ? — A. 
Twenty million four hundred and thirty-seven thousand five hundred 
dollars. 

Q. This item of $1,687,500 in the Ames balance-sheet for profit and 
loss, please explain that. — A. It is loss on the sale of 28,125 shares of 
stock. 

Q. What was that stock sold at % — A. On page 131 of the journal of 
the Ames contractors that item is entered as follows: "Profit and loss 
on stock-account debtor to stock due Pacific Eailroad Company for sale 
on 28,125 shares Union Pacific Eailroad stock, sold under resolution of 
trustees of July 8, 1868, $1,687,500." They were sold for $1,125,000. 

Q. Turn to the resolution referred to of July 8, 1868, and read it. — A. 
The resolution is as follows : " Mr. Bushnell offered a resolution that the 
treasurer be authorized to sell 28,125 shares of Union Pacific Eailroad 
stock at not less than 40 per cent., first offering it to the parties inter- 
ested in the contract pro rata." 

Q. In what were the dividends made ? — A. The dividends were made 
up as follows : 

1867, December, 60 per cent, bonds $2, 250, 000 

1867, December, 60 per cent, stocks 2, 250, 000 

1868, January 3, 20 per cent, bonds . - .' 50, 000 

1868, June, 40 per cent, stock 1, 500, 000 

1868, June, 60 per cent, cash 2, 250, 000 

1868, July, 75 per cent, bonds 2 ; 812, 500 

1868, July 8, 30 per cent, cash 1, 125, 000 

1868, December, 200 per cent, stock , 7, 500, 000 

Total 20, 437, 500 



Q. On what book is that account given ? — A. On the ledger of the 
contractors, page 240. 

Q. Give the allotment that is referred to on this balance-sheet. — A. 
On folio 266, trustees' ledger, allotment account : "September 3, 1868., to 
cash allotment, by resolution of the trustees of July 8, 1868, $1, 125, 000." 

Q. Now turn to the resolution of July 8, 1868, referred to in that 
entry. — A. The resolution on the record of the trustees of July 8, 1868, 
is : "Mr. Bushnell offered a resolution that we make an allotment of 30 
per cent, in cash to the parties interested in trust, payable as fast as the 
trustees receive the proceeds from the sales of stock of the Union Pacific 
Company." 

Q. Did that resolution pass ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were there any other dividends or allotments under the Ames 
contract, of which you have any knowledge f — A. No, sir. 

Q. What dividends, or allotments, were made under the Davis con- 
tract % — A. It seems there are none made at all. 

Q. In the balance-sheet appertaining to the Davis contract there is an 
item of profit and loss, $11,660,800 : explain it.— A. I find on the ledger 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 631 

of the Davis contract, page 106, the first entry January 18, 1870 : To 
sundries, $1,210,000. That item is for discount on stock and bonds 
sold stockholders. The next item of the ledger is the same date : Stock 
Union Pacific Railroad Company, $7,021,800. That item is for discount 
on $7,802,000 stock, Union Pacific Eailroad Company. February: 
Stock Union Pacific Eailroad Company, $3,436,200. That item is for 
discount on $3,818,000 stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 
The next item is January, 1871 — $1,800 — and is for discount on twenty 
shares of stock Union Pacific Company. 

Q. State whether the books of the trustees show to whom these se- 
curities were disposed of, and at what rate ; and, if so, where is it to be 
found ? — A. The books show to what parties these securities were sold, 
and the details will be found on the journal of the Davis contract, folio 
101. The entry is : " Profit and loss on $1,375,000 stock of Union Pa- 
cific Eailroad Company ; v and the parties to whom that stock went are 
named on folio 105. 

(A copy marked " Crane, 3," hereto attached.) 
• Q. Explain what appears on page 105. — A. On the same page is a 
list of first-mortgage and land-grant bonds of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company, and to whom sold, and the stock. The party buying an 
amount of first-mortgage and land-grant bonds, equal amounts of each, 
received two and a half times the par value of those two securities in 
stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company at par. 

Q. What does page 101 show ? — A. It shows a charge of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company of $550,000, and also shows where the Davis 
contractors got the money. The next page on the journal, 106, shows 
that the Union Pacific Eailroad Company were paid $3,120,800 in cash, 
and also shows where the Davis contractors received the money. Folio 
111 shows the sale by the Davis contractors to sundry parties of income- 
bonds and stock, amounting, in the aggregate, to $3,120,800. That en- 
try can be found on journal, pages 111, 112, 113, 111, 115. 

Q. What is the whole amount of income-bonds sold? — A. There were 
$5,811,000 of bonds sold by the company to the trustees at 60 cents. 

Q. At what rate were they sold by the trustees ? — A. At 80. 

Q. How much stock was distributed to the purchasers of these in- 
come-bonds at the time thev were sold by the trustees? — A. Double the 
amount of the par of the bonds, $11,622,000. On folio 121 of the Davis 
Journal is a list of parties to whom income-bonds were sold and stocks 
delivered. 

Q. What is the whole amount of bonds sold there ? — A. One million 
nine hundred and nine thousand dollars. 

Q. At what rate ? — A. At 80, with a bonus of double the amount of 
stock. 

Q. When you use the word " bonus" there do you mean that for every 
dollar of bonds sold at 80 there were two dollars of stock distributed? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. From the manner in which this has been done, as is shown by 
these books, what did this stock cost the parties to whom it was dis- 
tributed in the manner that has been described ? — A. It did not cost 
them anything. They got it in consideration of their taking the bonds 
at the fixed price. They received the stock in addition thereto. 

Q. The trustees were trustees for stockholders under these con- 
tracts ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. As this transaction first occurred they paid 60 cents a dollar for 
the bonds ; they then let the stockholders for whom they held it in 



632 CREDIT M0B1LIER AND UNION PACIFIC EAILROAD. 

trust have it at 80 cents and divided this amount of stock ? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Is there anything on these books that will enable you now to in- 
form the committee as to the cost of the fifty-eight miles west of the 
one-hundredth meridian that was accepted and constructed under the 
Boomer contract, or with Gesner as agent?— A. No, sir; there is no 
division. 

Q. Is there anything on the books of the company that will enable 
you to inform the committee as to the cost of the one hundred and 
thirty-eight miles of road that had been completed and accepted by the 
Government at the time the Oakes Ames contract was made f — A. There 
is not. 

Q. I refer to the one hundred and thirty-eight miles west of the one- 
hundredth meridian. — A. There is not. 

Q. Now state what the Oakes Ames contract cost the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company. — A. That is entirely out of my power. 

Q. Can you state what the Davis contract cost the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company *? — A. I can state what the Oakes Ames contract 
received from the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. They received 
$57,140,102.94, as shown by the books ; and the Davis contract received 
$23,431,768.10 from the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. 

Q. Have these books been balanced so as to show that the account is 
closed — that is, do the books indicate that the Oakes Ames contract has 
been settled with the Union Pacific Eailroad Company % — A. No, sir. 

Q. Is there anything indicating that there is anything due from the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company on the Ames contract I — A. Nothing 
from the books. I do not think they have .ever charged up their con- 
tract. The whole thing shows that the net profits in stock and bonds 
at par as divided are, on the Ames contract, $29,854,960.95 ; on the 
Davis, $7,802,135.48. 

Q. Does it appear from the books that any amount was charged to 
Ames or to the Ames contract on account of discounts on the securi- 
ties, first-mortgage bonds and Government bonds ? — A. Yes, sir ; there 
is an account here of losses on securities made up by the Ames con- 
tractors and the company. 

Q. What is the amount ! — A. It is found on page 260 of the Ames 
trustees' ledger. The balance of that account is $516,580.28. 

Q. How much, if any, did the securities lack of building the road em- 
braced in the Ames contract? — A. I do not know, sir. I have nothing 
on my books to tell what the securities netted the company. 

Q. Is there anything charged up to the Davis contract on account of 
the loss on securities ? — A. No, sir. 

[Crane No. l.J 

Ames contract — Balance-sheet, January 1, 1871. 

18 Railroad-iron $7,454,893 90 

20 Chairs and spikes 363,245 80 

32 Fish-joints and bolts 276,848 89 

40 N, A. Gessner 125,000 00 

66 Transportation, (general account) 2, 540, 912 93 

70 W. C. Lindsay 3.791,061 15 

84 Cash 5,898 75 

94 Expense account 43, 789 02 

100 Turn-tables t 17,6/9 73 

110 Telegraph account 37, 357 39 

151 Credit Mobilier of America 527,302 99 

174 H. C. Crane, (special account) 21, 750 00 

184 Cars and axles 1,395,338 72 

90 Tools and machinery 184, 489 31 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



• OO 



193 Union Pacific Railroad Company 

213 Locomotive account §1, 545, 443 23 

218 ProfitandLoss 1,687,500 00 

220 First-mortgage bonds Union Pacific Railroad 118,800 00 

230 Stock Union Pacific Railroad Company 39, 500 00 

240 Dividend account , 19,298,500 00 



$57, 140, 102 94 



260 Discount and interest 
266 Allotment account 



516,580 28 

1,125,000 00 

277 Win. P. Kennedy, cash 15,144,971 03 



22 Roadway and track 

24 Bridging 

26 Shops and fixtures . . 
28 Buildings 



200,233 46 

154,300 17 

449,587 87 

74, 118 32 



57, 140, 102 94 57, 140, 102 94 



[Crane No. 2.J 
Balance-sheet — Davis contract, January 1, 1871. 

Union Pacific Railroad Company $23,431,768 10 

Cars and axles „ $320, 982 03 

Locomotives 192, 213 73 

Cash 

Stock, Union Pacific Railroad Company 3, 003, 000 00 

Expense account 16, 868 92 

Chairs and spikes 

Fish-joints and bolts 

Union Pacific Railroad special 11, 778 54 

Tools and machinerv 

Thomas Wardell ..." 12,695 06 

Turn-table 

Railroad-iron account 

W.P. Kennedy,cash 9,225,403 64 

Profit and loss 11,669,800 00 

Income- bonds 100, 000 00 



1,856 12 



5,491 25 
30,247 58 

""29," 738*62 

~"i5,"i35"6o 
1, 038, 505 25 



24, 552, 741 92 24, 552, 741 92 



[Crane No. 3.] 
Statement of bonds sold by trustees, 1870. 



To whom. 



First 



Land 
grant. 



Stock. 



Amount 
received. 



Williams & Guion . 

W. B. Bristol 

W.M.White 

Joseph B. Pigot 

Legrand Lockwood 

Henry Hotchkiss 

Henry Trowbridge. 

W.H.Macy 

Thomas M. Stetson . 

T. Nickerson 

G.P.Smith , 

Glidden & Williams 
Rowland G. Hazard 

C.S.Bushnell 

J. B. Johnson 

Sidney Dillon 

James Brooks 

John B. Alley 

John J. Cisco 



$3, 000 
1,000 
5,000 
3, 000 
8,000 
3,000 
1,000 
5,000 
2,000 

12, 000 
18, 000 
14, 000 
75, 000 
92, 000 
75, 000 

13, 000 
1,000 
9, 000 
5,000 



$3, 000 
1, 000 
5,000 
3,000 
8,000 
3,000 
1,000 
5,000 
2,000 

12, 000 
18, 000 
14, 000 
75, 000 
92, 000 

5, 000 

13, 000 
1,000 
9,000 
5,000 



$15, 000 

5,000 

25, 000 

15, 000 

40, 000 

15, 000 

5,000 

25, 000 

10, 000 

60, 000 

90, 000 

70, 000 

375, 000 

460, 000 

25, 000 

65, 000 

5, 000 

45, 000 

25, 000 



$6, 000 

2, 000 

10, 000 

6,000 

16, 000 

6, 000 

2,000 

10, 000 

4,000 

24, 000 

36, 000 

28, 000 

150, 000 

184, 000 

10, 000 

26, 000 

2, 000 

18, 000 

10, 000 



275, 000 



000 



1,375,000 



550, 000 



634 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



[Crane No. 4.] 
Income-bonds and stocJc sold by trustees. 



Gamalial Bradford 

A. Hobart. jr 

J. Bardwell .. 

Thomas Mckerson 

H. &H. Gilbert 

W. B. Stevens 

Thomas M. Stetson 

F. Mckerson 

Isaac Thatcher 

H. A. and B. E. Bobbins 

J. B. Johnston & Co 

F. W. Andrews 

W. H. Macy 

J. E. Williams, account B. G. Hazard 

Page, B., & Co., account Lambard 

F. W. Andrews 

Sidney Dillon 

G.G.Gray , 

Williams & Guion 

Beards & Curnmiugs 

Henry Hotchkiss 

J. B. Alley 

Ebenezer Cook 

Thomas Lord 

George Opdvke 

G.G.Gray: 

.James Sturgis, account G. & Williams 

Oliver Ames 

H. Gilbert 

H. J. Gilbert .. .■ 

C. C. Waite 

B. E. Ham . . 

J. J. Cisco & Son . .' 

Marquand & Sen, account G. & Williams. 
Oakes Ames 

Do 

A. A. Low 

H. W. Gray .-... 

Samuel Hooper 

B. G. Hazard 

E. H. Trowbridge 

H. Trowbridge 

H. S. McComb *...,. 

E. W. Gilmore 

T osiah Bardweil 

B. F. Ham 

M. Zebrouske 

Glidden & Williams 

B.E.Ham 

E. Atkins 

W. B. Stevens 

J. Nickerson 

Oliver Ames 

B.E.Bates 

B. F.Ham •. 

E. B. Enger. account Oliver Ames 

O. S. Chapman 

H. A. &B. E. Bobbins 

Oakes Ames 

E. H. Baker 

B. G. Hazard 

G. G. Gray 

Oakes Ames 

G.M.Dodge 

Sidney Dillon 

George Opdyke 

J. Richardson 

Thomas Hawley 

S. H. Fessenden 

H.W.Gray..... 

Oakes Ames 

John Duff 

E. W. Gilmore 

C. C. Waite 

O. S. Chapman 

J. Richardson 

R,G. Hazard 



Bonds. 


1 
Stock. 


$16, 000 


$32, 000 


2,000 


4,000 


40, 000 


80, 000 


8,000 


16, 000 


14, 000 


28, 000 


8,000 


16, 000 


9,000 


18, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


14, 000 


28, 000 


62, 000 


124, 000 


30, 000 


60, 000 


6,000 


12, 000 


20, 000 


40, 000 


12, 000 


24, 000 


8, 000 


16, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


50, 000 


100, 000 


5,000 


10, 000 


12, 000 


24, 000 


12, 000 


24, 000 


22, 000 


44, 000 


14, 000 


28, 000 


12, 000 


24, 000 


4,000 


8,000 


8,000 


16, 000 


10,000 


20, 000 


5,000 


10, 000 


135, 000 


270, 000 


7,000 


14, 000 


7,000 


14, 000 


4,000 


8,000 


2.000 


4,000 


30, 000 


60, 000 


12, 000 


24, 000 


338, 000 


676, 000 


25, 000 


50, 000 


16,000 


32, 000 


3,000 


6,000 


60, 000 


120, 000 


40, 000 


80, 000 


8,000 


16, 000 


7,000 


14, 000 


126, 000 


252, 000 


8,000 


16, 000 


4,000 


8,000 


2,000 


4.000 


14, 000 


28, 000 


55, 000 


110, 000 
4,000 


2,000 


72, 000 


144, 000 


20, 000 


40, 000 


28, 000 


56, 000 


100, 000 


200, 000 


75, 000 


150, 000 


2,000 


4,000 


3,000 


6,000 


52, 000 


104, 000 


20, 000 


40, 000 


125, 000 


250, 000 


102, 000 


204, 000 


5, 000 


10, 000 


5,000 


10, 000 


77, 000 


154, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


20, 000 


40, 000 


50, 000 


100, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


3,000 


6,000 


4,000 


8,000 


7,000 


14,000 


10. 000 


20, 000 


134,000 


268,000 


5,009 


10, 000 


4,000 


8,000 


- 10, 000 


20, 000 


3,000 


6,000 


30, 000 


.60, 000 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Income-bonds and stock sold by trustees — Continued. 



635 



Bonds. 



Stock. 



Amount 
received. 



Eeads & Caramings 

Samuel Hooper 

O. Ames & Sons 

C. A. Lambard 

J. Xickerson 

G.G.Gray 

J. Bichardson 

F. jS t ickerson 

Stevens, Amory &. Co., account J. Bardwell. 

B. E. Bates, trustee 

Henry Trowbridge 

J. Bardwell, trustee 

S. H. Fessenden 

John Poudir, account Oliver Ames 

John Poudir, account C. S. Bushnell 

Oliver Ames 

G.G.Gray 

Judge Emott, account L. Lockwood 

Isaac Thatcher 

P. Adams Ames, account C. A. Lambard 

G.G.Gray 

B. F. Ham, account Lockwood 

F. "W. Andrews 

D. Foster, account J. Bardwell 

A. C. Harding, account Oliver Ames 

H.T.Blake 

J. B. Johnston, account Bushnell 

Legrand Lockwood 

Thomas Mckerson 

Henry In galls, account G. A. Miller 

David Jones 

G. Ames, account Legrand Lockwood 

Do do 

Oliver Ames 

Do 

G. Ames, account Legrand Lockwood 

H. "Williams, account Legrand Lockwood 

John Duff 

E.Atkins 

Glidden & "Williams 

C. A. Lambard 

G. Ames, account Legrand Lockwood 

T. "W. Andrews, account Bardwell 

E.W.Gilmore 

P. Adams Ames, account C. A. Lambard 

J. B. Alley 

J. B. Alley, account somebody 

J. Iticharilson, account Lockwood 

O. C. Smith, account Lockwood. . . .♦. 

Sidney Dillon 

Oliver Ames 

C.C.Waite 

Beards & Cummings '.. 

C. H. McCormick .". 

Oakes Ames 

F. Nickerson 

George Opdyke 

Glidden fc Williams 

Glidden <fc "Williams, account Lambard 

B. F. Hani, account Lockwood 

G.G.Gray 

C. A. Lambard 

C. A. Lambard, account Lockwood 

J. Bardwell 

Thomas Hawley 

C. A. Lambard 

James Brooks 

C. S. Bushnell 

George Opdyke 

Do 

G.G.Gray 

I.N.Smith 

Do 

P. G. Hazard 

B. F. Ham, account J. M. Smith 

T. S. Hodges, account Bushnell 

P. G. Hazard 

T. H. Perkins, account J. Bardwell 



$12, 000 


$24, 000 


52, 000 


104, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


10,000 


20, 000 


28, 000 


56, 000 


5,000 


10, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


14, 000 


28, 000 


20, 000 


40, 000 


6, 000 


12, 000 


3, 000 


6,000 


20, 000 


40, 000 


4,000 


8, 00.0 


5,000 


10, 000 


5, 000 


10, 000 


17, 000 


34, 000 


5,000 


10, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


6,000 


12, 000 


12, 000 


24, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


4,000 


8,000 


1,000 


2,000 


100, 000 


2C0, 000 


5,000 


10, 000 


8,000 


16, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


56, 000 


112, 000 


5,000 


10, 000 


3,000 


6,000 


30, 000 


60, 000 


30, 000 


60, 000 


5.000 


10, 000 


5,000 


10, 000 


43, 000 


86, 000 


20, 000 


40, 000 


6,000 


12, 000 


3,000 


6,000 


5, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


40, 000 


6,000 


12, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


36, 000 


72, 000 


18, 000 


36, 000 


5,000 


10, 000 


1,000 


2, 000 


80, 000 


160, 000 


275, 000 


550, 000 


4,000 


8,000 


12, 000 


24, 000 


142, 000 


284, 000 


61, 000 


122, 000 


14, 000 


28, 000 


9, 000 . 


18, 000 


6,000 


12, 000 


41, 000 


82, 000 


5,000 


10, 000 


30, 000 


60, 000 


5,000 


10, 000 


1,000 


2,000 


8,000 


16, 000 


4,000 


8,000 


14, 000 


28, 000 


22, 000 


44, 000 


50, 000 


100, 000 


4,000 


8,000 


3,000 


6,000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


10, 000 


20, 000 


1,000 


2, 000 


28, 000 


56, 000 


9,000 


18, 000 


1,000 


2,000 


5,000 


10, 000 


4,000 


8,000 



$9, 600 

41, 600 

8,000 

8,000 

22, 400 

4,000 

8,000 

11, 200 

16, 0U0 

4,800 

2,400 

16, 000 

3,200 

4,000 

4, 000 

13, 600 
4,000 
8,000 
8,000 
8,000 
8,000 
4,800 
9,600 
8, 000 
3,200 

800 

eo, eoo 

4,000 
6,400 
8,000 

44, 600 
4,000 
2,400 

24, 000 

24, 000 
4,000 
4,000 

34, 400 

16, 000 
4,800 
2,400 
4,000 

16, 000 
4,800 
8,000 

28, 800 

14, 400 
4,000 

800 

64, 000 

220, OOO 

3, 200 

9,600 

113, 600 

48, 800 

11, 200 

7,200 

4,800 

32, 800 

4,000 

24, 000 

4,000 

800 

6,400 

3,200 

11,200 

17, 600 

40, 000 

3,200 

2,400 

8,000 

8,000 

800 

22, 400 

7,200 

800 

4,000 

3,200 



638 CREDIT MOBILIER A2s T D UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Boston, Massachusetts, February 6, 1S73. 
B. F. Ham recalled. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Has there been any sum charged to the Oakes Ames con- 
tract, or the Davis contract, on account of the difference between the 
amount realized on the first-mortgage bonds and par ! — Answer. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. How much ?— A. That I cannot tell. 

Q. Has there been any such sum charged on account of the difference 
between the amount realized on the Government bonds and par ? — A. 
Yes, sir ; both of those things were charged up. 

Q. Do you know what these securities sold for ? — A. The Govern- 
ment bonds were sold at par, and a large amount of Union Pacific bonds 
were sold previously, which did not bring so much ; and a large amount 
subsequent to this, which did not bring so much as ninety. 

Q. What is the whole amount of Government bonds received on the 
Oakes Ames contract ! — A. The Oakes Ames contractors did not receive 
any. The company sold them for cash and paid the cash over to the 
contractors. 

Q. You cannot tell what the company realized from it % — A. K"o, sir ; 
I cannot. 

The following statements were presented by the witness and put in 
evidence : 

[Ham 1.] 

Statement of the cost of the Union Pacific Railroad to the Union Pacific 

Railroad Company. 

Engineering $890,865 69 

Right of way 96, 787 43 

Amount paid under Hoxie contract 12, 974, 416 24 

Amount paid to trustees under Ames and Davis contract 80, 571, 871 04 

Station-buildings 730.387 66 

Shops and tools 398,429 35 

Equipment 1,460,676 20 

Snow-sheds 293,570 04 

Roadway and track 95, 399 17 

Bridging 124,047 59 

Fencing 249,428 46 

Telegraph 53.736 40 

Express outfit 12,318 71 

Expense » - 421,967 57 

Government commissioners 136*037 40 

Government directors 52, 592 73 

Legal expenses 235, 009 32 

United States revenue stamps 1 50, 649 54 

Discount and interest 2, 581, ISO 09 

Preliminary expense 487, 229 93 

Cedar Rapids and Missouri River Railroad 75, 000 00 

Interest on bonds paid during construction 4, 000, 000 00 

Losses on $27,237,000 first-mortgage bonds 3, 494, 991 23 

Losses on 10,400,000 land-grant bonds 4, 336, 007 96 

Losses on 27,237,000 Government bonds 91, 348 72 

Losses on 9,268,000 income-bonds .'. 2,818,400 00 

116, 732, 34S 52 
Deduct amount received from Central Pacific Railroad- Company for* 

road sold them 2,698,620 00 

114, 033, 728 52 



CREDIT M0BTL1ER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 637 

[Ham 2.] 
Statement of the actual cost of the Union Pacific Railroad. 

Engineering $890,865 69 

Right of way 96,787 48 

Actual cost of building road under Hoxie contract 7, 806, 183 33 

Actual cost of building road under Ames and Davis contracts 42, 914, 774 61 

Station-buildings 730,387 66 

Shops and tools 398,429 35 

Equipment 1,460,676 20 

Snow-sheds 293,570 04 

Roadway and track 95, 399 17 

Bridging 124,047 59 

Fencing 249,428 46 

Telegraph 53,736 40 

Express outfit 12,318 71 

Expense 421,967 57 

Government commissioners 136, 037 40 

Government directors 52,592 73 

Legal expenses - 235,009 32 

United States revenue stamps 50, 649 54 

Discount and interest 2,581,180 09 

Preliminary expenses 487, 229 93 

Cedar Rapids and Missouri River Railroad 75, 000 00 

Interest on bonds paid during construction 4, 000, 000 00 

Losses on $27,237,000 first-mortgage bonds 3, 494, 991 23 

Losses on $10,400,000 land-grant bonds 4,336,007 96 

Losses on $27,237,000 Government bonds 91, 348 72 

Losses on $9,268,000 income-bonds 2,818,400 00 

73, 907, 019 18 
Deduct amount received from Central Pacific Railroad Company for 

road sold them 2,698,620 00 

71,208,399 18 



[Ham 3.] 

[Circular.] 

Boston, Septemler 22, 1869. 
To the stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad Company: 

The trustees having completed the work of construction and equip- 
ment of the Union Pacific Railroad, and having received a payment for 
the same in 10 per cent, income-bonds, payable September 1, 1871, or 
within five years, at the option of the company, also stock of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company, and being desirous of closing up the trust, 
and paying up all outstanding liabilities, propose to each party inter- 
ested in the trust the following terms : 

For two of said income-bonds of $1,000 each, and forty shares of the 
stock of the company, the trustees will take $1,600, cash, and as agents 
for the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and by way of compromise and 
adjustment, will also give the party taking said'bonds, one other of said 
bonds of $1,000, upon the surrender to us, as such agents, of a certificate 
or agreement of July 3, 1868, by which the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany promise to deliver, when practicable, one of its first-mortgage 
bonds. Payment for the said bonds will be received as follows : 

Fifteen (15) per cent, on the 1st of October j ten (10) cent, on the 
15th of October ; ten (10) per cent, on the 1st of November ; ten (10) 
per cent, on the 15th of November ; ten (10) per cent, on the 1st of De- 



638 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

ceinber; ten (10) per cent, on the 15th of December; ten (10) per cent, 
on the 1st of January; ten (10) per cent, on the 15th of January; and 
fifteen (15) per cent, on the 15th of February. 

Any shareholder notifying the subscriber on or before the 1st day of 
October will be entitled to his pro rata portion of these securities. 

Any stockholder failing to take his portion of the securities in thirty 
days from the date of this circular will forfeit his right thereto, and 
said securities will be divided pro rata to those stockholders who are 
willing to take them. 

By order of the trustees. 

JOHN. A. KICE, 
Assistant Treasurer Trustees. 



Boston, Massachusetts, February 7, 1873. 

E. H. Eollins recalled. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Furnish a list of the officers and directors from the organi- 
zation of the road down to this time. — Answer. Here it is. (Presented 
in evidence, and marked " Eollins 7 and 8.") 

Q. What action was taken by the board in relation to the disposition 
of the land-grant bonds % — A. On page 17 of the records of the stock- 
holders and directors, at a meeting of the board of directors held in 
Boston, April 9, 1869, the following resolutions were adopted : 

"Resolved, That a special committee of five be appointed by the chair, 
with full power to provide means for the payment of the debts of the 
company and building and equipping the road by the sale and disposal 
of ten millions of dollars each of the first-mortgage bonds and of the 
land-grant bonds of the company; the former at not less than 85 per 
cent, of the par value thereof, with accrued interest, and the latter at 
not less than 55 per cent, of the par value thereof, with accrued interest ; 
that said committee offer to the shareholders of the company the said 
bonds at the prices above named in proportion to the number of shares 
held by them respectively, and that the bonds not taken by those en- 
titled shall be allotted pro rata to such shareholders as shall file with 
their acceptance of their shares a consent to accept pay for the same at 
the price offered. Such bonds as shall not be taken and paid for by the 
shareholders may be sold by the committee at public or private sale, 
but not for a less price than above named. 

"Resolved, That such committee have full power to provide details 
for carrying into effect the above resolution, and to execute alljiecessary 
assignments, agreements, and papers for and in the name of the com- 
pany. The said company hereby ratify and approve their said acts. 

"The president appointed as committee, William T. Glidden, Oakes 
Ames, 0. S. Bushnell, James Brooks, Benjamin E. Bates." 

Q. Were the land grant bonds disposed of pursuant to that action of 
the board ? — A. They were ; $8,263,000 were disposed of, in pursuance 
of the resolution, at 55. 

Q. What was done with the balance '?— A. Two million one hundred 
and thirty-six thousand dollars land-grant bonds were sold to C. S. 
Bushnell at 70. 

Q. Can you tell when the sale was made to Bushnell ! — A. They were 
sold to Bushnell agreeably to the resolution of the executive committee 
passed January 19, 1871. and heretofore given in my testimony, (Feb- 
ruary 6, 1873.) 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 639 

Q. Can you furnish, a statement of the persons who received the 
8,203 bonds that you have mentioned as having been disposed of by the 
company at 55 cents ? — A. They were delivered to this committee of 
five. 1 think that we may be able to furnish a detailed statement 
showing to whom they were actually delivered. 

Q. Will you furnish such a statement ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was there any action taken by the board, and, if so, when, in 
relation to the settlement of the unsettled accounts of Mr. Bushnell? — 
A. At a meeting of the board held at Boston, March 5, 1872, the follow- 
ing resolution was adopted : 

" Resolved, That the unsettled accounts between this company and C. 
S. Bushnell be referred to a committee consisting of Oliver Ames, Oakes 
Ames, John Duff, F. Gordon Dexter, Elisha Atkins, David J. Rud- 
dock, for audit and final settlement; and that they are hereby author- 
ized to take into consideration the services of said Bushnell, and the 
circumstances attending the incurring of the alleged indebtedness of 
the said Bushnell ; and the said committee are hereby instructed to 
make a full report to this board in writing, of the settlement, with their 
reasons therefor, such report to be engrossed on the records of this com- 
pany, the said settlement to be fully completed by the 1st day of May, 
1872." 

Q. Did that committee make a report? — A. They did. 

Q. Is it recorded ? — A. It is. 

Q. Where will it be found ! — A. On page 115 of the records. 

Q. What record is that ? — A. The record of the stockholders and di- 
rectors. 

Q. Will you furnish a copy to be made an exhibit in your testi- 
mony? — A. I will. (Marked " Rollins 16," and submitted in testimony.) 

Q. Have you lists of stockholders for 1870, 1871, and 1872?— A. I 
have, and submit them. Also a list for 1863. (Marked a Rollins 9, 10, 
11, 12.") 

Q. State what amount was realized by the company 
from each class of bonds issued and received. — A. It 
appears from the books that the whole number of first- 
mortgage bonds issued and disposed of was $27, 213, 000 00 

J^pss on same 3, 494, 991 23 

Making the net proceeds 23, 718, 008 77 

Land-grant bonds issued $10, 400, 000 00 

Loss on same 4, 336, 007 96 

Making the net proceeds for the sale of land- 
grant bonds 6, 063, 992 04 

Government bonds, whole amount received $27, 236, 512 00 

Loss on same 91, 348 72 

Making the net proceeds , 27, 145, 163 28 

Income bonds, whole amount issued and disposed of . $9, 355, 000 00 
Loss on same 2,818,400 00 

Making the net proceeds . 6, 536, 600 00 



640 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Can you furnish a detailed statement of the dates of the sales of 
these various bonds and amounts sold at the time of sale respectively ? — 
A. I think I can. 

Q. Will you furnish a statement to the committee ? — A. I will, if it is 
possible. 



Boston, Massachusetts, February 7, 1873. 

B. F. Ham recalled. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Have you examined the books of the Union Pacific Bail- 
road Company to ascertain the cost to that company of the road built 
under the Hoxie contract, from Omaha to the one hundredth merid- 
ian ? — Answer. Yes, sir. 

Q : What was the cost ? — A. Twelve million nine hundred and seventy- 
four thousand four hundred and sixteen dollars and twenty-four cents. 

Q. W T hat amount, if any, of that is yet unpaid? — A. One million 
nine hundred and ninety-four thousand seven hundred and sixty-nine 
dollars and ninety-six cents. 

Q. Does the amount which you have given as the cost of the Hoxie 
contract to the railroad company embrace the two-million note which 
has been spoken of before in the testimony? — A. It embraces this 
$1,994,769. 

Q. Was the two-million note given on account of this $1,994,709 ? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Have you examined the contractors' books for the purpose of ascer- 
taining the cost of the Hoxie contract to the contractors ? — A. I have 
examined the Credit Mobilier books; $7,806,183.33. 

Q. Can you give the cost, from the books of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company, or from any other source, of the first fifty-eight miles wesc of 
one hundredth meridian? — A. I cannot. 

Q. Was there ever any adjustment of profits on that fifty-eight miles 
after the Oakes Ames contract was made with the Credit Mobilier ? — 
A. Not to my knowledge. 

Q. Was there ever any settlement with the Credit Mobilier with ref- 
erence to these fifty- eight miles ?— A. No, sir. 

Q. Was there ever any sum paid to the Credit Mobilier on account of 
these fifty-eight miles?— A. There was $1,104,000 paid to the Credit 
Mobilier on account of its interest in the Ames contract. 
" Q. What interest did the Credit Mobilier have in the Ames contract? — 
A. They guaranteed the contract and were to receive 2J per cent, for 
advances made, and then were to have the profits on these fifty-eight 
miles. 

■ Q. Were they to have the profits on the fifty-eight miles in addition 
to the 2 J per cent. ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What did the 2^ per cent, amount to ? — A. It has never been made 
up. 

Q. What was the $1,104,000 paid for?— A. I do not know; it was 
simply paid on account. 

Q. Is there any mode by which the profits on this fifty-eight miles 
can be ascertained ? — A. Not that I know of; I am not capable of mak- 
ing it up. 

Q. Upon what is that 2J per cent, to be calculated? — A. I should 
have to get the assignment of the contract. That is all I can tell, just 
what the contract reads. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 641 

Q. What amount was to be advanced by the Credit Mobilier !■ — A. 
That I cannot tell. 

Q, What amount was advanced by the Credit Mobilier on account of 
this Ames contract J — A. Five hundred and seventy-six thousand six 
hundred and ninety-seven dollars and one cent. 

Q. That was the whole amount advanced ! — A. That was the balance 
of the account. I will give you the whole amount advanced, $72.3,006.80. 

Q. That is the amount advanced by the Credit Mobilier on this con- 
tract ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. If the $1,104,000 is a settlement of accounts between the Credit 
Mobilier and these trustees under the Ames contract, then the differ- 
ence between 2J per cent, on the amount that you have given and the 
$1,101,000 would represent the profits on the fifty-eight miles, would it 
not I — A. The whole question commences with an "if." 

Q. I wish simply to get at that idea. — A. You would only get what 
might be my opinion. I have no opinion about it. I have nothing to 
do with it except as a clerk. The whole matter might be determined in 
a different manner when it comes to a settlement. 

Q. I find in the Oakes Ames contract this provision, " And this con- 
veyance and transfer is made upon the further trust and condition, that 
the trustees shall adjust and pay over to the Credit Mobilier of America 
such portion of the net profits of the work done and materials furnished 
on the first hundred miles west of the one hundredth meridian as was 
done and performed prior to the 1st January, 1867." Was that adjust- 
ment ever made? — A. No, sir, it was not ; not to my knowledge. 

Q. Do you know what was the cost of the first one hundred and 
thirty-eight miles west of the one hundredth meridian up to the time 
the Oakes Ames contract had been made ? — A. No, sir ; I do not. 

Q. Is there any mode by which those profits can be ascertained ? — A. 
I am not capable of making it up myself. 

Q. Is there anything on the books of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany that will show the cost of the one hundred and thirty-eight miles 
up to the time the Oakes Ames contract was let ? — A. I do not think 
there is. 

Q. Has any amount been charged to the Ames contract on account of 
the discount on securities ; and, if so, what amount ? — A. Yes, sir ; 
the trustees' books show, on first-mortgage and Government bonds, 
$517,410.08. • 

Q. Is there any amount charged to the .Davis contract on account of 
the discount on securities f — A. No, sir. 

Q. What amount was realized on the sales of these bonds that you 
have made? — A. I will furnish you a statement. (Statement put in 
evidence and marked " Ham \?) 

Q. Do the books show any amount of stock subscribed to make up the 
difference between the amount for which bonds were sold and the 
cost of the road under the Ames contract ? A. — The assignees of this 
contract subscribed to the capital stock according to the terms of the 
contract. 

Q. Y/hat amount did they subscribe, and when ? — A. I cannot distin- 
guish between one contract and another in giving you the subscriptions. 

Q. W T hat amount was subscribed on account of the Ames and Davis 
contracts conjointly ?— A. January 4,1868, $2,296,000; June 17, 1868, 
$1,500,000; July 3, 1868, $2,500,000; July 9, 1868, 300,000 ; December 
30, 186fc, $7,500,000 ; February 27, 1869, $4,000,000 ; October 19, 1869, 
$1,000,000 ; November 3, 1869, $1,000,000 ; November 26, 1869, $1,000,- 
000; December 18, 1869, $1,000,000; January 11, 1870, $1,000,000; 
41 C M 



642 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

January 25, 1870, $1,000,000 ; February 11, 1870, $2,000,000; February 
18, 1870, 81,000,000; July 29, 1870, $3,000,000; making $30,096,000; I 
wish to qualify this statement by saying that some of this stock may 
not have been subscribed on account of these contracts. 

Q. How much of it ? — A. I cannot say how much. 

Q. If any of it was not subscribed on account of this contract, on 
what account was it subscribed % — A. On account of the money actually 
paid in. 

Q. By whom were these subscriptions made ? — A. By H. O. Grane, 
assistant treasurer, and J. A. Eice, assistant treasurer. 

Q. When you say the money was actually paid, did these trustees 
pay over the money or did they use a check % — A. I mean to say that 
Mr. John A. Bice had money to his credit on the books of the Union 
Pacific Bailroad Company independent of the contract money that the 
company had received at different times from sales of bonds. 

Q. Did he get a check from the company? — A. I suppose the officers 
of the company can produce the checks if wanted. I was not an officer 
and do not know how the transaction occurred. I suppose the checks 
were drawn. 

Q. Drawn by the Union Pacific Bailroad Company, passed over to 
the parties subscribing, and the check turned back in payment of sub- 
scription ? — A. T presume so, but do not know. 

Q. From what source were the moneys derived ? — A. From sales ot 
bonds by Mr. Bice. 

Q. On what account was this money paid over to the trustees 1 — A. 
Some of it was paid over to the trustees on account of this money re- 
ceived ; some on account of the contract. 

Q. Did the trustees have no money except what was derived from the 
contract 1 ? — A. They had money which was derived from the sales of 
these bonds and stock. 

Q. On what account did they give the bonds and stocks ? — A. They 
took the bonds on account of the contract. 

Q. The whole thing arose out of the contract itself? — A. To be sare, 
in a certain sense, it arose out of it. The history of the transaction is, 
that the company found itself with a large floating debt which they 
must wipe out in some way or other, and they sold these securities to 
the trustees, and the trustees sold them to the stockholders, and they 
sold a portion, and the other portion was issued according to the terms 
of the contract. 

Q. Did the company sell any stock? — A. No, sir; it simply took sub- 
scriptions for stock. 

Q. When subscriptions were made and paid in money by the trustees, 
from what source did the trustees get the money ? — A. From sales of the 
securities, stocks, and bonds. 

Q. On what account did they get the stocks and bonds that they 
sold? — A. Some of them they got from this money, and some on account 
of the contract. 

Q. Did these trustees ever have any bonds or stocks that they got in 
any other way except on account of the contract ? — A. O, yes, to be 
sure. 

Q. Where did they get them ? — A. They got them from the money. I 
will tell you how the tiling appears. They "first had four millions of 
stock that they got on the account of the contract, and that they had 
on hand. They purchased some bonds from the company on account of 
the contract. Then they had a stock to go to work with. Then they 
sold these to Tom, Dick, and Harry— various parties — and then they 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 643 

got money, and that money is placed to the credit of J. A. Rice, assistant 
treasurer. So that they have a money account and a contract account 
"by itself. The books of the compauy show it in that way. 

Q. What amount of securities were sold by the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company while the Hoxie contract was being contracted ? — A. 
Nothing but the Government bonds. 

Q. Did the company, after the Hoxie contract had been completed, 
dispose of any of the first-mortgage bonds; and if so, what amount? — 
A. They disposed of all of them up to the end of the Hoxie contract, 
or that portion of the road covered by the Hoxie contract. 

Q. They were authorized to issue their bonds one hundred miles in 
advance of the road, and sometimes bonds were sold in advance of that 
authority to issue. They commenced selling bonds in 18G7. Were those 
bonds sold to the Credit Mobilier ? — A. A million and a quarter were 
sold to the Credit Mobilier. 

Q. Were there any more than that sold to the Credit Mobilier ? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. Did the company dispose of the remainder of its first-mortgage 
bonds up to the one hundredth meridian % — A. It disposed of them all. 

Q. Have you examined the balance-sheets that were presented by 
Mr. Crane in his testimony yesterday ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do those balance-sheets show a correct statement "from the books 
of the company ? — A. Substantially so. 

Q. In what did the trustees receive the profits that appear by these bal- 
ance-sheets to have been made on the Ames and Davis contracts? — A. 
They subscribed for stock, and they purchased bonds. 

Q. They received it in stock and bonds, did they not? — A. They did 
just according to that wording. 

Q. How much of it was stock, and how much of it in bonds? — A. 
That would be difficult for me to tell. 

Q. Can that be shown from the books ? — A. I do not know but it can 
be. I think we can tell. January 3, 1868, they purchased 3,777 first- 
mortgage bonds at 90, amounting to $3,390,300; July 3, they pur- 
chased certificates which were afterward converted into income- 
bonds, 2,500, at 101, amounting to $2,525,000; January 3, 1868, 22,960 
shares of stock, amounting to $2,296,000 ; June 17, 1868, 15,000 shares, 
amounting to $1,500,000; July 3, 1868, 25,000 shares, amounting to 
$2,500,000; July 14, 1868, 3,000 shares, amounting to $300,000 ; Decem- 
ber 31, 1868, 75,000 shares, amounting to $7,500,000 ; February 27, 1869, 
10,000 shares, amounting to $1,000,000 ; October 19, 1869, 10,000 shares, 
amounting to $1,000,000 ; November 3, 1869, 10,000 shares, amounting to 
$1,000,000 ; November 26, 1869, 10,000 shares, amounting to $1,000,000 ; 
December IS, 1869, 10,000 shares, amounting to $1,000,000 ; January 
11, 1870, 10,000 shares,, amounting to $1,000,000; January 25, 1870, 
. 10,000 shares, amounting to $1,000,000 ; February 11, 1870, 20,000 shares, 
amounting to $2,000,000; February 18, 1870, 10,000 shares, amounting 
to $1,000,000; July 29, 1870, 30,000 shares, amounting to $3,000,000. 
The bonds — Mar.ch 31, 1869, 1,900 first-mortgage bonds, amounting to 
$1,900,000 ; October and November, 1,700 income-bonds, at 60, amount- 
ing to $1,020,000; January, 2,210,000, amounting to $1,320,600; Feb- 
ruary, 1,939,000, amounting to $1,145,400 ; January 18, 1871, 1,000' at 60, 
amounting to $600. Mr. John A. Rice paid in cash into the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company, as the proceeds of bonds and stocks sold by 
him, $6,368,334.90. 

Q. Was that the proceeds of bonds and stocks sold? — A. Yes; that 



644 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

was the proceeds of bonds and stocks sold by him, and for which he 
received stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company at par. 

Q. Then deducting from the amount of stock given by you as above, 
$6,368,334.90, would show the amount of stock received on account of 
the profits as shown by these balance-sheets ? — A. It would show the. 
amount taken under the eleventh section of the contract. They sub- 
scribed for so much stock on account of the excess received from the 
bonds on account of construe tion. 

Q. The aggregate profits made on the Ames and Davis contracts, as 
shown by the balance-sheets, exhibited with Mr. Crane's testimony, are 
$37,657,095. Now, state how much of that was bonds, how much stock, 
and how much money. — A. They received on account of the contract, 
$3,777,000 first-mortgage bonds, amounting to $3,399,300; 4,400,000 
certificates for first-mortgage bonds, which were afterward converted 
in to income-bonds, amounting to $4,425,000 ; 5,841 income-bonds, amount- 
ing to $3,486,600, and subscribed for 240,000 shares of stock, amounting 
to $24,000,000 ; the balance was received in cash, $2,346,195. 

Q. Have there been any payments made to the Credit Mobilier since 
the resolution of the directors fixing the amount due to the Credit 
Mobilier? — A. Not on that account. 

Q. Have there been any payments made on any account ? — A. Yes. 

Q. On what account ? — A. On current account. 

Q. What does it have reference to ? — A. It has reference to nothing 
particular. It is simply a current account, " paid them so much money 
on account." 

Q. Does the Credit Mobilier have any other account ? — A. It has two 
accounts; one with the balance due on the Hoxie contract that has 
never been paid. 

Q. Nothing been paid on that T — A. No, sir. 

Q. Look at the books of the Union Pacific Eailroad and see what 
appears to be the cost of the whole road as shown by these books. — A. 
The whole cost, as appears from the books of the company, is $114,033,- 
728.52, an itemized statement of which is herewith submitted, [marked 
"" Ham 1."] Now, I would like to state the actual cost of building the 
Pacific Eailroad as I make it up from the books of the contractors and 
books of the company. The actual cost is $71,208,399.18. 

Q. What do you mean when you say the actual cost % — A. I mean the 
amount of money expended in building, losses on securities, discount, 
and interest, and other things which go to make up the cost of the road. 

Q. In this account that you have presented I find an item of 
$2,581,180.09, discount and interest. Will you explain that'?— A. That 
was interest on the money borrowed. 

Q. From whom? — A. From outside parties, principally; some from 
inside parties. 

Q. In what way was that money borrowed ? — A. Some of it on de- 
mand loans and some of it on notes. 

Q. Is there on the books of the company an account of thatl — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. State on what book and commencing at what page this discount 
and interest account may be found? — A. On ledger A, commencing at 
page 535. 

Q. Where will the journal entries be found? — A. Just where stated 
here. 

Q. They will be on journals and cash-books corresponding with the 
paging that is indicated on this ledger! — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What do I understand you to mean when you say that the actual 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 645 

cost of building the road is $71,208,399.18?— A. I mean to say that if 
there had been no contracts made with anybody and they had had to 
build the road under the difficulties they did encounter, it would have 
cost seventy-one millions in cash, having to sell their securities at the 
prices they sold them. 

Q. Then in getting at this seventy-one millions you take into account 
the discount on the securities ? — A. Yes, sir ; the loss to the company 
on securities. 

Q. When you speak of seventy-one millions you are speaking outside 
of the contracts that have been made for the construction of the. road , 
or do you mean it would cost that at the contract prices at which it was 
let? — A. No, sir; that it did actually cost the contractors so much money 
to build, and then it cost the company in addition so much money. I 
will make a detailed statement that will sbow it. [Ham 2, appended.] 
Now, I would like to make a statement. The trustees under the Ames 
and Davis contracts were compelled on account of the pressing necessi- 
ties of the company to sell the securities received by them at so large a 
discount from the amount paid for them that the actual amount divided 
on both contracts at its cash value I should consider worth not more 
than nine millions. 

Q. What securities do you refer to as having been sold by them at 
this large discount? — A. Stocks and bonds of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road. 

Q. What bonds do you refer to? — A. Land-grants, incomes, and 
stocks. 

Q. Do you refer to any first-mortgage bonds? — A. Yes, sir; first- 
mortgage, land-grant, income, and stock. 

Q. What did the trustees purchase the land-grant bonds at? — A. 
Fifty-five per cent. 

Q. They bought them from the company at 55? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What did they sell at ? — A. They sold them with other securitias. 

Q. They bought the land-grants at 55 and sold them for what? — A. 
They did not sell them by themselves. 

Q. What did they do then ? — A. They bought first-mortgage at 85 
and the land-grants at 55, and they sold one $1,000 first-mortgage bond, 
and one $1,000 land-grant bond, and $5,000 of stock, for $2,000. 

Q. Was that to raise money ? — A. It was to raise money to meet the 
pressing necessities of the company. 

Q. To whom did they sell them ?— A. They offered them to all their 
stockholders, and could not get them to take them. 

Q. Did they sell them to these persons who are given in Mr. Crane's 
statement ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Go to the next class of bonds. — A. They purchased the income- 
bonds at 60, and sold $1,000 of bonds and $2,000 of stock for $800. 

Q. In other words, they sold the bonds at 80 and distributed that 
much stock, or they sold the bonds at 60 and the stock at 10; is not 
that the way ? It amounts to the same thing either way, does it not ? — 
— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. They bought these u incomes" at 60; then they turned about and 
sold them at 60 with double the amount of stock at 10, or they sold them 
at 80 and distributed the stock ? — A. No, sir. They sold the bonds and 
stock, is my understanding, without any distribution. I would put the 
whole thing in at 80— $1,000 of bonds and $2,000 of stock. 

Q. Did not you make up on their books a statement showing that 
this was a sale of the bonds at 60 and the stock at 10 ? — A. I had no 
authority to do it. 



646 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. That was your interpretation at that time ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You did put that upon these books ? — A. Yes, sir ; but I had no 
authority whatever. 

Q. But it so appears upon the books ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. This is what you call a selling of the securities at this enormous 
discount, by virtue of which you say that you conclude that these par- 
ties only made a profit of nine millions ! — A. Yes, sir ; because there 
were lots of men that would not take the securities at these prices. 

Q. These sales of securities to which you have referred are the same 
sales of securities which were referred to by Mr. Crane in his testimony 
yesterday, a detailed statement of which was put in evidence ? — A. Yes, 
sir ; I did not hear his evidence, but that is the detailed statement. 

Q. They are the same sales that are set forth in this statement ? — A. 
Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, it is upon that that you base your statement that you do not 
consider that these parties made more than nine millions of dollars?— 
A. It is upon that. 

Q. Now, Mr. Ham, was not that the mode in which the parties dis- 
tributed the avails of their contract ! — A. It was not done for that 
object. 

Q. But is not that the mode in which they did distribute this con- 
tract? — A. That was not the object. 

Q. I am not talking about the object. Is not that the mode in which 
they did distribute ? — A. You. will find my name in here for large amounts 
to which I was not entitled. 

Q. Did they ever make a distribution of avails in any other mode 
than this ? — A. They had no avails to distribute. 

Q. Then there were no profits made upon this contract? — A. No, 
sir. 

Q. There never was anything divided ? — A. Not according to the 
books. 

Q. According to the system of book-keeping which you had adopted 
in conducting these affairs, notwithstanding all that appears from the 
balance-sheet there is nothing divided ? — A. I wish to say that the se- 
curities were sold so much less than what was paid for them that noth- 
ing was divided; the book-keeping had nothing to do with it. 

Q. Then, according to the manner in which they did this thing, there 
was nothing to divide?— A. Nothing to divide. 

Q. Nothing to divide in theory ; how was it in fact ? — A. Well, I con- 
sider if that had been desirable, lots of people would have taken it that 
did not take it, 

Q. I want to know how it was in fact. Do you wish to be understood 
that there was nothing divided among these people ? — A. I wish to be 
understood as saying that. 

Q. Then what became of these profits ?— A. They sold these securi- 
ties at these prices ; they offered them to 

Q. They sold them to whom ? — A. They offered them to their stock- 
holders. 

Q. They sold them to whom ?— A. Sold them to stockholders. 

Q. Did not they substantially sell them to . themselves ?— A. Not 
entirely. 

Q. But substantially they sold them to themselves ?— A. Yes ; they 
did. 

Q. Mr. Ham, have you ever undertaken to trace out these bonds that 
were sold? — A. Yes, sir; that is the manner in which they were sold. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 647 

Q. The circular you showed me shows the manner in which this thing 
was done to which you have referred ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did I understand you a while ago to say that the trustees "bought 
income-bonds from the Union Pacific Railroad Company J ? — A. Well, it 
is the same thing, buying them or taking them upon a contract. 

The Chairman. That is what I have been contending for all the^way 
through. 

The Witness. I will admit that they took bonds on the contract any 
time. 

Q. I will read a portion of the circular : " The trustees having com- 
pleted the work of construction and equipment of the Union Pacific 
Eailroad, and having received a payment for the same in ten per cent, 
income-bonds, payable September 1, 1871, or within five years, at the 
option of the company, also stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany, and being desirous of closing up the trust and paying up all out- 
standing liabilities, propose to each of the parties interested in the trust 
the following terms." Then, if this circular shows just what was done, 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company did pay for construction by turn- 
in over these income-bonds % — A. That seems to be the construction 
which Mr. Rice puts upon it. I do not put that construction upon it. 

Q. If this circular [Ham 3] that you hand me is correct, then the trus- 
tees received stock in payment for this work ! — A. I do not consider that 
correct. 

Q. Mr. Rice seems to put that construction upon it 1 — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Now, this circular proceeds as follows : " For two of said income- 
bonds, of 81,000 each, and forty shares of the stock of the company, and 
by way of compromise and adjustment, will also give the party taking 
said bonds one other of said bonds of 81,000 upon the surrender to us, 
as such agents, of a certificate or agreement of July 3, 1868, by which 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company promise to deliver, Avhen practica- 
ble, one of its first-mortgage bonds : payment for the said bonds will be 
received as follows." Is that the construction which you put upon it? — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You and Mr. Rice agree as far as that is concerned ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. I would be glad to have you state, now, how it was that this short- 
age of bonds occurred, as nearly- as you can. — A. In March, 1869, I 
locked the company's vault and went home with instructions to remain 
there until I was sent for. I was not sent for until about the middle of 
the following July. In the mean time the company's officers, or the men 
managing the company, had been dogged around from pillar to post, 
and when I came to make up the bond account this shortage occurred. 

Q. What disposition had been made of these bonds from time to time 
prior to this shortage I — A. The most of these bonds, when I left, were 
in Boston ; but they were accounted for from Boston. 

Q. Was there any shortage at Boston '? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Where did the shortage occur ?— A. That I cannot trace. It oc- 
curred between those three months. 

Q. Did it occur in New York ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Were any of those bonds deposited about one place and another 
as collateral security for loans ? — A. It is so stated. I have no knowl- 
edge of it -, do not know anything about it. 

Q. Prior to the time of your getting out of New York had any been 
deposited as collaterals? — A. A large amount of them. 

Q. Have you any books or papers that will .show with whom bonds 
had been deposited as collaterals ! — A. I had books., but do not know 
where they are. 



648 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Did you ever keep any memoranda that would throw auy light 
upon that subject ? — A. I did at the time ; but they are all gone now, 

Q. How did you keep these memoranda % — A. I kept a bond-book, 
showing the number of each bond, and what was its disposition ; where 
it was temporarily, and what was its final disposition. 

Q. Where is that bond-book? — A. I do not know whether it is in 
the office or not. 

Q. Is it not possible that these bonds may be out somewhere where 
they have been hypothecated % — A. No, sir ; the coupons come in regu- 
larly. 

Q. I suppose the coupons may come back ; but* the bonds do not find 
their way back ? — A. No, sir $ we have attempted by the coupons to 
trace the bonds back, but we find that parties having control of the 
bonds very often shifted numbers — mixed them up with their own 
bonds — and then they got shifted around elsewhere. We cannot tell 
anything about it. 



New York, February 8, 1873. 

Edward Morgan sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside and what is your occupation? — An- 
swer. I reside at 328 Fifth avenue, New York City. Am a banker, of 
banking-house of M. Morgan & Sons, doing business No. 39 William 
street, New York City. 

Q. What, if anything, do you know of three drafts drawn by J. M. S. 
Williams, treasurer of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, March 9, 
1871, one for $20,626.45, one for $43,841.09, and one for $18,032.46? 
State all you know in relation to them. — A. They were drawn for ac- 
count of C. S. Bushnell against land-grant bonds of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company, at 70 cents to the dollar, and accrued interest. The 
proceeds of the draft went to Mr. BushnelFs account on our books, and 
he got the benefit of the same. The drafts came to us on the 10th of 
March, 1871, were paid that day, and the bonds accompanied the drafts. 
The drafts and bonds I think were brought to us by Mr. Bushnell in 
person. That is all I know about the transaction. 

Q. Do your books show anything in relation to a draft for $2,500, 
favor of E. H. Bollins, drawn by Mr. Bushnell ? — A. Our books show 
that on the 10th of March, 1871, we paid Mr. BushnelFs draft, favor of 
E. H. Bollins. for $2,500. 



New York, February 8, 1873. 

Thomas P. Gilman sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside and what is your occupation ? — An- 
swer. Palisades, Kockland County, New York. Am a banker, of the 
firm of Gilman, Son & Co., doing business in the city of New York, No. 
47 Exchange Place. 

Q. Look at this check, dated March 9, 1871, drawn by J. M. S. Will- 
iams, treasurer, on National Bank of Commerce of Boston, No. 2372, 
for $24,500, payable to the order of B. W. Spence, indorsed by B. W. 
Spence, payable to order of E. H. Bollins, secretary, and indorsed E. H. 
Bollins, secretary; and state whether or not that check came to your 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC KAILROAD. 649 

bank , and on whose account, and by whom deposited. — A. I think that 
that check was deposited by General G. M. Dodge. Our boots show 
the following entry, date March 10, 1871: "G. M. Dodge dep'd $24,500." 
The form of the entry indicates that the deposit was made, by General 
Dodge in person. If it had come by mail the entry would have been, in 
place of the word " dep'd," " let," indicating letter, and following that, 
the date of the letter inclosing the deposit. When a deposit is made 
otherwise than in person the mode of making the deposit is always 
indicated in our books. 

Q. Had General Dodge been keeping an account with your bank 
prior to this deposit ; did he have an account at that time ; was it con- 
tinued after that date, and did this $24,500 go to his credit in his 
general account, if he had such an account ? — A. He had been keeping 
an account at our bank ; had an account there which was continued 
afterward. This $24,500 went into that account to his credit. 

Q. What, if anything, do you know as to what disposition was made 
by him of this $24,500 ? — A. All I know is that he drew checks and 
drafts on his general account, of which this $24,500 was a part. 



Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, February 10, 1873. 
Thomas A. Scott, of the city of Philadelphia and State of Pennsyl- 
vania, sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Did you at any time hold any official relations with the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company ; and if so, what, and when % — Answer. 
I was president of the company from some time in March, 1871, until 
March, 1872, one year. 

Q. Were you elected president at the annual meeting in March, 1871 f — 
A. Yes, sir, I was ; 1 think the 8th or 9th March. 

Q. Were you in the city of Washington while the bill was pen ding- 
before Congress in relation to Government transportation, which was 
approved March 3, 1871? — A. I was there several times while the bill 
was pending, but not in connection with that bill. My special business 
in Washington was to take care of the Ohio Kiver bridge bill, for the 
crossing at Cincinnati, in which our Pennsylvania Eailroad Company 
was interested to over the extent of a million of dollars, which was 
placed in great jeopardy by the threatened action of Congress, by rea- 
son of their requiring the bridge to be raised over thirty feet, without 
any possible claim for extraordinary outlay caused thereby. I appeared 
before the committees of both Houses, with our counsel, Stanley Mat- 
thews, on this subject, and continued the fight up to the last night of 
the session, when Congress granted us an appeal to the Supreme Court 
for damages, if we could show that we were entitled to them. I knew, 
during my stay in Washington, of the efforts of gentlemen connected 
with the Union Pacific Railroad to pass the bill of March 3, 1871, relat- 
ing to transportation over the Pacific roads, and I also knew of the 
Omaha bridge bill, to provide for the completion of that structure 
across the Missouri River. 

Q. Have you any knowledge or information of any moneys ©f the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company having been used directly or indirectly 
with members of Congress to secure the passage of the act of March 3, 
1871, or of the Omaha bridge bill, approved February 24, 1871 ?— A. I 
have not. 



650 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Were you at a meeting of the board of directors of the Union Pa- 
cific Eaflroad Company, held in the city of Boston, March 9, 1871, and if 
so, do you know anything in relation to a claim of $126,000 that was 
considered by a committee at that meeting? — A. I was at the meeting 
on the 9th of March, and knew that the subject of compensation 
or allowance to Mr. Bushnell was placed in the hands of a committee 
with power to do what in their judgment was right to be done. And 
as president of the company, I was ex-ofiicio called on as a member of 
that committee. The committee heard Mr. BushnelFs claims, as stated 
by myself, and granted him the amount of $126,000, which was paid to 
him by the company. Mr. Bushnell stated that he was under great 
embarrassment on account of the company by undertaking to carry 
through himself and his associates large amounts of the securities 
very much above ruling market rates, and that he had, at sacrifice t3 his 
own business, given the company's interests at Washington a great deal 
of time and attention, and that he had called General Dodge there to 
aid him, and had agreed to pay him liberally for his time and expenses, 
all of which he wanted to carry out in good faith, and that if the com- 
pany were willing to aid him reasonably he felt that he could go on 
and carry out every obligation he had made to the company. I knew 
of my own knowledge that Mr. Bushnell had been carrying a very 
large load of obligations, and for the various reasons given by Mr. 
Bushnell, the committee agreed that the company's interest and Mr. 
BushnelFs would be equitably served by granting the sum they did, and 
it was so paid to him. 

Q. What securities was he carrying to which you have referred in 
your last answer, and who were his associates? — A. He was carrying a 
large amount of the land-grants and income-bonds of the company, that 
were taken by himself and associates in order to place the company in 
reasonable financial condition by providing for its interest due in Jan- 
uary, and to provide money to lift and pay off the floating debt of the 
company. I had made this a condition before agreeing to accept the 
presidency, that all its old complications with the Credit Mobilier, 
unadjusted floating debt, and other questions of that character, should 
either be actually paid off or placed in such condition as to relieve the 
company from embarrassment from that source. To accomplish this 
purpose, Mr. Bushnell and his associates agreed, as I afterward under- 
stood, to purchase from the company, very much above their current 
market-values, four or five millions of the bonds referred to, no doubt with 
the prospect on their part that the improved financial condition of the 
company, and the revived credit of the new organization, would ulti- 
mately relieve them from loss. But this they found to be a slow pro- 
cess and the load a heavy one. I do not know who the associates of 
Mr. Bushnell were, but I think they were bankers of New York and 
Boston. Mr. Bushnell finally and fully, as 1 believe, carried out all his 
obligations to the company, and its credit by these various movements 
was preserved intact, and all its obligations met at maturity. 

Q. Did Mr. Bushnell pay to you any portion of this $126,000, and if 
so, what amount and on what account ? — A. I had said to Mr. Bushnell, 
on several occasions, that I wanted very much to have moneys that 
I had advanced him restored to me as soon as he could ; and after the 
committee had acted on the 9th of March, I said to him then that I 
hoped he could give me a portion of the moneys he owed me. He asked 
me the least amount I could get along with that. day, and I replied, fif- 
teen or twenty thousand dollars. He gave me a check of the*company 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD 651 

for $19,000, which I took as cash from him. This check I deposited in 
the usual course, after my return to Philadelphia, at the Girard Bank. 

Q. Look at this check dated March 9, 1871, No. 2373, payable to order 
of B. W. Spence, indorsed by B. W. Spence and by E. H. Eollins, and 
state whether that is the check to which you refer. — A. I have no doubt 
that this is the check that was handed to me after the meeting of the 
9th March, in Boston, by Mr. Bushnell. 

Q. Have you any knowledge or information of any moneys of the 
Union Pacific Bailroad Company having been paid djrectly or indirectly 
to secure the election of any Bepresentative to Congress or Senator 1 ? — 
A. I have none whatever. 



Washington, 1). C, February 10, 1873. 
Charles T. Sherman sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Question. Were you one of the Government directors of the Union 
Pacific Bailroad Company ? — Answer. I was. 

Q. During what time! — A. From the summer of 1864 to the summer 
of 1867 ; the particular dates I cannot give. 

Q. Had you any personal knowledge of the history and progress of 
the surveys and location of that road during the time that you were a 
Government director? — A. I had only a general information of the 
progress of the surveys which I derived from examination of the reports 
of the engineers as they were from time to time made to the board. 

Q. I find in Executive Document No. 2 of the Senate of the United 
States, a communication to the Senate from O. H. Browning, Secretary 
of the Interior, dated April 2, 1867, containing,' among other things, a 
report by Mr. J. L. Williams, Government director. I wish simply to 
call your attention to that report, and especially to the description of 
route No. 7, on page 18 ; also to what is said On page 24 of that report 
in respect to its being the route finally adopted. And I wish to ask, 
first, in regard to that, whether that pass, described in his report as No. 
7, is the one that was in fact established by the company % — A. (After 
examining report.) Yes, sir ; it was the one adopted. It was known as 
Evans's Pass. Previously, in common conversation at the board, it was 
known as the Cheyenne Pass. It is the pass where Cheyenne and Sher- 
man are situated. It is the pass which was ultimately adopted, and on 
which the road was constructed. 

Q. In another report by Mr. J. L. Williams, dated June 16, 1868, he 
alludes to that location in these words : " In my report to you of 23d 
November, 1866, the very advantageous route, at 90 feet maximum 
grade, across the first mountain range — the Black Hills — discovered 
after extensive surveys continued through three seasons, was fully de- 
scribed/' Now, I wish to ask you how fully the character of that route, 
as described in the report which I have shown you, was known to the 
direction of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company prior to the letting of 
the Oakes Ames contract, on August 16, 1867 % — A. My impression is 
that it was fully known to the board of directors, and to the parties in- 
terested in that contract. 

Q. It appears somewhere in this report that the surveys made prior 
to that date were quite full and were made by instruments — actual sur- 
veys with levelings. Can you tell us, from your knowledge, whether that 
was the fact or not ? — A. I so understood it. I had no personal knowl- 



652 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFC RAILROAD. 

edge on the subject. The Government directors relied altogether on Mr. 
Williams; having full confidence in whatever he said. 

Q. I find, in a report made by you and other Government directors, 
dated at New York, January 7, 1867, that you speak of the track of this road 
as laid three hundred and five miles from Omaha, and the necessary en- 
gines, cars, and stations furnished for immediate use, although not fully 
equipped; that the road has been accepted from the contractors, and steps 
taken fora settlement at $50,000 per mile, of which $5,000 per mile was for 
equipment, under the provisions of the Hoxie contract, referred to in your 
report of July 8, 1865, and you say : "The said contract was extended to 
the one hundredth meridian of longitude, by the executive committee, 
without the knowledge of any of the Government directors, the extension 
of the said contract not having been reported to the board of directors 
till October last. Such action, however, had been taken by the company 
as rendered the contract legally binding." What objection was made, 
if any, to the extension of the Hoxie contract to the one hundredth 
meridian ; and what was the ground of objection taken on the part of 
the Government directors ? — A. At the first meeting of the Government 
directors with the board, in New York, in the fall of 1864, the Hoxie con- 
tract came to our knowledge, having been executed by the board previous 
to our appointment. We then condemned it. That was as early as 
1864, when the contract was only for one hundred miles west of Omaha. 
We condemned it, but under the circumstances, considering that it was 
made while the war was still existing, considering the high price of 
labor, and the want of means to transport iron and other materials to 
Omaha, except up the Missouri Eiver, which was an uncertain way, and 
considering the consequently enhanced cost of materials, we concluded 
that we would simply protest against the contract in our report to the 
Secretary of the Interior, and let it go. But afterward, when we dis- 
covered "that the executive committee had extended that contract 150 
miles farther, without submitting it to the board, and without commu- 
nicating or reporting it to the board, for nearly a year afterward, we did 
feel disposed to protest and to take some action on the subject. But 
why we did not, I cannot give the reasons now. We felt outraged at 
the time. 

Q. What was the ground of that objection? — A. That the price was 
too large, too extravagant; it was $50,000 a mile, but it should not have 
cost the half of that. That was the ground of our objection. 

Q. It is stated also in this report of yours that "it is expected that 
the Cedar Rapids and Missouri Railroad will be completed the present 
month through Western Iowa, which will save much expense, with more 
certainty in future for the transportation of materials." Ho you recol- 
lect whether that completion was in fact effected as then expected? — A. 
I think it was. 

Q. What effect had that facility of transportation on the construction 
of the Union Pacific Railroad? — A. It cheapened it very much, and 
rendered more certain the transportation of materials. 

Q. When did you leave the direction?— A. In July, 1867, I think. 

Q. In your report of March 2, 1867, I see this statement: "At a 
regular meeting of the board of directors just closed a contract was 
concluded for the construction of two hundred and twelve miles of the 
line extending from the present terminus to the base of the Rocky 
Mountains, at $42,000 and $45,000 per mile, which includes provision 
for ample equipment and stations.*' With whom was that contract 
made, and from what point? — A. That was the Boomer contract. 
Three hundred and five miles west of Omaha was fifty-odd miles west 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 653 

of the one hundredth meridian. I think the one hundredth meridian 
is two hundred and forty-seven miles west of Omaha. 

Q. Then this two hundred and twelve miles would begin some fifty- 
odd miles west of the one hundredth meridian and extend to the base 
of the Hocky Mountains 1 — A. Yes. 

Q. State what amount of money during your connection with the 
road was paid in on the stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany.— A. I do not think that there was more than $200,000 or $250,000, 
the 5 or 10 per cent, (whichever it was) that the charter required. We 
understood that Dr. Durant furnished the money to build the road be- 
yond Omaha, (for the first thirty or forty miles beyond Omaha it was a 
very expensive road,) and that he got that expensive part about fin- 
ished from his own private means and with the money which the stock- 
holders paid in, and then the Credit Mobilier began to appear. But 
how and why it appeared was kept as much concealed from the Gov- 
ernment directors as it could possibly be. We were not admitted to 
their confidence. But we knew that the road' was carried on with an 
energy which none of us ever saw before, and it was perfectly satisfac- 
tory to us as representing the Government on that board. 

Q. Prior to the beginning of 1867, was the road, so far as you knew, 
as economically constructed, and were its affairs as economically ad- 
ministered, as could reasonably be expected under the circumstances? — 
A. I think so, fully. The road was constructed in a very economical 
manner, but, at the same time, in a permanent manner. ' The sub-con- 
tracts were let with a good deal of care and a good deal of cutting down 
of prices, so that the sub-contractors made but a fair profit. 

Q. Were you personally acquainted with the manner in which the 
subscriptions to the stock of the company were paid in, and with the 
manner in which dividends were made to the parties connected with 
the construction or with the government of the road prior to your leav- 
ing the direction? — A. No, sir; I cannot say that I have any personal 
information. We were aware that there was but little stock subscribed 
for, and but little money arising from the stock, and there certainly was 
no dividend on the Union Pacific Bailroad stock. We were kept igno- 
rant of everything that the Credit Mobilier did. We did not wish to 
acquire any information in regard to it. In fact, from what little infor- 
mation did come to our knoweledge we entered a protest against their 
proceedings. 

Q. I wish to state to you the prices at which the Oakes Ames con- 
tract was let : 

Per mile. 

The first 100 miles $42, 000 

Second section, 167 miles 45, 000 

Third section, 100 miles 96,000 

Fourth section, 100 miles 80, 000 

Fifth section, .100 miles 90, 000 

Sixth section, 100 miles 90, 000 

amounting to 667 miles in all, and extending from the one hundredth meri- 
dian westward. State, from your knowledge of the surveys then made 
and reported to the board, as to the general character of the route, also 
of the means of transportation, and of the condition of the country, and 
of the amount of assets in the possession of the company, how these 
rates, agreed to be paid to Mr. Ames, would, in your judgment, com- 
pare with what would be a just price for the work. — A. Prom the 
knowledge I obtained while a director of the road, from the surveys 
and the plats, and from my knowledge of the condition of the country out 



654 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

there, I should say that these prices were double what they should have 
been, and that one-half of those prices would have given a fair and 
legitimate profit to a contractor. 

Q. State whether, in your judgment, there would have been difficulty 
in procuring that work to be done with the assets that were then in the 
possession of the company, and with the knowledge which then existed 
as to the state of the route, the difficulties of construction, and every- 
thing else, in getting men of sufficient enterprise and experience to 
build the road at lower prices. — A. I think that, considering the condi- 
tion of the road, the condition of the Government, and the standing in 
the market of the first-mortgage bonds, contractors might have been 
had who would have done the work for much lower prices. It might not 
have been possible for any contractor to have done it in so rapid a 
manner as Dr. Durant did it with his unexampled energy and goahead- 
ativeness ; but I think that contractors might have been had who would 
have done it at the prices I have indicated. 

Q. What were those prices? — A. Half the prices that you named. 
That is my general impression, and J think it was the impression which 
I had at the time. 

Q. But you doubt whether it could have been done with the same 
rapidity 1 — A. Yes, unless Dr. Durant had undertaken it, for he could 
♦drive work better than any man I ever saw. 

Q. Have you any knowledge of any influence being attempted, either 
by the bestowment of money or other thing of value, on any officer of 
the Government of the United States, or on any member of either House 
of Congress, in regard to legislation affecting the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Or in regard to the acceptance of the road! — A. No, sir. I never 
heard of any attempt to influence any person connected with the Gov- 
ernment or with Congress during my services as a Government director. 
When the amended charter was obtained, in 1864, I heard rumors that 
money was used freely, but I know of no instance j and I never heard of 
Sj rumor of any officer of the Government being approached in an im- 
proper way during 1865, 1866, or 1867. After 1867 I was a perfect 
stanger to the road. 

Q. There is some evidence in the record tending to show that some of 
these lettings were taken, with an agreement by which the directors 
who were stockholders in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company (not 
Government directors) should have an interest in the contracts ; (I think 
that that was true of the Williams contract.) Do you know whether 
the Government directors ever became a party to, or assented to, the 
arrangement whereby these directors of the company should have the 
benefit of, or any part in, the contracts for the construction of the 
road % — A. No, sir ; the Government directors invariably voted against 
the Boomer contract ; and I recollect that we called the yeas and nays 
on the Williams contract, (which was rather an uncommon thing in the 
board,) and we five voted square against the Williams contract. I 
think Mr. Cisco and one other company director voted with us. I think 
the vote stood seven to thirteen. We voted all the time and protested 
all the time against these contracts; and our principal ground of opposing 
tkem was that we knew that a large portioa of the directors of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company were parties to them, being members 
of the Credit Mobilier ; I think the majority of the directors were. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. Who were your associates as Government directors % — A. Under 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 655 

the act of 1862, providing for two Government directors, Mr. Harbaugh, 
of Pennsylvania, and Mr. Carter, of Illinois, were appointed directors. 
The amended charter of 1864 provided for three others, and Mr. George 
Ashmuu, of Massachusetts, Mr. Jesse L. Williams, of Indiana, and my- 
self were appointed the three additional ones. 

Q. Are you able to state, with some accuracy, at what time this first 
meeting at New York took place ? — A. My recollection is that I was 
appointed within a few days after the passage of the amended charter, 
which, I think, was in July, 1864. I should say that the first meeting 
in New York was in October or November, 1864. 

Q. Had the Hoxie contract been extended over the second one hun- 
dred miles when you took your seat in the board ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. That was done, according to the testimony before us, by a prop- 
osition made on the 5th of October, 1864. — A. My impression would be 
that the extension of the Hoxie contract was not till 1865. 

Q. The proposal for the Hoxie contract was on August 8, 1864. It was 
ratified by three directors, for the first one hundred miles, on 23d Sep- 
tember, 1864 ; then, on the 4th October, 1864, Hoxie proposed by H. 0. 
Crane, his attorney, to extend it one hundred miles, and the proposition 
was accepted on October 3, 1864. There does not seem to have been 
any written contract by which that other forty-seven miles was built by 
Hoxie. — A. It was probably done by a verbal agreement. 

Q. Did Hoxie ever, in fact, do any work under the contract? — A. No, 
sir; he was a merely nominal party. I think he was United States 
marshal in Iowa, and I think he acted as ferryman in ferrying freight 
across the river. He never did a particle of work. He was not known 
on the line. 

Q. Was there not one Government director on the executive com- 
mittee ?— A. Yes. 

Q. Who was he % — A. Mr. Harbaugh. 

Q. Did not Mr. Harbaugh assent to that transaction ? Are you not 
in error in stating that all voted against it'1 — A. No, sir. I am perfectly 
confident that Mr. Harbaugh voted with the rest of us. We all acted 
together always. The extension was authorized, I think, by a sub-com- 
mittee of the executive committtee, and Mr. Harbaugh was not on it. I 
think that Mr. Harbaugh knew no more about it than the rest of us. 

Q. Are we to understand that, down to the fall of 1866, when the 
work under the Hoxie contract was completed, the Government direct- 
ors protested against the whole proceeding, on the ground that the com- 
pany directors had an illegal interest in it!— A. No, sir; there was very 
seldom an opportunity to protest, because the Hoxie contract was con- 
sidered valid and binding on the company. The road was built a num- 
ber of miles beyond the Hoxie contract before the Williams contract 
came before us ; and that was the time that we voted against it and ob- 
jected to it, for the reason principally of the high prices. 

Q. But were you not aware that the Hoxie contract was a contract in 
which a large number of the directors were interested? — A. We knew 
that the Hoxie contract had been assigned to the Credit Mobilier, of 
which a large number of the directors were members. 

Q. And all the work that was done up to 1866 was done under that 
contract? — k. I think so. 

Q. Did all of the G-overnment directors understand at that time that 
this was a contract by which the directors of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company, or a majority of them, were making a contract with them- 
selves or with a couapany in which they were largely interested ? — A. 
Yes. 



656 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Did the Government directors object to this Hoxie contract % — A. 
Yes. 

Q. What acts of objection or protest did they use to manifest their 
opinion % — A. By a report of June, 1865, we set out the Hoxie contract 
in full to the Secretary of the Interior and stated our objections to it, 
after which we acquiesced in it. 

Q. Were you farther informed of the fact which you have stated, that 
substantially no capital stock had been paid in except some few hun- 
dred thousand dollars ? — A. Yes, sir ; I got that information during the 
course of my service. 

Q. And you are also informed that the directors, representing the 
stockholders, represented a fictitious and not an actual stock % — A. It 
could hardly be called a fictitious stock. 

Q. It was a stock which had not been paid in, according to the or- 
ganic act, in cash in full. — A. A majority of the stock was subscribed 
by Dr. Durant and his friends, Mr. Bushneil and his friends, and Mr. 
McCombj and five per cent., or whatever amount the charter required^ 
was paid in in money, and then regular calls were issued on that stock 
for additional payment ; but whether they have been paid I do not know 
and did not know. 

Q. Was your attention called to the fact of the legality of the exist- 
ence and government of a corporation that required its entire capital 
stock to be paid in in money, or to be called in by the directors at in- 
tervals not exceeding six months, at a certain percentage on the stock ? — 
A. Our attention was called to the requirements of the charter, and 
we saw that regular installments were called in, but we did not see that 
they were paid. We supposed they were paid because we knew that 
Dr. Durant was using his own private means to far more than the 
amount of the subscriptions of himself and friends. 

Q. I thought you understood that there was only $200,000 paid f — A. 
In cash. The organic act, as I understood it, required money. 

Q. Did you report to the Government that fact, or did you not regard 
it as a fact of any importance? — A. I cannot say whether we reported 
that or not. 

Q. Did you regard it as a fact of any importance as affecting the 
legality of those transactions % — A. Our attention never was called to 
it. If our attention had been called to it we would have said that it 
was material. 

Q. Both acts, of 1862 and 1864, provided that the capital stock should 
he actually paid in in full in money. ^Tow, when you left the direction, 
about how much nominal capital stock was there? — A. I had a general 
knowledge that the capital stock was not subscribed, only just the 
minimum amount. 

Q. You understood that the contractors under the Hoxie contract 
and under the Boomer contract agreed to take a certain proportion of 
their pay in stock ! — A. Yes. 

Q. And you understood, I suppose, that in graduating the price the 
stock was not treated as worth a hundred cents on the dollar by either 
party, but that it was treated as of less value in fact $ — A. I do not 
recollect how the payments were to be made in the Hoxie contract, and 
I do not recollect ever having seen the Boomer contract ; but I consider 
the $16,000 per mile of first-mortgage bonds of the company and the 
$16,000 of Government subsidy was worth more than the price of con- 
structing the road. 

Q. So that, if the corporation had been dealing with a stranger and 
had had its capital stock all paid in in cash, you would not have thought 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 657 

it to be necessary to have parted with any of the capital stock or the 
cash which it represented ? — A. No, sir ; not a particle. 

Q. Then it would be clear, would it not, that the parties to the trans- 
action, when they took capital stock in addition to the amount of bonds, 
did not regard that capital stock as of any value? — A. I cannot tell 
what they considered it. 

Q. I want to know how you considered it at the time as one of the 
Government directors; did you consider the capital stock that was 
being parted with by the company as getting for the company what 
was worth one hundred cents on the dollar in cash I — A. No, sir ; the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company's stock was not worth 10 cents on the 
dollar at that time in open market. 

Q. You did not at the time understand that the company received for 
that stock which was parted with to those parties, either in cash or 
anything else of value, what was equivalent to one hundred cents on the 
dollar in cash ? — A. Not if the contractors took stock ; I have no dis- 
tinct recollection as to the contents of those contracts ; the Boomer 
contract I never saw, and I do not recollect the particulars of the Hoxie 
contract. 

Q. If it were true that the contractors took stock as part payment of 
the contract, would not that be a failure to comply with the provisions 
of the organic act which required the stock to be paid in full in money? — 
A. I suppose so. 

Q. Can you tell us whether your attention was at that time called to 
that failure to comply with the law, and whether you regarded it as un- 
important, or whether you did not at the time know, the fact? — A. I 
cannot answer that without recurring to the report of June, 1865, which 
was made to the Secretary of the Interior on the subject of the Hoxie 
contract. 

Q. # Haveyou now any doubt that you knew at the time that stock 
was taken by these contractors under the circumstances which you have 
stated ? — A. I answer that by saying that I do not recollect the terms 
of the Hoxie contract. 

Q. Do you know whether you knew them at the time? — A. .Yes; I 
knew at the time whatever the terms were. 

Q. But about the Boomer contract you cannot say ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether the other Government directors knew about 
the Boomer contract ? — A. I think not. 

Q. Did no Government director serve on the special committee that 
made the Boomer contract ? — A. I never heard of any. 

Q. Do you know by whom the Boomer contract was made? — A. I 
understood it was made in Chicago by Dr. Durant and Mr. Boomer. 

Q. Was it made by Boomer with the Union Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, or by Boomer with the Credit Mobilier — the Credit Mobilier con- 
tracting with the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. I cannot say ;. 
I have no personal knowledge of it at all. 

Q. It seems to have been made under an offer by Thomas C. Durant, 
agent, accepted by L. D. Boomer. It does not say whom Durant was 
agent for ? — A. Yes; and therefore I cannot say whether it was made by 
the Credit Mobilier or by the Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. So that you cannot tell who was the party contracting with the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company for so much of this road, as it is not 
embraced in the Hoxie contract ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. You say that something about this contract was kept concealed 
from the Government directors ? — A. The transactions with the Credit 
Mobilier. The word concealed is too strong a term. We had no desire 
42 C M 



658 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

to know anything about the Credit Mobilier. We never made any in- 
quiry about it, and knew nothing about it, and therefore we did not 
know the particulars. 

Q. But if a majority of the other directors, controlling the executive 
committee, (which I understand they had appointed before you came 
into power,) were making a contract with themselves which you re- 
garded as made for too large a price, why had you no desire to know 
anything about it ? — A. We did not wish to be connected with it. 

Q. Was it not your official duty as Government director to be brought 
into connection with such transactions'? — A. We acquiesced in the 
Hoxie contract for reasons set forth in our report to the Secretary of the 
Interior, and any contract made after that we stood ready to veto. If 
the Williams contract had been carried out, and if Dr. Durant had not 
got an injunction against it, we should have got some similar proceed- 
ings against it. That was the only contract that was entered into 
formally by the board while I was a director. 

Q. Did any of the Government directors have any difficulty with 
these gentlemen on the subject of compensation for their services which 
led to a hostile feeling on their part? — A. Not at all; it was just the 
other way. At the first meeting of the board in the fall of 1864 a com- 
mittee was appointed which fixed our compensation at so much per 
day while we were engaged in the business of the Union Pacific Bail- 
road Company, and Mr. Jesse T. Williams considered it too high. He 
always said it was more than we ought to have. The price fixed was 
$10 a day and our expenses paid while we were in New York. We 
always took that amount freely. There was no personal ill-feeling at all. 
The compensation was considered very liberal. 

Q. You say that the construction of the road was perfectly satisfac- 
tory to you as representing the Government ? — A. Yes ; the manner in 
which it was constructed. 

Q. For promptness and thoroughness ? — A. Yes. 

Q. You say that the sub-contractors made only a fair profit? — A. 
Yes. 

Q. Have you had any experience, personal or by observation, in rail- 
road-building ? — A. No, sir; I cannot say that I have, except a general 
knowledge. 

Q. What per cent, of profit would seem to you a reasonable profit to 
be made by a railroad contractor, considering the risks encountered? 

The Witness. Do you mean a sub-contractor or a general contractor? 

Mr. Hoar. I mean a general contractor. — A. I would have been per- 
fectly satisfied if these men had taken 100 per cent, profit on the amount 
of capital employed by the contracting company, and I should not have 
complained if, under the circumstances, they had taken 200 per cent, 
profit. 

Q. Two hundred per cent, on what? — A. On the amount of the capi- 
tal of the contracting company. 

Q. That is, if, at the beginning of your official term, in the fall of 
1864, you had been assured that that road could be built by a person 
who should receive a profit of not over 100 per cent, on the capital em- 
ployed, you would now, looking back to it, say that you would be satis- 
fied with yourself if you had made a contract at that price ? — A. Yes. 
sir; provided the road had been constructed with. the rapidity that it 
was constructed. 

Q. Can you give us any information as to what the profit actually 
was? — A. No, sir; I have only the same knowledge of it as you have, 
from the profits which it is said the Credit Mobilier got. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 659 

Q. If it should turn out that the profit of the Credit Mobilier was 
twelve or fifteen million dollars on a piece of road that cost thirty mil- 
lions to construct, should you regard that as an extravagant profit? — 
A. ISTo, sir ; I should not. 

Q. You would consider it a moderate and reasonable profit, consider- 
ing the risk and circumstances ? — A. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. In speaking of what you think the contract could be got for, you 
say it could have been got for one-half of the prices charged in the 
Oakes Ames contract. Your estimate, I snppose, is cash? — A. Yes, 
sir; the estimate is cash. 

Q. You have no knowledge of how that amount in the Oakes Ames 
contract was made up, whether in bonds or in stock ? — A. I do not 
know. All those transactions were after I left the board. 

Q. What do you consider would be the difference in the cost of build- 
ing the road — whether it is done with the ordinary rate of speed, or 
double the ordinary rate of speed? — A. The increased rate of speed 
would undoubtedly increase the cost ordinarily; but having a knowl- 
edge of the contract for the laying of the track and the transporting of 
the materials, the ties and iron, which was done by a gentleman from 
Ohio, I think I might state that he got no more for laying the track, 
when he laid two or three miles a day, than when he laid half a mile a 
day. I speak of General Casement, the sub-contractor. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. When you left the direction in the summer of 1887, had the first- 
mortgage bonds of the company any well-defined market value? — A. 
I think that in 1887 they were quoted on the stock maiket somewhere 
in the region of 85. 

Q. Did they, or did they not, obtain that value chiefly from being 
taken and divided, and held in large quantities by this association of 
wealthy capitalists ? — A. It might be so, because it was a very strong 
association. 

Q. Suppose your protest against giving the contract to the Credit 
Mobilier had been successful, and suppose the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company had presented itself to the general public to obtain contracts 
for building that road, and had said to the contractors whose bids it 
invited, " We can pay you with our first-mortgage bonds and with our 
Government bonds and our stock," would or would not those securities 
have been, in your judgment, sufficient to have satisfied contractors? — 
A. That is a matter of conjecture altogether, but I think that those 
first-mortgage bonds could always have been used at 80 and upwards; 
I admit that the Credit Mobilier was a very strong combination, and 
without that combination, or a similar combination, I do not think the 
Union Pacific Eailroad would have been built to this day. 

Q. Why not? — A. Dr. Durant and his New York friends had about 
used up all their available means ; and this association was formed, and 
the road went on with great rapidity afterward. Had not this associa- 
tion been formed, the work would have stopped in sixty days. 

Q. Do you think that such a combination would have been obtained 
to build it without the assurance of a profit of fifteen or twenty million 
dollars? — A. I think there would have been. I always thought the 
profits excessive. 

Q. I understood you to say that a profit of fifteen millions was not 
excessive? — A. I think the profit was a good deal more than fifteen 
millions. 



660 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Suppose that road actually cost thirty millions, do you think that 
an association of capitalists could have been got to build it under the 
circumstances existing at that time, taking their pay in the way these 
men did, and taking the condition of the country into consideration, at 
a less profit than fifteen millions, on an expenditure of thirty millions I — 
A. No; it would not have been too }arge a profit. 

Q. Without the aid of such an association of capitalists as we have 
supposed, I understand you to say the work would have stopped in 
sixty days ? — A. I think so, at one time. 

Q. If the road had stopped at any time before its final completion, 
would it not have practically destroyed the value of the first-mortgage 
bonds'? — A. 2sTo, sir; not necessarily, because the country, up to the 
hundredth meridian, is a very fine and productive country, and would 
almost sustain the road itself. At least it would pay the interest on the 
first-mortgage bonds without any through traffic. It would not have 
paid anything more. 

Q. This observation of yours is a confirmation of the opinion just ex- 
pressed by you, that there was an absolute value to those first-mortgage 
bonds which did not depend upon the support which those gentlemen 
gave to them 1 — A. I think the bonds could have maintained that price. 

Q. The point of all this inquiry is to see whether those gentlemen did 
or did not furnish to the road anything more than a contractor would 
have furnished in the ordinary course of business ; whether they did 
add to the capital which they put in, their own vast personal credit 
which they called into the service of the company. That, I understand, 
is the claim made on their side, and I want your judgment upon it. — 
A. I think it is correct. They were purchasing supplies and materials 
very largely. When such men as Oakes Ames, John B. Alley, Sidney 
Dillon, Mr. Bushnell, and Dr. Durant were joined together, their names 
and influence would be a guarantee to all persons supplying materials 
that they would be paid. 

Q. You understood that they furnished a credit which the company 
itself could not have furnished ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. You say you are of opinion that they got a larger profit than fifteen 
million dollars. Are you able to furnish us with any means to ascertain 
how they received that profit, except so far as it is indicated by the 
dividends of the Credit Mobilier to its stockholders, and by the divi- 
dends of the trustees to the stockholders? — A. That is all ; and that is 
only by report. 

Q. Then the substance of your opinion is that, provided those divi- 
dends should appear not to exceed twelve millions (I put it at fifteen- 
millions in my other question, but I now put it at a more moderate fig- 
ure) on an* expenditure of thirty millions, you would say, as the result 
of your observation, that that was not an unreasonable profit, and that, 
as circumstances then stood, the Government could not have got the 
road built for less ? — A. I would say that, assuming what I should think 
was the cost of the road, a profit of twelve or fifteen millions would not 
be a large profit ; but I am pretty confident that the profit was largely 
in excess of that. I should treat the Government bonds and the first- 
mortgage bonds in the hands of the contractors as cash. The stock I 
would not. 

By Mr. Slocum : 
Q. These land-grant bonds are really a third-class security, are they 
not 'i — A. They are a third-class security on the road, but a first-class 
security on the lands. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 661 

Q. Do they take precedence of the first-mortgage bonds, so far as the 
land is concerned ? — A. We always thought so. It would depend on the 
wording of the law. 

Q. Is not the first mortgage a lien upon all the property of the com- 
pany ? — A. I do not recollect the phraseology of the law on that sub- 
ject. The Government directors talked of it once, and we considered, 
without looking at the law, that the land-grant bonds were a third lien 
on the road and road-bed and right of way and equipments, but were a 
first lien on the lands. We did not, however, give it a critical exami- 
nation. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. What was the effect of the ascertainment of the favorable charac- 
ter of the route which was adopted through the Eocky Mountains on 
the prospects of the company ? — A. It was very cheering and encour- 
aging. 

Q. Was not that route much more favorable than was expected at the 
era of theHoxie contract ? — A. Yes, sir; much more favorable. 

Q. Now state what the assets of the company were which were valu- 
able to give it credit with contractors at the date when you left the 
direction ? — A. They were the increased subsidies of the Government 
and. corresponding increase in the first-mortgage bonds of the company, 
and the naturally enhanced price of the lands through Nebraska. The 
surveys in 1866 established the fact that the construction of the road 
through the mountains where the Government' had given thirty-two and 
forty-eight thousand dollars a mile would be very easy and simple, and 
not much more, if any more, expensive than the construction of the road 
on the plains. 

Q. With such prospects, such known routes, and such assets, would 
it have been difficult for that company to have gone into the public 
market and have secured contracts at ordinarily favorable cash rates % — 
A. I think not. I thought there was no excuse for the large amounts 
which I subsequently heard were paid under the Oakes Ames contract. 

Q. With such assets as those which you have been describing, first, 
the subsidies, second, the land-grants, and third, the priority given for 
the first-mortgage bonds, you think that it would have been a just and 
judicious contract to have allowed such profits as you have described — 
one or two hundred per cent.! — A. No. Wlien I made that answer I 
took into consideration the whole road from Omaha to Salt Lake. The 
first one hundred miles was built or commenced while the war was still 
existing, and when there was no way to get material and supplies to 
Omaha, except by the uncertain navigation of the Missouri Eiver. That 
fact, together with the uncertainty of Government and of all sorts of 
securities, would have justified the large compensation to contractors 
who had undertaken to build the road to Salt Lake ; but after the road 
was built to the eastern base of the Rocky Mountains, and after the con- 
dition of the country became settled, and the value of those securities 
became well known, I think that those prices, from $50,000 to $90,000 
a mile, were excessive, and were not, in your language, judicious ; and 
if the old board of Government directors had continued through 1867, 1 
do not think, the Oakes Ames contract would have been executed. But 
we were changed, and of course we knew nothing about it, andmen 
who were not familiar with the road were put in our places. 
By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. In making your estimate what have you supposed to be, in round 
numbers, the entire cost of the road — 1 ,032 miles % — A. As things 



662 CEEDIT M0BILB3R AND UNION PACIFIC RA]LSOAD. 

turned out by the surveys over the mountains, I think that $40,000 a 
mile from Omaha to the terminus of the road would have been suffi- 
cient. 

Q. That would make over $40,000,000. Do you think the road could 
have been built and equipped for that ? — A. Yes, with ordinary equip- 
ment. One of Mr. Williams's objections to the Hoxie contract was that 
it provided for about $5,000 a mile for equipment. Mr. Williams con- 
tended that it should be $10,000 or $12,000 a mile ; and I understand 
he says the road never has had the necessary equipment. 

Q. Forty thousand dollars a mile for that one thousand and thirty- 
two miles would amount to $41,280,000. Assuming that to be the cost 
of the road, do you know of anything which the contractors received 
for constructing it, other than the entire capital stock of the company, 
and the entire proceeds of the first and second mortgage bonds ? — A. 
And the land-grant bonds. 

Q. Did any portion of the land-grant bonds go to pay the contractors; 
did they not all go to the interest account % — A. The land-grant bonds 
were not issued till after I left. I have no personal knowledge about 
them. 

Q. Assuming that the contractors got twenty-seven millions of first- 
mortgage bonds and twenty-seven millions of Government bonds, which 
would be fifty-four millions, and assuming the Government bonds to 
have been sold at ninety-five cents on the dollar, and the first-mortgage 
bonds at an average of eighty-five cents, that would make $48,600,000. 
Now, was the capital stock at the time those gentlemen took it in their 
contract for the road worth more than thirty cents on the dollar f — A. 
No, sir ; I do not think it averaged that. 

Q. The capital stock of $36,000,000 at 30 per cent. w T ould amount to 
$10,800,000. Adding that to the $48,600,000 would produce $59,400,000. 
Now, suppose those gentlemen had got for the construction of the road 
the entire proceeds of the capital stock, the first-mortgage bonds, and 
the second-mortgage bonds, and that all those proceeds were worth 
$59,400,000, and that the road cost them $40,000 a mile, which you 
think was a fair price, and which would amount to $41,280,000, that 
would leave a profit of $18,120,000. Do I understand you to say that 
you would not regard that as an unreasonable profit under the circum- 
stances ? — A. That is more than I should allow. I say now that I should 
not have complained of a profit of from $10,000,000 to $15,000,000. I 
think that a profit of $18,000,000 is more than it should be. 

Q. I understood you to say that, taking the whole road into considera- 
tion, you regarded a profit of one hundred per cent, as not unreasonable, 
and you also mentioned two hundred per cent. But, in reply to another 
question, you said that fifty per cent, would be moderate. Now, this 
profit which I have given is a profit of little more than forty per cent. — 
A. When I spoke of one hundred per cent. I did so without the aid of 
your figures, or of any figures. But I had an impression that these 
contractors had made a profit of twenty or thirty millions of dollars,, 
and I thought that that would be too much. I would be willing to give 
ten or fifteen millions under the circumstances, but when I spoke of & 
hundred per cent, profit I was probably wrong. 

Q. Whether the profit was unreasonable or not would, in your judg- 
ment, depend upon the unusual character of the risk. Suppose that 
the circumstances were as supposed in Mr. Shellabarger's question, that 
is, that they had got the surveys which gave them a knowledge of the 
character of the Evans Pass, was there any additional risk in building 
that road, so far as you know, occasioned by its being in a remote 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 663 

country, or occasioned by any danger of Indian hostilities ? — A. I think 
there was no danger of Indian hostilities after 1865. 

Q. You think that that danger had terminated? — A. Yes, after 1865. 

Q. Was there, in your judgment, any danger to a contractor occa- 
sioned by the fear that those first-mortgage bonds would sink in value 
under sudden panics, or commercial changes, or were they an established 
security which would be sure to maintain themselves year in and year 
out as stocks in a first-class bank or a first-class railroad ? — A. For a 
year or two after the war we were always uncertain. We did not know 
when a money panic would come up. 

Mr. Hoar. I want to be quite certain to get before this committee 
every consideration which we ought to weigh, and therefore I have put 
questions tending rather to one side of the case, with a view of bring- 
ing them to your notice as an impartial witness. Now, what I want to 
know is, whether in the fall of 1857 a good prudent business man and 
railroad contractor would have regarded a promise to pay him in the 
first-mortgage bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad Company as some- 
thing which involved no greater risk than a promise to pay him in or- 
dinary stocks which have a certain value, which they maintain year in 
and year out, or whether these bonds were a security of a more hazard- 
ous nature! — A. They partook of the hazardous nature of all railroad 
securities, but they were not, in the language of insurance men, extra 
hazardous, by any means. 

Q. Can you give us any light upon that point, whether a prudent 
man would have had, and had clearly, a right to add something to the 
profits by reason of the character of the thing in which he was to take 
his pay? — A. These first-mortgage bonds were averaging over 80, 
and I think they were of such a character and standing in the money 
circles of the country that any prudent, careful contractor would have 
risked them, and been perfectly willing to receive them at 80, and 
that was about the average price. 

Q. And the Government bonds were above that price ? — A. I do not 
know. I heard Mr. Cisco say that after the Secretary of the Treasury 
had issued the order about using them for banking purposes, they had 
gone down. There is another thing to be taken into consideration as 
establishing the value of these securities. The Secretary of the Inte- 
rior, Mr. Browning, told us, and leading members of Congress also told 
us, that the public required the road to be built, and that the Govern- 
ment required it to be built, in the most speedy manner, and that all 
that they wanted was, that the company should never call upon Con- 
gress nor on the Government for anything more, but that they were 
willing to spend that. I heard Mr. Browning say so very frequently. 

Q. Do you say that that communication was made known to the di- 
rectors of the company ? — A. No, sir j it was universally known through 
the country. There was no subject in those days, from 1862 to 1868, 
that was more looked at by the public than the building of the Pacific 
Eailroad, and the public was willing that this money should be spent, 
provided the road was built and that the Government was not called on 
for anything more. 

Q. To whom do you mean to say that Mr. Browning told this? — A. 
To the Government directors. We had frequent interviews with him, 
and he enjoined on us to urge the construction of the road forward. 

Q. And said that all the Government cared for was that it should not 
be called on for any further appropriation % — A. Not only the Secretary 
of the Interior said this, but leading members of Congress whom we 
consulted. 



664 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Do you know whether that communication from Mr. Browning 
was known to your associates on the board who were not Government 
directors ? — A. It was not communicated to them by us. This was mere 
verbal conversation with us, and we never communicated it to them; 
but it influenced our action. 

Q. You do not know whether the other directors received the same 
communication or not ? — A. No ; I know that we never communicated 
to them, because we were watching the Credit Mobilier, and watching 
to get low prices. 

Q. Did you, so far as you recollect, report the mode in which this 
provision of law, that the capital stock was to be paid in cash, was 
obeyed or evaded 1 — A. No, sir ; I do not think we ever considered it at 
all. We took early action to have the subscription-books opened in 
every city of the Union, and advertisements published, but no stock was 
subscribed. 

Q. You considered that if the road was built honestly, and at a rea- 
sonable profit, it was of no great consequence whether that provision of 
the law was literally complied with, or not? — A. It was of no great con- 
sequence, because there was a comparatively .small amount of stock 
subscribed. We caused books to be opened in the principal cities of the 
Union, and expensive advertisements published of the opening of those 
books, and I believe that not a dollar was subscribed. That was in the 
spring of 1865. We considered, therefore, that the idea of building the 
road by means of subscription of stock was a failure. Public opinion 
demanded that the road should be built, and built quickly, and our par- 
ticular aim was to urge it on. We always congratulated ourselves that 
the Government directors had expedited the building of the road, and 
that it was built a year or two sooner than it otherwise would have 
been. 

Q. How did Government directors expedite it ? — A. By frequent visits 
out there, and by urging on the contractors and Dr. Durant, by our 
counsels, and reasons, and arguments. 

Q. You think that this remarkably quick construction of the road is 
something in the credit of which the Government directors have a right 
to share %— A. Yes, sir ; they are entitled to some credit for it. That 
was our particular effort, because we believed that we were advancing 
the wishes of the Government, and we knew w T ell that we were advanc- 
ing the wishes of the public. 

Q. And in taking that course, your associate Government directors 
were of the same opinion that you now express, and regarded it as in 
pursuance of express directions from Mr. Browning ? — A. Not of express 
directions, but of wishes expressed by him in private conversations. 
There never was any official notification issued in that respect by the 
Interior Department, but Mr. Browning talked it over with us occasion- 
ally. 

By Mr. Ashton, (representing the Government:) 
Q. Where did the directors meet in New York 1— A. In the first place 
in William street, opposite Delmonico's, and afterward at 30 Nassau 
street. We had rooms there, and the Credit Mobilier had rooms also. 
Q. Have you been over the road lately ? — A. No, sir ; I have not. 
Q. Do you know its condition ? — A. No, sir. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. Mr. Poppleton asks me to call your attention to the fact whether 
in July and August, 1867, two of your engineers were not killed by the 
Indians, near Cheyenne, and whether some of your conductors were not 



CREDIT M0BILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 665 

killed and scalped, aud trains burned ?— A. I recollect the fact that he 
alludes to, but I think it was before that time. 

Mr. Poppleton. The train was burned on the 7th of August, 1867, 
and Mr. Hills, the engineer, was shot by an Indian on the 3d of July, 
1867. 

Witness. I spoke only from recollection. My recollection of the In- 
dian troubles was in 1865, when the surveying parties were driven from 
the Black Hills by Indians. I know that there were some items of 
expenses for employing Pawnee Indians in guarding the surveying par- 
ties. My impression was that it was in 1865. 



Washington, D. C, February 11, 1873. 

Horace F. Clark recalled. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. At the time, or shortly before, you became president of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company, how much stock did you purchase ? — 
Answer, I purchased upward of 25,000 or 30,000 shares. I think I pur- 
chased, with some friends, perhaps 40,000 shares in all. 

Q. Can you state .to the committee from whom that stock was ac- 
quired?— A. I took a "call" for, I think, 24,000 or 25,000 shares, at 
sixty days. I took that call before the books were closed for the elec- 
tion of March, 1872 j and I made the call. This was in addition to the 
stock bought in the open market. 

Q. The short of it is, you bought 25,000 or 30,000 shares, and made k 
contract by which you were entitled to buy in 24,000 or 25,000 shares 
more ? — A. Yes ; in conjunction with friends. 

Q. With whom did you have this transaction, which you have denom- 
inated a call ? — A. That call was negotiated, I think, with Mr. Morton, 
of the firm of Morton, Bliss & Co. The parties interested in the call 
with me were Mr. Augustus Schell and Mr. James H. Banker, of New 
York. The signers to the call were several. I do not know who, in all 
cases, were behind them. I can name some of them. 

Q. Please to name them. — A. Mr. Morton was one of them. There 
was a Boston house, whose name I do not recollect. I think that Mr. 
Duff was one of the men who signed the call. I think Mr Oakes Ames 
was one. I think that Oliver Ames & Sons and Samuel Hooper & Co. 
were signers to the call. I think that F. Gordon Dexter was one, and a 
house in New York, whose name has escaped my memory. I made the 
call, and took the stock. 

Q. Those parties, whom you have named, were they the parties who 
were to furnish you with the stock when you called for it? — A. They 
undertook to deliver me that stock at a fixed price at the expiration of 
sixty days, on a day certain. 

Q. What was the price at which you were to take that stock ? — A. I 
think at 30, but I may be mistaken. It was somewhat less than the 
market-price, as is always the case with calls. 

Q. Did you call for that stock before or after the election of March, 
1872 ? — A. After ; because I would not have made the call if the elec- 
tion had resulted otherwise than as it did. 

Q. What object did you have in view in making this purchase of stock 
and in becoming president of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company? — A. 
I am connected with a line of railroad leading from the Missouri River 
through Chicago, Cleveland, and Buffalo to Albany and Boston. I was 



666 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

president of the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern Eailway Company, 
which fills up the gap from Chicago to Buffalo. I was a director in the 
New York Central and Hudson Eiver Eailroad Company, which fills up 
the gap between Buffalo and New York. Mr. Scott had previously been 
the president of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. He represented 
the Pennsylvania Eailroad, which is an opposition line to the lines with 
which I am connected. From Chicago they reach the sea-coast by 
Philadelphia, by the Fort Wayne road. My object in interesting 
myself in the Union Pacific Eailroad Company was to share in the 
traffic arrangements. We might get none of the traffic of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company by the way of our lines if the control of 
that road was in the hands of a competing line. That was the induce- 
ment. My inducement to make the call was that (never taking 
any compensation in the way of salary) I wanted the advantage 
which would result from the participation in the traffic of this 
railroad. Boston is reached by rail through our lines; it is not 
reached by continuous rail through any other lines. It seemed ' 
to me as if tea and silks, and various articles of merchandise, could be 
carried to Boston, which is a great point of consumption, and a great 
point of export by rail, if the rail-line to the sea-board was open. My 
object in making the call was that I might share in the prosperity of 
the road, which would result from the opening of this rail-line ; and I 
made the call. Whether the parties who sold me the call had the stock 
or not, was a point which I did not inquire about. They were respon- 
sible parties, and if they did not have the stock they were bound to buy 
it in the market. My object in having anything to do with the line 
was in connection with railroad traffic. I knew nothing about the Credit 
Mobilier. I had heard that there had been a construction ring in that 
road, but what had been the effect of it I did not know. My object in 
taking the call was to get the advantage, which some thought might 
result from the increase in the value of the stock, from the change of 
administration, 

Q. Was it your purpose in making that purchase of stock, or was 
there an arrangement when the stock was purchased, that you should 
become president of that road ? — A. There was. 

Q. By whom was that arrangement made ? — A. I think the negotia- 
tions for that arrangement were made between Mr. Morton and Mr. 
Banker. 

Q. Who were the parties behind them ? — A. I do not know them all. 
I think that among the parties were some of these Boston parties. Mr. 
Morton only became responsible under the call to a limited amount. 
The Messrs. Ames joined in the call, but in what sums I do not remem- 
ber. The total amount was 24,000 or 25,000 shares, at 30. 

Q. The arrangement which was made for that purchase of stock re- 
sulted in your coming into the presidency of the road ? — A. Yes ; be- 
cause then I said to the stockholders that I would take their proxies, 
and the stockholders sent their proxies to me. I had not, with my 
friends, stock enough myself to control the election, or anything like it. 

Q. Do you know whether, the year preceding, Mr. Scott became presi- 
dent of the road, under a similar arrangement ? — A. I know nothing 
about it. I have heard statements about it, but I have no knowledge 
on the subject. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. State how many lines there are in the East taking traffic from the 
interior to the sea-board which would be properly denominated great 
competing lines, — A. In the first place, take the lines from the Missouri 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 667 

Eiver east to Chicago, the great competing point ; there are two lines 
of railroads — the Chicago and Eock Island and the Chicago and North- 
western Eailroad Companies, of about equal length, running substantially 
parallel with each other. There is another line, which at that time had 
no actual connection with the Union Pacific Eailroad. That is the Chi- 
cago, Burlington and Quincy Eailroad ; but that connection has since 
been made, so that in fact you may say that there are three competing 
lines irom the Missouri Eiver to Chicago. On reaching Chicago there 
are four competing lines for freight — the Lake Shore and Michigan 
Southern Eailway, connecting with the New York Central and Hudson 
Eiver at Buffalo, and at Albany with the Boston and Albany Eailroad 
for Boston. In that line I have an interest. There is the line connect- 
ing Philadelphia with Chicago by the Fort Wayne and Chicago Eail- 
road. By the acquisition by the Pennsylvania Eailroad of the New 
Jersey roads, that line reaches Jersey City. There is the line from Chi- 
cago by the Michigan Central, connecting there with the Grand Trunk 
Eailway around to Portland and Boston. And in addition there is the 
line by the Michigan Central, from Chicago to the Detroit Eiver, there 
connecting with the Great Western of Canada, and meeting at Suspen- 
sion Bridge the New York Central and the New York and Erie. From 
the line of the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern Eailway there are 
several diversions. In Ohio, east of Toledo, a diversion takes place to 
the Baltimore and Ohio road, which reaches the sea-board at Baltimore. 
Coming on east to Cleveland, you reach the Ohio Eiver by another 
connection. At Erie, Pennsylvania, there is another diversion by the 
Philadelphia and Erie to Philadelphia. At Dunkirk, in New York 
State, on the Lake Shore road, you strike the Dunkirk terminus of the 
Erie Eailway. 

Q. I only want to get some general notion of the competing lines 
reaching the sea-coast at Portland or by the Saint Lawrence Eiver, at 
Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and Baltimore — the competing lines 
connecting with the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. — A. I complete 
my statement as to sea-board lines when I say that from Buffalo east 
the New York Central and the Erie Eailway are the great competing 
lines. The lines to Massachusetts are by the Grand Trunk and the 
New York Central. The Baltimore and Ohio makes a line to New 
England by propellers from Baltimore $ and the Pennsylvania road also 
makes a line to New England from its terminus in New Jersey. 

Q. Then, for such of the commerce of Europe as should go over the 
Union Pacific Eailroad there would be in the course of business a com- 
petition between the Saint Lawrence Eiver, Portland, Boston, New 
York, Philadelphia, and Baltimore as the points of export 1 — A. Yes ; 
either as the points of export or of import. 

Q. Would the possession by either of those lines of the control of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad give it the advantage over its competitors, if it 
chose to exercise that advantage ? — A. Boston is a great place of ex- 
port, and is a place of considerable import ; but New York is the great 
point of import ; and the interests of the Union Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany would be subserved by having her immediate freight connections 
with those ports at which there are the largest imports. 

Q. I repeat my question : Would the possession of the control of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad by any one of those lines give that line an ad- 
Tantage over its rivals and competitors; and could it use such advan- 

t Nge to the detriment of its rivals ?— A. Not by fair action. 

£.- Could it by any action ?— A. I think it might by a discrimination 

of ratt^ 



668 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Should you have regarded the continued possession and control 
©f the Union Pacific Eailroad by Mr. Scott as rendering it possible that 
the roads that you were interested in might suffer in that particular ? — 
A. Perhaps so ; but I do not know that any unjust advantage was 
taken during his administration, and none has been taken since. This 
through freight is squabbled for on the west coast and beyond. The 
road has been open, without discrimination, to all the lines. The Bos- 
ton merchant, for instance, would direct that his consignment of tea 
should come by that line by which it could reach him with an unbroken 
rail. 

Q. Therefore, if it required a breaking of the rail to take the tea to 
Boston, and did not require a breaking of the rail to take it to Balti- 
more, and if there was a competition for the export of tea to Europe, 
Baltimore would get the advantage to that extent ? — A. Baltimore would 
get it provided the course of trade put her on a level with New York 
and Boston ; but it does not. The Boston merchants get some tea by 
rail. It also comes to them by Cape Horn. 

Q. Mr. Sherman, formerly Government director of Union Pacific Eail- 
road Company, stated last night that he was of opinion that, if that 
road had never been completed through the Bocky Mountains, the por- 
tion embraced in the Hoxie and Boomer contracts — that is, all up to 
the beginning of the Oakes Ames contract, and, some portion beyond — 
would have furnished local traffic sufficient to pay the interest on the 
first-mortgage bonds. What is your opinion in regard to that ? — A. I 
think he is mistaken on the subject, and that the statistics of the traffic 
of the road would prove it. 

Q. My question to Mr. Sherman was for the purpose of learning 
whethef the first-mortgage bonds would have had any value if the road 
had not been entirely completed f — A. I do not think they would have 
been of value. I do not think that any part of that road can even now 
earn, with its local traffic, enough to pay its running expenses without 
incurring the hazard of crushing out that traffic by extravagant prices. 



Washington, D. C, February 11, 1873. 

Peter A. Dey recalled and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Please state again when you became chief engineer of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad.—- Answer. On the 30th of December, 1863. 

Q. How long did you continue?— A. I resigned the 30th of December, 
1864. 

Q. How much of the line did you examine as the engineer of the 
company during the time you acted as such ?— A. I examined the whole 
line from Salt Lake Valley to Omaha. I did not get the instrumental 
surveys of a point between the hundredth meridian and the foot of the 
Black Hills. I did not do that, because it was a level plain, and I pre- 
ferred devoting my time to those parts of the road where an examina- 
tion was necessary. 

Q. On this portion of the line where you say you did not get instru- 
mental surveys, were there any serious natural obstacles to the con- 
struction of the road, and state the character of the country ?— A. It 
was a plain— a broad valley— and with very little, if any, obstacles to 
the building of the road. 

Q. After having examined the line of the road, did you make any 



CREDIT M0BILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 669 

estimate as to what the road could be constructed for ; and if so, what 
was that estimate, and to whom did you communicate it f — A. I made a> 
rough estimate, and stated my views with regard to it to Mr. Durant, 
who was vice-president of the road. 

Q. Did you to any other person? — A. I cannot recall now, it is so long 
ago. I know I did state them to others, but I cannot exactly state now 
who they were. 

Q. What was the character of that estimate ? — A. It was only ap- 
proximate, not close at all. 

Q. How was the estimate made up; in figures? — A. Yes, sir; in 
figures and in quantities. 

Q. And at that time what did you estimate this road could be built 
for t — A. My estimate was that it could be built in cash for $40,000,000. 

Q. Did you regard that as a liberal estimate? — A. I thought those 
figures would cover it. 

Q. Did you take into account contingencies in regard to transporta- 
tion and the time of construction ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you know anything about the execution of the Hoxie contract % 
and if so, state what you did with reference to it.— A. I had a copy of 
the contract furnished me, in November, 1864. I looked it over, ex- 
amined it very carefully, and thought a great deal over its provisions. 
On the 8th of December, 1864, 1 tendered my resignation as engineer of 
the road, and gave my reasons for it. They were that I objected to being 
an instrument to carry out the provisions of that contract. 

Q. Have you a copy of the letter tendering your resignation ? — A. I 
have. 

Q. Will you produce it to the committee? — A. This is it : 

" Engineer's Office, Union Pacific Eailroad, 

" Omaha, December 7, 1864. 
" Dear Sir : I hereby tender you my resignation as chief engineer 
of the Union Pacific Eailroad, to take effect December 30, 1864, one year 
from the date of my appointment. I am induced to delay until that 
time that I might combine the results of surveys of the present year and 
present them to the company and to myself iii a satisfactory manner. 
My reasons for this step are simply that' I do not approve of the con- 
tract made with Mr. Hoxie for building the first hundred miles from 
Omaha west, and I do not care to have my name so connected with the 
railroad that I shall appear to indorse this contract. Wishing for the 
road success beyond the expectation of its members, 
"I am, respectfully, yours, 

" PETEE A. DEY. 
" Hou. John A. Dix." 

Q. Did you send the letter of which this is a copy to General Dix? — 
A. I did. 

Q. Was your resignation accepted ! — A. "Not that I know of. 

Q. Did you write any other letter to General Dix % — A. On the same 
day that I wrote the letter I have just read to you I wrote and inclosed 
in the same envelope the following : 

" Omaha, December 7, 1864. 

" Dear Sir : With this I send you my resignation as chief engineer 

of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. My reasons I have given. I 

received the contract nearly a month ago. When I first read it I felt 

that it was made against my known views, and I could not be held in 



670 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

any measure responsible for it, but it has since been a constantly re- 
curring subject of thought to me, and I am not now satisfied that I shall 
be able to acquit myself of all blame if I become an instrument of its 
execution. You know the history of the M. and M. road, a road that 
to-day could be running to this point if its stock and bonds only repre- 
sented the amount of, cash that actually went into it. My views of 
the Pacific Eailroad are perhaps peculiar. I look upon its managers as 
trustees Of the bounty of Congress. I cannot willingly see them repeat 
the history of the M. and M. by taking a step in the incipiency of the pro- 
ject that will, I believe, if followed out, swell the cost of construction so 
much that by the time the work reaches the mountains the representative 
capital will be accumulated so much that at the very time when the com- 
pany will have need for ail its resources, as well of capital as of credit, its 
securities will not be negotiable in the market. From my boyhood, I 
have associated Mr. Cisco and yourself with Mr. Bronson and Mr. Flagg, 
men whose integrity, purity, and singleness of purpose have made them 
marked men in the generation in which they lived. Of course my 
opinion remains unchanged. You are doubtless uninformed how dis- 
proportionate the amount to be paid is to the work contracted for. I 
need not expatiate upon the sincerity of my course when you reflect 
upon the fact that I have resigned the best position in my profession 
this country has ever oifered to any man. 
" With respect, 

"PETER A. DEY. 
"Hon. John A. Dix. 77 

Q. What road is referred to as the M. and M. road? — A. It is the 
Mississippi and Missouri road. 

Q. Do you know whether or not these letters were received by Gen- 
eral Dix I — A. Yes ; I know they were. 

Q. Have you a reply from him to this last letter? — A. Yes, sir ; this 
as it : 

" New York, February 27, 1865. 

" My Dear Sir : Your resignation was duly received and should have 
been acknowledged. Your private letter was also received. I should 
be glad to confer with you on the whole subject, and trust the oppor- 
tunity will soon occur, as I think your presence will be necessary. The 
Government has been very liberal in its provisions for the Union Pa- 
cific Railroad except in one particular, the one in regard to which I have 
always been most anxious. The bonds which it proposes to issue to us 
are not gold interest bearing bonds; on the contrary, the interest is paya- 
ble in currency. We cannot get over 90 per cent, for them, and they are 
our only means of going on with the work. Under these circumstances 
we did the best we could. The arrangements for the first hundred 
miles had the approval of the Government directors. On the Missis- 
sippi and Missouri road we had the same difficulty. The work was 
carried on by the proceeds of bonds sold greatly below par ; but all 
these matters are better explained by verbal communications. To go 
to another subject, I sent you some Iowa coupons some years ago; 
I think they are not all paid ; if any are left in your bands will you 
please forward them ! 

" Believe me, truly, yours, 

"JOHN A. DIX." 

Q. Have you any further letters from General Dix on that subject?— 
A. Yes, sir. 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 671 

Q. Please read it. 

A. " New York, April 29, 1865.. 

" My Dear Sir : I wrote you some weeks ago stating that the contract 
for the first hundred miles of the Union Pacific Eailroad was approved 
by the Government directors. I alluded to the directors in office when 
the contract was made. I put it into their hands, and as they made no 
objection I presume they approved it. It was very clear at the time a 
better one could not have been made. I write to you now to say that 
this contract has always been under our control, and that there is on file 
an agreement on the part of the contractor to surrender it on being paid 
the amount he has expended. I should be glad to know whether a bet- 
ter arrangement can be made, as the directors are ready to adopt any 
other which shall save money to the company. I shall be much obliged 
to you for any suggestions on the subject. 
" I am yours, trulv, 

" JOHN A. DIX. 

" Peter A. Dey, Esq." 

Q. What further have you on the subject ! — A. I have this : 

« New York City, May 10, I860. 

" Dear Sir : Yours is received. The coupons came safely. I beg 
you to accept my thanks. The agreement on the part of Hoxie's agent 
here, to give up the contract at any time, was made to me when I sent 
the letter. It was drawn up subsequently in a formal document and 
signed by Hoxie himself. 

" In haste, yours, truly, 

" JOHN A. DIX. 

" Peter A. Dey, Esq. 

u P. S. — All the subscribers to the stock of the Union Pacific have been 
invited to become parties to the contract. The major part of them have 
done so, and if there are any profits in the contract, those who have put 
their money in the road will participate in them. 

Q. What were the objections that you made to the Hoxie contract? — 
A. My objections to the Hoxie contract were that it was letting the 
work for $2,000,000 more than it ought to Jiave been let for. That was 
the first objection I had ; the second objection was that it absorbed the 
first-mortgage bonds, the Government bonds, and the land-grant bonds, 
or, in other words, that it absorbed everything the company could have 
in the shape of resources at once, on the start. Its tendency was, in 
starting out, to accumulate an immense indebtedness, which I thought 
would weigh down the project — would ruin it. My experience in rail- 
road-building had been that in the early stages of a road it should not 
be burdened with debt ; that only those roads succeeded that were man- 
aged with the most rigid economy in the incipiency. 

Q. Have you a copy of that contract % — A. I have. 

Q. I wish you would refer to it and point out to the committee 
those features of it which you regard as being most objectionable. — A. 
The first thing that struck me at the time was this : "The contractor 
shall not be required to expend, in the construction of any one bridge, 
over $85,000." Now there was one bridge that would have cost over 
$100,000, but a change was made in the direction of the road so that it 
did not come in the first hundred miles. It would have come in the 
original course of the road, and that was why that provision was put 
in. The contract says : " Nor shall he be reojiired to expend for the 
erection of station-buildings, machinery, machine-shops, tanks, equip- 



672 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC KAILROAD. ' 

ment, &c, more than $5,000 per mile." Now at that time, during the 
last year of the war, it was impossible to equip a road as it should be 
equipped, building stations, machinery, machine-shops, tanks, equip- 
ment, and about everything else there is to a road, except the grading, 
ties, and track, at $5,000 a mile, or $500,000 for the one hundred miles, 
Now, in addition to this, the contract says : "Any excess in the cost of 
iron above $130 per ton at Omaha, to be allowed by the company." 
That fixes the iron delivered at the initial point at $130 a ton, or $13,000 
per mile. The company agreed to pay to Hoxie $50,000 for each mile 
completed. Now, then, $5,000 is to be paid for everything but ties, 
iron, and grading 5 the iron is to be $13,000 a mile, leaving the balance 
of the $50,000 almost entirely for grading and ties. Another feature 
that struck me was this : " Payment to be made as the work progresses, 
upon the estimate of the engineer, in making which the engineer will 
deduct from each section its proportion of the cost of equipment not 
then furnished, station-buildings, superstructure, and cost of telegraph 
lines, &c. ; but all material delivered or in transit on account of the 
company may be estimated for.' 7 

I see in Mr. Durant's report this has been carried out. For instance, 
where there were ten miles of grading they estimated it at $500,000, less 
$13,000 a mile for iron, and $5,000 a mile for rolling-stock, station-build- 
ings, &c. Now, the contract says : u In the mean time, if required, the 
company to execute certificates to an amount to correspond to the first- 
mortgage and Government bonds, and exchangeable for the same, upon 
the company obtaining the United States bonds, said certificates to bear 
interest payable semi-annually at the rate of 6 per cent, per annum. On 
these certificates the contractor is to advance, or procure to be advanced, 
the necessary funds to the company at the rate of 80 per cent, on the 
par value of its Government and firstrmortgage bonds, and on the land- 
grant bonds 70 per cent., reserving the right to dispose of them when- 
ever the amount so advanced, including the amount due on construc- 
tion, shall exceed $500,000, or whenever said advances shall have been 
made over four months, but not to do so for less than the price above 
named ; the company to decide at their option whether to take the bonds 
or any portion of them, at the price above named, in payment of advances 
or interest, if called upon to do so, within thirty days thereafter." These 
are some of the features of the contract that I desire to call attention to. 
Now Mr. Hoxie is notified, on the 25th of September, 1864, by George 
T. M. Davis, of the executive committee, to go to work on this contract, 
and then, afterward, the above contract is approved and ratified Janu- 
ary 1, by John A. Dix, O. S. Bushneil, and G. T. M. Davis, special com- 
mittee appointed for that purpose. That is rather an unusual method 
of making contracts, by special committee. In other words, this con- 
tract, by taking the securities at the price named, would bring the cost 
to over $60,000 per mile— about $62,000, I think. 

Q. At that time, what, in your judgment, would have been a fair 
price for constructing the one hundred miles of road that is embraced 
in the Hoxie contract? — A. I think a liberal price would have been 
about $30,000 a mile. 

Q. Do you know what it actually cost to construct it ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. What was your estimate as to the cost of that portion of the road 
from the terminus of this one hundred miles to the one hundredth merid- 
ian ? — A. My figures for that portion were abput $27,000 a mile. 

Q. Do you think the road could have been constructed for that? — A. 
I do. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 673 

Q. Under all the circumstances that were surrounding it? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Do you mean $27,000 a mile cash? — A. Yes, sir; I am speaking 
of cash when I speak of values. 

Q. That including all the equipments of a first-class road? — A. Yes, 
sir; all that was necessary to run it. Perhaps I ought to say here, by 
way of explanation, that the company has erected at the North Platte 
very expensive machine-shops. The cost of modern machine and car 
shops for a large railroad is not less than half a million of dollars, and 
I do not include that in my estimate of expenditures. 

By Mr. Shellabargker : 

Q. Do you mean now to say that, included in this outlay, which you 
say amounted to $62,000 a mile, the company procured certain machine- 
shops? — A. No, sir; they were not included in the $62,000 at all. But 
when you ask me what it costs to build a railroad, 1 want to explain 
that the amount I have given did not include these shops. Those shops 
were not, however, built under the Hoxie contract. 

Q. Had surveys and estimates of quantities and values been made 
and submitted to the company by its engineer prior to the letting of the 
Hoxie contract? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What did those estimates show the cost of the work to be for the 
first hundred miles, as near as you can recollect? — A. About $30,000 a 
mile. 

Q. What assets had the road at that date, immediately prior to the 
Hoxie contract, available for the purpose of securing money to pay for 
the work on that contract? — A. Thev had stock subscriptions of over 
$2,000,000. 

Q. What else? — A. They had, I think, the right of way the entire 
distance of the line. 

Q. And did they not also have the right to first and second mortgage 
bonds as the work progressed? — A. As the work progressed they were 
entitled to the first-mortgage bonds and to the Government bonds. At 
the same time it is not railroad policy to issue those bonds on- the mar- 
ket in advance. 

Q. Did you, as an officer of the road, at that time suggest or advocate 
in any way the enforcement of calls upon stock subscriptions? — A. I 
did, sir. 

Q. Did your counsels in that regard prevail with the company? — A. 
No, sir ; not at all. 

Q. What were the reasons, so far as you may know, why the board 
at that time failed to comply with the requirement of the charter in re- 
gard to stock subscriptions in money? — A. I took the position that, 
under the charter, these subscriptions must be paid in money, and the 
views of the officers of the company were that they could come in as 
payment on these contracts. 

Q. How could stock subscriptions come in as payment on these con- 
tracts unless the subscribers to the stock were the parties doing the 
work under the contract?— A. I differed with those gentlemen in the 
interpretation of the law. 

Q. At that date, however, no arrangement had been made whereby 
the contract was to be executed in the interest of the original stock 
subscribers, who had subscribed these two million and odd dollars at 
that date?— A. No, sir; 1 think there might have been an understand- 
ing to that effect, but it was not known. I did not know it until 1 was 
notified ot it in this letter I have shown you. 
43 C M 



674 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Did the directors inform you how they had arranged to do the 
■work to pay these original stock subscriptions? — A. That is a question 
that was not raised in that shape exactly. 

Q. Do you know what became of those estimates which covered that 
one hundred miles, and also any and all other estimates and surveys 
that may have been made by you to the board prior to your resigna- 
tion ? — A. No, sir ; I do not. 

Q. Have you ever seen them since? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did they show to any extent the profile of the road ! — A. Yes, 
sir ; there was a profile with them. I put a price on everything — on the 
excavations, bridges, engines, cars, and almost everything connected 
with the road complete. I put on the prices that were ruling at that 
day. 

Q. Now from the hundredth meridian westward what surveys and esti- 
mates had been made by you and reported to the company prior to 
your resignation? — A. From the hundredth meridian to the foot of the 
Black Hills I made no surveys, but from the foot of the Black Hills to 
Salt Lake I had a continuous profile. 

Q. How did the character of the country as to natural difficulties of 
construction from the hundredth meridian to the foot of the Black Hills 
compare, on an average, with that portion east of the hundredth meri- 
dian ? — A. For a large portion of the distance it was about the same. 
As you approach the Black Hills there are occasional points that would 
require excavations. It was a little more expensive as you approached 
the Black Hills. The road is a straight line from, Loop Fork Biver 
west. 

Q. Where is Loop Fork Biver ? — A. Very near the end of the first 
hundred miles. From that point there are one hundred and four miles 
on which there is not a cut nor an embankment exceeding six feet. From 
that point westward the road is about the same until you approach the 
Black Hills. 

Q. What is the distance from the hundredth meridian to the Black 
Hills?— A. About 270 miles. 

Q. Had you reported to the road any approximate of the cost per mile 
from the hundredth meridian to the foot of the Black Hills prior to your 
resignation ? and if so, state what that estimate was. — A. I told them 
that it would cost very little more than the work back of it, of which 1 
had furnished profiles. 

Q. In your answer to the chairman you stated that your estimate of 
the cost, including the equipment and everything that was necessary to 
entitle them to the Government subsidy, would be $40,000 a mile; you 
meant by that to the western terminus of the road ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In that estimate of $40,000 a mile, what particular pass through 
the mountain range did you adopt as the one upon which your estimate 
was based ? — A. The one at the head of Lodge Pole Creek. 

Q. In the report made by Mr. Williams to the Secretary of the Inte- 
rior, dated November 23, 1866, page 14, Senate document No. 2, special 
session, he says : "By these surveys, continued now through three years, 
ten distinct points of crossing have been examined. They have been run 
with level and transit, and all afford reasonable hope of practicability ." 
Among those ten passes is one called "Eoute No. 7," following the divide 
between Crow Creek and Lone Tree Creek and Evans's Pass. It appears 
also from this report that "Route No. 7" was the one that was adopted? 
— A. It was ; yes, sir. 

Q. In your estimate of $40,000 per mile, would you make any change 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 675 

owing to the now known character of that pass ? — A. Yes, sir ; I 
should. 

Q. What change would, you make? — A. My recollection is that I ex- 
pected to expend between two and three million dollars in tunneling the 
Black Hills. 

Q. Was any such tunneling in fact found necessary ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. What change would you make in the amount of your estimate per 
mile, owing to the favorable character of the Evans Pass? — A. I sup- 
pose I would deduct $2,000 a mile for the whole length of the road. 

Q. Did you make any of the surveys spoken of by Mr. Williams f — 
A. Yes, sir ; I made three of them. 

Q. Did you ever survey the particular pass that was adopted ? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. Had you any personal knowledge of the character of it from ob- 
servation f — A. No, sir. It has been stated here by almost every gentle- 
man who has spoken on the subject, that the Evans Pass was a purely 
accidental finding. Now there is no such thing as an accidental finding 
of a route where surveys are completely made. I asked Mr. Evans, in 
18G4, to run what is called a crest-line over the summit of the Black 
Hills from the Cache la Poudre, covering the crest of the ridge. If he 
had been enabled to make that he would have discovered the Evans 
Pass that year ; but in that portion of the Black Hills the Indians were 
very troublesome, and he was unable to get military protection. He 
could not keep his teamsters ; his men were afraid, and he had to aban- 
don it. But by running a crest-line that depression would have been 
discovered. 

Q. State whether, considering" the conditions and circumstances under 
which that work was conducted from the time you became connected 
with it onward to its completion, there were any practical difficulties or 
business objections to contracts being let, upon and after actual surveys 
of the whole line. — A. No, sir; there was not. There was no reason 
why this line should not have been Jet in contracts of ten miles each, 
which was probably done by the men who got the contract. This con- 
tracting company didu't go on and do the work. They sub-let it, as the 
railroad company should have done, in small portions, to workmen. The 
company could have done this, too, if they had had the money. 

Q. Did you recommend that policy instead of letting an unsurveyed 
road ? — A. I advocated the policy of the company letting its own work 
to contractors, to the men that did the work. 

Q. And that upon actual surveys? — A. Yes, sir; I never let a piece 
of work on anything else. 

Q. When the Hoxie contract was let had there been actual surveys 
and estimates made of the one hundred miles embraced in that con- 
tract?— A. There had. 

Q. Do yon remember what the estimated cost of construction was ? — 
A. My recollection was that it was about $30,000 a mile. 

Q. Had there been estimates made as to the cost of construction from 
the Hoxie contract to the hundredth meridian? — A. There had been 
estimates made for the second hundred miles — I think $27,000 a mile 
were the figures. 

■ Q. In your answer to the committee on the 22d January, 1873, you 
say that John E. Henry, who was a kind of superintendent of the con- 
struction company, came on from New York with orders to make a large 
estimate. Now state, if you can, more fully, what directions you re- 
ceived about that estimate and how it should be made. — A. It was to 



676 CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

be made larger than I had deemed necessary in my former estimate* 
There was a heavy embankment away up the Platte Valley. 

Q. Was the length and character of that embankment described in 
the verbal instructions delivered to you by Henry ? — A. I think it was. 

Q. Was it claimed by him that the embankment was in fact required 
in the proper construction of the road f — A. No, sir; I think there was 
to be an embankment 4 or 5 feet more than was necessary for the dis- 
tance of seventy miles. 

Q. How much in the aggregate, as near as you can tell, did that aug- 
ment the cost of construction of the road ? — A. About $2,800,000. 

Q. Was that made before or after the Hoxie contract? — A. It was 
made before. 

Q. Do you know whether the Hoxie contract was let with reference to 
that estimate made in pursuance of instructions from Henry % — A. I 
do not know ; I think it was. 

Q. What reasons have you for thinking it was % — A. Because it very 
nearly coincided in amount with the Hoxie contract. 

Q. Do you know whether the officers of the road, or any of them, were 
in possession, at the date of the Hoxie contract, of knowledge of the 
fact that those estimates were made too high and in obedience to in- 
structions from Henry % — A. I know this, that those instructions to make 
that estimate came through Mr. Durant, who was vice-president of the 
road. How far other members of the company were cognizant of the 
fact I do not know. -, 

Q. How are you able to state that Durant knew of those instruc- 
tions and of the action had under them % — A. My instructions came in 
the shape of a verbal order from Mr. Durant. Mr. Henry was in the 
habit of bringing instructions from Mr. Durant. He was in !New York 
often er than I was. 

Qf. And the unwillingness of which you have spoken, and to which 
you alluded in your letter to General Dix, to proceed with the execution 
of the Hoxie contract, arose from the fact of your having made those 
surveys and estimates under Henry's direction? — A. Yes, sir; it had 
for this reason: I wanted to clear myself of any responsibility from 
making a misrepresentation in the case. I do not know whether I make 
myself understood, but I thought my resignation might possibly call 
out the fact that it was> made under my estimate, and it would then 
give me a chance of explaining how and why that estimate was made. 

Q. Did you so explain % — A. No, I did not, for I was not called upon* 
I had reason to believe that General Dix knew as much about that as I 
did. 



Washington, February 12, 1873. 

Oliver J. Dickey sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. If you desire to make any statement, the committee will 
give you an opportunity to do so. — Answer. I desire to state generally 
that I went into the office of Mr. Stevens in August, 1846, and remained 
with him until 1857. During that period we were engaged in a very large 
and, to Mr. Stevens, a very lucrative practice. I was the junior partner, 
and it was not so profitable to me. Probably be realized never less than 
$8,5C0and ashi^h as $17,500 a ^ ear. Alter 1S57, when he came to Con- 
gress, lie still had young men in his office to keep up such practice as he 
could attend to in the intervals of Congress, but his practice fell off im 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 677 

mensely, and from 1S60 I do not think it exceeded $2,500 a year, although 
he was engaged in one or two cases that paid him good faes. I have 
examined, as his executor, his bank-account, more especially from 1861 
down to the time of his death, and 1 do not find any 'deposit in that 
bank-account exceeding ten thousand dollars, with a single exception, 
and that was the proceeds of a mortgage that he put upon his farm in 
Franklin County. I find no cash deposit, not the result of a discount 
or money from a client, for any amount exceeding $7,000, that I am not 
able to trace. Mr. Stevens was a man that kept no private accounts. 
His furnace accounts were kept with' great exactitude, and monthly and 
yearly balances made out. Individually he kept no account except his 
account in the bank and his checks drawn against that account. 

Q. What is the date of the $7,000 item ? — A. I do not remember, but 
there are several items in his bank-account running up into that neigh- 
borhood. There is nothing in that bank-account in the way of a draft 
or check upon Washington, except four drafts upon Mr. Ordway, which 
I presume was part of his pay. That seemed to be the only money he 
ever took home from Washington. Mr. Stevens was the owner of a 
large real estate in Pennsylvania known as the Caledonia Furnace prop- 
erty, and the Maria Furnace property, most of which he acquired prior 
to 1830 in partnership. He subsequently bought out his partners. He 
was the owner of eight-tenths of a large number of tracts of land in 
Luzerne and Wyoming Counties, titles to part of which he lost by non- 
payment of taxes, part of which he sold after he came in Congress, and 
sold for cash, and these largest credits on his bank-account, 1 think, are 
the proceeds of those sales. When he died he still had some 2,500 or 
3,000 acres of land there. 

Q. About what time did he make those sales! — A. I think about 1860 
or 1861. They were very valuable coal-lands, and were all acquired by 
Mr. Stevens prior to his moving to Lancaster in 1812. The only other 
real estate he possessed was a house and lot in Lancaster, and a cow-lot 
outside the city. He had owned a farm in Vermont, which he bought 
early in life, on which his mother resided, and at her death he sold it. 
The inventory of his personal estate shows that he died possessed of an 
estate of $18,616.85, against which we have paid debts to the amount 
of about $20,000, and we have paid off his specific legacies, knowing 
that his real estate was good, and we have litigation in regard to a sub- 
scription to the stock of a railroad, which he made with the understand- 
ing that the railroad was to pass by his property. After he died they 
changed the location, and want us to pay the subscription, which we 
refused to do. If we are compelled to pay this subscription, Mr. Ste- 
vens's personal estate will be considerably inadequate to pay his debts. 
I have seen it published in the newspapers that Mr. Stevens sold the 
Caledonia property for $80,000 in Pacific Railroad bonds. Mr. Stevens 
always asked $160,000 for that property, and we are now negotiating 
its sale for $130,000, and we have not sold i't yet, 

Q. Do you know of the sale of any property by Mr. Stevens to any per- 
son connected with the Union Pacific Railroad, or to any person active 
in procuring legislation in its behalf? — A. I do not. I do know what 
may have given rise to this rumor. He did sell two tracts of land in 
Luzerne County to Mr. John F. Cowan, the whole consideration of which 
was $20,000. After his death Cowan instituted suit on the ground that 
the title was not good, and claimed certain bonds that he had given 
Mr. Stevens as consideration, showing an agreement in the handwriting 
of Mr. Stevens agreeing to convey those tracts. I compromised the 
matter with him, taking back the land, and have since disposed of it, 



678 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

losing several thousand dollars by the operation, because the title was 
in dispute. The land itself was worth much more than Mr. Stevens sold 
it for, if the title had been perfect. 

Q. Who was'Mr. Cowan % — A. John F. Cowan was a client of Mr. 
Stevens, in Pennsylvania. He was in all kinds of schemes, and used 
to be about Congress. 

Q. Was he in any way connected with the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company % — A. Kot to my knowledge. 

Q. How soon after Mr. Stevens's death did you qualify as executor 1 — 
A. On the day of his funeral. 

Q. Did you find among his papers or among his assets any Union 
Pacific Eailroad bonds or stock? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Is there anything in his books or papers indicating that he held 
any of the bonds or stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. 
E~o, sir. I will state further that we not only qualified on the day of 
his funeral, but we made an examination in the presence of the apprais- 
ers of the estate, Hon. Thomas Burroughs and John J. Cochran, of all 
his effects in Lancaster. We went down to his office, opened his private 
desk, took the key of his box in the bank and his bank-book, and made 
an inventory in rough on the day of his funeral. The balance of his 
property being in Franklin County, we were unable to get Burroughs 
to go down there, and we substituted Judge Livingston in his stead. I 
will state that there were not any Union Pacific Eailroad bonds on his 
inventory. The only bonds that we found were those arising out of this 
transaction with John F. Cowan. 

Q. As the subject has been mentioned, I will ask you if you witlfheld 
or delayed the inventory of Mr. Stevens's estate for the purpose of con- 
cealing any fact which that inventory, truthfully made, would dis- 
close ? — A. No, sir 5 and I never knew any fact connected with the set- 
tlement of Mr. Stevens's estate that was not known to my co-executor, 
and to Thomas H. Burroughs and John J. Cochran, the appraisers, on 
the- day of the funeral, and to the officers of the bank in which he kept 
his account. I had no information which I objected to the public know- 
ing. The reason of the delay in filing the inventory was the inability 
of Mr. Burroughs to go to Franklin County and make an appraisement 
of the property there. We had to substitute Judge Livingston, who 
had been a student in Mr. Stevens's office, and we went up to the Cale- 
donia Furnace and took the inventory there. That was the cause of the 
delay in filing it. 

Q. What bonds were those that you have spoken of in connection 
with the transaction with Mr. Cowan % — A. Tbey were Delaware, Leav- 
enworth and Pawnee bonds. The Kansas Pacific Eailroad, I believe, 
succeeded to their rights. The value of those bonds was $14,600. 

Q. What was their par value 1 — A. Twenty-four thousand two hun- 
dred dollars. 

Q. I understand you; the property which Mr. Stevens sold to this gen- 
tleman for those bonds was, according to your judgment and knowledge, 
well worth the amount paid for it if the title had notf a cloud upon 
it, and there arising a cloud upon the title the purchaser claimed to 
have the transaction rescinded, insisting upon his rights for a return of 
the consideration, and that thereupon you compromised the matter in 
the way you have stated ? — A. Yes, sir. In the compromise I gave him 
$14,000 in money. The bonds were sold through the cashier of our 
bank, and Mr. Cowan and I compromised on the proceeds. These were 
the only bonds found in Mr. Stevens's possession, except national-bank 
stock, ten shares of Cumberland coal stock and Lancaster turnpike 
stock. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 679 

Washington, D. C, February 13, 1873. 

Oakes Ames recalled. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. On the 3 1st of December, 1808, were you an officer or 
director in the Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — Answer. No, sir. 

Q. Were you of the Credit Mobilier ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Were you one of the trustees of the contractor 1 — A. i think not. 

Q. Was your attention ever called to an estimate that was made by 
the chief engineer of the Union Pacific Railroad Company on the 31st 
of December, 1808, which was filed pursuant to a resolution offered by 
Mr. Durant, inquiring whether eleven million dollars had been paid on 
account of the Oakes Ames contract? — A. I have a recollection of that. 

Q. Do you know how many miles of road were estimated by the engi- 
neer under that Oakes Ames contract, and paid for by the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company? — A. To my recollection, 007 miles. 

Q. I find, on referring to this estimate or certificate of the engineer, 
that he estimates, in addition to the 007 miles which are embraced in 
the Oakes Ames contract, 40 miles, at $90,000 a mile, making a total of 
$4,140,000 for that 40 miles of road. That seems to have been estimated 
along with the 007 miles embraced in the Oakes Ames contract, and 
charged up to the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and paid for by th© 
Union Pacific Railroad Company under the Oakes Ames contract; Do 
you know how that happened to be done ? — A. No, sir ; I have no recol- 
lection of it. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. Do you know what salary was paid to the first president of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company ? — A. I think $8,000 a year. 

Q. How was that paid ? — A. Indeed I cannot tell you. I was not a 
director, and was not familiar with the matter. 

Q. Did you ever hear of General Dix holding stock of the company? 
— A. I had that impression. 

Q. How much stock did he hold? — A. I cannot tell you; I do not 
recollect. 

Q. Do you or not know that he got five liundred shares ? — A. i do 
not know. 

Q. You never heard any one speak of that ? — A. I think I have, but 
I cannot remember how much stock he held. 

Q. How did he come by that stock? Do you recollect that ? — A. No, 
sir ; I do not. He was a stockholder before I had anything to do with. 
the road. 

Q. Can you not tell us whether that stock was given to him in pay- 
ment of his salary or not ? — A. I cannot ; I presume the books will show 
whether he was paid in money or not. 

Q. Did you ever hear of his offering that stock to your brother Oliver 
for $3,000 ? — A. I do not recollect ever hearing that. 

Q. Did not your brother tell you he did? — A. 1 do not recollect so. 
He miy have done so, but I cannot recall it now. 

Q. Did you ever hear of his having written a letter to any one, which, 
was read to a portion of the directors, and which induced them to buy 
that stock at par? — A. I recollect there was a letter from General Dix, 
presented, I suppose, by somebody who represented him while he was 
in Europe. 

Q. While he was minister to France? — A. Yes. 

Q. What was the character of that letter? — A. The letter, if I recol- 



680 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILEOAD. 

lect right, demanded $50,000 from the company, for I do not know what. 
We considered it a kind of black-mailing, and a hard thing on the com- 
pany. 

Q. It was so considered by the directors at the time ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Who read that letter to you ? — A. I did not hear it read ; I was 
not a director at the time. 

Q. Do you know who presented the letter? — A. I think his son-in-law. 

Q. Mr. Blake ? — A. 1 think that is the name ; I am not positive. 

Q. You understood that the Union Pacific Railroad Company took the 
money of its treasury and bought the stock in at par ? — A. That is my 
understanding. The Union Pacific Railroad Company paid the money 
which General Dix claimed — $50,000, 1 think. That is my recollection 
of the transaction. I had nothing to do with the details. They paid 
him $50,000 to get rid of him, and to get rid of the claim, or the threat, 
or whatever you call it. I do not know by what name it was looked 
upon. 

Q. The character of that letter was well known to the board of 
directors, was it? — A. I presume so. I was not a director at the time, 
but I' got my information from directors. I had a good deal to do with 
the company, being one of the largest stockholders, and of course must 
know about a payment like that. I know that they were very indignant, 
and thought it was very unjust. 

Q. What was the actual value of that stock at the time it was pur- 
chased from General Dix ?— A. I do not suppose that the railroad stock 
was then worth 'more than 20 per cent. I should not think there was 
any sale for it at that time, and it had no market value. 

Q. What was your understanding with reference to how General Dix's 
salary was paid, in money or in stock ? — A. I suppose it was paid in 
money. The books, I suppose, will show that. 

Q. There was a young man by the name of Painter who held some 
stock in the Credit Mobilier ; how much did he hold ? — A. I let him have 
thirty shares. 

Q. Did you understand that that stock was for him individually? — 
A. For him individually. 

Q. There was never any understanding that he held it as trustee for 
somebody else ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Did he pay for it ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. In what manner ? — A. I have a memorandum of it somewhere. I 
gave it to the other committee. 

Q. Did he pay the same as the members ? — A. Yes. He was promised 
that stock. He said that he was promised fifty shares by Dr. Durant 
and by Mr. Bushnell, and declared that he should have it out of that 
assigned to me. 

Q. What time did you let Painter have that ? — A. In December, 1867, 
or January, 1868. 

Q. Was it very well understood then that the actual value of that 
stock was much over par ? — A. Yes ; there was no market value for it. 

Q. What induced you to let Painter have it? — A. I had the stock, 
and I let everybody have it at the. same price that I paid for it. In 
all my transactions I never asked a man who participated with me any 
more than I paid myself. I always let every one in, whether the stock 
went up or not. I let everybody have it alike. 

Q. Was there an understanding that Painter had performed some 
service, or was to perform some service, about the House? — A. No, sir 5 
what he told me he had been promised, I performed. He was very in- 
dignant that he did not get the amount he said he was entitled to. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 681 

Q. His stock, I suppose, was paid for in dividends? — A. Partly in 
dividends. He paid cash in part, and he bad dividends afterward whicli 
pertained to it. He received the first dividends in bonds, and paid me 
cash for the balance— I think some $800 or $900. 

Q. He got about three times as much stock as the average of mem- 
bers ? — A. No, I guess not three times as much. Several of the mem- 
bers had as much as he had. 

Q. What position did Painter hold here at that time? — A. I do not 
know ; clerk to some committee, I believe. 

Q. Was he a reporter for the press? — A. That I do not know. 

The examination was temporarily suspended until the attendance of 
Mr. Benjamin P. Butler, Bepresentative from Massachusetts, should be 
procured, as he was somewhat interested in a subject on which the wit- 
ness was to be examined. 

Mr. Butler having come into the committee-room, the examination of 
the witness was resumed. 

Q. What, if anything, do you know in relation to the payment, or the 
proposed payment, of any sum of money to Mr. Carpenter, of Wiscon- 
sin, by way of a retainer as the attorney of the Union Pacific Ballroad 
Company ? 

Mr. Butler suggested that before going into that branch of the in- 
vestigation which had been suggested in an anonymous or fictitiously 
signed letter, sent to the committee, and letter-press copies of whicli 
had been circulated among members, it would be well for the committee 
to ascertain whether there was any such person as John P. Eandolph, 
(the name signed to the letter,) of Cedar street, New York. He asked 
that the messenger of the Sergeant-at-Arms, who was sent with a sub- 
poena for John P. Eandolph, be examined, and then he was willing,' 
himself, to make a statement under oath to the committee. 

The course suggested was adopted. 



Washington, D. C, February 13, 1873. 

John W. LeBarnes sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Butler : 

Question. Are you Deputy Sergeant-at-Arms % — Answer. I am acting 
as such. 

Q. Where did you receive an order to summon Mr. John P. Eandolph ? 
— A. While I was at Mr. Ord way's house, last Sunday afternoon. 

Q. What did you do in consequence '? — A. I prepared a subpoena and 
proceeded to New York on Sunday night. On Monday morning I went 
to Cedar street. As there was no number given in the order of sum- 
mons, I examined the entrances to all the buildings on that street on 
each side of Broadway, and on both sides of the street, and I examined 
all the signs, and found no person of that name. Then I made inquiry 
at various points along the street, of commissioners of deeds, notaries- 
public, in the bar-rooms, eating-houses, railroad offices, &c, and no- 
body on the street of whom I inquired knew any such person or had 
ever met him. I had previously looked in the Directory and found no 
such name. I went to the banking-house of Eandolph & Co., in Nassau 
street, and they did not know any person of that name. I endeavored 
to find some other persons of the name of Eandolph, to make inquiry, 
but I did not find any one at that time. I then examined the Directories 



682 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

of preceding years, and found a John P. Bandolph, in the Directory of 
1870, as keeping a variety store in Varick street. I went: to the post- 
office and had an interview with the assistant postmaster, and asked 
him if he would cause the letter-boxes to be examined to ascertain if any 
person of the name of John P. Bandolph had a box. He did so, and no 
such person had a box. I then gave him the address that I had obtained 
from the Directory of 1870, and asked him to have the John P. Ban- 
dolph of Yarick street traced to the present time. He did so, and in 
the afternoon he gave me what he supposed to be his address at this 
time. That address was, "Colored Intelligence Office, corner of Fourth 
avenue and Tenth street." I went there and found that Mr. Bandolph 
had moved to Brooklyn. I went to Brooklyn and found him. I found 
that he was a colored man, formerly from Bichmond, a slave in the 
family of the Boanoke Bandolphs. 

Q. Had he written any such letter ! — A. He had written no letter at 
all. He did not know anything about Pacific Bailroads. He did not 
know anybody who had anything to do with railroads. He never had 
heard of the Credit Mobilier, and did not know that there was any 
investigation in Congress on that subject or any other subject. 

By Mr. Hoar : 

Q. Had he ever heard of Congress ? — A. It was somewhat doubtful. 
He kept a small intelligence office for colored servants; and, appar- 
ently, he did nothing else but that. He was manifestly not the person 
that I was in search of. In the meanwhile I had telegraphed to Mr. 
Ordway, stating that I had not succeeded in finding Mr. Bandolph, but 
that I was searching for a John P. Bandolph who had kept a variety 
store in Yarick street, and I asked him if he could furnish any further 
information. I received a dispatch from Mr. Ordway that night that 
he could not furnish me with further information. I went to Mr. Crane 
and asked him if he knew Mr. John P. Bandolph, and he never had 
heard of such a man in connection with the Union Pacific Bailroad Com- 
pany. I went to the office of Mr. McComb, and they had never heard 
of such a man. I went to Mr. Ham, and he had never heard of him. 
I made some other miscellaneous inquiries. I found among others Mr. 
Hanscom, who had prepared for the New York Herald a number of 
statements in reference to the Union Pacific Bailroad and the Credit 
Mobilier, and who was then preparing, as he told me, a statement in 
regard to some other western railroads. He had examined a great many 
papers and was familiar, to a considerable extent, with the names of all 
persons concerned, and he had never heard of him. I concluded that I 
had exhausted all the means of obtaining information, and I returned. 

By Mr. Butler : 

Q. Up to this time had you heard from or seen me on the subject! — A. 
No, sir. I did not know that you had any interest in the matter until 
yesterday, and I did not know then what it was. 

Q. Then, in answer to roy inquiries, did you inform me that you could 
not find Bandolph?— A. I did. 

Q. Was there any further or other connection between us, either oral 
or written, than what you have stated? — A. No, sir. 

Mr. Butler. Now, in accordance with the suggestion of General 
Slocum, as my name has been brought before the committee in the mat- 
ter of receiving fees, I should like, with the leave of the committee, to 
state, under oath, the facts exactly as they are. 

The committee agreed that Mr. Butler should be sworn and examined 
as a witness. 



CREDIT M0B1LIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 633 

Washington, D. 0., February 13, 1873. 
Benjamin F. Butler, having been sworn, at bis own suggestion, 
made tbe following statement : 

I have long known Mr. Ames, Mr. Alley, and other gentlemen of Mas- 
sachusetts connected with the Union Pacific Bailroad Company. On 
the 7th of August, 1868, I received a letter, which I hold in my hand, 
from Mr. Alley, dated Boston, August 7, 1868 : 

" My Dear General : I saw Mr. Oakes Ames to day, and I told him. 
I was very anxious that he should see you about the change of that 
contract of his and the agreements which he has made. It strikes me 
that it is illegal ; and if so, it is important that he should know exactly 
how he stands in reference to it. He is very confiding, you know, and 
he thinks it is all straight and right because Tracy and these lawyers 
told him so. But you know their interests and feelings are with Durant. 
I told him that you were conversant with the whole matter ; and if, upon 
examination, you thought it right and legal, I should be satisfied, and 
he might well be, but not without. 

u He wants me to see you, with him, to explain my views, which I 
shall be glad to do. isTow, when can we have an interview with you of 
an hour or so ? I shall be away until Tuesday, and after that day I 
shall be glad to meet you. Please drop me a note, or inform me to- 
morrow at dinner, if you meet him. * * * * 

"JOHN B. ALLEY." 

Following my habit, I made, as you see, on the back of the letter, 
(which was filed by my clerk and digested,) a memorandum from which 
my clerk should draw up a note to be sent to Mr. Alley in reply. This 
memorandum is dated August 10, and is as follows : 

"My Dear Alley: I will meet you and Ames at Mr. Green's office 
on Thursday, and talk over the ' contract ' if it is personal to Ames. If 
it is a question as to the responsibility of the Credit Mobilier, I shall 
desire to give advice as counsel.' 7 

My reason was, that while I was perfectly willing to give any counsel 
to Mr. Ames as a friend, if I was to give legal advice in a case involving 
many millions, I did not feel like doing so gratuitously to a corporation 
which I believed and knew was amply able to pay me. I saw Mr. Ames 
and Mr. Alley in pursuance of that appointment. Mr. Alley had talked 
with me about the contract before that as friends, but not in the rela- 
tion of counsel. I restated to Mr. Ames and Mr. Alley, when I saw them, 
that if this was to be a matter affecting the organization of the company 
I desired to act as counsel, and in no other way. After going over the 
question I expressed the view that, as it then stood, it was an illegal 
contract. I knew that it was a contract which inter se, between the 
stockholders of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company and Mr. Ames, 
could not be made valid by a simple vote of stockholders. That was 
tbe question before us — whether that contract, which was known as 
the Oakes Ames contract, could be validated by a vote of the stock- 
holders. I said no j that any stockholder could, in my judgment, enjoin 
a proceeding under that contract. Mr. Alley then stated to me that he 
hoped the Union Pacific Bailroad Company would employ me as counsel 
to go to New York, about that contract, and also on the question of the 
manner of their holding an annual meeting. By the organic act of the 
company, and by the by-laws, it was provided that a meeting could only 
be held on one day, a given day, and that if an election failed, then the 
old board held over. There was a strong contest in the board between the 



684 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Massachusetts and eastern stockholders, and the New York stockholders, 
largely represented by Mr. Durant, as to who should get the direction 
of the road in the future. I went hrst to New York, and spent consider- 
able time over the question of this contract. I met the other counsel, 
Mr. Tracy, Judge Black, and Samuel J. Tilden, and I counseled with 
them. Mr. Black represented McOomb, Mr. Tracy represented Durant 
and the stockholders, and Mr. Tilden, I understood, was on our side. 
After that consultation, and after spending three or four or five days in 
New York, I returned home. Before the annual meeting I again went 
to New York under a letter of employment I had from the president of 
the board of directors, to take care, as counsel, of the interests of the 
stockholders. I went to New York three days, if I recollect right, cer- 
tainly two days before the election took place. I then found that both 
sides had gone before Judge McCunn, now dead, and had got injunctions 
against each side voting, each side alleging that the stock held by the 
other was illegal ; and it seemed to be pretty clear that there could be 
no election without whoever voted on either side, in violation of the in- 
junction, going to jail. That matter was dealt with at very considerable 
length, and at the day of the meeting neither side would vote. We held 
legal disputations in the matter, one way and the other, until the hour 
of luncheon came, about one o'clock. It then occurred to me that there 
must be a way to get out of that difficulty; and theupon I went with a 
gentleman and found Judge McCunn, whom I had known before. I 
stated to him the dilemma we were in ; that we were in a condition not 
to have any vote because both sides were enjoined, and I suggested to 
him to modify the injunction as against us (a copy of which I carried in 
my hand) so as to allow us to vote, subject to all questions to be raised 
on the illegallity of it. Judge McCunn did so far modify the injunction 
as to allow us to vote. I thereupon went back and advised my clients 
to hold an election. It was threatened pretty loudly on the other side 
what would happen if we voted in defiance of the injunction. I told 
them that I would take the responsibility, that they need not trouble 
themselves about me, and we voted in the election. I was served with 
a notice at that time to answer an attachment for contempt before Judge 
McCunn next morning. 

I acted as inspector at the election. I staid there the next day, and I 
think the day after. In the mean time the contract of Ames came up, and 
I advised that the only way possible to get along with that contract inter 
se, i. e., among the stockholders themselves, if it was desirable to carry 
it out, was that it should be a contract of three parts, in which the 
various parties should let the road to Mr. Ames, and they should come in 
as partners. That is, they should take it as a joint operation as individ- 
uals and not as stockholders, and that they must get all the stockholders 
to sign, or else any one stockholder could stop it. I left that contract to 
be prepared by the other counsel. I did not prepare it myself, and I did 
not see it till after it was prepared. I went home, and in the due course 
of business I charged my clients $5,000 for services and $1,000 for ex- 
penses. Some weeks afterward, when I forwarded the bill, some of the 
gentlemen in the board whom I had opposed, (for in the mean time they 
had a compromise board,) said that it was too much. I do not know what 
argument was used in the board on the subject, but they said they 
would pay me $3,000. I said I would not take $3,000 ; that I would not 
so far demean my profession as to give advice and legal services in 
the matter of contracts involving $47,000,000, and to a company ot 
$100,000,000 capital, for $3,000— that I ought to have charged $10,000. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 685 

Thereupon they sent me $3,000. When I got relieved from my public 
duties I sent word to them that unless the other $3,000 was paid I 
should very likely bring suit to recover it. Subsequently that $3,000 
was paid, as I believe. I did not feel very kindly to the corporation 
for thus undertaking to cut down my bill. On account of the dis- 
agreement, I suppose, or for some better reason, I had nothing- 
farther to do with the company until in the winter after I came to 
Congress. Mr. James Fisk, who I learned was the promoter of that 
difficulty in the election, standing behind some one, threatened to 
break up the company. I learned that by the newspapers. The next 
thing I learned was, that James Fisk sent me by messenger his check for 
$5,000 to be of counsel for him as against the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company in that contest. I saw that it would involve me in this incon- 
sistency — that although this was a new contest, yet I could not go into 
it without carrying a portion of my knowledge which I had obtained 
as counsel for the other side. I thereupon wrote to Mr. Fisk, sending 
him back his check, and saying that I could not take it, unless the com- 
pany released me from being counsel. I wrote to Mr. Oliver Ames, I 
think, certainly to one of the directors, stating the fact, and saying that 
I wished them to consider me still their counsel, stating my reasons ; 
and I got a letter saying that I should still be considered their counsel. 
But I did nothing. They sent me no money, and I received none since, 
because it was my request that I should be considered their counsel, 
and I did not wish, therefore, to charge any fee. I then advised them 
first that they should employ the Hon. Caleb Gushing, because I fore- 
saw that the matter would come to the Supreme Court. I then said to 
Mr. Ames or to Mr. Alley, " I am afraid that before Judge Barnard in 
New York, the New York counsel, whom you may have, will find them- 
selves very much embarrassed, because Judge Barnard is evidently 
impressed on the side of Fisk, and he will be very likely to visit 
with his displeasure any counsel practicing before his court who 
interferes with him much, and I think you had better get a man 
as far removed from New York influences as possible." I had known 
Mr. Carpenter ever since he studied law in Boston, in the office of 
Rufus Choate. I had heard him make arguments before the Supreme 
Court. I had been brought in contact with him, because there 
was a branch of the Soldiers' National Asylum in Milwaukee which 
brought me in contact with persons in that town, and with Mr. Car- 
penter. I saw Mr. Carpenter one day, and I said to him, " I hope that 
you are getting on well in your profession." He said, u Yes; audi 
wish I could build up a practice in Washington, before the Supreme 
Court." I said, " I will do anything I can to aid you in that regard, 
and I think I have such relations with some pretty large matters as 
will enable me to throw some business in your way." Thereupon, with 
that in my mind, and seeing the want of counsel for the company, 
and having a high opinion of Mr. Corpenter, I stated to Mr. Ames that 
in my judgment it would be better lor the company to retain Mr. Car- 
penter in their lawsuit which was then imminent in l$ew York. I said 
that he was a man who had "tongue" in his head, and could speak 
for himself, and would be entirely independent, and that I knew of no 
'such good man for them. I said to Mr. Ames, u He is a very prom- 
inent man, has the confidence of everybody, is a candidate for the Sen- 
ate, practices before the Supreme Court, and is a very good man." Mr. 
Ames said he did not know him at all, and I then went into a very con 
siderable description of Mr. Carpenter. Mr. Ames said that he would 
take it into consideration. I may have spoken to one or more of the other 



686 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

directors who were here. I do not recollect whether I did or did not $ 
but if I did, it was to the same effect. The next morning, or soon after, 
I saw that the injunction had been issued, that the safe of the company 
had been broken open, and that these troubles had begun ; and I there 
dropped the matter about Mr. Carpenter. I never spoke to Mr. Car- 
penter on the subject from that, day to this, until after I received this 
anonymous letter ; and then I asked him what possible foundation there 
could be for it. 

The Central Pacific Eailroad I never knew at all. I believe I have 
been introduced to one or two of its managers, but it was a mere pass- 
ing introduction. I never spoke to them on business ; never knew any- 
thing of their business ; never asked them for a dollar for myself or any- 
body else. I believe I did ask them to give a pass over their road to my 
adjutant-general, and I do not know whether the request was accorded 
or not. I never saw a dollar of their money, or of the money of the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company, other than and different from what I 
have stated. I have no knowledge or belief, directly or indirectly, (and 
I mean to cover every possible form,) that either of said roads, or any- 
body on their behalf, ever paid a dollar to Mr. Carpenter, or that any- 
thing else took place in that regard other than I have stated. I have 
no belief or suspicion or impression that they ever either paid a dollar 
to him, or that he ever received a dollar from them. 

That is the end and beginning of my connection with both roads. 
There is nothing that I desire to palliate, to excuse or defend. I should 
do just so again, and will do so again just when I please, where I please, 
and how I please, all the world to the contrary notwithstanding. 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. You never stated to Mr. Ames or any one connected with the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company that it was desirable to have Mr. Carpenter 
elected to the Senate from Wisconsin instead of Mr. Washburn, Mr. 
Washburn being an enemy of the road ? — A. Xo, sir. My only state- 
ment in reference to the election was as a recommendation of Mr. Car- 
penter, showing his standing. 

Q. Did you ever state to Mr. Ames that this fee was paid subse- 
quently to Mr. Carpenter by some other road ? — A. Xever in the world. 
I could not have stated it, for I never thought of it. 

Q. Have you any other information beyond what you have given here 
that would aid this committee in making its investigation ? — A. Within 
my personal knowledge there is nothing save and except what I learned 
in the course of my employment as counsel ; but there is nothing that I 
know of even in that way that would be worth stating. I have various 
matters of information from others which I do not think proper to state. 

Q. Second-hand information ?— A. It is second-hand only. It might 
"be John P. Eandolph over again. I have taken a little pains myself, 
since this copy of the anonymous letter was furnished me, to work up 
Mr. Eandolph, (because I wanted to know his antecedents,) wholly inde- 
pendent of the Serjeant-at-Arms, and I have not been able yet to discover 
him. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 687 

Washington, D. C, February 13, 1S73, 
Richard Frajmsiiot sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you reside ? — Answer. In Schenectady, New 
York. 

Q. Are you in any way connected with the Central Pacific .Railroad 
Company ? — A. I have acted as agent of the company since 1866, I 
think. 

Q. What have been the duties to which you have been assigned ? — 
A. Watching over the interests of the Central Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, at Washington and other places, subject to the call of the presi- 
dent of the company. 

Q. Where are the business offices of the Central Pacific Railroad 
Company kept f — A. I suppose in Sacramento, California ; they have a 
branch office in New York, at 54 William street. 

Q. 1 refer to the general business offices, where they keep the books 
and papers relative to the affairs of the Central Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany? — A. I cannot tell you from my own knowledge. The general 
offices are at Sacramento. 

Q. Who is the present president of the Central Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany ? — A. Leland Stanford, of California. 

Q. Where does he reside? — A. At Sacramento. 

Q. Who are the other officers of the Central Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, and where do they reside? — A. The vice-president, C. P. Hun- 
tington resides in New York City. I cannot answer positively as to the 
other officers of the road. Mark Hopkins, I think, is treasurer of the 
company. He resides at Sacramento. I may be mistaken in regard to 
his being treasurer. He is treasurer or secretary. 

Q. Were you connected with the road in the capacity you have 
named during a portion of the time it was being constructed? — A. I 
was not. 

Q. Have you any knowledge or information as to the means that were 
resorted to for the purpose of constructing the Central Pacific Rail- 
road ? — A. I have not. I have no personal knowledge. 

Q. Have you any information on the subject ? — A. I have not, only 
hearsay. 

Q. Do you know of any corporation, association, or organization of 
any kind, that was created for the purpose of taking contracts for the 
construction of the Central Pacific Railroad ? — A. I do not, only from 
hearsay $ I have no personal knowledge. 

Q. From whom did you hear anything on the subject? — A. I cannot 
say ; I think they have a contract company. The nature of it I know 
nothing about. 

Q. Do you know the name or style of that contract company ? — A. I 
do not. 

Q. Do you know who were the parties who were its managing men ? — 
A. I do not, only from hearsay. 

Q. Have you ever heard from any of the officers of the Central 
Pacific Railroad Company who were the persons active in that contract 
company ? — A. No, sir ; I have not. It is called the contract company, 
or the finance company, or something of that sort; I cannot give the 
style of it. 

Q. You had no active participation in the contract \ — A. None what- 
ever. 



888 CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. You have a general knowledge, I suppose, of the history of that 

road since 1886 ? — A. I cannot say that I have. 

Q. "What are your duties in relation to it! — A. I take charge of its 
business at Washington, and other places in the interim of the sessions 
of Congress. I am subject to the call of the vice-president. 

Q. What is the interest of the company at Washington ? — A. Nothing 
more nor less than the general interests of the railroad. We have to 
watch our interests here. 

Q. What are they ? — A. There are frequently questions coming up 
in Congress relating to the interests of the Central Pacific Railroad. 

Q. Then you mean that you are an agent to watch the passage of 
bills through Congress which might affect the interests of the 
pany ? — A. That is so, in part. 

Q. What other agency for the company have you in Washington? — A. 
Not any. I am subject to the call of'Mr. Huntington. 

Q. Are you a regular salaried officer of the road ? — A. Yes. 

Q. What is your salary ? — A. My salary is $20,000 a year. 

Q. And do you spend substantially your whole time here when Con- 
gress is in session % — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Are there any other agents of the company here while Congress 
is in session ? — A. Not that I am aware of. 

Q. Or officers of the road ? — A. Not that I am aware of. 

Q. The financial office of the company is at New York ? — A. That is 
a branch office, I suppose. 

Q. Where is the interest on their bonds paid! — A. In New York 
City. 

Q. Do you know where the engineer's reports and the treasurer's 
books, covering the period of the construction of the road, and the 
period of preliminary surveys, are kept? — A. I do not. 

Q. When you came into the service of the company in 1866, what 
persons or corporations were then engaged in the construction of the 
road ? — A. I cannot tell you; I suppose their contract company. I have 
no familiarity with their business proceedings over there. I know noth- 
ing about them. 

Q. Do you not know whether they were building the road on their 
own account, or through contractors? — A. I could only know it by 
hearsay. 

Q. Were you ever told it by any officer of the road ?— A. I think I 
was, but still I cannot recollect. I think they had a contract party* 

Q. W T ho do you think that contract party was 1 — A. I cannot tell you 
all of them. I do not know that I can any of them. I have no knowl- 
edge of my own. It would be hearsay. 

Q. I think we will inquire the hearsay from the general business agent 
of the road. What did you understand the fact to be as to who were 
the principal contractors for the construction of this road, at the time 
you came into its service, and since, till its completion? — A. I cannot; 
give you an intelligent answer on that subject. 

Q. Can you give the names of any persons or companies who, yon 
have been informed, were the principal contractors of the road ? — A. I 
cannot, only from hearsay. 

Q. Give them from hearsay ; from what information you have re- 
ceived. — A. I cannot tell you the members of the contract party. 

Q. What was the name or style of the company ?— A. I cannot tell 
you that ; I think all that information can be got from Mr. Huntington. 

Q. I am asking you who, from your information, were the principal 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION" PACIFIC RAILROAD. G89 

persons engaged in the construction of the road. If a corporation 
give the style, and if individuals give the names. — A. I do not know 
that I have ever been informed on that subject at all. I have an im- 
pression in relation thereto. 

Q. You have a belief? — A. I have. 

Q. Give that belief. — A. I think that a man by the name of Miller is 
one of the parties. 

Q. Where does he live ? — A. In Sacramento. I think Mr. Crocker is 
another. 

Q. Where does he live ? — A. In Sacramento. 

Q. Anybody else } — A. Not that I am aware of. 

Q. These are the only persons whom you believe to have been en- 
gaged in the construction of the road ? — A. Whom I have any reason 
for believing. 

Q. I ask you whether you have any belief on that subject. Are these 
all the persons whom you believe to have been engaged in the construc- 
tion of the road, whose names you can recollect ? — A. I cannot answer 
that question. I may believe that other parties were engaged. 

Q. Then be good enough to state it if you do. — A. I do not think it 
was confined by any means to these two men. 

Q. Have you in your mind the name of any other person or corpora- 
tion whom you believe to have been engaged in the construction of that 
road ? — A. I have not. I have no particular belief about it. I have no 
personal knowledge in reference to the matter whatever. 

Q. Can you give us the names and residences of the persons whom 
you have understood to be the principal contractors, or any of them ex- 
cept these two men whom you have named ! — A. My opinion is that the 
stockholders of the company were interested in the contract, but I know 
nothing about it personally. It is a mere matter of suspicion to me. I 
have no personal knowledge in regard to it. 

Q. Do you know what the present capital stock of the road is ? — A. 
I do not. 

Q. You have no information on the subject ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Or its present indebtedness ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Do you know whether the road is mortgaged % — A. I presume it 
is. I know there is a first mortgage on it. 

Q. For how much % — A. My opinion is that the first mortgage is for 
$25,000,000, beside the Government lien. 

Q. Is the first mortgage the same amount as the Government lien — 
that is $50,000,000 for the two ?— A. I presume it is. 

Q. What is the length of the road ? — A. About 900 miles. It is from 
Salt Lake to San Francisco. 

Q. Do you know anything personally or from information of any efforts 
made or acts done by anybody connected with the Central Pacific Kail- 
.road Company to affect the election in the State of Wisconsin at the 
time that Senator Carpenter was elected to the Senate or shortly be- 
fore ? — A. I do not. 

Q. So far as your knowledge extends, you negative that transaction 
entirely ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Did you know of any retainer of Senator Carpenter about that 
time, as counsel for the company ? — A. No, sir ; I did not. 

Q. Or of any money being sent to him? — A. No, sir; I have no 
knowledge "on the subject. 

Q. Either personally or from information % — A. No, sir. 

Q. Where does the treasurer of the company reside •? — A. At Sacra- 
mento. 

44 c M 



690 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Have you ever been in the office at Sacramento ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Do you know where its archives are kept, whether they are kept 
in Sacramento or in New York? — A. They are kept in Sacramento. 
That is the general office of the company. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. In connection with this contract and finance company, (that is the 
style of it,) did you ever hear the name of Leland Stanford as being one 
of the parties ? — A. Yes, sir, 

Q. Did you ever hear of the name of Charles Crocker as being one 
of the parties ? — A. Yes, I have said so. 

Q. Did you ever hear of the name of Charles Marsh as being one of 
the parties ? — A. I think I did. 

Q. And of C. P. Huntington?— A. Yes. 

Q. And of Mark Hopkins? — A. , Yes. 

Q. Are all these gentlemen interested in the Central Pacific Eailroad 
Company? — A. Yes. 

Q. And have been from the commencement of its organization ? — A. 
I think so. 

Q. You have heard their names mentioned as being parties who were 
interested in this constructing company ? — A. That is the impression I 
got. 

Q. What position in the Central Pacific Eailroad Company does 
Charles Crocker hold? — A. I do not know that he holds any. 

Q. Has lie been a director of the company ? — A. I think he has been. 

Q. How long was he a director ? — A. I cannot say. 

Q. Is Charles Marsh connected with the direction of the company? — . 
A. I think he was ; whether he is now or not I cannot say. 

Q. How long has Mr. Huntington been connected with the company ? — 
A. I think since the beginning. 

Q. And Mr. Hopkins?— A. I think also from the beginning. 

Q. Is he still connected with it ? — A. I suppose so. 

Q. At what other points beside Washington are you called upon to 
discharge duties in connection with yoifr company? — A. At no particu- 
lar point. When any business occurs in the interim of the session of 
Congress, I am liable to be called upon to attend to it. 

Q. What kind of business is it that you are called upon to attend to 
in the interim of Congress? — A. I cannot say; if anything occurs 
where I can be useful to the company, I am liable to be called upon to 
attend to it. 

Q. Have you at any time been called away to look after business of 
the company ? — A. I do not recollect now ; I have, however. 

Q. To what points have you been called? — A. I cannot say now; I 
have no distinct recollection of any specific thing. 

Q. Have you been called, at any time, away from Washington to 
look after any specific business?— A. No, sir; not from the city of 
Washington. 

Q. The business which you have been called upon to discharge, by 
virtue of your agency, has been at the city of Washington? — A. Yes. 

Q. Have you no recollection of being called upon to look after the 
interest of the company at any other point?- — A. No specific business; 
I cannot bring any to mind; I may have been away twenty times, but I 
cannot recollect now. 

Q. If there had been any business of any considerable importance 
that you had been called upon to attend you would recollect it, I sup- 
pose ? — A. Yes, sir. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD'. 69't 

By Mr. Slocum : 

Q. Have you any knowledge of the Central Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany ever having paid money or any valuable consideration to secure 
the election of any United States Senator? — A. I have not. 

Q. You never have known of an instance of that kind ! — A. No, sir. 

Q. Or to secure the nomination of a Senator ? — A. No, sir ; nor of 
a ny member of the House. 



Washington, D. C, February 13, 1873. 

A. J. Poppleton sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. What relation do you bear to the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company? — Answer. I am its attorney. 

Q. How long have you been its attorney ?— A. Since about the 1st of 
December, 1863. 

Q. Where do you reside ?— A. Omaha. 

Q. Are you familiar with the management of the bridge and the 
transportation over it between Omaha and Council Bluffs ? — A. I am 
somewhat familiar with it, although I am not entirely acquainted with 
all its details. 

Q. How is the transportation over that bridge managed at the pres- 
ent time? State, if you know, whether there has been a contract 
made with any one, and if so, with whom, for the transfer of freight and 
passengers across that bridge. — A. The Union Pacific Railroad trains 
are made up on the west side of the river and the eastern-bound trains 
stop on the west side of the river. The transfer- train delivers business 
across the river between the Iowa roads and the Union Pacific Railroad. 
That transfer-train is run by the Union Pacific Railroad Company. It 
is run under the name, however, of the Omaha Bridge Transfer Com- 
pany, which is to some extent a separate organization. Its accounts 
are kept separate. 

Q. Did you ever see a contract entered into with one Homans, in re- 
lation to the transfer of freights across that bridge? — A. When the 
bridge was first opened a contract was made with one George W. 
Homans, for the transfer of freight and passengers over the bridge. 
That contract, I believe, I have seen. After working under it a short 
time, it was thought by some people, who were interested in the Union 
Pacific Railroad Courpany, that it was an unfavorable contract to the 
company; but on a close examination of it, it turned out that the con- 
tractor, instead of making money, was losing money, and by mutual 
consent the contract was canceled. 

Q. How long is it since that contract was canceled? — A. My recol- 
lection is that it was in May last ; I am not certain of the date, but that 
is my best recollection. 

Q. Look at this paper, [handing to the witness a paper,] and say 
whether it is a schedule or time-card for the running of trains over that 
bridge. — A. It appears to be. 

Q. What is the date of it ? — A. It appears to be dated October o, 
1872. 

Q. Is Homans still having control of an interest in the transfer of 
freight or passengers across the bridge? — A. He is nominally the con- 
troller of it. 



692 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. What interest has he in it now ? — A. He has no interest in the 
transfer of freight and passengers, beyond the fact that he is paid a 
small salary for the use of his name. 

Q. Who pays him ? — A. The Union Pacific Kailroad Company. 

Q. The Union Pacific Eailroad Company is paying a man to manage 
the transfer of passengers and freight across this bridge, the proceeds 
of which do not go into the treasury of the Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company ? — A. I mean to say that the bridge department pays him, 
as I understand ; that is, the compensation of Mr. Homans comes out 
of the funds of the bridge and not out of the funds of the Union Pa- 
cific Eailroad proper. 

Q. What charge is made for transferring freight across this bridge — 
by the car or by the hundred-weight ? — A. I think ten dollars per car 
load of ten tons each. 

Q. What charge is made for transferring passengers across the 
bridge ? — A. Local passengers pay fifty cents each. 

Q. What do other passengers pay ? — A. I am unable to say. There 
are coupon tickets issued for the bridge. I do not know what the pro- 
portion is that is allowed for the transfer. 

Q. You say that the trains western bound are made up on the west 
side of the river % — A. Yes, sir ; the Union Pacific Eailroad trains are. 

Q. Is there a change of cars by passengers at the eastern end of the 
Omaha bridge ! — A. There is a change from the transfer trains to the 
Iowa roads. 

Q. Passengers going west ; do they change cars at the eastern end of 
the bridge f — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. And again at the western end of the bridge ? — A. Yes, sir ; on the 
Iowa roads they change on the eastern side, and they take the cars of 
the Union Pacific Eailroad Company on the western side of the river. 

Q. Is freight transferred in the same way? — A. Through freight is 
not transferred. 

Q. Have you any knowledge or information of any moneys of. the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company having been used for the purposes of 
influencing or controlling a member of Congress or United States Sen- 
ator? — A. None whatever at any time. 

Q. Has the company ever furnished any money to you for such pur- 
poses I — A. Never at any time. 

Q. Do you know the lands on the Iowa side of the river, where it has 
been contemplated to put a depot, or where there has been some talk 
of putting a depot? — A. Yes, sir; I am acquainted with the land 
spoken of as a site for the depot in case one should be built on the east 
side of the river. I do not know that any one contemplates the con- 
struction of such a depot. 

Q. W T ho owns those lands ? — A. According to my recollection, there 
are in the neighborhood of 1,200 acres of land in all. About 150 acres 
of it are held in the name of T. C. Duraut, trustee, and is understood 
to belong to the Credit Mobilier. That is the ground where it has been 
suggested that a depot would be constructed. There are adjoining 
tracts, which I think are held in the name of individuals, and have been 
ordinarily understood to be held in the same interest ; but I cannot give 
the names of the persons holding them. 

Q. Did you ever have occasion to examine as to the real ownership of 
those lands ? — A. Not beyond these 150 acres that I spoke of. 

Q. What are these 1,200 acres of land worth ? — A. It is difficult to 
estimate their value; because, as farming lands alone they would have 
one price, and on the theory that they were actually to be used as the 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 693 

site for a depot they would perhaps have another value. I think that 
$100 an acre would be an outside price for any portion of the lands at 
the present time, independently of the prospective value that may grow 
out of the construction of the depot. 

Q. Were you consulted in relation to the letting of contracts for the 
construction of the Union Pacific Railroad? — A. I was not. From the 
time when my connection with the road commenced until the 1st of 
January, 1869, my duties were altogether legal. I looked after the liti- 
gation and business of the company in that country, having, up to that 
time, but little to do, and being but little consulted in relation to the 
organization of the road east. Since that time my duties have been 
more general.- 

Q. Were you cognizant of the fact that, after fifty-eight miles of 
the road had been built west of the hundredth meridian, there was a 
proposition to extend the Hoxie contract over that fifty-eight miles? — 
A. I was not. I had no knowledge as to the operations of the Credit 
Mobilier, or of the seven trustees or contractors, save by common rumor, 
until I became acquainted with that transaction in the course of a liti- 
gation which arose after the road was completed, in the summer of 1870. 

Q. At the time of the transaction, you had no knowledge of it? — A. 
No, sir. 

Q. Was your attention called to the fact that fifty-eight miles, in addi- 
tion to the six hundred and sixty-seven miles embraced in terms in the 
Oakes Ames contract, were allowed and paid for under that contract?— 
A. Never, until this morning. 

Q. How many times have you been over the land of the [Jnioii Pacific 
Railroad, from Omaha west?— A. I cannot give the precise number of 
times, but I have been over the road at least half a dozen times. 

Q. State the general character of the country through which the road 
was built, and whether there are any serious obstacles in the way of 
constructing a road along the line on which it is constructed ? — A. From 
Omaha to the Elkhorn River, a distance of about thirty miles, the con- 
struction is somewhat difficult, the grades being steep on certain portions 
of it. From the Elkhorn River to within, say, forty or sixty miles of 
Cheyenne, so far as the surface is concerned, the route is very favorable 
for cheap construction, and very unfavorable, so far as timber, transporta- 
tion, water, and other things are concerned. From Cheyenne west the 
route crosses first the Black Hill Range, and then the Rocky Mountain 
Range, and it is, in my judgment, a difficult route, and an expensive route 
for construction, not only on account of the face of the country, but on 
account of the difficulties of operating in that country at the time the 
road was built. 

Q. Can you give a general idea of the features of the country where 
the road is located, whether there are heavy cuts and embankments 
necessary? — A. From Cheyenne to Sherman the grades are very steep, 
ninety feet to the mile, and there are frequent cuts through granite ; 
and also in the descent to Laramie, the distance being fifty -two miles from 
Cheyenne to Laramie. It is difficult of construction, but not so difficult, 
by any means, as was originally anticipated. 

Q. How is it beyond that? — A. From Laramie west, over from the Lara- 
mie plains, it is less difficult, although the expense and cost of the con- 
struction of the road, in that portion, was very much increased by the 
fact that the Government commissioners insisted that the road, instead 
of being built undulating with the surface of the plain, should be made 
uniform , and the track sunk below the surface. The result has been the 
snow-blockades, from which the road has suffered, and it has cost 



694 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

the company a very large amount of money to remedy that difficulty. 
The company had to raise nearly a hundred miles of their track last 
summer for the purpose of avoiding snow-blockades. Then, crossing 
the crest of the Eocky Mountains, the grades are steep, and there are 
very heavy cuts through the rock. It is the same in reference to' the 
descent. That country at the time the grading was done — at the time 
the track was laid — was destitute of water, and entirely destitute of 
timber. Nothing could live there, except as the materials for sustaining 
life were carried there. Water was hauled by the track-laying trains 
fifty to sixty miles, to supply the men, and provisions and supplies were 
hauled from the end of the track, with four-mule teams, for which we 
paid $25 a day. They could not be got for less. The difficulty was in 
pushing the road as rapidly as it was necessary to do. Eroiu. Green 
Biver west to the Wahsatch Mountains there is substantially the same 
character of country. It is a difficult country to operate in. At Wahsatch 
commences the descent of Echo Canon. There was a heavy rock-tun- 
nel which cost a very large amount of money. The road follows Echo 
Canon and another canon until it reaches the Salt Lake Yalley. The 
whole line of construction I would regard as a very expensive one. The 
grades and cuts and bridges are expensive. The last section of the road, 
from Cheyenne west to Ogden, it should be remarked, was all built be- 
tween the 1st of January, 1868, and the middle of May, 1809. Beyond 
comparison the most difficult portion of the road to construct was built 
in one year, while three years were given to the construction of the 
easiest part of the road. 

Q. Statewhat length of road received $48,000 per mile in bonds, and what 
length received $32,000 per mile in bonds, as stipulated in the eleventh 
section of the act of 1862. — A. lam unable to state precisely where the east- 
ern base of the Eocky Mountains was fixed ; but I think it was at or near 
Cheyenne. Assuming that as correct, there would be three hundred 
and seventy-one miles of road that received $32,000 per mile in bonds, 
and one hundred and fifty miles that received $48,000 per mile. I would 
like to say one thing in relation to the running of these transfer- trains 
over the Omaha bridge. The Union Pacific Eailroad Company never 
admitted that it had any corporate power or existence in Iowa, or that 
it was amenable to the jurisdiction of Iowa in any form. It has always 
insisted that the Union Pacific Eailroad commences on the west bank of 
the Missouri Elver, where the initial point was fixed by President Lin- 
coln, on the eastern boundary of section 10, township 15, r*ange 13, 
whence it was built westward ; therefore the company has always con- 
fined its trains to the western bank of the river, and its arrangements 
have been made with reference to that theory of the law. Its shops 
and general offices are on the west bank of the river, and the trains are 
terminated and made up there. That is the reason for this transfer ar- 
rangement, the Iowa roads refusing to deliver their passengers on the 
west bank of the river, to the Union Pacific Eoad. 

Q. I suppose that the Union Pacific Eailroad Company refuses to take 
the Iowa trains on the east side of the river ? — A. It refuses to send its 
trains over into Iowa to get tbe passengers from the other roads ; but it is 
ready, as I understand, to transport the trains of the Iowa roads, with 
its own motive-power, to the western bank of the river, whenever they 
will consent to go there. 

By Mr. Slooum : 
Q. State the instructions given to you by the president of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company, when you came on here from New York, at 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 695 

the time of the raid ? — A. My instructions were to deliver the papers 
which were put in my charge to Mr. Ames, to whom they were directed, 
and to cause them, if possible, to be put into the hands of some mem- 
ber who would exhibit the true state of facts on the floor of the House, 
in case the anticipated resolution was offered. 

Q. How about paying out money ? — A. I cannot say that I had any in- 
structions on this subject, because, in my first interview with Mr. Clark, 
he declared, unequivocally, that he would not expend or authorize the 
expenditure of a dollar for any such purpose, and there the matter, to 
a great extent, ended. I cannot say I had any instructions on the sub- 
ject; but Mr. Clark had declared repeatedly, and in the most explicit 
manner, that he never had authorized, and never would authorize, the 
expenditure of money for any such purpose. Of course that closed the 
whole question with me, and none ever was expended, to my knowl- 
edge, at any time. 

I stated in my testimony that Mr. Homans was paid a nominal sum 
as proprietor or contractor of the bridge; that sum is $100 per month. 
I wish further to state, in reference to that bridge, that the Union Pacific 
Eailroad Company has always held it a separate thing from the road. The 
act of Congress of 1871 authorized the mortgaging of the bridge for 
the purpose of raising money for its construction, separate and apart 
from the road ; and the mortgage executed on the bridge provides that 
the funds realized from the earnings of the bridge shall be applied to 
specific purposes. For that reason, among others, the organization for 
the construction of the bridge, and its accounts on the books of its 
earnings, have been always kept separate from the general business of 
the road ; and, as the company regards it, they cannot be safely or 
properly kept in any other way, as it is required that a certain portion 
of the earnings of the bridge shall go into the hands of trustees under 
the bridge-mortgage, to be applied in the payment of interest. The 
earnings of the bridge are, under the mortgage, to be applied, in the 
first place, to the payment of the interest ; and, in the next place, to the 
repair and keeping in order of the bridge ; and, in the third place, are 
to be invested as a sinking-fund, to meet the payment of the principal. 
All those things make it necessary and essential that the business of 
the bridge shall be conducted separately from that of the road. 



Washington, D. C, February 13, 1873. 

Charles T. Sherman recalled. 
By Mr. Hoar : 

Question. Were you ever a member of the committee to examine and 
settle accounts of the Credit Mobilier against the Central Pacific Eail- 
road Company for the construction of a portion of the road embraced 
in the Hoxie contract? — Answer. I was a member of that committee. 

Q. Do you recollect whether any statement was furnished to the com- 
mittee in reference to the cost to the contractors for so much of the 
road as was embraced under the Hoxie contract? — A. I think not. I 
have no recollection of it, at least. 

Q. What was the nature and character of your examination on that 
committee? — A. I can only recollect generally, it is so long since ; but 
we took the Hoxie contract, ascertained the number of miles that were 
built, and the amount that was due according to its' terms, and then 



696 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

we deducted the payments that had been made. It was just a general 
account and statement. 

Q. You made no inquiries as to the validity of the Hoxie contract ? — 
A. No, sir; as I stated in my former examination, we regarded the 
Hoxie contract as valid and binding on the company. 

Q. At the date of the committee's report, was the portion of the road 
which was built under the Hoxie contract thoroughly equipped, so as 
to be a compliance with the act of Congress? — A. It was thoroughly 
built, but not equipped as much as we insisted it should be equipped ; 
but it was equipped according to the , contract, which was $5,000 per 
mile for equipment. We claimed that it should be $7,500 per mile. 

Q. The company was not entitled by the act of Congress to get bonds 
from the Government till the road was built and thoroughly equipped 
for operation ? — A. The Union Pacific Eailroad Company was entitled 
to bonds whenever the commissioners, appointed by the President to in- 
spect the road, gave their certificates. We were not commissioners, and 
we knew nothing about the certificates, and were not responsible for 
them. 

Q. But you would not have permitted the bonds to be issued to the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company, or have been parties to their issue, as 
Government directors, unless you were satisfied that the road was com- 
pleted in accordance with the act? — A. I do not know that we had any 
control over that matter, except to report and represent the facts to the 
Secretary of the Interior. 

Q. Did you, in fact, believe, at the time you made that examination, 
that the road was completed in accordance with the provisions of the 
act of Congress — so much as was covered by the Hoxie contract ? — A. 
Yes; except that there were various opinions on the subject of the 
amount of equipment per mile. We claimed that it should be $7,500 
per mile, and Dr. Durant and the directors claimed that $5,000 a mile 
was sufficient. 

Q. I am asking you as to your opinion as to the compliance with the 
act of Congress. You say that you do not consider that you were re- 
sponsible for that. — A. No, sir ; we were not responsible lor the issue 
of the bonds. 

Q. But I ask you whether you supposed that the road was buiit and 
equipped in compliance with the act? — A. The act of Congress named 
no particular amount of equipment, but only that the road should be 
built and well equipped, according to the business of the road. We 
Government directors, under the advice of Mr. Williams, claimed that 
$7,500 per mile would be the amount which we should fix under the act 
of Congress. 

Q. Then you mean to say that you did not think at the time that the 
road was completed in accordance with the act of Congress? — A. No, 
sir ; not so far as equipment was concerned. 

Q. You thought it- would take about $2,500 per mile more? — A. Yes, 
sir; that was our opinion at the time. 



Washington, D. C, February 14, 1873. 

C. P. Huntington sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : 
Question. Where do you reside ?— Answer. In New York. 
Q. Have you at any time been connected with the Central Pacific Eail- 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 697 

road Company ; and if so, in what way ? — A. I have been connected with 
it since its organization, which was in 1861, I think. 

Q. Are yon one of the original stockholders'? — A. Yes; I was among 
the early subscribers. 

Q. How much stock did you subscribe for originally ? — A. I think 
my original subscription was fifty shares. 

Q. What was the whole amount of stock subscribed at the time of 
the organization of the company ? — A. The laws of California, if I re- 
collect correctly, required that there should be $1,000 a mile subscribed 
and 10 per cent, paid in ; that had to be done before they could organize, 
and that was done. 

Q. Where are the business offices of the Central Pacific Eailroad 
Company ? — A. They have been always kept in Sacramento. 

Q. Are the records, books, papers, and documents, relating to the 
Central Pacific Eailroad Company, kept in the office at Sacramento! — 
A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Do you recollect how many stockholders there were at the time 
of the original organization of the company ? — A. I do not. 

Q. Had the amount of stock required by law been subscribed at the 
time of the organization ? — A. I have no doubt but it had been ; on all 
such matters we had our legal advisers, and they told us what was to be 
done, and we were always endeavoring to do everything exactly accord- 
ing to law, and just as our counsel reported about such things, that was 
done. 

Q. Do yoi\ know whether the 10 per cent, which was required by law 
had actually been paid-in at the time of organization? — A. I have no 
doubt about it. 

Q. Did you pay in your 10 per cent. ? — A. Yes ; I paid mine in, and 
a good deal more, I believe. 

Q. Was that paid in cash? — A. Yes; I have no recollection of any- 
thing being paid in except in cash. 

Q. Who composed the first board of directors ? — A. Governor Stan- 
ford, Charles Crocker, Theodore D. Judah, Charles Marsh, Phil. Stan- 
ford, Mark Hopkins, and myself. I am not sure that there were more 
than seven directors. 

Q. Can you tell how many subscribers there were to the capital stock 
at the time this organization was effected ? — A. No ; I cannot. I had 
a good deal of trouble in getting subscribers. 

Q. About how many were there? — A. I should think there were fifty 
or sixty. Our friends all paid down a little. I went up over the moun- 
tains and through to Grass Valley. I got a few subscribers there, and, 
a few at Dutch Flats, and a few at Nevada City. 

Q. Did those persons who were elected directors at this first organ- 
ization hold the majority of the stock that was then subscribed? — A. I 
should think they did. 

Q. Have those persons whose names you have given continued in the 
direction of the company ever since ? If any of them have been left 
out, who? — A. Mr. Judah died. 

Q. Has Mr. Leland Stanford been connected with the direction ever 
since ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Has Mr. Crocker? — A. No, sir; Mr. Crocker was overworked and 
went out. 

Q. How long has he been out? — A. Some three or four years. 

Q. He continued in the direction from the organization of the com- 
pany in 1861, until three or four years ago ?— A. Yes. . 

Q. How long did Mr. Judah continue in the management ?— A. Not 



698 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

long. He came here to Washington and staid here till after the pas- 
sage of the bill. Then he went back and was there some time — not 
over a year, I think. 

Q. How long did Mr. Marsh continue in the direction ? — A. My im- 
pression is four or five years. 

Q. And yourself? — A. I have been a director ever since the organ- 
ization of the company. 

Q. How long did Mr. Phil. Stanford continue in the direction of the 
company ? — A. I cannot say. 

Q. Is he a director now! — A. No, sir. 

Q. How long is it since he ceased to be a director? — A. I should 
think some four years. 

Q. Is Mr. Hopkins 4 still a director ? — A. He is. 

Q. Has he been so continuously from the organization till this time! — 
A. I think he has. 

Q. What is the amount of capital stock of the Central Pacific Eailroad 
Company? — A. The whole capital stock of the company is $100,000,000. 
The stock issued is about $54,000,000. 

Q. After the organization of the company what means were resorted 
to for the construction of the road ? — A. We commenced to build the 
road on our own means. We got some aid from the Government which 
we thought would let us through the mountains ; but soon gold began 
to rise, (and we paid for everything in gold,) and we saw that we were 
going to have great difficulty. In fact, I made up my mind that we were 
not going to get through with the Government bonds and first-mortgage 
bonds. We then went to the State legislature, and the legislature agreed 
to pay the interest for twenty years on a million and a half of bonds. 
Gold kept rising, and we saw that we were still going to have difficul- 
ties. Our engineer's estimate was $88,000 a mile for getting across. 
Iron was $40 a ton when the estimate was made, and it went up to about 
$140. The expense of going around the Horn and taking the war-risks 
was so great that freights went up very high, and we cast about again, 
putting in our own money all the time, which was considerable. About that 
time the city of San Francisco voted to give us $600,000, or to take our 
stock to the amount of $600,000 and to give us $600,000, of their 7 per 
cent, bonds. Afterward the work looked so heavy that they did not like 
to take the stock, believing it was of no value. We finally compromised 
with San Francisco, and the city gave us $400,000 and did not take 
the stock, and they considered they had made $200,00p by the opera- 
tion, so that we got $400,000 out of the city as a donation. We got then 
something from Sacramento County and something from Placer County ; 
and we got across the mountains, although considerably in debt. That 
I believe answers the question as to how we got our means to build the 
road. 

Q. What was the first contract that was let to build this road, and to 
whom was it let ? — A. I have not the data to state the exact time, but 
it was let to a number of parties. Mr. S, D. Smith had a contract. 

Q. For how much ?— A. I think it was five miles. There were, I should 
think, eight or ten parties. I ought to know their names, but they are 
out of my mind now. We let it to them in that way, but there was a 
limited supply of labor there, and the parties got in one another's way. 
Several sections in advance were completed, and sections that were near 
were not completed ; and we made up our mind that it was impossible 
to build the road in that way. 

Q. What number of miles of the road were embraced in those eight 
or ten contracts to which you have referred? — A. Without giving the 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 699 

exact distance, I think it was up to Dutch Flats, some seventy-four or 
seventy-five miles. 

Q. What was done then in the way of making contracts? — A. I was 
here. Our people cast about to get up a company to build the road. 
They did let the contract to the Contract and Finance Company. They 
sent to China for labor, and they sent over here to me for labor. Charles ' 
Crocker had a contract from the very first. 

Q. Was that before this Contract and Finance Company was organ- 
ized? — A. Yes. 

Q. Was that on his own account or was it on account of a firm? — A. 
I do not know. I think some sections were let to Charles Crocker, and 
some to Charles Crocker & Co. 

Q. Bo you know who composed the firm of Charles Crocker & Co.? — 
A. I do not. 

Q. Had you anv interest in that firm? — A* I do not know that I 
had. 

Q. Did you have any indirect interest in it? — A. No; I do not know 
that I had. Mr. Hopkins, my partner, who has been a partner of mine 
for twenty years in the hardware and metal business, and, in fact, in 
almost all the business I had, was attending to it on that side. I said 
to Mr. Hopkins, when I left, that in any undertaking there in the con- 
struction of the road he could take whatever interest bethought proper 
ta take, but to take as little as he could, because we were doing a large 
hardware and metal trade, and I did not want to be embarrassed in it. 
I do not think he took any interest in it, but still I do not know. 

Q. Who else were in the firm of Charles Crocker & Co. ? — A. I do not 
know. 

Q. How much of that road was embraced in that contract? — A. I do 
not know. 

Q. Do you know at what rate per mile it was let to Charles Crock- 
er? — A. My impression is that it was let per cubic yard. 

Q. Do you know what this contract amounted to in the aggregate? — 
A. I do not. 

Q. Passing from the Charles Crocker & Co. contract and the Charles 
Crocker contract, state what you know in reference to the organization 
of a corporation known as the Contract and Finance Company, and 
the purpose of that organization. — A. It was organized, as I under- 
stood — I was not there myself— more particularly to gather up labor 
sufficient and to get means sufficient to build the road. 

Q. Was it organized also for the purpose of taking a contract for 
building the road? — A. That, I suppose, would follow. 

Q. Under what authority was this Contract and Finance Company 
organized? — A. Under the laws of the State of California, as I under- 
stand. 

Q. Who composed this company? — A. I cannot say. All of us cast 
about to get as many into it as we could. 

Q. What was its capital stock?— A. It was $5,000,000, I think; 1 am 
not positive. 

Q. Have you a copy of the articles of association, or charter, or what- 
ever sort of instrument it was organized under? — A. No, I have not. 

Q. Do you recollect how many subscribers there were to its stock? — 
A. No; I never saw the subscription list. 

Q. Were you a subscriber yourself? — A. No; not myself. If I did 
subscribe, Mr. Hopkins, my partner, did it. 

Q. Did Mr. Hopkins subscribe?— A. I think he did. 

Q. Do you kuow to what amount? — A. I do not know. 



700 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. What was the firm's name? — A. Huntington & Hopkins. 

Q. Did he subscribe in the firm's name?— A. I do not know. 

Q. Was Mr. Leland Stanford one of the corporators in that Contract 
and Finance Company ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. Was Mr. Charles Crocker ? — A. I do not know ; I never have seen 
the subscription list ; but, from common report, he was. 

Q. Was Mr. Judah ? — A. Mr. Judah died before it was organized. 

Q. Was Mr. Charles Marsh ?— A. I do not know. 

Q. Were you an officer in the board of directors of the Central Pacific 
Eailroad Company after it was organized ?— A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What position did you hold? — A. I was financial agent at the 
East, and business manager, and I did most of the business here at the 
East. 

Q. I believe you stated that you are vice-president of the company 
now ? — A. I am. 

Q. W T hen did you become vice-president of the company! — A. My 
impression is on its organization. 

Q. Have you been vice-president ever since ? — A. I believe I have. 

Q. Was there a contract let to this Contract and Finance Company 
for building the Central Pacific Eailroad ? — -A. I think there was; I 
have never seen it. 

Q. Have you any doubt about it? — A. No, I have no doubt 
about it. 

Q. How much of the road was embraced in that contract?— A. I can 
give my impression ; I cannot give the exact number of miles— about 
six hundred. 

Q. Have you a copy of that contract ! — A. I have not. 

Q. Do you know where it can be found ? — A. It is in Sacramento, I 
have no doubt. 

Q. When was that contract made ? — A. I cannot say. 

Q. Do you know who were the officers of this Contract and Finance 
Company at the time this contract was made ? — A. Charles Crocker 
was president, but beyond that T cannot say. I am quite sure he was 
president. 

Q. What other persons do you know of being officers of that com- 
pany ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. Did Mr. Leland Stanford have any interest in it ? — A. I do not 
know. 

Q. Did you ever hear him say so ? — A. If I did I have forgotten it. 

Q. Was Mr. Hopkins an officer in that Contract and Finance Com- 
pany? — A. I do not know that. 

Q. You were the vice-president of the Central Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany ; I will ask you to state now if you know what amount was paid 
to this Contract and Finance Company for building the road ? — A. I do 
not know. 

Q. Have you any idea ? — A. I have got an impression that they were 
to have so much in stock, and the balance in bonds. 

Q. How much in each ? — A. My impression is that they took all the 
first-mortgage bonds and all the Government bonds, and a certain 
amount of stock. 

Q. How much stock ? — A. I do not know ; 1 do not think I have ever 
heard. 

Q. Have you any impression on that subject? — A. No. My impres- 
sion is that they took quite a large amount of stock. The price of the 
stock was merely nominal at that time. 

Q. Did they pay in the money for the stock which they took to the 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 701 

Central Pacific Railroad Company? — A. I would suppose that it would 
be counted cash on construction. 

Q. I simply want to know the fact whether they paid in the money 
or not. — A. I cannot say. I suppose that they did pay the money for 
the construction of the road. 

Q. You were the vice-president of the Central Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany. Did you take any interest in the construction of this road ? — A. 
I took great interest in supplying the materials. My associates in the 
company were gentlemen whom I had known twenty or thirty years, 
and Mr. Hopkins had been my partner for twenty-odd years. I had all 
confidence in them, and paid very little attention to matters myself. I 
shipped all the iron for the road, and all the locomotives, and all the 
materials ; and that kept me very busy. They inquired very little 
about what I was doing, and I inquired but little about what they were 
doing. 

Q. Did you sell the iron to the company ? — A. I never had any iron 
to sell. 

Q. Did you purchase the iron for the road ? — A. Yes. 

Q. By the contract with the Contract and Finance Company, was that 
company to build and equip this road ? — A. Such is my impression. 

Q. Did you purchase the iron for that portion of the road which the 
Contract and Finance Company was to build? — A. I purchased the iron 
for the whole road for the Central Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. Did you purchase it on account of the Contract and Finance Com- 
pany? — A. I purchased all the materials for the railroad company. 

Q. After the contract had been let to this Contract and Finance Com- 
pany to build and equip six hundred miles of road, why was the Central 
Pacific Railroad Company purchasing iron? — A. We purchased iron for 
the whole road and sent it out there; and the Contract and Finance 
Company, as I understood, took it at what it cost to lay it there* We 
had to buy the iron a long time ahead. We had to contract for it. 

Q. Had you already bought the iron when the contract was made 
with this Contract and Finance Company for these six hundred miles 
of road ? — A. I should suppose we had ; I am not positive. We had to 
contract in advance. I sent ten thousand tons of iron, if I recollect cor- 
rectly, over the isthmus, for which I paid two cents per pound in gold 
for freight; and that was when gold was very high. I sent twenty 
locomotives over the isthmus, and I think I paid as high as $7,000 in 
gold as freight on them. 

Q. I understand you, th£n, that before this contract was let to the 
Contract and Finance Company, the Central Pacific Railroad Company 
had already purchased the iron for the portion of the road which the 
Contract and Finance Company was to build ? — A. Not all of it. I do 
not know that it had purchased any ; but I should suppose that we had 
from our manner of buying in advance. 

Q. Then you are not sure that any of it had been bought? — A. No; 
not quite sure ; but I think it would be quite safe to say that we had 
bought iron. 

Q. Had any considerable portion of it been bought by the Central 
Pacific Railroad Company before this contract was made ? — A. I have 
not the data. That was during the war, in 1862 and 1863, and we 
bought along as fast as we could. I should suppose that some of it had 
been bought before the contract was let and some after that. 

Q. In what way did you pay for that iron which you bought for the 
Central Pacific Railroad Company % Did you pay for it in money? — A. 



702 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC KAILROAD, 

Yes, we paid in money. We got time on a portion of it. It was a 
cash transaction, I think. 

Q. How long time did you get on it ? — A. I got twelve months on 
some of it. 

Q. I suppose that the Central Pacific Eailroad Company paid for this 
iron that was purchased by it? — A. Yes. 

Q. This Contract and Finance Company did not pay for it?— A. It 
paid the Central Pacific Railroad Company for it, I suppose. 

Q. I understood you to say awhile ago that this Contract and Finance 
Company got the Government bonds and the first-mortgage bonds 1 — A. 
I do not state that positively; that is my impression. 

Q. If that is so, from what source did the Central Pacific Eailroad 
Company get money with which to pay for this iron ? — A. I sold its se- 
curities here for the Central Pacific Railroad Company, and every month 
I gave our people a memorandum. 

Q. How long was this Contract, and Finance Company engaged in 
building that portion of the road which was embraced in its contract? — 
A. I do not recollect. I think we built five hundred miles of the road in 
nine months. 1 know that they had to haul out everything that they 
used. There was only one man, I think, living between the Big Bend 
of the Truckee and Brigham City, six hundred miles; and everything 
had to be hauled that distance. 

Q. Do you know what profits were made by this Contract and Finance 
Company on that contract ? — A. I do not. My impression is that there 
was nothing made but some stock of the Central Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany. 

Q. How much of the stock! — A. I do not know: but some consider- 
able. 

Q. About how much! — A. i cannot say. We used the stock some- 
times* to borrow money on, and we sold some. In fact, we had to use as 
collaterals everything that we had before we got through. The stock 
would probably not have been good for more than 10 per cent, as col- 
lateral. • 

Q. Do you know anything in relation to dividends having been de- 
clared by "the Contract and Finance Company ? — A. No, I do not. 

Q. Did you ever participate in any dividends yourself? — A. Yes; I 
think I did. 

Q. What did you receive in the way of dividends? — A. It would be 
impossible for me to say. I was using a good deal of money, and was 
carrying on my hardware and metal business, and they were all mixed 
up together. What I got hold of I sold, and used the money again to 
pay debts. 

Q. Can you not give the committee some estimate, some approxima- 
tion of what you received as dividends, and in what you received 
them ? — A. I never received any Government bonds at all. 

Q. Did you receive any first-mortgage bonds? — A. I never received 
any first- mortgage bonds, I am sure. 

Q. You had a second mortgage on that road, I believe? — A. We had 
a million and a half of bonds, which we called State aid 

Q. Was there not a second mortgage on that road ? — A. No ; we had 
a land-grant bond. 

Q. Did you get any of them? — A. I think I had. a few of those land 
grant bonds. 

Q. And you had some of what you call State aid bonds, did you get 
any of them? — A. No. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 703 

Q. How many land-grant bonds did you get? — A. I cannot say. I 
did not get many. 

Q. About how many? — A. I really cannot say how many. I got them 
a few at a time. 

Q. Did you get any stock ? — A. Yes, I got some stock. 

Q. How much? — A. I do not know. Mr. Hopkins keeps a memoran- 
dum of that. 

Q. Do you not understand about how much stock you had of that 
company; have you no idea? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Can you tell the committee within one hundred shares how much 
stock you had ? — A. No. 

Q. Can you tell within one thousand shares ? — A. I do not think I 
can. 

Q. Can you tell within two thousand shares how much stock you 
had? — A. Yes; I think I can tell within one thousand shares probably. 
I should think I had something in the neighborhood of a million dol- 
lars of stock. 

Q. How much did your partner have ? — A. I do not know that. I 
suppose he has got about the same. We have bought and sold stock 
sometimes, and borrowed money on stock. 

Q. How did it happen that you received dividends in this Contract 
and Finance Company ; I understood 3 T ou to say that you are not a mem- 
ber of that corporation? — A. I certainly do not know. 

Q. If you do not know that you were, how did it happen that you 
received this large amount of dividends of which you have spoken ? — ■ 
A. I do not know. I trusted these things altogether to Mr. Hopkins. 

Q. Where did you get this million dollars of stock ? — A. I do not 
know that it was dividends. 

Q. If you did not get it as dividends how did you get it? — A. We are 
pretty large operators in all kinds of securities, and may have got it in 
that way. 

Q. Did you buy this million dollars of stock in the open market ? — 
A. It was not sold in the stock-market. If it was bought it was picked 
up from contractors. 

Q. I want to know whether you did pick it up from contractors ? — A. 
I do not know. 

Q. Do you wish the committee to understand that you do not know 
how you acquired that stock? — A. No, I do not; but really I am rather 
ignorant of those things that were done on the west coast there. As I 
said before, I had great confidence in my associates there. They did 
my business as they did their own. 

Q. Do you wish the committee to understand that you did not get 
this stock as a division of profits made by that Contract and Finance 
Company ? — A. No, I do not. 

Q. Do you wish the committee to understand that you did receive it 
as division of profits ? — A. No; I am not positive about it. I said I had 
no interest that I was positive of in the Contract and Finance Company. 
I presume that I had, and I believe I so stated. Mr. Hopkins attended 
to that thing. 

Q. If you had an interest in the Contract and Finance Company, to 
what extent was that interest ? — A. I do not know. 

Q. Can you give us any idea as to the extent of that interest? — A. 
No, I really cannot. 

Q. Did you have five shares of stock in it, or an interest to that 
amount? — A. It would be fair to presume that if I had any, I had con- 
siderably more than that. 



704 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Can you tell us within a hundred shares the interest you had in 
that Contract and Finance Company ? — A. Eeally, I never saw the sub- 
scription list. 

Q. And have no idea of how much you had ? — A. Eeally, I have no 
idea ; and I do not know what the capital stock is. I believe it is five 
millions. 

Q. How many stockholders were there, as nearly as you can recol- 
lect? — A. I do not think I ever heard. 

Q. Who were the principal stockholders in that Contract and Finance 
Company? — A. I do not know that, for I never saw the list. 

Q. Were you present when the contract was made with that Con- 
tract and Finance Company ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Had you anything to do with that contract?— A. Not that I 
recollect. I have been on this side. I have been here for eleven years, 
almost all the time. 

Q. By whom were the contracts made on the part of the Central Pacific 
Eailroad Company to build this road? — A. The Central Pacific Eail- 
road Company, I suppose, would represent the one side, and the Con- 
tract and Finance Company the other side. 

Q. I want to know who were representing the Central Pacific Eail- 
road Company in making these contracts. Did you have an executive 
committee, -a contracting committee, or in what way w T as it done ?— A. 
I do not know ; I have not been in California probably (except for a 
few days at a time) in eleven years, and I never looked into these 
matters. 

Q. Do you know what the net earnings of the Central Pacific Eailroad 
Company are now ? — A. I do not know. I can make a statement. The 
figures are easily obtained. 

Q. Do you know what its present indebtedness is ? — A. My impres- 
sion is that the Central Pacific Eailroad Company owes little or nothing 
outside of its bonded debt. We have taken great pains to make the 
Central Pacific Eailroad a solid, paying road. Wherever we could run 
branches to advance the interest of the main road we have done so. I 
have attended to matters on this side, and can tell you pretty much all 
that has taken place on this side, but very little of the other side. 

Q. Do you know what the floating indebtedness of the company is? — 
A. My impression is that we may say we have no floating debt. We 
may have a. small floating debt, but it is covered by cash, or by some- 
thing equivalent to cash. 

Q. What has been done by the Central Pacific Eailroad Company in 
the way of consolidation with other roads ? — A. There is the California 
and Oregon road ; there is the San Joaquin Valley road, and there is 
the Western Pacific road. 

Q. And the Southern Pacific? — A. No; that is another organization 
entirely. It runs into another system of roads. There is the Oakland 
road, I think, and there is the Alameda road. 

Q. Are those roads now all under the direction of the Central Pacific 
Eailroad Company? — A. Yes. 

Q. And all controlled by the parties who control the Central Pacific 
Eailroad ? — A. I believe they are. 

Q. Was the stock of those roads purchased by the persons who con- 
trol the Central Pacific Eailroad ? — A. That w r as done by consolidation. 
It would naturally be by consolidation. 

Q. Are there any ferries connected with any of those roads ? — A. My 
impression is that those ferries at Oakland belong to the Central Pacific 
Eailroad Company. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 705 

Q. Any others? — A. No; except the one from Alameda Point. I 
think that belongs to the Central Pacific Railroad Company. 

Q. Do you think of any other ferries 1 — A. No, I do not think of any 
others. 

Q. What steamboat lines does this Central Pacific Railroad Company 
own ? — A. I think we own the line from Sacramento to San Francisco. 
That is a matter which I would not be positive about. I am answering 
these questions just as I think, and without positive knowledge. 

Q. Does the company own any steamship lines? — A. I think I am 
quite safe in saying that not one of us owns a share in any outside 
steamship stock. 

Q. I only have reference to the Central Pacific Railroad Company 
itself? — A. I think it has not any interest in steamship lines. I am 
quite sure it has not. 

Q. I believe you stated a while ago that you got some aid from 
Placer County, in California? — A. Yes. 

Q. Did the Central Pacific Railroad Company have some litigation 
with that county on account of the stock which the county had sub- 
scribed? — A. I do not know that it had. There was a party there who 
said he would commence a suit ; but if he did I do not know. 

Q. Do you know what he was going to bring a suit about? — A. I do 
not know. 

Q. Are you aware of the fact that suit was brought in that county ?— 
A. No, I am not. I may have heard of it; but if I have it has passed 
out of my memory. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. Who was president of this Central Pacific Railroad Company 
when you began to be its vice-president? — A. Leland Stanford, I think. 

Q. How long did he continue to be its president? — A. I think from 
that time to this. 

Q. W T ho was the active man of the Central Pacific Railroad Company 
during the period of the construction of the road ; and who would be 
able to give the committee most information in regard to those matters 
which you have been asked, about? — A. My impression is that Mr. Stan- 
ford would, or Mr. Hopkins, or Mr. Crocker, tip to a certain time, Mr. 
Crocker would know more about it than anybody else, but he would not 
be able to give any information in regard to present matters. 

Q. Where are those gentlemen whom you have named? — A. They 
are in California. Governor Stanford was here after this question came 
up, and staid here some few weeks. 

Q. Has the Central Pacific Railroad Company been in the habit of 
keeping in the eastern portion of* the United States any books that 
would show the condition of its affairs and transactions? — A. No. 

Q. Never? — A. Never. As to purchase of materials, I have done all 
of that, and every month I have sent out a statement, and the people 
there put it on their books and distribute it. 

Q. Are there in the eastern portion of the United States any books 
now that will show the transactions about which the chairman has in- 
quired; or would they have to be obtained from the Pacific side? — A. 
We never have kept any records of those things here. 

Q. Are there none here now as far as you know ? — A. No, sir. 

Q. What was the date, as nearly as you can tell the committee, of the 
organization of this Contract and Finance Company ? — A. It is a mere 
impression that I can give at best, and I might be years out of the way. 
I should say, however, that it was in I860. 
45 c m 



706 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. How much of the road had been made, if any, prior to the organi- 
zation of that company f — A. I should say about one hundred miles. I 
may be out of the way in these answers. 

Q. Where did the one hundred miles begin at the western end ?— A. 
At Sacramento. 

Q. And running ? — A. Eunning eastward to the Sierra Nevada. 

Q. How was that constructed ; was it by contract, or was it con- 
structed directly by the Central Pacific Railroad Company itself? — A. 
It was constructed, I think, in small contracts. I know there was a 
good deal of trouble in getting labor. They said that they had great 
trouble in working up to the requirements of the law with these small 
contracts. 

Q. When was that one hundred miles constructed which was made 
before the organization of this Contract and Finance Company ? — A. We 
got to work in 1863, I believe. 

Q. And you worked along till 1865 ? — A. Yes. 

Q. Did you draw upon that hundred miles the Government bonds to 
which you were entitled by act of Congress prior to the formation of 
the construction company ? — A. I should say we did. 

Q. Had you disposed of those bonds, before the construction com- 
pany came into operation, that you had so drawn, including the first- 
mortgage bonds of the company 1 — A. Yes, sir ; I think we sold the 
Governments in advance of getting them. When I commenced buying 
locomotives for the road we paid $11,000 each for them. We had sub- 
sequently to* pay $32,500 for them. These things cramped us some- 
what and we had to sell the bonds in advance, agreeing to deliver them 
when we received them. 

Q. What did you get for the Government bonds and the first-mort- 
gage bonds prior to the date of the construction company ! — A. We 
commenced selling the Governments at 90. 

Q. Is that the, average price you got for them? — A. My impression 
is, that was about the average. They were a new thing, and we had 
some difficulty in disposing of them. 

Q. How about your first-mortgage bonds? — A. We sold those at 95. 
We had considerable exx)ensein selling them ; advertisements, commis- 
sions, &c. 

Q. Were those contracts, which were let prior to the formation of the 
construction company, let upon actual surveys and estimates, both of 
quantity and of cost? — A. Yes, sir; I think so. I know they were 
over the mountains, and, in fact, I am quite positive they were the 
whole distance. If it would be proper, I would like to say that in tak- 
ing the material out for 600 miles, where there were no inhabitants, it 
was next to impossible to let the contract, except to one party, because 
the contractors at the front would never get any men j all the others 
would pick them up before they got there. 

Q. I am now confining my inquiry to the one hundred miles let prior 
to the formation of the construction company ; that, you say, was let, 
according to your recollection, upon actual estimates ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What did it cost, as near as you can recollect; I mean cost, in 
actual payments to men and materia , to build the road? — A. My im- 
pression is that the road cost fully $100,000 a mile in gold. I heard the 
governor say the other day — I was refreshing my memory on the sub- 
ject — that the three miles of snow-galleries cost us $100,000. That is 
where the snow comes down in avalanches, and we have galleries to 
cover the road. W r e have twenty-five miles of sheds, and they cost a 
great deal of money. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION^ PACIFIC RAILROAD. 707 

Q. Now we come to this construction company period. Was that a 
corporation or a copartnership ? — A. It was an organization under the 
laws of the State of California. 

Q. The chairman puts in my hands what purports to be a bill in 
chancery of the 14th judicial district of California for Placer County, in 
which bill the county of Placer is plaintiff and a large number of de^ 
tendants ; and on this point, in regard to the organization of the con- 
struction company, he calls my attention to a statement in the bill 
which I will read to you. One of the averments is, " that afterwards, 
to wit, on or about the 18th day of November, 1807, the said defendants, 
Huntington, Hopkins, Leland Stanford, C. and E. B. Crocker, and 
divers others, their associates and confederates, to plaintiff unknown, 
combined and confederated together to cheat and defraud the plain- 
tiff and other stockholders of the Central Pacific Railroad Company 
and the said Central Pacific Railroad Company, and fraudulently to 
acquire and appropriate to themselves, without consideration or a just 
equivalent, large profits and gains and large amounts of the assets and 
property of the said Central Pacific Railroad Company, organized them- 
selves and some of their servants aud employes to plaintiff unknown 
under the laws of the State of California, into a corporation styled ' The 
Contract and Finance Company,' for the purpose of taking contracts for 
the construction of subdivisions of the railroad and telegraph line of the 
said Central Pacific, and the appurtenances necessarily connected there- 
with, aud the equipping and furnishing of the same." Now, the first 
question I wish to frame upon that statement is, whether this construc- 
tion company was organized under the laws of the State of California 1 — 
A. As 1 understand it, it was. I guess there is no doubt of it. 

Q. Was that organization about the date of the 18th of November, 
1S67 1 — A. It may be if that statement says so. 1 supposed it was ear- 
lier than that. 

Q. Among the persons stated as forming that organization are in- 
cluded Huntington, Hopkins, Stanford, C. Crocker, E. B. Crocker. 
Were those gentlemen among the men who formed that organization % — 
A. I do not know, except from common report. I have never seen the 
subscription-book. 

Q. Were you one of those persons so associated under the laws of 
California! — A. I suppose so, if that answers the question. 1 believe 
I am the gentleman referred to there. 

Q. Did you yourself take part in that organization, or was your name 
used without your knowledge or consent? — A. If my name was used it 
was perfectly right and proper to be used. Mr. Hopkins had a right to 
use my name as he thought proper. I told him that whatever he did in 
regard to the construction of the road I would do also. 

Q. At this time were you an officer of the Central Pacific Railroad 
Company? — A. I have been vice-president of the company from its or- 
ganization down to the present time. 

Q. Were you a director .also? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. Was Mr. Hopkins connected with the tDentral Pacific Railroad 
Company? — A. Yes, sir 5 I think he has been director ever since it was 
organized. 

Q. Was Mr. Leland Stanford an officer or director of the company % — 
A. My impression is that he has been president of the conrpany since 
its organization. 

Q. Was Mr. C. Crocker also an officer of the road ? — A. I do not 
think he has been. I do not think he ever was with the board but a 
short time. 



708 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Was he a director at that time % — A. I think not. 

Q. Was he a stockholder ? — A. I suppose so. 

Q. Was Mr. E. B. Crocker a director or stockholder, or both ? — A. 
My impression is that he was a director; and you have to be a stock- 
holder to be a director, as I understand the law. 

Q. At what date was the contract made for constructing a portion of 
this road by the corporation styled "The Contract and Finance Com- 
pany f — A. I could not say. 

Q. How much of the line of the road did the first contract which they 
took cover ? — A. I could not answer that. 

Q. Answer as near as you can. — A. I do not know. My impression 
is that the Finance Company built about six hundred miles of the road. 

Q. You said it was nearly impossible to let that road except in large 
tracts; was that true at the date of this letting — the first letting of the 
contract to the Finance Company ? — A. Yes, sir. I think that the com- 
mittee will see that it would have been impossible when they under- 
stand the circumstances under which the road was built. The Union Pa- 
cific people were pushing on with fearful speed and reckless expenditure 
to drive us out of the Salt Lake Valley— to drive us out of that business. 
We did not expect to have any local business on the four hundred miles 
of the eastern portion of our road, although I am happy to say it has 
since been developed and proves to be very satisfactory. We felt very 
anxious to have the road reach the Salt Lake Valley, so as to participate 
in that trade, and we thought it a vital point that the road should be 
pushed on to meet the Union Pacific about where we did meet it. I 
made an overland trip across the continent of thirteen hundred miles in 
the winter to see how they were getting along. They were moving 
camps, paying double wages, &c. 

Q. At the formation of this constructing company, what proportion 
of the stock of the Central Pacific road was owned by the persons that 
became members of the - Contract and Finance Company ? — A. I have 
no idea. 

Q. Was it half? — A. I have no idea at all. 

Q. Can you not approximated — A. No, I could not. I never saw the 
books. 

Q. Do you know what amount of stock had been issued at this par- 
ticular date, November, 1867 J ? — A. No, I do not. 

Q. Another averment in the bill from which I have read to you is, 
that after the organization of the Contract and Finance Company, all the 
contracts made and entered into in the name of the Central Pacific Rail- 
road Company for materials to be furnished and for work to be done 
were by Leland Stanford, Charles Crocker, and their conlederates, com- 
posing a majority of the directors of the Central Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany, voted to be let, and were in fact let, and entered into by the Cen- 
tral Pacific Railroad Company of the one part and the Contract and 
Finance Company of the other part, without advertising the same, and 
without in any manner invitiug competition* therefor. Now, the first 
question I desire to ask you is, whether at that date you had any per- 
sonal knowledge of that first letting to the Contract and Finance Com- 
pany ? — A. My impression is that J did not know anything about it at 
that date. 

Q. Tell me whether you were in California at the period of the first 
letting. — A. There was three years that I was not in California at all ; 
if I recollect correctly, from about 18(33 to 18G6. 

Q. Were you present at any meeting or interview which had regard 
to the formation or organization of this Contract and Finance Company "? 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 709 

— A. My impression is that I was not. If I had been in California I 
should have been at the meeting-, and I have no recollection of being 
there at the time. 

Q. Who represented your interest in the matter ? — A. Mark Hopkins 
is my partner. 

Q. He was there ? — A. There would not have been much done for me 
unless be was there. He lived in California at that time. 

Q. What is the fact as to the first contract being let, as stated in this 
bill, without in any manner inviting competition, or advertising? — A. I 
should have considered that to have advertised would have been so 
much wasted as was paid for advertising. 

Q. That is not the question. The question is whether it was adver- 
tised ? — A. I do not know. 

Q, You know nothing about the fact? — A. No, sir. 

Q. What extent of road was let in the first letting to the Contract 
aud Finance Company % — A. I cannot say. I am quite familiar with 
most thiugs done on this side, and I know very little about the matters 
done on the other side. 

Q. What was the stock of the Central Pacific Railroad Company 
worth in cash at the date of the formation of this Contract and Finance 
Company ? — A. My impression is that it would not have brought in the 
market ten cents on the dollar. 

Q. Do you know what the stock that was owned by the persons who 
entered into and became members of the Contract and Finance Company 
cost in cash to those who then held it % — A. I do not know. The stock 
that we took originally was paid for at par, but much of it was taken 
by the friends of the enterprise. This man took $1,000 and that man 
took Si, 000, saying that they were willing to give that in order to get 
the railroad, and that they never expected to see any dividends. 

Q. Was that which was originally subscribed paid up in cash, as far 
as you know, according to the requirements of the charter % — A. I sup- 
pose it was. 

Q. Was yours? — A. I suppose it was. 

Q. You do not know ? — A. Mr. Hopkins attended to all those matters. 
I do not suppose that any stock was issued until it was full paid. 

Q. Now, take that which was not originally subscribed, but which was 
owned by those gentlemen who went into the Contract and Finance 
Company, and tell me what \i cost them. — A. That I cannot say. 

Q. Cau you tell what yours cost you which you then held and did not 
originally subscribe for? — A. No; I have not any idea. 

Q. Would ten cents on the dollar be about as near as you can tell ? — 
A. I suppose my stock cost me a good deal more than that. The trade 
along the line of the road is developing, and it looks now as though the 
stockholders would all get dividends before a great while. 

Q. I find the next averment in this bill to be that under the fraudulent 
aud illegal pretense of paying for the said materials, work, &c, which 
really in fact had been furnished and done by the said directors and con- 
federates for their own benefit, the said last-mentioned directors aud 
confederates from time to time voted to pay and deliver, and make over 
in the name of the Central Pacific Railroad Company to the said Con- 
tract and Finance Company and its confederates, large sums of money, 
aud large amounts of bonds, lands, and other valuable assets of the said 
Central Pacific Railroad Company of great value, to wit, of the value 
of $225,855,618.17. Now, do you know of any dividends made to the 
Contract aud Finance Company at or about the period of November 6, 
1867 % — A. No ; I do not. 1 do not know where they got those figures, 
because that is twice the value of everything we have. 



710 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Do you know of any division or payment made in the way of di- 
vision of profit by the Contract and Finance Company to its members'? — 
A. I do not know. I cannot answer the question, I have no doubt but 
that they have made some dividends. 

Q. You said awhile ago, in answer to the chairman, that you had 
received dividends, or something that amounted to that, and that as 
near as you could state the amount of the stock that you held amounted 
to $1,000,000. State whether you wish to be understood that that 
$1,000,000, or whatever the amount is, is what you have derived in the 
way of dividends as a member of that Contract and Finance Company ? 
—A. I cannot say. 

Q. Who can say ? Tell us where we can get the information which, 
we seek on that point. — A. If Mark Hopkins does not know I do not 
know where you can get it. We have endeavored to construct every- 
thing on high grounds. 

Q. This Contract and Finance Company you have said was a joint 
stock company ?— A. It was an organization under the laws of Califor- 
nia, as I understand. 

Q. What amount in dollars was each share of stock t — A. One hun- 
dred dollars, I think. 

Q. How many shares did you and your partner own ? — A. I do not 
know. I have not the most distant idea. I am sorry to say so, because 
if I had an interest there I should like to know just what it was. I do 
not know anything about it. 

Q. Ho you know how that stock of the Contract and Finance Com- 
pany was paid for! — A. I do not know. 

Q. Who supplied the funds to pay for the shares of the Contract and 
Finance Company which you and your partner owned f — A. I do not 
know. That was in California, and was something that I did not know 
anything about. 

Q. What is the stock of the Central Pacific Railroad Company worth 
now? — A. It has no market value; it never has been put on the mar- 
ket. It is growing in value, we think. The local business of the road 
is growing very fast, aiid we do not know what the stock is worth. 

Q. Have you any knowledge as to how many persons are now stock- 
holders in the Central Pacific Railroad Company, and who are entitled 
to vote in its elections ?— A. I cannot say. 

Q. Can you give us any idea whether they are a large number or a 
small number?— A. No; there are quite a good many. 

Q. How many men own a majority of its stock ? — A. I cannot answer 
that question. 

Q. Can you give us any idea whether they are few or many? — A. My 
impression is that there are not a great many. 

Q. As many as half-a-dozen? — A. I guess more than that, a good 
deal. The stock has changed hands, and it has gone out. 

Q. Is not a majority of the stock of the Central Pacific Eailroad Com- 
pany owned now by less than a dozen men or a dozen firms and men 
put together? — A. That is possible. 

Q. Ho you not understand that to be the fact — that less than twelve 
men or firms control the majority of the stock of the Central Pacific 
Eailroad Company? — A. Without being positive, as I said, it is pos- 
sible. 

Q. You say it is possible. Now give us your best information and 
knowledge in that regard.— A. I do not like to state a thing which 
1 do not know. Perhaps 1 may say it is probable that it is controlled 
by a dozen. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 711 

Q. Have you not an impression upon that subject? — A. It is rather 
rny impression. Perhaps that is a better word. 

Q. What is that stock worth now, as nearly as you can tell, to men 
who should want to invest in it? — A. It has never declared any divi- 
dend. I really do not know. I suppose that if we should go and offer 
the stock on the market it would bring very little. I think pretty well 
of it, 

Q. Would it bring anything from the men who are most intelligent 
about its affairs! — A. I doubt whether it would bring anything if you 
offered $1,000,000 of it on the New York stock board to-day. 

Q. Offering the quantity that would command the best price and 
competition from purchasers, and offering it to the men who knew the 
most about the prospects and condition of the company, what, in your 
judgment, would be a fair price for the stock ?— A. I think that if the 
Government would live up to its contracts with the company, and if the 
company was not to be disturbed — — 

Q. Understand the question. Taking things as they are, the ques- 
tion is, what that stock will bring from men who are most intelligent as 
to its affairs, and as to everything that affects its affairs, as things now 
are?— A. I have hardly anything to base an answer upon. The parties 
who have got it, so far as I know, have got all their money in it, and 
have not got much money to buy any more; and. if you were to go out 
and try to pick up new men, I have no idea that you could get any 
price for the stock. 

Q. Is it not changing hands somewhat! — A. Not much. 

Q*. To any extent ?— A. I have not known of any sales for a long 
time. 

Q. What prices did the stock bring in the sales that are known to 
you as last made ?— A. I do not recollect any sales being made in a con- 
siderable time. 

Q. Have you bought any of the stock of the Central Pacific Railroad 
Company for money ?— A. Yes; I bought some of the stock a good 
while ago. 

Q. What did you give for it! — A. I do not recollect what I did pay. 
It was a good price. Judge Sanderson, our attorney, stated atone time 
that he had some doubts about the increase' of the capital stock, and I 
bought a little of the stock at about par. Afterwards he said he was 
entirely clear on the matter, and then I refused to buy any more. It 
was a little stock out of the old $8,500,000. After he had stated that 
the things were clear in his mind, and that everything was perfectly 
legal, I refused to buy. There were only a few shares of it out that 
there were any threats about. 

Q. What amount of land-grant bonds, in the aggregate, have been 
issued by the Central Pacific Railroad Company ?— A. About $9,000,000. 

Q. About what amount has been sold by the company ? — A. That 
amount. The mortgage is $10,000,000. 

Q. They are secured by a mortgage on the land granted by Congress ? — 
A. Yes: 

Q. Do you recollect about how much they realized to the company, 
and how the company got its pay for the land?— A. My impression is 
that they went into the construction and equipment of the road. 

Q. They were put iu by the company as pav for the construction ? — 
A. Yes. 

Q. The Contract and Finance Company got all those bonds, I sup- 
pose I— A. Xo j 1 suppose not. 



712 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. Do you know what the Central Pacific Railroad Company got for 
those bonds that it sold itself, and that were not paid to the Contract 
and Finance Company ? — A. No, I do not. I did not sell them. The 
Central Pacific Railroad Company has, at this time, about $1,000,000 of 
those bonds. 

Q. Does the Central Pacific Railroad Company own any of its first- 
mortgage bonds ?— A. No, sir. The company does not own any of its 
bonds. 

Q. Nor any of the Government bonds either'?— A. No, sir. 

Q. What has the Central Pacific Railroad Company got left in the 
way of assets ?— A. It has got about one thousand three hundred miles 
of first-class roads, as well equipped as any road in America, I guess, 
for its business. It has got the best machine-shop in the United States, 
I believe. It makes its own locomotives and has put up as many as 
eight cars a day in its shops at Sacramento. Then it has about forty- 
six millions of stock. 

Q. You mean stock that has never yet been subscribed for or issued ?— 
A. Yes; the capital stock of the company is $100,000,000. 

Q. That represents no value except the value which inheres in the 
franchise ?— A. It is one of those things which, when the road pays 
dividends, will be a good thing to sell if the company wants to put down 
a double track. 

Mr. Hoar,. But at present it is the mere right to acquire T %| of the 
entire property of the road at the price of $16,000,000, or any similar 
proportion. 

The Witness. Yes. 

Q. What else does the Central Pacific Railroad Company own ?— A. 
It has got about $1,000,000 of these land-grant bonds, and it has got 
some money. 

Q. How much money ?— A. I do not know 5 enough to pay its debts, 
I guess. 

Q. Can you not even give the slightest idea— $1.00, or $100,000,000?— 
A. It is not $100,000,000. I suppose the company ought to have from 
one to two million dollars. 

Q. It is your opinion that that is the amount it has?— A. I think so. 

Q. And it has no floating debt ?— A. No floating debt. We have a 
little floating debt ;■ -and then we have $1,500,000 of California and Ore- 
gon bonds, or Central Pacific bonds on that branch. 

Q. That is a mortgage on a branch road that is part of your line?— 
A. Yes, it is included in our 1,300 miles, 

Q. Then that is an undisposed of mortgage on your own property ? — 
A. Yes, but these bonds are marketable any day. 

Q. And the selling of them and realizing on them will increase by 
just that much your own debt, of course? — A. Of course it would in- 
crease the funded debt. 

Q. Now, on the other side, you have the indebtedness which is repre- 
sented by the Government subsidy bonds? — A. Yes. 

Q. That is how much in the aggregate ?— A. About $25,000,000, or 
a little over. 

Q. And your own first-mortgage bonds are how much ?— A. The 
same amount. 

1^. And that is the extent of your indebtedness, is it?— A. Yes, and 
$1,500,000 of State aid. 

Q. Is there anything else that you owe either on the main line or the 
branches? — A. Yes, on the San Joaquin Valley road we owe about 
$6,000,000. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 7l3 

Q. How is that secured? — A. By a mortgage on that branch. 

Q. They are bonds issued and sold, and held by third parties ? — A. 
Yes. 

Q. Does the company owe anything else on the main line or any of its 
branches! — A. Yes; on the California and Oregon branch. We put a 
mortgage on that, and the bonds are issued only as the road is built. 
We have it built to the amount of about $8,000,000, I believe. 

Q. Is that road also subsidized by the Government? — A. Yes; by a 
land-grant. 

Q. Not by bonds ? — A. No : only a land-grant. The San Joaquin 
Valley road has no land-grant and no aid from the General Government. 
That road is 150 miles in length. 

Q. What proportion of the annual interest accruing on the Govern- 
ment bonds has the Central Pacific Railroad Company paid to the Gov- 
ernment, and how has it paid it? — -A. That I cannot answer, but it is a 
matter easily ascertained. 

Q. Can you state whether, in that regard, the Central Pacific Railroad 
Company has been dealt with in the same manner as the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company ? — A. I suppose it has been. If the Government 
would give us its business, instead of sending it round Cape Horn, as it 
does, we would be able to pay all the interest. 

Q. Suppose the Government should require the payment of the whole 
of the interest that accrues semi-annually on these Government bonds, 
except what is paid by the company in the way of transportation, would 
the Central Pacific Railroad Company be able to meet punctually the 
interest as it accrues? — A. I have no doubt myself but that the Central 
Pacific Railroad Company can meet all its legal obligations. 

Q. That does not answer my question. My question is whether, if 
the Government should require the payment of all the interest on all its 
bonds, could the Central Pacific Railroad Company, in that case, pay 
that interest, and also pay the interest on the residue of its bonded 
debt as it falls due? — A. I have no doubt but that it could. We have 
-just commenced putting down steel rails on the road, and we expect to 
have steel rails on all the road in five years. 

Q. What is in round numbers, as near as you can tell, the net annual 
earning of your road? — A. I have not the figures in my mind so clearly 
as to state it ; I was looking over it the other da3 T to see what was the 
net earnings after paying interest and everything, and it amounted to 
some $3,000,000. 

Q. Keeping out of the account all matters of interest, just contrast 
the gross earnings of the road with the outlay for running expenses, 
and exclude the wear and tear and the depreciation of stock and track, 
but simply subtract from your gross earnings the necessary running ex- 
penses, and state what the net earnings of the road ar© as ascertained 
in that way. — A. I understand the question to be how much the road 
earns over its running expenses; the road earned this last year over its 
operating expenses about 00 per cent.; we run the road for little over 
40 per cent, outlay, and the gross receipts were twelve millions eight 
hundred thousand dollars odd. 

Q. Then your net earnings would be 60 per cent, on the gross earn- 
ings ? — A. The earnings over operating expenses would be a little under 
60 per cent.; the operating expenses are over 40 per cent, but under 
42, and the gross earnings were twelve million eight hundred thousand 
dollars odd. 



714 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. Do you embrace in the operating expenses the cost of maintain- 
ing the road ? — A. Most assuredly. 
Q. And the renewal of iron u ? — A. Yes. 

By Mr. Shellabargker : 

Q. You do not include in it the laying of new track for any consider- 
able distance ?-— A. We have done so thus far. I suppose that this 
year we put in twenty miles of iron rail here and there, piecing up. 
This goes into the operating expenses. 

Q. You include, then, in your statement of a little over 40 per cent, 
for operating expenses, this renewing of the track with steel rails 1 — A. 
Ko, not the steel rails, but the renewal of the track with iron rails. I 
presume the steel rail has gone into the construction account. 

By Mr. HOAR : 

Q. I understood you to say that there has as yet been no dividend paid 
by the Central Pacific .Railroad Company to its stockholders 1 — A. That 
is the answer I gave. 

Q. Is it not your belief that the persons who have been prominent in 
the management of the Central Pacific Railroad Company, including 
yourself, received considerable values either in moneys, bonds, or stock, 
as profits on contracts made for its construction % — A. I do not think we 
have made as much as we would have made if we had not gone into the 
road. 

Q. I ask you if it is not your belief that persons active in the man- 
agement of the Central Pacific Railroad Company, including yourself, 
received considerable values (I do not ask whether they were reasonable 
or unreasonable) as profits on contracts for its construction ?— A. I think 
we have. I think I have an interest in a contract of the Contract and 
Financial Company, and I think I have made some money. 

Q. Do you mean to have me understand, by the mode in which you 
answer that question, that any doubt exists in the mind of yourself that 
you have received yourself, while an officer of the Central Pacific Rail- 
road Company, considerable values, either in money, bonds, or stocks, 
as profits upon contracts made for its construction? — A. I think I have. 
I have received no money. 

Q. The question I now put to you is, whether you mean the committee 
to understand from the way in which you make that answer that you 
have any doubt on that subject in your mind ? — A. I am not so clear 
as I would like to be. 

Q. Be good enough to attend to my question. Have you any doubt 
in your mind that you have received considerable values, while a stock- 
holder and officer of the Central Pacific Railroad Company, as profits 
on contracts made for its construction ? — A. If I have received them at 
all it is as a stockholder in the Contract and Finance Company. 

Q. I do not care whether you have received them as your share of the 
profits made by a company of which you were a member, but simply 
whether you have received as profits on contracts made for its construc- 
tion considerable values'? — A. I think I have. 

Q. Have you any doubt of it J ? — A. I have doubts about the course, 
but I presume I have some paper stock. If there have been any profits 
made by my partner I have got some of them., 

Mr. Hoali. I am going to put that question once more, and to ask you 
to give a frank answer to it. 

The Witness. I will endeavor to do so. 



CEEDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 715 

Q. Have you any doubt that you have received, while an officer of 
this Central Pacific Railroad Company, considerable values as profits on 
contracts made for its construction, either in stocks, bonds, or other- 
wise? — A. The only question in my mind is, whether I have received 
any considerable value. I would say that I have received, no doubt, 
some value. The " considerable" I would not want to say. 

Q. Is not the nominal value of the stock which you and your firm 
have received as profits on such contracts more than a million of dol- 
lars? — A. No, I do not think I have received a million of dollars, or 
anything like that, in money's worth. 

Q. I ask you if the nominal value of the stock is not more than a 
million of dollars ? — A. I should thiuk something thereabouts. Without 
saying positively, I should think something approximating thereto. 

Q. In stock of the Central Pacific Railroad Company f — A. Yes. 

Q. Have you not also received considerable values in bonds or other 
"obligations to pay money, as such profits? — A. I have received some; I 
do not know what* 

Q. I am inquiring simply as to your belief as to what you or your 
firm have received as your share of profits on contracts for the con- 
struction of this railroad. Now I ask you if it is not your belief that 
your firm have received, in the shape of bonds, or other obligations to 
pay money, considerable values as your share of such profits! — A. My 
impression is that we have received some values. 

Q. In bonds? — A. Yes; some values. 

Q. Is not that value in bonds which you have received more than a 
hundred thousand dollars, according to your belief ?— A. I should think 
very likely it would be. I should like to ask Mr. Hopkins, if he were 
here. 

Q. So should I. Is it not, according to your belief, more than 
$500,000 which you have received, in bonds? — A. No, sir. 

Q. Give us your best judgment of the amount which you ha ve re- 
ceived in bonds — yourself and your partner? — A. I would like to answer 
that just as it is, but I have not the data, really, to give an intelligent 
answer to it. What is the question? 

Q. I ask you to state, according to your best judgment, the values 
which your firm has received in bonds as your share of the profits from 
the contracts for the construction of the Central Pacific Railroad while 
you were an officer ! — A. I really have not the data to give an intelli- 
gent answer. I said a hundred thousand dollars because I think it 
ought to be more than that. 

Q. You have said that, in your judgment, it was more than $100,000 
and less than $500,000. Can you state it any more nearly than that — 
somewhere between one and five hundred thousand dollars? — A. No; I 
do not know that I would want to. 

Q. Is it not your belief that the practical control of the Contract and 
Finance Company which constructed this railroad, and the practical 
control of the Central Pacific Railroad Company, for which it was con- 
structed, was, at the time of the contract for its construction, and dur- 
ing the execution of that contract, in the same persons ? — A. It is my 
impression. 

Q. I do not know what precise meaning you give to the word "im- 
pression." I ask your belief. — A. It conveys the same idea, I suppose. 

Q. The question is whether it is not your belief that the practical 
control of the Contract aud Finance Company and of the Central Pa- 
cific Railroad Company, at the time of the making of the contract for 
the construction of the road, and during its execution was in the same 



716 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

parties ? — A. My impression is that it was. I should like to say that I 
spoke to a good many people to go into that road, and almost every 
person refused to do so ; and we had great trouble in getting people. 

Q. Does your company have agencies in the principal Atlantic cities, 
or any of them, to make contracts for freight and to look after its freight 
interests ? — A. We have a man in Few York. 

Q. Do you have any connection with that — any supervision ?— A. No, 
sir; that is under the superintendent. 

Q. Does your company have a treasurer or a treasury in New York ? — 
A. No. 

Q. Where does it pay its interest ?— A. At Fisk & Hatch's, in New 
York. 

Q. Do you have any supervision of that ? — A. I generally look after it. 

Q. How much looking after does it require on your part?— A. Well, 
I see that the money is there to pay the interest. 

Q. Twice a year ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. The money is sent from California? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. What are the matters on this side which you say you attend to ? — 
A. Well, I attend to buying all material. Every day I get orders from 
California. 

Q. Material for the maintenance of the road? — A. I just got an order 
yesterday for ten locomotives. 

Q. I do not care to go into details. I see that is an important duty. 
Now what other duty do you attend to besides buying material? — A. I 
am president of the Chesapeake and Ohio road. 

Q. I do not mean other business. You describe your office as attend- 
ing to matters on this side. I want to know generally what you attend 
to ? — A. I do not think of anything else. 

Q. Are there any other officers or servants of the road on this side 
except yourself, the freight agents, and the men who pay this money to 
the bondholders ? — A. No, sir; there are no other agents on this side. 

Q. What is the salary of the president?— A. I think it is $10,000. 

Q. What is the salary of the treasurer ?— A. I think it is $10,000. 

Q. And of the vice president? — A. I think it is $10,000. It is cred- 
ited to me out there, and I draw upon it from tiuie to time. It was 
$10,000 a year, and I suppose it is that yet. 

Q. Do you have a compensation or commission in addition to your 
salary for the purchase of these materials? — A. The last monthly state- 
ment I sent out to California was one million and odd dollars. I send 
out every mouth a statement and they take it and put it on their books, 
and I have never made one shilling out of it as percentage or commis- 
sion. 

Q. I am not directing any iuquiry which has for it the purpose of in- 
vestigating whether you have dealt honestly with the company or 
whether you have been improperly paid. I do not mean to suggest that 
there is any doubt in my mind about your honesty. I simply want to 
know whether, in addition to this salary of vice president, whatever it 
may be, you have employment for the road which warrants the payment 
to you of a commission or a percentage ? — A. No, sir; there is none. I 
never got one cent commission from the road. 

Q. What are the duties of Mr. Franchot ?— A. Well, if you will allow 
me, he acts 

Q. In the first place his duties, as I understand, are subordinate to 
you — that is, they are conducted under your general direction. — A. Yes, 
sir. 

Q. Now, what are the duties?— A. I have known General Franchot 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 717 

for thirty years. He is a son of old Judge Franchot, of New York. I 
got him in 1866 to come here to look after some land matters in the In- 
terior Department, and certain matters in the Treasury Department, 
and Commissary Department, where we get our money for the Govern- 
ment freight, and also to attend to other matters here. If we should 
have any matters before Congress, he could go before the committees and 
make such explanations and statements as were necessary. 

Q. What proportion of his duties, so far as you understand them, con- 
sisted iu going before Congress ; is that aii5 T considerable proportion?— 
A. That is, perhaps, a considerable proportion. We have now a bill 
before Congress — the Goat Island bill. Perhaps it is an even chance 
that they are going to force us 68 miles around the city when we are 
within seven miles of 'it. 

Q. Is it any considerable portion of his duties to appeal to members 
in private conversation so as to bring the interest of the road to their 
knowledge, and urge upon them the views which the road entertains in 
regard to pending questions? — A. General Franchot's business, if you 
will allow me, is to enlighten members of Congress on the merits of any- 
thing we may have before Congress. 

Q. Does a considerable proportion of his business consist in what is 
ordinarily known 3s lobbying? — A. No ; I do not consider it lobbying 
at all. He is the agent of the Central Pacific Railroad Company, and 
a gentleman, I believe, above reproach. I have known him for thirty 
years. 

Q. Were you here with him during the session of 1864 at the time of 
the passage of the railroad legislation of that year ? — A. My impression 
is, if you will allow me, that General Franchot was not here then, at all. 

Q. Who was here then doing, in behalf of the Central Pacific Rail- 
road, the services wmich you now say General Franchot does?— A. I 
was here myself. 

Q. Did you expend, for any purpose while you were in Washington, 
any moneys belonging to any railroad company, or any stock, or bonds 
of any railroad company, or the proceeds of them ? — A. If I under- 
stand the question, I answer no. If the question is, whether I expended 
any money in Washington, I answer yes ; but if I expended any money 
here at the Capitol, if you will allow me, I say no. 

Q. I am asking you whether you made any expenditure of the char- 
acter I have mentioned. I do not, of course, mean your hotel bills, but 
any expenditures of the character described. I do not confine my ques- 
tion to expenditures in regard to Congress. 

The Witness. I wish you would repeat the question. 

Mr. Hoar. The question is, if, while you were in Washington during 
the session of Congress of 1864, you expended for any purpose or dis- 
posed of any moneys belonging to any railroad company, or any bonds 
or stock of any railroad company, or the proceeds thereof? — A. ISTo, 
sir; I did not, to the best of my knowledge and belief. I speak more 
from my way of doing things than from any recollection. 

Q. Do you know of placing in the hands or under the control of 
Joseph B. Stewart, by yourself or anybody else, any cash, bonds, or 
stock of the character I have described ? — A. I saw in his testimony 
that he says I gave him $2,000 in cash. I have no recollection of it, 
but if he says so it is probable 1 did so. 

Q. For what services did you give him $2,000, to your recollection? — 
A. I came here iu 1864. I had no experience in these things, and have 
not now for that matter. I met Joseph B. Stewart. I recollect him as 



718 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

being a man who was said to have considerable influence here, to be used 
in the proper way. 

Q. Have you any knowledge of any transaction by which Mr. Stewart 
acquired a sum exceeding $2u0,000 in railroad bonds ? — A. I know noth- 
ing about it. 

Q. You heard of no such, transaction ? — A. Nothing but what I have 
seen in the newspapers lately. 

Q. Did you make any contracts here in behalf of any railroad you 
represented ( ? — A. No, sir ; I have no recollection of it. If you mean I 
used any money, I say positively no. 

Q. Did you employ Mr. Alexander Hay for any purpose during that 
session ? — A. I do not think I know Mr. Hay. 

Q. Mr. Alexander Hay is an elderly gentleman,* who says he has been 
a practicing lawyer for a good many years, and on intimate relations with 
Mr. Stewart, and he says he took an active interest in getting the act of 
1864 passed, at the instance of Mr. Thomas 0. Durant, Mr. Stewart, and 
of a California gentleman named Huntington, who he believes was vice- 
president of the Central Pacific Railroad Company? — A. If I ever saw 
Mr. Hay I have no recollection of it now. Possibly he is correct if he 
says he did know me. 

Q. He says he received a sum of between five and thirty thousand 
dollars for the services he rendered at the instance of those gentlemen? — 
A. If he go.t any from me I don't know how he got it. 

Q. You say you don't know Mr. Hay ? 1 will read you a portion of 
his testimony : " Mr. Huntington, a short time before the passage of the 
act of 1864 through the House of Representatives, stopped at my room. 
I said to him that the votes on the bill were so strong that I did not 
think they would call the yeas and nays on the final passage. He tapped 
me ou the shoulder, and said if the bill passed in that way he would 
make me a present. I met him in New York a few days afterward, and 
reminded him of his promise, the bill having passed in that way. He 
said he would see me in the afternoon about it. I did not see him in 
the afternoon and have not seen him since." I understand you to say 
you have no recollection of employing this gentleman? — A. I have no 
recollection of meeting him, but if he says so, it is fair to presume that 
I did. 

Q. Do you know, or have you any knowledge or information from 
others, of any money or thing of value whatever having been paid directly 
or indirectly to any member of Congress for the sake of interesting him 
in any mode in legislation in which the Central Pacific Railroad Com- 
pany was concerned at any time or anywhere ? — A. No, sir ; no. 

Q. Have you ever had such a transaction reported to you by any 
gentleman, or by any person with whom you consulted about railroad 
matters, as financial agent? — A. No, sir; never. 

Q. Do you make that denial comprehensive enough to cover all the 
time you were connected with the Central Pacific Railroad ? — A. Yes; 
and I say that from general principles rather than from remembering 
everything I have done for the last ten years. 

Q. Have you any knowledge of any transactions which took place in 
1863 and 1864, before the passage of the act of 1864, with any north- 
western railroad company, the effect of which was to remove their oppo- 
sition or the opposition of persons interested in them to the passage of 
the act of 1864. I refer to an Iowa or Kansas road ? — A. No; I have 
not. I did not know much about those things; I was pretty busy about 
my own matters. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 719 

Q. Did you have any negotiations with Mr. Hallefc, or General Fre- 
mont, or his agent? — A. No; I am happy to say I never did. 

Q. I understand you that all the archives of the road — the engineer's 
estimates and reports as to its construction, the accounts for disburse- 
ments of money for general purposes — are on the other side? — A. I have 
never had any records of the construction department on this side. 

Q. So far as you know those records are on the other side? — A. Yes, 
sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Where are the offices of this contracting company? — A. In Sacra- 
mento, I believe; they are in California. 

Q. Do you know whether they were in the same office as the Central 
Pacific Railroad Company % — A. I do not. My impression is that they 
were in the same block of buildings. 

Q. Were they not in the same room ? — A. No ; I am quite sure not. 

Q. ki the same building? — A. I think they are in the same building. 

Q. Are not the offices right together, in connecting rooms ? — A. I 
think there is easy access from one to the other. 

Q. Are they not really in the same rooms — this contracting company's 
office and the office of the Central Pacific Eailroad Company ? — A. They 
are in the Stanford block, in Sacramento. Stanford owns 40 feet of it, 
I own 40 feet, and Mr. Hopkins has an interest in them. They are three 
separate buildings, and owned by three separate parties. The rooms 
above the stores are used for offices. The Contract and Fi nance Company 
occupy some of them, and the Central Pacific Eailroad Company occupy 
some. 

Q. And all these offices, the Central Pacific's and the Contract and 
Finance Company's, are all connected, one with another '? — A. Yes, sir; I 
think so. 

Q. How was it when this work was going on, when the contract was 
being executed, was it the same*? — A. I was not there, but I presume it 
was so. 

Q. Do you know whether the employes of the two offices were the 
same? — A. I should think not. 

Q. Can you state in round numbers the present bonded indebtedness 
of the Central Pacific Railroad Company, including the Government 
bonds ? — A. I think on the one thousand three hundred miles of road 
there are about $70,000,000 of debt, 

Q. When you speak of the gross earnings being about $12,000,000 a 
year, do you have reference to the earnings of the Central Pacific Rail- 
road proper, or the earnings of the Central Pacific Railroad in connec- 
tion with those other roads with which it is consolidated ? — A. We run 
it as one road. 

Q. You consider it all as one road? — A. Yes, sir; as one road. 

Q. Are you paying any dividends on any of those roads with which 
it has been consolidated? — A. No; we cannot pay dividends. 

Q. The bonded^ indebtedness on the whole one thousand three hun- 
dred miles is $70,000,000, is it not? — A. I should state, on figuring it up, 
about 675,000,000. 

Q. What is the rate of interest? — A. Six per cent, on the Govern- 
ments, and 6 per cent., I guess, on everything except the State aids. 
The State pays the interest on those at 7 per cent. 

Q. Your interest account, then, would be about $4,200,000 a year? — 
A. Yes, sir; about that — that is, counting Government interest. 

Q. Is that interest gold, or currency ? — A. The interest is gold. 



720 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Q. The Government bonds are not gold? — A. No; they are currency. 
I believe the Government has never been called, west of Salt Lake, to 
do anything since we started in there. We have taken care of the 
Indians, and the forts have all been taken away. We have taken care 
of the Indians, and frequently at great expense. We have never called 
for a soldier on the line of the road. We are at considerable expense 
in taking care of them. 

By Mr. Ho^R: 
Q. Is not that ultra vires for a corporation ? — A. No, sir ; we do not 
give them anything strong — not a drop, not a drop. 

Mr. Hoar. I see you translate ultra vires extra strength. (Laughter.) 

By the Chairman : 

Q. Your operating expenses are about 42 per cent. ? — A. Yes, sir. 

Q. That would leave you about $5,000,000 a year over your operating- 
expenses ? — A. Yes, sir. « 

Q. Your interest is $1,200,000 a year, and, together with your operat- 
ing expenses, the total would be $9,200,000, and your net earnings are 
$12,000,000 and upwards, which would leave you an excess of $3,000,- 
000? — A. About that; that is about as I have it in my mind. 

Q. What application are you making of this excess of $3,000,000 a 
year? — A. Well, we expect to pay some dividends by and by. Then we 
are going to put down steel rails. 

Q. How long have you been receiving $3,000,000 excess? — A. Not 
until this year. 

Q. # What was it last year! — A. We just paid the interest last year. 
We have been building continually ; building these branches and 
strengthening the road in every way. All our surplus has gone into 
new roads. 

By Mr. Shellabarg>er : 

Q. Give to me in detail the elements that make up the $75,000,000 of 
bonded indebtedness on the road, mentioning each class of bonds sepa- 
rately. — A. There are the first- mortgage bonds, say $25,000,000 ; the 
Government bonds to a like amount, $25,000,000 more; the land- 
grant bonds, $10,000,000; the San Joaquin bonds,. $6,000,000; the Cali- 
fornia and Oregon bonds, say another $6,000,000; (about $cS,000,000 of 
those bonds were authorized to be issued, but only $6,000,000 have been 
sold;) the Western Pacific, $2,700,000. There is a million and a half of 
State aids, on which we do not pay any interest, making a total of about 
$76,000,000. 

Q. These branches include all that go to make up the aggregate of 
13,000 miles of road ? — A. Yes, sir. We are rather proud of what we 
have done for the Government over there. 

By the Chairman : 
Q. I have been directing your attention to these things with a view 
of asking you one more question ; Mr. Shellabarger inquired of you as 
to the value of the stock, and you said that it is not selling on the mar- 
ket? — A. I would like to answer that, but I have not any definite idea 
of what the stock is worth. I would not sell my stock for less than 50 
cents. 

By Mr. Hoar : 
Q. Is there anywhere, to your knowledge, any aggregate statement 
of the cost of this road to the company ? — A. O, yes. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 721 

Q. I do not speak of what they paid in stocks and bonds that were 
not worth par, but I speak of what the contractors actually received. — 
A. I do not know where you would arrive at that ; as we make it up, the 
cost of the road is the bonded debt and stock. 

Q. That I don't care anything about. You are aware that the act of 
Congress under which you built the railroad provides that, whenever 
the earnings of the road amount to- 10 per cent, on its cost, Congress 
then has the important right to legislate for the reduction of fares. 
Now is there anywhere in the archives of the company, or anywhere 
else, any record which will show what the real actual cost was, as dis- 
tinguished from nominal values and paper transactions ? — A. I suppose 
the cost of the road would include discounts, interests, commissions, 
and all those expenditures that always follow the building of a road and 
the negotiation of its securities. 

Q. You are aware, of course, that if the entire capital stock of the road 
were $25,000,000, which was not paid for in cash but taken on these con- 
struction-contracts, the holders of the stock would own the whole prop- 
erty of the road subject to its debts, whatever they might be. Now it would 
make no difference to the holders of the stock whether it was $25,000,000 
or $100,000,000, divided precisely among the same persons. That would 
be a mere nominal and not an actual value. Of course, then, the amount 
of stock ought not to be taken as a basis for computing the cost of the 
road under the act of Congress unless it had in fact been given out by the 
company for so much money's worth received in road-building. Now have 
you any correct computation of the actual cost of that road in cash ? — 
A. If you will allow me, I think there never was a road built but what 
a part of its cost represented a profit to somebody. I have lain awake, 
I presume, a thousand nights, since 1881, to find out where the money 
was coming from to pay our bills. 

Q. You don't seem to have found out enough yet to tell the committee 
about it % — A. These are the facts ; these things I know. The actual 
cost of the road is the bonds and the stock, in my opinion. 

Q. There is no computation in existence on any other basis that you 
are aware of? — A. No, sir; only the stock at its par value, and the 
bonds at their par value. I built a road in the western country, where 
they gave me $10,000,000 after the work was done, and they made a bet- 
ter trade than I did. I had completed the road, and they gave me a 
bonus of $10,000,000. 

By Mr. Shellabarger : 

Q. You have given us some idea of what yoa probably got in the way 
of dividends, or profits, as members of this construction company; now 
will you tell us in round numbers what the company got in the aggre- 
gate? — A. No, sir; my impression is that we got the first-mortgage 
bonds, the Government bonds, and a portion of the stock for building 
the road. I do not think there was any illegitimate profit. 

Q. My question is this : It is not what was paid out by the Central 
Pacific Kailroad in pay for work, but what was paid out to all the mem- 
bers of the contractin gcompany in the way of profit 1 — A. I could not 
answer that. 

Q. Can you tell us, then, any reasonable approximation to the amount? 
— A. No, I could nor. 

Q. Where can we learn that ? — A. I suppose that Mr. Crocker could 
tell you; he was president of the company. So could Mr. Mark Hopkins, 
Leland Stanford, and Mr. Miller. 

Q. Is there anyone in the eastern part of the country that can give 
46 c M * 



722 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

us the information % — A. No, sir ; that matter has been attended to over 
there. The books are over there, and it is a matter I know nothings 
about. 

Q. Now this construction company that made that part of the road 
which it did make, of course kept books 1 — A. I should suppose so. 

Q. Those books ought to show wnat they paid out for material and 
for work in completing their contract ? — A. I should think so. 

Q. And that will show us the cost of the road so far as the outlays of 
the construction company would show? — A. I should suppose so 5 it 
would seem so. 

Q. Now, what is it you add (in ascertaining, under the act of Congress, 
the cost of the road, for the purpose of fixing the amount upon which 
dividends are to be made before Congress shall regulate the rates of 
fare;) what is it that you add to the cost of material for making the- 
road and equipping it, and the cost of its depots and stations, and those 
other things enumerated in the act of Congress which are to be done 
before the Government subsidies are issued — what do you add to this- 
as additional elements in making up the cost of the road ? — A. Well, the 
cost of the road would be simply what the road cost ; and to get that 
you find out how many bonds of the road are out and how much stock. 

Q. That does not answer my question. — A. I don't know any other 
way to get at it. They made a fair contract to build the road — at least 
I have no doubt of it. I do not believe that a shilling has gone out 
that should not go out. I speak of that more from what I know of the 
men who were engaged in it. They are all high-toned, honorable men. 

Q. That still does not answer my question. Assuming that the con- 
struction company and the Central Pacific Railroad Company are one 
thing, are composed of the same persons, (and in dealing with the Gov- 
ernment we will treat them as one,) then excluding all the profits that 
were made by the construction company, what did the Central Pacific 
Railroad Company pay out as the cost of the road for these various 
things that are enumerated in the act of Congress as the things whick 
were to be completed before they should be entitled to the bonds of the 
United States ; and in order to make my question more definite, let me 
read you from the act of Congress the things that are to be completed 
before the road is entitled to its bonds. The fourth section of the act 
of 1862 contains the following : " That whenever said company shall 
have completed 40 consecutive miles fit was changed to 20 by the act of 
1864] of any portion of the said road and telegraph-line ready for the 
service contemplated by this act, and supplied with all necessary cul- 
verts, viaducts, crossings, sidings, bridges, turnouts, watering-places, 
depots, equipments, furniture, and all other appurtenances of a first-class 
railroad — the rails and all other iron used in the construction of the 
road to be of American manufacture of the best quality," &c. Now, 
what would you add as a part of the cost of the road to the cost of these 
things that I have just read ? — A. I do not know. A perfect first-class 
road wants many things. There are many things that enter into the 
cost of construction that you cannot enumerate. The engineer is gener- 
ally allowed ten per cent. That enters into the cost of constructing 
the road. 

Adjourned. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 723 

Washington, D. C, February 19, 1873. 
Oakes Ames recalled. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Look at the paper now handed to you and state whether 
that agreement was entered into by the parties signing it ? — Answer. I 
think it was. There was such an agreement, to retain the control of 60 
per cent, of the stock. 

Mr. Hoar. They should agree to vote for such persons as the majority 
of the board of directors should nominate for their successors, or else 
keep those directors themselves in office. Was that the agreement ! 

The Witness. I think so. 

The agreement was put in evidence, and is as follows : 

Memorandum of agreement made this 16th day of October, 1867, 
between Thomas C. Durant, Oliver Ames, John B. Alley, Sidney Dillon, 
Cornelius S. Bushnell, Henry S. McComb, and Benjamin E.Bates, wit- 
nesseth as follows : 

The undersigned, being the owners of shares and holders of certain 
proxies of the shareholders of the Union Pacific Bailroad Company, and 
expecting hereafter to hold other shares and proxies for other snares 
therein, for the protection of our mutual interests and the interests of 
our constituents, do hereby mutually agree, each with the other, at any 
and every election of directors of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, 
to vote upon the shares of stock then standing in our own names respect- 
ively and upon such shares as we hold or may hereafter hold proxies 
therefor for such persons as directors of the said Union Pacific Eailroad 
Company as may be nominated at or before each annual stockholders' 
meeting of said company by a majority of the then existing board of 
directors not appointed by the President of the United States, and no 
others ; and in failure of such nomination for any reason by the said 
existing board of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, we then agree 
to vote for the re-election of the elected members of the then existing 
board. It is further agreed that, in case any one or more of the parties 
hefeto fails or neglects to perform and stand to any of the agreements 
and covenants herein contained, that he shall not be entitled to or claim 
any benefit or right under or by virtue of any of the trusts or agree- 
ments contained in a certain memorandum of agreement heretofore 
made and concluded by and between Oakes Ames, of North Easton, Mas- 
sachusetts, party of the first part, and the Credit Mobilier of America, 
a party of the third part, but the said shares and proportion of the 
said party so in default shall become the property of and be divided 
among the said several remaining parties for whose benefits said trusts 
in said agreement are declared. In witness whereof the said parties 
have hereunto subscribed their names this day and year first above 
written. 

OL1YEE AMES. 

JOHN B. ALLEY. 

COENELIUS S. BUSHNELL. 

SIDNEY DILLON. 

H. S. McCOMB. 

THOMAS C. DURANT. 

B. E. BATES. 

Signed and sealed and executed in presence of — 
Chaeles Bell. 



724 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

By the Chairman : 

Q. You have informed the committee that you desired to make some 
corrections in your testimony as printed. What are they ? — A. On page 
25, instead of the words "$16,000 a mile in stock/ 7 1 want to insert 
" $16,000 a mile in first-mortgage bonds." 

The answer referred to will then read as follows : " On 150 miles of 
the road which was built over the Eocky Mountains, we got $48,000 a 
mile in Government bonds, and $48,000 in first-mortgage bonds ; from 
the termination of the Hoxie contract to the Eocky Mountains we were 
paid at the rate of $16,000 per mile in Government bonds and $16,000 
a mile in first-mortgage bonds. What the bonds did not pay for we 
took in stock at par. 77 

I also wish to strike out in the next anwer the words " stock and. 77 

The answer referred to will then read as follows : 

" After we passed the 150 miles, for which we got $48,000 a mile in 
Government bonds and $48,000 in first-mortgage bonds, we received 
for the rest of the way $32,000 a mile in Government bonds and $32,000 
in first-mortgage bonds. 77 

Then in another answer on the same page I wish to strike out the 
words "we, the people/ 7 and to substitute for them the words, "the 
trustees. 77 

The paragraphs referred to will then read as follows: 

" Q. Do you know how much was paid on those contracts I — A. No, 
sir; but it is my impression that the contractors lost money, although it 
did not cost nearly as much as the work we did. 

" Q. Whom do you mean by we ! — A. The trustees who carried out the 
Oakes Ames contract. 77 

Then in another answer I wish to make " $50,000 and $60,000 per 
mile 77 read " $60,000 and $70,000 per mile. 77 

The question and answer as corrected will then read as follows : 

"Q. That is an average of how much per mile? — A. Between $60,000 
and $70,000 per mile. The length of the road is about ten hundred 
and fiftv miles. 77 

In a subsequent paragraph " $26,000,000 77 should be " $16,O00,OO0. 77 

The paragraph will then read as follows : 

" Q. So that, in other words, the company would have $16,000,000 to 
show for its capital stock, besides the lands which the Government has 
conveyed to it, or is hereafter to convey to it ? — A. Yes. 77 

On page 26, where " $60,000,000 » occurs it should be " $70,000,000." 

The paragraph as corrected will then read : 

" Q. Do you mean to say to the committee that your best judgment 
is that on the entire cost of constructing and equipping that road, about 
$70,000,000, the profit to the various persons who contracted to do it 
amounted only to about $7,000,000? — A. I think that would cover it ; 
hardly as much as railroad contractors get in ordinary contracts. 77 

On page 29, the word "Adams 77 should be "Alley.' 7 The sentence will 
then read : 

" I guaranteed Mr. Alley, and I offered to guarantee Mr. Hooper. 77 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



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CREDIT MOBILIEE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD, 



State of New York, 

City and County of New York, ss : • 

I, Nathaniel Gill, a commissioner for the State of Bhode Island in 
and for the city, county, and State of New York, duly commissioned and 
sworn, and dwelling in the city of New York, do hereby certify that I 
have this day carefully examined and compared the foregoing copy of a 
certain instrument with the original instrument of which the same pur- 
ports to be a copy, and, after such examination and comparison, I hereby 
further certify that the foregoing is a true and correct copy of the said 
original instrument, and of the whole thereof, and of the signatures 
thereto set and subscribed. 

In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my 
official seal, at the city of New York, this 13th day of September, A. IK 
1870. 



SEAL. 



NATHANIEL GILL, 
Commissioner for Bhode Island in New York. 



[U. S. revenue-stamp, 5-c ; canceled.] 



RECEIPTS UNDER, TRIPLICATE AGREEMENT. 

Eeceived of Thomas G. Durant, Oliver Ames, John B. Alley, Sidney 
Dillon, Cornelius S. Bushnell, Henry S. McComb, and Benjamin E. 
Bates the sums set opposite our respective names, in full of the divi- 
dend declared January 3, 1868, under and pursuant to the foregoing 
contracts, and. payable on the 3d day of January, 1868. And we do 
hereby, severally, in eonsideration of the amounts so received by us, 
consent to and approve of the foregoing contracts, and agree, severally, 
to be bound by and conform to all the terms and conditions of said 
agreement; and we do hereby release the said Thomas 0. Durant, 
Oliver Ames, and their associates from all liability, personal or other- 
wise, by reason of their acts as parties to said foregoing triplicate 
agreement. 



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400 


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do 


Do. 




5 


100 
32, 400 


do 


Do. 
Do. 




' 1, 620 
330 


....do 




. 7, 600 


do 


Do. 





Oliver W. Barnes 

Thomas C. Durant. . 

"Willie Davis Train 

Ij. En gene French 

Charles A. Lamhard 

Sidney Dillon, president 

Sidney Dillon 

William T. Glidden 

J. M. S. Williams 

3t.G. Hazard 

Oliver S. Chapman. . . . . . 

Oliver Ames 

C. S. Bushnell 

William H. Macy 

J. H. Scran ton 

G.G.Gray 

Joseph Nickerson 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



729 



Receipts under triplicate agreement — Continued. 



Names. 


u 
o 

■ 3| 

£ a 

8 3 

o 

o 

o 

w 


8*1 

OZ -r-C o 

.2 01 eg 

n o 


Signatures. 






Shares. 

750 

500 

250 

290 

380 

750 

185 

137 

945 

. 380 

1,955 

622 

623 

50 

750 

6 

380 

150 

712 

710 

300 

80 

5 

128 

150 

300 

80 

750 

500 

100 

1, 200 

125 

75 

50 

100 

625 

200 

100 

100 

50 

100 

50 

34 

13 

20 

10 

11 

1 

1 

150 

50 

100 

100 

100 

500 

1,880 

100 

500 

5 

10 

455 

25 

92 

200 

75 

100 

100 

500 

60 

50 

93 


$15, 000 

10, 000 

5,000 

5, 80C 

7,600 

15,000 

3,700 

2, 740 

18, 900 

7,600 

39, 100 

12, 440 

12, 460 

1,000 

15, 000 

120 

7,600 

3,000 

14, 240 

14, 200 
6,000 
1,600 

100 
2,560 
3,000 
6,000 
1,600 

15, 000 
10, 000 

2,000 

24, 000 

2,500 

1,500 

1, 000 

2,000 

12, 500 

4,000 

2,000 

2,000 

1,000 

2,000 

1,000 

680 

260 

400 

200. 

220 

20 

20 

3,000 

1,000 

2,000 

2,000 

2,000 

10, 000 

37, 600 

2,000 

10, 000 

100 

200 

8,100 

500 

1,840 

4,000 

1,500 

2,000 

2,000 

10,000 

1,200 

1,000 

1,860 


Oliver "W. Barnes and others . . 
do 


2 ct. int.-rev. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. • 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 

Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Po. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
, Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. ' 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. . 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 


stamp. 


Benj. E. Bates 




do 




John B Alley 


do 






do 






do 






do 






do 




Cyrus H. McCormick 


do 




do 






do 






do 






do 






E. H. Baker, jr., by Howes 

Baker, attorney, and others. 

do 




H. S McComb 




Paul Pohl jr 


do 






do 






do 






do 






do 






do 




C. C Waite . . 


do : 




B. D. Stewart 


do 




H. C. Crane 


do 




E. W. Gilmore 


do 






do 




John L. King : 


do 






do 






do 






do 




J. B. Pigot 


do 






do 






do 




Ezekiel H. Trowbridge 


do 






do 






do .' 






...do 






do 






do 




Sewell H. Fessenden 


do 






do 




Pierepont B. Foster 


do 




Elizabeth Hazard 


do 




Elizabeth Hazard, trustee 


do 






do 




Mary P. Hazard 


do 




I/ydia Torry 


do 






do 






do .. 






do 




Win. C. Bristol 


... do 






...do 




Eli Beard 


do 




Gamaliel Bradford 


do ....:... 




Be Grand Lockwood 


do .. 




John K. Dnff 


... do 




Samuel T. Dana 


...do ... 






.. do 




Robert G. S. McNeil 


do 




E.C.Moore 


do 




J.N. Smith 


do ... 




Aaron Hobert, jr 


do . . 




Isaac Thatcher 


... do . 




James B. Johnston 


do 


• 


D. M. Boy er 


. do 




Charles H. Neilson 


do . 




J. Hedden 


do 




P. Skinner &. Co 


do 




H. C. Crane, trustee 


do 




Charles H. Neilson 


.. do 




Oakes Ames, trustee 


do 











730 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



Dividend of E. G. Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of I. P. Hazard was receipted for by E. G-. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of E. Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney, 

Dividend of Elizabeth Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, 
attorney 

Dividend of Elizabeth Hazard, trustee, was receipted for by E. G. 
Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of Mary P. Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, 
attorney. 

Dividend of Anna Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, 
attorney. 

Dividend of Anna Horner was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, 
attorney. 

Dividend of Lydia Torrey was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, 
attorney. 

Dividend of Sophia Yernon was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, 
attorney. 

State of New York, 

City and County of New Yorlc, ss : 

I, Nathaniel Gill, a commissioner for the State of Ehode Island in 
New York, duly commissioned and sworn, and residing in New York 
City, do hereby certify that I have this day carefully examined and 
compared the foregoing copy of a certain instrument with the original 
instrument of which it purports to be a copy, and, after such examina- 
tion and comparison, I hereby further certify that the foregoing is a true 
and correct copy of said original instrument and of the whole thereof, 
save only the signatures thereto subscribed. 

In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my 
official seal, at the city of New York, this 13th day of September, A. D. 
1870. 

[SEAL.] NATHANIEL GILL, 

Commissioner for Rhode Island in Neiv York. 

[U. S. internal-revenue 5-c. stamp; canceled.] 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



731 



Received of Thomas 0. Durant, Oliver Ames, Joliri Duff, Sidney Dillon, 
Cornelius S. Bushnell", Henry S. McOomb, and Benjamin E. Bates, 
the sums set opposite our respective names, in full of the dividend de- 
clared June 17, 1868, under and pursuant to the foregoing contracts, 
and payable on the 17th day of June, 1868 ; and we do hereby severally, 
in consideration of the amount so received by us, consent to and ap- 
prove of the foregoing contracts, and agree severally to be bound by 
and conform to all the terms and conditions of said agreements; and we 
do hereby release the said Thomas 0. Durant, Oliver Ames, and their 
associates, from all liability, personal or otherwise, by reason of their 
acts as parties to said foregoing triplicate agreement. 



Xaines. 




Signatures. 



John B. Alley 



Oakes Ames 

Oakes Ames, trustee 

Oliver Ames 

Prank W. Andrews . 

Elisha Atkins 

Ezra H. Baker 

Ezra H. Baker, jr . . . 

Josiah Bardweli 

Josiah Bardwell, trustee 

Oliver W. Barnes 

Benjamin E. Bates 

Benjamin E. Bates, trus- 
* tee for Mrs. Laura E. 

Morse. 

Eli Beard 

Sylvester M. Beard 

Henry Blood 

B. M.Boyer 

Gamaliel Bradford 

William B. Bristol 

C.S. Bushnell 

Oliver S. Chapman 

Oliver Charlick 

H. C. Crane 

H C Crane, trustee 

William A. Cummings. 

John M. Davis 

Martin Zborowski 

Sidney Dillon 

Anna M. Dodge 

John Robinson Duff 

Thomas C. Durant 

Sewall H Fessenden...! 

Pierepont B. Foster 

E. Eugene French j 

John Gardiner, trustee J 

Horatio Gilbert 

Horatio J. Gilbert. . . 

E. W. Gilmore 

William T. Glidden . 

G.G.Gray 

H. W.Gray | 

James W. Grimes 

B.G.Hazard 

Isaac P. Hazard 

P.. Hazard 

Elizabeth Hazard 

Elizabeth Hazard, trus 

tee. 

Mary P. Hazard 

Anna Hazard 

-J. Hedden 

Aaron Hobart.jr 

Ben. Halliday 

Samuel Hooper &, Co. . 

Anna Horner 

Henry Hotchkiss 

James B. Johnston. . . . 
David Jones 



Shares. 
290 

1,955 

343 

4,680 

100 

622 

623 

50 

665 

300 

15 

500 

45 



100 

100 

4 

75 

100 

50 

510 

412 

3 

128 

180 

100 

500 

100 

1, 005 

100 

1,880 

5,658 

50 

50 

20 

625 

185 

137 

150 

625 

1, 350 

50 

380 

1,610 

380 

380 

34 

13 

10 

20 

100 

25 

750 

750 

1 

150 

200 

380 



$116 00 

782 00 

137 20 

L, 872 00 

40 00 

248 80 

249 20 
20 00 

266 00 

120*00 

6.00 

200 00 

18 00 



40 00 

40 00 

1 60 

30 00 

40 00 

20 00 

204 00 

164 80 

1 20 

51 20 

72 00 

40 00 

200 00 

40 00 

402 00 

40 00 

752 00 

2, 263 20 

20 00 

20 00 

8 00 

2.50 00 

74 00 

54 80 

60 00 

250 00 

540 00 

20 00 I 

152 00 

644 00 

152 00 

152 00 

13 60 I 

5 20 

4 00 

8 00 

40 00 

10 00 

300 00 

300 00 

40 

60 00 

80 00 

152 00 



$17,400 00 

117, 300 00 

20, 580 00 

280, 800 00 

6, 000 00 

37, 320 00 

37, 380 00 

3, 000 00 
39, 900 00 

18, 000 00 

900 00 

30, 000 00 

9, 700 00 



6, 000 00 

6, 000 00 

240 00 

4, 500 00 

6, 000 00 
3, 000 00 

30, 600 00 

24, 720 00 

180 00 

7, 680 00 

10, 800 00 
6, 000 00 

30, 000 00 

6, 000 00 

60, 300 00 

6, 000 00 

112, 800 00 

339, 480 00 

3, 000 00 

3, 000 00 

1, 200 00 
37, 500 00 

11, 100 00 

8, 220 00 

9, 000 00 
37, 500 00 
81,000 00 

3, 000 00 
22, 800 00 
96, 600 00 
22, 8C0 00 
22, 800 00 

2, 040 00 
780 00 

600 00 

1, 200 00 

6, 000 00 

1, 500 00 

45, 000 00 

45, 000 00 

60 00 

9, 000 00 

12, 000 00 
22, 800 00 



John B. Alley and others. 



[2-cent rev. 
stamp.] 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 



Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 



732 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



Names. 


Stock Credit 
Mobilier of 
America. 


Dividend in 
stock Union 
Pacific Com- 
pany. 


<B eg 

5 


Signatures. 


John L. King 


Shares. 
100 
100 
500 
100 
300 
1.250 
945 
5 

10 
150 
250 
380 
150 
712 
100 
150 
' 6 

50 
100 
300 
125 
5 
250 
250 

405 

• 30 

50 

5 

92 

11 

175 

50 

75 

1 

80 

620 


$40 00 

40 00 

200 00 

40 00 

120 00 

500 00 

378 00 

2 00 

4 00 

60 00 

100 00 

152 00 

60 00 

284 80 

40 00 

60 00 

2 40 

20 00 

40 00 

120 00 

50 00 

2 00 

100 00 

100 00 

162 00 

12 00 

20 00 

2 00 

36 80 

' 4 40 

70 00 

20 00 

30 00 

40 

32 00 

248 00 


$6, 000 00 

6, 000 00 

30, 000 00 

6, 000 00 

18, 000 00 

75, 000 00 

56, 700 00 

300 00 

600 00 

9, 000 00 

15, 000 00 

22, 8G0 00 

9, 000 00 

42, 720 00 

6, OLIO 00 

9, 000 00 

360 00 

3, 000 00 

6, 000 00 

18,000 00 

7, 500 00 

300 00 

15, 000 00 

15, 000 00 

24, 300 00 

1, 800 00 

3, 000 00 

300 00 

5, 520 00 

660 00 

10, 500 00 

3, OfiO 00 
4, 500 00 

60 00 

4, 800 00 
37, 200 00 


[2-cent rev. 

stamp.] 

Do. 

Do. 




Le Grand Lockwood . . . 


Wm. H. Macy 


Do. 


H.S.McComb 


Do. 


Cyrus H. McCormick.. 
Robert G.S. McNeil.... 
E. C. Moore 


Do. 
Do. 
Do. 


Charles Neilson 

Frederick Nickerson. . . 

Joseph Nickerson 

Thomas Nickerson 

George Opdyke 

Nathan Peck .? 


Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 


J.B.Pigot r 


Do, 


Paul Pohl, jr 


Do. 


Joseph Richardson 

Henry A. Bobbins 

Royal E. Robbins 

Harvey San ford 

J. H. Scranton 


Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 


E. Skinner & Co 

E. Skinner & Co., trus- 
tees. 
J.N.Smith..... 


Do. 

Do. 

Do. 


Thomas M. Stetson 

W. B. Stevens, trustee. . 
B. D. Stewart 


Do. 
Do. 
Do. 


Isaac Thatcher 


Do. 




Do. 


W illie Davis Train 

Ezekiel Trowbridge 

Henry Trowbridge 


Do. ' 
Do. • 
Do. 
Do. 


C. C. Waite 


Do. 


J. M. S. Williams -- 


Do. 



Dividend of E. G. Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard , attorney. 

Dividend of I. P. Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of E. Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of Elizabeth Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, 
attorney. 

Dividend of Elizabeth Hazard, trustee, was receipted for by E. G. 
Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of Mary P. Hazard, was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attor- 
ney. 

Dividend of Anna Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of Anna Horner was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of Lydia Torrey was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of Sophia Vernon was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

State op New York, 

City and County of New YorJc, ss : 
I, Nathaniel Gill, a commissioner for the State of Ehode Island in and 
for the city, county, and State of New York, duly commissioned and 
sworn, and dwelling in the city of New York, do hereby certify that I 
have this day carefully examined and compared the foregoing copy' of 
a certain instrument with the original instrument of which it purports 
to be a copy, and, after such examination and comparison, I hereby fur- 
ther certify that the foregoing is a true and correct copy of said 
original instrument and of the whole thereof, save only the signatures 
thereto subscribed. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



733 



In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my 
official seal at the city of ISew York, this 13th day of September, A. D. 
1870. 

[SEAL.] NATHANIEL GILL, 

Commissioner for Rhode Isla?id in New York. 

[5-eent internal-revenue stamp, canceled.] 



Received of Thomas 0. Durant, Oliver Ames, John Duff, Sidney Dillon, 
Cornelius S. Bnshnell, Henry S. MeCoinb, and Benjamin E. Bates, the 

. sums set opposite our respective names, in full of the allotment de- 
clared July 3, 1888, under and pursuant to the foregoing contract, and 
payable on the 3d day of July, 1868 ; and we do hereby severally, in 
consideration of the amount so received by us, consent to and approve 
of the foregoing contract, and agree severally to be bound by, and 
conform to all the terms and conditions of said agreement ; and we do 
hereby release the said Thomas C. Durant, Oliver Ames; and their 
associates, from all liability, personal or otherwise, by reasons of their 
acts as parties to said foregoing agreements, or either of them, and 
we agree to pay such rateable sums as said trustees may call for, not 
exceeding the amount so received, to enable them to complete the 
construction contract. 



Alley, John B 

Ames, Oakes 

Ames, Oakes, trustee 

Ames, Oliver 

Andrews, Frank W 

Atkins, Elisha 

Baker, Ezra H 

Baker, Ezra H., jr ... 

Bardwell, Josiah 

Bardwell, Josiab, trustee 

Barnes, Oliver W 

Bates, Benj. E 

Bates, Benj. E., trustee 

Beard, Eli 

Beard, Sylvester M 

Blood, Henry 

Boyer. B. M 

Bradford, Gamaliel 

Bristol, William B 

Bnshnell, C.S 

Chapman, Oliver S 

Charlick, Oliver . . .' 

Crane, H C 

Crane, H. C, trustee 

Crane, H. C, trustee W. D 
Train. 

Cummings, Wm. J 

Davies, John M 

Dillon, Sidney 

Dodge, Anna M 

Duff, John Kobinson 

Durant, Thos. C 

Fessenden, Sewell H 

Foster, Pierepont B 

French, L. Eugene 

Gilbert, Horatio 

Gilbert, Horatio J 

Gilmore, E. W 

Glidden, W. T 

Gray.G.G 

Gray, H. W 

Grimes, James W 

Hazard, R. G 

Hazard, Isaac P 

Hazard, R 

Hazard, Elizabeth 

Hazard, Elizabeth, trustee 



Parts. 


Dividend 
on bonds. 


290, 


, $21,750 


1, 955 


146, 625 


343 


25, 725 


4,680 


351, 000 


100 


7,500 


622 


46, 650 


623 


46, 725 


5(1 


3,750 


665 


49, 875 


300 


22, 500 


15 


1, 125 


500 


37, 500 


45 


3,375 


100 


7,500 


100 


7, 5C0 


4 


300 


75 


5,625 


100 


7,500 


50 


3,750 


510 


38, 250 


412 


30, 900 


3 


225 


128 


9,600 


180 


13, 500 


175 


13, 125 


100 


7, 500 


500 


37, 500 


1,005 


75, 375 


100 


7,500 


1,880 


141,000 


5,658 


424, 350 


50' 


3,750 


50 


3,750 


20 


1,500 


185 


13, 875 


137 


10, 275 


150 


11, 250 


625 


46, 875 


1,350 


101, 250 


50 


3,750 


380 


28, 500 


1,610 


120, 750 


380 


28, 5(0 


380 


28, 500 


34 


2,550 


13 


975 



Name. 



Hazard, Mary P 

Hazard, Anna 

Hedden, J 

Hobert, Aaron, jr 

Holiday, Benjamin 

Hooper, Samuel, & Co ... 

Horner, Ann 

Hough, Benj. K 

Hotchkiss, Henry 

Johnston, James B 

Jones, David 

King, John L 

Lorn bard, C. A 

Lockwood, Le Grand 

Low, A. A 

Macy, Wm. H 

McComb, H. S 

McCormick, Cyrus H 

McNeil, Robert G. S 

Moore, E. C 

ISTeilson, Charles H 

Nickerson, Frederick 

Nickerson, Joseph 

Nickerson, Thomas 

Opdyke, Geo 

Peck, Nathan 

Pigot, J.B 

Pohl, Paul, jr 

Richardson, Joseph 

Robbins, Henry A , 

Robbins, Robert E 

Sanford, Harvey 

Scranton, J. H 

Skinner, F. & Co 

Skinner, F. & Co., trustee 

Smith, J.N 

Stetson, Thomas N , 

Stevens, W. B 

Stewart, D. B , 

Thatcher, Isaac 

Torre y, Lydia 

Trowbridge, Ezekiel 

Trowbridge, Henry 

Vernon, Sophia 

Waite, C.C 

Williams, J. M. S 

Zebrowski, Martin 



Parts. 



10 

20 

100 

25 

750 

750 

1 

50 

150 

200 

380 

100 

725 

500 

100 

300 

,250 

945 

5 

10 

150 

250 

380 

100 

712 

100 

150 

6 

50 

100 

300 

125 

5 

250 

250 

405 

30 

50 

5 

92 

11 

50 

75 

1 

80 

620 

100 



Dividend 
on bonds. 



$750 

1,500 

7,500 

1,875 

56, 250 

56, 250 

75 

3,750 

11, 250 

15,000 

28,500 

7,500 

54, 375 

37, 500 

7,500 

22, 500 

93, 750 

70, 875 

375 

750 

11, 250 

18,750 

28,500 

7,500 

53, 400 

7,500 

11, 250 

450 

3,750 

7,500 

22, 500 

9,375 

375 

18,750 

18,750 

30, 375 

2,250 

3,7.50 

375 

6.900 

'825 

3,750 

5,625 

75 

6 000 

46,500 

7,500 



734 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



Dividend of B. G. Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of I. P. Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of E. Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of" Elizabeth Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, 
attorney. 

Dividend of Elizabeth Hazard, trustee, was receipted for by E. G. 
Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of Mary P, Hazard was receipted for by E. G,. Hazard,, 
attorney. 

Dividend of Anna Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of Ann a Horner was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney, 

Dividend of Ly dia Torrey was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of Sophia Vernon was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attor- 
ney. 

State oe New York, City and County of Netv York, ss : 

I, Nathaniel Gill, a commissioner for the State of Rhode Island, in 
the State of New York, duly commissioned and sworn, and dwelling in 
the city of New York, do hereby certify that I have this day carefully 
examined and compared the foregoing copy of a certain instrument, 
with the original instrument of which it purports to be a copy ; and after 
such examination and comparison, I further certify that the foregoing 
is a true and correct copy of said original instrument, and of the signa- 
tures thereto set and subscribed, and of the figures set opposite such 
signatures. 

In testimony whereof, I have hereunto s§t my hand and affixed my 
official seal, at the citv of New York, this 8th day of September, A. D. 
1870. _ • 

[SEAL.] NATHANIEL GILL, 

Commissioner for Rhode Island, in New York,. 
[U. S. revenue- stamp, 5 cents, canceled.] 



Eeceived of Thomas C. Durant, Oliver Ames, John Duff, Cornelius S. 
BushnelL, Henry S. McComb, and Benjamin E. Bates, the sums set 
opposite our respective names in full of the allotment declared July 8, 
1868, under and pursuant to the foregoing contract, and payable on 
the 8th day of July, 1868, and we do hereby severally, in considera- 
tion of the amounts so received by us, consent to and approve of the 
foregoing contracts, and agree severally to be bound by and conform 
to all the terms and conditions of said agreement, and we do hereby 
release the said Thomas 0. Durant, Oliver Ames, and their associates, 
from all liability, personal or otherwise, by reason of their acts as 
parties to said foregoing agreements or either of them. 



Parts. 


Dividend 
cash. 


290 


$8, 700 


1,955 


58, 650 


343 


10,290 


4,680 


140, 400 


100 


3, 000 


■ 022 


18, 660 


623 


. 18,690 


50 


1,500 


665 


19, 950 


300 


9,000 


15 


450 



Signatures. 



John B. Alley 

Oakes Ames 

Oakes Ames, trustee . . . 

Oliver Ames 

Frank W. Andrews 

Elisha Atkins 

Ezra H. Baker 

Ezra H. Baker, jr 

Josiah Bard well ... 

Josiah Bardwell, trustee 
Oliver W. Barnes 



John B. Alley : 
and others. 






CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



735 



Names. 


Parts. 


Dividend 
cash. 


Signatures. 


Benjn. E. Bates 


500 

45 

100 

100 

4 

75 

100 

50 

510 

412 

3 

128 

180 

175 

100 

500 

1,005 

100 

1,880 

5,658 

50 

50 

20 

185 

137 

150 

625 

1,350 

50 

380 

1, 610 

380 

380 

34 

13 

10 

20 

100 

25 

750 

750 

1 

50 

150 

200 

380 

100 

725 

500 

100 

300 

1,250 

945 

5 

10 

150 

250 

380 

100 

712 

100 

150 

6 

50 

100 

300 

125 

5 

250 

250 

405 

30 

50 

5 

92 

11 

50 

75 

1 

80 

620 

100 


$15, 000 

1,350 

3,000 

3,000 

120 

2,250 

3,000 

1, 500 

15, 300 

12, 360 

90 

3,840 

5,400 

5,250 

3,000 

15, 000 

30, 150 

3,000 

56, 400 

169, 740 

1,500 

1,500 

600 

5, 550 

4.110 

4,500 

7 518 

40, 500 

1,500 

11, 400 

48, 300 

11, 400 

. 11,400 

1,020 

390 

300 

600 

3,000 

750 

22, 500 

22, 500 

30 

1,500 

4,500 

6,000 

11, 400 

3,000 

21, 750 

15, 000 

3,000 

9,000 

37, 500 

28, 350 

150 

300 

4,500 

7,500 

11, 400 

3,000 

21, 360 

3,000 

4,500 

180 

1,500 

3,000 

9,000 

3,750 

150 

7,500 

7,500 

12, 150 

900 

1,500 

150 

2,760 

330 

1,500 

2,250 

30 

2,400 

18, 600 

3,000 




Eli Beard. . '. 












B. M. Boyer 








"Wm. B. Bristol 




C. S. Bushnell 












H. C. Crane 




















































E, W. Gilmore 




W. T. Glidden 




G. G. Gray 




H. W. Gi -ay I 












R. Hazard 
















Mary P. Hazard 




J. Hedden 
























Henry Hotchkiss 
























A. A. Low , 




Wm. H. Macy 




H. S. McCom'b 








Robert G. S. McXeil 








Charles H. Neilson 








Joseph Nickerson 








George Opdyke 








J. B. Pigot 




Paul Pohl, ir 




Joseph Richardson 








Royal E. Bobbins 
















F. Skinner & Co., trustees 




J. N. Smith 




Thomas M. Stetson 








D. B. Stewart 








Lyden Torrey 








Henry Trowbridge 








C. C. Waite 




J. M.S. Williams 




Martin Zebrowski 









736 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



State of New York, 

City and County of New Yorlc, ss : 

I, Nathaniel Gill, a commissioner for the State of Bhode Island in 
and for the city, county, and State of New York, duly commissioned 
and sworn, and dwelling in the city of New York, do hereby certify that 
I have this day carefully examined and compared the foregoing copy of 
a certain instrument, with the original instrument of which it purports 
to be a copy, and, after such examination and comparison, I hereby fur- 
ther certify that the foregoing is a true and correct copy of said original 
instrument and of the whole thereof save only the signatures thereto 
affixed. 

In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my 
official seal, at the city of New York, t^iis 13th day of September, A. D. 
1870. 

[SEAL.] NATHANIEL GILL, 

Commissioner for Rhode Island, in New York. 
[U. S. internal-revenue 5-cent stamp. Canceled.] 



Seceived of Thomas C. Durant, Oliver Ames, John Duff, Sidney Dillon', 
Cornelius S. Bushnell, Henry S. McOomb, and Benjamin E. Bates, the 
sums set opposite our respective names in full of the allotments de- 
clared December 29, 1868, under and pursuant to the foregoing con- 
tract, and payable the first day of January, 1869, and we do hereby 
severally, in consideration of the amount so received by us, consent to 
and approve of the foregoing contract and agree severally to be bound 
by and conform to all the terms and conditions of said agreement, 
and we do hereby release the said Thomas C. Durant, Oliver Ames, and 
their associates from all liability, personal or otherwise, by reason of 
their acts as parties to said foregoing agreement, or either of them. 



Xames. 




3 . 

P 


Signatures. 


John B. Alley 


290 
1,955 
343 
4,680 
100 
622 
623 

50 
665 
300 

15 
500 

45 

100 

100 

4 

75 
100 

50 
510 
412 
3 
128 
180 
175 
100 
500 
1,005 


580 

3,910 

686 

9,360 

200 

1,244 

1,246 

100 

1, 330 

600 

30 

1,000 

90 

200 

200 

8 

150 

200 

100 

1, 020 

824 

6 

256 

360 

350 

200 

1, 000 

2,010 


John B. Alley and others. 




















Ezra H. Baker 




















Benjamin E.Bates, trustee •_. 




Eli Beard 




















William B. Bristol 




C. S. Bush dell „ 












H. C. Crane 
















John M. Davis 




Sidney Dillon 





CREDIT M0B1LIEK AND UNION PACIFIC liAILROAD. 



737 



Carries. 



Anna M. Dodge 

John K. Duff 

Thomas C. Durant 

Sewell H. Fessenden 

Pierepoint B. Foster 

D. Eugene Freuch 

Horatio Gilbert 

Horatio J. Gilbert 

E. W. Gilmore 

William F. Glidden 

G.G.Grav 

H. "W.Gray 

James W. Grimes 

R G. Hazard 

R. Hazard 

Isaac T. Hazard 

Elizabeth Hazard 

Elizabeth Hazard, trustee 

Mary P. Hazard 

Anna Hazard 

J. Hedden 

Aaron Hobert. jr 

Eenjamin Holiday 

Samuel Hooper <fc Co 

Anna Horner 

Benjamin Jv. Hough 

Henry Hotchkisa 

James B. Johnston 

David Jones 

John L. King 

C. A. Lambard 

LeGrand Lockwood — 

A. A. Low 

William H. Macy 

H. S. McComb . .' 

0. H. McCormick 

Robert G. S. McNeil 

E. C. Moore 

Charles H. Neilson 

Frederick Nickersou 

Joseph Nickerson 

Thomas Nickersou 

George Opdyke 

Nathan Peek 

J. B. Pigot 

Paul Pohl, jr 

Joseph Richardson 

Henry A. Bobbins 

Boyal E. Bobbins 

Harvey Sanford 

J. H. Scranton 

F. Skinner & Co *. 

F. Skinner &: Co., trustees 

J.N.Smith 

Thomas M. Stetson' 

W. B. Stevens, trustee 

D. B. Stewart 

Isaac Thatcher 

Lydia Torrey 

Ezekiel Trowbridge 

Henry Trowbridge 

Sophia Vernon 

C. C. Waitc 

J. M. S. Williams + .. 

Martin Zbrowski 

Barton H. Jer.ks 



100 
880 
Cos 

50 

50 I 

20 

185 ! 

137 i 

150 ! 

625 I 

,350 j 

50 | 
380 
,610 
380 

380 I 

31 i 

13 ; 

10 i 

20 ; 
100 

25 

750 ! 

750 i 

1 | 

50 
150 
200 

380 : 

100 ! 

725 ! 

500 ! 

100 j 
300 

850 | 

945 i 

5 I 

10 

150 j 

250 i 

380 i 

100 | 

712 j 

100 i 

150 '■ 



P 



200 
3, 760 
11, 316 
100 ] 
100 I 
40 ! 
370 j 
274 
300 I 
1,250 i 
2,700 I 
100 
760 I 
3,220 | 
760 ! 
760 I 



26 
20 ] 
40 : 

200 ! 
50 

1,500 ; 

1,500 i 
2 ! 
100 i 
300 j 
400 
760 
200 

1,450 ! 

J, 000 j 
200 
600 ! 

1,700 j 

1,890 ! 
10 j 
20 
300 
500 i 



Signatures. 



John B. Alley and others. 



200 
424 I 
200 ! 
300 ! 




Dividend of R. G. Hazard was receipted for by R. G. Hazard, attorney. 
Dividend of I. P. Hazard was receipted for by R. G. Hazard, attorney. 
Dividend of R. Hazard was receipted for by R. G. Hazard, attorney. 
Dividend of Elizabeth Hazard was receipted for by R.G. Hazard, at- 
orney. 

-17 C >I 



738 



CREDIT -M.OBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



Dividend of Elizabeth Hazard, trustee, was receipted for by B. G . 
Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of Mary P. Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, at- 
torney. 

Dividend of Anna Hazard was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of Anna Horner was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of Lydia Torrey was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, attorney. 

Dividend of Sophia Vernon was receipted for by E. G. Hazard, at- 
torney. 

State of New York, City and County of New York, ss : 

I, Nathaniel Gill, a commissioner for the State of Ehode Island in 
and for the city, county, and State of New York, duly commissioned 
and sworn, and dwelling in the city of New York, do hereby certify that 
I have this day carefully examined and compared the foregoing copy of 
a certain instrument with the original instrument of which it purports 
to be a copy, and after such examination and comparison I hereby fur- 
ther certify that the foregoing is a true and correct copy of said original 
instrument and of the whole thereof, save only the signatures thereto 
affixed. 

In testimony, whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my 
official seal, at the city of New York, this 13th day of September, A. D. 
1870. 

[SEAL.] NATHANIEL GILL, 

Commissioner for Rhode Island, in New York. 

[U. S. internal-revenue 5-cent stamp. Canceled.] 



Treasury Department, 
Washington, D. C, January 21, 1873. 
Sir : In compliance with request contained in your letter of the 18th 
instant, I submit schedule embracing replies to your first, second, and 
third inquiries, and would respectfully refer you to the Secretary of the 
Interior for answers to the fourth and fifth, as the original papers are 
filed in that Department. 





January 24, 1866 .. 

May 1,1866 

June 25, 1866 

July 12, 1866 

August 8, 1866 

September 11, 1866 
October 12, 1866... 
November 6,-1866 . 
January 2, 1867 . . . 

June 10, 1867 

July 5, 1867 

August 27, 1867... 
October 1,1867.... 
November 4, 1867 . 
December 11, 1867. 

January 25, 1868 .. 

May 15, 1868 

May 16, 1868 

June 12. 1868...... 




Amount. 



January 27, 1866 1 $640, 000 

May 7, I860 I 400, 000 

June 26, 1866 640, 000 

July 13,1866 320,000 

August 9, 1866 560, 000 

September 11, 1806 j 720, 000 

October 13, 1866 ; 560, 000 

November 7, f866 j 480, 000 

January 8, 1867 ! . 560,000 

June 10, 1867 1 640, 000 

July 6, 1867 640, 000 

August 29, 1867 560, 000 

October 2, 1867 I 560, 000 

November 5, 1867 J I 560, 000 

December 13, 1867 320, 000 

I January 27, 1868 : j 957, 000 

May 16, 1868 960, 000 

May 18,1868 | %0, 000 

June 12, 1868 1. 960, 000 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



739 



When accepted. 



June 16, 1868 

July 21, 1868 

July 23, 1863 

July 23, 1668 

Augusts, 1868 

August 27, 1868 . . . 
September 5, 1868 . 
September 5, 1868 . 
September 22, 1868 
October 21, 1868 . . . 
November 19, 1868. 
December 5, 1868.. 
December 12, 1868. 
December 16, 1668. 
December 23, 1868. 
December 23, 1868. 
January 28, 1869... 

February 9, 1869 . . 

July 15, 1869 

July 15, 1869 

July 15, 1859 



Total. 



20 

20 

35. 078 
4.922 
20 
20 
20 
20 
20 
20 
20 
40 
20 
20 
20 
20 
20 

40 

20 
13. 68 



1, 038. 68 



Date of issue of bonds. 



Amount. 



June 13, 1S66 

July 22, 1868 

I July 24, 1868 

August 11, 1863.... 
August 28, 1868 .... 
September 7, 1868 . 
September 7, 1868 . 
September 23, 1863 
October 21, 1868 . . . 
November 19, 1863. 
December 7, 1868.. 
December 14, 1868. 
December 16, 1863. 
December 23, 1863. 
December 24, 1863. 
January 29, 1869 . . 

February 10, 1869 . . 



July 16, 1869 

November 6, 1869 

July 14,1870 

Fractional amounts for various sec- 
tions withheld and issued on final 
settlement 



$960, 000 
960, 000 

1,841,000 

640, 000 
640, 000 
640, 000 
640, 000 
640, 000 
640, 000 
640, 000 
1, 280, 000 
640, 000 
640, 000 
640, 000 
640, 000 
640, 000 

1,280,000 

640, 000 
437, 000 
160, 000 



1,515 



27, 236, 512 



Terv respectfully, 

GEO. S. BOUTWELL, 

/Secretary. 
Hon. J. M. Wilson, 

Chairman Select Committee on Credit MoMUer, &c, 

Rome of Representatives. 



Department of the Interior, 

Washington, D. (7., January 16, 1873. 

Sir : In answer to your oral inquiries of this morning', in relation to 
the Union Pacific Kailroad Company, I have the. honor to state that 
there have been patented to said company 654,419 acres of land ; that 
of lands that under their grant will inure to them, as yet unpatented, 
there are about 11,345,580 acres. This is, of course, only an approxi- 
mate estimate. Of these unpatented lands, a large portion is yet unsur- 
veyed. The patents for tracts surveyed and selected have been with- 
held, in order that the Department may first be satisfied in reference to 
certain matters connected with the construction, management, and 
eastern terminus of the road. 

The first 100 miles were definitely located 19th October, 1864 ; the 
second 100 miles, 20th June, 1866 ; from 200th to 380th mile-post, 23d 
November, 1866 ; from 380th mile-post to near the 700th, from 1st April 
to 15th November, 1867 ; from near 700th to Ogden, (termination,) from 
1st May to 3d July, 1868. 

The map showing the general route from a point 100 miles west of 
Omaha to Salt Lake City was filed 28th June, 1865, and seems to have 
been the first map filed. 

Diligent search has failed to find estimates of engineers, either before 
or since the construction of the road, as to its cost. The law did not 
require such estimates to be transmitted to the Department, and they 
can probably be found only on the files of the company. 



740 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Only two reports of engineers appear to have been submitted with 
the annual reports to the Department, viz, for 1868 and 1869. That 
for 1869 has been printed, and a copy is herewith transmitted. That 
of 1868 is of similar scope, bat is so voluminous that I have deemed it 
best not to impose the labor of copying it on our limited clerical force 
until I should be specifically informed that it is desired. 

A copy of the late report of the Government directors to the Depart- 
ment, and a list of such directors and their terms of office, are herewith 
transmitted. I also transmit some printed papers relating to the road 
that may be of interest to you. 

Yerv respectfully, vour obedient servant. 

JB. JR. OO.WEH, 

Acting Secretary. 
Hon. J. M. Wilson, 

Chairman of Credit Mobilier Committee of Investigation. 

Ro use of Rep re sen ta tires. 



Detailed statement of the date of original issues of stock by the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company, amount of each issue, and to whom issued. 

1863. 
Dec. 22. For first installment of 10 per cent, on the 
entire subscription of the company to this 
date, as per following list : 

Ain't paid 

Shares, into treas. 
of Co. 

Andrews, S 20 12,000 

Ahem, S.J 20 2,000 

Ashley.O.D 20 2,000 

Blood.H 20 2.000 

Basford, H.W 20 2,000 

Belmont, Aug 10 1,000 

Bushnell.C.S .' 50 5,000 

Brodhead, E. C 20 2.000 

Bonner. G.T.,& Co 20 2,000 

Butler, E 10 1,000 

Bartholomew, Geo. M 10 1,000 

Boody,H.H 20 2,000 

Barnev,D.X 20 2,000 

Blatctiford.R.M.. 20 2,000 

Butterfield, John 10 1,000 

Blair, John 1 20 2,000 

Cass,G.W 20 2,000 

Clark, Edward 20 2,000 

Clark, Dodge & Co 20 2,000 

Cook,E 50 5,000 

Curtis,N.B 20 2,000 

Cisco, John J 20 2,000 

Ohenv.A. N *20 2,000 

Crane,J.S 5 500 

Crane,H.C 50 5,000 

Cooper & Hewett 20 2,000 

Chittenden, S. B 10 1,000 

Corning, Erastus 20 2,000 

Campbell, Allen 5 500 

Carver,B.F 10 1,000 

Dix,JohnA. - 20 2.000 

Duncan, Sherman &. Co 20 . 2, 000 

Dehon . Clark & Bridges 20 2, 000 

Dunham, E. \V 20 2,000 

Davis, G.T.M 50 5,000 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 741 

Dunham, James L 

Durant, W.F 

Durant, Thomas C 

Dows, D 

Durant, W. W 

Dodge, Wni. E 

De Rouge & D vett 

Gibsou^E. T. II 

Grinnell, M. II 

Gibsou, C. D 

Gray, S.'M 

Greswold, Geo 

Gould , Charles 

Gardner, Ransom 

Hartson, G. B 

Harriman & Jerome 

Hodges, G. W 

Henry, J. E 

Husford,O.T 

Haven, F 

Holliday, Benj 

Jerome, A. G 

Jerome, L. W 

Jones, David 

Kowalski , C 

Ketchum, Morris 

Kountze, Augustus 

Lambard, H."j 

Low, A. A 

Lambard, Chas. A 

McComb, H.S 

Merriam & Bell 

McAndrews & Wann 

Maxwell, John D 

McPherson, William-M 

McCormiek, John 

Megrath, James G 

Nye,E* 

Ogden, A\ m. B 

Opdyke, Geo : 

Pratt, G.W 

Price. J. M 

Pruyne, J. V. L 

Poor, Henry V 

Pomeroy, S. C 

Quintard, G. M 

Rosekrans, E. H 

Ramsford, G. S 

Richards, L. S 

Richards, T.P 

Richmond, Dean 

Russell, C.H 

Rickley, John 

Roberts, M. O 

Scott, Thomas A 

Scranton, J. II 

Stebbins, H. J., & Sons 

Smith, Samuel B 

Smith, Piatt 

Sloan, Sam'l 

Smith, Francis 

Smith, Geo, R 

Sweesy, William J 

Tuttle, Charles 

Thomson , J. E 

Tuttle, J. T 

Train, Geo. F 

Tracy, J. T 

Truis, W. R 

Train, Willie D 



20 


$2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


50 


5, 000 


10 


1,000 


20 


2,000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2,000 


50 


5, 000 


10 


1,000 


10 


1,000 


10 


1,000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


5 


500 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


50 


5, 000 


1 


100 


10 


1,000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2,000 


20 


2,000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


5 


500 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


10 


1,000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


10 


1,000 


rr 


500 


1 


100 


1 


100 


10 


1,000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2,000 


20 


2,000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2,000 


10 


1,000 


5 


500 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


10 


1,000 


20 


2,000 


20 


2,000 


20 


2,000 


20 


2, 000 


1 


100 


20 


2,000 


20 


2, 000 


50 


5, 000 


20 


2,000 


20 


2, 000 


5 


500 


5 


500 


1 


100 


1 


100 


1 


100 


20 


2, 000 


30 


?>, 000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2, 000 


2(1 


2, 000 



742 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



10 


(1, 000 


20 


2, 000 


10 


1, 000 


20 


2,000 


20 


2,000 


5 


500 


20 


2, 000 


20 


2,000 


20 


2,000 


5 


500 


10 


1,000 


20 


2,000 


10 


1,000 


20 


2, 000 


o 


500 


5 


500 


20 


2,000 



Tilden, William 

Thayer, Nathaniel 

. Tiffany&Co 

Tilden, S.J 

Taylor, Moses 

Thomson, G. A 

Van Schaick & Massett 

Winslow, Lanier & Co 

Wright, J. B 

Williams & Guion 

Watkinson, Robert 

Williams, John M. S 

Weed, Tkurlow 

Williams,N. S 

Wiuston, F. S 

Young, Brigham „ 

*McCready, F. H 

2, 177 
1864. 
Sept. 26. By cash : Second installment on following sub- 
scription : 

Wm. B. Ogden 500 

*R, Watkinson 1,000 

Williams & Guion 500 

Aug. Belmont 1,000 

J. Butterfield 1,000 

E. H. Eosekrans 2, 000 

E. Cook 2,000 

Sept. 26. By cash : First installment 10 per cent. 

S. Seymour 3,000 

Clark Bell 3,000 

Sept. 27. By cask : Second installment 10 per cent. 

G.F.M. Davis 3,000 

Oct. 1. By cash : 10 per cent, on following new subscrip- 
tion : 

C. S. Bushnell 1 10,000 

J. C. Kennedy - 1,000 

Alex. Hayes 2, 000 

Oct. 1. By cash: Second installment of 10 per cent. 

J.F.Tracy : 1,000 

J. C. Kennedy 1,000 

C. S. Bushnell 5, 000 

Alex. Hayes 2,000 

Oct. 3. By cash : 2d installment. 10 per cent. 

T. C. Durant ' •....: 5.000 

W. W.Durant 2,000 

A. Kountze 500 

T.G.Megrath 100 

W. J. Swasev 100 

J.Rickley.. 100 

O. P. Hasford 100 

J. McCormick 100 

J. E. Henry 2,000 

Oct. 28. By cash : 1st installment, 10 per cent. 

H. C. Crane, agent , 25,000 

H.M.Hoxie 25,000 



$217, 700 



8,000 



6,000 



000 



13. 000 



9, 000 



Made iu accordance with provision in Hoxie con- 
tract. 
Nov. 15. By cash : 2d installment 5 per cent. 

Robert Watkinson 



10,000 



50, 000 



500 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



743 



Nov. 15. By cash : 2d installment, 5 per cent., paid on the 
following subscriptions. 

SJiaret 
E. C. Broadbead . 


H. W. Bashford 


20 


D. Dows 


10 


N. B. Curtis 

H. Blood 


, 20 

15 


M. H. Grinnell . 


10 


T. Haven ... 


10 


Tburlow Weed 


10 




5 


Clark Bell 


30 


J. M. Price 


20 


G. M. Quintard 


20 


J. T. Tuttle 


20 


M. Van Schauch 


20 




20 


G. M. Gray 


10 




, 40 


A. N. Cheeny 


20 






W. W. Durant 


20 


H. C. Crane, agent 

Pickering Clark 


250 

10 


C. S. Busbnell 


20 

100 


G. T. Bonner 


20 


J.E.Henry .. ... ... 


10 


E.Cook 


10 


McAndrews &, Mann 


1 20 






Ed. Clark 


20 


E. Butler 


10 


B. F. Carra 


10 


T. H. McGready 


20 


W. F. Durant 


20 




20 


J. D. Maxwell 


10 


N. S. Williams 


20 


T. P. Richards 


20 


G. B. Hartson 


20 


DeShon Clark and B 


10 




10 


Harriinan &. Jerome 


20 


Samuel B. Smith 


20 


E. H. Rosekrans 


20 


H. M. Hoxie 


250 


L.C.Clark 


10 


T. C. Durant . ... 


165 


H. M. Hoxie 


30 







1,525 



$76,250 



1864. 
Dec. 27. By cash : Being 95 per cent, balance due on subscription to cap- 
ital stock of tbis company by Buigham Young, for live sbares 

of $1,000 eacb, making it full-paid stock 4, 500 

1865. 

Jan. 20. By cash : E. Cook, 15 per cent 1, 500 

Jan. 20. By cash : John E. Henry, 15 percent 'l, 500 

May 17. By cash : R. Watkinson, 5 per cent, on 10 shares 500 

Nov. 8. By cash : R. Watkinson, being 5 per cent, on 100 shares stock 

held by him 500 

1866. 
Feb. 17. By cash : O. P. Hiuford, 5 per cent 50 



744 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD 

Mar. 8. By cash. : Received from Credit Mobilier of America for 
account of installment on the following subscriptions to cap- 
ital stock of this company, making the said stock 20 per 
cent. paid. 

Shars.Pr.CL 

T. C. Durant 20 10 

Do 20 10 

Do 10 10 

W.D.Train 20 10 

G.F. Train , 20 10 

JohnA.Dis 20 10 

ClarkBell 20 10 

J.J.Cisco 20 10 

J.F.Tracy ,....„.... 20 10 

H.V.Poor 10 10 

C. A. Lamhard - 5 10 

Milo J. Burke 15 10 

J. M. S. Williams 20 10 

Charles Turtle 20 10 

J. H. Scranton 50 10 

E. C. Brodhead 20 5 

H. W. Bashford 20 5 

D. Dows , 10 5 

N.B.Curtis 20 5 

H. Blood 15 5 

M.H.Grinnell 10 5 

F. Haven 10 5 

Thurlow Weed 10 5 

Rawson Gardner 5 5 

ClarkBell 30 5 

G. T. Bonner, & Co 20 5 

J.E.Henrv 10 5 

E.Cook. ....... 10 5 

McAndrews &. Wann 20 5 

S.J.Ahern 20 5 

E.Clark ,.... 20 5 

E.Butler 10 5 

B.F.Carver 10 5 

F. H. McCreadv 20 5 

W. T. Durant." 20 5 

J.M.Price „ 20 5 

S.Andrews 20 5 

G. M. Quintard 20 5 

J.D.Maxwell 10 5 

J.F.Tuttle 20 5 

N.S.Williams 20 5 

Van Schauch & Massett 20 5 

T.P.Richards 20 5 

Merriam & Bell 20 5 

G. T. Hartshorn 20 5 

G.M.Gray 10 5 

Dehon Clark & B 10 5 

H.C.Crane 40 5 

Clark, Dodge & Co 10 5 

A.W.Cheney 20 5 

J. Harriman 20 5 

G.W.Pratt 20 5 

Samuel B. Smith 20 5 

T.C.Durant 50 5 

L. C. Clark 10 5 

Pickering Clark 10 5 

T.C.Durant 115 5 

J. G. Butler, trus 20 5 

H.M.Hoxie 30 5 

C.S.Bushuell 100 5. 

Sidney Dillon 25 5 

O. S. Chapman 25 5 

W.T. Gliddden 50 5 

JohnDuff 50 5 

Oliver Ames 50 5 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC PAILROAD. 



745 



Slidres.Pr.Ct. 

J. M. S. Williams 50 5 

Frederick Nickersou 25 5 

R.G.Hazard 25 5 

C. A. Lambard 50 5 

H. M.Hoxio.. 150 5 



1 , 775 



|102, 250 



16(36. 
Mar. 24. By cash: For received from Credit Mobilier of America, for ac- 
count of installments on the following subscription to capital 
stock of this company, making the same 30 per cent, x^aid : 

Shares: Per cent 

Sidney Dillon 25 10 

O. S. Chapman 25 10 

W. T. Glidden 50 10 

John Duff 50 10 

O.Ames 50 10 

J. M. S. Williams 50 10 

Fred'k Nickerson 25 10 

R.G.Hazard 25 10 

C. A. Lambard 50 10 

CM. of A 875 10 

H.W.Gray 5 20 

Griswold 20 20 

June 22. By cash: H. C. Crane, assistant treasurer, being 30 percent, on 
new subscription for 5,000 shares of $100 each to capital stock 
of this company 

July 1. By cash : For received from H. C. Crane, assistant treasurer, in- 
stallments to capital stock as follows : 

Shares. 

N.B. Curtis 200 

T. Weed 100 

F. Haven 100 

Rosekrans 200 

R. Gardner 50 

AV.H. Grinnell 100 

P.Clark., 100 

G. T.M.Davis 100 

C. A. Lambard ; 200 

J.F.Tracy 200 

J.J.Cisco 200 

J. A. Dix 200 

J- JE. Henry 200 

E. Cook.. J 100 

C. Turtle 200 

T. C.Durant 100 

C.M.A 5,100 



Aug, 18. 



7,450 

Shares. Per cent. 

Geo. Opdyke 200 at 20 

*H. S. McComb 200 at 20 

C. H. McCormick 50 at 20 

B. Holladay 200 at 20 

650 
050 shares at 20 per cent. 
7, 450 shares at 10 per cent 

By cash — scrip, account: For amount of scrip received from 
the following-named parties, in payment of 70 per cent, on 
number of shares standing in their uames, same having been 
transferred to them by Credit Mobilier of America, being 30 
per cent, stock, making their stock full paid : 



127, 500 



150, 000 



87, 500 



746 CREDIT M0BIL1ER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



Shares. 

Oliver Ames. March 29 1, 563 

Oakes Ames, March 39 . . .: 449 

James W. Grimes, March 29 125 

Paul Pohl, jr., April 4 3 

J. M. S. Williams, April 4 313 

W. T. Glidden, April 4 312 

John Duff, April 4 625 

Elisha Atkins, April 5 156 

Win. H. Macy, April 5 125 

R. G. Hazard, April 6 500 

I. P. Hazard, April 6 125 

C. A. Lambard, April 6 625 

S. Hooper & Co., April 10 250 

F. Nickerson, April 10 125 

G. G. Gray, April 11 633 

Ezra H. Baker, April 12 156 

Thomas Nickerson, April 12 50 

E. Reed Meyer, April 12 10 

J. B. Alley. April 13 250 

W. D. Forbes, April 13 50 

O. S. Chapman, April 13 156 

S. Dillon, April 13 313 

H. S. McComb, April 19 250 

George Opd vke, April 27 231 

O. W. Barnes, April 30 20 

H. W. Gray, May 9 13 

C. H. McCormick, May 14 313 

L.E.French. June 10 10 

H.J. Gilbert^ June 15 .• 44 

Horatio Gilbert, June 19 63 

Oliver Ames, July 26 1, 563 

Oakes Ames & E. W. Gilmore, July 28 450 

John Duff, July 26 625 

J. M. S. Williams, July 28 312 

W. T. Glidden, July 26...... 313 

H. W. Gray, July 26 , 12 

G. G. Gray, July 28 634 

W. D. Forbes, July 26 50 

J. B. Alley, July 26 250 

Sidney Dillon, July 26 312 

H. S. McComb, July 26 250 



Sept. 21. By cash : Amount paid in by John A. Dix, for fifty shares, ot 
$100 each, subscribed for him this day, making the same full 
paid 

Sept. 24. By cash : For amount of scrip received from the following-' 
named parties in payment of 70 per cent, on number of shares 
standing iu their names, same having been transferred to 
them by Credit Mobilier of America, being 30 per cent, 
stock, thus making their stock full paid : 

I. P. Hazard, August 3 250 $17, 500 

R. G. Hazard, August 3 1.250 87,500 

Charles M. Hall, August 10 15 1, 050 

O. S. Chapman, August 28 156 10,920 

J. Bardwell, August 30 250 17,500 

B. E. Bates, September 18 600 42, 000 

James W. Grimes. September 19 125 8,750 

S. Hooper & Co., September 19 250 17, 500 

Horatio Gilbert, September 19 63 4, 410 

Horatio J. Gilbert, September 19 ... . 44 3, 080 

F. Nickerson, September 19 125 8, 750 

Ezra H. Baker, September 20 156 10, 920 

C. S. Bushnell, September 22 < 750 52, 500 

Beniainiu Holladay, September 22.. . 500 35, 000 

Elisbia Atkins, September 22 156 52, 500 

Paul Pohl, jr., September 22 3 210 

Joseph Nickerson. September 22 125 8, 750 



| 901, 530 



5, 000 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 747 



H. S. McComb, September 22 

C. A. Lambard, September 22 

Thomas Niekerson, September 19»... 



50 


$3, 500 


625 


43, 750 


50 


3, 500 



Sept, 


. 22. 


Sept. 


22. 


Sept. 


,27. 


Oct. 


23. 


Dec. 


31. 


Dec. 


31. 


Dec. 


31. 


Dec. 


31. 



$388, 010 



By cash : Received from Credit Mobilier of America an install- 
ment of 30 per cent, on subscription to capital stock of 2,000 
shares subscribed for by them 2 1 st instant 60, 000 

By'scrip : For amount of scrip received from Thomas C. Du- 
rant, being for an installment of 25 per cent, on his subscrip- 
tion for 12,000 of the stock of the company, 21st 300, 000 

By cash : For amount paid by Charles Tuttle, on 22d instant, 
being payment in full on his subscription for twenty shares 
of the capital stock of this company . . 2, 000 

By cash : For amount of installment of 5 per cent, on capital 

stock of his subscription 500 

By cash : For subscription, tbis day, to capital stock by the 
Credit Mobilier of America, for 19,192 shares, of $100 each, 
30 per cent, paid 575, 760 

By cash : For 5 per cent, installment received from Credit Mo- 
bilier of America on subscription of 12,000 shares made by 
T. C. D u rant, on which 25 per cent, was paid, this install- 
ment making same 30 per cent, stock 60, 000 

By cash, for 30 per cent, installment on new subscription of 
Credit Mobilier of America for 19,200 shares, on which they 
paid upon 19,192 shares, leaving 8 shares now received ...... 240 

By scrip : For 70 per cent, on 24,494 shares capital stock paid iu 
this day : 

Sharex. 

John Duff 1, 250 

S.Dillon 625 

J.M. S. Williams 620 

Oliver Ames 3, 125 

B. E. Bates 600 

John B. Alley 500 ■ 

W.D.Forbes •- 100 

H.Gilbert 125 

C. H. McCormiek 625 

Elisha Atkins 312 

H. S. McComb 550 

P.Pohl,jr 6 

Thos. Niekerson 100 

B. D.Stuart 5 

R. Hazard 250 

G. F. Train, 125 

Williams & -Guion 250 

C. S. Bushnell 700 

J. H. Scran ton ' 5 

David Jones 250 

C. C.Waite 50 

Geo. Opdyke 350 

T. C. Duraut 5, 808 

G.G.Gray 1,267 

G. F. Train 125 

C. A. Lambard 1,250 

W. T. Glidden 625 

0. S. Chapman 312 

J. Niekerson 250 

F. Niekerson 250 

1. P. Hazard 250 

S. Hooper & Co 500 

11. J. Gilbert 87 

Oakes Ames 800 

E. H. Baker 313 

J. L. King ^. 50 

J. W. Grimes 250 

J. Bardwell 250 

E. W. Gilmore 100 

O.W.Barnes • 10 

L. E. French 20 



(AS CREDIT MOBILISE VXD UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Shares. 

H. W. Grav 25 

W. H. Macy : 250 

Benj. Halladay ._ . 500 

E. Reed Meyer 20 

H.C.Crane 30 

T. C. Durant 260 

D.Jones 250 

Geo. Opdvke 119 

$1,714,580 

24, 494 

I860. 
Dec. 31. To scrip: For 70 per cent, on 313 shares stock belonging to 
C. H. MeCormick, paid in by him this day. making- said 

stock full paid ' 21, 910 

Dec. 31. By scrip : For 70 per cent, on 6,000 shares stock belonging to 
T. C. Durant, paid in by him this dav. making said stock full 

paid . .. 420,000 

1667. 
Feb. 27. By scrip : For 70 per cent, paid iu by Elisha Atkins on 50 

shares . 3, 500 

Mar. 25. By scrip : For scrip received from R. G. Hazard, March 9, on 

account, 250 shares 17, 500 

April 29. By scrip: Scrip received from Credit Mobilier of America to 
make the following stock 30 per cent paid : 
One thousand four hundred shares Credit Mobilier 

of America, 10 per cent., paid 20 per cent §28, 000 

Less overpayment as follows : 

E. H. Rosekrans, 200 shares, 5 1, 000 

Credit Mobilier of America, 200 shares, 5 1, 000 

Credit Mobilier of America, 250 shares, 10 2, 50 

4,500 

23, 500 
Oct. 10. By scrip : For amount scrip surrendered by John E. 
Henry, being 15 per cent, on 100 shares standing in his 

name, making same 30 per cent, stock I, 5C0 

Oct. 28. By scrip : Amount received from S. B. Chittenden, 
being 20 per cent, on 10 shares, making same 30 per- 
cent?....: : : 2,000 

Oct. 31. By scrip: For amount received from Morris Ketcham, 
being 20 per cent, on subscription of 20 shares, making 

same 30 per cent, paid 4, 000 

Nov. 1. By sundries: 

By scrip ■.__. $1,970 

Credit Mobilier of America, for amount paid in 13,530 
this day following subscriptions: 

V. W. Shipmen. 20 shares, 20 per cent 4, 000 

D. W. Barnes, 20 shares, 20 per cent 4, 000 

C. R. Shelden, 15 shares, 20 per cent . . . , 3, 000 

W. B. Ogden, 5 shares, 10 per cent 500 

O. D. Ashley, 20 sheres, 20 per cent 4, 000 

Making same 30 per cent; 

15,500 

Nov. 7. By Credit Mobilier of America, for amount paid this day 
on account following stock: 

E. V. W. Shipraan, 10 shares, 20 per cent ......... 2, 000 

A. Campbell, 5 shares, 20 per cent ft. 1, 000 

Making same 30 per cent. paid. 

1 3,000 

Nov. 20. By cash : Capital stock, R. Nally A > 000 

Dec. 14. By cash: Capital stock, sundries : 

Francis Smith , ~00 

Samuel Sloan , 1,000 

Cornel i us Mead 4 , 000 

5.200 

Djc. 1~. By cash : Cash to sundries ; capital stock on account : 

James Barthish, 20 shares, 20 per cent 4, 00O 

J. F. Chamberlan, 30 shares, 20 per cent 6, 000 

G. W. ( !ass, 5 shares. 20 per cent. 1 , 000 



833, 000 
4,000 



17, 000 
4, 000 



10, 000 
1, 500 

2, 296, 000 
1,111,670 

4,500 9 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD, 749 

J. F. Lamo, 5 shares, 20 per cent f 1, 00O 

J. E. Thompson, 5 shares, 20 per cent 1, 000 

J. Ulrich, 65 shares, 20 per cent 13, 000 

Silas Seymour, 30 shares, 20 per cent 6, 000 

G. A. Thompson, 5 shares, 20 per cent 1, 000 

Dec. 18. By cash : Cash to sundries ; capital stock on account 

Dec. 20. Bv cash : Capital stock : 

Tiffany & Co, 10 shares, 20 per cent 2, 000 

A. G. Butler, 10 shares. 20 per cent 2, 000 

W. E. Dodge, 20 shares, 20 per cent 4, 000 

D. A. Carringtou, 20 shares, 20 per cent 4, 000 

G. W. Hodges, 20 shares, 20 per cent 4, 000 

F. S. Winston, 5 shares, 20 per cent - . 1, 000 

Dec. 24. By cash: Clark Bell, 20 shares, 10 per cent 2,000 

' Clark Bell , 10 shares, 20 per cent 2, 000 

Dee. 27. By cash : Alex. Hay, 20 shares, 10 per cent 2, 000 

"A. G. Jerome, 20 shares, 20 per cent 4, 000 

W. Tilden, 10 shares, 20 per cent 2, 000 

Henry Blood, 5 shares, 20 per cent 1, 000 

James C. Kennedy, 10 shares, 10 per cent 1, 000 

Dec. 28. By cash : Capital stock — E. Cook, J. E. Henry, 100 shares 15 

per cent 

1868. 

Jan. 4. By cash : Capital stock — Contractors, 22, 960 shares 

Credit Mobilier of America, 15. 881 shares, at 70 per cent 

R. E. Gordon, 5 shares, at 90 per cent 

1868. 
Jan. 31 . By cash to capital stock : 

T. C. Durant $8,000 

J. G. Megrath 800 

Feb. 27. By cash to capital stock: 

August Belmont, 80 per cent, on 10 shares 8, 000 

L. W. Jerome, 90 per cent, on 20 shares 18, 000 

W. 11. Travers, 90 per cent, on 20 shares 18, 000 

G. E. Smith, 90 per cent, on 1 share 900 

John Kickley, 80 per cent, on 1 share 800 

April 7. By cash to capital stock : 

S. C. Pomeroy, 90 per cent, on 5 shares 4, 500 

O. P. Hurford, 75 per cent, on 1 share 750 

A . Kountze, 80 per cent, on 3 shares 2, 400 

June 17. By cash to capital stock : 

Benjamin E. Bates, treasurer. . 1, 500, 000 

July 3. By cash to capital stock : 

Contractors, 25,000 shares * 2, 500, 000 

July 9. By cash : 

B. E. Bates, trustee for contractors 300, 000 

J. J. Crane 4. 500 

Sept. 1(5. By cash : 

John Buttertield 8, 000 

Ransom Gardner 3, 500 

Moses H. Grin nell 7, 000 

18, 500 

Dec. 30. By cash : 

H. C. Crane, assistant treasurer, 75,000 shares 7, 500, 000 

1869. 
Feb. 17. By cash: 

H. C. Crane, assistant treasurer, subscription, 40,000 

shares 4,000,000 

Oct. 26. By cash : 

B. E. Bates, treasurer of trustees, subscription, 10,00(1 
shares 1 . 000, 000 



8, 800 



45, 700 



7, 650 



750 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Nov. 3. By cash : 

John A. Rice, assistant treasurer of trustees, subscrip- 
tion, 10,000 shares $1,000,000 

Nov. 26. By cash : 

B. E. Bates, treasurer of trustees, subscription, 10,000 

shares 1,000,000 

Dec. 18. By cash : 

B. E. Bates, treasurer of trustees, subscription, 10,000 

shares i 000, 000 

1870. 
Jan. 11. By cash: 

B. E. Bates, treasurer of trustees, subscription, 10,000 

shares 1,000,000 

Jan. 25. By cash : 

B. E. Bates, treasurer of trustees, subscription, 10,000 

shares 1,000,000 

Feb. 11. By cash : 

B. E. Bates, treasurer of trustees, subscription, 20,000 

shares 2, 000, 000 

Feb. 18. By cash : 

B. E. Bates, treasurer of trustees, subscription, 10,000 

shares 1 , 000, 000 

July 29. By cash : 

B. E. Bates, treasurer of trustees, subscription, 30,000 

shares 3, 000, 000 

*1864. 
Nov. 1L Capital stock debtor to cash : 

For amount paid Robert "Watkinson, being 10 

per cent, on his subscription paid by him in 

f error on second installment, new call, made 

for 5 per cent., and paid by him $1, 000 

*1866. 
July 30. Capital stock debtor to cash : 

For repaid 10 per cent, installment on stock, 20 
shares, in name of H. S. McComb, being 

amount overpaid 18th instant % 000 

3, 000 

Total $36,762,300 

INCOME-BONDS AND STOCK. 

Cash to sundries . $1, 527, 200 

For income-bonds and stock sold following stockholders : 

Bonds. Stock. 

P.Adams Ames 7,000 14,000 

B. K. Hough 4,000 8,000 

J. Bardwell 4,000 8,000 

E.G. Hazard 50,000 10,000 

Henry Sauford 52, 000 24, 000 

P. B.Foster 8,000 16,000 

G. G. Gray 13,000 26,000 

H.H. Macy 7,000 14,000 

C. S. Bushnell 14,000 24,000 

B.H. Jenks 40,000 80,000 

C. S. Bushnell 25,000 50,000 

G. G. Gray 9,000 18,000 

R.G. Hazard 125,000 250,000 

Jas.Phelps 2,000 4,000 

T.C. Durant 210,000 420,000 

C. S. Bushnell 50,000 100,000 

E. C. Moore 1,000 2,000 

Chas. Tattle 6, 000 12, 000 

J.J.Cisco. 5,000 10,000 

B.F.Ham 2,000 4,000 

D.N. Smith 25,000 50,000 

H.H.Macv 20,000 40,000 

T.C. Durant 50,000 100,000 

B.H. Jenks 2,000 4,000 

C. S. Bushnell 26,000 52,000 

G.G. Gray 50,000 100,000 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 



751 



Bonds. Stock. 

T.C. Durant. 35,000 70,000 

T.C. Durant 150,000 300,000 

H. C. Crane, trustee 24,000 48,000 

H. C.Crane, W. D. Train 26,000 52,000 

J.F.Tracy 5,000 10,000 

W. P. Durant 13,000 26,000 

A. Hobartjr 1,000 2,000 

Glidden & Williams 3S,000 76,000 

T. C. Durant 50,000 100,000 

J.Hedden 17,000 34,000 

E. Reed Meyer .■ 4,000 8,000 

Geo. Opdyke 17,000 34,000 

F. Nickerson 3,000 6,000 

J. Bardwell 32,000 64,000 

R. S. Hazard 10,000 20,000 

J.L.King 13,000 26,000 

E. W. Gilmore 3,000 6,000 

T.C. Durant 12,000 24,000 

J.B. Alley 9,000 18,000 

R G. Hazard 27,000 54,000 

G. G. Gray 12,000 24,000 

T.C. Durant 100,000 200,000 

JoknDuff 101,000 202,000 

E.Cook 30,000 60,000 

O.S. Chapman 1,000 2,000 

G.G. Gray 55,000 110,000 

T.C. Durant 40,000 80,000 

B. H. Jenks 5, 000 10, 000 

R. G. Hazard 16,000 32,000 

T.C. Durant 35,000 70,000 

B. E.Bates 8,000 16,000 

H. & H.Gilbert 28,000 56,000 

Thos. Nickerson 1, 000 2, 000 

J. Bardwell 20,000 40,000 

T.C. Durant 18,000 36,000 

W. A. Guest 6,000 12,000 

1,909.000 3,818,000 

Income-bonds, 1,909,000, at 60 $1,145,400 

Stock Union Pacific Railroad Company, 3,818,000, at 10 381, 800 

Profit and loss 3,436,200 

To stock Union Pacific Railroad Company 3, 436,200 

To discount, 3,818.000, at 90 



CONTRACTS OF THE UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD COMPANY. 

A. 

New York, August 8, 18G4. 
To the President and Committee on Contracts of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company : 

Gentlemen : I propose to enter into a contract to build and equip 
one hundred miles of your railroad and telegraph, commencing at 
Omaha City, complying, as far as practicable, to the general specifica- 
tions hereunto annexed, upon the following terms and conditions, viz : 

To proceed at once "with the grading and bridging, and complete the 
same within the time required by the acts of Congress specified, and in 
such manner as will comply with the same ; to assume all your contracts 
for ties, iron, and equipment — the company reserving the right, if they 
elect, to dispose of what iron they have with the exception of, say, five 
five hundred tons, which may be required to facilitate the grading, and 
also to dispose of the equipment not needed this season, except three 
locomotives and ten platform-cars: but in case they elect to do so, shall 



752 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

give me written notice of their intention prior to the 1st day of Octo- 
ber next. 

To build all necessary side track, not exceeding six per cent, in length 
of the main line, the contractor to have the right to change grades, pro- 
vided the maximum grade shall not exceed that of the New York Cen- 
tral Eailroad. Also to have the right to enter upon all lands belonging 
to said company, for the purpose of obtaining material used in the con- 
struction of the road. 

Should the company decide to Burnetize the cottonwood used for 
ties, they shall pay in addition sixteen cents for each tie, and for all 
other timber in like proportion. 

The contractor shall not be required to expend in the construction of 
any one bridge over eighty-five thousand dollars, nor shall he be required 
to expend for the erection of station-buildings, machinery, machine- 
shops, tanks, equipments, &c, more than five thousand dollars per 
mile, or five hundred thousand dollars in the aggregate, but the same 
shall be expended as directed by the engineer. The contractor to have 
the use of the road until the contract is completed. The work on the 
sections near Omaha, which have been let by the company, or which 
have been commenced, to be continued by them or transferred to me as 
may be agreed upon hereafter, and the cost of the same to be charged 
to me in final settlement. Any excess in the cost of iron above one hun- 
dred and thirty dollars per ton at Omaha to be allowed by the company. 
Eight of way to be furnished by the company. The expense of engin- 
eers engaged in the construction to be paid by the contractor. The com- 
pany to pay for the same, at the rate of fifty thousand dollars for each 
and every mile so completed. Payments to be made as the work pro- 
gresses, upon the estimate of the engineers, in making which the engin- 
eer shall deduct from each section its proportion of the cost of equip- 
ment not then furnished, station-buildings, superstructure, and cost of 
telegraph ; but all material delivered or in transit for the account of the 
company may be estimated for. The contractor to furnish money upon 
the securities of the company, as hereinafter provided for in the con- 
struction of each section of the length required by the acts of Congress 
hereinbefore referred to, viz : 

The company shall proceed to mortgage the land acquired from the 
Government at not more than sixteen thousand dollars per mile, bear- 
ing seven per cent, interest, payable semi-annually in the city of New 
York, which bonds shall be receivable as the bonds of the company at 
such prices as may be fixed upon from time to time as the cash price of 
the lands. The company to proceed to the preparing of the first-mort- 
gage bonds as provided for under the act, made and put on record, the 
mortgage securing the same, so that the bonds may be ready for use as 
soon as the provisions of the law are complied with ; and shall do every- 
thing necessary and requisite to obtain the Government bonds at an 
early day. In the mean time, if required, the company to execute cer- 
tificates of an amount to correspond to the first-mortgage and Govern- 
ment bonds, changeable for the same upon the company's obtaining the 
United States bonds. Said certificates to bear interest payable semi- 
annually at the rate of six per cent. On these certificates I will ad- 
vance, or procure to be advanced, the necessary funds to the company, 
at the rate of eighty per cent, of their par value, and on the land-grant 
bonds seventy per cent., reserving the right to dispose of them whenever 
the amount so advanced, including what may be due on construction, 
shall exceed five hundred thousand dollars, or whenever said advance 
shall have been made over four months, but not to do so for less than 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 753 

the prices above Darned. The company in their option to decide whether 
I take the bonds, or any portion of them, at the prices above named, in 
payment for advances and interest, if called upon to do so within thirty 
days thereafter. I will also subscribe, or cause to be subscribed, to the 
capital stock of your company, live hundred thousand dollars. I will 
assume and pay such obligations or accounts as may have been certi- 
fied to by the committee appointed by your board or executive commit- 
tee for services and expenses, the company paying me the amount of 
the obligation so certified to and assumed. In making this proposition, 
it may be well to state that I am connected with and agent for parties 
who have machines, oxen, and necessary outfit for prosecuting the work, 
and are prepared to commence at once, haviDg sent cattle and tools to 
Nebraska. 

H. M. HOXIE, 
By EL 0. CEANE, 

Attorney. 
H. M. HoxiE, Esq. : 

Dear Sir : You will please go on with the work under the above 
proposition, and if the company do not accept it before the first day of 
October next, they will pay you upon the same terms and conditions for 
what work may be done, as shown by the estimates of the engineers, 
made as provided in this proposition, first giving you thirty days' notice 
that they do not accept. 

GEOEGE T. M. DAVIS, 

Special Committee. 
Above contract is approved and ratified, 
[SEAL.] JOHN A. DIX. 

C. S. BUSHNELL. 
GEOEGE T. M. DAVIS, 
September 23, 1864. 

New York, October 4, 1864. 
To the President and Executive Committee of the Union Pacific Railroad 

JJompany : 

On condition that your railroad company will extend m3 T contract 
from its present length for one hundred miles, so as to embrace all that 
portion of the road between Omaha and the one hundredth meridian of 
longitude, I will subscribe, or cause to be subscribed, for five hundred 
thousand dollars of the stock of your eonrpany. 
Eespectfullv, vours, 

H. M. HOXIE, 
ByH. C. CRANE, 

Attorney. 
The above proposition is hereby accepted for and on behalf of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

JOHN A. DIX, 
C. S. BUSHNELL, 
GEO. T. M. DAVIS, 

Special Committee. 
October 3, 1864. 

B. 

New York, October 7, 1864. 
Whereas H. M. Koxie, es\ *f the State of Iowa, has a certain con- ■ 
tract, bearing date the eighth V-t of August, 1864, for the construction 
48 c m 



754 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

of a portion of the road of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, which 
contract the said Hoxie has agreed to assign to Thomas C. Durant, esq., 
of the city of New York, or to such party or parties as he may desig- 
nate by agreement, bearing date the thirtieth day of September, 1864, 
the terms of which assignment form a part of this agreement : Now, 
therefore, we, the undersigned, hereby agree to take an interest in the 
said contract to the extent set opposite our respective names, deposit- 
ing at the same time, in the hands of said Thomas C. Durant, twenty- 
five per centum in cash on the interest so subscribed. And the parties 
hereto agree one with the other, that, should default be made in pay- 
ment of the balance of the interest so subscribed as required, the party 
so defaulting shall not be entitled to any further interest in said con- 
tract than the amount paid bears to the amount subscribed. It is un- 
derstood that the amount subscribed for the carrying out of this con- 
tract shall be one million six hundred thousand dollars. 

Thomas C. Durant, six hundred thousand dollars ; C. S. Bushnell, 
four hundred thousand dollars ; Charles A. Lambard, one hundred 
thousand dollars ; H. S. McComb, one hundred thousand dollars ; H. 
W. Gray, two hundred thousand dollars, &c, &c. 



C. 

Know all men by these presents, that I, Herbert M. Hoxie, for and in 
consideration of one dollar, to me in hand paid, the receipt whereof is 
hereby acknowledged, and for divers other good and valuable consid- 
erations me thereunto moving, do hereby sell, assign, transfer, and make 
over unto John Duff, trustee, all and singular the agreements between 
the Union Pacific Railroad Company and myself, made by and con- 
tained in a certain proposition in writing, signed by me, and dated Au- 
gust 8, 1864, and an acceptance thereof by said company, under its seal, 
dated September 23, 1864, both which proposition and acceptance are 
hereto annexed ; and also all my rights under said agreement, and all 
moneys, property, privileges, payments, benefits, and advantages to me 
or to my heirs, representatives, or assigns by said agreement provided 
for or secured, with full power to use my name whenever necessary or 
proper for obtaining, receiving, or enforcing the said rights, moneys, 
property, privileges, payments, benefits, and advantages as fully as I 
myself could do the same ; subject, nevertheless, to my agreement with 
the Credit Mobilier of America, dated the 15th of March, 1865, and all 
my rights thereunder. 

In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and seal this 
fifteenth day of March, one thousand eight hundred and sixty-five. 

HERBERT M. HOXIE. [l. s.] 

[United States internal-revenue stamp, $1, canceled.] 

K. B. — 1. 24, " March" written on erasure before execution. 

Witness : 

Benjamin F. Bunker. 

Whereas, Herbert M. Hoxie and the Union Pacific Railroad jOompany 
have entered into an agreement by means of the foregoing writings, 
(namely, a proposition from said Hoxie, dated August 8, 1864, and an 
acceptance thereof, dated September 23, 1864 :) 

Now these presents witness that the Credit Mobilier of America, in 
consideration of one dollar, to them in hand paid, the receipt whereof is 
hereby acknowledged, and for divers other good and valuable consid- 



CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 755 

erations them thereunto moving, do hereby covenant and agree to guar- 
antee, and hereby do guarantee, to and with the said Union Pacific 
.Railroad Company, that the said Herbert M. Hoxie, or his representa- 
tives or assigns, shall and will, well, truly, and perfectly perform and 
fulfill the said agreement in all things on his part to be done or per- 
formed, according to the terms and true intent of said agreement, as in 
said foregoing waitings contained. 

In witness whereof, the said Credit Mobilier of America have caused 
these presents to be sealed with their corporate seal and signed by their 
president, this fifteenth day of March, one thousand eight hundred and 
sixty-five, at their agency in the citv of New York. 

[seal.] THOMAS C. DUEANT, 

President. 
Attest: 

B. F. Bunker, 

Assistant Secretary. 

Memorandum of an agreement made the Wth day of March, 1865* between 
the Credit Mobilier of America, a corporation organized under the laws 
of the State of Pennsylvania, of one part, and Herbert M. Hoxie, of the 
other part. 

Whereas, by certain writings hereto annexed, and forming part of 
these presents, a contract has been made by and between the Union 
Pacific Bailroad Company and said Hoxie ; 

And whereas said Hoxie has partly performed the same : 
Now, in consideration of the premises, and of the mutual grants and 
agreements herein contained, the parties to these presents grant and 
agree as follows : 

Said Credit Mobilier agrees to execute to said company a guarantee 
of the performance of said contract by said Hoxie, and also to make to 
said Hoxie all advances of money which may be necessary to provide 
and pay for labor, materials, services, and all other expenses and 
charges in the construction of the railroad, and other performance of 
said contract on said Hoxie's part ; and also to provide for, secure, and 
obtain all subscriptions to capital stock required by said contract from 
said Hoxie. Said Hoxie agrees to, and hereby does, assign to said 
Credit Mobilier all his right to have and receive from said company 
securities, stocks, moneys, profits, and payments due or to become due 
for constructing the railroad, or other performance of said contract, 
upon said Hoxie's being paid for all work done and materials furnished, 
as by adjustment certificates of the engineer or settlement made in 
December last j and he hereby appoints said Credit Mobilier his lawful 
attorney irrevocable, to take, collect, and receive for their use all the 
matters and things so assigned. 

And for the better securing said Credit Mobilier against being made 
chargeable on said guarantee by any default of said Hoxie, and against 
any loss of the matters and things above assigned, said Hoxie hereby 
appoints said Credit Mobilier his lawful attorney, irrevocable, to name, 
constitute, employ, and at their pleasure remove all agents and sub- 
agents which said Credit Mobilier may deem necessary or proper, to 
conduct, manage, and do the business of constructing the railroad, 
otherwise performing said contract, and to pay out and apply the 
moneys so to be advanced to the uses for which the same are to be 
advanced, and does hereby -pledge and transfer to said Credit Mobilier 
the said contract and all his rights under the same as collateral secu- 
rity for the performance of said contract on his part, with full power to 
enforce such pledge on default without notice. 



756 CREDIT MOBILISE AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

The said Credit Mobil ier agrees to save said Hoxie harmless and in- 
demnified against all claims under said contract, and to pay the said 
Hoxie five thousand dollars in cash and ten thousand dollars in the 
stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, and to carry out the con- 
ditions relating to a construction bureau, as shown by specifications 
hereto annexed. 

In witness whereof said Credit Mobilier has executed this memoran- 
dum under its seal and signature of its president, and said Hoxie has 
signed and sealed the same, the day and year first above written, at 
their agency in the city of New York. 



T. C. DURANT, President. 
H. M. HOXIE. 



Witness : B. F. Bunker. 



D. 

L. B. Boozier, Esq., Chicago, Illinois: 

Sir : Referring to our informal agreement for the construction of a 
portion of the Union Pacific Railroad, I hand you the following memo- 
randum of contract, which, if in accordance with your understanding 
as to details, you will please indorse as accepted, and return me one 
copy, retaining the other jfor yourself: 

1st. You to assume such existing contracts for material, grading, 
bridging, &c, &c, as may properly belong or appertain to the con- 
struction of one hundred and fifty miles of the road westward from the 
one hundredth meridian of longitude, including an agreement for the 
grading and superstruction of that portion of the road between the one 
hundredth meridian of longitude and the west bank of the North Platte 
River, at the rate of nineteen thousand five hundred dollars per mile, 
exclusive of the bridge over the said river, which bridge is to be paid 
for at the actual cost of construction. 

2d. All the present employes on construction are to be retained 
and employed under this contract, unless discharged for inefficiency or 
other good reasons. That the work shall be under my supervision, or 
that of the engineer or person designated by the company, and through 
the superintendents, engineers, agents, and contractors now on the 
work, in order that the present effective organization may not be im- 
paired or changed until the railroad company decide whether they let 
the contract for building and equipping the balance of the road to par-' 
ties who may wish to have the advantage of the present organization 
or do the work themselves as a corporation ; but nothing in this shall 
be construed to prevent the employment of other agents, if thereby the 
work can be more expeditiously and economically prosecuted. 

3d. The grading, bridging, and superstructure to be completed to 
the satisfaction of the company's engineer and the acceptance of the 
Government commissioners, and of the same character as to workman- 
ship, material, and kind of iron, &c, as in the construction of the one 
hundred miles east of the one hundredth meridian of longitude. 

4th. Work on station-buildings, depot-grounds, tank-houses, or any- 
thing appertaining thereto, or equipment and rolling-stock, to be an 
additional charge, but all such work is to be done with the sanction 
and under the direction of the engineer in charge. The side-track and 
turn-outs necessary for the immediate requirements of the company, at 
the several stations established on the line, as indicated by the engineers 
at the present time, to be constructed at the expense of the contractor. 
If more should be required, the same is to be constructed at the expense 
of the company. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 757 

5th. The cost of iron, delivered at Omaha, is guaranteed not to ex- 
ceed one hundred and thirty dollars per ton; and if ties or bridge mate- 
rial are burned or destroyed, the company is to pay the actual cost of 
the same. The transportation of men and material, &c, used for the 
construction, to be free of charge to the contractor over the completed 
portion of the road. 

6th. The work to be pushed with the same rapidity as heretofore, 
and, if required, to be completed at the rate of two miles for each 
pleasant working-day, provided the company deliver and transport the 
necessary material therefor over the completed portion of the road 
without causing detention. 

In case the engineer in charge is of the bpinion the grading, &c, is 
not progressing as fast as required to comply with the contract, he shall 
be at liberty to place more men on the work, at the cost of the con- 
tractor ; but the company shall not require grading to be done while 
the ground is frozen, unless at their own cost and expense ; neither 
shall the contractor be liable for delays from high water or causes en- 
tirely beyond his control. 

7th. In consideration of the faithful performance on your part of the 
above work, you shall be paid twenty thousand dollars per mile for 
each and every mile so completed west of the North Platte River bridge 
to the termination of the fourth hundred miles westward from Omaha, 
and nineteen thousand five hundred dollars per mile, and the cost of 
the North Platte River bridge, for each and every mile between the one 
hundredth meridian and the west bank of the North Platte River, as 
hereinbefore referred to. Payments to be made as the work progresses, 
on the monthly estimates of the engineer in charge of the work, and 
that material delivered or in transit may be estimated when the same 
has been shipped for account of the company. 

THOS. C. DTJR ANT, Agent. 

New York, November 10, 1866. 

I hereby accept the above. 

L. B. BOOMER. 

I hereby become personally responsible for the payment to you of the 
^abovp 

THOS. C. DURANT. 

The within coutract may be terminated by giving me ten days 7 notice, 
in writing, and the payment, according to the terms thereof, of all sums 
that may be due for work performed and material furnished. 

L. B. BOOMER. 



E. 

OERTIFICATE OF ENGINEER REFERRED TO IN ABOVE RE- 
PORT OF THE TREASURER OF THE UNION PACIFIC RAIL- 
ROAD COMPANY. 

Estimate to contractors for building road icest of one hundredth meridian^ 

December 31, 1868. 

100 miles, at $42,000 per mile $4, 200, 000 

167 miles, at $45,000 per mile 7, 515, 000 

100 miles, at $96,000 per mile 9, 600, 000 

100 miles, at $80,000 per mile 8, 000, 000 

100 miles, at $90,000 per mile 9, 000, 000 

100 miles, at $96,000 per mile 9, 600, 000 

46 miles, at $90,000 per mile 4, 140, 000 



758 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

400,000 ties, at $1 each $400,000 

10,875 tons iron, at $110 per ton 1, 196, 250 

30 tons splice-bars, at $185 per ton 5, 500 

100 frogs and switches, at $100 each 10, 000 

1,000 telegraph-poles, at $2 each 2, 000 

100 miles wire, at $50 per mile 5, 000 

500,000 F. B. M. bridge- timber, at $50 per M 25, 000 

100,000 F. B. M. lumber, at $45 per M 4, 500 

100 miles grading, at $20,000 per mile ... 2, 000, 000 

Equipment : 

103 locomotives, at $14,000 / each 1, 442, 000 

16 first-class passenger-cars, at $4,000 each 96, 000 

8 second-class passenger-cars, at $3,500 each 28, 000 

14 baggage and express cars, at $2,800 each 39, 200 

81 caboose-cars, at $2,000 each. . . .' 162, 000 

494 box freight-cars, at $900 each .444, 600 

1,589 platform-cars, at $767 each 1, 218, 763 

54 station-houses, at $2,500 each 135, 000 

60 tank-houses, at $1,500 each , 90, 000 

70 windmills, at $1,500 each 105, 000 

10 coal-houses, at $1,800 each 18, 000 

12 turn-tables, at $1,500 each „ 18, 000 

North Platte round-house . 80, 000 

North Platte shops 150, 000 

North Platte eating-house 15, 000 

Sidney round-house 20, 000 

Cheyenne round-house , 80, 00O 

Cheyenne shops 100, 000 

Cheyenne eating-house 22, 000 

Sherman round-house 20, 000 

Laramie round-house 80, 000 

Laramie shops 200, 000 

Laramie eating-house , 45, 000 

Medicine Bow round-house 20, 000 

Bawling' s Springs round-house 40, 000 

Eawling's Springs shops . 150, 000 

Kawling's Springs eating-house 27, 000 

Bitter Creek round-house 40, 000 

Machinery for Bryan shops 150, 000 



60, 738, 863 



Deduct unfinished work, as follows : 
713 miles equipment, per contract, at $7,500 per mile 5, 347, 500 



55, 391, 363 
Amount received from company 43, 725, 000 

11, 6m, 363- 
G. M. DODGE, 

Chief Engineer. 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 759 

F. 

THE " CAKES AMES CONTRACT, 1 ' AND THE TRANSFERS OF THE SAME. 

Copy of contract Union Pacific Railroad Company with Oakes Ames, and 
transfer to T. C. Durant and others. 

Agreement made this 16th day of August, 1867, between the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company, party of the first part, and Oakes Ames, 
party of the second part, witnesseth — 

That the party of the first part agrees to let and contract, and the 
party of the second part agrees to contract, as follows, to wit : 

First. The party of the second part agrees and binds himself, bis 
heirs, executors, administrators, and assigns, to build and equip the fol- 
lowing-named portions of the railroad and telegraph line of the party 
of the first part, commencing at the 100th meridian of longitude, upon 
the following terms and conditions, to wit : 

1st 100 miles at, and for the rate of, $12,000 per mile. 

2d 167 miles at, and for the rate of, $45,000 per mile. 

3d 100 miles at, and for the rate of, $96,000 per mile. 

4th 100 miles at, and for the rate of, $80,000 per mile. 

5th 100 miles at, and for the rate of, $90,000 per mile. 

6th 100 miles at, and for the rate of, $96,000 per mile. 

Second. At least three hundred and fifty miles shall be, if possible, 
completed and ready for acceptance before the 1st day of January, 1868, 
provided the Union Pacific Eailroad Company transport the material. 
The whole to be constructed in a good and workmanlike manner, upon 
the same general plan and specifications as adopted east of the 100th 
meridian of longitude. The party of the second part shall erect all such 
necessary depots, machine-shops, machinery, tanks, turn-tables, and 
provide all necessary machinery and rolling-stock, at a cost of not less 
than $7,500 per mile, in cash, and shall construct all such necessary 
side-track as may be required by the party of the first part, not exceed- 
ing 6 per cent, of the length of the road constructed, and to be con- 
structed, under this contract. The kind of timber used for ties, and in 
the bridges, and in its preparation, shall be such as from time to time 
may be ordered or prescribed by the general agent, or the company, . 
under the rules and regulations, and standard, as recommended by the 
Secretary of the Interior, of the date of February — , 1866. 

Third. Whenever one of the above-named sections of the road shall 
be finished to the satisfaction and acceptance of the Government com- 
missioners, the same shall be delivered into the possession of the party 
of the first part, and upon such portions of the road, as well as on that 
part east of the 100th meridian now completed, the party of the first 
part shall transport, without delay, all men and material to be used in 
construction, at a price to be agreed upon by the party of the second 
part, his heirs, executors, administrators, or assigns, and the general 
agent, but not less than cost to the party of the first'part. 

Fourth. The party of the second part, his heirs, executors, adminis- 
trators, or assigns, shall have the right to enter upon all lands belonging 
to the company, or upon which the company may have any rights, and 
take therefrom any material used in the construction of the road, and 
may have the right to change the grade and curvature within the limits 
of the provisions of the act of Congress for the temporary purpose of 
hastening the completion of the road, but the estimated cost of reduc- 
ing the same to the grade and curvatures, as established by the chief 



760 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

engineer, or as approved from time to time by the company, shall be 
deducted and retained by the party of the first part, until such grade 
and curvature is so reduced. 

Fifth. The party of the second part, his heirs, executors, administra- 
tors, or assigns, is to receive from the company and enjoy the benefit of 
all existing contracts, and shall assume all such contracts and all lia- 
bilities of the company accrued or arising therefrom for work done or 
to be done, and material furnished or to be furnished, for or on account 
of the road west of the 100th meridian, crediting, however, the party of 
the first part on this contract all moneys heretofore paid or expended on 
account thereof. 

Sixth. The party of the second part, for himself, his heirs, executors, 
administrators, and assigns, stipulates and agrees that the work shall be 
prosecuted and completed with energy and all possible speed, so as to 
complete the same at the earliest practicable day, it being understood 
that the speed of construction and time of completion is the essence of 
this contract, and at the same time the road to be a first-class road, with 
equipments; and if the same, in the opinion of the chief engineer, 
is not so prosecuted, both as regards quality and dispatch, that then 
the said party of the first part shall and may, through its general agent, 
or other officer detailed for that purpose, take charge of said work, and 
carry the same on at proper cost and expense of the party of the second 
part. 

Seventh. The grading, bridging, and superstructure to be completed 
under the supervision of the general agent of the company, to the sat- 
isfaction of the chief engineer, and to be of the same character as to 
the workmanship and materials as in the construction of the road east 
of the 100th meridian. 

It is, however, understood, that all iron hereafter purchased, or con- 
tracted for, shall be of the weight of not less than fifty-six pounds to the 
yard, and to be fish-bar joints. 

Eighth. All the expenses of the engineering are to be charged and 
paid by the party of the second part, except the pay and salary of the 
chief engineer and consulting engineer, and their immediate assistants, 
and the expenses of the general survey of the route. 

Ninth. The depot buildings, machine-shops, water-tanks, and also 
bridges, shall be of the most approved pattern, and they, as well as the 
kind of masonry and other material used, shall be previously approved 
by the general agent and chief engineer of the company, and all tunnels 
shall be of the proper width for a double track, and shall be arched with 
brick or stone, when necessary, for the protection of the same. 

Tenth. Payments to be made as the work progresses, upon the esti- 
mates of the chief engineer — in making which the engineer shall deduct 
from each section its proportion of the cost of the equipment not then 
furnished, station-buildings, superstructure, and cost of telegraph, but 
all materials delivered or in transit for the account of the company may 
be estimated for. 

Eleventh. Payments hereon shall be made to the party of the second 
part, his heirs, executors, administrators, or assigns, in cash ; but if the 
Government bonds received by the company cannot be converted into 
money at their par value net, and the first-mortgage bonds of the com- 
pany, at ninety cents on the dollar net, then the said party of the second 
part, his heirs, executors, administrators, and assigns shall be charged 
herein the difference between the amount realized and the above-named 
rates ; provided the first-mortgage bonds are not sold for less than eighty 
ceuts on the dollar, and if there shall not be realized from the sale of 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 761 

such bonds an amount sufficient to pay the party of the second part, 
his heirs, executors, administrators, or assigns, for work as stipulated in 
this contract, and according to the terms thereof, then such deficiency 
shall, from time to time, be subscribed by said party of the second part, 
his heirs, executors, administrators, or assigns, to the capital stock of 
said company, and proceeds of such subscriptions shall be paid to said 
party of the second part, his heirs, executors, administrators, or assigns, 
on this contract. 

Twelfth. On the first one hundred miles on this contract there shall 
be added to the equipment now provided for, and intended to apply on 
this section, as follows, viz : six locomotives, fifty box-cars, four passen- 
ger-cars, two baggage-cars, and a proportionate amount of equipment 
of like character be supplied on the second section of one hundred miles 
after the same is completed. 

Thirteenth. The amount provided to be expended for equipment, 
station-buildings, &c, shall be expended unde^the direction of the party 
of the first part, and in such proportion for cars, locomotives, machine- 
shops, station-buildings, &c, and at such points as they may determine. 
The party of the first part to have the full benefit of such expenditures 
without profit to the contractor, or they may, in their option, purchase 
the equipment, and expend any portion of said amount provided at any 
point on the road where they may deem the same most advantageous to 
the company, whether on the section on which said reservation occurs or 
not. 

Fourteenth. The telegraph-line is included herein under the term 
" railroad," and is to be constructed in the same manner and with simi- 
lar materials as in the lines east of the one hundredth meridian. 

The said parties hereto, in consideration of the premises and of their 
covenants herein, do mutually agree, severally, to perform -and fulfill 
their several respective agreements above written. 

This contract having been submitted to the executive committee by 
resolution of the board of directors, August 16, 1867, and we having 
examined the details of the same, recommend its execution by the proper 
officers of the company with the. Hon. Oakes Ames, the party named as 
the second part. 

(Signed) OLIVER AMES, 

C. S. BUSHNELL, 
SPRINGER HARJBAUGH, 
THOMAS C. DURANT, 
Executive Committee Union Pacific Railroad Company. 

At a meeting of the executive committee held on the 1st day of Octo- 
ber, 1867, a resolution was offered to approve the foregoing contract, 
which was lost. Thereupon the following resolutions were offered and 
adopted : 

"Resolved, That the foregoing contract between the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company and Oakes Ames, referred to the executive committee 
by a resolution of the board, August 16, 1867, to settle the details, be 
approved, and that the proper officers of the company be instructed to 
execute the same, subject, however, to the written approval of the stock- 
holders of the company, as understood by the board of directors when 
the same was voted upon. 

"Resolved, That the option to extend this contract to Salt Lake be 
referred to the board, with recommendation that said option be accepted. 77 



762 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

Assignment of contract to T. C. Burant and others. 

Memorandum of agreement, in triplicate, made this 15th day of Octo- 
ber, 1867, between Oakes Ames, of North Easton, Massachusetts, party 
of the first part, Thomas C. Durant, of the city of New York ; Oliver 
Ames, of North Easton, Massachusetts ; John B. Alley, of Lynn, Mas- 
sachusetts ; Sidney Dillon, of the city of New York ; Cornelius S. Bush- 
nell, of New Haven, Connecticut ; Henry S. McComb, of Wilmington, 
Delaware; and Benjamin E. Bates, of Boston, Massachusetts, parties of 
the second part, and the Credit Mobilier of America, party of the third 
part. 

That whereas the party of the first part has undertaken a certain 
large contract for the construction of a certain portion therein named of 
the railroad and telegraph line of the Union Pacific Railroad Company 
over the plains and through and over the Rocky Mountains, which will 
require a very large and hazardous outlay of capital, which capital he is 
desirous to be assured of raising, at such times and in such sums as 
will enable him to complete and perform the said contract according to 
its terms aud conditions ; and 

Whereas the Credit Mobilier of America, the party of the third part, 
a corporation duly established by law, is empowered by its charter to 
advance and loan money in aid of such enterprises, and can control 
large amounts of capital for such purposes, and is willing to loan to said 
party of the first part such sums as may be found necessary to complete 
said contract, provided sufficient assurance may be made to said party 
of the third part therein that said sums shall be duly expended in the 
work of completing said railroad aud telegraph line, and that the pay- 
ments for the faithful performance of said contract by said railroad eom- 
p'any shall be held and applied to re-imburse said party of the third part 
for their loans and advances, together with a reasonable interest for the 
use of the money so loaned and advanced; and 

Whereas said party of the third part fully believes that said contract, 
if honestly and faithfully executed, will be both profitable and advan- 
tageous to the parties perforining the same, are therefore willing to 
guarantee the performance and execution of the same, for a reasonable 
commission to be paid therefor; and 

Whereas both parties of the first and third part have confidence and 
.reliance in the integrity, business capacity, and ability of the several 
persons named as parties of the second part hereto, and confidently be- 
lieve that said persons have large interests, as well in the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company as in the Credit Mobilier of America, they will exe- 
cute and perform the said contract, and faithfully hold the proceeds 
thereof to the just use and benefit of the parties entitled thereto : 

Therefore it is agreed by and between the said parties of the first, 
second, and third part hereto as follows, that is to say: 

That said Oakes Ames, party of the first part hereto, hereby for and 
in consideration of one dollar lawful money of the United States, to him 
duly paid by the party of the second part, and for divers other good 
and valuable considerations herein thereunto moving, doth hereby 
assign, set over, and transfer unto the said Thomas C. Durant, Oliver 
Ames, John B. Alley, Sidney Dillon, Cornelius S. Bushuell, Henry S. 
McComb, and Benjamin E. Bates, parties of the second part, all the 
right, title, and interest of, in, and to the said certain contract hereto- 
fore made and executed by and between the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company and the said Oakes Ames, bearing date the 16th day of August, 
1867, for the construction of portions of the railroad and telegraph line 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 763 

of said railroad company, to which contract reference is herein made, 
for them, the said parties of the second part, to have and to hold the 
same to them and their survivors and successors forever in trust. 

Nevertheless, upon the following trusts and conditions and limita- 
tions, to wit : 

First. That they, the said parties of the second part, shall perform all 
the terms and conditions of the said contract so assigned, in all respects, 
which in and by the terms and conditions thereof is undertaken and 
assumed and agreed to be done and performed by the said party of the 
first part herein named. 

Second. That they, the said parties of the second part, shall hold all 
the avails and proceeds of the said contract, and therefrom shall reim- 
burse themselves and the party of the third part hereto, all moneys ad- 
vanced and expended by them, or either of them, in executing or per- 
forming the said contract, with interest and commission thereon, as 
hereinafter provided. 

Third. Out of the said avails and proceeds to pay unto the parties of 
the second part a reasonable sum as compensation for their services as- 
such trustees for executing and performing the terms and conditions of 
this agreement, which compensation shall not exceed the sum of three 
thousand dollars per annum to each and every one of the parties of the 
second part. 

Fourth. To hold all the rest and residue of the said proceeds and 
avails for the use and benefit of such of the several persons holding and 
owning shares in the capital stock of the said Credit Mobilier of America 
on the day of the date hereof, in proportion to the number of shares 
which said stockholders now severally hold and own, and for the use 
and benefit of such of the several assignees and holders of such shares 
of stock at the times herein set forth, for the distribution of said residue 
and remainder of said avails and proceeds, who shall comply with the 
provisions, conditions, and limitations herein contained, which are on 
their part to be complied with. 

Fifth. To pay over, on or before the first Wednesday of June and 
December in each year, or within thirty days thereafter, his just share 
and proportion of the residue and remainder of the said proceeds and 
avails as shall be justly estimated by the said trustees to have been 
made and earned as net profit on said contract, during the preceding 
six months, to each shareholder only in said Credit Mobilier of America, 
who being a stockholder in the Union Pacific Railroad shall have made 
and executed his power of attorney or proxy, irrevocable, to said sev- 
eral parties of the second part, their survivors and successors, empow- 
ering them, the said parties of the second jmrt, to vote upon at least 
six- tenths of all the shares of stock owned by said shareholders of the 
Credit Mobilier of America in the capital stock of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company, on the day of the date hereof, and six- tenths of any 
stock in said Union Pacific Railroad Company he may have received as 
dividend or otherwise, because or by virtue of having been a stock- 
holder in said Credit Mobilier of America, or which may appertain to 
any shares in said Union Pacific Railroad Company which had been so 
assigned to him at the time or times of the distribution of the said 
profits as herein provided ; and this trust is made and declared upon 
the express condition and limitation that it snarl not inure in any man- 
ner or degree to the use or benefit of any stockholder of the Credit Mo- 
bilier of America who shall neglect or refuse to execute and deliver unto 
the said parties of the second part his proxy or power of attorney, in 
the manner and for the purpose hereinbefore provided, or who shall in 



764 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

any way, or by any proceeding, knowingly hinder, delay, or interfere 
with the execution or performance of the trust and conditions herein 
declared and set forth. 

And the above transfer and conveyance of said contract is made upon 
these further trusts and conditions, to wit : 

First. The said parties of the second part, their survivors and suc- 
cessors, trustees as aforesaid, in all their acts and doings in the execu- 
tion and performance of said contract, and in the execution of their 
several trusts and conditions herein set forth, shall act by the concur- 
rent assent of four of their number, expressed in writing or by yea and 
nay vote, at a meeting of said trustees, either or both of which shall be 
recorded in a book of proceedings of said trustees, kept for the purpose 
by their secretary, and not otherwise. 

Second. Said parties of the second part shall keep an office in the 
city of New York, for the transaction of the business incidental to Said 
trust. Meetings of said trustees may be held on call of the secretary, 
on request of any two of their number; such call may be made per- 
sonally or by mail. 

Third. The said trustees shall appoint a competent person as secre- 
tary, who shall keep a faithful record of all their acts, proceedings, and 
contracts, in books to be provided for that purpose, and shall cause to 
be kept suitable books of accounts and vouchers of all their business 
transactions, which books shall at all times be open to the inspection of 
any of said trustees. 

Fourth. The said trustees shall cause a monthly statement to be 
made, showing the amount due from the Union Pacific Kail road Com- 
pany on account of work done, or equipment or material furnished 
under the contract, according to the estimates of the engineer of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company, as provided in said contract, a copy 
of which statement shall be furnished to the Credit Mobilier of America. 

And the above transfer and conveyance of said contract is made 
upon the further trust and condition : 

First. That in case of death, declination, disability, by reason of sick- 
ness or absence from the country for the space of six months, or neglect 
to fulfill the duties and obligations of said trust for the same time, by 
either said trustees, the remaining or surviving trustees may declare 
the place of such trustee to be vacant, and fill such vacancy by vote in 
manner aforesaid. 

Second. That in case any one of said trustees shall willfully neglect 
or evade the performance of his duties as such trustee, or shall willfully 
attempt to hinder, delay, obstruct, or interfere with the execution or 
performance of said contract, or the due execution and performance of 
said trust and conditions, according to the true intent thereof, or shall 
appropriate to his own use or benefit any money or other valuable thing 
belonging to or appertaining to said trust, fund, or propert3 r , he shall 
not be entitled further to act as such trustee or to receive any of the 
benefits of said trusts, either as shareholder in said Credit Mobilier of 
America or otherwise. 

The parties of the second part do hereby accept the said trust, and 
agree faithfully to execute and perforin the same according to the terms, 
conditions, and limitations herein set forth. 

The party of the third part, in consideration of the premises, hereby 
agree to advance, as upon a loan, to the said parties of the second part, 
their survivors and. successors, all such sums of money, and at such 
times as may be necessary, to enable said trustees economically and 
promptly to execute and perform the conditions of said contract, upon 



CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 765 

the call of said parties of the second'part, their survivors and success- 
ors, such sums, never to exceed in the whole the amount provided for in 
said contract, to be paid by the Union Pacific Railroad Company for the 
execution and performance thereof, and to receive therefor interest at 
the rate of seven per centum per annum, payable semi-annually, on each 
sum so advanced, until the same are repaid. 

And said party of the third part do further agree, for the considera- 
tion aforesaid, and for an amount equal to two and one-half per cent, 
on the amount to be by them advanced, to be paid to them as commis- 
sion, to, and do hereby, guarantee unto the parties of the first and sec- 
ond part, the due performance and execution of the said contract 
according to its terms and conditions, and to indemnify and hold harm- 
less the said parties of the first and second part, of and from all cost, 
liability, loss, or damage to them, or either of them, arising from or on 
account of said contract, and to the faithful performance of the agree- 
ments, contracts, and conditions hereinabove specified to be done and 
performed by each. 

And this conveyance and transfer is made upon the further trust and 
condition that the trustees shall adjust and pay over to the Credit Mo- 
bilier of America such portion of the net profits of the work done and 
material furnished on the first 100 miles west of the 100th. meridian as 
was done and performed prior to January 1, 1867. 

In witness whereof the party of the first part, the several parties, of 
the second part, in their own proper persons, have hereunto set their 
hands and seals, and the party of the third part has caused these pres- 
ents to be executed by its president, attested by its secretary, with the 
seal of the said companv, on the day and vear above written. 

CAKES AMES. 
THCS. C. DURANT. 
OLIVER AMES. 
JOHN B. ALLEY. 
SIDNEY DILLON. 
CORNELIUS S. BUSHNELL. 
H. S. McCOMB. 
BENJAMIN E. BATES. 
Signed, sealed, and delivered in presence of — 
Clark Bell. 

THE CREDIT MOBILIER OF AMERICA, 
By its president, 

SIDNEY DILLON. 
Attest: Benjamin F. Ham, 

Assistant Secretary. 



G. 

• New Y'ork, February 26, 1869. 
The executive committee of the board of directors of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Conpany, pursuant to adjournment ? met this day at the office 
of the company. 
Present: Messrs. Ames, Durant, McComb, Duff, and Bushnell. 
The following communication was then received from the vice-presi- 
dent, Mr. Durant : 

New York, November 27, 1868. 
To the Board of Directors of the Union Pacific Railroad Company : 

Gentlemen : I hand you herewith copy of contract and an assign- 
ment of the same in trust to the same parties who are trustees for the 



766 CREDIT MOBILIER AND UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD. 

assignees of the Ames contract, the whole subject to the approval of 
the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company. I found it 
absolutely necessary, in order to carry out the wishes of the board, to 
commence work on this portion of the road at once. The present organ- 
ization, with its large outfit of teams, tools, and men, presented the most 
available means of doing the same. To have created an entirely new 
organization would cause so much delay that the programme of the 
company far the year would have been endangered. Should your stock- 
holders not sanction the contract, you will have to make some fair ar- 
rangement with the trustees of the Ames contract for the use* of their 
outfit. On the other hand, if approved, the work can go on under the 
same organization as heretofore. 
Eeferring the whole subject for your action, 
I remain, very respectfully, yours, &c, 

THOMAS C. DUEANT, 
• Vice-President and General Agent. 
There having been no meeting of your board since the date hereof, 1 
hand the report to your executive committee. You will perceive I have 
taken the terms of the Oakes Ames contract as a base, believing that 
to be the wishes of the stockholders who approved said contract. 

Weber, November 1, 1868. 
Thomas C. Durant, Vice-President and General Agent, Union Pacific Bail- 
road Company : 
Sir : I will build and equip, according to the specifications of the con- 
tract made by your company with Oakes Ames, esq., all that portion of 
your road not embraced in the said contract, and west of the same, upon 
the conditions and terms embraced in said contract, for the pro rata 
price per mile according to the amount of work to be done, which rate 
shall be established by competent engineers, or in such manner as your 
board shall determine. 

(Signed) Yours, &c, JAMES W. DAYIS. 

Accepted, subject to approval of all the stockholders of November 1. 
(Signed) * THOMAS 0. DUEANT, 

Vice-President and General Agent. 
Weber, November 6, 1868. 
Know all men by these presents that I, J. W. Davis, do hereby, in 
consideration of one dollar lawful money of the United States to me in 
hand paid, and for other considerations to me satisfactory, do hereby 
assign, transfer, and set over to Oliver Ames, Thomas C. Durant, John 
Duff, Sidney Dillon, H. S. McOomb, B. E. Bates, and 0. S. Bushnell, 
trustees for the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, the 
contract made with me for building a portion of their road, dated No- 
vember 1, to have and to hold the same, as trustees aforesaid, and all 
benefits and profits accruing from the same, they assuming and paying 
all losses and liabilities of every kind ; said profits, if any, to be divided 
pro rata according to the amount of stock held by each stockholder, or 
to which he was entitled on the 1st day of November ; this assignment 
and the contract referred to being subject to the approval of the afore- 
said stockholders. 

(Signed) JAMES W. DAYIS. 

Witness: 

(Signed) ' C, L. FEOST. 

• By resolution, my action as to this contract was approved, and a com- 
mittee appointed to obtain the assent of the stockholders. 



INDEX. 



A. 

Page. 

John B. Alley .. 1,307,556 

Oakes Ames ...6,23,344,723 

Oliver Ames 241,260,295 

Elisba Atkins 303 

B. 

C. S. Bushnell 38,528 

O. W. Barnes 138 

B. F. Butler..., 683 

C. 

Horace F. Clark 394,665 

C. C. Cox 574 

Henry C. Crane 30,512,574,629 

D. 

Thomas C. Durant 62,67,96,513 

John Duff 478 

Peter A. Dey 238,668 

Sidney Dillon 497 

Hon. O.J. Dickey 676 

G. 

Thomas P. Gilman (548 

* H. 

Benjamin F. Ham 6,371,636,640 

Alexander Hay , 457 

T.Z.Hoover 569 

k. 

Hon. D. W. Kelley 580 

L. 
John W. Le Barnes , 681 

M. 
Edward Morgan 648 

P. 
A. J. Poppleton 691 



768 INDEX. 

R. 

Page. 

E.H. Rollins 160,210,582,638 

J. A. Rice : 294 

S. 

Joseph B. Stewart 173,388 

W. Bigler Shaw 220 

B. W. Spence 344,367,525 

Webster Snyder 467 

E.J. Smith 568 

Thomas A. Scott 649 

Charles T. Sherman 651,695 

V. 

C. C. VanZandt •.... 475 

W. 

J.M. S. Williams 160,201 

James F. Wilson 227,362 



INDEX TO TESTIMONY 



ALLEY, JOHN B., testimony of : 

Existence of the Credit Mobilier, p. 1 ; officers of the Union Pacific Railroad, 1 ; who 
procured the charter for the Credit Mobilier, 2 ; parties to the original organiza- 
tion of the Credit Mobilier, 2 ; Credit Mobilier a regular corporation, 2 ; New York 
agency, Credit Mobilier, 2; officers of the Credit Mobilier, 3; office of the Credit 
Mobilier, 3 ; custodian of the books, 3 ; officers and directors of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company, 3; custodian of the books of the Union Pacific Railroad, 3; 
amount of stock of the Union Pacific Railroad Company subscribed and actually 
paid in, 3 ; the first contract for the construction of the Union Pacific Railroad, 3 ; 
Mr. Ames induced to become a member, 3 ; the contract for 247 miles of road 
practically made with the Credit Mobilier, 3 ; the Credit Mobilier had nothing to 
do with building the road except the first 247 miles, 4 ; Mr. Durant objects to the 
Credit Mobilier having the contract to build the road, 4 ; the Credit Mobilier agree 
to guarantee the fulfillment of the Ames contract, 4 ; property of the Credit 
Mobilier consisted of, 4 ; Oakes Ames agrees to build 667 miles of the road, 4 ; 
Davis contract, 4 ; the Ames contract subject to the assent of the stockholders of 
of the Union Pacific Railroad, 5 ; Ames contract assigned to seven trustees of the 
Credit Mobilier, 5 ; dividend declared by the Credit Mobilier, 5 : profits made from 
the Ames contract, 5 ; out of what the two 6 per cent, dividends were made, 6 ; stock- 
holders of the Union Pacific Railroad assent to the Ames contract, 6 ; the Government 
was not regarded as having an interest in the contract, 6 ; protest of Government 
directors filed with the Secretary of the Interior— testimony with reference to, 
307 ; Mr. Sherman, Government director — his position with reference to the 58 
miles of completed road under the Hoxie contract, 307, 308 ; Alley opposed to the 
Ames contract, 308; Mr. Ames did no work under his contract, 308; stockholders 
assent to the Ames contract, 308 ; reason why Mr. Ames demanded the assent of the 
stockholders, 308, 309 ; $10,000 paid to aid Harlan's election, 309, 310 ; suspense- 
account of §435,000, 310-313 ; report of the committee on the suspense-account, 
314 ; resolution of Mr. McComb, approving the suspense-account, 314 ; a large por- 
tion of the money set out in the suspense-account was expended in 1862 and 1864, 
314 ; the $112,000 mentioned in the suspense-account as having been paid to Durant 
December 29, 1865, 314, 315; money spent under the authority of the board, 315; 
money handed over to J. B. Stewart, 316 ; no report made to the directors of the 
Union Pacific Railroad of the result of the investigation of the suspense-account, 
316 ; names of the committee of investigation on the suspense-account, 316 ; the 
$50,000 paid in settlement of the Fisk suit, 317 ; the Credit Mobilier and Union 
Pacific Railroad never paid a dollar to aid in the election of a United States Sena- 
tor, 317, 318 ; explanation as to the $1,004,000, 318-320 ; can only explain the expen- 
ditures from memory and not from the books, 320 ; $36,000,000 in cash paid into 
the treasury of the Union Pacific Railroad on account of stock, 320 ; Credit Mobi- 
lier paid for the stock in cash or checks, 320 ; explanation as to the mode of paying 
for stock, 321 ; advice of counsel as to what constitutes an equivalent for money, 
321; value of stock at the time of the Ames contract, 322 ; Oakes Ames mistaken 
about the value of the stock, 322; stock had no market value, 323; the price per 
mile agreed to be paid for the construction of the road was increased because the 
payment was to be made in stock, 323 ; the Union Pacific Railroad could not get 
dollar for dollar for its stock, 324 ; the stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company and the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier were the same persons, 324; 
proposition to buy stock of those who were uot willing to become stockholders 
in the Credit Mobilier, 324 ; those who did not buy stock in the Credit Mobilier 
received a part of the profits, 325; mode of letting the contracts, 325 ; when the 
Oakes Ames contract was let the stock was understood to be worth less than par, 
325; the stock issued to the Credit Mobilier paid for in cash, in effect, 325; price 
paid per share for Union Pacific Railroad stock, $4 per share, 3.27, 328 ; all banks 
are organized under the advice of counsel, Boston lawyers, 329 ; parties to partici- 
pate in the dividends under the Oakes Ames contract, 330; proxies, by whom 
49 c M 



770 INDEX. 

ALLEY, JOHN B.— Continued. 

held and for what purpose, 330 ; the Hoxie contract, its extent, &c, 331 ; track 
laid not accepted by the Government, 331 ; the Oakes Ames contract extended over 
the one hundred and thirty-eight miles of completed road, in order to give the 
Credit Mobilier a profit upon the construction of that portion of the road, 332 ;. 
Credit Mobilier claimed an interest in the Ames contract, 333 ; don't know how 
the profits were estimated, 333 ; dividends, amount, dates, &c, 334 ; in case the 
money paid out in dividends was required to complete the road, it was to be paid ; 
back, 334, 335 ; loans made to the road, how secured, 335 ; dividends could only 
properly be made out of the earnings of the road, 336 ; actual cost for building 
the road under the Ames contract, 336, 337 ; $12,000,000 profit, 337, 338 ; Mr. Ames 
did not expect to put the contract through himself, 338 ; value of stock, 339 ; what 
saves the company from bankruptcy, 339, 340 ; large sums owing to the Credit 
Mobilier by the Union Pacific Eailroad at the time of making the Ames contract, 
340 ; road accepted by the Government, and bonds issued, with dates, &c, 341 ;■ 
consideration paid to Hoxie for the assignment of contract, 342 ; the road con- 
sidered in a delicate position financially, 342, 343; amount of Union Pacific Pail- 
road stock held by Mr. Alley, 344 ; statement, and additional testimony of Mr. 
Alley, 556. 

AMES, OAKES, testimony of: 

The Government has paid to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company $16,000 per mile to- 
the foot of the Kocky Mountains, p. 23 ; about $27,000,000 of bonds in the whole, 
23 ; the Government has given about one-fourth of the land, and withholds the 
other three-fourths, 23 ; we have got the land certified to us for 250 miles at twenty 
sections to the mile, in all, 5,000 sections, 23; amount of the first-mortgage bonds- 
prior to the lien of the United States, about $27,000,000, 23 ; first-mortgage bonds 
were used for the construction of the road, 23 ; the first mortgage-bonds sold at 
92|-, 23 ; the bonds were sold for 92-J, and we afterward got par for them, 23 ; about 
$2,000,000 worth of land sold, 23, 24; the Credit Mobilier assumed the Hoxie con- 
tract, 24 ; the Union Pacific Eailroad paid over $47,000,000 on the Ames contract, 
24 ; price per mile paid, 25 ; the Boomer and Davis contracts were assigned to the 
trustees, 25; I think the entire cost for construction of the Union Pacific Eailroad, 
including the equipment, and the entire paraphernalia of the road, amounted to 
about $60,000,000, 25 ; stock all paid in cash, 25 ; I think we made about 15 per 
cent, on the Ames contract, 26 ; the first-mortgage bonds were taken by the trus- 
tees, 26 ; I took the contract without regard to anybody else, 27 ; dividends paid, 
27 ; Union Pacific Eailroad is not now paying dividends, 27 ; Union Pacific Eail- 
road earnings, 27 ; net proceeds last year over running expenses and interest on 
bonds, $3,500,000, 28 ; I am a shovel-maker, 28 ; I looked over the estimates before 
making the contract, 28 ; I estimated that I should make 20 per cent., 29 ; tho 
profits of the Credit Mobilier were about 300 per cent., 29 ; I guaranteed lots of 
stock-buyers against loss, 29 ; I guaranteed Senator Grimes and others, 29 ; I took 
the capitalists in before I made the contract, 30; my present judgment is, that we 
made $8,000,000 or 9,000,000 on the Oakes Ames contract, 30; I think the profit 
was more than 200 -pev cent. ; I think it must have been 300 per cent., but I cannot 
tell you from memory, 30 ; hotel item of $18,000 paid at Willard's, 344 ; I have a 
recollection that an estimate was made by the chief engineer on the 31st of De- 
cember, 1868, 679 ; I think the salary paid to the first president of the Union Pa- 
cific Eailroad was $8,000 per year, 679 ; General Dix was a stockholder before I 
had anything to do with the road, 679 ; I recollect there was a letter from General 
Dix, 679 ; I let Painter have thirty shares, 680 ; Painter was clerk to some com- 
mittee, 681 ; memorandum of agreement made the 16th day of October, 1867, be- 
tween Thomas C. Durant, J. B. Alley, and others, 723 ; I wish to correct my former 
testimony as follows : on page 25, instead of the words " $16,000 a mile in stock,' 7 
I want to insert "$16,000 a mile in first-mortgage bonds," and on the same page 
strike out the words "we, the people," and substitute "the trustees;" also other 
corrections, 724. 

AMES, OLIVEE, testimony of: 

Elected director Union Pacific Eailroad Company October, 1866,. p. 241 ; elected presi 
dent Union Pacific Eailroad November, 1866, 241; became a stockholder in the Credit 
Mobilier in 1865, 241 and 242 ; Oakes Ames contract assigned to trustees within a 
month or two months after it was made, 242 ; Oliver Ames president of the com- 
pany at the time contract was made, 242 ; Oliver Ames one of the board of trustees, 
242 ; Davis contract, 242 ; Davis contract assigned, 242 ; Oliver Ames president of 
the company when Davis contract was made, 242 ; assignment of Davis contract 
to trustees, 242 ; trustees construct the road embraced in Davis contract, 242 ; 
trustees declare dividends, 243 ; only 5 and 10 per cent, paid on subscriptions, 243 ; 
$3,000,000 subscribed under the law of 1862, 243 ; stock subscribed for under the 
Hoxie and Ames contracts, 244 ; stock received by the Credit MobilieV, 244 ; firsi 



INDEX. 771 

AMES, OLIVER— Continued. 

subscription made, 244 ; subscriptions for 1867, 244 ; original subscriptions in 18G3, 
244 ; 10 per cent, paid on shares, 244 ; subscription June, 18G8, 245 ; dividend of 60 
per cent, in cash, and 40 per cent, in stock, 245 ; stock on which the dividend was 
made, 245 ; stock dividend at its par value, 245 ; trustees subscribe for $2,500,000 
Union Pacific Railroad stock, 245 ; allotment of 75 per cent, to the stockholders 
Credit Mobilier, 245 ; proposal to sell 28,125 shares Union Pacific Railroad stock 
at not less than 40 per cent., 246 ; allotment of 30 per cent, in cash to the parties 
interested in trust, 246 ; subscriptions for $4,000,000 stock Union Pacific Railroad 
and purchase of §2,500,000 of certificates first-mortgage bonds Union Pacific Rail- 
road at $101, 246 ; payment for stock how made, 246 ; Credit Mobilier calls for pay- 
ment of $11,666,363, being amount due from Union Pacific Railroad on contracts, 
246 ; Credit Mobilier subscribes for $7,500,000 stock in the Union Pacific Railroad, 
246 ; allotment made to the parties of the trust 200 per cent, in stock Union Pacific 
Railrad, 246 ; committee to confer with Governor Evans in respect to iron and ma- 
terials for the Denver road, 246 ; Duff and Bates, a committee to sell $5,000,000 
Union Pacific Railroad stock at not less than 50 of the par value, 247 ; committee 
to adjust accounts, 247 ; resolutions of the seven trustees, 247 ; all stock subscribed 
for, 247 ; abandoned stock, 247 ; shares reduced to $100 each, 247 ; books kept 
open until 1869, 248 ; subscriptions, where made, 248 ; public notice inviting sub- 
scriptions, 248 ; on stock subscribed in 1866 and 1867 only 10 per cent, was 
paid, 248 ; first subscription by the Credit Mobilier, 248 ; indebtedness of the 
Union Pacific Railroad Company for construction under the Hoxie contract, 248 : 
stock only represented when issued, 249 ; only paid stock voted in the government 
of the company, 249 ; stock paid for by the indebtedness of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road to the contractors, 249 ; subscription of 50,000 shares of the stock of the Union 
Pacific Railroad by John A. Rice, 249; authority by which the Rice subscription 
was made,' 249 ; how the subscriptions made by Mr. Rice was paid, 249 ; entries in 
the ledger of the trustees, 249 ; stock issued under contract, $1 per share, 250 ; 
paid cash for building the road and took stock from company, 250 ; stock not con- 
sidered an equivalent to so much cash, 250 ; Credit Mobilier actually paid cash, 
250 ; Union Pacific Railroad Company considered stock equivalent to cash, 250 ; 
contractors paid in cash, bonds of the company, and Government bonds, 250 ; 
value of the stock, 250 ; mode of payment by checks, 250 ; understanding at the 
time of making the Oakes Ames contract, 251 ; expectation in regard to aid, 251 ; 
partnership between Oakes and Oliver Ames, 251 ; Hoxie contract, 251 ; profits on 
Hoxie contract shared by the stockholders of Credit Mobilier, 251 ; Ames paid for 
road already built, 251 ; the character of the route and the existence of the Evans 
pass, 252 ; location of the road, 253 ; trustees actually pay $30,000 per mile in con- 
struction, but their contract with the Union Pacific Railroad gives them $96,000, 
253 ; Credit Mobilier, how paid, 253 ; over one hundred miles completed and in- 
cluded in the Ames contract, 253 and 254 ; Ames's profit on the work, 254 ; road 
let upon engineer's estimates, 254 ; route adopted after the Oakes Ames contract, 
255 ; opinion as to price at which the Oakes Ames contract was let, 255 ; Hoxie a 
man of no means, 256 ; stockholders in Credit Mobilier in 1865, 256 ; dividends, 
how divided, 256; affirmance of Mr. Alley's testimony, 256 and 257 ; stockholders 
in the Credit Mobilier interested in the Ames contract, 257 ; existence of the board 
of trustees, 258; one hundred and thirty-eight miles of completed road included in 
the Ames contract, 257 ; dividends, how divided, 258 ; route, 258 ; cost of the one 
hundred and thirty-eight miles of completed road included in the Ames contract, 
258 ; Government commissioners examine the road, 258 and 259 ; the money 
derived under the Ames contract for the one hundred and thirty-eight miles of 
completed road divided among the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier before 
Ames commenced work on the road, 259 and 260 ; special legal expenses, including 
the $126,000, 260, 261, 262, 283, 264, and 265 ; release of Oakes Ames from his con- 
tract, 266 ; stock held by Oakes Ames and his brother, 266 and '267 ; note for 
$2,000,000, dated August 4, 1869, due Credit Mobilier on account, 267, 268, 269, and 
270; Credit Mobilier on account of agreement for contract claims, $1,104,000, 
being money advanced by the Credit Mobilier to the Union Pacific Railroad, 271 ; 
dividends declared by the trustees, 271 and 272 ; proxies, by whom given, 272 ; 
Ames and Davis contracts, 272 and. 273 ; statement of cost of road west of one 
hundredth meridian, per mile, built when the Oakes Ames contract was made, 273, 
274, 275, and 276 ; value of stock at the time of making the Ames contract, 276 ; 
number of miles embraced in the Ames contract, 277 ; in letting the Ames contract 
the prices of the lettings were fixed with reference to the value of the stock, 276 
and 277 ; stock issued to the contractors or the seven trustees, 277 ; resolution of 
Mr. Bushuell in relation to the item of $1,104,000, 278 ; under the Ames contract 
the Credit Mobilier was to advance money, 278 ; stock of Credit Mobilier held in 
trust by Oakes Ames, 278 and 279 ; stock to be disposed of among Congressmen, 
280 and 281 ; dividend 12th December, 1867, 281, 282, and 283 ; resolution offered 



772 INDEX. 

AMES, OLIVEE— Continued. 

by Mr. Lambert in relation to the Hoxie contract, 283 and 234 ; Boomer contract, 
285 ; responsibility of contractors, 285 ; bribe given to a Government commissioner, 
287, 288, 289, and 290 ; trustees receive money on their contracts, 286 ; stock wanted 
to control the road, 291 ; advice of counsel in regard to the issue of stock, 292 ; 
money paid to General B. F. Butler, 293 ; report of John J. Cisco relating to legal 
expenses, 295, 296, 297, 298, and 299; suspense account, 300 and 301 ; money paid to 
Hon. Thad. Stevens, 302 and 303. 

ATKINS, ELISHA, testimony of: 

Stockholder in the Credit Mobilier, 303; director Union Pacific Railroad Company, 
303 ; I hold in my possession the note for $2,000,000, 304 ; the circumstances under 
whioh the $2,000,000 note was given stated, 304; copy of the note, 304 ; the note 
never was used, 304 ; the note was given as collateral security for the parties 
signing the bond, and for no other purpose, 304 ; a member of the finance commit- 
tee, 305 ; the $126,000 for legal expenses, 305 ; suppose the $126,000 was spent 
legitimately, 306 ; the $50,000 for special legal expenses, 306 ; the $50,000 paid out 
under the direction of the president of the company, 306 ; reason for holding the 
$2,000,000 note stated, 306; names of the parties who signed the bond for which 
the $2,000,000 note was given as collateral, 306. 

B. 

BUSHNELL, COKNELIUS S., testimony of: 

Eolation sustained to the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, p. 38 ; first directors 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company, 38 ; history of the transactions of the company, 
38 ; how the construction of the road was commenced, 39 ; surveys made before 
the Hoxie contract, 39; rate at which the contract was let to Hoxie, 39; extension 
of the Hoxie contract, 39 ; there was only one letting' made to Hoxie, 39 ; assign- 
ment of the Hoxie contract to the Credit Mobilier, 40 ; Hoxie to be paid in securi- 
ties in the road. 40 ; amount received from the Government, with statement of Mr. 
Bushnell, 40 ; bonds given to the new stockholders to enlarge the stock of the 
Credit Mobilier, 40, 41; paying money to the Credit Mobilier secured bonds in the 
Union Pacific Eailroad Company, 41 ; ten millio'ns of bonds sold at 95, 42 ; the 
bonds were sold by the treasurer of the Union Pacific Eailroad Conrpany, 42 ; 
Black Hills line adopted in the spring of 1867, 43; the cost of building less than 
at first anticipated, 43 ; Ames contract let on actual surveys and location by the 
engineer, 43 ; reports of engineers, how made, 43 ; the residue of the construction 
to the western terminus was by Davis, 44 ; description of the road over the Eocky 
Mountains, 45 ; the road was completed on the 10th of May, 1869, 45 ; the Pacific 
Eoad meets promptly the interest on its bonds, 46 ; the average price of stock last 
year was 38, 47 ; the highest price paid for stock, 45£ to 45f, 47 ; stock sold as low 
as $9 per share, 47 ; land-grant bonds outstanding upon unsold land, 48 ; cost of 
road, 48 and 49 ; mineral products from Salt Lake, 49 ; annual earnings of the 
road, 49; what the Government has saved by the road, 50 ; the engineer in charge 
representing Mr. Ames was Mr. Eeed, 50 ; the Credit Mobilier had nothing to do 
with the construction of the road; it was done by the seven trustees, 50 ; esti- 
mates were only submitted to the trustees, 51 ; reports of the engineers, how and 
where kept, 51 ; average gross earnings of the road yearly, 52 ; effect upon th© 
Union Pacific of the completion of the Northern and Southern Pacific Eailroads, 
52 ; amount of bonds issued by the Union Pacific Eailroad, 53 ; contracts, by 
whom drawn, 53; names of the attorneys employed by the Union Pacific Com- 
pany, 54 ; General Butler paid counsel fee, 55 ; no money paid to elect Harlan or 
any other Senator, 55 ; money contributed to aid in elections, 56, 57, 58 ; stock 
sold to members of Congress, 58, 59 ; stock guaranteed to subscribers, 59 ; when 
the stock subscribed for by Congressmen was paid, 60, 61 ; I was present at the meet- 
ing of the board of directors of the Union Pacific Eailroad on the 9th of March, 
1871, 528; I was one of the committee to investigate the account for $126,000, 528 ; 
no vouchers were presented, it was based on a statement of my own, 529; state- 
ment of Bushnell in relation to the $126,000, 529,530; I gave Colonel Scott the 
$19,000 check, 531 ; I borrowed money from Ordway,531 ; the persons to whom the 
$126,000 was paid, 532,533; I was not aware that I was on the committee, 534; 
the $19,000 check was not given to Mr. Wilson, I received it and paid it over to 
Colonel Scott, 535 ; the first bridge-bonds issued were in the latter part of the year 
1870, 536 ; the money raised on the bonds was seven or eight hundred thousand 
dollars, 536; I got the accommodation from the 28th to the 30th of December, 1870, 
536; the bridge-bonds were issued under the general authority in the charter, 537; 
the bonds were secured by a mortgage or a trust deed, 537 ; the bonds were 
pledged as collaterals for a' loan in New York, 537 ; two million five hundred thou- 
sand dollars in bridge-bonds, two million one hundred and thirty-six thousand doi- 



INDEX. 773 

BUSHNELL, CORNELIUS S.— Continued. 

lars in land-grant bonds, 537 ; the amount of the $126,000 paid to General Dodge, 537, 
538 ; Mr. Williams and Mr. Spence had their desks in the same room, 539 ; I gave 
Mr. Dodge the check on the day of the transaction, 539 ; I bought the first issue of 
the Omaha bridge bonds from the Union Pacific Railroad Company, 540 ; purchase 
was made before the passage of the act authorizing the bridge to be mortgaged, 540 ; 
the reason why the Union Pacific Railroad gave the bonus of $126,000, 540 ; I think 
I ought to have had more, 540 ; I sent agents abroad to dispose of those bonds, 541 ; 
resolution of Bushnell to pay over to the Credit Mobilier the sum of $1,104,000 to 
make the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad full paid, 541 ; Mr. Durant was de- 
termined that the contract should not be made unless the assent of the stockhold- 
ers was obtained, 542; General Dix's stock was paid for by Durant, 542; General 
Dix got $50,000 for his shares, 542 ; the Credit Mobilier paid General Dix cash for . 
his shares, 542 ; the stock never sold at par in the market, 542 ; I thought'General 
Dix's stock was worth 75 or 80, 542 ; there was a combination of reasons why 
General Dix was paid par for his stock, 543 ; I saw a letter in the hands of Mr. 
Barlow, purporting to have been written by General Dix, 543; we were led to 
believe from that letter, and from remarks of Mr. Barlow, that it was advisable to 
buy that stock, 543 ; I don't like to decry the securities of the Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company, I had always great faith in them, 543 ; Mr. Cisco was treasurer at 
the time the first mortgage-bonds were issued, 543 ; the letter of General Dix to 
Mr. Barlow was to the effect that Mr. Barlow had authority to settle the matter, 
544 ; I think the letter was in a complaining spirit, 544 ; it is barely possible that 
the stock was voted to General Dix by the company, 544 ; large amouuts were 
paid to trustees for signing the bonds, 545 ; General Dix was president of the road 
from 1864 until he went to Europe, in 1868, 545; I charged $10,000 a year for my 
services, 545 ; I think General Dix knew of everything that was going on, and he 
didn't see anything wrong, 546; General Dix remained president after he went to 
Europe, 546 ; the only contract the Union Paciiic Railroad Company ever had with 
the Credit Mobilier was under the direction of and executed by General Dix, 546 ; 
under that contract there was a dividend of 12 per cent., 546 ; General Dix was 
president at the time the understanding about the Ames contract was had, 546 ; 
the profits under the Ames contract would have been less than $11,000,000 on an 
outlay of over $90,000,000, 547 ; I got for my Union Pacific stock from 30 down to 
20, 547 ; Mr. Oliver Ames was president pro tern, during the year 1867, 547 ; I think 

r it was understood by the New York interests that General Dix was to continue 
president until he returned from Europe, 548 ; extract from a report made by J. L. 
Williams, Government director Union Pacific Railroad, 550 ; I understand that 
every year the lobby has levied blackmail upon the Union Pacific Railroad, 551 ; 
I have not come to Congress to wash my dirty linen, 552; the $50,000 paid to Ful- 
lerton was blackmail, 552 ; we didn't make as much as we thought, and I do not 
think as much as we ought, on an expenditure of $90,000,000, 553 ; on the original 
subscription, 10 per cent, was paid, but those payments were made by check, 554 ; 
the next payment was made by the Credit Mobilier, 554 ; the amounts and pay- 
ments paid into the treasury of the Union Pacific Railroad, 554 ; the Credit Mobi- 
lier took an assignment of the Hoxie contract, 554 ; there may have been a few in- 
dividual stockholders who paid on small amounts up to 55 per cent., 555 ; names 
of counsel who gave opinions, 556. 

BARNES, OLIVER W., testimony of: 

Secretary of the Credit Mobilier, p. 138 ; stockholder in Credit Mobilier, 138 ; divi- 
dends paid on stack, 138 ; received a larger amount of Union Pacific Railroad stock 
than the entire amount of cash paid in to the Credit Mobilier, 139 ; reports, how 
made, what they consisted of, and in whose custody retained, 139 ; negotiation 
for the charter of the Credit Mobilier, by whom made, 140 ; the first installment 
©f 2-£ or 5 per cent, paid in, 140 ; dispute between the two boards, how settled, 141 ; 
the Credit Mobilier agreed to procure and give to its stockholders stock of the 
Union Pacific Railroad at a large discount, i42 ; there was no written or printed 
statement, and the business of the trustees was done without publicity, 142 ; stock 
issued directly to the person, 143 ; number of shares of Union Pacific Railroad 
stock received on forty shares of Credit Mobilier, 143 ; certificate, 144 ; fiscal 
agency meeting, 145 ; certificate of proceedings at second subscription, made 29th 
May, 1863, 146 ; Mr. Durant purchased control of the fiscal agency 3d March, 1864, 
147 ; Credit Mobilier organization kept up in Philadelphia, business done in New 
York, ^ 148 ; railway bureau, 148 ; average amount of stock subscribed to the Penn- 
sylvania fiscal agency, 149 ; money paid to members of Congress, 149, 150 ; moneys 
paid to commissioners, 151 ; stock placed in hands of Mr. Ames for distribution, 151, 
152; Credit Mobilier, its source of revenue, 152 ; proxies given to the executive 
committee Credit Mobilier, 153 ; offices of the two companies held in the same place, 



774 INDEX. 

BARNES, OLIVER W.— Continued. 

153 ; resolution to equalize the date of payment to increase stock subscriptions, 
154 ; report of the treasurer to the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier, 154 ; list of 
stockholders of Credit Mobilier, May 18, 1886, 155 ; stock-list of the Credit Mobilier 
of America, May 17, 1867, 156 ; list of stockholders of the Credit Mobilier, May 16, 
1868, 157 ; subscription-list to the Credit Mobilier, 159 ; increase of railway 
bureau, 160. 

BONDS. 

United States 6 per cent. 30-year bonds, 615 ; United States 6 per cent. 30-year bonds 
on hand, 616 ; United States 6 per cent. 30-year currency -bonds, 618 ; first-mortgage 
bonds, 619 ; Union Pacific Railroad bonds, 611 ; land-grant bonds, 624, 626, 627 ; 
income-bonds, 611, 627 ; income-bonds and stock sold by trustees, 634 ; bonds sold 
by trustees, 633; bonds of all classes, 639; balance-sheet, Ames contract, 633; 
balance-sheet, Davis contract, 633. 

BUTLER, Hon. B. F., testimony of: 

Letter from John B. Alley to General Butler, 883 ; General Butler's statement in re- 
gard to his connection with the Union Pacific Railroad, 683. 

C. 

CLARK, HORACE F., testimony of : 
President of the Union Pacific Railroad, p. 394; elected president 6th of March, 1872; 
never was connected with the Credit Mobilier, 394 ; made report to the Secretary 
of the Interior 12th September, 1872 ; I only know the cost of the road from book- 
account, 394 ; the items that go to make up the capital stock of the company, 394 ; 
what the company owns, 395 ; the floating debt, in round numbers, is $2,000,000, 395 ; 
in the floating debt we do not embrace "arrearages of interest due to the Govern- 
ment, 395 ; the floating debt is wholly in notes, 395 ; gross and net earnings of the 
road, 398 ; a detailed statement of the earnings, 39£; if the Government withheld 
the money, and there should be a snow-blockade, I think the result would be 
disastrous to the road, 397 ; the weight of the iron per yard is 58 pounds, 397 ; no 
fund has been set apart for renewing the iron, 397 ; it is not customary for rail- 
roads to put aside a sinking-fund, 398 ; I think it will be necessary to expend this 
year half a million of dollars for relaying the track, 398 ; the cost for relaying is 
to be deducted from the gross earnings, 398 ; I have not had the practical manage- 
ment of any road, 399 ; have given attention to railroads, 399 ; unfriendly relations 
between railroads and the State or Federal Government would, affect its prosperity, 
400 ; I think there is no traffic that requires any very large expenditure, except 
for the maintenance of the track, 401 ; there have been "accommodation transac- 
tions "with the company since my administration, 402; those who have loaned 
the company money are secured by collaterals, 402 ; the stock, instead of being 
estimated at 100 cents to the dollar, was estimated at 30 cents, 403 ; coal was dis- 
covered while the road was in course of construction, 404 ; rumors about coal, 405 ; 
at the time of the Ames contract, I think the belief was quite universal that coal 
deposits accessible would be found, 405; where the first indications of coal 
appeared, 406 ; copy from Durant's report, 406 ; reports relating to coal, 407, 408 ; 
Evans Pass, 408 ; the general route of the road was understood before the Ames 
contract, 409 ; copy from the report of Mr. Dodge, 409 ; became a stockholder 
after the 1st of January, 1872, 410; not a cent used to carry elections, 410; 
an amount equivalent to the capital stock is sold over many times in the course of 
a year, 410 ; communications were sent to me, saying that there was danger of bills 
being introduced that would injure the road, 410; copies of communications and 
answers, 411, 412, 413, 414, 415; resolution for the issuing of sixteen millions of new 
bonds, 416 ; the bonds are being engraved, 416 ; the sales of the stock of the Union 
Pacific Railroad Company have been very large during the past year, 417 ; before 
electing officers we give notice in advance, keep the books open to a certain day, 
to permit transfers, then we close the books, 418; Hon. S. Shellabarger propounded 
to the witness a series of questions elating to the Ames and other contracts, 
which are fullv answered on 418, 419, 420, 421, 422, 423, 424, 425 ; answers to in- 
terrogatories propounded by Hon. G. F. Hoar, 425, 426, 427, 428, 429, 430, 432, 
433, 434, 435 ; salaries paid the presidents of the road, 436 ; General Dix rendered 
service, some service, while in France, 436 ; the sum paid General Dix $50,000. 
436 ; after General Dix left the road he received $50,000, 437, 438 ; the Wyoming 
coal contract, 438, 439; there is no such thing as a perfectly finished road, 440; 
the outlays for repairs will come out of the net earnings, 440, 441 ; amount of 
the assets of the company hypothecated, 441, 442; we have no floating debt, 
except the. $2,000,000, 442; I do not think the company could pay the floating 



'INDEX. 775 

CLARKE, HORACE P.— Continued. 

debt and maintain itself, 442 ; I do not mean to say that the Government had 
withheld the whole of the land, 442 ; we hare sold about 2,900 ; 0Q0 acres of land, 
44.3 ; if the Government withholds the money due on transportation, somebody 
has to fill up the gap ; I do not know who will do it, 443 ; we have resident 
engineers on the line of the road, 443 ; I have treated the $2,000,000 note as a 
nullity, 444 ; report made by Mr. Sherman, 444; I do not see the relation of the 
note to the resolution, 444, 445; I should think 48-pound iron would be light, 448 ; 
' the Wyoming Coal Company complains of bad treatment, 447 ; I say that the re- 
cords of the company show that the road cost $114,000,000, 448 ; I do not know of 
any unfriendly action on the part of Congress; I spoke of departmental action, 448 ; 
Mr. Wendell, Government commissioner, received $25,000,449; I think the Gov- 
ernment was prompt and liberal in the issuing of bonds, 449 ; by raids upon the 
stock I meant, for instance, the witholding of money by the Treasury Department, 
449 ; the next raid is the one that re-opens again this question of withholding the 
money, 450 ; the Omaha bridge, 451 ; the earnings of the bridge, 451 ; Mr. 
Cowlan, who addressed to me all the communications which are before the com- 
mittee, was a stranger to me, 452, 453 ; it is impossible to ascertain the number of 
shares of a speculative stock, 454; I bought a large amount of stock at prices 
varying from 30 to 35, 454 ; I made oath to the report that was filed with the Sec- 
retary of the Interior, 455 ; the Government treated us with great liberality, 455 ; 
we have received bonds for the entire road, 455 ; we have not paid to the Govern- 
ment the 5 per cent.,« 456 ; the outstanding debt under the land-mortgage bonds in 
November was $8,948,000. The lands of the company remaining unsold amount to 
11,430,948 i-q-q acres, 456 ; we have got on hand notes for land sold, not counting 
interest, to the amount of $1,377,233.27, 456 ; we have sold 64.9,000 acres to actual 
settlers, at an average per acre of $4.20, 457. 

COX, CHRISTOPHER C, testimony of: 
I was Commissioner of Pensions from August, 1838, to May or June, 1869, 574; I never 
owned or had any interest in any of the bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad, 574 ; 
I never had any income-bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad, 574 ; I owned, in 1870, 
for a few days, a few of what are called, I think, the third-mortgage or third-income 
bonds of the Eastern Division of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, the Kansas 
Road, 574; Hoover agreed to sell the bonds, 575; the amount of bonds proposed to 
be sold I think about $10,000, 575 ; I do not think that the profit amounted to oyer 
one or two hundred, 576 ; I never stated to Hoover that the bonds had been procured 
for aiding in the passage of legislation, 577; I bought the bonds entirely as a specu- 
lation, 577 ; Hoover's reputation is the worst possible. I do not think that there 
are three persons in the community who would indorse his character for anything 
that is proper and right, 578; I have the charity to believe Hoover insane, 578. 

COST of the Union Pacific Railroad to the Union Pacific Railroad Company, 636; cost 
of the Union Pacific Railroad, 637; cost of the Hoxie contract, 640; cost of whole 
road, 644. 

CONTRACTS. 

Hoxie contract, 180; Williams contract, 180; Ames contract, 181; Davis contract, 
181; Homan, jr., contract, 590: Godfrey & Wardell contract, 591; capital Credit 
Mobilier, 15, 377. 

CRANE, HENRY C, testimony of : 

Officer in the Credit Mobilier, p. 30 ; stockholder in the Credit Mobilier, 31 ; office of 
the Credit Mobilier kept at New York, 31 ; names of the officers of the Credit 
Mobilier at the time of the Ames contract, 31 ; dividends made to the Credit 
Mobilier, 31 ; number of dividends declared, 32 ; at the time of making the 
Ames contract was secretary of the Credit Mobilier, 32 ; Union Pacific Railroad 
Company in payment of the Ames contract paid cash, 33; trustees received payment 
from the Union Pacific Railroad in cash, 33; number of dividends and amount 
per cent., 34 ; capital stock of Credit Mobilier, 34 ; value of bonds and stocks, 35 
increase of Credit Mobilier stock, 35 ; additional stock issued to Mr. Neilson, 35 
dividend declared by the Credit Mobilier before the capital stock was increased, 36 
dividends on what amount of stock declared, with amount per cent, 36, 37, and 38 
there had been payments made on account of the contract of Boomer, charged to 
Gesner, 513 ; amount paid to Boomer $1,895,954.47, 513 ; the total cost of the Ames 
contract, 629 ; cost of the Davis contract, 629 ; whole cost to the company under 
the Ames and Davis contracts $42,914,774.61, 629 ; the first-mortgage bond-account 
is not a part of the construction, 629 ; the dividends made under the Ames con- 
tract amount to $20,437,500, 530 ; resolution of Bushnell to make an allotment of 



776 INDEX. 

CRANE, HENRY C— Continued. 

30 per cent., 630 ; extracts from the books of the company, 631 ; there were 
$5,811,000 income-bonds sold by the company to the trustees, at 60 cents, 681 ; 
"balance-sheet, Ames contract, 632 ; income-bonds and stock sold by trustees, 636. 

I>. 

DEY, PETER A., testimony ol : 

I was employed in September, 1862, to make a reconnaissance from the Missouri 
River to Salt Lake, and tell what I thought of the chances of building a road, 238, 
239 ; I was employed about the 1st of September, 1863, to make surveys, by Du- 
rant, 239 ; the Evans Pass was discovered in the fall of 1865 ; the grading is very 
light until you get to the Black Hills, 239 : no estimate made prior to my connection 
with the road, 240 ; my idea is that the estimates were large, 240 ; Mr. John E. 
Henry instructed me to make a large estimate, 240 ; said he got his instructions 
from Durant, 240 ; I think $30,000 per mile for construction, including equipments, 
would cover all expenses on the road between Omaha and the one hundreth meri- 
dian, 241 ; estimate for the second hundred miles, 241 ; made the second estimate 
on the first one hundred miles September or October, 1864 ; I resigned as chief 
engineer Union Pacific Railroad 30th December, 1864, 668 ; I examined the whole 
line from Salt Lake Valley to Omaha, 668 ; my estimate was that the road could 
be built in cash for $40,000,000, 669 ; my resignation was tendered because I ob- 
jected to being made an instrument to carry out the provisions of the Hoxie con- 
tract, 669 ; copy of Mr. Dey's letter of resignation, 669 ; resignation sent to General 
Dix, with copy of private letter from Dey to General Dix, 669 ; copy of reply sent 
by General Dix to Dey, 670, 671 ; my objections to the Hoxie contract were, that 
it was letting the work for $2,000,000 more than it ought to have been let, 671 ; 
my experience in railroad-building had been that in the early stages of a road 
it should not be burdened with debt, 671 ; from the terminus of the one hundred 
miles to the one hundredth meridian my figures were about $27,000 per mile, 672 ; 
I speak of cash when I speak of values, 673 ; j put on the prices that were ruling 
at that day, 674 ; the distance from the one hundredth meridian to the Black Hills 
about 270 miles, 674 ; no tunneling was necessary, 675 ; I never let a piece of work 
except on estimates, 675 ; instructions to increase estimate came through Durant, 
676. 

DICKEY, Hon. OLIVER J. : 

Statement of Mr. Dickey, in defense of Hon. Thaddeus Stevens,. 676. 

DILLON, SIDNEY, testimony oi : 

Land owned by the Credit Mobilier at Council Bluffs, Iowa, 497 ; there has been a good 
deal of discussion about the initial point, 497 ; property owned by the Credit Mobilier 
at Council Bluffs, Iowa, Columbus, Nebraska, and a claim against the Union Pacific 
Railroad for $2,000,000, is about all the present property of the Credit Mobilier, 497 ; 
value of the lands, 497 ; a claim against the Union Pacific Railroad, as long as their 
note has never gone to protest, must be considered good, 498 ; in round numbers, I 
think the property of the Credit Mobilier is $2,200,000, 493; we have got a note of 
hand, but they claim that it is not a valid note. 498 ; if the depot was established 
at Council Bluffs, the land would be worth $400,000, 499; the Credit Mobilier holds 
less than 2,000 shares of the Union Pacific Railroad stock, 499 ; president of the 
Credit Mobilier since May, 1867, 499 ; I knew nothing about the transactions going 
on around Washington, or anywhere else, 500; I remember that J. M. S. Williams 
made a proposition to build the road, 500-; the trustees got the stock and bonds 
which they divided up from the company, 502 ; there might have been an estimate 
made on the part which had been done by the Hoxie contract, 502 ; the highest grade 
on the road is ninety feet, 503 ; the contract was taken by Ames as an individual, 
503 ; I am one of the seven trustees, 504 ; the checks were used to pay subscriptions 
of stock, 504 ; the bonds were procured in the same way, 504; the accounts between 
the Union Pacific Railroad and the trustees is about even, 505 ; I think I allowed 
Davis three or five thousand dollars for the assignment of his contract, 505 ; I don't 
think it would be a fraud if there. w T as a small amount of work remaining to be 
done, 505 ; by getting the bonds a month or so sooner it would give us increased 
strength to "build the next thirty or forty miles, 506 ; statement made by the vice- 
president, Durant, 507 ; I think the Evans Pass was adopted as the route at the 
date of the Oakes Ames contract, 508 ; it was impracticable to let the work in small 
quantities, 509 ; I thought we were doiug justice to the Government, and that they 
had no right to complain, 510; T. C. Durant is a fast man, 510; I would not take a 
contract unless I thought I could make 20 per cent. 



index. 777 

DIRECTOES of the Union Pacific Railroad; from 1864 to 1872, 596 ; dividends, when 
made, and amount, 630 ; demand-note, 595 ; detailed statement of bills payable, 593. 

DIVIDENDS. 

Dividend payable January, 1868, 725 ; dividend payable January 3, 1868, 728 ; div- 
idend payable June, 1868, 731 : dividend payable July, 1868, 733. 

DUFF, JOHN, testimony of: 

Connected with the Union Pacific Railroad since 1366, as director, 478; stockholder 
since 1866, 478; I am vice-president of the company, 478; I subscribed for stock 
in the Credit Mobilier at the time it was organized, 478; I disposed of my Credit 
Mobilier stock three or four years ago, 478 ; there were two dividends made before 
I disposed of my stock, 478; I think I received bonds as a bonus at the time of 
the iucrease of the capital stock of the Credit Mobilier, 478; I know nothing about 
the $126,000 but what I have heard since this investigation commenced, 479; I was 
on the committee, 479; I came to Washington to see what Congress was going to 
do in reference to this order of Mr. Boutwell, 479; I declined to act on the com- 
mittee because I knew nothing about it, 479 ; I did not know of legal expenses at 
Washington, 480; reasons why Mr, Duff refused to serve on the committee ap- 
pointed to investigate the account of $126,000, 480. 481 ; I know nothing about the 
$126,000, except that it was paid, 481 ; I was in Washington a day or two at the 
time of the passage of the legislation of 1864, 481 ; I came to Washington at the 
request of Mr. Ames, 481 ; my purpose in coming to Washington was to know 
what Congress was doing, 481; General Dodge told me that the Government trans- 
portation would be paid as usual, 482; the duties of the vice-president are not 
defined, except to act in the absence of the president, 482; it has been the practice 
of a good many directors to refuse to act on committees, 483 ; I understood that the 
committee was to act on legal expenses, 483; I am now vice-president of the road, 
484; a large amount of the bonds are held abroad, 484; I know nothing about the 
suspense account except the reports made by the different committees, 485; resolu- 
tion offered by Durant to loan the funds of the trustees, 486; resolution offered by 
Durant to authorize the treasurer to subscribe $1,500,000 to the stock of the Union 
Pacific Railroad, 487 ; resolution of Bates that, in accordance with the provisions 
of the trust, a dividend of 60 per cent, in cash, and 40 per cent, in stock of the 
Union Pacific Railroad, be paid to the holders of the stock of the Credit Mobilier, 
487; resolution of Bushnell that the treasurer make demand on the Credit Mobilier 
for an advance of $2,000,000, 487; resolution of Bushnell offered that the treasurer , be 
authorized and directed to subscribe for $2,500,000 of stock of the Union Pacific 
Railroad, 487 ; resolution of Bushnell that the treasurer be authorized to purchase 
$2,500,000 first-mortgage bonds Union Pacific Railroad, 487 ; resolution of Bushnell 
that an allotment of 20 per cent, in cash be made to the parties interested in tlio 
trust, 487 ; the check was taken for the work done, and the check was paid back 
for the stock, 488 ; at the time of letting the Ames contract I was a director in the 
Union Pacific Railroad, 488; I was opposed to making the Ames contract, 488; par- 
ties who were not good railroad men, 489; it was stated at the time, of the Ames 
contract that there were about 138 miles completed, 489 ; I never knew the details 
of the Boomer contract, 490; the reason why the 138 miles was included in the 
Ames contract, 491 ; I am an experienced railroad man, 492 ; actual cost of the 
Ames contract, 494; I think Davis, for the assignment of his contract, made a 
demand for $2,000, 495; the initial point lies between two and three miles above 
the city of Omaha, 496. 

DURANT, THOMAS C, testimony of: 

Vice-president and director Union Pacific Railroad, 62 ; surveys commenced in 1863, 
62 ; last survey made in 1869, 62 ; last location made in 1868, 62 ; estimates made 
on several parts of the road as they were located, 62 ; cannot tell what disposition 
was made of the estimates, 63 ; first contract made for the construction of the 
road, 63 ; amount of money expended by the company for construction and equip- 
ment, 63 ; the Union Pacific Railroad Company ceased to construct the road, 63 ; 
Hoxie's contract, 63, 64; transfer of the Hoxie contract, 64 ; the Credit Mobilier 
had the right to take charge and construct the road, 64 ; the Credit Mobilier did 
take charge of the work, 64 ; in closing up the Hoxie contract the Credit Mobilier 
made the settlement with the Union Pacific Railroad, 64 ; excess paid by the Union 
Pacific Railroad, 65 ; the work on the Hoxie contract completed on the 5th of Oc- 
tober, 1866 ; the whole length was 247^% miles, 65 ; officers at time of making the 
Hoxie contract, 65 ; board of managers, 65 ; officers of both companies, 65 ; direct- 

, ors of the Union Pacific Railroad directors of the Credit Mobilier, 66 ; the contract 
for building the road, after the Hoxie contract — with whom made, 66; the price per 
mile under the Boomer contract, 66 ; Boomer contract made on the 10th of Novem- 



778 INDEX. 

DUEANT, THOMAS C— Continued. 

ber, 1866, 6Q ; extension of the Hoxie contract, 67 ; Hoxie contract extended over 
the Boomer contract, 67 ; Boomer contract never approved by the board, 67 ; res- 
olution extending the Hoxie contract, 67 >; cost of the road over which the Hoxie 
contract was extended, 67 ; protest entered, also injunction obtained by Durant, 
68 ; copy of protest, 68 ; relative positions of the two corporations had changed at 
that time, 68 ; resolution offered by Mr. Bushnell rescinding the extension of the 
Hoxie contract, 68 ; engineer under the Boomer contract, 69; resident engineer's 
reports not indorsed by chief engineer, 69 ; reports afterward approved, 69 ; rate 
to be paid by the Union Pacific Eailroad Company under the Hoxie contract, 69 ; 
actual cost of the fifty-eight miles, 70 ; Williams contract, with copy of proposition, 
70; resolution accepting the Williams proposition, 70; copy of Durant's protest, 70, 71; 
the protest stated facts, 71 ; Williams's assignment of contract to the Credit Mobilier, 
71 ; don't recollect whether advertisement for bids to the public at large was given, 71 ; 
proxies were given by stockholders of the Credit Mobilier, who were stockholders in 
the Union Pacific Eailroad, 72 ; per cent, of stock in the Union Pacific Eailroad owned 
by stockholders in the Credit Mobilier, 72 ; Credit Mobilier assets, 72 ; the reason 
why a board of trustees wasj formed, 72, 73 ; the trustees held the profits in trust 
under the Oakes Ames contract for all the stockholders of the Union Pacific Eail- 
road, 73 ; dividends, how divided, 73 ; although no proxy was given, the stock- 
holders received profits, 73,74; at the time the Oakes Ames contract was made the 
Credit Mobilier did not own the stock, 74 ; securities could be sold after the Ames 
contract was made, 75; every member of the Credit Mobilier was liable for the 
performance of the contract, 75 : whenever the trustees wished to make a purchase 
they made the Union Pacific Eailroad Company an offer for a certain amount of 
securities, fixing the price, 75, 76; the company preferred to sell their own securi- 
ties, 76 ; the stock was always at par, 76 ; bonds sold to the trustees, 76 ; bonds 
only obtained by purchase, 76 ; the trustees had acquired entire control of the rail^ 
road, 77 ; power to vote on six-tenths of the stock, 77 ; amount of money distribu- 
ted to the stockholders of the Credit Mobilier in cash was $3,375,000 on the Ames 
contract, 77 ; amount of bonds distributed, 78 ; amount of Union Pacific Eailroad 
stock distributed in the aggregate, 78 ; the Davis contract was assigned to the 
trustees, 78 ; amount divided which was derived from the Ames contract, 78 ; noth- 
ing but stock, bonds, and money divided, 78; capital stock Credit Mobilier in- 
creased, 78 ; increased stock, how disposed of, 78, 79 ; stock held by Mrs. Anna 
Dodge, 79, 80 ; Davis contract, date when made and assigned, 81 ; Durant and 
Brooks come to Washington, 81 ; Simeon Johnson wanted payment for services, 
82 ; Mr. Brooks agreed to take Credit Mobilier stock, 82, 83, 84 ; value of Credit 
Mobilier stock January 5, 1867, and its advance, 84 ; first survey in the Eocky 
Mountains made in the fall of 1883, 85 ; surveys made from 1863 to 1867, 85 ; be- 
came acquainted with the general character of the country in 1863 or 1864, 85 ; 
preliminary surveys before the Oakes Ames contract was made, 85 ; the reports 
contained estimates of quantities, 86 ; duties of vice-president, 86 ; there was a 
committee appointed to receive propositions, 86 ; every stockholder of the original 
two and a half millions paid up in full on his stock, or the Credit Mobilier did, 87 ; 
whole amount of stock issued by the Union Pacific Eailroad, 87 ; amount sub- 
scribed for stock before 15th August, 1867, 87 ; only five or six millions of stock 
taken at the time of the Oakes Ames contract, 87 ; no agreement to take stock, 87 ; 
the contract with Oakes Ames guaranteed toithe company the funds to complete 
the road, 87 ; stock to be paid only in money, 88 ; the Credit Mobilier stock ad- 
vanced in price as soon as it was known that it had an interest in the Ames con- 
tract, 88; the details of the Ames contract left to the executive committee, 88; 
value of the Credit Mobilier stock, August 15, and October 1, about par or 95, 88 ; 
no understanding between Ames and the Union Pacific Eailroad about others 
sharing in the profits, 88 ; how long acquainted with Ames, 88 ; opinions as to Mr. 
Ames, 89; Mr. Ames would not have taken the contract without approximate esti- 
mate, 89 ; the Ames contract, estimates, &c, 90 ; Mr. Ames may have had copies of 
the estimates, 91 ; duties of the chief engineer, 91 ; duties of the Government 
directors, 91 ; after Mr. Ames transferred his contract, the Union Pacific Eailroad 
gave him a general release, 91 ; dividend of 12 per cent., 91 ; the Oakes Ames con- 
tract was made by Oakes Ames, on one side, and his brother Oliver on behalf of 
the company, 92 ; Oliver Ames was president of the company, 92 ; Oliver business 
partner of Oakes Ames, 92 ; the provision of the Ames contract, 92 ; stock had to 
be issued over and above the first-mortgage bonds and Government, 92 ; route 
adopted in 1863,92; the reason for adopting the new route, 92, 93 ; Durant fur- 
nished money to aid Mr. Harlan, 93-96; suit to recover stock from Oakes 
Ames, 96; stock assigned to Oakes Ames to enable him to fulfill his contracts, 
300 shares, 97 ; value of the stock held by Oakes Ames, 98 ; contractors are not in 
the habit of making reports to the public, 98 ; Oliver Ames has custody of the 
books which show the profits that were divided among the Credit Mobilier 



INDEX. 779 

-Continued. 

stockholders. 98; testimony relating thereto, 99; Mr. Jencks employed as an 
attorney, 99 ; General Butler employed as an attorney, 99 ; statement of tlie 
$10,000 paid to aid in Harlan's election, 100-102 ; suspense-account, 103 ; 
the 163,000 charged to the suspense-account, 103; money, on the general suspense- 
account were paid hy the treasurer, 104; J. B. Stewart got one or two hundred 
thousand dollars, and may he more, 105; Alexander Hay got seventy-five or 
one hundred or one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, 105; Stewart and 
Hay were in Washington ; I don't know what they were doing, 105-107 ; 
resolution appointing a committee to investigate the suspense-account, 108; 
checks sent to Harlan not emhraced in the suspense account, 109 ; Harlan checks, 
110 ; examination as to the suspense account, 111 ; vouchers given, 111 ; Stewart 
and Hay, 112 ; the point on the road at which the Ames contract commenced, 113 ; 
on the day the Ames contract was authorized there was 188 miles of the road con- 
structed, 113 ; the Ames contract was assigned to the Credit Mohilier on. the 16th 
October, 1867, 113 ; numher of miles completed west of the hundredth meridian, 
114 ; reason why the completed road was emhraced in the Ames contract, 114; ex- 
amination on same subject, continued, 115, 116 ; dividend declared on the 12th of 
December, 1867, 116; the capital stock of the Credit Mobilier, 116; the aggregate 
of the dividends declared on that occasion, 116 ; it was the understanding that the 
Davis contract was to be transferred to the board of trustees, 117 ; by the transfer 
of the Davis contract the effect was to extend the Ames contract over the uncom- 
pleted portion of the work, 117 ; resolution to inquire by what authority the check 
for §50,000 was paid, also, $11,000,000, and $3,000, 117; copy of protest filed by Mr, 
Durant, 118 ; the trustees had drawn money on the 667 before the Davis contract 
was made, 118 ; extension of the Ames contract, 118, 119 ; copy of a letter written 
by Oakes Ames addressed to H. S. McComb, 120 ; conditions of the Ames contract, 
120; I think $65,000,000 would have constructed and equipped the road, 121; Gov- 
ernment expenditures, 121 ; statement of earnings for eleven months in 1872, 121 ; 
value of the stock of the road, 122; Wyoming Coal Company, 122 ; first contract in 
regard to the Wyoming Coal Company, made in 1868, 122, 123; pay of Government 
directors, 124 ; Sioux City Construction Company, 124, 125 ; railway bureau, 125 ; 
executive committee created the railway bureau, 126; suspense-account items, 127 ; 
money paid to Stewart, 127, 128, 129 ; after 1886 or 1867 there were no numbers to 
the bonds, 129 ; character of the land-grant bonds, 129 ; the land-grant bonds were 
sold to anybody, 130 ; land-grant bonds issued in 1868, 130 ; laud not of much value, 
131; of what the railway bureau consisted, 131; the resolution relative to the 
land-grant bonds was adopted, May 12, 1864, 131; amount paid for the Fiscal 
Agency charter, 131, 132; the first time the two companies had anything to do 
with each other, 132 ; Ames's proposition and action of the board, 133 ; Credit 
Mobilier paid 30 per cent, on subscription, 133; the two corporations confounded, 
134; statement of Mr. Barnes inaccurate, 134!; copy of communication addressed by 
Mr. Durant to the board of directors'of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, 135; 
copy of the proposition of James W. Davis, to build and equip, 135 ; copy of agree- 
ment made with Davis, 136 ; copy of cost under Hoxie contract, 136 ; dividends 
and allotments as shown by the books, 136; total dividends and allotments, 136; 
statement of suspense account, 137; report of committee, 137 ; I never knew what 
became of the bonds after they went into Stewart's hands, 514 ; Stewart was in 
my employ, 514 ; money and bonds paid to J. B. Stewart, 516, 517, 518, 519 ; never 
had a transaction with Thaddeus Stevens, 522; copy of letter addressed by Durant 
to Ames, on the subject of the payment of the $25,000 to Wendell, 523; I did not 
authorize Snyder to make the payment to Wendell, 523 ; copy of letter addressed 
by Durant to the President of the United States in relation to the Government 
commissioners, 524: copy of a letter from Snyder to Durant in relation to the 
payment made to Wendell, 525. 

O. 

GILMAN, THOMAS P., testimony of: 

I think General G. M. Dodge deposited the check for $24,500, G49. 

II. 

HAM, BENJAMIN F., testimony of: 
Assistant secretary and treasurer, and also a director of the Credit Mobilier, 7 ; copy 
of the act to incorporate the Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency, 7 ; letters-patent signed 
by the governor of Pennsylvania, 8 ; an act to change the name of the Pennsylva- 
nia Fiscal Agency, 9 ; second amendment of charter, 9 ; the first meeting of the 
Credit Mobilier was on the 29th of May, 1863 ; names of the original stockholders 



780 INDEX. 

HAM, BENJAMIN F.— Continued. 

Credit Mobilier, 10 ; books of the Credit Mobilier lost, 10 ; stock subscribed for in 
the Credit Mobilier, 11 ; my son holds three shares Credit Mobilier stock, 11 ; 
amount paid on account of the three shares of stock, 11 ; dividends received, 
11 ; amount of Union Pacific Railroad stock received on three shares, 12 ; value 
of shares of Union Pacific Eailroad stock received, 12 ; first directors of the 
Credit Mobilier, 13 ; list of officers of the Credit Mobilier, 13, 14 ; the Credit 
Mobilier had charge of building the road to the hundredth meridian, 14; 
the Credit Mobilier paid on account of construction under the Hoxie contract 
$202,770, 14 ; the Credit Mobilier lost its money, 14 ; the Credit Mobilier lent 
money to the Union Pacific Eailroad, simply on book account, 14 ; only one 
dividend declared by the Credit Mobilier, 15 ; Credit Mobilier stock increased, 15 ; 
value of the Credit Mobilier stock in 1867, 16 ; stock was held at all sorts of ficti- 
tious prices, 16 ; Credit Mobilier interest in the Ames contract, 16 ; at one time 
auditor of the Union Pacific Eailroad Company, 16 ; was an officer of both corpora- 
tions, 17 ; where the lost papers were contained, 17 ; lost books, 18 ; cause of their 
disappearance, 18 ; dates when stock in the Credit Mobilier was taken, with names 
of subscribers, 19 ; the profits on the Ames contracts were paid directly to stock- 
• holders, 20 ; only $5 or $10 per share paid on the stock, 20 ; stock, how issued, 21 ; 
at the time of making the Oakes Ames contract, the Credit Mobilier substantially 
owned all the stock of the Union Pacific Eailroad, 21 ; of what the original stock 
consisted, 21 ; Union Pacific Eailroad stock, $36,000,000 ; auditor of the Union Pa- 
cific Eailroad, 371 ; the Hoxie contract cost $50,000 per mile, 371 ; the cost of the 
Hoxie contract, $14,290,835.90, 371 ; the $2,000,000 note referred to, 371 ; copies from 
the company's books showing items for cost of construction under the Hoxie con- 
tracts, 372, 373 ; what it cost the Credit Mobilier to build the road up to the 
one hundredth meridian, 373 ; copy of a letter written by Ham to Williams, 
374 ; the cost of the Oakes Ames contract has never been settled, 374 ; 
the Credit Mobilier paid to the Union Pacific Eailroad $1,111,670 and $4,000, 374; 
they paid it over in checks, 375 ; Credit Mobilier held 15,886 shares of 30 per cent, 
stock, 375; the $1,104,000 was paid over, by the trustees, to the Credit Mobilier, 
375 ; the contractor subscribed for 22,960 shares of stock, 375 ; a check is considered 
cash, 375 ; the charter prohibited anything being taken for stock except cash, 375, 
376 ; the amount paid on the Ames contract, 376 ; payments made on the Ames 
contract covered the whole extent of 667 miles, 377 ; Davis contract, 377 ; the 
amount of profit on the Hoxie contract, $6,272,232.91, 377 ; actual capital stock 
of the Credit Mobilier, 1st of January, 1867, 377 ; how the profits were disposed 
of, 377-382; the Credit Mobilier paid the Union Pacific Eailroad 85 for the 
bonds, 383, 384 ; other stock divided in the regular dividends, 384 ; dividend 
made, 385 ; present assets of the Credit Mobilier, 385 ; whole amount of stock 
issued by the Union Pacific Eailroad, $36,000,000, 386; how Eice paid for stock, 
387 ; two dividends of 6 per cent, 15 ; resolution of Mr. Bushnell, that the treas- 
urer pay over to the Credit Mobilier, in accordance with the provisions of the con- 
tract of Oakes Ames with the Union Pacific Eailroad, of August 16, 1867, the sum 
of $1,104,000, or a sufficient sum to enable them to make the stock of the Union 
Pacific Eailroad Company held by them full paid, 374 ; the Government bonds 
were sold at par, 636 ; the Ames contractors did not receive bonds, 636 ; state- 
ment of the cost of the Union Pacific Eailroad to the company, 636 ; statement of 
the actual cost of the Union Pacific Eailroad, 637 ; copy of a circular, 637 ; cost of 
the Hoxie contract, $12,974,416.24, 640; the above figures embrace the $1,994,769, 
640; cost of the Hoxie contract to the contractors, 640; the Credit Mobilier ad- 
vanced on the Ames contract, $576,697.01, 641 ; the profits made on the Ames and 
Davis contracts, how divided, 643 ; the aggregate profits made on the Ames and 
Davis contracts, 644 ; whole cost of the road, 644; well, it is the same thing, 
buying them or taking them upon a contract, 647. 

HAY, ALEXANDEE, testimony of: 

I have retired from business, 457; I was in Washington pending the legislation of 
1864, 457 ; received an order from Joseph B. Stewart on Durant to deliver me 230 
construction bonds, which I received, 458 ; other bonds received, 458 ; I deposited 
the bonds with the president of the Merchants' National Bank of this city, to the 
credit of J. B. Stewart, 459 ; $18,000 was placed to my credit, 459 ; I am very inti- 
mate with J. B. Stewart, 460 ; I had almost daily transactions with Stewart, 461 ; 
I had no special business here in 1864, 461 ; I took an interest in endeavoring to get 
a bill reported to Congress, 461 ; Stewart paid me handsomely for what I did do, 
462 ; he gave me $23,000, 462 ; I think there is a receipt for the 250 bonds in my 
trunk, 463; I was not a lawyer, 465. 



INDEX. 781 

IIOOVER, T. Z., testimony of: 

The only officer of the Government who received Union Pacific Railroad bonds, that 
I know, was C. C. Cox, 569 ; in the latter part of 1868, or 1869, Mr. Smith came to 
me, and wanted me to negotiate $500 of Union Pacific Railroad income-bonds, 569; 
Mr. Smith stated that Dr. Cox, who was then Commissioner of Pensions, was part 
owner, 569 ; the bonds were put into my hands by C. C. Cox and Mr. Smith — they 
were together, 569 ; I think I must have received from Cox and Smith in the neigh- 
borhood of $35,000 worth of bonds, 569 ; I think that all the money that proceeded 
from my hands into the hands of Mr. Cox was in the neighborhood of four or five 
thousand dollars, 570 ; I asked either Cox or Smith how it was that they had so 
many income-bonds, and he said, "It is through influence that we got possession 
• of those bonds," 570 ; he gave me to understand that it was for getting legislation 
tlirough Congress that 'he got those bonds, 570; Cox said we all float in the same 
boat, 570; Cox stated to me that Mr. Smith and he had joint oVnership, 570; I 
"was shown a receipt at a certain time purporting to be signed by a member of Con- 
gress, 571 ; Smith said it was Kelley, of Pennsylvania, 571 ; I was under complaint 
in this city, 572 ; I think they called it in that indictment obtaining money under 
false pretenses, 572. 

K. 

KELLEY, Hon. W. D., testimony of: 

I am happy to say, as I do under the solemnity of my oath, that I have never re- 
ceived, in way of compliment, or testimonial, or compensation, previous or subse- 
quent thereto, directly or indirectly, any consideration for the course of legislation 
I have followed, either in speech or vote, 580 ; statement of Mr. Kelley, 580,581. 



LE BARNES, JOHN W., testimony of: 

I am acting deputy Sergeant-at-Arms, 681 ; I had a summons for John P. Randolph, 
and proceeded to New York, but after the most diligent search could not find any 
person answering to that name, except an old colored man, 681. 

LEGAL expense-account, 189-191. 

LIABILITY of the Union Pacific Railroad to certain persons, 595. 

m. 

MORGAN, EDWARD, testimony of : 

Drafts were drawn for account of C. S. Bushnell against laud-grant; bonds of the 

Union Pacific Railroad Company at 70 cents to the dollar, aud accrued interest ; 

the proceeds of the drafts went to Mr. Bushnell's account on our books, and he 

got the benefit of the*same, 648. 
MISSING books aud papers, 18. 

N. - 

NOTES due in March, 1873, 594 ; notes due in April, 1873, 594 ; notes due in May, 
1873, 594; notes due in July, 1873, 595; notes due in February, 1873, 595; notes 
due in December, 1872, 595. 



POPPLETON, A. J., testimony of: 

I have been the attorney of the Union Pacific Railroad since about the 1st of De- 
cember, 1863, 691 ; I am familiar with the management of the bridge, and the 
transportation over it between Omaha and Council Bluffs, 691 ; when the bridge 
was first opened a contract was made with one George W. Homans, for the transfer 
of freight and passengers over the bridge, 691 ; passengers going west change at 
the eastern end of the bridge, 692; general character of the country stated, 633. 

IS. 

EOLLINS, E. H., testimony of : 

Treasurer of the Union Pacific Railroad, 180 ; secretary in May, 1389; first contract 
made with Hoxie, 180 ; references with reference to entries on books of the com- 
pany, 180, 181 ; the amount paid under the Hoxie contract and charged to it was 



782 INDEX. 

ROLLINS, E. H.— Continued. 

$14,550,278.94, 182; payment of .$2,000,000, 182; consideration for which the 
$2,000,000 note was given, 182; additional charges on the Hoxie contract, 183 ; 
testimony relating to the $2,000,000 note, 183 ; an order to issue $16,000,000 addi- 
tional bonds, 183 ; copy of preamble and resolutions, 184, 185 ; the $2,000,000 note 
and additional bond issue, 185 ; collateral security for the redemption of the bonds, 
185 ; amount of bonds lost, 185 ; cost of the construction of the road covered by 
the Ames contract, 186; item charged to the Ames contract, 186 ; entry copied 
from the journal, 186; cost of the Davis contract, 187; copied from the books 
showing the cost of construction under the various contracts — Ames contract, 
Davis contract, and Hoxie contract, 187, 188; total cost of road to the 
4 Union Pacific Railroad Company, 188 ; amount of first-mortgage bonds issued 
by the Union Pacific Railroad Company, 188 ; ian£-grant bonds issued*, 188 ; 
the Union • Pacific Railroad Company does not owe the Credit Mobilier, 
188 ; the Credit Mobilier indebted to the Union Pacific Railroad, 188, 189 ; 
present board of directors Union Pacific Railroad, 189; the company owes 
money to its directors, 189 ; special legal expenses, 189 ; resolution appoint- 
ing a committee to audit legal expenses, 189, 190 ; testimony relating to legal ex- 
penses, including item of $126,000, 190,, 191, 192, 193 ; the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company contract with the Pullman Car Company, 193, 194 ; the Harlan $10,000 
legal-expense item of $126,000, and money to influence elections, 195 ; property 
belonging to the Union Pacific Railroad in the possession of the treasurer, 196 ; 
statement of assets, 197 ; loans in which the Union Pacific Railroad has an in- 
terest, 198, 199 ; net earnings for the last year $4,000,000, 199 ; the Government 5 
per cent, comes in when the road is completed, 200 ; claim against the Government 
for transportation, 200 ; gross and net earnings, 200, 201 ; statement of the indebt- 
edness of the Union Pacific Railroad, 210 ; statement of notes payable Decem- 
ber 10, 1872, 210 ; notes due in January, 211 ; notes due in February, 211 ; 
notes due in March, 212; notes due in April, 212; demand notes, 212; statement 
of all the current indebtedness of the company, 212 ; Omaha bridge bonds, 224 ; 
the earnings on the bridge are ample to pay the interest on the bonds, 213 ; in 
favor of the Government recognizing the road as completed, 213 ; amount required 
to complete the road, 214 ; land-grant bonds, 214 ; the average price per acre for 
which lands were sold, $4.25y i 3-n> 214 ; the road will need for the present the same 
assistance it had in the past, 214, 215 ; estimated time that rails will last, from seven 
• to ten years, 215 ; permanent counsel in the employ of the road, and salaries paid, 
216 ; examined with reference to the $126,000, 216, 217 ; special attorneys employed, 
218 ; corrected statement of Mr. Rollins, 219 ; the indenture under which the Omaha 
bridge bonds were issued bears date 1st day of November, A. D. 1870, 582 ; resolution 
in regard to the disposition made of the bridge bonds, 582 ; Mr. Bushnell received 
a part of the bonds, 583 ; after the act of Congress of Feuruary 24, 1871, a new bond 
was issued, bearing 8 per cent, interest, and the old issue was withdrawn, 583 ; 
the new bonds were sold to C. S. Bushnell, 583 ; the bonds were sold at about 80 ; 
the Union Pacific Company's books show that the company received $2,080,000 for 
them, 583 ; Bushnell arranged the loans in New York for the company, 583 ; 1,275 
bonds were delivered to the trustees of the Omaha bridge bond, 583; they were 
afterwards sent to London, and there sold, 583; A. E. T. Sickles was general super- 
intendent on the 21st of March, 1872, 584 ; the charges oh the Omaha bridge is 50 
cents for each passenger, and $10 a car for freight, 584 ; the same rates are charged 
for the transportation of Government freight, 584 ; there is a separate account 
kept at Omaha of the moneys received from the bridge, 584 ; the income bonds 
were issued pursuant to a resolution of the executive committee, adopted Sep- 
tember 23, 1869, 584; copy of the resolution, 584; disposition made of the income- 
bonds, 585 ; copy of the checks referred to in the testimony of Mr. Spence, 585 ; I 
indorsed all the checks as secretary, 586 ; amount paid Rollins and charged to legal 
expense account, 586 ; the services I rendered were in adjustment of accounts of 
the company and the Departments at Washington, and also with reference to mat- 
ters pending before Congress, 587 ; the company is receiving coal from the Wyoming 
Coal Company, since 1869, 587 ; the company pays 7 per cent, per annum and com- 
mission, 588 ; amount due John Duff and Oliver Ames, 589 ; executive committee res- 
olution in relation to stocks, bonds, and securities, 589; amount of collaterals placed 
in the hands of Mr. Clark, 589; all the securities of the company are held as collat- 
eral, 589; copy of telegram sent by Sickles to Rolling, 590 ; corrected statement of 
the bonds of the company, 590; copy of the agreement between Union Pacific Rail- 
road Company and George W. Homans, jr„ of Omaha, 590; copy of contract Union 
Pacific Railroad Company with C. O. Godfrey and Thomas Wardell, 591 ; detailed 
statement of bills payable, January 31, 1873,' 593; notes due in April, 1873, 594; 
notes due in May, 1873, 594; momoraudum showing the liability of the company 
to the persons named, 595 ; list of directors from 1869 to 1872, 596, 597, 598, 599 ; 
copy of list of stockholders used at the annual election, 1863, 599,600,601; list ot 



INDEX. 783 

ROLLLNS, E. H.— Continued. 

604; list of subscribers to the capital stock of the Union Pacific Railroad, 604; 
stockholders Union Pacific Railroad, and number of shares standing in their 
respective names at the closing of transfer-books, February 24, 1872, 601, 602, 603 , 
list of stockholders of the Union Pacific Railroad at the close of business, Feb- 
ruary 26, 1870, 605 ; list of subscribers to the capital stock Union Pacific Rail- 
road, 607 ; list of stockholders Union Pacific Railroad February 25, 1871, 607 ; list 
of subscribers to the capital stock Union Pacific Railroad, shares $1,000 each, 611 ; 
disposition made of income-bonds, 611 ; statement of income-bonds exchanged for 
certificates for first-mortgage bonds, 611 ; detailed statement of the persons who 
received the 8,263 land-grant bonds sold under resolution of April 9, 1869, 613 ; 
United States 6 per cent. 30-year bonds ; abstract from ledger, 615 ; abstract 
Ledger C, 616 ; abstract from Ledger A, 617 ; United States 6 per cent. 30-year 
currency bonds on hand; abstract Ledger B, 618; first-mortgage bonds, abstract 
Ledger A, 619, 620, 621 ; first-mortgage bonds ; abstract Ledger B, 622, 623 ; first- 
mortgage bonds, abstract Ledger C, 624 ; laud-grant bonds, 626 ; income-bonds, 
627 ; action taken by the board in relation to the disposition of the land-grant 
bonds, 638 ; amount realized by the company from each class of bonds issued and 
received, 639. 

RICE, JOHN A., testimony of : 
Stock issued in the name of Rice, 294 ; stock issued to B. E. Bates as treasurer of the 
trustees under the Ames and Davis contracts, 294 ; paid the money to the treasurer 
for the shares, 294 ; assistant treasurer of the trustees, 294 ; did not leave any money 
with the treasurer, 294 ; name signed for 120.000 shares of stock, amounting to 
$12,000,000,294. 

S. 

SCOTT, THOMAS A., testimony of: 
Was president of the Union Pacific Railroad from March, 1871, until March, 1872, 
649 ; I was at the meeting on the 9th of March; the committee heard Mr. BushnelFs 
claims, as stated by myself, and granted him the amount of $126,000, 650 ; Bush- 
nell gave me a check for $19,000 ; this check I deposited on my return to Philadel- 
phia, at the Girard bank, 651. 

SHAW, W. BIGLER, testimony of: 
Newspaper correspondent, 220 ; was aware of the steps taken by the Secretary of 
the Treasury, 220 ; ascertained the fact from the Secretary himself. 220 ; conver- 
sation between Boutwell and Shaw, 221 ; before the stock fell I unloaded, 221 ; I 
gave two hundred dollars to R. J. Hinton, 223 ; am always more or less dabbling 
in stocks, 223 ; brokers carried stock for me, 224 ; I do not think it is a part of 
the business of this committee to inquire into my private transactions, 224. I 
think Mr. Clews carried stock for me, 225. 

SHERMAN, CHARLES-T., testimony of: 

I was one of the Government directors, 651 ; the route mentioned in the Williams 
report was the one adopted, 651; the Black Hills route was fully known to the 
directors at the time of letting the Ames contract, 651 ; we condemned the Hoxie 
contract at the first meeting of the board in New York, 652; but afterward, when 
we discovered that the executive committee had extended the Hoxie contract 150 
miles farther, without submitting it to the board, and without communicating or 
reporting it to the board for nearly a year afterward, we did feel disposed to pro- 
test and take some action on the subject, but why we did not I cannot give the 
reasons now ; we felt outraged at the time, 652; the ground of objection was that 
tUe price was too large, too extravagant ; it was $50,000 a mile, but it should not 
have cost the half of that, 52; the price stated at which the Oakes Ames con- 
tract was let per mile, 653 ; I think the prices paid Ames were double what they 
should have been, 654 ; the Hoxie contract was extended while I was a director, 655 ; 
we knew that. the Hoxie contract had been assigned to the Credit Mobilier, of winch 
a large number of the directors were members, 655 ; by a report of June, 1865, we 
set out the Hoxie contract in full to the Secretary of the Interior, and stated our 
objections to it, after which we acquiesced in it, 656; I had a general knowledge 
that the capital stock w r as not subscribed, only just the minimum amount, 656; 
the Boomer contract I never saw, and I do not recollect the particulars of the 
Hoxie contract, 657 ; in 1864 our compensation was fixed at so much per day, 658 ; 
I cannot say that I have experience in railroad-building, 658; I think the profit 
was a good deal more than fifteen millions, 659; I should treat the Government 



784 INDEX. 

SHERMAN, CHARLES T.— Continued. 

"bonds and the first-mortgage bonds in the hands of the contractors as cash, 6(>0 ; 
land-grant bonds are a third-class security on the road, but a first-class security 
on the lands, 660; I think $40,000 a mile from Omaha to the terminus of the road 
would have been sufficient, 662 ; I think a profit of $18,000,000 is more than it 
should be, 662 ; the first-mortgage bonds were averaging over 80, 663 ; I have 
never been over the road, 664 ; I was a member of the committee to settle ac- 
counts, 695 ; I made no inquiries as to the validity of the Hoxie contract, 696. 

SMITH, E. J. testimony of: 
I know a man named T. Z. Hoover, 573 ; I intrusted him with bonds to negotiate, 
579 ; I cannot recollect the amount, but think I did not receive over a thousand 
dollars, 579; the reputation of Hoover is that he is a tnief, a liar, and a perjurer — 
that is the common repute, 580. 

SNYDER, WEBSTER, testimony of: 

I was general superintendent of the Union Pacific Railroad, 467 ; I think I paid all 
the Government commissioners, 367 ; paid Cornelius Wendell $25,000, 467 ; he de- 
clined to act without, 467-469 ; I think Dr. Dnrant opposed the pavment, 470-472, 
474, 475. 

SPENCE, BENJAMIN W., testimony of: 

I am an accountant, 344 ; was an employe of the Union Pacific Railroad Company : 
was assistant treasurer of the trustees under the Ames contract, 345 ; full state- 
ment in relation to the $126,000, 345 ; how and to whom the $126,000 was dis- 
tributed and paid, 345 ; amount of each check, 346-353 ; the $2,000,000 note 
was charged to the Hoxie contract, 354; the Credit Mobilier was indebted 
on the books of the Union Pacific Railroad Company, 354 ; the Hoxie con- 
tract stood debit on the books, $263,620, 355 ; Oakes Ames was debited with 
$1,748,739.95, 355 ; the entries show that the contractors on the Ames contract 
owed the company $1,748,739.94, 355: the books show a debit on the Davis contract 
of $23,548,547.54, 355; Credit Mobilier indebted to the Union Pacific Railroad, 
$816,285.01, 356; bonds sold, 356 ; bonds sold, income, land-grant, and bridge, to Mr. 
Bushnell, to the amount of $4,000,000 and $5,000,000, 356; subscription made by 
John A. Rice, 356-358; value of stock, 358; copy of a circular sent to the 
stockholders August 11, 1869, 358 ; second circular sent September 22, 1359, 359 ; 
what the stock of the Union Pacific Railroad realized in cash to the company, 
under the propositions stated in the circulars, 359 ; resolution of Mr. Duff relating 
to the interest, delays in location, and extraordinary expenses in building the 
road, 360 ; shortage on the bonds, 360 ; company ought to be in possession of the 
numbers of the missing bonds, 360; delivered the check to J. F. Wilson, on the 
9th of May, 1871, 361 ; left the employ of the Union Pacific Railroad in June, 1871, 
367 ; certificate of good character, 363 ; brought suit against the company, 363 ; I 
recovered two thousand two hundred and sixty-seven dollars from the company, 
369 ; banks named where checks were collected, 370 ; I made the figures that I 
might be able to explain, in case any of the directors asked questions in relation to 
the checks, 526 ; the Wilson check came back at the end of" the month, wheu the 
bank accounts came, 527 ; I did not give the check to Bushnell ; the $19,000 check 
went out of my hands to Mr. Wilson, 527. 

STATEMENT of assets of Union Pacific Railroad, 596; statement of Union Pacific 
Railroad bonds, 611; statement of the 8,263 land-grant bonds, 613; stockholders 
of Union Pacific Railroad, 599; stockholders February 24, 1872, 601; stockholders 
February 26, 1870, 605; subscribe to the $1,000 stock,"607; stockholders February 
25, 1871, 607; statement of those who received the 8,233 land-grant bonds, 613. 

STEWART, JOSEPH B., testimony of: 

General answer to interrogatory, 173 ; did all I could to procure the passage of the 
amendment of 1864, 174; took a pretty active part in getting up the amendment, 
174 ; addrsssed members of Congress through the press and personally, 174 ; . dis- 
claims being a lobby member, 174 ; for the last twenty years have had a great deal 
of business before Congress, 174 ; labored for the Pacific Railroad act of 1864, 175 ; 
for individual services was paid $30,000; received pay through Durant, 175; bonds 
received from Hallett and Durant, 175 ; Durant and Hallett paid me a large amount, 
to exceed $250,000, 176 ; decline to allow any inquiry into my clients' business, 
176 ; I object to the use of the language having traced into into my hands, 177 ; 
I have stated most distinctly that exceeding $250,000 of bonds passed through my 
hands, 177 ; never paid any of the bonds to an officer of the Government 177 ; I 






INDEX. 785 

STEWART, JOSEPH B.— Continued. 

got the bonds the latter part of June, 1864, 179; I am the author of the eleventh 
section of the act of 1864, 179 ; reported to Duraut how the money was spent, 179 ; 
refuse to answer, exclusively upon a sense of duty to my clients, 179 ; I stated that 
I had received $250,000 of bonds, 388 ; to the best of my recollection, I received 
something exceeding $100,000 of the bonds of the Union Pacific Railroad, 389 ; I 
have repeatedly stated, and I now again say, that I will make no statement about 
the business of my clients, 389 ; I refuse to speak about the busiuess of my clients, 
389; you need not give me another opportunity to answer that question, 389; 
questions propounded by the chairman to the witness, which he refused to answer, 
390-393. 

STOCK, how acquired, 327, 374, 375. 

V. 

VAN ZANDT, CHARLES C, testimony ot : 

I do not think I heard it stated that any of the money was used for corrupt pur- 
poses, 477. 



WILSON, JAMES F., testimony of: 

Government commissioner, 227 ; when appointed, 227 ; was in Washington during 
the legislation of 1871, 227 ; was a member of a special committee for the exam- 
ination of special legal accounts, 227 ; did not meet or act with the committee, 
227 ; reason why I refused to act with the committee, 227, 228 ; General Dodge al- 
ways insisted to me that there had been no money used improperly, 228 ; I had 
misgivings, based on public rumors, 229 ; if the money was used improperly I am 
glad I do not know it, 229, 230 ; I had an interest in the Credit Mobilier, 231 ; never 
examined the books of the Union Pacific Railroad, 231 ; since a member of the 
board have been opposed to their line of policy, 232 ; resolution of the 19th No- 
vember, 1869, referring to the Wyoming coal contract, 232-234; resolution of- 
fered by Mr. Bushnell, referring to the Wyoming Coal Company, 234 ; I always got 
more information in regard to the road at Omaha than I did at Boston, 235; have 
frequently protested against the action of the executive committee, 236 ; change 
of route from Sioux City, 236 ; I took a good deal of interest in the road, 237 ; I 
am quite certain the character of the route was not disclosed, if it had been discov- 
ered, 238; examination of Mr. Spence by Hon. J. F. Wilson, 361, 362; statement 
of Hon. J. F. Wilson to the committee, 362, 363 ; was in the office at the time the 
checks were given, 363 ; additional statement relating to the $126,000, 363-367. 

WILLIAMS, JOHN M. S., testimony of: 

Treasurer from March, 1869, to March, 1871, Union Pacific Railroad Company, 160 ; 
was elected a director, but never served, 161 ; was one of the original stockholders, 
161 ; I held stock to the amount of $20,000, 161 ; hold stock in the Credit Mobilier, 
161 ; myself and partner hold $125,000 Credit Mobilier shares, 161 ; took uo addi- 
tional stock, 161 ; I was a member of the executive committee, 161 ; motion of Mr. 
Duraut to establish a railway bureau, 162; proposition of Mr. Williams to build 
the road, 162; communication addressed by Mr. Williams to the railway bureau, 
163: Mr. Williams's proposition accepted, 163; I think a small portion of the road 
included in my bid was built, 163; I was trying to get the road in the right 
hands, 163; the Union Pacific Railroad Company and Credit Mobilier were iden- 
tical in interest, 163; we were building the road for ourselves, by ourselves, 
and among ourselves, 163 ; Mr. Duraut had entire control, and we proposed to 
get it out of his hauds, 163; the Credit Mobilier and the Union Pacific Railroad 
Company were the same people, 164; all the business of the executive com- 
mittee of the railway bureau was done by the Credit Mobilier' 164; 
the Union Pacific Railroad issued the. bonds, but could not sell them, 165 ; the 
dividends made by the trustees were divided among the stockholders of the Credit 
Mobilier, 165 ; the Williams contract was made in the interest of the Credit Mo- 
bilier 4 and was so stated on the records, 165 ; there was no provision made by the 
Credit Mobilier to report to Congress the actual cost of the road, 166 ; the return 
made to the Government was the cost of the contract, 166; it was in their capacity 
as stockholders in the Union Pacific Railroad that the division was made, 166; I 
do not think the Government was interested in it at all, 166; under the act of 
1862 the road could not be built, 167 ; I think we had a right to do with them 
(dividends) what we had a mind to; they were "our property; nobody else 
had any interest in them, 167; first-mortgage bonds and Union Pacific Railroad 

50 C M 



786 INDEX. 

WILLIAMS, JOHN M. S.— Continued. 

stock divided by the trustees, 167 and 168 ; I do not know the number of miles 
built, 168 ; signed the Oakes Ames contract some time after it was made, 168 ; 
if the stockholders had not consented to the contract, it might have been 
wrong, 169 ; I was in the railway bureau, connected with the management 
of the Credit Mobilier, and I was left out of it, 169 ; it was understood 
that the profits of the Ames contract were to be divided among the stock- 
holders, 169 ; I based my opinion that the stockholders would share in the 
profits of the Ames contract because it was a common understanding, and 
nobody would have a right to make a contract for common benefits, 170 ; we were 
acting together ; there was no wrong done to any one of us, 170 ; did the road cost 
the Union Pacific Railroad more than it did the Credit Mobilier ? I answer by say- 
ing " If your right-hand pocket had more money than your left, and you took some 
from the right and put in the left, you would be neither richer nor poorer, 170 ; 
the cost of the road was represented by bonds, stocks, and money, 171 ; General 
Butler was employed as counsel, 172 ; the stockholders had not assented to the 
Ames contract, 172 ; I remember there was a note for $2,000,000 given as a part of 
the balance due the Credit Mobilier, 201 ; it was an unascertained balance, sup- 
posed to be about §2,500,000, 201 ; the note was given to Elisha Atkins, 201 ; the 
Credit Mobilier were the contractors for building the first 247 miles of road, 202 ; 
the Union Pacific Railroad agreed to pay 2| per cent, for something, 202 ; the Hoxie 
contract was completed in 1867, 202 ; cannot explain why the $2,000,000 note was 
charged to the Hoxie contract, 202 ; was treasurer at the time the two-million note 
was given, 203 ; I was opposed to the Ames contract, 203; was a stockholder in 
the Credit Mobilier in 1869,203; the note was given as collateral to those who 
signed the bond in the Pennsylvania tax-suit, 203 ; all were interested in both cor- 
porations, 204 ; statement as to reasons for giving the note, 204 ; copy of letter 
from B. F. Ham to JVlr. Williams, 205 ; in 1867 was treasurer of the Union Pacific 
Railroad Company, 206 ; I paid the $126,000 to Mr. Dodge, 206-210. 






